Repeat a slogan a thousand times, and a journalist hears it a thousand times. But the average voter hears it once.
Important reminder, re: Theresa May and the endless repetition of "strong and stable": the minority of people who take a deep interest in politics find it anodyne and robotic, but most voters will hear it, perhaps not just the once, but just often enough for it to sink in.
We ought not to assume that things we may be tired of hearing come across as anything other than welcome and reassuring messages to the great mass of the people.
If Donald Trump demanded that US citizens living in Europe should be subject to US law rather than the law of the country in which they resided some people on this forum would be spitting feathers.
I had lunch with a Scotsman, he believes that independent Scotland will have no trouble in joining the EU, as the EU will compell England to continue the Barnett payments... I just nodded.
Was that his spelling of 'compell' or yours?
You're being petty tonight. I'm sure your continental pals will be falling over themselves to make good the huge Barrett shortfall, nae worries.
Ukip's 'rampant rabbi': Candidate in sex role-play scandal with woman he met on bondage site won't even shake female rivals' hands 'on religious grounds'
Which is perfectly correct. It can't. EU citizens in the UK will be subject to UK law and UK courts and no other. The reverse is also the case.
The writ of the EU and ECJ will stop at the Southern Irish border and the channel. It isn't either complicated or controversial.
Juncker's answer was that in that case there would be no will to negotiate any trade deal, and if the other states were left with the UK's bills, then the exit deal would have to go via every member state individually.
Ukip's 'rampant rabbi': Candidate in sex role-play scandal with woman he met on bondage site won't even shake female rivals' hands 'on religious grounds'
Well this is awkward, I consider Shneur a good friend.
You'll be fine. Just run if he gets a whip out...
Well he does have my mobile number.
Out of all the people in my contacts list, he was the last person I'd expect this from.
If you think I have probably have 30 or so gay friends on my contacts list, poor Tim Farron's going to be so confused.
Does he? i thought you didn't care for leavers much...
I don't care for the blood and soil leavers.
Most of my Leaver friends are economic liberals who thought Brexit would be easy.
I've known them long enough, plus, if Brexit does turn out to be the disaster I fear it will be (and Jeremy Cliffe's tweets confirm that), I'm going to need someone to gloat at.
'FWIW I think the EU are out of their depth here - they have never had to negotiate a position where they weren't holding the whip hand and it was obvious to all how that lay. Now they are facing a determined opponent. They are probably looking for a safe space.'
Problem is people don't know whether the contradictory statements from Junker are made when he's pissed or sober.
Probably easiest to work from assumption he is pissed up.
Which is perfectly correct. It can't. EU citizens in the UK will be subject to UK law and UK courts and no other. The reverse is also the case.
The writ of the EU and ECJ will stop at the Southern Irish border and the channel. It isn't either complicated or controversial.
Juncker's answer was that in that case there would be no will to negotiate any trade deal, and if the other states were left with the UK's bills, then the exit deal would have to go via every member state individually.
In which case there will not be a trade deal. In that case I can see the Republic of Ireland, the Flemmish part of Belgium as well as large parts of France and Germany being deeply upset about being both further out of pocket and reduced trade to make up for it. Junker really is an unhelpful tit, to both the EU and UK,
The most incredible - and stupid - comment was David Davis assertion that as we would be out of the ECJ nothing we committed to would be enforceable.
Sorry, once we are out of the EU the rule of the ECJ will cease. That is one of the things May has been consistent on. So if we have EU citizens here, their rights will be guaranteed by our laws and our courts. It isn't complicated.
Formally that might* be correct. But think of the implication of Davis' remark: we don't intend to negotiate in good faith. How can we get a good deal or be trusted on anything on that basis?
* That's Mrs May's intention, but it might not be immediate or total. We'll see.
I don't think that Davis comment, if that is indeed what he said, implies anything about the UK not negotiating in good faith. In fact it could be the exact opposite.
He could equally well just be making the point that legally, the EU cannot simply dictate the exit terms because post-exit the UK will no longer by subject to the jurisdiction of the ECJ. The terms of withdrawal therefore have to be negotiated.
Now that should just be a statement of the obvious, but if the EU start to throw their weight around by making unreasonable demands, it is a point that is worth making.
So his comments could be interpreted as "we're ready to negotiate in good faith, but you need to be ready to do likewise; if you are demanding that EU citizens in the UK should continue to be subject to EU laws, you are not acting in good faith".
Which is perfectly correct. It can't. EU citizens in the UK will be subject to UK law and UK courts and no other. The reverse is also the case.
The writ of the EU and ECJ will stop at the Southern Irish border and the channel. It isn't either complicated or controversial.
Juncker's answer was that in that case there would be no will to negotiate any trade deal, and if the other states were left with the UK's bills, then the exit deal would have to go via every member state individually.
You seem to have some extreme worship of Junckers et al. Sad really
Ukip's 'rampant rabbi': Candidate in sex role-play scandal with woman he met on bondage site won't even shake female rivals' hands 'on religious grounds'
Well this is awkward, I consider Shneur a good friend.
You'll be fine. Just run if he gets a whip out...
Well he does have my mobile number.
Out of all the people in my contacts list, he was the last person I'd expect this from.
If you think I have probably have 30 or so gay friends on my contacts list, poor Tim Farron's going to be so confused.
Does he? i thought you didn't care for leavers much...
I don't care for the blood and soil leavers.
Most of my Leaver friends are economic liberals who thought Brexit would be easy.
I've known them long enough, plus, if Brexit does turn out to be the disaster I fear it will be (and Jeremy Cliffe's tweets confirm that), I'm going to need someone to gloat at.
Who's Jeremy Cliffe and was he in all the private meetings on both sides?
Which is perfectly correct. It can't. EU citizens in the UK will be subject to UK law and UK courts and no other. The reverse is also the case.
The writ of the EU and ECJ will stop at the Southern Irish border and the channel. It isn't either complicated or controversial.
Juncker's answer was that in that case there would be no will to negotiate any trade deal, and if the other states were left with the UK's bills, then the exit deal would have to go via every member state individually.
You seem to have some extreme worship of Junckers et al. Sad really
If Donald Trump demanded that US citizens living in Europe should be subject to US law rather than the law of the country in which they resided some people on this forum would be spitting feathers.
Indeed. If the EU side are insistent on anything like this then the negotiations (or a large slice of the agenda, at any rate) would fall at the first hurdle.
If the EU thinks that it is entitled to demand that a non-member continue to apply whole chunks of its legislation to some of the people living in said non-member state, then it has a completely different (and rather bizarre) conception of how the law should function to the rest of the world.
Ukip's 'rampant rabbi': Candidate in sex role-play scandal with woman he met on bondage site won't even shake female rivals' hands 'on religious grounds'
Well this is awkward, I consider Shneur a good friend.
You'll be fine. Just run if he gets a whip out...
Well he does have my mobile number.
Out of all the people in my contacts list, he was the last person I'd expect this from.
If you think I have probably have 30 or so gay friends on my contacts list, poor Tim Farron's going to be so confused.
Does he? i thought you didn't care for leavers much...
I don't care for the blood and soil leavers.
Most of my Leaver friends are economic liberals who thought Brexit would be easy.
I've known them long enough, plus, if Brexit does turn out to be the disaster I fear it will be (and Jeremy Cliffe's tweets confirm that), I'm going to need someone to gloat at.
Who's Jeremy Cliffe and was he in all the private meetings on both sides?
Ukip's 'rampant rabbi': Candidate in sex role-play scandal with woman he met on bondage site won't even shake female rivals' hands 'on religious grounds'
Well this is awkward, I consider Shneur a good friend.
You'll be fine. Just run if he gets a whip out...
Well he does have my mobile number.
Out of all the people in my contacts list, he was the last person I'd expect this from.
If you think I have probably have 30 or so gay friends on my contacts list, poor Tim Farron's going to be so confused.
Does he? i thought you didn't care for leavers much...
I don't care for the blood and soil leavers.
Most of my Leaver friends are economic liberals who thought Brexit would be easy.
I've known them long enough, plus, if Brexit does turn out to be the disaster I fear it will be (and Jeremy Cliffe's tweets confirm that), I'm going to need someone to gloat at.
Who's Jeremy Cliffe and was he in all the private meetings on both sides?
Journo for the Economist.
Ah. In which case his tweets confirm he is a journalist for the Economist. No more.
Which is perfectly correct. It can't. EU citizens in the UK will be subject to UK law and UK courts and no other. The reverse is also the case.
The writ of the EU and ECJ will stop at the Southern Irish border and the channel. It isn't either complicated or controversial.
Juncker's answer was that in that case there would be no will to negotiate any trade deal, and if the other states were left with the UK's bills, then the exit deal would have to go via every member state individually.
You seem to have some extreme worship of Junckers et al. Sad really
I'm just translating what the article says.
No
Your whole being is obsessed with the EU and all your post are designed as if you were Junckers mouthpiece. The problem is that there are many who do not share your adulation of the EU
So the story goes, King Canute (or "Cnut") arrogantly thought that he could hold back the waves by his command. Juncker seems to be acting like King Cnut here - and is shocked that he meets resistance.
I always thought that Juncker was a bit of a Cnut.
Interesting panel base poll in Scotland - 18-21/04/17
In the UK and out of the EU - 48%
Independent and in the EU - 41%
Independent and out of the EU - 10%
Looks as if Scotland is very divided but surprised in the UK and out of the EU should top the poll
My only concern with that poll is that it contains essentially zero (maybe 1%, depends on rounding) for "in the UK, in the EU", which you would have thought has to be the view of a substantial minority of "No to Independence" voters, especially as that was one of the key messages/arguments from the "No to Independence" camp.
Me for example. I guess they reckoned the UK and EU option was closed down. The reasons for supporting both unions are essentially the same.
I think the three question format is somewhat leading and likely exaggerates support for independence overall. It would be better to break it into two questions. Do you support independence? If so, do you want to be in the EU or out of it?
Looks like 'The National' is collating the poll figures to say 51% support independence. Poor journalism
As Brexit will have occurred before Scotland declares independence, IndyScotland would be outside the EU. I suspect agreeing accession criteria would be swift as Scotland would be compliant, so the Indy Scots could vote on the package.
What is quite clear is that there is less support for Scotland rejoining the EU than Yes got in 2014 which is potentially fatal for the SNP longer term, especially with a plurality of Scots backing staying in the UK but leaving the EU
Ukip's 'rampant rabbi': Candidate in sex role-play scandal with woman he met on bondage site won't even shake female rivals' hands 'on religious grounds'
Well this is awkward, I consider Shneur a good friend.
You'll be fine. Just run if he gets a whip out...
Well he does have my mobile number.
Out of all the people in my contacts list, he was the last person I'd expect this from.
If you think I have probably have 30 or so gay friends on my contacts list, poor Tim Farron's going to be so confused.
Does he? i thought you didn't care for leavers much...
I don't care for the blood and soil leavers.
Most of my Leaver friends are economic liberals who thought Brexit would be easy.
I've known them long enough, plus, if Brexit does turn out to be the disaster I fear it will be (and Jeremy Cliffe's tweets confirm that), I'm going to need someone to gloat at.
Who's Jeremy Cliffe and was he in all the private meetings on both sides?
Journo for the Economist.
The Economist is the most desperately europhile of all major organs. It is embarrassing.
What is so very sad is that years ago it was crunchingly and correctly sceptic. It was witheringly vicious about the Lisbon Treaty/Constitution. If the Brits had followed its advice, then, we'd have voted down that piece of shit and we wouldn't be where we are, now. Brexit wouldn't even be a word.
Didn't the editor recently get the Legion d'Honneur too?
Ukip's 'rampant rabbi': Candidate in sex role-play scandal with woman he met on bondage site won't even shake female rivals' hands 'on religious grounds'
Well this is awkward, I consider Shneur a good friend.
You'll be fine. Just run if he gets a whip out...
Well he does have my mobile number.
Out of all the people in my contacts list, he was the last person I'd expect this from.
If you think I have probably have 30 or so gay friends on my contacts list, poor Tim Farron's going to be so confused.
Does he? i thought you didn't care for leavers much...
I don't care for the blood and soil leavers.
Most of my Leaver friends are economic liberals who thought Brexit would be easy.
I've known them long enough, plus, if Brexit does turn out to be the disaster I fear it will be (and Jeremy Cliffe's tweets confirm that), I'm going to need someone to gloat at.
Who's Jeremy Cliffe and was he in all the private meetings on both sides?
Journo for the Economist.
The Economist is the most desperately europhile of all major organs. It is embarrassing.
What is so very sad is that years ago it was crunchingly and correctly sceptic. It was witheringly vicious about the Lisbon Treaty/Constitution. If the Brits had followed its advice, then, we'd have voted down that piece of shit and we wouldn't be where we are, now. Brexit wouldn't even be a word.
Didn't the editor recently get the Legion d'Honneur too?
Ukip's 'rampant rabbi': Candidate in sex role-play scandal with woman he met on bondage site won't even shake female rivals' hands 'on religious grounds'
Ukip's 'rampant rabbi': Candidate in sex role-play scandal with woman he met on bondage site won't even shake female rivals' hands 'on religious grounds'
Well this is awkward, I consider Shneur a good friend.
You'll be fine. Just run if he gets a whip out...
Well he does have my mobile number.
Out of all the people in my contacts list, he was the last person I'd expect this from.
If you think I have probably have 30 or so gay friends on my contacts list, poor Tim Farron's going to be so confused.
Does he? i thought you didn't care for leavers much...
I don't care for the blood and soil leavers.
Most of my Leaver friends are economic liberals who thought Brexit would be easy.
I've known them long enough, plus, if Brexit does turn out to be the disaster I fear it will be (and Jeremy Cliffe's tweets confirm that), I'm going to need someone to gloat at.
Who's Jeremy Cliffe and was he in all the private meetings on both sides?
Journo for the Economist.
The Economist is the most desperately europhile of all major organs. It is embarrassing.
What is so very sad is that years ago it was crunchingly and correctly sceptic. It was witheringly vicious about the Lisbon Treaty/Constitution. If the Brits had followed its advice, then, we'd have voted down that piece of shit and we wouldn't be where we are, now. Brexit wouldn't even be a word.
Didn't the editor recently get the Legion d'Honneur too?
Ukip's 'rampant rabbi': Candidate in sex role-play scandal with woman he met on bondage site won't even shake female rivals' hands 'on religious grounds'
Well this is awkward, I consider Shneur a good friend.
You'll be fine. Just run if he gets a whip out...
Well he does have my mobile number.
Out of all the people in my contacts list, he was the last person I'd expect this from.
If you think I have probably have 30 or so gay friends on my contacts list, poor Tim Farron's going to be so confused.
Does he? i thought you didn't care for leavers much...
I don't care for the blood and soil leavers.
Most of my Leaver friends are economic liberals who thought Brexit would be easy.
I've known them long enough, plus, if Brexit does turn out to be the disaster I fear it will be (and Jeremy Cliffe's tweets confirm that), I'm going to need someone to gloat at.
Who's Jeremy Cliffe and was he in all the private meetings on both sides?
Journo for the Economist.
The Economist is the most desperately europhile of all major organs. It is embarrassing.
What is so very sad is that years ago it was crunchingly and correctly sceptic. It was witheringly vicious about the Lisbon Treaty/Constitution. If the Brits had followed its advice, then, we'd have voted down that piece of shit and we wouldn't be where we are, now. Brexit wouldn't even be a word.
Didn't the editor recently get the Legion d'Honneur too?
Wasn't that the FT
My mistake!
Hollande's mistake. Legion d'Honneur recipients are invariably despicable.
Ukip's 'rampant rabbi': Candidate in sex role-play scandal with woman he met on bondage site won't even shake female rivals' hands 'on religious grounds'
Well this is awkward, I consider Shneur a good friend.
You'll be fine. Just run if he gets a whip out...
Well he does have my mobile number.
Out of all the people in my contacts list, he was the last person I'd expect this from.
If you think I have probably have 30 or so gay friends on my contacts list, poor Tim Farron's going to be so confused.
Does he? i thought you didn't care for leavers much...
I don't care for the blood and soil leavers.
Most of my Leaver friends are economic liberals who thought Brexit would be easy.
I've known them long enough, plus, if Brexit does turn out to be the disaster I fear it will be (and Jeremy Cliffe's tweets confirm that), I'm going to need someone to gloat at.
Who's Jeremy Cliffe and was he in all the private meetings on both sides?
Journo for the Economist.
Ah. In which case his tweets confirm he is a journalist for the Economist. No more.
I've just read the whole Jeremy Cliffe thread on twitter and it has to be said that it looks like May has law on her side. She is also making it clear that we will not roll over. That's fine with me. Apart from that, it looks like more remoaner bed wetters assuming there can be nothing we have that they want which is clearly not the case. They want our trade, access to the city and rights for their citizens. Before the referendum I took the view (and still do) that we should at some point offer something like a £20 billion golden f*ckoff, but only to secure a FULL trade deal. It only becomes worthwhile once they realise they do need to talk rather than dictate. They are not there yet, not by a long way.
So the story goes, King Canute (or "Cnut") arrogantly thought that he could hold back the waves by his command. Juncker seems to be acting like King Cnut here - and is shocked that he meets resistance.
I always thought that Juncker was a bit of a Cnut.
Cnut was demonstrating the limits of his power, not trying to prove he could do something he could not. Junker on the other hand is the reverse.
Ukip's 'rampant rabbi': Candidate in sex role-play scandal with woman he met on bondage site won't even shake female rivals' hands 'on religious grounds'
Most of my Leaver friends are economic liberals who thought Brexit would be easy.
I've known them long enough, plus, if Brexit does turn out to be the disaster I fear it will be (and Jeremy Cliffe's tweets confirm that), I'm going to need someone to gloat at.
I also count myself amongst the more moderate wing of Brexit. I was actually concerned that this could be rather difficult, but I voted to go anyway because I didn't want the country to become either a part or a protectorate of a nascent superstate, and therefore felt we hadn't any choice. And I don't think that crowing over this situation, should it come to pass, is going to prove either constructive, or even particularly harmful to the more nationalistic wing of the cause. Quite the reverse.
If your gloat is going to consist of saying "See, I told you they were a bunch of mafioso running a protection racket and they'd try to kneecap us if we rejected them," then I would imagine that the available receptive audience will be smaller than that for the Tony Blair Comeback Tour. Just in case you didn't already know. That line of argument will be taken as vindication by the likes of Nigel Farage, and more than that a lot of more moderate folk are liable to agree with him.
All that the EU being (a) vindictive and (b) bonkers is going to do is make most of the British population blame them for everything that might go wrong as a consequence. Just look at the evidence from our own country. The Government bends over backwards to appease Scottish sentiment and hose it down with money and powers, and the SNP still polls 45%, mainly through grievance peddling. It's certainly not made itself hugely popular through being any bloody good at the actual business of governing. Now, imagine what would happen if Scotland voted to go independent and we responded by asking for, along with an enormous amount of cash, a demand that all the English people living in Scotland would have the right to continue living there under legislation made by Westminster and not the Scottish Parliament. There would be flag waving, pitchforks, burnings in effigy, and the UK Government delegation to Edinburgh being sent back homeward to think again. And quite right, too.
All that will most likely happen if talks founder because the EU is seen to make outrageous demands is that the bonds of friendship between the United Kingdom and the other EU members will fray or collapse, a whole new generation will come to despise the Germans, and also your personal favourite politician, one T May of Maidenhead, Berks, will become even more popular for telling them to get knotted. But I dare say you'll be enjoying gloating too much to care. Bully for you.
You are 100% correct. The ECJ does NOT have jurisdiction to handle a dispute over the Brexit bill. In fact, there is no Court that does - apparently the EU think they can use the ICJ at the Hague, but this is also incorrect unless the UK agreed to this jurisdiction (and why would they - there is no upside and the ICJ does not handle this type of dispute normally).
Davis is making the point that unless the UK agrees to pay the EU a divorce bill, they get nothing. Quite correct for him to point this out. If they want money, they need to deal.
The EU know this, which is why they are trying to bully the UK into agreeing the bill upfront. Fat chance.
The most incredible - and stupid - comment was David Davis assertion that as we would be out of the ECJ nothing we committed to would be enforceable.
Sorry, once we are out of the EU the rule of the ECJ will cease. That is one of the things May has been consistent on. So if we have EU citizens here, their rights will be guaranteed by our laws and our courts. It isn't complicated.
Formally that might* be correct. But think of the implication of Davis' remark: we don't intend to negotiate in good faith. How can we get a good deal or be trusted on anything on that basis?
* That's Mrs May's intention, but it might not be immediate or total. We'll see.
I don't think that Davis comment, if that is indeed what he said, implies anything about the UK not negotiating in good faith. In fact it could be the exact opposite.
He could equally well just be making the point that legally, the EU cannot simply dictate the exit terms because post-exit the UK will no longer by subject to the jurisdiction of the ECJ. The terms of withdrawal therefore have to be negotiated.
Now that should just be a statement of the obvious, but if the EU start to throw their weight around by making unreasonable demands, it is a point that is worth making.
So his comments could be interpreted as "we're ready to negotiate in good faith, but you need to be ready to do likewise; if you are demanding that EU citizens in the UK should continue to be subject to EU laws, you are not acting in good faith".
This is a common misconception. The UK is not a 'partner' in the EU, it is a member. It is not responsible for EU liabilities nor is it entitled to a share of assets. It is liable to pay whatever amounts are specified in the treaties, nothing more. This has been covered extensively and the legal status appears very clear.
And, as May told Junker quite correctly, nothing much is due under the treaties. Re Marr, she is trying not to rub his nose in it in public.
Therefore, the only trade off will be whether the UK agrees to make a payment it is probably not legally liable for in return for an FTA. Which is why the EU are being stupid by insisting that the finances go first - it can't be agreed that way.
Now this, apparently, is a translation of part of the German article on what supposedly happened in the May-Juncker meeting at Downing St.
The first thing that strikes me as odd is the suggestion that the Prime Minister said she didn't want to pay any money in respect of UK liabilities. Insofar as I am aware, she has never suggested that Britain owes the EU nothing. I've actually just been watching a clip of May on the Andrew Marr Show this morning; she said that she knows the EU wants to talk about money; what she didn't do is take the opportunity to say "but they're wrong." I fully expect that, if the EU and UK can come to a reasonable agreement, it will involve the UK agreeing to pay its fair share of accumulated obligations, and the EU agreeing to hand over its fair share of accumulated assets (or monetary compensation, in the case of fixed assets like buildings.) Next.
Populism is a good thing on many occasions. As a term, its now been bastardised by the usual 'liberal', 'progressives' or whatever they are to shoot at whatever many of the public like but offends their snowflake sensibilities.
The summary Black Rook posts below looks accurate and covers most of the article. Essentially May's opening bid is reportedly at one extreme - no money owed, immediate trade access wanted, quick and modest deal for European residents.
It's too early to say whether either that or Juncker's reaction are merely negotiating ploys, but it seems to have led directly to Merkel 'British illusions" comment. I'd think that May will maintain a hard line until the election, to keep nourishing those Kipper votes. Afterwards, who knows? The problem is that the line is already doing structural damage to the prospects for an amicable deal, as it appears on the face of it that Britain is not in a mood to compromise at all.
The summary Black Rook posts below looks accurate and covers most of the article. Essentially May's opening bid is reportedly at one extreme - no money owed, immediate trade access wanted, quick and modest deal for European residents.
It's too early to say whether either that or Juncker's reaction are merely negotiating ploys, but it seems to have led directly to Merkel 'British illusions" comment. I'd think that May will maintain a hard line until the election, to keep nourishing those Kipper votes. Afterwards, who knows? The problem is that the line is already doing structural damage to the prospects for an amicable deal, as it appears on the face of it that Britain is not in a mood to compromise at all.
They haven't asked for compromise, they've demanded capitulation. May has said no. I suspect that will continue. We owe nothing, so if they want something, we would need to see the colour of the trade deal first.
Anybody tries to bring that about without the people of NI's say so and we'll just take the guns out again.
Can't you be locked up these days for that kind of comment?
Its a statement of fact. If someone attempts to force through a non democratically approved change by the people then they have a right to take it on. Almost certainly that would involve some of those opposed taking up arms.
Anyone who reads history gets that, do not mess with peoples choice of nationality.
Populism is a good thing on many occasions. As a term, its now been bastardised by the usual 'liberal', 'progressives' or whatever they are to shoot at whatever many of the public like but offends their snowflake sensibilities.
The summary Black Rook posts below looks accurate and covers most of the article. Essentially May's opening bid is reportedly at one extreme - no money owed, immediate trade access wanted, quick and modest deal for European residents.
It's too early to say whether either that or Juncker's reaction are merely negotiating ploys, but it seems to have led directly to Merkel 'British illusions" comment. I'd think that May will maintain a hard line until the election, to keep nourishing those Kipper votes. Afterwards, who knows? The problem is that the line is already doing structural damage to the prospects for an amicable deal, as it appears on the face of it that Britain is not in a mood to compromise at all.
Just posture I would think... It will help May to look tough.
The issue for May is if the exit bill is agreed first... Then she will have to deliver the country some bad news before she has anything to show in terms of achievements on the negotiations.
Populism is a good thing on many occasions. As a term, its now been bastardised by the usual 'liberal', 'progressives' or whatever they are to shoot at whatever many of the public like but offends their snowflake sensibilities.
They are not going to 'agree' the bill first. The UK will say that the minimum we will pay is 'x' and we may increase that depending on what trade deal we get. If the trade deal does not eventuate the earlier commitment will fall away - nothing is agreed until everything is agreed.
Suspect the 'x' will be so far off what the EU has convinced themselves that they will accept that trade will never get discussed.
The summary Black Rook posts below looks accurate and covers most of the article. Essentially May's opening bid is reportedly at one extreme - no money owed, immediate trade access wanted, quick and modest deal for European residents.
It's too early to say whether either that or Juncker's reaction are merely negotiating ploys, but it seems to have led directly to Merkel 'British illusions" comment. I'd think that May will maintain a hard line until the election, to keep nourishing those Kipper votes. Afterwards, who knows? The problem is that the line is already doing structural damage to the prospects for an amicable deal, as it appears on the face of it that Britain is not in a mood to compromise at all.
Just posture I would think... It will help May to look tough.
The issue for May is if the exit bill is agreed first... Then she will have to deliver the country some bad news before she has anything to show in terms of achievements on the negotiations.
Anybody tries to bring that about without the people of NI's say so and we'll just take the guns out again.
Can't you be locked up these days for that kind of comment?
Its a statement of fact. If someone attempts to force through a non democratically approved change by the people then they have a right to take it on. Almost certainly that would involve some of those opposed taking up arms.
Anyone who reads history gets that, do not mess with peoples choice of nationality.
"Ulster will fight; Ulster will be right" Lord Randolph Churchill - 7 May 1886
Anybody tries to bring that about without the people of NI's say so and we'll just take the guns out again.
Its that straightforward.
I'm pretty sure I didn't read about the rekindling of armed conflict in the 6C on the side of a bus.
Who is stupid enough to take bus livery as a guarantee of anything?
So are you going to tell Tanya Thompson the 350million was a lie? Or shall I?
www.youtube.com/watch?v=Oq3qdX2TGps
In which language is "Lie" the direct opposite of "Not A Guarantee"?
Edit: Snip to remove the YouTube embed
I must have missed that bit on the bus.
"We send the EU 350 million a week. Lets fund our NHS instead. But that's not a guarantee or anything"
However, to treat your unserious question seriously for a moment, I think from previous remarks that you are a lawyer or similar. In which case the Unfair Contract Terms Act 1977 may in fact answer your question.
Comments
Repeat a slogan a thousand times, and a journalist hears it a thousand times. But the average voter hears it once.
Important reminder, re: Theresa May and the endless repetition of "strong and stable": the minority of people who take a deep interest in politics find it anodyne and robotic, but most voters will hear it, perhaps not just the once, but just often enough for it to sink in.
We ought not to assume that things we may be tired of hearing come across as anything other than welcome and reassuring messages to the great mass of the people.
I'm sure your continental pals will be falling over themselves to make good the huge Barrett shortfall, nae worries.
https://twitter.com/DailyMirror/status/858799082281644033
Headline: "BLAIR: I'M BACK"
This is going to be fun...
The amusing thing is Labour hate him the most :-)
Most of my Leaver friends are economic liberals who thought Brexit would be easy.
I've known them long enough, plus, if Brexit does turn out to be the disaster I fear it will be (and Jeremy Cliffe's tweets confirm that), I'm going to need someone to gloat at.
He could equally well just be making the point that legally, the EU cannot simply dictate the exit terms because post-exit the UK will no longer by subject to the jurisdiction of the ECJ. The terms of withdrawal therefore have to be negotiated.
Now that should just be a statement of the obvious, but if the EU start to throw their weight around by making unreasonable demands, it is a point that is worth making.
So his comments could be interpreted as "we're ready to negotiate in good faith, but you need to be ready to do likewise; if you are demanding that EU citizens in the UK should continue to be subject to EU laws, you are not acting in good faith".
If the EU thinks that it is entitled to demand that a non-member continue to apply whole chunks of its legislation to some of the people living in said non-member state, then it has a completely different (and rather bizarre) conception of how the law should function to the rest of the world.
Your whole being is obsessed with the EU and all your post are designed as if you were Junckers mouthpiece. The problem is that there are many who do not share your adulation of the EU
Juncker seems to be acting like King Cnut here - and is shocked that he meets resistance.
I always thought that Juncker was a bit of a Cnut.
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/europe-signs-its-own-death-warrant-xpg36lnxl
If your gloat is going to consist of saying "See, I told you they were a bunch of mafioso running a protection racket and they'd try to kneecap us if we rejected them," then I would imagine that the available receptive audience will be smaller than that for the Tony Blair Comeback Tour. Just in case you didn't already know. That line of argument will be taken as vindication by the likes of Nigel Farage, and more than that a lot of more moderate folk are liable to agree with him.
All that the EU being (a) vindictive and (b) bonkers is going to do is make most of the British population blame them for everything that might go wrong as a consequence. Just look at the evidence from our own country. The Government bends over backwards to appease Scottish sentiment and hose it down with money and powers, and the SNP still polls 45%, mainly through grievance peddling. It's certainly not made itself hugely popular through being any bloody good at the actual business of governing. Now, imagine what would happen if Scotland voted to go independent and we responded by asking for, along with an enormous amount of cash, a demand that all the English people living in Scotland would have the right to continue living there under legislation made by Westminster and not the Scottish Parliament. There would be flag waving, pitchforks, burnings in effigy, and the UK Government delegation to Edinburgh being sent back homeward to think again. And quite right, too.
All that will most likely happen if talks founder because the EU is seen to make outrageous demands is that the bonds of friendship between the United Kingdom and the other EU members will fray or collapse, a whole new generation will come to despise the Germans, and also your personal favourite politician, one T May of Maidenhead, Berks, will become even more popular for telling them to get knotted. But I dare say you'll be enjoying gloating too much to care. Bully for you.
Davis is making the point that unless the UK agrees to pay the EU a divorce bill, they get nothing. Quite correct for him to point this out. If they want money, they need to deal.
The EU know this, which is why they are trying to bully the UK into agreeing the bill upfront. Fat chance.
And, as May told Junker quite correctly, nothing much is due under the treaties. Re Marr, she is trying not to rub his nose in it in public.
Therefore, the only trade off will be whether the UK agrees to make a payment it is probably not legally liable for in return for an FTA. Which is why the EU are being stupid by insisting that the finances go first - it can't be agreed that way.
http://www.faz.net/aktuell/wirtschaft/brexit/eu-kommission-skeptisch-vor-brexit-verhandlungen-14993673.html
The summary Black Rook posts below looks accurate and covers most of the article. Essentially May's opening bid is reportedly at one extreme - no money owed, immediate trade access wanted, quick and modest deal for European residents.
It's too early to say whether either that or Juncker's reaction are merely negotiating ploys, but it seems to have led directly to Merkel 'British illusions" comment. I'd think that May will maintain a hard line until the election, to keep nourishing those Kipper votes. Afterwards, who knows? The problem is that the line is already doing structural damage to the prospects for an amicable deal, as it appears on the face of it that Britain is not in a mood to compromise at all.
Sorry, I mean that 52% voted for.
Why we need to start planning for a united Ireland
Northern Ireland must be saved from an isolated and uncertain Brexit existence
Its that straightforward.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-39759199
Super safe Tory seat. Will she manage more than Al Murray the Pub landlord?
Next.
Anyone who reads history gets that, do not mess with peoples choice of nationality.
The issue for May is if the exit bill is agreed first... Then she will have to deliver the country some bad news before she has anything to show in terms of achievements on the negotiations.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jonathan_Pie
Suspect the 'x' will be so far off what the EU has convinced themselves that they will accept that trade will never get discussed.
Or shall I?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Oq3qdX2TGps
Lord Randolph Churchill - 7 May 1886
Edit: Snip to remove the YouTube embed
"We send the EU 350 million a week. Lets fund our NHS instead. But that's not a guarantee or anything"
However, to treat your unserious question seriously for a moment, I think from previous remarks that you are a lawyer or similar. In which case the Unfair Contract Terms Act 1977 may in fact answer your question.
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/mar/04/uk-could-quit-eu-without-paying-a-penny-say-lords