New Zealand, Latin America and Spain safest on that list ( though of course Spain had 2004 Madrid bombings)
Morocco was suggested to me as a good destination, that looks like a good call if that map is accurate.
There are fairly regular reports of security services breaking up terrorist cells in Spain one of the big difference out here is the high level of police road side checks on motorists rarely does a day go by without passing one. The prime objective is not terrorist related but it's noticeable that the majority pulled over are Moroccan.
For starters shut down mosques that allow hate speech
Come down hard on hate preachers and shut down schools who spout islamist shit.
lengthy prison terms for those who spread hate
Stop kowtowing to islamists - we self censor right now - fuck em
Stop trying to shut down debate on the darker side of Islamic beliefs.
Exclude people from this country if they went abroad to fight jihad or have preached hate.
Cut down muslim immigration.
The issue with that is the basic principle that people can't be left stateless. If Syria won't give them citizenship (and why should they) we can't remove it.
But I'd be fine to lock them up. There must be a law against fighting in a foreign war (or we can introduce one)
So what if they are stateless? There are many stateless people.
Locking them up only gives them an opportunity to create more Jihadis in prison.
In times of trouble and danger, people will tend to hang onto nurse for fear of something worse. Security is paramount. Britain is reaping the reward of allowing the immigration of so many people with alien values, and tragically now sees the River Thames foaming with much blood. May's victory on 8/6 is now nailed on, and all the opinion polls published yesterday before 10 pm support this premise. The only question is the size of the Tory majority.
This is now the third attack this year. People are rightly questioning May's ability to deal with terrorism. Not only in general terms, cutting spending in policing and other vital services, but also the specific point that instead of focusing on Brexit and on national security, she chose to call an unnecessary election - a major distraction.
What's more, May is as responsible for "allowing the immigration of so many people with alien values" as anyone else. She's a hypocrite - she talks a lot about reducing immigration because it impresses Mail readers that it sounds like she's doing something, but then never actually does it. It gets worse: she has powers to stop potential terrorists from being here but doesn't use them.
She's hopeless and it's shocking that people like you think she should be rewarded for failure.
This. The first job of the government is to keep us safe. That means strengthening the police and security services and armed forces, not cutting them.
Who cut police number so that the police warned her this would happen? Theresa May. Who cut Border Force numbers so that we can't properly screen people coming in (creating the newsworthy side effect of queues at Heathrow)? Theresa May. Whose government slashed the armed forces and had to look to doing deals with the French to protect us as "we can't afford" Frigates? Theresa May.
I get very angry when people tell me Jeremy Corbyn is a threat to national security. Who's the bloody government responsible for the current state of our police and armed services?
I'm not sure more police would have stopped 3 nutters driving a van at innocent people. They killed them all within 8 minutes - mightily impressive.
What is worrying is the belief that Corbyn and Abbott would be better.
The number who think they would be better, at anything, might not be great. But millions think they would be no worse.
That clip of the police federation meet in where the officer berated Theresa May for police cuts and told her 2 years ago that a Manchester attack would happen as she'd destroyed the police's ability to do the job properly went massive on social media a few weeks back. It's still valid now and I expect another airing.
Because aside from all the guff about who said what we have practicalities. The Tories have slashed community police normal police armed police. And have budgeted more slashing going forward. Where I live we have had bursts of ASB problems and the lack of police has been identified and recognised by both residents and the police as the problem.
So with respect to questions about what Corbyn said, expect harder questions about what May has done. Judge us on our record as she keeps saying. A police force cut. Armed forces cut. A lack of resources and equipment and ships and planes. And you say Corbyn is the threat to security?
You have a point about police budgets but it's primarily the intelligence services who deal with terrorism threats. I don't think Corbyn is credible on security because he has over his whole career never shown any support for those fighting terrorists - quite the opposite in fact - and has consistently voted against all counter-terrorism measures.
Condolences to the families and friends of those killed. It is such a beautiful morning here and to think that there were people out enjoying themselves last night who will not see the sun today is so sad.
Unfortunately, Western leaders (presumably for reasons trip to the Middle East.
Trump actually made a speech saying Islamic leaders had to root out 'extreme, radical Islam' on his tour of the Middle East, you never heard that from Obama
Extreme radical Islam has its roots in Islam. That is the problem. When terrorists behead they are doing what Mohammed did back in the 7th century to his enemies. So how realistic is it to expect those who claim that his is the example to be followed to say that some of what he did should not be followed?
Trump was right to say what he did. But I have yet to see any very convincing explanation of how Islam puts an effective firewall between itself and the extremists from any Islamic leader. The only ones I have seen are from people like Maajid Nawaz and Ayan Hirsi Ali, who are then threatened for their pains.
In the Middle Ages the likes of Saladin were tough and ruthless warriors but they were no ISIS and had a civilised side
This is now the third attack this year. People are rightly questioning May's ability to deal with terrorism. Not only in general terms, cutting spending in policing and other vital services, but also the specific point that instead of focusing on Brexit and on national security, she chose to call an unnecessary election - a major distraction.
What's more, May is as responsible for "allowing the immigration of so many people with alien values" as anyone else. She's a hypocrite - she talks a lot about reducing immigration because it impresses Mail readers that it sounds like she's doing something, but then never actually does it. It gets worse: she has powers to stop potential terrorists from being here but doesn't use them.
She's hopeless and it's shocking that people like you think she should be rewarded for failure.
This. The first job of the government is to keep us safe. That means strengthening the police and security services and armed forces, not cutting them.
Who cut police number so that the police warned her this would happen? Theresa May. Who cut Border Force numbers so that we can't properly screen people coming in (creating the newsworthy side effect of queues at Heathrow)? Theresa May. Whose government slashed the armed forces and had to look to doing deals with the French to protect us as "we can't afford" Frigates? Theresa May.
I get very angry when people tell me Jeremy Corbyn is a threat to national security. Who's the bloody government responsible for the current state of our police and armed services?
They haven't cut security forces funding and what on earth would the armed forces have done in central London on a saturday night?!
Cut community police. Cut armed police. Cut the security services. Cut the Border Force. Cut the army, navy and air force. Tories know the cost to everything and the value of nothing.
I can brook criticism of policing cuts, but the security forces have had their funding increased and what the fuck has armed forces cuts got to do with it? Which army regiment would have been tasked with stopping mainland terrorism if not for the cuts?
On a different subject, for anyone vaguely interested in the possibility of an Ind win in East Devon. Tory candidate Hugo Swire has declined to appear at the hustings - organising his own apparently. Not sure that is entirely wise.
YouGov suggest it's possible, Claire Wright did get 24% last time but speaking to someone down there, Wright's apparently got little name recognition in the Sidmouth end of the constituency, will do very well in Ottery St Mary where she's the local county councillor and okayish in Exmouth. Swire is getting credit for "saving" Sidmouth Hospital after a CCG decision to close beds there was reversed in late March (Seaton Hospital will lose beds instead but Neil Parish has a 20k majority in Tiverton & Honiton so will be okay). I can see Wright getting 30-35% but Swire will get very close to 50% so no upset.
That clip of the police federation meet in where the officer berated Theresa May for police cuts and told her 2 years ago that a Manchester attack would happen as she'd destroyed the police's ability to do the job properly went massive on social media a few weeks back. It's still valid now and I expect another airing.
Because aside from all the guff about who said what we have practicalities. The Tories have slashed community police normal police armed police. And have budgeted more slashing going forward. Where I live we have had bursts of ASB problems and the lack of police has been identified and recognised by both residents and the police as the problem.
So with respect to questions about what Corbyn said, expect harder questions about what May has done. Judge us on our record as she keeps saying. A police force cut. Armed forces cut. A lack of resources and equipment and ships and planes. And you say Corbyn is the threat to security?
Under Jeremy Corbyn, we'd have nuclear submarines without missiles and armed police who aren't allowed to shoot. What good is that?
Your leader has seldom found an enemy of the British state he doesn't want to appease or speak for.
And the Conservatives have axed 25,000 soldiers and 20,000 coppers.
You haven't addressed my point at all. How many police or soldiers you have is irrelevant if you're not prepared to use them.
And you can't use them if they are not there in the first place because the Conservatives have been throwing P45s around like confetti.
Except of course that Labour left us a mammoth budget and you've not proposes any alternative cuts that's you would do instead. Unless you want to act as grown ups and face budgetary reality then bemoaning cuts is meaningless.
I hope not. Any security issue stuff is done, any attempt to talk about it from candidates will backfire, so the last date should be all about economics and leadership. Both sides would welcome that, one because they've d a great campaign, thecother because they think the fundamentals are still in their favour. .
In times of trouble and danger, people will tend to hang onto nurse for fear of something worse. Security is paramount. Britain is reaping the reward of allowing the immigration of so many people with alien values, and tragically now sees the River Thames foaming with much blood. May's victory on 8/6 is now nailed on, and all the opinion polls published yesterday before 10 pm support this premise. The only question is the size of the Tory majority.
This is now the third attack this year. People are rightly questioning May's ability to deal with terrorism. Not only in general terms, cutting spending in policing and other vital services, but also the specific point that instead of focusing on Brexit and on national security, she chose to call an unnecessary election - a major distraction.
What's more, May is as responsible for "allowing the immigration of so many people with alien values" as anyone else. She's a hypocrite - she talks a lot about reducing immigration because it impresses Mail readers that it sounds like she's doing something, but then never actually does it. It gets worse: she has powers to stop potential terrorists from being here but doesn't use them.
She's hopeless and it's shocking that people like you think she should be rewarded for failure.
She has said she will end free movement and get immigration under 100 000 in contrast to Corbyn's largely pacifist open border policy but yes we need to ban travel to Libya and Syria as Trump has done and tag suspected extremists
That long-standing commitment to getting immigration under control...how's that been working out then?
Judge me on my record, I think she said.
While in the EU we could do nothing about free movement or indeed Merkel's open door policy from Syria, now we are leaving the single market we can
The Home Office (prop T May) failed to cut non-EU immigration, so that was another pledge broken. Perhaps it will be different next time -- though the IFS analysis of the Conservative manifesto pointed out this could devastate the economy.
Impressed that police had all 3 attackers shot dead within 8 minutes of attack starting, as is being reported. I wonder how quickly an armed response could happen outside cental London.
Correct to see a de facto death penalty for terrorists.
I regret it. The first priority of the police is to keep us safe, so I support them doing that. But I would have liked these people to be confronte ad with what they did in a trial and a lifetime in prison, instead of taking the easy way out of martyrdom.
So lab no lower than 34 on any of the polls yesterday. This surge truly is real.
Given the Tories are no lower than 40% and as high as 47% and they got 37% last time you could equally say the Tory surge relative to 2015 is real too
Yes, but that doesn't surprise me like the labour surge. Or concern me as much (even though them winning by a huge amount I don't think is good for good governance).
In a FPTP-created two party system such as the one in England and most of Wales, many - if not most - votes are negative. Millions of people will not be voting for Corbyn and his likely to the next.
I think if the Tories win this time they will probably still win in 2022 given Corbyn will do well enough to secure his leadership
Corbyn will not lead Labour into the next election. He will be into his 70s and too old. Whoever does - even if from the far left - will not have his baggage. If Labour under Corbyn can hit the mid-30s, Labour under someone else can go higher; especially when May fails to deliver the stronger, fairer, more prosperous UK she has promised. One thing this election has done is revive the Labour party. It didn't seem possible a month ago, but May and Corbyn between them have achieved it (with a little extra help from the nice but dim Tim Farron).
No Corbyn probably will leas Labour into the next general election election now, one thing this election has ensured is that even if May gets a majority over 50 it will not be the bearer 150 majority Labour
Nope - he'll stand down before the next GE. But let's say you're right and he doesn't, the attacks on his past will not work again. They are a card that has been played. His baggage will be factored in next time. When May fails to deliver the stronger, fairer and more prosperous UK she has promised, videos of Corbyn with IRA leaders are not going to save her.
Nope, he won't he will get another renewed mandate from members and probably stay the full 5 years. If Corbyn loses this time it will be in part because of his terrorist linked background and his weakness on national security and that will be exactly the same next time. Plus next time we will have ended free movement and started to regain control of our borders which is at the heart of tge vote for May this time and even if the economy slows down voters are not going to pick a socialist to revive it, see 1992
I am campaigning in Ilford from 10 30 or is only the national campaign suspended for a day not locally as far as I am aware
The Tories have already suspended; the other parties are meeting now. I haven't heard anything about local campaigning but would be surprised if continuing today was sensible.
In times of trouble and danger, people will tend to hang onto nurse for fear of something worse. Security is paramount. Britain is reaping the reward of allowing the immigration of so many people with alien values, and tragically now sees the River Thames foaming with much blood. May's victory on 8/6 is now nailed on, and all the opinion polls published yesterday before 10 pm support this premise. The only question is the size of the Tory majority.
This is now the third attack this year. People are rightly questioning May's ability to deal with terrorism. Not only in general terms, cutting spending in policing and other vital services, but also the specific point that instead of focusing on Brexit and on national security, she chose to call an unnecessary election - a major distraction.
What's more, May is as responsible for "allowing the immigration of so many people with alien values" as anyone else. She's a hypocrite - she talks a lot about reducing immigration because it impresses Mail readers that it sounds like she's doing something, but then never actually does it. It gets worse: she has powers to stop potential terrorists from being here but doesn't use them.
She's hopeless and it's shocking that people like you think she should be rewarded for failure.
She has said she will end free movement and get immigration under 100 000 in contrast to Corbyn's largely pacifist open border policy but yes we need to ban travel to Libya and Syria as Trump has done and tag suspected extremists
That long-standing commitment to getting immigration under control...how's that been working out then?
Judge me on my record, I think she said.
While in the EU we could do nothing about free movement or indeed Merkel's open door policy from Syria, now we are leaving the single market we can
The Home Office (prop T May) failed to cut non-EU immigration, so that was another pledge broken. Perhaps it will be different next time -- though the IFS analysis of the Conservative manifesto pointed out this could devastate the economy.
Controlled immigration will not 'devastate' the economy if based on the skills we actually need, a continued open borders policy May however 'devastate' our national security
Condolences to the families and friends of those killed. It is such a beautiful morning here and to think that there were people out enjoying themselves last night who will not see the sun today is so sad.
My son was out last night and he texted me to let me know he was safe, in case I was watching the news. Life these days.....
Of course campaigning should continue. We should not let these scumbags derail our democracy.
But a big thank you is due to the police, intelligence and emergency services.
Unfortunately, Western leaders (presumably for reasons of realpolitic) show no hesitation in appeasing countries whose religious leaders promote alien values that lead to these atrocities - look at the countries that Trump visited on his recent trip to the Middle East.
Agreed. I loathe the way governments, both Labour and Tory, kow tow to vile Middle eastern regimes. We should sup with Saudi Arabia and Iran and Pakistan and Qatar with a very long spoon indeed, if we have to sup with them at all. We certainly shouldn't be allowing them to fund mosques, madrassas, schools, university chairs in this country and we should question those politicians who appear on their propaganda channels.
But if we don't want those alien values then it rather begs an obvious question, one which those who criticise the regimes are prone to shying away from.
Would you also apply this to other Middle Eastern regimes, in particular Israel, which Trump visited as well on his recent visit to the region, and Turkey - a member of NATO? They both espouse values alien to the West.
I do not agree that Israel espouses values alien to the West. Quite the contrary. Jewish values are the foundation stone of Christianity and much of Western thought. Western civilisation is largely built on Judaeo-Christian-Ancient Greek values. I'm not sure what to think about Turkey, to be honest. It seems to be heading in a very authoritarian direction under Erdogan. Worrying.
Agree with other posters that May is a bit hopeless but Corbyn / McDonnell / Abbott are far far worse.
Looking ahead, whoever wins the GE has to find a new policy to pre-empt and mitigate this threat. Not easy.
My hunch is that we will see calls for ID cards and 72hrs detention coming back at some point.
Probably. Whether they could in any way help with this situation, they are measures that are known, simple and understandable, so easy to implement, so likely to be proposed.
So lab no lower than 34 on any of the polls yesterday. This surge truly is real.
Given the Tories are no lower than 40% and as high as 47% and they got 37% last time you could equally say the Tory surge relative to 2015 is real too
Yes, but that doesn't surprise me like the labour surge. Or concern me as much (even though them winning by a huge amount I don't think is good for good governance).
In a FPTP-created two party system such as the one in England and most of Wales, many - if not most - votes are negative. Millions of people will not be voting for Corbyn and his policies, but against May and hers; and vice versa. We will all pretend that whoever wins received a positive mandate; and we'll then vote them out at the next election. For one thing seems pretty clear: whoever does prevail this time is very unlikely to the next.
I think if the Tories win this time they will probably still win in 2022 given Corbyn will do well enough to secure his leadership
Corbyn will not lead Labour into the next election. He will be into his 70s and too old. Whoever does - even if from the far left - will not have his baggage.
Corbyn's preferred successor is Macdonnell.
He carries more baggage than a Ryanair overhead rack.
McDonnell will not succeed Corbyn.
Who will? Corbyn seems about to do very well in vote share and possibly even ok in seats, if the hung parliament projections are right - and even if not he will be dozens of seats better off than some first predicted it seems - so his successor will be of similar thinking, from his coterie.
There is no doubt that Labour will now feel freer to pitch from the left and will be much less inclined to second guess and kow-tow to the right wing press. These are clear Corbyn achievements. I suspect that the next leader will be a unity candidate, much younger, probably female, and without Corbyn's baggage around security, defence and foreign affairs. Labour will enter the next Parliament relatively reinvigorated and with its survival no longer in doubt; and with time to do some thinking. Unless the polls prove to be horribly wrong (quite possible in my opinion). In which case, Corbyn will go pretty quickly.
8 minutes is seriously impressive. The level of threat may have been taken down to severe but we are geared up like never before. And quite right too. Intelligence is key to our security but stopping this kind of low tech attack is so much more difficult and we have to accept some will get through.
What's the situation in Scotland re armed police, if I may ask? I seem to recall a bit hullabaloo about it not that long ago.
Too many routinely armed cops on the streets, as permitted & encouraged by their ghastly SNP overlords. Doubt we'll see that meme revived for a while.
Anecdotally, a friend was recently appointed to chair a committee at a reasonably well known public institution close to a busy meeting/choke point (don't want to be too specific), and he was surprised to learn that at particularly busy times there's frequently an armed observation unit placed on its roof.
I am campaigning in Ilford from 10 30 or is only the national campaign suspended for a day not locally as far as I am aware
The Tories have already suspended; the other parties are meeting now. I haven't heard anything about local campaigning but would be surprised if continuing today was sensible.
If anything it is even more important, terrorists must not stop democracy
8 minutes is seriously impressive. The level of threat may have been taken down to severe but we are geared up like never before. And quite right too. Intelligence is key to our security but stopping this kind of low tech attack is so much more difficult and we have to accept some will get through.
What's the situation in Scotland re armed police, if I may ask? I seem to recall a bit hullabaloo about it not that long ago.
Honestly don't know. When we were at critical we suddenly had a cop with a machine gun at Dundee railway station. He looked pretty self conscious. There is a music festival, the Westfest, in Dundee today. I suspect there will be armed police there now.
I am campaigning in Ilford from 10 30 or is only the national campaign suspended for a day not locally as far as I am aware
The Tories have already suspended; the other parties are meeting now. I haven't heard anything about local campaigning but would be surprised if continuing today was sensible.
If anything it is even more important, terrorists must not stop democracy
It's about respect for the dead and injured - just as it was last time.
I doubt there will be a public suspension of local campaigning, because they know it's not entirely under their control. But I would expect the parties to send out advisory emails to their local campaigners and IMO it would be foolish to continue with it today. Let's hope we can resume tomorrow.
I am campaigning in Ilford from 10 30 or is only the national campaign suspended for a day not locally as far as I am aware
The Tories have already suspended; the other parties are meeting now. I haven't heard anything about local campaigning but would be surprised if continuing today was sensible.
If anything it is even more important, terrorists must not stop democracy
It's about respect for the dead and injured - just as it was last time.
I doubt there will be a public suspension of local campaigning, because they know it's not entirely under their control. But I would expect the parties to send out advisory emails to their local campaigners and IMO it would be foolish to continue with it today. Let's hope we can resume tomorrow.
You respect the dead by standing up for civilised values one of which is the democratic process, maybe have a silence at 11am otherwise carry on is my view
So lab no lower than 34 on any of the polls yesterday. This surge truly is real.
Given the Tories are no lower than 40% and as high as 47% and they got 37% last time you could equally say the Tory surge relative to 2015 is real too
Yes, but that doesn't surprise me like the labour surge. Or concern me as much (even though them winning by a huge amount I don't think is good for good governance).
In a FPTP-created two party system such as the one in England and most of Wales, many - if not most - votes are negative. Millions of people will not be voting for Corbyn and his likely to the next.
I think if the Tories win this time they will probably still win in 2022 given Corbyn will do well enough to secure his leadership
Corbyn will not lead Labour One thing this election has done is revive the Labour party. It didn't seem possible a month ago, but May and Corbyn between them have achieved it (with a little extra help from the nice but dim Tim Farron).
No Corbyn probably will leas Labour into the next general election election now, one thing this election has ensured is that even if May gets a majority over 50 it will not be the bearer 150 majority Labour
Nope - he'll stand down before the next GE. But let's say you're right and he doesn't, the attacks on his past will not work again. They are a card that has been played. His baggage will be factored in next time. When May fails to deliver the stronger, fairer and more prosperous UK she has promised, videos of Corbyn with IRA leaders are not going to save her.
Nope, he won't he will get another renewed mandate from members and probably stay the full 5 years. If Corbyn loses this time it will be in part because of his terrorist linked background and his weakness on national security and that will be exactly the same next time. Plus next time we will have ended free movement and started to regain control of our borders which is at the heart of tge vote for May this time and even if the economy slows down voters are not going to pick a socialist to revive it, see 1992
May has promised a stronger, fairer, more prosperous Britain. If she does not deliver it, she will lose in 21/22, whoever leads Labour.
What are the chances of another outrage or attempted outrage on Thursday? Horribly high I fear. We do need to accept that this is an ongoing situation and refuse to let it stop us from getting on with our business.
Without going all SeanT it is getting increasingly hard to see any kind of laissez faire attitude to Islam surviving this in the medium term. We have allowed a different society to flourish in our midst under the labels of freedom of religion and multiculturalism. It has not gone well.
So lab no lower than 34 on any of the polls yesterday. This surge truly is real.
Given the Tories are no lower than 40% and as high as 47% and they got 37% last time you could equally say the Tory surge relative to 2015 is real too
Yes, but that doesn't surprise me like the labour surge. Or concern me as much (even though them winning by a huge amount I don't think is good for good governance).
In a FPTP-created two party system such as the one in England and most of Wales, many - if not most - votes are negative. Millions of people will not be voting for Corbyn and his likely to the next.
I think if the Tories win this time they will probably still win in 2022 given Corbyn will do well enough to secure his leadership
Corbyn will not lead Labour One thing this election has done is revive the Labour party. It didn't seem possible a month ago, but May and Corbyn between them have achieved it (with a little extra help from the nice but dim Tim Farron).
No Corbyn probably will leas Labour into the next general election election now, one thing this election has ensured is that even if May gets a majority over 50 it will not be the bearer 150 majority Labour
Nope - he'll stand down before the next GE. But let's say you're right and he doesn't, the attacks on his past will not work again. They are a card that has been played. His baggage will be factored in next time. When May fails to deliver the stronger, fairer and more prosperous UK she has promised, videos of Corbyn with IRA leaders are not going to save her.
Nope, he won't he will get another renewed mandate from members and probably stay the full 5 years. If Corbyn loses this time it will be in part because of his terrorist linked background and his weakness on national security and that will be exactly the same next time. Plus next time we will have ended free movement and started to regain control of our borders which is at the heart of tge vote for May this time and even if the economy slows down voters are not going to pick a socialist to revive it, see 1992
May has promised a stronger, fairer, more prosperous Britain. If she does not deliver it, she will lose in 21/22, whoever leads Labour.
She will almost certainly not be the leader in 2022. Her age , the pressures of Brexit and her complete incompetence at campaigning all point strongly against it.
So lab no lower than 34 on any of the polls yesterday. This surge truly is real.
Given the Tories are no lower than 40% and as high as 47% and they got 37% last time you could equally say the Tory surge relative to 2015 is real too
Yes, but that do.
In a FPTP-created two party system such as the one in England and most of Wales, many - if not most - votes are negative. Millions of people will not be voting for Corbyn and his likely to the next.
I think if the Tories win this time they will probably still win in 2022 given Corbyn will do well enough to secure his leadership
Corbyn will not lead Labour One thing this election has done is revive the Labour party. It didn't seem possible a month ago, but May and Corbyn between them have achieved it (with a little extra help from the nice but dim Tim Farron).
No Corbyn probably will leas Labour into the next general election election now, one thing this election has ensured is that even if May gets a majority over 50 it will not be the bearer 150 majority Labour
Nope - he'll stand down before the next GE. But let's say you're right and he doesn't, the attacks on his past will not work again. They are a card that has been played. His baggage will be factored in next time. When May fails to deliver the stronger, fairer and more prosperous UK she has promised, videos of Corbyn with IRA leaders are not going to save her.
Nope, he won't he will get another renewed mandate from members and probably stay the full 5 years. If Corbyn loses this time it will be in part because of his terrorist linked background and his weakness on national security and that will be exactly the same next time. Plus next time we
May has promised a stronger, fairer, more prosperous Britain. If she does not deliver it, she will lose in 21/22, whoever leads Labour.
She will almost certainly not be the leader in 2022. Her age , the pressures of Brexit and her complete incompetence at campaigning all point strongly against it.
If she wins a majority over 50 she will be in the strongest position of any Tory leader since Thatcher
I am campaigning in Ilford from 10 30 or is only the national campaign suspended for a day not locally as far as I am aware
The Tories have already suspended; the other parties are meeting now. I haven't heard anything about local campaigning but would be surprised if continuing today was sensible.
If anything it is even more important, terrorists must not stop democracy
It's about respect for the dead and injured - just as it was last time.
I doubt there will be a public suspension of local campaigning, because they know it's not entirely under their control. But I would expect the parties to send out advisory emails to their local campaigners and IMO it would be foolish to continue with it today. Let's hope we can resume tomorrow.
You respect the dead by standing up for civilised values one of which is the democratic process, maybe have a silence at 11am otherwise carry on is my view
Same here. I will carry on leafletting today unless told not to.
These bastards don't deserve to win even the smallest of concessions, the most meagre of victories. Care for the injured, respect the dead. And give two-fingered salute to those who want to change us by force.
So lab no lower than 34 on any of the polls yesterday. This surge truly is real.
Given the Tories are no lower than 40% and as high as 47% and they got 37% last time you could equally say the Tory surge relative to 2015 is real too
Yes, but that doesn't surprise me like the labour surge. Or concern me as much (even though them winning by a huge amount I don't think is good for good governance).
In a FPTP-created two party system such as the one in England and most of Wales, many - if not most - votes are negative. Millions of people will not be voting for Corbyn and his likely to the next.
I think if the Tories win this time they will probably still win in 2022 given Corbyn will do well enough to secure his leadership
Corbyn will not lead Labour One thing this election has done is revive the Labour party. It didn't seem possible a month ago, but May and Corbyn between them have achieved it (with a little extra help from the nice but dim Tim Farron).
No Corbyn probably will leas Labour into the next general election election now, one thing this election has ensured is that even if May gets a majority over 50 it will not be the bearer 150 majority Labour
Nope - he'll stand down before the next GE. But let's say you're right and he doesn't, the attacks on his
Nope, he won't he will get another renewed mandate from members and probably stay the full 5 years. If Corbyn loses this time it will be in part because of his terrorist linked background and his weakness on national security and that will be exactly the same next time. Plus next time we will have ended free movement and started to regain control of our borders which is at the heart of tge vote for May this time and even if the economy slows down voters are not going to pick a socialist to revive it, see 1992
May has promised a stronger, fairer, more prosperous Britain. If she does not deliver it, she will lose in 21/22, whoever leads Labour.
May has promised an end to free movement and reclaimed sovereignty and continued tough decisions on the public finances to balance the books and reform public services. She will win in 2021/22 against Corbyn whatever happens and if Corbyn survives this election he will lead Labour in 2021 and 22
Yes Corbyn is a weasel-worded apologist for terrorism, but can anyone recall a certain by-election stunt in 2008 that was called apparently as a result of the 'unfair' extended detention of terror suspects (although it wasn't quite couched in those terms, although not far from it!).
I am campaigning in Ilford from 10 30 or is only the national campaign suspended for a day not locally as far as I am aware
The Tories have already suspended; the other parties are meeting now. I haven't heard anything about local campaigning but would be surprised if continuing today was sensible.
If anything it is even more important, terrorists must not stop democracy
It's about respect for the dead and injured - just as it was last time.
I doubt there will be a public suspension of local campaigning, because they know it's not entirely under their control. But I would expect the parties to send out advisory emails to their local campaigners and IMO it would be foolish to continue with it today. Let's hope we can resume tomorrow.
You respect the dead by standing up for civilised values one of which is the democratic process, maybe have a silence at 11am otherwise carry on is my view
Same here. I will carry on leafletting today unless told not to.
These bastards don't deserve to win even the smallest of concessions, the most meagre of victories. Care for the injured, respect the dead. And give two-fingered salute to those who want to change us by force.
So lab no lower than 34 on any of the polls yesterday. This surge truly is real.
Given the Tories are no lower than 40% and as high as 47% and they got 37% last time you could equally say the Tory surge relative to 2015 is real too
Yes, but that do.
In a FPTP-created two party system such as the one in England and most of Wales, many - if not most - votes are negative. Millions of people will not be voting for Corbyn and his likely to the next.
I think if the Tories win this time they will probably still win in 2022 given Corbyn will do well enough to secure his leadership
Corbyn will not lead Labour One thing this election has done is revive the Labour party. It didn't seem possible a month ago, but May and Corbyn between them have achieved it (with a little extra help from the nice but dim Tim Farron).
No Corbyn probably will leas Labour into the next general election election now, one thing this election has ensured is that even if May gets a majority over 50 it will not be the bearer 150 majority Labour
Nope - he'll stand down before the next GE. But let's say you're right and he doesn't, the attacks on his past will not work again. They are a card that has been played. His baggage will be factored in next time. When May fails to deliver the stronger, fairer and more prosperous UK she has promised, videos of Corbyn with IRA leaders are not going to save her.
Nope, he won't he will get another renewed mandate from members and probably stay the full 5 years. If Corbyn loses this time it will be in part because of his terrorist linked background and his weakness on national security and that will be exactly the same next time. Plus next time we
May has promised a stronger, fairer, more prosperous Britain. If she does not deliver it, she will lose in 21/22, whoever leads Labour.
She will almost certainly not be the leader in 2022. Her age , the pressures of Brexit and her complete incompetence at campaigning all point strongly against it.
If she wins a majority over 50 she will be in the strongest position of any Tory leader since Thatcher
In the short term yes. But she has been terrible these last 4 weeks. She has no natural ability for this at all. Doesn't make her a bad PM of course. I just can't see her doing this again.
Impressed that police had all 3 attackers shot dead within 8 minutes of attack starting, as is being reported. I wonder how quickly an armed response could happen outside cental London.
Correct to see a de facto death penalty for terrorists.
I regret it. The first priority of the police is to keep us safe, so I support them doing that. But I would have liked these people to be confronte ad with what they did in a trial and a lifetime in prison, instead of taking the easy way out of martyrdom.
Has Jeremy opined yet? Were their deaths "yet another tragedy, upon a tragedy, upon a tragedy"?
Impressed that police had all 3 attackers shot dead within 8 minutes of attack starting, as is being reported. I wonder how quickly an armed response could happen outside cental London.
Correct to see a de facto death penalty for terrorists.
I regret it. The first priority of the police is to keep us safe, so I support them doing that. But I would have liked these people to be confronte ad with what they did in a trial and a lifetime in prison, instead of taking the easy way out of martyrdom.
Has Jeremy opined yet? Were their deaths "yet another tragedy, upon a tragedy, upon a tragedy"?
Absolutely. Has he been asked this opinion on the terrorists been shot dead to protect the public yet? To think he could be PM next week..
In the short term yes. But she has been terrible these last 4 weeks. She has no natural ability for this at all. Doesn't make her a bad PM of course. I just can't see her doing this again.
And to be fair, many years as an MP, 6 years as Home Secretary and 4 or 5 as PM will be more than enough public service to warrant the gratitude of the nation, especially as she stood up to deliver Brexit against the direst warnings from her colleagues during the referendum campaign as to what Brexit would mean for Britain.
The only storm cloud on the horizon will be if the Brexit negotiations are perceived to be going badly. At that point,, there might be murmurings that "she was poor in the election campaign...time to move on...fresh team to deal with Brussels..."
*All the above predicated of course on her winning a useable majority on Thursday.
So lab no lower than 34 on any of the polls yesterday. This surge truly is real.
Given the Tories are no lower than 40% and as high as 47% and they got 37% last time you could equally say the Tory surge relative to 2015 is real too
Yes, but that doesn't surprise me like the labour surge. Or concern me as much (even though them winning by a huge amount I don't think is good for good governance).
In a FPTP-created two party system such as the one in England and most of Wales, many - if not most - votes are negative. Millions of people will not be voting for Corbyn and his likely to the next.
I think if the Tories win this time they will probably still win in 2022 given Corbyn will do well enough to secure his leadership
Corbyn will not lead Labour One thing this election has done is revive the Labour party. It didn't seem possible a month ago, but May and Corbyn between them have achieved it (with a little extra help from the nice but dim Tim Farron).
No Corbyn probably will leas Labour into the next general election election now, one thing this election has ensured is that even if May gets a majority over 50 it will not be the bearer 150 majority Labour
Nope - he'll stand down before the next GE. But let's say you're right and he doesn't, the attacks on his
Nope, he won't he will get another renewed mandate from members and probably stay the full 5 years. If Corbyn loses this timeo regain control of our borders which is at the heart of tge vote for May this time and even if the economy slows down voters are not going to pick a socialist to revive it, see 1992
May has promised a stronger, fairer, more prosperous Britain. If she does not deliver it, she will lose in 21/22, whoever leads Labour.
May has promised an end to free movement and reclaimed sovereignty and continued tough decisions on the public finances to balance the books and reform public services. She will win in 2021/22 against Corbyn whatever happens and if Corbyn survives this election he will lead Labour in 2021 and 22
She has promised a more prosperous Britain. It's there in black and white at the front of the Tory manifesto. There really is no getting round that, I'm afraid.
In the short term yes. But she has been terrible these last 4 weeks. She has no natural ability for this at all. Doesn't make her a bad PM of course. I just can't see her doing this again.
And to be fair, many years as an MP, 6 years as Home Secretary and 4 or 5 as PM will be more than enough public service to warrant the gratitude of the nation, especially as she stood up to deliver Brexit against the direst warnings from her colleagues during the referendum campaign as to what Brexit would mean for Britain.
The only storm cloud on the horizon will be if the Brexit negotiations are perceived to be going badly. At that point,, there might be murmurings that "she was poor in the election campaign...time to move on...fresh team to deal with Brussels..."
*All the above predicated of course on her winning a useable majority on Thursday.
You must be absolutely delighted that because Theresa may cut police numbers and cut resources as home services restart to fund tax cuts for the rich that because of this terrorist attack the Tory majority will be 150.
Tax cuts for the rich again.
Cut police budgets = more terrorism = more Tory MPs in parliament.
This could be the way the Tories get a 250 seat majority. May should announce some real hard arsed measures within the Muslim population of the UK. Real pressure on these" lovely peaceful people" the left tell us about, who don't seem to do much to stop the murders.
What are the chances of another outrage or attempted outrage on Thursday? Horribly high I fear. We do need to accept that this is an ongoing situation and refuse to let it stop us from getting on with our business.
Without going all SeanT it is getting increasingly hard to see any kind of laissez faire attitude to Islam surviving this in the medium term. We have allowed a different society to flourish in our midst under the labels of freedom of religion and multiculturalism. It has not gone well.
What are the chances of another outrage or attempted outrage on Thursday? Horribly high I fear. We do need to accept that this is an ongoing situation and refuse to let it stop us from getting on with our business.
Without going all SeanT it is getting increasingly hard to see any kind of laissez faire attitude to Islam surviving this in the medium term. We have allowed a different society to flourish in our midst under the labels of freedom of religion and multiculturalism. It has not gone well.
I was thinking about the exit polls, and the show-count they run at Sunderland. I'm not sure if I could be comfortable presenting those kind of unnecessary targets to the fanatics.
In your previous thread you asked some questions. The answer to some of them I will have to write up into an article. But one of them I will answer now.
Q: "Do pollsters suffer from bad results" A: "Yes, but not in the way you think"
From memory, there have been cases where pollsters have stopped polling due to bad results. Angus Reid, a Canadian company, tried to poll 2010 UKGE, did not do well, and have not polled since. RedC? in Ireland got Lisbon I wrong and did not poll Lisbon II, (tho they did poll in later years). Populus famously fucked up 2016 EURef and have voluntarily withdrawn from polling voting intention until they can fix things, which I thought reflected well on them.
They do not suffer much financially. For example, TNS-BRMB have now been taken over by Kantar, which is a bigger company doing consumer research generally. I *think* polling companies are either small companies dominated by wealthy individuals who do polling as a hobby or - less insulting - a legitimate personal belief in the value of polling (cf Ashcroft), or subdivisions of much larger conglomerates. At both extremes, the financial loss is not important but the reputational loss is important.
Pollsters have an emotional attachment to getting their results right, and invest personal pride and reputation in doing so. They are very like academics in that way and there is an overlap: they enjoy each other's company. So don't think they don't try to get it right, and they do suffer when they get it wrong.
But...they don't bleed.
Peter Kellner championed phone polls in the EUref and was wrong. But he did not lose his house. Lord Cooper's firm Populus had Remain with a 10-pt lead and will not die in the gutter. Their loss is reputational but not serious. I sometimes wonder what would happen if somebody put a gun to their head: I assume the results would be...interesting
I appreciate your response. Seems reasoned and well thought-through, thank you.
Comments
Locking them up only gives them an opportunity to create more Jihadis in prison.
https://www.ft.com/content/27f63d10-de81-11e2-b990-00144feab7de
I can brook criticism of policing cuts, but the security forces have had their funding increased and what the fuck has armed forces cuts got to do with it? Which army regiment would have been tasked with stopping mainland terrorism if not for the cuts?
NEW THREAD
My hunch is that we will see calls for ID cards and 72hrs detention coming back at some point.
Agree with other posters that May is a bit hopeless but Corbyn / McDonnell / Abbott are far far worse.
Anecdotally, a friend was recently appointed to chair a committee at a reasonably well known public institution close to a busy meeting/choke point (don't want to be too specific), and he was surprised to learn that at particularly busy times there's frequently an armed observation unit placed on its roof.
I doubt there will be a public suspension of local campaigning, because they know it's not entirely under their control. But I would expect the parties to send out advisory emails to their local campaigners and IMO it would be foolish to continue with it today. Let's hope we can resume tomorrow.
Without going all SeanT it is getting increasingly hard to see any kind of laissez faire attitude to Islam surviving this in the medium term. We have allowed a different society to flourish in our midst under the labels of freedom of religion and multiculturalism. It has not gone well.
These bastards don't deserve to win even the smallest of concessions, the most meagre of victories. Care for the injured, respect the dead. And give two-fingered salute to those who want to change us by force.
The only storm cloud on the horizon will be if the Brexit negotiations are perceived to be going badly. At that point,, there might be murmurings that "she was poor in the election campaign...time to move on...fresh team to deal with Brussels..."
*All the above predicated of course on her winning a useable majority on Thursday.
Tax cuts for the rich again.
Cut police budgets = more terrorism = more Tory MPs in parliament.