If you don't agree with that, you're bloody uncivilised savages
I thought you were a northerner, Eagles?
Foe me, lunch is unequivocally midday and tea 4pm onwards. Dinner describes the size of a meal (large),and is not fixed to any time of the day. E.g. what do you call the big midday meal at Christmas?
And snap is food eaten whatever time of day by workmen.
If you don't agree with that, you're bloody uncivilised savages
I thought you were a northerner, Eagles?
Foe me, lunch is unequivocally midday and tea 4pm onwards. Dinner describes the size of a meal (large),and is not fixed to any time of the day. E.g. what do you call the big midday meal at Christmas?
I am indeed the most Northener and English PBer, but Christmas Day is a rare day and in our household we generally have our main Christmas dinner around 4pm, which is closer to dinner than lunch
Mr. Nunu, it's not dinner. Dinner is the meal around midday. It's tea.
Correct.
I switched what I call it when I moved south.
Still, after realising that Sean T is no better off than me financially but somehow manages to have a much more globetrotting and adventurous lifestyle, I am feeling more and more that despite my income I will never quite escape my roots.
still you will die rich and someone else will spend it like Sean does.
Mr. Nunu, it's not dinner. Dinner is the meal around midday. It's tea.
Correct.
I switched what I call it when I moved south.
Still, after realising that Sean T is no better off than me financially but somehow manages to have a much more globetrotting and adventurous lifestyle, I am feeling more and more that despite my income I will never quite escape my roots.
still you will die rich and someone else will spend it like Sean does.
Just to return to books for a moment - there is a major problem (my vested interest aside) in how things stand. If earnings continue to decline then we'll end up with only the very successful able to write for a living, and everyone else writing having to be independently wealthy (ie be able to afford to write effectively as a hobby). That's not a good situation for us to be in.
Mr. Nunu, it's not dinner. Dinner is the meal around midday. It's tea.
Correct.
I switched what I call it when I moved south.
Still, after realising that Sean T is no better off than me financially but somehow manages to have a much more globetrotting and adventurous lifestyle, I am feeling more and more that despite my income I will never quite escape my roots.
still you will die rich and someone else will spend it like Sean does.
You don't get rich spending money.
Eating fishfinger sandwiches for sunday dinner and camping are not signs that he is spending much. He will leave it to someone who will spend it for him.
If you don't agree with that, you're bloody uncivilised savages
I thought you were a northerner, Eagles?
Foe me, lunch is unequivocally midday and tea 4pm onwards. Dinner describes the size of a meal (large),and is not fixed to any time of the day. E.g. what do you call the big midday meal at Christmas?
I am indeed the most Northener and English PBer, but Christmas Day is a rare day and in our household we generally have our main Christmas dinner around 4pm, which is closer to dinner than lunch
A fairly devout Muslim friend of mine said his daughter had given up chocolate for Lent. Lots of blurred edges in the modern world.
It doesn't matter what you call it, the modern determinant is whether you eat at a table, or on a sofa.
Mr. Nunu, it's not dinner. Dinner is the meal around midday. It's tea.
Correct.
I switched what I call it when I moved south.
Still, after realising that Sean T is no better off than me financially but somehow manages to have a much more globetrotting and adventurous lifestyle, I am feeling more and more that despite my income I will never quite escape my roots.
still you will die rich and someone else will spend it like Sean does.
You don't get rich spending money.
Eating fishfinger sandwiches for sunday dinner and camping are not signs that he is spending much. He will leave it to someone who will spend it for him.
I detected ominous signs of spousal discontent. An ex-wife might spend it for him.
Mr. Nunu, it's not dinner. Dinner is the meal around midday. It's tea.
Correct.
I switched what I call it when I moved south.
Still, after realising that Sean T is no better off than me financially but somehow manages to have a much more globetrotting and adventurous lifestyle, I am feeling more and more that despite my income I will never quite escape my roots.
still you will die rich and someone else will spend it like Sean does.
You don't get rich spending money.
Eating fishfinger sandwiches for sunday dinner and camping are not signs that he is spending much. He will leave it to someone who will spend it for him.
I detected ominous signs of spousal discontent. An ex-wife might spend it for him.
Either that or her next husband or even his own offspring if the wife does not manage the lot , they will toast him with champagne by the sound of it.
Just to return to books for a moment - there is a major problem (my vested interest aside) in how things stand. If earnings continue to decline then we'll end up with only the very successful able to write for a living, and everyone else writing having to be independently wealthy (ie be able to afford to write effectively as a hobby). That's not a good situation for us to be in.
MD the solution really is to just write better books. I don't mean you in particular, I mean generally. If we took 100 MDs fifty years ago then only perhaps one of those would have got a look-in. Now all hundred do and we have to make horrible compromises with poor editing etc. We do get more stories, and probably that's good. Great works of literature though might not emerge.
Mr. G, true, but if you can make life more comfortable for your family and protect yourself about the potentially ruinous costs of care in old age, then it makes sense.
Mind you, I'm naturally frugal. I dislike spending money, whether it's mine or somebody else's.
Mr. Quidder, JK Rowling got repeatedly turned down too.
Publishers, especially large ones, are very conservative and risk averse. Self-publishing does remove them as strict gatekeepers, but it's very hard to make any money writing (don't let Mr. T fool you, there are thousands of struggling writers for every mid-list author, and hundreds of them for every A-list author).
There are probably 100,000 pro or semi-pro writers in the UK. Probably 1000 of them make a good living, i.e. over £50,000 a year?
Probably 100, at most, make £250,000 a year or more: so just 1 in 1000 writers makes very serious dosh.
Probably 10 make a million a year, or more. And are just stupidly rich.
So other than JK and yourself, who are the other 8 ;-)
I wish. In a good year I'm in that top 100, just about. Certainly not in that top 10.
Rowling is one. I suspect JoJo Moyes is another. Paula Hawkins these last two years. E L James, still.
Mostly women.
Julia Donaldson is the winner, at least in early 2016 -
If you don't agree with that, you're bloody uncivilised savages
I thought you were a northerner, Eagles?
Foe me, lunch is unequivocally midday and tea 4pm onwards. Dinner describes the size of a meal (large),and is not fixed to any time of the day. E.g. what do you call the big midday meal at Christmas?
I am indeed the most Northener and English PBer, but Christmas Day is a rare day and in our household we generally have our main Christmas dinner around 4pm, which is closer to dinner than lunch
Meal time descriptions develop over time. The wedding breakfast is still with us almost regardless of time of day and stems from when weddings invariably took place immediately after morning mass.
Tea as a meal developed in the 18th century when tea was expensive. The Duchess of Bedford would invite friends to drink tea with boudoir sandwiches and cake. This developed in the upper classes as low tea in mid afternoon and the middle classes developed a high tea later in the afternoon.
If you don't agree with that, you're bloody uncivilised savages
For once I have to agree 100% with you.
My wife's (& my) Christmas present from our son and his family is a Champagne tea at Claridges. That's scheduled for mid-afternoon.
Incidentally, do I have wear a tie?
No, afternoon tea is elegant smart casual; no shorts, vests, sportswear, flip flops, ripped jeans or baseball caps. Personally I'd wear collar and tie.
Mr. G, true, but if you can make life more comfortable for your family and protect yourself about the potentially ruinous costs of care in old age, then it makes sense.
Mind you, I'm naturally frugal. I dislike spending money, whether it's mine or somebody else's.
MD just make sure you do not go into care , I have always preferred to spend mine personally.
Mr. Quidder, JK Rowling got repeatedly turned down too.
Publishers, especially large ones, are very conservative and risk averse. Self-publishing does remove them as strict gatekeepers, but it's very hard to make any money writing (don't let Mr. T fool you, there are thousands of struggling writers for every mid-list author, and hundreds of them for every A-list author).
There are probably 100,000 pro or semi-pro writers in the UK. Probably 1000 of them make a good living, i.e. over £50,000 a year?
Probably 100, at most, make £250,000 a year or more: so just 1 in 1000 writers makes very serious dosh.
Probably 10 make a million a year, or more. And are just stupidly rich.
So other than JK and yourself, who are the other 8 ;-)
Mr. Quidder, JK Rowling got repeatedly turned down too.
Publishers, especially large ones, are very conservative and risk averse. Self-publishing does remove them as strict gatekeepers, but it's very hard to make any money writing (don't let Mr. T fool you, there are thousands of struggling writers for every mid-list author, and hundreds of them for every A-list author).
There are probably 100,000 pro or semi-pro writers in the UK. Probably 1000 of them make a good living, i.e. over £50,000 a year?
Probably 100, at most, make £250,000 a year or more: so just 1 in 1000 writers makes very serious dosh.
Probably 10 make a million a year, or more. And are just stupidly rich.
So other than JK and yourself, who are the other 8 ;-)
Mr. Quidder, JK Rowling got repeatedly turned down too.
Publishers, especially large ones, are very conservative and risk averse. Self-publishing does remove them as strict gatekeepers, but it's very hard to make any money writing (don't let Mr. T fool you, there are thousands of struggling writers for every mid-list author, and hundreds of them for every A-list author).
There are probably 100,000 pro or semi-pro writers in the UK. Probably 1000 of them make a good living, i.e. over £50,000 a year?
Probably 100, at most, make £250,000 a year or more: so just 1 in 1000 writers makes very serious dosh.
Probably 10 make a million a year, or more. And are just stupidly rich.
So other than JK and yourself, who are the other 8 ;-)
Probably Robert Harris, Neil Gaiman, the Tolkien Estate, among others mentioned.
Mr. Omnium, obviously, quality always helps, but I think you're underestimating how much marketing, word-of-mouth and plain luck play a role. Take The Master of Izindi. I'd guess nobody here except me has ever heard of it, but it's an enjoyable story with an Arabian Nights feel. Almost certainly better than Fifty Shades, yet almost infinitely less known.
If you don't agree with that, you're bloody uncivilised savages
I read an interesting book about life during the Regency, which stated how these meanings changed over time, and where the confusions began. Meals in upper-class households were often based around visitors and visiting, and they became increasingly later. The same was not true for working-class households, which were based more on daylight hours.
From memory, at least ...
Edit: In the beginning of the sixteenth century in England, dinner, the main meal of the day, used to begin at 11:00AM. Meals tended over time to be eaten later and later in the day: by the eighteenth century, dinner was eaten at about 3:00PM…By the early nineteenth century, lunch, what Palmer in Moveable Feasts calls “the furtive snack,” had become a sit-down meal at the dning table in the middle of the day. Upper-class people were eating breakfast earlier, and dinner later, than they had formerly done…in 1808…dinner was now a late meal and supper a snack taken at the very end of the day before people retired to bed. For a long time luncheon was a very upper-class habit; ordinarily working people dined in the early evening, and contented themselves as they had done for centuries with a mid-day snack…Supper now means a light evening meal that replaces dinner; such a meal is especially popular if people have eaten a heavy lunch – The Rituals of Dinner, Margaret Visser [Penguid:New York] 1991 (p. 159-160) – Food Timeline
If you don't agree with that, you're bloody uncivilised savages
I thought you were a northerner, Eagles?
Foe me, lunch is unequivocally midday and tea 4pm onwards. Dinner describes the size of a meal (large),and is not fixed to any time of the day. E.g. what do you call the big midday meal at Christmas?
I am indeed the most Northener and English PBer, but Christmas Day is a rare day and in our household we generally have our main Christmas dinner around 4pm, which is closer to dinner than lunch
Meal time descriptions develop over time. The wedding breakfast is still with us almost regardless of time of day and stems from when weddings invariably took place immediately after morning mass.
Tea as a meal developed in the 18th century when tea was expensive. The Duchess of Bedford would invite friends to drink tea with boudoir sandwiches and cake. This developed in the upper classes as low tea in mid afternoon and the middle classes developed a high tea later in the afternoon.
LOL, I well remember talk of having a high tea in my youth and it was indeed late afternoon.
If you don't agree with that, you're bloody uncivilised savages
I thought you were a northerner, Eagles?
Foe me, lunch is unequivocally midday and tea 4pm onwards. Dinner describes the size of a meal (large),and is not fixed to any time of the day. E.g. what do you call the big midday meal at Christmas?
I am indeed the most Northener and English PBer, but Christmas Day is a rare day and in our household we generally have our main Christmas dinner around 4pm, which is closer to dinner than lunch
Claim for possibly even more northern, living about four miles from gretna... Dinner was always the 12 noon meal. School dinner at dinner time, supervised by dinner ladies... Evening meal definitely Tea.
Maybe I'm old fashioned, but is this the sort of thing he should be saying to the man in perso, not on Twitter? Well, maybe it is for the record I guess.
If you don't agree with that, you're bloody uncivilised savages
Nonsense.
Dinner is the principle meal of the day, whenever you happen to have it. Most people have it in the afternoon or evening, so they (incorrectly) assume that their 'dinnertime' is universal.
No no, you have Breakfast time (or at least the usual breakfast time) in the morning, lunchtime around midday (which may or may not be dinner if it is the biggest meal) and then tea time, at which most people have dinner.
I feel this is shaping up for another division along the lines of the pineapple pizza question.
You would think they would be on a salary + % deal, based on sales.
I always been amazed at those that ghost write autobiographies for a living.
Not only do you have to somehow flash up often boring tales of somebodies life (over and over and over again), but the publishers often expect those 100k words in very short periods of time, often 2-3 months.
I could write a biography. It's writing a good novel that takes real talent.
Exactly, banging out 100k words of non-fiction over 2-3 months is easy-peasy, been there done that, got the royalties. Having the imagination to come up with a plot and the talent to write it up in such a way that the reader wants to turn the page and is satisfied when he/she reaches the end of the story but is sad that they have done so, now that requires something special.
Mr. T has it as does Mr. Dancer. It would be an interesting exercise to try and work out why they sell such different amounts.
Mr. Quidder, JK Rowling got repeatedly turned down too.
Publishers, especially large ones, are very conservative and risk averse. Self-publishing does remove them as strict gatekeepers, but it's very hard to make any money writing (don't let Mr. T fool you, there are thousands of struggling writers for every mid-list author, and hundreds of them for every A-list author).
There are probably 100,000 pro or semi-pro writers in the UK. Probably 1000 of them make a good living, i.e. over £50,000 a year?
Probably 100, at most, make £250,000 a year or more: so just 1 in 1000 writers makes very serious dosh.
Probably 10 make a million a year, or more. And are just stupidly rich.
So other than JK and yourself, who are the other 8 ;-)
Probably Robert Harris, Neil Gaiman, the Tolkien Estate, among others mentioned.
If you don't agree with that, you're bloody uncivilised savages
I thought you were a northerner, Eagles?
Foe me, lunch is unequivocally midday and tea 4pm onwards. Dinner describes the size of a meal (large),and is not fixed to any time of the day. E.g. what do you call the big midday meal at Christmas?
I am indeed the most Northener and English PBer, but Christmas Day is a rare day and in our household we generally have our main Christmas dinner around 4pm, which is closer to dinner than lunch
Meal time descriptions develop over time. The wedding breakfast is still with us almost regardless of time of day and stems from when weddings invariably took place immediately after morning mass.
Tea as a meal developed in the 18th century when tea was expensive. The Duchess of Bedford would invite friends to drink tea with boudoir sandwiches and cake. This developed in the upper classes as low tea in mid afternoon and the middle classes developed a high tea later in the afternoon.
LOL, I well remember talk of having a high tea in my youth and it was indeed late afternoon.
When a boy I recall having high tea in the nursery with nanny. The smell of biscuits and cakes cooking used to waft through the back staircase from the kitchen on baking days. Happy days of childhood long ago.
Mr. Quidder, JK Rowling got repeatedly turned down too.
Publishers, especially large ones, are very conservative and risk averse. Self-publishing does remove them as strict gatekeepers, but it's very hard to make any money writing (don't let Mr. T fool you, there are thousands of struggling writers for every mid-list author, and hundreds of them for every A-list author).
There are probably 100,000 pro or semi-pro writers in the UK. Probably 1000 of them make a good living, i.e. over £50,000 a year?
Probably 100, at most, make £250,000 a year or more: so just 1 in 1000 writers makes very serious dosh.
Probably 10 make a million a year, or more. And are just stupidly rich.
So other than JK and yourself, who are the other 8 ;-)
Probably Robert Harris, Neil Gaiman, the Tolkien Estate, among others mentioned.
If you don't agree with that, you're bloody uncivilised savages
For once I have to agree 100% with you.
My wife's (& my) Christmas present from our son and his family is a Champagne tea at Claridges. That's scheduled for mid-afternoon.
Incidentally, do I have wear a tie?
Sadly not.
The distressing term "smart casual" is the norm.
I was actually planning to do so. I have a large selection from the days when I had to wear one. However, I'm obliged for the opinions. Does anyone know if there's a bus-stop nearby?
Fantasy is a little saturated but doesn't sell as well as many other genres.
Also, once you break through the author name on the cover is a great advantage.
Best example I saw of that recently was an official follow up to one of Tom Clancy's series, Jack Ryan maybe, where it was something like 'TOM CLANCY'S XXXXXXX BY joe nobody'
If you don't agree with that, you're bloody uncivilised savages
I thought you were a northerner, Eagles?
Foe me, lunch is unequivocally midday and tea 4pm onwards. Dinner describes the size of a meal (large),and is not fixed to any time of the day. E.g. what do you call the big midday meal at Christmas?
I am indeed the most Northener and English PBer, but Christmas Day is a rare day and in our household we generally have our main Christmas dinner around 4pm, which is closer to dinner than lunch
Meal time descriptions develop over time. The wedding breakfast is still with us almost regardless of time of day and stems from when weddings invariably took place immediately after morning mass.
Tea as a meal developed in the 18th century when tea was expensive. The Duchess of Bedford would invite friends to drink tea with boudoir sandwiches and cake. This developed in the upper classes as low tea in mid afternoon and the middle classes developed a high tea later in the afternoon.
LOL, I well remember talk of having a high tea in my youth and it was indeed late afternoon.
When a boy I recall having high tea in the nursery with nanny. The smell of biscuits and cakes cooking used to waft through the back staircase from the kitchen on baking days. Happy days of childhood long ago.
You would think they would be on a salary + % deal, based on sales.
I always been amazed at those that ghost write autobiographies for a living.
Not only do you have to somehow flash up often boring tales of somebodies life (over and over and over again), but the publishers often expect those 100k words in very short periods of time, often 2-3 months.
I could write a biography. It's writing a good novel that takes real talent.
Exactly, banging out 100k words of non-fiction over 2-3 months is easy-peasy, been there done that, got the royalties. Having the imagination to come up with a plot and the talent to write it up in such a way that the reader wants to turn the page and is satisfied when he/she reaches the end of the story but is sad that they have done so, now that requires something special.
Mr. T has it as does Mr. Dancer. It would be an interesting exercise to try and work out why they sell such different amounts.
I think Sean T has said his first novels sold dreadfully. Perseverance counts for a lot.
If you don't agree with that, you're bloody uncivilised savages
I thought you were a northerner, Eagles?
Foe me, lunch is unequivocally midday and tea 4pm onwards. Dinner describes the size of a meal (large),and is not fixed to any time of the day. E.g. what do you call the big midday meal at Christmas?
I am indeed the most Northener and English PBer, but Christmas Day is a rare day and in our household we generally have our main Christmas dinner around 4pm, which is closer to dinner than lunch
Meal time descriptions develop over time. The wedding breakfast is still with us almost regardless of time of day and stems from when weddings invariably took place immediately after morning mass.
Tea as a meal developed in the 18th century when tea was expensive. The Duchess of Bedford would invite friends to drink tea with boudoir sandwiches and cake. This developed in the upper classes as low tea in mid afternoon and the middle classes developed a high tea later in the afternoon.
LOL, I well remember talk of having a high tea in my youth and it was indeed late afternoon.
When a boy I recall having high tea in the nursery with nanny. The smell of biscuits and cakes cooking used to waft through the back staircase from the kitchen on baking days. Happy days of childhood long ago.
Mr. Nunu, it's not dinner. Dinner is the meal around midday. It's tea.
Correct.
I switched what I call it when I moved south.
Still, after realising that Sean T is no better off than me financially but somehow manages to have a much more globetrotting and adventurous lifestyle, I am feeling more and more that despite my income I will never quite escape my roots.
still you will die rich and someone else will spend it like Sean does.
You don't get rich spending money.
Eating fishfinger sandwiches for sunday dinner and camping are not signs that he is spending much. He will leave it to someone who will spend it for him.
I detected ominous signs of spousal discontent. An ex-wife might spend it for him.
It is a husband not a wife, I am a gay.
I just bought him a new BMW x5, so he has better not be unhappy. It also goes to show I am not always entirely careful with my money.
If you don't agree with that, you're bloody uncivilised savages
For once I have to agree 100% with you.
My wife's (& my) Christmas present from our son and his family is a Champagne tea at Claridges. That's scheduled for mid-afternoon.
Incidentally, do I have wear a tie?
No tie needed. I think Claridges have no explicit dress code at all, but you'll feel out of place without a collared shirt and a jacket I'd suggest.
Last time I was at Claridges being dressed reasonably was more likely to make one feel out of place. The place had gone to the dogs, ditto the Ritz and Fortnums at least as far as afternoon tea is concerned.
Last year I had tea with Herself at the V&A, not in the same league, I know, but it was jolly nice and full of nice people (staff and punters). I think I'd sooner take my wife there rather than the usual haunts.
Mr. Omnium, obviously, quality always helps, but I think you're underestimating how much marketing, word-of-mouth and plain luck play a role. Take The Master of Izindi. I'd guess nobody here except me has ever heard of it, but it's an enjoyable story with an Arabian Nights feel. Almost certainly better than Fifty Shades, yet almost infinitely less known.
You're quite right about the big factors - luck is probably the biggest too.
I haven't heard of 'The Master of Izindi', but you set a low bar if it only needs to beat a novel that, although I've not read it, I sort of know will be poor. Tell me of a book is better than Bleak House and I'll get it delivered to me by express.
If you don't agree with that, you're bloody uncivilised savages
I thought you were a northerner, Eagles?
Foe me, lunch is unequivocally midday and tea 4pm onwards. Dinner describes the size of a meal (large),and is not fixed to any time of the day. E.g. what do you call the big midday meal at Christmas?
I am indeed the most Northener and English PBer, but Christmas Day is a rare day and in our household we generally have our main Christmas dinner around 4pm, which is closer to dinner than lunch
A fairly devout Muslim friend of mine said his daughter had given up chocolate for Lent. Lots of blurred edges in the modern world.
It doesn't matter what you call it, the modern determinant is whether you eat at a table, or on a sofa.
Because of my diabetes and other ailments, all my life I've had fairly set meal times, so perhaps I'm set in my ways.
My mother insists I always all food is consumed either int the dining room or in the big kitchen.
That said, I've spent most of Friday night and Saturday morning talking to God on the great white telephone following a nasty bug/virus.
If you don't agree with that, you're bloody uncivilised savages
For once I have to agree 100% with you.
My wife's (& my) Christmas present from our son and his family is a Champagne tea at Claridges. That's scheduled for mid-afternoon.
Incidentally, do I have wear a tie?
No tie needed. I think Claridges have no explicit dress code at all, but you'll feel out of place without a collared shirt and a jacket I'd suggest.
Last time I was at Claridges being dressed reasonably was more likely to make one feel out of place. The place had gone to the dogs, ditto the Ritz and Fortnums at least as far as afternoon tea is concerned.
Last year I had tea with Herself at the V&A, not in the same league, I know, but it was jolly nice and full of nice people (staff and punters). I think I'd sooner take my wife there rather than the usual haunts.
You would think they would be on a salary + % deal, based on sales.
I always been amazed at those that ghost write autobiographies for a living.
Not only do you have to somehow flash up often boring tales of somebodies life (over and over and over again), but the publishers often expect those 100k words in very short periods of time, often 2-3 months.
I could write a biography. It's writing a good novel that takes real talent.
Exactly, banging out 100k words of non-fiction over 2-3 months is easy-peasy, been there done that, got the royalties. Having the imagination to come up with a plot and the talent to write it up in such a way that the reader wants to turn the page and is satisfied when he/she reaches the end of the story but is sad that they have done so, now that requires something special.
Mr. T has it as does Mr. Dancer. It would be an interesting exercise to try and work out why they sell such different amounts.
I think Sean T has said his first novels sold dreadfully. Perseverance counts for a lot.
Like musicians, it can often be total and utterly down to pure luck.
Over the years I have seen lots of great bands, with a catalogue of good tracks, very accomplished live but slog it out with 150 shows a year to make a living...then you see a big name of a similar genre and they are vastly inferior live show, but have sold millions.
Mostly fantasy with a side-helping of sci-fi. I can especially recommend Kingdom Asunder. Sir Edric, unlike the rest, is a comedy, a sort of Blackadder meets Flashman (an antidote to political correctness).
Edited extra bit: is it irksome when I occasionally put this up? I have no idea, but it seems almost remiss not to given the conversation.
If you don't agree with that, you're bloody uncivilised savages
For once I have to agree 100% with you.
My wife's (& my) Christmas present from our son and his family is a Champagne tea at Claridges. That's scheduled for mid-afternoon.
Incidentally, do I have wear a tie?
Sadly not.
The distressing term "smart casual" is the norm.
I was actually planning to do so. I have a large selection from the days when I had to wear one. However, I'm obliged for the opinions. Does anyone know if there's a bus-stop nearby?
A bus to Claridges? Good grief! If you really don't want to get a taxi there it is only a few minutes walk from Regent Street.
@SeanT saw one of your books in a bookshop in Kendal this weekend. Took great pleasure telling my girlfriend that 'the author posts on that politics website I go on'. I'm pretty sure she was impressed.
@SeanT saw one of your books in a bookshop in Kendal this weekend. Took great pleasure telling my girlfriend that 'the author posts on that politics website I go on'. I'm pretty sure she was impressed.
Mostly fantasy with a side-helping of sci-fi. I can especially recommend Kingdom Asunder. Sir Edric, unlike the rest, is a comedy, a sort of Blackadder meets Flashman (an antidote to political correctness).
Edited extra bit: is it irksome when I occasionally put this up? I have no idea, but it seems almost remiss not to given the conversation.
I bought The Adventures of Sir Edric and enjoyed it enormously. It deserves more of a following than it gets.
@SeanT saw one of your books in a bookshop in Kendal this weekend. Took great pleasure telling my girlfriend that 'the author posts on that politics website I go on'. I'm pretty sure she was impressed.
"yes honey, I'm sure he does"
I think it would have been more impressed to tell that that bloke who used to be PM is a regular reader...
@SeanT saw one of your books in a bookshop in Kendal this weekend. Took great pleasure telling my girlfriend that 'the author posts on that politics website I go on'. I'm pretty sure she was impressed.
If you don't agree with that, you're bloody uncivilised savages
For once I have to agree 100% with you.
My wife's (& my) Christmas present from our son and his family is a Champagne tea at Claridges. That's scheduled for mid-afternoon.
Incidentally, do I have wear a tie?
No tie needed. I think Claridges have no explicit dress code at all, but you'll feel out of place without a collared shirt and a jacket I'd suggest.
Last time I was at Claridges being dressed reasonably was more likely to make one feel out of place. The place had gone to the dogs, ditto the Ritz and Fortnums at least as far as afternoon tea is concerned.
Last year I had tea with Herself at the V&A, not in the same league, I know, but it was jolly nice and full of nice people (staff and punters). I think I'd sooner take my wife there rather than the usual haunts.
iPads for the Ritz staff...totally not on.
The Ritz insists on ties I think. The Dorchester is fussy about shoes. It's just their quest for money these days. I can't think of a single establishment in London that would actually let me in, and keep a Russian gangster out.
If you don't agree with that, you're bloody uncivilised savages
I thought you were a northerner, Eagles?
Foe me, lunch is unequivocally midday and tea 4pm onwards. Dinner describes the size of a meal (large),and is not fixed to any time of the day. E.g. what do you call the big midday meal at Christmas?
I am indeed the most Northener and English PBer, but Christmas Day is a rare day and in our household we generally have our main Christmas dinner around 4pm, which is closer to dinner than lunch
Meal time descriptions develop over time. The wedding breakfast is still with us almost regardless of time of day and stems from when weddings invariably took place immediately after morning mass.
Tea as a meal developed in the 18th century when tea was expensive. The Duchess of Bedford would invite friends to drink tea with boudoir sandwiches and cake. This developed in the upper classes as low tea in mid afternoon and the middle classes developed a high tea later in the afternoon.
LOL, I well remember talk of having a high tea in my youth and it was indeed late afternoon.
When a boy I recall having high tea in the nursery with nanny. The smell of biscuits and cakes cooking used to waft through the back staircase from the kitchen on baking days. Happy days of childhood long ago.
I trust you still dress for dinner.
Over time less so. It's difficult to pinpoint why, save for social trends changing. We dine out far more than decades ago as the standard of British cuisine has improved markedly as has its availability, especially outside of London.
Dinner parties rather than formal dinners at home are also more the norm. I'd say we probably host only a few dozen formal events every year.
Mostly fantasy with a side-helping of sci-fi. I can especially recommend Kingdom Asunder. Sir Edric, unlike the rest, is a comedy, a sort of Blackadder meets Flashman (an antidote to political correctness).
Edited extra bit: is it irksome when I occasionally put this up? I have no idea, but it seems almost remiss not to given the conversation.
I think in a glutted market you should seize every opportunity to promote your works in whatever sphere you can find. It's led to at least a few sales!
If you don't agree with that, you're bloody uncivilised savages
For once I have to agree 100% with you.
My wife's (& my) Christmas present from our son and his family is a Champagne tea at Claridges. That's scheduled for mid-afternoon.
Incidentally, do I have wear a tie?
No tie needed. I think Claridges have no explicit dress code at all, but you'll feel out of place without a collared shirt and a jacket I'd suggest.
Last time I was at Claridges being dressed reasonably was more likely to make one feel out of place. The place had gone to the dogs, ditto the Ritz and Fortnums at least as far as afternoon tea is concerned.
Last year I had tea with Herself at the V&A, not in the same league, I know, but it was jolly nice and full of nice people (staff and punters). I think I'd sooner take my wife there rather than the usual haunts.
iPads for the Ritz staff...totally not on.
The Ritz insists on ties I think. The Dorchester is fussy about shoes. It's just their quest for money these days. I can't think of a single establishment in London that would actually let me in, and keep a Russian gangster out.
Or Russian Prozzies...Last time I was at the Ritz, there was one particularly annoying loud mouth with his hired lady making a scene.
@SeanT saw one of your books in a bookshop in Kendal this weekend. Took great pleasure telling my girlfriend that 'the author posts on that politics website I go on'. I'm pretty sure she was impressed.
"yes honey, I'm sure he does"
I think it would have been more impressed to tell that that bloke who used to be PM is a regular reader...
Mr. Omnium, obviously, quality always helps, but I think you're underestimating how much marketing, word-of-mouth and plain luck play a role. Take The Master of Izindi. I'd guess nobody here except me has ever heard of it, but it's an enjoyable story with an Arabian Nights feel. Almost certainly better than Fifty Shades, yet almost infinitely less known.
You're quite right about the big factors - luck is probably the biggest too.
I haven't heard of 'The Master of Izindi', but you set a low bar if it only needs to beat a novel that, although I've not read it, I sort of know will be poor. Tell me of a book is better than Bleak House and I'll get it delivered to me by express.
Mr. Ominum, Kingdom Asunder is better than Bleak House, though not as long. The Sir Edric Books are also better than Bleak House. Over to you to get those express deliveries working.
@SeanT saw one of your books in a bookshop in Kendal this weekend. Took great pleasure telling my girlfriend that 'the author posts on that politics website I go on'. I'm pretty sure she was impressed.
"yes honey, I'm sure he does"
I think it would have been more impressed to tell that that bloke who used to be PM is a regular reader...
If you don't agree with that, you're bloody uncivilised savages
I thought you were a northerner, Eagles?
Foe me, lunch is unequivocally midday and tea 4pm onwards. Dinner describes the size of a meal (large),and is not fixed to any time of the day. E.g. what do you call the big midday meal at Christmas?
I am indeed the most Northener and English PBer, but Christmas Day is a rare day and in our household we generally have our main Christmas dinner around 4pm, which is closer to dinner than lunch
A fairly devout Muslim friend of mine said his daughter had given up chocolate for Lent. Lots of blurred edges in the modern world.
It doesn't matter what you call it, the modern determinant is whether you eat at a table, or on a sofa.
Because of my diabetes and other ailments, all my life I've had fairly set meal times, so perhaps I'm set in my ways.
My mother insists I always all food is consumed either int the dining room or in the big kitchen.
That said, I've spent most of Friday night and Saturday morning talking to God on the great white telephone following a nasty bug/virus.
I was thinking more of the Muslim vs Christian dichotomy, though of course Issa is a prophet in Islam.
My Diabetic patients often go skewiff in Ramadan, no matter what the Imam says, they often still fast.
If you don't agree with that, you're bloody uncivilised savages
I thought you were a northerner, Eagles?
Foe me, lunch is unequivocally midday and tea 4pm onwards. Dinner describes the size of a meal (large),and is not fixed to any time of the day. E.g. what do you call the big midday meal at Christmas?
I am indeed the most Northener and English PBer, but Christmas Day is a rare day and in our household we generally have our main Christmas dinner around 4pm, which is closer to dinner than lunch
Meal time descriptions develop over time. The wedding breakfast is still with us almost regardless of time of day and stems from when weddings invariably took place immediately after morning mass.
Tea as a meal developed in the 18th century when tea was expensive. The Duchess of Bedford would invite friends to drink tea with boudoir sandwiches and cake. This developed in the upper classes as low tea in mid afternoon and the middle classes developed a high tea later in the afternoon.
LOL, I well remember talk of having a high tea in my youth and it was indeed late afternoon.
When a boy I recall having high tea in the nursery with nanny. The smell of biscuits and cakes cooking used to waft through the back staircase from the kitchen on baking days. Happy days of childhood long ago.
I trust you still dress for dinner.
Over time less so. It's difficult to pinpoint why, save for social trends changing. We dine out far more than decades ago as the standard of British cuisine has improved markedly as has its availability, especially outside of London.
Dinner parties rather than formal dinners at home are also more the norm. I'd say we probably host only a few dozen formal events every year.
I passed an elderly couple some years back and the wife asked her husband " Will it be tiaras tonight ? ". I felt Edwardian.
If you don't agree with that, you're bloody uncivilised savages
I thought you were a northerner, Eagles?
Foe me, lunch is unequivocally midday and tea 4pm onwards. Dinner describes the size of a meal (large),and is not fixed to any time of the day. E.g. what do you call the big midday meal at Christmas?
I am indeed the most Northener and English PBer, but Christmas Day is a rare day and in our household we generally have our main Christmas dinner around 4pm, which is closer to dinner than lunch
Meal time descriptions develop over time. The wedding breakfast is still with us almost regardless of time of day and stems from when weddings invariably took place immediately after morning mass.
Tea as a meal developed in the 18th century when tea was expensive. The Duchess of Bedford would invite friends to drink tea with boudoir sandwiches and cake. This developed in the upper classes as low tea in mid afternoon and the middle classes developed a high tea later in the afternoon.
LOL, I well remember talk of having a high tea in my youth and it was indeed late afternoon.
When a boy I recall having high tea in the nursery with nanny. The smell of biscuits and cakes cooking used to waft through the back staircase from the kitchen on baking days. Happy days of childhood long ago.
I trust you still dress for dinner.
Over time less so. It's difficult to pinpoint why, save for social trends changing. We dine out far more than decades ago as the standard of British cuisine has improved markedly as has its availability, especially outside of London.
Dinner parties rather than formal dinners at home are also more the norm. I'd say we probably host only a few dozen formal events every year.
Sometimes I feel that most PBers have a very different lifestyle from my own ...
@SeanT saw one of your books in a bookshop in Kendal this weekend. Took great pleasure telling my girlfriend that 'the author posts on that politics website I go on'. I'm pretty sure she was impressed.
"yes honey, I'm sure he does"
I think it would have been more impressed to tell that that bloke who used to be PM is a regular reader...
I think I asked on the other thread, but it got lost. Is anyone offering either (a) an over-under line, or (b) a spread on MLP's vote share?
There might be some very interesting betting strategies if those existed.
It would be nice to be able to buy or sell overall volatility, e.g. measured by the swing from the biggest loser to the biggest gainer in the polls. Monday's debate would be a buy at 2.5%.
If you don't agree with that, you're bloody uncivilised savages
I thought you were a northerner, Eagles?
Foe me, lunch is unequivocally midday and tea 4pm onwards. Dinner describes the size of a meal (large),and is not fixed to any time of the day. E.g. what do you call the big midday meal at Christmas?
I am indeed the most Northener and English PBer, but Christmas Day is a rare day and in our household we generally have our main Christmas dinner around 4pm, which is closer to dinner than lunch
Meal time descriptions develop over time. The wedding breakfast is still with us almost regardless of time of day and stems from when weddings invariably took place immediately after morning mass.
Tea as a meal developed in the 18th century when tea was expensive. The Duchess of Bedford would invite friends to drink tea with boudoir sandwiches and cake. This developed in the upper classes as low tea in mid afternoon and the middle classes developed a high tea later in the afternoon.
LOL, I well remember talk of having a high tea in my youth and it was indeed late afternoon.
When a boy I recall having high tea in the nursery with nanny. The smell of biscuits and cakes cooking used to waft through the back staircase from the kitchen on baking days. Happy days of childhood long ago.
I trust you still dress for dinner.
Over time less so. It's difficult to pinpoint why, save for social trends changing. We dine out far more than decades ago as the standard of British cuisine has improved markedly as has its availability, especially outside of London.
Dinner parties rather than formal dinners at home are also more the norm. I'd say we probably host only a few dozen formal events every year.
Sometimes I feel that most PBers have a very different lifestyle from my own ...
The correct time for a gentleman (or lady) to dine is.... exactly when they please.
If you don't agree with that, you're bloody uncivilised savages
For once I have to agree 100% with you.
My wife's (& my) Christmas present from our son and his family is a Champagne tea at Claridges. That's scheduled for mid-afternoon.
Incidentally, do I have wear a tie?
No tie needed. I think Claridges have no explicit dress code at all, but you'll feel out of place without a collared shirt and a jacket I'd suggest.
Last time I was at Claridges being dressed reasonably was more likely to make one feel out of place. The place had gone to the dogs, ditto the Ritz and Fortnums at least as far as afternoon tea is concerned.
Last year I had tea with Herself at the V&A, not in the same league, I know, but it was jolly nice and full of nice people (staff and punters). I think I'd sooner take my wife there rather than the usual haunts.
iPads for the Ritz staff...totally not on.
The Ritz insists on ties I think. The Dorchester is fussy about shoes. It's just their quest for money these days. I can't think of a single establishment in London that would actually let me in, and keep a Russian gangster out.
Or Russian Prozzies...Last time I was at the Ritz, there was one particularly annoying loud mouth with his hired lady making a scene.
I don't get up to Town much these days but when I did,only a couple of years ago, the number of ladies of obvious negotiable virtue haunting the bars of the West End Hotels was amazing. And not just in obvious pick up places like the Mayfair Hotel either. Obviously the management of the hotels are catering for the wishes of their clientele otherwise such ladies would be excluded as they used to be.
The West End has really become even more of a shit hole than it ever was.
Mr. Meeks, Sir Edric, the protagonist, is a vain, selfish, mostly drunk, fornicating self-absorbed cad, who is also quite racist against elves.
Surprisingly, only one review disliked his antics, most of them really liked him.
It was also interesting to focus on writing a character full of vices and trying to add a virtue, rather than going from the other direction (his virtues are being quick-witted and genuinely liking horses).
If you don't agree with that, you're bloody uncivilised savages
I thought you were a northerner, Eagles?
Foe me, lunch is unequivocally midday and tea 4pm onwards. Dinner describes the size of a meal (large),and is not fixed to any time of the day. E.g. what do you call the big midday meal at Christmas?
I am indeed the most Northener and English PBer, but Christmas Day is a rare day and in our household we generally have our main Christmas dinner around 4pm, which is closer to dinner than lunch
A fairly devout Muslim friend of mine said his daughter had given up chocolate for Lent. Lots of blurred edges in the modern world.
It doesn't matter what you call it, the modern determinant is whether you eat at a table, or on a sofa.
Because of my diabetes and other ailments, all my life I've had fairly set meal times, so perhaps I'm set in my ways.
My mother insists I always all food is consumed either int the dining room or in the big kitchen.
That said, I've spent most of Friday night and Saturday morning talking to God on the great white telephone following a nasty bug/virus.
I was thinking more of the Muslim vs Christian dichotomy, though of course Issa is a prophet in Islam.
My Diabetic patients often go skewiff in Ramadan, no matter what the Imam says, they often still fast.
Not consuming liquid is a pain when the days are long. In hotter countries many people feel faint a lot during Ramadan when the sun's up.
Mr. Quidder, JK Rowling got repeatedly turned down too.
Publishers, especially large ones, are very conservative and risk averse. Self-publishing does remove them as strict gatekeepers, but it's very hard to make any money writing (don't let Mr. T fool you, there are thousands of struggling writers for every mid-list author, and hundreds of them for every A-list author).
There are probably 100,000 pro or semi-pro writers in the UK. Probably 1000 of them make a good living, i.e. over £50,000 a year?
Probably 100, at most, make £250,000 a year or more: so just 1 in 1000 writers makes very serious dosh.
Probably 10 make a million a year, or more. And are just stupidly rich.
So other than JK and yourself, who are the other 8 ;-)
I wish. In a good year I'm in that top 100, just about. Certainly not in that top 10.
Rowling is one. I suspect JoJo Moyes is another. Paula Hawkins these last two years. E L James, still.
Mostly women.
Julia Donaldson is the winner, at least in early 2016 -
@SeanT saw one of your books in a bookshop in Kendal this weekend. Took great pleasure telling my girlfriend that 'the author posts on that politics website I go on'. I'm pretty sure she was impressed.
"yes honey, I'm sure he does"
I think it would have been more impressed to tell that that bloke who used to be PM is a regular reader...
Only above the line, I would think.
Below the line before he became PM.
Even after, I seemed to remember on a number of occasions wise crack from the comments got a public airing. I presume somebody in Team Dave had been alerted to them.
Comments
Tom Watson isn't happy with Momentum and Lansman.
It doesn't matter what you call it, the modern determinant is whether you eat at a table, or on a sofa.
Incidentally, do I have wear a tie?
Mind you, I'm naturally frugal. I dislike spending money, whether it's mine or somebody else's.
Tea as a meal developed in the 18th century when tea was expensive. The Duchess of Bedford would invite friends to drink tea with boudoir sandwiches and cake. This developed in the upper classes as low tea in mid afternoon and the middle classes developed a high tea later in the afternoon.
There might be some very interesting betting strategies if those existed.
Jesus!
From memory, at least ...
Edit:
In the beginning of the sixteenth century in England, dinner, the main meal of the day, used to begin at 11:00AM. Meals tended over time to be eaten later and later in the day: by the eighteenth century, dinner was eaten at about 3:00PM…By the early nineteenth century, lunch, what Palmer in Moveable Feasts calls “the furtive snack,” had become a sit-down meal at the dning table in the middle of the day. Upper-class people were eating breakfast earlier, and dinner later, than they had formerly done…in 1808…dinner was now a late meal and supper a snack taken at the very end of the day before people retired to bed. For a long time luncheon was a very upper-class habit; ordinarily working people dined in the early evening, and contented themselves as they had done for centuries with a mid-day snack…Supper now means a light evening meal that replaces dinner; such a meal is especially popular if people have eaten a heavy lunch – The Rituals of Dinner, Margaret Visser [Penguid:New York] 1991 (p. 159-160) – Food Timeline
https://janeaustensworld.wordpress.com/2009/11/26/family-dinners-regency-style/
Not the book I was thinking of, but I think it gets the gist.
The distressing term "smart casual" is the norm.
Dinner is the principle meal of the day, whenever you happen to have it. Most people have it in the afternoon or evening, so they (incorrectly) assume that their 'dinnertime' is universal.
No no, you have Breakfast time (or at least the usual breakfast time) in the morning, lunchtime around midday (which may or may not be dinner if it is the biggest meal) and then tea time, at which most people have dinner.
I feel this is shaping up for another division along the lines of the pineapple pizza question.
Exactly, banging out 100k words of non-fiction over 2-3 months is easy-peasy, been there done that, got the royalties. Having the imagination to come up with a plot and the talent to write it up in such a way that the reader wants to turn the page and is satisfied when he/she reaches the end of the story but is sad that they have done so, now that requires something special.
Mr. T has it as does Mr. Dancer. It would be an interesting exercise to try and work out why they sell such different amounts.
Quantity doesn't buy you fame ... unless you are (were) John Holmes.
Fantasy is a little saturated but doesn't sell as well as many other genres.
Also, once you break through the author name on the cover is a great advantage.
A shocking decline in standards.
Mr. T has it as does Mr. Dancer. It would be an interesting exercise to try and work out why they sell such different amounts.
I think Sean T has said his first novels sold dreadfully. Perseverance counts for a lot.
I just bought him a new BMW x5, so he has better not be unhappy. It also goes to show I am not always entirely careful with my money.
Last year I had tea with Herself at the V&A, not in the same league, I know, but it was jolly nice and full of nice people (staff and punters). I think I'd sooner take my wife there rather than the usual haunts.
I haven't heard of 'The Master of Izindi', but you set a low bar if it only needs to beat a novel that, although I've not read it, I sort of know will be poor. Tell me of a book is better than Bleak House and I'll get it delivered to me by express.
My mother insists I always all food is consumed either int the dining room or in the big kitchen.
That said, I've spent most of Friday night and Saturday morning talking to God on the great white telephone following a nasty bug/virus.
Like musicians, it can often be total and utterly down to pure luck.
Over the years I have seen lots of great bands, with a catalogue of good tracks, very accomplished live but slog it out with 150 shows a year to make a living...then you see a big name of a similar genre and they are vastly inferior live show, but have sold millions.
Mr. Omnium, I've never read Bleak House, so that's tricky.
Mr. F, yeah, I think perseverance counts for a lot. Also, readers may like seeing a writer has more than one book done.
Mr. kle4, they do that with videogames too, such as the recently released Ghost Recon.
Mostly fantasy with a side-helping of sci-fi. I can especially recommend Kingdom Asunder. Sir Edric, unlike the rest, is a comedy, a sort of Blackadder meets Flashman (an antidote to political correctness).
Edited extra bit: is it irksome when I occasionally put this up? I have no idea, but it seems almost remiss not to given the conversation.
Dinner parties rather than formal dinners at home are also more the norm. I'd say we probably host only a few dozen formal events every year.
I've actually written two more (novel-length) Sir Edric stories. I want to get one out this year, if possible.
I did toy with sending free copies to people who would be offended, simply so they'd kick up a fuss and get me publicity, but decided against it.
My Diabetic patients often go skewiff in Ramadan, no matter what the Imam says, they often still fast.
Hopefully enough people read them so he can afford some history lessons
Mr. Llama, very kind of you
Edited extra bit: Mr. Eagles (2), did you get the very subtle historical plot clue in Journey to Altmortis? If you didn't, I'll PM it to you.
The West End has really become even more of a shit hole than it ever was.
Surprisingly, only one review disliked his antics, most of them really liked him.
It was also interesting to focus on writing a character full of vices and trying to add a virtue, rather than going from the other direction (his virtues are being quick-witted and genuinely liking horses).
Mr. Omnium, I've still got three books to work through, and that doesn't include the Complete Works of Shakespeare.