Howdy, Stranger!

It looks like you're new here. Sign in or register to get started.

politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Don’t get complacent – Scotland’s future in the Union is hangi

1356

Comments

  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,454

    PlatoSaid said:

    This has a couple of interesting nuggets on surveillance hopping.

    http://truepundit.com/confession-of-fbi-insider-backs-trump-we-tamper-with-wiretaps-evidence-can-eavesdrop-on-your-phones-with-no-warrant/

    I've been reading a few IC stories from ex operatives - many are fascinating glimpses, Dan Bongino is ex SS and worth a read if you come across him.

    I rather suspect that’s people going rogue. Doesn’t mean that the wiretap or whatever was ordered, or that any info was passed on.
    I think we can assume that if it happened - rogue or not - it was passed on. Otherwise, why do it - to make mix tapes for personal use? Right.....
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,535
    Ishmael_Z said:

    At the invitation of the PM of Hungary, to be fair. "Hungarian prime minister Viktor Orban says his country will open its arms to west Europeans fleeing mass immigration and “the lords of globalist politics”. http://www.breitbart.com/london/2017/02/11/hungary-will-welcome-true-refugees-germans-french-others-seeking-europe-lost-homelands/

    Just imagine if a bienpensant UK Remainer had a second home in Hungary, and Griffin moved in next door. What a sitcom that would make.
    ...and this country is still allowed to remain in the EU?
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,735
    Mr. Mortimer, pro-Europeans? Do you mean eurofederalists?

    On moderation: doesn't everyone consider themselves fairly moderate and define extremity as the degree to which someone's opinion differs from their own? It's the same self-centred perspective that led the old Church to teach the Earth was the centre of the universe, or modern warmists to insist the climate changing simply must be due to human activity. We also see it with maps, with every country (naturally) putting themselves in the centre.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 95,979

    Ishmael_Z said:

    At the invitation of the PM of Hungary, to be fair. "Hungarian prime minister Viktor Orban says his country will open its arms to west Europeans fleeing mass immigration and “the lords of globalist politics”. http://www.breitbart.com/london/2017/02/11/hungary-will-welcome-true-refugees-germans-french-others-seeking-europe-lost-homelands/

    Just imagine if a bienpensant UK Remainer had a second home in Hungary, and Griffin moved in next door. What a sitcom that would make.
    ...and this country is still allowed to remain in the EU?
    It's a bloody hassle for someone to leave voluntarily, can you imagine the hassle trying to expel a member?
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 56,999
    HYUFD said:

    RobD said:

    RobD said:

    DEPUTY First Minister Nicola Sturgeon has warned that ­keeping an independent ­Scotland out of the EU could mean people from other European nations living in Scotland could “lose the right to stay here”.

    Ms Sturgeon suggested that the 160,000 non-British citizens from other EU members states now resident in Scottish cities and towns could be stripped of their residency rights if Scotland was “outside Europe”.


    http://www.scotsman.com/news/politics/sturgeon-warns-europeans-could-lose-right-to-stay-1-3475453

    Oh dear. Compare and contrast with the UK government's talk on the topic.
    I'm surprised Carlotta isn't busy comparing and contrasting the global leadership of the EU on free trade with 'global' Britain's local difficulties.
    Global leadership on free trade? You are having a laugh, aren't you? :smiley:
    http://europe.newsweek.com/merkel-abe-endorse-free-trade-jabs-trump-rhetoric-570734

    Every door Liam Fox knocks on, the European Commission is already there.
    The EU presently has no free trade deal with the US, Australia, New Zealand, India, Saudi Arabia or China to mention just a few
    There are a number of treaties governing EU-US trade, so it is misleading to claim that the two do business on "WTO terms".
  • FF43FF43 Posts: 17,208
    Ishmael_Z said:

    At the invitation of the PM of Hungary, to be fair. "Hungarian prime minister Viktor Orban says his country will open its arms to west Europeans fleeing mass immigration and “the lords of globalist politics”. http://www.breitbart.com/london/2017/02/11/hungary-will-welcome-true-refugees-germans-french-others-seeking-europe-lost-homelands/

    Just imagine if a bienpensant UK Remainer had a second home in Hungary, and Griffin moved in next door. What a sitcom that would make.
    Interesting word, bien-pensant. It tends to be used in pot calling the kettle black situations by people who lack self-awareness.
  • rural_voterrural_voter Posts: 2,038

    So, wheres this 4th May general election rumour come from then?

    Sunday Times column. Seems regional agents and candidates in Tory party are preparing themselves for May 4th. Whether they have been given the nod to do so, or doing it out of own volition, is not clear. Seems they may just be sniffing the wind and smelling a possible election.

    There are a load of reasons now to go for an early GE.

    Only one against: May said she wont.

    So there wont be one.
    It all depends. Do her principles - as a vicar's daughter, no less - triumph over her political instincts, which will be to maximise her majority (and to ignore wise Tory comments of the past that large majorities make for bad govt.)

    Forcing PMs in normal circumstances to stick to a 4- or 5-yearly term is good for democracy. Not that we don't need more reforms - e.g., PR, writing down more of our constitution - but the FTPA was a good start.

    I suppose we have the Lib.Dems to thank for it ... and for the ~£11k tax threshold.
  • Mr. Mortimer, pro-Europeans? Do you mean eurofederalists?

    On moderation: doesn't everyone consider themselves fairly moderate and define extremity as the degree to which someone's opinion differs from their own? It's the same self-centred perspective that led the old Church to teach the Earth was the centre of the universe, or modern warmists to insist the climate changing simply must be due to human activity. We also see it with maps, with every country (naturally) putting themselves in the centre.

    It's certainly true that anyone who drives more slowly than me is an utter idiot and that anyone who goes faster is an out and out maniac.
  • Ishmael_ZIshmael_Z Posts: 8,981

    Ishmael_Z said:

    At the invitation of the PM of Hungary, to be fair. "Hungarian prime minister Viktor Orban says his country will open its arms to west Europeans fleeing mass immigration and “the lords of globalist politics”. http://www.breitbart.com/london/2017/02/11/hungary-will-welcome-true-refugees-germans-french-others-seeking-europe-lost-homelands/

    Just imagine if a bienpensant UK Remainer had a second home in Hungary, and Griffin moved in next door. What a sitcom that would make.
    ...and this country is still allowed to remain in the EU?
    ...with not a whisper of a reprimand from Brussels, nor complaint from Remainers who are prepared to diagnose tolerant old Blighty as a racist hellhole. Why would we want to stay in a club with members like this?
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 37,240
    Ishmael_Z said:

    Ishmael_Z said:

    At the invitation of the PM of Hungary, to be fair. "Hungarian prime minister Viktor Orban says his country will open its arms to west Europeans fleeing mass immigration and “the lords of globalist politics”. http://www.breitbart.com/london/2017/02/11/hungary-will-welcome-true-refugees-germans-french-others-seeking-europe-lost-homelands/

    Just imagine if a bienpensant UK Remainer had a second home in Hungary, and Griffin moved in next door. What a sitcom that would make.
    ...and this country is still allowed to remain in the EU?
    ...with not a whisper of a reprimand from Brussels, nor complaint from Remainers who are prepared to diagnose tolerant old Blighty as a racist hellhole. Why would we want to stay in a club with members like this?
    In general, I'd consider post-Brexit Britain to be one of the least racist parts of Europe.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,735
    F1: article on what is (perhaps rightly) dubbed as the most important season for a while:
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/formula1/39274891

    I especially liked the opening about declining TV audiences. I wonder why they're falling in the UK...
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 37,240
    kle4 said:

    So, wheres this 4th May general election rumour come from then?

    Sunday Times column. Seems regional agents and candidates in Tory party are preparing themselves for May 4th. Whether they have been given the nod to do so, or doing it out of own volition, is not clear. Seems they may just be sniffing the wind and smelling a possible election.

    There are a load of reasons now to go for an early GE.

    Only one against: May said she wont.

    So there wont be one.
    There are more reasons than that. Not least because if the only reason were that May said she won't, but there were all those other good reasons to have one, she would change her mind, should change her min in fact, since sticking to a POV when there are, by your reckoning, no reasons to do so, would be downright silly.
    There are elections in the Counties, Scotland and Wales to prepare for, in any case.
  • MortimerMortimer Posts: 14,114

    Mr. Mortimer, pro-Europeans? Do you mean eurofederalists?

    On moderation: doesn't everyone consider themselves fairly moderate and define extremity as the degree to which someone's opinion differs from their own? It's the same self-centred perspective that led the old Church to teach the Earth was the centre of the universe, or modern warmists to insist the climate changing simply must be due to human activity. We also see it with maps, with every country (naturally) putting themselves in the centre.

    Eurofeds are at the very extremes - a fringe interest. Actual voters keen on the EU are also towards the extremes of the common ground of the British people.
  • JackWJackW Posts: 14,787

    F1: article on what is (perhaps rightly) dubbed as the most important season for a while:
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/formula1/39274891

    I especially liked the opening about declining TV audiences. I wonder why they're falling in the UK...

    An abun(Morris)dance of pre-race information? .... :sunglasses:
  • Sean_F said:

    Ishmael_Z said:

    Ishmael_Z said:

    At the invitation of the PM of Hungary, to be fair. "Hungarian prime minister Viktor Orban says his country will open its arms to west Europeans fleeing mass immigration and “the lords of globalist politics”. http://www.breitbart.com/london/2017/02/11/hungary-will-welcome-true-refugees-germans-french-others-seeking-europe-lost-homelands/

    Just imagine if a bienpensant UK Remainer had a second home in Hungary, and Griffin moved in next door. What a sitcom that would make.
    ...and this country is still allowed to remain in the EU?
    ...with not a whisper of a reprimand from Brussels, nor complaint from Remainers who are prepared to diagnose tolerant old Blighty as a racist hellhole. Why would we want to stay in a club with members like this?
    In general, I'd consider post-Brexit Britain to be one of the least racist parts of Europe.
    Nah, it's full of racist, xenophobic, little England nationalists. It's that bad, even Nick Griffin wants to get out!
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,735
    Mr. W, that reminds me, my own wisdom and insight (ahem) on the season ahead is available here:
    http://enormo-haddock.blogspot.co.uk/2017/03/testing-times-part-two.html
  • logical_songlogical_song Posts: 9,908
    Ishmael_Z said:

    At the invitation of the PM of Hungary, to be fair. "Hungarian prime minister Viktor Orban says his country will open its arms to west Europeans fleeing mass immigration and “the lords of globalist politics”. http://www.breitbart.com/london/2017/02/11/hungary-will-welcome-true-refugees-germans-french-others-seeking-europe-lost-homelands/

    Just imagine if a bienpensant UK Remainer had a second home in Hungary, and Griffin moved in next door. What a sitcom that would make.
    'Hate Thy Neighbour'?
  • nunununu Posts: 6,024

    Sean_F said:

    Ishmael_Z said:

    Ishmael_Z said:

    At the invitation of the PM of Hungary, to be fair. "Hungarian prime minister Viktor Orban says his country will open its arms to west Europeans fleeing mass immigration and “the lords of globalist politics”. http://www.breitbart.com/london/2017/02/11/hungary-will-welcome-true-refugees-germans-french-others-seeking-europe-lost-homelands/

    Just imagine if a bienpensant UK Remainer had a second home in Hungary, and Griffin moved in next door. What a sitcom that would make.
    ...and this country is still allowed to remain in the EU?
    ...with not a whisper of a reprimand from Brussels, nor complaint from Remainers who are prepared to diagnose tolerant old Blighty as a racist hellhole. Why would we want to stay in a club with members like this?
    In general, I'd consider post-Brexit Britain to be one of the least racist parts of Europe.
    Nah, it's full of racist, xenophobic, little England nationalists. It's that bad, even Nick Griffin wants to get out!
    Nick and Meeks should get on like a house on fire.
  • PlatoSaidPlatoSaid Posts: 10,383
    edited March 2017
    This is depressing reading

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4329748/Labour-councillors-helped-create-jihadi-breeding-ground.html

    "During his time inside, Sparkbrook has become synonymous with Islamic extremism; one in ten of all Britain’s convicted Islamic terrorists, we now know, have come from Sparkbrook (population 30,000) and four adjoining council wards.

    In total, these highly concentrated Muslim enclaves, occupying a few square miles of the city, have produced 26 of the country’s 269 known jihadis convicted in Britain of terror offences.

    The disturbing statistic is contained in the most comprehensive study of terror convictions in the UK...

    The difference between Muslim communities in Birmingham and Leicester highlights this. Leicester, with a significant but more widely dispersed Muslim population, has bred only two convicted terrorists over the past two decades compared with the 26 from in and around Sparkbrook, which is more than 70 per cent Muslim.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,575
    rcs1000 said:

    HYUFD said:

    RobD said:

    RobD said:

    DEPUTY First Minister Nicola Sturgeon has warned that ­keeping an independent ­Scotland out of the EU could mean people from other European nations living in Scotland could “lose the right to stay here”.

    Ms Sturgeon suggested that the 160,000 non-British citizens from other EU members states now resident in Scottish cities and towns could be stripped of their residency rights if Scotland was “outside Europe”.


    http://www.scotsman.com/news/politics/sturgeon-warns-europeans-could-lose-right-to-stay-1-3475453

    Oh dear. Compare and contrast with the UK government's talk on the topic.
    I'm surprised Carlotta isn't busy comparing and contrasting the global leadership of the EU on free trade with 'global' Britain's local difficulties.
    Global leadership on free trade? You are having a laugh, aren't you? :smiley:
    http://europe.newsweek.com/merkel-abe-endorse-free-trade-jabs-trump-rhetoric-570734

    Every door Liam Fox knocks on, the European Commission is already there.
    The EU presently has no free trade deal with the US, Australia, New Zealand, India, Saudi Arabia or China to mention just a few
    There are a number of treaties governing EU-US trade, so it is misleading to claim that the two do business on "WTO terms".
    No FTA agreement though
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,380

    PlatoSaid said:

    This has a couple of interesting nuggets on surveillance hopping.

    http://truepundit.com/confession-of-fbi-insider-backs-trump-we-tamper-with-wiretaps-evidence-can-eavesdrop-on-your-phones-with-no-warrant/

    I've been reading a few IC stories from ex operatives - many are fascinating glimpses, Dan Bongino is ex SS and worth a read if you come across him.

    I rather suspect that’s people going rogue. Doesn’t mean that the wiretap or whatever was ordered, or that any info was passed on.
    I think we can assume that if it happened - rogue or not - it was passed on. Otherwise, why do it - to make mix tapes for personal use? Right.....
    Because there was nothing to pass on?
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 41,872
    edited March 2017
    Ishmael_Z said:

    At the invitation of the PM of Hungary, to be fair. "Hungarian prime minister Viktor Orban says his country will open its arms to west Europeans fleeing mass immigration and “the lords of globalist politics”. http://www.breitbart.com/london/2017/02/11/hungary-will-welcome-true-refugees-germans-french-others-seeking-europe-lost-homelands/

    Just imagine if a bienpensant UK Remainer had a second home in Hungary, and Griffin moved in next door. What a sitcom that would make.
    I wonder if Nick will be taking his pigs (if they haven't been finally solved) Anne and Frank with him? Which would be worse for the bien pensant, Nick gurning over the garden fence or the smell of pig shit?

    Edit: I see the piggies are long ago consumed. Still, Nick has hilariously transferred the names to his two rotweillers.
  • CD13CD13 Posts: 6,366
    edited March 2017
    Apologies for going off-topic but I find the current furore about diesel engines slightly irritating. A few years ago (Tony was in his full pomp), and I'd moved form the Pharmaceutical industry to work for the Government's shilling, I received a phone call from a University scientist who wanted to talk about his research on the toxicology of PM10s, PM2.5s and PM1s.

    As it happened I was aware of this, so I listened with interest, He wanted me to influence the Government's policies. I thanked him for his faith in me, but had to explain it was totally misplaced. I was only a scientist at a junior level and the Government (of any description) only listened to things that were politically appealing. Carbon dioxide and global warming was the only game in town. Diesel was good, petrol was bad, and that was dogma.

    Now things have changed, but don't let anyone tell you that the facts ever changed. We've had more confirmation of what we knew anyway. But politicians' mantra has always been that scientists should be on tap, not on top. Now diesel has become Satan, these politicians have ignored their previous enthusiasms and switched totally. It didn't take new facts, it took new fashions. The media has always been the child, bewitched by the shiny and new, and the politicians have generally been the doting parent. "Ah, bless, aren't they sweet."

    I was young once, but my cynicism has been learned.

    I sometimes wish politicians would for once, not meddle with things they don't understand, or more often, don't want to understand. Unfortunately, that is also a recipe for an obscure political career.

    I understand that these changes can take time. Tobacco smoke, lead in petrol needed to be considered on an overall basis. Global warming has far more confounding factors than either. Carbon dioxide is almost certainly a factor, but it has the good fortune to be fashionable.

    Oh well, mini-rant over.

  • Mr. Mortimer, pro-Europeans? Do you mean eurofederalists?

    On moderation: doesn't everyone consider themselves fairly moderate and define extremity as the degree to which someone's opinion differs from their own? It's the same self-centred perspective that led the old Church to teach the Earth was the centre of the universe, or modern warmists to insist the climate changing simply must be due to human activity. We also see it with maps, with every country (naturally) putting themselves in the centre.

    At various times some intellectually challenged PBers have called me a hard leftie and a far right Tory.

    Averaging that out, that makes me a centrist, which is true as I'm probably a Gladstonian Liberal.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,735
    Mr. Eagles, that's deeply unfair on you. You're clearly a colourblind fellow with a shockingly poor grasp of history.

    Mr. CD13, a similar thing (only without recanting) has happened with the polygraph. The polygraph, a so-called lie detector (it is not), is used on paedophiles out of prison. This is especially stupid as, possibly excepting psychopaths, paedophiles are amongst the finest liars. Labour introduced this, and the Coalition continued it. It's indefensibly stupid.

    Polygraphs don't detect lies. They detect changes in autonomic physiology. An innocent man might be nervous at being wired up, and 'lie'. A dodgy swine might be a good liar, stay relaxed, and 'tell the truth'.

    Here's an article I wrote a few years ago:
    http://thaddeusthesixth.blogspot.co.uk/2014/05/the-polygraph-work-of-science-fiction.html
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 41,872

    Mr. Mortimer, pro-Europeans? Do you mean eurofederalists?

    On moderation: doesn't everyone consider themselves fairly moderate and define extremity as the degree to which someone's opinion differs from their own? It's the same self-centred perspective that led the old Church to teach the Earth was the centre of the universe, or modern warmists to insist the climate changing simply must be due to human activity. We also see it with maps, with every country (naturally) putting themselves in the centre.

    At various times some intellectually challenged PBers have called me a hard leftie and a far right Tory.

    Averaging that out, that makes me a centrist, which is true as I'm probably a Gladstonian Liberal.
    With associated work among fallen women I trust?
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,256
    RoyalBlue said:

    The Scots will stay. Ruth will fight a much more 'gloves off' campaign than Darling.

    LOL, spoken like a true southerner
  • JackWJackW Posts: 14,787
    edited March 2017

    Mr. Mortimer, pro-Europeans? Do you mean eurofederalists?

    On moderation: doesn't everyone consider themselves fairly moderate and define extremity as the degree to which someone's opinion differs from their own? It's the same self-centred perspective that led the old Church to teach the Earth was the centre of the universe, or modern warmists to insist the climate changing simply must be due to human activity. We also see it with maps, with every country (naturally) putting themselves in the centre.

    At various times some intellectually challenged PBers have called me a hard leftie and a far right Tory.

    Averaging that out, that makes me a centrist, which is true as I'm probably a Gladstonian Liberal.
    I wondered why you had been seen visiting Manchester red light districts in your best red shoes .....
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 37,240

    Mr. Eagles, that's deeply unfair on you. You're clearly a colourblind fellow with a shockingly poor grasp of history.

    Mr. CD13, a similar thing (only without recanting) has happened with the polygraph. The polygraph, a so-called lie detector (it is not), is used on paedophiles out of prison. This is especially stupid as, possibly excepting psychopaths, paedophiles are amongst the finest liars. Labour introduced this, and the Coalition continued it. It's indefensibly stupid.

    Polygraphs don't detect lies. They detect changes in autonomic physiology. An innocent man might be nervous at being wired up, and 'lie'. A dodgy swine might be a good liar, stay relaxed, and 'tell the truth'.

    Here's an article I wrote a few years ago:
    http://thaddeusthesixth.blogspot.co.uk/2014/05/the-polygraph-work-of-science-fiction.html

    Polygraphs are about as scientific as phrenology.
  • Mr. Mortimer, pro-Europeans? Do you mean eurofederalists?

    On moderation: doesn't everyone consider themselves fairly moderate and define extremity as the degree to which someone's opinion differs from their own? It's the same self-centred perspective that led the old Church to teach the Earth was the centre of the universe, or modern warmists to insist the climate changing simply must be due to human activity. We also see it with maps, with every country (naturally) putting themselves in the centre.

    At various times some intellectually challenged PBers have called me a hard leftie and a far right Tory.

    Averaging that out, that makes me a centrist, which is true as I'm probably a Gladstonian Liberal.
    With associated work among fallen women I trust?
    I leave that to SeanT.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,735
    Mr. F, aye, but the political class treat them as science. It's utterly indefensible. There are at least half a dozen ways to fool one (my personal favourite is slipping into a trance), the worst of which is simply being good at lying.
  • JackW said:

    Mr. Mortimer, pro-Europeans? Do you mean eurofederalists?

    On moderation: doesn't everyone consider themselves fairly moderate and define extremity as the degree to which someone's opinion differs from their own? It's the same self-centred perspective that led the old Church to teach the Earth was the centre of the universe, or modern warmists to insist the climate changing simply must be due to human activity. We also see it with maps, with every country (naturally) putting themselves in the centre.

    At various times some intellectually challenged PBers have called me a hard leftie and a far right Tory.

    Averaging that out, that makes me a centrist, which is true as I'm probably a Gladstonian Liberal.
    I wondered why you had been seen visiting Manchester red light districts in your best red shoes .....
    Well one of them is on my route to work and the other is a bar I spend in time in a hotel where all the high priced Russian courtesans stay at.

    Honest.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,256

    That just leaves a Unilateral Declaration of Independence, a nuclear option floated by one conference delegate at a fringe meeting on Friday afternoon. The SNP, however, simply isn’t that daring. Clapping in the House of Commons is about as radical as they get; their days of direct action and (properly) disrupting parliament were long ago jettisoned in favour of respectability.

    So that leaves the final and most likely option following Wednesday’s Holyrood vote, yet more sound and fury. Nationalists are generally good at this and can, if necessary, keep it up for several years, which they might well have to do if Mrs May sticks to her guns about not even discussing a Section 30 order until after Brexit has “bedded in”, whatever that might mean.


    http://www.heraldscotland.com/opinion/15167344.David_Torrance__Prepare_for_a_long__slow_dance_around_the_timing_of_an_independence_referendum/?ref=rss

    The loons are out of their beds, cauldrons must be fired up and now they start posting the usual drivel
  • timmotimmo Posts: 1,469
    We have the Lib Dems to thank for everything good that took place between 2010-15 and the Tories for everything bad... simples
  • JackWJackW Posts: 14,787

    JackW said:

    Mr. Mortimer, pro-Europeans? Do you mean eurofederalists?

    On moderation: doesn't everyone consider themselves fairly moderate and define extremity as the degree to which someone's opinion differs from their own? It's the same self-centred perspective that led the old Church to teach the Earth was the centre of the universe, or modern warmists to insist the climate changing simply must be due to human activity. We also see it with maps, with every country (naturally) putting themselves in the centre.

    At various times some intellectually challenged PBers have called me a hard leftie and a far right Tory.

    Averaging that out, that makes me a centrist, which is true as I'm probably a Gladstonian Liberal.
    I wondered why you had been seen visiting Manchester red light districts in your best red shoes .....
    Well one of them is on my route to work and the other is a bar I spend in time in a hotel where all the high priced Russian courtesans stay at.

    Honest.
    I'm sure your barrister believed you.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 70,790
    FF43 said:

    Ishmael_Z said:

    At the invitation of the PM of Hungary, to be fair. "Hungarian prime minister Viktor Orban says his country will open its arms to west Europeans fleeing mass immigration and “the lords of globalist politics”. http://www.breitbart.com/london/2017/02/11/hungary-will-welcome-true-refugees-germans-french-others-seeking-europe-lost-homelands/

    Just imagine if a bienpensant UK Remainer had a second home in Hungary, and Griffin moved in next door. What a sitcom that would make.
    Interesting word, bien-pensant. It tends to be used in pot calling the kettle black situations by people who lack self-awareness.
    Preferable, though, to be so described rather than as a 'mal-pensant social injustice warrior' ?
  • CyanCyan Posts: 1,262

    Alistair said:

    Amazed at all these fresh new voices in Scotish journalism criticising the SNP.

    They'll rue the day. The Party will shut their lying mouths.
    If Scotland becomes independent, the SNP would be likely to lose the first election by a big margin. So yes, it could well attempt to shut its opponents' mouths and cement itself in office. Many don't realise just how ugly some of the possibilities are.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,256
    Patrick said:

    Am I right inunderstanding that wee Jimmie Krankie has decided to go for another referendum on the grounds that Scotland might be leaving the EU - but simultaneously has abandoned plans for an independent Scotland to rejoin the EU because, err, most Scots aren't very big on the idea of it?
    Maybe that nice Mrs May should insist that the referendum question references the EU.

    when you are down to personal insults it shows you have nothing to say and are scared Patrick. Desperate stuff on here, misogyny ever to the fore.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 41,872
    One less 'Unionist' council candidate.

    https://twitter.com/T_Socialist/status/843578317349572608
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,535
    PlatoSaid said:

    This is depressing reading

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4329748/Labour-councillors-helped-create-jihadi-breeding-ground.html

    "During his time inside, Sparkbrook has become synonymous with Islamic extremism; one in ten of all Britain’s convicted Islamic terrorists, we now know, have come from Sparkbrook (population 30,000) and four adjoining council wards.

    In total, these highly concentrated Muslim enclaves, occupying a few square miles of the city, have produced 26 of the country’s 269 known jihadis convicted in Britain of terror offences.

    The disturbing statistic is contained in the most comprehensive study of terror convictions in the UK...

    The difference between Muslim communities in Birmingham and Leicester highlights this. Leicester, with a significant but more widely dispersed Muslim population, has bred only two convicted terrorists over the past two decades compared with the 26 from in and around Sparkbrook, which is more than 70 per cent Muslim.

    Er, old news alert. I am sure I read all this in another paper several months ago.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,256

    Sean_F said:

    Ishmael_Z said:

    Ishmael_Z said:

    At the invitation of the PM of Hungary, to be fair. "Hungarian prime minister Viktor Orban says his country will open its arms to west Europeans fleeing mass immigration and “the lords of globalist politics”. http://www.breitbart.com/london/2017/02/11/hungary-will-welcome-true-refugees-germans-french-others-seeking-europe-lost-homelands/

    Just imagine if a bienpensant UK Remainer had a second home in Hungary, and Griffin moved in next door. What a sitcom that would make.
    ...and this country is still allowed to remain in the EU?
    ...with not a whisper of a reprimand from Brussels, nor complaint from Remainers who are prepared to diagnose tolerant old Blighty as a racist hellhole. Why would we want to stay in a club with members like this?
    In general, I'd consider post-Brexit Britain to be one of the least racist parts of Europe.
    Nah, it's full of racist, xenophobic, little England nationalists. It's that bad, even Nick Griffin wants to get out!
    How the mighty have fallen, the rats want out.
  • Part 963 million of why you never ever want to serve time in an American prison.

    On June 23, 2012, Darren Rainey, a schizophrenic man serving time for cocaine possession, was thrown into a prison shower at the Dade Correctional Institution. The water was turned up top 180 degrees — hot enough to steep tea or cook Ramen noodles.

    As punishment, four corrections officers — John Fan Fan, Cornelius Thompson, Ronald Clarke and Edwina Williams — kept Rainey in that shower for two full hours. Rainey was heard screaming "Please take me out! I can’t take it anymore!” and kicking the shower door. Inmates said prison guards laughed at Rainey and shouted "Is it hot enough?"

    Rainey died inside that shower. He was found crumpled on the floor. When his body was pulled out, nurses said there were burns on 90 percent of his body. A nurse said his body temperature was too high to register with a thermometer. And his skin fell off at the touch.

    But in an unconscionable decision, Miami-Dade State Attorney Katherine Fernandez Rundle's office announced Friday that the four guards who oversaw what amounted to a medieval-era boiling will not be charged with a crime.

    “The shower was itself neither dangerous nor unsafe,’’ the report says. “The evidence does not show that Rainey’s well-being was grossly disregarded by the correctional staff.’’


    http://www.miaminewtimes.com/news/florida-wont-charge-prison-guards-who-boiled-schizophrenic-black-man-darren-rainey-to-death-9213190
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 70,790
    PlatoSaid said:

    This has a couple of interesting nuggets on surveillance hopping.

    http://truepundit.com/confession-of-fbi-insider-backs-trump-we-tamper-with-wiretaps-evidence-can-eavesdrop-on-your-phones-with-no-warrant/

    I've been reading a few IC stories from ex operatives - many are fascinating glimpses, Dan Bongino is ex SS and worth a read if you come across him.


    The likelihood of the FBI (or another agency) engaging in such shenanigans against a presidential candidate is low, to put it mildly.
    Particularly when more legitimate (in the strict legal sense) methods are readily available:
    https://www.emptywheel.net/2017/03/17/ron-wydens-complaints-about-section-702/
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,256
    Cyan said:

    Alistair said:

    Amazed at all these fresh new voices in Scotish journalism criticising the SNP.

    They'll rue the day. The Party will shut their lying mouths.
    If Scotland becomes independent, the SNP would be likely to lose the first election by a big margin. So yes, it could well attempt to shut its opponents' mouths and cement itself in office. Many don't realise just how ugly some of the possibilities are.
    CUCKOO
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,735
    Mr. Eagles, that's bloody monstrous.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,380
    kle4 said:

    So, wheres this 4th May general election rumour come from then?

    Floating around the internet for months, helped along by reports of higher than usual spending in CCHQ and 'reports' of parties being prepared for emergency selections just in cases, I think.
    Is the higher spending on lawyers fees for the forthcoming cases?
  • Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 13,677
    Ishmael_Z said:



    Just imagine if a bienpensant UK Remainer had a second home in Hungary, and Griffin moved in next door. What a sitcom that would make.

    Only When I Fash, Whiteadder, etc.

  • JackWJackW Posts: 14,787
    malcolmg said:

    Cyan said:

    Alistair said:

    Amazed at all these fresh new voices in Scotish journalism criticising the SNP.

    They'll rue the day. The Party will shut their lying mouths.
    If Scotland becomes independent, the SNP would be likely to lose the first election by a big margin. So yes, it could well attempt to shut its opponents' mouths and cement itself in office. Many don't realise just how ugly some of the possibilities are.
    CUCKOO
    It is the Spring equinox today .... :smile:
  • FF43FF43 Posts: 17,208
    edited March 2017
    CD13 said:

    Apologies for going off-topic but I find the current furore about diesel engines slightly irritating. A few years ago (Tony was in his full pomp), and I'd moved form the Pharmaceutical industry to work for the Government's shilling, I received a phone call from a University scientist who wanted to talk about his research on the toxicology of PM10s, PM2.5s and PM1s.

    As it happened I was aware of this, so I listened with interest, He wanted me to influence the Government's policies. I thanked him for his faith in me, but had to explain it was totally misplaced. I was only a scientist at a junior level and the Government (of any description) only listened to things that were politically appealing. Carbon dioxide and global warming was the only game in town. Diesel was good, petrol was bad, and that was dogma.

    Now things have changed, but don't let anyone tell you that the facts ever changed. We've had more confirmation of what we knew anyway. But politicians' mantra has always been that scientists should be on tap, not on top. Now diesel has become Satan, these politicians have ignored their previous enthusiasms and switched totally. It didn't take new facts, it took new fashions. The media has always been the child, bewitched by the shiny and new, and the politicians have generally been the doting parent. "Ah, bless, aren't they sweet."

    I was young once, but my cynicism has been learned.

    I sometimes wish politicians would for once, not meddle with things they don't understand, or more often, don't want to understand. Unfortunately, that is also a recipe for an obscure political career.

    I understand that these changes can take time. Tobacco smoke, lead in petrol needed to be considered on an overall basis. Global warming has far more confounding factors than either. Carbon dioxide is almost certainly a factor, but it has the good fortune to be fashionable.

    Oh well, mini-rant over.

    To be somewhat fair to politicians, they have lots of different interests to balance and to resolve. In this case, doing something about climate change and boosting their own car industries. So if diesel engines emit less CO2 than gasoline ones and they can support a European industry strength with lots of lovely R&D, it's a win/win. Diesel engines can be made as clean as petrol ones, but it comes with cost and performance penalties, so both car manufacturers and governments were happy to take the shortcut. It's more a lack of coherent thinking than governments ignoring scientists. Scientists wouldn't make those trade-offs and can't be expected to do so.
  • CyanCyan Posts: 1,262
    French election news.

    1) Dupont-Aignan's interview walkout has been a great success: the video has had 11 million hits on Facebook.

    Comment
    As any well-trained salesperson (or betting psychologist) knows, people feel committed once they have made an investment. The audience for tonight's debate among the chosen Five is unlikely to be hugely bigger than 11 million. This is the first time TV debates will be held before the whole-spectrum open primary (the "first round") takes place on 23 April. Audiences for between-the-rounds debates in the most recent four elections, going backwards, were 18m, 20m, n/a (Chirac wouldn't), and 17m.

    2) Dupont-Aignan has changed his position on the euro, and now says he wants to retain its "good sides" and to engage in a monetary coordination that is more supple.

    Comment
    He's selling himself as standing up to Germany.

    3) Macron says he wants to reintroduce conscription.

    Comment
    Did this seriously play well in the focus groups?

    4) Fillon has apologised for pubishing (on Twitter) a cartoon of Macron which has been called anti-Semitic.

    Comment
    Was he trying to woo the jackboot right? Or, which is more likely in my opinion, has the poor soul no control even over his own campaign?

  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826

    Part 963 million of why you never ever want to serve time in an American prison.

    On June 23, 2012, Darren Rainey, a schizophrenic man serving time for cocaine possession, was thrown into a prison shower at the Dade Correctional Institution. The water was turned up top 180 degrees — hot enough to steep tea or cook Ramen noodles.

    As punishment, four corrections officers — John Fan Fan, Cornelius Thompson, Ronald Clarke and Edwina Williams — kept Rainey in that shower for two full hours. Rainey was heard screaming "Please take me out! I can’t take it anymore!” and kicking the shower door. Inmates said prison guards laughed at Rainey and shouted "Is it hot enough?"

    Rainey died inside that shower. He was found crumpled on the floor. When his body was pulled out, nurses said there were burns on 90 percent of his body. A nurse said his body temperature was too high to register with a thermometer. And his skin fell off at the touch.

    But in an unconscionable decision, Miami-Dade State Attorney Katherine Fernandez Rundle's office announced Friday that the four guards who oversaw what amounted to a medieval-era boiling will not be charged with a crime.

    “The shower was itself neither dangerous nor unsafe,’’ the report says. “The evidence does not show that Rainey’s well-being was grossly disregarded by the correctional staff.’’


    http://www.miaminewtimes.com/news/florida-wont-charge-prison-guards-who-boiled-schizophrenic-black-man-darren-rainey-to-death-9213190

    The medical examiners office says that this didn't happen.

    But inconveniently the body has been cremated [the case was 4 years ago] so there can be no further investigation.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 70,790

    Part 963 million of why you never ever want to serve time in an American prison.

    On June 23, 2012, Darren Rainey, a schizophrenic man serving time for cocaine possession, was thrown into a prison shower at the Dade Correctional Institution. The water was turned up top 180 degrees — hot enough to steep tea or cook Ramen noodles.

    As punishment, four corrections officers — John Fan Fan, Cornelius Thompson, Ronald Clarke and Edwina Williams — kept Rainey in that shower for two full hours. Rainey was heard screaming "Please take me out! I can’t take it anymore!” and kicking the shower door. Inmates said prison guards laughed at Rainey and shouted "Is it hot enough?"

    Rainey died inside that shower. He was found crumpled on the floor. When his body was pulled out, nurses said there were burns on 90 percent of his body. A nurse said his body temperature was too high to register with a thermometer. And his skin fell off at the touch.

    But in an unconscionable decision, Miami-Dade State Attorney Katherine Fernandez Rundle's office announced Friday that the four guards who oversaw what amounted to a medieval-era boiling will not be charged with a crime.

    “The shower was itself neither dangerous nor unsafe,’’ the report says. “The evidence does not show that Rainey’s well-being was grossly disregarded by the correctional staff.’’


    http://www.miaminewtimes.com/news/florida-wont-charge-prison-guards-who-boiled-schizophrenic-black-man-darren-rainey-to-death-9213190

    Just answering the door to the police can have unfortunate consequences in the US:
    http://www.slate.com/blogs/the_slatest/2017/03/17/appeals_court_rules_officer_who_killed_man_in_his_own_home_cannot_be_sued.html
  • David_EvershedDavid_Evershed Posts: 6,506
    How can Scotland vote to remain in the EU but not vote to remain in the UK?
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,256
    JackW said:

    malcolmg said:

    Cyan said:

    Alistair said:

    Amazed at all these fresh new voices in Scotish journalism criticising the SNP.

    They'll rue the day. The Party will shut their lying mouths.
    If Scotland becomes independent, the SNP would be likely to lose the first election by a big margin. So yes, it could well attempt to shut its opponents' mouths and cement itself in office. Many don't realise just how ugly some of the possibilities are.
    CUCKOO
    It is the Spring equinox today .... :smile:
    some out earlier and more cuckoo than others
  • David_EvershedDavid_Evershed Posts: 6,506
    UKIP seems to have lost its raison d'etre now we are leaving the EU.

    Will the SNP lose its raison d'etre if Scotland votes for independence?
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 41,872
    edited March 2017
    The Norwegians must be amazing people to remain so happy under the burdens of oil and their high rate of acceptance of refugees.

    'Norway ousts Denmark as world's happiest country – UN report'

    http://tinyurl.com/mhdyr9m
  • CyanCyan Posts: 1,262
    edited March 2017
    malcolmg said:

    Cyan said:

    Alistair said:

    Amazed at all these fresh new voices in Scotish journalism criticising the SNP.

    They'll rue the day. The Party will shut their lying mouths.
    If Scotland becomes independent, the SNP would be likely to lose the first election by a big margin. So yes, it could well attempt to shut its opponents' mouths and cement itself in office. Many don't realise just how ugly some of the possibilities are.
    CUCKOO
    OK you don't like my comment. But do you have any comment on MonikerDiCanio's statement (quite possibly ironic) that journalists who dare to criticise the SNP will "rue the day" and that "the Party will shut their lying mouths"?
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826

    UKIP seems to have lost its raison d'etre now we are leaving the EU.

    Will the SNP lose its raison d'etre if Scotland votes for independence?

    No because the SNP made the transition to party of government before independence.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 56,999
    HYUFD said:

    rcs1000 said:

    HYUFD said:

    RobD said:

    RobD said:

    DEPUTY First Minister Nicola Sturgeon has warned that ­keeping an independent ­Scotland out of the EU could mean people from other European nations living in Scotland could “lose the right to stay here”.

    Ms Sturgeon suggested that the 160,000 non-British citizens from other EU members states now resident in Scottish cities and towns could be stripped of their residency rights if Scotland was “outside Europe”.


    http://www.scotsman.com/news/politics/sturgeon-warns-europeans-could-lose-right-to-stay-1-3475453

    Oh dear. Compare and contrast with the UK government's talk on the topic.
    I'm surprised Carlotta isn't busy comparing and contrasting the global leadership of the EU on free trade with 'global' Britain's local difficulties.
    Global leadership on free trade? You are having a laugh, aren't you? :smiley:
    http://europe.newsweek.com/merkel-abe-endorse-free-trade-jabs-trump-rhetoric-570734

    Every door Liam Fox knocks on, the European Commission is already there.
    The EU presently has no free trade deal with the US, Australia, New Zealand, India, Saudi Arabia or China to mention just a few
    There are a number of treaties governing EU-US trade, so it is misleading to claim that the two do business on "WTO terms".
    No FTA agreement though
    The US has very few full FTAs (basically just NAFTA, South Korea, Israel, and Australia) because it insists that enforcement of compliance is done solely in US ISDS Tribunals. Nevertheless, the EU-US agreements are pretty comprehensive and cover areas like mutual recognition of product standards, and transfer pricing.

    It is imperative that, when we leave the EU, we replicate the existing agreements as much as possible. Given EU-US tariffs average less than 3%, it is more important that we get these harmonisations agreed than we symbolically get tariffs removed.
  • The_ApocalypseThe_Apocalypse Posts: 7,830

    Part 963 million of why you never ever want to serve time in an American prison.

    On June 23, 2012, Darren Rainey, a schizophrenic man serving time for cocaine possession, was thrown into a prison shower at the Dade Correctional Institution. The water was turned up top 180 degrees — hot enough to steep tea or cook Ramen noodles.

    As punishment, four corrections officers — John Fan Fan, Cornelius Thompson, Ronald Clarke and Edwina Williams — kept Rainey in that shower for two full hours. Rainey was heard screaming "Please take me out! I can’t take it anymore!” and kicking the shower door. Inmates said prison guards laughed at Rainey and shouted "Is it hot enough?"

    Rainey died inside that shower. He was found crumpled on the floor. When his body was pulled out, nurses said there were burns on 90 percent of his body. A nurse said his body temperature was too high to register with a thermometer. And his skin fell off at the touch.

    But in an unconscionable decision, Miami-Dade State Attorney Katherine Fernandez Rundle's office announced Friday that the four guards who oversaw what amounted to a medieval-era boiling will not be charged with a crime.

    “The shower was itself neither dangerous nor unsafe,’’ the report says. “The evidence does not show that Rainey’s well-being was grossly disregarded by the correctional staff.’’


    http://www.miaminewtimes.com/news/florida-wont-charge-prison-guards-who-boiled-schizophrenic-black-man-darren-rainey-to-death-9213190

    That is heartbreaking.

    Another reason why I'm glad that my grandparents decided to come to the UK, and not the US.

  • JackWJackW Posts: 14,787

    UKIP seems to have lost its raison d'etre now we are leaving the EU.

    Will the SNP lose its raison d'etre if Scotland votes for independence?

    Not if they are seen as a competent progressive/social democratic party that represents the prevailing mood of the majority of Scottish opinion presently.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,380

    UKIP seems to have lost its raison d'etre now we are leaving the EU.

    Will the SNP lose its raison d'etre if Scotland votes for independence?

    Of course it will. Unless it can find a new bogeyman. The splits between ‘conservatives’ and ‘liberals’ will become more important.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,058
    edited March 2017
    @FF43 @CD13

    There is no tax differential between petrol and diesel cars in the new VED rules though..
    So other than personal conscience, why would I be incentivised to (eventually) replace my diesel with a petrol ?
    I do drive a diesel, but I think the decision to maintain the same VED between otherwise identical NEW petrol and diesel cars is odd - given the evidence now available. People are choosing to buy new diesels, it isn't a past decision that people will be punished for (Always an important distinction when deciding how 'fair' this sort of tax/charge is)
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,454
    JackW said:

    UKIP seems to have lost its raison d'etre now we are leaving the EU.

    Will the SNP lose its raison d'etre if Scotland votes for independence?

    Not if they are seen as a competent progressive/social democratic party that represents the prevailing mood of the majority of Scottish opinion presently.
    The SNP has a lot of work to do to be seen to be competent at just straight vanilla governing.
  • CyanCyan Posts: 1,262

    UKIP seems to have lost its raison d'etre now we are leaving the EU.

    Will the SNP lose its raison d'etre if Scotland votes for independence?

    No because the SNP made the transition to party of government before independence.
    And it gets people, other than members and those who are connected to it, to vote for it why, exactly? Above all because it is in favour of independence. It is the YeSNP.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 41,872
    Cyan said:

    malcolmg said:

    Cyan said:

    Alistair said:

    Amazed at all these fresh new voices in Scotish journalism criticising the SNP.

    They'll rue the day. The Party will shut their lying mouths.
    If Scotland becomes independent, the SNP would be likely to lose the first election by a big margin. So yes, it could well attempt to shut its opponents' mouths and cement itself in office. Many don't realise just how ugly some of the possibilities are.
    CUCKOO
    OK you don't like my comment. But do you have any comment on MonikerDiCanio's statement (quite possibly ironic) that journalists who dare to criticise the SNP will "rue the day" and that "the Party will shut their lying mouths"?
    If you don't recognise Monica's every comment on the subject as trolling, you're even stupider than I thought.
  • The_ApocalypseThe_Apocalypse Posts: 7,830
    I actually think (as a leftie) that Osborne becoming editor of the Evening Standard is a good thing. There needs to a voice for a more liberal perspective on Brexit/Britain's place in the world - especially since Corbyn won't be doing it.

  • David_EvershedDavid_Evershed Posts: 6,506

    So, wheres this 4th May general election rumour come from then?


    It is because of ...

    "May 4th be with EU."
  • JackWJackW Posts: 14,787

    JackW said:

    UKIP seems to have lost its raison d'etre now we are leaving the EU.

    Will the SNP lose its raison d'etre if Scotland votes for independence?

    Not if they are seen as a competent progressive/social democratic party that represents the prevailing mood of the majority of Scottish opinion presently.
    The SNP has a lot of work to do to be seen to be competent at just straight vanilla governing.
    That's a matter for the Scottish electorate to decide, although the Conservative government would be pleased to enjoy the SNP share of the vote, albeit with the assistance of Jezza & Co.
  • David_EvershedDavid_Evershed Posts: 6,506
    JackW said:

    UKIP seems to have lost its raison d'etre now we are leaving the EU.

    Will the SNP lose its raison d'etre if Scotland votes for independence?

    Not if they are seen as a competent progressive/social democratic party that represents the prevailing mood of the majority of Scottish opinion presently.
    Just like UKIP then?
  • MonikerDiCanioMonikerDiCanio Posts: 5,792

    The Norwegians must be amazing people to remain so happy under the burdens of oil and their high rate of acceptance of refugees.

    'Norway ousts Denmark as world's happiest country – UN report'

    http://tinyurl.com/mhdyr9m

    What joy and happiness Nicola is missing out on by failing to honour her promise to personally house refugees.
  • JackWJackW Posts: 14,787

    So, wheres this 4th May general election rumour come from then?


    It is because of ...

    "May 4th be with EU."
    Chortle .... almost up there with the very worst/best of TSE.
  • JackWJackW Posts: 14,787

    JackW said:

    UKIP seems to have lost its raison d'etre now we are leaving the EU.

    Will the SNP lose its raison d'etre if Scotland votes for independence?

    Not if they are seen as a competent progressive/social democratic party that represents the prevailing mood of the majority of Scottish opinion presently.
    Just like UKIP then?
    Let's ponder that momentarily ....

    :smiley:
  • CyanCyan Posts: 1,262
    edited March 2017

    Cyan said:

    malcolmg said:

    Cyan said:

    Alistair said:

    Amazed at all these fresh new voices in Scotish journalism criticising the SNP.

    They'll rue the day. The Party will shut their lying mouths.
    If Scotland becomes independent, the SNP would be likely to lose the first election by a big margin. So yes, it could well attempt to shut its opponents' mouths and cement itself in office. Many don't realise just how ugly some of the possibilities are.
    CUCKOO
    OK you don't like my comment. But do you have any comment on MonikerDiCanio's statement (quite possibly ironic) that journalists who dare to criticise the SNP will "rue the day" and that "the Party will shut their lying mouths"?
    If you don't recognise Monica's every comment on the subject as trolling, you're even stupider than I thought.
    The other explanation is that I'm not committed enough to read every comment here. In my head only about five contributors have a "profile" so far.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 41,872

    The Norwegians must be amazing people to remain so happy under the burdens of oil and their high rate of acceptance of refugees.

    'Norway ousts Denmark as world's happiest country – UN report'

    http://tinyurl.com/mhdyr9m

    What joy and happiness Nicola is missing out on by failing to honour her promise to personally house refugees.
    We do things as a country.

    'Scotland has taken in more than a third of all UK's Syrian refugees '

    http://tinyurl.com/zeyrtll
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    Cyan said:

    UKIP seems to have lost its raison d'etre now we are leaving the EU.

    Will the SNP lose its raison d'etre if Scotland votes for independence?

    No because the SNP made the transition to party of government before independence.
    And it gets people, other than members and those who are connected to it, to vote for it why, exactly? Above all because it is in favour of independence. It is the YeSNP.
    Polls show up to a third of SNP voters don't want a second Independence referendum. Which means they're voting for the party of government for other reasons.
  • FF43FF43 Posts: 17,208
    FF43 said:

    To be somewhat fair to politicians, they have lots of different interests to balance and to resolve. In this case, doing something about climate change and boosting their own car industries. So if diesel engines emit less CO2 than gasoline ones and they can support a European industry strength with lots of lovely R&D, it's a win/win. Diesel engines can be made as clean as petrol ones, but it comes with cost and performance penalties, so both car manufacturers and governments were happy to take the shortcut. It's more a lack of coherent thinking than governments ignoring scientists. Scientists wouldn't make those trade-offs and can't be expected to do so.

    I went to an interesting talk about the science policy behind neonicotinoids, insecticides that turned out to have a devastating effect on pollinating bee populations. Although the compounds were tested on large insects, it was a straightforward do they die or don't they test. Neonicotindoids don't actually kill bees but they have behavioural effects that mean bees become confused and lose their instinct for self-preservation, with devastating consequences for populations.

    Governments are faced with special interest groups from industrialists who want to keep selling their products, environmentalists who are concerned about diversity with much lower pollination rates and farmers who are simultaneously for and against as they want the insecticides but are worried about their crops being pollinated.

    Governments have dealt with this by selectively banning particular neonicotinoid compounds. They can then be seen to be dealing with the problem, while industrialists can easily switch to other not yet banned compounds that have the same effect.

    The fundamental problem was with the original test, which doesn't measure what actually needs to be tested. As the target insects are killed deleteriously rather than instantly, you might expect scientists to realise a similar effect could happen on larger insects. Governments once informed that a mistake was made in the testing could now enforce a ban. Neither is happening.
  • FF43FF43 Posts: 17,208

    Cyan said:

    UKIP seems to have lost its raison d'etre now we are leaving the EU.

    Will the SNP lose its raison d'etre if Scotland votes for independence?

    No because the SNP made the transition to party of government before independence.
    And it gets people, other than members and those who are connected to it, to vote for it why, exactly? Above all because it is in favour of independence. It is the YeSNP.
    Polls show up to a third of SNP voters don't want a second Independence referendum. Which means they're voting for the party of government for other reasons.
    Not necessarily. They want independence but for tactical reasons don't think a referendum is a good idea now.
  • Ishmael_ZIshmael_Z Posts: 8,981

    Ishmael_Z said:

    At the invitation of the PM of Hungary, to be fair. "Hungarian prime minister Viktor Orban says his country will open its arms to west Europeans fleeing mass immigration and “the lords of globalist politics”. http://www.breitbart.com/london/2017/02/11/hungary-will-welcome-true-refugees-germans-french-others-seeking-europe-lost-homelands/

    Just imagine if a bienpensant UK Remainer had a second home in Hungary, and Griffin moved in next door. What a sitcom that would make.
    I wonder if Nick will be taking his pigs (if they haven't been finally solved) Anne and Frank with him? Which would be worse for the bien pensant, Nick gurning over the garden fence or the smell of pig shit?

    Edit: I see the piggies are long ago consumed. Still, Nick has hilariously transferred the names to his two rotweillers.
    Golly. I knew he was horrible, but not that horrible.
  • MonikerDiCanioMonikerDiCanio Posts: 5,792
    edited March 2017

    The Norwegians must be amazing people to remain so happy under the burdens of oil and their high rate of acceptance of refugees.

    'Norway ousts Denmark as world's happiest country – UN report'

    http://tinyurl.com/mhdyr9m

    What joy and happiness Nicola is missing out on by failing to honour her promise to personally house refugees.
    We do things as a country.

    'Scotland has taken in more than a third of all UK's Syrian refugees '

    http://tinyurl.com/zeyrtll
    You talk about it as though it's a sacrifice whereas I look at it as a blessing.
  • NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,517
    Macron has caught up with Le Pen on round 1 in the latest poll:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opinion_polling_for_the_French_presidential_election,_2017

    Interestingly, Google offered me a Zerohedge piece entitled "Le Pen takes huge lead" as its first choice for "French presidential election polls". Turned out to quoting be a piece from November, and IMO misleading even then (focused on round 1). Beware of search engine optimisation...
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216
    malcolmg said:

    Patrick said:

    Am I right inunderstanding that wee Jimmie Krankie has decided to go for another referendum on the grounds that Scotland might be leaving the EU - but simultaneously has abandoned plans for an independent Scotland to rejoin the EU because, err, most Scots aren't very big on the idea of it?
    Maybe that nice Mrs May should insist that the referendum question references the EU.

    when you are down to personal insults it shows you have nothing to say and are scared
    On that basis you've been scared for years....
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,380
    FF43 said:

    FF43 said:

    To be somewhat fair to politicians, they have lots of different interests to balance and to resolve. In this case, doing something about climate change and boosting their own car industries. So if diesel engines emit less CO2 than gasoline ones and they can support a European industry strength with lots of lovely R&D, it's a win/win. Diesel engines can be made as clean as petrol ones, but it comes with cost and performance penalties, so both car manufacturers and governments were happy to take the shortcut. It's more a lack of coherent thinking than governments ignoring scientists. Scientists wouldn't make those trade-offs and can't be expected to do so.

    I went to an interesting talk about the science policy behind neonicotinoids, insecticides that turned out to have a devastating effect on pollinating bee populations. Although the compounds were tested on large insects, it was a straightforward do they die or don't they test. Neonicotindoids don't actually kill bees but they have behavioural effects that mean bees become confused and lose their instinct for self-preservation, with devastating consequences for populations.

    Governments are faced with special interest groups from industrialists who want to keep selling their products, environmentalists who are concerned about diversity with much lower pollination rates and farmers who are simultaneously for and against as they want the insecticides but are worried about their crops being pollinated.

    Governments have dealt with this by selectively banning particular neonicotinoid compounds. They can then be seen to be dealing with the problem, while industrialists can easily switch to other not yet banned compounds that have the same effect.

    The fundamental problem was with the original test, which doesn't measure what actually needs to be tested. As the target insects are killed deleteriously rather than instantly, you might expect scientists to realise a similar effect could happen on larger insects. Governments once informed that a mistake was made in the testing could now enforce a ban. Neither is happening.
    Fascinating. Akin to medicine use where once upon a time we just treated side-effects, but now we try to take other actions to reduce them, or create medicines without.
  • MonikerDiCanioMonikerDiCanio Posts: 5,792

    malcolmg said:

    Patrick said:

    Am I right inunderstanding that wee Jimmie Krankie has decided to go for another referendum on the grounds that Scotland might be leaving the EU - but simultaneously has abandoned plans for an independent Scotland to rejoin the EU because, err, most Scots aren't very big on the idea of it?
    Maybe that nice Mrs May should insist that the referendum question references the EU.

    when you are down to personal insults it shows you have nothing to say and are scared
    On that basis you've been scared for years....
    Extreme nationalists like Malcolm are usually motivated by fear and paranoia about " the other ". He's a frightened man clinging to his turnips.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,735
    Mr. Palmer, I wonder if it'd be a shade Pyrrhic for Macron to beat Le Pen in round 1. Could reduce the urgency of tactical voting against her.
  • CyanCyan Posts: 1,262

    Macron has caught up with Le Pen on round 1 in the latest poll:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opinion_polling_for_the_French_presidential_election,_2017

    Tonight's debate among the best-polling five candidates can be watched online at 8pm GMT, 9pm French time, here:

    http://www.streaming-hub.com/tf1-direct/

  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 56,999
    Cyan said:

    Macron has caught up with Le Pen on round 1 in the latest poll:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opinion_polling_for_the_French_presidential_election,_2017

    Tonight's debate among the best-polling five candidates can be watched online at 8pm GMT, 9pm French time, here:

    http://www.streaming-hub.com/tf1-direct/

    I was going to ask, but you've anticipated my every need.

    I'm wondering if my French is up to it.
  • malcolmg said:

    Patrick said:

    Am I right inunderstanding that wee Jimmie Krankie has decided to go for another referendum on the grounds that Scotland might be leaving the EU - but simultaneously has abandoned plans for an independent Scotland to rejoin the EU because, err, most Scots aren't very big on the idea of it?
    Maybe that nice Mrs May should insist that the referendum question references the EU.

    when you are down to personal insults it shows you have nothing to say and are scared Patrick. Desperate stuff on here, misogyny ever to the fore.
    Erm. I think of Sturgeon as wee Jimmie Krankie though. She looks the same and makes as much sense. So I'll stick with that one. Also she has no lips. Never trust a woman with no lips. Even Maggie had 'the lips of Marilyn Monroe'.
    On fear - to be honest I'm OK with Scotland leaving. If you've gone emotionally the mechanics will probably follow at some point. I wish Scotland well.
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,280
    Ishmael_Z said:

    Ishmael_Z said:

    At the invitation of the PM of Hungary, to be fair. "Hungarian prime minister Viktor Orban says his country will open its arms to west Europeans fleeing mass immigration and “the lords of globalist politics”. http://www.breitbart.com/london/2017/02/11/hungary-will-welcome-true-refugees-germans-french-others-seeking-europe-lost-homelands/

    Just imagine if a bienpensant UK Remainer had a second home in Hungary, and Griffin moved in next door. What a sitcom that would make.
    I wonder if Nick will be taking his pigs (if they haven't been finally solved) Anne and Frank with him? Which would be worse for the bien pensant, Nick gurning over the garden fence or the smell of pig shit?

    Edit: I see the piggies are long ago consumed. Still, Nick has hilariously transferred the names to his two rotweillers.
    Golly. I knew he was horrible, but not that horrible.
    Apparently, he went to Cambridge University. No reason why an academically bright person can't also be a totally horrible person of course. It's just that sometimes the very bright are inclined to think that their intelligence is also a sign of their moral worth.

  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,735
    Mr. 1000, do you ever play videogames in French? I sometimes have a crack at them auf Deutsch, just to stop it going 100% rusty.
  • Ishmael_ZIshmael_Z Posts: 8,981
    It is interesting that neither side has said anything about hypothetical changes to the form of the referendum, in light of EURef: should it require a minimum turnout, more than a simple majority, be advisory vs binding, preclude a third referendum for x years, etc. The obvious reason for this is that neither side can tactically raise any of those points at this stage - Sturgeon wants none of those qualifications, May would like all of them but can't stipulate any of them because it would look as if she was conceding the principle that a ref of one kind or another would happen. Either we are going to have might battles on all those points before the referendum itself, or we are in danger of getting 51/49 one way or the other on a low turnout, and have battles about that after the event for ever after.
  • BudGBudG Posts: 711
    edited March 2017

    Mr. Palmer, I wonder if it'd be a shade Pyrrhic for Macron to beat Le Pen in round 1. Could reduce the urgency of tactical voting against her.

    It will be interesting to see what changes that the first TV debate tonight, have upon the polling.

    For Macron, it is a big risk. He is the front-runner and is up there to be shot at. Also he has not had the experience of TV debate in primaries as Fillon and Hamon have.

    Fillon is going to find this TV debate a lot tougher than his primary TV debates. Back then his message was that he was whiter than white and that played out well against his challengers, Juppe and Sarkozy, both of whom had been embroiled in finAncial scandals of their own. Also, he goes into it with 75% of the viewers thinking he should not even be still standing in the race. It is going to be hard for him to change those opinions.

    Le Pen I think will do quite well, she is a passionate debator and is politically smart, even if her message and what she stands for is rejected by the majority of voters.

    Hamon is also likely to do quite well in the debate. He shone in the primary that he won and as he is not see as a real threat to the other candidates, he is unlikely to be the focus of their attacks.
  • FF43FF43 Posts: 17,208
    edited March 2017
    Pulpstar said:

    @FF43 @CD13

    There is no tax differential between petrol and diesel cars in the new VED rules though..
    So other than personal conscience, why would I be incentivised to (eventually) replace my diesel with a petrol ?
    I do drive a diesel, but I think the decision to maintain the same VED between otherwise identical NEW petrol and diesel cars is odd - given the evidence now available. People are choosing to buy new diesels, it isn't a past decision that people will be punished for (Always an important distinction when deciding how 'fair' this sort of tax/charge is)

    What is happening is a shift in public opinion against diesel engines that the government is reacting to. Diesel engines can be made as clean as we want them to be if we are happy to pay the costs of filtration in terms of money and performance. Volkswagen didn't fake their emissions tests because they were unable to meet them. They did so because they were unable to meet them and their own cost and performance targets.

    The other big change is turbo-charged small capacity petrol engines that deliver an acceptable performance versus fuel economy and CO2 emissions balance. New cleaner diesel engines come with a £1000+ surcharge over petrol engines. On cheaper cars that's a big enough difference to see people switch to petrol. If you are paying, say, £30 000 for a car the surcharge becomes less significant and you are happy to pay the extra to get the greater mid-cycle torque of the diesel car. Over time I suspect the higher cost cars will switch to electric propulsion and diesel will be squeezed.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,735
    Mr. G, cheers for that outline. I probably won't pay attention as it happens, but I will be interested to see the aftermath.
  • Ishmael_ZIshmael_Z Posts: 8,981
    Cyclefree said:

    Ishmael_Z said:

    Ishmael_Z said:

    At the invitation of the PM of Hungary, to be fair. "Hungarian prime minister Viktor Orban says his country will open its arms to west Europeans fleeing mass immigration and “the lords of globalist politics”. http://www.breitbart.com/london/2017/02/11/hungary-will-welcome-true-refugees-germans-french-others-seeking-europe-lost-homelands/

    Just imagine if a bienpensant UK Remainer had a second home in Hungary, and Griffin moved in next door. What a sitcom that would make.
    I wonder if Nick will be taking his pigs (if they haven't been finally solved) Anne and Frank with him? Which would be worse for the bien pensant, Nick gurning over the garden fence or the smell of pig shit?

    Edit: I see the piggies are long ago consumed. Still, Nick has hilariously transferred the names to his two rotweillers.
    Golly. I knew he was horrible, but not that horrible.
    Apparently, he went to Cambridge University. No reason why an academically bright person can't also be a totally horrible person of course. It's just that sometimes the very bright are inclined to think that their intelligence is also a sign of their moral worth.

    Not me, I echo Max Beerbohm: "I was a modest, good-humoured boy. It is Oxford that has made me insufferable."
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216
    Cyclefree said:

    Ishmael_Z said:

    Ishmael_Z said:

    At the invitation of the PM of Hungary, to be fair. "Hungarian prime minister Viktor Orban says his country will open its arms to west Europeans fleeing mass immigration and “the lords of globalist politics”. http://www.breitbart.com/london/2017/02/11/hungary-will-welcome-true-refugees-germans-french-others-seeking-europe-lost-homelands/

    Just imagine if a bienpensant UK Remainer had a second home in Hungary, and Griffin moved in next door. What a sitcom that would make.
    I wonder if Nick will be taking his pigs (if they haven't been finally solved) Anne and Frank with him? Which would be worse for the bien pensant, Nick gurning over the garden fence or the smell of pig shit?

    Edit: I see the piggies are long ago consumed. Still, Nick has hilariously transferred the names to his two rotweillers.
    Golly. I knew he was horrible, but not that horrible.
    Apparently, he went to Cambridge University.
    Can't produce Prime Ministers but can produce traitors & Nick Griffin......
  • ChaosOdinChaosOdin Posts: 67
    edited March 2017
    The SNP always used to annoy me, Sturgeon and Salmond in particular. I hate the way they smirk and moralise while openly lying to their own supporters. In my view they were the worst politicians in the UK for that and it drove me mad.

    But recently it has struck me that Sturgeon is just a bit of a comic figure really. "Scotland, Scotland, Scotland, Scotland, Scotland, Tory, Tory, Tory, Tory, Scotland, Tory".
  • JonathanDJonathanD Posts: 2,400

    The Norwegians must be amazing people to remain so happy under the burdens of oil and their high rate of acceptance of refugees.

    'Norway ousts Denmark as world's happiest country – UN report'

    http://tinyurl.com/mhdyr9m

    What joy and happiness Nicola is missing out on by failing to honour her promise to personally house refugees.
    We do things as a country.

    'Scotland has taken in more than a third of all UK's Syrian refugees '

    http://tinyurl.com/zeyrtll
    A year out of date and ignores refugees from elsewhere. If you take into account all refugees, the area of the UK that supports the most is the North-West of England.

    https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/immigration-statistics-october-to-december-2016/asylum
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 37,240

    Mr. F, aye, but the political class treat them as science. It's utterly indefensible. There are at least half a dozen ways to fool one (my personal favourite is slipping into a trance), the worst of which is simply being good at lying.

    In the same way that the political class (tying in with the discussion about cross-examination in rape cases) take the view that if someone is tried and acquitted they have "got away with it."
This discussion has been closed.