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politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » It’s time for Labour to push back against Tory plastic patriot
politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » It’s time for Labour to push back against Tory plastic patriotism
Labour has allowed the Conservative party to question its patriotism and take sole ownership of the Union Jack. That is a mistake, says Joff Wild – particularly in light of what has happened over recent years
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Well
As to your last point, as a patriot, I believe that MPs who are returned from Scotland, Wales, and Northern Ireland are entitled to participate in the government of this country.
Voters are not that stupid. They can tell the difference between policies they might not like and positions which are not patriotic - most notably, supporting or sympathising with our enemies, or failing to support our servicemen and women. Things like this for example:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/05/12/britain-has-not-fought-just-war-since-1945-says-jeremy-corbyn/
http://www.express.co.uk/news/politics/811474/Jeremy-Corbyn-prime-minister-Falkland-Islands-grab-Argentina-General-Election
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/05/21/growing-row-jeremy-corbyns-links-ira-refuses-five-times-condemn/
So, for as long as the present leadership are in place, it's best for Labour to change the subject.
As for patriotism, it's a bad point to make with the current leadership. Jeremy is no D-Day war hero a la Denis Healey. Despite the mud slung, the fact remains that they have thought and perhaps still think that the British State is an imperialist oppressor.
I do think 'citizen of the world' is a bit of a weird idea, but the 'citizen of nowhere' line probably alienated some people without actually getting any benefit with others. I don't think it was clever, but I'm curious why it irritates you so much.
All it made me think of is 'rootless cosmopolitan'
(I know that was not her intention, but that's where my mind went)
Totally unnecessary.
Rootless cosmopolitan was a pejorative label used during the anti-Semitic campaign in the Soviet Union after World War II.[1]
Cosmopolitans were intellectuals who were accused of expressing pro-Western feelings and lack of patriotism. The term "rootless cosmopolitan" referred to Jewish intellectuals. It was popularized during the campaign in a Pravda article condemning a group of theatrical critics
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rootless_cosmopolitan
On reflection, it's a bit strong for a Prime Minister to say - even a Tory one.
The moderates will deeply regret what they have legitimised.
From the article
" Jeremy Corbyn, who does not sing the national anthem and has spent 40 years consorting with apologists for terrorism and those who wish the UK harm........Corbyn is undoubtedly vulnerable (whatever he says now, the central charges are true) "
If you concede that point (which imho is a massive concession), then I don't know that any of the bullet points outlining the Tories faults as you see them make much of a difference.
Also on the flag I don't think Labour draping themselves in it would go down well with a lot of their supporters. Labour politicians in tanks waving Union flags would backfire badly in places like Liverpool and the university towns I would think. Would be very strange. And having Corbyn do it would be bizarre and look craven.
However, there's a new strain of thought emerging, whereby the wealthy in various parts of the world are identifying more by their lifestyle and wealth than location, due to ease of travel and the internet.
Loss of national identity fuelled by this at the top end and mass migration at the bottom end is a serious issue. I'm not saying May's approach was sensible, but this is something that concerns a lot of people.
The young/old dividing line is another serious fracture in politics.
We certainly live in turbulent times.
All else isn't equal right now though, and if there was an election tommorow I'd expect Labour to win both easily.
Perhaps it's just envy, but there is a perception that there is a set of individuals - and businesses - who don't have a stake in the country. I say this as someone on the right, but I don't like it when it hear the argument that a group of people of businesses will leave the country if country does something that they don't like.
Perhaps it's true, perhaps Brexit will damage the City and we'll all regret that. But I keep thinking, we really shouldn't be relying upon such people and businesses that can take flight at the first sign of trouble.
I say this as a Thatcherite who wants people to be able to take care of themselves. But we should always remember that we will always have to some form of nation state to set the parameters within which we work.
Rural, in the north. Precisely the sort of seat I expected the Tories to be winning (Bassetlaw for instance)
Utterly shocking performance from the blues there.
Cantrerbury, Leamington & Kensington all more explainable.
I know someone who has a letter from Margaret Thatcher's government telling him London is the place to invest as it is the gateway to the European Single Market.
"But if you believe you’re a citizen of the world, you’re a citizen of nowhere. You don’t understand what the very word ‘citizenship’ means."
In fact, I'd argue some Labour MPs in the late 1930s and early 1940s were more actively patriotic than even some Conservatives.
But, this sadly isn't the case with such figures as Corbyn and McDonnell.
Remember Osborne said it would be Wednesday when it all "collapses" for her...
https://thedisorderofthings.com/2016/11/28/citizens-of-nowhere/
Great minds think alike!
https://twitter.com/torcuil/status/874665592598474752
Personally, I think if we wanted expansion to work we needed to encourage the formation of a United States of Europe with the federal transfer of (a lot of) money from the rich to the poor with a view to levelling the living standards from Chelsea to Craiova. Alternatively, we should have vetoed the expansion.
What we've had for 13 years is neither one thing nor the other.
I worked for a while in Stoke on the fringes of the construction trade. Quite a few men in their 40's & 50's who had never been to london.
NEVER BEEN TO LONDON.
I was exotic because I came from a different part of the midlands.
*You can all insert your own joke here.
Denis Healey was at Anzio I think too.
You have freely admitted you wish to see the end of the UK with it being subsumed into a federal state.
Ken Clarke in his infamous interview said he looked forward to a day when Parliament was nothing more than a council chamber in Europe. Now whilst it is a perfectly right and proper to hold such views and to campaign for them, they are incompatible with the concept of patriotism and with the belief in national self determination and national sovereignty.
The big BUT of course is that there is nothing in principle wrong with that. You and I share different views of the value of the nation state and of its place in the maintenance of democratic freedoms. Whilst I think you are wrong that does not mean I think you are evil or even mildly naughty. Just that when it comes to the specific concept of patriotism one cannot be a patriot and still believe in the end of the nation state.
Please realise I am in no way critical of you for this. You are continually open about your pro federalist views and that is just as justified a world view as that of Westphalian Sovereignty. It is just not a view I share.
Conservative hold
LAB Bilal Mahmood 20638
CON Iain Duncan Smith 23076
LD Deborah Unger 2043
GRN Sinead King 1204
IDS had a 9000 lead cut by 2/3rds
https://twitter.com/steveballinger/status/874545895290941440
As I have said many times before what I don't understand are those who preach UK Independence from the EU but don't want to allow Scots Independence from the UK.
Last Thurs cheered me up immensely!
May underestimated Corbyn. PB Tories are doing the same now
I have been to Beijing and Shanghai, though
Mr. Stoke, let's stay in the EU, it'll stop our democracy working properly, isn't the best sales line.
Mr. Anorak, I have returned, but I'm a bit tired [still have more work to do] and it's a nuanced area so I'm just going to leave it.