Hmm. Class 4 NI is currently payable at 9% on earnings between £8060 and £43000 so on a band of £34940. So a 1% increase is £349.40. Against which there is the abolition of class 2, currently a fixed rate of £2.80 a week or £145.60 a year. So a tax increase of ££203.80 this year and another £349.40 next year.
Must be a big tail as this is supposed to bring in £500mn, IIRC.
Nearly three quarters of all self employed are on £15,000 or less.
2.8m (half of all those with self employed income) earn less than £7,500. 1.3m earn between £7.500 and £15,000.
There are roughly 500,000 self employed (less than 10% of the total) who earn/declare £30k or more. 95,000 are paid in excess of £100k.
Anyone who knows a bit about self employment knows what this game is. You can earn £50k self employed, claim £10k expenses, pay yourself £10k per year and put the other £30k in a tax free pension scheme. Or some variant of this arrangement. That way you would pay zero income tax and the national insurance on your £10k 'salary' would be similarly non existent. For the rest of us we would pay £15k in tax and national insurance on a salary of £50k.
Yes, deductible expenses are one of the great incentives of self employment.
That said, I don't think the average tradesperson, childminder, online retailer, minicab driver or delivery person (and these are the real core of the self employed) are starting from £50k gross.
Those expenses have to be in the course of your work so how are they any different to me charging client lunches to expenses or train/air fares? True, if you work from home you can claim some heat and light and tax free computers are a big perk. But I (and many other employees) get a free laptop and iphone with my work anyway.
P.S. Saw your reply earlier. Thanks. I guess your videographer friend with the big client commissions is the one who dumped PAYE?
She still does her PAYE work on a part time basis (as an insurance) but her heart is in her own business.
Others are covering the expenses issue though I often wonder how many of the Bentleys and Range Rovers I see in my part of the world are business 'expenses'.
In fairness my restaurateur buddy has a Jag, a Bentley and a Porsche Cayenne all his business fleet (!) but beyond flash cars you can't live off business expenses.
Hmm. Class 4 NI is currently payable at 9% on earnings between £8060 and £43000 so on a band of £34940. So a 1% increase is £349.40. Against which there is the abolition of class 2, currently a fixed rate of £2.80 a week or £145.60 a year. So a tax increase of ££203.80 this year and another £349.40 next year.
Must be a big tail as this is supposed to bring in £500mn, IIRC.
Nearly three quarters of all self employed are on £15,000 or less.
2.8m (half of all those with self employed income) earn less than £7,500. 1.3m earn between £7.500 and £15,000.
There are roughly 500,000 self employed (less than 10% of the total) who earn/declare £30k or more. 95,000 are paid in excess of £100k.
Anyone who knows a bit about self employment knows what this game is. You can earn £50k self employed, claim £10k expenses, pay yourself £10k per year and put the other £30k in a tax free pension scheme. Or some variant of this arrangement. That way you would pay zero income tax and the national insurance on your £10k 'salary' would be similarly non existent. For the rest of us we would pay £15k in tax and national insurance on a salary of £50k.
What do you live on?
Combination of 'business expenses' which would include for instance your car and renting your home office from yourself, and circa 1k per month tax free salary.
I am afraid you clearly have no idea. If you are using a reputable accountant they would make very clear that living on business expenses is an absolute non starter. Everything has to be specifically for the business. Most these days also advise against using any part of your house for tax purposes as there has been a massive clampdown on such scams. Even your car can only be tax deductible for the bits that are actually used for business. The idea that you can live off such expenses is just fantasy - unless of course you are breaking the law and hoping to get away with it in which case more fool you.
Nonsense. The vagaries of business expenses are open to widespread abuse and everyone (including the taxman) knows it.
I see the BBC is describing today's Budget as 'The last ever Spring Budget'. What a stupid thing to say! They have obviously forgotten that Budget Day was moved from Spring to Autumn 1993 - 1996. Gordon Brown reverted to a Spring Budget. Who is to say that a future Chancellor will not do the same thing?
Hmm. Class 4 NI is currently payable at 9% on earnings between £8060 and £43000 so on a band of £34940. So a 1% increase is £349.40. Against which there is the abolition of class 2, currently a fixed rate of £2.80 a week or £145.60 a year. So a tax increase of ££203.80 this year and another £349.40 next year.
Must be a big tail as this is supposed to bring in £500mn, IIRC.
Nearly three quarters of all self employed are on £15,000 or less.
2.8m (half of all those with self employed income) earn less than £7,500. 1.3m earn between £7.500 and £15,000.
There are roughly 500,000 self employed (less than 10% of the total) who earn/declare £30k or more. 95,000 are paid in excess of £100k.
Anyone who knows a bit about self employment knows what this game is. You can earn £50k self employed, claim £10k expenses, pay yourself £10k per year and put the other £30k in a tax free pension scheme. Or some variant of this arrangement. That way you would pay zero income tax and the national insurance on your £10k 'salary' would be similarly non existent. For the rest of us we would pay £15k in tax and national insurance on a salary of £50k.
What do you live on?
Combination of 'business expenses' which would include for instance your car and renting your home office from yourself, and circa 1k per month tax free salary.
Well that is peanuts and wouldn't even cover my mortgage. I think you are living in a bit of a dream world to be honest.
How do you think people living on minimum wage survive? Take home pay on minimum wage is £1079 per month once tax and NI are deducted.
They barely do. That's my point. You are the person suggesting that someone with an income of £50k shovels £30k of it into a pension. I think that is completely farfetched.
£20k a year after the zero tax isn't that bad.
Would require you to live off £10k of business expenses. Tricky and borderline illegal if not completely illegal in many cases.
Hmm. Class 4 NI is currently payable at 9% on earnings between £8060 and £43000 so on a band of £34940. So a 1% increase is £349.40. Against which there is the abolition of class 2, currently a fixed rate of £2.80 a week or £145.60 a year. So a tax increase of ££203.80 this year and another £349.40 next year.
Must be a big tail as this is supposed to bring in £500mn, IIRC.
Nearly three quarters of all self employed are on £15,000 or less.
2.8m (half of all those with self employed income) earn less than £7,500. 1.3m earn between £7.500 and £15,000.
There are roughly 500,000 self employed (less than 10% of the total) who earn/declare £30k or more. 95,000 are paid in excess of £100k.
Anyone who knows a bit about self employment knows what this game is. You can earn £50k self employed, claim £10k expenses, pay yourself £10k per year and put the other £30k in a tax free pension scheme. Or some variant of this arrangement. That way you would pay zero income tax and the national insurance on your £10k 'salary' would be similarly non existent. For the rest of us we would pay £15k in tax and national insurance on a salary of £50k.
Yes, deductible expenses are one of the great incentives of self employment.
That said, I don't think the average tradesperson, childminder, online retailer, minicab driver or delivery person (and these are the real core of the self employed) are starting from £50k gross.
In my experience, amongst the professions contracting is getting more and more common and you would have a model pretty much like the one I have described above where no substantive tax is paid on high incomes. Self employment is just another form of tax avoidance. I'm not an accountant though, this is just my gut instinct.
Most of the self employed are not earning 50k , I agree. Most are in the JAM category. My partner has been earning £15k per year self employed. I think it would be better financially to quit this and get a minimum wage job on the tills at the supermarket, at least that way there are provisions for sick pay and eligibility for JSA in the event of redundancy.
self emplyed is really split in 2. Low paid self employed is a mug;s game. No expenses, low paid. High paid is glory. expense everything adn cut tax. This increase is aimed at them.
Hmm. Class 4 NI is currently payable at 9% on earnings between £8060 and £43000 so on a band of £34940. So a 1% increase is £349.40. Against which there is the abolition of class 2, currently a fixed rate of £2.80 a week or £145.60 a year. So a tax increase of ££203.80 this year and another £349.40 next year.
Must be a big tail as this is supposed to bring in £500mn, IIRC.
Nearly three quarters of all self employed are on £15,000 or less.
2.8m (half of all those with self employed income) earn less than £7,500. 1.3m earn between £7.500 and £15,000.
There are roughly 500,000 self employed (less than 10% of the total) who earn/declare £30k or more. 95,000 are paid in excess of £100k.
Anyone who knows a bit about self employment knows what this game is. You can earn £50k self employed, claim £10k expenses, pay yourself £10k per year and put the other £30k in a tax free pension scheme. Or some variant of this arrangement. That way you would pay zero income tax and the national insurance on your £10k 'salary' would be similarly non existent. For the rest of us we would pay £15k in tax and national insurance on a salary of £50k.
What do you live on?
Combination of 'business expenses' which would include for instance your car and renting your home office from yourself, and circa 1k per month tax free salary.
Well that is peanuts and wouldn't even cover my mortgage. I think you are living in a bit of a dream world to be honest.
How do you think people living on minimum wage survive? Take home pay on minimum wage is £1079 per month once tax and NI are deducted.
They barely do. That's my point. You are the person suggesting that someone with an income of £50k shovels £30k of it into a pension. I think that is completely farfetched.
£20k a year after the zero tax isn't that bad.
Would require you to live off £10k of business expenses. Tricky and borderline illegal if not completely illegal in many cases.
Yep, I doubt the taxman would look too kindly on it!
Nonsense. The vagaries of business expenses are open to widespread abuse and everyone (including the taxman) knows it.
Given that accountants are now held legally responsible if their clients are proved to be doing anything dodgy and the accountant passes it, I think you will find the sorts of scams you are talking about are becoming increasingly rare.
I think the NI rise on self employed is probably a mistake but I don't think this will blow up like the pasty tax somehow.
I couldn't believe that got so many people mad.
Well it was the Posh Boys targeting the working classes and it came at a difficult time generally (there was all that jerry can stuff going on as well)
"In fairness my restaurateur buddy has a Jag, a Bentley and a Porsche Cayenne all his business fleet (!) but beyond flash cars you can't live off business expenses."
Agreed.
There is a tangible difference between average incomes of £26k PAYE and £26k Self Employed once the tax rules come into play though.
I think the NI rise on self employed is probably a mistake but I don't think this will blow up like the pasty tax somehow.
I couldn't believe that got so many people mad.
Nor me. I seem to remember a Granny Tax too - was that the same budget? - I think the most damaging of taxes are those given silly/catchy names. I guess Hammond is dreading this one becoming the White Van Tax.
Hmm. Class 4 NI is currently payable at 9% on earnings between £8060 and £43000 so on a band of £34940. So a 1% increase is £349.40. Against which there is the abolition of class 2, currently a fixed rate of £2.80 a week or £145.60 a year. So a tax increase of ££203.80 this year and another £349.40 next year.
Must be a big tail as this is supposed to bring in £500mn, IIRC.
Nearly three quarters of all self employed are on £15,000 or less.
2.8m (half of all those with self employed income) earn less than £7,500. 1.3m earn between £7.500 and £15,000.
There are roughly 500,000 self employed (less than 10% of the total) who earn/declare £30k or more. 95,000 are paid in excess of £100k.
Anyone who knows a bit about self employment knows what this game is. You can earn £50k self employed, claim £10k expenses, pay yourself £10k per year and put the other £30k in a tax free pension scheme. Or some variant of this arrangement. That way you would pay zero income tax and the national insurance on your £10k 'salary' would be similarly non existent. For the rest of us we would pay £15k in tax and national insurance on a salary of £50k.
What do you live on?
Combination of 'business expenses' which would include for instance your car and renting your home office from yourself, and circa 1k per month tax free salary.
Well that is peanuts and wouldn't even cover my mortgage. I think you are living in a bit of a dream world to be honest.
How do you think people living on minimum wage survive? Take home pay on minimum wage is £1079 per month once tax and NI are deducted.
They barely do. That's my point. You are the person suggesting that someone with an income of £50k shovels £30k of it into a pension. I think that is completely farfetched.
Anyone who is careful with money and who bought property pre 2000 will be likely to have a very small or no mortgage by now. Also, many households will have 2 incomes. It is not difficult to live off a double income of £2000 per month and certainly feasible to live on a single income of £1k per month. Being self employed you can buy things like work clothes on business expenses.
I think the NI rise on self employed is probably a mistake but I don't think this will blow up like the pasty tax somehow.
I couldn't believe that got so many people mad.
The 'Pasty Tax' in itself was ludicrously trivial, but the right-wing press were just gagging for and opportunity to stick one to Cameron and Osborne - mainly because they'd formed a coalition with the Lib Dems and were posh. The 'Pasty Tax' just happened to come to hand. It's very different for May and Hammond, who are viewed as the standard bearers of Brexit, which now trumps everything. That qualifies them for a degree of protection, so they'll probably be okay for now.
Hmm. Class 4 NI is currently payable at 9% on earnings between £8060 and £43000 so on a band of £34940. So a 1% increase is £349.40. Against which there is the abolition of class 2, currently a fixed rate of £2.80 a week or £145.60 a year. So a tax increase of ££203.80 this year and another £349.40 next year.
Must be a big tail as this is supposed to bring in £500mn, IIRC.
snip
SNIP
What do you live on?
Combination of 'business expenses' which would include for instance your car and renting your home office from yourself, and circa 1k per month tax free salary.
Well that is peanuts and wouldn't even cover my mortgage. I think you are living in a bit of a dream world to be honest.
How do you think people living on minimum wage survive? Take home pay on minimum wage is £1079 per month once tax and NI are deducted.
They barely do. That's my point. You are the person suggesting that someone with an income of £50k shovels £30k of it into a pension. I think that is completely farfetched.
£20k a year after the zero tax isn't that bad.
Would require you to live off £10k of business expenses. Tricky and borderline illegal if not completely illegal in many cases.
Yep, I doubt the taxman would look too kindly on it!
I work with lots of s/e suppliers who I guess earn between £50k and £80k PA. If any of them were shovelling £10k of that into expenses to live off, I wouldn't be working with them - because they'd be in the cooler by now.
As a PAYE employee and not a business owner I can't pay family members just the right amount to get them tax credits, pay myself minimum wage then top up with dividends, etc.
"In fairness my restaurateur buddy has a Jag, a Bentley and a Porsche Cayenne all his business fleet (!) but beyond flash cars you can't live off business expenses."
Agreed.
There is a tangible difference between average incomes of £26k PAYE and £26k Self Employed once the tax rules come into play though.
"In fairness my restaurateur buddy has a Jag, a Bentley and a Porsche Cayenne all his business fleet (!) but beyond flash cars you can't live off business expenses."
Agreed.
There is a tangible difference between average incomes of £26k PAYE and £26k Self Employed once the tax rules come into play though.
Agreed. But, also as discussed, now add back holidays, sick pay, notice...
I think the NI rise on self employed is probably a mistake but I don't think this will blow up like the pasty tax somehow.
I couldn't believe that got so many people mad.
Nor me. I seem to remember a Granny Tax too - was that the same budget? - I think the most damaging of taxes are those given silly/catchy names. I guess Hammond is dreading this one becoming the White Van Tax.
Yes, the 'Granny Tax' was in the same budget. I remember an elderly relative of mine going on a tirade about it to me - how the posh boys were throwing him to the wolves etc. When I saw him a few weeks later he sheepishly revealed that, thanks to other measures Ozzy had introduced, his pension had actually increased.
Anyone who is careful with money and who bought property pre 2000 will be likely to have a very small or no mortgage by now. Also, many households will have 2 incomes. It is not difficult to live off a double income of £2000 per month and certainly feasible to live on a single income of £1k per month. Being self employed you can buy things like work clothes on business expenses.
Try reading the tax case of Mallalieu v Drummond.
A barrister was refused a tax deduction for the cost of her court gowns etc.
The expense was due purpose and thus not deductible.
Poor PSG. Unlucky second penalty, but that was only after defensive errors cost them 3 goals in the first place, they should never have been in that position.
Le Pen 73,000,000 Fillon 43,300,000 Macron 25,600,000 Hamon 19,800,000 Mélenchon 7,870,000
Observations:
* Le Pen is getting mentioned more than her two nearest rivals in the polls put together * Mélenchon is doing well to get around 11% in the polls, given that he isn't in the news much
That might not be the case if the media lay into it for a day or two.
As it doesn't affect many, is perceived to be fair, and is going to social care, I think it will have majority support, despite some of the conservative press
Le Pen 73,000,000 Fillon 43,300,000 Macron 25,600,000 Hamon 19,800,000 Mélenchon 7,870,000
Observations:
* Le Pen is getting mentioned more than her two nearest rivals in the polls put together * Mélenchon is doing well to get around 11% in the polls, given that he isn't in the news much
Le Pen shares her name with her father and niece. Even then "Le Pen" in quotes gives you 34 million, behind Fillon.
@Stark_Dawning Yes, I think the right-wing press like May a lot more than they did Cameron. Apparently Murdoch wasn't the biggest fan of Cameron as well. The Mail seemed to only 'put up with' Cameron because he wasn't Gordon Brown or Ed Miliband.
@kle4 And in the end, it still didn't help Ed Miliband. But at the time it was definitely a 'crisis' of sorts for the government. Many took the opportunity to dig the knife in Osborne. I remember people mocking his so called abilities as a 'master strategist' during that period.
Hmm. Class 4 NI is currently payable at 9% on earnings between £8060 and £43000 so on a band of £34940. So a 1% increase is £349.40. Against which there is the abolition of class 2, currently a fixed rate of £2.80 a week or £145.60 a year. So a tax increase of ££203.80 this year and another £349.40 next year.
Must be a big tail as this is supposed to bring in £500mn, IIRC.
snip
SNIP
What do you live on?
Combination of 'business expenses' which would include for instance your car and renting your home office from yourself, and circa 1k per month tax free salary.
Well that is peanuts and wouldn't even cover my mortgage. I think you are living in a bit of a dream world to be honest.
How do you think people living on minimum wage survive? Take home pay on minimum wage is £1079 per month once tax and NI are deducted.
They barely do. That's my point. You are the person suggesting that someone with an income of £50k shovels £30k of it into a pension. I think that is completely farfetched.
£20k a year after the zero tax isn't that bad.
Would require you to live off £10k of business expenses. Tricky and borderline illegal if not completely illegal in many cases.
Yep, I doubt the taxman would look too kindly on it!
I work with lots of s/e suppliers who I guess earn between £50k and £80k PA. If any of them were shovelling £10k of that into expenses to live off, I wouldn't be working with them - because they'd be in the cooler by now.
Hmm. Class 4 NI is currently payable at 9% on earnings between £8060 and £43000 so on a band of £34940. So a 1% increase is £349.40. Against which there is the abolition of class 2, currently a fixed rate of £2.80 a week or £145.60 a year. So a tax increase of ££203.80 this year and another £349.40 next year.
Must be a big tail as this is supposed to bring in £500mn, IIRC.
snip
SNIP
What do you live on?
Combination of 'business expenses' which would include for instance your car and renting your home office from yourself, and circa 1k per month tax free salary.
Well that is peanuts and wouldn't even cover my mortgage. I think you are living in a bit of a dream world to be honest.
How do you think people living on minimum wage survive? Take home pay on minimum wage is £1079 per month once tax and NI are deducted.
They barely do. That's my point. You are the person suggesting that someone with an income of £50k shovels £30k of it into a pension. I think that is completely farfetched.
£20k a year after the zero tax isn't that bad.
Would require you to live off £10k of business expenses. Tricky and borderline illegal if not completely illegal in many cases.
Yep, I doubt the taxman would look too kindly on it!
I work with lots of s/e suppliers who I guess earn between £50k and £80k PA. If any of them were shovelling £10k of that into expenses to live off, I wouldn't be working with them - because they'd be in the cooler by now.
On the actual topic of the rise in national insurance for the self employed: If this hits the JAM self employed, as I suspect it will, it is bad news and a bizarre move by the government with little obvious benefit. They will however be insulated from criticism because the self employed are not an obvious constituency for the Corbynites and Corbyn is useless anyway. Its just a tax rise.
I think the NI rise on self employed is probably a mistake but I don't think this will blow up like the pasty tax somehow.
I couldn't believe that got so many people mad.
Nor me. I seem to remember a Granny Tax too - was that the same budget? - I think the most damaging of taxes are those given silly/catchy names. I guess Hammond is dreading this one becoming the White Van Tax.
It was and Osborne's first omnishambles budget also had a 'church tax' and a 'caravan tax':
Hmm. Class 4 NI is currently payable at 9% on earnings between £8060 and £43000 so on a band of £34940. So a 1% increase is £349.40. Against which there is the abolition of class 2, currently a fixed rate of £2.80 a week or £145.60 a year. So a tax increase of ££203.80 this year and another £349.40 next year.
Must be a big tail as this is supposed to bring in £500mn, IIRC.
snip
SNIP
What do you live on?
Combination of 'business expenses' which would include for instance your car and renting your home office from yourself, and circa 1k per month tax free salary.
Well that is peanuts and wouldn't even cover my mortgage. I think you are living in a bit of a dream world to be honest.
How do you think people living on minimum wage survive? Take home pay on minimum wage is £1079 per month once tax and NI are deducted.
They barely do. That's my point. You are the person suggesting that someone with an income of £50k shovels £30k of it into a pension. I think that is completely farfetched.
£20k a year after the zero tax isn't that bad.
Would require you to live off £10k of business expenses. Tricky and borderline illegal if not completely illegal in many cases.
Yep, I doubt the taxman would look too kindly on it!
I work with lots of s/e suppliers who I guess earn between £50k and £80k PA. If any of them were shovelling £10k of that into expenses to live off, I wouldn't be working with them - because they'd be in the cooler by now.
Would include a car, home office, utility bills etc. Didn't even mention the possibility of paying your wife a salary if you are in a single income household. This would give you a double income of £22k per year tax free. More than enough to live on etc.
I suspect its one of these tax rises where those who aren't affected have little sympathy for those who are.
Many people on PAYE regard the self-employed as tax dodging cash in hand merchants who run a lot of personal costs through the books.
It's certainly a view I have a lot of sympathy for, and as a PAYE employed accountant, something I see a lot of. Mileage claims with only vague support, costs incurred that I might not consider allowable waved through by my partner (usually 'advertising' - at that nice restaurant up the road), any and all capital expenditure justified as somehow business related (iPads, iPhones... anything by Apple really).
I use my personal computer at home to work remotely. Did I (could I) have ever claimed that as a 'business expense'? Course I couldn't. But go self employed and literally everything goes.
And with HMRC investigations few and far between these days, it's no wonder people try it on, and equally no wonder that PAYE employees feel somewhat aggrieved at this situation.
Le Pen 73,000,000 Fillon 43,300,000 Macron 25,600,000 Hamon 19,800,000 Mélenchon 7,870,000
Observations:
* Le Pen is getting mentioned more than her two nearest rivals in the polls put together * Mélenchon is doing well to get around 11% in the polls, given that he isn't in the news much
Has anyone ever found any relationship between the number of Google searches and votes cast?
Le Pen 73,000,000 Fillon 43,300,000 Macron 25,600,000 Hamon 19,800,000 Mélenchon 7,870,000
Observations:
* Le Pen is getting mentioned more than her two nearest rivals in the polls put together * Mélenchon is doing well to get around 11% in the polls, given that he isn't in the news much
Has anyone ever found any relationship between the number of Google searches and votes cast?
Budget calculator says I'm £9.32 a month better off.
Don't spend it all at once.
Because I'm a good sort I declared around 200 quid of untaxed interest to HMRC in FY15/16 which I'll pay my 20% on next year. So that is half of it gone
Budget calculator says I'm £9.32 a month better off.
Don't spend it all at once.
Because I'm a good sort I declared around 200 quid of untaxed interest to HMRC in FY15/16 which I'll pay my 20% on next year. So that is half of it gone
Budget calculator says I'm £9.32 a month better off.
Don't spend it all at once.
Because I'm a good sort I declared around 200 quid of untaxed interest to HMRC in FY15/16 which I'll pay my 20% on next year. So that is half of it gone
Don't try repeating that to jezza...His head will explode trying to work that out.
Non stop whinge to be perfectly honest. The "perk" of being self employed is that you get to cut out certain stuff as business expenses - although I accept if you're doing it properly then it is limited.
BUT THAT IS REFLECTED IN YOUR INCOME FOR TAX & NI PURPOSES ANYWAY.
So after all that why shouldn't NI for employed and self employed be broadly bought into line ?
We'll all cost the state the same when we're 95 and up to our knees in our own piss.
I can actually see some merit in putting up NI for the self-employed and I don't really see why this government should be bound by the manifesto that the last government was elected on.
But what really did stick in the throat was Hammond's inference that the self-employed are spongers and have been fiddling the system while those brave workers in the private sector and the multi-national corporations have been paying their dues...
Because what this says to me is that this CoE doesn't understand or even particularly like small business owners which is a terrible, terrible position for the Conservative Party to find itself in.
Because I'm a good sort I declared around 200 quid of untaxed interest to HMRC in FY15/16 which I'll pay my 20% on next year. So that is half of it gone
Really? You mean £200 in total, which would be covered by the interest allowance (of either £1k or £500) or do you mean £1,200/£700 in total of which the balance of £200 falls to tax.
Yesterday the newspapers were approvingly writing about how more money would be found for social care. Now that the government has explained how some of the money will be raised, using measures that most people on here seem to find reasonable, the papers are up in arms. And the sums are small in the grand scheme of things.
It's almost as though there's some collective amnesia about the f*cking huge hole in the nation's finances that still remains to be closed.
Because I'm a good sort I declared around 200 quid of untaxed interest to HMRC in FY15/16 which I'll pay my 20% on next year. So that is half of it gone
Really? You mean £200 in total, which would be covered by the interest allowance (of either £1k or £500) or do you mean £1,200/£700 in total of which the balance of £200 falls to tax.
*Must stop talking tax - getting excited*
The interest allowance wasn't in place in FY ending April 16, it is this tax year the £1000 allowance comes in.
But what really did stick in the throat was Hammond's inference that the self-employed are spongers and have been fiddling the system while those brave workers in the private sector and the multi-national corporations have been paying their dues...
.
What did he say about self employed during the speech? Did he really infer that self-employed are spongers. I'd be suprised.
The CoE for the Big Banks and Google and Amazon while those shirkers who have been fiddling the system and not paying their dues - Plumbers, builders and White Van Man - Can go to hell...
But what really did stick in the throat was Hammond's inference that the self-employed are spongers and have been fiddling the system while those brave workers in the private sector and the multi-national corporations have been paying their dues...
.
What did he say about self employed during the speech? Did he really infer that self-employed are spongers. I'd be suprised.
Can't remember the exact phraseology but the inference was that public and self-employed take out equal amounts from the State but the self employed haven't been paying their way.
The interest allowance wasn't in place in FY ending April 16, it is this tax year the £1000 allowance comes in.
Just goes to show. My knowledge is a bit *too* up to date.
Anyway, must get back to drafting that letter to my MP, Peter Dowd about school funding... like he'll pay any notice to that with his five figure majority.
What it boils down to is that you can't make any change which adversely affects anyone without mass hysteria breaking out.
The sums involved are so small that I doubt any self-employed person would even notice them if they weren't told.
If they are genuinely self-employed then their income will be varying anyway so an extra 1% (only above the threshold) is barely noticeable and of course it's partially offset by the abolition of Class 2 anyway (and low earners will actually gain more by the abolition of Class 2).
The whole thing is laughable but that's the society we now live in.
Comments
Agreed.
There is a tangible difference between average incomes of £26k PAYE and £26k Self Employed once the tax rules come into play though.
- was that the same budget? - I think the most damaging of taxes are those given silly/catchy names. I guess Hammond is dreading this one becoming the White Van Tax.
A barrister was refused a tax deduction for the cost of her court gowns etc.
The expense was due purpose and thus not deductible.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2017/03/08/tragedy-chancellors-terrible-unforced-budget-error/
Well done the potters!
Le Pen 73,000,000
Fillon 43,300,000
Macron 25,600,000
Hamon 19,800,000
Mélenchon 7,870,000
Observations:
* Le Pen is getting mentioned more than her two nearest rivals in the polls put together
* Mélenchon is doing well to get around 11% in the polls, given that he isn't in the news much
@GIN1138 Yeah, I'd forgotten about Francis' Maude silly 'jerry can' comment.
@Bobajob Yes, there was a 'granny tax' and it was a part of the same budget: http://www.theweek.co.uk/politics/46683/budget-omni-shambles-even-bishops-are-revolting
@Stark_Dawning Yes, I think the right-wing press like May a lot more than they did Cameron. Apparently Murdoch wasn't the biggest fan of Cameron as well. The Mail seemed to only 'put up with' Cameron because he wasn't Gordon Brown or Ed Miliband.
@kle4 And in the end, it still didn't help Ed Miliband. But at the time it was definitely a 'crisis' of sorts for the government. Many took the opportunity to dig the knife in Osborne. I remember people mocking his so called abilities as a 'master strategist' during that period.
Ah, I see Scrapheap did it himself.
Well played sir.
https://www.gov.uk/expenses-if-youre-self-employed/overview
Many people on PAYE regard the self-employed as tax dodging cash in hand merchants who run a lot of personal costs through the books.
"Why should they be allowed to pay less NI than me" will be a widespread view.
Of course those affected negatively might well think differently
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/9223959/George-Osborne-preparing-u-turn-on-church-tax.html
https://www.theguardian.com/uk/the-northerner/2012/may/18/vat-static-caravans-george-osborne-east-yorkshire-pasties-grannies
There were multiple U-Turns in the following weeks.
Osborne had done himself no favours by going off on a political jolly to the USA the week before his Budget rather than concentrating on its details.
Didn't even mention the possibility of paying your wife a salary if you are in a single income household. This would give you a double income of £22k per year tax free. More than enough to live on etc.
I use my personal computer at home to work remotely. Did I (could I) have ever claimed that as a 'business expense'? Course I couldn't. But go self employed and literally everything goes.
And with HMRC investigations few and far between these days, it's no wonder people try it on, and equally no wonder that PAYE employees feel somewhat aggrieved at this situation.
I thought the media was laying into tax avoidance - like self employment loopholes e.g.
"Loopholes that allow many self-employed workers to pay less tax may be closed in the budget" - The Guardian Tuesday 7 March
BUT THAT IS REFLECTED IN YOUR INCOME FOR TAX & NI PURPOSES ANYWAY.
So after all that why shouldn't NI for employed and self employed be broadly bought into line ?
We'll all cost the state the same when we're 95 and up to our knees in our own piss.
https://twitter.com/stevefreeth/status/839596819311116289
But what really did stick in the throat was Hammond's inference that the self-employed are spongers and have been fiddling the system while those brave workers in the private sector and the multi-national corporations have been paying their dues...
Because what this says to me is that this CoE doesn't understand or even particularly like small business owners which is a terrible, terrible position for the Conservative Party to find itself in.
*Must stop talking tax - getting excited*
It's almost as though there's some collective amnesia about the f*cking huge hole in the nation's finances that still remains to be closed.
Journalists as a class are by and large idiots.
https://twitter.com/heraldscotland/status/839567727278886914
Not great Phil. Not great.
Anyway, must get back to drafting that letter to my MP, Peter Dowd about school funding... like he'll pay any notice to that with his five figure majority.
The sums involved are so small that I doubt any self-employed person would even notice them if they weren't told.
If they are genuinely self-employed then their income will be varying anyway so an extra 1% (only above the threshold) is barely noticeable and of course it's partially offset by the abolition of Class 2 anyway (and low earners will actually gain more by the abolition of Class 2).
The whole thing is laughable but that's the society we now live in.