Since there has been so much criticism of Theresa May in recent days (not least from me), it's only fair to point out that she is actually very good in getting a grip in this kind of crisis. She might not have been great in the public display of empathy immediately after the tragedy, but when it comes to actually getting things moving to deal with the problem, she's thorough and shows leadership.
Hopefuly she is now also getting over what must have been the hugely confidence-sapping shock of the election disaster.
Like Gordon Brown, Theresa May might have suffered from party advisers still in thrall to the previous prime minister. May should never have been sent to Grenfell Tower because she clearly is not comfortable emoting and sympathising as Cameron or Blair would have been. What the PM should have done is made the recent announcements on day one, from Downing Street -- with the details to be filled in later. It was always obvious there would be an investigation (or several) and that families would be rehoused, so there is no reason Theresa May could not have said so immediately.
Hopefuly she is now also getting over what must have been the hugely confidence-sapping shock of the election disaster.
Yes, she's had to work through her seven stages of grief over that very quickly, and come up with an entirely different way of working and operating.
She's not there yet (not by a long stretch) but she's starting to get a grip.
Listening to Theresa May today she does seem to be growing in confidence and if I did bet I would expect she may well still be in Office by March 2019 and maybe longer.
She seems to have taken over the fire tragedy in person and her dealing with the many facets of this could in the longer run improve her voter confidence
Hopefuly she is now also getting over what must have been the hugely confidence-sapping shock of the election disaster.
Yes, she's had to work through her seven stages of grief over that very quickly, and come up with an entirely different way of working and operating.
She's not there yet (not by a long stretch) but she's starting to get a grip.
I think the issue is that her character is well suited to chairing Cobra meetings and knocking civil-service heads together - talents which meant she was a good Home Secretary - but, for most of the time, being PM requires an altogether different set of skils. This is even more so when heading a minority government, which requires Wilsonian levels of wheeler-dealing and cajoling.
The ideal net immigration numbers reduce that top heaviness in the short-term, but allow population to plateau and perhaps edge down slowly once baby boomers die off in greater numbers. The sweet spot for current net immigration is 100-150k per year, but obviously that would vary as the demographics develop.
I've no idea what the right level of immigration is, but it is going to put a huge strain on national resources if our population hits 70 million next decade and is still rising at a similar rate. I don't think many politicians have grasped the scale of the issue, we need to build at least a Birmingham's worth of everything every couple of years just to stand still, if we want to make up the deficit that has accrued we might need to nearly double that.
Equally, though, having an ever greater number of old people supported by a diminishing number of people of working age creates huge - if different - strains.
To maintain the ratio between workers and retirees you need either:
- a TFR of about 2.4 (against 1.8 today) - and that only stabilises the ratio in about 2060, and at a much worse level than today - the retirment age increasing by four and a half months a year or - immigration of people of working age
All this stuff about hard/soft Brexit seems pointless to me now the DUP have confirmed they are in favour of leaving the single market and customs union and will be voting with the government?
Even accounting for Con rebellions from the likes of Clarke and Soubry the government should still have the numbers for the Brexit they want (especially as you'll have a few people on the Labour side like Field and Hoey also voting with the government)
Looks like we're leaving the single market and customs union. The only question is whether there's any transitional arrangements and if so how long they last.
I think the DUP issue is that they are also committed to a "frictionless" border with the Republic of Ireland. If they have to choose between passport checks plus customs booths and single market/customs union, which way do they jump?
Or customs checks on the UK mainland for flights and ships coming from NI - which is the easiest way to ensure a frictionless border between north and south.
A hard border between two parts of the UK? I can see that being popular with unionists.
If British consumers were prepared to pay higher prices, farmers could pay higher wages and would not be so dependent on cheap foreign labour. We're not, though.
Apparently he pays above minimum wage, with free accommodation
Given that 40% of our 18-22 year olds are at university, what exactly do they now do all summer?
Glastonbury, Latitude, T in the Park, BST, and LoveBox
“At least 79 people are dead. It is both a tragedy and an outrage, because every single one of those deaths should and could have been avoided."
He added: “From Hillsborough to the child sex abuse scandal to Grenfell Tower, the pattern is consistent. Working class people’s voices are ignored, their concerns dismissed by those in power.
Yes, I remember Corbyn holding demonstrations outside of Rotherham Council when thousands of working class girls were subjected to mass rape. The outrage from the Left was palpable. Oh hang on.....
To maintain the ratio between workers and retirees you need either:
- a TFR of about 2.4 (against 1.8 today) - and that only stabilises the ratio in about 2060, and at a much worse level than today - the retirment age increasing by four and a half months a year or - immigration of people of working age
Is there a mix of those that would work well, or are we inevitably facing some sort of population boom and bust?
You can get away with treating the lower classes as the shit on the bottom of your shoe for so long, but they do have a habit of saying enough as one. It shouldn't take the death of dozens with thousands more potentially at risk for parliament to suddenly give a toss and start acting.
All this stuff about hard/soft Brexit seems pointless to me now the DUP have confirmed they are in favour of leaving the single market and customs union and will be voting with the government?
Even accounting for Con rebellions from the likes of Clarke and Soubry the government should still have the numbers for the Brexit they want (especially as you'll have a few people on the Labour side like Field and Hoey also voting with the government)
Looks like we're leaving the single market and customs union. The only question is whether there's any transitional arrangements and if so how long they last.
I think the DUP issue is that they are also committed to a "frictionless" border with the Republic of Ireland. If they have to choose between passport checks plus customs booths and single market/customs union, which way do they jump?
It's logical for the DUP not to back staying in the customs union as that would take away their leverage. At the moment they can play both sides off against each other by appearing to believe in the 'cake and eat it option'.
If British consumers were prepared to pay higher prices, farmers could pay higher wages and would not be so dependent on cheap foreign labour. We're not, though.
Apparently he pays above minimum wage, with free accommodation
Given that 40% of our 18-22 year olds are at university, what exactly do they now do all summer?
Glastonbury, Latitude, T in the Park, BST, and LoveBox
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Interesting piece on Today this morning. Brexit-voting farm manager angry that Brexit is making it difficult to recruit
As the old proverb puts it... "Be careful what you wish for - you might get it"
Does "making it difficult to recruit" mean "he doesn't want to pay locals proper wages"?
How much extra a week are you prepared to pay for your groceries to ensure British farmers employ British workers?
And in turn, how much are people prepared to pay a week to ensure that immigrants doing menial jobs live in good quality social housing, with the necessary infrastructure?
Yep - it's a complicated one. The good news is that the more businesses there are paying Corporation tax and the more people there paying income tax, the more can be spent on housing and other necessities; while the everyday demand created by incomers to an area also generates more return to the exchequer from established businesses there. The money to build a lot more social housing in London exists (see K&C cash reserves, for example), it's the will that is the problem.
May has given a confident and comprehensive statement on Grenfell this morning.
She's starting to get a grip, IMO.
It's demonstrably a Maydup Complacency Day on PB today.
Tomorrow we are due a Maydup Panic Day.
It will slosh back and forth, like the tide, until this hopelessly weakened, zombie leader – semi-propped up by a ragbag of regionalist terrorist-sympathising rightwing bigots – kindly leaves the stage.
But we will go back and forth many more times yet. Complacency and panic – the only states of mind of which Tories are capable.
If British consumers were prepared to pay higher prices, farmers could pay higher wages and would not be so dependent on cheap foreign labour. We're not, though.
Apparently he pays above minimum wage, with free accommodation
Given that 40% of our 18-22 year olds are at university, what exactly do they now do all summer?
Glastonbury, Latitude, T in the Park, BST, and LoveBox
So it seems. Whatever happened to the days of finding all sorts of crappy jobs to earn next year's beer money during the summer?
Ha, ha - so it's never a job that a local is going to give up another job for, basically.
Why would a local have to give up another job?
Are you really claiming there are no local unemployed or seasonally available workers? Really?
There would be a very great disincentive for anyone who is unemployed to take a very limited seasonal job under the current system. Whether there are specific seasonally available workers or not in a given area, I don't know. I guess it depends on the season. Students are mostly still at college in may and early June, aren't they?
All this stuff about hard/soft Brexit seems pointless to me now the DUP have confirmed they are in favour of leaving the single market and customs union and will be voting with the government?
Even accounting for Con rebellions from the likes of Clarke and Soubry the government should still have the numbers for the Brexit they want (especially as you'll have a few people on the Labour side like Field and Hoey also voting with the government)
Looks like we're leaving the single market and customs union. The only question is whether there's any transitional arrangements and if so how long they last.
I think the DUP issue is that they are also committed to a "frictionless" border with the Republic of Ireland. If they have to choose between passport checks plus customs booths and single market/customs union, which way do they jump?
Or customs checks on the UK mainland for flights and ships coming from NI - which is the easiest way to ensure a frictionless border between north and south.
A hard border between two parts of the UK? I can see that being popular with unionists.
@zoeconway1: From fruit farm employer: everyone on more than living wage, holiday pay, sick pay. Over 70% of pickers are returnees @BBCr4today #r4today pic.twitter.com/1zcLPZvaOL
Pisspoor management. They should have opened the gates and let people on without tickets until fixed. Instead, they made thousands late for work.
That said, the fact that we are STILL using paper tickets in this day and age is utterly farcical. The public sector railways (e.g. London Underground) are streets ahead of the private sector – which are still functioning like 1960s branch lines, with their bits of card, queues and antiquated technology.
Ha, ha - so it's never a job that a local is going to give up another job for, basically.
Why would a local have to give up another job?
Are you really claiming there are no local unemployed or seasonally available workers? Really?
There would be a very great disincentive for anyone who is unemployed to take a very limited seasonal job under the current system. Whether there are specific seasonally available workers or not in a given area, I don't know. I guess it depends on the season. Students are mostly still at college in may and early June, aren't they?
Most students these days are done by the beginning of june as we discussed in relation to GE. Lots of shall we say lesser unis start in September rather than October and finish earlier, normally due to running a US style semester system, rather than traditional 3 term system.
Pisspoor management. They should have opened the gates and let people on without tickets until fixed. Instead, they made thousands late for work.
That said, the fact that we are STILL using paper tickets in this day and age is utterly farcical. The public sector railways (e.g. London Underground) are streets ahead of the private sector – which are still functioning like 1960s branch lines, with their bits of card, queues and antiquated technology.
Privatised South West Trains use Smart Card and Oyster. And lets not forget that National Rail inherited their 'antiquated' ticketing structure from the public sector British Rail.
All this stuff about hard/soft Brexit seems pointless to me now the DUP have confirmed they are in favour of leaving the single market and customs union and will be voting with the government?
Even accounting for Con rebellions from the likes of Clarke and Soubry the government should still have the numbers for the Brexit they want (especially as you'll have a few people on the Labour side like Field and Hoey also voting with the government)
Looks like we're leaving the single market and customs union. The only question is whether there's any transitional arrangements and if so how long they last.
I think the DUP issue is that they are also committed to a "frictionless" border with the Republic of Ireland. If they have to choose between passport checks plus customs booths and single market/customs union, which way do they jump?
Or customs checks on the UK mainland for flights and ships coming from NI - which is the easiest way to ensure a frictionless border between north and south.
A hard border between two parts of the UK? I can see that being popular with unionists.
Exactly!
My sense is we end up with a soft fudge, on Brexit. There is no majority in parliament or the country for a hard Brexit and the Irish question is insurmountable. Weird if a bunch of terrorist sympathising rightwing nutters actually end up clinching a soft Brexit deal.
Remember the Japanese government's paper on Brexit which demanded we stay in the customs union and single market and stay under the EU regulatory umbrella?
If British consumers were prepared to pay higher prices, farmers could pay higher wages and would not be so dependent on cheap foreign labour. We're not, though.
Apparently he pays above minimum wage, with free accommodation
Given that 40% of our 18-22 year olds are at university, what exactly do they now do all summer?
Glastonbury, Latitude, T in the Park, BST, and LoveBox
So it seems. Whatever happened to the days of finding all sorts of crappy jobs to earn next year's beer money during the summer?
We are dangerously close to yet another PB Tory "let's all stereotype and be condensing to Millennials" thread, the classic of the genre of which was seen – and can still be read, to much amusement – on 7 June.
Yes because since the flood of migrants they have reduced the conditions so much a brit with family living here couldn't possibly afford to work there, e.g. they used to pay per hour now it is fake "self-employed".
So no guarantee of wages.
Somehow the strawberries didn't rot in the fields before the A8 countries joinded, but now greedy welfare farmers want ever cheaper labour who work under increasingly worse conditions.
Con 43.43% Lab 41.02% LD 7.56% SNP 3.11% UKIP 1.89% Greens 1.65% PC 0.52% Others 0.81%
Some sources are quoting the Con share as 43.5%. This must be arrived at by including the Speaker's votes in the Conservative tally, which would change the Tory and Other shares to:
Mr. Glenn, that headline is spectacularly uninformative.
A Japanese bank continuing to trade in the EU is not news. The headline could mean anything from a major shift of focus, money and personnel from London to Frankfurt, or simply a necessary administrative change.
Pisspoor management. They should have opened the gates and let people on without tickets until fixed. Instead, they made thousands late for work.
That said, the fact that we are STILL using paper tickets in this day and age is utterly farcical. The public sector railways (e.g. London Underground) are streets ahead of the private sector – which are still functioning like 1960s branch lines, with their bits of card, queues and antiquated technology.
Privatised South West Trains use Smart Card and Oyster. And lets not forget that National Rail inherited their 'antiquated' ticketing structure from the public sector British Rail.
British Rail hasn't existed in any form since 1997. That was two decades ago. And yes, a few chunks of the franchised system have – kicking and screaming – Oysterised. But it took them ages and they are still in a tiny minority.
If British consumers were prepared to pay higher prices, farmers could pay higher wages and would not be so dependent on cheap foreign labour. We're not, though.
Apparently he pays above minimum wage, with free accommodation
Given that 40% of our 18-22 year olds are at university, what exactly do they now do all summer?
Glastonbury, Latitude, T in the Park, BST, and LoveBox
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many students actually have part-time jobs and they increase their hours during this time,crazy I know.....
I don't think pb could be more out of touch. But then again they did think the Social care policy was a good idea and wouldn't lose any votes in the south.....LOL.
Thousands of you have been corralled into potential death traps that are that way so as to look pretty to your betters in private homes. How the f... do you sell that as a Government?!
If British consumers were prepared to pay higher prices, farmers could pay higher wages and would not be so dependent on cheap foreign labour. We're not, though.
Apparently he pays above minimum wage, with free accommodation
Given that 40% of our 18-22 year olds are at university, what exactly do they now do all summer?
Glastonbury, Latitude, T in the Park, BST, and LoveBox
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many students actually have part-time jobs and they increase their hours during this time,crazy I know.....
I don't think pb could be more out of touch. But then again they did think the Social care policy was a good idea and wouldn't lose any votes in the south.....LOL.
Chortle. To quote an erstwhile PB colleague:
The PB Tories are always wrong. And they never, ever learn.
To maintain the ratio between workers and retirees you need either:
- a TFR of about 2.4 (against 1.8 today) - and that only stabilises the ratio in about 2060, and at a much worse level than today - the retirment age increasing by four and a half months a year or - immigration of people of working age
Is there a mix of those that would work well, or are we inevitably facing some sort of population boom and bust?
I've always favoured free vodka, cocaine and cigarettes for the over 60s as a way of solving the ageing population problem :-)
More seriously, the first and most important thing is to begin the process of allowing the retirement age to creep up. By 2030, nobody should be collecting a pension before the age of 70. This doesn't solve the problem of health benefits, but it cuts pension costs and increases the overall pool of labour issue.
We also need to do more to get the birth rate up, especially as the recent increase in the TFR has been concentrated in immigrant communities. (Over 50% of babies born in London are to families where at least one parent is an immigrant.) So, if you reduce the flow of fertile foreigners, you risk having fewer babies. I would, however, suggest that we adopt the French taxation system, where families are taxed and kids bring their own "tax allowance". (This means that a French family with three kids don't pay any tax on their first €50,000 of income, and are on only about 20% up to €150,000).
Finally, we do need to be an attractive place for the world's brightest and best to come. Attitudes matter. The fact that the number of EU nurses applying for jobs in the UK has fallen 96% since the Brexit vote tells you that the UK appears a much less welcoming place.
Thousands of you have been corralled into potential death traps that are that way so as to look pretty to your betters in private homes. How the f... do you sell that as a Government?!
More fake news? Thought they were clad to comply with Energy saving regulations / insulation.
Remember the Japanese government's paper on Brexit which demanded we stay in the customs union and single market and stay under the EU regulatory umbrella?
If British consumers were prepared to pay higher prices, farmers could pay higher wages and would not be so dependent on cheap foreign labour. We're not, though.
Apparently he pays above minimum wage, with free accommodation
Given that 40% of our 18-22 year olds are at university, what exactly do they now do all summer?
Glastonbury, Latitude, T in the Park, BST, and LoveBox
Download, reading, Leeds, isle of wight, bestival,...
many students actually have part-time jobs and they increase their hours during this time,crazy I know.....
I don't think pb could be more out of touch. But then again they did think the Social care policy was a good idea and wouldn't lose any votes in the south.....LOL.
I actually asked this below...I would interested to know hard facts / figures. What industries do they work in if not warehouse, fruit picking and other traditional seasonal jobs etc.
Thousands of you have been corralled into potential death traps that are that way so as to look pretty to your betters in private homes. How the f... do you sell that as a Government?!
Oh, for God's sake. Not only is this puerile and offensive nonsense in its own right, it's also completely irresponsible.
Pisspoor management. They should have opened the gates and let people on without tickets until fixed. Instead, they made thousands late for work.
That said, the fact that we are STILL using paper tickets in this day and age is utterly farcical. The public sector railways (e.g. London Underground) are streets ahead of the private sector – which are still functioning like 1960s branch lines, with their bits of card, queues and antiquated technology.
Privatised South West Trains use Smart Card and Oyster. And lets not forget that National Rail inherited their 'antiquated' ticketing structure from the public sector British Rail.
British Rail hasn't existed in any form since 1997. That was two decades ago. And yes, a few chunks of the franchised system have – kicking and screaming – Oysterised. But it took them ages and they are still in a tiny minority.
Many of British Rail's public sector values still run deep within the railway industry. BT is another classic example of entrenched views clinging on.
Yes because since the flood of migrants they have reduced the conditions so much a brit with family living here couldn't possibly afford to work there, e.g. they used to pay per hour now it is fake "self-employed".
So no guarantee of wages.
Somehow the strawberries didn't rot in the fields before the A8 countries joinded, but now greedy welfare farmers want ever cheaper labour who work under increasingly worse conditions.
Strawberries used to be a luxury product and a lot more expensive than they are now. They did not rot, but there were far fewer of them and people paid an awful lot more for the pleasure of eating them.
More seriously, the first and most important thing is to begin the process of allowing the retirement age to creep up. By 2030, nobody should be collecting a pension before the age of 70. This doesn't solve the problem of health benefits, but it cuts pension costs and increases the overall pool of labour issue.
I think that encouraging people to work longer would almost certainly improve their health as well.
So 600 buildings with say 150 flats in each. That's 90,000 new homes.. good luck with rehousing that.
I would happily live on the top floor of a flat with combustible cladding. Frankly, the risk is tiny, especially as we all now know to evacuate immediately in the event of fire.
Let's remediate as best we can, but there's really no need to go around panicing. Of the 23,000 clad high rise tower blocks in Europe, how many have had major fire issues in the last decade?
Maybe the 600 figure refers to all types of cladding? i.e. that there are 600 blocks which need to be inspected.
Yes
@MrHarryCole: Huge story. No10 confirm 3 samples of combustible cladding already found on buildings in Eng - but 600 ! have similar. How did this happen?
I think some of you are missing the point about land work. I did it most holidays up until I left for University. By the time I got to age 13, I'd already had a history of bean pulling and pea-pulling, and at 13, I starting going on the vans. But it was zero hours with a vengeance. if it rained, you got nothing.
In the summer, when at university, it was seasonal work indoors if you could get it.
And I'm talking about the 1960s when the benefits were much lower. It was work or nothing. Now there are far more options, but it's nice to feel you'd have this to fall back on if necessary. However the work is still hard and low-paid, and only the immigrants from the poorer regions of Eastern Europe will take it up.
The socialist creed is 'Workers of the World unite", not "Workers of Britain unite." Hence the irritation with Labour.
More seriously, the first and most important thing is to begin the process of allowing the retirement age to creep up. By 2030, nobody should be collecting a pension before the age of 70. This doesn't solve the problem of health benefits, but it cuts pension costs and increases the overall pool of labour issue.
I think that encouraging people to work longer would almost certainly improve their health as well.
Yes because since the flood of migrants they have reduced the conditions so much a brit with family living here couldn't possibly afford to work there, e.g. they used to pay per hour now it is fake "self-employed".
So no guarantee of wages.
Somehow the strawberries didn't rot in the fields before the A8 countries joinded, but now greedy welfare farmers want ever cheaper labour who work under increasingly worse conditions.
Strawberries used to be a luxury product and a lot more expensive than they are now. They did not rot, but there were far fewer of them and people paid an awful lot more for the pleasure of eating them.
Yes because since the flood of migrants they have reduced the conditions so much a brit with family living here couldn't possibly afford to work there, e.g. they used to pay per hour now it is fake "self-employed".
So no guarantee of wages.
Somehow the strawberries didn't rot in the fields before the A8 countries joinded, but now greedy welfare farmers want ever cheaper labour who work under increasingly worse conditions.
Strawberries used to be a luxury product and a lot more expensive than they are now. They did not rot, but there were far fewer of them and people paid an awful lot more for the pleasure of eating them.
Pick-Your-Own used to be popular in Essex. Never see signs nowadays.
Pisspoor management. They should have opened the gates and let people on without tickets until fixed. Instead, they made thousands late for work.
That said, the fact that we are STILL using paper tickets in this day and age is utterly farcical. The public sector railways (e.g. London Underground) are streets ahead of the private sector – which are still functioning like 1960s branch lines, with their bits of card, queues and antiquated technology.
Privatised South West Trains use Smart Card and Oyster. And lets not forget that National Rail inherited their 'antiquated' ticketing structure from the public sector British Rail.
British Rail hasn't existed in any form since 1997. That was two decades ago. And yes, a few chunks of the franchised system have – kicking and screaming – Oysterised. But it took them ages and they are still in a tiny minority.
Many of British Rail's public sector values still run deep within the railway industry. BT is another classic example of entrenched views clinging on.
LOL. Only an arch privatiser could excuse the failures of the franchising shambles on a public body that ceased to exist 20 years ago. Your argument is undermined somewhat by the fact that the nationalised TfL is integrated, ticketless and cashless – including the buses. Only tourists buy a ticket despite being implored not to by endless PA announcements. The franchises are backward.
Yes because since the flood of migrants they have reduced the conditions so much a brit with family living here couldn't possibly afford to work there, e.g. they used to pay per hour now it is fake "self-employed".
So no guarantee of wages.
Somehow the strawberries didn't rot in the fields before the A8 countries joinded, but now greedy welfare farmers want ever cheaper labour who work under increasingly worse conditions.
Strawberries used to be a luxury product and a lot more expensive than they are now. They did not rot, but there were far fewer of them and people paid an awful lot more for the pleasure of eating them.
We might have to import strawberries. Or what about pick your own farms - I remember going to one as a kid on the Stoneleigh Road, felt like a great adventure
Thousands of you have been corralled into potential death traps that are that way so as to look pretty to your betters in private homes. How the f... do you sell that as a Government?!
Thousands of you have been corralled into potential death traps that are that way so as to look pretty to your betters in private homes. How the f... do you sell that as a Government?!
I'm sure that most of us live in houses and flats that don't comply with modern best practice in terms of fire safety. But, that's a risk that many of us are prepared to take.
More seriously, the first and most important thing is to begin the process of allowing the retirement age to creep up. By 2030, nobody should be collecting a pension before the age of 70. This doesn't solve the problem of health benefits, but it cuts pension costs and increases the overall pool of labour issue.
I think that encouraging people to work longer would almost certainly improve their health as well.
One thing I think the government had got wrong with increase in retirement age is to continue the notion of one day 40hrs a week, the next nothing. They should be encouraging an approach where people gradually reduce down hours in their 60s.
One thing I think the government had got wrong with increase in retirement age is to continue the notion of one day 40hrs a week, the next nothing. They should be encouraging an approach where people gradually reduce down hours in their 60s.
They could put TMay on a three day week and rotate potential successors for the rest of the time?
Ha, ha - so it's never a job that a local is going to give up another job for, basically.
Why would a local have to give up another job?
Are you really claiming there are no local unemployed or seasonally available workers? Really?
There would be a very great disincentive for anyone who is unemployed to take a very limited seasonal job under the current system. Whether there are specific seasonally available workers or not in a given area, I don't know. I guess it depends on the season. Students are mostly still at college in may and early June, aren't they?
I thought the new Universal Benefit system made short-term working easier to arrange than previously?
Getting people to the jobs may well be more difficult, especially for those with families, and farm work is really only for the young and fit. I wonder if the benefits system could incorporate lower withdrawal rates for seasonal farm work to incentivise people?
Didn't most uni students finish before the election?
Thousands of you have been corralled into potential death traps that are that way so as to look pretty to your betters in private homes. How the f... do you sell that as a Government?!
I'm sure that most of us live in houses and flats that don't comply with modern best practice in terms of fire safety. But, that's a risk that many of us are prepared to take.
The standards in a tower block simply have to be higher though. I know my hob isn't strictly to standard, but I have a very good chance to get out through the bathroom window should my misses somehow set the house on fire whilst cooking downstairs. It is different when you're on the 15th floor up in a flat.
Pisspoor management. They should have opened the gates and let people on without tickets until fixed. Instead, they made thousands late for work.
That said, the fact that we are STILL using paper tickets in this day and age is utterly farcical. The public sector railways (e.g. London Underground) are streets ahead of the private sector – which are still functioning like 1960s branch lines, with their bits of card, queues and antiquated technology.
Privatised South West Trains use Smart Card and Oyster. And lets not forget that National Rail inherited their 'antiquated' ticketing structure from the public sector British Rail.
British Rail hasn't existed in any form since 1997. That was two decades ago. And yes, a few chunks of the franchised system have – kicking and screaming – Oysterised. But it took them ages and they are still in a tiny minority.
Many of British Rail's public sector values still run deep within the railway industry. BT is another classic example of entrenched views clinging on.
LOL. Only an arch privatiser could excuse the failures of the franchising shambles on a public body that ceased to exist 20 years ago. Your argument is undermined somewhat by the fact that the nationalised TfL is integrated, ticketless and cashless – including the buses. Only tourists buy a ticket despite being implored not to by endless PA announcements. The franchises are backward.
Oh for the heady days of British Rail. Filthy, dangerous and ancient rolling stock, dwindling passenger numbers and multiple fatalities.
Thousands of you have been corralled into potential death traps that are that way so as to look pretty to your betters in private homes. How the f... do you sell that as a Government?!
Oh, for God's sake. Not only is this puerile and offensive nonsense in its own right, it's also completely irresponsible.
The point is that this is how it will be perceived. It's a natural leap from where we are and how things have been. It's a disgrace, there can't really be any other conclusion. And I make no bones about stating what I think will be the reaction, it's something the country needs to be ready for and address.
One thing I think the government had got wrong with increase in retirement age is to continue the notion of one day 40hrs a week, the next nothing. They should be encouraging an approach where people gradually reduce down hours in their 60s.
Yes, absolutely. But it's not quite true to say that the government hasn't helped with that - for example, the pension freedoms introduced by Osborne make it much easier to wind down gradually.
"Hundreds of tower blocks in England could be covered in similar cladding to Glenfell Tower, councils have estimated.
So far tests have revealed that combustible cladding has been found on at least three tower blocks across the UK, the government has said.
But Downing Street said English councils estimated that 600 high-rise buildings used similar cladding to the block in west London which was the scene of tragedy last week." (Guardian blog)
Thousands of you have been corralled into potential death traps that are that way so as to look pretty to your betters in private homes. How the f... do you sell that as a Government?!
Thousands of you have been corralled into potential death traps that are that way so as to look pretty to your betters in private homes. How the f... do you sell that as a Government?!
I'm sure that most of us live in houses and flats that don't comply with modern best practice in terms of fire safety. But, that's a risk that many of us are prepared to take.
Taking the risk is fine if you are aware of the risk.
So 600 buildings with say 150 flats in each. That's 90,000 new homes.. good luck with rehousing that.
I would happily live on the top floor of a flat with combustible cladding. Frankly, the risk is tiny, especially as we all now know to evacuate immediately in the event of fire.
Let's remediate as best we can, but there's really no need to go around panicing. Of the 23,000 clad high rise tower blocks in Europe, how many have had major fire issues in the last decade?
No, we don't all know that, and it's irresponsible to say so. In some cases it's better to stay put when there's a fire. The rule is still to follow instructions, albeit that there are obviously circumstances when a decision must be taken to disobey them.
Watershed moment. There will be civil unrest over this.
Whipped up by Momentum and Labour, should it happen. Would you prefer HMG kept things quiet?
I'm not salivating, I merely foretell.
Hold on. The key word is 'similar'. The issue, as far as we know so far, is that some of these types of cladding are fire resistant and others aren't.
Fair enough. I perhaps reacted with something of a horrified knee jerk. Just feels like the whole issue is seen as something of an inconvenience, when it is potentially a very grave matter.
Thousands of you have been corralled into potential death traps that are that way so as to look pretty to your betters in private homes. How the f... do you sell that as a Government?!
Do you really think that they have clad these buildings to make them look pretty?
So 600 buildings with say 150 flats in each. That's 90,000 new homes.. good luck with rehousing that.
There are a lot of individual statements out there from local authorities. I've seen Kirklees (4 tower blocks, no confirmation on cladding types, though I think 3 have been clad), Sheffield (24 blocks, all 21 clad blocks specified rock wool). If these scale typically for cities / smaller metros then, even allowing for London, hard to see how you would reach 600 dangerously clad blocks.
Pisspoor management. They should have opened the gates and let people on without tickets until fixed. Instead, they made thousands late for work.
That said, the fact that we are STILL using paper tickets in this day and age is utterly farcical. The public sector railways (e.g. London Underground) are streets ahead of the private sector – which are still functioning like 1960s branch lines, with their bits of card, queues and antiquated technology.
Privatised South West Trains use Smart Card and Oyster. And lets not forget that National Rail inherited their 'antiquated' ticketing structure from the public sector British Rail.
British Rail hasn't existed in any form since 1997. That was two decades ago. And yes, a few chunks of the franchised system have – kicking and screaming – Oysterised. But it took them ages and they are still in a tiny minority.
Many of British Rail's public sector values still run deep within the railway industry. BT is another classic example of entrenched views clinging on.
LOL. Only an arch privatiser could excuse the failures of the franchising shambles on a public body that ceased to exist 20 years ago. Your argument is undermined somewhat by the fact that the nationalised TfL is integrated, ticketless and cashless – including the buses. Only tourists buy a ticket despite being implored not to by endless PA announcements. The franchises are backward.
Oh for the heady days of British Rail. Filthy, dangerous and ancient rolling stock, dwindling passenger numbers and multiple fatalities.
As a non regular rail user my main objection to nationalisation is that it may well long term cost me more. But East Coast Mainline, the tubes and the fact alot of our rail is effectively owned by foreign governments in some form or another (Deutsche Bahn) put paid to the idea it would go back to the "bad old days of British Rail" in my mind. I think it would work, and work well for rail users - wouldn't trust Corbyn to implement it though treble pay rises all round for the unions. Mind you with Southern seems that may well happen in the private sector...
"Hundreds of tower blocks in England could be covered in similar cladding to Glenfell Tower, councils have estimated.
So far tests have revealed that combustible cladding has been found on at least three tower blocks across the UK, the government has said.
But Downing Street said English councils estimated that 600 high-rise buildings used similar cladding to the block in west London which was the scene of tragedy last week." (Guardian blog)
'could' 'similar'.... sounds a bit uncertain to me.
"Hundreds of tower blocks in England could be covered in similar cladding to Glenfell Tower, councils have estimated.
So far tests have revealed that combustible cladding has been found on at least three tower blocks across the UK, the government has said.
But Downing Street said English councils estimated that 600 high-rise buildings used similar cladding to the block in west London which was the scene of tragedy last week." (Guardian blog)
'could' 'similar'.... sounds a bit uncertain to me.
Thousands of you have been corralled into potential death traps that are that way so as to look pretty to your betters in private homes. How the f... do you sell that as a Government?!
Do you really think that they have clad these buildings to make them look pretty?
For the government two things work in their favour:
1. If this is an endemic problem then it won't have materialised in 2010 and hence all governments can be found responsible.
2. Notwithstanding Pt.1, having withstood an onslaught of legitimate and less legitimate attacks over the past two weeks, I'm not sure anything can bring the govt down and any new news will be put into the existing pot.
That said, they need to do something pretty bold and inspired now and I'm not sure that included buying luxury blocks of flats for those people up and down the country.
So 600 buildings with say 150 flats in each. That's 90,000 new homes.. good luck with rehousing that.
I would happily live on the top floor of a flat with combustible cladding. Frankly, the risk is tiny, especially as we all now know to evacuate immediately in the event of fire.
Let's remediate as best we can, but there's really no need to go around panicing. Of the 23,000 clad high rise tower blocks in Europe, how many have had major fire issues in the last decade?
But how do we know when there's a fire, if all that's in the building are domestic smoke alarms rather than a building-wide fire monitored control system? Reports from Grenfell said that people were woken up by shouting but the alarm in their apartment didn't go off until they opened their door and let the smoke in!
The problem with a building-wide system is that it needs a security guard on site to react to it, or you end up evacuating the whole building every time someone burns their toast.
The point is that this is how it will be perceived. It's a natural leap from where we are and how things have been. It's a disgrace, there can't really be any other conclusion. And I make no bones about stating what I think will be the reaction, it's something the country needs to be ready for and address.
It would be helpful if the opposition didn't try exploit the issue to to stir up hatred based on misrepresentation. Fat chance, I know.
I do find it grmily amusing though that the argument is that refurbishing a building at public expense to make it warmer as well as visually more attractive is somehow an evil plot against the proletariat by wicked Tory capitalists. The implication is that the Left think that the proletariat should properly be left shivering in ugly concrete monstrosities.
Thousands of you have been corralled into potential death traps that are that way so as to look pretty to your betters in private homes. How the f... do you sell that as a Government?!
Thousands of you have been corralled into potential death traps that are that way so as to look pretty to your betters in private homes. How the f... do you sell that as a Government?!
Thousands of you have been corralled into potential death traps that are that way so as to look pretty to your betters in private homes. How the f... do you sell that as a Government?!
I'm sure that most of us live in houses and flats that don't comply with modern best practice in terms of fire safety. But, that's a risk that many of us are prepared to take.
Taking the risk is fine if you are aware of the risk.
Probably, people aren't thinking much about fire risks when they buy that charming old house that has the potential to go up like a torch.
For the government two things work in their favour:
1. If this is an endemic problem then it won't have materialised in 2010 and hence all governments can be found responsible.
2. Notwithstanding Pt.1, having withstood an onslaught of legitimate and less legitimate attacks over the past two weeks, I'm not sure anything can bring the govt down and any new news will be put into the existing pot.
That said, they need to do something pretty bold and inspired now and I'm not sure that included buying luxury blocks of flats for those people up and down the country.
Thousands of you have been corralled into potential death traps that are that way so as to look pretty to your betters in private homes. How the f... do you sell that as a Government?!
Do you really think that they have clad these buildings to make them look pretty?
Well it sure wasn't for fire safety was it?!
The main purpose of cladding is insulation. It's a good thing, because tower blocks have been plagued with damp in the past. But, if the cladding is flammable, it's going to have to be taken down and replaced.
The point is that this is how it will be perceived. It's a natural leap from where we are and how things have been. It's a disgrace, there can't really be any other conclusion. And I make no bones about stating what I think will be the reaction, it's something the country needs to be ready for and address.
It would be helpful if the opposition didn't try exploit the issue to to stir up hatred based on misrepresentation. Fat chance, I know.
I do find it grmily amusing though that the argument is that refurbishing a building at public expense to make it warmer as well as visually more attractive is somehow an evil plot against the proletariat by wicked Tory capitalists. The implication is that the Left think that the proletariat should properly be left shivering in ugly concrete monstrosities.
But it all feeds a perception that austerity, or what passes for austerity, seems to make a truism. That it is the bottom end that suffer disproportionately whilst the well off just have to cancel the second skiing trip at easter. It's a perception that is hard to dislodge but, to the mother in front of the closed sure start or the mental health sufferer being probed at a fitness to work assessment is hard to deny.
Privatised South West Trains use Smart Card and Oyster. And lets not forget that National Rail inherited their 'antiquated' ticketing structure from the public sector British Rail.
SNIP
SNIP
SNIP
SNIP
As a non regular rail user my main objection to nationalisation is that it may well long term cost me more. But East Coast Mainline, the tubes and the fact alot of our rail is effectively owned by foreign governments in some form or another (Deutsche Bahn) put paid to the idea it would go back to the "bad old days of British Rail" in my mind. I think it would work, and work well for rail users - wouldn't trust Corbyn to implement it though treble pay rises all round for the unions. Mind you with Southern seems that may well happen in the private sector...
Indeed so. ECML was a success under public ownership and returned a good surplus to the taxpayer. The Tories reprivatised it to Virgin – a pisspoor operator – against the will of its users for reasons known only to themselves.
Given that the UK's busiest railway – London Underground – is nationalised, and, as you say, so are several others (but to foreign governments) any lingering arguments the apologists for franchising have turned to dust.
Meanwhile, here is that well-known Commie Peter Hitchens on rail privatisation:
The point is that this is how it will be perceived. It's a natural leap from where we are and how things have been. It's a disgrace, there can't really be any other conclusion. And I make no bones about stating what I think will be the reaction, it's something the country needs to be ready for and address.
It would be helpful if the opposition didn't try exploit the issue to to stir up hatred based on misrepresentation. Fat chance, I know.
I do find it grmily amusing though that the argument is that refurbishing a building at public expense to make it warmer as well as visually more attractive is somehow an evil plot against the proletariat by wicked Tory capitalists. The implication is that the Left think that the proletariat should properly be left shivering in ugly concrete monstrosities.
This point is exactly what has annoyed me about the "lack of investment" claims regarding Grenfell Towers. The simple fact is if the building had not been modernised then the fire would have been confined to one flat.
Thousands of you have been corralled into potential death traps that are that way so as to look pretty to your betters in private homes. How the f... do you sell that as a Government?!
I'm sure that most of us live in houses and flats that don't comply with modern best practice in terms of fire safety. But, that's a risk that many of us are prepared to take.
The standards in a tower block simply have to be higher though. I know my hob isn't strictly to standard, but I have a very good chance to get out through the bathroom window should my misses somehow set the house on fire whilst cooking downstairs. It is different when you're on the 15th floor up in a flat.
I think the cladding has to be checked, and if it's flammable, then it must be replaced.
But, most fire deaths and injuries don't take place in tower blocks.
Comments
She seems to have taken over the fire tragedy in person and her dealing with the many facets of this could in the longer run improve her voter confidence
To maintain the ratio between workers and retirees you need either:
- a TFR of about 2.4 (against 1.8 today) - and that only stabilises the ratio in about 2060, and at a much worse level than today
- the retirment age increasing by four and a half months a year
or
- immigration of people of working age
http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p056m1f5
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/06/22/rail-ticket-machines-across-uk-broken-causing-fury-millions/
Are you really claiming there are no local unemployed or seasonally available workers? Really?
Tomorrow we are due a Maydup Panic Day.
It will slosh back and forth, like the tide, until this hopelessly weakened, zombie leader – semi-propped up by a ragbag of regionalist terrorist-sympathising rightwing bigots – kindly leaves the stage.
But we will go back and forth many more times yet. Complacency and panic – the only states of mind of which Tories are capable.
Why won't locals take the jobs?
That said, the fact that we are STILL using paper tickets in this day and age is utterly farcical. The public sector railways (e.g. London Underground) are streets ahead of the private sector – which are still functioning like 1960s branch lines, with their bits of card, queues and antiquated technology.
http://www.mofa.go.jp/files/000185466.pdf
Now it seems Japanese business is starting to take matters into its own hands:
https://twitter.com/business/status/877765607780868096
Apparently we (the UK) have a Plan. I thought we were just making it up as we went along....
"Prime Minister Theresa May is to address EU leaders on her plans for the issue of expats' rights after Brexit."
- http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-40362594
We are dangerously close to yet another PB Tory "let's all stereotype and be condensing to Millennials" thread, the classic of the genre of which was seen – and can still be read, to much amusement – on 7 June.
So no guarantee of wages.
Somehow the strawberries didn't rot in the fields before the A8 countries joinded, but now greedy welfare farmers want ever cheaper labour who work under increasingly worse conditions.
Con 43.43%
Lab 41.02%
LD 7.56%
SNP 3.11%
UKIP 1.89%
Greens 1.65%
PC 0.52%
Others 0.81%
Some sources are quoting the Con share as 43.5%. This must be arrived at by including the Speaker's votes in the Conservative tally, which would change the Tory and Other shares to:
Con 43.54%
Others 0.70%
A Japanese bank continuing to trade in the EU is not news. The headline could mean anything from a major shift of focus, money and personnel from London to Frankfurt, or simply a necessary administrative change.
Combustible cladding has been found on at least three tower blocks across the UK, the government has said.
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/blog/live/2017/jun/22/hammond-suggests-brexit-transitional-period-could-last-up-to-four-years-politics-live
11:11
Maybe the 600 figure refers to all types of cladding? i.e. that there are 600 blocks which need to be inspected.
I don't think pb could be more out of touch. But then again they did think the Social care policy was a good idea and wouldn't lose any votes in the south.....LOL.
How the f... do you sell that as a Government?!
The PB Tories are always wrong. And they never, ever learn.
More seriously, the first and most important thing is to begin the process of allowing the retirement age to creep up. By 2030, nobody should be collecting a pension before the age of 70. This doesn't solve the problem of health benefits, but it cuts pension costs and increases the overall pool of labour issue.
We also need to do more to get the birth rate up, especially as the recent increase in the TFR has been concentrated in immigrant communities. (Over 50% of babies born in London are to families where at least one parent is an immigrant.) So, if you reduce the flow of fertile foreigners, you risk having fewer babies. I would, however, suggest that we adopt the French taxation system, where families are taxed and kids bring their own "tax allowance". (This means that a French family with three kids don't pay any tax on their first €50,000 of income, and are on only about 20% up to €150,000).
Finally, we do need to be an attractive place for the world's brightest and best to come. Attitudes matter. The fact that the number of EU nurses applying for jobs in the UK has fallen 96% since the Brexit vote tells you that the UK appears a much less welcoming place.
Did any PBer warn that some in the financial services industry might relocate from the UK after Brexit?
*Innocent Face*
Let's remediate as best we can, but there's really no need to go around panicing. Of the 23,000 clad high rise tower blocks in Europe, how many have had major fire issues in the last decade?
@MrHarryCole: Huge story. No10 confirm 3 samples of combustible cladding already found on buildings in Eng - but 600 ! have similar. How did this happen?
In the summer, when at university, it was seasonal work indoors if you could get it.
And I'm talking about the 1960s when the benefits were much lower. It was work or nothing.
Now there are far more options, but it's nice to feel you'd have this to fall back on if necessary. However the work is still hard and low-paid, and only the immigrants from the poorer regions of Eastern Europe will take it up.
The socialist creed is 'Workers of the World unite", not "Workers of Britain unite." Hence the irritation with Labour.
Getting people to the jobs may well be more difficult, especially for those with families, and farm work is really only for the young and fit. I wonder if the benefits system could incorporate lower withdrawal rates for seasonal farm work to incentivise people?
Didn't most uni students finish before the election?
It is different when you're on the 15th floor up in a flat.
And I make no bones about stating what I think will be the reaction, it's something the country needs to be ready for and address.
"Hundreds of tower blocks in England could be covered in similar cladding to Glenfell Tower, councils have estimated.
So far tests have revealed that combustible cladding has been found on at least three tower blocks across the UK, the government has said.
But Downing Street said English councils estimated that 600 high-rise buildings used similar cladding to the block in west London which was the scene of tragedy last week."
(Guardian blog)
But East Coast Mainline, the tubes and the fact alot of our rail is effectively owned by foreign governments in some form or another (Deutsche Bahn) put paid to the idea it would go back to the "bad old days of British Rail" in my mind.
I think it would work, and work well for rail users - wouldn't trust Corbyn to implement it though treble pay rises all round for the unions. Mind you with Southern seems that may well happen in the private sector...
1. If this is an endemic problem then it won't have materialised in 2010 and hence all governments can be found responsible.
2. Notwithstanding Pt.1, having withstood an onslaught of legitimate and less legitimate attacks over the past two weeks, I'm not sure anything can bring the govt down and any new news will be put into the existing pot.
That said, they need to do something pretty bold and inspired now and I'm not sure that included buying luxury blocks of flats for those people up and down the country.
@JosiasJessop any ideas?
The problem with a building-wide system is that it needs a security guard on site to react to it, or you end up evacuating the whole building every time someone burns their toast.
I do find it grmily amusing though that the argument is that refurbishing a building at public expense to make it warmer as well as visually more attractive is somehow an evil plot against the proletariat by wicked Tory capitalists. The implication is that the Left think that the proletariat should properly be left shivering in ugly concrete monstrosities.
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/blog/live/2017/jun/22/hammond-suggests-brexit-transitional-period-could-last-up-to-four-years-politics-live
It does look as though the 600 figure refers to buildings where the cladding needs to be checked.
Given that the UK's busiest railway – London Underground – is nationalised, and, as you say, so are several others (but to foreign governments) any lingering arguments the apologists for franchising have turned to dust.
Meanwhile, here is that well-known Commie Peter Hitchens on rail privatisation:
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-2625338/PETER-HITCHENS-Bring-British-Raid-Privatisation-act-political-madness-huge-left-delays-antique-trains-vast-bill-Labour-knows-time.html
But, most fire deaths and injuries don't take place in tower blocks.
three samples were found to be combustible after tests on a “small number” of specimens.
If it's three out of a 'small number' tested so far, that does suggest we might be talking about a chunky number out of the 600 they are checking.