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  • PlatoSaid said:

    Go Girl

    Reuters
    BREAKING: French far-right leader Marine Le Pen says she cancelled a meeting with Lebanon's Grand Mufti after refusing to wear a headscarf https://t.co/hJEXKkNJnW


    She should go dressed in mufti.
  • foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548
    Goupillon said:

    Please forgive my switch back to Copeland but here are the candidates on what they would do if elected to protect NHS services in the constituency area. Who do you think you would chose as the most capable for this task if you were voting on Thursday.

    http://www.whitehavennews.co.uk/news/The-NHS-What-Copeland-MP-election-candidates-say-e80e93dd-c029-4e50-950d-5232c10fc7be-ds

    Not one willing to support the downgrading says it all.

    There are real issues in staffing low volume hospitals like Whitehaven, though the government sems strangely reluctant to use the obvious one of providing better pay and working hours in such situations. What is it that they have against market forces?
  • foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548

    PlatoSaid said:

    Go Girl

    Reuters
    BREAKING: French far-right leader Marine Le Pen says she cancelled a meeting with Lebanon's Grand Mufti after refusing to wear a headscarf https://t.co/hJEXKkNJnW


    She should go dressed in mufti.
    She should emulate our glorious Queen:

    https://twitter.com/DanielAudritt/status/554439887152513024
  • kjhkjh Posts: 11,695
    PlatoSaid said:

    And Trump wins again

    AP
    "COPENHAGEN, Denmark (AP) -- Swedish police on Tuesday were investigating a riot that broke out overnight in a predominantly immigrant suburb in Stockholm after officers arrested a suspect on drug charges.

    http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/E/EU_SWEDEN_RIOTS?SITE=AP&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT&CTIME=2017-02-21-04-33-36

    This seems to be a case of Trump predicting the future? Of course he did actually say 'last night' when he made his Sweden statement and not that there will be some event sometime in the near future in Sweden. Something we can all predict.

    Are people really so gullible? It appears so when obvious lies that aren't even necessary (size of crowd, biggest electoral college win, etc) are just water of a ducks back to many.
  • foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548
    Pulpstar said:

    Stoke :

    Labour 41%
    Tories 19%
    UKIP 18%
    Lib Dem 17%

    Copeland:
    Labour 39%
    Tories 36%
    Lib Dems 11%
    UKIP 9%


    I concur. That sounds about right to me.
  • Black_RookBlack_Rook Posts: 8,905

    Danny565 said:

    My predictions:

    Copeland
    Labour 44% +2%
    Conservatives 35% -1%
    UKIP 11% -5%
    Lib Dems 6% +2%


    Stoke on Trent
    Labour 44% +5%
    UKIP 22% -1%
    Conservatives 12% -11%
    Lib Dems 11% +7%


    I'll get ready for all the egg on my face come Thursday night.

    We all take that risk when we dare to make such predictions, and I start out with the expectation that they will be hopelessly wide of the mark. Thus disappointment is minimised.

    I had a go at forecasting Copeland back in December, and went for a Tory majority of 3,500. Humiliation beckons - but more likely for yours truly than the Labour Party, knowing my luck.
    White Knight to the rescue?
    Tories look to sacrifice two pawns for sake of position. Their queen ought still to deliver checkmate in the end.
  • tpfkar said:

    Goupillon said:

    Please forgive my switch back to Copeland but here are the candidates on what they would do if elected to protect NHS services in the constituency area. Who do you think you would chose as the most capable for this task if you were voting on Thursday.

    http://www.whitehavennews.co.uk/news/The-NHS-What-Copeland-MP-election-candidates-say-e80e93dd-c029-4e50-950d-5232c10fc7be-ds

    Really interesting exercise.
    I thought the Conservative answer was the strongest, followed by the Lib Dem. I thought that the Labour response was notably weak, given their campaign focus on it, and the candidate's experience.
    ....
    IMO all the main candidates answered pretty well, including the Kipper. Gillian Troughton (Labour) was predictably too partisan. Trudy Harrison (Conservative) was good but a bit waffly. Rebecca Hanson (Liberal Democrat) was doing very well until she followed the very reasonable-sounding "I have produced risk assessments to help change the minds of the key people who will be making decisions in Cumbria" with the bonkers-sounding "I’ve exposed the madness and inconsistency of the supposed experts who consider these changes to be safe."
  • HurstLlamaHurstLlama Posts: 9,098

    Goupillon said:

    Please forgive my switch back to Copeland but here are the candidates on what they would do if elected to protect NHS services in the constituency area. Who do you think you would chose as the most capable for this task if you were voting on Thursday.

    http://www.whitehavennews.co.uk/news/The-NHS-What-Copeland-MP-election-candidates-say-e80e93dd-c029-4e50-950d-5232c10fc7be-ds

    Not one willing to support the downgrading says it all.

    There are real issues in staffing low volume hospitals like Whitehaven, though the government sems strangely reluctant to use the obvious one of providing better pay and working hours in such situations. What is it that they have against market forces?
    Can the staff at a hospital like Whitehaven be offered more pay than for other hospitals? I didn't think they could, nation pay scales and all that. If I am correct in that then their is no use of the market that would make sense - giving everyone in the NHS a pay rise would not attract more people to the problem hospitals.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 42,205
    One for the science or space geeks:

    NASA will hold a news conference at 1 p.m. EST Wednesday, Feb. 22, to present new findings on planets that orbit stars other than our sun, known as exoplanets. The event will air live on NASA Television and the agency's website.

    Details of these findings are embargoed by the journal Nature until 1 p.m.

    https://www.nasa.gov/press-release/nasa-to-host-news-conference-on-discovery-beyond-our-solar-system

    Note: some of these announcements have, in the past, not quite lived up to their stellar hype.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,314

    Danny565 said:

    My predictions:

    Copeland
    Labour 44% +2%
    Conservatives 35% -1%
    UKIP 11% -5%
    Lib Dems 6% +2%


    Stoke on Trent
    Labour 44% +5%
    UKIP 22% -1%
    Conservatives 12% -11%
    Lib Dems 11% +7%


    I'll get ready for all the egg on my face come Thursday night.

    We all take that risk when we dare to make such predictions, and I start out with the expectation that they will be hopelessly wide of the mark. Thus disappointment is minimised.

    I had a go at forecasting Copeland back in December, and went for a Tory majority of 3,500. Humiliation beckons - but more likely for yours truly than the Labour Party, knowing my luck.
    White Knight to the rescue?
    Tories look to sacrifice two pawns for sake of position. Their queen ought still to deliver checkmate in the end.
    :D
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 77,891

    Pulpstar said:

    Stoke :

    Labour 41%
    Tories 19%
    UKIP 18%
    Lib Dem 17%

    Copeland:
    Labour 39%
    Tories 36%
    Lib Dems 11%
    UKIP 9%


    I concur. That sounds about right to me.
    In short - Copeland is a 2 horse race and I don't know who will win. The value is with labour, and I think they'll edge it.
    Stoke looks to be a one horse race to me, second place is tricky to work out though. At the prices for the straight bet laying UKIP looks to be the clear correct position.
  • There are real issues in staffing low volume hospitals like Whitehaven, though the government sems strangely reluctant to use the obvious one of providing better pay and working hours in such situations. What is it that they have against market forces?

    They don't have anything against allowing NHS trusts to pay according to local conditions. Unfortunately, the doctors' and nurses' trades unions go berserk at the very idea.
  • chestnutchestnut Posts: 7,341
    edited February 2017
    Today's borrowing figures are quite intriguing.

    Last year's deficit has been revised down to £71.6bn, while the percentage fall in YTD borrowing is 21.6%. That implies an annual deficit figure for 2016/2017 of around £55bn if the trend is maintained for two more months.

    GDP was c.£1.868bn in 2016, so the deficit may squeak in at under 3%????

    Also, within an overall deficit of £55bn, debt interest expenditure (up 5.8%) is close to £50bn.

    The growth in tax receipts is quite astonishing:

    * National Insurance Receipts up 9%;
    * Wealth and Income Taxes up 5.8%
    * Taxes on Production up 4.1%
    * Other taxes - sin taxes, oil etc - fallen marginally by 0.1%

    In terms of worries about consumer appetite to keep spending, the minimum wage is profiled for a 4.1% uplift on April 1st.

    The people most likely to spend and least able to save are seeing gross incomes (subject to maintaining total hours) rising. This is combined with a 4.5% uplift in the tax free allowance on April 1st so that disposable incomes should grow faster than inflation (again, subject to hours worked).

    EDIT:

    Feb-March 2015: £11.868bn borrowed
    Feb-March 2016: £ 8.712bn borrowed
  • Danny565Danny565 Posts: 8,091
    edited February 2017
    Pulpstar said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Stoke :

    Labour 41%
    Tories 19%
    UKIP 18%
    Lib Dem 17%

    Copeland:
    Labour 39%
    Tories 36%
    Lib Dems 11%
    UKIP 9%


    I concur. That sounds about right to me.
    In short - Copeland is a 2 horse race and I don't know who will win. The value is with labour, and I think they'll edge it.
    Stoke looks to be a one horse race to me, second place is tricky to work out though. At the prices for the straight bet laying UKIP looks to be the clear correct position.
    I still think UKIP are favourites for 2nd in Stoke. Firstly, their vote has been pretty resilient in all parliamentary byelections since 2015, except for Witney. And I think May's visit might have come too late to deter ALL the Tory voters who were going to tactically go UKIP.

    Dr Nuttall's escapades have probably put off many potential Lab->UKIP switchers (if they were ever tempted in the first place), but I'd think the UKIP hardcore vote will be tuning this stuff out. Maybe even discounting it all as a "media smear campaign".
  • The betting market in Stoke Central, as @isam has repeatedly noted, has proved exceptionally volatile. All four of the main contenders have their advocates and both the Conservatives and the Lib Dems have been traded in single figures and three figures at different times.

    I'm still kind of expecting the order to be Labour, UKIP, Conservatives, Lib Dems (and Labour having a clear margin of victory). But it's very murky and I can imagine that being quite wrong in a few different ways.
  • PlatoSaid said:

    Go Girl

    Reuters
    BREAKING: French far-right leader Marine Le Pen says she cancelled a meeting with Lebanon's Grand Mufti after refusing to wear a headscarf https://t.co/hJEXKkNJnW


    She should go dressed in mufti.
    She should emulate our glorious Queen:

    https://twitter.com/DanielAudritt/status/554439887152513024
    What will Trump say when he meets her on his state visit?
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 37,141
    chestnut said:

    Today's borrowing figures are quite intriguing.

    Last year's deficit has been revised down to £71.6bn, while the percentage fall in YTD borrowing is 21.6%. That implies an annual deficit figure for 2016/2017 of around £55bn if the trend is maintained for two more months.

    GDP was c.£1.868bn in 2016, so the deficit may squeak in at under 3%????

    Also, within an overall deficit of £55bn, debt interest expenditure (up 5.8%) is close to £50bn.

    The growth in tax receipts is quite astonishing:

    * National Insurance Receipts up 9%;
    * Wealth and Income Taxes up 5.8%
    * Taxes on Production up 4.1%
    * Other taxes - sin taxes, oil etc - fallen marginally by 0.1%

    In terms of worries about consumer appetite to keep spending, the minimum wage is profiled for a 4.1% uplift on April 1st.

    The people most likely to spend and least able to save are seeing gross incomes (subject to maintaining total hours) rising. This is combined with a 4.5% uplift in the tax free allowance on April 1st so that disposable incomes should grow faster than inflation (again, subject to hours worked).

    EDIT:

    Feb-March 2015: £11.868bn borrowed
    Feb-March 2016: £ 8.712bn borrowed

    Those are very good numbers. It looks as though we are now close to achieving a primary budget surplus for the first time in ages.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 81,455
    edited February 2017
    chestnut said:

    Today's borrowing figures are quite intriguing.

    Last year's deficit has been revised down to £71.6bn, while the percentage fall in YTD borrowing is 21.6%. That implies an annual deficit figure of around £55bn if the trend is maintained for two more months.

    GDP was c.£1.868bn in 2016, so the deficit may squeak in at under 3%????

    Also, within an overall deficit of £55bn, debt interest expenditure (up 5.8%) is close to £50bn.

    The growth in tax receipts is quite astonishing:

    * National Insurance Receipts up 9%;
    * Wealth and Income Taxes up 5.8%
    * Taxes on Production up 4.1%
    * Other taxes - sin taxes, oil etc - fallen marginally by 0.1%

    In terms of worries about consumer appetite to keep spending, the minimum wage is profiled for a 4.1% uplift on April 1st.

    The people most likely to spend and least able to save are seeing gross incomes (subject to maintaining total hours) rising. This is combined with a 4.5% uplift in the tax free allowance on April 1st so that disposable incomes should grow faster than inflation (again, subject to hours worked).


    There was an interesting piece hidden away on BBC website yesterday which bust their own conspiracy theory about the surprise in unemployment numbers / rise in self employment. The conspiracy has been with the rise of "gig" type jobs and alike has been behind the large rise in self employment and thus was overwhelmingly just a load of piss poor paid jobs and loads of people being "under-employed".

    The research by lefty Resolution foundation actually found analysis of the self employment numbers shows that isn't true and that the majority of those new self employed "jobs" are very well paid.

    I would hazard a guess that lots of professionals has decided (or pushed by a change in situation) that they can do what they do as an individual and not via a bigger company, now with the interwebs etc.
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 37,141

    The betting market in Stoke Central, as @isam has repeatedly noted, has proved exceptionally volatile. All four of the main contenders have their advocates and both the Conservatives and the Lib Dems have been traded in single figures and three figures at different times.

    I'm still kind of expecting the order to be Labour, UKIP, Conservatives, Lib Dems (and Labour having a clear margin of victory). But it's very murky and I can imagine that being quite wrong in a few different ways.

    I put a small bet on Labour but the odds aren't terribly attractive (1/2). Copeland is definitely the value bet.
  • chestnutchestnut Posts: 7,341
    edited February 2017
    Sean_F said:

    chestnut said:

    Today's borrowing figures are quite intriguing.

    Last year's deficit has been revised down to £71.6bn, while the percentage fall in YTD borrowing is 21.6%. That implies an annual deficit figure for 2016/2017 of around £55bn if the trend is maintained for two more months.

    GDP was c.£1.868bn in 2016, so the deficit may squeak in at under 3%????

    Also, within an overall deficit of £55bn, debt interest expenditure (up 5.8%) is close to £50bn.

    The growth in tax receipts is quite astonishing:

    * National Insurance Receipts up 9%;
    * Wealth and Income Taxes up 5.8%
    * Taxes on Production up 4.1%
    * Other taxes - sin taxes, oil etc - fallen marginally by 0.1%

    In terms of worries about consumer appetite to keep spending, the minimum wage is profiled for a 4.1% uplift on April 1st.

    The people most likely to spend and least able to save are seeing gross incomes (subject to maintaining total hours) rising. This is combined with a 4.5% uplift in the tax free allowance on April 1st so that disposable incomes should grow faster than inflation (again, subject to hours worked).

    EDIT:

    Feb-March 2015: £11.868bn borrowed
    Feb-March 2016: £ 8.712bn borrowed

    Those are very good numbers. It looks as though we are now close to achieving a primary budget surplus for the first time in ages.
    Of additional interest, possibly - from Osborne and the OBR back in March:

    "But borrowing forecasts revised up to £55.5bn (+£5.6bn), £38.8bn (+£14bn) and £21.4bn (+16.8bn) in 2016-7, 2017-8 and 2018-9 respectively

    The deficit as a share of GDP is projected to fall to 2.9% in 2016-17, 1.9% in 2017-18 and 1% in 2018-19"


    It looks like the government will come in on the button with Osborne's forecast in spite of all the supposed upheaval.
  • chestnutchestnut Posts: 7,341

    chestnut said:

    Today's borrowing figures are quite intriguing.

    Last year's deficit has been revised down to £71.6bn, while the percentage fall in YTD borrowing is 21.6%. That implies an annual deficit figure of around £55bn if the trend is maintained for two more months.

    GDP was c.£1.868bn in 2016, so the deficit may squeak in at under 3%????

    Also, within an overall deficit of £55bn, debt interest expenditure (up 5.8%) is close to £50bn.

    The growth in tax receipts is quite astonishing:

    * National Insurance Receipts up 9%;
    * Wealth and Income Taxes up 5.8%
    * Taxes on Production up 4.1%
    * Other taxes - sin taxes, oil etc - fallen marginally by 0.1%

    In terms of worries about consumer appetite to keep spending, the minimum wage is profiled for a 4.1% uplift on April 1st.

    The people most likely to spend and least able to save are seeing gross incomes (subject to maintaining total hours) rising. This is combined with a 4.5% uplift in the tax free allowance on April 1st so that disposable incomes should grow faster than inflation (again, subject to hours worked).


    There was an interesting piece hidden away on BBC website yesterday which bust their own conspiracy theory about the surprise in unemployment numbers / rise in self employment. The conspiracy has been with the rise of "gig" type jobs and alike has been behind the large rise in self employment and thus was overwhelmingly just a load of piss poor paid jobs and loads of people being "under-employed".

    The research by lefty Resolution foundation actually found analysis of the self employment numbers shows that isn't true and that the majority of those new self employed "jobs" are very well paid.

    I would hazard a guess that lots of professionals has decided (or pushed by a change in situation) that they can do what they do as an individual and not via a bigger company, now with the interwebs etc.
    Yes, I saw that piece.

    The majority are consultancies and professional services. Many were 40+% tax bracket.
  • Sean_F said:

    chestnut said:

    Today's borrowing figures are quite intriguing.

    Last year's deficit has been revised down to £71.6bn, while the percentage fall in YTD borrowing is 21.6%. That implies an annual deficit figure for 2016/2017 of around £55bn if the trend is maintained for two more months.

    GDP was c.£1.868bn in 2016, so the deficit may squeak in at under 3%????

    Also, within an overall deficit of £55bn, debt interest expenditure (up 5.8%) is close to £50bn.

    The growth in tax receipts is quite astonishing:

    * National Insurance Receipts up 9%;
    * Wealth and Income Taxes up 5.8%
    * Taxes on Production up 4.1%
    * Other taxes - sin taxes, oil etc - fallen marginally by 0.1%

    In terms of worries about consumer appetite to keep spending, the minimum wage is profiled for a 4.1% uplift on April 1st.

    The people most likely to spend and least able to save are seeing gross incomes (subject to maintaining total hours) rising. This is combined with a 4.5% uplift in the tax free allowance on April 1st so that disposable incomes should grow faster than inflation (again, subject to hours worked).

    EDIT:

    Feb-March 2015: £11.868bn borrowed
    Feb-March 2016: £ 8.712bn borrowed

    Those are very good numbers. It looks as though we are now close to achieving a primary budget surplus for the first time in ages.
    Just in time to blow it all after Brexit
  • First Trump, then Salmond, now Corbyn:

    Jeremy Corbyn has blamed the media for Labour's consistently bad opinion poll ratings. The Labour leader said his party was more successful at getting its message across on social media sites instead.

    https://www.politicshome.com/news/uk/political-parties/labour-party/jeremy-corbyn/news/83493/jeremy-corbyn-media-blame-labour
  • chestnut said:

    chestnut said:

    Today's borrowing figures are quite intriguing.

    Last year's deficit has been revised down to £71.6bn, while the percentage fall in YTD borrowing is 21.6%. That implies an annual deficit figure of around £55bn if the trend is maintained for two more months.

    GDP was c.£1.868bn in 2016, so the deficit may squeak in at under 3%????

    Also, within an overall deficit of £55bn, debt interest expenditure (up 5.8%) is close to £50bn.

    The growth in tax receipts is quite astonishing:

    * National Insurance Receipts up 9%;
    * Wealth and Income Taxes up 5.8%
    * Taxes on Production up 4.1%
    * Other taxes - sin taxes, oil etc - fallen marginally by 0.1%

    In terms of worries about consumer appetite to keep spending, the minimum wage is profiled for a 4.1% uplift on April 1st.

    The people most likely to spend and least able to save are seeing gross incomes (subject to maintaining total hours) rising. This is combined with a 4.5% uplift in the tax free allowance on April 1st so that disposable incomes should grow faster than inflation (again, subject to hours worked).


    There was an interesting piece hidden away on BBC website yesterday which bust their own conspiracy theory about the surprise in unemployment numbers / rise in self employment. The conspiracy has been with the rise of "gig" type jobs and alike has been behind the large rise in self employment and thus was overwhelmingly just a load of piss poor paid jobs and loads of people being "under-employed".

    The research by lefty Resolution foundation actually found analysis of the self employment numbers shows that isn't true and that the majority of those new self employed "jobs" are very well paid.

    I would hazard a guess that lots of professionals has decided (or pushed by a change in situation) that they can do what they do as an individual and not via a bigger company, now with the interwebs etc.
    Yes, I saw that piece.

    The majority are consultancies and professional services. Many were 40+% tax bracket.
    Taps mic....sniff sniff...Failing Fake News BBC....
  • DanSmithDanSmith Posts: 1,215
    PlatoSaid said:
    Wait what everyone was gloating the other week about how well the NYT was doing.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,314

    Goupillon said:

    Please forgive my switch back to Copeland but here are the candidates on what they would do if elected to protect NHS services in the constituency area. Who do you think you would chose as the most capable for this task if you were voting on Thursday.

    http://www.whitehavennews.co.uk/news/The-NHS-What-Copeland-MP-election-candidates-say-e80e93dd-c029-4e50-950d-5232c10fc7be-ds

    Not one willing to support the downgrading says it all.

    There are real issues in staffing low volume hospitals like Whitehaven, though the government sems strangely reluctant to use the obvious one of providing better pay and working hours in such situations. What is it that they have against market forces?
    Given the clinical benefits of having a smaller number of more specialist centres, could it be that part of the solution might be the provision of an extra air ambulance in more rural areas? Whitehaven to Carlisle or Lancaster would only be 15 minutes in a helicopter, and there's no shortage of places to land in such a rural area.
  • foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548

    There are real issues in staffing low volume hospitals like Whitehaven, though the government sems strangely reluctant to use the obvious one of providing better pay and working hours in such situations. What is it that they have against market forces?

    They don't have anything against allowing NHS trusts to pay according to local conditions. Unfortunately, the doctors' and nurses' trades unions go berserk at the very idea.
    There are a number of simple ways to do this within existing rules.

    1) start people at higher points on the scale.
    2) generous allowances in both money and time to enhance skills in bigger units.
    3) relocation allowances
    4) Putting more money into CEA award pots.
    5) writing rotas that allow decent time off for family duties such as annualised PA's

    Of course Brexit will benefit the workers by reducing the numbers of migrants undercutting natives wages, pushing up wage rates. I am told that is the whole point.
  • Scott_P said:
    At moments like this, I am glad I work from my home office most of the time. Seeing that blow up on my 34" monitor is one thing, seeing it blow up a 34" monitor in the middle of an open plan office would have been quite another.
  • Scott_P said:

    ttps://twitter.com/petermannionmp/status/834052974079045633

    It's raised $55,000 of its $38,000 goal......
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 77,891
    Sandpit said:

    Goupillon said:

    Please forgive my switch back to Copeland but here are the candidates on what they would do if elected to protect NHS services in the constituency area. Who do you think you would chose as the most capable for this task if you were voting on Thursday.

    http://www.whitehavennews.co.uk/news/The-NHS-What-Copeland-MP-election-candidates-say-e80e93dd-c029-4e50-950d-5232c10fc7be-ds

    Not one willing to support the downgrading says it all.

    There are real issues in staffing low volume hospitals like Whitehaven, though the government sems strangely reluctant to use the obvious one of providing better pay and working hours in such situations. What is it that they have against market forces?
    Given the clinical benefits of having a smaller number of more specialist centres, could it be that part of the solution might be the provision of an extra air ambulance in more rural areas? Whitehaven to Carlisle or Lancaster would only be 15 minutes in a helicopter, and there's no shortage of places to land in such a rural area.
    Could sort A&E. Less so maternity..
  • PlatoSaidPlatoSaid Posts: 10,383
    edited February 2017
    Trump pick McMaster

    https://youtu.be/LcESByl9rpc
  • chestnutchestnut Posts: 7,341
    edited February 2017
    Further on sustaining consumer appetite for spending from the BBC budget-at-a-glance summary from last March:

    "The threshold at which people pay 40% income tax will rise from £42,385 now to £45,000 in April 2017. Will only apply to Scotland if adopted by Scottish government"
  • isamisam Posts: 41,118

    Scott_P said:
    At moments like this, I am glad I work from my home office most of the time. Seeing that blow up on my 34" monitor is one thing, seeing it blow up a 34" monitor in the middle of an open plan office would have been quite another.
    Hours of fun

    http://trumpdonald.org/
  • midwintermidwinter Posts: 1,112
    Danny565 said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Stoke :

    Labour 41%
    Tories 19%
    UKIP 18%
    Lib Dem 17%

    Copeland:
    Labour 39%
    Tories 36%
    Lib Dems 11%
    UKIP 9%


    I concur. That sounds about right to me.
    In short - Copeland is a 2 horse race and I don't know who will win. The value is with labour, and I think they'll edge it.
    Stoke looks to be a one horse race to me, second place is tricky to work out though. At the prices for the straight bet laying UKIP looks to be the clear correct position.
    I still think UKIP are favourites for 2nd in Stoke. Firstly, their vote has been pretty resilient in all parliamentary byelections since 2015, except for Witney. And I think May's visit might have come too late to deter ALL the Tory voters who were going to tactically go UKIP.

    Dr Nuttall's escapades have probably put off many potential Lab->UKIP switchers (if they were ever tempted in the first place), but I'd think the UKIP hardcore vote will be tuning this stuff out. Maybe even discounting it all as a "media smear campaign".
    I'd imagine most most Tory to UKIP switchers would have headed that way in 2015 and plenty wouldn't vote for UKIP ever anyway. Any that were considering it must have been put off by Nuttall. Which may all help fracture the anti -Labour vote. The unknown I suppose is how damaging the Labour candidate and Corbyn are ..which could bring the Lib Dems into the equation yet.
  • Oooh errr

    Jean-Claude Juncker says the UK must pay "une facture très salée" for Brexit.
  • Even someone who tactically voted for the Kippers in 2015.
    I find they way Nutall has carried on downright bizarre.
    It really is amateur hour.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,314
    PlatoSaid said:

    Trump pick McMaster
    hps://youtu.be/LcESByl9rpc

    He looks and sounds very good.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 77,891

    Oooh errr

    Jean-Claude Juncker says the UK must pay "une facture très salée" for Brexit.

    Does he want some mayonnaise with his chips too ?
  • Oooh errr

    Jean-Claude Juncker says the UK must pay "une facture très salée" for Brexit.

    If there's one person that really needs to wake up with a dead horse's head in the bed next to him.

  • weejonnieweejonnie Posts: 3,820

    First Trump, then Salmond, now Corbyn:

    Jeremy Corbyn has blamed the media for Labour's consistently bad opinion poll ratings. The Labour leader said his party was more successful at getting its message across on social media sites instead.

    https://www.politicshome.com/news/uk/political-parties/labour-party/jeremy-corbyn/news/83493/jeremy-corbyn-media-blame-labour

    Mainly because Twitter/ Facebook are playthings of the left and are actively censoring sensible views.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 81,455
    edited February 2017

    Oooh errr

    Jean-Claude Juncker says the UK must pay "une facture très salée" for Brexit.

    I presume by large bill he is talking about paying for his bar tab?
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,357

    Oooh errr

    Jean-Claude Juncker says the UK must pay "une facture très salée" for Brexit.

    He needs a very hefty slap....
  • Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 30,821
    edited February 2017

    Oooh errr

    Jean-Claude Juncker says the UK must pay "une facture très salée" for Brexit.

    Lord only knows why the EU is obsessing about the facture. It's almost completely irrelevant to the matter in hand. What are they going to do if we say "pas un sou"', throw us out? And how on earth can we discuss any contributions if we don't know under what deal we'd be contributing?

    Either they are being very silly, or they are bluffing. I rather fear it's the former, which doesn't bode well for the negotiations.
  • DixieDixie Posts: 1,221
    It's a bizarre world. I stood next to John Bercow for an hour last night at the Footie and today I stood next to Jamie Rednapp and Freddie Flintoff for an hour at a funeral.
  • weejonnieweejonnie Posts: 3,820

    PlatoSaid said:

    Go Girl

    Reuters
    BREAKING: French far-right leader Marine Le Pen says she cancelled a meeting with Lebanon's Grand Mufti after refusing to wear a headscarf https://t.co/hJEXKkNJnW


    She should go dressed in mufti.
    She should emulate our glorious Queen:

    https://twitter.com/DanielAudritt/status/554439887152513024
    What will Trump say when he meets her on his state visit?
    That this tweet is a bigly load of bull - FFS u can c HM neck
  • justin124justin124 Posts: 11,527
    Turnout at the Darlington by election in March 1983 was 82% - higher than at the 1979 & 1983 General Elections! Why will turnout be so much lower at both of this week's by elections?
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    Question. Are the Brexiteers proposing we renege on treaty obligations more or less insane than the Zoomers who want iScotland to renege on debt?
  • TomsToms Posts: 2,478
    edited February 2017
    Scott_P said:
    Mass produced, that'll make a fortune I expect.

    I've been thinking a bit about Trump.
    He's a master player of alternative truth in our age of global dissemination.
    But it would be great for someone or group to start a "Trump watch" web site listing his wrong and/or inconsistent statements.

    There is such a one for alternative medicine called "Quack watch".

    There is another site (I found it through the formidable Ben Goldacre's page) that lists many/most of articles in the Mail that juggle between cancer causing/curing foods, usually not in the same issue though.

    The "Trump Watch" site would be busy and informative. Of course Trump-o-philes wouldn't care less.
  • RobCRobC Posts: 398
    Ukip set for another "setback" at Stoke as they're incapable of organising a piss-up in a brewery. Their odious doppelganger in the White House does little for their cause either.
  • theakestheakes Posts: 928
    Am local, my feeling Labour comfortable, Cons or Lib Dem second/fourth either way, UKIP poor third.
    PS Bully for Jean-Claude, we get what wee deserve after the mistake we made at the Referendum. There is always a price to pay for recklessness..
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 37,141
    theakes said:

    Am local, my feeling Labour comfortable, Cons or Lib Dem second/fourth either way, UKIP poor third.
    PS Bully for Jean-Claude, we get what wee deserve after the mistake we made at the Referendum. There is always a price to pay for recklessness..

    Who cares what that drunken buffoon says?

  • theakes said:

    Am local, my feeling Labour comfortable, Cons or Lib Dem second/fourth either way, UKIP poor third.
    PS Bully for Jean-Claude, we get what wee deserve after the mistake we made at the Referendum. There is always a price to pay for recklessness..

    Copeland or Stoke ?
  • TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633
    Scott_P said:

    Question. Are the Brexiteers proposing we renege on treaty obligations more or less insane than the Zoomers who want iScotland to renege on debt?

    If we don't pony up for Mandy's pension will the EU repossess him ?
  • PlatoSaidPlatoSaid Posts: 10,383

    Even someone who tactically voted for the Kippers in 2015.
    I find they way Nutall has carried on downright bizarre.
    It really is amateur hour.

    He's no idea - what a pity. Nigel is a giant amongst pygmies
  • chestnutchestnut Posts: 7,341
    edited February 2017

    Oooh errr

    Jean-Claude Juncker says the UK must pay "une facture très salée" for Brexit.

    Lord only knows why the EU is obsessing about the facture. It's almost completely irrelevant to the matter in hand. What are they going to do if we say "pas un sou"', throw us out? And how on earth can we discuss any contributions if we don't know under what deal we'd be contributing?

    Either they are being very silly, or they are bluffing. I rather fear it's the former, which doesn't bode well for the negotiations.
    They are hoping we solve their inevitable, internal squabble.

    Who foots the bill when the Brits leave? Who makes up the shortfall for all the farmers? And so on.

  • weejonnieweejonnie Posts: 3,820
    Scott_P said:

    Question. Are the Brexiteers proposing we renege on treaty obligations more or less insane than the Zoomers who want iScotland to renege on debt?

    No - but there are no treaties that say that any country that wants to leave the EU must pay €x billion for the privilege. If the Brexit treaty agrees a net UK liability then the UK will no doubt pay it - after all with £10 billion a year savings it won't be much of a problem raising the money.
  • DecrepitJohnLDecrepitJohnL Posts: 13,300
    edited February 2017
    weejonnie said:

    First Trump, then Salmond, now Corbyn:

    Jeremy Corbyn has blamed the media for Labour's consistently bad opinion poll ratings. The Labour leader said his party was more successful at getting its message across on social media sites instead.

    https://www.politicshome.com/news/uk/political-parties/labour-party/jeremy-corbyn/news/83493/jeremy-corbyn-media-blame-labour

    Mainly because Twitter/ Facebook are playthings of the left and are actively censoring sensible views.
    Some of us pb coffin-dodgers can remember a time when David Cameron roamed the Earth and Conservative election success was credited to the party's mastery of social media.
  • RogerRoger Posts: 19,851
    edited February 2017
    Sean_F said:

    chestnut said:

    Today's borrowing figures are quite intriguing.

    Last year's deficit has been revised down to £71.6bn, while the percentage fall in YTD borrowing is 21.6%. That implies an annual deficit figure for 2016/2017 of around £55bn if the trend is maintained for two more months.

    GDP was c.£1.868bn in 2016, so the deficit may squeak in at under 3%????

    Also, within an overall deficit of £55bn, debt interest expenditure (up 5.8%) is close to £50bn.

    The growth in tax receipts is quite astonishing:

    * National Insurance Receipts up 9%;
    * Wealth and Income Taxes up 5.8%
    * Taxes on Production up 4.1%
    * Other taxes - sin taxes, oil etc - fallen marginally by 0.1%

    In terms of worries about consumer appetite to keep spending, the minimum wage is profiled for a 4.1% uplift on April 1st.

    The people most likely to spend and least able to save are seeing gross incomes (subject to maintaining total hours) rising. This is combined with a 4.5% uplift in the tax free allowance on April 1st so that disposable incomes should grow faster than inflation (again, subject to hours worked).

    EDIT:

    Feb-March 2015: £11.868bn borrowed
    Feb-March 2016: £ 8.712bn borrowed

    Those are very good numbers. It looks as though we are now close to achieving a primary budget surplus for the first time in ages.
    Surely thos tax /national Ins receipts reflect what was happening at least a year ago when Brexit wasn't even an apple in Farage's eye?
  • TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633

    One for the science or space geeks:

    NASA will hold a news conference at 1 p.m. EST Wednesday, Feb. 22, to present new findings on planets that orbit stars other than our sun, known as exoplanets. The event will air live on NASA Television and the agency's website.

    Details of these findings are embargoed by the journal Nature until 1 p.m.

    https://www.nasa.gov/press-release/nasa-to-host-news-conference-on-discovery-beyond-our-solar-system

    Note: some of these announcements have, in the past, not quite lived up to their stellar hype.

    Glad to see NASA under Trump focussing on space and not climate change bollocks.
  • PlatoSaidPlatoSaid Posts: 10,383
    weejonnie said:
    Someone will blame Trump for this.
  • chestnut said:

    Oooh errr

    Jean-Claude Juncker says the UK must pay "une facture très salée" for Brexit.

    Lord only knows why the EU is obsessing about the facture. It's almost completely irrelevant to the matter in hand. What are they going to do if we say "pas un sou"', throw us out? And how on earth can we discuss any contributions if we don't know under what deal we'd be contributing?

    Either they are being very silly, or they are bluffing. I rather fear it's the former, which doesn't bode well for the negotiations.
    They are hoping we solve their inevitable, internal squabble.

    Who foots the bill when the Brits leave? Who makes up the shortfall for all the farmers? And so on.

    Yes, well that comes under the heading 'very silly'.
  • Danny565 said:

    My predictions:

    Copeland
    Labour 44% +2%
    Conservatives 35% -1%
    UKIP 11% -5%
    Lib Dems 6% +2%


    Stoke on Trent
    Labour 44% +5%
    UKIP 22% -1%
    Conservatives 12% -11%
    Lib Dems 11% +7%


    I'll get ready for all the egg on my face come Thursday night.

    We all take that risk when we dare to make such predictions, and I start out with the expectation that they will be hopelessly wide of the mark. Thus disappointment is minimised.

    I had a go at forecasting Copeland back in December, and went for a Tory majority of 3,500. Humiliation beckons - but more likely for yours truly than the Labour Party, knowing my luck.
    White Knight to the rescue?
    Tories look to sacrifice two pawns for sake of position. Their queen ought still to deliver checkmate in the end.
    It's not even a Con pawn sacrifice; it's failing to accept a Red pawn sacrifice which might lead to the loss of a piece down the line (though Con still a queen and a knight up).
  • PlatoSaid said:

    Even someone who tactically voted for the Kippers in 2015.
    I find they way Nutall has carried on downright bizarre.
    It really is amateur hour.

    He's no idea - what a pity. Nigel is a giant amongst pygmies
    Yes, who can forget Nigel's by-election successes?
  • Ishmael_ZIshmael_Z Posts: 8,981
    Pulpstar said:

    Sandpit said:

    Goupillon said:

    Please forgive my switch back to Copeland but here are the candidates on what they would do if elected to protect NHS services in the constituency area. Who do you think you would chose as the most capable for this task if you were voting on Thursday.

    http://www.whitehavennews.co.uk/news/The-NHS-What-Copeland-MP-election-candidates-say-e80e93dd-c029-4e50-950d-5232c10fc7be-ds

    Not one willing to support the downgrading says it all.

    There are real issues in staffing low volume hospitals like Whitehaven, though the government sems strangely reluctant to use the obvious one of providing better pay and working hours in such situations. What is it that they have against market forces?
    Given the clinical benefits of having a smaller number of more specialist centres, could it be that part of the solution might be the provision of an extra air ambulance in more rural areas? Whitehaven to Carlisle or Lancaster would only be 15 minutes in a helicopter, and there's no shortage of places to land in such a rural area.
    Could sort A&E. Less so maternity..
    Can pregnant women not travel by helicopter?

    There's a small local hospital 4 miles from me. Its good points: there is never a queue for A&E, and the staff are always bored stiff and delighted to see a patient. The trouble is, there are only a very few cases they are prepared to treat themselves, rather than send you off to A&E at the proper hospital in Plymouth, which has X rays and stuff. It is still worth going to them first, but only on a system-gaming basis, because they send you off with a letter saying Dear Derriford A&E please look at this patient, there might be something wrong with him, and that letter magics you to the front of the A&E queue at Derriford. But that isn't enough to justify their continued existence.
  • weejonnie said:

    First Trump, then Salmond, now Corbyn:

    Jeremy Corbyn has blamed the media for Labour's consistently bad opinion poll ratings. The Labour leader said his party was more successful at getting its message across on social media sites instead.

    https://www.politicshome.com/news/uk/political-parties/labour-party/jeremy-corbyn/news/83493/jeremy-corbyn-media-blame-labour

    Mainly because Twitter/ Facebook are playthings of the left and are actively censoring sensible views.
    Some of us pb coffin-dodgers can remember a time when David Cameron roamed the Earth and Conservative election success was credited to the party's mastery of social media.
    The 2015 Tory campaigning was won via social media, particularly Facebook and Youtube.

    Although Sir Lynton Crosby does say he had excellent tools to work with, name David Cameron in general, and George Osborne's magnificent stewardship of the economy.
  • Toms said:

    Scott_P said:
    Mass produced, that'll make a fortune I expect.

    I've been thinking a bit about Trump.
    He's a master player of alternative truth in our age of global dissemination.
    But it would be great for someone or group to start a "Trump watch" web site listing his wrong and/or inconsistent statements.

    There is such a one for alternative medicine called "Quack watch".

    There is another site (I found it through the formidable Ben Goldacre's page) that lists many/most of articles in the Mail that juggle between cancer causing/curing foods, usually not in the same issue though.

    The "Trump Watch" site would be busy and informative. Of course Trump-o-philes wouldn't care less.

    Ben Goldacre is impeccable on medicine cures and the need for them to be correctly assessed usingh scientific method.

    See him at
    http://www.badscience.net/
  • weejonnieweejonnie Posts: 3,820

    weejonnie said:

    First Trump, then Salmond, now Corbyn:

    Jeremy Corbyn has blamed the media for Labour's consistently bad opinion poll ratings. The Labour leader said his party was more successful at getting its message across on social media sites instead.

    https://www.politicshome.com/news/uk/political-parties/labour-party/jeremy-corbyn/news/83493/jeremy-corbyn-media-blame-labour

    Mainly because Twitter/ Facebook are playthings of the left and are actively censoring sensible views.
    Some of us pb coffin-dodgers can remember a time when David Cameron roamed the Earth and Conservative election success was credited to the party's mastery of social media.
    That was then - Trump's victory in the USA has stirred a hornet's nest in the lat-left camp. As I have said before, social media is killing the left - it is providing positive feedback whereby all their more ludicrous ideas gain sufficient traction to become mainstream. Labour support is nosediving and the Democrats currently are wandering witless in the wilderness of USA politics.
  • Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 30,821
    edited February 2017
    15.22 Turnout in the two byelections on Thursday could be hit by Storm Doris which is forecast to bring heavy rain and gale force winds on Thursday. Both Copeland and Stoke-on-Trent Central fall within a band where the Met Office has issued an amber warning for heavy rain and 80mph winds.

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/blog/live/2017/feb/21/paul-nuttall-takes-party-in-stoke-byelection-hustings-after-ukip-resignations-politics-live
  • Top Momentum chap:

    "The democratic road to socialism is not the same as the parliamentary road.”

    https://order-order.com/
  • PlatoSaidPlatoSaid Posts: 10,383

    PlatoSaid said:

    Even someone who tactically voted for the Kippers in 2015.
    I find they way Nutall has carried on downright bizarre.
    It really is amateur hour.

    He's no idea - what a pity. Nigel is a giant amongst pygmies
    Yes, who can forget Nigel's by-election successes?
    It's so sad to see such sneering - he's achieved something incredible, helped change the entire future of our country, and now mates with POTUS.

    i wish I'd failed that much.
  • TomsToms Posts: 2,478
    edited February 2017

    Toms said:

    Scott_P said:
    Mass produced, that'll make a fortune I expect.

    I've been thinking a bit about Trump.
    He's a master player of alternative truth in our age of global dissemination.
    But it would be great for someone or group to start a "Trump watch" web site listing his wrong and/or inconsistent statements.

    There is such a one for alternative medicine called "Quack watch".

    There is another site (I found it through the formidable Ben Goldacre's page) that lists many/most of articles in the Mail that juggle between cancer causing/curing foods, usually not in the same issue though.

    The "Trump Watch" site would be busy and informative. Of course Trump-o-philes wouldn't care less.

    Ben Goldacre is impeccable on medicine cures and the need for them to be correctly assessed usingh scientific method.

    See him at
    http://www.badscience.net/
    I'll risk excessive praise and say that he's a gem. If only numeracy and logical science were the norm in medicine.

    In which context rest in peace Peter Mansfield.
  • FensterFenster Posts: 2,115

    Oooh errr

    Jean-Claude Juncker says the UK must pay "une facture très salée" for Brexit.

    We should have referendum on it. It is a lot of money.

    People of Britain, do you think the UK should pay the EU £60 billion to pay for Jean Claude Juncker's pension fund?

    Yes -
    No -

    That isn't even a leading question. The EU would love it.
  • PongPong Posts: 4,693

    15.22 Turnout in the two byelections on Thursday could be hit by Storm Doris which is forecast to bring heavy rain and gale force winds on Thursday. Both Copeland and Stoke-on-Trent Central fall within a band where the Met Office has issued an amber warning for heavy rain and 80mph winds.

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/blog/live/2017/feb/21/paul-nuttall-takes-party-in-stoke-byelection-hustings-after-ukip-resignations-politics-live

    Storm Doris?

    Who names these things?
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 37,141
    weejonnie said:

    weejonnie said:

    First Trump, then Salmond, now Corbyn:

    Jeremy Corbyn has blamed the media for Labour's consistently bad opinion poll ratings. The Labour leader said his party was more successful at getting its message across on social media sites instead.

    https://www.politicshome.com/news/uk/political-parties/labour-party/jeremy-corbyn/news/83493/jeremy-corbyn-media-blame-labour

    Mainly because Twitter/ Facebook are playthings of the left and are actively censoring sensible views.
    Some of us pb coffin-dodgers can remember a time when David Cameron roamed the Earth and Conservative election success was credited to the party's mastery of social media.
    That was then - Trump's victory in the USA has stirred a hornet's nest in the lat-left camp. As I have said before, social media is killing the left - it is providing positive feedback whereby all their more ludicrous ideas gain sufficient traction to become mainstream. Labour support is nosediving and the Democrats currently are wandering witless in the wilderness of USA politics.
    I think that a bigger problem for a good part of the Left is that they've forgotten how to argue their case.
  • PlatoSaid said:

    ... and now mates with POTUS...

    Whoa, steady girl!
  • Dixie said:

    It's a bizarre world. I stood next to John Bercow for an hour last night at the Footie and today I stood next to Jamie Rednapp and Freddie Flintoff for an hour at a funeral.

    As you were standing, did you watch Sutton v Arsenal?
  • El_CapitanoEl_Capitano Posts: 4,238
    Ishmael_Z said:

    It seems from a casual google that there is a paper called the News & Star in West Cumbria, but that it is not the same thing as the West Cumbria News & Star which is a Lab concoction.

    It is the same thing. But I suspect the picture in this tweet is of a Labour-funded wraparound ad, of the sort that the Metro does frequently. Clever way of getting an image with masthead that you can then legitimately use in your election communications.
  • PlatoSaidPlatoSaid Posts: 10,383

    Toms said:

    Scott_P said:
    Mass produced, that'll make a fortune I expect.

    I've been thinking a bit about Trump.
    He's a master player of alternative truth in our age of global dissemination.
    But it would be great for someone or group to start a "Trump watch" web site listing his wrong and/or inconsistent statements.

    There is such a one for alternative medicine called "Quack watch".

    There is another site (I found it through the formidable Ben Goldacre's page) that lists many/most of articles in the Mail that juggle between cancer causing/curing foods, usually not in the same issue though.

    The "Trump Watch" site would be busy and informative. Of course Trump-o-philes wouldn't care less.

    Ben Goldacre is impeccable on medicine cures and the need for them to be correctly assessed usingh scientific method.

    See him at
    http://www.badscience.net/
    And he's oddly a full on global warming fan - most peculiar ditching of stats for bent modelling
  • PlatoSaid said:

    Even someone who tactically voted for the Kippers in 2015.
    I find they way Nutall has carried on downright bizarre.
    It really is amateur hour.

    He's no idea - what a pity. Nigel is a giant amongst pygmies
    Yes, who can forget Nigel's by-election successes?
    I would guess that for all of Nigel Farage's GE and By-election failures, he wouldn't want to swap for the one vote he did win.

  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 37,141
    PlatoSaid said:

    PlatoSaid said:

    Even someone who tactically voted for the Kippers in 2015.
    I find they way Nutall has carried on downright bizarre.
    It really is amateur hour.

    He's no idea - what a pity. Nigel is a giant amongst pygmies
    Yes, who can forget Nigel's by-election successes?
    It's so sad to see such sneering - he's achieved something incredible, helped change the entire future of our country, and now mates with POTUS.

    i wish I'd failed that much.
    What's better? Achieving the aim which your party was established to achieve. Or being a backbench MP for 10 years?
  • weejonnieweejonnie Posts: 3,820
    Pong said:

    15.22 Turnout in the two byelections on Thursday could be hit by Storm Doris which is forecast to bring heavy rain and gale force winds on Thursday. Both Copeland and Stoke-on-Trent Central fall within a band where the Met Office has issued an amber warning for heavy rain and 80mph winds.

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/blog/live/2017/feb/21/paul-nuttall-takes-party-in-stoke-byelection-hustings-after-ukip-resignations-politics-live

    Storm Doris?

    Who names these things?
    The Met office - Conspiracy theorists will suggest that they want to link storms in the UK to hurricanes in the US in the minds of the sheeple and thus provide further evidence of AGW.
  • 15.22 Turnout in the two byelections on Thursday could be hit by Storm Doris which is forecast to bring heavy rain and gale force winds on Thursday. Both Copeland and Stoke-on-Trent Central fall within a band where the Met Office has issued an amber warning for heavy rain and 80mph winds.

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/blog/live/2017/feb/21/paul-nuttall-takes-party-in-stoke-byelection-hustings-after-ukip-resignations-politics-live

    "Storm Doris" probably sounds a lot less threatening than it should.

    However, it should suppress on-the-day voting, so putting a premium on postal votes. UKIP to finish third (or fourth?!) in Stoke?
  • Blue_rogBlue_rog Posts: 2,019
    Toms said:

    Scott_P said:
    Mass produced, that'll make a fortune I expect.

    I've been thinking a bit about Trump.
    He's a master player of alternative truth in our age of global dissemination.
    But it would be great for someone or group to start a "Trump watch" web site listing his wrong and/or inconsistent statements.

    There is such a one for alternative medicine called "Quack watch".

    There is another site (I found it through the formidable Ben Goldacre's page) that lists many/most of articles in the Mail that juggle between cancer causing/curing foods, usually not in the same issue though.

    The "Trump Watch" site would be busy and informative. Of course Trump-o-philes wouldn't care less.
    After looking at transcripts of his speeches, I think that may be quite difficult as it's difficult to actually understand what he is saying. It's more a stream of consciousness rather than a speech
  • PlatoSaidPlatoSaid Posts: 10,383
    weejonnie said:

    weejonnie said:

    First Trump, then Salmond, now Corbyn:

    Jeremy Corbyn has blamed the media for Labour's consistently bad opinion poll ratings. The Labour leader said his party was more successful at getting its message across on social media sites instead.

    https://www.politicshome.com/news/uk/political-parties/labour-party/jeremy-corbyn/news/83493/jeremy-corbyn-media-blame-labour

    Mainly because Twitter/ Facebook are playthings of the left and are actively censoring sensible views.
    Some of us pb coffin-dodgers can remember a time when David Cameron roamed the Earth and Conservative election success was credited to the party's mastery of social media.
    That was then - Trump's victory in the USA has stirred a hornet's nest in the lat-left camp. As I have said before, social media is killing the left - it is providing positive feedback whereby all their more ludicrous ideas gain sufficient traction to become mainstream. Labour support is nosediving and the Democrats currently are wandering witless in the wilderness of USA politics.
    Militant gays, pro-choice and trans demanding floral wedding arrangements from Catholics, morning after pills from nuns and men in ladies bathrooms are just core voter issues. Oh and anti-white racism.
  • tysontyson Posts: 6,114
    edited February 2017
    PlatoSaid said:

    PlatoSaid said:

    Even someone who tactically voted for the Kippers in 2015.
    I find they way Nutall has carried on downright bizarre.
    It really is amateur hour.

    He's no idea - what a pity. Nigel is a giant amongst pygmies
    Yes, who can forget Nigel's by-election successes?
    It's so sad to see such sneering - he's achieved something incredible, helped change the entire future of our country, and now mates with POTUS.

    i wish I'd failed that much.
    I think history will judge Farage's squalid movement, Brexit, his friendship with the POTUS far less adoringly than our usual pbcom cheerleaders......
  • PlatoSaid said:

    Even someone who tactically voted for the Kippers in 2015.
    I find they way Nutall has carried on downright bizarre.
    It really is amateur hour.

    He's no idea - what a pity. Nigel is a giant amongst pygmies
    Yes, who can forget Nigel's by-election successes?
    He did win the 2014 Euro-election though; one of only three parties to win a UK-wide election in the last 100 years.
  • TGOHF said:

    One for the science or space geeks:

    NASA will hold a news conference at 1 p.m. EST Wednesday, Feb. 22, to present new findings on planets that orbit stars other than our sun, known as exoplanets. The event will air live on NASA Television and the agency's website.

    Details of these findings are embargoed by the journal Nature until 1 p.m.

    https://www.nasa.gov/press-release/nasa-to-host-news-conference-on-discovery-beyond-our-solar-system

    Note: some of these announcements have, in the past, not quite lived up to their stellar hype.

    Glad to see NASA under Trump focussing on space and not climate change bollocks.
    Don't like what your scientists are telling you about something? Tell them to stop looking at it! What could possibly go wrong?
  • tysontyson Posts: 6,114
    Sean_F said:

    PlatoSaid said:

    PlatoSaid said:

    Even someone who tactically voted for the Kippers in 2015.
    I find they way Nutall has carried on downright bizarre.
    It really is amateur hour.

    He's no idea - what a pity. Nigel is a giant amongst pygmies
    Yes, who can forget Nigel's by-election successes?
    It's so sad to see such sneering - he's achieved something incredible, helped change the entire future of our country, and now mates with POTUS.

    i wish I'd failed that much.
    What's better? Achieving the aim which your party was established to achieve. Or being a backbench MP for 10 years?
    Depends if that aim ends up being a monumental clusturfuck.........
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,301
    edited February 2017

    15.22 Turnout in the two byelections on Thursday could be hit by Storm Doris which is forecast to bring heavy rain and gale force winds on Thursday. Both Copeland and Stoke-on-Trent Central fall within a band where the Met Office has issued an amber warning for heavy rain and 80mph winds.

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/blog/live/2017/feb/21/paul-nuttall-takes-party-in-stoke-byelection-hustings-after-ukip-resignations-politics-live

    "Storm Doris" probably sounds a lot less threatening than it should.

    However, it should suppress on-the-day voting, so putting a premium on postal votes. UKIP to finish third (or fourth?!) in Stoke?
    The weather won't be an issue for hearty Northern voters in Copeland, but the soft Southern Jessies in Stoke will stay at home rather than go out and vote.
  • TomsToms Posts: 2,478
    edited February 2017
    Blue_rog said:

    Toms said:

    Scott_P said:
    Mass produced, that'll make a fortune I expect.

    I've been thinking a bit about Trump.
    He's a master player of alternative truth in our age of global dissemination.
    But it would be great for someone or group to start a "Trump watch" web site listing his wrong and/or inconsistent statements.

    There is such a one for alternative medicine called "Quack watch".

    There is another site (I found it through the formidable Ben Goldacre's page) that lists many/most of articles in the Mail that juggle between cancer causing/curing foods, usually not in the same issue though.

    The "Trump Watch" site would be busy and informative. Of course Trump-o-philes wouldn't care less.
    After looking at transcripts of his speeches, I think that may be quite difficult as it's difficult to actually understand what he is saying. It's more a stream of consciousness rather than a speech
    Yep. I did say that he's a master at twisted misinformation. But some if his stuff is fairly explicit. Say that Obama isn't American and that Clinton should be in jail.
    Maybe psychologists might help?
  • Blue_rogBlue_rog Posts: 2,019

    15.22 Turnout in the two byelections on Thursday could be hit by Storm Doris which is forecast to bring heavy rain and gale force winds on Thursday. Both Copeland and Stoke-on-Trent Central fall within a band where the Met Office has issued an amber warning for heavy rain and 80mph winds.

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/blog/live/2017/feb/21/paul-nuttall-takes-party-in-stoke-byelection-hustings-after-ukip-resignations-politics-live

    "Storm Doris" probably sounds a lot less threatening than it should.

    However, it should suppress on-the-day voting, so putting a premium on postal votes. UKIP to finish third (or fourth?!) in Stoke?
    The weather won't be an issue for hearty Northern voters in Copeland, but the soft Southern Jessies in Stoke will stay at home rather than go out and vote.
    :lol::lol::lol:
  • PlatoSaidPlatoSaid Posts: 10,383
    Sean_F said:

    weejonnie said:

    weejonnie said:

    First Trump, then Salmond, now Corbyn:

    Jeremy Corbyn has blamed the media for Labour's consistently bad opinion poll ratings. The Labour leader said his party was more successful at getting its message across on social media sites instead.

    https://www.politicshome.com/news/uk/political-parties/labour-party/jeremy-corbyn/news/83493/jeremy-corbyn-media-blame-labour

    Mainly because Twitter/ Facebook are playthings of the left and are actively censoring sensible views.
    Some of us pb coffin-dodgers can remember a time when David Cameron roamed the Earth and Conservative election success was credited to the party's mastery of social media.
    That was then - Trump's victory in the USA has stirred a hornet's nest in the lat-left camp. As I have said before, social media is killing the left - it is providing positive feedback whereby all their more ludicrous ideas gain sufficient traction to become mainstream. Labour support is nosediving and the Democrats currently are wandering witless in the wilderness of USA politics.
    I think that a bigger problem for a good part of the Left is that they've forgotten how to argue their case.
    Racist! Nazi! Bigot!
  • weejonnie said:

    weejonnie said:

    First Trump, then Salmond, now Corbyn:

    Jeremy Corbyn has blamed the media for Labour's consistently bad opinion poll ratings. The Labour leader said his party was more successful at getting its message across on social media sites instead.

    https://www.politicshome.com/news/uk/political-parties/labour-party/jeremy-corbyn/news/83493/jeremy-corbyn-media-blame-labour

    Mainly because Twitter/ Facebook are playthings of the left and are actively censoring sensible views.
    Some of us pb coffin-dodgers can remember a time when David Cameron roamed the Earth and Conservative election success was credited to the party's mastery of social media.
    That was then - Trump's victory in the USA has stirred a hornet's nest in the lat-left camp. As I have said before, social media is killing the left - it is providing positive feedback whereby all their more ludicrous ideas gain sufficient traction to become mainstream. Labour support is nosediving and the Democrats currently are wandering witless in the wilderness of USA politics.
    Trump's victory -- by 3 million fewer votes than Hillary stacked up btw -- has discombobulated the right wing more than the left. For a start, he routed the GOP Establishment and for an encore, the Tea Party GOPpers. It turns out that support for the Tea Party was down to their NOTA status; not because of support for their wilder policies. On many social issues, I doubt you could get a fag paper between Hillary and the Donald. He seems relaxed about abortion and gays, and even wants Obamacare reformed and replaced rather than abolished. If he is to be impeached, it will be Republicans not Democrats.
  • stodgestodge Posts: 13,800
    Afternoon all :)

    I have absolutely no insight to offer with regard to the Stoke and Copeland by elections.

    I have gone to neither contest, I know both areas about as well as I know downtown Vladivostok (which is not well) and have not followed either contest or the campaigns.

    I won't make a prediction and I haven't had a bet on the outcome - I did have a pleasant afternoon in the sunshine at Lingfield and backed a 9/1 winner thank you for asking.

    I do know from personal experience how stressful and exhausting by elections can be - Friday will seem an eternity away but I bet most of the participants can't wait.
  • isamisam Posts: 41,118
    edited February 2017
    midwinter said:

    Danny565 said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Stoke :

    Labour 41%
    Tories 19%
    UKIP 18%
    Lib Dem 17%

    Copeland:
    Labour 39%
    Tories 36%
    Lib Dems 11%
    UKIP 9%


    I concur. That sounds about right to me.
    In short - Copeland is a 2 horse race and I don't know who will win. The value is with labour, and I think they'll edge it.
    Stoke looks to be a one horse race to me, second place is tricky to work out though. At the prices for the straight bet laying UKIP looks to be the clear correct position.
    I still think UKIP are favourites for 2nd in Stoke. Firstly, their vote has been pretty resilient in all parliamentary byelections since 2015, except for Witney. And I think May's visit might have come too late to deter ALL the Tory voters who were going to tactically go UKIP.

    Dr Nuttall's escapades have probably put off many potential Lab->UKIP switchers (if they were ever tempted in the first place), but I'd think the UKIP hardcore vote will be tuning this stuff out. Maybe even discounting it all as a "media smear campaign".
    I'd imagine most most Tory to UKIP switchers would have headed that way in 2015 and plenty wouldn't vote for UKIP ever anyway. Any that were considering it must have been put off by Nuttall. Which may all help fracture the anti -Labour vote. The unknown I suppose is how damaging the Labour candidate and Corbyn are ..which could bring the Lib Dems into the equation yet.
    "I'd imagine most most Tory to UKIP switchers would have headed that way in 2015 "

    Funny how people read things differently. I think plenty of would be UKIP voters stayed Conservative because they didn't want to risk Ed & the SNP in coalition. Now they have the choice between a Eurosceptic and 4 ardent remainers w a Tory majority assured either way
This discussion has been closed.