I believe Republican Tory still posts from time to time.
Avery Limpole
Surely Avery was George Osborne or a close associate? No one else could have been bothered to go to so much effort to 'prove' the government was 'paying down the debt' when it was in fact adding to the debt
Avery always had a good sense of humour, a spat between him and Mick Pork could have me in stitches
I believe Republican Tory still posts from time to time.
Avery Limpole
Surely Avery was George Osborne or a close associate? No one else could have been bothered to go to so much effort to 'prove' the government was 'paying down the debt' when it was in fact adding to the debt
Avery always had a good sense of humour, a spat between him and Mick Pork could have me in stitches
Hmm. Class 4 NI is currently payable at 9% on earnings between £8060 and £43000 so on a band of £34940. So a 1% increase is £349.40. Against which there is the abolition of class 2, currently a fixed rate of £2.80 a week or £145.60 a year. So a tax increase of ££203.80 this year and another £349.40 next year.
What is all this hysteria about?
An overly prescriptive promise made during an election. If it is not such a big deal, the government can explain that.
Ave It is a right winger I'd like to see back. A former Labour-voting self made man he had some innovative policies such as 0% income tax for those earning £100k PA.
Hmm. Class 4 NI is currently payable at 9% on earnings between £8060 and £43000 so on a band of £34940. So a 1% increase is £349.40. Against which there is the abolition of class 2, currently a fixed rate of £2.80 a week or £145.60 a year. So a tax increase of ££203.80 this year and another £349.40 next year.
Hmm. Class 4 NI is currently payable at 9% on earnings between £8060 and £43000 so on a band of £34940. So a 1% increase is £349.40. Against which there is the abolition of class 2, currently a fixed rate of £2.80 a week or £145.60 a year. So a tax increase of ££203.80 this year and another £349.40 next year.
What is all this hysteria about?
Journalist Pinot Grigio funding.
£550 a year is a pretty severe increase and pretty much wipes out all the gains from the personal allowance increase the parliament. And inflation is likely to be high for the next few years, so it's quite a hit.
If you're rich enough to think losing £550 a year is a rounding error, good for you but for most people it will be a significantly hit.
There are some pretty precarious aspects to being self employed. I worry that if I get sick my finances could deteriorate very rapidly. A good friend of mine had cancer this year. He was not long ago appointed as a sheriff. 8 months on he is still on full salary (I think his strict contractual entitlement was 6 months at full but it has been extended). If I had been ill those 8 months I would be having to ask my child to leave his school.
Similarly, when I am sitting on my beach in the summer I am very conscious no one is paying me a penny for being there and the true cost of the holiday is the lost wages. I find it better not to think about it.
There are some pretty precarious aspects to being self employed. I worry that if I get sick my finances could deteriorate very rapidly. A good friend of mine had cancer this year. He was not long ago appointed as a sheriff. 8 months on he is still on full salary (I think his strict contractual entitlement was 6 months at full but it has been extended). If I had been ill those 8 months I would be having to ask my child to leave his school.
Similarly, when I am sitting on my beach in the summer I am very conscious no one is paying me a penny for being there and the true cost of the holiday is the lost wages. I find it better not to think about it.
David - I was referring to the absent yellow boxes! I completely agree about s/e and have said as much in several posts below. Mixed messages here I think sir.
There are some pretty precarious aspects to being self employed. I worry that if I get sick my finances could deteriorate very rapidly. A good friend of mine had cancer this year. He was not long ago appointed as a sheriff. 8 months on he is still on full salary (I think his strict contractual entitlement was 6 months at full but it has been extended). If I had been ill those 8 months I would be having to ask my child to leave his school.
Similarly, when I am sitting on my beach in the summer I am very conscious no one is paying me a penny for being there and the true cost of the holiday is the lost wages. I find it better not to think about it.
A friend who is an IT contractor forces himself to save 20% of his earnings in a rainy day fund to cover sickness, unemployment, holidays etc. Seems to work well for him.
There are some pretty precarious aspects to being self employed. I worry that if I get sick my finances could deteriorate very rapidly. A good friend of mine had cancer this year. He was not long ago appointed as a sheriff. 8 months on he is still on full salary (I think his strict contractual entitlement was 6 months at full but it has been extended). If I had been ill those 8 months I would be having to ask my child to leave his school.
Similarly, when I am sitting on my beach in the summer I am very conscious no one is paying me a penny for being there and the true cost of the holiday is the lost wages. I find it better not to think about it.
David - I was referring to the absent yellow boxes! I completely agree about s/e and have said as much in several posts below. Mixed messages here I think sir.
Apologies. I misunderstood. The logic of those boxes was somewhat contrived but they did contain a lot of information.
There are some pretty precarious aspects to being self employed. I worry that if I get sick my finances could deteriorate very rapidly. A good friend of mine had cancer this year. He was not long ago appointed as a sheriff. 8 months on he is still on full salary (I think his strict contractual entitlement was 6 months at full but it has been extended). If I had been ill those 8 months I would be having to ask my child to leave his school.
Similarly, when I am sitting on my beach in the summer I am very conscious no one is paying me a penny for being there and the true cost of the holiday is the lost wages. I find it better not to think about it.
David - I was referring to the absent yellow boxes! I completely agree about s/e and have said as much in several posts below. Mixed messages here I think sir.
Apologies. I misunderstood. The logic of those boxes was somewhat contrived but they did contain a lot of information.
Ah. Thanks. No problem. I was unclear in my reference. Forget it.
Hmm. Class 4 NI is currently payable at 9% on earnings between £8060 and £43000 so on a band of £34940. So a 1% increase is £349.40. Against which there is the abolition of class 2, currently a fixed rate of £2.80 a week or £145.60 a year. So a tax increase of ££203.80 this year and another £349.40 next year.
What is all this hysteria about?
Journalist Pinot Grigio funding.
£550 a year is a pretty severe increase and pretty much wipes out all the gains from the personal allowance increase the parliament. And inflation is likely to be high for the next few years, so it's quite a hit.
If you're rich enough to think losing £550 a year is a rounding error, good for you but for most people it will be a significantly hit.
That would be the personal allowance that those earning over £100K have already lost...
There are some pretty precarious aspects to being self employed. I worry that if I get sick my finances could deteriorate very rapidly. A good friend of mine had cancer this year. He was not long ago appointed as a sheriff. 8 months on he is still on full salary (I think his strict contractual entitlement was 6 months at full but it has been extended). If I had been ill those 8 months I would be having to ask my child to leave his school.
Similarly, when I am sitting on my beach in the summer I am very conscious no one is paying me a penny for being there and the true cost of the holiday is the lost wages. I find it better not to think about it.
A friend who is an IT contractor forces himself to save 20% of his earnings in a rainy day fund to cover sickness, unemployment, holidays etc. Seems to work well for him.
Yep. That's about right. More when you add in notice periods. I am on three months' notice which is pretty standard among professionals. Worth a lot.
As May can completely ignore labour, she can do what she likes. She also knows that anyone who works has nowhere else to go.
Now you have the supreme irony of Labour complaining about a tax increase in their budget response which relative to the taxes they want to increase is a mere pin prick.
There are some pretty precarious aspects to being self employed. I worry that if I get sick my finances could deteriorate very rapidly. A good friend of mine had cancer this year. He was not long ago appointed as a sheriff. 8 months on he is still on full salary (I think his strict contractual entitlement was 6 months at full but it has been extended). If I had been ill those 8 months I would be having to ask my child to leave his school.
Similarly, when I am sitting on my beach in the summer I am very conscious no one is paying me a penny for being there and the true cost of the holiday is the lost wages. I find it better not to think about it.
A friend who is an IT contractor forces himself to save 20% of his earnings in a rainy day fund to cover sickness, unemployment, holidays etc. Seems to work well for him.
He is very wise but that assumes something not catastrophic. In the meantime his effective rate of deductions is way higher than the NI paid by those in employment. I just don't see these differences as particularly telling. I lost more when the Scottish government decided not to increase the basic rate band.
Hmm. Class 4 NI is currently payable at 9% on earnings between £8060 and £43000 so on a band of £34940. So a 1% increase is £349.40. Against which there is the abolition of class 2, currently a fixed rate of £2.80 a week or £145.60 a year. So a tax increase of ££203.80 this year and another £349.40 next year.
What is all this hysteria about?
Journalist Pinot Grigio funding.
£550 a year is a pretty severe increase and pretty much wipes out all the gains from the personal allowance increase the parliament. And inflation is likely to be high for the next few years, so it's quite a hit.
If you're rich enough to think losing £550 a year is a rounding error, good for you but for most people it will be a significantly hit.
That would be the personal allowance that those earning over £100K have already lost...
Someone on £42k gross profits will pay the full £550
Hmm. Class 4 NI is currently payable at 9% on earnings between £8060 and £43000 so on a band of £34940. So a 1% increase is £349.40. Against which there is the abolition of class 2, currently a fixed rate of £2.80 a week or £145.60 a year. So a tax increase of ££203.80 this year and another £349.40 next year.
What is all this hysteria about?
Journalist Pinot Grigio funding.
£550 a year is a pretty severe increase and pretty much wipes out all the gains from the personal allowance increase the parliament. And inflation is likely to be high for the next few years, so it's quite a hit.
If you're rich enough to think losing £550 a year is a rounding error, good for you but for most people it will be a significantly hit.
Where did you get £550 a year from? He said £349.40 a year at the most. Not nice but less than £1 a day.
Hmm. Class 4 NI is currently payable at 9% on earnings between £8060 and £43000 so on a band of £34940. So a 1% increase is £349.40. Against which there is the abolition of class 2, currently a fixed rate of £2.80 a week or £145.60 a year. So a tax increase of ££203.80 this year and another £349.40 next year.
What is all this hysteria about?
Journalist Pinot Grigio funding.
£550 a year is a pretty severe increase and pretty much wipes out all the gains from the personal allowance increase the parliament. And inflation is likely to be high for the next few years, so it's quite a hit.
If you're rich enough to think losing £550 a year is a rounding error, good for you but for most people it will be a significantly hit.
That would be the personal allowance that those earning over £100K have already lost...
Someone on £42k gross profits will pay the full £550
True, just pointing out that for a lot of the self employed the personal allowance is a distant memory.
Hmm. Class 4 NI is currently payable at 9% on earnings between £8060 and £43000 so on a band of £34940. So a 1% increase is £349.40. Against which there is the abolition of class 2, currently a fixed rate of £2.80 a week or £145.60 a year. So a tax increase of ££203.80 this year and another £349.40 next year.
What is all this hysteria about?
Journalist Pinot Grigio funding.
£550 a year is a pretty severe increase and pretty much wipes out all the gains from the personal allowance increase the parliament. And inflation is likely to be high for the next few years, so it's quite a hit.
If you're rich enough to think losing £550 a year is a rounding error, good for you but for most people it will be a significantly hit.
Where did you get £550 a year from? He said £349.40 a year at the most. Not nice but less than £1 a day.
No, read what he said. £203.80 a year tax rise from 2018/19. A further £349.40 a year tax rise from 2019/20. So over £550 a year extra tax from 2019/20 compared to today.
Just imagine the headlines if PAYE employees were subjected to a similar tax rise.
Hmm. Class 4 NI is currently payable at 9% on earnings between £8060 and £43000 so on a band of £34940. So a 1% increase is £349.40. Against which there is the abolition of class 2, currently a fixed rate of £2.80 a week or £145.60 a year. So a tax increase of ££203.80 this year and another £349.40 next year.
What is all this hysteria about?
Journalist Pinot Grigio funding.
£550 a year is a pretty severe increase and pretty much wipes out all the gains from the personal allowance increase the parliament. And inflation is likely to be high for the next few years, so it's quite a hit.
If you're rich enough to think losing £550 a year is a rounding error, good for you but for most people it will be a significantly hit.
Where did you get £550 a year from? He said £349.40 a year at the most. Not nice but less than £1 a day.
No, read what he said. £203.80 a year tax rise from 2018/19. A further £349.40 tax rise from 2019/20 So over £550 a year extra tax from 2019/20 compared to today.
For the avoidance of doubt these figures are not warranted, not giving financial advice etc etc. Just my understanding.
Hmm. Class 4 NI is currently payable at 9% on earnings between £8060 and £43000 so on a band of £34940. So a 1% increase is £349.40. Against which there is the abolition of class 2, currently a fixed rate of £2.80 a week or £145.60 a year. So a tax increase of ££203.80 this year and another £349.40 next year.
What is all this hysteria about?
Journalist Pinot Grigio funding.
£550 a year is a pretty severe increase and pretty much wipes out all the gains from the personal allowance increase the parliament. And inflation is likely to be high for the next few years, so it's quite a hit.
If you're rich enough to think losing £550 a year is a rounding error, good for you but for most people it will be a significantly hit.
Where did you get £550 a year from? He said £349.40 a year at the most. Not nice but less than £1 a day.
No, read what he said. £203.80 a year tax rise from 2018/19. A further £349.40 tax rise from 2019/20 So over £550 a year extra tax from 2019/20 compared to today.
For the avoidance of doubt these figures are not warranted, not giving financial advice etc etc. Just my understanding.
As far as I can see, your numbers are correct. I do my wife'a tax return for her each year (she's self employed) so I'm confident in your methodology.
I suspect a consequence of this rise will be more attempts to offset spurious expenses against tax. Whether HMRC has the capacity to investigate these remains to be seen.
Hmm. Class 4 NI is currently payable at 9% on earnings between £8060 and £43000 so on a band of £34940. So a 1% increase is £349.40. Against which there is the abolition of class 2, currently a fixed rate of £2.80 a week or £145.60 a year. So a tax increase of ££203.80 this year and another £349.40 next year.
Hmm. Class 4 NI is currently payable at 9% on earnings between £8060 and £43000 so on a band of £34940. So a 1% increase is £349.40. Against which there is the abolition of class 2, currently a fixed rate of £2.80 a week or £145.60 a year. So a tax increase of ££203.80 this year and another £349.40 next year.
Hmm. Class 4 NI is currently payable at 9% on earnings between £8060 and £43000 so on a band of £34940. So a 1% increase is £349.40. Against which there is the abolition of class 2, currently a fixed rate of £2.80 a week or £145.60 a year. So a tax increase of ££203.80 this year and another £349.40 next year.
He needs numbers for the votes too and I trust Mr Newton Dunn if he thinks he doesn't have them.
Mr Hammond can simply ask the said backbenchers which other taxes they will raise before he has to slash spending on the NHS and social care and then take that platform to their constituents!
There are some pretty precarious aspects to being self employed. I worry that if I get sick my finances could deteriorate very rapidly. A good friend of mine had cancer this year. He was not long ago appointed as a sheriff. 8 months on he is still on full salary (I think his strict contractual entitlement was 6 months at full but it has been extended). If I had been ill those 8 months I would be having to ask my child to leave his school.
Similarly, when I am sitting on my beach in the summer I am very conscious no one is paying me a penny for being there and the true cost of the holiday is the lost wages. I find it better not to think about it.
A friend who is an IT contractor forces himself to save 20% of his earnings in a rainy day fund to cover sickness, unemployment, holidays etc. Seems to work well for him.
Yep. That's about right. More when you add in notice periods. I am on three months' notice which is pretty standard among professionals. Worth a lot.
I have gone in a slightly different direction and pay substantial amounts of insurance to protect myself from illness or incapacity. I just accept that there is no such thing as paid holiday for me. If you add my insurance premiums pension contributions and fees to my tax bills I pay easily as much as an employee for all the things they get by law.
Hmm. Class 4 NI is currently payable at 9% on earnings between £8060 and £43000 so on a band of £34940. So a 1% increase is £349.40. Against which there is the abolition of class 2, currently a fixed rate of £2.80 a week or £145.60 a year. So a tax increase of ££203.80 this year and another £349.40 next year.
What is all this hysteria about?
Journalist Pinot Grigio funding.
£550 a year is a pretty severe increase and pretty much wipes out all the gains from the personal allowance increase the parliament. And inflation is likely to be high for the next few years, so it's quite a hit.
If you're rich enough to think losing £550 a year is a rounding error, good for you but for most people it will be a significantly hit.
Where did you get £550 a year from? He said £349.40 a year at the most. Not nice but less than £1 a day.
No, read what he said. £203.80 a year tax rise from 2018/19. A further £349.40 tax rise from 2019/20 So over £550 a year extra tax from 2019/20 compared to today.
For the avoidance of doubt these figures are not warranted, not giving financial advice etc etc. Just my understanding.
As far as I can see, your numbers are correct. I do my wife'a tax return for her each year (she's self employed) so I'm confident in your methodology.
I suspect a consequence of this rise will be more attempts to offset spurious expenses against tax. Whether HMRC has the capacity to investigate these remains to be seen.
I hope she pays you for your time at a rate totally unrelated to any unused allowance you may have. Ahem.
I suppose Nic's omnishambles budget will be reflected in significant falls in support for Tories' lead over Labour, reputation for competence, and leadership.
Why is everyone making a fuss about this now? Osborn put up national insurance for millions of public sector workers last year from 10.4% to 12%. I don't remember such a furor then but then your average Tory probably doesn't care what your average public sector worker gets as long as it's lower than last year.
Why is everyone making a fuss about this now? Osborn put up national insurance for millions of public sector workers last year from 10.4% to 12%. I don't remember such a furor then but then your average Tory probably doesn't care what your average public sector worker gets as long as it's lower than last year.
To be honest I had forgotten about that. It makes this song and dance even more absurd.
Hmm. Class 4 NI is currently payable at 9% on earnings between £8060 and £43000 so on a band of £34940. So a 1% increase is £349.40. Against which there is the abolition of class 2, currently a fixed rate of £2.80 a week or £145.60 a year. So a tax increase of ££203.80 this year and another £349.40 next year.
Why is everyone making a fuss about this now? Osborn put up national insurance for millions of public sector workers last year from 10.4% to 12%. I don't remember such a furor then but then your average Tory probably doesn't care what your average public sector worker gets as long as it's lower than last year.
To be honest I had forgotten about that. It makes this song and dance even more absurd.
Why is everyone making a fuss about this now? Osborn put up national insurance for millions of public sector workers last year from 10.4% to 12%. I don't remember such a furor then but then your average Tory probably doesn't care what your average public sector worker gets as long as it's lower than last year.
Well for a start the standard sick pay for public sector employees after 5 years is 26 weeks full pay followed by 26 weeks half pay.
The standard sick pay for the self employed is zero. And if you are sick for too long your company goes bust and you are out of work as well.
I suppose Nic's omnishambles budget will be reflected in significant falls in support for Tories' lead over Labour, reputation for competence, and leadership.
Well that is if Labour had some semblance of competence or leadership...
It is a reminder that we could return to politics as normal a lot quicker than expected once the wheels come off May's wagon.
Hmm. Class 4 NI is currently payable at 9% on earnings between £8060 and £43000 so on a band of £34940. So a 1% increase is £349.40. Against which there is the abolition of class 2, currently a fixed rate of £2.80 a week or £145.60 a year. So a tax increase of ££203.80 this year and another £349.40 next year.
What is all this hysteria about?
Journalist Pinot Grigio funding.
£550 a year is a pretty severe increase and pretty much wipes out all the gains from the personal allowance increase the parliament. And inflation is likely to be high for the next few years, so it's quite a hit.
If you're rich enough to think losing £550 a year is a rounding error, good for you but for most people it will be a significantly hit.
Where did you get £550 a year from? He said £349.40 a year at the most. Not nice but less than £1 a day.
No, read what he said. £203.80 a year tax rise from 2018/19. A further £349.40 tax rise from 2019/20 So over £550 a year extra tax from 2019/20 compared to today.
For the avoidance of doubt these figures are not warranted, not giving financial advice etc etc. Just my understanding.
As far as I can see, your numbers are correct. I do my wife'a tax return for her each year (she's self employed) so I'm confident in your methodology.
I suspect a consequence of this rise will be more attempts to offset spurious expenses against tax. Whether HMRC has the capacity to investigate these remains to be seen.
I hope she pays you for your time at a rate totally unrelated to any unused allowance you may have. Ahem.
I suppose Nic's omnishambles budget will be reflected in significant falls in support for Tories' lead over Labour, reputation for competence, and leadership.
Well that is if Labour had some semblance of competence or leadership...
It is a reminder that we could return to politics as normal a lot quicker than expected once the wheels come off May's wagon.
I suppose Nic's omnishambles budget will be reflected in significant falls in support for Tories' lead over Labour, reputation for competence, and leadership.
Well that is if Labour had some semblance of competence or leadership...
It is a reminder that we could return to politics as normal a lot quicker than expected once the wheels come off May's wagon.
Although in truth, someone needs to find a full set of four wheels and attach them to Labour's wagon as well, taking great care that they are installed the right way around.
Hmm. Class 4 NI is currently payable at 9% on earnings between £8060 and £43000 so on a band of £34940. So a 1% increase is £349.40. Against which there is the abolition of class 2, currently a fixed rate of £2.80 a week or £145.60 a year. So a tax increase of ££203.80 this year and another £349.40 next year.
Hmm. Class 4 NI is currently payable at 9% on earnings between £8060 and £43000 so on a band of £34940. So a 1% increase is £349.40. Against which there is the abolition of class 2, currently a fixed rate of £2.80 a week or £145.60 a year. So a tax increase of ££203.80 this year and another £349.40 next year.
Must be a big tail as this is supposed to bring in £500mn, IIRC.
Nearly three quarters of all self employed are on £15,000 or less.
2.8m (half of all those with self employed income) earn less than £7,500. 1.3m earn between £7.500 and £15,000.
There are roughly 500,000 self employed (less than 10% of the total) who earn/declare £30k or more. 95,000 are paid in excess of £100k.
Anyone who knows a bit about self employment knows what this game is. You can earn £50k self employed, claim £10k expenses, pay yourself £10k per year and put the other £30k in a tax free pension scheme. Or some variant of this arrangement. That way you would pay zero income tax and the national insurance on your £10k 'salary' would be similarly non existent. For the rest of us we would pay £15k in tax and national insurance on a salary of £50k.
Hmm. Class 4 NI is currently payable at 9% on earnings between £8060 and £43000 so on a band of £34940. So a 1% increase is £349.40. Against which there is the abolition of class 2, currently a fixed rate of £2.80 a week or £145.60 a year. So a tax increase of ££203.80 this year and another £349.40 next year.
Must be a big tail as this is supposed to bring in £500mn, IIRC.
Nearly three quarters of all self employed are on £15,000 or less.
2.8m (half of all those with self employed income) earn less than £7,500. 1.3m earn between £7.500 and £15,000.
There are roughly 500,000 self employed (less than 10% of the total) who earn/declare £30k or more. 95,000 are paid in excess of £100k.
Anyone who knows a bit about self employment knows what this game is. You can earn £50k self employed, claim £10k expenses, pay yourself £10k per year and put the other £30k in a tax free pension scheme. Or some variant of this arrangement. That way you would pay zero income tax and the national insurance on your £10k 'salary' would be similarly non existent. For the rest of us we would pay £15k in tax and national insurance on a salary of £50k.
Hmm. Class 4 NI is currently payable at 9% on earnings between £8060 and £43000 so on a band of £34940. So a 1% increase is £349.40. Against which there is the abolition of class 2, currently a fixed rate of £2.80 a week or £145.60 a year. So a tax increase of ££203.80 this year and another £349.40 next year.
Must be a big tail as this is supposed to bring in £500mn, IIRC.
Nearly three quarters of all self employed are on £15,000 or less.
2.8m (half of all those with self employed income) earn less than £7,500. 1.3m earn between £7.500 and £15,000.
There are roughly 500,000 self employed (less than 10% of the total) who earn/declare £30k or more. 95,000 are paid in excess of £100k.
Anyone who knows a bit about self employment knows what this game is. You can earn £50k self employed, claim £10k expenses, pay yourself £10k per year and put the other £30k in a tax free pension scheme. Or some variant of this arrangement. That way you would pay zero income tax and the national insurance on your £10k 'salary' would be similarly non existent. For the rest of us we would pay £15k in tax and national insurance on a salary of £50k.
Yes, deductible expenses are one of the great incentives of self employment.
That said, I don't think the average tradesperson, childminder, online retailer, minicab driver or delivery person (and these are the real core of the self employed) are starting from £50k gross.
Apropos of nothing in particular, I was reading a Research Paper today (on Maupertuis’ expedition to Lapland in the 1730s) and I discovered that the Swedish political system at the time had two parties – the “Hats” (who were backed by the French) and the “Caps”. Does anyone know anything about them? “Votes for Bonnets”, that’s what I say!
With very few exceptions, the self employed are not going to vote for Labour. Corbyn keeps talking about wanting to end austerity for the disabled and people on benefits. This has no resonance whatsoever with people who are self employed.
Hmm. Class 4 NI is currently payable at 9% on earnings between £8060 and £43000 so on a band of £34940. So a 1% increase is £349.40. Against which there is the abolition of class 2, currently a fixed rate of £2.80 a week or £145.60 a year. So a tax increase of ££203.80 this year and another £349.40 next year.
Must be a big tail as this is supposed to bring in £500mn, IIRC.
Nearly three quarters of all self employed are on £15,000 or less.
2.8m (half of all those with self employed income) earn less than £7,500. 1.3m earn between £7.500 and £15,000.
There are roughly 500,000 self employed (less than 10% of the total) who earn/declare £30k or more. 95,000 are paid in excess of £100k.
Anyone who knows a bit about self employment knows what this game is. You can earn £50k self employed, claim £10k expenses, pay yourself £10k per year and put the other £30k in a tax free pension scheme. Or some variant of this arrangement. That way you would pay zero income tax and the national insurance on your £10k 'salary' would be similarly non existent. For the rest of us we would pay £15k in tax and national insurance on a salary of £50k.
Hmm. Class 4 NI is currently payable at 9% on earnings between £8060 and £43000 so on a band of £34940. So a 1% increase is £349.40. Against which there is the abolition of class 2, currently a fixed rate of £2.80 a week or £145.60 a year. So a tax increase of ££203.80 this year and another £349.40 next year.
Must be a big tail as this is supposed to bring in £500mn, IIRC.
Nearly three quarters of all self employed are on £15,000 or less.
2.8m (half of all those with self employed income) earn less than £7,500. 1.3m earn between £7.500 and £15,000.
There are roughly 500,000 self employed (less than 10% of the total) who earn/declare £30k or more. 95,000 are paid in excess of £100k.
Anyone who knows a bit about self employment knows what this game is. You can earn £50k self employed, claim £10k expenses, pay yourself £10k per year and put the other £30k in a tax free pension scheme. Or some variant of this arrangement. That way you would pay zero income tax and the national insurance on your £10k 'salary' would be similarly non existent. For the rest of us we would pay £15k in tax and national insurance on a salary of £50k.
What do you live on?
Combination of 'business expenses' which would include for instance your car and renting your home office from yourself, and circa 1k per month tax free salary.
Hmm. Class 4 NI is currently payable at 9% on earnings between £8060 and £43000 so on a band of £34940. So a 1% increase is £349.40. Against which there is the abolition of class 2, currently a fixed rate of £2.80 a week or £145.60 a year. So a tax increase of ££203.80 this year and another £349.40 next year.
Must be a big tail as this is supposed to bring in £500mn, IIRC.
Nearly three quarters of all self employed are on £15,000 or less.
2.8m (half of all those with self employed income) earn less than £7,500. 1.3m earn between £7.500 and £15,000.
There are roughly 500,000 self employed (less than 10% of the total) who earn/declare £30k or more. 95,000 are paid in excess of £100k.
Anyone who knows a bit about self employment knows what this game is. You can earn £50k self employed, claim £10k expenses, pay yourself £10k per year and put the other £30k in a tax free pension scheme. Or some variant of this arrangement. That way you would pay zero income tax and the national insurance on your £10k 'salary' would be similarly non existent. For the rest of us we would pay £15k in tax and national insurance on a salary of £50k.
What do you live on?
i do the same but use ltd company i pay myself minimum paye to get NI credit for pension and top up using the 5k dividend allowance each for me and wife and leave rest in business to invest / pensions etc. my wife supplements household income with her job . Of course from 2018 will have to pay more tax with dividend allowance being cut as a result of today's announcements .
Hmm. Class 4 NI is currently payable at 9% on earnings between £8060 and £43000 so on a band of £34940. So a 1% increase is £349.40. Against which there is the abolition of class 2, currently a fixed rate of £2.80 a week or £145.60 a year. So a tax increase of ££203.80 this year and another £349.40 next year.
Must be a big tail as this is supposed to bring in £500mn, IIRC.
Nearly three quarters of all self employed are on £15,000 or less.
2.8m (half of all those with self employed income) earn less than £7,500. 1.3m earn between £7.500 and £15,000.
There are roughly 500,000 self employed (less than 10% of the total) who earn/declare £30k or more. 95,000 are paid in excess of £100k.
Anyone who knows a bit about self employment knows what this game is. You can earn £50k self employed, claim £10k expenses, pay yourself £10k per year and put the other £30k in a tax free pension scheme. Or some variant of this arrangement. That way you would pay zero income tax and the national insurance on your £10k 'salary' would be similarly non existent. For the rest of us we would pay £15k in tax and national insurance on a salary of £50k.
Yes, deductible expenses are one of the great incentives of self employment.
That said, I don't think the average tradesperson, childminder, online retailer, minicab driver or delivery person (and these are the real core of the self employed) are starting from £50k gross.
Those expenses have to be in the course of your work so how are they any different to me charging client lunches to expenses or train/air fares? True, if you work from home you can claim some heat and light and tax free computers are a big perk. But I (and many other employees) get a free laptop and iphone with my work anyway.
P.S. Saw your reply earlier. Thanks. I guess your videographer friend with the big client commissions is the one who dumped PAYE?
Hmm. Class 4 NI is currently payable at 9% on earnings between £8060 and £43000 so on a band of £34940. So a 1% increase is £349.40. Against which there is the abolition of class 2, currently a fixed rate of £2.80 a week or £145.60 a year. So a tax increase of ££203.80 this year and another £349.40 next year.
Must be a big tail as this is supposed to bring in £500mn, IIRC.
Nearly three quarters of all self employed are on £15,000 or less.
2.8m (half of all those with self employed income) earn less than £7,500. 1.3m earn between £7.500 and £15,000.
There are roughly 500,000 self employed (less than 10% of the total) who earn/declare £30k or more. 95,000 are paid in excess of £100k.
Anyone who knows a bit about self employment knows what this game is. You can earn £50k self employed, claim £10k expenses, pay yourself £10k per year and put the other £30k in a tax free pension scheme. Or some variant of this arrangement. That way you would pay zero income tax and the national insurance on your £10k 'salary' would be similarly non existent. For the rest of us we would pay £15k in tax and national insurance on a salary of £50k.
What do you live on?
Combination of 'business expenses' which would include for instance your car and renting your home office from yourself, and circa 1k per month tax free salary.
Well that is peanuts and wouldn't even cover my mortgage. I think you are living in a bit of a dream world to be honest.
One of the worst exploits I saw some middle class self employed in the past was to minimise their pay for 2-3 years leading to when junior was going to uni...Thus under old system claim free tuition as income below the threshold...Then get the reserves out of the company.
Hmm. Class 4 NI is currently payable at 9% on earnings between £8060 and £43000 so on a band of £34940. So a 1% increase is £349.40. Against which there is the abolition of class 2, currently a fixed rate of £2.80 a week or £145.60 a year. So a tax increase of ££203.80 this year and another £349.40 next year.
Must be a big tail as this is supposed to bring in £500mn, IIRC.
Nearly three quarters of all self employed are on £15,000 or less.
2.8m (half of all those with self employed income) earn less than £7,500. 1.3m earn between £7.500 and £15,000.
There are roughly 500,000 self employed (less than 10% of the total) who earn/declare £30k or more. 95,000 are paid in excess of £100k.
Anyone who knows a bit about self employment knows what this game is. You can earn £50k self employed, claim £10k expenses, pay yourself £10k per year and put the other £30k in a tax free pension scheme. Or some variant of this arrangement. That way you would pay zero income tax and the national insurance on your £10k 'salary' would be similarly non existent. For the rest of us we would pay £15k in tax and national insurance on a salary of £50k.
What do you live on?
Combination of 'business expenses' which would include for instance your car and renting your home office from yourself, and circa 1k per month tax free salary.
I am afraid you clearly have no idea. If you are using a reputable accountant they would make very clear that living on business expenses is an absolute non starter. Everything has to be specifically for the business. Most these days also advise against using any part of your house for tax purposes as there has been a massive clampdown on such scams. Even your car can only be tax deductible for the bits that are actually used for business. The idea that you can live off such expenses is just fantasy - unless of course you are breaking the law and hoping to get away with it in which case more fool you.
Hmm. Class 4 NI is currently payable at 9% on earnings between £8060 and £43000 so on a band of £34940. So a 1% increase is £349.40. Against which there is the abolition of class 2, currently a fixed rate of £2.80 a week or £145.60 a year. So a tax increase of ££203.80 this year and another £349.40 next year.
Must be a big tail as this is supposed to bring in £500mn, IIRC.
Nearly three quarters of all self employed are on £15,000 or less.
2.8m (half of all those with self employed income) earn less than £7,500. 1.3m earn between £7.500 and £15,000.
There are roughly 500,000 self employed (less than 10% of the total) who earn/declare £30k or more. 95,000 are paid in excess of £100k.
Anyone who knows a bit about self employment knows what this game is. You can earn £50k self employed, claim £10k expenses, pay yourself £10k per year and put the other £30k in a tax free pension scheme. Or some variant of this arrangement. That way you would pay zero income tax and the national insurance on your £10k 'salary' would be similarly non existent. For the rest of us we would pay £15k in tax and national insurance on a salary of £50k.
I'd be amazed if anyone with a turnover of £50k a year could afford to put £30k a year into a private pension.
Speaking as someone who is self-employed, there are some advantages, eg purchasing motor vehicles through the firm, no employer's national insurance, private health insurance premiums are a deductible business expense. If you work from home, then a proportion of housing costs are deductible (but your home becomes liable for business rates). But, the advantages aren't as great as you think.
Hmm. Class 4 NI is currently payable at 9% on earnings between £8060 and £43000 so on a band of £34940. So a 1% increase is £349.40. Against which there is the abolition of class 2, currently a fixed rate of £2.80 a week or £145.60 a year. So a tax increase of ££203.80 this year and another £349.40 next year.
Must be a big tail as this is supposed to bring in £500mn, IIRC.
Nearly three quarters of all self employed are on £15,000 or less.
2.8m (half of all those with self employed income) earn less than £7,500. 1.3m earn between £7.500 and £15,000.
There are roughly 500,000 self employed (less than 10% of the total) who earn/declare £30k or more. 95,000 are paid in excess of £100k.
Anyone who knows a bit about self employment knows what this game is. You can earn £50k self employed, claim £10k expenses, pay yourself £10k per year and put the other £30k in a tax free pension scheme. Or some variant of this arrangement. That way you would pay zero income tax and the national insurance on your £10k 'salary' would be similarly non existent. For the rest of us we would pay £15k in tax and national insurance on a salary of £50k.
Yes, deductible expenses are one of the great incentives of self employment.
That said, I don't think the average tradesperson, childminder, online retailer, minicab driver or delivery person (and these are the real core of the self employed) are starting from £50k gross.
In my experience, amongst the professions contracting is getting more and more common and you would have a model pretty much like the one I have described above where no substantive tax is paid on high incomes. Self employment is just another form of tax avoidance. I'm not an accountant though, this is just my gut instinct.
Most of the self employed are not earning 50k , I agree. Most are in the JAM category. My partner has been earning £15k per year self employed. I think it would be better financially to quit this and get a minimum wage job on the tills at the supermarket, at least that way there are provisions for sick pay and eligibility for JSA in the event of redundancy.
One of the worst exploits I saw some middle class self employed in the past was to minimise their pay for 2-3 years leading to when junior was going to uni...Thus under old system claim free tuition as income below the threshold...Then get the reserves out of the company.
Hmm I think my Dad was genuinely 'between businesses' when I went to Uni.
Hmm. Class 4 NI is currently payable at 9% on earnings between £8060 and £43000 so on a band of £34940. So a 1% increase is £349.40. Against which there is the abolition of class 2, currently a fixed rate of £2.80 a week or £145.60 a year. So a tax increase of ££203.80 this year and another £349.40 next year.
Must be a big tail as this is supposed to bring in £500mn, IIRC.
Nearly three quarters of all self employed are on £15,000 or less.
2.8m (half of all those with self employed income) earn less than £7,500. 1.3m earn between £7.500 and £15,000.
There are roughly 500,000 self employed (less than 10% of the total) who earn/declare £30k or more. 95,000 are paid in excess of £100k.
Anyone who knows a bit about self employment knows what this game is. You can earn £50k self employed, claim £10k expenses, pay yourself £10k per year and put the other £30k in a tax free pension scheme. Or some variant of this arrangement. That way you would pay zero income tax and the national insurance on your £10k 'salary' would be similarly non existent. For the rest of us we would pay £15k in tax and national insurance on a salary of £50k.
Yes, deductible expenses are one of the great incentives of self employment.
That said, I don't think the average tradesperson, childminder, online retailer, minicab driver or delivery person (and these are the real core of the self employed) are starting from £50k gross.
In my experience, amongst the professions contracting is getting more and more common and you would have a model pretty much like the one I have described above where no substantive tax is paid on high incomes. Self employment is just another form of tax avoidance. I'm not an accountant though, this is just my gut instinct.
Most of the self employed are not earning 50k , I agree. Most are in the JAM category. My partner has been earning £15k per year self employed. I think it would be better financially to quit this and get a minimum wage job on the tills at the supermarket, at least that way there are provisions for sick pay and eligibility for JSA in the event of redundancy.
"S/e is just another form of tax avoidance"
Well insofar as s/e avoid certain taxes that employed people pay, yes. But we have already discussed at length the attendant risks and costs associated with s/e.
Hmm. Class 4 NI is currently payable at 9% on earnings between £8060 and £43000 so on a band of £34940. So a 1% increase is £349.40. Against which there is the abolition of class 2, currently a fixed rate of £2.80 a week or £145.60 a year. So a tax increase of ££203.80 this year and another £349.40 next year.
Must be a big tail as this is supposed to bring in £500mn, IIRC.
Nearly three quarters of all self employed are on £15,000 or less.
2.8m (half of all those with self employed income) earn less than £7,500. 1.3m earn between £7.500 and £15,000.
There are roughly 500,000 self employed (less than 10% of the total) who earn/declare £30k or more. 95,000 are paid in excess of £100k.
Anyone who knows a bit about self employment knows what this game is. You can earn £50k self employed, claim £10k expenses, pay yourself £10k per year and put the other £30k in a tax free pension scheme. Or some variant of this arrangement. That way you would pay zero income tax and the national insurance on your £10k 'salary' would be similarly non existent. For the rest of us we would pay £15k in tax and national insurance on a salary of £50k.
Yes, deductible expenses are one of the great incentives of self employment.
That said, I don't think the average tradesperson, childminder, online retailer, minicab driver or delivery person (and these are the real core of the self employed) are starting from £50k gross.
Those expenses have to be in the course of your work so how are they any different to me charging client lunches to expenses or train/air fares? True, if you work from home you can claim some heat and light and tax free computers are a big perk. But I (and many other employees) get a free laptop and iphone with my work anyway.
P.S. Saw your reply earlier. Thanks. I guess your videographer friend with the big client commissions is the one who dumped PAYE?
She still does her PAYE work on a part time basis (as an insurance) but her heart is in her own business.
Others are covering the expenses issue though I often wonder how many of the Bentleys and Range Rovers I see in my part of the world are business 'expenses'.
Cavani scores for PSG - would you believe it - now 3 -5 overall with PSG away goal
Cavani has scored in 8 of last 9 PSG games
I had my biggest ever bet on him scoring in the other one!
Did you have a bet on him tonight
It would have been an absolute jackpot if he had scored first, I only had a tiny bet anytime scorer. Had Suarez for a little bit, so didn't lose thankfully
Would be interesting to see a breakdown in terms of party support. You would think Labour voters would like higher taxes since it means more spending on services for example.
Hmm. Class 4 NI is currently payable at 9% on earnings between £8060 and £43000 so on a band of £34940. So a 1% increase is £349.40. Against which there is the abolition of class 2, currently a fixed rate of £2.80 a week or £145.60 a year. So a tax increase of ££203.80 this year and another £349.40 next year.
Must be a big tail as this is supposed to bring in £500mn, IIRC.
Nearly three quarters of all self employed are on £15,000 or less.
2.8m (half of all those with self employed income) earn less than £7,500. 1.3m earn between £7.500 and £15,000.
There are roughly 500,000 self employed (less than 10% of the total) who earn/declare £30k or more. 95,000 are paid in excess of £100k.
Anyone who knows a bit about self employment knows what this game is. You can earn £50k self employed, claim £10k expenses, pay yourself £10k per year and put the other £30k in a tax free pension scheme. Or some variant of this arrangement. That way you would pay zero income tax and the national insurance on your £10k 'salary' would be similarly non existent. For the rest of us we would pay £15k in tax and national insurance on a salary of £50k.
What do you live on?
Combination of 'business expenses' which would include for instance your car and renting your home office from yourself, and circa 1k per month tax free salary.
Well that is peanuts and wouldn't even cover my mortgage. I think you are living in a bit of a dream world to be honest.
How do you think people living on minimum wage survive? Take home pay on minimum wage is £1079 per month once tax and NI are deducted.
Cavani scores for PSG - would you believe it - now 3 -5 overall with PSG away goal
Cavani has scored in 8 of last 9 PSG games
I had my biggest ever bet on him scoring in the other one!
Did you have a bet on him tonight
It would have been an absolute jackpot if he had scored first, I only had a tiny bet anytime scorer. Had Suarez for a little bit, so didn't lose thankfully
Taxes on other people always popular...At least at first.
Most people aren't self employed and so amazingly* they are quite happy to see others pay for social care/the NHS/new nuclear weapons.
I think in the long term a lot of the differences, both in terms of costs AND benefits, between self employment and normal employment are going to have to go. That's going to require some creative thinking to say the least.
Hmm. Class 4 NI is currently payable at 9% on earnings between £8060 and £43000 so on a band of £34940. So a 1% increase is £349.40. Against which there is the abolition of class 2, currently a fixed rate of £2.80 a week or £145.60 a year. So a tax increase of ££203.80 this year and another £349.40 next year.
Must be a big tail as this is supposed to bring in £500mn, IIRC.
Nearly three quarters of all self employed are on £15,000 or less.
2.8m (half of all those with self employed income) earn less than £7,500. 1.3m earn between £7.500 and £15,000.
There are roughly 500,000 self employed (less than 10% of the total) who earn/declare £30k or more. 95,000 are paid in excess of £100k.
Anyone who knows a bit about self employment knows what this game is. You can earn £50k self employed, claim £10k expenses, pay yourself £10k per year and put the other £30k in a tax free pension scheme. Or some variant of this arrangement. That way you would pay zero income tax and the national insurance on your £10k 'salary' would be similarly non existent. For the rest of us we would pay £15k in tax and national insurance on a salary of £50k.
What do you live on?
Combination of 'business expenses' which would include for instance your car and renting your home office from yourself, and circa 1k per month tax free salary.
Well that is peanuts and wouldn't even cover my mortgage. I think you are living in a bit of a dream world to be honest.
How do you think people living on minimum wage survive? Take home pay on minimum wage is £1079 per month once tax and NI are deducted.
They barely do. That's my point. You are the person suggesting that someone with an income of £50k shovels £30k of it into a pension. I think that is completely farfetched.
Hmm. Class 4 NI is currently payable at 9% on earnings between £8060 and £43000 so on a band of £34940. So a 1% increase is £349.40. Against which there is the abolition of class 2, currently a fixed rate of £2.80 a week or £145.60 a year. So a tax increase of ££203.80 this year and another £349.40 next year.
Must be a big tail as this is supposed to bring in £500mn, IIRC.
Nearly three quarters of all self employed are on £15,000 or less.
2.8m (half of all those with self employed income) earn less than £7,500. 1.3m earn between £7.500 and £15,000.
There are roughly 500,000 self employed (less than 10% of the total) who earn/declare £30k or more. 95,000 are paid in excess of £100k.
Anyone who knows a bit about self employment knows what this game is. You can earn £50k self employed, claim £10k expenses, pay yourself £10k per year and put the other £30k in a tax free pension scheme. Or some variant of this arrangement. That way you would pay zero income tax and the national insurance on your £10k 'salary' would be similarly non existent. For the rest of us we would pay £15k in tax and national insurance on a salary of £50k.
What do you live on?
Combination of 'business expenses' which would include for instance your car and renting your home office from yourself, and circa 1k per month tax free salary.
Well that is peanuts and wouldn't even cover my mortgage. I think you are living in a bit of a dream world to be honest.
How do you think people living on minimum wage survive? Take home pay on minimum wage is £1079 per month once tax and NI are deducted.
They barely do. That's my point. You are the person suggesting that someone with an income of £50k shovels £30k of it into a pension. I think that is completely farfetched.
Comments
If you're rich enough to think losing £550 a year is a rounding error, good for you but for most people it will be a significantly hit.
Similarly, when I am sitting on my beach in the summer I am very conscious no one is paying me a penny for being there and the true cost of the holiday is the lost wages. I find it better not to think about it.
Now you have the supreme irony of Labour complaining about a tax increase in their budget response which relative to the taxes they want to increase is a mere pin prick.
Just imagine the headlines if PAYE employees were subjected to a similar tax rise.
I suspect a consequence of this rise will be more attempts to offset spurious expenses against tax. Whether HMRC has the capacity to investigate these remains to be seen.
https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/500317/self-employed-income.pdf
The pinot grigio theory for the self employed journalist looks most convincing to me so far.
2.8m (half of all those with self employed income) earn less than £7,500.
1.3m earn between £7.500 and £15,000.
There are roughly 500,000 self employed (less than 10% of the total) who earn/declare £30k or more. 95,000 are paid in excess of £100k.
The standard sick pay for the self employed is zero. And if you are sick for too long your company goes bust and you are out of work as well.
It is a reminder that we could return to politics as normal a lot quicker than expected once the wheels come off May's wagon.
https://twitter.com/europeelects/status/839572677757136896
The problem with the NICs is not so much the amounts, as the attitude and direction of travel.
If the Tories won't support enterprising people setting up on their own, who will?
And that's not good for the country's economy in the long term.
That said, I don't think the average tradesperson, childminder, online retailer, minicab driver or delivery person (and these are the real core of the self employed) are starting from £50k gross.
“Votes for Bonnets”, that’s what I say!
P.S. Saw your reply earlier. Thanks. I guess your videographer friend with the big client commissions is the one who dumped PAYE?
It has gone on for a while and on googling the problem the recommendation was to uninstall the upgrade and this seems to have fixed the problem.
Has anyone else had this problem recently
Speaking as someone who is self-employed, there are some advantages, eg purchasing motor vehicles through the firm, no employer's national insurance, private health insurance premiums are a deductible business expense. If you work from home, then a proportion of housing costs are deductible (but your home becomes liable for business rates). But, the advantages aren't as great as you think.
I think I'd rather be in though
Most of the self employed are not earning 50k , I agree. Most are in the JAM category. My partner has been earning £15k per year self employed. I think it would be better financially to quit this and get a minimum wage job on the tills at the supermarket, at least that way there are provisions for sick pay and eligibility for JSA in the event of redundancy.
I had my biggest ever bet on him scoring in the other one!
Just saw this on twitter....
https://twitter.com/oliverdarcy/status/839578848773693440
Well insofar as s/e avoid certain taxes that employed people pay, yes. But we have already discussed at length the attendant risks and costs associated with s/e.
Others are covering the expenses issue though I often wonder how many of the Bentleys and Range Rovers I see in my part of the world are business 'expenses'.
I think in the long term a lot of the differences, both in terms of costs AND benefits, between self employment and normal employment are going to have to go. That's going to require some creative thinking to say the least.
* Not at all amazingly, quite predictably really.