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politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Tonight’s battle grounds – the seats that are being defended

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  • DoubleCarpetDoubleCarpet Posts: 894
    RobD said:

    Looking on Sky, there doesn't seem to be any planned special coverage for the Local elections this year....

    Because of the woeful coverage this year I have decided to dust off my local elections spreadsheet from a few years ago for the English councils. Hopefully will be able to keep it up to date in real time, apart from a few hours for sleep! As you can see we are 18/2386 (or 0.75%) of the way there!

    https://goo.gl/uzcozl

    I'm on the fence about adding Wales, but Scotland is out of the question given (what I think are) significant boundary change which makes it difficult to calculate who won what ward of who without access to notional results (there are a few of those in England too, so I have just guesstimated those Councils for now).
    Rob that is an awesome set of spreadsheets, great work!! :)
  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670
    MTimT said:



    Re. the proposed US Healthcare reform, is it right that Congress have added an exemption for their own members regarding pre-existing conditions? If so, that's your periodic reminder that the GOP are just as ***ntish as their tangerine president.

    Both parties give themselves superb healthcare that will never be available to their voters. Perhaps the only way the US will get a good healthcare system is if a constitutional amendment is passed requiring that members of congress and the Administration get the same healthcare options as Jo Schmo.
    Errr wasn't one of the changes the Pubs put into Obamacare was that congressmen and women had to buy their health insurance through the exchanges?
  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670
    BigRich said:

    @MTimT What do you think of the GOP's healthcare plan? As well as their belief that healthcare should be a free-market thing?

    I don't get their thinking at all.

    Calling the Trump/Republican plans for Healthcare 'free market' is like calling a Pork Pie Vegetarian food because it has pasty round the out side!

    The Republicans have got confused between being Pro-Market and Pro-Business, to be fair most politicians end up being Pro-special interest of some sort.

    I passionately believe the that the a more free market approach would provide better, perhaps much better healthcare and health outcomes for more people and lower cost, to them and the taxpayer. I may be wrong, I know that, you may disagree with me, and I would l like to hear your reasons for doing so. But please, Please don't pretend that US healthcare is particular free market, its not the Canadian system for instance is much more free market, and the Singaporean system even more so.
    Healthcare is not, and can never be, a free market. You can't comparison shop care providers when our unconscious and bleeding out from a car accident.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 72,158
    A rather vicious analysis of Sion Simon from a former Labour minister:

    https://www.expressandstar.com/news/politics/2017/05/02/if-sion-simon-is-elected-mayor-then-there-will-be-queues-of-people-leaving-the-west-midlands-at-birmingham-airport--digby-jones/

    Mind you, I say it's vicious but there's nothing untruthful in it.
  • MarkSeniorMarkSenior Posts: 4,699

    rcs1000 said:

    kle4 said:

    Any chance of LDs holding more of these English seats than Lab? Would mean a very bad night for Lab, presumably.

    I think that's almost inevitable, given the nature of the seats being contested.
    Not sure about that. Remember the great Stephen Fisher is projecting net local election LOSSES for the LDs

    He forecast Conservative gains last year and they ended up with net losses
  • CyanCyan Posts: 1,262
    SeanT said:

    Cyan said:

    Sandpit said:

    SeanT said:

    I've just realised how much we are going to miss Her Majesty and the Duke of E, when they are really gone.

    The Queen has basically been around - a source of stability and reassurance in a changing world - for as long as any one alive can remember. Say "The Queen" in most countries, and people think of her. She is one of the most famous people on the planet. She is the national mother.

    I expect major league grief when she goes. It will be quite a rupture. Even Republicans might get a bit wobbly-chinned.

    The most amazing fact to come out of today's Royal story - the Queen and the DoE will celebrate their seventieth wedding anniversary later this year. Seventieth.
    In other news, parents of triplets born earlier today saluted the wise and benevolent rule of comrade Enver Hoxha.
    Pff!

    The Queen embodies so many of our memories, just from having been around so long. When I was born she had already been on the throne a decade, and I'm 53!

    She's always been there. On the stamps and coins, a reassuring presence, a precious continuity. A link with the past. And she has done her job with total dignity, lots of hard work, and a sense of real duty. You may despise monarchy, as an institution, but it is very hard to despise Elizabeth the Second as a person.
    I think it was Peregrine Worsthorne who told the story that when he accompanied her to art galleries, she would point at paintings and say "That's mine... That's mine..." When a guest came to stay with her with their poodle, the "queen's" terribly trained and appallingly badly managed corgis fought with the dog and killed it. She was the owner, so that was her fault. But she flew into a rage at the blood on her carpet and told the guest to get out. She's a hard bitch. There is no reason to think she doesn't have a laugh with her vile far-right husband after he gets caught sneering at the disabled, the unemployed, or the dark-skinned. It's been her choice to remain the monarch. She's a human being even if her face is on the currency, and she could have chosen otherwise. It was her choice not to intervene to save the lives of Derek Bentley, Michael X, and many others. She has chosen to remain the "figurehead" (although she's much more than that) and the face representing the state while it has engaged in horrendous slaughter in countries such as Iraq. If she "didn't understand", she shouldn't have signed the papers. No way should she be let off the hook. Get her in the dock at the Hague alongside Tony Blair.

  • SquareRootSquareRoot Posts: 7,095
    jayfdee said:

    SeanT said:

    I've just realised how much we are going to miss Her Majesty and the Duke of E, when they are really gone.

    The Queen has basically been around - a source of stability and reassurance in a changing world - for as long as any one alive can remember. Say "The Queen" in most countries, and people think of her. She is one of the most famous people on the planet. She is the national mother.

    I expect major league grief when she goes. It will be quite a rupture. Even Republicans might get a bit wobbly-chinned.

    Have to agree, they will be greatly missed. I had the great pleasure of meeting the Queen and the Duke at Buck Palace, the Duke later came and talked with me and friends for a short while.
    Better still was Princess Anne, she also came and socialised with us, she was very down to earth, but all good things come to an end, along came Gordo who was glad handing everyone and was very dismissive when I tried to discuss matters with him.
    I was never particularly a Royalist, but they do a fantastic job, and will be sorely missed.
    Strong and stable.. just like Mrs May and her Govt ;)
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,719

    2nd - like SNP

    numpty
  • Richard_TyndallRichard_Tyndall Posts: 32,726
    Cyan said:

    SeanT said:

    Cyan said:

    Sandpit said:

    SeanT said:

    I've just realised how much we are going to miss Her Majesty and the Duke of E, when they are really gone.

    The Queen has basically been around - a source of stability and reassurance in a changing world - for as long as any one alive can remember. Say "The Queen" in most countries, and people think of her. She is one of the most famous people on the planet. She is the national mother.

    I expect major league grief when she goes. It will be quite a rupture. Even Republicans might get a bit wobbly-chinned.

    The most amazing fact to come out of today's Royal story - the Queen and the DoE will celebrate their seventieth wedding anniversary later this year. Seventieth.
    In other news, parents of triplets born earlier today saluted the wise and benevolent rule of comrade Enver Hoxha.
    Pff!

    The Queen embodies so many of our memories, just from having been around so long. When I was born she had already been on the throne a decade, and I'm 53!

    She's always been there. On the stamps and coins, a reassuring presence, a precious continuity. A link with the past. And she has done her job with total dignity, lots of hard work, and a sense of real duty. You may despise monarchy, as an institution, but it is very hard to despise Elizabeth the Second as a person.
    I think it was Peregrine Worsthorne who told the story that when he accompanied her to art galleries, she would point at paintings and say "That's mine... That's mine..." When a guest came to stay with her with their poodle, the "queen's" terribly trained and appallingly badly managed corgis fought with the dog and killed it. She was the owner, so that was her fault. But she flew into a rage at the blood on her carpet and told the guest to get out. She's a hard bitch. There is no reason to think she doesn't have a laugh with her vile far-right husband after he gets caught sneering at the disabled, the unemployed, or the dark-skinned. It's been her choice to remain the monarch. She's a human being even if her face is on the currency, and she could have chosen otherwise. It was her choice not to intervene to save the lives of Derek Bentley, Michael X, and many others. She has chosen to remain the "figurehead" (although she's much more than that) and the face representing the state while it has engaged in horrendous slaughter in countries such as Iraq. If she "didn't understand", she shouldn't have signed the papers. No way should she be let off the hook. Get her in the dock at the Hague alongside Tony Blair.

    LOL. Classic trolling. You really are a sad twisted little man.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,830
    edited May 2017
    Cyan said:

    SeanT said:

    Cyan said:

    Sandpit said:

    SeanT said:

    I've just realised how much we are going to miss Her Majesty and the Duke of E, when they are really gone.

    The Queen has basically been around - a source of stability and reassurance in a changing world - for as long as any one alive can remember. Say "The Queen" in most countries, and people think of her. She is one of the most famous people on the planet. She is the national mother.

    I expect major league grief when she goes. It will be quite a rupture. Even Republicans might get a bit wobbly-chinned.

    The most amazing fact to come out of today's Royal story - the Queen and the DoE will celebrate their seventieth wedding anniversary later this year. Seventieth.
    In other news, parents of triplets born earlier today saluted the wise and benevolent rule of comrade Enver Hoxha.
    Pff!

    The Queen embodies so many of our memories, just from having been around so long. When I was born she had already been on the throne a decade, and I'm 53!

    She's always been there. On the stamps and coins, a reassuring presence, a precious continuity. A link with the past. And she has done her job with total dignity, lots of hard work, and a sense of real duty. You may despise monarchy, as an institution, but it is very hard to despise Elizabeth the Second as a person.
    She's a hard bitch. There is no reason to think she doesn't have a laugh with her vile far-right husband
    Except for how I have never seen an account, even from republicans, which made such an accusation, so it cannot be a common one. I've seen her accused of being cold, boring, even dim (because this is a free country and people are able to do so), but not that. So there's plenty of reason to not think that.

    You don't have to like the institution, or her, but if she were even half, even quarter as bad as you say, her personal popularity and the institution's popularity would not be as high as it is.
  • david_herdsondavid_herdson Posts: 17,989

    rcs1000 said:

    kle4 said:

    Any chance of LDs holding more of these English seats than Lab? Would mean a very bad night for Lab, presumably.

    I think that's almost inevitable, given the nature of the seats being contested.
    Not sure about that. Remember the great Stephen Fisher is projecting net local election LOSSES for the LDs

    He forecast Conservative gains last year and they ended up with net losses
    Pretty much margin of error though.
  • jayfdeejayfdee Posts: 618
    ydoethur said:

    A rather vicious analysis of Sion Simon from a former Labour minister:

    https://www.expressandstar.com/news/politics/2017/05/02/if-sion-simon-is-elected-mayor-then-there-will-be-queues-of-people-leaving-the-west-midlands-at-birmingham-airport--digby-jones/

    Mind you, I say it's vicious but there's nothing untruthful in it.

    Got to meet Digby once, he is a very impressive person and would be a useful asset in government. He may well be a good negotiator.
  • isamisam Posts: 41,118
    Cyan said:

    SeanT said:

    Cyan said:

    Sandpit said:

    SeanT said:

    I've just realised how much we are going to miss Her Majesty and the Duke of E, when they are really gone.

    The Queen has basically been around - a source of stability and reassurance in a changing world - for as long as any one alive can remember. Say "The Queen" in most countries, and people think of her. She is one of the most famous people on the planet. She is the national mother.

    I expect major league grief when she goes. It will be quite a rupture. Even Republicans might get a bit wobbly-chinned.

    The most amazing fact to come out of today's Royal story - the Queen and the DoE will celebrate their seventieth wedding anniversary later this year. Seventieth.
    In other news, parents of triplets born earlier today saluted the wise and benevolent rule of comrade Enver Hoxha.
    Pff!

    The Queen embodies so many of our memories, just from having been around so long. When I was born she had already been on the throne a decade, and I'm 53!

    She's always been there. On the stamps and coins, a reassuring presence, a precious continuity. A link with the past. And she has done her job with total dignity, lots of hard work, and a sense of real duty. You may despise monarchy, as an institution, but it is very hard to despise Elizabeth the Second as a person.
    I think it was Peregrine Worsthorne who told the story that when he accompanied her to art galleries, she would point at paintings and say "That's mine... That's mine..." When a guest came to stay with her with their poodle, the "queen's" terribly trained and appallingly badly managed corgis fought with the dog and killed it. She was the owner, so that was her fault. But she flew into a rage at the blood on her carpet and told the guest to get out. She's a hard bitch. There is no reason to think she doesn't have a laugh with her vile far-right husband after he gets caught sneering at the disabled, the unemployed, or the dark-skinned. It's been her choice to remain the monarch. She's a human being even if her face is on the currency, and she could have chosen otherwise. It was her choice not to intervene to save the lives of Derek Bentley, Michael X, and many others. She has chosen to remain the "figurehead" (although she's much more than that) and the face representing the state while it has engaged in horrendous slaughter in countries such as Iraq. If she "didn't understand", she shouldn't have signed the papers. No way should she be let off the hook. Get her in the dock at the Hague alongside Tony Blair.

    I heard that too. A real nasty piece of work :lol:
  • SquareRootSquareRoot Posts: 7,095
    Cyan said:

    SeanT said:

    Cyan said:

    Sandpit said:

    SeanT said:

    I've just realised how much we are going to miss Her Majesty and the Duke of E, when they are really gone.

    The Queen has basically been around - a source of stability and reassurance in a changing world - for as long as any one alive can remember. Say "The Queen" in most countries, and people think of her. She is one of the most famous people on the planet. She is the national mother.

    I expect major league grief when she goes. It will be quite a rupture. Even Republicans might get a bit wobbly-chinned.

    The most amazing fact to come out of today's Royal story - the Queen and the DoE will celebrate their seventieth wedding anniversary later this year. Seventieth.
    In other news, parents of triplets born earlier today saluted the wise and benevolent rule of comrade Enver Hoxha.
    Pff!

    The Queen embodies so many of our memories, just from having been around so long. When I was born she had already been on the throne a decade, and I'm 53!

    She's always been there. On the stamps and coins, a reassuring presence, a precious continuity. A link with the past. And she has done her job with total dignity, lots of hard work, and a sense of real duty. You may despise monarchy, as an institution, but it is very hard to despise Elizabeth the Second as a person.
    I think it was Peregrine Worsthorne who told the story that when he accompanied her to art galleries, she would point at paintings and say "That's mine... That's mine..." When a guest came to stay with her with their poodle, the "queen's" terribly trained and appallingly badly managed corgis fought with the dog and killed it. She was the owner, so that was her fault. But she flew into a rage at the blood on her carpet and told the guest to get out. She's a hard bitch. There is no reason to think she doesn't have a laugh with her vile far-right husband after he gets caught sneering at the disabled, the unemployed, or the dark-skinned. It's been her choice to remain the monarch. She's a human being even if her face is on the currency, and she could have chosen otherwise. It was her choice not to intervene to save the lives of Derek Bentley, Michael X, and many others. She has chosen to remain the "figurehead" (although she's much more than that) and the face representing the state while it has engaged in horrendous slaughter in countries such as Iraq. If she "didn't understand", she shouldn't have signed the papers. No way should she be let off the hook. Get her in the dock at the Hague alongside Tony Blair.

    So you are not a fan of the Queen then.. Why don't you just fuck off to some left wing paradise like Venezuela.
  • david_herdsondavid_herdson Posts: 17,989
    ydoethur said:

    A rather vicious analysis of Sion Simon from a former Labour minister:

    https://www.expressandstar.com/news/politics/2017/05/02/if-sion-simon-is-elected-mayor-then-there-will-be-queues-of-people-leaving-the-west-midlands-at-birmingham-airport--digby-jones/

    Mind you, I say it's vicious but there's nothing untruthful in it.

    Digby Jones was never a Labour minister though he was a minister in a Labour government.
  • Arthur_PennyArthur_Penny Posts: 198

    rcs1000 said:

    kle4 said:

    Any chance of LDs holding more of these English seats than Lab? Would mean a very bad night for Lab, presumably.

    I think that's almost inevitable, given the nature of the seats being contested.
    Not sure about that. Remember the great Stephen Fisher is projecting net local election LOSSES for the LDs

    He forecast Conservative gains last year and they ended up with net losses
    Pretty much margin of error though.
    Trump beating Clinton was MOE as well - small differences can make big differences.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,830

    Cyan said:

    SeanT said:

    Cyan said:

    Sandpit said:

    SeanT said:

    I've just realised how much we are going to miss Her Majesty and the Duke of E, when they are really gone.

    The Queen has basically been around - a source of stability and reassurance in a changing world - for as long as any one alive can remember. Say "The Queen" in most countries, and people think of her. She is one of the most famous people on the planet. She is the national mother.

    I expect major league grief when she goes. It will be quite a rupture. Even Republicans might get a bit wobbly-chinned.

    The most amazing fact to come out of today's Royal story - the Queen and the DoE will celebrate their seventieth wedding anniversary later this year. Seventieth.
    In other news, parents of triplets born earlier today saluted the wise and benevolent rule of comrade Enver Hoxha.
    Pff!

    The Queen embodies so many of our memories, just from having been around so long. When I was born she had already been on the throne a decade, and I'm 53!

    She's always been there. On the stamps and coins, a reassuring presence, a precious continuity. A link with the past. And she has done her job with total dignity, lots of hard work, and a sense of real duty. You may despise monarchy, as an institution, but it is very hard to despise Elizabeth the Second as a person.
    I think it was Peregrine Worsthorne who told the story that when he accompanied her to art galleries, she would point at painting

    So you are not a fan of the Queen then.. Why don't you just fuck off to some left wing paradise like Venezuela.
    It's fishing for an insult to react against in order to make the visceral hatred seem more rational, don't rise to it.
  • BigRichBigRich Posts: 3,492
    Alistair said:

    BigRich said:

    @MTimT What do you think of the GOP's healthcare plan? As well as their belief that healthcare should be a free-market thing?

    I don't get their thinking at all.

    Calling the Trump/Republican plans for Healthcare 'free market' is like calling a Pork Pie Vegetarian food because it has pasty round the out side!

    The Republicans have got confused between being Pro-Market and Pro-Business, to be fair most politicians end up being Pro-special interest of some sort.

    I passionately believe the that the a more free market approach would provide better, perhaps much better healthcare and health outcomes for more people and lower cost, to them and the taxpayer. I may be wrong, I know that, you may disagree with me, and I would l like to hear your reasons for doing so. But please, Please don't pretend that US healthcare is particular free market, its not the Canadian system for instance is much more free market, and the Singaporean system even more so.
    Healthcare is not, and can never be, a free market. You can't comparison shop care providers when our unconscious and bleeding out from a car accident.
    You may not like it, but in most of the developed world the, market forces play a much bigger role than they do in this nation, and unsurprisingly get much better results.

    If you are concerned about accident and emergency, then fine we could leave that as it is in this nation, and use market forces to cover the rest, general practice, elective surgery, long term medication, and so on.

    A and E only accounts for a small amount of the total cost. It is impotent, but to often opponent of free markets use its highly emotive significance to exaggerate its size and try to use it to shut down the debate about the rest of healthcare.
  • AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    Cyan said:

    SeanT said:

    Cyan said:

    Sandpit said:

    SeanT said:

    I've just realised how much we are going to miss Her Majesty and the Duke of E, when they are really gone.

    The Queen has basically been around - a source of stability and reassurance in a changing world - for as long as any one alive can remember. Say "The Queen" in most countries, and people think of her. She is one of the most famous people on the planet. She is the national mother.

    I expect major league grief when she goes. It will be quite a rupture. Even Republicans might get a bit wobbly-chinned.

    The most amazing fact to come out of today's Royal story - the Queen and the DoE will celebrate their seventieth wedding anniversary later this year. Seventieth.
    In other news, parents of triplets born earlier today saluted the wise and benevolent rule of comrade Enver Hoxha.
    Pff!

    The Queen embodies so many of our memories, just from having been around so long. When I was born she had already been on the throne a decade, and I'm 53!

    She's always been there. On the stamps and coins, a reassuring presence, a precious continuity. A link with the past. And she has done her job with total dignity, lots of hard work, and a sense of real duty. You may despise monarchy, as an institution, but it is very hard to despise Elizabeth the Second as a person.
    I think it was Peregrine Worsthorne who told the story that when he accompanied her to art galleries, she would point at paintings and say "That's mine... That's mine..." When a guest came to stay with her with their poodle, the "queen's" terribly trained and appallingly badly managed corgis fought with the dog and killed it. She was the owner, so that was her fault. But she flew into a rage at the blood on her carpet and told the guest to get out. She's a hard bitch. There is no reason to think she doesn't have a laugh with her vile far-right husband after he gets caught sneering at the disabled, the unemployed, or the dark-skinned. It's been her choice to remain the monarch. She's a human being even if her face is on the currency, and she could have chosen otherwise. It was her choice not to intervene to save the lives of Derek Bentley, Michael X, and many others. She has chosen to remain the "figurehead" (although she's much more than that) and the face representing the state while it has engaged in horrendous slaughter in countries such as Iraq. If she "didn't understand", she shouldn't have signed the papers. No way should she be let off the hook. Get her in the dock at the Hague alongside Tony Blair.

    Peregrine Worsthorne is still around at the age of 93. He features prominently on the BBC's 1979 election programme.
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    Cyan said:

    I think it was Peregrine Worsthorne who told the story that when he accompanied her to art galleries, she would point at paintings and say "That's mine... That's mine..." When a guest came to stay with her with their poodle, the "queen's" terribly trained and appallingly badly managed corgis fought with the dog and killed it. She was the owner, so that was her fault. But she flew into a rage at the blood on her carpet and told the guest to get out. She's a hard bitch. There is no reason to think she doesn't have a laugh with her vile far-right husband after he gets caught sneering at the disabled, the unemployed, or the dark-skinned. It's been her choice to remain the monarch. She's a human being even if her face is on the currency, and she could have chosen otherwise. It was her choice not to intervene to save the lives of Derek Bentley, Michael X, and many others. She has chosen to remain the "figurehead" (although she's much more than that) and the face representing the state while it has engaged in horrendous slaughter in countries such as Iraq. If she "didn't understand", she shouldn't have signed the papers. No way should she be let off the hook. Get her in the dock at the Hague alongside Tony Blair.

    The buses don't go where you live, do they?
  • jayfdeejayfdee Posts: 618

    Cyan said:

    SeanT said:

    Cyan said:

    Sandpit said:

    SeanT said:

    I've just realised how much we are going to miss Her Majesty and the Duke of E, when they are really gone.

    The Queen has basically been around - a source of stability and reassurance in a changing world - for as long as any one alive can remember. Say "The Queen" in most countries, and people think of her. She is one of the most famous people on the planet. She is the national mother.

    I expect major league grief when she goes. It will be quite a rupture. Even Republicans might get a bit wobbly-chinned.

    The most amazing fact to come out of today's Royal story - the Queen and the DoE will celebrate their seventieth wedding anniversary later this year. Seventieth.
    In other news, parents of triplets born earlier today saluted the wise and benevolent rule of comrade Enver Hoxha.
    Pff!

    The Queen embodies so many of our memories, just from having been around so long. When I was born she had already been on the throne a decade, and I'm 53!

    She's always been there. On the stamps and coins, a reassuring presence, a precious continuity. A link with the past. And she has done her job with total dignity, lots of hard work, and a sense of real duty. You may despise monarchy, as an institution, but it is very hard to despise Elizabeth the Second as a person.
    I think it was Peregrine Worsthorne who told the story that when he accompanied her to art galleries, she would point at paintings and say "That's mine... That's mine..." When a guest came to stay with her with their poodle, the "queen's" terribly trained and appallingly badly managed corgis fought with the dog and killed it. She was the owner, so that was her fault. But she flew into a rage at the blood on her carpet and told the guest to get out. She's a hard bitch. There is no reason to think she doesn't have a laugh with her vile far-right husband after he gets caught sneering at the disabled, the unemployed, or the dark-skinned. It's been her choice to remain the monarch. She's a human being even if her face is on the currency, and she could have chosen otherwise. It was her choice not to intervene to save the lives of Derek Bentley, Michael X, and many others. She has chosen to remain the "figurehead" (although she's much more than that) and the face representing the state while it has engaged in horrendous slaughter in countries such as Iraq. If she "didn't understand", she shouldn't have signed the papers. No way should she be let off the hook. Get her in the dock at the Hague alongside Tony Blair.

    So you are not a fan of the Queen then.. Why don't you just fuck off to some left wing paradise like Venezuela.
    Well said.
  • The_ApocalypseThe_Apocalypse Posts: 7,830
    BigRich said:

    @MTimT What do you think of the GOP's healthcare plan? As well as their belief that healthcare should be a free-market thing?

    I don't get their thinking at all.

    Calling the Trump/Republican plans for Healthcare 'free market' is like calling a Pork Pie Vegetarian food because it has pasty round the out side!

    The Republicans have got confused between being Pro-Market and Pro-Business, to be fair most politicians end up being Pro-special interest of some sort.

    I passionately believe the that the a more free market approach would provide better, perhaps much better healthcare and health outcomes for more people and lower cost, to them and the taxpayer. I may be wrong, I know that, you may disagree with me, and I would l like to hear your reasons for doing so. But please, Please don't pretend that US healthcare is particular free market, its not the Canadian system for instance is much more free market, and the Singaporean system even more so.
    So you don't like it either then!

    Re Candian system being more free-market than America, a lot of American Conservatives on Twitter seem to see it as socialist.

    I guess in regards to free market, I'm used to NHS, and the security of not worrying about access to healthcare because the state provides it. I see a free market system has bringing uncertainty in regards to whether you will be able to get treatment.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,830
    edited May 2017

    ydoethur said:

    A rather vicious analysis of Sion Simon from a former Labour minister:

    https://www.expressandstar.com/news/politics/2017/05/02/if-sion-simon-is-elected-mayor-then-there-will-be-queues-of-people-leaving-the-west-midlands-at-birmingham-airport--digby-jones/

    Mind you, I say it's vicious but there's nothing untruthful in it.

    Digby Jones was never a Labour minister though he was a minister in a Labour government.
    A rather fine distinction. Mix the words around just slightly and it works, 'a former minister [for] Labour'. But technically correct, the best kind of correct
  • kyf_100kyf_100 Posts: 4,951
    Cyan said:

    SeanT said:

    Cyan said:

    Sandpit said:

    SeanT said:

    I've just realised how much we are going to miss Her Majesty and the Duke of E, when they are really gone.

    The Queen has basically been around - a source of stability and reassurance in a changing world - for as long as any one alive can remember. Say "The Queen" in most countries, and people think of her. She is one of the most famous people on the planet. She is the national mother.

    I expect major league grief when she goes. It will be quite a rupture. Even Republicans might get a bit wobbly-chinned.

    The most amazing fact to come out of today's Royal story - the Queen and the DoE will celebrate their seventieth wedding anniversary later this year. Seventieth.
    In other news, parents of triplets born earlier today saluted the wise and benevolent rule of comrade Enver Hoxha.
    Pff!

    The Queen embodies so many of our memories, just from having been around so long. When I was born she had already been on the throne a decade, and I'm 53!

    She's always been there. On the stamps and coins, a reassuring presence, a precious continuity. A link with the past. And she has done her job with total dignity, lots of hard work, and a sense of real duty. You may despise monarchy, as an institution, but it is very hard to despise Elizabeth the Second as a person.
    I think it was Peregrine Worsthorne who told the story that when he accompanied her to art galleries, she would point at paintings and say "That's mine... That's mine..." When a guest came to stay with her with their poodle, the "queen's" terribly trained and appallingly badly managed corgis fought with the dog and killed it. She was the owner, so that was her fault. But she flew into a rage at the blood on her carpet and told the guest to get out. She's a hard bitch. There is no reason to think she doesn't have a laugh with her vile far-right husband after he gets caught sneering at the disabled, the unemployed, or the dark-skinned. It's been her choice to remain the monarch. She's a human being even if her face is on the currency, and she could have chosen otherwise. It was her choice not to intervene to save the lives of Derek Bentley, Michael X, and many others. She has chosen to remain the "figurehead" (although she's much more than that) and the face representing the state while it has engaged in horrendous slaughter in countries such as Iraq. If she "didn't understand", she shouldn't have signed the papers. No way should she be let off the hook. Get her in the dock at the Hague alongside Tony Blair.

    You are Chi Onwurah and I claim my ten pounds!
  • AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395

    rcs1000 said:

    kle4 said:

    Any chance of LDs holding more of these English seats than Lab? Would mean a very bad night for Lab, presumably.

    I think that's almost inevitable, given the nature of the seats being contested.
    Not sure about that. Remember the great Stephen Fisher is projecting net local election LOSSES for the LDs

    He pretty much forecast a dead heat in seats at the last general election IIRC.
  • CyanCyan Posts: 1,262
    edited May 2017
    kle4 said:

    Cyan said:

    SeanT said:

    Cyan said:

    Sandpit said:

    SeanT said:

    I've just realised how much we are going to miss Her Majesty and the Duke of E, when they are really gone.

    The Queen has basically been around - a source of stability and reassurance in a changing world - for as long as any one alive can remember. Say "The Queen" in most countries, and people think of her. She is one of the most famous people on the planet. She is the national mother.

    I expect major league grief when she goes. It will be quite a rupture. Even Republicans might get a bit wobbly-chinned.

    The most amazing fact to come out of today's Royal story - the Queen and the DoE will celebrate their seventieth wedding anniversary later this year. Seventieth.
    In other news, parents of triplets born earlier today saluted the wise and benevolent rule of comrade Enver Hoxha.
    Pff!

    The Queen embodies so many of our memories, just from having been around so long. When I was born she had already been on the throne a decade, and I'm 53!

    She's always been there. On the stamps and coins, a reassuring presence, a precious continuity. A link with the past. And she has done her job with total dignity, lots of hard work, and a sense of real duty. You may despise monarchy, as an institution, but it is very hard to despise Elizabeth the Second as a person.
    She's a hard bitch. There is no reason to think she doesn't have a laugh with her vile far-right husband
    Except for how I have never seen an account, even from republicans, which made such an accusation, so it cannot be a common one. I've seen her accused of being cold, boring, even dim (because this is a free country and people are able to do so), but not that. So there's plenty of reason to not think that.

    You don't have to like the institution, or her, but if she were even half, even quarter as bad as you say, her personal popularity and the institution's popularity would not be as high as it is.
    The media is incredibly fawning towards the monarch.

    Even with Prince Philip, they still write things like this, in the Independent: "Prince Philip: The Royal who made the nation laugh, though more at him than with him. A man so heroically out of touch with modern sensibilities, he gave us the gift of laughter - however unintentionally". That'll be his "gaffes", then, such as when he has scoffed at people for being in wheelchairs or anorexic.

    I never heard my parents or grandparents sneer at anyone's disability. Such disgustingness isn't something that used to be the norm but has gone out of fashion.
  • AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    Interesting — apparently Labour's campaign organiser is doing an interview at 1am, just 3 hours after the polls close. Seems a bit early.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 72,158
    AndyJS said:

    Interesting — apparently Labour's campaign organiser is doing an interview at 1am, just 3 hours after the polls close. Seems a bit early.

    For the locals or General?
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,830
    kyf_100 said:

    Cyan said:

    SeanT said:

    Cyan said:

    Sandpit said:

    SeanT said:

    I've just realised how much we are going to miss Her Majesty and the Duke of E, when they are really gone.

    The Queen has basically been around - a source of stability and reassurance in a changing world - for as long as any one alive can remember. Say "The Queen" in most countries, and people think of her. She is one of the most famous people on the planet. She is the national mother.

    I expect major league grief when she goes. It will be quite a rupture. Even Republicans might get a bit wobbly-chinned.

    The most amazing fact to come out of today's Royal story - the Queen and the DoE will celebrate their seventieth wedding anniversary later this year. Seventieth.
    In other news, parents of triplets born earlier today saluted the wise and benevolent rule of comrade Enver Hoxha.
    Pff!

    The Queen embodies so many of our memories, just from having been around so long. When I was born she had already been on the throne a decade, and I'm 53!

    She's always been there. On the stamps and coins, a reassuring presence, a precious continuity. A link with the past. And she has done her job with total dignity, lots of hard work, and a sense of real duty. You may despise monarchy, as an institution, but it is very hard to despise Elizabeth the Second as a person.
    I think it was Peregrine Worsthorne who told the story that when he accompanied her to art galleries, she would point at paintings and say "That's mine... That's mine..." When a guest came to stay with her with their poodle, the "queen's" terribly trained and appallingly badly managed corgis fought with the dog and killed it. She was the owner, so that was her fault. But she flew into a rage at the blood on her carpet and told the guest to get out. She's a hard bitch. There is no reason to think she doesn't have a laugh with her vile far-right husband after he gets caught sneering at the disabled, the unemployed, or the dark-skinned. It's been her choice to remain the monarch. She's a human being even if her face is on the currency, and she could have chosen otherwise. It was her choice not to intervene to save the lives of Derek Bentley, Michael X, and many others. She has chosen to remain the "figurehead" (although she's much more than that) and the face representing the state while it has engaged in horrendous slaughter in countries such as Iraq. If she "didn't understand", she shouldn't have signed the papers. No way should she be let off the hook. Get her in the dock at the Hague alongside Tony Blair.

    You are Chi Onwurah and I claim my ten pounds!
    Chi Onwurah was a bit tone deaf but hadn't been offensive though.
  • AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    ydoethur said:

    AndyJS said:

    Interesting — apparently Labour's campaign organiser is doing an interview at 1am, just 3 hours after the polls close. Seems a bit early.

    For the locals or General?
    Locals, I understand.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 52,856
    AndyJS said:

    Interesting — apparently Labour's campaign organiser is doing an interview at 1am, just 3 hours after the polls close. Seems a bit early.

    Are they planning to dump on Corbyn?
  • justin124justin124 Posts: 11,527

    Voting Green tonight in a straight green v labour fist fight in Clive Lewis territory

    But the Tories have a candidate in every ward in Norwich South!
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,830
    edited May 2017
    Cyan said:

    kle4 said:

    Cyan said:

    SeanT said:

    Cyan said:

    Sandpit said:

    SeanT said:

    I've just realised how much we are going to miss Her Majesty and the Duke of E, when they are really gone.

    The Queen has basically been around - a source of stability and reassurance in a changing world - for as long as any one alive can remember. Say "The Queen" in most countries, and people think of her. She is one of the most famous people on the planet. She is the national mother.

    I expect major league grief when she goes. It will be quite a rupture. Even Republicans might get a bit wobbly-chinned.

    The most amazing fact to come out of today's Royal story - the Queen and the DoE will celebrate their seventieth wedding anniversary later this year. Seventieth.
    In other news, parents of triplets born earlier today saluted the wise and benevolent rule of comrade Enver Hoxha.
    Pff!

    The Queen embodies so many of our memories, just from having been around so long. When I was born she had already been on the throne a decade, and I'm 53!

    She's always been there. On the stamps and coins, a reassuring presence, a precious continuity. A link with the past. And she has done her job with total dignity, lots of hard work, and a sense of real duty. You may despise monarchy, as an institution, but it is very hard to despise Elizabeth the Second as a person.
    She's a hard bitch. There is no reason to think she doesn't have a laugh with her vile far-right husband
    Except for how I have never seen an account, even from republicans, which made such an accusation, so it cannot be a common one. I've seen her accused of being cold, boring, even dim (because this is a free country and people are able to do so), but not that. So there's plenty of reason to not think that.

    You don't have to like the institution, or her, but if she were even half, even quarter as bad as you say, her personal popularity and the institution's popularity would not be as high as it is.
    The media is incredibly fawning towards the monarch.

    .
    That's such a cop out. It's a free country, we get to hear about negative stuff, and we don't have to consume positive stuff if we don't want, and indeed plenty of people happen to still be republicans. That attitude is tantamount to suggesting the public are brainwashed, incapable of understanding.

    The media fawns about a lot of things, it doesn't make me like everything they fawn over.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 72,158
    AndyJS said:

    ydoethur said:

    AndyJS said:

    Interesting — apparently Labour's campaign organiser is doing an interview at 1am, just 3 hours after the polls close. Seems a bit early.

    For the locals or General?
    Locals, I understand.
    Maybe that's when they're expecting projections for Manchester or Liverpool?

    Or maybe they're just very dim and don't realise it's counted the following day?

    Or perhaps that's when they'll break the news of Corbyn's departure?
  • AnneJGPAnneJGP Posts: 3,145
    kle4 said:

    Cyan said:

    SeanT said:

    Cyan said:

    Sandpit said:

    SeanT said:

    I've just realised how much we are going to miss Her Majesty and the Duke of E, when they are really gone.

    The Queen has basically been around - a source of stability and reassurance in a changing world - for as long as any one alive can remember. Say "The Queen" in most countries, and people think of her. She is one of the most famous people on the planet. She is the national mother.

    I expect major league grief when she goes. It will be quite a rupture. Even Republicans might get a bit wobbly-chinned.

    The most amazing fact to come out of today's Royal story - the Queen and the DoE will celebrate their seventieth wedding anniversary later this year. Seventieth.
    In other news, parents of triplets born earlier today saluted the wise and benevolent rule of comrade Enver Hoxha.
    Pff!

    The Queen embodies so many of our memories, just from having been around so long. When I was born she had already been on the throne a decade, and I'm 53!

    She's always been there. On the stamps and coins, a reassuring presence, a precious continuity. A link with the past. And she has done her job with total dignity, lots of hard work, and a sense of real duty. You may despise monarchy, as an institution, but it is very hard to despise Elizabeth the Second as a person.
    She's a hard bitch. There is no reason to think she doesn't have a laugh with her vile far-right husband
    Except for how I have never seen an account, even from republicans, which made such an accusation, so it cannot be a common one. I've seen her accused of being cold, boring, even dim (because this is a free country and people are able to do so), but not that. So there's plenty of reason to not think that.

    You don't have to like the institution, or her, but if she were even half, even quarter as bad as you say, her personal popularity and the institution's popularity would not be as high as it is.
    A hear-say anecdote, no reason to doubt the person who told me.

    An acquaintance worked in the catering side of a business which HM visited as part of the latest Jubilee engagements. She's a supervisor. The supervisors were allocated to serve the chauffeurs & other lowly bods in HM's entourage. The reason was that the supervisors could be trusted to give these non-VIPs excellent service whereas the junior staff might have slacked with disappointment at missing the VIP event.

    It is, apparently, well known that HM always asks her chauffeurs & other staff whether they have been looked after well.

    Good night, everyone.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 61,253
    We really need HMQ to survive until 2022.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 61,253
    Australia is a goner as soon as Charlie Boy takes the throne. Possibly Jamaica too.
  • AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340
    I wouldn't call myself a monarchist but I'm a huge admirer of the Queen. After her hopefully still-long-postponed death there will be a dawning realisation that she was one of the greatest Britons of our age. She essentially created her own highly demanding job description and then lived up to it for her entire adult life.
  • Ishmael_ZIshmael_Z Posts: 8,981
    If you have a *lot* of time on your hands, google "Queen corgi attack". It's bloody mayhem: Anne's bull terrier has despatched a corgi, the Corgis have had a go at Beatrice's Norfolk terrier, The Queen Mother's dog led a corgi attack on a dorgi. The moral: if you want a dog, buy one full-size one instead of packs of yappy little feckers.

    But google knows notheeeng of the mysterious case of the poodle which did not bleed on the carpet.
  • SimonStClareSimonStClare Posts: 7,976

    AndyJS said:

    Interesting — apparently Labour's campaign organiser is doing an interview at 1am, just 3 hours after the polls close. Seems a bit early.

    Are they planning to dump on Corbyn?
    Labour will have a much clearer picture of how the locals are looking, this will be an exercise in expectation management for tomorrow’s papers or a funeral wake.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,830

    I wouldn't call myself a monarchist but I'm a huge admirer of the Queen. After her hopefully still-long-postponed death there will be a dawning realisation that she was one of the greatest Britons of our age. She essentially created her own highly demanding job description and then lived up to it for her entire adult life.

    At the very least she could teach many people a thing or two about discipline!
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,830

    Australia is a goner as soon as Charlie Boy takes the throne. Possibly Jamaica too.

    Jamaica's had politician's running it who've wanted to go to an elected Head of State for years, hasn't it? I don't understand the hold up, even if the change required a referendum.
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 37,728
    Cyan said:

    kle4 said:

    Cyan said:

    SeanT said:

    Cyan said:

    Sandpit said:

    SeanT said:

    I've just realised how much we are going to miss Her Majesty and the Duke of E, when they are really gone.

    The Queen has basically been around - a source of stability and reassurance in a changing world - for as long as any one alive can remember. Say "The Queen" in most countries, and people think of her. She is one of the most famous people on the planet. She is the national mother.

    I expect major league grief when she goes. It will be quite a rupture. Even Republicans might get a bit wobbly-chinned.

    The most amazing fact to come out of today's Royal story - the Queen and the DoE will celebrate their seventieth wedding anniversary later this year. Seventieth.
    In other news, parents of triplets born earlier today saluted the wise and benevolent rule of comrade Enver Hoxha.

    She's always been there. On the stamps and coins, a reassuring presence, a precious continuity. A link with the past. And she has done her job with total dignity, lots of hard work, and a sense of real duty. You may despise monarchy, as an institution, but it is very hard to despise Elizabeth the Second as a person.
    She's a hard bitch. There is no reason to think she doesn't have a laugh with her vile far-right husband
    Except for how I have never seen an account, even from republicans, which made such an accusation, so it cannot be a common one. I've seen her accused of being cold, boring, even dim (because this is a free country and people are able to do so), but not that. So there's plenty of reason to not think that.

    You don't have to like the institution, or her, but if she were even half, even quarter as bad as you say, her personal popularity and the institution's popularity would not be as high as it is.
    The media is incredibly fawning towards the monarch.

    Even with Prince Philip, they still write things like this, in the Independent: "Prince Philip: The Royal who made the nation laugh, though more at him than with him. A man so heroically out of touch with modern sensibilities, he gave us the gift of laughter - however unintentionally". That'll be his "gaffes", then, such as when he has scoffed at people for being in wheelchairs or anorexic.

    I never heard my parents or grandparents sneer at anyone's disability. Such disgustingness isn't something that used to be the norm but has gone out of fashion.
    I've always liked the Duke of Edinburgh's humour. He's like my father in law.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 72,158
    Ishmael_Z said:

    If you have a *lot* of time on your hands, google "Queen corgi attack". It's bloody mayhem: Anne's bull terrier has despatched a corgi, the Corgis have had a go at Beatrice's Norfolk terrier, The Queen Mother's dog led a corgi attack on a dorgi. The moral: if you want a dog, buy one full-size one instead of packs of yappy little feckers.

    But google knows notheeeng of the mysterious case of the poodle which did not bleed on the carpet.

    Or indeed of the Peregrine Worsthorne anecdote, which is interesting as Worsthorne does I believe make a hobby out of telling offensive anecdotes to get a reaction.
  • AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395

    AndyJS said:

    Interesting — apparently Labour's campaign organiser is doing an interview at 1am, just 3 hours after the polls close. Seems a bit early.

    Are they planning to dump on Corbyn?
    I have no idea.
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 37,728
    dr_spyn said:
    She's about to be charged with bigamy.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 72,158
    On topic, what does a good night for Labour look like? I suppose they will exceed expectations just by winning Birmingham, but as realistically that should be an easy target that's only relatively successful compared to say, Copeland. Winning all the metro mayors plus a net gain of 100 seats should surely be the minimum to be considered a success? Given where we are in the electoral cycle that sets the bar very low.

    Conversely, is losing Middlesborough or Bristol a bad night, or does Manchester have to go as well?
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 72,158
    Sean_F said:

    dr_spyn said:
    She's about to be charged with bigamy.
    Old Gloucestershire joke:

    What is the penalty of bigamy?

    Two mothers in law.
  • ab195ab195 Posts: 477

    BigRich said:

    @MTimT What do you think of the GOP's healthcare plan? As well as their belief that healthcare should be a free-market thing?

    I don't get their thinking at all.

    Calling the Trump/Republican plans for Healthcare 'free market' is like calling a Pork Pie Vegetarian food because it has pasty round the out side!

    The Republicans have got confused between being Pro-Market and Pro-Business, to be fair most politicians end up being Pro-special interest of some sort.

    I passionately believe the that the a more free market approach would provide better, perhaps much better healthcare and health outcomes for more people and lower cost, to them and the taxpayer. I may be wrong, I know that, you may disagree with me, and I would l like to hear your reasons for doing so. But please, Please don't pretend that US healthcare is particular free market, its not the Canadian system for instance is much more free market, and the Singaporean system even more so.
    So you don't like it either then!

    Re Candian system being more free-market than America, a lot of American Conservatives on Twitter seem to see it as socialist.

    I guess in regards to free market, I'm used to NHS, and the security of not worrying about access to healthcare because the state provides it. I see a free market system has bringing uncertainty in regards to whether you will be able to get treatment.
    Not necessarily. You can guarantee access to healthcare, but use a free market model to allocate it (by having providers "bid" to provide healthcare but the state or a state entity guarantee to pay for all people).

    Personally, off the back of seeing the system from the inside, I think it's best run centrally with military discipline and even coverage; but I understand the free market argument.
  • BigRichBigRich Posts: 3,492

    BigRich said:

    @MTimT What do you think of the GOP's healthcare plan? As well as their belief that healthcare should be a free-market thing?

    I don't get their thinking at all.

    Calling the Trump/Republican plans for Healthcare 'free market' is like calling a Pork Pie Vegetarian food because it has pasty round the out side!

    The Republicans have got confused between being Pro-Market and Pro-Business, to be fair most politicians end up being Pro-special interest of some sort.

    I passionately believe the that the a more free market approach would provide better, perhaps much better healthcare and health outcomes for more people and lower cost, to them and the taxpayer. I may be wrong, I know that, you may disagree with me, and I would l like to hear your reasons for doing so. But please, Please don't pretend that US healthcare is particular free market, its not the Canadian system for instance is much more free market, and the Singaporean system even more so.
    So you don't like it either then!

    Re Candian system being more free-market than America, a lot of American Conservatives on Twitter seem to see it as socialist.

    I guess in regards to free market, I'm used to NHS, and the security of not worrying about access to healthcare because the state provides it. I see a free market system has bringing uncertainty in regards to whether you will be able to get treatment.
    There are probably bits in it that are good and bit that are bad, I haven't read it cover to cover, But my impression is its just another version of crony capitalism, and what's left of the freedom to chose will be diminished even more.

    There are lots of ways of defining 'More Free Market' Most credible ones IMO place Canada's system as much more free market than the US system. As a general rule people on Twitter are not always the best informed with American conservatives this is especially the case, there is a strong nationalist tendency, that is so determent to say 'we are the best!!!' That it will influence there judgment.

    And Yes when we have a system, the NHS, that seems OK in many respects, and has saved my life on one Occasion (appendicitis) it can seem mean to criticise and scary to jump to the unknown. But having seen the Dutch system up close and personal, I can assure you that is possible to have a much better system than we do now, with just a bit more market forces at play.
  • SimonStClareSimonStClare Posts: 7,976
    Sean_F said:

    dr_spyn said:
    She's about to be charged with bigamy.
    Wise move in that case, that’s a little too progressive for Bolton....
  • EastwingerEastwinger Posts: 356
    justin124 said:

    Voting Green tonight in a straight green v labour fist fight in Clive Lewis territory

    But the Tories have a candidate in every ward in Norwich South!
    In Norwich the anti Labour vote in Council elections is Green. I've just done the same here in Heigham Ward.
  • DisraeliDisraeli Posts: 1,106
    AndyJS said:

    Interesting — apparently Labour's campaign organiser is doing an interview at 1am, just 3 hours after the polls close. Seems a bit early.

    "I have just received the figures from Diane Abbot. She reports that in both of the three councils that she looked we were ahead in four. In the other 6 we were neck-and-neck. In the ten councils where we hope to gain seats we are ahead in five, behind in seven and even in twelve."
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 54,216
    As someone who has regrettably had to work for a living today did the threatened Scottish poll materialise? If so does anyone have a link?
  • AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    edited May 2017

    Australia is a goner as soon as Charlie Boy takes the throne. Possibly Jamaica too.

    Just because Charles has a slightly odd facial appearance? Seems a bit harsh.
  • Richard_TyndallRichard_Tyndall Posts: 32,726

    BigRich said:

    @MTimT What do you think of the GOP's healthcare plan? As well as their belief that healthcare should be a free-market thing?

    I don't get their thinking at all.

    Calling the Trump/Republican plans for Healthcare 'free market' is like calling a Pork Pie Vegetarian food because it has pasty round the out side!

    The Republicans have got confused between being Pro-Market and Pro-Business, to be fair most politicians end up being Pro-special interest of some sort.

    I passionately believe the that the a more free market approach would provide better, perhaps much better healthcare and health outcomes for more people and lower cost, to them and the taxpayer. I may be wrong, I know that, you may disagree with me, and I would l like to hear your reasons for doing so. But please, Please don't pretend that US healthcare is particular free market, its not the Canadian system for instance is much more free market, and the Singaporean system even more so.
    So you don't like it either then!

    Re Candian system being more free-market than America, a lot of American Conservatives on Twitter seem to see it as socialist.

    I guess in regards to free market, I'm used to NHS, and the security of not worrying about access to healthcare because the state provides it. I see a free market system has bringing uncertainty in regards to whether you will be able to get treatment.
    There is no contradiction between 'free at the point of delivery' and 'free market'. Most European countries have extensive private provision in their health care systems whilst still maintaining a free at the point of delivery system. And indeed most of those systems are considerably better than the NHS at keeping people alive and keeping them healthy.
  • ThreeQuidderThreeQuidder Posts: 6,133
    Cyan said:

    SeanT said:

    Cyan said:

    Sandpit said:

    SeanT said:

    I've just realised how much we are going to miss Her Majesty and the Duke of E, when they are really gone.

    The Queen has basically been around - a source of stability and reassurance in a changing world - for as long as any one alive can remember. Say "The Queen" in most countries, and people think of her. She is one of the most famous people on the planet. She is the national mother.

    I expect major league grief when she goes. It will be quite a rupture. Even Republicans might get a bit wobbly-chinned.

    The most amazing fact to come out of today's Royal story - the Queen and the DoE will celebrate their seventieth wedding anniversary later this year. Seventieth.
    In other news, parents of triplets born earlier today saluted the wise and benevolent rule of comrade Enver Hoxha.
    Pff!

    The Queen embodies so many of our memories, just from having been around so long. When I was born she had already been on the throne a decade, and I'm 53!

    She's always been there. On the stamps and coins, a reassuring presence, a precious continuity. A link with the past. And she has done her job with total dignity, lots of hard work, and a sense of real duty. You may despise monarchy, as an institution, but it is very hard to despise Elizabeth the Second as a person.
    I think it was Peregrine Worsthorne who told the story that when he accompanied her to art galleries, she would point at paintings and say "That's mine... That's mine..." When a guest came to stay with her with their poodle, the "queen's" terribly trained and appallingly badly managed corgis fought with the dog and killed it. She was the owner, so that was her fault. But she flew into a rage at the blood on her carpet and told the guest to get out. She's a hard bitch. There is no reason to think she doesn't have a laugh with her vile far-right husband after he gets caught sneering at the disabled, the unemployed, or the dark-skinned. It's been her choice to remain the monarch. She's a human being even if her face is on the currency, and she could have chosen otherwise. It was her choice not to intervene to save the lives of Derek Bentley, Michael X, and many others. She has chosen to remain the "figurehead" (although she's much more than that) and the face representing the state while it has engaged in horrendous slaughter in countries such as Iraq. If she "didn't understand", she shouldn't have signed the papers. No way should she be let off the hook. Get her in the dock at the Hague alongside Tony Blair.

    Wow, you've descended quickly from merely talking up your book to the vilest and most despicable postings we've seen here in a long time.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,830
    ydoethur said:

    On topic, what does a good night for Labour look like? I suppose they will exceed expectations just by winning Birmingham, but as realistically that should be an easy target that's only relatively successful compared to say, Copeland. Winning all the metro mayors plus a net gain of 100 seats should surely be the minimum to be considered a success? Given where we are in the electoral cycle that sets the bar very low.

    Conversely, is losing Middlesborough or Bristol a bad night, or does Manchester have to go as well?

    A genuine success should be making net gains and winning almost all the mayoral races I think. But given the expectations that have been trailed, winning the West Midlands and the gimme races, and holding firm with just a few net losses may be spun as a good night - like 2016 it might have been enough to save Corbyn, were the GE not around the corner to land the final blow.

    Bad night definitely involves losing West Midlands and Teeside, if Manchester goes too it has to be a terrible night I'd think.
  • foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548

    BigRich said:

    @MTimT What do you think of the GOP's healthcare plan? As well as their belief that healthcare should be a free-market thing?

    I don't get their thinking at all.

    Calling the Trump/Republican plans for Healthcare 'free market' is like calling a Pork Pie Vegetarian food because it has pasty round the out side!

    The Republicans have got confused between being Pro-Market and Pro-Business, to be fair most politicians end up being Pro-special interest of some sort.

    I passionately believe the that the a more free market approach would provide better, perhaps much better healthcare and health outcomes for more people and lower cost, to them and the taxpayer. I may be wrong, I know that, you may disagree with me, and I would l like to hear your reasons for doing so. But please, Please don't pretend that US healthcare is particular free market, its not the Canadian system for instance is much more free market, and the Singaporean system even more so.
    So you don't like it either then!

    Re Candian system being more free-market than America, a lot of American Conservatives on Twitter seem to see it as socialist.

    I guess in regards to free market, I'm used to NHS, and the security of not worrying about access to healthcare because the state provides it. I see a free market system has bringing uncertainty in regards to whether you will be able to get treatment.
    There is no contradiction between 'free at the point of delivery' and 'free market'. Most European countries have extensive private provision in their health care systems whilst still maintaining a free at the point of delivery system. And indeed most of those systems are considerably better than the NHS at keeping people alive and keeping them healthy.
    Yep, there is much that we should copy and emulate that is done in Europe.

    Reasonably busy at Leics polling station this evening for a locals.
  • OmniumOmnium Posts: 11,039
    edited May 2017
    ydoethur said:

    On topic, what does a good night for Labour look like? I suppose they will exceed expectations just by winning Birmingham, but as realistically that should be an easy target that's only relatively successful compared to say, Copeland. Winning all the metro mayors plus a net gain of 100 seats should surely be the minimum to be considered a success? Given where we are in the electoral cycle that sets the bar very low.

    Conversely, is losing Middlesborough or Bristol a bad night, or does Manchester have to go as well?

    Well gains.

    A single seat somewhere as a start. A little cluster even better. A council would be great.

    Edit: Not losing in Manchester
  • justin124justin124 Posts: 11,527

    justin124 said:

    Voting Green tonight in a straight green v labour fist fight in Clive Lewis territory

    But the Tories have a candidate in every ward in Norwich South!
    In Norwich the anti Labour vote in Council elections is Green. I've just done the same here in Heigham Ward.
    I am in Norwich myself and what you say is not entirely correct. Bowthorpe and Catton Grove wards are Tory v Labour contests - although the latter is in Norwich North. There is no longer a Heigham ward - I assume you are referring to Wensum. Many here view the Greens as to the left of Labour and quite a few Tories in marginal wards do vote Labour on a tactical basis.
  • DisraeliDisraeli Posts: 1,106



    Yep, there is much that we should copy and emulate that is done in Europe.

    But that would be cherry-picking, surely? :wink:
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    @MrHarryCole: Professor Brian Cox has said he "might be forced" into politics as the country needs a "visionary leader" ... run. Please. Do it. Please run

    @LadPolitics: @MrHarryCole 100/1 to be PM before 2030
  • Richard_TyndallRichard_Tyndall Posts: 32,726
    edited May 2017

    BigRich said:

    @MTimT What do you think of the GOP's healthcare plan? As well as their belief that healthcare should be a free-market thing?

    I don't get their thinking at all.

    Calling the Trump/Republican plans for Healthcare 'free market' is like calling a Pork Pie Vegetarian food because it has pasty round the out side!

    The Republicans have got confused between being Pro-Market and Pro-Business, to be fair most politicians end up being Pro-special interest of some sort.

    I passionately believe the that the a more free market approach would provide better, perhaps much better healthcare and health outcomes for more people and lower cost, to them and the taxpayer. I may be wrong, I know that, you may disagree with me, and I would l like to hear your reasons for doing so. But please, Please don't pretend that US healthcare is particular free market, its not the Canadian system for instance is much more free market, and the Singaporean system even more so.
    So you don't like it either then!

    Re Candian system being more free-market than America, a lot of American Conservatives on Twitter seem to see it as socialist.

    I guess in regards to free market, I'm used to NHS, and the security of not worrying about access to healthcare because the state provides it. I see a free market system has bringing uncertainty in regards to whether you will be able to get treatment.
    There is no contradiction between 'free at the point of delivery' and 'free market'. Most European countries have extensive private provision in their health care systems whilst still maintaining a free at the point of delivery system. And indeed most of those systems are considerably better than the NHS at keeping people alive and keeping them healthy.
    Yep, there is much that we should copy and emulate that is done in Europe.

    Reasonably busy at Leics polling station this evening for a locals.
    Agree entirely. Love Europe, hate the EU. :wink:
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,830
    Scott_P said:

    @MrHarryCole: Professor Brian Cox has said he "might be forced" into politics as the country needs a "visionary leader" ... run. Please. Do it. Please run

    He's a fairly likable guy, maybe he'd be fine.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 52,856

    BigRich said:

    @MTimT What do you think of the GOP's healthcare plan? As well as their belief that healthcare should be a free-market thing?

    I don't get their thinking at all.

    Calling the Trump/Republican plans for Healthcare 'free market' is like calling a Pork Pie Vegetarian food because it has pasty round the out side!

    The Republicans have got confused between being Pro-Market and Pro-Business, to be fair most politicians end up being Pro-special interest of some sort.

    I passionately believe the that the a more free market approach would provide better, perhaps much better healthcare and health outcomes for more people and lower cost, to them and the taxpayer. I may be wrong, I know that, you may disagree with me, and I would l like to hear your reasons for doing so. But please, Please don't pretend that US healthcare is particular free market, its not the Canadian system for instance is much more free market, and the Singaporean system even more so.
    So you don't like it either then!

    Re Candian system being more free-market than America, a lot of American Conservatives on Twitter seem to see it as socialist.

    I guess in regards to free market, I'm used to NHS, and the security of not worrying about access to healthcare because the state provides it. I see a free market system has bringing uncertainty in regards to whether you will be able to get treatment.
    There is no contradiction between 'free at the point of delivery' and 'free market'. Most European countries have extensive private provision in their health care systems whilst still maintaining a free at the point of delivery system. And indeed most of those systems are considerably better than the NHS at keeping people alive and keeping them healthy.
    Yep, there is much that we should copy and emulate that is done in Europe.

    Reasonably busy at Leics polling station this evening for a locals.
    Agree entirely. Love Europe, hate the EU. :wink:
    In theory is there any form of European political confederation that you would support?
  • foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548
    kle4 said:

    Scott_P said:

    @MrHarryCole: Professor Brian Cox has said he "might be forced" into politics as the country needs a "visionary leader" ... run. Please. Do it. Please run

    He's a fairly likable guy, maybe he'd be fine.
    Things can only get better...

    https://g.co/kgs/O5WtnG
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826

    BigRich said:

    @MTimT What do you think of the GOP's healthcare plan? As well as their belief that healthcare should be a free-market thing?

    I don't get their thinking at all.

    Calling the Trump/Republican plans for Healthcare 'free market' is like calling a Pork Pie Vegetarian food because it has pasty round the out side!

    The Republicans have got confused between being Pro-Market and Pro-Business, to be fair most politicians end up being Pro-special interest of some sort.

    I passionately believe the that the a more free market approach would provide better, perhaps much better healthcare and health outcomes for more people and lower cost, to them and the taxpayer. I may be wrong, I know that, you may disagree with me, and I would l like to hear your reasons for doing so. But please, Please don't pretend that US healthcare is particular free market, its not the Canadian system for instance is much more free market, and the Singaporean system even more so.
    So you don't like it either then!

    Re Candian system being more free-market than America, a lot of American Conservatives on Twitter seem to see it as socialist.

    I guess in regards to free market, I'm used to NHS, and the security of not worrying about access to healthcare because the state provides it. I see a free market system has bringing uncertainty in regards to whether you will be able to get treatment.
    There is no contradiction between 'free at the point of delivery' and 'free market'. Most European countries have extensive private provision in their health care systems whilst still maintaining a free at the point of delivery system. And indeed most of those systems are considerably better than the NHS at keeping people alive and keeping them healthy.
    Yep, there is much that we should copy and emulate that is done in Europe.

    Reasonably busy at Leics polling station this evening for a locals.
    Agree entirely. Love Europe, hate the EU. :wink:
    In theory is there any form of European political confederation that you would support?
    A United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland?
  • EastwingerEastwinger Posts: 356
    justin124 said:

    justin124 said:

    Voting Green tonight in a straight green v labour fist fight in Clive Lewis territory

    But the Tories have a candidate in every ward in Norwich South!
    In Norwich the anti Labour vote in Council elections is Green. I've just done the same here in Heigham Ward.
    I am in Norwich myself and what you say is not entirely correct. Bowthorpe and Catton Grove wards are Tory v Labour contests - although the latter is in Norwich North. There is no longer a Heigham ward - I assume you are referring to Wensum. Many here view the Greens as to the left of Labour and quite a few Tories in marginal wards do vote Labour on a tactical basis.
    Sorry, haven't got used to the name change, I used to be in Mancroft. Eaton has returned Tories in the past but this has always been a lefty city. The Labour posters outside £700k houses in Park Lane and other Golden Triangle areas are a sight to behold.
  • bobajobPBbobajobPB Posts: 1,042
    Evening bowers, scrapers, forelock tuggers and cap doffers. You are all sycophantic cogs in the wheel of neofeudalism and barriers to enlightened meritocracy. Pip - congrats on your retirement. Now get an effing job, you lazy oaf!
  • bobajobPBbobajobPB Posts: 1,042
    Another 10 hour day. Any French polling?
  • danielmawbsdanielmawbs Posts: 96

    Betting tip- well good odds really rather than a tip. Andy street at 1.7 on bf exchange, 1.5 everywhere else.

    Declaration of interest (I'm offering these odds to balance my book)
  • Carolus_RexCarolus_Rex Posts: 1,414
    kle4 said:

    Scott_P said:

    @MrHarryCole: Professor Brian Cox has said he "might be forced" into politics as the country needs a "visionary leader" ... run. Please. Do it. Please run

    He's a fairly likable guy, maybe he'd be fine.
    Perhaps the Ugly Rumours could record his campaign song!
  • RobDRobD Posts: 60,145
    bobajobPB said:

    Another 10 hour day. Any French polling?

    Afraid Sean hasn't been around to tell us about his latest exploits.

    Oh, the election..... :p

    Looks like a couple of new ones 61/39 - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opinion_polling_for_the_French_presidential_election,_2017
  • OmniumOmnium Posts: 11,039

    justin124 said:

    Voting Green tonight in a straight green v labour fist fight in Clive Lewis territory

    But the Tories have a candidate in every ward in Norwich South!
    In Norwich the anti Labour vote in Council elections is Green. I've just done the same here in Heigham Ward.
    Norwich South is I think the most interesting seat in GE2017. They have a (in some ways) poor Labour MP, but they've not elected a Conservative since 1983, and that was because of a split vote, so it's back to 1970 really.

    This time round it really is within the Tories reach again in my view.
  • bobajobPBbobajobPB Posts: 1,042
    Any idea of Prof Cox's politics? Can he knife Corbyn with some sort of intergalactic super weapon??
  • BigRichBigRich Posts: 3,492

    BigRich said:

    @MTimT What do you think of the GOP's healthcare plan? As well as their belief that healthcare should be a free-market thing?

    I don't get their thinking at all.

    Calling the Trump/Republican plans for Healthcare 'free market' is like calling a Pork Pie Vegetarian food because it has pasty round the out side!

    The Republicans have got confused between being Pro-Market and Pro-Business, to be fair most politicians end up being Pro-special interest of some sort.

    I passionately believe the that the a more free market approach would provide better, perhaps much better healthcare and health outcomes for more people and lower cost, to them and the taxpayer. I may be wrong, I know that, you may disagree with me, and I would l like to hear your reasons for doing so. But please, Please don't pretend that US healthcare is particular free market, its not the Canadian system for instance is much more free market, and the Singaporean system even more so.
    So you don't like it either then!

    Re Candian system being more free-market than America, a lot of American Conservatives on Twitter seem to see it as socialist.

    I guess in regards to free market, I'm used to NHS, and the security of not worrying about access to healthcare because the state provides it. I see a free market system has bringing uncertainty in regards to whether you will be able to get treatment.
    There is no contradiction between 'free at the point of delivery' and 'free market'. Most European countries have extensive private provision in their health care systems whilst still maintaining a free at the point of delivery system. And indeed most of those systems are considerably better than the NHS at keeping people alive and keeping them healthy.

    We are blessed in this country to have one of, if not the best coast guards, in the form of the RNLI, which saves all sorts of people in all sorts of ways, There people are real heroes. and all done without a penny of money taken in tax. I may be naive and so on, but I ask, could the charity sector run the ambulance system?

    I think people would be slightly less incline to abuse the series by phoning about trivial things. the system would be run more efficiently. and I think that there are lots of people who would chose to give to it.
  • justin124justin124 Posts: 11,527
    I have just picked up a strange Labour leaflet that has been pushed through my door. The leaflet says 'It is very close' - which seems highly unlikely given that Labour has only lost the ward once in the last 40 years and that was in 2009 when the Greens won here. It has been comfortably Labour in recent years , and during this election I have only received leaflets from Labour and the LibDems - though the latter have no chance. No leaflets at all from the Tories , Greens or UKIP - and when I voted at 9am there was only a Labour teller.In other words , there is absolutely no evidence that the ward is being targetted - so why put out such misleading garbage? It is almost as bad as the LibDems and their false bar charts.
  • brokenwheelbrokenwheel Posts: 3,352
    edited May 2017
    bobajobPB said:

    Any idea of Prof Cox's politics? Can he knife Corbyn with some sort of intergalactic super weapon??

    Things can only get better.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,830
    bobajobPB said:

    Evening bowers, scrapers, forelock tuggers and cap doffers. You are all sycophantic cogs in the wheel of neofeudalism and barriers to enlightened meritocracy. oaf!

    I think Terry Pratchett (at least via Samuel Vimes) put it thus when it comes to monarchy and power generally - whoever designed human kind included a serious design flaw; a tendency to bend at the knees.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,830
    bobajobPB said:

    Any idea of Prof Cox's politics? Can he knife Corbyn with some sort of intergalactic super weapon??

    I think he's an arch remainer.
  • bobajobPBbobajobPB Posts: 1,042
    RobD said:

    bobajobPB said:

    Another 10 hour day. Any French polling?

    Afraid Sean hasn't been around to tell us about his latest exploits.

    Oh, the election..... :p

    Looks like a couple of new ones 61/39 - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opinion_polling_for_the_French_presidential_election,_2017
    Lol. And thanks.
  • Ishmael_ZIshmael_Z Posts: 8,981
    ydoethur said:

    Ishmael_Z said:

    If you have a *lot* of time on your hands, google "Queen corgi attack". It's bloody mayhem: Anne's bull terrier has despatched a corgi, the Corgis have had a go at Beatrice's Norfolk terrier, The Queen Mother's dog led a corgi attack on a dorgi. The moral: if you want a dog, buy one full-size one instead of packs of yappy little feckers.

    But google knows notheeeng of the mysterious case of the poodle which did not bleed on the carpet.

    Or indeed of the Peregrine Worsthorne anecdote, which is interesting as Worsthorne does I believe make a hobby out of telling offensive anecdotes to get a reaction.
    Even if true, it's completely non-damaging surely? They actually *are* her paintings, and the story only illustrates that she shares them with the public.
  • justin124justin124 Posts: 11,527
    edited May 2017

    justin124 said:

    justin124 said:

    Voting Green tonight in a straight green v labour fist fight in Clive Lewis territory

    But the Tories have a candidate in every ward in Norwich South!
    In Norwich the anti Labour vote in Council elections is Green. I've just done the same here in Heigham Ward.
    I am in Norwich myself and what you say is not entirely correct. Bowthorpe and Catton Grove wards are Tory v Labour contests - although the latter is in Norwich North. There is no longer a Heigham ward - I assume you are referring to Wensum. Many here view the Greens as to the left of Labour and quite a few Tories in marginal wards do vote Labour on a tactical basis.
    Sorry, haven't got used to the name change, I used to be in Mancroft. Eaton has returned Tories in the past but this has always been a lefty city. The Labour posters outside £700k houses in Park Lane and other Golden Triangle areas are a sight to behold.
    I hope the Greens see off Labour in Mancroft - the Labour candidate is quite appalling.Labour did win the ward last year, however.
    Did you know that Norwich was Tory controlled 1968 - 1970?
  • HaroldOHaroldO Posts: 1,185
    When people were on about Juncker being a drunk yesterday, I thought it was just bitterness...but I stumbled across this and realise people weren't kidding; https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XPgiI46FCDU
  • EastwingerEastwinger Posts: 356
    Omnium said:

    justin124 said:

    Voting Green tonight in a straight green v labour fist fight in Clive Lewis territory

    But the Tories have a candidate in every ward in Norwich South!
    In Norwich the anti Labour vote in Council elections is Green. I've just done the same here in Heigham Ward.
    Norwich South is I think the most interesting seat in GE2017. They have a (in some ways) poor Labour MP, but they've not elected a Conservative since 1983, and that was because of a split vote, so it's back to 1970 really.

    This time round it really is within the Tories reach again in my view.
    I expect Clive Lewis to win again in Norwich South. Chloe will win Norwich North with a comfortable majority.
  • logical_songlogical_song Posts: 9,944
    bobajobPB said:

    Any idea of Prof Cox's politics? Can he knife Corbyn with some sort of intergalactic super weapon??

    Don't know about that but we might get some evidence based policies.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 61,253
    SeanT said:

    Australia is a goner as soon as Charlie Boy takes the throne. Possibly Jamaica too.

    Really wouldn't be so sure. Look at NZ and the vote on the flag.

    I know Australia well. My younger daughter is Australian. There is a reaction against the "Asianisation" of the nation. And it is embodied by a tenacious attachment to their European, British ancestry, symbolised by the Crown.

    Don't get me wrong, most Aussies couldn't give much of a toss for Charles.

    But they quite like being overtly different to the Asian republics that surround them. And they are, moreover, one of the luckiest and richest countries on the planet. Why risk spoiling all that by randomly extracting one of the major components of this, the stability that monarchy provides?
    I hope you're right.

    The monarchy is a very important emotional and cultural link between the UK and the old dominions.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,830
    Scotland better not fail to follow through with the SCON surge after all this teasing - picture the PB Tory faces, all distraught.
  • BigRichBigRich Posts: 3,492

    BigRich said:

    @MTimT What do you think of the GOP's healthcare plan? As well as their belief that healthcare should be a free-market thing?

    I don't get their thinking at all.

    Calling the Trump/Republican plans for Healthcare 'free market' is like calling a Pork Pie Vegetarian food because it has pasty round the out side!

    The Republicans have got confused between being Pro-Market and Pro-Business, to be fair most politicians end up being Pro-special interest of some sort.

    I passionately believe the that the a more free market approach would provide better, perhaps much better healthcare and health outcomes for more people and lower cost, to them and the taxpayer. I may be wrong, I know that, you may disagree with me, and I would l like to hear your reasons for doing so. But please, Please don't pretend that US healthcare is particular free market, its not the Canadian system for instance is much more free market, and the Singaporean system even more so.
    So you don't like it either then!

    Re Candian system being more free-market than America, a lot of American Conservatives on Twitter seem to see it as socialist.

    I guess in regards to free market, I'm used to NHS, and the security of not worrying about access to healthcare because the state provides it. I see a free market system has bringing uncertainty in regards to whether you will be able to get treatment.
    There is no contradiction between 'free at the point of delivery' and 'free market'. Most European countries have extensive private provision in their health care systems whilst still maintaining a free at the point of delivery system. And indeed most of those systems are considerably better than the NHS at keeping people alive and keeping them healthy.
    Yep, there is much that we should copy and emulate that is done in Europe.

    Reasonably busy at Leics polling station this evening for a locals.
    Agree entirely. Love Europe, hate the EU. :wink:

    I like Dan Hanna's Quote.

    Its possible to Love football and hate FIFA, Just as it possible to Love Europe and hate the EU.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,830
    I quite like a John Rentoul's comment today.

    Opinion polls are the worst way of finding out what people think apart from any other
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,830
    West of England Mayor declaring first out of the mayor races. Will be interesting to see the Labour trend there - Corbyn is still pretty popular in Bristol at least, I hear.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 60,145
    kle4 said:

    I quite like a John Rentoul's comment today.

    Opinion polls are the worst way of finding out what people think apart from any other

    How about holding an election? :p
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 61,253
    Anyone have any clue on declaration times for tonight?
  • Scrapheap_as_wasScrapheap_as_was Posts: 10,069

    I wouldn't call myself a monarchist but I'm a huge admirer of the Queen. After her hopefully still-long-postponed death there will be a dawning realisation that she was one of the greatest Britons of our age. She essentially created her own highly demanding job description and then lived up to it for her entire adult life.

    Hear Hear.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,830
    RobD said:

    kle4 said:

    I quite like a John Rentoul's comment today.

    Opinion polls are the worst way of finding out what people think apart from any other

    How about holding an election? :p
    Touche.

    I'm not wholly sold on that way either, to be honest :)

    Another fun comment from Matt Singh

    Labour's problem isn't the voting system - it benefits hugely from FPTP - it's that it doesn't have enough votes
  • Carolus_RexCarolus_Rex Posts: 1,414
    kle4 said:

    bobajobPB said:

    Evening bowers, scrapers, forelock tuggers and cap doffers. You are all sycophantic cogs in the wheel of neofeudalism and barriers to enlightened meritocracy. oaf!

    I think Terry Pratchett (at least via Samuel Vimes) put it thus when it comes to monarchy and power generally - whoever designed human kind included a serious design flaw; a tendency to bend at the knees.
    Via Rincewind though he also said he preferred tradition to democracy, because that way, even the dead get to vote.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 50,289

    Anyone have any clue on declaration times for tonight?

    http://election.pressassociation.com/Declaration_times/all_2017_by_time.php
  • justin124justin124 Posts: 11,527

    Omnium said:

    justin124 said:

    Voting Green tonight in a straight green v labour fist fight in Clive Lewis territory

    But the Tories have a candidate in every ward in Norwich South!
    In Norwich the anti Labour vote in Council elections is Green. I've just done the same here in Heigham Ward.
    Norwich South is I think the most interesting seat in GE2017. They have a (in some ways) poor Labour MP, but they've not elected a Conservative since 1983, and that was because of a split vote, so it's back to 1970 really.

    This time round it really is within the Tories reach again in my view.
    I expect Clive Lewis to win again in Norwich South. Chloe will win Norwich North with a comfortable majority.
    As the polls currently stand, Norwich South has to be at risk for Labour. In 1983 Labour's John Garrett lost by 1700 votes in the context of a national Tory lead of 15%. Moreover, Labour only very narrowly won it back by 330 in 1987. Having said that , I get the impression that Lewis will benefit from tactical voting from Green supporters.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,830
    edited May 2017

    kle4 said:

    bobajobPB said:

    Evening bowers, scrapers, forelock tuggers and cap doffers. You are all sycophantic cogs in the wheel of neofeudalism and barriers to enlightened meritocracy. oaf!

    I think Terry Pratchett (at least via Samuel Vimes) put it thus when it comes to monarchy and power generally - whoever designed human kind included a serious design flaw; a tendency to bend at the knees.
    Via Rincewind though he also said he preferred tradition to democracy, because that way, even the dead get to vote.
    A million dead people cannot be wrong!

    RIP Sir Pterry.
This discussion has been closed.