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  • Mortimer said:

    So, after much tinkering, I've just finalised my model's prediction for the GE:

    CON: 377
    LAB: 198
    SNP: 45
    LD: 6
    Others: 24

    Of the 47 expected Tory gains I'm happy to report, without too much tinkering, that TP's Don Valley is listed.... Good luck Aaron!!

    I think you're being a tad optimistic in giving the Tories an overall majority of 104.
    Subject to any late moves in the polls I'm going for:

    Con ......... 357
    Lab .......... 212
    SNP ........... 48
    LibDems .....11
    Plaid ........... 3
    Greens ........ 1
    N.I. ........... 18

    Total ........ 650

    Con Maj ..... 64



  • mattmatt Posts: 3,789
    Yorkcity said:

    Jonathan said:

    Mortimer said:

    OldBasing said:

    Anecdotal:

    North East Hampshire: never before seen Labour posters in well-to-do rural villages.

    Sunday lunch pub conversation ( same constituency): four oldies, who I would have automatically put in the blue column, livid about winter fuel allowance. Talk of not voting Tory. Where there vote goes instead remains a mystery. Abstention? Damaged Tory core vote?

    Make of that what you will.

    I live in North East Hampshire. It's the safest Conservative seat in the country.

    Posters mean nothing, other than the very few Labour voters there are choosing to show their colours.

    There are dozens in Southampton Test, and zero Tory, and it also means nothing.
    Yup. There is a vote labour poster up opposite me. Not one Tory poster up in the street. From delivering around here I know that the Tory vote is strong, solid, supportive, but not wont to put up posters...
    The risk of abuse for being an open Conservative is a real factor.

    And that is something that the political classes have to deal with - and quickly.

    The level of vitriol from Left supporters to those on the Right (or in the centre) is so nasty, so cruel, so vindictive, it is understandable that the Shy Tory factor is getting bigger and bigger.

    Corbyn has shown himself unwilling to take action against his supporters who have sought to silence or attack their opponents. He is permitting a culture where verbal violence is acceptable and commonplace
    And they will go out in their millions on Thursday - quietly, softly, and determinedly - and vote Conservative. And Corbyn will be defeated.

    And the airwaves and social media will subsequently be filled with the biggest petulant strop ever known to humanity, at which those same Conservatives will quietly smile.

    And so it was.
    And yet Conservatives, often here and in places like the Daily Mail, churn out poisonous bile.
    Very true there has been no possibility of defeat but they spew hate out on here and elsewhere then condemn others for doing the same .
    Which people are you thinking of? I guess that there's quite a long list.

  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 29,469

    I too have seen Labour placards in a field full of sheep - between Skipton and Colne.

    I also saw a house festooned with Labour posters in the village of Litton - basically the middle of nowhere in the Dales.

    A few normally Tory voting farmer acquaintances I know are very pissed-off at the prospect of losing their CAP subsidies. That might explain it.

  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 22,384
    I have still only seen one Green Party poster. And that is in our front window!

    Compensated for by the two Labour posters, I should add.
  • foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548

    glw said:

    Farron's performance against Neil won't have helped. He has had a dreadful campaign.

    He was a poor choice from a very limited pool. Lamb would have been a least a little better.
    A little - but unlikely now to hold his Norfolk seat.

    It is very hard to see who will replace Farron - the pool will be very small.
    Britain elects makes him a near cert as hold.

    http://britainelects.com/nowcast/

    I think their 354 number is not far off, but I would give them a handful more.
  • The_ApocalypseThe_Apocalypse Posts: 7,830
    I've see quite a few Conservative signs parked on homes in my area of Watford. A few Labour too, but there are more Conservative ones.
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 22,384

    I too have seen Labour placards in a field full of sheep - between Skipton and Colne.

    I also saw a house festooned with Labour posters in the village of Litton - basically the middle of nowhere in the Dales.

    A few normally Tory voting farmer acquaintances I know are very pissed-off at the prospect of losing their CAP subsidies. That might explain it.

    No more magic money tree for the farmers!
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 61,253
    Jonathan said:

    Mortimer said:

    OldBasing said:

    Anecdotal:

    North East Hampshire: never before seen Labour posters in well-to-do rural villages.

    Sunday lunch pub conversation ( same constituency): four oldies, who I would have automatically put in the blue column, livid about winter fuel allowance. Talk of not voting Tory. Where there vote goes instead remains a mystery. Abstention? Damaged Tory core vote?

    Make of that what you will.

    I live in North East Hampshire. It's the safest Conservative seat in the country.

    Posters mean nothing, other than the very few Labour voters there are choosing to show their colours.

    There are dozens in Southampton Test, and zero Tory, and it also means nothing.
    Yup. There is a vote labour poster up opposite me. Not one Tory poster up in the street. From delivering around here I know that the Tory vote is strong, solid, supportive, but not wont to put up posters...
    The risk of abuse for being an open Conservative is a real factor.

    And that is something that the political classes have to deal with - and quickly.

    The level of vitriol from Left supporters to those on the Right (or in the centre) is so nasty, so cruel, so vindictive, it is understandable that the Shy Tory factor is getting bigger and bigger.

    Corbyn has shown himself unwilling to take action against his supporters who have sought to silence or attack their opponents. He is permitting a culture where verbal violence is acceptable and commonplace
    And they will go out in their millions on Thursday - quietly, softly, and determinedly - and vote Conservative. And Corbyn will be defeated.

    And the airwaves and social media will subsequently be filled with the biggest petulant strop ever known to humanity, at which those same Conservatives will quietly smile.

    And so it was.
    And yet Conservatives, often here and in places like the Daily Mail, churn out poisonous bile.
    You mean we disagree with you.

    The shame.
  • foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548

    I have still only seen one Green Party poster. And that is in our front window!

    Compensated for by the two Labour posters, I should add.

    There is a second one in a window in Leics South.
  • Ishmael_ZIshmael_Z Posts: 8,981
    Chris said:

    Ishmael_Z said:


    As you are thick lefties I have to point out that "Because Enoch Powell" is not an argument which refutes Enoch Powell. And it sure as shit doesn't refute George Washington.

    Ah yes, lucid, intellectual political discourse isn't what it used to be.

    By the way, you should be careful to pronounce it properly:
    "AYNOCH WUZ ROIGHT!!"
    Thick lefty, and snobbish to boot.

    Perhaps address the argument? Is Washington saying what Powell said, and was he wrong too?
  • MortimerMortimer Posts: 14,158
    Pulpstar said:

    Mortimer said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Mortimer said:

    So, after much tinkering, I've just finalised my model's prediction for the GE:

    CON: 377
    LAB: 198
    SNP: 45
    LD: 6
    Others: 24

    Of the 47 expected Tory gains I'm happy to report, without too much tinkering, that TP's Don Valley is listed.... Good luck Aaron!!

    I don't think that's an unreasonable estimate. Could I ask how your LD seats come out?

    I think they'll get 3/4 in Scotland.
    Plus Ceredgion.

    And then I'd reckon another 2-6 in England. To give me a range of 6 (at the low end), to 11 at the high.
    Course. I have those 6 as:

    Westmorland & Lonsdale
    Dunbartonshire East
    Orkney & Shetland
    Ceredigion
    Leeds North West (MOE only)
    Sheffield Hallam (MOE only)

    BUT:

    Edinburgh West
    Caithness, Sutherland & Easter Ross
    Fife North East

    Are all projected LD second and without MOE....
    Who do you have as closest challengers in Leeds NW and Hallam ?

    How does Twickenham and Kingston also look ?
    (Of course any model will have Richmond Park safely with the Tories)
    Lab in both Leeds and Sheff H.

    Twickenham, Tories by 6%
    Kingston, Tories by 7%

    And yep you're right - even I'm hoping my model is wrong on RP. Currently showing Con by 41%......

  • ProdicusProdicus Posts: 658

    Driving in the beautiful Kentish countryside around Edenbridge this morning there was a massive Labour poster up in the garden of a barn conversion. I almost careered into the hedgerow. What the fcuk is going on?

    Here's what is going on: Corbyn is trendy, and right-on, and the Labour base is over-the-moon and totally enthused. Even in Surrey and Sussex Labour gets ~10% of the vote, and that's about 5,000 voters or so in each constituency.

    It only takes the very few who love him, and live in the country, a retired artist, or wealthy London commuter in the media, to stick up one poster to shock people.

    That's it.
    Rabble-rousing is easy for a specialist like Corbyn who's been honing his skill (and doing nothing else) for a lifetime, indulged by a party which alternately ignored and indulged him as an unthreatening souvenir of their own youthful fantasies. Or so they thought until the three-quidder black swan flew in.

    Unfortunately, rabbles include malevolent useful idiots whose pathological hobby is violence, threatened or actual along with highly intelligent revolutionaries (I.e., better brains than Corbyn's... e.g., Milne) who are only too happy to use them. Corbyn is presently captain of such a motley crew. The ship, however, is effectively pilotless and will founder. Sooner or later. Let's hope sooner, before too many people get hurt.

  • oxfordsimonoxfordsimon Posts: 5,844
    Pong said:

    Mortimer said:

    OldBasing said:

    Anecdotal:

    North East Hampshire: never before seen Labour posters in well-to-do rural villages.

    Sunday lunch pub conversation ( same constituency): four oldies, who I would have automatically put in the blue column, livid about winter fuel allowance. Talk of not voting Tory. Where there vote goes instead remains a mystery. Abstention? Damaged Tory core vote?

    Make of that what you will.

    I live in North East Hampshire. It's the safest Conservative seat in the country.

    Posters mean nothing, other than the very few Labour voters there are choosing to show their colours.

    There are dozens in Southampton Test, and zero Tory, and it also means nothing.
    Yup. There is a vote labour poster up opposite me. Not one Tory poster up in the street. From delivering around here I know that the Tory vote is strong, solid, supportive, but not wont to put up posters...
    The risk of abuse for being an open Conservative is a real factor.

    And that is something that the political classes have to deal with - and quickly.

    The level of vitriol from Left supporters to those on the Right (or in the centre) is so nasty, so cruel, so vindictive, it is understandable that the Shy Tory factor is getting bigger and bigger.

    Corbyn has shown himself unwilling to take action against his supporters who have sought to silence or attack their opponents. He is permitting a culture where verbal violence is acceptable and commonplace
    You logged onto this site within minutes of Gerald Kaufman dying and posted;

    "Hopefully the truth about Kaufman might start to emerge now."

    Far right types like you rival the far left in cruel and vindictive.
    Why is it cruel and vindictive to want the truth about that man to emerge? I am a strong believer in justice - and that demands that that truth is brought into the open.

    Describing someone like me as 'far right' shows how easy you find it to misrepresent and lie.
  • MarkSeniorMarkSenior Posts: 4,699

    Driving in the beautiful Kentish countryside around Edenbridge this morning there was a massive Labour poster up in the garden of a barn conversion. I almost careered into the hedgerow. What the fcuk is going on?

    Going on number of posters seen, the LDs are going to walk Oxford West and Abingdon - but that isn't how it works in the real world.
    Tory + UKIP in OWAB is 52.6% of the vote, and Labour voters won't be surging to back the Lib Dems this time.

    Nicola will be fine. More than fine, in fact.
    Lib Dems had a lead of over 3,500 over the Conservatives in the CC elections in OxWAB . They do need to get Labour voters in Jericho ward to vote for them to be able to win .
  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 21,768

    Jonathan said:

    Mortimer said:

    OldBasing said:

    Anecdotal:

    North East Hampshire: never before seen Labour posters in well-to-do rural villages.

    Sunday lunch pub conversation ( same constituency): four oldies, who I would have automatically put in the blue column, livid about winter fuel allowance. Talk of not voting Tory. Where there vote goes instead remains a mystery. Abstention? Damaged Tory core vote?

    Make of that what you will.

    I live in North East Hampshire. It's the safest Conservative seat in the country.

    Posters mean nothing, other than the very few Labour voters there are choosing to show their colours.

    There are dozens in Southampton Test, and zero Tory, and it also means nothing.
    Yup. There is a vote labour poster up opposite me. Not one Tory poster up in the street. From delivering around here I know that the Tory vote is strong, solid, supportive, but not wont to put up posters...
    The risk of abuse for being an open Conservative is a real factor.

    And that is something that the political classes have to deal with - and quickly.

    The level of vitriol from Left supporters to those on the Right (or in the centre) is so nasty, so cruel, so vindictive, it is understandable that the Shy Tory factor is getting bigger and bigger.

    Corbyn has shown himself unwilling to take action against his supporters who have sought to silence or attack their opponents. He is permitting a culture where verbal violence is acceptable and commonplace
    And they will go out in their millions on Thursday - quietly, softly, and determinedly - and vote Conservative. And Corbyn will be defeated.

    And the airwaves and social media will subsequently be filled with the biggest petulant strop ever known to humanity, at which those same Conservatives will quietly smile.

    And so it was.
    And yet Conservatives, often here and in places like the Daily Mail, churn out poisonous bile.
    You mean we disagree with you.

    The shame.
    You can disagree. But stop polishing your halo. Your lot are capable of churning out vile abuse.
  • MortimerMortimer Posts: 14,158
    rcs1000 said:

    Mortimer said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Mortimer said:

    So, after much tinkering, I've just finalised my model's prediction for the GE:

    CON: 377
    LAB: 198
    SNP: 45
    LD: 6
    Others: 24

    Of the 47 expected Tory gains I'm happy to report, without too much tinkering, that TP's Don Valley is listed.... Good luck Aaron!!

    I don't think that's an unreasonable estimate. Could I ask how your LD seats come out?

    I think they'll get 3/4 in Scotland.
    Plus Ceredgion.

    And then I'd reckon another 2-6 in England. To give me a range of 6 (at the low end), to 11 at the high.
    Course. I have those 6 as:

    Westmorland & Lonsdale
    Dunbartonshire East
    Orkney & Shetland
    Ceredigion
    Leeds North West
    Sheffield Hallam

    BUT:

    Edinburgh West
    Caithness, Sutherland & Easter Ross
    Fife North East

    Are all projected LD second and without MOE....
    I think Edinburgh West is by far the most likely LibDem gain in the country. Look at the results in the locals last month: they topped the poll in all three wards in constituency, and managed over 50% in the biggest (Almond). Sure, turnout will be down, but tactical voting will be up.

    My guess is that Leeds NW will fall to Labour (albeit it'll be very close). Fife NE will also be very close, as the LDs won it at Holyrood last year and topped the polls in the locals there last month. (Albeit by a small margin.)

    I also hope that Norman Lamb hangs on North Norfolk. I am Eurosceptic, socially liberal Conservative, and (frankly) think that the strand of liberalism he represents should be encouraged. I'd vote for him.

    And Twickenham is also a 50/50 shot for the LDs. Why? Partly Brexit, mostly Heathrow.
    Can't disagree with any of that that.

    But at the same time, my model.....!! :)
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 61,253

    I too have seen Labour placards in a field full of sheep - between Skipton and Colne.

    I also saw a house festooned with Labour posters in the village of Litton - basically the middle of nowhere in the Dales.

    A few normally Tory voting farmer acquaintances I know are very pissed-off at the prospect of losing their CAP subsidies. That might explain it.

    No more magic money tree for the farmers!
    Conclusion: no voter, whichever party they support, likes their taxpayer funded goodies being taken away.

    Having never had any (that I can think of - apart from just beating the £1k-£3.5k tuition fees hike in c.2003) I struggle to sympathise, but I'm sure I would feel aggrieved if they were.

    I know I felt irritated at Osborne potentially raiding my higher-rate tax-free pensions allowance.
  • TypoTypo Posts: 195
    I have seen plenty of Labour (perhaps a couple in each street) and a few Green in my part of Crystal Palace (the Dulwich and West Norwood part). Not a single Conservative poster- yet even here the Tories can expect to score c.20-25% of the vote. Posters in windows tell us next to nothing.
  • YorkcityYorkcity Posts: 4,382
    jonny83 said:

    This concert has sent out such a powerful message tonight. We won't be beaten.

    Yes it has been fantastic not a coldplay fan but Chris Martin is a brilliant singer live.
  • BigRichBigRich Posts: 3,492

    glw said:

    Farron's performance against Neil won't have helped. He has had a dreadful campaign.

    He was a poor choice from a very limited pool. Lamb would have been a least a little better.
    A little - but unlikely now to hold his Norfolk seat.

    It is very hard to see who will replace Farron - the pool will be very small.
    I think there is a reasonable change that if Nick Clegg holds his seat he will be back running the LDs. I'm no fan of his or his politics, but I recognize that he can get the TV time and express himself better than others, we have the president of old leaders returning with both Alex Samon and Nigel Farage.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,894
    edited June 2017

    rcs1000 said:

    Mortimer said:

    So, after much tinkering, I've just finalised my model's prediction for the GE:

    CON: 377
    LAB: 198
    SNP: 45
    LD: 6
    Others: 24

    Of the 47 expected Tory gains I'm happy to report, without too much tinkering, that TP's Don Valley is listed.... Good luck Aaron!!

    I don't think that's an unreasonable estimate. Could I ask how your LD seats come out?

    I think they'll get 3/4 in Scotland.
    Plus Ceredgion.

    And then I'd reckon another 2-6 in England. To give me a range of 6 (at the low end), to 11 at the high.
    Last I heard was that LDs were expecting 5 seats - with 11 at the upper limit of their hopes and 0 as a real possibility.

    Farron's performance against Neil won't have helped. He has had a dreadful campaign.
    At a local level, I understand the LDs are expecting to gain Twickenham, East Dunbartonshire and Edinburgh West. I don't know what they think at the centre, but I'd be very surprised if it was as low as 5, given the likelihood of getting three Scottish seats and Ceredgion.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 60,145
    Only four days to go until the exit poll is announced! I can just hear the bongs at ten now....
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 61,253
    Jonathan said:

    Jonathan said:

    Mortimer said:

    OldBasing said:

    Anecdotal:

    North East Hampshire: never before seen Labour posters in well-to-do rural villages.

    Sunday lunch pub conversation ( same constituency): four oldies, who I would have automatically put in the blue column, livid about winter fuel allowance. Talk of not voting Tory. Where there vote goes instead remains a mystery. Abstention? Damaged Tory core vote?

    Make of that what you will.

    I live in North East Hampshire. It's the safest Conservative seat in the country.

    Posters mean nothing, other than the very few Labour voters there are choosing to show their colours.

    There are dozens in Southampton Test, and zero Tory, and it also means nothing.
    Yup. There is a vote labour poster up opposite me. Not one Tory poster up in the street. From delivering around here I know that the Tory vote is strong, solid, supportive, but not wont to put up posters...
    The risk of abuse for being an open Conservative is a real factor.

    And that is something that the political classes have to deal with - and quickly.

    The level of vitriol from Left supporters to those on the Right (or in the centre) is so nasty, so cruel, so vindictive, it is understandable that the Shy Tory factor is getting bigger and bigger.

    Corbyn has shown himself unwilling to take action against his supporters who have sought to silence or attack their opponents. He is permitting a culture where verbal violence is acceptable and commonplace
    And they will go out in their millions on Thursday - quietly, softly, and determinedly - and vote Conservative. And Corbyn will be defeated.

    And the airwaves and social media will subsequently be filled with the biggest petulant strop ever known to humanity, at which those same Conservatives will quietly smile.

    And so it was.
    And yet Conservatives, often here and in places like the Daily Mail, churn out poisonous bile.
    You mean we disagree with you.

    The shame.
    You can disagree. But stop polishing your halo. Your lot are capable of churning out vile abuse.
    I don't need to polish it, it shines pure brilliance all by itself.
  • surbitonsurbiton Posts: 13,549
    Jonathan said:

    Jonathan said:

    Mortimer said:

    OldBasing said:

    Anecdotal:

    North East Hampshire: never before seen Labour posters in well-to-do rural villages.

    Sunday lunch pub conversation ( same constituency): four oldies, who I would have automatically put in the blue column, livid about winter fuel allowance. Talk of not voting Tory. Where there vote goes instead remains a mystery. Abstention? Damaged Tory core vote?

    Make of that what you will.

    I live in North East Hampshire. It's the safest Conservative seat in the country.

    Posters mean nothing, other than the very few Labour voters there are choosing to show their colours.

    There are dozens in Southampton Test, and zero Tory, and it also means nothing.
    Yup. There is a vote labour poster up opposite me. Not one Tory poster up in the street. From delivering around here I know that the Tory vote is strong, solid, supportive, but not wont to put up posters...
    The risk of abuse for being an open Conservative is a real factor.

    And that is something that the political classes have to deal with - and quickly.

    The level of vitriol from Left supporters to those on the Right (or in the centre) is so nasty, so cruel, so vindictive, it is understandable that the Shy Tory factor is getting bigger and bigger.

    Corbyn has shown himself unwilling to take action against his supporters who have sought to silence or attack their opponents. He is permitting a culture where verbal violence is acceptable and commonplace
    And they will go out in their millions on Thursday - quietly, softly, and determinedly - and vote Conservative. And Corbyn will be defeated.

    And the airwaves and social media will subsequently be filled with the biggest petulant strop ever known to humanity, at which those same Conservatives will quietly smile.

    And so it was.
    And yet Conservatives, often here and in places like the Daily Mail, churn out poisonous bile.
    You mean we disagree with you.

    The shame.
    You can disagree. But stop polishing your halo. Your lot are capable of churning out vile abuse.
    It is ironic that PB Tories are complaining about others regarding abuse.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 61,253

    Driving in the beautiful Kentish countryside around Edenbridge this morning there was a massive Labour poster up in the garden of a barn conversion. I almost careered into the hedgerow. What the fcuk is going on?

    Going on number of posters seen, the LDs are going to walk Oxford West and Abingdon - but that isn't how it works in the real world.
    Tory + UKIP in OWAB is 52.6% of the vote, and Labour voters won't be surging to back the Lib Dems this time.

    Nicola will be fine. More than fine, in fact.
    Lib Dems had a lead of over 3,500 over the Conservatives in the CC elections in OxWAB . They do need to get Labour voters in Jericho ward to vote for them to be able to win .
    Local elections are not the same as General Elections.

    Next.
  • AndrewAndrew Posts: 2,900
    edited June 2017
    Quick runaround the various models....

    338 UKelects
    354 Britain Elects
    355 Ashcroft
    361 Electoral Calculus
    365 Hanretty

    ....and a few others:

    364 spreads midpoint via igindex (SPIN seem down, they're usually the same though)
    379 the Tory-best-poll method (Comres +12%. has worked really well since 97)
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 53,257

    I have still only seen one Green Party poster. And that is in our front window!

    Compensated for by the two Labour posters, I should add.

    There is a second one in a window in Leics South.
    I've seen a couple in Totnes.

    Unless the Labour oiks ripped them down too....
  • foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548
    Prodicus said:

    Driving in the beautiful Kentish countryside around Edenbridge this morning there was a massive Labour poster up in the garden of a barn conversion. I almost careered into the hedgerow. What the fcuk is going on?

    Here's what is going on: Corbyn is trendy, and right-on, and the Labour base is over-the-moon and totally enthused. Even in Surrey and Sussex Labour gets ~10% of the vote, and that's about 5,000 voters or so in each constituency.

    It only takes the very few who love him, and live in the country, a retired artist, or wealthy London commuter in the media, to stick up one poster to shock people.

    That's it.
    Rabble-rousing is easy for a specialist like Corbyn who's been honing his skill (and doing nothing else) for a lifetime, indulged by a party which alternately ignored and indulged him as an unthreatening souvenir of their own youthful fantasies. Or so they thought until the three-quidder black swan flew in.

    Unfortunately, rabbles include malevolent useful idiots whose pathological hobby is violence, threatened or actual along with highly intelligent revolutionaries (I.e., better brains than Corbyn's... e.g., Milne) who are only too happy to use them. Corbyn is presently captain of such a motley crew. The ship, however, is effectively pilotless and will founder. Sooner or later. Let's hope sooner, before too many people get hurt.

    So they are the Deplorables?

    Should be home and hosed then ;-)
  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 21,768

    Jonathan said:

    Jonathan said:

    Mortimer said:

    OldBasing said:

    Anecdotal:

    North East Hampshire: never before seen Labour posters in well-to-do rural villages.

    Sunday lunch pub conversation ( same constituency): four oldies, who I would have automatically put in the blue column, livid about winter fuel allowance. Talk of not voting Tory. Where there vote goes instead remains a mystery. Abstention? Damaged Tory core vote?

    Make of that what you will.

    I live in North East Hampshire. It's the safest Conservative seat in the country.

    Posters mean nothing, other than the very few Labour voters there are choosing to show their colours.

    There are dozens in Southampton Test, and zero Tory, and it also means nothing.
    Yup. There is a vote labour poster up opposite me. Not one Tory poster up in the street. From delivering around here I know that the Tory vote is strong, solid, supportive, but not wont to put up posters...
    The risk of abuse for being an open Conservative is a real factor.

    And that is something that the political classes have to deal with - and quickly.

    The level of vitriol from Left supporters to those on the Right (or in the centre) is so nasty, so cruel, so vindictive, it is understandable that the Shy Tory factor is getting bigger and bigger.

    Corbyn has shown himself unwilling to take action against his supporters who have sought to silence or attack their opponents. He is permitting a culture where verbal violence is acceptable and commonplace
    And they will go out in their millions on Thursday - quietly, softly, and determinedly - and vote Conservative. And Corbyn will be defeated.

    And the airwaves and social media will subsequently be filled with the biggest petulant strop ever known to humanity, at which those same Conservatives will quietly smile.

    And so it was.
    And yet Conservatives, often here and in places like the Daily Mail, churn out poisonous bile.
    You mean we disagree with you.

    The shame.
    You can disagree. But stop polishing your halo. Your lot are capable of churning out vile abuse.
    I don't need to polish it, it shines pure brilliance all by itself.
    Fools gold.
  • timmotimmo Posts: 1,469

    MattyNeth said:

    OldBasing said:

    Anecdotal:

    North East Hampshire: never before seen Labour posters in well-to-do rural villages.

    Sunday lunch pub conversation ( same constituency): four oldies, who I would have automatically put in the blue column, livid about winter fuel allowance. Talk of not voting Tory. Where there vote goes instead remains a mystery. Abstention? Damaged Tory core vote?

    Make of that what you will.

    I live in North East Hampshire. It's the safest Conservative seat in the country.

    Posters mean nothing, other than the very few Labour voters there are choosing to show their colours.

    There are dozens in Southampton Test, and zero Tory, and it also means nothing.
    Out cycling at the weekend, and not a single Conservative poster across Bournemouth East. A smattering for Conor Burns in Bournemouth West. Saw a single Labour activist in Bournemouth town centre handing out some leaflets to people who seemed interested - I saw hand out 1 as I walked up Commercial Road. One old lady cycling into Bournemouth with a Labout sticker on her basket.

    Out in the New Forest, a handful of posters for Desmond Swayne in Burley and that's that.

    This election is passing us by as usual down here....
    Take an average street of 100 houses: Acacia Avenue. You see 8 x Labour posters in the windows of 8 x houses, that is, every 5-6 houses or so you see a Labour poster, and *nothing* else.

    What do you think?

    You think, if you're a Tory, "Oh, f*ck. Labour are going to walk it round here".

    Why?

    Because your mind naturally interpolates and fills the houses in-between as Labour voters as well.

    Meanwhile, Crosby/Messina's data has 18 of those homes down as solid Cons, with a further 7 possibles and 6 waverers.

    And they are being knocked up, and firmed up, whilst ignoring the others regularly.

    What happens on the day?

    Tory votes: 27. Labour votes: 8 (+ maybe a couple of others)

    And you are shocked.
    Thats exactly what is happening in my area with the LDs.
    They are knocking on doors and when they find a LD voter tgeybplead with them to put a yellow triangle in the window. They believe its psychology..mind you they have gone one better than that and are ringing pretty much the whole constituency every couple of days from an Egyptian call centre in Alexandria..explain that one away on election expenses..
    Im sure OGH will give me the reason why that approach doesnt count towards election expenses..
  • MortimerMortimer Posts: 14,158

    Driving in the beautiful Kentish countryside around Edenbridge this morning there was a massive Labour poster up in the garden of a barn conversion. I almost careered into the hedgerow. What the fcuk is going on?

    Going on number of posters seen, the LDs are going to walk Oxford West and Abingdon - but that isn't how it works in the real world.
    Tory + UKIP in OWAB is 52.6% of the vote, and Labour voters won't be surging to back the Lib Dems this time.

    Nicola will be fine. More than fine, in fact.
    Lib Dems had a lead of over 3,500 over the Conservatives in the CC elections in OxWAB . They do need to get Labour voters in Jericho ward to vote for them to be able to win .
    Local elections are not the same as General Elections.

    Next.
    Also. Relying on Labour turnout in Jericho in June is brave......

    Many of the final year students will be in exam mode.
  • The_ApocalypseThe_Apocalypse Posts: 7,830
    The concert has been brilliant. Sent out a message of unity, strength and love. That we won't be divided and we certainly won't go demonising anyone who is different or looking for a scapegoat.
  • The_ApocalypseThe_Apocalypse Posts: 7,830

    Jonathan said:

    Jonathan said:

    Mortimer said:

    OldBasing said:

    Anecdotal:

    North East Hampshire: never before seen Labour posters in well-to-do rural villages.

    Sunday lunch pub conversation ( same constituency): four oldies, who I would have automatically put in the blue column, livid about winter fuel allowance. Talk of not voting Tory. Where there vote goes instead remains a mystery. Abstention? Damaged Tory core vote?

    Make of that what you will.

    I live in North East Hampshire. It's the safest Conservative seat in the country.

    Posters mean nothing, other than the very few Labour voters there are choosing to show their colours.

    There are dozens in Southampton Test, and zero Tory, and it also means nothing.
    Yup. There is a vote labour poster up opposite me. Not one Tory poster up in the street. From delivering around here I know that the Tory vote is strong, solid, supportive, but not wont to put up posters...
    The risk of abuse for being an open Conservative is a real factor.

    And that is something that the political classes have to deal with - and quickly.

    The level of vitriol from Left supporters to those on the Right (or in the centre) is so nasty, so cruel, so vindictive, it is understandable that the Shy Tory factor is getting bigger and bigger.

    Corbyn has shown himself unwilling to take action against his supporters who have sought to silence or attack their opponents. He is permitting a culture where verbal violence is acceptable and commonplace
    And they will go out in their millions on Thursday - quietly, softly, and determinedly - and vote Conservative. And Corbyn will be defeated.

    And the airwaves and social media will subsequently be filled with the biggest petulant strop ever known to humanity, at which those same Conservatives will quietly smile.

    And so it was.
    And yet Conservatives, often here and in places like the Daily Mail, churn out poisonous bile.
    You mean we disagree with you.

    The shame.
    You can disagree. But stop polishing your halo. Your lot are capable of churning out vile abuse.
    I don't need to polish it, it shines pure brilliance all by itself.
    You okay? None of us are so perfect as to have halos.
  • MarkSeniorMarkSenior Posts: 4,699
    timmo said:

    MattyNeth said:

    OldBasing said:

    Anecdotal:

    North East Hampshire: never before seen Labour posters in well-to-do rural villages.

    Sunday lunch pub conversation ( same constituency): four oldies, who I would have automatically put in the blue column, livid about winter fuel allowance. Talk of not voting Tory. Where there vote goes instead remains a mystery. Abstention? Damaged Tory core vote?

    Make of that what you will.

    I live in North East Hampshire. It's the safest Conservative seat in the country.

    Posters mean nothing, other than the very few Labour voters there are choosing to show their colours.

    There are dozens in Southampton Test, and zero Tory, and it also means nothing.
    Out cycling at the weekend, and not a single Conservative poster across Bournemouth East. A smattering for Conor Burns in Bournemouth West. Saw a single Labour activist in Bournemouth town centre handing out some leaflets to people who seemed interested - I saw hand out 1 as I walked up Commercial Road. One old lady cycling into Bournemouth with a Labout sticker on her basket.

    Out in the New Forest, a handful of posters for Desmond Swayne in Burley and that's that.

    This election is passing us by as usual down here....
    Take an average street of 100 houses: Acacia Avenue. You see 8 x Labour posters in the windows of 8 x houses, that is, every 5-6 houses or so you see a Labour poster, and *nothing* else.

    What do you think?

    You think, if you're a Tory, "Oh, f*ck. Labour are going to walk it round here".

    Why?

    Because your mind naturally interpolates and fills the houses in-between as Labour voters as well.

    Meanwhile, Crosby/Messina's data has 18 of those homes down as solid Cons, with a further 7 possibles and 6 waverers.

    And they are being knocked up, and firmed up, whilst ignoring the others regularly.

    What happens on the day?

    Tory votes: 27. Labour votes: 8 (+ maybe a couple of others)

    And you are shocked.
    Thats exactly what is happening in my area with the LDs.
    They are knocking on doors and when they find a LD voter tgeybplead with them to put a yellow triangle in the window. They believe its psychology..mind you they have gone one better than that and are ringing pretty much the whole constituency every couple of days from an Egyptian call centre in Alexandria..explain that one away on election expenses..
    Im sure OGH will give me the reason why that approach doesnt count towards election expenses..
    Ask HYUFD where his phone calls for the Conservatives appear in the accounts
  • MortimerMortimer Posts: 14,158
    Andrew said:

    Quick runaround the various models....

    338 UKelects
    354 Britain Elects
    355 Ashcroft
    361 Electoral Calculus
    365 Hanretty

    ....and a few others:

    364 spreads midpoint via igindex (SPIN seem down, they're usually the same though)
    379 the Tory-best-poll method (Comres +12%. has worked really well since 97)

    377 Mortimer :)
  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670
    rcs1000 said:

    Mortimer said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Mortimer said:

    So, after much tinkering, I've just finalised my model's prediction for the GE:

    CON: 377
    LAB: 198
    SNP: 45
    LD: 6
    Others: 24

    Of the 47 expected Tory gains I'm happy to report, without too much tinkering, that TP's Don Valley is listed.... Good luck Aaron!!

    I don't think that's an unreasonable estimate. Could I ask how your LD seats come out?

    I think they'll get 3/4 in Scotland.
    Plus Ceredgion.

    And then I'd reckon another 2-6 in England. To give me a range of 6 (at the low end), to 11 at the high.
    Course. I have those 6 as:

    Westmorland & Lonsdale
    Dunbartonshire East
    Orkney & Shetland
    Ceredigion
    Leeds North West
    Sheffield Hallam

    BUT:

    Edinburgh West
    Caithness, Sutherland & Easter Ross
    Fife North East

    Are all projected LD second and without MOE....
    I think Edinburgh West is by far the most likely LibDem gain in the country. Look at the results in the locals last month: they topped the poll in all three wards in constituency, and managed over 50% in the biggest (Almond). Sure, turnout will be down, but tactical voting will be up.

    I know I've mentioned it a lot but the Almond result is astonishing in its proportions. In a 4 member STV ward with 10 candidates to bust 50% of the vote, 40% for a single candidate is nuts.
  • RecidivistRecidivist Posts: 4,679

    Mortimer said:

    OldBasing said:

    Anecdotal:

    North East Hampshire: never before seen Labour posters in well-to-do rural villages.

    Sunday lunch pub conversation ( same constituency): four oldies, who I would have automatically put in the blue column, livid about winter fuel allowance. Talk of not voting Tory. Where there vote goes instead remains a mystery. Abstention? Damaged Tory core vote?

    Make of that what you will.

    I live in North East Hampshire. It's the safest Conservative seat in the country.

    Posters mean nothing, other than the very few Labour voters there are choosing to show their colours.

    There are dozens in Southampton Test, and zero Tory, and it also means nothing.
    Yup. There is a vote labour poster up opposite me. Not one Tory poster up in the street. From delivering around here I know that the Tory vote is strong, solid, supportive, but not wont to put up posters...
    The risk of abuse for being an open Conservative is a real factor.

    And that is something that the political classes have to deal with - and quickly.

    The level of vitriol from Left supporters to those on the Right (or in the centre) is so nasty, so cruel, so vindictive, it is understandable that the Shy Tory factor is getting bigger and bigger.

    Corbyn has shown himself unwilling to take action against his supporters who have sought to silence or attack their opponents. He is permitting a culture where verbal violence is acceptable and commonplace
    And they will go out in their millions on Thursday - quietly, softly, and determinedly - and vote Conservative. And Corbyn will be defeated.

    And the airwaves and social media will subsequently be filled with the biggest petulant strop ever known to humanity, at which those same Conservatives will quietly smile.

    And so it was.
    I am sure you are right that the Conservatives will win big on Thursday. But that doesn't mean that their opponents will be downhearted. If Labour has indeed united the left, then at least it is clear where the battle lines are. It was only a few months ago people were plausibly arguing that Labour might no longer even be the official opposition. With a Labour Party that can seriously compete for power in the next election in existence, the Tories will be a bit like Tigger after he lost his bounce.
  • surbitonsurbiton Posts: 13,549

    Pong said:

    Mortimer said:

    OldBasing said:

    Anecdotal:

    North East Hampshire: never before seen Labour posters in well-to-do rural villages.

    Sunday lunch pub conversation ( same constituency): four oldies, who I would have automatically put in the blue column, livid about winter fuel allowance. Talk of not voting Tory. Where there vote goes instead remains a mystery. Abstention? Damaged Tory core vote?

    Make of that what you will.

    I live in North East Hampshire. It's the safest Conservative seat in the country.

    Posters mean nothing, other than the very few Labour voters there are choosing to show their colours.

    There are dozens in Southampton Test, and zero Tory, and it also means nothing.
    Yup. There is a vote labour poster up opposite me. Not one Tory poster up in the street. From delivering around here I know that the Tory vote is strong, solid, supportive, but not wont to put up posters...
    The risk of abuse for being an open Conservative is a real factor.

    And that is something that the political classes have to deal with - and quickly.

    The level of vitriol from Left supporters to those on the Right (or in the centre) is so nasty, so cruel, so vindictive, it is understandable that the Shy Tory factor is getting bigger and bigger.

    Corbyn has shown himself unwilling to take action against his supporters who have sought to silence or attack their opponents. He is permitting a culture where verbal violence is acceptable and commonplace
    You logged onto this site within minutes of Gerald Kaufman dying and posted;

    "Hopefully the truth about Kaufman might start to emerge now."

    Far right types like you rival the far left in cruel and vindictive.
    Why is it cruel and vindictive to want the truth about that man to emerge? I am a strong believer in justice - and that demands that that truth is brought into the open.

    Describing someone like me as 'far right' shows how easy you find it to misrepresent and lie.
    You are definitely far right.
  • ChameleonChameleon Posts: 4,264

    I too have seen Labour placards in a field full of sheep - between Skipton and Colne.

    I also saw a house festooned with Labour posters in the village of Litton - basically the middle of nowhere in the Dales.

    A few normally Tory voting farmer acquaintances I know are very pissed-off at the prospect of losing their CAP subsidies. That might explain it.

    Ditto, I have them ticking the Lib Dem box this election.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 61,253

    Mortimer said:

    OldBasing said:

    Anecdotal:

    North East Hampshire: never before seen Labour posters in well-to-do rural villages.

    Sunday lunch pub conversation ( same constituency): four oldies, who I would have automatically put in the blue column, livid about winter fuel allowance. Talk of not voting Tory. Where there vote goes instead remains a mystery. Abstention? Damaged Tory core vote?

    Make of that what you will.

    I live in North East Hampshire. It's the safest Conservative seat in the country.

    Posters mean nothing, other than the very few Labour voters there are choosing to show their colours.

    There are dozens in Southampton Test, and zero Tory, and it also means nothing.
    Yup. There is a vote labour poster up opposite me. Not one Tory poster up in the street. From delivering around here I know that the Tory vote is strong, solid, supportive, but not wont to put up posters...
    The risk of abuse for being an open Conservative is a real factor.

    And that is something that the political classes have to deal with - and quickly.

    The level of vitriol from Left supporters to those on the Right (or in the centre) is so nasty, so cruel, so vindictive, it is understandable that the Shy Tory factor is getting bigger and bigger.

    Corbyn has shown himself unwilling to take action against his supporters who have sought to silence or attack their opponents. He is permitting a culture where verbal violence is acceptable and commonplace
    And they will go out in their millions on Thursday - quietly, softly, and determinedly - and vote Conservative. And Corbyn will be defeated.

    And the airwaves and social media will subsequently be filled with the biggest petulant strop ever known to humanity, at which those same Conservatives will quietly smile.

    And so it was.
    I am sure you are right that the Conservatives will win big on Thursday. But that doesn't mean that their opponents will be downhearted. If Labour has indeed united the left, then at least it is clear where the battle lines are. It was only a few months ago people were plausibly arguing that Labour might no longer even be the official opposition. With a Labour Party that can seriously compete for power in the next election in existence, the Tories will be a bit like Tigger after he lost his bounce.
    Do you remember what happened in the aftermath of the Tory victory in GE2015?

    Clue: they didn't take it very well.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 61,253

    Jonathan said:

    Jonathan said:

    Mortimer said:

    OldBasing said:

    Anecdotal:

    North East Hampshire: never before seen Labour posters in well-to-do rural villages.

    Sunday lunch pub conversation ( same constituency): four oldies, who I would have automatically put in the blue column, livid about winter fuel allowance. Talk of not voting Tory. Where there vote goes instead remains a mystery. Abstention? Damaged Tory core vote?

    Make of that what you will.

    I live in North East Hampshire. It's the safest Conservative seat in the country.

    Posters mean nothing, other than the very few Labour voters there are choosing to show their colours.

    There are dozens in Southampton Test, and zero Tory, and it also means nothing.
    Yup. There is a vote labour poster up opposite me. Not one Tory poster up in the street. From delivering around here I know that the Tory vote is strong, solid, supportive, but not wont to put up posters...
    The risk of abuse for being an open Conservative is a real factor.

    And that is something that the political classes have to deal with - and quickly.

    The level of vitriol from Left supporters to those on the Right (or in the centre) is so nasty, so cruel, so vindictive, it is understandable that the Shy Tory factor is getting bigger and bigger.

    Corbyn has shown himself unwilling to take action against his supporters who have sought to silence or attack their opponents. He is permitting a culture where verbal violence is acceptable and commonplace
    And they will go out in their millions on Thursday - quietly, softly, and determinedly - and vote Conservative. And Corbyn will be defeated.

    And the airwaves and social media will subsequently be filled with the biggest petulant strop ever known to humanity, at which those same Conservatives will quietly smile.

    And so it was.
    And yet Conservatives, often here and in places like the Daily Mail, churn out poisonous bile.
    You mean we disagree with you.

    The shame.
    You can disagree. But stop polishing your halo. Your lot are capable of churning out vile abuse.
    I don't need to polish it, it shines pure brilliance all by itself.
    You okay? None of us are so perfect as to have halos.
    I do. You can see it from the ISS.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 53,257
    rcs1000 said:


    I think Edinburgh West is by far the most likely LibDem gain in the country. Look at the results in the locals last month: they topped the poll in all three wards in constituency, and managed over 50% in the biggest (Almond). Sure, turnout will be down, but tactical voting will be up.

    My guess is that Leeds NW will fall to Labour (albeit it'll be very close). Fife NE will also be very close, as the LDs won it at Holyrood last year and topped the polls in the locals there last month. (Albeit by a small margin.)

    I also hope that Norman Lamb hangs on North Norfolk. I am Eurosceptic, socially liberal Conservative, and (frankly) think that the strand of liberalism he represents should be encouraged. I'd vote for him.

    And Twickenham is also a 50/50 shot for the LDs. Why? Partly Brexit, mostly Heathrow.

    How is an old LibDem retread like Vince going to change Govt. policy on Heathrow? Might as well get a Tory MP who at least stands a chance of getting the ear of the Minister, to try and win some concessions on the worst of the impact of the new runway....
  • oxfordsimonoxfordsimon Posts: 5,844
    Mortimer said:

    Driving in the beautiful Kentish countryside around Edenbridge this morning there was a massive Labour poster up in the garden of a barn conversion. I almost careered into the hedgerow. What the fcuk is going on?

    Going on number of posters seen, the LDs are going to walk Oxford West and Abingdon - but that isn't how it works in the real world.
    Tory + UKIP in OWAB is 52.6% of the vote, and Labour voters won't be surging to back the Lib Dems this time.

    Nicola will be fine. More than fine, in fact.
    Lib Dems had a lead of over 3,500 over the Conservatives in the CC elections in OxWAB . They do need to get Labour voters in Jericho ward to vote for them to be able to win .
    Local elections are not the same as General Elections.

    Next.
    Also. Relying on Labour turnout in Jericho in June is brave......

    Many of the final year students will be in exam mode.
    Assuming the students are registered in Oxford rather than at home with a postal vote. Another possibility being that they are registered at their college rather than where they are temporarily living for the current academic year - which will place them in Oxford East rather than OxWAb.

    Oxford Brookes students have already finished for the year - so who knows how that plays out.
  • MarkSeniorMarkSenior Posts: 4,699

    Driving in the beautiful Kentish countryside around Edenbridge this morning there was a massive Labour poster up in the garden of a barn conversion. I almost careered into the hedgerow. What the fcuk is going on?

    Going on number of posters seen, the LDs are going to walk Oxford West and Abingdon - but that isn't how it works in the real world.
    Tory + UKIP in OWAB is 52.6% of the vote, and Labour voters won't be surging to back the Lib Dems this time.

    Nicola will be fine. More than fine, in fact.
    Lib Dems had a lead of over 3,500 over the Conservatives in the CC elections in OxWAB . They do need to get Labour voters in Jericho ward to vote for them to be able to win .
    Local elections are not the same as General Elections.

    Next.
    True but in this GE all you Conservatives have offered not one positive reason to vote for Mts Weak and Wobbly . Loads and loads of reasons why Corbyn and or Labour will be bad but never ever a positive reason to vote for your party .
  • ChameleonChameleon Posts: 4,264

    Mortimer said:

    OldBasing said:

    Anecdotal:

    North East Hampshire: never before seen Labour posters in well-to-do rural villages.

    Sunday lunch pub conversation ( same constituency): four oldies, who I would have automatically put in the blue column, livid about winter fuel allowance. Talk of not voting Tory. Where there vote goes instead remains a mystery. Abstention? Damaged Tory core vote?

    Make of that what you will.

    I live in North East Hampshire. It's the safest Conservative seat in the country.

    Posters mean nothing, other than the very few Labour voters there are choosing to show their colours.

    There are dozens in Southampton Test, and zero Tory, and it also means nothing.
    Yup. There is a vote labour poster up opposite me. Not one Tory poster up in the street. From delivering around here I know that the Tory vote is strong, solid, supportive, but not wont to put up posters...
    The risk of abuse for being an open Conservative is a real factor.

    And that is something that the political classes have to deal with - and quickly.

    The level of vitriol from Left supporters to those on the Right (or in the centre) is so nasty, so cruel, so vindictive, it is understandable that the Shy Tory factor is getting bigger and bigger.

    Corbyn has shown himself unwilling to take action against his supporters who have sought to silence or attack their opponents. He is permitting a culture where verbal violence is acceptable and commonplace
    And they will go out in their millions on Thursday - quietly, softly, and determinedly - and vote Conservative. And Corbyn will be defeated.

    And the airwaves and social media will subsequently be filled with the biggest petulant strop ever known to humanity, at which those same Conservatives will quietly smile.

    And so it was.
    I am sure you are right that the Conservatives will win big on Thursday. But that doesn't mean that their opponents will be downhearted. If Labour has indeed united the left, then at least it is clear where the battle lines are. It was only a few months ago people were plausibly arguing that Labour might no longer even be the official opposition. With a Labour Party that can seriously compete for power in the next election in existence, the Tories will be a bit like Tigger after he lost his bounce.
    Do you remember what happened in the aftermath of the Tory victory in GE2015?

    Clue: they didn't take it very well.
    This will be 2015 times 100.
  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 21,768

    Jonathan said:

    Jonathan said:

    Mortimer said:

    OldBasing said:

    Anecdotal:

    North East Hampshire: never before seen Labour posters in well-to-do rural villages.

    Sunday lunch pub conversation ( same constituency): four oldies, who I would have automatically put in the blue column, livid about winter fuel allowance. Talk of not voting Tory. Where there vote goes instead remains a mystery. Abstention? Damaged Tory core vote?

    Make of that what you will.

    I live in North East Hampshire. It's the safest Conservative seat in the country.

    Posters mean nothing, other than the very few Labour voters there are choosing to show their colours.

    There are dozens in Southampton Test, and zero Tory, and it also means nothing.
    Yup. There is a vote labour poster up opposite me. Not one Tory poster up in the street. From delivering around here I know that the Tory vote is strong, solid, supportive, but not wont to put up posters...
    The risk of abuse for being an open Conservative is a real factor.

    And that is something that the political classes have to deal with - and quickly.

    The level of vitriol from Left supporters to those on the Right (or in the centre) is so nasty, so cruel, so vindictive, it is understandable that the Shy Tory factor is getting bigger and bigger.

    Corbyn has shown himself unwilling to take action against his supporters who have sought to silence or attack their opponents. He is permitting a culture where verbal violence is acceptable and commonplace
    And they will go out in their millions on Thursday - quietly, softly, and determinedly - and vote Conservative. And Corbyn will be defeated.

    And the airwaves and social media will subsequently be filled with the biggest petulant strop ever known to humanity, at which those same Conservatives will quietly smile.

    And so it was.
    And yet Conservatives, often here and in places like the Daily Mail, churn out poisonous bile.
    You mean we disagree with you.

    The shame.
    You can disagree. But stop polishing your halo. Your lot are capable of churning out vile abuse.
    I don't need to polish it, it shines pure brilliance all by itself.
    You okay? None of us are so perfect as to have halos.
    I do. You can see it from the ISS.
    Bald patch. Not a halo.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,635
    edited June 2017
    3 Labour posters up in Norwood Crescent, Killamarsh. Seems the strongest area of the village for some reason.
    The Labour board at the end of my road that was up in 2015 isn't there any more...
    More than there were for the locals I guess. Putting a Tory, or frankly a Lib Dem poster up here would certainly be "brave" so you can't read much into it quite honestly.
  • oxfordsimonoxfordsimon Posts: 5,844
    surbiton said:

    Pong said:

    Mortimer said:

    OldBasing said:

    Anecdotal:

    North East Hampshire: never before seen Labour posters in well-to-do rural villages.

    Sunday lunch pub conversation ( same constituency): four oldies, who I would have automatically put in the blue column, livid about winter fuel allowance. Talk of not voting Tory. Where there vote goes instead remains a mystery. Abstention? Damaged Tory core vote?

    Make of that what you will.

    I live in North East Hampshire. It's the safest Conservative seat in the country.

    Posters mean nothing, other than the very few Labour voters there are choosing to show their colours.

    There are dozens in Southampton Test, and zero Tory, and it also means nothing.
    Yup. There is a vote labour poster up opposite me. Not one Tory poster up in the street. From delivering around here I know that the Tory vote is strong, solid, supportive, but not wont to put up posters...
    The risk of abuse for being an open Conservative is a real factor.

    And that is something that the political classes have to deal with - and quickly.

    The level of vitriol from Left supporters to those on the Right (or in the centre) is so nasty, so cruel, so vindictive, it is understandable that the Shy Tory factor is getting bigger and bigger.

    Corbyn has shown himself unwilling to take action against his supporters who have sought to silence or attack their opponents. He is permitting a culture where verbal violence is acceptable and commonplace
    You logged onto this site within minutes of Gerald Kaufman dying and posted;

    "Hopefully the truth about Kaufman might start to emerge now."

    Far right types like you rival the far left in cruel and vindictive.
    Why is it cruel and vindictive to want the truth about that man to emerge? I am a strong believer in justice - and that demands that that truth is brought into the open.

    Describing someone like me as 'far right' shows how easy you find it to misrepresent and lie.
    You are definitely far right.
    Go on - produce your evidence.
  • midwintermidwinter Posts: 1,112
    Mortimer said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Mortimer said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Mortimer said:

    So, after much tinkering, I've just finalised my model's prediction for the GE:

    CON: 377
    LAB: 198
    SNP: 45
    LD: 6
    Others: 24

    Of the 47 expected Tory gains I'm happy to report, without too much tinkering, that TP's Don Valley is listed.... Good luck Aaron!!

    I don't think that's an unreasonable estimate. Could I ask how your LD seats come out?

    I think they'll get 3/4 in Scotland.
    Plus Ceredgion.

    And then I'd reckon another 2-6 in England. To give me a range of 6 (at the low end), to 11 at the high.
    Course. I have those 6 as:

    Westmorland & Lonsdale
    Dunbartonshire East
    Orkney & Shetland
    Ceredigion
    Leeds North West (MOE only)
    Sheffield Hallam (MOE only)

    BUT:

    Edinburgh West
    Caithness, Sutherland & Easter Ross
    Fife North East

    Are all projected LD second and without MOE....
    Who do you have as closest challengers in Leeds NW and Hallam ?

    How does Twickenham and Kingston also look ?
    (Of course any model will have Richmond Park safely with the Tories)
    Lab in both Leeds and Sheff H.

    Twickenham, Tories by 6%
    Kingston, Tories by 7%

    And yep you're right - even I'm hoping my model is wrong on RP. Currently showing Con by 41%......

    Out of interest what does your model predict for Hove if you don't mind saying. I think Labour should be comfortably odds on here and 11/10 is great value. I'm on at 9/4 and trying to persuade myself not to go in again! After all even the posh boys couldn't hold on in 2015!!!
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 61,253

    Driving in the beautiful Kentish countryside around Edenbridge this morning there was a massive Labour poster up in the garden of a barn conversion. I almost careered into the hedgerow. What the fcuk is going on?

    Going on number of posters seen, the LDs are going to walk Oxford West and Abingdon - but that isn't how it works in the real world.
    Tory + UKIP in OWAB is 52.6% of the vote, and Labour voters won't be surging to back the Lib Dems this time.

    Nicola will be fine. More than fine, in fact.
    Lib Dems had a lead of over 3,500 over the Conservatives in the CC elections in OxWAB . They do need to get Labour voters in Jericho ward to vote for them to be able to win .
    Local elections are not the same as General Elections.

    Next.
    True but in this GE all you Conservatives have offered not one positive reason to vote for Mts Weak and Wobbly . Loads and loads of reasons why Corbyn and or Labour will be bad but never ever a positive reason to vote for your party .
    Right, the Conservatives won't win in OWAB this time because you don't like their message.

    Got it.
  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 22,448
    RobD said:

    Only four days to go until the exit poll is announced! I can just hear the bongs at ten now....

    I think the exit poll is probably the best part of the whole night for me...
  • RobDRobD Posts: 60,145
    GIN1138 said:

    RobD said:

    Only four days to go until the exit poll is announced! I can just hear the bongs at ten now....

    I think the exit poll is probably the best part of the whole night for me...
    I'm in a bit of a pickle. The time lag on iPlayer is ~1 minute. Do I just not look at PB for a whole minute? Not sure I can manage that.... :p
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 61,253
    Best thing to do:

    (1) Log-on to Facebook at 10.01pm on Thursday.
    (2) Go to 'update your status'
    (3) Write: "Looooooooooooooooooooooollllllll!!!!!!!!!!!!!"
  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 22,448
    Anyone know whether Survation is going to be worth staying up for (I'm assuming it'll be released at midnight?)
  • foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548
    Andrew said:

    Quick runaround the various models....

    338 UKelects
    354 Britain Elects
    355 Ashcroft
    361 Electoral Calculus
    365 Hanretty

    ....and a few others:

    364 spreads midpoint via igindex (SPIN seem down, they're usually the same though)
    379 the Tory-best-poll method (Comres +12%. has worked really well since 97)

    My prediction with 96 hours to go.

    362 Con
    215 Lab
    40 SNP
    11 LD
    18 NI
    3 PC
    1 Gn
  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 22,448
    RobD said:

    GIN1138 said:

    RobD said:

    Only four days to go until the exit poll is announced! I can just hear the bongs at ten now....

    I think the exit poll is probably the best part of the whole night for me...
    I'm in a bit of a pickle. The time lag on iPlayer is ~1 minute. Do I just not look at PB for a whole minute? Not sure I can manage that.... :p
    You have to... You can't ruin the drama of the Big Ben Bongs by logging on to PB...
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,894

    glw said:

    Farron's performance against Neil won't have helped. He has had a dreadful campaign.

    He was a poor choice from a very limited pool. Lamb would have been a least a little better.
    A little - but unlikely now to hold his Norfolk seat.

    It is very hard to see who will replace Farron - the pool will be very small.
    Jo Swinson, if she wins East Dunbartonshire (which I think is the least likely of the potential Scottish gains for the LDs).

    Nick Clegg, if he holds Sheffield Hallam (which I suspect he will).
  • RobDRobD Posts: 60,145
    GIN1138 said:

    RobD said:

    GIN1138 said:

    RobD said:

    Only four days to go until the exit poll is announced! I can just hear the bongs at ten now....

    I think the exit poll is probably the best part of the whole night for me...
    I'm in a bit of a pickle. The time lag on iPlayer is ~1 minute. Do I just not look at PB for a whole minute? Not sure I can manage that.... :p
    You have to... You can't ruin the drama of the Big Ben Bongs by logging on to PB...
    I (somehow) managed in 2015....
  • MortimerMortimer Posts: 14,158
    edited June 2017
    midwinter said:

    Mortimer said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Mortimer said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Mortimer said:

    So, after much tinkering, I've just finalised my model's prediction for the GE:

    CON: 377
    LAB: 198
    SNP: 45
    LD: 6
    Others: 24

    Of the 47 expected Tory gains I'm happy to report, without too much tinkering, that TP's Don Valley is listed.... Good luck Aaron!!

    I don't think that's an unreasonable estimate. Could I ask how your LD seats come out?

    I think they'll get 3/4 in Scotland.
    Plus Ceredgion.

    And then I'd reckon another 2-6 in England. To give me a range of 6 (at the low end), to 11 at the high.
    Course. I have those 6 as:

    Westmorland & Lonsdale
    Dunbartonshire East
    Orkney & Shetland
    Ceredigion
    Leeds North West (MOE only)
    Sheffield Hallam (MOE only)

    BUT:

    Edinburgh West
    Caithness, Sutherland & Easter Ross
    Fife North East

    Are all projected LD second and without MOE....
    Who do you have as closest challengers in Leeds NW and Hallam ?

    How does Twickenham and Kingston also look ?
    (Of course any model will have Richmond Park safely with the Tories)
    Lab in both Leeds and Sheff H.

    Twickenham, Tories by 6%
    Kingston, Tories by 7%

    And yep you're right - even I'm hoping my model is wrong on RP. Currently showing Con by 41%......

    Out of interest what does your model predict for Hove if you don't mind saying. I think Labour should be comfortably odds on here and 11/10 is great value. I'm on at 9/4 and trying to persuade myself not to go in again! After all even the posh boys couldn't hold on in 2015!!!
    Lab 46%, Con 40%....

    But, as ever, DYOR :)
  • SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 39,773

    Mortimer said:

    OldBasing said:

    Anecdotal:

    North East Hampshire: never before seen Labour posters in well-to-do rural villages.

    Sunday lunch pub conversation ( same constituency): four oldies, who I would have automatically put in the blue column, livid about winter fuel allowance. Talk of not voting Tory. Where there vote goes instead remains a mystery. Abstention? Damaged Tory core vote?

    Make of that what you will.

    I live in North East Hampshire. It's the safest Conservative seat in the country.

    Posters mean nothing, other than the very few Labour voters there are choosing to show their colours.

    There are dozens in Southampton Test, and zero Tory, and it also means nothing.
    Yup. There is a vote labour poster up opposite me. Not one Tory poster up in the street. From delivering around here I know that the Tory vote is strong, solid, supportive, but not wont to put up posters...
    The risk of abuse for being an open Conservative is a real factor.

    And that is something that the political classes have to deal with - and quickly.

    The level of vitriol from Left supporters to those on the Right (or in the centre) is so nasty, so cruel, so vindictive, it is understandable that the Shy Tory factor is getting bigger and bigger.

    Corbyn has shown himself unwilling to take action against his supporters who have sought to silence or attack their opponents. He is permitting a culture where verbal violence is acceptable and commonplace
    And they will go out in their millions on Thursday - quietly, softly, and determinedly - and vote Conservative. And Corbyn will be defeated.

    And the airwaves and social media will subsequently be filled with the biggest petulant strop ever known to humanity, at which those same Conservatives will quietly smile.

    And so it was.
    I am sure you are right that the Conservatives will win big on Thursday. But that doesn't mean that their opponents will be downhearted. If Labour has indeed united the left, then at least it is clear where the battle lines are. It was only a few months ago people were plausibly arguing that Labour might no longer even be the official opposition. With a Labour Party that can seriously compete for power in the next election in existence, the Tories will be a bit like Tigger after he lost his bounce.

    May has promised a stronger, fairer, more prosperous Britain. On 9th June she has to start delivering. Good luck Theresa :-D

  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 21,768

    Mortimer said:

    OldBasing said:

    Anecdotal:

    North East Hampshire: never before seen Labour posters in well-to-do rural villages.

    Sunday lunch pub conversation ( same constituency): four oldies, who I would have automatically put in the blue column, livid about winter fuel allowance. Talk of not voting Tory. Where there vote goes instead remains a mystery. Abstention? Damaged Tory core vote?

    Make of that what you will.

    I live in North East Hampshire. It's the safest Conservative seat in the country.

    Posters mean nothing, other than the very few Labour voters there are choosing to show their colours.

    There are dozens in Southampton Test, and zero Tory, and it also means nothing.
    Yup. There is a vote labour poster up opposite me. Not one Tory poster up in the street. From delivering around here I know that the Tory vote is strong, solid, supportive, but not wont to put up posters...
    The risk of abuse for being an open Conservative is a real factor.

    And that is something that the political classes have to deal with - and quickly.

    The level of vitriol from Left supporters to those on the Right (or in the centre) is so nasty, so cruel, so vindictive, it is understandable that the Shy Tory factor is getting bigger and bigger.

    Corbyn has shown himself unwilling to take action against his supporters who have sought to silence or attack their opponents. He is permitting a culture where verbal violence is acceptable and commonplace
    And they will go out in their millions on Thursday - quietly, softly, and determinedly - and vote Conservative. And Corbyn will be defeated.

    And the airwaves and social media will subsequently be filled with the biggest petulant strop ever known to humanity, at which those same Conservatives will quietly smile.

    And so it was.
    I am sure you are right that the Conservatives will win big on Thursday. But that doesn't mean that their opponents will be downhearted. If Labour has indeed united the left, then at least it is clear where the battle lines are. It was only a few months ago people were plausibly arguing that Labour might no longer even be the official opposition. With a Labour Party that can seriously compete for power in the next election in existence, the Tories will be a bit like Tigger after he lost his bounce.

    May has promised a stronger, fairer, more prosperous Britain. On 9th June she has to start delivering. Good luck Theresa :-D

    It's going to be brutal.
  • KentRisingKentRising Posts: 2,917

    Best thing to do:

    (1) Log-on to Facebook at 10.01pm on Thursday.
    (2) Go to 'update your status'
    (3) Write: "Looooooooooooooooooooooollllllll!!!!!!!!!!!!!"

    Hmmm, hubris, Casino. I don't like this overconfidence!
  • glwglw Posts: 10,006

    The concert has been brilliant. Sent out a message of unity, strength and love. That we won't be divided and we certainly won't go demonising anyone who is different or looking for a scapegoat.

    I don't agree with that. If terrorists carry out a Beslan like attack in London or Paris I suspect all the happy-clappy stuff would be straight in the bin.
  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 22,448
    RobD said:

    GIN1138 said:

    RobD said:

    GIN1138 said:

    RobD said:

    Only four days to go until the exit poll is announced! I can just hear the bongs at ten now....

    I think the exit poll is probably the best part of the whole night for me...
    I'm in a bit of a pickle. The time lag on iPlayer is ~1 minute. Do I just not look at PB for a whole minute? Not sure I can manage that.... :p
    You have to... You can't ruin the drama of the Big Ben Bongs by logging on to PB...
    I (somehow) managed in 2015....
    I remember my jaw dropping when I saw what the exit poll was projecting in 2015! ;|)
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 22,761
    GIN1138 said:

    Anyone know whether Survation is going to be worth staying up for (I'm assuming it'll be released at midnight?)

    It's been delayed to tomorrow for Tuesday's programme according to Survation
  • ProdicusProdicus Posts: 658
    Chameleon said:

    Mortimer said:

    OldBasing said:

    Anecdotal:

    North East Hampshire: never before seen Labour posters in well-to-do rural villages.

    Sunday lunch pub conversation ( same constituency): four oldies, who I would have automatically put in the blue column, livid about winter fuel allowance. Talk of not voting Tory. Where there vote goes instead remains a mystery. Abstention? Damaged Tory core vote?

    Make of that what you will.

    I live in North East Hampshire. It's the safest Conservative seat in the country.

    Posters mean nothing, other than the very few Labour voters there are choosing to show their colours.

    There are dozens in Southampton Test, and zero Tory, and it also means nothing.
    Yup. There is a vote labour poster up opposite me. Not one Tory poster up in the street. From delivering around here I know that the Tory vote is strong, solid, supportive, but not wont to put up posters...
    The risk of abuse for being an open Conservative is a real factor.

    And that is something that the political classes have to deal with - and quickly.

    The level of vitriol from Left supporters to those on the Right (or in the centre) is so nasty, so cruel, so vindictive, it is understandable that the Shy Tory factor is getting bigger and bigger.

    Corbyn has shown himself unwilling to take action against his supporters who have sought to silence or attack their opponents. He is permitting a culture where verbal violence is acceptable and commonplace
    And they will go out in their millions on Thursday - quietly, softly, and determinedly - and vote Conservative. And Corbyn will be defeated.

    And the airwaves and social media will subsequently be filled with the biggest petulant strop ever known to humanity, at which those same Conservatives will quietly smile.

    And so it was.
    I am sure you are right that the Conservatives will win big on Thursday. But that doesn't mean that their opponents will be downhearted. If Labour has indeed united the left, then at least it is clear where the battle lines are. It was only a few months ago people were plausibly arguing that Labour might no longer even be the official opposition. With a Labour Party that can seriously compete for power in the next election in existence, the Tories will be a bit like Tigger after he lost his bounce.
    Do you remember what happened in the aftermath of the Tory victory in GE2015?

    Clue: they didn't take it very well.
    This will be 2015 times 100.
    Democrats, eh?

  • RobDRobD Posts: 60,145

    GIN1138 said:

    Anyone know whether Survation is going to be worth staying up for (I'm assuming it'll be released at midnight?)

    It's been delayed to tomorrow for Tuesday's programme according to Survation
    Thanks, BJO.
  • ChameleonChameleon Posts: 4,264
    rcs1000 said:

    glw said:

    Farron's performance against Neil won't have helped. He has had a dreadful campaign.

    He was a poor choice from a very limited pool. Lamb would have been a least a little better.
    A little - but unlikely now to hold his Norfolk seat.

    It is very hard to see who will replace Farron - the pool will be very small.
    Jo Swinson, if she wins East Dunbartonshire (which I think is the least likely of the potential Scottish gains for the LDs).

    Nick Clegg, if he holds Sheffield Hallam (which I suspect he will).
    Please Clegg, steer the Liberal Democrats away from the lefty, social conservatism that tiny tim seems so keen on.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 53,257
    timmo said:



    Thats exactly what is happening in my area with the LDs.
    They are knocking on doors and when they find a LD voter tgeybplead with them to put a yellow triangle in the window. They believe its psychology..

    I had a drive around a couple of the big council estates in Torquay today. 2015 they were full of the LibDem triangles in the windows. Today - apart from the usual eye-catching pitch at an entrance, that they have cultivated over a couple of decades - I saw 4 LibDems. That was big garden signs included. Four. Streets that last time had half a dozen now have none.

    Looks like the LibDems are being bled dry down here by Labour (and some transfers to the Tories too). Which won't do either the LibDems or way-back-in-fourth Labour any good whatsoever. Apart from in the national opinion polls....
  • MarkSeniorMarkSenior Posts: 4,699

    Driving in the beautiful Kentish countryside around Edenbridge this morning there was a massive Labour poster up in the garden of a barn conversion. I almost careered into the hedgerow. What the fcuk is going on?

    Going on number of posters seen, the LDs are going to walk Oxford West and Abingdon - but that isn't how it works in the real world.
    Tory + UKIP in OWAB is 52.6% of the vote, and Labour voters won't be surging to back the Lib Dems this time.

    Nicola will be fine. More than fine, in fact.
    Lib Dems had a lead of over 3,500 over the Conservatives in the CC elections in OxWAB . They do need to get Labour voters in Jericho ward to vote for them to be able to win .
    Local elections are not the same as General Elections.

    Next.
    True but in this GE all you Conservatives have offered not one positive reason to vote for Mts Weak and Wobbly . Loads and loads of reasons why Corbyn and or Labour will be bad but never ever a positive reason to vote for your party .
    Right, the Conservatives won't win in OWAB this time because you don't like their message.

    Got it.
    I have not said the Conservatives will not win OxWAB but the reason they have been going backwards in all the polls is the lack of any positive reasons to vote for them . Negativity will work to an extent but will not enthuse voters .
  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 22,448
    edited June 2017

    GIN1138 said:

    Anyone know whether Survation is going to be worth staying up for (I'm assuming it'll be released at midnight?)

    It's been delayed to tomorrow for Tuesday's programme according to Survation
    Oh!

    Thanks anyway BJO. :D
  • ChameleonChameleon Posts: 4,264

    Mortimer said:

    OldBasing said:

    Anecdotal:

    North East Hampshire: never before seen Labour posters in well-to-do rural villages.

    Sunday lunch pub conversation ( same constituency): four oldies, who I would have automatically put in the blue column, livid about winter fuel allowance. Talk of not voting Tory. Where there vote goes instead remains a mystery. Abstention? Damaged Tory core vote?

    Make of that what you will.

    I live in North East Hampshire. It's the safest Conservative seat in the country.

    Posters mean nothing, other than the very few Labour voters there are choosing to show their colours.

    There are dozens in Southampton Test, and zero Tory, and it also means nothing.
    Yup. There is a vote labour poster up opposite me. Not one Tory poster up in the street. From delivering around here I know that the Tory vote is strong, solid, supportive, but not wont to put up posters...
    The risk of abuse for being an open Conservative is a real factor.

    And that is something that the political classes have to deal with - and quickly.

    The level of vitriol from Left supporters to those on the Right (or in the centre) is so nasty, so cruel, so vindictive, it is understandable that the Shy Tory factor is getting bigger and bigger.

    Corbyn has shown himself unwilling to take action against his supporters who have sought to silence or attack their opponents. He is permitting a culture where verbal violence is acceptable and commonplace
    And they will go out in their millions on Thursday - quietly, softly, and determinedly - and vote Conservative. And Corbyn will be defeated.

    And the airwaves and social media will subsequently be filled with the biggest petulant strop ever known to humanity, at which those same Conservatives will quietly smile.

    And so it was.
    I am sure you are right that the Conservatives will win big on Thursday. But that doesn't mean that their opponents will be downhearted. If Labour has indeed united the left, then at least it is clear where the battle lines are. It was only a few months ago people were plausibly arguing that Labour might no longer even be the official opposition. With a Labour Party that can seriously compete for power in the next election in existence, the Tories will be a bit like Tigger after he lost his bounce.

    May has promised a stronger, fairer, more prosperous Britain. On 9th June she has to start delivering. Good luck Theresa :-D

    She's screwed.
  • Ishmael_ZIshmael_Z Posts: 8,981

    The concert has been brilliant. Sent out a message of unity, strength and love. That we won't be divided and we certainly won't go demonising anyone who is different or looking for a scapegoat.

    Are you characterising Muslims as "different"? In what way "different"? Different from you? Different from what they should be? Different from Christians? It's unusual to see the inherent racism of the UK left so explicitly stated (except of course where Jews are involved).
  • RobDRobD Posts: 60,145
    edited June 2017
    GIN1138 said:

    RobD said:

    GIN1138 said:

    RobD said:

    GIN1138 said:

    RobD said:

    Only four days to go until the exit poll is announced! I can just hear the bongs at ten now....

    I think the exit poll is probably the best part of the whole night for me...
    I'm in a bit of a pickle. The time lag on iPlayer is ~1 minute. Do I just not look at PB for a whole minute? Not sure I can manage that.... :p
    You have to... You can't ruin the drama of the Big Ben Bongs by logging on to PB...
    I (somehow) managed in 2015....
    I remember my jaw dropping when I saw what the exit poll was projecting in 2015! ;|)
    Just in case you want to experience that again - :D

    https://youtu.be/VjJDyIAI4SI?t=4m40s
  • MortimerMortimer Posts: 14,158
    GIN1138 said:

    RobD said:

    GIN1138 said:

    RobD said:

    GIN1138 said:

    RobD said:

    Only four days to go until the exit poll is announced! I can just hear the bongs at ten now....

    I think the exit poll is probably the best part of the whole night for me...
    I'm in a bit of a pickle. The time lag on iPlayer is ~1 minute. Do I just not look at PB for a whole minute? Not sure I can manage that.... :p
    You have to... You can't ruin the drama of the Big Ben Bongs by logging on to PB...
    I (somehow) managed in 2015....
    I remember my jaw dropping when I saw what the exit poll was projecting in 2015! ;|)
    My shouted air punch was audible 3 streets away, I reckon....
  • foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548
    surbiton said:

    Pong said:

    Mortimer said:

    OldBasing said:

    Anecdotal:

    North East Hampshire: never before seen Labour posters in well-to-do rural villages.

    Sunday lunch pub conversation ( same constituency): four oldies, who I would have automatically put in the blue column, livid about winter fuel allowance. Talk of not voting Tory. Where there vote goes instead remains a mystery. Abstention? Damaged Tory core vote?

    Make of that what you will.

    I live in North East Hampshire. It's the safest Conservative seat in the country.

    Posters mean nothing, other than the very few Labour voters there are choosing to show their colours.

    There are dozens in Southampton Test, and zero Tory, and it also means nothing.
    Yup. There is a vote labour poster up opposite me. Not one Tory poster up in the street. From delivering around here I know that the Tory vote is strong, solid, supportive, but not wont to put up posters...
    The risk of abuse for being an open Conservative is a real factor.

    And that is something that the political classes have to deal with - and quickly.

    The level of vitriol from Left supporters to those on the Right (or in the centre) is so nasty, so cruel, so vindictive, it is understandable that the Shy Tory factor is getting bigger and bigger.

    Corbyn has shown himself unwilling to take action against his supporters who have sought to silence or attack their opponents. He is permitting a culture where verbal violence is acceptable and commonplace
    You logged onto this site within minutes of Gerald Kaufman dying and posted;

    "Hopefully the truth about Kaufman might start to emerge now."

    Far right types like you rival the far left in cruel and vindictive.
    Why is it cruel and vindictive to want the truth about that man to emerge? I am a strong believer in justice - and that demands that that truth is brought into the open.

    Describing someone like me as 'far right' shows how easy you find it to misrepresent and lie.
    You are definitely far right.
    He is in the sensible middle ground between Norman Tebbitt and Augusto Pinochet.
  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 21,768
    Curious thought. If Tories win, all they done is won two extra years. That's it. Barely makes a difference really. Not even half another term.
  • ChrisChris Posts: 11,783
    glw said:

    The concert has been brilliant. Sent out a message of unity, strength and love. That we won't be divided and we certainly won't go demonising anyone who is different or looking for a scapegoat.

    I don't agree with that. If terrorists carry out a Beslan like attack in London or Paris I suspect all the happy-clappy stuff would be straight in the bin.
    It rather depends how many people are too stupid to see that's the whole idea!
  • BigRichBigRich Posts: 3,492
    timmo said:

    MattyNeth said:

    OldBasing said:

    Anecdotal:

    North East Hampshire: never before seen Labour posters in well-to-do rural villages.

    Sunday lunch pub conversation ( same constituency): four oldies, who I would have automatically put in the blue column, livid about winter fuel allowance. Talk of not voting Tory. Where there vote goes instead remains a mystery. Abstention? Damaged Tory core vote?

    Make of that what you will.

    I live in North East Hampshire. It's the safest Conservative seat in the country.

    Posters mean nothing, other than the very few Labour voters there are choosing to show their colours.

    There are dozens in Southampton Test, and zero Tory, and it also means nothing.
    Out cycling at the weekend, and not a single Conservative poster across Bournemouth East. A smattering for Conor Burns in Bournemouth West. Saw a single Labour activist in Bournemouth town centre handing out some leaflets to people who seemed interested - I saw hand out 1 as I walked up Commercial Road. One old lady cycling into Bournemouth with a Labout sticker on her basket.

    Out in the New Forest, a handful of posters for Desmond Swayne in Burley and that's that.

    This election is passing us by as usual down here....
    Take an average street of 100 houses: Acacia Avenue. You see 8 x Labour posters in the windows of 8 x houses, that is, every 5-6 houses or so you see a Labour poster, and *nothing* else.

    What do you think?

    You think, if you're a Tory, "Oh, f*ck. Labour are going to walk it round here".

    Why?

    Because your mind naturally interpolates and fills the houses in-between as Labour voters as well.

    Meanwhile, Crosby/Messina's data has 18 of those homes down as solid Cons, with a further 7 possibles and 6 waverers.

    And they are being knocked up, and firmed up, whilst ignoring the others regularly.

    What happens on the day?

    Tory votes: 27. Labour votes: 8 (+ maybe a couple of others)

    And you are shocked.
    Thats exactly what is happening in my area with the LDs.
    They are knocking on doors and when they find a LD voter tgeybplead with them to put a yellow triangle in the window. They believe its psychology..mind you they have gone one better than that and are ringing pretty much the whole constituency every couple of days from an Egyptian call centre in Alexandria..explain that one away on election expenses..
    Im sure OGH will give me the reason why that approach doesnt count towards election expenses..
    Do you have any evidence to support that allegation? a link to an blog post for example? It might be correct, but it just does net sound plasable to me.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 60,145
    Jonathan said:

    Curious thought. If Tories win, all they done is won two extra years. That's it. Barely makes a difference really. Not even half another term.

    I'm not so sure about that, especially if the majority is larger.
  • oxfordsimonoxfordsimon Posts: 5,844

    surbiton said:

    Pong said:

    Mortimer said:

    OldBasing said:

    Anecdotal:

    North East Hampshire: never before seen Labour posters in well-to-do rural villages.

    Sunday lunch pub conversation ( same constituency): four oldies, who I would have automatically put in the blue column, livid about winter fuel allowance. Talk of not voting Tory. Where there vote goes instead remains a mystery. Abstention? Damaged Tory core vote?

    Make of that what you will.

    I live in North East Hampshire. It's the safest Conservative seat in the country.

    Posters mean nothing, other than the very few Labour voters there are choosing to show their colours.

    There are dozens in Southampton Test, and zero Tory, and it also means nothing.
    Yup. There is a vote labour poster up opposite me. Not one Tory poster up in the street. From delivering around here I know that the Tory vote is strong, solid, supportive, but not wont to put up posters...
    The risk of abuse for being an open Conservative is a real factor.

    And that is something that the political classes have to deal with - and quickly.

    The level of vitriol from Left supporters to those on the Right (or in the centre) is so nasty, so cruel, so vindictive, it is understandable that the Shy Tory factor is getting bigger and bigger.

    Corbyn has shown himself unwilling to take action against his supporters who have sought to silence or attack their opponents. He is permitting a culture where verbal violence is acceptable and commonplace
    You logged onto this site within minutes of Gerald Kaufman dying and posted;

    "Hopefully the truth about Kaufman might start to emerge now."

    Far right types like you rival the far left in cruel and vindictive.
    Why is it cruel and vindictive to want the truth about that man to emerge? I am a strong believer in justice - and that demands that that truth is brought into the open.

    Describing someone like me as 'far right' shows how easy you find it to misrepresent and lie.
    You are definitely far right.
    He is in the sensible middle ground between Norman Tebbitt and Augusto Pinochet.
    Could you make yourselves look any more foolish with this ridiculous attempt at smearing me?
  • Richard_TyndallRichard_Tyndall Posts: 32,726
    Ishmael_Z said:

    The concert has been brilliant. Sent out a message of unity, strength and love. That we won't be divided and we certainly won't go demonising anyone who is different or looking for a scapegoat.

    Are you characterising Muslims as "different"? In what way "different"? Different from you? Different from what they should be? Different from Christians? It's unusual to see the inherent racism of the UK left so explicitly stated (except of course where Jews are involved).
    I have to say I think this comment from you takes the biscuit for twisting both the words and the sentiment of what Apocalypse has said. Kind of unnecessary and reflects poorly on you.
  • Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 30,822
    On topic: If indeed it is the case that Theresa May has only a small or even no advantage over Jeremy Corbyn, then it's not Tories who need to be worried, it's the United Kingdom. Never before, in the 50 years or so that I've been following politics, has either main party put forward a more fantastical, incompetent, unprepared, economically illiterate, disunited, and dangerous - not to mention vile - front bench as Labour are proposing this time round. Perhaps voters have gone bonkers, but it seems unlikely. At least one hopes so.
  • RogerRoger Posts: 20,062
    Ishmael_Z said:

    The concert has been brilliant. Sent out a message of unity, strength and love. That we won't be divided and we certainly won't go demonising anyone who is different or looking for a scapegoat.

    Are you characterising Muslims as "different"? In what way "different"? Different from you? Different from what they should be? Different from Christians? It's unusual to see the inherent racism of the UK left so explicitly stated (except of course where Jews are involved).
    Silly comment. There comes a point when being a clever arse is inappropriate.
  • MortimerMortimer Posts: 14,158
    Jonathan said:

    Curious thought. If Tories win, all they done is won two extra years. That's it. Barely makes a difference really. Not even half another term.

    It is all about getting Brexit and associated finance bill changes through the commons (and Lords, as its in the manifesto) and syncing the electoral timetable with the Brexit timetable.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 61,253

    Best thing to do:

    (1) Log-on to Facebook at 10.01pm on Thursday.
    (2) Go to 'update your status'
    (3) Write: "Looooooooooooooooooooooollllllll!!!!!!!!!!!!!"

    Hmmm, hubris, Casino. I don't like this overconfidence!
    "Lol" can be an appropriate reaction for a variety of outcomes ;-)

    But, you are right to warn of hubris.
  • ChameleonChameleon Posts: 4,264

    On topic: If indeed it is the case that Theresa May has only a small or even no advantage over Jeremy Corbyn, then it's not Tories who need to be worried, it's the United Kingdom. Never before, in the 50 years or so that I've been following politics, has either main party put forward a more fantastical, incompetent, unprepared, economically illiterate, disunited, and dangerous - not to mention vile - front bench as Labour are proposing this time round. Perhaps voters have gone bonkers, but it seems unlikely. At least one hopes so.

    May's nowhere near squeaky clean either.
  • glwglw Posts: 10,006
    Chris said:

    glw said:

    The concert has been brilliant. Sent out a message of unity, strength and love. That we won't be divided and we certainly won't go demonising anyone who is different or looking for a scapegoat.

    I don't agree with that. If terrorists carry out a Beslan like attack in London or Paris I suspect all the happy-clappy stuff would be straight in the bin.
    It rather depends how many people are too stupid to see that's the whole idea!
    You may not have noticed but over the last few years there has been repeated evidence of large populations acting in what might be described as an emotional rather than intellectual manner, with some fairly dramatic results.
  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 21,768
    RobD said:

    Jonathan said:

    Curious thought. If Tories win, all they done is won two extra years. That's it. Barely makes a difference really. Not even half another term.

    I'm not so sure about that, especially if the majority is larger.
    It's a mathematical fact. She gambled three years to win five.

  • midwintermidwinter Posts: 1,112
    Mortimer said:

    midwinter said:

    Mortimer said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Mortimer said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Mortimer said:

    So, after much tinkering, I've just finalised my model's prediction for the GE:

    CON: 377
    LAB: 198
    SNP: 45
    LD: 6
    Others: 24

    Of the 47 expected Tory gains I'm happy to report, without too much tinkering, that TP's Don Valley is listed.... Good luck Aaron!!

    I don't think that's an unreasonable estimate. Could I ask how your LD seats come out?

    I think they'll get 3/4 in Scotland.
    Plus Ceredgion.

    And then I'd reckon another 2-6 in England. To give me a range of 6 (at the low end), to 11 at the high.
    Course. I have those 6 as:

    Westmorland & Lonsdale
    Dunbartonshire East
    Orkney & Shetland
    Ceredigion
    Leeds North West (MOE only)
    Sheffield Hallam (MOE only)

    BUT:

    Edinburgh West
    Caithness, Sutherland & Easter Ross
    Fife North East

    Are all projected LD second and without MOE....
    Who do you have as closest challengers in Leeds NW and Hallam ?

    How does Twickenham and Kingston also look ?
    (Of course any model will have Richmond Park safely with the Tories)
    Lab in both Leeds and Sheff H.

    Twickenham, Tories by 6%
    Kingston, Tories by 7%

    And yep you're right - even I'm hoping my model is wrong on RP. Currently showing Con by 41%......

    Out of interest what does your model predict for Hove if you don't mind saying. I think Labour should be comfortably odds on here and 11/10 is great value. I'm on at 9/4 and trying to persuade myself not to go in again! After all even the posh boys couldn't hold on in 2015!!!
    Lab 46%, Con 40%....

    But, as ever, DYOR :)
    Nice one. Thanks very much. Hmmm food for thought.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 60,145

    Best thing to do:

    (1) Log-on to Facebook at 10.01pm on Thursday.
    (2) Go to 'update your status'
    (3) Write: "Looooooooooooooooooooooollllllll!!!!!!!!!!!!!"

    Hmmm, hubris, Casino. I don't like this overconfidence!
    "Lol" can be an appropriate reaction for a variety of outcomes ;-)

    But, you are right to warn of hubris.
    The Daily Mail poll may have done wonders for the GOTV operation!
  • RobDRobD Posts: 60,145
    Jonathan said:

    RobD said:

    Jonathan said:

    Curious thought. If Tories win, all they done is won two extra years. That's it. Barely makes a difference really. Not even half another term.

    I'm not so sure about that, especially if the majority is larger.
    It's a mathematical fact. She gambled three years to win five.

    Yeah, but time isn't the only thing.
  • ChrisChris Posts: 11,783
    rcs1000 said:

    glw said:

    Farron's performance against Neil won't have helped. He has had a dreadful campaign.

    He was a poor choice from a very limited pool. Lamb would have been a least a little better.
    A little - but unlikely now to hold his Norfolk seat.

    It is very hard to see who will replace Farron - the pool will be very small.
    Jo Swinson, if she wins East Dunbartonshire (which I think is the least likely of the potential Scottish gains for the LDs).

    Nick Clegg, if he holds Sheffield Hallam (which I suspect he will).
    The last London poll suggested the Lib Dems would hold Carshalton. If so, Tom Brake might be the least worst choice.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,528
    Jonathan said:

    Curious thought. If Tories win, all they done is won two extra years. That's it. Barely makes a difference really. Not even half another term.

    Indeed. I have been telling anyone depressed at the thought of 5 more years!
  • SquareRootSquareRoot Posts: 7,095
    edited June 2017

    On topic: If indeed it is the case that Theresa May has only a small or even no advantage over Jeremy Corbyn, then it's not Tories who need to be worried, it's the United Kingdom. Never before, in the 50 years or so that I've been following politics, has either main party put forward a more fantastical, incompetent, unprepared, economically illiterate, disunited, and dangerous - not to mention vile - front bench as Labour are proposing this time round. Perhaps voters have gone bonkers, but it seems unlikely. At least one hopes so.

    Well said.. If Labour win.. there is no hope for the UK. I will be the one turning out the light as the last person. to leave the Uk. Anyone else who doesn't is a fool... and YES I will leave the UK and I know where I will go to.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,546
    Mail know who one of the terrorist was....

    One of the jihadis who terrorised London with two assailants before being shot dead by police tricked his neighbours into believing he was a nice guy by playing football with their children on the nearby green.

    Secretly, he was harbouring a destructive hatred and frequently changing his appearance in preparation of unleashing a deadly attack on the capital city during which seven people died and up to 50 were injured last night.

    The killer, who MailOnline is not naming because of operational reasons on the request of the police, lived in a block of flats in Barking and also played table tennis with youngsters.

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4570950/Footage-shows-London-Bridge-terrorists-Borough-Market.html
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 64,107
    Telegraph from page is very interesting story about you tube and a Barking plot re van and knife attack

    Also enough is enough seems to be the front pages byword
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,635
    It won't be this time. But I can feel the McIRA win coming on in 2022 quite honestly.
  • MortimerMortimer Posts: 14,158
    Jonathan said:

    RobD said:

    Jonathan said:

    Curious thought. If Tories win, all they done is won two extra years. That's it. Barely makes a difference really. Not even half another term.

    I'm not so sure about that, especially if the majority is larger.
    It's a mathematical fact. She gambled three years to win five.

    Posts like that are why I'm convinced the oft stated 'we need more scientists/engineers in politics' isn't the case...
  • foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548
    glw said:

    The concert has been brilliant. Sent out a message of unity, strength and love. That we won't be divided and we certainly won't go demonising anyone who is different or looking for a scapegoat.

    I don't agree with that. If terrorists carry out a Beslan like attack in London or Paris I suspect all the happy-clappy stuff would be straight in the bin.
    Why?

    The French did not go all fascist, why would we if the same happened?

    The concert was not my cup of tea for a variety of reasons, but clearly a healing moment for many in Manchester

This discussion has been closed.