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politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » At the last Gorton by-election the Tories, led by the visionar

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    Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 30,820
    edited March 2017

    I wrote a thread in September suggesting that Osborne might be the answer to Brexit; I was thinking on a good cop, bad cop, basis.

    Thing is: I'm not sure he could work under May's strategic direction, and he's not done much to repair trust with the Party.

    I agree on both points, but the first one should, I think, trump all other considerations. Osborne would be ideal in the role of re-building trust with the EU27, and he'd also be ideal in keeping good relations with the US, and with China and India.

    My point, though, is not so much that he should be appointed but that Boris is proving too much of a liability. He should be replaced, if not by Osborne, then by someone else.
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    justin124justin124 Posts: 11,527
    I remember the by election programme that evening very well. On the same day Labour lost Hamilton to Winnie Ewing of the SNP and Leicester South West to the Tories on a very big swing. Sir Edward Boyle was the Tory representative on the BBC TV panel. Labour's small majority in November 1967 was actually still slightly bigger than the margin it had achieved in 1959 and 1955 - which might suggest that the seat had already begun to drift away from the Tories in demographic terms.
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    isamisam Posts: 41,002
    TOPPING said:

    chestnut said:

    TOPPING said:

    chestnut said:

    TGOHF said:

    chestnut said:

    Danny565 said:

    TGOHF said:

    We start from here on the day Brexit. We then start selling Scotch whisky to India and China at zero % tariff.

    Err, tariffs are imposed by the importing country!
    True, there is a case for the UK declaring unilateral free trade (i.e. not imposing any tariffs on any imports whatsoever) but I suspect very difficult to do politically.
    And if the Europeans turn round and say "thanks very much for not putting tariffs on our goods, but we'll be slapping 25% tariffs on you"?
    We reciprocate but are now free to zero rate beyond Europe if we choose.

    This is where the trade balance comes into play. We are a better customer than they are.
    It's almost as if some can't comprehend that we have a massive trade deficit.

    Apparently we aren't allowed to operate preferential trade as an independent nation yet that is the entire argument for the EU.
    We are in a world of complex, integrated trade deals, associations, and interrelated commercial relations.

    And that, without stepping back into the ring for some more sparring, is why leaving the EU is so misconceived.
    That is true but it is unravelling.

    The US is withdrawing and so are we. The perception is that the deals have turned sour and had negative side effects.

    I read the mood as one where similarly minded and similarly wealthy nations are now looking to set up a new club without the downsides.
    A club of like-minded nations you say? Coming together to determine mutually agreed rules of trade between themselves you say?

    ...
    With similar sized economies you say?
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    MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 50,144
    Ruth showing it is an SNP lie that the Tories have six webbed toes....
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    chestnutchestnut Posts: 7,341
    edited March 2017
    TOPPING said:

    chestnut said:

    TOPPING said:

    chestnut said:

    TGOHF said:

    chestnut said:

    Danny565 said:

    TGOHF said:

    We start from here on the day Brexit. We then start selling Scotch whisky to India and China at zero % tariff.

    Err, tariffs are imposed by the importing country!
    True, there is a case for the UK declaring unilateral free trade (i.e. not imposing any tariffs on any imports whatsoever) but I suspect very difficult to do politically.
    And if the Europeans turn round and say "thanks very much for not putting tariffs on our goods, but we'll be slapping 25% tariffs on you"?
    We reciprocate but are now free to zero rate beyond Europe if we choose.

    This is where the trade balance comes into play. We are a better customer than they are.
    It's almost as if some can't comprehend that we have a massive trade deficit.

    Apparently we aren't allowed to operate preferential trade as an independent nation yet that is the entire argument for the EU.
    We are in a world of complex, integrated trade deals, associations, and interrelated commercial relations.

    And that, without stepping back into the ring for some more sparring, is why leaving the EU is so misconceived.
    That is true but it is unravelling.

    The US is withdrawing and so are we. The perception is that the deals have turned sour and had negative side effects.

    I read the mood as one where similarly minded and similarly wealthy nations are now looking to set up a new club without the downsides.
    A club of like-minded nations you say? Coming together to determine mutually agreed rules of trade between themselves you say?

    ...
    Like the EU used to be.

    The problems have arisen with the imperfect designs of;

    a) The Euro zone
    b) Freedom of Movement and the absence of a common immigration and Asylum policy;
    c) The mythical Single Market.

    All three have either pulled together in haste or poorly adapted with expansion. The inability to adjust when problems become evident is one of the most significant downsides of the EU.
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    SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 20,715
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    MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 50,144
    Danny565 said:

    HYUFD said:

    RobD said:

    I think Osborne will be content with those numbers. A huge net 'wrong', but only an MoE change over 2015.

    Does Osbo care? Is he really that bothered about remaining an MP? If so, he has an odd way of going about winning a selection contest.

    (That said, as someone who might well be running at least one selection contest, I can see that his capacity to fundraise would be a net positive).
    Monetarily no, Osborne's not only earning vastly more than backbench MPs but significantly more than May too and in fact he is even outearning his old boss Cameron on the lecture circuit
    I don't know why he doesn't just stand down. Perhaps he's waiting for May to stumble and then to ride to the government's rescue but that seems like wishful thinking. Perhaps he's also waiting to see whether the new boundaries will be implemented. Either way, he'll need to make a call fairly soon - probably within a year.
    He was positioning himself as (as he would see it) the rational alternative to Boris as Foreign Secretary only a few months ago.

    Perhaps he's concluded he isn't going anywhere. He's not going to be Chancellor again, and he's too disliked to become party leader/PM.

    So, barring a black swan, what else is there for him in politics?
    Theresa May should sack Boris and appoint Osborne in his place. Boris does seem to irritate our EU friends to a quite damaging degree, and that is not going to be at all helpful in the negotiations.
    Osborne irritates the British public to a quite damaging degree...
    Yes, the Gogglebox crowd had a pop at him when it was announced he was getting the Editor's job....
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    Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 49,446
    edited March 2017
    Hey, Luke Sandy. May the 4th be with you!
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    FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,292

    Danny565 said:

    HYUFD said:

    RobD said:

    I think Osborne will be content with those numbers. A huge net 'wrong', but only an MoE change over 2015.

    Does Osbo care? Is he really that bothered about remaining an MP? If so, he has an odd way of going about winning a selection contest.

    (That said, as someone who might well be running at least one selection contest, I can see that his capacity to fundraise would be a net positive).
    Monetarily no, Osborne's not only earning vastly more than backbench MPs but significantly more than May too and in fact he is even outearning his old boss Cameron on the lecture circuit
    I don't know why he doesn't just stand down. Perhaps he's waiting for May to stumble and then to ride to the government's rescue but that seems like wishful thinking. Perhaps he's also waiting to see whether the new boundaries will be implemented. Either way, he'll need to make a call fairly soon - probably within a year.
    He was positioning himself as (as he would see it) the rational alternative to Boris as Foreign Secretary only a few months ago.

    Perhaps he's concluded he isn't going anywhere. He's not going to be Chancellor again, and he's too disliked to become party leader/PM.

    So, barring a black swan, what else is there for him in politics?
    Theresa May should sack Boris and appoint Osborne in his place. Boris does seem to irritate our EU friends to a quite damaging degree, and that is not going to be at all helpful in the negotiations.
    Osborne irritates the British public to a quite damaging degree...
    Yes, the Gogglebox crowd had a pop at him when it was announced he was getting the Editor's job....
    Never underestimate the gogglebox opinions, they had Ed pegged as a loser well in advance of the GE.
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    TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 40,261
    It really is a mystery why SLab have found themselves in the position they're in.

    https://twitter.com/BraidenHT/status/846694655450398720
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    CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 59,787
    That won't help the Lib Dems....
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    Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 55,648

    I wrote a thread in September suggesting that Osborne might be the answer to Brexit; I was thinking on a good cop, bad cop, basis.

    Thing is: I'm not sure he could work under May's strategic direction, and he's not done much to repair trust with the Party.

    I agree on both points, but the first one should, I think, trump all other considerations. Osborne would be ideal in the role of re-building trust with the EU27, and he'd also be ideal in keeping good relations with the US, and with China and India.

    My point, though, is not so much that he should be appointed but that Boris is proving too much of a liability. He should be replaced, if not by Osborne, then by someone else.
    I haven't been bowled over by Boris.

    Then again, I don't know what he's been up to behind the scenes.
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    BudGBudG Posts: 711

    Labour have lost almost 11,000 members in the last four weeks as thousands neglected to renew their subscription to the party.

    https://www.politicshome.com/news/uk/political-parties/labour-party/news/84618/labour-membership-falls-thousands-fail-renew

    Armchair Corbynista showing their complete lack of interest in anything other than leadership contests?

    '"About 60 per cent of these people joined to take part in the 2016 leadership election and immediately went into arrears," the report said.

    "The other 40 per cent joined to take part in the 2015 leadership election and didn’t renew their membership after the first year.”'

    So yes, Corbynites leaving after a year or two rather than old-school members getting pissed off.
    I didn't quite understand the arrears comment. Are they saying that people ticked to join the party, in order to vote in the contest, and then never paid any subs (or at least paid the first month and then not again)?

    At one point we were told Labour was making serious money from all the new members.
    Presumably yes, they paid the first installment, voted, and didn't pay another penny.

    I'm sure there are plenty of people who signed up to get a vote and are still members on paper but don't consider themselves to be members or have any intention of renewing.
    Well the 60% who joined in 2016 to take part in the leadership election were not allowed to vote, so one can understand them being pissed off with the Labour Party moving the goalposts to disallow newer members from voting.
  • Options
    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 117,164

    Danny565 said:

    HYUFD said:

    RobD said:

    I think Osborne will be content with those numbers. A huge net 'wrong', but only an MoE change over 2015.

    Does Osbo care? Is he really that bothered about remaining an MP? If so, he has an odd way of going about winning a selection contest.

    (That said, as someone who might well be running at least one selection contest, I can see that his capacity to fundraise would be a net positive).
    Monetarily no, Osborne's not only earning vastly more than backbench MPs but significantly more than May too and in fact he is even outearning his old boss Cameron on the lecture circuit
    I don't know why he doesn't just stand down. Perhaps he's waiting for May to stumble and then to ride to the government's rescue but that seems like wishful thinking. Perhaps he's also waiting to see whether the new boundaries will be implemented. Either way, he'll need to make a call fairly soon - probably within a year.
    He was positioning himself as (as he would see it) the rational alternative to Boris as Foreign Secretary only a few months ago.

    Perhaps he's concluded he isn't going anywhere. He's not going to be Chancellor again, and he's too disliked to become party leader/PM.

    So, barring a black swan, what else is there for him in politics?
    Theresa May should sack Boris and appoint Osborne in his place. Boris does seem to irritate our EU friends to a quite damaging degree, and that is not going to be at all helpful in the negotiations.
    Osborne irritates the British public to a quite damaging degree...
    Yes, the Gogglebox crowd had a pop at him when it was announced he was getting the Editor's job....
    Never underestimate the gogglebox opinions, they had Ed pegged as a loser well in advance of the GE.
    Though Ed's bank balance is nowhere near as big as George's is now
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    Animal_pbAnimal_pb Posts: 608
    Danny565 said:

    That said, I wouldn't be surprised if May sacked Boris in a reshuffle before long. By all accounts, she only appointed him in the first place because she felt to "unify the party" she needed to get one of the top Leavers in post, and she found Michael Gove too beyond the pale. But the party is unified now and she is incredibly popular with the Brexit wing of her party, so job done, no need to keep a Foreign Secretary who only ever drops the government into hot water.

    That said, looking down the Cabinet list, I'm not sure who else would be a suitable FS. Possibly Michael Fallon?

    No, he's being lined up to replace Hammond.
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    Danny565Danny565 Posts: 8,091
    @BRYN_BORANGA 3h3 hours ago
    More
    #BrexitEve. No Santa but thousands of old men will be emptying their sacks. Prob over the #legsit pic.
  • Options
    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 117,164

    I wrote a thread in September suggesting that Osborne might be the answer to Brexit; I was thinking on a good cop, bad cop, basis.

    Thing is: I'm not sure he could work under May's strategic direction, and he's not done much to repair trust with the Party.

    I agree on both points, but the first one should, I think, trump all other considerations. Osborne would be ideal in the role of re-building trust with the EU27, and he'd also be ideal in keeping good relations with the US, and with China and India.

    My point, though, is not so much that he should be appointed but that Boris is proving too much of a liability. He should be replaced, if not by Osborne, then by someone else.
    Boris has a much better relationship with the Trump administration than Osborne could, given the latter's backing of Remain and thinly disguised cheering for Hillary
  • Options
    Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 55,648
    Danny565 said:

    That said, I wouldn't be surprised if May sacked Boris in a reshuffle before long. By all accounts, she only appointed him in the first place because she felt to "unify the party" she needed to get one of the top Leavers in post, and she found Michael Gove too beyond the pale. But the party is unified now and she is incredibly popular with the Brexit wing of her party, so job done, no need to keep a Foreign Secretary who only ever drops the government into hot water.

    That said, looking down the Cabinet list, I'm not sure who else would be a suitable FS. Possibly Michael Fallon?

    Rudd, Hammond, Hunt or Fallon could do it.

    And there a few more junior ministers who could too, but it'd be a big promotion.
  • Options
    Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 30,820

    I haven't been bowled over by Boris.

    Then again, I don't know what he's been up to behind the scenes.

    See page 27 of the Charles Grant paper, which is probably as good a reflection of EU27 opinion as you're likely to get:

    http://www.europarl.europa.eu/RegData/etudes/IDAN/2017/583130/IPOL_IDA(2017)583130_EN.pdf

    Boris is, rightly or wrongly, the focus of bad-feeling between the EU27 and the UK. Sacking him would be symbolic, ironically rather in the same way as Theresa May's sacking of Osborne last year was.
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    Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 55,648

    I haven't been bowled over by Boris.

    Then again, I don't know what he's been up to behind the scenes.

    See page 27 of the Charles Grant paper, which is probably as good a reflection of EU27 opinion as you're likely to get:

    http://www.europarl.europa.eu/RegData/etudes/IDAN/2017/583130/IPOL_IDA(2017)583130_EN.pdf

    Boris is, rightly or wrongly, the focus of bad-feeling between the EU27 and the UK. Sacking him would be symbolic, ironically rather in the same way as Theresa May's sacking of Osborne last year was.
    Very interesting. Thanks.
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    NigelbNigelb Posts: 62,813
    SeanT said:

    Roger said:

    Animal_pb said:

    Roger said:

    FPT

    The most noticable difference the early days of Brexit will make is the complexity of the forms we will have to fill in. This morning I received something which is known as a W-8BEN-E which I understand relates to a small investment I have in the US. It is 10 pages long and a flavour can be seen from question 1 under the title 'status'.

    "Are you a non participating FFI including a limited FFI or an FFI related to a reporting IGA FFI other than a deemed compliant FFI participating FFI or exempt beneficial owner?"

    Imagine the 'Leavers' of Clackton Hartlipool and Stoke who require aids such as 'open other end' on the bottom of milk-bottles grappling with FORMS like this?

    Because once we are on our own this is going to be the norm. Years of non bureaucratic existance will be over. It'll be like dealing with the US every day

    You have to fill in a W-8BEN-E as a private investor? Really? What kind of stuff are you investing in that get caught by the US FATCA regulations?
    I don't even know what the investment is. Possibly a unit trust or even just a part of a unit trust? It's so ridiculous and difficult i'm going to call them up and tell them to sell it whatever it is. It's driving me mad!
    I get the same forms for my US taxes. Insane bureaucracy. America is famous for it.

    You could just about do your own self-employed UK tax forms, with half a brain and Google to help.

    Impossible with America. You have to use an accountant, who will cost you folding money.
    I wonder if there is some freemasonic deal between accountants, the IRS and the American Treasury.
    Yes, but you are at least earning in the US ?

    What's (most) ridiculous about their system is that they claim universal tax jurisdiction. The only other nations that do so, as far as I'm aware, are Eritrea and North Korea.
    They also have the fairly unusual* system of citizenship base tax...

    *
    https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Individual_taxation_systems.png#/media/File:Individual_taxation_systems.png
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    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 117,164

    Danny565 said:

    That said, I wouldn't be surprised if May sacked Boris in a reshuffle before long. By all accounts, she only appointed him in the first place because she felt to "unify the party" she needed to get one of the top Leavers in post, and she found Michael Gove too beyond the pale. But the party is unified now and she is incredibly popular with the Brexit wing of her party, so job done, no need to keep a Foreign Secretary who only ever drops the government into hot water.

    That said, looking down the Cabinet list, I'm not sure who else would be a suitable FS. Possibly Michael Fallon?

    Rudd, Hammond, Hunt or Fallon could do it.

    And there a few more junior ministers who could too, but it'd be a big promotion.
    Once we leave the EU we need someone to sell Britain and Boris is the ideal man for that, he should stay
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    EssexitEssexit Posts: 1,956

    Danny565 said:

    That said, I wouldn't be surprised if May sacked Boris in a reshuffle before long. By all accounts, she only appointed him in the first place because she felt to "unify the party" she needed to get one of the top Leavers in post, and she found Michael Gove too beyond the pale. But the party is unified now and she is incredibly popular with the Brexit wing of her party, so job done, no need to keep a Foreign Secretary who only ever drops the government into hot water.

    That said, looking down the Cabinet list, I'm not sure who else would be a suitable FS. Possibly Michael Fallon?

    Rudd, Hammond, Hunt or Fallon could do it.

    And there a few more junior ministers who could too, but it'd be a big promotion.
    I can think of one talented former Cabinet member currently on the backbenches who could do it, but:
    a) I don't think Boris needs to be replaced
    b) My suggestion would rile people here up something rotten
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    TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 114,584
    edited March 2017
    Essexit said:

    Danny565 said:

    That said, I wouldn't be surprised if May sacked Boris in a reshuffle before long. By all accounts, she only appointed him in the first place because she felt to "unify the party" she needed to get one of the top Leavers in post, and she found Michael Gove too beyond the pale. But the party is unified now and she is incredibly popular with the Brexit wing of her party, so job done, no need to keep a Foreign Secretary who only ever drops the government into hot water.

    That said, looking down the Cabinet list, I'm not sure who else would be a suitable FS. Possibly Michael Fallon?

    Rudd, Hammond, Hunt or Fallon could do it.

    And there a few more junior ministers who could too, but it'd be a big promotion.
    I can think of one talented former Cabinet member currently on the backbenches who could do it, but:
    a) I don't think Boris needs to be replaced
    b) My suggestion would rile people here up something rotten
    Ken Clarke or Nicky Morgan?
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    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 117,164
    edited March 2017

    I haven't been bowled over by Boris.

    Then again, I don't know what he's been up to behind the scenes.

    See page 27 of the Charles Grant paper, which is probably as good a reflection of EU27 opinion as you're likely to get:

    http://www.europarl.europa.eu/RegData/etudes/IDAN/2017/583130/IPOL_IDA(2017)583130_EN.pdf

    Boris is, rightly or wrongly, the focus of bad-feeling between the EU27 and the UK. Sacking him would be symbolic, ironically rather in the same way as Theresa May's sacking of Osborne last year was.
    It is not the Boris factor which will decide how good a deal, if any, we get from the EU but the concessions May is prepared to make on EU migration to the UK and contributions to the EU budget
  • Options
    Animal_pbAnimal_pb Posts: 608

    Essexit said:

    Danny565 said:

    That said, I wouldn't be surprised if May sacked Boris in a reshuffle before long. By all accounts, she only appointed him in the first place because she felt to "unify the party" she needed to get one of the top Leavers in post, and she found Michael Gove too beyond the pale. But the party is unified now and she is incredibly popular with the Brexit wing of her party, so job done, no need to keep a Foreign Secretary who only ever drops the government into hot water.

    That said, looking down the Cabinet list, I'm not sure who else would be a suitable FS. Possibly Michael Fallon?

    Rudd, Hammond, Hunt or Fallon could do it.

    And there a few more junior ministers who could too, but it'd be a big promotion.
    I can think of one talented former Cabinet member currently on the backbenches who could do it, but:
    a) I don't think Boris needs to be replaced
    b) My suggestion would rile people here up something rotten
    Nicky Morgan?
    He said talented.
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    Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 55,648

    I haven't been bowled over by Boris.

    Then again, I don't know what he's been up to behind the scenes.

    See page 27 of the Charles Grant paper, which is probably as good a reflection of EU27 opinion as you're likely to get:

    http://www.europarl.europa.eu/RegData/etudes/IDAN/2017/583130/IPOL_IDA(2017)583130_EN.pdf

    Boris is, rightly or wrongly, the focus of bad-feeling between the EU27 and the UK. Sacking him would be symbolic, ironically rather in the same way as Theresa May's sacking of Osborne last year was.
    This is interesting: "If all goes well, the 27 believe, two years could suffice for the completion of the Article 50 deal and a sketch of the future relationship in a political declaration. That would fit the wording of Article 50, which says the Union should write the withdrawal agreement “taking account of the framework for its future relationship with the Union”. The details of the future relationship could then be negotiated during the transitional phase, after Britain leaves the EU."

    Sort of feels like that'll be where we might get to, with a transitional arrangement covering the interim, which I reckon could be quite long (3-6 years), during which the permanent FTA is resolved, and businesses adjust.
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    Animal_pb said:

    Essexit said:

    Danny565 said:

    That said, I wouldn't be surprised if May sacked Boris in a reshuffle before long. By all accounts, she only appointed him in the first place because she felt to "unify the party" she needed to get one of the top Leavers in post, and she found Michael Gove too beyond the pale. But the party is unified now and she is incredibly popular with the Brexit wing of her party, so job done, no need to keep a Foreign Secretary who only ever drops the government into hot water.

    That said, looking down the Cabinet list, I'm not sure who else would be a suitable FS. Possibly Michael Fallon?

    Rudd, Hammond, Hunt or Fallon could do it.

    And there a few more junior ministers who could too, but it'd be a big promotion.
    I can think of one talented former Cabinet member currently on the backbenches who could do it, but:
    a) I don't think Boris needs to be replaced
    b) My suggestion would rile people here up something rotten
    Nicky Morgan?
    He said talented.
    She did wonders for school standards.


    A real pity that her and Gove are on the backbenches and not in the cabinet as Justice and Education Secretaries
  • Options
    Carolus_RexCarolus_Rex Posts: 1,414
    edited March 2017

    I haven't been bowled over by Boris.

    Then again, I don't know what he's been up to behind the scenes.

    See page 27 of the Charles Grant paper, which is probably as good a reflection of EU27 opinion as you're likely to get:

    http://www.europarl.europa.eu/RegData/etudes/IDAN/2017/583130/IPOL_IDA(2017)583130_EN.pdf

    Boris is, rightly or wrongly, the focus of bad-feeling between the EU27 and the UK. Sacking him would be symbolic, ironically rather in the same way as Theresa May's sacking of Osborne last year was.
    Considering all the pointless fuss after an idle tweet from Donald Trump led a lot of people who should know better to claim he was trying to pick our ambassador to the US, I'm not sure sacking the Foreign Secretary because some EU leaders don't like him sends out a very good signal.
  • Options
    Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 49,446

    I haven't been bowled over by Boris.

    Then again, I don't know what he's been up to behind the scenes.

    See page 27 of the Charles Grant paper, which is probably as good a reflection of EU27 opinion as you're likely to get:

    http://www.europarl.europa.eu/RegData/etudes/IDAN/2017/583130/IPOL_IDA(2017)583130_EN.pdf

    Boris is, rightly or wrongly, the focus of bad-feeling between the EU27 and the UK. Sacking him would be symbolic, ironically rather in the same way as Theresa May's sacking of Osborne last year was.
    Considering all the pointless fuss after an idle tweet from Donald Trump led a lot of people who should know better to claim he was trying to pick our ambassador to the US, I'm not sure sacking the Foreign Secretary because some EU leaders don't like him sends out a very good signal.
    It would be like Churchill sacking Monty in 1944, just because the Germans don't like him :lol:
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    Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 55,648
    HYUFD said:

    I haven't been bowled over by Boris.

    Then again, I don't know what he's been up to behind the scenes.

    See page 27 of the Charles Grant paper, which is probably as good a reflection of EU27 opinion as you're likely to get:

    http://www.europarl.europa.eu/RegData/etudes/IDAN/2017/583130/IPOL_IDA(2017)583130_EN.pdf

    Boris is, rightly or wrongly, the focus of bad-feeling between the EU27 and the UK. Sacking him would be symbolic, ironically rather in the same way as Theresa May's sacking of Osborne last year was.
    It is not the Boris factor which will decide how good a deal, if any, we get from the EU but the concessions May is prepared to make on EU migration to the UK and contributions to the EU budget
    There will be concessions on both.
  • Options
    Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 49,446
    edited March 2017

    Animal_pb said:

    Essexit said:

    Danny565 said:

    That said, I wouldn't be surprised if May sacked Boris in a reshuffle before long. By all accounts, she only appointed him in the first place because she felt to "unify the party" she needed to get one of the top Leavers in post, and she found Michael Gove too beyond the pale. But the party is unified now and she is incredibly popular with the Brexit wing of her party, so job done, no need to keep a Foreign Secretary who only ever drops the government into hot water.

    That said, looking down the Cabinet list, I'm not sure who else would be a suitable FS. Possibly Michael Fallon?

    Rudd, Hammond, Hunt or Fallon could do it.

    And there a few more junior ministers who could too, but it'd be a big promotion.
    I can think of one talented former Cabinet member currently on the backbenches who could do it, but:
    a) I don't think Boris needs to be replaced
    b) My suggestion would rile people here up something rotten
    Nicky Morgan?
    He said talented.
    She did wonders for school standards.


    A real pity that her and Gove are on the backbenches and not in the cabinet as Justice and Education Secretaries
    "A pity that SHE and Gove".

    Your lack of GRAMMAR school education is showing. :)
  • Options
    Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 30,820

    This is interesting: "If all goes well, the 27 believe, two years could suffice for the completion of the Article 50 deal and a sketch of the future relationship in a political declaration. That would fit the wording of Article 50, which says the Union should write the withdrawal agreement “taking account of the framework for its future relationship with the Union”. The details of the future relationship could then be negotiated during the transitional phase, after Britain leaves the EU."

    Sort of feels like that'll be where we might get to, with a transitional arrangement covering the interim, which I reckon could be quite long (3-6 years), during which the permanent FTA is resolved, and businesses adjust.

    Yes, if all goes well, that is what will happen. But both sides have (quite rightly IMO) said that any transitional deal can't be put in place until we have agreement on the broad outline of the final deal. In other words, if the transitional period is for giving time to work out the detail and to put in place any new administrative structures, that's fine, but it can't a fudge for avoiding having to reach agreement on the final deal.
  • Options
    Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 30,820
    edited March 2017

    Considering all the pointless fuss after an idle tweet from Donald Trump led a lot of people who should know better to claim he was trying to pick our ambassador to the US, I'm not sure sacking the Foreign Secretary because some EU leaders don't like him sends out a very good signal.

    It would send out the signal that we are not hostile to the EU27. Sounds a pretty good signal to me, given that we're trying to reach an amicable and mutually-beneficial deal with them.
  • Options
    chestnutchestnut Posts: 7,341

    Essexit said:

    Danny565 said:

    That said, I wouldn't be surprised if May sacked Boris in a reshuffle before long. By all accounts, she only appointed him in the first place because she felt to "unify the party" she needed to get one of the top Leavers in post, and she found Michael Gove too beyond the pale. But the party is unified now and she is incredibly popular with the Brexit wing of her party, so job done, no need to keep a Foreign Secretary who only ever drops the government into hot water.

    That said, looking down the Cabinet list, I'm not sure who else would be a suitable FS. Possibly Michael Fallon?

    Rudd, Hammond, Hunt or Fallon could do it.

    And there a few more junior ministers who could too, but it'd be a big promotion.
    I can think of one talented former Cabinet member currently on the backbenches who could do it, but:
    a) I don't think Boris needs to be replaced
    b) My suggestion would rile people here up something rotten
    Ken Clarke or Nicky Morgan?
    She is contemplating quitting the Tories.
  • Options
    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 117,164

    HYUFD said:

    I haven't been bowled over by Boris.

    Then again, I don't know what he's been up to behind the scenes.

    See page 27 of the Charles Grant paper, which is probably as good a reflection of EU27 opinion as you're likely to get:

    http://www.europarl.europa.eu/RegData/etudes/IDAN/2017/583130/IPOL_IDA(2017)583130_EN.pdf

    Boris is, rightly or wrongly, the focus of bad-feeling between the EU27 and the UK. Sacking him would be symbolic, ironically rather in the same way as Theresa May's sacking of Osborne last year was.
    It is not the Boris factor which will decide how good a deal, if any, we get from the EU but the concessions May is prepared to make on EU migration to the UK and contributions to the EU budget
    There will be concessions on both.
    Most probably, otherwise we go to WTO rules
  • Options
    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 117,164

    Considering all the pointless fuss after an idle tweet from Donald Trump led a lot of people who should know better to claim he was trying to pick our ambassador to the US, I'm not sure sacking the Foreign Secretary because some EU leaders don't like him sends out a very good signal.

    It would send out the signal that we are not hostile to the EU27. Sounds a pretty good signal to me.
    We already did that by picking a Remainer as PM
  • Options
    chestnut said:

    Essexit said:

    Danny565 said:

    That said, I wouldn't be surprised if May sacked Boris in a reshuffle before long. By all accounts, she only appointed him in the first place because she felt to "unify the party" she needed to get one of the top Leavers in post, and she found Michael Gove too beyond the pale. But the party is unified now and she is incredibly popular with the Brexit wing of her party, so job done, no need to keep a Foreign Secretary who only ever drops the government into hot water.

    That said, looking down the Cabinet list, I'm not sure who else would be a suitable FS. Possibly Michael Fallon?

    Rudd, Hammond, Hunt or Fallon could do it.

    And there a few more junior ministers who could too, but it'd be a big promotion.
    I can think of one talented former Cabinet member currently on the backbenches who could do it, but:
    a) I don't think Boris needs to be replaced
    b) My suggestion would rile people here up something rotten
    Ken Clarke or Nicky Morgan?
    She is contemplating quitting the Tories.
    After this story was published Ms Morgan said it was "total rubbish & deliberate mischief making. No 'hint' given whatsoeve

    http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/politics/top-tory-mp-nicky-morgan-10113237
  • Options
    david_herdsondavid_herdson Posts: 17,422
    Interesting. Someone's stirring the pot again in Clacton.

    Banks and losing against Carswell would make an election night by itself.

    https://twitter.com/lowles_nick/status/846287386782945280
  • Options
    mattmatt Posts: 3,789

    Pulpstar said:

    tlg86 said:

    That's quite remarkable when you consider that something like 10% of the country's population was in France.
    Just because the babies were all born in Iceland, it doesn't mean that they were all conceived there.
    They're all cousins anyway :p
    All the kids in Iceland have an app on their phone which when you bump phones with another person it tells you if you are too closely related to get it on or not.
    Introduce that to Norfolk and everyone would be celibate.
    Nope, they'd just have more knowledge.
  • Options
    RobDRobD Posts: 58,990

    Interesting. Someone's stirring the pot again in Clacton.

    Banks and losing against Carswell would make an election night by itself.

    https://twitter.com/lowles_nick/status/846287386782945280

    Or a by election. I think that is one of the seats most at risk in the ongoing investigation.
  • Options
    Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 30,820
    edited March 2017
    HYUFD said:

    Considering all the pointless fuss after an idle tweet from Donald Trump led a lot of people who should know better to claim he was trying to pick our ambassador to the US, I'm not sure sacking the Foreign Secretary because some EU leaders don't like him sends out a very good signal.

    It would send out the signal that we are not hostile to the EU27. Sounds a pretty good signal to me.
    We already did that by picking a Remainer as PM
    That's not how they see it, and in any case they think she is in thrall to the loons. Whether their view is right or wrong is irrelevant, of course, what matters is the political impact of it.

    In any case, I can see that the unique Boris style might be somewhat perplexing to staid Swedes and excitable Frenchmen.
  • Options
    edmundintokyoedmundintokyo Posts: 17,151
    Danny565 said:

    That said, I wouldn't be surprised if May sacked Boris in a reshuffle before long. By all accounts, she only appointed him in the first place because she felt to "unify the party" she needed to get one of the top Leavers in post, and she found Michael Gove too beyond the pale. But the party is unified now and she is incredibly popular with the Brexit wing of her party, so job done, no need to keep a Foreign Secretary who only ever drops the government into hot water.

    It's easy to hold the coalition together before you actually do anything. The tricky part is going to be selling the inevitable compromises that will follow all the brinksmanship and Tough Stands. That's the point where the tabloids will start screaming about sell-outs and ambitious politicians will want to start implying that she's bollocksed it up and they'd have done a better job. She'll want the leading Brexit people tied tightly to whatever she ends up coming up with, so they can't accuse her of betrayal.
  • Options
    Dura_Ace said:

    BETTING... Betway have an interesting bet which is 4/11 for any non-Belgian to win the Tour of Flanders on Sunday. The only Belgian with a realistic chance is Greg van Avermaet who has just flogged himself to oblivion to win E3 Harelbeke and Gent-Wevelgem this week. The Tour of Flanders is the toughest race on the tour so effectively betting that GvA can't win it at 4/11 is great value as he cannot have fully recovered.

    Are Boonen and Phil Gill not riding?
  • Options
    EssexitEssexit Posts: 1,956

    chestnut said:

    Essexit said:

    Danny565 said:

    That said, I wouldn't be surprised if May sacked Boris in a reshuffle before long. By all accounts, she only appointed him in the first place because she felt to "unify the party" she needed to get one of the top Leavers in post, and she found Michael Gove too beyond the pale. But the party is unified now and she is incredibly popular with the Brexit wing of her party, so job done, no need to keep a Foreign Secretary who only ever drops the government into hot water.

    That said, looking down the Cabinet list, I'm not sure who else would be a suitable FS. Possibly Michael Fallon?

    Rudd, Hammond, Hunt or Fallon could do it.

    And there a few more junior ministers who could too, but it'd be a big promotion.
    I can think of one talented former Cabinet member currently on the backbenches who could do it, but:
    a) I don't think Boris needs to be replaced
    b) My suggestion would rile people here up something rotten
    Ken Clarke or Nicky Morgan?
    She is contemplating quitting the Tories.
    After this story was published Ms Morgan said it was "total rubbish & deliberate mischief making. No 'hint' given whatsoeve

    http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/politics/top-tory-mp-nicky-morgan-10113237
    Didn't Carswell say he was '100% UKIP' or something like that around a week ago? Which is not to say that Morgan is contemplating quitting, but no politician would ever be honest about it if they were.
  • Options
    Breaking: Katie Hopkins fails in (first) attempt to obtain permission to appeal decision in @MxJackMonroe case.

    No stay for costs ordered.

    Reason for refusal: Hopkins' application for permission to appeal left too late.

    Judge says permission would have been refused anyway.
  • Options
    RobDRobD Posts: 58,990

    Breaking: Katie Hopkins fails in (first) attempt to obtain permission to appeal decision in @MxJackMonroe case.

    No stay for costs ordered.

    Reason for refusal: Hopkins' application for permission to appeal left too late.

    Judge says permission would have been refused anyway.

    Going to go to the Supreme Court? lol
  • Options
    RobD said:

    Breaking: Katie Hopkins fails in (first) attempt to obtain permission to appeal decision in @MxJackMonroe case.

    No stay for costs ordered.

    Reason for refusal: Hopkins' application for permission to appeal left too late.

    Judge says permission would have been refused anyway.

    Going to go to the Supreme Court? lol
    I'm hoping for an appeal to the CJEU.
  • Options
    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 117,164
    edited March 2017

    HYUFD said:

    Considering all the pointless fuss after an idle tweet from Donald Trump led a lot of people who should know better to claim he was trying to pick our ambassador to the US, I'm not sure sacking the Foreign Secretary because some EU leaders don't like him sends out a very good signal.

    It would send out the signal that we are not hostile to the EU27. Sounds a pretty good signal to me.
    We already did that by picking a Remainer as PM
    That's not how they see it, and in any case they think she in in thrall to the loons. Whether their view is right or wrong is irrelevant, of course, what matters is the political impact of it.

    In any case, I can see that the unique Boris style might be somewhat perplexing to staid Swedes and excitable Frenchmen.
    As I said it is the concessions May will have to make on EU migration and EU budget contributions that will determine whether or not we get a trade deal of some form, not what post Boris has in the Cabinet. May also has to think beyond and Boris is ideally placed to sell post Brexit Britain to the rest of the world, including Trumps USA
  • Options
    Beverley_CBeverley_C Posts: 6,256

    According to The Times in a leaked letter to an SDLP MP, David Davis, the Brexit Secretary, wrote: “If a majority of the people of Northern Ireland were ever to vote to become part of a united Ireland the UK Government will honour its commitment to enable that to happen.”

    He added: “In that event, Northern Ireland would be in a position of becoming part of an existing EU member state, rather than seeking to join the EU as a new independent state.”

    At least he is not advocating the breakup of the UK as a result of Brexit.... :D

    http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-northern-ireland-can-rejoin-eu-reunification-david-davis-stormont-a7653346.html
  • Options
    RobDRobD Posts: 58,990

    According to The Times in a leaked letter to an SDLP MP, David Davis, the Brexit Secretary, wrote: “If a majority of the people of Northern Ireland were ever to vote to become part of a united Ireland the UK Government will honour its commitment to enable that to happen.”

    He added: “In that event, Northern Ireland would be in a position of becoming part of an existing EU member state, rather than seeking to join the EU as a new independent state.”

    At least he is not advocating the breakup of the UK as a result of Brexit.... :D

    http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-northern-ireland-can-rejoin-eu-reunification-david-davis-stormont-a7653346.html
    Isn't that obvious - if NI rejoins Ireland then it would be joining an EU member state (e.g. East Germany). Scotland is not in the same position.
  • Options
    TheWhiteRabbitTheWhiteRabbit Posts: 12,388

    Breaking: Katie Hopkins fails in (first) attempt to obtain permission to appeal decision in @MxJackMonroe case.

    No stay for costs ordered.

    Reason for refusal: Hopkins' application for permission to appeal left too late.

    Judge says permission would have been refused anyway.

    Is that determinative for her negligence lawsuit against her lawyer, I wonder. Genuine question.
  • Options
    MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 50,144

    chestnut said:

    Essexit said:

    Danny565 said:

    That said, I wouldn't be surprised if May sacked Boris in a reshuffle before long. By all accounts, she only appointed him in the first place because she felt to "unify the party" she needed to get one of the top Leavers in post, and she found Michael Gove too beyond the pale. But the party is unified now and she is incredibly popular with the Brexit wing of her party, so job done, no need to keep a Foreign Secretary who only ever drops the government into hot water.

    That said, looking down the Cabinet list, I'm not sure who else would be a suitable FS. Possibly Michael Fallon?

    Rudd, Hammond, Hunt or Fallon could do it.

    And there a few more junior ministers who could too, but it'd be a big promotion.
    I can think of one talented former Cabinet member currently on the backbenches who could do it, but:
    a) I don't think Boris needs to be replaced
    b) My suggestion would rile people here up something rotten
    Ken Clarke or Nicky Morgan?
    She is contemplating quitting the Tories.
    After this story was published Ms Morgan said it was "total rubbish & deliberate mischief making. No 'hint' given whatsoeve

    http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/politics/top-tory-mp-nicky-morgan-10113237
    You can discount any story that says Nicky Morgan is a "top Tory" - unless it was dictated by, er, Nicky Morgan.....
  • Options
    Essexit said:

    chestnut said:

    Essexit said:

    Danny565 said:

    That said, I wouldn't be surprised if May sacked Boris in a reshuffle before long. By all accounts, she only appointed him in the first place because she felt to "unify the party" she needed to get one of the top Leavers in post, and she found Michael Gove too beyond the pale. But the party is unified now and she is incredibly popular with the Brexit wing of her party, so job done, no need to keep a Foreign Secretary who only ever drops the government into hot water.

    That said, looking down the Cabinet list, I'm not sure who else would be a suitable FS. Possibly Michael Fallon?

    Rudd, Hammond, Hunt or Fallon could do it.

    And there a few more junior ministers who could too, but it'd be a big promotion.
    I can think of one talented former Cabinet member currently on the backbenches who could do it, but:
    a) I don't think Boris needs to be replaced
    b) My suggestion would rile people here up something rotten
    Ken Clarke or Nicky Morgan?
    She is contemplating quitting the Tories.
    After this story was published Ms Morgan said it was "total rubbish & deliberate mischief making. No 'hint' given whatsoeve

    http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/politics/top-tory-mp-nicky-morgan-10113237
    Didn't Carswell say he was '100% UKIP' or something like that around a week ago? Which is not to say that Morgan is contemplating quitting, but no politician would ever be honest about it if they were.
    The Continuity Cameron Army/Team Osborne/The Provisional Wing of The One Nation Army aren't going anywhere or defecting.

    Trust me.

    We know George will need us when he becomes Tory leader in the not too distant future.
  • Options
    AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 23,763

    Essexit said:

    chestnut said:

    Essexit said:

    Danny565 said:

    That said, I wouldn't be surprised if May sacked Boris in a reshuffle before long. By all accounts, she only appointed him in the first place because she felt to "unify the party" she needed to get one of the top Leavers in post, and she found Michael Gove too beyond the pale. But the party is unified now and she is incredibly popular with the Brexit wing of her party, so job done, no need to keep a Foreign Secretary who only ever drops the government into hot water.

    That said, looking down the Cabinet list, I'm not sure who else would be a suitable FS. Possibly Michael Fallon?

    Rudd, Hammond, Hunt or Fallon could do it.

    And there a few more junior ministers who could too, but it'd be a big promotion.
    I can think of one talented former Cabinet member currently on the backbenches who could do it, but:
    a) I don't think Boris needs to be replaced
    b) My suggestion would rile people here up something rotten
    Ken Clarke or Nicky Morgan?
    She is contemplating quitting the Tories.
    After this story was published Ms Morgan said it was "total rubbish & deliberate mischief making. No 'hint' given whatsoeve

    http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/politics/top-tory-mp-nicky-morgan-10113237
    Didn't Carswell say he was '100% UKIP' or something like that around a week ago? Which is not to say that Morgan is contemplating quitting, but no politician would ever be honest about it if they were.
    The Continuity Cameron Army/Team Osborne/The Provisional Wing of The One Nation Army aren't going anywhere or defecting.

    Trust me.

    We know George will need us when he becomes Tory leader in the not too distant future.
    has the London Evening Standard imploded so quickly that he needs to go back to the day job?
  • Options
    TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 114,584
    edited March 2017

    Breaking: Katie Hopkins fails in (first) attempt to obtain permission to appeal decision in @MxJackMonroe case.

    No stay for costs ordered.

    Reason for refusal: Hopkins' application for permission to appeal left too late.

    Judge says permission would have been refused anyway.

    Is that determinative for her negligence lawsuit against her lawyer, I wonder. Genuine question.
    Well,

    Hopkins' application for permission to appeal two days too late:

    "the order in this case was sealed two days before her application to me"

    "There comes a point when the lower court no longer has jurisdiction over the case."

    Judge refusing Hopkins' appeal permission application.
  • Options
    Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 55,648

    HYUFD said:

    Considering all the pointless fuss after an idle tweet from Donald Trump led a lot of people who should know better to claim he was trying to pick our ambassador to the US, I'm not sure sacking the Foreign Secretary because some EU leaders don't like him sends out a very good signal.

    It would send out the signal that we are not hostile to the EU27. Sounds a pretty good signal to me.
    We already did that by picking a Remainer as PM
    That's not how they see it, and in any case they think she is in thrall to the loons. Whether their view is right or wrong is irrelevant, of course, what matters is the political impact of it.

    In any case, I can see that the unique Boris style might be somewhat perplexing to staid Swedes and excitable Frenchmen.
    "To be fair to May’s government, many of its senior figures are gradually getting the
    message. But not all of them. When Boris Johnson said in November that the idea of free
    movement being a founding principle of the EU was “a total myth” and “bollocks”, he was
    not only factually wrong but also offensive. The Foreign Secretary was at it again in
    January, when President François Hollande said that Britain’s Brexit deal would have to be
    worse than membership. Johnson quipped that Hollande wanted “to administer punishment
    beatings to anyone who wishes to escape, rather in the manner of some World War Two
    movie” – humour that did not travel well."

    I laughed.
  • Options
    Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 55,648

    Danny565 said:

    That said, I wouldn't be surprised if May sacked Boris in a reshuffle before long. By all accounts, she only appointed him in the first place because she felt to "unify the party" she needed to get one of the top Leavers in post, and she found Michael Gove too beyond the pale. But the party is unified now and she is incredibly popular with the Brexit wing of her party, so job done, no need to keep a Foreign Secretary who only ever drops the government into hot water.

    It's easy to hold the coalition together before you actually do anything. The tricky part is going to be selling the inevitable compromises that will follow all the brinksmanship and Tough Stands. That's the point where the tabloids will start screaming about sell-outs and ambitious politicians will want to start implying that she's bollocksed it up and they'd have done a better job. She'll want the leading Brexit people tied tightly to whatever she ends up coming up with, so they can't accuse her of betrayal.
    This is correct.
  • Options
    FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,292
    SeanT said:
    Shame he is bloody useless in the flesh.
  • Options
    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 117,164

    Essexit said:

    chestnut said:

    Essexit said:

    Danny565 said:

    That said, I wouldn't be surprised if May sacked Boris in a reshuffle before long. By all accounts, she only appointed him in the first place because she felt to "unify the party" she needed to get one of the top Leavers in post, and she found Michael Gove too beyond the pale. But the party is unified now and she is incredibly popular with the Brexit wing of her party, so job done, no need to keep a Foreign Secretary who only ever drops the government into hot water.

    That said, looking down the Cabinet list, I'm not sure who else would be a suitable FS. Possibly Michael Fallon?

    Rudd, Hammond, Hunt or Fallon could do it.

    And there a few more junior ministers who could too, but it'd be a big promotion.
    I can think of one talented former Cabinet member currently on the backbenches who could do it, but:
    a) I don't think Boris needs to be replaced
    b) My suggestion would rile people here up something rotten
    Ken Clarke or Nicky Morgan?
    She is contemplating quitting the Tories.
    After this story was published Ms Morgan said it was "total rubbish & deliberate mischief making. No 'hint' given whatsoeve

    http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/politics/top-tory-mp-nicky-morgan-10113237
    Didn't Carswell say he was '100% UKIP' or something like that around a week ago? Which is not to say that Morgan is contemplating quitting, but no politician would ever be honest about it if they were.
    The Continuity Cameron Army/Team Osborne/The Provisional Wing of The One Nation Army aren't going anywhere or defecting.

    Trust me.

    We know George will need us when he becomes Tory leader in the not too distant future.
    He can't afford the pay cut!
  • Options
    david_herdsondavid_herdson Posts: 17,422
    RobD said:

    Interesting. Someone's stirring the pot again in Clacton.

    Banks and losing against Carswell would make an election night by itself.

    https://twitter.com/lowles_nick/status/846287386782945280

    Or a by election. I think that is one of the seats most at risk in the ongoing investigation.
    Why would there be a by-election when the candidate / campaign being investigated lost?
  • Options

    Essexit said:

    chestnut said:

    Essexit said:

    Danny565 said:

    That said, I wouldn't be surprised if May sacked Boris in a reshuffle before long. By all accounts, she only appointed him in the first place because she felt to "unify the party" she needed to get one of the top Leavers in post, and she found Michael Gove too beyond the pale. But the party is unified now and she is incredibly popular with the Brexit wing of her party, so job done, no need to keep a Foreign Secretary who only ever drops the government into hot water.

    That said, looking down the Cabinet list, I'm not sure who else would be a suitable FS. Possibly Michael Fallon?

    Rudd, Hammond, Hunt or Fallon could do it.

    And there a few more junior ministers who could too, but it'd be a big promotion.
    I can think of one talented former Cabinet member currently on the backbenches who could do it, but:
    a) I don't think Boris needs to be replaced
    b) My suggestion would rile people here up something rotten
    Ken Clarke or Nicky Morgan?
    She is contemplating quitting the Tories.
    After this story was published Ms Morgan said it was "total rubbish & deliberate mischief making. No 'hint' given whatsoeve

    http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/politics/top-tory-mp-nicky-morgan-10113237
    Didn't Carswell say he was '100% UKIP' or something like that around a week ago? Which is not to say that Morgan is contemplating quitting, but no politician would ever be honest about it if they were.
    The Continuity Cameron Army/Team Osborne/The Provisional Wing of The One Nation Army aren't going anywhere or defecting.

    Trust me.

    We know George will need us when he becomes Tory leader in the not too distant future.
    has the London Evening Standard imploded so quickly that he needs to go back to the day job?
    In the next few years The Standard is going to become the greatest, bigly newspaper in the world.
  • Options
    Danny565Danny565 Posts: 8,091

    RobD said:

    Interesting. Someone's stirring the pot again in Clacton.

    Banks and losing against Carswell would make an election night by itself.

    https://twitter.com/lowles_nick/status/846287386782945280

    Or a by election. I think that is one of the seats most at risk in the ongoing investigation.
    Why would there be a by-election when the candidate / campaign being investigated lost?
    The tweet you posted is talking about South Thanet, not Clacton.
  • Options
    FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,292
    edited March 2017
    The Daily Mail has told critics of its front page which pictured Theresa May and Nicola Sturgeon and asked "who won Legs-it" to "get a life!"

    "Is there a rule that says political coverage must be dull or has a po-faced BBC and left-wing commentariat, so obsessed by the Daily Mail, lost all sense of humour… and proportion?"

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-39421279
  • Options
    EssexitEssexit Posts: 1,956

    Essexit said:

    chestnut said:

    Essexit said:

    Danny565 said:

    That said, I wouldn't be surprised if May sacked Boris in a reshuffle before long. By all accounts, she only appointed him in the first place because she felt to "unify the party" she needed to get one of the top Leavers in post, and she found Michael Gove too beyond the pale. But the party is unified now and she is incredibly popular with the Brexit wing of her party, so job done, no need to keep a Foreign Secretary who only ever drops the government into hot water.

    That said, looking down the Cabinet list, I'm not sure who else would be a suitable FS. Possibly Michael Fallon?

    Rudd, Hammond, Hunt or Fallon could do it.

    And there a few more junior ministers who could too, but it'd be a big promotion.
    I can think of one talented former Cabinet member currently on the backbenches who could do it, but:
    a) I don't think Boris needs to be replaced
    b) My suggestion would rile people here up something rotten
    Ken Clarke or Nicky Morgan?
    She is contemplating quitting the Tories.
    After this story was published Ms Morgan said it was "total rubbish & deliberate mischief making. No 'hint' given whatsoeve

    http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/politics/top-tory-mp-nicky-morgan-10113237
    Didn't Carswell say he was '100% UKIP' or something like that around a week ago? Which is not to say that Morgan is contemplating quitting, but no politician would ever be honest about it if they were.
    The Continuity Cameron Army/Team Osborne/The Provisional Wing of The One Nation Army aren't going anywhere or defecting.

    Trust me.

    We know George will need us when he becomes Tory leader in the not too distant future.
    Nicky Morgan probably isn't going anywhere along with the rest of the Cameroon wing, but surely you have to accept that Osborne has chosen to go.
  • Options
    AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 23,763

    Essexit said:

    chestnut said:

    Essexit said:

    Danny565 said:

    That said, I wouldn't be surprised if May sacked Boris in a reshuffle before long. By all accounts, she only appointed him in the first place because she felt to "unify the party" she needed to get one of the top Leavers in post, and she found Michael Gove too beyond the pale. But the party is unified now and she is incredibly popular with the Brexit wing of her party, so job done, no need to keep a Foreign Secretary who only ever drops the government into hot water.

    That said, looking down the Cabinet list, I'm not sure who else would be a suitable FS. Possibly Michael Fallon?

    Rudd, Hammond, Hunt or Fallon could do it.

    And there a few more junior ministers who could too, but it'd be a big promotion.
    I can think of one talented former Cabinet member currently on the backbenches who could do it, but:
    a) I don't think Boris needs to be replaced
    b) My suggestion would rile people here up something rotten
    Ken Clarke or Nicky Morgan?
    She is contemplating quitting the Tories.
    After this story was published Ms Morgan said it was "total rubbish & deliberate mischief making. No 'hint' given whatsoeve

    http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/politics/top-tory-mp-nicky-morgan-10113237
    Didn't Carswell say he was '100% UKIP' or something like that around a week ago? Which is not to say that Morgan is contemplating quitting, but no politician would ever be honest about it if they were.
    The Continuity Cameron Army/Team Osborne/The Provisional Wing of The One Nation Army aren't going anywhere or defecting.

    Trust me.

    We know George will need us when he becomes Tory leader in the not too distant future.
    has the London Evening Standard imploded so quickly that he needs to go back to the day job?
    In the next few years The Standard is going to become the greatest, bigly newspaper in the world.
    chortle

    after two years of Osbone it will aspire to be fish and chip wrappings
  • Options
    Essexit said:

    Essexit said:

    chestnut said:

    Essexit said:

    Danny565 said:

    That said, I wouldn't be surprised if May sacked Boris in a reshuffle before long. By all accounts, she only appointed him in the first place because she felt to "unify the party" she needed to get one of the top Leavers in post, and she found Michael Gove too beyond the pale. But the party is unified now and she is incredibly popular with the Brexit wing of her party, so job done, no need to keep a Foreign Secretary who only ever drops the government into hot water.

    That said, looking down the Cabinet list, I'm not sure who else would be a suitable FS. Possibly Michael Fallon?

    Rudd, Hammond, Hunt or Fallon could do it.

    And there a few more junior ministers who could too, but it'd be a big promotion.
    I can think of one talented former Cabinet member currently on the backbenches who could do it, but:
    a) I don't think Boris needs to be replaced
    b) My suggestion would rile people here up something rotten
    Ken Clarke or Nicky Morgan?
    She is contemplating quitting the Tories.
    After this story was published Ms Morgan said it was "total rubbish & deliberate mischief making. No 'hint' given whatsoeve

    http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/politics/top-tory-mp-nicky-morgan-10113237
    Didn't Carswell say he was '100% UKIP' or something like that around a week ago? Which is not to say that Morgan is contemplating quitting, but no politician would ever be honest about it if they were.
    The Continuity Cameron Army/Team Osborne/The Provisional Wing of The One Nation Army aren't going anywhere or defecting.

    Trust me.

    We know George will need us when he becomes Tory leader in the not too distant future.
    Nicky Morgan probably isn't going anywhere along with the rest of the Cameroon wing, but surely you have to accept that Osborne has chosen to go.
    http://www2.politicalbetting.com/index.php/archives/2016/09/01/george-osborne-the-modern-day-winston-churchill/
  • Options
    FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,292
    I notice the guardian brought out the red flashing live coverage section for this critical story of leg-gate. On the other hand sky are doing some great grown up journalism over the battle for mosul.
  • Options
    EssexitEssexit Posts: 1,956

    Essexit said:

    Essexit said:

    chestnut said:

    Essexit said:

    Danny565 said:

    That said, I wouldn't be surprised if May sacked Boris in a reshuffle before long. By all accounts, she only appointed him in the first place because she felt to "unify the party" she needed to get one of the top Leavers in post, and she found Michael Gove too beyond the pale. But the party is unified now and she is incredibly popular with the Brexit wing of her party, so job done, no need to keep a Foreign Secretary who only ever drops the government into hot water.

    That said, looking down the Cabinet list, I'm not sure who else would be a suitable FS. Possibly Michael Fallon?

    Rudd, Hammond, Hunt or Fallon could do it.

    And there a few more junior ministers who could too, but it'd be a big promotion.
    I can think of one talented former Cabinet member currently on the backbenches who could do it, but:
    a) I don't think Boris needs to be replaced
    b) My suggestion would rile people here up something rotten
    Ken Clarke or Nicky Morgan?
    She is contemplating quitting the Tories.
    After this story was published Ms Morgan said it was "total rubbish & deliberate mischief making. No 'hint' given whatsoeve

    http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/politics/top-tory-mp-nicky-morgan-10113237
    Didn't Carswell say he was '100% UKIP' or something like that around a week ago? Which is not to say that Morgan is contemplating quitting, but no politician would ever be honest about it if they were.
    The Continuity Cameron Army/Team Osborne/The Provisional Wing of The One Nation Army aren't going anywhere or defecting.

    Trust me.

    We know George will need us when he becomes Tory leader in the not too distant future.
    Nicky Morgan probably isn't going anywhere along with the rest of the Cameroon wing, but surely you have to accept that Osborne has chosen to go.
    http://www2.politicalbetting.com/index.php/archives/2016/09/01/george-osborne-the-modern-day-winston-churchill/
    Churchill was exiled to the backbenches. Osborne's seat is disappearing and he's taking other jobs all over the place.
  • Options
    nunununu Posts: 6,024
    GeoffM said:

    RobD said:

    The Guardian going into complete melt-down over the Mail front page is hilarious.

    Hah, they even have a live blog dedicated to it. Utterly ridiculous.
    It's absolutely top trolling!
    https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2017/mar/28/daily-mail-legs-it-front-page-theresa-may-nicola-sturgeon
  • Options
    ‪What a liberal Democrat snowflake Dick Cheney is. ‬

    Cheney: Russian Cyberattack On Election Could Be Viewed As ‘Act Of War’

    There’s “no doubt” Putin “tried to interfere with our fundamental democratic process,” the former vice president says.

    http://m.huffpost.com/us/entry/cheney-russian-hacking-war_us_58d9d67be4b00f68a5ca35ef?section=politics
  • Options
    Carolus_RexCarolus_Rex Posts: 1,414

    Breaking: Katie Hopkins fails in (first) attempt to obtain permission to appeal decision in @MxJackMonroe case.

    No stay for costs ordered.

    Reason for refusal: Hopkins' application for permission to appeal left too late.

    Judge says permission would have been refused anyway.

    Is that determinative for her negligence lawsuit against her lawyer, I wonder. Genuine question.
    Well,

    Hopkins' application for permission to appeal two days too late:

    "the order in this case was sealed two days before her application to me"

    "There comes a point when the lower court no longer has jurisdiction over the case."

    Judge refusing Hopkins' appeal permission application.
    All it means is that she will have ask permission from the Court of Appeal instead.

    Of course, we don't know if her lawyers forgot to ask for permission at the substantive hearing, or if she failed to give them instructions to.
  • Options
    MTimTMTimT Posts: 7,034
    I wonder why this passage from the book I am currently reading (Cognitive Surplus, Clay Shirky) made me immediately think of Trump:

    "because external enemies are such spurs to group solidarity, some groups will anoint paranoid leaders because such people are expert at identifying external threats, thus generating pleasurable group solidarity even when the threats aren't real."

    It explains a lot about why 'fake news' stories can go viral - the sense of being an insider on the scoop and playing your communal part in spreading it.
  • Options
    david_herdsondavid_herdson Posts: 17,422
    Danny565 said:

    RobD said:

    Interesting. Someone's stirring the pot again in Clacton.

    Banks and losing against Carswell would make an election night by itself.

    https://twitter.com/lowles_nick/status/846287386782945280

    Or a by election. I think that is one of the seats most at risk in the ongoing investigation.
    Why would there be a by-election when the candidate / campaign being investigated lost?
    The tweet you posted is talking about South Thanet, not Clacton.
    Oh yes. Silly me. Really shouldn't try and do three things at once.
  • Options
    NormNorm Posts: 1,251
    Much as we tut tut at politicians having 2 jobs it has to be admitted until Brexit the HoC had become a bit of a talking shop with so many real powers devolved to Brussels. Osborne's stance will be less justifiable in the years to come.
  • Options

    ‪What a liberal Democrat snowflake Dick Cheney is. ‬

    Cheney: Russian Cyberattack On Election Could Be Viewed As ‘Act Of War’

    There’s “no doubt” Putin “tried to interfere with our fundamental democratic process,” the former vice president says.

    http://m.huffpost.com/us/entry/cheney-russian-hacking-war_us_58d9d67be4b00f68a5ca35ef?section=politics

    There's speculation in this week's New Scientist that one of Putin's main reasons for allegedly helping to engineer the election of Trump may have been his and his party's climate change denial. A major drive towards the development and use of renewable energy sources and energy conservation could have spelt disaster for a Russian economy dependent on exports of gas and oil, so it is very much in Russia's interest to sabotage any moves in this direction. And, of course, Russia is a country that may actually benefit from a warming climate.
  • Options
    CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    Pulpstar said:

    @Roger What on earth have you 'invested' in though :D ?

    Are you sure you have the right form? My daughter needs to fill in a W8-BEN but it is only one page
  • Options
    chestnutchestnut Posts: 7,341
    UKIP have set out their own six Brexit Tests

    Full border control
    Full maritime rights
    Full completion by 2019
    No divorce payment
    No European jurisdiction or impediment
    WTO seat and free to trade wherever
  • Options
    FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,292
    chestnut said:

    UKIP have set out their own six Brexit Tests

    Full border control
    Full maritime rights
    Full completion by 2019
    No divorce payment
    No European jurisdiction or impediment
    WTO seat and free to trade wherever

    No free PhDs for all?
  • Options
    MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 50,144
    nunu said:

    GeoffM said:

    RobD said:

    The Guardian going into complete melt-down over the Mail front page is hilarious.

    Hah, they even have a live blog dedicated to it. Utterly ridiculous.
    It's absolutely top trolling!
    https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2017/mar/28/daily-mail-legs-it-front-page-theresa-may-nicola-sturgeon
    It really doesn't take much groundbait to get the Po-faced Twat-fish to rise to the surface....
  • Options
    RobDRobD Posts: 58,990

    Danny565 said:

    RobD said:

    Interesting. Someone's stirring the pot again in Clacton.

    Banks and losing against Carswell would make an election night by itself.

    https://twitter.com/lowles_nick/status/846287386782945280

    Or a by election. I think that is one of the seats most at risk in the ongoing investigation.
    Why would there be a by-election when the candidate / campaign being investigated lost?
    The tweet you posted is talking about South Thanet, not Clacton.
    Oh yes. Silly me. Really shouldn't try and do three things at once.
    It's alright, Farage has lost so many by elections it is hard to keep track :smiley:
  • Options
    FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,292
    Brainstorming doesn't work...It's official.

    http://m.slashdot.org/story/324219
  • Options
    John_MJohn_M Posts: 7,503
    TOPPING said:

    chestnut said:

    TOPPING said:

    chestnut said:

    TGOHF said:

    chestnut said:

    Danny565 said:

    TGOHF said:

    We start from here on the day Brexit. We then start selling Scotch whisky to India and China at zero % tariff.

    Err, tariffs are imposed by the importing country!
    True, there is a case for the UK declaring unilateral free trade (i.e. not imposing any tariffs on any imports whatsoever) but I suspect very difficult to do politically.
    And if the Europeans turn round and say "thanks very much for not putting tariffs on our goods, but we'll be slapping 25% tariffs on you"?
    We reciprocate but are now free to zero rate beyond Europe if we choose.

    This is where the trade balance comes into play. We are a better customer than they are.
    It's almost as if some can't comprehend that we have a massive trade deficit.

    Apparently we aren't allowed to operate preferential trade as an independent nation yet that is the entire argument for the EU.
    We are in a world of complex, integrated trade deals, associations, and interrelated commercial relations.

    And that, without stepping back into the ring for some more sparring, is why leaving the EU is so misconceived.
    That is true but it is unravelling.

    The US is withdrawing and so are we. The perception is that the deals have turned sour and had negative side effects.

    I read the mood as one where similarly minded and similarly wealthy nations are now looking to set up a new club without the downsides.
    A club of like-minded nations you say? Coming together to determine mutually agreed rules of trade between themselves you say?

    ...
    If there were no further treaties after the SEA, I would be the most Europhile poster here. I'd make young William Glenn look like Bill Cash.

    PS Free the Plato One! Attica!
  • Options
    MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 50,144
    chestnut said:

    UKIP have set out their own six Brexit Tests

    Full border control
    Full maritime rights
    Full completion by 2019
    No divorce payment
    No European jurisdiction or impediment
    WTO seat and free to trade wherever

    And what, if we don't get all six - we don't leave?
  • Options
    tlg86tlg86 Posts: 25,205
    Typical Guardian, an unusual cricketer appears on the scene and instead of singing his praises for bowling something unusual, they complain about cricketing terminology:

    https://tinyurl.com/lumtuqh
  • Options
    JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 39,072

    ‪What a liberal Democrat snowflake Dick Cheney is. ‬

    Cheney: Russian Cyberattack On Election Could Be Viewed As ‘Act Of War’

    There’s “no doubt” Putin “tried to interfere with our fundamental democratic process,” the former vice president says.

    http://m.huffpost.com/us/entry/cheney-russian-hacking-war_us_58d9d67be4b00f68a5ca35ef?section=politics

    There's speculation in this week's New Scientist that one of Putin's main reasons for allegedly helping to engineer the election of Trump may have been his and his party's climate change denial. A major drive towards the development and use of renewable energy sources and energy conservation could have spelt disaster for a Russian economy dependent on exports of gas and oil, so it is very much in Russia's interest to sabotage any moves in this direction. And, of course, Russia is a country that may actually benefit from a warming climate.
    That's an interesting angle. The energy and anti-sanctions wishes of the Russians are well known; the climate change denial one is less mentioned (although makes sense given Russia's only being kept anywhere near afloat by energy exports).

    Musk must be a target for Russia now in so many ways ...

    Also: to think what Russia might have been with decent leadership.
  • Options
    FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,292
    edited March 2017
    tlg86 said:

    Typical Guardian, an unusual cricketer appears on the scene and instead of singing his praises for bowling something unusual, they complain about cricketing terminology:

    https://tinyurl.com/lumtuqh

    Another example of The Guardian covering the most important issues of the day...who could forget the Thomas the Tank Engine is a racist and a sexist..as of course we can all be trans-racial nowadays.
  • Options
    Carolus_RexCarolus_Rex Posts: 1,414
    edited March 2017

    ‪What a liberal Democrat snowflake Dick Cheney is. ‬

    Cheney: Russian Cyberattack On Election Could Be Viewed As ‘Act Of War’

    There’s “no doubt” Putin “tried to interfere with our fundamental democratic process,” the former vice president says.

    http://m.huffpost.com/us/entry/cheney-russian-hacking-war_us_58d9d67be4b00f68a5ca35ef?section=politics

    There's speculation in this week's New Scientist that one of Putin's main reasons for allegedly helping to engineer the election of Trump may have been his and his party's climate change denial. A major drive towards the development and use of renewable energy sources and energy conservation could have spelt disaster for a Russian economy dependent on exports of gas and oil, so it is very much in Russia's interest to sabotage any moves in this direction. And, of course, Russia is a country that may actually benefit from a warming climate.
    That's an interesting angle. The energy and anti-sanctions wishes of the Russians are well known; the climate change denial one is less mentioned (although makes sense given Russia's only being kept anywhere near afloat by energy exports).

    Musk must be a target for Russia now in so many ways ...

    Also: to think what Russia might have been with decent leadership.
    There is scarcely a point in Russian history, except maybe the mid 18th century, when that last remark wouldn't have been pertinent!

    Edit: my chronology is out there - should have said the late 18th century.
  • Options
    MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 50,144
    tlg86 said:

    Typical Guardian, an unusual cricketer appears on the scene and instead of singing his praises for bowling something unusual, they complain about cricketing terminology:

    https://tinyurl.com/lumtuqh

    Perhaps the Guardian would like to do some polling* in China to see the level of offence taken by the Chinese at a cricketing term (what's cricket?, 99% ask) - rather than assume the enormous slight they perceive.

    "What do you mean, the Chinese don't take offence? Well, THEY BLOODY WELL SHOULD! "Authoritarian bastards....

    *Obviously, I jest. The Guardian has no money....
  • Options
    FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,292

    tlg86 said:

    Typical Guardian, an unusual cricketer appears on the scene and instead of singing his praises for bowling something unusual, they complain about cricketing terminology:

    https://tinyurl.com/lumtuqh

    Perhaps the Guardian would like to do some polling* in China to see the level of offence taken by the Chinese at a cricketing term (what's cricket?, 99% ask) - rather than assume the enormous slight they perceive.

    "What do you mean, the Chinese don't take offence? Well, THEY BLOODY WELL SHOULD! "Authoritarian bastards....

    *Obviously, I jest. The Guardian has no money....
    Its the classic, I am offended on behalf of those people over there that should be offended at what you said.
  • Options
    MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 50,144

    tlg86 said:

    Typical Guardian, an unusual cricketer appears on the scene and instead of singing his praises for bowling something unusual, they complain about cricketing terminology:

    https://tinyurl.com/lumtuqh

    Another example of The Guardian covering the most important issues of the day...who could forget the Thomas the Tank Engine is a racist and a sexist..as of course we can all be trans-racial nowadays.
    In his defence, Thomas claimed he was trains-racial....
  • Options
    JonnyJimmyJonnyJimmy Posts: 2,548
    tlg86 said:

    Typical Guardian, an unusual cricketer appears on the scene and instead of singing his praises for bowling something unusual, they complain about cricketing terminology:

    https://tinyurl.com/lumtuqh

    That's actually quite interesting though. I only knew the history of the Chinaman ball being about the Chinese looking West Indian. It's funny that it seems to have originated in Yorkshire
  • Options
    David_EvershedDavid_Evershed Posts: 6,506

    chestnut said:

    UKIP have set out their own six Brexit Tests

    Full border control
    Full maritime rights
    Full completion by 2019
    No divorce payment
    No European jurisdiction or impediment
    WTO seat and free to trade wherever

    And what, if we don't get all six - we don't leave?
    If we don't get all six Labour will abstain on the final Commons vote.
  • Options
    david_herdsondavid_herdson Posts: 17,422

    ‪What a liberal Democrat snowflake Dick Cheney is. ‬

    Cheney: Russian Cyberattack On Election Could Be Viewed As ‘Act Of War’

    There’s “no doubt” Putin “tried to interfere with our fundamental democratic process,” the former vice president says.

    http://m.huffpost.com/us/entry/cheney-russian-hacking-war_us_58d9d67be4b00f68a5ca35ef?section=politics

    There's speculation in this week's New Scientist that one of Putin's main reasons for allegedly helping to engineer the election of Trump may have been his and his party's climate change denial. A major drive towards the development and use of renewable energy sources and energy conservation could have spelt disaster for a Russian economy dependent on exports of gas and oil, so it is very much in Russia's interest to sabotage any moves in this direction. And, of course, Russia is a country that may actually benefit from a warming climate.
    That's an interesting angle. The energy and anti-sanctions wishes of the Russians are well known; the climate change denial one is less mentioned (although makes sense given Russia's only being kept anywhere near afloat by energy exports).

    Musk must be a target for Russia now in so many ways ...

    Also: to think what Russia might have been with decent leadership.
    There is scarcely a point in Russian history, except maybe the mid 18th century, when that last remark wouldn't have been pertinent!

    Edit: my chronology is out there - should have said the late 18th century.
    Also the early 18th century, under Peter I, and - to a lesser extent, because they had nothing like the power that Catherine and Peter did - the Witte/Stolypin regimes of the late 19th / early 20th century.
  • Options
    EssexitEssexit Posts: 1,956

    tlg86 said:

    Typical Guardian, an unusual cricketer appears on the scene and instead of singing his praises for bowling something unusual, they complain about cricketing terminology:

    https://tinyurl.com/lumtuqh

    Another example of The Guardian covering the most important issues of the day...who could forget the Thomas the Tank Engine is a racist and a sexist..as of course we can all be trans-racial nowadays.
    In his defence, Thomas claimed he was trains-racial....
    Shouldn't that be trainsgender?
  • Options

    chestnut said:

    UKIP have set out their own six Brexit Tests

    Full border control
    Full maritime rights
    Full completion by 2019
    No divorce payment
    No European jurisdiction or impediment
    WTO seat and free to trade wherever

    And what, if we don't get all six - we don't leave?
    They'll make angry comments in the Telegraph

  • Options
    RobDRobD Posts: 58,990
    Essexit said:

    tlg86 said:

    Typical Guardian, an unusual cricketer appears on the scene and instead of singing his praises for bowling something unusual, they complain about cricketing terminology:

    https://tinyurl.com/lumtuqh

    Another example of The Guardian covering the most important issues of the day...who could forget the Thomas the Tank Engine is a racist and a sexist..as of course we can all be trans-racial nowadays.
    In his defence, Thomas claimed he was trains-racial....
    Shouldn't that be trainsgender?
    Your coats, gentlemen. :)
This discussion has been closed.