We could (just could) be seeing a shocking realignment in UK politics.
The Northern Labour firewall could absolutely crumble with working class Brexit supporters going to the Tories. There is no way that Cameron could have managed that, even against Corbyn.
Even this extreme lead give Labour near 150 seats.
The question has to be at what level of support does UNS cease to function.
For example if Labour get 15% and the Liberal Democrats 25% surely the latter will, whatever the official figures now, get more seats.
As we saw in Scotland, FPTP doesn't guarantee survival and it can mean defenestration is sudden and brutal. If anyone can do such a disaster, Corbyn can.
FPT @NickPalmer - I left Labour because I could not be a member of a party that whitewashes anti-semitism. However, I joined the Jewish Labour Movement, so I'll get a vote in any leadership election. I'm not an idiot :-)
We could (just could) be seeing a shocking realignment in UK politics.
The Northern Labour firewall could absolutely crumble with working class Brexit supporters going to the Tories. There is no way that Cameron could have managed that, even against Corbyn.
Is this the UK's version of the South going GOP? The North minus inner cities goes Con?
Even this extreme lead give Labour near 150 seats.
I am cautious about these huge poll leads but if they continue the narrative by the media could well push labour towards 20%. Indeed could the Lib Dems out poll labour in England. Extraordinary
UKIP's previously reasonably solid 10-12 suddenly drooping - chance of that reviving if the narrative that a big majority encourages a soft brexit gains traction?
We could (just could) be seeing a shocking realignment in UK politics.
The Northern Labour firewall could absolutely crumble with working class Brexit supporters going to the Tories. There is no way that Cameron could have managed that, even against Corbyn.
Is this the UK's version of the South going GOP? The North minus inner cities goes Con?
And without the North, what point is there for metropolitan supporters to vote for a rump extremist fringe party?
OK, this is getting silly now. I don't mean to sound to a Corbynista, but how can such numbers be possible?
I think with numbers like these in the polls, I'd be looking at the polls' in-house corrections. Whatever needed to be applied in 2015 probably should not be applied with the Cons this far out in front. So if they are correcting for shy/difficult to get hold of Tories, let's strip that out straight away to get to a more realistic figure for the current situation.
Chuka Umunna @ChukaUmunna Theresa May is a disgrace-she called an Election because she rejects the idea of an Opposition in our democracy.We are not some dictatorship
Er, Chuka luv, dictators don't usually call elections.....
They do (most dictators thesedays implicitly accept democracy is a good thing by trying to present with some democratic legitimacy), but they fix them.
Chuka Umunna @ChukaUmunna Theresa May is a disgrace-she called an Election because she rejects the idea of an Opposition in our democracy.We are not some dictatorship
Er, Chuka luv, dictators don't usually call elections.....
Is there any obligation on Corbyn to resign if he does lose 100 or 150 seats?
Seriously, we are used to red-eyed losers resigning on election night. But, Labour’s problems got far worse when a tearful EdM resigned after the election in 2015.
I could imagine Jeremy may stay on to stabilise the ship.
Certainly people used to stay on. Why not dear Jeremy?
My brain is telling me that Labour cannot possibly do as bad as it looks like they will, but the evidence makes that hard.
Amidst all her criticism this morning on R4 she did actually say she wanted people to vote Labour. So defecting later the same day would be truly bizarre.
Carswell must already have a deal with the Tories, which he is cashing in earlier than expected. His evasion of the question about rejoining the Tories a few weeks back gave the game away.
OK, this is getting silly now. I don't mean to sound to a Corbynista, but how can such numbers be possible?
I think with numbers like these in the polls, I'd be looking at the polls' in-house corrections. Whatever needed to be applied in 2015 probably should not be applied with the Cons this far out in front. So if they are correcting for shy/difficult to get hold of Tories, let's strip that out straight away to get to a more realistic figure for the current situation.
Yes, why would there be any shy Tories now? Shy Labour is more likely!
But above all it is an election about fitness to govern. It is the Labour Party’s misfortune – possibly a terminal one – to have been hijacked by the hard Left, which for many years was a tolerated fringe movement but is now in charge.
However, Labour MPs have made their political bed and must now lie in it. But they cannot be allowed to foist upon the country a leader they do not even trust themselves. Moreover, this is a prospect that people must consider if they are tempted to vote for the Liberal Democrats.
OK, this is getting silly now. I don't mean to sound to a Corbynista, but how can such numbers be possible?
I think with numbers like these in the polls, I'd be looking at the polls' in-house corrections. Whatever needed to be applied in 2015 probably should not be applied with the Cons this far out in front. So if they are correcting for shy/difficult to get hold of Tories, let's strip that out straight away to get to a more realistic figure for the current situation.
Yes, why would there be any shy Tories now? Shy Labour is more likely!
Well nobody is admitting they want to vote for corbyn on here...
The Corbyn story is exactly what we needed. That should shake up this BORING election. The PLP can now split in the Commons on a point of principle - that Corbyn has refused to shoulder responsibility for his party, in favour of his own narrow, selfish aims. Split now. Appoint a leader in the Commons. Have a crack at it with Yvette as caretaker leader.
We could (just could) be seeing a shocking realignment in UK politics.
The Northern Labour firewall could absolutely crumble with working class Brexit supporters going to the Tories. There is no way that Cameron could have managed that, even against Corbyn.
Indeed, tonight's BBC vox pop from Bolton even more striking than last night's Newsnight. Diehard labour voters shifting to May, not the Conservatives, but May named explicitly. Really quite extraordinary, Brexit/Corybn combination has broken that generations of voting red tradition.
Given many pollsters hashed 2015 is there any chance they've reset the shy Tory issue?
Betting post:
Constituency to Watch: South Belfast
One of 13 souls who voted no to the election being called, the SDLP's Alasdair McDonnell caused me serious grief and monetary loss in 2015 by hanging on to his seat, complete with one of the lowest vote shares of any winning Westminster candidate in recent history, 24.5% and a 900 vote majority.
I'd be curious on his odds this time round, if he stands. Sinn Fein, based on the Assembly elections did well and may well take a few more votes from the SDLP, but the main challenge is the DUP who lost out in 2015 thanks to a strong showing from the UKIP candidate, a local, well known and popular politician. Those 1900 votes killed the DUP off.
For the DUP to have a chance, they need a proper candidate who can motivate a fairly lazy Unionist vote. Question is, do they have anyone?
Chuka Umunna @ChukaUmunna Theresa May is a disgrace-she called an Election because she rejects the idea of an Opposition in our democracy.We are not some dictatorship
That's the way the cookie crumbles under FPTP. Labour took themselves out of the game and threw themselves into oblivion when they elected Corbyn.
That's not the Conservatives fault anymore than it was Blairs fault that the Tories destroyed themselves and went down to a 180 seat Labour landslide in 1997.
But, the encouraging thing from Labour's perspective is that as FPTP gives so FPTP can take away... And it can do it surprisingly quickly. Ten years from now we might be talking about Labour (or some other party) being on course for a landslide that kicks out the Tories...
We could (just could) be seeing a shocking realignment in UK politics.
The Northern Labour firewall could absolutely crumble with working class Brexit supporters going to the Tories. There is no way that Cameron could have managed that, even against Corbyn.
Is this the UK's version of the South going GOP? The North minus inner cities goes Con?
Unscientific, but I was struck by an interview on BBC News tonight with a working class lady in Bolton. She did not appear to fit the profile of a Cameroon Tory voter at all, or a working-class Thatcherite. But was decided on voting for May this time.
One opinion doesn't mean much, but if that's reflected more widely, we could be looking at the sort of shift you mention.
Hoey to UKIP? Its the long hours of baseless speculation that makes these weeks of GE campaigning so enjoyable.
Vox pop in The Mirror in Wakefield seems to suggest we're seeing the UK equivalent of the Reagan Democrats - general gist is May has delivered, UKIP are now pointless and Jezza is a useless pillock.
Is there any obligation on Corbyn to resign if he does lose 100 or 150 seats?
Seriously, we are used to red-eyed losers resigning on election night. But, Labour’s problems got far worse when a tearful EdM resigned after the election in 2015.
I could imagine Jeremy may stay on to stabilise the ship.
Certainly people used to stay on. Why not dear Jeremy?
If this were Australia, Canada or New Zealand, Corbyn's MPs would remove him just after Parliament is dissolved. But this is Britain so they'll probably wring their hands instead.
Even this extreme lead give Labour near 150 seats.
I am cautious about these huge poll leads but if they continue the narrative by the media could well push labour towards 20%. Indeed could the Lib Dems out poll labour in England. Extraordinary
The LDs won't outpoll Labour, or anywhere close, in England as a whole - but they might very well do it in the South.
OK, this is getting silly now. I don't mean to sound to a Corbynista, but how can such numbers be possible?
Haven't seen tables yet, but (other than noise) main change appears to be a further movement from Ukip to Con, not a complete meltdown of Labour. Ukip haven't been this low with YouGov for a long time, I believe.
It could just be an outlier. If a series of polls reinforces the findings however, then that's another 500,000 to 1,000,000 extra Ukip voters moving into the Tory column. The "Brexit election" already bearing fruit for Theresa May...
Even this extreme lead give Labour near 150 seats.
Doubt it. More likely they get disporportionately shelacked in the "marginals"* whilst holding on where Tories are third or have zero chance.
*marginals here include seats that are never normally considered marginal like North East Bolton.
Maybe. The only way I believe these latest polls is if, conversely, Tories may well be doing great in the marginals, but also piling up votes in safe seats, so won't pressure any moderately large labour seats.
Even this extreme lead give Labour near 150 seats.
The question has to be at what level of support does UNS cease to function.
For example if Labour get 15% and the Liberal Democrats 25% surely the latter will, whatever the official figures now, get more seats.
As we saw in Scotland, FPTP doesn't guarantee survival and it can mean defenestration is sudden and brutal. If anyone can do such a disaster, Corbyn can.
UNS will be next to useless in forecasting this election. There is no reason why any NS should be U. Or indeed N. And using 2015 as a base, when so much has changed since, will be equally misleading.
rBlack ock I am aware of that...I meant going forward now we seemed to have witnessed some unexplainable Tory surge in the polls. A more "normal" (by current standards) would have some in meltdown.
OK, this is getting silly now. I don't mean to sound to a Corbynista, but how can such numbers be possible?
I think with numbers like these in the polls, I'd be looking at the polls' in-house corrections. Whatever needed to be applied in 2015 probably should not be applied with the Cons this far out in front. So if they are correcting for shy/difficult to get hold of Tories, let's strip that out straight away to get to a more realistic figure for the current situation.
Yes, why would there be any shy Tories now? Shy Labour is more likely!
Well nobody is admitting they want to vote for corbyn on here...
A bloke my wife went to school with lives in Morden, keen to vote Labour
However was speaking to a relative of my wife at a funeral today who is a Labour Councillor.
Comments
The Northern Labour firewall could absolutely crumble with working class Brexit supporters going to the Tories. There is no way that Cameron could have managed that, even against Corbyn.
For example if Labour get 15% and the Liberal Democrats 25% surely the latter will, whatever the official figures now, get more seats.
As we saw in Scotland, FPTP doesn't guarantee survival and it can mean defenestration is sudden and brutal. If anyone can do such a disaster, Corbyn can.
Someone pass the smelling salts....
Like it's my fault!
Theresa May = Scipio Africanus
Jeremy Corbyn = Hannibal
He should be an object lesson in hubris and politics
http://ukpollingreport.co.uk/yougov-voting-intention
and postal votes will now be received for the local elections.
This is going to be very, very brutal
Tory -> UKIP -> Independent -> Tory
My brain is telling me that Labour cannot possibly do as bad as it looks like they will, but the evidence makes that hard.
Which Will be higher: SNP share in Scotland or Tory share in England?
Carswell must already have a deal with the Tories, which he is cashing in earlier than expected. His evasion of the question about rejoining the Tories a few weeks back gave the game away.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/opinion/2017/04/19/voters-must-ask-fit-govern-britain/
But above all it is an election about fitness to govern. It is the Labour Party’s misfortune – possibly a terminal one – to have been hijacked by the hard Left, which for many years was a tolerated fringe movement but is now in charge.
However, Labour MPs have made their political bed and must now lie in it. But they cannot be allowed to foist upon the country a leader they do not even trust themselves. Moreover, this is a prospect that people must consider if they are tempted to vote for the Liberal Democrats.
Some will definitely be disappointed if the Tories end up with a maj of only 60-80, silly as that would be.
"They can't possibly lose all those seats."
Really quite extraordinary, Brexit/Corybn combination has broken that generations of voting red tradition.
Betting post:
Constituency to Watch: South Belfast
One of 13 souls who voted no to the election being called, the SDLP's Alasdair McDonnell caused me serious grief and monetary loss in 2015 by hanging on to his seat, complete with one of the lowest vote shares of any winning Westminster candidate in recent history, 24.5% and a 900 vote majority.
I'd be curious on his odds this time round, if he stands. Sinn Fein, based on the Assembly elections did well and may well take a few more votes from the SDLP, but the main challenge is the DUP who lost out in 2015 thanks to a strong showing from the UKIP candidate, a local, well known and popular politician. Those 1900 votes killed the DUP off.
For the DUP to have a chance, they need a proper candidate who can motivate a fairly lazy Unionist vote. Question is, do they have anyone?
That's not the Conservatives fault anymore than it was Blairs fault that the Tories destroyed themselves and went down to a 180 seat Labour landslide in 1997.
But, the encouraging thing from Labour's perspective is that as FPTP gives so FPTP can take away... And it can do it surprisingly quickly. Ten years from now we might be talking about Labour (or some other party) being on course for a landslide that kicks out the Tories...
*marginals here include seats that are never normally considered marginal like North East Bolton.
One opinion doesn't mean much, but if that's reflected more widely, we could be looking at the sort of shift you mention.
Vox pop in The Mirror in Wakefield seems to suggest we're seeing the UK equivalent of the Reagan Democrats - general gist is May has delivered, UKIP are now pointless and Jezza is a useless pillock.
*Creases for PBers of a certain vintage
It may be unfair, but that's life for you.
I am just really struggling to work out what has happened over the past week to move 15% leads to 20%+ leads.
It could just be an outlier. If a series of polls reinforces the findings however, then that's another 500,000 to 1,000,000 extra Ukip voters moving into the Tory column. The "Brexit election" already bearing fruit for Theresa May...
Now back to 1.19 back / 1.22 lay.
Seems odd.
The effect of Blair, Brown & Miliband has been to wreck a functioning party.
However was speaking to a relative of my wife at a funeral today who is a Labour Councillor.
Lets just say he is not overly positive.