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politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » The polling that should worry Mrs May and all Tories

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  • AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340

    On topic: If indeed it is the case that Theresa May has only a small or even no advantage over Jeremy Corbyn, then it's not Tories who need to be worried, it's the United Kingdom. Never before, in the 50 years or so that I've been following politics, has either main party put forward a more fantastical, incompetent, unprepared, economically illiterate, disunited, and dangerous - not to mention vile - front bench as Labour are proposing this time round. Perhaps voters have gone bonkers, but it seems unlikely. At least one hopes so.

    The Conservatives' main plank is hard right Brexit. You can understand why a lot of the public might choose a different backward-looking fantasy instead, in the absence of anyone putting forward a forward-looking prospectus rooted in reality.
  • SquareRootSquareRoot Posts: 7,095
    Jonathan said:

    Curious thought. If Tories win, all they done is won two extra years. That's it. Barely makes a difference really. Not even half another term.

    you wish....
  • ChrisChris Posts: 11,783
    glw said:

    Chris said:

    glw said:

    The concert has been brilliant. Sent out a message of unity, strength and love. That we won't be divided and we certainly won't go demonising anyone who is different or looking for a scapegoat.

    I don't agree with that. If terrorists carry out a Beslan like attack in London or Paris I suspect all the happy-clappy stuff would be straight in the bin.
    It rather depends how many people are too stupid to see that's the whole idea!
    You may not have noticed but over the last few years there has been repeated evidence of large populations acting in what might be described as an emotional rather than intellectual manner, with some fairly dramatic results.
    As I said, it depends how many people are stupid ...
  • SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 39,773

    On topic: If indeed it is the case that Theresa May has only a small or even no advantage over Jeremy Corbyn, then it's not Tories who need to be worried, it's the United Kingdom. Never before, in the 50 years or so that I've been following politics, has either main party put forward a more fantastical, incompetent, unprepared, economically illiterate, disunited, and dangerous - not to mention vile - front bench as Labour are proposing this time round. Perhaps voters have gone bonkers, but it seems unlikely. At least one hopes so.

    After Brexit anything is possible. Corbyn and May are very lucky to be facing each other. Both would have been crushed by better opponents.

  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 39,318
    Mortimer said:

    GIN1138 said:

    RobD said:

    GIN1138 said:

    RobD said:

    GIN1138 said:

    RobD said:

    Only four days to go until the exit poll is announced! I can just hear the bongs at ten now....

    I think the exit poll is probably the best part of the whole night for me...
    I'm in a bit of a pickle. The time lag on iPlayer is ~1 minute. Do I just not look at PB for a whole minute? Not sure I can manage that.... :p
    You have to... You can't ruin the drama of the Big Ben Bongs by logging on to PB...
    I (somehow) managed in 2015....
    I remember my jaw dropping when I saw what the exit poll was projecting in 2015! ;|)
    My shouted air punch was audible 3 streets away, I reckon....
    Yes same here lol.
  • midwintermidwinter Posts: 1,112
    Chameleon said:

    On topic: If indeed it is the case that Theresa May has only a small or even no advantage over Jeremy Corbyn, then it's not Tories who need to be worried, it's the United Kingdom. Never before, in the 50 years or so that I've been following politics, has either main party put forward a more fantastical, incompetent, unprepared, economically illiterate, disunited, and dangerous - not to mention vile - front bench as Labour are proposing this time round. Perhaps voters have gone bonkers, but it seems unlikely. At least one hopes so.

    May's nowhere near squeaky clean either.
    How so? Genuine question.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,546
    Apparently the bystander shot in the crossfire, was shot in the head !!!
  • RobDRobD Posts: 60,145

    Apparently the bystander shot in the crossfire, was shot in the head !!!

    Did they die? I saw reports saying they were only injured. :(
  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 21,768

    Jonathan said:

    Curious thought. If Tories win, all they done is won two extra years. That's it. Barely makes a difference really. Not even half another term.

    you wish....
    They have plans to extend the maximum term beyond five years? Gosh.
  • MarkSeniorMarkSenior Posts: 4,699

    On topic: If indeed it is the case that Theresa May has only a small or even no advantage over Jeremy Corbyn, then it's not Tories who need to be worried, it's the United Kingdom. Never before, in the 50 years or so that I've been following politics, has either main party put forward a more fantastical, incompetent, unprepared, economically illiterate, disunited, and dangerous - not to mention vile - front bench as Labour are proposing this time round. Perhaps voters have gone bonkers, but it seems unlikely. At least one hopes so.

    and the positive reasons for voting Conservatives are ................... none
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 120,350

    Mail know who one of the terrorist was....

    One of the jihadis who terrorised London with two assailants before being shot dead by police tricked his neighbours into believing he was a nice guy by playing football with their children on the nearby green.

    Secretly, he was harbouring a destructive hatred and frequently changing his appearance in preparation of unleashing a deadly attack on the capital city during which seven people died and up to 50 were injured last night.

    The killer, who MailOnline is not naming because of operational reasons on the request of the police, lived in a block of flats in Barking and also played table tennis with youngsters.

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4570950/Footage-shows-London-Bridge-terrorists-Borough-Market.html

    So he's an Arsenal fan.

    First Osama bin Laden, now this chap, why do Arsenal attract all the lunatic terrorists?
  • sealo0sealo0 Posts: 48

    Apparently the bystander shot in the crossfire, was shot in the head !!!

    "In the hand" as pre reporter outside King Hospital
  • glwglw Posts: 10,006
    Chris said:

    glw said:

    You may not have noticed but over the last few years there has been repeated evidence of large populations acting in what might be described as an emotional rather than intellectual manner, with some fairly dramatic results.

    As I said, it depends how many people are stupid ...
    You can call it stupid, or you can call it human nature. But I've no doubt that our tolerance has a threshold and that Islamic State wants to both find and pass that threshold.
  • SaltireSaltire Posts: 525
    Alistair said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Mortimer said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Mortimer said:

    So, after much tinkering, I've just finalised my model's prediction for the GE:

    CON: 377
    LAB: 198
    SNP: 45
    LD: 6
    Others: 24

    Of the 47 expected Tory gains I'm happy to report, without too much tinkering, that TP's Don Valley is listed.... Good luck Aaron!!

    I don't think that's an unreasonable estimate. Could I ask how your LD seats come out?

    I think they'll get 3/4 in Scotland.
    Plus Ceredgion.

    And then I'd reckon another 2-6 in England. To give me a range of 6 (at the low end), to 11 at the high.
    Course. I have those 6 as:

    Westmorland & Lonsdale
    Dunbartonshire East
    Orkney & Shetland
    Ceredigion
    Leeds North West
    Sheffield Hallam

    BUT:

    Edinburgh West
    Caithness, Sutherland & Easter Ross
    Fife North East

    Are all projected LD second and without MOE....
    I think Edinburgh West is by far the most likely LibDem gain in the country. Look at the results in the locals last month: they topped the poll in all three wards in constituency, and managed over 50% in the biggest (Almond). Sure, turnout will be down, but tactical voting will be up.

    I know I've mentioned it a lot but the Almond result is astonishing in its proportions. In a 4 member STV ward with 10 candidates to bust 50% of the vote, 40% for a single candidate is nuts.
    And the number of votes in the ward was something like 15K IIRC so it was a sizeable chunk of the whole constituency.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,546
    edited June 2017
    sealo0 said:

    Apparently the bystander shot in the crossfire, was shot in the head !!!

    "In the hand" as pre reporter outside King Hospital
    A bystander was shot in the head after they were caught in the police crossfire and the incident is being investigated by the Independent Police Complaints Commission, the Metropolitan Police revealed today

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4570950/Footage-shows-London-Bridge-terrorists-Borough-Market.html

    That will be a bloody awful typo from the Mail if true.
  • isamisam Posts: 41,118
    glw said:

    The concert has been brilliant. Sent out a message of unity, strength and love. That we won't be divided and we certainly won't go demonising anyone who is different or looking for a scapegoat.

    I don't agree with that. If terrorists carry out a Beslan like attack in London or Paris I suspect all the happy-clappy stuff would be straight in the bin.
    Proof of division :lol:
  • FF43FF43 Posts: 17,409
    edited June 2017
    rcs1000 said:

    glw said:

    Farron's performance against Neil won't have helped. He has had a dreadful campaign.

    He was a poor choice from a very limited pool. Lamb would have been a least a little better.
    A little - but unlikely now to hold his Norfolk seat.

    It is very hard to see who will replace Farron - the pool will be very small.
    Jo Swinson, if she wins East Dunbartonshire (which I think is the least likely of the potential Scottish gains for the LDs).

    Nick Clegg, if he holds Sheffield Hallam (which I suspect he will).
    Nick Clegg if he's available and willing. He has ideas that he can articulate, which is what the Lib Dems need right now. There's a space for an internationalist, business friendly, liberal, social market party, as both Labour and the Conservatives have abandoned that space. This would be the Liberals going back to their 19C roots
  • ChameleonChameleon Posts: 4,264

    On topic: If indeed it is the case that Theresa May has only a small or even no advantage over Jeremy Corbyn, then it's not Tories who need to be worried, it's the United Kingdom. Never before, in the 50 years or so that I've been following politics, has either main party put forward a more fantastical, incompetent, unprepared, economically illiterate, disunited, and dangerous - not to mention vile - front bench as Labour are proposing this time round. Perhaps voters have gone bonkers, but it seems unlikely. At least one hopes so.

    After Brexit anything is possible. Corbyn and May are very lucky to be facing each other. Both would have been crushed by better opponents.

    Agreed.
  • Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 30,822

    The Conservatives' main plank is hard right Brexit. You can understand why a lot of the public might choose a different backward-looking fantasy instead, in the absence of anyone putting forward a forward-looking prospectus rooted in reality.

    Not really. 52% of voters chose Brexit. That might have been a mistake, and it was certainly a high-risk decision, but it wasn't the Conservatives who made this choice. Theresa May has, very reasonably, gone for a policy of making the best of this democratic decision. Labour under Jeremy Corbyn seems to half-agree, so that isn't the dividing line
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 39,318

    Apparently the bystander shot in the crossfire, was shot in the head !!!

    Oh dear, I hope the person will or has already recovered.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 29,469

    Mail know who one of the terrorist was....

    One of the jihadis who terrorised London with two assailants before being shot dead by police tricked his neighbours into believing he was a nice guy by playing football with their children on the nearby green.

    Secretly, he was harbouring a destructive hatred and frequently changing his appearance in preparation of unleashing a deadly attack on the capital city during which seven people died and up to 50 were injured last night.

    The killer, who MailOnline is not naming because of operational reasons on the request of the police, lived in a block of flats in Barking and also played table tennis with youngsters.

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4570950/Footage-shows-London-Bridge-terrorists-Borough-Market.html

    So he's an Arsenal fan.

    First Osama bin Laden, now this chap, why do Arsenal attract all the lunatic terrorists?

    Mail know who one of the terrorist was....

    One of the jihadis who terrorised London with two assailants before being shot dead by police tricked his neighbours into believing he was a nice guy by playing football with their children on the nearby green.

    Secretly, he was harbouring a destructive hatred and frequently changing his appearance in preparation of unleashing a deadly attack on the capital city during which seven people died and up to 50 were injured last night.

    The killer, who MailOnline is not naming because of operational reasons on the request of the police, lived in a block of flats in Barking and also played table tennis with youngsters.

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4570950/Footage-shows-London-Bridge-terrorists-Borough-Market.html

    So he's an Arsenal fan.

    First Osama bin Laden, now this chap, why do Arsenal attract all the lunatic terrorists?
    ...like Corbyn?
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,546

    Mail know who one of the terrorist was....

    One of the jihadis who terrorised London with two assailants before being shot dead by police tricked his neighbours into believing he was a nice guy by playing football with their children on the nearby green.

    Secretly, he was harbouring a destructive hatred and frequently changing his appearance in preparation of unleashing a deadly attack on the capital city during which seven people died and up to 50 were injured last night.

    The killer, who MailOnline is not naming because of operational reasons on the request of the police, lived in a block of flats in Barking and also played table tennis with youngsters.

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4570950/Footage-shows-London-Bridge-terrorists-Borough-Market.html

    So he's an Arsenal fan.

    First Osama bin Laden, now this chap, why do Arsenal attract all the lunatic terrorists?

    Mail know who one of the terrorist was....

    One of the jihadis who terrorised London with two assailants before being shot dead by police tricked his neighbours into believing he was a nice guy by playing football with their children on the nearby green.

    Secretly, he was harbouring a destructive hatred and frequently changing his appearance in preparation of unleashing a deadly attack on the capital city during which seven people died and up to 50 were injured last night.

    The killer, who MailOnline is not naming because of operational reasons on the request of the police, lived in a block of flats in Barking and also played table tennis with youngsters.

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4570950/Footage-shows-London-Bridge-terrorists-Borough-Market.html

    So he's an Arsenal fan.

    First Osama bin Laden, now this chap, why do Arsenal attract all the lunatic terrorists?
    ...like Corbyn?
    I was thinking Piers Morgan...
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 22,761

    On topic: If indeed it is the case that Theresa May has only a small or even no advantage over Jeremy Corbyn, then it's not Tories who need to be worried, it's the United Kingdom. Never before, in the 50 years or so that I've been following politics, has either main party put forward a more fantastical, incompetent, unprepared, economically illiterate, disunited, and dangerous - not to mention vile - front bench as Labour are proposing this time round. Perhaps voters have gone bonkers, but it seems unlikely. At least one hopes so.

    There is a real opportunity at this election to go in a different direction.

    I for one welcome the opportunity.

    I think TM will win but it is good not to hear they're all the same on the doorstep.

    At the end of the day we live in a democracy and people do have a real choice between more me me me or something entirely different.
  • foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548

    Mail know who one of the terrorist was....

    One of the jihadis who terrorised London with two assailants before being shot dead by police tricked his neighbours into believing he was a nice guy by playing football with their children on the nearby green.

    Secretly, he was harbouring a destructive hatred and frequently changing his appearance in preparation of unleashing a deadly attack on the capital city during which seven people died and up to 50 were injured last night.

    The killer, who MailOnline is not naming because of operational reasons on the request of the police, lived in a block of flats in Barking and also played table tennis with youngsters.

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4570950/Footage-shows-London-Bridge-terrorists-Borough-Market.html

    So he's an Arsenal fan.

    First Osama bin Laden, now this chap, why do Arsenal attract all the lunatic terrorists?

    Mail know who one of the terrorist was....

    One of the jihadis who terrorised London with two assailants before being shot dead by police tricked his neighbours into believing he was a nice guy by playing football with their children on the nearby green.

    Secretly, he was harbouring a destructive hatred and frequently changing his appearance in preparation of unleashing a deadly attack on the capital city during which seven people died and up to 50 were injured last night.

    The killer, who MailOnline is not naming because of operational reasons on the request of the police, lived in a block of flats in Barking and also played table tennis with youngsters.

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4570950/Footage-shows-London-Bridge-terrorists-Borough-Market.html

    So he's an Arsenal fan.

    First Osama bin Laden, now this chap, why do Arsenal attract all the lunatic terrorists?
    ...like Corbyn?
    A pattern is emerging.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 60,145

    On topic: If indeed it is the case that Theresa May has only a small or even no advantage over Jeremy Corbyn, then it's not Tories who need to be worried, it's the United Kingdom. Never before, in the 50 years or so that I've been following politics, has either main party put forward a more fantastical, incompetent, unprepared, economically illiterate, disunited, and dangerous - not to mention vile - front bench as Labour are proposing this time round. Perhaps voters have gone bonkers, but it seems unlikely. At least one hopes so.

    There is a real opportunity at this election to go in a different direction.

    I for one welcome the opportunity.

    I think TM will win but it is good not to hear they're all the same on the doorstep.

    At the end of the day we live in a democracy and people do have a real choice between more me me me or something entirely different.
    Isn't Labour's platform all about "me me me"? A bung for middle class student. Keeping WFA for rich pensioners etc. etc.
  • Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 30,822

    On topic: If indeed it is the case that Theresa May has only a small or even no advantage over Jeremy Corbyn, then it's not Tories who need to be worried, it's the United Kingdom. Never before, in the 50 years or so that I've been following politics, has either main party put forward a more fantastical, incompetent, unprepared, economically illiterate, disunited, and dangerous - not to mention vile - front bench as Labour are proposing this time round. Perhaps voters have gone bonkers, but it seems unlikely. At least one hopes so.

    and the positive reasons for voting Conservatives are ................... none
    Plenty. Good governance, sound finances, a sensible approach to funding adult social care, getting immigration back down to sensible levels, improving education, keeping the economy on track - what could conceivably be more positive than that?
  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 21,768

    The Conservatives' main plank is hard right Brexit. You can understand why a lot of the public might choose a different backward-looking fantasy instead, in the absence of anyone putting forward a forward-looking prospectus rooted in reality.

    Not really. 52% of voters chose Brexit. That might have been a mistake, and it was certainly a high-risk decision, but it wasn't the Conservatives who made this choice. Theresa May has, very reasonably, gone for a policy of making the best of this democratic decision. Labour under Jeremy Corbyn seems to half-agree, so that isn't the dividing line
    What's clear is that the Tories now own Brexit, for good or ill.
  • sealo0sealo0 Posts: 48
    BBC just had Hugh Pym outside King's hospital and did not report anything.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,528
    edited June 2017

    glw said:

    The concert has been brilliant. Sent out a message of unity, strength and love. That we won't be divided and we certainly won't go demonising anyone who is different or looking for a scapegoat.

    I don't agree with that. If terrorists carry out a Beslan like attack in London or Paris I suspect all the happy-clappy stuff would be straight in the bin.
    Why?

    The French did not go all fascist, why would we if the same happened?

    The concert was not my cup of tea for a variety of reasons, but clearly a healing moment for many in Manchester

    Highly recommended to ward off PTSD. Get back on the horse is the modern advice. So good for the young people, and good for Ms.Grande. (in both senses).
  • MortimerMortimer Posts: 14,158
    RobD said:

    On topic: If indeed it is the case that Theresa May has only a small or even no advantage over Jeremy Corbyn, then it's not Tories who need to be worried, it's the United Kingdom. Never before, in the 50 years or so that I've been following politics, has either main party put forward a more fantastical, incompetent, unprepared, economically illiterate, disunited, and dangerous - not to mention vile - front bench as Labour are proposing this time round. Perhaps voters have gone bonkers, but it seems unlikely. At least one hopes so.

    There is a real opportunity at this election to go in a different direction.

    I for one welcome the opportunity.

    I think TM will win but it is good not to hear they're all the same on the doorstep.

    At the end of the day we live in a democracy and people do have a real choice between more me me me or something entirely different.
    Isn't Labour's platform all about "me me me"? A bung for middle class student. Keeping WFA for rich pensioners etc. etc.
    You missed out jobs for all the union boys...
  • RobDRobD Posts: 60,145
    Jonathan said:

    The Conservatives' main plank is hard right Brexit. You can understand why a lot of the public might choose a different backward-looking fantasy instead, in the absence of anyone putting forward a forward-looking prospectus rooted in reality.

    Not really. 52% of voters chose Brexit. That might have been a mistake, and it was certainly a high-risk decision, but it wasn't the Conservatives who made this choice. Theresa May has, very reasonably, gone for a policy of making the best of this democratic decision. Labour under Jeremy Corbyn seems to half-agree, so that isn't the dividing line
    What's clear is that the Tories now own Brexit, for good or ill.
    How wasn't it clear before? They are the party that is going to implement it.
  • Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 30,822
    edited June 2017
    Jonathan said:

    The Conservatives' main plank is hard right Brexit. You can understand why a lot of the public might choose a different backward-looking fantasy instead, in the absence of anyone putting forward a forward-looking prospectus rooted in reality.

    Not really. 52% of voters chose Brexit. That might have been a mistake, and it was certainly a high-risk decision, but it wasn't the Conservatives who made this choice. Theresa May has, very reasonably, gone for a policy of making the best of this democratic decision. Labour under Jeremy Corbyn seems to half-agree, so that isn't the dividing line
    What's clear is that the Tories now own Brexit, for good or ill.
    The Tories own everything. They are the only one of the two main parties even pretending to offer a programme for government (and the smaller parties have largely disappeared). So, yes, you are right.
  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 21,768
    edited June 2017

    On topic: If indeed it is the case that Theresa May has only a small or even no advantage over Jeremy Corbyn, then it's not Tories who need to be worried, it's the United Kingdom. Never before, in the 50 years or so that I've been following politics, has either main party put forward a more fantastical, incompetent, unprepared, economically illiterate, disunited, and dangerous - not to mention vile - front bench as Labour are proposing this time round. Perhaps voters have gone bonkers, but it seems unlikely. At least one hopes so.

    and the positive reasons for voting Conservatives are ................... none
    Plenty. Good governance, sound finances, a sensible approach to funding adult social care, getting immigration back down to sensible levels, improving education, keeping the economy on track - what could conceivably be more positive than that?
    Hmm. policy changes by the week and bad headline. Debt up. AAA lost. Immigration up. That's the Tory record.

  • isamisam Posts: 41,118

    Mail know who one of the terrorist was....

    One of the jihadis who terrorised London with two assailants before being shot dead by police tricked his neighbours into believing he was a nice guy by playing football with their children on the nearby green.

    Secretly, he was harbouring a destructive hatred and frequently changing his appearance in preparation of unleashing a deadly attack on the capital city during which seven people died and up to 50 were injured last night.

    The killer, who MailOnline is not naming because of operational reasons on the request of the police, lived in a block of flats in Barking and also played table tennis with youngsters.

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4570950/Footage-shows-London-Bridge-terrorists-Borough-Market.html

    Although I always knew East London was v ISIS friendly, and always had slight anxiety on the train n the way to the city (via Barking, West Ham, Limehouse), actually knowing jihadis live 8 mins away is v scary

    A weird weekend. One of our schoolmates commited suicide Friday, now I live next door to terrorists
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 120,350

    Mail know who one of the terrorist was....

    One of the jihadis who terrorised London with two assailants before being shot dead by police tricked his neighbours into believing he was a nice guy by playing football with their children on the nearby green.

    Secretly, he was harbouring a destructive hatred and frequently changing his appearance in preparation of unleashing a deadly attack on the capital city during which seven people died and up to 50 were injured last night.

    The killer, who MailOnline is not naming because of operational reasons on the request of the police, lived in a block of flats in Barking and also played table tennis with youngsters.

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4570950/Footage-shows-London-Bridge-terrorists-Borough-Market.html

    So he's an Arsenal fan.

    First Osama bin Laden, now this chap, why do Arsenal attract all the lunatic terrorists?

    Mail know who one of the terrorist was....

    One of the jihadis who terrorised London with two assailants before being shot dead by police tricked his neighbours into believing he was a nice guy by playing football with their children on the nearby green.

    Secretly, he was harbouring a destructive hatred and frequently changing his appearance in preparation of unleashing a deadly attack on the capital city during which seven people died and up to 50 were injured last night.

    The killer, who MailOnline is not naming because of operational reasons on the request of the police, lived in a block of flats in Barking and also played table tennis with youngsters.

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4570950/Footage-shows-London-Bridge-terrorists-Borough-Market.html

    So he's an Arsenal fan.

    First Osama bin Laden, now this chap, why do Arsenal attract all the lunatic terrorists?
    ...like Corbyn?
    I was thinking Piers Morgan...
    Time to proscribe Arsenal Football Club.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,528

    On topic: If indeed it is the case that Theresa May has only a small or even no advantage over Jeremy Corbyn, then it's not Tories who need to be worried, it's the United Kingdom. Never before, in the 50 years or so that I've been following politics, has either main party put forward a more fantastical, incompetent, unprepared, economically illiterate, disunited, and dangerous - not to mention vile - front bench as Labour are proposing this time round. Perhaps voters have gone bonkers, but it seems unlikely. At least one hopes so.

    and the positive reasons for voting Conservatives are ................... none
    Plenty. Good governance, sound finances, a sensible approach to funding adult social care, getting immigration back down to sensible levels, improving education, keeping the economy on track - what could conceivably be more positive than that?
    All fine and dandy. Very few specifics of how we get from here to there, though.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 53,257

    On topic: If indeed it is the case that Theresa May has only a small or even no advantage over Jeremy Corbyn, then it's not Tories who need to be worried, it's the United Kingdom. Never before, in the 50 years or so that I've been following politics, has either main party put forward a more fantastical, incompetent, unprepared, economically illiterate, disunited, and dangerous - not to mention vile - front bench as Labour are proposing this time round. Perhaps voters have gone bonkers, but it seems unlikely. At least one hopes so.

    Well said.. If Labour win.. there is no hope for the UK. I will be the one turning out the light as the last person. to leave the Uk. Anyone else who doesn't is a fool... and YES I will leave the UK and I know where I will go to.
    Corbyn in the Sun's lightbulb on Thursday?
  • RobDRobD Posts: 60,145
    Jonathan said:

    On topic: If indeed it is the case that Theresa May has only a small or even no advantage over Jeremy Corbyn, then it's not Tories who need to be worried, it's the United Kingdom. Never before, in the 50 years or so that I've been following politics, has either main party put forward a more fantastical, incompetent, unprepared, economically illiterate, disunited, and dangerous - not to mention vile - front bench as Labour are proposing this time round. Perhaps voters have gone bonkers, but it seems unlikely. At least one hopes so.

    and the positive reasons for voting Conservatives are ................... none
    Plenty. Good governance, sound finances, a sensible approach to funding adult social care, getting immigration back down to sensible levels, improving education, keeping the economy on track - what could conceivably be more positive than that?
    Hmm. policy changes by the week and bad headline. Debt up. AAA lost. Immigration up. That's the Tory record.

    Of course debt is up, or are you proposing that the deficit should have been cut to zero in the first year?
  • FloaterFloater Posts: 14,207

    On topic: If indeed it is the case that Theresa May has only a small or even no advantage over Jeremy Corbyn, then it's not Tories who need to be worried, it's the United Kingdom. Never before, in the 50 years or so that I've been following politics, has either main party put forward a more fantastical, incompetent, unprepared, economically illiterate, disunited, and dangerous - not to mention vile - front bench as Labour are proposing this time round. Perhaps voters have gone bonkers, but it seems unlikely. At least one hopes so.

    and the positive reasons for voting Conservatives are ................... none
    You think your going to win back Colchester Mark?

    Libs have most boards but I just can't see it.

    Not sure they are even trying that hard but I think the "busiest" councillor may have lost his seat at last elections if I understood his facebook post correctly.

    Amusingly he was so involved in our locale I thought he was my councillor, when I went to vote it was a woman who I had never personally seen or heard do anything - but I had seen a pic of her pointing at a pothole!

    The guy though is an absolute legend and a credit to your party.
  • nunununu Posts: 6,024

    glw said:

    Farron's performance against Neil won't have helped. He has had a dreadful campaign.

    He was a poor choice from a very limited pool. Lamb would have been a least a little better.
    A little - but unlikely now to hold his Norfolk seat.

    It is very hard to see who will replace Farron - the pool will be very small.
    Britain elects makes him a near cert as hold.

    http://britainelects.com/nowcast/

    I think their 354 number is not far off, but I would give them a handful more.
    They are predicting 29% of the tory gains to come from Scotland. Dissappointing for them.
  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 21,768

    Jonathan said:

    The Conservatives' main plank is hard right Brexit. You can understand why a lot of the public might choose a different backward-looking fantasy instead, in the absence of anyone putting forward a forward-looking prospectus rooted in reality.

    Not really. 52% of voters chose Brexit. That might have been a mistake, and it was certainly a high-risk decision, but it wasn't the Conservatives who made this choice. Theresa May has, very reasonably, gone for a policy of making the best of this democratic decision. Labour under Jeremy Corbyn seems to half-agree, so that isn't the dividing line
    What's clear is that the Tories now own Brexit, for good or ill.
    The Tories own everything. They are the only one of the two main parties even pretending to offer a programme for government (and the smaller parties have largely disappeared). So, yes, you are right.
    Whoever wins this election is in for trouble. It's 92 or 05 times one thousand.
  • SaltireSaltire Posts: 525
    rcs1000 said:

    glw said:

    Farron's performance against Neil won't have helped. He has had a dreadful campaign.

    He was a poor choice from a very limited pool. Lamb would have been a least a little better.
    A little - but unlikely now to hold his Norfolk seat.

    It is very hard to see who will replace Farron - the pool will be very small.
    Jo Swinson, if she wins East Dunbartonshire (which I think is the least likely of the potential Scottish gains for the LDs).

    Nick Clegg, if he holds Sheffield Hallam (which I suspect he will).
    I think that Jo would be pressured to stand if she was elected next week and Farron decided to stand down. She is likely to be the only female who could credibly be the leader (The ladies who are standing in NE Fife and Edin West would both be 1st time MPs and none of plausible gains in England are likely to lead to women being elected) and since the party has never had a female leader before I'm sure the members would like the opportunity to elect one.
  • MikeLMikeL Posts: 7,736
    Jonathan said:

    Curious thought. If Tories win, all they done is won two extra years. That's it. Barely makes a difference really. Not even half another term.

    If they get a decent majority they pretty well guarantee the boundary changes.

    Whereas previously they were maybe 50/50.
  • Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 30,822
    dixiedean said:

    On topic: If indeed it is the case that Theresa May has only a small or even no advantage over Jeremy Corbyn, then it's not Tories who need to be worried, it's the United Kingdom. Never before, in the 50 years or so that I've been following politics, has either main party put forward a more fantastical, incompetent, unprepared, economically illiterate, disunited, and dangerous - not to mention vile - front bench as Labour are proposing this time round. Perhaps voters have gone bonkers, but it seems unlikely. At least one hopes so.

    and the positive reasons for voting Conservatives are ................... none
    Plenty. Good governance, sound finances, a sensible approach to funding adult social care, getting immigration back down to sensible levels, improving education, keeping the economy on track - what could conceivably be more positive than that?
    All fine and dandy. Very few specifics of how we get from here to there, though.
    Actually, the problem was the opposite. Mrs May's mistake was to be to specific in the manifesto.
  • Ishmael_ZIshmael_Z Posts: 8,981

    Ishmael_Z said:

    The concert has been brilliant. Sent out a message of unity, strength and love. That we won't be divided and we certainly won't go demonising anyone who is different or looking for a scapegoat.

    Are you characterising Muslims as "different"? In what way "different"? Different from you? Different from what they should be? Different from Christians? It's unusual to see the inherent racism of the UK left so explicitly stated (except of course where Jews are involved).
    I have to say I think this comment from you takes the biscuit for twisting both the words and the sentiment of what Apocalypse has said. Kind of unnecessary and reflects poorly on you.
    Yeah sorry, but the implication that there is a move afoot to demonise and scapegoat in her post is sanctimonious point scoring. No one is proposing such a thing, it's not what we as a country do, and it doesn't need a concert in Manchester to establish the fact.
  • OUTOUT Posts: 569

    On topic: If indeed it is the case that Theresa May has only a small or even no advantage over Jeremy Corbyn, then it's not Tories who need to be worried, it's the United Kingdom. Never before, in the 50 years or so that I've been following politics, has either main party put forward a more fantastical, incompetent, unprepared, economically illiterate, disunited, and dangerous - not to mention vile - front bench as Labour are proposing this time round. Perhaps voters have gone bonkers, but it seems unlikely. At least one hopes so.

    and the positive reasons for voting Conservatives are ................... none
    Plenty. Good governance, sound finances, a sensible approach to funding adult social care, getting immigration back down to sensible levels, improving education, keeping the economy on track - what could conceivably be more positive than that?
    Being able to walk around town, go to a concert/pub/restaurant without being mown down or stabbed.
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 22,761
    RobD said:

    On topic: If indeed it is the case that Theresa May has only a small or even no advantage over Jeremy Corbyn, then it's not Tories who need to be worried, it's the United Kingdom. Never before, in the 50 years or so that I've been following politics, has either main party put forward a more fantastical, incompetent, unprepared, economically illiterate, disunited, and dangerous - not to mention vile - front bench as Labour are proposing this time round. Perhaps voters have gone bonkers, but it seems unlikely. At least one hopes so.

    There is a real opportunity at this election to go in a different direction.

    I for one welcome the opportunity.

    I think TM will win but it is good not to hear they're all the same on the doorstep.

    At the end of the day we live in a democracy and people do have a real choice between more me me me or something entirely different.
    Isn't Labour's platform all about "me me me"? A bung for middle class student. Keeping WFA for rich pensioners etc. etc.
    RobD said:

    On topic: If indeed it is the case that Theresa May has only a small or even no advantage over Jeremy Corbyn, then it's not Tories who need to be worried, it's the United Kingdom. Never before, in the 50 years or so that I've been following politics, has either main party put forward a more fantastical, incompetent, unprepared, economically illiterate, disunited, and dangerous - not to mention vile - front bench as Labour are proposing this time round. Perhaps voters have gone bonkers, but it seems unlikely. At least one hopes so.

    There is a real opportunity at this election to go in a different direction.

    I for one welcome the opportunity.

    I think TM will win but it is good not to hear they're all the same on the doorstep.

    At the end of the day we live in a democracy and people do have a real choice between more me me me or something entirely different.
    Isn't Labour's platform all about "me me me"? A bung for middle class student. Keeping WFA for rich pensioners etc. etc.
    I agree with one Tory policy TBF getting rid of the triple lock.

    It's about time pensioners did their bit to fund tax cuts for the wealthiest.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 60,145
    Jonathan said:

    Jonathan said:

    The Conservatives' main plank is hard right Brexit. You can understand why a lot of the public might choose a different backward-looking fantasy instead, in the absence of anyone putting forward a forward-looking prospectus rooted in reality.

    Not really. 52% of voters chose Brexit. That might have been a mistake, and it was certainly a high-risk decision, but it wasn't the Conservatives who made this choice. Theresa May has, very reasonably, gone for a policy of making the best of this democratic decision. Labour under Jeremy Corbyn seems to half-agree, so that isn't the dividing line
    What's clear is that the Tories now own Brexit, for good or ill.
    The Tories own everything. They are the only one of the two main parties even pretending to offer a programme for government (and the smaller parties have largely disappeared). So, yes, you are right.
    Whoever wins this election is in for trouble. It's 92 or 05 times one thousand.
    Remind me what was said in 2010....
  • FloaterFloater Posts: 14,207

    Mail know who one of the terrorist was....

    One of the jihadis who terrorised London with two assailants before being shot dead by police tricked his neighbours into believing he was a nice guy by playing football with their children on the nearby green.

    Secretly, he was harbouring a destructive hatred and frequently changing his appearance in preparation of unleashing a deadly attack on the capital city during which seven people died and up to 50 were injured last night.

    The killer, who MailOnline is not naming because of operational reasons on the request of the police, lived in a block of flats in Barking and also played table tennis with youngsters.

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4570950/Footage-shows-London-Bridge-terrorists-Borough-Market.html

    So he's an Arsenal fan.

    First Osama bin Laden, now this chap, why do Arsenal attract all the lunatic terrorists?

    Mail know who one of the terrorist was....

    One of the jihadis who terrorised London with two assailants before being shot dead by police tricked his neighbours into believing he was a nice guy by playing football with their children on the nearby green.

    Secretly, he was harbouring a destructive hatred and frequently changing his appearance in preparation of unleashing a deadly attack on the capital city during which seven people died and up to 50 were injured last night.

    The killer, who MailOnline is not naming because of operational reasons on the request of the police, lived in a block of flats in Barking and also played table tennis with youngsters.

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4570950/Footage-shows-London-Bridge-terrorists-Borough-Market.html

    So he's an Arsenal fan.

    First Osama bin Laden, now this chap, why do Arsenal attract all the lunatic terrorists?
    ...like Corbyn?
    I was thinking Piers Morgan...
    Time to proscribe Arsenal Football Club.
    I could go for that :-)
  • RobDRobD Posts: 60,145

    RobD said:

    On topic: If indeed it is the case that Theresa May has only a small or even no advantage over Jeremy Corbyn, then it's not Tories who need to be worried, it's the United Kingdom. Never before, in the 50 years or so that I've been following politics, has either main party put forward a more fantastical, incompetent, unprepared, economically illiterate, disunited, and dangerous - not to mention vile - front bench as Labour are proposing this time round. Perhaps voters have gone bonkers, but it seems unlikely. At least one hopes so.

    There is a real opportunity at this election to go in a different direction.

    I for one welcome the opportunity.

    I think TM will win but it is good not to hear they're all the same on the doorstep.

    At the end of the day we live in a democracy and people do have a real choice between more me me me or something entirely different.
    Isn't Labour's platform all about "me me me"? A bung for middle class student. Keeping WFA for rich pensioners etc. etc.
    RobD said:

    On topic: If indeed it is the case that Theresa May has only a small or even no advantage over Jeremy Corbyn, then it's not Tories who need to be worried, it's the United Kingdom. Never before, in the 50 years or so that I've been following politics, has either main party put forward a more fantastical, incompetent, unprepared, economically illiterate, disunited, and dangerous - not to mention vile - front bench as Labour are proposing this time round. Perhaps voters have gone bonkers, but it seems unlikely. At least one hopes so.

    There is a real opportunity at this election to go in a different direction.

    I for one welcome the opportunity.

    I think TM will win but it is good not to hear they're all the same on the doorstep.

    At the end of the day we live in a democracy and people do have a real choice between more me me me or something entirely different.
    Isn't Labour's platform all about "me me me"? A bung for middle class student. Keeping WFA for rich pensioners etc. etc.
    I agree with one Tory policy TBF getting rid of the triple lock.

    It's about time pensioners did their bit to fund tax cuts for the wealthiest.
    But you support giving millionaire pensioners WFA?
  • FF43FF43 Posts: 17,409
    RobD said:

    Jonathan said:

    The Conservatives' main plank is hard right Brexit. You can understand why a lot of the public might choose a different backward-looking fantasy instead, in the absence of anyone putting forward a forward-looking prospectus rooted in reality.

    Not really. 52% of voters chose Brexit. That might have been a mistake, and it was certainly a high-risk decision, but it wasn't the Conservatives who made this choice. Theresa May has, very reasonably, gone for a policy of making the best of this democratic decision. Labour under Jeremy Corbyn seems to half-agree, so that isn't the dividing line
    What's clear is that the Tories now own Brexit, for good or ill.
    How wasn't it clear before? They are the party that is going to implement it.
    Brexit looks like it's going to be a quagmire. At least, Theresa May is not doing anything to prevent us getting stuck..
  • ChameleonChameleon Posts: 4,264
    isam said:

    Mail know who one of the terrorist was....

    One of the jihadis who terrorised London with two assailants before being shot dead by police tricked his neighbours into believing he was a nice guy by playing football with their children on the nearby green.

    Secretly, he was harbouring a destructive hatred and frequently changing his appearance in preparation of unleashing a deadly attack on the capital city during which seven people died and up to 50 were injured last night.

    The killer, who MailOnline is not naming because of operational reasons on the request of the police, lived in a block of flats in Barking and also played table tennis with youngsters.

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4570950/Footage-shows-London-Bridge-terrorists-Borough-Market.html

    Although I always knew East London was v ISIS friendly, and always had slight anxiety on the train n the way to the city (via Barking, West Ham, Limehouse), actually knowing jihadis live 8 mins away is v scary

    A weird weekend. One of our schoolmates commited suicide Friday, now I live next door to terrorists
    Sounds like a rough weekend, sorry about that. Time to go to the Winchester for a metaphorical pint, and wait for it all blow over?
  • FloaterFloater Posts: 14,207
    Jonathan said:

    On topic: If indeed it is the case that Theresa May has only a small or even no advantage over Jeremy Corbyn, then it's not Tories who need to be worried, it's the United Kingdom. Never before, in the 50 years or so that I've been following politics, has either main party put forward a more fantastical, incompetent, unprepared, economically illiterate, disunited, and dangerous - not to mention vile - front bench as Labour are proposing this time round. Perhaps voters have gone bonkers, but it seems unlikely. At least one hopes so.

    and the positive reasons for voting Conservatives are ................... none
    Plenty. Good governance, sound finances, a sensible approach to funding adult social care, getting immigration back down to sensible levels, improving education, keeping the economy on track - what could conceivably be more positive than that?
    Hmm. policy changes by the week and bad headline. Debt up. AAA lost. Immigration up. That's the Tory record.

    Yet at the same time you scream about austerity - hypocrite much?
  • RobDRobD Posts: 60,145
    edited June 2017
    I posted numbers perviously showing that the vast majority of that was due to Corbyn's rise, rather than May's fall.
  • midwintermidwinter Posts: 1,112
    OUT said:

    On topic: If indeed it is the case that Theresa May has only a small or even no advantage over Jeremy Corbyn, then it's not Tories who need to be worried, it's the United Kingdom. Never before, in the 50 years or so that I've been following politics, has either main party put forward a more fantastical, incompetent, unprepared, economically illiterate, disunited, and dangerous - not to mention vile - front bench as Labour are proposing this time round. Perhaps voters have gone bonkers, but it seems unlikely. At least one hopes so.

    and the positive reasons for voting Conservatives are ................... none
    Plenty. Good governance, sound finances, a sensible approach to funding adult social care, getting immigration back down to sensible levels, improving education, keeping the economy on track - what could conceivably be more positive than that?
    Being able to walk around town, go to a concert/pub/restaurant without being mown down or stabbed.
    Happen to you often?
  • midwintermidwinter Posts: 1,112
    RobD said:

    Jonathan said:

    Jonathan said:

    The Conservatives' main plank is hard right Brexit. You can understand why a lot of the public might choose a different backward-looking fantasy instead, in the absence of anyone putting forward a forward-looking prospectus rooted in reality.

    Not really. 52% of voters chose Brexit. That might have been a mistake, and it was certainly a high-risk decision, but it wasn't the Conservatives who made this choice. Theresa May has, very reasonably, gone for a policy of making the best of this democratic decision. Labour under Jeremy Corbyn seems to half-agree, so that isn't the dividing line
    What's clear is that the Tories now own Brexit, for good or ill.
    The Tories own everything. They are the only one of the two main parties even pretending to offer a programme for government (and the smaller parties have largely disappeared). So, yes, you are right.
    Whoever wins this election is in for trouble. It's 92 or 05 times one thousand.
    Remind me what was said in 2010....
    Shows how great our PM was!
  • glwglw Posts: 10,006
    edited June 2017
    Floater said:

    Jonathan said:

    On topic: If indeed it is the case that Theresa May has only a small or even no advantage over Jeremy Corbyn, then it's not Tories who need to be worried, it's the United Kingdom. Never before, in the 50 years or so that I've been following politics, has either main party put forward a more fantastical, incompetent, unprepared, economically illiterate, disunited, and dangerous - not to mention vile - front bench as Labour are proposing this time round. Perhaps voters have gone bonkers, but it seems unlikely. At least one hopes so.

    and the positive reasons for voting Conservatives are ................... none
    Plenty. Good governance, sound finances, a sensible approach to funding adult social care, getting immigration back down to sensible levels, improving education, keeping the economy on track - what could conceivably be more positive than that?
    Hmm. policy changes by the week and bad headline. Debt up. AAA lost. Immigration up. That's the Tory record.

    Yet at the same time you scream about austerity - hypocrite much?
    And he supports Labour who plan on essentially unprecedented borrowing outside of a war or a depression.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 39,318
    That's actually a good headline for Theresa in the Guardian. The "enough is enough" phrase has definitely resonated today, again using my WhatsApp groups as vox pops loads of people agree with that sentiment, we've had enough of these attacks and it's time something was done to stop them.
  • Danny565Danny565 Posts: 8,091
    RobD said:

    RobD said:

    On topic: If indeed it is the case that Theresa May has only a small or even no advantage over Jeremy Corbyn, then it's not Tories who need to be worried, it's the United Kingdom. Never before, in the 50 years or so that I've been following politics, has either main party put forward a more fantastical, incompetent, unprepared, economically illiterate, disunited, and dangerous - not to mention vile - front bench as Labour are proposing this time round. Perhaps voters have gone bonkers, but it seems unlikely. At least one hopes so.

    There is a real opportunity at this election to go in a different direction.

    I for one welcome the opportunity.

    I think TM will win but it is good not to hear they're all the same on the doorstep.

    At the end of the day we live in a democracy and people do have a real choice between more me me me or something entirely different.
    Isn't Labour's platform all about "me me me"? A bung for middle class student. Keeping WFA for rich pensioners etc. etc.
    RobD said:

    On topic: If indeed it is the case that Theresa May has only a small or even no advantage over Jeremy Corbyn, then it's not Tories who need to be worried, it's the United Kingdom. Never before, in the 50 years or so that I've been following politics, has either main party put forward a more fantastical, incompetent, unprepared, economically illiterate, disunited, and dangerous - not to mention vile - front bench as Labour are proposing this time round. Perhaps voters have gone bonkers, but it seems unlikely. At least one hopes so.

    There is a real opportunity at this election to go in a different direction.

    I for one welcome the opportunity.

    I think TM will win but it is good not to hear they're all the same on the doorstep.

    At the end of the day we live in a democracy and people do have a real choice between more me me me or something entirely different.
    Isn't Labour's platform all about "me me me"? A bung for middle class student. Keeping WFA for rich pensioners etc. etc.
    I agree with one Tory policy TBF getting rid of the triple lock.

    It's about time pensioners did their bit to fund tax cuts for the wealthiest.
    But you support giving millionaire pensioners WFA?
    Correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think the Tories have made clear at all that the Winter Fuel Allowance will *only* be taken from millionaires.

    I thought they had refused to give any indication of what level the WFA will be kept for.
  • StereotomyStereotomy Posts: 4,092

    dixiedean said:

    On topic: If indeed it is the case that Theresa May has only a small or even no advantage over Jeremy Corbyn, then it's not Tories who need to be worried, it's the United Kingdom. Never before, in the 50 years or so that I've been following politics, has either main party put forward a more fantastical, incompetent, unprepared, economically illiterate, disunited, and dangerous - not to mention vile - front bench as Labour are proposing this time round. Perhaps voters have gone bonkers, but it seems unlikely. At least one hopes so.

    and the positive reasons for voting Conservatives are ................... none
    Plenty. Good governance, sound finances, a sensible approach to funding adult social care, getting immigration back down to sensible levels, improving education, keeping the economy on track - what could conceivably be more positive than that?
    All fine and dandy. Very few specifics of how we get from here to there, though.
    Actually, the problem was the opposite. Mrs May's mistake was to be to specific in the manifesto.
    Well didn't it really manage to be way too specific about one particular thing while being incredibly vague about everything else? If we've learned anything from this election, never underestimate May's ability to find the worst of both worlds
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,528

    dixiedean said:

    On topic: If indeed it is the case that Theresa May has only a small or even no advantage over Jeremy Corbyn, then it's not Tories who need to be worried, it's the United Kingdom. Never before, in the 50 years or so that I've been following politics, has either main party put forward a more fantastical, incompetent, unprepared, economically illiterate, disunited, and dangerous - not to mention vile - front bench as Labour are proposing this time round. Perhaps voters have gone bonkers, but it seems unlikely. At least one hopes so.

    and the positive reasons for voting Conservatives are ................... none
    Plenty. Good governance, sound finances, a sensible approach to funding adult social care, getting immigration back down to sensible levels, improving education, keeping the economy on track - what could conceivably be more positive than that?
    All fine and dandy. Very few specifics of how we get from here to there, though.
    Actually, the problem was the opposite. Mrs May's mistake was to be to specific in the manifesto.
    So all your positive reasons to vote Conservative are to be taken on trust, then?
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 120,350
    RobD said:

    I posted numbers perviously showing that the vast majority of that was due to Corbyn's rise, rather than May's fall.
    We have to acknowledge her crapness.

    A good PM would not have let this happen.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 54,216
    May has a large number of deficiencies and I have little doubt that over the next few years we will discover even more but anyone who suggests that she is no better than Corbyn is deeply deluded. We will end this election campaign where we started it: the British people have not been given a credible choice. Only one candidate is even close to being capable of being PM. And it's not Corbyn.
  • OUTOUT Posts: 569
    midwinter said:

    OUT said:

    On topic: If indeed it is the case that Theresa May has only a small or even no advantage over Jeremy Corbyn, then it's not Tories who need to be worried, it's the United Kingdom. Never before, in the 50 years or so that I've been following politics, has either main party put forward a more fantastical, incompetent, unprepared, economically illiterate, disunited, and dangerous - not to mention vile - front bench as Labour are proposing this time round. Perhaps voters have gone bonkers, but it seems unlikely. At least one hopes so.

    and the positive reasons for voting Conservatives are ................... none
    Plenty. Good governance, sound finances, a sensible approach to funding adult social care, getting immigration back down to sensible levels, improving education, keeping the economy on track - what could conceivably be more positive than that?
    Being able to walk around town, go to a concert/pub/restaurant without being mown down or stabbed.
    Happen to you often?
    Who knows who's next.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 60,145
    Danny565 said:



    Correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think the Tories have made clear at all that the Winter Fuel Allowance will *only* be taken from millionaires.

    I thought they had refused to give any indication of what level the WFA will be kept for.

    No, but at least they are doing something about it. It's money wasted on those that don't need it. Resources should be focussed on those who genuinely need help.
  • StereotomyStereotomy Posts: 4,092
    MaxPB said:

    That's actually a good headline for Theresa in the Guardian. The "enough is enough" phrase has definitely resonated today, again using my WhatsApp groups as vox pops loads of people agree with that sentiment, we've had enough of these attacks and it's time something was done to stop them.

    Actually the ideal time might have been before now
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 39,318
    I'm pretty sure Sir Lynton would not have wanted that manifesto to be released with those shit policies in them.
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    Instead of reading PB this evening, I watched the Manchester gig, and despite not knowing some of the acts and many of the songs, it was fucking brilliant!

    As for Jezzbollah, and his sudden conversion, this is awkward

    https://twitter.com/mrharrycole/status/871457856415043584

    And on police funding, is anyone seriously claiming that last night they needed more personnel or equipment to take down 3 attackers in 8 minutes
  • FloaterFloater Posts: 14,207
    MaxPB said:

    That's actually a good headline for Theresa in the Guardian. The "enough is enough" phrase has definitely resonated today, again using my WhatsApp groups as vox pops loads of people agree with that sentiment, we've had enough of these attacks and it's time something was done to stop them.

    You know I am no fan of Labour but this is just words Max.

    All we get are words and platitudes.

  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,894
    nunu said:

    glw said:

    Farron's performance against Neil won't have helped. He has had a dreadful campaign.

    He was a poor choice from a very limited pool. Lamb would have been a least a little better.
    A little - but unlikely now to hold his Norfolk seat.

    It is very hard to see who will replace Farron - the pool will be very small.
    Britain elects makes him a near cert as hold.

    http://britainelects.com/nowcast/

    I think their 354 number is not far off, but I would give them a handful more.
    They are predicting 29% of the tory gains to come from Scotland. Dissappointing for them.
    Their model is too optmisic on the LibDems in London (albeit I think Twickenham, for reasons of Heathrow mostly) is likely to fall.

    I would also estimate that Fife NE is more likely than those forecasts, and East Dunbartonshire less.
  • ReggieCideReggieCide Posts: 4,312
    RobD said:

    I posted numbers perviously showing that the vast majority of that was due to Corbyn's rise, rather than May's fall.
    doesn't one normally avoid being seen as pervy, never mind drawing attention to it?
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 39,318

    RobD said:

    I posted numbers perviously showing that the vast majority of that was due to Corbyn's rise, rather than May's fall.
    We have to acknowledge her crapness.

    A good PM would not have let this happen.
    Indeed, my worry is that we'll end up with a 120-140 majority on the back of the last few days and team Theresa will see it as a vindication of their shitty manifesto.
  • FloaterFloater Posts: 14,207
    DavidL said:

    May has a large number of deficiencies and I have little doubt that over the next few years we will discover even more but anyone who suggests that she is no better than Corbyn is deeply deluded. We will end this election campaign where we started it: the British people have not been given a credible choice. Only one candidate is even close to being capable of being PM. And it's not Corbyn.

    Yep - even the majority of Labour mp's agree the man is not fit to lead this country and as for his views.......
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,546
    edited June 2017
    Scott_P said:
    The Sun have a leaked telephone conversion?
  • Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 30,822
    So, in summary, the reaction to my point that "in the 50 years or so that I've been following politics, has either main party put forward a more fantastical, incompetent, unprepared, economically illiterate, disunited, and dangerous - not to mention vile - front bench as Labour are proposing this time round" is to counter this by saying that Theresa May's not all that great.

    Well, yes. QED, I think.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,528
    Floater said:

    MaxPB said:

    That's actually a good headline for Theresa in the Guardian. The "enough is enough" phrase has definitely resonated today, again using my WhatsApp groups as vox pops loads of people agree with that sentiment, we've had enough of these attacks and it's time something was done to stop them.

    You know I am no fan of Labour but this is just words Max.

    All we get are words and platitudes.

    Not exactly convinced "Enough is enough" is a good slogan for a Party in power for 7 years.
  • PongPong Posts: 4,693
    edited June 2017
    Scott_P said:

    Instead of reading PB this evening, I watched the Manchester gig, and despite not knowing some of the acts and many of the songs, it was fucking brilliant!

    As for Jezzbollah, and his sudden conversion, this is awkward

    https://twitter.com/mrharrycole/status/871457856415043584

    And on police funding, is anyone seriously claiming that last night they needed more personnel or equipment to take down 3 attackers in 8 minutes

    The sun have a tape of a private Milne/Corbyn phone conversation?

    How?
  • FloaterFloater Posts: 14,207

    So, in summary, the reaction to my point that "in the 50 years or so that I've been following politics, has either main party put forward a more fantastical, incompetent, unprepared, economically illiterate, disunited, and dangerous - not to mention vile - front bench as Labour are proposing this time round" is to counter this by saying that Theresa May's not all that great.

    Well, yes. QED, I think.

    She isn't great - but she is the only game in town.

    Plus the tories do dump shite - unlike Labour
  • Danny565Danny565 Posts: 8,091
    dixiedean said:

    Floater said:

    MaxPB said:

    That's actually a good headline for Theresa in the Guardian. The "enough is enough" phrase has definitely resonated today, again using my WhatsApp groups as vox pops loads of people agree with that sentiment, we've had enough of these attacks and it's time something was done to stop them.

    You know I am no fan of Labour but this is just words Max.

    All we get are words and platitudes.

    Not exactly convinced "Enough is enough" is a good slogan for a Party in power for 7 years.
    Especially when this is the 3rd terrorist attack on her watch within a few months, following 10 years where the UK didn't have any....
  • edmundintokyoedmundintokyo Posts: 17,709
    Floater said:

    MaxPB said:

    That's actually a good headline for Theresa in the Guardian. The "enough is enough" phrase has definitely resonated today, again using my WhatsApp groups as vox pops loads of people agree with that sentiment, we've had enough of these attacks and it's time something was done to stop them.

    You know I am no fan of Labour but this is just words Max.

    All we get are words and platitudes.

    That's not true, she also has a specific, concrete and ridiculous plan to break internet security.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 60,145
    dixiedean said:

    Floater said:

    MaxPB said:

    That's actually a good headline for Theresa in the Guardian. The "enough is enough" phrase has definitely resonated today, again using my WhatsApp groups as vox pops loads of people agree with that sentiment, we've had enough of these attacks and it's time something was done to stop them.

    You know I am no fan of Labour but this is just words Max.

    All we get are words and platitudes.

    Not exactly convinced "Enough is enough" is a good slogan for a Party in power for 7 years.
    Did you se the stats on number of attacks they have thwarted? I think there was as many in the last 70 days as there were in the last five years, or something like that.
  • TudorRoseTudorRose Posts: 1,683
    RobD said:

    I posted numbers perviously showing that the vast majority of that was due to Corbyn's rise, rather than May's fall.
    And - let's face it - it's YouGov.
  • SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 39,773
    DavidL said:

    May has a large number of deficiencies and I have little doubt that over the next few years we will discover even more but anyone who suggests that she is no better than Corbyn is deeply deluded. We will end this election campaign where we started it: the British people have not been given a credible choice. Only one candidate is even close to being capable of being PM. And it's not Corbyn.

    Mediocre and lighweight beats catastrophic and toxic every time. But, as you say in so many words, that is not cause for celebration. Voters have never been presented with a worse choice.

  • NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,587

    Ishmael_Z said:

    The concert has been brilliant. Sent out a message of unity, strength and love. That we won't be divided and we certainly won't go demonising anyone who is different or looking for a scapegoat.

    Are you characterising Muslims as "different"? In what way "different"? Different from you? Different from what they should be? Different from Christians? It's unusual to see the inherent racism of the UK left so explicitly stated (except of course where Jews are involved).
    I have to say I think this comment from you takes the biscuit for twisting both the words and the sentiment of what Apocalypse has said. Kind of unnecessary and reflects poorly on you.
    +1
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 39,318
    Floater said:

    MaxPB said:

    That's actually a good headline for Theresa in the Guardian. The "enough is enough" phrase has definitely resonated today, again using my WhatsApp groups as vox pops loads of people agree with that sentiment, we've had enough of these attacks and it's time something was done to stop them.

    You know I am no fan of Labour but this is just words Max.

    All we get are words and platitudes.

    Of course it's just words, but the words are different to what we normally get - "religion of peace", "not real Muslims" etc...

    This is at least something else, something that sounds credible to ordinary people tired of hearing how Ahmed from Bradford wasn't a real Muslim because he was actually Dave from Norwich.

    Boris' words have also not gon unnoticed, his theme is stronger as well, and I was asked as the resident Tory of our group of friends whether I think he'll run against May sooner rather than later.
  • isamisam Posts: 41,118
    Chameleon said:

    isam said:

    Mail know who one of the terrorist was....

    One of the jihadis who terrorised London with two assailants before being shot dead by police tricked his neighbours into believing he was a nice guy by playing football with their children on the nearby green.

    Secretly, he was harbouring a destructive hatred and frequently changing his appearance in preparation of unleashing a deadly attack on the capital city during which seven people died and up to 50 were injured last night.

    The killer, who MailOnline is not naming because of operational reasons on the request of the police, lived in a block of flats in Barking and also played table tennis with youngsters.

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4570950/Footage-shows-London-Bridge-terrorists-Borough-Market.html

    Although I always knew East London was v ISIS friendly, and always had slight anxiety on the train n the way to the city (via Barking, West Ham, Limehouse), actually knowing jihadis live 8 mins away is v scary

    A weird weekend. One of our schoolmates commited suicide Friday, now I live next door to terrorists
    Sounds like a rough weekend, sorry about that. Time to go to the Winchester for a metaphorical pint, and wait for it all blow over?
    It wasn't a close mate, more one of the crowd. We actually fell out as he tried to diddle me out of some money, so I'd feel a bit of a fraud going to the funeral as we hadn't spoke for years. But all the same, someone I'd gone on holiday with a few times etc. Weird that he's dead. In fact the first time I got on a plane (Feb 91 a school ski trip) we had our bags checked and he said 'mind the bombs'... didn't go down well in the middle of gulf war!
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,546

    DavidL said:

    May has a large number of deficiencies and I have little doubt that over the next few years we will discover even more but anyone who suggests that she is no better than Corbyn is deeply deluded. We will end this election campaign where we started it: the British people have not been given a credible choice. Only one candidate is even close to being capable of being PM. And it's not Corbyn.

    Mediocre and lighweight beats catastrophic and toxic every time. But, as you say in so many words, that is not cause for celebration. Voters have never been presented with a worse choice.

    I don't know Sarah Heather vs Dawn Butler was probably worse ;-)
  • Chris_AChris_A Posts: 1,237
    Danny565 said:



    Correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think the Tories have made clear at all that the Winter Fuel Allowance will *only* be taken from millionaires.

    I thought they had refused to give any indication of what level the WFA will be kept for.

    The Tories are scientifically stupid on this matter. They rule that no Scottish pensioners will lose WFA because of the climate. Yet Edinburgh has an average temperature higher than Durham, the Western Isles are some of the warmest parts of the country.
  • glwglw Posts: 10,006
    Pong said:

    Scott_P said:

    Instead of reading PB this evening, I watched the Manchester gig, and despite not knowing some of the acts and many of the songs, it was fucking brilliant!

    As for Jezzbollah, and his sudden conversion, this is awkward

    https://twitter.com/mrharrycole/status/871457856415043584

    And on police funding, is anyone seriously claiming that last night they needed more personnel or equipment to take down 3 attackers in 8 minutes

    The sun have a tape of a private Milne/Corbyn phone conversation?

    How?
    Maybe there is a patriot in Labour HQ?
  • FloaterFloater Posts: 14,207
    glw said:

    Pong said:

    Scott_P said:

    Instead of reading PB this evening, I watched the Manchester gig, and despite not knowing some of the acts and many of the songs, it was fucking brilliant!

    As for Jezzbollah, and his sudden conversion, this is awkward

    https://twitter.com/mrharrycole/status/871457856415043584

    And on police funding, is anyone seriously claiming that last night they needed more personnel or equipment to take down 3 attackers in 8 minutes

    The sun have a tape of a private Milne/Corbyn phone conversation?

    How?
    Maybe there is a patriot in Labour HQ?
    Unlikely
  • KentRisingKentRising Posts: 2,917
    Floater said:

    MaxPB said:

    That's actually a good headline for Theresa in the Guardian. The "enough is enough" phrase has definitely resonated today, again using my WhatsApp groups as vox pops loads of people agree with that sentiment, we've had enough of these attacks and it's time something was done to stop them.

    You know I am no fan of Labour but this is just words Max.

    All we get are words and platitudes.

    She couldn't exactly announce a new measure in her speech today could she? It would have been seen as electioneering. Let's see what happens after Friday - if, god willing, sanity wins through and its not PM Corbyn.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 60,145
    edited June 2017
    Pong said:

    Scott_P said:

    Instead of reading PB this evening, I watched the Manchester gig, and despite not knowing some of the acts and many of the songs, it was fucking brilliant!

    As for Jezzbollah, and his sudden conversion, this is awkward

    twitter.com/mrharrycole/status/871457856415043584

    And on police funding, is anyone seriously claiming that last night they needed more personnel or equipment to take down 3 attackers in 8 minutes

    The sun have a tape of a private Milne/Corbyn phone conversation?

    How?
    Here's the story -- https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/3722457/jeremy-corbyns-spin-doctor-brands-idea-labour-leader-would-defend-uk-with-nukes-bonkers/

    edit: the previous version I saw actually had the transcript.
  • isamisam Posts: 41,118
    MaxPB said:

    Floater said:

    MaxPB said:

    That's actually a good headline for Theresa in the Guardian. The "enough is enough" phrase has definitely resonated today, again using my WhatsApp groups as vox pops loads of people agree with that sentiment, we've had enough of these attacks and it's time something was done to stop them.

    You know I am no fan of Labour but this is just words Max.

    All we get are words and platitudes.

    Of course it's just words, but the words are different to what we normally get - "religion of peace", "not real Muslims" etc...

    This is at least something else, something that sounds credible to ordinary people tired of hearing how Ahmed from Bradford wasn't a real Muslim because he was actually Dave from Norwich.

    Boris' words have also not gon unnoticed, his theme is stronger as well, and I was asked as the resident Tory of our group of friends whether I think he'll run against May sooner rather than later.
    It's not enough but it is 100 times stronger than the normal vomit inducing vagueness
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,528
    RobD said:

    dixiedean said:

    Floater said:

    MaxPB said:

    That's actually a good headline for Theresa in the Guardian. The "enough is enough" phrase has definitely resonated today, again using my WhatsApp groups as vox pops loads of people agree with that sentiment, we've had enough of these attacks and it's time something was done to stop them.

    You know I am no fan of Labour but this is just words Max.

    All we get are words and platitudes.

    Not exactly convinced "Enough is enough" is a good slogan for a Party in power for 7 years.
    Did you se the stats on number of attacks they have thwarted? I think there was as many in the last 70 days as there were in the last five years, or something like that.
    That was not my point at all. Just the subliminal message it sends out.
  • DadgeDadge Posts: 2,052
    What's this 39-35 Norstat poll that's been sneaked onto the list? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opinion_polling_for_the_United_Kingdom_general_election,_2017
  • isamisam Posts: 41,118
  • RobDRobD Posts: 60,145
    Dadge said:

    What's this 39-35 Norstat poll that's been sneaked onto the list? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opinion_polling_for_the_United_Kingdom_general_election,_2017

    Came out last night, for the Express I think.
This discussion has been closed.