What worries me is that nominations haven't closed yet, and the local Lab party is so fractured it's not inconceivable we see another well known and supported local enter the race, for what was quite literally a seat for life for the previous incumbent.
This could yet be a really split 25% win on a low turnout, maybe even the Tories have a chance?
I really agree with all of that. It raises the interesting question as to when does it cease to be reasonable to seek to reverse earlier acts of aggression. Had Nazi Germany been able to hang on to the territories conquered in mid- 1942, would we now - 75 years later - have to accept that such lands belonged to Germany? Would it still be reasonable for a group of other countries to come together to launch an attack on Germany to recover the lost territory by force?
There is a live example from that time period. Russia's claim to the Kaliningrad oblast is based pretty much exclusively on possession. It was previously East Prussia and as such part of Germany. Germany has renounced its claim to East Prussia but, interestingly, Russia has no real positive claim.
But the answer to your final question is unequivocally no. The Helsinki Final Act of 1975 prohibits the use of military force by any state in Europe against any other.
"Article III: Inviolability of Frontiers
The participating states regard as inviolable all one another's frontiers as well as the frontiers of all states in Europe and therefore they will refrain now and in the future from assaulting these frontiers.
Accordingly, they will also refrain from any demand for, or act of, seizure and usurpation of part or all of the territory of any participating State.
Article IV: Territorial Integrity of States
The participating states will respect the territorial integrity of each of the participating states. Accordingly, they will refrain from any action inconsistent with the purposes and principles of the Charter of the United Nations against the territorial integrity, political independence or the unity of any participating state, and in particular from any such action constituting a threat or use of force.
The participating states will likewise refrain from making each other's territory the object of military occupation or other direct or indirect measures of force in contravention of international law, or the object of acquisition by means of such measures or the threat of them. No such occupation or acquisition will be recognized as legal."
Spain is not going to invade Gibraltar.
Accordingly, they will also refrain from any demand for, or act of, seizure and usurpation of part or all of the territory of any participating State.
Someone should tell Spain...
Edit: apparently the articles aren't binding as it is not a treaty.
Oh those Russians. Instead of waging war on Spain we should wage war on Russia.
Let's practice war on Spain first before taking on Russia.
We could call on our Portugese allies, with whom we have never been at war.
I think technically the Spanish are in breach of the peace treaty signed at the end of the Peninsular War (they haven't returned some towns to Portugal). Britain has a reputation for upholding Treaties...
But Gibraltar might still be seen as the product of past British aggression - albeit dating back 300 years.
Spain might be seen as the product of past aggression, seeing as most of it used to belong to the moors...
Who themselves conquered it.
The most homogenous, unified, oldest country and people on earth are the Japanese/Japan by some distance I think.
What about Iceland?
It has barely been a sovereign nation for a hundred years Probably beats Japan on the homogeneity of the population now though.
Indeed, even where foreign service personnel were concerned. Iceland has no army and until 2006 it hosted the "Iceland Defence Force" of the US instead, with an understanding that the US wouldn't send anyone who was black. (Generally respected by the US, with a few exceptions, if anyone wants to quibble.)
The Gibraltarians virtually all want to remain under British sovereignty, and any Spaniards who may have been dispossessed when Britain won control of Gibraltar have been dead for hundreds of years. It makes about as much sense for Spain to keep demanding the return of Gibraltar as it would for us to ask the French to give back Normandy.
Territorial integrity is a strange thing, though.
You might feel differently if, say, the War of the Spanish Succession had gone the other way and the Kingdom of Sicily had consequently been occupying the Isle of Portland for the past 300 years.
Possibly so, but the equivalent of Ceuta and Melilla now (and couple of other little twiddly bits on/off the N African coast) would be the UK not having Portland, but occupying Calais and Cherbourg and still moaning to the Kingdom of Sicily about Portland and the runway they'd built on Chesil Beach.
I think the contradiction in such a position can be maintained thanks to proximity. Gibraltar is right there, with a land border to mainland Spain. Ceuta and Melila are so very far away...
The Gibraltarians virtually all want to remain under British sovereignty, and any Spaniards who may have been dispossessed when Britain won control of Gibraltar have been dead for hundreds of years. It makes about as much sense for Spain to keep demanding the return of Gibraltar as it would for us to ask the French to give back Normandy.
Territorial integrity is a strange thing, though.
You might feel differently if, say, the War of the Spanish Succession had gone the other way and the Kingdom of Sicily had consequently been occupying the Isle of Portland for the past 300 years.
Possibly so, but the equivalent of Ceuta and Melilla now (and couple of other little twiddly bits on/off the N African coast) would be the UK not having Portland, but occupying Calais and Cherbourg and still moaning to the Kingdom of Sicily about Portland and the runway they'd built on Chesil Beach.
I think the contradiction in such a position can be maintained thanks to proximity. Gibraltar is right there, with a land border to mainland Spain. Ceuta and Melila are so very far away...
Oh those Russians. Instead of waging war on Spain we should wage war on Russia.
Let's practice war on Spain first before taking on Russia.
We could call on our Portugese allies, with whom we have never been at war.
I think technically the Spanish are in breach of the peace treaty signed at the end of the Peninsular War (they haven't returned some towns to Portugal). Britain has a reputation for upholding Treaties...
But Gibraltar might still be seen as the product of past British aggression - albeit dating back 300 years.
Much of the borders of Europe are the products of past acts of aggression, many of which were committed much more recently than the early 18th century, of course. You could have a lot of very interesting arguments about which borders should be moved to where, and which groups of people ought to be sent back "where they came from" if you're going to open that particular can of worms.
The Gibraltarians virtually all want to remain under British sovereignty, and any Spaniards who may have been dispossessed when Britain won control of Gibraltar have been dead for hundreds of years. It makes about as much sense for Spain to keep demanding the return of Gibraltar as it would for us to ask the French to give back Normandy.
Yes it really does make you wonder in such a context why people make such a fuss about Israel and its various border claims.
Israel-Palestine is a live issue. There is a question of realism here: how far back do you go?
Perhaps if Scotland votes to go at some point in the future but Edinburgh wants to stay in the UK, then we should simply resurrect the Northumbrian claim to Lothian and keep it?
Nearly all of the population of Kaliningrad was expelled in 1945 and the Russians arranged for Ukrainians to move there against their will. (I'm interested in the subject because some of my family used to live there).
Oh those Russians. Instead of waging war on Spain we should wage war on Russia.
Let's practice war on Spain first before taking on Russia.
We could call on our Portugese allies, with whom we have never been at war.
I think technically the Spanish are in breach of the peace treaty signed at the end of the Peninsular War (they haven't returned some towns to Portugal). Britain has a reputation for upholding Treaties...
But Gibraltar might still be seen as the product of past British aggression - albeit dating back 300 years.
Much of the borders of Europe are the products of past acts of aggression, many of which were committed much more recently than the early 18th century, of course. You could have a lot of very interesting arguments about which borders should be moved to where, and which groups of people ought to be sent back "where they came from" if you're going to open that particular can of worms.
The Gibraltarians virtually all want to remain under British sovereignty, and any Spaniards who may have been dispossessed when Britain won control of Gibraltar have been dead for hundreds of years. It makes about as much sense for Spain to keep demanding the return of Gibraltar as it would for us to ask the French to give back Normandy.
Yes it really does make you wonder in such a context why people make such a fuss about Israel and its various border claims.
Israel-Palestine is a live issue. There is a question of realism here: how far back do you go?
Perhaps if Scotland votes to go at some point in the future but Edinburgh wants to stay in the UK, then we should simply resurrect the Northumbrian claim to Lothian and keep it?
You're not going back far enough. The Votadini were a British tribe. Edinburgh was Welsh before those bloody Germans turned up with their silly Anglo Saxon ways.......
Nearly all of the population of Kaliningrad was expelled in 1945 and the Russians arranged for Ukrainians to move there against their will. (I'm interested in the subject because some of my family used to live there).
When you say 'the Russians', I suspect you mean 'a Georgian'.
The Gibraltarians virtually all want to remain under British sovereignty, and any Spaniards who may have been dispossessed when Britain won control of Gibraltar have been dead for hundreds of years. It makes about as much sense for Spain to keep demanding the return of Gibraltar as it would for us to ask the French to give back Normandy.
Territorial integrity is a strange thing, though.
You might feel differently if, say, the War of the Spanish Succession had gone the other way and the Kingdom of Sicily had consequently been occupying the Isle of Portland for the past 300 years.
Possibly so, but the equivalent of Ceuta and Melilla now (and couple of other little twiddly bits on/off the N African coast) would be the UK not having Portland, but occupying Calais and Cherbourg and still moaning to the Kingdom of Sicily about Portland and the runway they'd built on Chesil Beach.
I think the contradiction in such a position can be maintained thanks to proximity. Gibraltar is right there, with a land border to mainland Spain. Ceuta and Melila are so very far away...
The Gibraltarians virtually all want to remain under British sovereignty, and any Spaniards who may have been dispossessed when Britain won control of Gibraltar have been dead for hundreds of years. It makes about as much sense for Spain to keep demanding the return of Gibraltar as it would for us to ask the French to give back Normandy.
Territorial integrity is a strange thing, though.
You might feel differently if, say, the War of the Spanish Succession had gone the other way and the Kingdom of Sicily had consequently been occupying the Isle of Portland for the past 300 years.
Possibly so, but the equivalent of Ceuta and Melilla now (and couple of other little twiddly bits on/off the N African coast) would be the UK not having Portland, but occupying Calais and Cherbourg and still moaning to the Kingdom of Sicily about Portland and the runway they'd built on Chesil Beach.
I think the contradiction in such a position can be maintained thanks to proximity. Gibraltar is right there, with a land border to mainland Spain. Ceuta and Melila are so very far away...
Oh those Russians. Instead of waging war on Spain we should wage war on Russia.
Let's practice war on Spain first before taking on Russia.
We could call on our Portugese allies, with whom we have never been at war.
I think technically the Spanish are in breach of the peace treaty signed at the end of the Peninsular War (they haven't returned some towns to Portugal). Britain has a reputation for upholding Treaties...
But Gibraltar might still be seen as the product of past British aggression - albeit dating back 300 years.
Much of the borders of Europe are the products of past acts of aggression, many of which were committed much more recently than the early 18th century, of course. You could have a lot of very interesting arguments about which borders should be moved to where, and which groups of people ought to be sent back "where they came from" if you're going to open that particular can of worms.
The Gibraltarians virtually all want to remain under British sovereignty, and any Spaniards who may have been dispossessed when Britain won control of Gibraltar have been dead for hundreds of years. It makes about as much sense for Spain to keep demanding the return of Gibraltar as it would for us to ask the French to give back Normandy.
Yes it really does make you wonder in such a context why people make such a fuss about Israel and its various border claims.
Perhaps because they are making ongoing acts of aggression and in breach of UN resolutions.
It was interesting to see the Helsinki Treaty clauses that Alistair posted a few minutes ago. I would suggest that although obviously Israel is not in Europe, if it wants to be treated as a modern first world state with the support of European countries, it would not be unreasonable to expect it to act in accordance with the spirit of such European accords since they are rightly so important to us.
The Gibraltarians virtually all want to remain under British sovereignty, and any Spaniards who may have been dispossessed when Britain won control of Gibraltar have been dead for hundreds of years. It makes about as much sense for Spain to keep demanding the return of Gibraltar as it would for us to ask the French to give back Normandy.
Territorial integrity is a strange thing, though.
You might feel differently if, say, the War of the Spanish Succession had gone the other way and the Kingdom of Sicily had consequently been occupying the Isle of Portland for the past 300 years.
Possibly so, but the equivalent of Ceuta and Melilla now (and couple of other little twiddly bits on/off the N African coast) would be the UK not having Portland, but occupying Calais and Cherbourg and still moaning to the Kingdom of Sicily about Portland and the runway they'd built on Chesil Beach.
I think the contradiction in such a position can be maintained thanks to proximity. Gibraltar is right there, with a land border to mainland Spain. Ceuta and Melila are so very far away...
Anybody mentioned the Channel Isles yet?
That's different.
That's the original remains of the Duchy of Normandy with its English (now British) offshoot to the north.
Oh those Russians. Instead of waging war on Spain we should wage war on Russia.
Let's practice war on Spain first before taking on Russia.
We could call on our Portugese allies, with whom we have never been at war.
I think technically the Spanish are in breach of the peace treaty signed at the end of the Peninsular War (they haven't returned some towns to Portugal). Britain has a reputation for upholding Treaties...
But Gibraltar might still be seen as the product of past British aggression - albeit dating back 300 years.
Much of the borders of Europe are the products of past acts of aggression, many of which were committed much more recently than the early 18th century, of course. You could have a lot of very interesting arguments about which borders should be moved to where, and which groups of people ought to be sent back "where they came from" if you're going to open that particular can of worms.
The Gibraltarians virtually all want to remain under British sovereignty, and any Spaniards who may have been dispossessed when Britain won control of Gibraltar have been dead for hundreds of years. It makes about as much sense for Spain to keep demanding the return of Gibraltar as it would for us to ask the French to give back Normandy.
I really agree with all of that. It raises the interesting question as to when does it cease to be reasonable to seek to reverse earlier acts of aggression. Had Nazi Germany been able to hang on to the territories conquered in mid- 1942, would we now - 75 years later - have to accept that such lands belonged to Germany? Would it still be reasonable for a group of other countries to come together to launch an attack on Germany to recover the lost territory by force?
Crimea offers a more pertinent example.
Except that the Crimea was handed over voluntarily by Krushchev in the 1950s - effectively a transfer from one USSR republic to another.
What does that have to do with the price of fish? The transfer back certainly wasn't an administrative exercise.
Labour will lose 125 seats in this May's local elections, Lord Hayward predicts. LibDems to gain c100, Tories 100+ (taking seats off Ukip)
Ukip to lose c100 seats in the locals, Lord Robert Hayward adds
That sounds plausible. However, these are *England-only* scores, I assume? It will look a lot worse for Lab (and better for Con / LD / SNP) once you add in the Scottish and Welsh results.
Oh those Russians. Instead of waging war on Spain we should wage war on Russia.
Let's practice war on Spain first before taking on Russia.
We could call on our Portugese allies, with whom we have never been at war.
I think technically the Spanish are in breach of the peace treaty signed at the end of the Peninsular War (they haven't returned some towns to Portugal). Britain has a reputation for upholding Treaties...
But Gibraltar might still be seen as the product of past British aggression - albeit dating back 300 years.
Much of the borders of Europe are the products of past acts of aggression, many of which were committed much more recently than the early 18th century, of course. You could have a lot of very interesting arguments about which borders should be moved to where, and which groups of people ought to be sent back "where they came from" if you're going to open that particular can of worms.
The Gibraltarians virtually all want to remain under British sovereignty, and any Spaniards who may have been dispossessed when Britain won control of Gibraltar have been dead for hundreds of years. It makes about as much sense for Spain to keep demanding the return of Gibraltar as it would for us to ask the French to give back Normandy.
Yes it really does make you wonder in such a context why people make such a fuss about Israel and its various border claims.
Perhaps because they are making ongoing acts of aggression and in breach of UN resolutions.
It was interesting to see the Helsinki Treaty clauses that Alistair posted a few minutes ago. I would suggest that although obviously Israel is not in Europe, if it wants to be treated as a modern first world state with the support of European countries, it would not be unreasonable to expect it to act in accordance with the spirit of such European accords since they are rightly so important to us.
Treaty/schmeaty. It is a territorial dispute ongoing acts of aggression are all part of it. Always have been. Just because it's contemporary we can't start wanting new or different or any rules.
I do agree about the needing to abide by European rules if they want European support, but that's I suppose a decision they've weighed up.
Labour will lose 125 seats in this May's local elections, Lord Hayward predicts. LibDems to gain c100, Tories 100+ (taking seats off Ukip)
Ukip to lose c100 seats in the locals, Lord Robert Hayward adds
That sounds plausible. However, these are *England-only* scores, I assume? It will look a lot worse for Lab (and better for Con / LD / SNP) once you add in the Scottish and Welsh results.
(Oh, and 'Mike and I', surely?)
Yes England only.
Mike and myself works perfectly fine.
It is those who don't know how to use apostrophes that boil my piss, and those that don't understand the Oxford comma.
Oh those Russians. Instead of waging war on Spain we should wage war on Russia.
Let's practice war on Spain first before taking on Russia.
We could call on our Portugese allies, with whom we have never been at war.
I think technically the Spanish are in breach of the peace treaty signed at the end of the Peninsular War (they haven't returned some towns to Portugal). Britain has a reputation for upholding Treaties...
But Gibraltar might still be seen as the product of past British aggression - albeit dating back 300 years.
Much of the borders of Europe are the products of past acts of aggression, many of which were committed much more recently than the early 18th century, of course. You could have a lot of very interesting arguments about which borders should be moved to where, and which groups of people ought to be sent back "where they came from" if you're going to open that particular can of worms.
The Gibraltarians virtually all want to remain under British sovereignty, and any Spaniards who may have been dispossessed when Britain won control of Gibraltar have been dead for hundreds of years. It makes about as much sense for Spain to keep demanding the return of Gibraltar as it would for us to ask the French to give back Normandy.
Yes it really does make you wonder in such a context why people make such a fuss about Israel and its various border claims.
Perhaps because they are making ongoing acts of aggression and in breach of UN resolutions.
It was interesting to see the Helsinki Treaty clauses that Alistair posted a few minutes ago. I would suggest that although obviously Israel is not in Europe, if it wants to be treated as a modern first world state with the support of European countries, it would not be unreasonable to expect it to act in accordance with the spirit of such European accords since they are rightly so important to us.
Treaty/schmeaty. It is a territorial dispute ongoing acts of aggression are all part of it. Always have been. Just because it's contemporary we can't start wanting new or different or any rules.
I do agree about the needing to abide by European rules if they want European support, but that's I suppose a decision they've weighed up.
So you would have no problem then with any of the neighbouring countries attacking Israel and us letting them get on with it? As I remember you were rather exercised about the Russian action in East Ukraine. Is that somehow different?
Labour will lose 125 seats in this May's local elections, Lord Hayward predicts. LibDems to gain c100, Tories 100+ (taking seats off Ukip)
Ukip to lose c100 seats in the locals, Lord Robert Hayward adds
That sounds plausible. However, these are *England-only* scores, I assume? It will look a lot worse for Lab (and better for Con / LD / SNP) once you add in the Scottish and Welsh results.
(Oh, and 'Mike and I', surely?)
Yes England only.
Mike and myself works perfectly fine.
It is those who don't know how to use apostrophes that boil my piss, and those that don't understand the Oxford comma.
Labour will lose 125 seats in this May's local elections, Lord Hayward predicts. LibDems to gain c100, Tories 100+ (taking seats off Ukip)
Ukip to lose c100 seats in the locals, Lord Robert Hayward adds
That sounds plausible. However, these are *England-only* scores, I assume? It will look a lot worse for Lab (and better for Con / LD / SNP) once you add in the Scottish and Welsh results.
(Oh, and 'Mike and I', surely?)
Yes England only.
Mike and myself works perfectly fine.
It is those who don't know how to use apostrophes that boil my piss, and those that don't understand the Oxford comma.
And then again there are those who use "fine" as an adverb!
Labour will lose 125 seats in this May's local elections, Lord Hayward predicts. LibDems to gain c100, Tories 100+ (taking seats off Ukip)
Ukip to lose c100 seats in the locals, Lord Robert Hayward adds
That sounds plausible. However, these are *England-only* scores, I assume? It will look a lot worse for Lab (and better for Con / LD / SNP) once you add in the Scottish and Welsh results.
(Oh, and 'Mike and I', surely?)
Yes England only.
Mike and myself works perfectly fine.
It is those who don't know how to use apostrophes that boil my piss, and those that don't understand the Oxford comma.
And then again there are those who use "fine" as an adverb!
Labour will lose 125 seats in this May's local elections, Lord Hayward predicts. LibDems to gain c100, Tories 100+ (taking seats off Ukip)
Ukip to lose c100 seats in the locals, Lord Robert Hayward adds
That sounds plausible. However, these are *England-only* scores, I assume? It will look a lot worse for Lab (and better for Con / LD / SNP) once you add in the Scottish and Welsh results.
(Oh, and 'Mike and I', surely?)
Since you would not say "Myself rate Lord Hayward very highly" but rather "I rate Lord Hayward very highly" then the correct form is "Mike and I rate Lord Hayward very highly"
Oh those Russians. Instead of waging war on Spain we should wage war on Russia.
Let's practice war on Spain first before taking on Russia.
We could call on our Portugese allies, with whom we have never been at war.
I think technically the Spanish are in breach of the peace treaty signed at the end of the Peninsular War (they haven't returned some towns to Portugal). Britain has a reputation for upholding Treaties...
But Gibraltar might still be seen as the product of past British aggression - albeit dating back 300 years.
Much of the borders of ENormandy.
Yes it really does make you wonder in such a context why people make such a fuss about Israel and its various border claims.
Perhaps because they are making ongoing acts of aggression and in breach of UN resolutions.
It was interesting to see the Helsinki Treaty clauses that Alistair posted a few minutes ago. I would suggest that although obviously Israel is not in Europe, if it wants to be treated as a modern first world state with the support of European countries, it would not be unreasonable to expect it to act in accordance with the spirit of such European accords since they are rightly so important to us.
Treaty/schmeaty. It is a territorial dispute ongoing acts of aggression are all part of it. Always have been. Just because it's contemporary we can't start wanting new or different or any rules.
I do agree about the needing to abide by European rules if they want European support, but that's I suppose a decision they've weighed up.
So you would have no problem then with any of the neighbouring countries attacking Israel and us letting them get on with it? As I remember you were rather exercised about the Russian action in East Ukraine. Is that somehow different?
It's not whether I have a problem or not, it's what is acceptable or what is the way of the world. Neighbouring states have attacked Israel in the past. What if they had won? We would today have a different set of facts on the ground. I'm sure you would be outside the embassy of Egypt to protest that they should reform Israel according to its original UN-determined borders.
You are selectively applying rules and personal preferences, yes and treaties, to the way that the world forms itself and always has. Plus I challenge you (£5 to charity) to find a post where I commented on Ukraine (cue thousands of posts from me on the subject but I really don't remember any).
20 LD 126 UKIP 81 Con 22 Ind & Residents group 6 Green. 1 BNP
How many will Labour lose that aren't in @AndyJS spreadsheet (Only goes up to 25% defenses) ? How many Lab/UKIP seats will be won by a 3rd place or lower party. How many gains by each of the other parties ?
Oh those Russians. Instead of waging war on Spain we should wage war on Russia.
Let's practice war on Spain first before taking on Russia.
We could call on our Portugese allies, with whom we have never been at war.
I think technically the Spanish are in breach of the peace treaty signed at the end of the Peninsular War (they haven't returned some towns to Portugal). Britain has a reputation for upholding Treaties...
But Gibraltar might still be seen as the product of past British aggression - albeit dating back 300 years.
Much of the borders of Europe are the products of past acts of aggression, many of which were committed much more recently than the early 18th century, of course. You could have a lot of very interesting arguments about which borders should be moved to where, and which groups of people ought to be sent back "where they came from" if you're going to open that particular can of worms.
The Gibraltarians virtually all want to remain under British sovereignty, and any Spaniards who may have been dispossessed when Britain won control of Gibraltar have been dead for hundreds of years. It makes about as much sense for Spain to keep demanding the return of Gibraltar as it would for us to ask the French to give back Normandy.
I really agree with all of that. It raises the interesting question as to when does it cease to be reasonable to seek to reverse earlier acts of aggression. Had Nazi Germany been able to hang on to the territories conquered in mid- 1942, would we now - 75 years later - have to accept that such lands belonged to Germany? Would it still be reasonable for a group of other countries to come together to launch an attack on Germany to recover the lost territory by force?
Crimea offers a more pertinent example.
Except that the Crimea was handed over voluntarily by Krushchev in the 1950s - effectively a transfer from one USSR republic to another.
What does that have to do with the price of fish? The transfer back certainly wasn't an administrative exercise.
ok - I had assumed you were referring to the original transfer!
Labour will lose 125 seats in this May's local elections, Lord Hayward predicts. LibDems to gain c100, Tories 100+ (taking seats off Ukip)
Ukip to lose c100 seats in the locals, Lord Robert Hayward adds
That sounds plausible. However, these are *England-only* scores, I assume? It will look a lot worse for Lab (and better for Con / LD / SNP) once you add in the Scottish and Welsh results.
(Oh, and 'Mike and I', surely?)
Yes England only.
Mike and myself works perfectly fine.
It is those who don't know how to use apostrophes that boil my piss, and those that don't understand the Oxford comma.
Labour will lose 125 seats in this May's local elections, Lord Hayward predicts. LibDems to gain c100, Tories 100+ (taking seats off Ukip)
Ukip to lose c100 seats in the locals, Lord Robert Hayward adds
That sounds plausible. However, these are *England-only* scores, I assume? It will look a lot worse for Lab (and better for Con / LD / SNP) once you add in the Scottish and Welsh results.
(Oh, and 'Mike and I', surely?)
Yes England only.
Mike and myself works perfectly fine.
It is those who don't know how to use apostrophes that boil my piss, and those that don't understand the Oxford comma.
And then again there are those who use "fine" as an adverb!
My favourite verb is enjoin, I suspect you know why.
Oh those Russians. Instead of waging war on Spain we should wage war on Russia.
Let's practice war on Spain first before taking on Russia.
We could call on our Portugese allies, with whom we have never been at war.
I think technically the Spanish are in breach of the peace treaty signed at the end of the Peninsular War (they haven't returned some towns to Portugal). Britain has a reputation for upholding Treaties...
But Gibraltar might still be seen as the product of past British aggression - albeit dating back 300 years.
Spain itself is the product of past Christian aggression against the Moorish Iberian peninsular. Gibraltar belonged to the Moors for 750 years. It belonged to Spain for 250 years. Maybe we should give it back to the Arabs.
Indeed, its very name is Arabic, from jabal at-tariq = the mountain of the road (the North Africans, like Cubans, tend to swallow the last consonant, so the 'iq' is silent).
Grr, is it just me, or has Vanilla behaviour when clicking links changed in the last couple of days? Clicking on links always used to open them in a new tab, but now they open in the current tab - which closes the thread. Really annoying. @rcs1000@PBModerator@MikeSmithson is this configurable in the Vanilla console, and if so can we change it back please?
Labour will lose 125 seats in this May's local elections, Lord Hayward predicts. LibDems to gain c100, Tories 100+ (taking seats off Ukip)
Ukip to lose c100 seats in the locals, Lord Robert Hayward adds
That sounds plausible. However, these are *England-only* scores, I assume? It will look a lot worse for Lab (and better for Con / LD / SNP) once you add in the Scottish and Welsh results.
(Oh, and 'Mike and I', surely?)
Yes England only.
Mike and myself works perfectly fine.
It is those who don't know how to use apostrophes that boil my piss, and those that don't understand the Oxford comma.
at school I was taught that the Oxford comma was wrong (although I did not know the name of it until the US court case last week), even though I naturally would add it for clarity.
Spain does at least have a consistent position on national self-determination. They are against it for the Basques, the Catalans, the Falkland Islanders and the Gibraltarians.
Since when do the Gibraltarians, or the Falklanders, or the Ceutans constitute a nation?
Grr, is it just me, or has Vanilla behaviour when clicking links changed in the last couple of days? Clicking on links always used to open them in a new tab, but now they open in the current tab - which closes the thread. Really annoying. @rcs1000@PBModerator@MikeSmithson is this configurable in the Vanilla console, and if so can we change it back please?
If you middle mouse click on a link (or cmd-click on a mac) it'll open in a new tab.
But is it the public comment about not vetoing Scotland, or the EU clause about Gibraltar that's the real cause of the panic?
No - as was explained to you yesterday - that's no change. Sindy will have to apply to join as a new member once its independent....
What was the issue in IndyRef1 was the SNP arguing that somehow there was a 'magic door' through which they could slip out of the UK, straight into the EU (which was garbage, but there you go) - that's what Spain would veto - not that it would arise....
You seem to have invented a new mythical veto in the space of two paragraphs. Please cite a source which shows the Spanish government expressing a view against a fast accession.
The fact is that there is no veto threat and never has been. What has changed is that now they are willing to say so publicly, which undermines a whole plank of 'better together' propaganda.
You mention 'fast accession' - the SNP's argument in Sindyref1 was that it wouldn't have to leave the EU - but perhaps you could clarify what the SNP's current EU plans are?
They are no business or concern of a tax exile on the Channel Islands. You will not have a say or a vote on eth matter so butt out Toom.
1) We should respect the will of Gibraltarans to remain part of the Uk
2) But ignore the will of Scots to remain in the EU
The Scots, English, Welsh and Northern Irish have agreed, to date, to subordinate many issues to the wider British interest and decision making. By being a part of the UK the Scots are agreed to be bound by UK wide, not just Scotland wide decisions.
It may well be that they feel the need to reassess that relationship in the light of this particular UK wide decision. But that is not the same as ignoring their will to remain in the EU - if they had wanted only their will to resolve that issue, they would have left the UK already, and could choose to exit the UK so that sort of thing does not happen again. We're respecting their will to be a part of the UK, and the UK as a whole decided about the EU, we shall now see if they regret the former as a result of the latter.
It's not a directly comparable situation.
When Gibraltar held a wildcat referendum to undermine the British government they forfeited any right to loyalty in return.
Lol - Nicola should definitely hold a wildcat referendum - suggest a North Korean sized victory for yes as everyone else would ignore the vote and campaign.
1) We should respect the will of Gibraltarans to remain part of the Uk
2) But ignore the will of Scots to remain in the EU
Another referendum for Gibraltar
Options
1) In EU, Joint British & Spanish sovereignty, border remains as is. 2) No spanish sovereignty, WALLhard border with Spain. Navy blue Passports, guineas and groats.
Given we haven't a clue about the Irish border, the people of Gibraltar should be bracing themselves to be given to Spain to get a good Brexit deal for the rest of the UK. The needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few.
Hysterical, much?
Santander, fishing and 17 million visitors say Spain will not want to play silly buggers.....
The only hysterical people are Leavers like Lord Howard who wish to send 16 Air Assault Brigade and our Trident subs to The Rock.
You're the one suggesting transfer of sovereignty.....
Which was something foretold by intelligent Remainers like William Hague and myself before the Brexit vote.
A little harsh on William Hague, I'd say....
We're both working class Yorkshiremen who've done good in life.
Grr, is it just me, or has Vanilla behaviour when clicking links changed in the last couple of days? Clicking on links always used to open them in a new tab, but now they open in the current tab - which closes the thread. Really annoying. @rcs1000@PBModerator@MikeSmithson is this configurable in the Vanilla console, and if so can we change it back please?
If you middle mouse click on a link (or cmd-click on a mac) it'll open in a new tab.
Indeed, but a straightforward single click used to do the same. It's horribly annoying and has definitely changed over the weekend. Guido's place suffers from the same problem with their side links, the behaviour navigates their users away from the site they're on already!
Comments
This could yet be a really split 25% win on a low turnout, maybe even the Tories have a chance?
Someone should tell Spain...
Edit: apparently the articles aren't binding as it is not a treaty.
Perhaps if Scotland votes to go at some point in the future but Edinburgh wants to stay in the UK, then we should simply resurrect the Northumbrian claim to Lothian and keep it?
It was interesting to see the Helsinki Treaty clauses that Alistair posted a few minutes ago. I would suggest that although obviously Israel is not in Europe, if it wants to be treated as a modern first world state with the support of European countries, it would not be unreasonable to expect it to act in accordance with the spirit of such European accords since they are rightly so important to us.
That's the original remains of the Duchy of Normandy with its English (now British) offshoot to the north.
(Oh, and 'Mike and I', surely?)
I do agree about the needing to abide by European rules if they want European support, but that's I suppose a decision they've weighed up.
Mike and myself works perfectly fine.
It is those who don't know how to use apostrophes that boil my piss, and those that don't understand the Oxford comma.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b08kys4c
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-north-east-orkney-shetland-39478417
You are selectively applying rules and personal preferences, yes and treaties, to the way that the world forms itself and always has. Plus I challenge you (£5 to charity) to find a post where I commented on Ukraine (cue thousands of posts from me on the subject but I really don't remember any).
20 LD
126 UKIP
81 Con
22 Ind & Residents group
6 Green.
1 BNP
How many will Labour lose that aren't in @AndyJS spreadsheet (Only goes up to 25% defenses) ?
How many Lab/UKIP seats will be won by a 3rd place or lower party.
How many gains by each of the other parties ?
Clicking on links always used to open them in a new tab, but now they open in the current tab - which closes the thread. Really annoying.
@rcs1000 @PBModerator @MikeSmithson is this configurable in the Vanilla console, and if so can we change it back please?
at school I was taught that the Oxford comma was wrong (although I did not know the name of it until the US court case last week), even though I naturally would add it for clarity.
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