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politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Even at only 1/2, Macron remains the value bet

SystemSystem Posts: 12,263
edited March 2017 in General

imagepoliticalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Even at only 1/2, Macron remains the value bet

France is no stranger to revolutions. It’s therefore hardly surprising that there’s a ready temptation – particularly after the Brexit vote in the UK and Trump’s election in the US – to seek both contemporary and historic parallels in the possibility of a Le Pen victory in May. Indeed, it’s so tempting that the odds have come quite out of line with the real chances.

Read the full story here


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Comments

  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 124,689
    Le Pen still leads Macron by 1% in the first round in yesterday's OpinionWay
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 124,689
    Trump was also the candidate of the main right of centre party, unlike Le Pen and a referendum vote to leave the EU is not quite the same as an election win for a far right candidate
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 50,289
    Third (really second)! Laying Fillon might be the safer bet?
  • MikeSmithsonMikeSmithson Posts: 7,382
    HYUFD said:

    Le Pen still leads Macron by 1% in the first round in yesterday's OpinionWay

    So what? All that matters is getting into the final two
  • AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340
    edited March 2017
    IanB2 said:

    Third (really second)! Laying Fillon might be the safer bet?

    I don't think laying Fillon is particularly safe. Laying Le Pen is safer than that, in my view. (Of course, no bet is completely safe.)
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 26,292
    edited March 2017
    Thanks David, I still think Fillon has a chance. Macron is not representing one of the traditional parties so I wonder if people will switch back to the Socialists at the last minute? And I'm not convinced that Le Pen is certain to make the final two. Macron would probably win against Fillon, but I don't think it's certain.
  • JohnLoonyJohnLoony Posts: 1,790
    I didn't know much about what Macron actually stands for, so I looked on Wikipedia. It has a load of waffle such as:

    in favor of the free market
    "liberal"
    "neither right nor left"
    "a collective solidarity."
    "I am not a socialist."
    presents himself as both a "leftist" and a "liberal."
    Macron's stated aim is to transcend the left-right divide
    "neither pro-european, eurosceptic nor a federalist in the classical sense"

    which, collectively and cumulatively, is rather off-putting. It's a bit like a Fianna Fáil position of staying in power and managing and fiddling, but not having a proper philosophy. It left me thinking that I would want to vote for Fillon in order to stop Macron getting into the 2nd round, rather than wanting to vote for Fillon in order to stop Le Pen from winning.
  • MonikerDiCanioMonikerDiCanio Posts: 5,792
    JohnLoony said:

    I didn't know much about what Macron actually stands for, so I looked on Wikipedia. It has a load of waffle such as:

    in favor of the free market
    "liberal"
    "neither right nor left"
    "a collective solidarity."
    "I am not a socialist."
    presents himself as both a "leftist" and a "liberal."
    Macron's stated aim is to transcend the left-right divide
    "neither pro-european, eurosceptic nor a federalist in the classical sense"

    which, collectively and cumulatively, is rather off-putting. It's a bit like a Fianna Fáil position of staying in power and managing and fiddling, but not having a proper philosophy. It left me thinking that I would want to vote for Fillon in order to stop Macron getting into the 2nd round, rather than wanting to vote for Fillon in order to stop Le Pen from winning.

    Like you I despise this teacher's pet, Macron. I hope the creep comes a cropper.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,888
    Have we a new thread somewhere, or doesn’t the French election stir people as much as our own?
    Personally I’m still feeling surprised at Donald Trump’s attitude over his Health Care defeat. Why is he ‘blaming’ the Democrats; did he really expect them to co-operate in the evisceration of a flagship Dem policy?
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 43,958

    Have we a new thread somewhere, or doesn’t the French election stir people as much as our own?
    Personally I’m still feeling surprised at Donald Trump’s attitude over his Health Care defeat. Why is he ‘blaming’ the Democrats; did he really expect them to co-operate in the evisceration of a flagship Dem policy?

    We were told that Trump was a great dealmaker, the best; someone who could sell anything to anyone. It turns out he cannot even sell a policy to 'his' own party that they all back ...

    He's learning that all the bluster in the world cannot alter the limits that a president has to work within.
  • TomsToms Posts: 2,478

    Have we a new thread somewhere, or doesn’t the French election stir people as much as our own?
    Personally I’m still feeling surprised at Donald Trump’s attitude over his Health Care defeat. Why is he ‘blaming’ the Democrats; did he really expect them to co-operate in the evisceration of a flagship Dem policy?


    You're being logical.
    This is Trump we're talking about.
    "Trumpworld" is an alternative universe.
  • JackWJackW Posts: 14,787

    Like you I despise this teacher's pet, Macron. I hope the creep comes a cropper.

    Better "teacher's pet" than Putin's pet surely?
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 54,225
    JohnLoony said:

    I didn't know much about what Macron actually stands for, so I looked on Wikipedia. It has a load of waffle such as:

    in favor of the free market
    "liberal"
    "neither right nor left"
    "a collective solidarity."
    "I am not a socialist."
    presents himself as both a "leftist" and a "liberal."
    Macron's stated aim is to transcend the left-right divide
    "neither pro-european, eurosceptic nor a federalist in the classical sense"

    which, collectively and cumulatively, is rather off-putting. It's a bit like a Fianna Fáil position of staying in power and managing and fiddling, but not having a proper philosophy. It left me thinking that I would want to vote for Fillon in order to stop Macron getting into the 2nd round, rather than wanting to vote for Fillon in order to stop Le Pen from winning.

    A bland, boring canvas onto which people can paint their own agenda. Sounds a bit like new Labour doesn't it? Doesn't mean that David is wrong of course but is someone like this really going to address France's fairly deep rooted problems ?
  • MonikerDiCanioMonikerDiCanio Posts: 5,792
    JackW said:

    Like you I despise this teacher's pet, Macron. I hope the creep comes a cropper.

    Better "teacher's pet" than Putin's pet surely?
    In any Franco - Russian rapprochement the Frog would be pre-eminent.
  • JohnLoonyJohnLoony Posts: 1,790
    How about Pierre Poujade or Walter Mitty or Charles Haughey or Syme from "Nineteen Eighty-Four"? Any one of them would be far less vobblesquelchingly booliakterous than Macron.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 72,997

    Have we a new thread somewhere, or doesn’t the French election stir people as much as our own?
    Personally I’m still feeling surprised at Donald Trump’s attitude over his Health Care defeat. Why is he ‘blaming’ the Democrats; did he really expect them to co-operate in the evisceration of a flagship Dem policy?

    Your are assuming rationality with that question.
  • david_herdsondavid_herdson Posts: 17,990
    DavidL said:

    JohnLoony said:

    I didn't know much about what Macron actually stands for, so I looked on Wikipedia. It has a load of waffle such as:

    in favor of the free market
    "liberal"
    "neither right nor left"
    "a collective solidarity."
    "I am not a socialist."
    presents himself as both a "leftist" and a "liberal."
    Macron's stated aim is to transcend the left-right divide
    "neither pro-european, eurosceptic nor a federalist in the classical sense"

    which, collectively and cumulatively, is rather off-putting. It's a bit like a Fianna Fáil position of staying in power and managing and fiddling, but not having a proper philosophy. It left me thinking that I would want to vote for Fillon in order to stop Macron getting into the 2nd round, rather than wanting to vote for Fillon in order to stop Le Pen from winning.

    A bland, boring canvas onto which people can paint their own agenda. Sounds a bit like new Labour doesn't it? Doesn't mean that David is wrong of course but is someone like this really going to address France's fairly deep rooted problems ?
    No, he won't - but then that's probably what the French want. The candidate to do that is Fillon, which is another reason to limit the Republicain's vote while a moderate remains in the race.
  • Beverley_CBeverley_C Posts: 6,256

    JackW said:

    Like you I despise this teacher's pet, Macron. I hope the creep comes a cropper.

    Better "teacher's pet" than Putin's pet surely?
    In any Franco - Russian rapprochement the Frog would be pre-eminent.
    So the choice for France is either Kermit or Miss Piggy? :)
  • Beverley_CBeverley_C Posts: 6,256

    He's learning that all the bluster in the world cannot alter the limits that a president has to work within.

    Which is why I doubt that he will last for four years
  • JackWJackW Posts: 14,787

    JackW said:

    Like you I despise this teacher's pet, Macron. I hope the creep comes a cropper.

    Better "teacher's pet" than Putin's pet surely?
    In any Franco - Russian rapprochement the Frog would be pre-eminent.
    The Russian bear is not to be under-estimated ....

    Although bare chested Russian leaders provide us with many a titter filled moment .... :smile:

  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 72,997
    Vetting splits the Mercedes.
    The Ferraris might just be close enough to compete this year after all.

    I am hugely impressed by Grosjean.
  • JackWJackW Posts: 14,787
    Nigelb said:

    Vetting splits the Mercedes.
    The Ferraris might just be close enough to compete this year after all.

    I am hugely impressed by Grosjean.

    Red Card !!!!!

    How very dare you provide such information without the express authority of the site F1 wiffle stick purveyor ?!?

    PBers have been banned for much less
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,888
    Nigelb said:

    Have we a new thread somewhere, or doesn’t the French election stir people as much as our own?
    Personally I’m still feeling surprised at Donald Trump’s attitude over his Health Care defeat. Why is he ‘blaming’ the Democrats; did he really expect them to co-operate in the evisceration of a flagship Dem policy?

    Your are assuming rationality with that question.
    I am rarely accused of either rationality or of being logical!
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 72,997
    JackW said:

    Nigelb said:

    Vetting splits the Mercedes.
    The Ferraris might just be close enough to compete this year after all.

    I am hugely impressed by Grosjean.

    Red Card !!!!!

    How very dare you provide such information without the express authority of the site F1 wiffle stick purveyor ?!?

    PBers have been banned for much less
    And I allowed autocorrect to call Vettel Vetting. Sincere and grovelling apologies.

  • RobDRobD Posts: 60,147
    Nigelb said:

    JackW said:

    Nigelb said:

    Vetting splits the Mercedes.
    The Ferraris might just be close enough to compete this year after all.

    I am hugely impressed by Grosjean.

    Red Card !!!!!

    How very dare you provide such information without the express authority of the site F1 wiffle stick purveyor ?!?

    PBers have been banned for much less
    And I allowed autocorrect to call Vettel Vetting. Sincere and grovelling apologies.

    Off to the Gulag with you! Where you will write a thousand interesting AV threads as a punishment... :smiley:
  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670
    So I've read the Trump/Bannon wanted the vote to still go ahead as they wanted a list of Congressionl enemies. If true I now have a tiny shred of respect for Ryan.

    Still I'm sure I've missed how this is all a briliant move that has destroyed Obama's legacy and guaranteed a permanent republican majority in perpituity.
  • JackWJackW Posts: 14,787
    Nigelb said:

    JackW said:

    Nigelb said:

    Vetting splits the Mercedes.
    The Ferraris might just be close enough to compete this year after all.

    I am hugely impressed by Grosjean.

    Red Card !!!!!

    How very dare you provide such information without the express authority of the site F1 wiffle stick purveyor ?!?

    PBers have been banned for much less
    And I allowed autocorrect to call Vettel Vetting. Sincere and grovelling apologies.

    I very much doubt it .... prepare for the great wiffle stick from the sky to descend upon you and terminate your miserable existence on PB ....
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 72,997

    He's learning that all the bluster in the world cannot alter the limits that a president has to work within.

    Which is why I doubt that he will last for four years
    Who knew governing could be so complicated ?
    In any event, he's not going to resign; nor is he likely to be impeached just for failing to pass legislation.

    On the other hand, a disturbing number of Russians with links to his campaign have been getting shot or contriving to fall out of windows recently...
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 72,997
    JackW said:

    Nigelb said:

    JackW said:

    Nigelb said:

    Vetting splits the Mercedes.
    The Ferraris might just be close enough to compete this year after all.

    I am hugely impressed by Grosjean.

    Red Card !!!!!

    How very dare you provide such information without the express authority of the site F1 wiffle stick purveyor ?!?

    PBers have been banned for much less
    And I allowed autocorrect to call Vettel Vetting. Sincere and grovelling apologies.

    I very much doubt it .... prepare for the great wiffle stick from the sky to descend upon you and terminate your miserable existence on PB ....
    That would be..... medieval.

  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 72,161
    RobD said:

    Nigelb said:

    JackW said:

    Nigelb said:

    Vetting splits the Mercedes.
    The Ferraris might just be close enough to compete this year after all.

    I am hugely impressed by Grosjean.

    Red Card !!!!!

    How very dare you provide such information without the express authority of the site F1 wiffle stick purveyor ?!?

    PBers have been banned for much less
    And I allowed autocorrect to call Vettel Vetting. Sincere and grovelling apologies.

    Off to the Gulag with you! Where you will write a thousand interesting AV threads as a punishment... :smiley:
    Come off it. Writing 1,000 interesting AV threads would be as impossible as finding 'five sane things said by Jeremy Corbyn' or 'five accurate statements by Richard Carrier'.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 72,161
    Alistair said:

    So I've read the Trump/Bannon wanted the vote to still go ahead as they wanted a list of Congressionl enemies. If true I now have a tiny shred of respect for Ryan.

    Still I'm sure I've missed how this is all a briliant move that has destroyed Obama's legacy and guaranteed a permanent republican majority in perpituity.

    With Plato banned we won't be able to find out how for a bit though.

    As for healthcare reform, I'll know the US government is serious about bringing their insane costs under control when a cap is put on damages for medical negligence cases, no win no fee lawyers are banned and any lawyer can be fined $100,000 for filing a case considered by the judge to be vexatious. For some reason I won't hold my breath waiting for that whichever bunch of losers is in power.

    It also needs to have government backed health insurance based on ability to pay of course - as do we. But that's an entirely different problem.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 61,255
    Excellent article, David.

    I am continuing to lay Le Pen. My betting has a heavy bias towards Macron, but I'm keeping a decent green position on Fillion too.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 72,997
    ydoethur said:

    Alistair said:

    So I've read the Trump/Bannon wanted the vote to still go ahead as they wanted a list of Congressionl enemies. If true I now have a tiny shred of respect for Ryan.

    Still I'm sure I've missed how this is all a briliant move that has destroyed Obama's legacy and guaranteed a permanent republican majority in perpituity.

    With Plato banned we won't be able to find out how for a bit though.

    As for healthcare reform, I'll know the US government is serious about bringing their insane costs under control when a cap is put on damages for medical negligence cases, no win no fee lawyers are banned and any lawyer can be fined $100,000 for filing a case considered by the judge to be vexatious. For some reason I won't hold my breath waiting for that whichever bunch of losers is in power.

    It also needs to have government backed health insurance based on ability to pay of course - as do we. But that's an entirely different problem.
    There's a great deal more that's wrong with US healthcare costs than medical negligence suits (or even their inflated drug costs, which account for a mere 10% of spending).

    Right now, I'm wondering just what Trump might have meant when he said "forget about the little shit":
    http://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2017/03/obamacare-vote-paul-ryan-health-care-ahca-replacement-failure-trump-214947
    Surely not speaker Ryan ?
  • YorkcityYorkcity Posts: 4,382
    ydoethur said:

    Alistair said:

    So I've read the Trump/Bannon wanted the vote to still go ahead as they wanted a list of Congressionl enemies. If true I now have a tiny shred of respect for Ryan.

    Still I'm sure I've missed how this is all a briliant move that has destroyed Obama's legacy and guaranteed a permanent republican majority in perpituity.

    With Plato banned we won't be able to find out how for a bit though.

    As for healthcare reform, I'll know the US government is serious about bringing their insane costs under control when a cap is put on damages for medical negligence cases, no win no fee lawyers are banned and any lawyer can be fined $100,000 for filing a case considered by the judge to be vexatious. For some reason I won't hold my breath waiting for that whichever bunch of losers is in power.

    It also needs to have government backed health insurance based on ability to pay of course - as do we. But that's an entirely different problem.
    Why was Plato banned ?
  • JackWJackW Posts: 14,787
    Nigelb said:

    JackW said:

    Nigelb said:

    JackW said:

    Nigelb said:

    Vetting splits the Mercedes.
    The Ferraris might just be close enough to compete this year after all.

    I am hugely impressed by Grosjean.

    Red Card !!!!!

    How very dare you provide such information without the express authority of the site F1 wiffle stick purveyor ?!?

    PBers have been banned for much less
    And I allowed autocorrect to call Vettel Vetting. Sincere and grovelling apologies.

    I very much doubt it .... prepare for the great wiffle stick from the sky to descend upon you and terminate your miserable existence on PB ....
    That would be..... medieval.

    Wonderful .... :naughty:
  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670
    ydoethur said:

    Alistair said:

    So I've read the Trump/Bannon wanted the vote to still go ahead as they wanted a list of Congressionl enemies. If true I now have a tiny shred of respect for Ryan.

    Still I'm sure I've missed how this is all a briliant move that has destroyed Obama's legacy and guaranteed a permanent republican majority in perpituity.

    With Plato banned we won't be able to find out how for a bit though.

    As for healthcare reform, I'll know the US government is serious about bringing their insane costs under control when a cap is put on damages for medical negligence cases, no win no fee lawyers are banned and any lawyer can be fined $100,000 for filing a case considered by the judge to be vexatious. For some reason I won't hold my breath waiting for that whichever bunch of losers is in power.

    It also needs to have government backed health insurance based on ability to pay of course - as do we. But that's an entirely different problem.
    There are states in the USA that have introduced caps on medical negligence cases. They had broadly similar levels of rising insurance premiums to states that haven't.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 62,075
    Good morning, everyone.

    F1: won't spoil it, but qualifying was quite interesting. Will set about writing the pre-race article. Not sure if I'll watch the highlights first.

    On-topic: quite agree. It's as close to a done deal as can be. Despite much hedging, I'm still green, so thanks to the many people who tipped Macron long ago (I got on at 13, I know others did at either side of that).
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 72,161
    Alistair said:

    ydoethur said:

    Alistair said:

    So I've read the Trump/Bannon wanted the vote to still go ahead as they wanted a list of Congressionl enemies. If true I now have a tiny shred of respect for Ryan.

    Still I'm sure I've missed how this is all a briliant move that has destroyed Obama's legacy and guaranteed a permanent republican majority in perpituity.

    With Plato banned we won't be able to find out how for a bit though.

    As for healthcare reform, I'll know the US government is serious about bringing their insane costs under control when a cap is put on damages for medical negligence cases, no win no fee lawyers are banned and any lawyer can be fined $100,000 for filing a case considered by the judge to be vexatious. For some reason I won't hold my breath waiting for that whichever bunch of losers is in power.

    It also needs to have government backed health insurance based on ability to pay of course - as do we. But that's an entirely different problem.
    There are states in the USA that have introduced caps on medical negligence cases. They had broadly similar levels of rising insurance premiums to states that haven't.
    Have they got rid of no-win, no fee lawyers?
  • JackWJackW Posts: 14,787
    edited March 2017

    Good morning, everyone.

    F1: won't spoil it, but qualifying was quite interesting. Will set about writing the pre-race article. Not sure if I'll watch the highlights first.

    I very much regret to say your position as F1 PB Prognosticator-in-Chief was usurped earlier .... Your swift and righteous wrath upon the miserable miscreant is awaited ....
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 62,075
    Mr. W, nonsense, man. Morris Dancer is pb.com's F1 correspondent. It is known.
  • JackWJackW Posts: 14,787

    Mr. W, nonsense, man. Morris Dancer is pb.com's F1 correspondent. It is known.

    Clearly not ....

    See 7:13am for the untrammeled evidence.
  • frpenkridgefrpenkridge Posts: 670
    Final message from Plato? "Tell Mike it was only politics. I always liked him."
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 72,997
    JackW said:

    Mr. W, nonsense, man. Morris Dancer is pb.com's F1 correspondent. It is known.

    Clearly not ....

    See 7:13am for the untrammeled evidence.
    This unseemly attempt to drive a wedge between the splendid Mr.D. and myself is beneath a man of your illustrious history.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 62,075
    edited March 2017
    Mr. W, I never said I was the sole and exclusive commenter on F1 things. It's unsurprising other people appreciate the wonders and delights of F1.

    Edited extra bit: the BBC don't have the qualifying results up. Lots of chatter about it, but it's not on the results page with timings.

    .... That's pretty much coverage 101. Anyway, back to the official site.
  • freetochoosefreetochoose Posts: 1,107
    I've been fascinated by the concept of value in betting for 25 years, I have zero knowledge of French politics but would be very wary of backing a politician ante post at 1/2. With the plethora of bookmakers and betfair there is very little opportunity to back anything at prices over the odds. However as others have hinted at there is money to be made laying things that punters WANT to happen. In football Liverpool and Utd with their huge support are always priced at unrealistic odds, backing A P McCoy blindly was the way to the poor house.

    Macron way well win, I'm not convinced 1/2 with 6 weeks to go is shrewd.

    Very good thread header btw, about politics and betting, funnily enough.

  • ThreeQuidderThreeQuidder Posts: 6,133
    JackW said:

    Nigelb said:

    Vetting splits the Mercedes.
    The Ferraris might just be close enough to compete this year after all.

    I am hugely impressed by Grosjean.

    Red Card !!!!!

    How very dare you provide such information without the express authority of the site F1 wiffle stick purveyor ?!?

    PBers have been banned for much less
    Yeah, but Mr Dancer doesn't have the power to ban people in a fit of pique...
  • JackWJackW Posts: 14,787

    Final message from Plato? "Tell Mike it was only politics. I always liked him."

    As she spoke from the scaffold ....

    @Plato gave the axeman a purse of pink silk embroidered with silver wire. She forgave him and placed her head on the block as her adherents wept softy.

    Some onlookers thought they glimpsed the balding, statuesque but dominating figure of a man from behind a fine Aubusson tapestry screen. Was it him ?!?

    The axe fell and @Plato was delivered into the oblivion of ConHome. Attendants dipped their computer screen cloths in the blood. There was a chill in the air as an AV thread moved the crowds back to the comfort of familiar matters ....

  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,652
    edited March 2017

    I've been fascinated by the concept of value in betting for 25 years, I have zero knowledge of French politics but would be very wary of backing a politician ante post at 1/2. With the plethora of bookmakers and betfair there is very little opportunity to back anything at prices over the odds. However as others have hinted at there is money to be made laying things that punters WANT to happen. In football Liverpool and Utd with their huge support are always priced at unrealistic odds, backing A P McCoy blindly was the way to the poor house.

    Macron way well win, I'm not convinced 1/2 with 6 weeks to go is shrewd.

    Very good thread header btw, about politics and betting, funnily enough.

    It isn't really ante-post though is it ?

    Hamon-Melenchon-Le Pen-Macron-Fillon are the confirmed runners.
    #
    Backing Juppe a few weeks back would have been an ante-post "move".

    Of the 5 runners how do we price them.

    Well starting with the outsiders, Hamon & Melenchon they are unlikely to make the final 2 - between them perhaps we can give 15-1 (At the very most).
    We know that Fillon is unlikely to make the final two but party branding should hold him 3rd. Perhaps 6-1
    Le Pen makes the final two but is a long way behind in any final two - particularly vs Macron. 9-1 to be generous to her.

    We know Macron is likely to make the final two, and in that final two he is likely to win. Hence the 1-2 price.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 72,997
    ydoethur said:

    Alistair said:

    ydoethur said:

    Alistair said:

    So I've read the Trump/Bannon wanted the vote to still go ahead as they wanted a list of Congressionl enemies. If true I now have a tiny shred of respect for Ryan.

    Still I'm sure I've missed how this is all a briliant move that has destroyed Obama's legacy and guaranteed a permanent republican majority in perpituity.

    With Plato banned we won't be able to find out how for a bit though.

    As for healthcare reform, I'll know the US government is serious about bringing their insane costs under control when a cap is put on damages for medical negligence cases, no win no fee lawyers are banned and any lawyer can be fined $100,000 for filing a case considered by the judge to be vexatious. For some reason I won't hold my breath waiting for that whichever bunch of losers is in power.

    It also needs to have government backed health insurance based on ability to pay of course - as do we. But that's an entirely different problem.
    There are states in the USA that have introduced caps on medical negligence cases. They had broadly similar levels of rising insurance premiums to states that haven't.
    Have they got rid of no-win, no fee lawyers?
    Comprehensive tort reform in the US is perhaps even more difficult to accomplish than healthcare reform - and wouldn't really dent US healthcare costs.

    What really drives up prices is the unique (compared to anyone else's system) reliance on for-profit insurance for both elective and essential treatment, and the inability of government to negotiate/set prices for treatments, drugs etc.
    It is a fiendishly complicated system which makes the barest nod to the free market - and seems to participate in all of the problems and none of the benefits of either the private or the public sectors.
  • freetochoosefreetochoose Posts: 1,107
    Pulpstar said:

    I've been fascinated by the concept of value in betting for 25 years, I have zero knowledge of French politics but would be very wary of backing a politician ante post at 1/2. With the plethora of bookmakers and betfair there is very little opportunity to back anything at prices over the odds. However as others have hinted at there is money to be made laying things that punters WANT to happen. In football Liverpool and Utd with their huge support are always priced at unrealistic odds, backing A P McCoy blindly was the way to the poor house.

    Macron way well win, I'm not convinced 1/2 with 6 weeks to go is shrewd.

    Very good thread header btw, about politics and betting, funnily enough.

    It isn't really ante-post though is it ?

    Hamon-Melenchon-Le Pen-Macron-Fillon are the confirmed runners.
    #
    Backing Juppe a few weeks back would have been an ante-post "move".
    Fair enough but if a week is a long time in politics 6 weeks is an eternity.

    Look, I'm not saying he won't win just that I'm not convinced about the "value" which is of course subjective.
  • SquareRootSquareRoot Posts: 7,095
    Pulpstar said:

    I've been fascinated by the concept of value in betting for 25 years, I have zero knowledge of French politics but would be very wary of backing a politician ante post at 1/2. With the plethora of bookmakers and betfair there is very little opportunity to back anything at prices over the odds. However as others have hinted at there is money to be made laying things that punters WANT to happen. In football Liverpool and Utd with their huge support are always priced at unrealistic odds, backing A P McCoy blindly was the way to the poor house.

    Macron way well win, I'm not convinced 1/2 with 6 weeks to go is shrewd.

    Very good thread header btw, about politics and betting, funnily enough.

    It isn't really ante-post though is it ?

    Hamon-Melenchon-Le Pen-Macron-Fillon are the confirmed runners.
    #
    Backing Juppe a few weeks back would have been an ante-post "move".
    Confirmed.. unless a scandal forces one to drop out
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,652
    edited March 2017
    The last political bet around 1-2 that I remember being value was Trump for the nomination.

    Douvan at 1-4 for his race was probably about right, though there is always the chance of an injury in running. Which occured.

    Macron winning is probably slightly more certain than Douvan winning was. He can't get "injured in running"..

    QED If this was a horse race, Macron would be 1-5, 1-6 to the starting gate.
  • freetochoosefreetochoose Posts: 1,107
    Pulpstar said:

    The last political bet around 1-2 that I remember being value was Trump for the nomination.

    Douvan at 1-4 for his race was probably about right, though there is always the chance of an injury in running. Which occured.

    Macron winning is probably slightly more certain than Douvan winning was. He can't get "injured in running"..

    QED If this was a horse race, Macron would be 1-5, 1-6 to the starting gate.

    Well if you can back a 1/6 chance at 1/2 fill your boots
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,652

    Pulpstar said:

    I've been fascinated by the concept of value in betting for 25 years, I have zero knowledge of French politics but would be very wary of backing a politician ante post at 1/2. With the plethora of bookmakers and betfair there is very little opportunity to back anything at prices over the odds. However as others have hinted at there is money to be made laying things that punters WANT to happen. In football Liverpool and Utd with their huge support are always priced at unrealistic odds, backing A P McCoy blindly was the way to the poor house.

    Macron way well win, I'm not convinced 1/2 with 6 weeks to go is shrewd.

    Very good thread header btw, about politics and betting, funnily enough.

    It isn't really ante-post though is it ?

    Hamon-Melenchon-Le Pen-Macron-Fillon are the confirmed runners.
    #
    Backing Juppe a few weeks back would have been an ante-post "move".
    Confirmed.. unless a scandal forces one to drop out
    Fillon has been in a scandal for months, it hasn't meant he has dropped out; but it has meant his polling has slipped.
    I still think he is the main danger to Macron though - so I have him slightly +ve in the book.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,652

    Pulpstar said:

    The last political bet around 1-2 that I remember being value was Trump for the nomination.

    Douvan at 1-4 for his race was probably about right, though there is always the chance of an injury in running. Which occured.

    Macron winning is probably slightly more certain than Douvan winning was. He can't get "injured in running"..

    QED If this was a horse race, Macron would be 1-5, 1-6 to the starting gate.

    Well if you can back a 1/6 chance at 1/2 fill your boots
    They are reasonably full.
  • david_herdsondavid_herdson Posts: 17,990

    Pulpstar said:

    I've been fascinated by the concept of value in betting for 25 years, I have zero knowledge of French politics but would be very wary of backing a politician ante post at 1/2. With the plethora of bookmakers and betfair there is very little opportunity to back anything at prices over the odds. However as others have hinted at there is money to be made laying things that punters WANT to happen. In football Liverpool and Utd with their huge support are always priced at unrealistic odds, backing A P McCoy blindly was the way to the poor house.

    Macron way well win, I'm not convinced 1/2 with 6 weeks to go is shrewd.

    Very good thread header btw, about politics and betting, funnily enough.

    It isn't really ante-post though is it ?

    Hamon-Melenchon-Le Pen-Macron-Fillon are the confirmed runners.
    #
    Backing Juppe a few weeks back would have been an ante-post "move".
    Confirmed.. unless a scandal forces one to drop out
    That would be more akin to a fall rather than failing to make the starting gate. As pulpstar says, we have the line up now.
  • Beverley_CBeverley_C Posts: 6,256
    JackW said:

    Final message from Plato? "Tell Mike it was only politics. I always liked him."

    As she spoke from the scaffold ....

    @Plato gave the axeman a purse of pink silk embroidered with silver wire. She forgave him and placed her head on the block as her adherents wept softy.

    Some onlookers thought they glimpsed the balding, statuesque but dominating figure of a man from behind a fine Aubusson tapestry screen. Was it him ?!?

    The axe fell and @Plato was delivered into the oblivion of ConHome. Attendants dipped their computer screen cloths in the blood. There was a chill in the air as an AV thread moved the crowds back to the comfort of familiar matters ....

    A fine piece of prose Mr W. I am weeping into my green tea as I lament the fallen's punishment of ConHome. Maybe for her it is Eldamar
  • SquareRootSquareRoot Posts: 7,095
    Pulpstar said:

    Pulpstar said:

    I've been fascinated by the concept of value in betting for 25 years, I have zero knowledge of French politics but would be very wary of backing a politician ante post at 1/2. With the plethora of bookmakers and betfair there is very little opportunity to back anything at prices over the odds. However as others have hinted at there is money to be made laying things that punters WANT to happen. In football Liverpool and Utd with their huge support are always priced at unrealistic odds, backing A P McCoy blindly was the way to the poor house.

    Macron way well win, I'm not convinced 1/2 with 6 weeks to go is shrewd.

    Very good thread header btw, about politics and betting, funnily enough.

    It isn't really ante-post though is it ?

    Hamon-Melenchon-Le Pen-Macron-Fillon are the confirmed runners.
    #
    Backing Juppe a few weeks back would have been an ante-post "move".
    Confirmed.. unless a scandal forces one to drop out
    Fillon has been in a scandal for months, it hasn't meant he has dropped out; but it has meant his polling has slipped.
    I still think he is the main danger to Macron though - so I have him slightly +ve in the book.
    My French tutor thinks Macron is a puppet being worked from behind.
  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 21,768
    Poor old @Plato. The Russian embassy will want half its money back.
  • david_herdsondavid_herdson Posts: 17,990

    Pulpstar said:

    I've been fascinated by the concept of value in betting for 25 years, I have zero knowledge of French politics but would be very wary of backing a politician ante post at 1/2. With the plethora of bookmakers and betfair there is very little opportunity to back anything at prices over the odds. However as others have hinted at there is money to be made laying things that punters WANT to happen. In football Liverpool and Utd with their huge support are always priced at unrealistic odds, backing A P McCoy blindly was the way to the poor house.

    Macron way well win, I'm not convinced 1/2 with 6 weeks to go is shrewd.

    Very good thread header btw, about politics and betting, funnily enough.

    It isn't really ante-post though is it ?

    Hamon-Melenchon-Le Pen-Macron-Fillon are the confirmed runners.
    #
    Backing Juppe a few weeks back would have been an ante-post "move".
    Fair enough but if a week is a long time in politics 6 weeks is an eternity.

    Look, I'm not saying he won't win just that I'm not convinced about the "value" which is of course subjective.
    Look at it the other way round. Ask yourself what the route to the Elysee is for each of the other candidates. They're very tough. I reckon Fillon and Le Pen sould be into double figures; the two from the left far higher; the rest, frankly, name your price. That leaves Macron with at least an 80% chance. There's your value.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 42,373

    Final message from Plato? "Tell Mike it was only politics. I always liked him."

    Lol.

    Now she sleeps with the pussies.
  • Beverley_CBeverley_C Posts: 6,256
    edited March 2017

    It's unsurprising other people appreciate the wonders and delights of F1

    Wonders and delights? I always thought that it was just noisy cars going round and round. The only thing that stops the spectators from falling asleep is the screaming whine of the engines.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 42,373
    Any loyalist Trumpers should listen to David Frum on R4 this morning, he fillets the Obamacare issue to the bone (and God, the relief of hearing an intelligent conservative voice).
  • MonikerDiCanioMonikerDiCanio Posts: 5,792

    Pulpstar said:

    Pulpstar said:

    I've been fascinated by the concept of value in betting for 25 years, I have zero knowledge of French politics but would be very wary of backing a politician ante post at 1/2. With the plethora of bookmakers and betfair there is very little opportunity to back anything at prices over the odds. However as others have hinted at there is money to be made laying things that punters WANT to happen. In football Liverpool and Utd with their huge support are always priced at unrealistic odds, backing A P McCoy blindly was the way to the poor house.

    Macron way well win, I'm not convinced 1/2 with 6 weeks to go is shrewd.

    Very good thread header btw, about politics and betting, funnily enough.

    It isn't really ante-post though is it ?

    Hamon-Melenchon-Le Pen-Macron-Fillon are the confirmed runners.
    #
    Backing Juppe a few weeks back would have been an ante-post "move".
    Confirmed.. unless a scandal forces one to drop out
    Fillon has been in a scandal for months, it hasn't meant he has dropped out; but it has meant his polling has slipped.
    I still think he is the main danger to Macron though - so I have him slightly +ve in the book.
    My French tutor thinks Macron is a puppet being worked from behind.
    Macrionette.
  • MortimerMortimer Posts: 14,158
    Thanks for an excellent Saturday morning insight as ever David!

    All logic suggests Macron is a shoo in. I just can't apply logic to my last 3 major betting wins; so
    I'm staying all green in this market...
  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670
    edited March 2017

    Any loyalist Trumpers should listen to David Frum on R4 this morning, he fillets the Obamacare issue to the bone (and God, the relief of hearing an intelligent conservative voice).

    David Forum endorsed Mitt Romeny on the basis that Romeny was lying about his policy platform and wouldn't implement most of it and also electing Obama would plunge the US into crisis as the republican mentalists in co grease would try and blow up the US rather than let him govern.

    Vote for my guy as he's a liar and also i will give the hostage takers everything the want.

    He also is proud of the 'axis of evil' speech, the line in particular (which he wrote) and the whole general policy directive it indicated.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 62,075
    Miss DiCanio, that's rather good.

    Mrs C, search your feelings. You know it to be true.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,719

    Final message from Plato? "Tell Mike it was only politics. I always liked him."

    Don't tell me Plato is banned now as well, what was the crime.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 62,075
    F1: ha, now rather regretting not tipping Grosjean to be top 6. With Ladbrokes, he was 7 yesterday. Now evens.
  • freetochoosefreetochoose Posts: 1,107

    Pulpstar said:

    I've been fascinated by the concept of value in betting for 25 years, I have zero knowledge of French politics but would be very wary of backing a politician ante post at 1/2. With the plethora of bookmakers and betfair there is very little opportunity to back anything at prices over the odds. However as others have hinted at there is money to be made laying things that punters WANT to happen. In football Liverpool and Utd with their huge support are always priced at unrealistic odds, backing A P McCoy blindly was the way to the poor house.

    Macron way well win, I'm not convinced 1/2 with 6 weeks to go is shrewd.

    Very good thread header btw, about politics and betting, funnily enough.

    It isn't really ante-post though is it ?

    Hamon-Melenchon-Le Pen-Macron-Fillon are the confirmed runners.
    #
    Backing Juppe a few weeks back would have been an ante-post "move".
    Fair enough but if a week is a long time in politics 6 weeks is an eternity.

    Look, I'm not saying he won't win just that I'm not convinced about the "value" which is of course subjective.
    Look at it the other way round. Ask yourself what the route to the Elysee is for each of the other candidates. They're very tough. I reckon Fillon and Le Pen sould be into double figures; the two from the left far higher; the rest, frankly, name your price. That leaves Macron with at least an 80% chance. There's your value.
    That's fair enough but I'm curious why bookies are offering 1/2 about a 80% chance.
  • david_herdsondavid_herdson Posts: 17,990

    Pulpstar said:

    I've been fascinated by the concept of value in betting for 25 years, I have zero knowledge of French politics but would be very wary of backing a politician ante post at 1/2. With the plethora of bookmakers and betfair there is very little opportunity to back anything at prices over the odds. However as others have hinted at there is money to be made laying things that punters WANT to happen. In football Liverpool and Utd with their huge support are always priced at unrealistic odds, backing A P McCoy blindly was the way to the poor house.

    Macron way well win, I'm not convinced 1/2 with 6 weeks to go is shrewd.

    Very good thread header btw, about politics and betting, funnily enough.

    It isn't really ante-post though is it ?

    Hamon-Melenchon-Le Pen-Macron-Fillon are the confirmed runners.
    #
    Backing Juppe a few weeks back would have been an ante-post "move".
    Fair enough but if a week is a long time in politics 6 weeks is an eternity.

    Look, I'm not saying he won't win just that I'm not convinced about the "value" which is of course subjective.
    Look at it the other way round. Ask yourself what the route to the Elysee is for each of the other candidates. They're very tough. I reckon Fillon and Le Pen sould be into double figures; the two from the left far higher; the rest, frankly, name your price. That leaves Macron with at least an 80% chance. There's your value.
    That's fair enough but I'm curious why bookies are offering 1/2 about a 80% chance.
    Presumably, punters keep on backing Le Pen and/or Fillon at short odds.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,652

    Pulpstar said:

    I've been fascinated by the concept of value in betting for 25 years, I have zero knowledge of French politics but would be very wary of backing a politician ante post at 1/2. With the plethora of bookmakers and betfair there is very little opportunity to back anything at prices over the odds. However as others have hinted at there is money to be made laying things that punters WANT to happen. In football Liverpool and Utd with their huge support are always priced at unrealistic odds, backing A P McCoy blindly was the way to the poor house.

    Macron way well win, I'm not convinced 1/2 with 6 weeks to go is shrewd.

    Very good thread header btw, about politics and betting, funnily enough.

    It isn't really ante-post though is it ?

    Hamon-Melenchon-Le Pen-Macron-Fillon are the confirmed runners.
    #
    Backing Juppe a few weeks back would have been an ante-post "move".
    Fair enough but if a week is a long time in politics 6 weeks is an eternity.

    Look, I'm not saying he won't win just that I'm not convinced about the "value" which is of course subjective.
    Look at it the other way round. Ask yourself what the route to the Elysee is for each of the other candidates. They're very tough. I reckon Fillon and Le Pen sould be into double figures; the two from the left far higher; the rest, frankly, name your price. That leaves Macron with at least an 80% chance. There's your value.
    That's fair enough but I'm curious why bookies are offering 1/2 about a 80% chance.
    Odds on shots are often priced up too long, Truro & Falmouth @ 1-4 for the last election is a short shot that should have been 1-50 or thereabouts for the Tories in GE2015. Plenty of others.
  • Beverley_CBeverley_C Posts: 6,256

    Mrs C, search your feelings. You know it to be true.

    Mr Dancer, slow is better than fast. Trust me on this ;)
  • RogerRoger Posts: 20,062
    edited March 2017
    IF Macron wins I'd like to put in a word for Surbiton.

    I was returning from France and called in on a couple of friends on the way to the airport

    When I next switched on PB by chance there was a thread on the French elections so I thought I'd give it my 2 pennysworth. But the first post I read was from Surbiton saying MACRON was nailed on.....

    I hadn't heard of him at the time so I read up on him and liked the sound of what I read so decided not to share my Fillon tip.....

    And the rest might well be history.

  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 62,075
    edited March 2017
    Mrs C, are you really saying you were dissatisfied with the Canadian Grand Prix? It lasted more than four hours, in slippery conditions, and had a thrilling climax.

    Edited extra bit: of 2011, of course.
  • MonikerDiCanioMonikerDiCanio Posts: 5,792

    Miss DiCanio, that's rather good.

    Mrs C, search your feelings. You know it to be true.

    Animated by the hidden hand rather than strings.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,652
    I note the Daily Mail has managed to squeeze a house price onto the front cover of the terror story.

    Arf.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 72,161
    edited March 2017
    Nigelb said:

    Comprehensive tort reform in the US is perhaps even more difficult to accomplish than healthcare reform - and wouldn't really dent US healthcare costs.

    What really drives up prices is the unique (compared to anyone else's system) reliance on for-profit insurance for both elective and essential treatment, and the inability of government to negotiate/set prices for treatments, drugs etc.
    It is a fiendishly complicated system which makes the barest nod to the free market - and seems to participate in all of the problems and none of the benefits of either the private or the public sectors.

    Which is why, like us, they need comprehensive reform and proper government backed insurance.

    But I am not sure I agree with you about the limited impacts of vexatious torts. I have been following a case in Ohio where a quack conspiracy theorist 'historian' has been suing people for accusing him of sexual harassment - even though he has actually publicly admitted that the charges of inappropriate behaviour are true. He's even included a string of emails where he repeatedly propositions a married woman to a threesome with yet another woman despite her telling him where to go in evidence, which alone should be enough to sink his case. He's demanding $3 million in damages, which would be a hundred times his earnings potential, and a full retraction.

    Obviously unless the jury are all smoking weed this case is going to fail. But the defendants have already had to pay out around $30,000 in legal costs and the case is still ongoing. And given the stupid laws the US have on costs and bankruptcy, coupled with the fact that he is unemployed and has no assets, means that money is irrevocable.

    Multiply that by five million and suddenly there is a major financial burden to be borne. So whether it's difficult or not, somebody needs to grasp the nettle and do it.
  • freetochoosefreetochoose Posts: 1,107
    Over £2m has been traded on Macron on betfair at up to 43/1, plenty of people have a view.
  • RogerRoger Posts: 20,062
    malcolmg said:

    Final message from Plato? "Tell Mike it was only politics. I always liked him."

    Don't tell me Plato is banned now as well, what was the crime.
    Just a guess but multiple posts on why Khan hadn't made a statement on the Westminster murders despite being told by almost every poster that he had.

    (Of course as most of us are on her invisible list it's not suprising that she missed them).
  • Ishmael_ZIshmael_Z Posts: 8,981
    malcolmg said:

    Final message from Plato? "Tell Mike it was only politics. I always liked him."

    Don't tell me Plato is banned now as well, what was the crime.
    'tis the Reign of Terror, malc.
    JackW said:

    Final message from Plato? "Tell Mike it was only politics. I always liked him."

    As she spoke from the scaffold ....

    @Plato gave the axeman a purse of pink silk embroidered with silver wire. She forgave him and placed her head on the block as her adherents wept softy.

    Some onlookers thought they glimpsed the balding, statuesque but dominating figure of a man from behind a fine Aubusson tapestry screen. Was it him ?!?

    The axe fell and @Plato was delivered into the oblivion of ConHome. Attendants dipped their computer screen cloths in the blood. There was a chill in the air as an AV thread moved the crowds back to the comfort of familiar matters ....

    Absolutely.

    She nothing common did or mean
    Upon that memorable scene,
    But with her keener eye
    The axe’s edge did try;
    Nor call’d the gods with vulgar spite
    To vindicate her helpless right,
    But bowed her comely head
    Down as upon a bed.
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    DavidL said:

    JohnLoony said:

    I didn't know much about what Macron actually stands for, so I looked on Wikipedia. It has a load of waffle such as:

    in favor of the free market
    "liberal"
    "neither right nor left"
    "a collective solidarity."
    "I am not a socialist."
    presents himself as both a "leftist" and a "liberal."
    Macron's stated aim is to transcend the left-right divide
    "neither pro-european, eurosceptic nor a federalist in the classical sense"

    which, collectively and cumulatively, is rather off-putting. It's a bit like a Fianna Fáil position of staying in power and managing and fiddling, but not having a proper philosophy. It left me thinking that I would want to vote for Fillon in order to stop Macron getting into the 2nd round, rather than wanting to vote for Fillon in order to stop Le Pen from winning.

    A bland, boring canvas onto which people can paint their own agenda. Sounds a bit like new Labour doesn't it? Doesn't mean that David is wrong of course but is someone like this really going to address France's fairly deep rooted problems ?
    He is close to a friend of mine (same person who was giving me instructions guy on the French views on the Brexit negotiations). Very charming, excellent negotiator. No discernable principles. Typical investment banker - says what he needs to in order to seal the deal while maintaining maximum room for manoeuvre
  • "Poor British kids, come and serve our wanky over priced grub to posh kids, for nothing! We're terrified our cheap foreign labour will disappear because of Brexit, and we want to entice you to work for us, but don't want to pay you!"


    https://www.theguardian.com/business/2017/mar/25/pret-a-manger-looks-to-uks-teenagers-to-tackle-looming-staff-crisis
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 42,373
    Alistair said:

    Any loyalist Trumpers should listen to David Frum on R4 this morning, he fillets the Obamacare issue to the bone (and God, the relief of hearing an intelligent conservative voice).

    David Forum endorsed Mitt Romeny on the basis that Romeny was lying about his policy platform and wouldn't implement most of it and also electing Obama would plunge the US into crisis as the republican mentalists in co grease would try and blow up the US rather than let him govern.

    Vote for my guy as he's a liar and also i will give the hostage takers everything the want.

    He also is proud of the 'axis of evil' speech, the line in particular (which he wrote) and the whole general policy directive it indicated.
    Nobody's perfect!

    I guess most practioners of the political arts would get a guilty buzz out of creating a political meme regardless of the consequences. It's no 'project fear', mind.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,719
    edited March 2017
    Roger said:

    malcolmg said:

    Final message from Plato? "Tell Mike it was only politics. I always liked him."

    Don't tell me Plato is banned now as well, what was the crime.
    Just a guess but multiple posts on why Khan hadn't made a statement on the Westminster murders despite being told by almost every poster that he had.

    (Of course as most of us are on her invisible list it's not suprising that she missed them).
    Thanks Roger , I did see him once on TV, but he is such a bore it would be easy to purge him from your brain. He is pretty invisible all the time given he is the mayor of the most important city in teh world. Only utterance I have heard from him this year was to call call Scots racist for supporting the SNP. A real charmer for sure.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,719

    "Poor British kids, come and serve our wanky over priced grub to posh kids, for nothing! We're terrified our cheap foreign labour will disappear because of Brexit, and we want to entice you to work for us, but don't want to pay you!"


    https://www.theguardian.com/business/2017/mar/25/pret-a-manger-looks-to-uks-teenagers-to-tackle-looming-staff-crisis

    Not much chance of getting locals off benefits or out of bed early for £7 an hour.
  • MonikerDiCanioMonikerDiCanio Posts: 5,792
    Charles said:

    DavidL said:

    JohnLoony said:

    I didn't know much about what Macron actually stands for, so I looked on Wikipedia. It has a load of waffle such as:

    in favor of the free market
    "liberal"
    "neither right nor left"
    "a collective solidarity."
    "I am not a socialist."
    presents himself as both a "leftist" and a "liberal."
    Macron's stated aim is to transcend the left-right divide
    "neither pro-european, eurosceptic nor a federalist in the classical sense"

    which, collectively and cumulatively, is rather off-putting. It's a bit like a Fianna Fáil position of staying in power and managing and fiddling, but not having a proper philosophy. It left me thinking that I would want to vote for Fillon in order to stop Macron getting into the 2nd round, rather than wanting to vote for Fillon in order to stop Le Pen from winning.

    A bland, boring canvas onto which people can paint their own agenda. Sounds a bit like new Labour doesn't it? Doesn't mean that David is wrong of course but is someone like this really going to address France's fairly deep rooted problems ?
    He is close to a friend of mine (same person who was giving me instructions guy on the French views on the Brexit negotiations). Very charming, excellent negotiator. No discernable principles. Typical investment banker - says what he needs to in order to seal the deal while maintaining maximum room for manoeuvre
    Macron seems to have " worked " as an investment banker for all of two minutes and walked away with a few million euros. What's up with that, Charles ?
  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670
    edited March 2017
    https://twitter.com/BBCJamesCook/status/845374321686020096

    If Trump can sell that line then he can sell anything (bar healthcare reform)
  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 22,448
    Test

    (Just making sure that I've not been "taken out" in the Great PB Brexiteer Massacre) ! :smiley:
  • RogerRoger Posts: 20,062
    (. Repeat of a post where an important line went missing)

    IF Macron wins I'd like to put in a word for Surbiton.

    I was returning from France and called in on a couple of friends on the way to the airport. I asked who would win the election-no iffs no buts-FILLON they said. Certain? Yes certain.

    When I next switched on PB by chance there was a thread on the French elections so I thought I'd give it my 2 pennysworth. But the first post I read was from Surbiton saying MACRON was nailed on.....

    I hadn't heard of him at the time so I read up on him and liked the sound of what I read so decided not to share my Fillon tip.....

    And the rest might well be history.
  • DecrepitJohnLDecrepitJohnL Posts: 13,300
    Nigelb said:

    ydoethur said:

    Alistair said:

    So I've read the Trump/Bannon wanted the vote to still go ahead as they wanted a list of Congressionl enemies. If true I now have a tiny shred of respect for Ryan.

    Still I'm sure I've missed how this is all a briliant move that has destroyed Obama's legacy and guaranteed a permanent republican majority in perpituity.

    With Plato banned we won't be able to find out how for a bit though.

    As for healthcare reform, I'll know the US government is serious about bringing their insane costs under control when a cap is put on damages for medical negligence cases, no win no fee lawyers are banned and any lawyer can be fined $100,000 for filing a case considered by the judge to be vexatious. For some reason I won't hold my breath waiting for that whichever bunch of losers is in power.

    It also needs to have government backed health insurance based on ability to pay of course - as do we. But that's an entirely different problem.
    There's a great deal more that's wrong with US healthcare costs than medical negligence suits (or even their inflated drug costs, which account for a mere 10% of spending).

    Right now, I'm wondering just what Trump might have meant when he said "forget about the little shit":
    http://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2017/03/obamacare-vote-paul-ryan-health-care-ahca-replacement-failure-trump-214947
    Surely not speaker Ryan ?
    Emphasis on the little, not the shit -- Trump was just saying don't sweat the small stuff.

    Trump knows sod all about policy details and cares less. It would have been interesting to see Plato's reaction because this was Trump versus the right wing, not the left. Ryan's plan went down, not Trump's, because Trump never really had a plan and it is not even clear he cares very much about this issue.
  • malcolmg said:

    "Poor British kids, come and serve our wanky over priced grub to posh kids, for nothing! We're terrified our cheap foreign labour will disappear because of Brexit, and we want to entice you to work for us, but don't want to pay you!"


    https://www.theguardian.com/business/2017/mar/25/pret-a-manger-looks-to-uks-teenagers-to-tackle-looming-staff-crisis

    Not much chance of getting locals off benefits or out of bed early for £7 an hour.
    I dunno about that Malc. Maybe if firms like Pret struggle to recruit in the future, they might have to change something to make their jobs more appealing.
  • Beverley_CBeverley_C Posts: 6,256
    edited March 2017

    Mrs C, are you really saying you were dissatisfied with the Canadian Grand Prix?

    I did not even know they had one. I thought all the Grand Pricks were further south in Washington

    It lasted more than four hours, in slippery conditions, and had a thrilling climax.

    That sounds familiar :D
  • EssexitEssexit Posts: 1,963
    Roger said:

    malcolmg said:

    Final message from Plato? "Tell Mike it was only politics. I always liked him."

    Don't tell me Plato is banned now as well, what was the crime.
    Just a guess but multiple posts on why Khan hadn't made a statement on the Westminster murders despite being told by almost every poster that he had.

    (Of course as most of us are on her invisible list it's not suprising that she missed them).
    That doesn't really sound like a banning matter.
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758

    Charles said:

    DavidL said:

    JohnLoony said:

    I didn't know much about what Macron actually stands for, so I looked on Wikipedia. It has a load of waffle such as:

    in favor of the free market
    "liberal"
    "neither right nor left"
    "a collective solidarity."
    "I am not a socialist."
    presents himself as both a "leftist" and a "liberal."
    Macron's stated aim is to transcend the left-right divide
    "neither pro-european, eurosceptic nor a federalist in the classical sense"

    which, collectively and cumulatively, is rather off-putting. It's a bit like a Fianna Fáil position of staying in power and managing and fiddling, but not having a proper philosophy. It left me thinking that I would want to vote for Fillon in order to stop Macron getting into the 2nd round, rather than wanting to vote for Fillon in order to stop Le Pen from winning.

    A bland, boring canvas onto which people can paint their own agenda. Sounds a bit like new Labour doesn't it? Doesn't mean that David is wrong of course but is someone like this really going to address France's fairly deep rooted problems ?
    He is close to a friend of mine (same person who was giving me instructions guy on the French views on the Brexit negotiations). Very charming, excellent negotiator. No discernable principles. Typical investment banker - says what he needs to in order to seal the deal while maintaining maximum room for manoeuvre
    Macron seems to have " worked " as an investment banker for all of two minutes and walked away with a few million euros. What's up with that, Charles ?
    It's the way Rothschild works. Very tough to compete against, but I wouldn't play that way myself
  • RoyalBlueRoyalBlue Posts: 3,223

    "Poor British kids, come and serve our wanky over priced grub to posh kids, for nothing! We're terrified our cheap foreign labour will disappear because of Brexit, and we want to entice you to work for us, but don't want to pay you!"


    https://www.theguardian.com/business/2017/mar/25/pret-a-manger-looks-to-uks-teenagers-to-tackle-looming-staff-crisis

    Unbelievable. Pret deserves to fold after Brexit with attitudes like that to staff.

    I wonder if the Left will jump on this one?
  • SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 39,774

    malcolmg said:

    "Poor British kids, come and serve our wanky over priced grub to posh kids, for nothing! We're terrified our cheap foreign labour will disappear because of Brexit, and we want to entice you to work for us, but don't want to pay you!"


    https://www.theguardian.com/business/2017/mar/25/pret-a-manger-looks-to-uks-teenagers-to-tackle-looming-staff-crisis

    Not much chance of getting locals off benefits or out of bed early for £7 an hour.
    I dunno about that Malc. Maybe if firms like Pret struggle to recruit in the future, they might have to change something to make their jobs more appealing.

    Boris on Pret:

    https://www.thesun.co.uk/archives/politics/316489/young-brits-lack-energy-says-boris-johnson/

    What's more likely to happen is that Pret will just close down branches. The problem is that customers (us) will only pay so much for a cheese sandwich.
  • RogerRoger Posts: 20,062
    Jonathan said:

    Poor old @Plato. The Russian embassy will want half its money back.

    Now THAT'S funny!
  • Ishmael_ZIshmael_Z Posts: 8,981

    Charles said:

    DavidL said:

    JohnLoony said:

    I didn't know much about what Macron actually stands for, so I looked on Wikipedia. It has a load of waffle such as:

    in favor of the free market
    "liberal"
    "neither right nor left"
    "a collective solidarity."
    "I am not a socialist."
    presents himself as both a "leftist" and a "liberal."
    Macron's stated aim is to transcend the left-right divide
    "neither pro-european, eurosceptic nor a federalist in the classical sense"

    which, collectively and cumulatively, is rather off-putting. It's a bit like a Fianna Fáil position of staying in power and managing and fiddling, but not having a proper philosophy. It left me thinking that I would want to vote for Fillon in order to stop Macron getting into the 2nd round, rather than wanting to vote for Fillon in order to stop Le Pen from winning.

    A bland, boring canvas onto which people can paint their own agenda. Sounds a bit like new Labour doesn't it? Doesn't mean that David is wrong of course but is someone like this really going to address France's fairly deep rooted problems ?
    He is close to a friend of mine (same person who was giving me instructions guy on the French views on the Brexit negotiations). Very charming, excellent negotiator. No discernable principles. Typical investment banker - says what he needs to in order to seal the deal while maintaining maximum room for manoeuvre
    Macron seems to have " worked " as an investment banker for all of two minutes and walked away with a few million euros. What's up with that, Charles ?
    http://www.thedailymash.co.uk/news/business/french-trader-was-forced-to-work-30-hours-a-week-20080125680

    "

    French Trader Was Forced To Work 30 Hours A Week
    25-01-08

    FRIENDS of rogue trader Jerome Kerviel last night blamed his $7 billion losses on unbearable levels of stress brought on by a punishing 30 hour week.

    Kerviel was known to start work as early as nine in the morning and still be at his desk at five or even five-thirty, often with just an hour and a half for lunch.

    One colleague said: “He was, how you say, une workaholique.

    “I have a family and a mistress so I would leave the office at around 2pm at the latest, if I wasn’t on strike.

    “But Jerome was tied to that desk. One day I came back to the office at 3pm because I had forgotten my stupid little hat, and there he was, fast asleep on the photocopier.

    “At first I assumed he had been having sex with it, but then I remembered he’d been working for almost six hours.”
  • JackWJackW Posts: 14,787
    Ishmael_Z said:

    malcolmg said:

    Final message from Plato? "Tell Mike it was only politics. I always liked him."

    Don't tell me Plato is banned now as well, what was the crime.
    'tis the Reign of Terror, malc.
    JackW said:

    Final message from Plato? "Tell Mike it was only politics. I always liked him."

    As she spoke from the scaffold ....

    @Plato gave the axeman a purse of pink silk embroidered with silver wire. She forgave him and placed her head on the block as her adherents wept softy.

    Some onlookers thought they glimpsed the balding, statuesque but dominating figure of a man from behind a fine Aubusson tapestry screen. Was it him ?!?

    The axe fell and @Plato was delivered into the oblivion of ConHome. Attendants dipped their computer screen cloths in the blood. There was a chill in the air as an AV thread moved the crowds back to the comfort of familiar matters ....

    Absolutely.

    She nothing common did or mean
    Upon that memorable scene,
    But with her keener eye
    The axe’s edge did try;
    Nor call’d the gods with vulgar spite
    To vindicate her helpless right,
    But bowed her comely head
    Down as upon a bed.
    Some say you are a marvel(l) .... others tell the truth .... :smile:
This discussion has been closed.