politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » NEW PB/Polling Matters podcast: That latest YouGov forecast, pollster wars & TMay’s lost momentum
On this week’s episode of the PB/Polling Matters podcast Keiran is joined by Chris Curtis from YouGov and Adam Drummond of Opinium to discuss the latest polling and General Election campaign developments.
Owen JonesVerified account @OwenJones84 2h2 hours ago More Amber Rudd says the best person to lead Britain is someone who is too weak and scared to turn up to a TV debate.
May may be a reasonable administrator ( the evidence is mixed) but she is a shite politician. She has come seriously close to losing an unlosable election against an incompetent unelectable dork. A truly remarkable achievement.
Hopefully the good sense of the British people will elect May despite her very best efforts. She doesn't deserve it but we don't have a viable choice.
I doubt if debates in themselves change voting intentions much but the main story from this debates is that May did not take part meaning continuing negative coverage. Not helpful in getting the core message across about who is best able to get a good Brexit deal.
More tightening in the polls to be expected. Corbyn for all his many faults is proving once again to be an excellent campaigner. He has proved that in winning two leadership elections and I am finding it hard not to envisage a victory for him in this election.
The message of coalition of chaos and friend of Hamas et al is not being heard.
not in your world but in the real world Corbyn is toxic and the silent majority will dismiss him on June 8
He's toxic in my world too but he has not been properly challenged and as far as I can tell he is the one with the momentum (and I don't just mean his Corbyistas) in this election.
That's what the polls say, although apart from YouGov they still say good Tory win.
Owen JonesVerified account @OwenJones84 2h2 hours ago More Amber Rudd says the best person to lead Britain is someone who is too weak and scared to turn up to a TV debate.
It's a fine line of attack, although of course it is a plausible premise that someone might be better at governance than debating on TV.
First of all, it looks like the BPC is getting its excuses in early for any polling failure.
"The Council thus resolves to commission for publication and launch in autumn 2019, a report that describes the methods being used by its members in their polls of UK election voting intentions and how these methods have changed since 2015. This report will be launched at a seminar at which individual member companies will present details of their current methodology.
This motion was, of course, written in the expectation that, given the terms of the Fixed Terms Parliament Act, the next general election would be held in May 2020. The decision of the Prime Minister, endorsed by the House of Commons, that a snap election should be held on 8 June 2017 has meant that the BPC has been unable to implement its motion by holding an event and publishing a report as it originally intended."
Now look at what YouGov say in their response to how they have changed their panel post-2015
"Panel Recruitment
Since 2015 we have focused our efforts at recruiting people into our panel of potential respondents more specifically upon those who belong to groups that were under-represented in our samples during the 2015 election, particularly those with a low level of interest in politics, younger panellists with low educational qualifications, and those who did not vote at the previous general election."
That seems in a nutshell what might be happening with YouGov and its results. Seems like a recipe for disaster but who knows?
IF the YouGov Seat Model is right, then the Tories' problems are encapsulated in 3 seats:
In Bootle, there is projected to be a much-fabled Tory surge: their vote is projected to go up 10 points to 18%. But that doesn't get them any bang for their buck since Labour will still safely romp home
In Christchurch, again, the Tories are set to rocket from a pensioners' bonus, with their vote also projected to go up by 10% there, taking them to 68%. But that also doesn't get them any extra bang for their buck, since they already hold that seat.
Meanwhile, in their #1 target seat Chester, they're projected to get 44% -- that's up only 1% on 2015, and leaves them trailing Labour by more than 5%.
IF the YouGov Seat Model is right, then the Tories' problems are encapsulated in 3 seats:
In Bootle, there is projected to be a much-fabled Tory surge: their vote is projected to go up 10 points to 18%. But that doesn't get them any bang for their buck since Labour will still safely romp home
In Christchurch, again, the Tories are set to rocket from a pensioners' bonus, with their vote also projected to go up by 10% there, taking them to 68%. But that also doesn't get them any extra bang for their buck, since they already hold that seat.
Meanwhile, in their #1 target seat Chester, they're projected to get 44% -- that's up only 1% on 2015, and leaves them trailing Labour by more than 5%.
That's all IF YouGov is correct....
I'd urge extreme caution on that Yougov model. Hanretty with some welsh corrections is better. We might see more welsh info tommorow.
Adam BoultonVerified account @adamboultonSKY 9m9 minutes ago More Tory sympathisers rubbishing of #bbcdebates suggests to me they are a little bit worried about Where's May? Good tactics by JC
The massive Labour protest that greeted Amber Rudd "Where's May" works in the Tories' favour I think.
Why?
It's like when John Major was pelted by eggs in 1992. Some people don't like that sort of spectacle. It looks like the rule of the mob taking over. I understand some Labour voters hate Tories, I mean really hate them and their emotions carry them away but it repels non tribal Labour people i.e. 70% plus of the population.
There is a plan to upgrade the rail line between Hastings and London. Plenty of people in Hastings think this would be good for the area - and that it is more likely to happen if the local MP is in the cabinet and in a position to push it through. If Hastings home owners vote for what they think is most likely to benefit them financially they'll vote for Amber Rudd.
You'll still have to put up with narrower carriages than everyone else; that tunnel south of Sevenoaks killed enough people digging it the first time.
The plan is to upgrade the line to Ashford and then use the high speed line into St Pancras rather than go via Sevenoaks.
IF the YouGov Seat Model is right, then the Tories' problems are encapsulated in 3 seats:
In Bootle, there is projected to be a much-fabled Tory surge: their vote is projected to go up 10 points to 18%. But that doesn't get them any bang for their buck since Labour will still safely romp home
In Christchurch, again, the Tories are set to rocket from a pensioners' bonus, with their vote also projected to go up by 10% there, taking them to 68%. But that also doesn't get them any extra bang for their buck, since they already hold that seat.
Meanwhile, in their #1 target seat Chester, they're projected to get 44% -- that's up only 1% on 2015, and leaves them trailing Labour by more than 5%.
That's all IF YouGov is correct....
I'd urge extreme caution on that Yougov model. Hanretty with some welsh corrections is better. We might see more welsh info tommorow.
Hanretty doesn't seem to be taking into account demographics of different seats AT ALL.
I'm very doubtful that the gap between the two parties is as small as 3-4% like YouGov claim (10% is much closer to the mark I think, maybe a bit less on a good day for Lab) but their workings of how proportionally the votes are going to stack up, which seats the parties will increase/decrease the most in, looks pretty sound to me. Whatever their voteshare lead on the day, I think the Tories will have a smaller lead in seats than UNS would indicate.
The general population is far less "twitterised" than many of the opinion formers assume and let's be honest, if you are accessing a political betting website at 10pm in the evening, you are not normal, myself included.
For all the twitter and social media frenzy of JC's supporters, the "silent majority" are likely to go with May, and in a big way.
THAT's NOTHING! I did the Settle to Carlisle rail line today!
Mwahahahaha!
Hi Sunil, Glad you're here to make me feel better with your trains. I did the Leigh guided busway today. Slightly outside your usual idiom, but I'd recommend it. Comfier than the comfiest train, with a splendid view from the upstairs deck.
The massive Labour protest that greeted Amber Rudd "Where's May" works in the Tories' favour I think.
Why?
It's like when John Major was pelted by eggs in 1992. Some people don't like that sort of spectacle. It looks like the rule of the mob taking over. I understand some Labour voters hate Tories, I mean really hate them and their emotions carry them away but it repels non tribal Labour people i.e. 70% plus of the population.
We have a long and proud tradition of noisy, sometimes rowdy political events in Britain. It is a tradition I am particularly proud of. If people don't like our culture...
By being the only one to not turn up for the squabble, T May showing just how strong she is.
I did think this while watching the coverage on the 10pm News. It just looked like a bunch of political dwarves squabling among themselves, I had to switch over temporarily, the SNP twit was especially irritating. There is an argument that May is better off out - rise above it.
First of all, it looks like the BPC is getting its excuses in early for any polling failure.
"The Council thus resolves to commission for publication and launch in autumn 2019, a report that describes the methods being used by its members in their polls of UK election voting intentions and how these methods have changed since 2015. This report will be launched at a seminar at which individual member companies will present details of their current methodology.
This motion was, of course, written in the expectation that, given the terms of the Fixed Terms Parliament Act, the next general election would be held in May 2020. The decision of the Prime Minister, endorsed by the House of Commons, that a snap election should be held on 8 June 2017 has meant that the BPC has been unable to implement its motion by holding an event and publishing a report as it originally intended."
Now look at what YouGov say in their response to how they have changed their panel post-2015
"Panel Recruitment
Since 2015 we have focused our efforts at recruiting people into our panel of potential respondents more specifically upon those who belong to groups that were under-represented in our samples during the 2015 election, particularly those with a low level of interest in politics, younger panellists with low educational qualifications, and those who did not vote at the previous general election."
That seems in a nutshell what might be happening with YouGov and its results. Seems like a recipe for disaster but who knows?
It's a Groucho Marx paradox (as in I would not want to belong to a club which would have me as a member): they are setting out to gain recruits who pass the test of being the sort of people who would never in a thousand years want to be recruited by them. As they are not going to volunteer the recruiters are stuffed. Perhaps the courts could be encouraged to make it a condition of bail that you do 3 political surveys a week, or VI questions could be incorporated into the process of logging on to claim benefits.
The massive Labour protest that greeted Amber Rudd "Where's May" works in the Tories' favour I think.
Why?
It's like when John Major was pelted by eggs in 1992. Some people don't like that sort of spectacle. It looks like the rule of the mob taking over. I understand some Labour voters hate Tories, I mean really hate them and their emotions carry them away but it repels non tribal Labour people i.e. 70% plus of the population.
We have a long and proud tradition of noisy, sometimes rowdy political events in Britain. It is a tradition I am particularly proud of. If people don't like our culture...
Oh of course Labour should be allowed to do it, but I think it is counterproductive to the mass audience
"Why's May not there" "Biased audience and hecklers, why should she turn up for this shitshow"
Also, worth bearing in mind that, ahead of the 2016 local elections, YouGov were the only pollster giving Labour leads, and predicting they would do quite well in the local elections.
On Local Elections Day, Labour did indeed have a lead in voteshare....
Did we not do this nonsense just in 2015 ( where Yougov were miles out) ? I mean why are these people getting paid for this nonsense?
I should try to cultivate a stiffer upper lip if I were you. If Theresa May does suffer ill effects from not attending the debate, we may well see at least one poll with Labour ahead by the final weekend of the campaign.
All the pollsters are picking up samples with the Tories basically 3% or so ahead of Labour. But in this country Tories are overwhemingly more likely not to tell someone how they will vote. So the pollsters make various guesswork assumptions as to how to allocate the "shy ones".
It's immensely difficult compared to say France where everyone just says who they'll actually vote for,
Did we not do this nonsense just in 2015 ( where Yougov were miles out) ? I mean why are these people getting paid for this nonsense?
I should try to cultivate a stiffer upper lip if I were you. If Theresa May does suffer ill effects from not attending the debate, we may well see at least one poll with Labour ahead by the final weekend of the campaign.
By being the only one to not turn up for the squabble, T May showing just how strong she is.
I did think this while watching the coverage on the 10pm News. It just looked like a bunch of political dwarves squabling among themselves, I had to switch over temporarily, the SNP twit was especially irritating. There is an argument that May is better off out - rise above it.
That's what the Cameroons said when Dave swerved the 2015 debate
Wouldnt the easiest thing to do, if available, is get voter registration figures and see if there has been a genuinely big move in new registrations say compared to 2015 or before the Brexiot poll? If, as seems to be suggested either pollsters are over or under estimated the likelihood of the younger demographics to turn out, wouldn't a surge in registrations suggest at least there might be something worth analysing further?
Wouldnt the easiest thing to do, if available, is get voter registration figures and see if there has been a genuinely big move in new registrations say compared to 2015 or before the Brexiot poll? If, as seems to be suggested either pollsters are over or under estimated the likelihood of the younger demographics to turn out, wouldn't a surge in registrations suggest at least there might be something worth analysing further?
I have read on here that the surge at the deadline was less than half the surge before the EU referendum.
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Amber Rudd says the best person to lead Britain is someone who is too weak and scared to turn up to a TV debate.
@AmberRuddHR - an ex-stockbroker and descendant of Charles II. This is the elite that wants Britain to stay rigged
Hopefully the good sense of the British people will elect May despite her very best efforts. She doesn't deserve it but we don't have a viable choice.
God I can't wait for this to be over.
THAT's NOTHING! I did the Settle to Carlisle rail line today!
Mwahahahaha!
http://www.britishpollingcouncil.org/how-have-the-polls-changed-since-2015/
First of all, it looks like the BPC is getting its excuses in early for any polling failure.
"The Council thus resolves to commission for publication and launch in autumn 2019, a report that describes the methods being used by its members in their polls of UK election voting intentions and how these methods have changed since 2015. This report will be launched at a seminar at which individual member companies will present details of their current methodology.
This motion was, of course, written in the expectation that, given the terms of the Fixed Terms Parliament Act, the next general election would be held in May 2020. The decision of the Prime Minister, endorsed by the House of Commons, that a snap election should be held on 8 June 2017 has meant that the BPC has been unable to implement its motion by holding an event and publishing a report as it originally intended."
Now look at what YouGov say in their response to how they have changed their panel post-2015
"Panel Recruitment
Since 2015 we have focused our efforts at recruiting people into our panel of potential respondents more specifically upon those who belong to groups that were under-represented in our samples during the 2015 election, particularly those with a low level of interest in politics, younger panellists with low educational qualifications, and those who did not vote at the previous general election."
That seems in a nutshell what might be happening with YouGov and its results. Seems like a recipe for disaster but who knows?
In Bootle, there is projected to be a much-fabled Tory surge: their vote is projected to go up 10 points to 18%. But that doesn't get them any bang for their buck since Labour will still safely romp home
In Christchurch, again, the Tories are set to rocket from a pensioners' bonus, with their vote also projected to go up by 10% there, taking them to 68%. But that also doesn't get them any extra bang for their buck, since they already hold that seat.
Meanwhile, in their #1 target seat Chester, they're projected to get 44% -- that's up only 1% on 2015, and leaves them trailing Labour by more than 5%.
That's all IF YouGov is correct....
Thank God its open again
"Corbyn is offering the electorate a free lunch and they're buying it".
http://survation.com/tide-turned-david-cowling/
Some food for thought, Tories still ahead on key areas despite campaign foul ups.
Do you not think the PM should defend her policies
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Tory sympathisers rubbishing of #bbcdebates suggests to me they are a little bit worried about Where's May? Good tactics by JC
Con 42%
Lab 39%
LD 7%
UKIP 4%
Oth 8%
https://www.varsity.co.uk/images/derived/article-objects/md5-6146fad08e4b99482dc8082c34787fb4/18904.jpeg
I'm very doubtful that the gap between the two parties is as small as 3-4% like YouGov claim (10% is much closer to the mark I think, maybe a bit less on a good day for Lab) but their workings of how proportionally the votes are going to stack up, which seats the parties will increase/decrease the most in, looks pretty sound to me. Whatever their voteshare lead on the day, I think the Tories will have a smaller lead in seats than UNS would indicate.
https://www.thinkbox.tv/~/media/Images/Chart-Images/Research/Thinkbox-Research/TV-Nation-Ad-Nation-2016/TV-Nation-Ad-Nation-2016-Slide-08.ashx?la=en&hash=3A95F42E97F42BCC2E88A9BEFDC10C138AF4752C
The general population is far less "twitterised" than many of the opinion formers assume and let's be honest, if you are accessing a political betting website at 10pm in the evening, you are not normal, myself included.
For all the twitter and social media frenzy of JC's supporters, the "silent majority" are likely to go with May, and in a big way.
https://twitter.com/paulnuttallukip/status/870020616807747585
You've had a Tory MP for all of 2 years, ya muppets....
Will the last person voting Conservative please turn out the lights
Glad you're here to make me feel better with your trains. I did the Leigh guided busway today. Slightly outside your usual idiom, but I'd recommend it. Comfier than the comfiest train, with a splendid view from the upstairs deck.
Does anyone actually believe etc etc etc
https://twitter.com/colettebrowne/status/870007849660817410
If so I'll cut Rudd a bit of slack.
Tessy otoh..
"Why's May not there"
"Biased audience and hecklers, why should she turn up for this shitshow"
That makes May look even worse.
Sorry but this is getting childish now.
On Local Elections Day, Labour did indeed have a lead in voteshare....
It's immensely difficult compared to say France where everyone just says who they'll actually vote for,
If Yougov are right, I'll be slashing my wrists.
Not a great time to get some news on Thanet, either.
But that's just me.
Its must less risky
I wasn't in the audience, though.