Overall I agree. It's also contradictory. I mean what happens to support for the single market when FOM is highlighted as a requirement.
The question does explain that the single market means 'free movement of goods, services, money and people between member states'. Although obviously the concept of being a member state without being a member state is problematic...
It is compatible with EFTA/EEA, but May seems to have ruled this out.
Surely if the election is to be a Brexit election as May announced, then we do need to know what form of Brexit she wants. The EU27 have been admirably open about their position.
I increasingly think that May is secretly planning to hold a second referendum once the exit deal is agreed. She'll say that she has obtained the best deal possible by showing the EU that we were totally serious and will then offer the people the choice between that and staying as full members (even if that means losing our opt outs).
It gets her off the hook in so many ways, and would also create a bond of trust between her and the people that would transcend party politics.
I told you last night, and I will keep telling you until it permeates that thick skull of yours..... The EU are glad we are going. They don't want us.
There will be no reversal of Brexit - even if we changed our mind. The EU want Brexit more than we do.
Oh FFS we were told any amount of crap from both sides and they voted the way they did. Get over yourself.
You mean public opinion should "get over itself"...
The polls show public support for the single market and the customs union.
It's not me you're mad at
It really is, because you have an inconsistent view about public opinion. The public voted to leave, but fuck that, even though they were told the Turks were not coming they fell for it and their view can be discounted, but on the single market complexity, oh they definitely know exactly what they want and all associated issues involved, and that is sacrosanct.
Hypocritical garbage, and I'm one would be happy to make the concessions necessary for single market access, I think soft brexit is sellable to the public, if not the Tory party or the EU (who as you have been among those gleeful to point out, are interested in punishment)
The more silliness from people like Gina Miller, the less likely compromise will be accepted.
It is rather funny seeing life's winners realise that sometimes things don't go their way...
The more airtime Gina Miller gets, the more people join our side.
If referendum II happened and I was running the Brexit II campaign, I'd put her in all the ads.
The woman is toxic - the very worst elements of smugness, elitism, arrogance and hypocrisy, all wrapped up in someone who's happy to play the courts and institutions of the country for political gain.
She's a truly despicable, self-serving cretin. Leavers should work together to give her as much airtime as possible.
Overall I agree. It's also contradictory. I mean what happens to support for the single market when FOM is highlighted as a requirement.
The question does explain that the single market means 'free movement of goods, services, money and people between member states'. Although obviously the concept of being a member state without being a member state is problematic...
It is compatible with EFTA/EEA, but May seems to have ruled this out.
Surely if the election is to be a Brexit election as May announced, then we do need to know what form of Brexit she wants. The EU27 have been admirably open about their position.
I increasingly think that May is secretly planning to hold a second referendum once the exit deal is agreed. She'll say that she has obtained the best deal possible by showing the EU that we were totally serious and will then offer the people the choice between that and staying as full members (even if that means losing our opt outs).
It gets her off the hook in so many ways, and would also create a bond of trust between her and the people that would transcend party politics.
I told you last night, and I will keep telling you until it permeates that thick skull of yours..... The EU are glad we are going. They don't want us.
There will be no reversal of Brexit - even if we changed our mind. The EU want Brexit more than we do.
If referendum II did happen and that sentiment became widespread people would vote Remain just to spite them.
Oh FFS we were told any amount of crap from both sides and they voted the way they did. Get over yourself.
You mean public opinion should "get over itself"...
The polls show public support for the single market and the customs union.
It's not me you're mad at
No point aruging with the headbanging Leavers. Hard Brexit is what they want whatever the huge cost to this country. Economic misery and hardship is a price worth paying for these lunatics.
Overall I agree. It's also contradictory. I mean what happens to support for the single market when FOM is highlighted as a requirement.
The question does explain that the single market means 'free movement of goods, services, money and people between member states'. Although obviously the concept of being a member state without being a member state is problematic...
It is compatible with EFTA/EEA, but May seems to have ruled this out.
Surely if the election is to be a Brexit election as May announced, then we do need to know what form of Brexit she wants. The EU27 have been admirably open about their position.
I increasingly think that May is secretly planning to hold a second referendum once the exit deal is agreed. She'll say that she has obtained the best deal possible by showing the EU that we were totally serious and will then offer the people the choice between that and staying as full members (even if that means losing our opt outs).
It gets her off the hook in so many ways, and would also create a bond of trust between her and the people that would transcend party politics.
I told you last night, and I will keep telling you until it permeates that thick skull of yours..... The EU are glad we are going. They don't want us.
There will be no reversal of Brexit - even if we changed our mind. The EU want Brexit more than we do.
If referendum II did happen and that sentiment became widespread people would vote Remain just to spite them.
You think the British people will ever vote for euro and Schengen membership?
Oh FFS we were told any amount of crap from both sides and they voted the way they did. Get over yourself.
You mean public opinion should "get over itself"...
The polls show public support for the single market and the customs union.
It's not me you're mad at
It really is, because you have an inconsistent view about public opinion. The public voted to leave, but fuck that, even though they were told the Turks were not coming they fell for it and their view can be discounted, but on the single market complexity, oh they definitely know exactly what they want and all associated issues involved, and that is sacrosanct.
Hypocritical garbage, and I'm one would be happy to make the concessions necessary for single market access, I think soft brexit is sellable to the public, if not the Tory party or the EU (who as you have been among those gleeful to point out, are interested in punishment)
The more silliness from people like Gina Miller, the less likely compromise will be accepted.
It is rather funny seeing life's winners realise that sometimes things don't go their way...
The more airtime Gina Miller gets, the more people join our side.
If referendum II happened and I was running the Brexit II campaign, I'd put her in all the ads.
The woman is toxic - the very worst elements of smugness, elitism, arrogance and hypocrisy, all wrapped up in someone who's happy to play the courts and institutions of the country for political gain.
She's a truly despicable, self-serving cretin. Leavers should work together to give her as much airtime as possible.
You nuts brother?
I'm sorry, I fail to see what you find odd about my assertion that Gina Miller is a polarising figure who represents the worst excesses of the metropolitan elite.
She's smug, arrogant and utterly duplitictous - look at her willingness to fund the SNP. The clue, there, is in the NP.
When people like Heseltine and Ken Clarke or hell, even Tony Blair, warn about the dangers of Brexit, they have some gravitas and I listen.
Every time Gina Miller opens her mouth another Brexiteer is created.
I told you last night, and I will keep telling you until it permeates that thick skull of yours..... The EU are glad we are going. They don't want us.
There will be no reversal of Brexit - even if we changed our mind. The EU want Brexit more than we do.
That's not what your fellow Brexiteers have been saying...
Apparently they are desperate for our cash, or something
I don't care tuppence what extreme Brexiteers say (or the extremist Remainers on the opposite side of the argument). I don't follow the herd - I just tell it as I see it.
The relief that we are going is palpable in EU countries. There will be parties across Europe when the two year deadline runs out, and they finally get rid of us.
We were the awkward squad who kept blocking them and refused to join in fully with the great project. I think that they suspected it might come to a final parting of the ways when we refused to join the Euro.
@SeanT - You can try posting it again. As far as I can tell it wasn't moderated.
It's disappeared! Weird. It was definitely there. Can't be arsed to write it again. Maybe tomorrow.
LOL, SeanT. At Easter dinner, at a Michelin one star in DC, my wife ordered turbot. Dreadful - overcooked and on couscous.
I can cook better than that at home with just some tin foil, butter, tarragon and a charcoal grill. Told the waiter, who asked for feedback, that the dish was so bad it would harm the restaurant's reputation. I don't think he had been looking for honesty.
Oh FFS we were told any amount of crap from both sides and they voted the way they did. Get over yourself.
You mean public opinion should "get over itself"...
The polls show public support for the single market and the customs union.
It's not me you're mad at
It really is, because you have an inconsistent view about public opinion. The public voted to leave, but fuck that, even though they were told the Turks were not coming they fell for it and their view can be discounted, but on the single market complexity, oh they definitely know exactly what they want and all associated issues involved, and that is sacrosanct.
Hypocritical garbage, and I'm one would be happy to make the concessions necessary for single market access, I think soft brexit is sellable to the public, if not the Tory party or the EU (who as you have been among those gleeful to point out, are interested in punishment)
The more silliness from people like Gina Miller, the less likely compromise will be accepted.
It is rather funny seeing life's winners realise that sometimes things don't go their way...
The more airtime Gina Miller gets, the more people join our side.
If referendum II happened and I was running the Brexit II campaign, I'd put her in all the ads.
The woman is toxic - the very worst elements of smugness, elitism, arrogance and hypocrisy, all wrapped up in someone who's happy to play the courts and institutions of the country for political gain.
She's a truly despicable, self-serving cretin. Leavers should work together to give her as much airtime as possible.
It was the government that wasted time on the Miller case. They could have introduced and passed the A50 bill in September if May had got on with the job. Indeed delay and confusion has characterised the Governments position all along. Strong and stable? My Arse!
Oh FFS we were told any amount of crap from both sides and they voted the way they did. Get over yourself.
You mean public opinion should "get over itself"...
The polls show public support for the single market and the customs union.
It's not me you're mad at
It really is, because you have an inconsistent view about public opinion. The public voted to leave, but fuck that, even though they were told the Turks were not coming they fell for it and their view can be discounted, but on the single market complexity, oh they definitely know exactly what they want and all associated issues involved, and that is sacrosanct.
Hypocritical garbage, and I'm one would be happy to make the concessions necessary for single market access, I think soft brexit is sellable to the public, if not the Tory party or the EU (who as you have been among those gleeful to point out, are interested in punishment)
The more silliness from people like Gina Miller, the less likely compromise will be accepted.
It is rather funny seeing life's winners realise that sometimes things don't go their way...
The more airtime Gina Miller gets, the more people join our side.
If referendum II happened and I was running the Brexit II campaign, I'd put her in all the ads.
The woman is toxic - the very worst elements of smugness, elitism, arrogance and hypocrisy, all wrapped up in someone who's happy to play the courts and institutions of the country for political gain.
She's a truly despicable, self-serving cretin. Leavers should work together to give her as much airtime as possible.
It was the government that wasted time on the Miller case. They could have introduced and passed the A50 bill in September if May had got on with the job. Indeed delay and confusion has characterised the Governments position all along. Strong and stable? My Arse!
Oh FFS we were told any amount of crap from both sides and they voted the way they did. Get over yourself.
You mean public opinion should "get over itself"...
The polls show public support for the single market and the customs union.
It's not me you're mad at
It really is, because you have an inconsistent view about public opinion. The public voted to leave, but fuck that, even though they were told the Turks were not coming they fell for it and their view can be discounted, but on the single market complexity, oh they definitely know exactly what they want and all associated issues involved, and that is sacrosanct.
Hypocritical garbage, and I'm one would be happy to make the concessions necessary for single market access, I think soft brexit is sellable to the public, if not the Tory party or the EU (who as you have been among those gleeful to point out, are interested in punishment)
The more silliness from people like Gina Miller, the less likely compromise will be accepted.
It is rather funny seeing life's winners realise that sometimes things don't go their way...
The more airtime Gina Miller gets, the more people join our side.
If referendum II happened and I was running the Brexit II campaign, I'd put her in all the ads.
The woman is toxic - the very worst elements of smugness, elitism, arrogance and hypocrisy, all wrapped up in someone who's happy to play the courts and institutions of the country for political gain.
She's a truly despicable, self-serving cretin. Leavers should work together to give her as much airtime as possible.
You nuts brother?
I'm sorry, I fail to see what you find odd about my assertion that Gina Miller is a polarising figure who represents the worst excesses of the metropolitan elite.
She's smug, arrogant and utterly duplitictous - look at her willingness to fund the SNP. The clue, there, is in the NP.
When people like Heseltine and Ken Clarke or hell, even Tony Blair, warn about the dangers of Brexit, they have some gravitas and I listen.
Every time Gina Miller opens her mouth another Brexiteer is created.
Gina Miller is my poster girl - intelligent, good looking and articulate. Far better than many politicians. I love her to bits....
Oh FFS we were told any amount of crap from both sides and they voted the way they did. Get over yourself.
You mean public opinion should "get over itself"...
The polls show public support for the single market and the customs union.
It's not me you're mad at
It really is, because you have an inconsistent view about public opinion. The public voted to leave, but fuck that, even though they were told the Turks were not coming they fell for it and their view can be discounted, but on the single market complexity, oh they definitely know exactly what they want and all associated issues involved, and that is sacrosanct.
Hypocritical garbage, and I'm one would be happy to make the concessions necessary for single market access, I think soft brexit is sellable to the public, if not the Tory party or the EU (who as you have been among those gleeful to point out, are interested in punishment)
The more silliness from people like Gina Miller, the less likely compromise will be accepted.
It is rather funny seeing life's winners realise that sometimes things don't go their way...
The more airtime Gina Miller gets, the more people join our side.
If referendum II happened and I was running the Brexit II campaign, I'd put her in all the ads.
The woman is toxic - the very worst elements of smugness, elitism, arrogance and hypocrisy, all wrapped up in someone who's happy to play the courts and institutions of the country for political gain.
She's a truly despicable, self-serving cretin. Leavers should work together to give her as much airtime as possible.
You nuts brother?
I'm sorry, I fail to see what you find odd about my assertion that Gina Miller is a polarising figure who represents the worst excesses of the metropolitan elite.
She's smug, arrogant and utterly duplitictous - look at her willingness to fund the SNP. The clue, there, is in the NP.
When people like Heseltine and Ken Clarke or hell, even Tony Blair, warn about the dangers of Brexit, they have some gravitas and I listen.
Every time Gina Miller opens her mouth another Brexiteer is created.
Gina Miller is my poster girl - intelligent, good looking and articulate. Far better than many politicians. I love her to bits....
Overall I agree. It's also contradictory. I mean what happens to support for the single market when FOM is highlighted as a requirement.
The question does explain that the single market means 'free movement of goods, services, money and people between member states'. Although obviously the concept of being a member state without being a member state is problematic...
It is compatible with EFTA/EEA, but May seems to have ruled this out.
Surely if the election is to be a Brexit election as May announced, then we do need to know what form of Brexit she wants. The EU27 have been admirably open about their position.
I increasingly think that May is secretly planning to hold a second referendum once the exit deal is agreed. She'll say that she has obtained the best deal possible by showing the EU that we were totally serious and will then offer the people the choice between that and staying as full members (even if that means losing our opt outs).
It gets her off the hook in so many ways, and would also create a bond of trust between her and the people that would transcend party politics.
I told you last night, and I will keep telling you until it permeates that thick skull of yours..... The EU are glad we are going. They don't want us.
There will be no reversal of Brexit - even if we changed our mind. The EU want Brexit more than we do.
If referendum II did happen and that sentiment became widespread people would vote Remain just to spite them.
You think the British people will ever vote for euro and Schengen membership?
I think the people have rejected the dissembling, 'let's pretend it's just a trade bloc' approach to the EU forever. Now it's either hard Brexit, or the EU proper. (In practice I don't think we'd need to join Schengen though even then.)
If we did go back on the decision, the people would expect us to be at the top table, and that means joining the Euro.
Oh FFS we were told any amount of crap from both sides and they voted the way they did. Get over yourself.
You mean public opinion should "get over itself"...
The polls show public support for the single market and the customs union.
It's not me you're mad at
It really is, because you have an inconsistent view about public opinion. The public voted to leave, but fuck that, even though they were told the Turks were not coming they fell for it and their view can be discounted, but on the single market complexity, oh they definitely know exactly what they want and all associated issues involved, and that is sacrosanct.
Hypocritical garbage, and I'm one would be happy to make the concessions necessary for single market access, I think soft brexit is sellable to the public, if not the Tory party or the EU (who as you have been among those gleeful to point out, are interested in punishment)
The more silliness from people like Gina Miller, the less likely compromise will be accepted.
It is rather funny seeing life's winners realise that sometimes things don't go their way...
The more airtime Gina Miller gets, the more people join our side.
If referendum II happened and I was running the Brexit II campaign, I'd put her in all the ads.
The woman is toxic - the very worst elements of smugness, elitism, arrogance and hypocrisy, all wrapped up in someone who's happy to play the courts and institutions of the country for political gain.
She's a truly despicable, self-serving cretin. Leavers should work together to give her as much airtime as possible.
It was the government that wasted time on the Miller case. They could have introduced and passed the A50 bill in September if May had got on with the job. Indeed delay and confusion has characterised the Governments position all along. Strong and stable? My Arse!
Oh FFS we were told any amount of crap from both sides and they voted the way they did. Get over yourself.
You mean public opinion should "get over itself"...
The polls show public support for the single market and the customs union.
It's not me you're mad at
It really is, because you have an inconsistent view about public opinion. The public voted to leave, but fuck that, even though they were told the Turks were not coming they fell for it and their view can be discounted, but on the single market complexity, oh they definitely know exactly what they want and all associated issues involved, and that is sacrosanct.
Hypocritical garbage, and I'm one would be happy to make the concessions necessary for single market access, I think soft brexit is sellable to the public, if not the Tory party or the EU (who as you have been among those gleeful to point out, are interested in punishment)
The more silliness from people like Gina Miller, the less likely compromise will be accepted.
It is rather funny seeing life's winners realise that sometimes things don't go their way...
The more airtime Gina Miller gets, the more people join our side.
If referendum II happened and I was running the Brexit II campaign, I'd put her in all the ads.
The woman is toxic - the very worst elements of smugness, elitism, arrogance and hypocrisy, all wrapped up in someone who's happy to play the courts and institutions of the country for political gain.
She's a truly despicable, self-serving cretin. Leavers should work together to give her as much airtime as possible.
It was the government that wasted time on the Miller case. They could have introduced and passed the A50 bill in September if May had got on with the job. Indeed delay and confusion has characterised the Governments position all along. Strong and stable? My Arse!
I'm all in favour of all three branches of government being involved in the process and I rather agree with the letter of Gina Miller's court case. What I don't agree with, however, is the spirit of it. Her actions since then have clearly demonstrated her desire was not to make a constitutional point, but rather to delay, thwart, even subvert, the result of a fair and democratic plebiscite.
As I say, she represents the very worst elements of an out of touch and undemocratic elite and the more airtime she is given, the better.
Oh FFS we were told any amount of crap from both sides and they voted the way they did. Get over yourself.
You mean public opinion should "get over itself"...
The polls show public support for the single market and the customs union.
It's not me you're mad at
It really is, because you have an inconsistent view about public opinion. The public voted to leave, but fuck that, even though they were told the Turks were not coming they fell for it and their view can be discounted, but on the single market complexity, oh they definitely know exactly what they want and all associated issues involved, and that is sacrosanct.
Hypocritical garbage, and I'm one would be happy to make the concessions necessary for single market access, I think soft brexit is sellable to the public, if not the Tory party or the EU (who as you have been among those gleeful to point out, are interested in punishment)
The more silliness from people like Gina Miller, the less likely compromise will be accepted.
It is rather funny seeing life's winners realise that sometimes things don't go their way...
The more airtime Gina Miller gets, the more people join our side.
If referendum II happened and I was running the Brexit II campaign, I'd put her in all the ads.
The woman is toxic - the very worst elements of smugness, elitism, arrogance and hypocrisy, all wrapped up in someone who's happy to play the courts and institutions of the country for political gain.
She's a truly despicable, self-serving cretin. Leavers should work together to give her as much airtime as possible.
It was the government that wasted time on the Miller case.
Nope. It was important for the government to defend democracy. At least now we know where we stand: referendums are officially irrelevant.
Overall I agree. It's also contradictory. I mean what happens to support for the single market when FOM is highlighted as a requirement.
The question does explain that the single market means 'free movement of goods, services, money and people between member states'. Although obviously the concept of being a member state without being a member state is problematic...
It is compatible with EFTA/EEA, but May seems to have ruled this out.
Surely if the election is to be a Brexit election as May announced, then we do need to know what form of Brexit she wants. The EU27 have been admirably open about their position.
I increasingly think that May is secretly planning to hold a second referendum once the exit deal is agreed. She'll say that she has obtained the best deal possible by showing the EU that we were totally serious and will then offer the people the choice between that and staying as full members (even if that means losing our opt outs).
It gets her off the hook in so many ways, and would also create a bond of trust between her and the people that would transcend party politics.
I told you last night, and I will keep telling you until it permeates that thick skull of yours..... The EU are glad we are going. They don't want us.
There will be no reversal of Brexit - even if we changed our mind. The EU want Brexit more than we do.
If referendum II did happen and that sentiment became widespread people would vote Remain just to spite them.
You think the British people will ever vote for euro and Schengen membership?
I think the people have rejected the dissembling, 'let's pretend it's just a trade bloc' approach to the EU forever. Now it's either hard Brexit, or the EU proper. (In practice I don't think we'd need to join Schengen though even then.)
If we did go back on the decision, the people would expect us to be at the top table, and that means joining the Euro.
I absolutely agree. It's also what would have happened if we had voted to Remain.
Oh FFS we were told any amount of crap from both sides and they voted the way they did. Get over yourself.
You mean public opinion should "get over itself"...
The polls show public support for the single market and the customs union.
It's not me you're mad at
It really is, because you have an inconsistent view about public opinion. The public voted to leave, but fuck that, even though they were told the Turks were not coming they fell for it and their view can be discounted, but on the single market complexity, oh they definitely know exactly what they want and all associated issues involved, and that is sacrosanct.
Hypocritical garbage, and I'm one would be happy to make the concessions necessary for single market access, I think soft brexit is sellable to the public, if not the Tory party or the EU (who as you have been among those gleeful to point out, are interested in punishment)
The more silliness from people like Gina Miller, the less likely compromise will be accepted.
It is rather funny seeing life's winners realise that sometimes things don't go their way...
The more airtime Gina Miller gets, the more people join our side.
If referendum II happened and I was running the Brexit II campaign, I'd put her in all the ads.
The woman is toxic - the very worst elements of smugness, elitism, arrogance and hypocrisy, all wrapped up in someone who's happy to play the courts and institutions of the country for political gain.
She's a truly despicable, self-serving cretin. Leavers should work together to give her as much airtime as possible.
It was the government that wasted time on the Miller case. They could have introduced and passed the A50 bill in September if May had got on with the job. Indeed delay and confusion has characterised the Governments position all along. Strong and stable? My Arse!
Oh FFS we were told any amount of crap from both sides and they voted the way they did. Get over yourself.
You mean public opinion should "get over itself"...
The polls show public support for the single market and the customs union.
It's not me you're mad at
It really is, because you have an inconsistent view about public opinion. The public voted to leave, but fuck that, even though they were told the Turks were not coming they fell for it and their view can be discounted, but on the single market complexity, oh they definitely know exactly what they want and all associated issues involved, and that is sacrosanct.
Hypocritical garbage, and I'm one would be happy to make the concessions necessary for single market access, I think soft brexit is sellable to the public, if not the Tory party or the EU (who as you have been among those gleeful to point out, are interested in punishment)
The more silliness from people like Gina Miller, the less likely compromise will be accepted.
It is rather funny seeing life's winners realise that sometimes things don't go their way...
The more airtime Gina Miller gets, the more people join our side.
If referendum II happened and I was running the Brexit II campaign, I'd put her in all the ads.
The woman is toxic - the very worst elements of smugness, elitism, arrogance and hypocrisy, all wrapped up in someone who's happy to play the courts and institutions of the country for political gain.
She's a truly despicable, self-serving cretin. Leavers should work together to give her as much airtime as possible.
It was the government that wasted time on the Miller case. They could have introduced and passed the A50 bill in September if May had got on with the job. Indeed delay and confusion has characterised the Governments position all along. Strong and stable? My Arse!
Oh FFS we were told any amount of crap from both sides and they voted the way they did. Get over yourself.
You mean public opinion should "get over itself"...
The polls show public support for the single market and the customs union.
It's not me you're mad at
It really is, because you have an inconsistent view about public opinion. The public voted to leave, but fuck that, even though they were told the Turks were not coming they fell for it and their view can be discounted, but on the single market complexity, oh they definitely know exactly what they want and all associated issues involved, and that is sacrosanct.
Hypocritical garbage, and I'm one would be happy to make the concessions necessary for single market access, I think soft brexit is sellable to the public, if not the Tory party or the EU (who as you have been among those gleeful to point out, are interested in punishment)
The more silliness from people like Gina Miller, the less likely compromise will be accepted.
It is rather funny seeing life's winners realise that sometimes things don't go their way...
The more airtime Gina Miller gets, the more people join our side.
If referendum II happened and I was running the Brexit II campaign, I'd put her in all the ads.
The woman is toxic - the very worst elements of smugness, elitism, arrogance and hypocrisy, all wrapped up in someone who's happy to play the courts and institutions of the country for political gain.
She's a truly despicable, self-serving cretin. Leavers should work together to give her as much airtime as possible.
It was the government that wasted time on the Miller case. They could have introduced and passed the A50 bill in September if May had got on with the job. Indeed delay and confusion has characterised the Governments position all along. Strong and stable? My Arse!
Oh FFS we were told any amount of crap from both sides and they voted the way they did. Get over yourself.
You mean public opinion should "get over itself"...
The polls show public support for the single market and the customs union.
It's not me you're mad at
It really is, because you have an inconsistent view about public opinion. The public voted to leave, but fuck that, even though they were told the Turks were not coming they fell for it and their view can be discounted, but on the single market complexity, oh they definitely know exactly what they want and all associated issues involved, and that is sacrosanct.
Hypocritical garbage, and I'm one would be happy to make the concessions necessary for single market access, I think soft brexit is sellable to the public, if not the Tory party or the EU (who as you have been among those gleeful to point out, are interested in punishment)
The more silliness from people like Gina Miller, the less likely compromise will be accepted.
It is rather funny seeing life's winners realise that sometimes things don't go their way...
The more airtime Gina Miller gets, the more people join our side.
If referendum II happened and I was running the Brexit II campaign, I'd put her in all the ads.
The woman is toxic - the very worst elements of smugness, elitism, arrogance and hypocrisy, all wrapped up in someone who's happy to play the courts and institutions of the country for political gain.
She's a truly despicable, self-serving cretin. Leavers should work together to give her as much airtime as possible.
It was the government that wasted time on the Miller case.
Nope. It was important for the government to defend democracy. At least now we know where we stand: referendums are officially irrelevant.
Not sure you can say that. Constitutionally, maybe. But politically, there is no way MPs would have voted through Article 50 without the referendum.
Overall I agree. It's also contradictory. I mean what happens to support for the single market when FOM is highlighted as a requirement.
The question does explain that the single market means 'free movement of goods, services, money and people between member states'. Although obviously the concept of being a member state without being a member state is problematic...
It is compatible with EFTA/EEA, but May seems to have ruled this out.
Surely if the election is to be a Brexit election as May announced, then we do need to know what form of Brexit she wants. The EU27 have been admirably open about their position.
I increasingly think that May is secretly planning to hold a second referendum once the exit deal is agreed. She'll say that she has obtained the best deal possible by showing the EU that we were totally serious and will then offer the people the choice between that and staying as full members (even if that means losing our opt outs).
It gets her off the hook in so many ways, and would also create a bond of trust between her and the people that would transcend party politics.
I told you last night, and I will keep telling you until it permeates that thick skull of yours..... The EU are glad we are going. They don't want us.
There will be no reversal of Brexit - even if we changed our mind. The EU want Brexit more than we do.
If referendum II did happen and that sentiment became widespread people would vote Remain just to spite them.
You think the British people will ever vote for euro and Schengen membership?
I think the people have rejected the dissembling, 'let's pretend it's just a trade bloc' approach to the EU forever. Now it's either hard Brexit, or the EU proper. (In practice I don't think we'd need to join Schengen though even then.)
If we did go back on the decision, the people would expect us to be at the top table, and that means joining the Euro.
Doesn't accession stipulate either Schengen or the Common Travel Area?
I suspect it will be a few years before we apply again, and by then the North Sea Oil will be gone (either physically, or to Indy Scotland). This makes the £/€ exchange rate more stable. We would only want to reapply if the Eurozone was thrving and the Euro a major reserve currency. Any situation where we would want to rejoin would be because we wanted to hitch onto European success, the primary reason we joined in the first place in the Seventies.
Oh FFS we were told any amount of crap from both sides and they voted the way they did. Get over yourself.
You mean public opinion should "get over itself"...
The polls show public support for the single market and the customs union.
It's not me you're mad at
It really is, because you have an inconsistent view about public opinion. The public voted to leave, but fuck that, even though they were told the Turks were not coming they fell for it and their view can be discounted, but on the single market complexity, oh they definitely know exactly what they want and all associated issues involved, and that is sacrosanct.
Hypocritical garbage, and I'm one would be happy to make the concessions necessary for single market access, I think soft brexit is sellable to the public, if not the Tory party or the EU (who as you have been among those gleeful to point out, are interested in punishment)
The more silliness from people like Gina Miller, the less likely compromise will be accepted.
It is rather funny seeing life's winners realise that sometimes things don't go their way...
The more airtime Gina Miller gets, the more people join our side.
If referendum II happened and I was running the Brexit II campaign, I'd put her in all the ads.
The woman is toxic - the very worst elements of smugness, elitism, arrogance and hypocrisy, all wrapped up in someone who's happy to play the courts and institutions of the country for political gain.
She's a truly despicable, self-serving cretin. Leavers should work together to give her as much airtime as possible.
You nuts brother?
I'm sorry, I fail to see what you find odd about my assertion that Gina Miller is a polarising figure who represents the worst excesses of the metropolitan elite.
She's smug, arrogant and utterly duplitictous - look at her willingness to fund the SNP. The clue, there, is in the NP.
When people like Heseltine and Ken Clarke or hell, even Tony Blair, warn about the dangers of Brexit, they have some gravitas and I listen.
Every time Gina Miller opens her mouth another Brexiteer is created.
Gina Miller is my poster girl - intelligent, good looking and articulate. Far better than many politicians. I love her to bits....
Oh FFS we were told any amount of crap from both sides and they voted the way they did. Get over yourself.
You mean public opinion should "get over itself"...
The polls show public support for the single market and the customs union.
It's not me you're mad at
It really is, because you have an inconsistent view about public opinion. The public voted to leave, but fuck that, even though they were told the Turks were not coming they fell for it and their view can be discounted, but on the single market complexity, oh they definitely know exactly what they want and all associated issues involved, and that is sacrosanct.
Hypocritical garbage, and I'm one would be happy to make the concessions necessary for single market access, I think soft brexit is sellable to the public, if not the Tory party or the EU (who as you have been among those gleeful to point out, are interested in punishment)
The more silliness from people like Gina Miller, the less likely compromise will be accepted.
It is rather funny seeing life's winners realise that sometimes things don't go their way...
The more airtime Gina Miller gets, the more people join our side.
If referendum II happened and I was running the Brexit II campaign, I'd put her in all the ads.
The woman is toxic - the very worst elements of smugness, elitism, arrogance and hypocrisy, all wrapped up in someone who's happy to play the courts and institutions of the country for political gain.
She's a truly despicable, self-serving cretin. Leavers should work together to give her as much airtime as possible.
It was the government that wasted time on the Miller case. They could have introduced and passed the A50 bill in September if May had got on with the job. Indeed delay and confusion has characterised the Governments position all along. Strong and stable? My Arse!
Oh FFS we were told any amount of crap from both sides and they voted the way they did. Get over yourself.
You mean public opinion should "get over itself"...
The polls show public support for the single market and the customs union.
It's not me you're mad at
It really is, because you have an inconsistent view about public opinion. The public voted to leave, but fuck that, even though they were told the Turks were not coming they fell for it and their view can be discounted, but on the single market complexity, oh they definitely know exactly what they want and all associated issues involved, and that is sacrosanct.
Hypocritical garbage, and I'm one would be happy to make the concessions necessary for single market access, I think soft brexit is sellable to the public, if not the Tory party or the EU (who as you have been among those gleeful to point out, are interested in punishment)
The more silliness from people like Gina Miller, the less likely compromise will be accepted.
It is rather funny seeing life's winners realise that sometimes things don't go their way...
The more airtime Gina Miller gets, the more people join our side.
If referendum II happened and I was running the Brexit II campaign, I'd put her in all the ads.
The woman is toxic - the very worst elements of smugness, elitism, arrogance and hypocrisy, all wrapped up in someone who's happy to play the courts and institutions of the country for political gain.
She's a truly despicable, self-serving cretin. Leavers should work together to give her as much airtime as possible.
You nuts brother?
I'm sorry, I fail to see what you find odd about my assertion that Gina Miller is a polarising figure who represents the worst excesses of the metropolitan elite.
She's smug, arrogant and utterly duplitictous - look at her willingness to fund the SNP. The clue, there, is in the NP.
When people like Heseltine and Ken Clarke or hell, even Tony Blair, warn about the dangers of Brexit, they have some gravitas and I listen.
Every time Gina Miller opens her mouth another Brexiteer is created.
Gina Miller is my poster girl - intelligent, good looking and articulate. Far better than many politicians. I love her to bits....
She is a good 'un. Would be more fun for a dinner party than Theresa May.
It really is, because you have an inconsistent view about public opinion. The public voted to leave, but fuck that, even though they were told the Turks were not coming they fell for it and their view can be discounted, but on the single market complexity, oh they definitely know exactly what they want and all associated issues involved, and that is sacrosanct.
Hypocritical garbage, and I'm one would be happy to make the concessions necessary for single market access, I think soft brexit is sellable to the public, if not the Tory party or the EU (who as you have been among those gleeful to point out, are interested in punishment)
The more silliness from people like Gina Miller, the less likely compromise will be accepted.
It is rather funny seeing life's winners realise that sometimes things don't go their way...
The more airtime Gina Miller gets, the more people join our side.
If referendum II happened and I was running the Brexit II campaign, I'd put her in all the ads.
The woman is toxic - the very worst elements of smugness, elitism, arrogance and hypocrisy, all wrapped up in someone who's happy to play the courts and institutions of the country for political gain.
She's a truly despicable, self-serving cretin. Leavers should work together to give her as much airtime as possible.
It was the government that wasted time on the Miller case. They could have introduced and passed the A50 bill in September if May had got on with the job. Indeed delay and confusion has characterised the Governments position all along. Strong and stable? My Arse!
There will also be a possibility to extend the negotiations which there wouldn't have been without holding the election now.
The last 6 months are required for ratification by the MEPs, and by the national parliaments, many of which are slow, and obstinate.
That's why it's important that when the deal is reached, as EU deals always are, at the last minute, that the A50 period can be extended to cover ratification. It wouldn't be six months though, there are no questions - except one: Deal or No Deal?
'Still, let’s not get too complacent. If such a politician can get 40% of the vote in the country of The Declaration of the Rights of Man (as polls suggest she might), imagine what a party without such baggage'
The EU will of course completely ignore this large minority until it's too late.
I really enjoyed reading this piece by Cyclefree. It's so thoughtful and evocative. All I can say is Hollande is the exception to the rule, because he took profound steps to commemorate the five thousand victims of 'Vel d'Hiv', which makes Le Pen's muddled thinking even more regressive and, well, stupid. I understood her remarks about 'Vel d'Hiv' as incredibly simplistic and stemming not from racism this time, or even anti-Semitism, but from zealous patriotism. She has even pledged to expunge WWII from French school curricula. Her patriotism is irrational, sentimental - a bit like certain mothers (and fathers) who won't hear a word said against their children, even when they have slaughtered half the neighbourhood.
Oh FFS we were told any amount of crap from both sides and they voted the way they did. Get over yourself.
You mean public opinion should "get over itself"...
The polls show public support for the single market and the customs union.
It's not me you're mad at
It really is, because you have an inconsistent view about public opinion. The public voted to leave, but fuck that, even though they were told the Turks were not coming they fell for it and their view can be discounted, but on the single market complexity, oh they definitely know exactly what they want and all associated issues involved, and that is sacrosanct.
Hypocritical garbage, and I'm one would be happy to make the concessions necessary for single market access, I think soft brexit is sellable to the public, if not the Tory party or the EU (who as you have been among those gleeful to point out, are interested in punishment)
The more silliness from people like Gina Miller, the less likely compromise will be accepted.
It is rather funny seeing life's winners realise that sometimes things don't go their way...
The more airtime Gina Miller gets, the more people join our side.
If referendum II happened and I was running the Brexit II campaign, I'd put her in all the ads.
The woman is toxic - the very worst elements of smugness, elitism, arrogance and hypocrisy, all wrapped up in someone who's happy to play the courts and institutions of the country for political gain.
She's a truly despicable, self-serving cretin. Leavers should work together to give her as much airtime as possible.
It was the government that wasted time on the Miller case. They could have introduced and passed the A50 bill in September if May had got on with the job. Indeed delay and confusion has characterised the Governments position all along. Strong and stable? My Arse!
Oh FFS we were told any amount of crap from both sides and they voted the way they did. Get over yourself.
You mean public opinion should "get over itself"...
The polls show public support for the single market and the customs union.
It's not me you're mad at
It really is, because you have an inconsistent view about public opinion. The public voted to leave, but fuck that, even though they were told the Turks were not coming they fell for it and their view can be discounted, but on the single market complexity, oh they definitely know exactly what they want and all associated issues involved, and that is sacrosanct.
Hypocritical garbage, and I'm one would be happy to make the concessions necessary for single market access, I think soft brexit is sellable to the public, if not the Tory party or the EU (who as you have been among those gleeful to point out, are interested in punishment)
The more silliness from people like Gina Miller, the less likely compromise will be accepted.
It is rather funny seeing life's winners realise that sometimes things don't go their way...
The more airtime Gina Miller gets, the more people join our side.
If referendum II happened and I was running the Brexit II campaign, I'd put her in all the ads.
The woman is toxic - the very worst elements of smugness, elitism, arrogance and hypocrisy, all wrapped up in someone who's happy to play the courts and institutions of the country for political gain.
She's a truly despicable, self-serving cretin. Leavers should work together to give her as much airtime as possible.
You nuts brother?
I'm sorry, I fail to see what you find odd about my assertion that Gina Miller is a polarising figure who represents the worst excesses of the metropolitan elite.
She's smug, arrogant and utterly duplitictous - look at her willingness to fund the SNP. The clue, there, is in the NP.
When people like Heseltine and Ken Clarke or hell, even Tony Blair, warn about the dangers of Brexit, they have some gravitas and I listen.
Every time Gina Miller opens her mouth another Brexiteer is created.
Gina Miller is my poster girl - intelligent, good looking and articulate. Far better than many politicians. I love her to bits....
She is a good 'un. Would be more fun for a dinner party than Theresa May.
She's a self populist who was done up like a kipper on a recent tv interview.
1) Give all workers equal rights from day one, whether part-time or full-time, temporary or permanent – so that all workers have the same rights and protections whatever kind of job they have
2) Ban zero hours contracts – so that every worker gets a guaranteed number of hours each week
3) Ensure that any employer wishing to recruit labour from abroad does not undercut workers at home – because it causes divisions when one workforce is used against another
4) Repeal the Trade Union Act and roll out sectoral collective bargaining – because the most effective way to maintain good rights at work is through a trade union
5) Guarantee trade unions a right to access workplaces – so that unions can speak to members and potential members
6) Introduce four new Bank Holidays – we’ll bring our country together with new holidays to mark our four national patron saints’ days, so that workers in Britain get the same proper breaks as in other countries.
7) Raise the minimum wage to the level of the living wage (expected to be at least £10 per hour by 2020) – so that no one in work gets poverty pay
8) End the public sector pay cap – because public sector wages have fallen and our public sector workers deserve a pay rise
9) Amend the takeover code to ensure every takeover proposal has a clear plan in place to protect workers and pensioners – because workers shouldn’t suffer when a company is sold
10) Roll out maximum pay ratios – of 20:1 in the public sector and companies bidding for public contracts – because it cannot be right that wages at the top keep rising while everyone else’s stagnates
11) Ban unpaid internships – because it’s not fair for some to get a leg up when others can’t afford to
12) Enforce all workers’ rights to trade union representation at work – so that all workers can be supported when negotiating with their employer
13) Abolish employment tribunal fees – so that people have access to justice
14) Double paid paternity leave to four weeks and increase paternity pay – because fathers are parents too and deserve to spend more time with their new babies
15) Strengthen protections for women against unfair redundancy – because no one should be penalised for having children
16) Hold a public inquiry into blacklisting – to ensure that blacklisting truly becomes and remains a thing of the past
17) Give equalities reps statutory rights – so they have time to protect workers from discrimination
1*) Reinstate protection against third party harassment – because everyone deserves to be safe at work
19) Use public spending power to drive up standards, including only awarding public contracts to companies which recognise trade unions
20) Introduce a civil enforcement system to ensure compliance with gender pay auditing– so that all workers have fair access to employment and promotion opportunities and are treated fairly at work
Oh FFS we were told any amount of crap from both sides and they voted the way they did. Get over yourself.
You mean public opinion should "get over itself"...
The polls show public support for the single market and the customs union.
It's not me you're mad at
It really is, because you have an inconsistent view about public opinion. The public voted to leave, but fuck that, even though they were told the Turks were not coming they fell for it and their view can be discounted, but on the single market complexity, oh they definitely know exactly what they want and all associated issues involved, and that is sacrosanct.
Hypocritical garbage, and I'm one would be happy to make the concessions necessary for single market access, I think soft brexit is sellable to the public, if not the Tory party or the EU (who as you have been among those gleeful to point out, are interested in punishment)
The more silliness from people like Gina Miller, the less likely compromise will be accepted.
It is rather funny seeing life's winners realise that sometimes things don't go their way...
The more airtime Gina Miller gets, the more people join our side.
If referendum II happened and I was running the Brexit II campaign, I'd put her in all the ads.
The woman is toxic - the very worst elements of smugness, elitism, arrogance and hypocrisy, all wrapped up in someone who's happy to play the courts and institutions of the country for political gain.
She's a truly despicable, self-serving cretin. Leavers should work together to give her as much airtime as possible.
You nuts brother?
I'm sorry, I fail to see what you find odd about my assertion that Gina Miller is a polarising figure who represents the worst excesses of the metropolitan elite.
She's smug, arrogant and utterly duplitictous - look at her willingness to fund the SNP. The clue, there, is in the NP.
When people like Heseltine and Ken Clarke or hell, even Tony Blair, warn about the dangers of Brexit, they have some gravitas and I listen.
Every time Gina Miller opens her mouth another Brexiteer is created.
Gina Miller is my poster girl - intelligent, good looking and articulate. Far better than many politicians. I love her to bits....
She is a good 'un. Would be more fun for a dinner party than Theresa May.
Oh FFS we were told any amount of crap from both sides and they voted the way they did. Get over yourself.
You mean public opinion should "get over itself"...
The polls show public support for the single market and the customs union.
It's not me you're mad at
Depends entirely which poll you look at 'A new YouGov survey published yesterday will boost the Prime Minister’s confidence in her Brexit plan, with nearly two-fifths (39 per cent) supporting her proposal to regain full control over how Britain is governed and who can live here, even if that means not having a free trade relationship with the EU. Only 15 per cent of the 1,633 respondents went for a softer option, saying the UK should concede some immigration controls to Brussels in order to secure the best possible trading links with the remaining 27 EU member states. One in ten said Mrs May should seek to remain as close to the EU as possible with some form of associate membership, 23 per cent thought Britain should remain in the bloc despite last summer’s Brexit vote and 13 per cent were not sure what sort of departure the UK should pursue.' http://www.express.co.uk/news/politics/754887/Theresa-May-plans-YouGov-poll-soft-hard-Brexit-immigration-EU-referendum
However what is clear is current Tory and UKIP voters want to leave the single market to control free movement and reduce contributions to Brussels and Labour, LD and SNP voters want to stay in the single market. So if the single market is a priority for you vote for one of the latter parties, it is not that difficult
I agree, there is major cognitive dissonance on the part of the "have cake and eat it" British public. Shortly to be resolved by a car crash Brexit wake up call.
Where are Dan Hannan and Boris Johnson's "we will stay in the single market".
Indeed, for Hannan, it was the EEA. Liars - every one of them.
@thorstenbenner: Juncker's visit to planet May: "#Brexit cannot be a success". FAZ inside story of disastrous London #Brexit dinner makes for great reading. pic.twitter.com/wBMSHCiSBW
@thorstenbenner: Juncker's visit to planet May: "#Brexit cannot be a success". FAZ inside story of disastrous London #Brexit dinner makes for great reading. pic.twitter.com/wBMSHCiSBW
Oh FFS we were told any amount of crap from both sides and they voted the way they did. Get over yourself.
You mean public opinion should "get over itself"...
The polls show public support for the single market and the customs union.
It's not me you're mad at
Depends entirely which poll you look at 'A new YouGov survey published yesterday will boost the Prime Minister’s confidence in her Brexit plan, with nearly two-fifths (39 per cent) supporting her proposal to regain full control over how Britain is governed and who can live here, even if that means not having a free trade relationship with the EU. Only 15 per cent of the 1,633 respondents went for a softer option, saying the UK should concede some immigration controls to Brussels in order to secure the best possible trading links with the remaining 27 EU member states. One in ten said Mrs May should seek to remain as close to the EU as possible with some form of associate membership, 23 per cent thought Britain should remain in the bloc despite last summer’s Brexit vote and 13 per cent were not sure what sort of departure the UK should pursue.' http://www.express.co.uk/news/politics/754887/Theresa-May-plans-YouGov-poll-soft-hard-Brexit-immigration-EU-referendum
However what is clear is current Tory and UKIP voters want to leave the single market to control free movement and reduce contributions to Brussels and Labour, LD and SNP voters want to stay in the single market. So if the single market is a priority for you vote for one of the latter parties, it is not that difficult
I agree, there is major cognitive dissonance on the part of the "have cake and eat it" British public. Shortly to be resolved by a car crash Brexit wake up call.
Where are Dan Hannan and Boris Johnson's "we will stay in the single market".
They assumed that the losers would accept their defeat and work with them for an EEA type solution.
Team Corbyn don't just have some crazy ideas and want to have another go at failed 70s policies, they are genuinely thick as shit. I actually don't think they could run the country, they are worse than Trump.
Blair and co, lots of things, definitely not thick.
Bet365 are still out on something of a limb with their 5/6 OVER/UNDER quote for Total Tory Seats at 394.5, equivalent to a Blue Team majority of 139 ..... a big ask imho, but DYOR.
This compares with Ladbrokes' pitch at 388.5 and, surprisingly, Coral, its sister company's quote, fully 10 seats lower at 378.5. Cleary Shadsy doesn't yet have full control of the merged group's entire political odds setting team.
1) Give all workers equal rights from day one, whether part-time or full-time, temporary or permanent – so that all workers have the same rights and protections whatever kind of job they have
2) Ban zero hours contracts – so that every worker gets a guaranteed number of hours each week
3) Ensure that any employer wishing to recruit labour from abroad does not undercut workers at home – because it causes divisions when one workforce is used against another
4) Repeal the Trade Union Act and roll out sectoral collective bargaining – because the most effective way to maintain good rights at work is through a trade union
5) Guarantee trade unions a right to access workplaces – so that unions can speak to members and potential members
6) Introduce four new Bank Holidays – we’ll bring our country together with new holidays to mark our four national patron saints’ days, so that workers in Britain get the same proper breaks as in other countries.
7) Raise the minimum wage to the level of the living wage (expected to be at least £10 per hour by 2020) – so that no one in work gets poverty pay
8) End the public sector pay cap – because public sector wages have fallen and our public sector workers deserve a pay rise
9) Amend the takeover code to ensure every takeover proposal has a clear plan in place to protect workers and pensioners – because workers shouldn’t suffer when a company is sold
10) Roll out maximum pay ratios – of 20:1 in the public sector and companies bidding for public contracts – because it cannot be right that wages at the top keep rising while everyone else’s stagnates
11) Ban unpaid internships – because it’s not fair for some to get a leg up when others can’t afford to
12) Enforce
13) Abolish employment tribunal fees – so that people have access to justice
14) Double paid paternity leave to four weeks and increase paternity pay – because fathers are parents too and deserve to spend more time with their new babies
15) Strengthen protections for women against unfair redundancy – because no one should be penalised for having children
16) Hold a public inquiry into blacklisting – to ensure that blacklisting truly becomes and remains a thing of the past
17) Give equalities reps statutory rights – so they have time to protect workers from discrimination
1*) Reinstate protection against third party harassment – because everyone deserves to be safe at work
19) Use public spending power to drive up standards, including only awarding public contracts to companies which recognise trade unions
20) Introduce a civil enforcement system to ensure compliance with gender pay auditing– so that all workers have fair access to employment and promotion opportunities and are treated fairly at work
Labour manifesto, absolutely bat shit crazy. If you think Brexit aint so good for business, the Supreme Leader will have f##ked way before we even get to Brexit / Not Brexit / WTA rules.
Oh FFS we were told any amount of crap from both sides and they voted the way they did. Get over yourself.
You mean public opinion should "get over itself"...
The polls show public support for the single market and the customs union.
It's not me you're mad at
It really isant and all associated issues involved, and that is sacrosanct.
Hypocritical garbage, and I'm one would be happy to make the concessions necessary for single market access, I think soft brexit is sellable to the public, if not the Tory party or the EU (who as you have been among those gleeful to point out, are interested in punishment)
The more silliness from people like Gina Miller, the less likely compromise will be accepted.
It is rather funny seeing life's winners realise that sometimes things don't go their way...
The more airtime Gina Miller gets, the more people join our side.
If referendum II happened and I was running the Brexit II campaign, I'd put her in all the ads.
The woma
She's a truly despicable, self-serving cretin. Leavers should work together to give her as much airtime as possible.
It was the government that wasted time on the Miller case. They could have introduced and passed the A50 bill in September if May had got on with the job. Indeed delay and confusion has characterised the Governments position all along. Strong and stable? My Arse!
I think it was right that such an important case go to the Supreme Court.
What purpose did it serve ? Except our judges got trashed by the right wing media.
It confirmed a limit to ministerial power in the absence of legislative authority being specific delegated, in an area where the government through it had such authority
One would hope it would lead to clearer drafting in future, but no doubt something will always slip through.
But people criticising the case are dead wrong about it causing a delay, as in fact we met May's timeline just fine
Oh FFS we were told any amount of crap from both sides and they voted the way they did. Get over yourself.
You mean public opinion should "get over itself"...
The polls show public support for the single market and the customs union.
It's not me you're mad at
It really is, because you have an inconsistent view about public opinion. The public voted to leave, but fuck that, even though they were told the Turks were not coming they fell for it and their view can be discounted, but on the single market complexity, oh they definitely know exactly what they want and all associated issues involved, and that is sacrosanct.
Hypocritical garbage, and I'm one would be happy to make the concessions necessary for single market access, I think soft brexit is sellable to the public, if not the Tory party or the EU (who as you have been among those gleeful to point out, are interested in punishment)
The more silliness from people like Gina Miller, the less likely compromise will be accepted.
It is rather funny seeing life's winners realise that sometimes things don't go their way...
The more airtime Gina Miller gets, the more people join our side.
If referendum II happened and I was running the Brexit II campaign, I'd put her in all the ads.
The woman is toxic - the very worst elements of smugness, elitism, arrogance and hypocrisy, all wrapped up in someone who's happy to play the courts and institutions of the country for political gain.
She's a truly despicable, self-serving cretin. Leavers should work together to give her as much airtime as possible.
You nuts brother?
I'm sorry, I fail to see what you find odd about my assertion that Gina Miller is a polarising figure who represents the worst excesses of the metropolitan elite.
She's smug, arrogant and utterly duplitictous - look at her willingness to fund the SNP. The clue, there, is in the NP.
When people like Heseltine and Ken Clarke or hell, even Tony Blair, warn about the dangers of Brexit, they have some gravitas and I listen.
Every time Gina Miller opens her mouth another Brexiteer is created.
Gina Miller is my poster girl - intelligent, good looking and articulate. Far better than many politicians. I love her to bits....
She is a good 'un. Would be more fun for a dinner party than Theresa May.
I wasn't thinking of dinner - but afterwards.
Call me an old romantic. I like a bit of wining and dining first.
Oh FFS we were told any amount of crap from both sides and they voted the way they did. Get over yourself.
You mean public opinion should "get over itself"...
The polls show public support for the single market and the customs union.
It's not me you're mad at
It really is, because you have an inconsistent view about public opinion. The public voted to leave, but fuck that, even though they were told the Turks were not coming they fell for it and their view can be discounted, but on the single market complexity, oh they definitely know exactly what they want and all associated issues involved, and that is sacrosanct.
Hypocritical garbage, and I'm one would be happy to make the concessions necessary for single market access, I think soft brexit is sellable to the public, if not the Tory party or the EU (who as you have been among those gleeful to point out, are interested in punishment)
The more silliness from people like Gina Miller, the less likely compromise will be accepted.
It is rather funny seeing life's winners realise that sometimes things don't go their way...
The more airtime Gina Miller gets, the more people join our side.
If referendum II happened and I was running the Brexit II campaign, I'd put her in all the ads.
The woman is toxic - the very worst elements of smugness, elitism, arrogance and hypocrisy, all wrapped up in someone who's happy to play the courts and institutions of the country for political gain.
She's a truly despicable, self-serving cretin. Leavers should work together to give her as much airtime as possible.
You nuts brother?
I'm sorry, I fail to see what you find odd about my assertion that Gina Miller is a polarising figure who represents the worst excesses of the metropolitan elite.
She's smug, arrogant and utterly duplitictous - look at her willingness to fund the SNP. The clue, there, is in the NP.
When people like Heseltine and Ken Clarke or hell, even Tony Blair, warn about the dangers of Brexit, they have some gravitas and I listen.
Every time Gina Miller opens her mouth another Brexiteer is created.
Gina Miller is my poster girl - intelligent, good looking and articulate. Far better than many politicians. I love her to bits....
You hate democracy too?
Brexit really has driven some posters off the deep end
Overall I agree. It's also contradictory. I mean what happens to support for the single market when FOM is highlighted as a requirement.
The question does explain that the single market means 'free movement of goods, services, money and people between member states'. Although obviously the concept of being a member state without being a member state is problematic...
It is compatible with EFTA/EEA, but May seems to have ruled this out.
Surely if the election is to be a Brexit election as May announced, then we do need to know what form of Brexit she wants. The EU27 have been admirably open about their position.
I increasingly think that May is secretly planning to hold a second referendum once the exit deal is agreed. She'll say that she has obtained the best deal possible by showing the EU that we were totally serious and will then offer the people the choice between that and staying as full members (even if that means losing our opt outs).
It gets her off the hook in so many ways, and would also create a bond of trust between her and the people that would transcend party politics.
If anyone doubted William is spending his time here trolling I offer exhibit A.
Labour manifesto, absolutely bat shit crazy. If you think Brexit aint so good for business, the Supreme Leader will have f##ked way before we even get to Brexit / Not Brexit / WTA rules.
They had fixed a mid-May date for publishing the manifesto, and Ian Lavery was batting away questions on Sunday Politics by saying wait for it. Are they catching the wave of Corbynmania sweeping the nation?
Interesting panel base poll in Scotland - 18-21/04/17
In the UK and out of the EU - 48%
Independent and in the EU - 41%
Independent and out of the EU - 10%
Looks as if Scotland is very divided but surprised in the UK and out of the EU should top the poll
My only concern with that poll is that it contains essentially zero (maybe 1%, depends on rounding) for "in the UK, in the EU", which you would have thought has to be the view of a substantial minority of "No to Independence" voters, especially as that was one of the key messages/arguments from the "No to Independence" camp.
Overall I agree. It's also contradictory. I mean what happens to support for the single market when FOM is highlighted as a requirement.
The question does explain that the single market means 'free movement of goods, services, money and people between member states'. Although obviously the concept of being a member state without being a member state is problematic...
It is compatible with EFTA/EEA, but May seems to have ruled this out.
Surely if the election is to be a Brexit election as May announced, then we do need to know what form of Brexit she wants. The EU27 have been admirably open about their position.
I increasingly think that May is secretly planning to hold a second referendum once the exit deal is agreed. She'll say that she has obtained the best deal possible by showing the EU that we were totally serious and will then offer the people the choice between that and staying as full members (even if that means losing our opt outs).
It gets her off the hook in so many ways, and would also create a bond of trust between her and the people that would transcend party politics.
If anyone doubted William is spending his time here trolling I offer exhibit A.
Even nick Clegg wouldn't spout that garbage.
You'e assuming that continuing as a full member would be an available option. I doubt that very much .... it would cost - big time, pour encourager les autres.
Brexit really has driven some posters off the deep end
There is anger and bitterness from many remainers and if they have are so into the EU you can understand it.
However, in 2 - 4 years this matter will be resolved, with compromise on all sides, and maybe it is better if we just let Theresa May get on with it and see where it takes us. Really there is no other choice
Read the link. JackofKent is not a Remoaner, just wants it done competently.
Jack of Kent, aka David Allen Green, also writes a legal blog in the FT and is interesting for being a Eurosceptic-sceptic. He disparages the EU but thinks Brexit is totally bonkers.
1) Give all workers equal rights from day one, whether part-time or full-time, temporary or permanent – so that all workers have the same rights and protections whatever kind of job they have
2) Ban zero hours contracts – so that every worker gets a guaranteed number of hours each week
3) Ensure that any employer wishing to recruit labour from abroad does not undercut workers at home – because it causes divisions when one workforce is used against another
4) Repeal the Trade Union Act and roll out sectoral collective bargaining – because the most effective way to maintain good rights at work is through a trade union
5) Guarantee trade unions a right to access workplaces – so that unions can speak to members and potential members
6) Introduce four new Bank Holidays – we’ll bring our country together with new holidays to mark our four national patron saints’ days, so that workers in Britain get the same proper breaks as in other countries.
7) Raise the minimum wage to the level of the living wage (expected to be at least £10 per hour by 2020) – so that no one in work gets poverty pay
8) End the public sector pay cap – because public sector wages have fallen and our public sector workers deserve a pay rise
9) Amend the takeover code to ensure every takeover proposal has a clear plan in place to protect workers and pensioners – because workers shouldn’t suffer when a company is sold
10) Roll out maximum pay ratios – of 20:1 in the public sector and companies bidding for public contracts – because it cannot be right that wages at the top keep rising while everyone else’s stagnates .....
20) Introduce a civil enforcement system to ensure compliance with gender pay auditing– so that all workers have fair access to employment and promotion opportunities and are treated fairly at work
Interesting. Wouldn't 10) prevent government contracts with pretty well all major pharmaceutical, telecoms, computing and defence manufacturers ? Quite apart form the rest of the nonsense.
Interesting panel base poll in Scotland - 18-21/04/17
In the UK and out of the EU - 48%
Independent and in the EU - 41%
Independent and out of the EU - 10%
Looks as if Scotland is very divided but surprised in the UK and out of the EU should top the poll
But how can you be Independent and in the EU?
Whenever you sign an international treaty you give up a little bit of sovereignty (and usually submit to binding arbitration too). To take extreme examples, if you were a signatory of the League of Nations, you were committed by Treaty to go to war if any fellow signatory was invaded; similarly with NATO. Now, you could always abrogate your treaty obligations and not go to war. But you can always opt not to follow the EU Commisionar ruling on the Unified Patent Court.
Now, the level to which sovereignty is abrogated varies by the treaty. I would argue that being EU signatory is at the extreme end. But it's barely more than being a member of NAFTA, where a US ISDS, operating in secret and at the behest of Monsanto, struck down a Quebec law that required labelling of GM produce, for example.
At the end of the day, a country is sovereign if it can unilaterally walk away from a treaty or membership of a body. Hampstead cannot unilaterally declare independence from the UK, for example. The UK, on the other hand, can leave the EU by a simple Act of Parliament repealing the European Communities Act.
Interesting panel base poll in Scotland - 18-21/04/17
In the UK and out of the EU - 48%
Independent and in the EU - 41%
Independent and out of the EU - 10%
Looks as if Scotland is very divided but surprised in the UK and out of the EU should top the poll
Independence 51% - Slave of England 48%
Which of these two collectives of nations devolves power to its members, and which only ever takes more and more away for itself: the United Kingdom, and the European Union.
Now, take your time and have a good think before replying.
At the end of the day, a country is sovereign if it can unilaterally walk away from a treaty or membership of a body. Hampstead cannot unilaterally declare independence from the UK, for example. The UK, on the other hand, can leave the EU by a simple Act of Parliament repealing the European Communities Act.
Interesting panel base poll in Scotland - 18-21/04/17
In the UK and out of the EU - 48%
Independent and in the EU - 41%
Independent and out of the EU - 10%
Looks as if Scotland is very divided but surprised in the UK and out of the EU should top the poll
My only concern with that poll is that it contains essentially zero (maybe 1%, depends on rounding) for "in the UK, in the EU", which you would have thought has to be the view of a substantial minority of "No to Independence" voters, especially as that was one of the key messages/arguments from the "No to Independence" camp.
1. Keep the same levels of spending as the current Conservative plans for two years, with two exceptions: an emergency NHS cash injection over those two years, funded by freezing Corporation Tax and bringing forward the planned spend on lower Corporation Tax over the parliament into those two years. Secondly, using historically low borrowing costs to build affordable housing, using up to 2% of the Green Belt if needs be, and therefore cut the Housing Benefit bill.
2. Create a Health and Care Tax, and legally ring-fence it for the NHS, public health and Social Care, and establish an independent review body to recommend a level of funding that will gradually bring the NHS portion of the spend up to the EU average without reducing funding for social care. Reduce National Insurance so that this is revenue neutral in year 1. Develop plans to make all but a minimum level of social security spending contributory by the end of the following Parliament.
3. Council Tax to be replaced by a Land Value Tax of 1% of the value of homes and land over £75,000. Pensioners and people aged 55+ can choose to defer payment until the property changes hands.
4. In terms of Brexit, aim to negotiate a transitional deal with freedom of movement subject to an annual cap on numbers and only people with job offers being allowed to migrate.
5. End the Barnett formula and introduce a federal UK with only key functions such as defence, foreign policy and monetary policy remaining at the UK level.
6. Introduce regional top-up MPs as in Holyrood to make votes fairer
7. Appoint Boris Johnson as ambassador to Micronesia.
Britain’s most senior EU official has warned that a post-Brexit Britain would have to recognise the rulings of the European court of justice if it wished to maintain the current level of cooperation in countering terrorism and organised crime.
Sir Julian King, the European commissioner responsible for security, said the UK’s security services had become increasingly reliant on shared crime-fighting tools to carry out their work.
Interesting panel base poll in Scotland - 18-21/04/17
In the UK and out of the EU - 48%
Independent and in the EU - 41%
Independent and out of the EU - 10%
Looks as if Scotland is very divided but surprised in the UK and out of the EU should top the poll
My only concern with that poll is that it contains essentially zero (maybe 1%, depends on rounding) for "in the UK, in the EU", which you would have thought has to be the view of a substantial minority of "No to Independence" voters, especially as that was one of the key messages/arguments from the "No to Independence" camp.
Labour has its difficulties with its Leave supporters but Starmer is at least making an attempt to win them back and appeal to both camps.
The LDs have suffered an absolute meltdown of their 2015 supporters who voted leave. Out of a sample of 723 2015 LD voters , You Gov found 222 who voted LD in 2015 and then voted Leave. But those 222 LDs are more likely now to vote Conservative (26%) than LD (24%) with a further 26% DK. The significant Remain support the LDs are picking up has come at the expense of this group, such that the LDs net gain since their 2015 nadir is still quite limited and they are only just touching double figures in a wider political context when they should be doing far better.
I think Farron realises that, and is worried about the impact in particular on all those SW Leave-voting former LD seats, given these comments: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-39761746
Comments
The EU are glad we are going. They don't want us.
There will be no reversal of Brexit - even if we changed our mind. The EU want Brexit more than we do.
Apparently they are desperate for our cash, or something
Labour have launched a 20-point plan which only has 18 points. https://twitter.com/wallaceme/status/858770135447998464
She's smug, arrogant and utterly duplitictous - look at her willingness to fund the SNP. The clue, there, is in the NP.
When people like Heseltine and Ken Clarke or hell, even Tony Blair, warn about the dangers of Brexit, they have some gravitas and I listen.
Every time Gina Miller opens her mouth another Brexiteer is created.
The relief that we are going is palpable in EU countries. There will be parties across Europe when the two year deadline runs out, and they finally get rid of us.
We were the awkward squad who kept blocking them and refused to join in fully with the great project. I think that they suspected it might come to a final parting of the ways when we refused to join the Euro.
I can cook better than that at home with just some tin foil, butter, tarragon and a charcoal grill. Told the waiter, who asked for feedback, that the dish was so bad it would harm the restaurant's reputation. I don't think he had been looking for honesty.
http://jackofkent.com/2017/04/the-three-examples-that-show-may-is-not-getting-on-with-the-job-on-brexit/
If we did go back on the decision, the people would expect us to be at the top table, and that means joining the Euro.
Read the link. JackofKent is not a Remoaner, just wants it done competently.
As I say, she represents the very worst elements of an out of touch and undemocratic elite and the more airtime she is given, the better.
There will also be a possibility to extend the negotiations which there wouldn't have been without holding the election now.
I suspect it will be a few years before we apply again, and by then the North Sea Oil will be gone (either physically, or to Indy Scotland). This makes the £/€ exchange rate more stable. We would only want to reapply if the Eurozone was thrving and the Euro a major reserve currency. Any situation where we would want to rejoin would be because we wanted to hitch onto European success, the primary reason we joined in the first place in the Seventies.
The only Brexit not needing this six months is hard Brexit.
The EU will of course completely ignore this large minority until it's too late.
No polls, apparently - so who's she been caught in bed with?
1) Give all workers equal rights from day one, whether part-time or full-time, temporary or permanent – so that all workers have the same rights and protections whatever kind of job they have
2) Ban zero hours contracts – so that every worker gets a guaranteed number of hours each week
3) Ensure that any employer wishing to recruit labour from abroad does not undercut workers at home – because it causes divisions when one workforce is used against another
4) Repeal the Trade Union Act and roll out sectoral collective bargaining – because the most effective way to maintain good rights at work is through a trade union
5) Guarantee trade unions a right to access workplaces – so that unions can speak to members and potential members
6) Introduce four new Bank Holidays – we’ll bring our country together with new holidays to mark our four national patron saints’ days, so that workers in Britain get the same proper breaks as in other countries.
7) Raise the minimum wage to the level of the living wage (expected to be at least £10 per hour by 2020) – so that no one in work gets poverty pay
8) End the public sector pay cap – because public sector wages have fallen and our public sector workers deserve a pay rise
9) Amend the takeover code to ensure every takeover proposal has a clear plan in place to protect workers and pensioners – because workers shouldn’t suffer when a company is sold
10) Roll out maximum pay ratios – of 20:1 in the public sector and companies bidding for public contracts – because it cannot be right that wages at the top keep rising while everyone else’s stagnates
11) Ban unpaid internships – because it’s not fair for some to get a leg up when others can’t afford to
12) Enforce all workers’ rights to trade union representation at work – so that all workers can be supported when negotiating with their employer
13) Abolish employment tribunal fees – so that people have access to justice
14) Double paid paternity leave to four weeks and increase paternity pay – because fathers are parents too and deserve to spend more time with their new babies
15) Strengthen protections for women against unfair redundancy – because no one should be penalised for having children
16) Hold a public inquiry into blacklisting – to ensure that blacklisting truly becomes and remains a thing of the past
17) Give equalities reps statutory rights – so they have time to protect workers from discrimination
1*) Reinstate protection against third party harassment – because everyone deserves to be safe at work
19) Use public spending power to drive up standards, including only awarding public contracts to companies which recognise trade unions
20) Introduce a civil enforcement system to ensure compliance with gender pay auditing– so that all workers have fair access to employment and promotion opportunities and are treated fairly at work
Indeed, for Hannan, it was the EEA. Liars - every one of them.
Blair and co, lots of things, definitely not thick.
This compares with Ladbrokes' pitch at 388.5 and, surprisingly, Coral, its sister company's quote, fully 10 seats lower at 378.5. Cleary Shadsy doesn't yet have full control of the merged group's entire political odds setting team.
22) Discover unicorns
23) Find Eldorado
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-39761410
I bet he didn't get that in Morrisons !!! Looks bloody horrid to me, what's wrong with a nice summer house, rather than some weird shed on wheels.
https://inews.co.uk/essentials/news/labour-20-point-plan-employment-workplace-policies/
One would hope it would lead to clearer drafting in future, but no doubt something will always slip through.
But people criticising the case are dead wrong about it causing a delay, as in fact we met May's timeline just fine
In the UK and out of the EU - 48%
Independent and in the EU - 41%
Independent and out of the EU - 10%
Looks as if Scotland is very divided but surprised in the UK and out of the EU should top the poll
Even nick Clegg wouldn't spout that garbage.
Bring on series 6.
Thiat s a very fashionable Shepherds hut. They are rather nice, and can be bought from here:
http://www.shepherd-hut.co.uk/index.html
Its not as if he is short of a bob. Sounds pretty good to me.
Brexit really has driven some posters off the deep end
There is anger and bitterness from many remainers and if they have are so into the EU you can understand it.
However, in 2 - 4 years this matter will be resolved, with compromise on all sides, and maybe it is better if we just let Theresa May get on with it and see where it takes us. Really there is no other choice
His stuff is well worth reading
There are only 18 there.
I'll accept your apology for accusing me of lying.
Doubtless the next one will be all about Hastings, hero or villain.
Wouldn't 10) prevent government contracts with pretty well all major pharmaceutical, telecoms, computing and defence manufacturers ?
Quite apart form the rest of the nonsense.
Now, the level to which sovereignty is abrogated varies by the treaty. I would argue that being EU signatory is at the extreme end. But it's barely more than being a member of NAFTA, where a US ISDS, operating in secret and at the behest of Monsanto, struck down a Quebec law that required labelling of GM produce, for example.
At the end of the day, a country is sovereign if it can unilaterally walk away from a treaty or membership of a body. Hampstead cannot unilaterally declare independence from the UK, for example. The UK, on the other hand, can leave the EU by a simple Act of Parliament repealing the European Communities Act.
Now, take your time and have a good think before replying.
Wow.
1. Keep the same levels of spending as the current Conservative plans for two years, with two exceptions: an emergency NHS cash injection over those two years, funded by freezing Corporation Tax and bringing forward the planned spend on lower Corporation Tax over the parliament into those two years. Secondly, using historically low borrowing costs to build affordable housing, using up to 2% of the Green Belt if needs be, and therefore cut the Housing Benefit bill.
2. Create a Health and Care Tax, and legally ring-fence it for the NHS, public health and Social Care, and establish an independent review body to recommend a level of funding that will gradually bring the NHS portion of the spend up to the EU average without reducing funding for social care. Reduce National Insurance so that this is revenue neutral in year 1. Develop plans to make all but a minimum level of social security spending contributory by the end of the following Parliament.
3. Council Tax to be replaced by a Land Value Tax of 1% of the value of homes and land over £75,000. Pensioners and people aged 55+ can choose to defer payment until the property changes hands.
4. In terms of Brexit, aim to negotiate a transitional deal with freedom of movement subject to an annual cap on numbers and only people with job offers being allowed to migrate.
5. End the Barnett formula and introduce a federal UK with only key functions such as defence, foreign policy and monetary policy remaining at the UK level.
6. Introduce regional top-up MPs as in Holyrood to make votes fairer
7. Appoint Boris Johnson as ambassador to Micronesia.
Sir Julian King, the European commissioner responsible for security, said the UK’s security services had become increasingly reliant on shared crime-fighting tools to carry out their work.
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2017/apr/30/brexit-uk-may-have-to-recognise-ecj-court-rulings-to-keep-security-cooperation
Labour published a 20 point plan on their official website with 18 points.
John Rentoul noticed too. https://twitter.com/JohnRentoul/status/858786525831712770
I'm still waiting for an apology from @Pong for his accusing me of lying.
The LDs have suffered an absolute meltdown of their 2015 supporters who voted leave. Out of a sample of 723 2015 LD voters , You Gov found 222 who voted LD in 2015 and then voted Leave. But those 222 LDs are more likely now to vote Conservative (26%) than LD (24%) with a further 26% DK. The significant Remain support the LDs are picking up has come at the expense of this group, such that the LDs net gain since their 2015 nadir is still quite limited and they are only just touching double figures in a wider political context when they should be doing far better.
I think Farron realises that, and is worried about the impact in particular on all those SW Leave-voting former LD seats, given these comments:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-39761746
No doubt WS received similar comments.
:-)