Broadly the Trent-Severn line. I agree. Wales should not be included however as it's a separate country within the UK.
You could argue that the Trent at Nottingham is the hard border between north and south. Notts County FC in the Meadows and fully part of the English north. Forest in hardcore Remainer Tory Rushcliffe and the first club in the English south.
Broadly the Trent-Severn line. I agree. Wales should not be included however as it's a separate country within the UK.
You could argue that the Trent at Nottingham is the hard border between north and south. Notts County FC in the Meadows and fully part of the English north. Forest in hardcore Remainer Tory Rushcliffe and the first club in the English south.
No southerner (from London and the South-East, the South Central (Hants, Berks, Oxon) or the South-West) regards counties such as Leics and Lincs as southern. Even Northants is pushing it.
The line puts South and East Leics in the South (fitting for Market Harborough, Lutterworth, Quorn and Melton Mowbray). Leicester itself is just south of the line, but Loughborough and Coalville to the North. Sounds about right to me. Lincs south of Humberside is in the South too.
Parochialism is a strong feelining in most of Provincial England, people don't like being lumped in with the neighbouring town.
On topic @GillTroughton is a pretty squeaky clean twitter and Facebook feed.
The value is on Labour in Copeland, and laying UKIP in Stoke.
I think of it as a line from the Severn to the Wash.
Industrial Wales is much more 'northern' in character than 'southern'. East Midlands too. Northants. is borderline but more north than south. Shropshire may seem rural and idyllic but has always had coal mining too ... and used to have lead mines
Almost exactly half the population live above the line, but probably much more than half the wealth is to be found below the line.
The Midlands is a quadrilateral, with corners at The Wash, the Humber, the Mersey and the Severn. Outside of that is, going clockwise, is the North, East Anglia, the South and Wales.
Sunil's Great British Railway Journeys - 2017 Edition (so far). Rail routes that Sunil has done for the first time - excludes journeys taken to reach said routes. Other routes were done for the first time in previous calendar years.
January: Doncaster to Hull via Selby, Chester to Warrington Bank Quay, Warrington Bank Quay to Newton-le-Willows, Bermondsey Dive-under (London Bridge to New Cross Gate), Hayes & Harlington "new" bay platform, Heathrow Airport junction new layout (slow tracks).
February: Sheffield to Lincoln, Swinton (Yorks.) to Fitzwilliam, Leeds to York, Doncaster to Cleethorpes, Heathrow Airport junction new layout (fast tracks), Guide Bridge to Rose Hill, Leeds to Skipton, Deansgate to Leyland, Preston to Blackpool North, Blackpool Tramway (Fleetwood Ferry to Starr Gate), Manchester Victoria to Mirfield via Brighouse, Leeds to Sowerby Bridge via Bradford Interchange, Manchester Victoria to Stalybridge, Manchester Victoria to Southport, Wigan Wallgate to Kirkby, Chinley to Ashburys (Manchester).
Are you taking suggestions?
Ummmm.... kinda. But I'm actually trying to colour in as much of my Bradshaw's Guide Baker Atlas as possible
Jolly good. However, if you've not yet done it then...
Birmingham Int > Aberystwyth Aberystwyth > Devils Bridge > Aberystwyth (On what was BR's last steam railway and first privatization) Aberystwyth clifftop railway Aberystwyth > Civilization.
...would be a reasonable day out. Just try and avoid the start and end of terms.
Yep, always wanted to Shrewsbury to Aberystwyth! Lengthening days may mean I could be able tio squueze in the Vale of Rheidol line to Devil's Bridge. I did Birmingham to Shrewsbury in 2014, Shrewsbury to Crewe and Shrewsbury to Hereford in 2015, and Shrewbury to Chester via Wrexham in 2016.
Its a nice run - if the track doesn't flood and the students are down to sensible numbers.
Sunil's Great British Railway Journeys - 2017 Edition (so far). Rail routes that Sunil has done for the first time - excludes journeys taken to reach said routes. Other routes were done for the first time in previous calendar years.
January: Doncaster to Hull via Selby, Chester to Warrington Bank Quay, Warrington Bank Quay to Newton-le-Willows, Bermondsey Dive-under (London Bridge to New Cross Gate), Hayes & Harlington "new" bay platform, Heathrow Airport junction new layout (slow tracks).
February: Sheffield to Lincoln, Swinton (Yorks.) to Fitzwilliam, Leeds to York, Doncaster to Cleethorpes, Heathrow Airport junction new layout (fast tracks), Guide Bridge to Rose Hill, Leeds to Skipton, Deansgate to Leyland, Preston to Blackpool North, Blackpool Tramway (Fleetwood Ferry to Starr Gate), Manchester Victoria to Mirfield via Brighouse, Leeds to Sowerby Bridge via Bradford Interchange, Manchester Victoria to Stalybridge, Manchester Victoria to Southport, Wigan Wallgate to Kirkby, Chinley to Ashburys (Manchester).
Are you taking suggestions?
Ummmm.... kinda. But I'm actually trying to colour in as much of my Bradshaw's Guide Baker Atlas as possible
Have you actually got a copy of Bradshaw's, Cap'n Doc?
No I don't, I'm afraid! Think of me as a pound shop Michael Portillo
Ever since the BAFTAs, I have been pondering over Ken Loach's speech attacking the Government for its assault on the vulnerable and disabled.
As I understand it, the Coalition replaced DLA (Disability Living Allowance) with PIPs (Personal Independence Payments), which in some cases has cut benefits dramatically for disabled people.
But "I Daniel Blake" (which I haven't seen) is not about PIP but about someone being assessed as medically fit for work. The system of Employment Support Allowance and the medical assessments that go with it was introduced by the Labour Government and the key minister in its introduction was James Purnell, who is now at the BBC.
There is a hatchet piece on Ken Loach in The Daily Mail on-line which claims that Loach received public funding for his film "The Wind That Shakes The Barley" when Purnell was Industry Minister and that Purnell praised the film.
Perhaps I'm getting this wrong but it does seemed two-faced of Ken Loach to attack the present Government without acknowledging what previous Governments have done.
With respect I think you need to see the film before you come to these judgements.
As a South Londoner I completely agree with that, except that I'd swap "London" and "Here Be Dragons"
My father was born just to the East of the City of London and when he and his new wife were re-housed after the war (having been bombed out) it was to Battersea and then Wandsworth. In his later years he told me that moving South of the River was the hardest thing he had ever done. To his dying day he maintained that the North began at the Clerkenwell Road.
I have never been quite such a London extremist but I swear if you blindfold a London born person and drop them into North or South London they will be able to tell you which side of the river they are on within thirty seconds of having the blindfold removed.
It's not really true now but the old London accents were so distinctive that once upon a time you wouldn't have had to remove the blindfold.
I did routes in London Zones 1 to 4 way back during season 1994/5, and everything out to Zone 6 during 1999/2000, and those routes inside the M25 but outside the (then) Travelcard boundary during summer 2000.
Sunil's Great British Railway Journeys - 2017 Edition (so far). Rail routes that Sunil has done for the first time - excludes journeys taken to reach said routes. Other routes were done for the first time in previous calendar years.
January: Doncaster to Hull via Selby, Chester to Warrington Bank Quay, Warrington Bank Quay to Newton-le-Willows, Bermondsey Dive-under (London Bridge to New Cross Gate), Hayes & Harlington "new" bay platform, Heathrow Airport junction new layout (slow tracks).
February: Sheffield to Lincoln, Swinton (Yorks.) to Fitzwilliam, Leeds to York, Doncaster to Cleethorpes, Heathrow Airport junction new layout (fast tracks), Guide Bridge to Rose Hill, Leeds to Skipton, Deansgate to Leyland, Preston to Blackpool North, Blackpool Tramway (Fleetwood Ferry to Starr Gate), Manchester Victoria to Mirfield via Brighouse, Leeds to Sowerby Bridge via Bradford Interchange, Manchester Victoria to Stalybridge, Manchester Victoria to Southport, Wigan Wallgate to Kirkby, Chinley to Ashburys (Manchester).
Are you taking suggestions?
Ummmm.... kinda. But I'm actually trying to colour in as much of my Bradshaw's Guide Baker Atlas as possible
Have you actually got a copy of Bradshaw's, Cap'n Doc?
No I don't, I'm afraid! Think of me as a pound shop Michael Portillo
(Sunil hugs his trusty Baker Atlas).
If you would like one, albeit a reprint, PM me with a physical address to send it to or email me at HurstLlama at gmail dot com
As a South Londoner I completely agree with that, except that I'd swap "London" and "Here Be Dragons"
My father was born just to the East of the City of London and when he and his new wife were re-housed after the war (having been bombed out) it was to Battersea and then Wandsworth. In his later years he told me that moving South of the River was the hardest thing he had ever done. To his dying day he maintained that the North began at the Clerkenwell Road.
I have never been quite such a London extremist but I swear if you blindfold a London born person and drop them into North or South London they will be able to tell you which side of the river they are on within thirty seconds of having the blindfold removed.
There was a comedian I saw years ago (name long lost) who had a wonderful way to differentiate whether you are in North or South London. "In North London" he said "you have blue signs dotted about, telling you the names of famous former residents. In South London, you have yellow signs, saying "MURDER: Can You Help?"
Sunil's Great British Railway Journeys - 2017 Edition (so far). Rail routes that Sunil has done for the first time - excludes journeys taken to reach said routes. Other routes were done for the first time in previous calendar years.
January: Doncaster to Hull via Selby, Chester to Warrington Bank Quay, Warrington Bank Quay to Newton-le-Willows, Bermondsey Dive-under (London Bridge to New Cross Gate), Hayes & Harlington "new" bay platform, Heathrow Airport junction new layout (slow tracks).
February: Sheffield to Lincoln, Swinton (Yorks.) to Fitzwilliam, Leeds to York, Doncaster to Cleethorpes, Heathrow Airport junction new layout (fast tracks), Guide Bridge to Rose Hill, Leeds to Skipton, Deansgate to Leyland, Preston to Blackpool North, Blackpool Tramway (Fleetwood Ferry to Starr Gate), Manchester Victoria to Mirfield via Brighouse, Leeds to Sowerby Bridge via Bradford Interchange, Manchester Victoria to Stalybridge, Manchester Victoria to Southport, Wigan Wallgate to Kirkby, Chinley to Ashburys (Manchester).
Are you taking suggestions?
Ummmm.... kinda. But I'm actually trying to colour in as much of my Bradshaw's Guide Baker Atlas as possible
Skipton to Appleby these next two days is to be recommended.
Damn! I ws actually staying in Sheffield two weeks ago (but not this week), when I did Leeds - Skipton.
I did routes in London Zones 1 to 4 way back during season 1994/5, and everything out to Zone 6 during 1999/2000, and those routes inside the M25 but outside the (then) Travelcard boundary during summer 2000.
Avoid those badlands just to the North of the M25. There are some strange residents in that part of the world.
St Albans is always much further west and closer to London than I expect it to be on a map. Always associate it with East Anglia on a subconscious level.
As a South Londoner I completely agree with that, except that I'd swap "London" and "Here Be Dragons"
My father was born just to the East of the City of London and when he and his new wife were re-housed after the war (having been bombed out) it was to Battersea and then Wandsworth. In his later years he told me that moving South of the River was the hardest thing he had ever done. To his dying day he maintained that the North began at the Clerkenwell Road.
I have never been quite such a London extremist but I swear if you blindfold a London born person and drop them into North or South London they will be able to tell you which side of the river they are on within thirty seconds of having the blindfold removed.
It's not really true now but the old London accents were so distinctive that once upon a time you wouldn't have had to remove the blindfold.
Yep - There was definitely a distinctive North and South London accent back in the day - north London was slower and the words stretched a little bit. You can still hear the East End one among some older people if you listen carefully. The r becomes a w in the middle of words - vewy, alwight etc.
Broadly the Trent-Severn line. I agree. Wales should not be included however as it's a separate country within the UK.
You could argue that the Trent at Nottingham is the hard border between north and south. Notts County FC in the Meadows and fully part of the English north. Forest in hardcore Remainer Tory Rushcliffe and the first club in the English south.
My son is at Nottingham University and we went to visit him up there a few weeks back,. It was the North, no doubt :-) Mansfield is the grim North.
I lived in Nottingham for years. Never felt like the north to me. The architecture, the light, the landscape, the voices were all, well, not northern. It feel churlish to complain of living too far south when it's only 50 miles south of my home town, but that's how it was. Though I agree once you're south of the Trent it feels significantly more southern.
And Mansfield is grim, but grim does not necessarily equal northern.
Chesterfield, however, does feel northern, to me, just about.
Some of my family live in a village 'on-Trent'. So much so, in floods the Trent comes along the High Street. When it floods, are they northern or southern?
Incidentally, my brother and sister were born in a house trapped between the River Trent and the Trent and Mersey Canal (which is undoubtedly northern). Does that make them Midlanders ?
The name 'Trent' is Brythonic and means 'Trespasser'. It is historically the most mobile river in Britain, having changed course more than any other British river.
Historically it is also the boundary between the South and the North. That is codified in laws and descriptions in Roman, Medieval, Tudor and Stuart times.
I did routes in London Zones 1 to 4 way back during season 1994/5, and everything out to Zone 6 during 1999/2000, and those routes inside the M25 but outside the (then) Travelcard boundary during summer 2000.
Avoid those badlands just to the North of the M25. There are some strange residents in that part of the world.
Too late, I'm afraid - I did rail routes out to around 50 miles radius from London during late 2011.
Ever since the BAFTAs, I have been pondering over Ken Loach's speech attacking the Government for its assault on the vulnerable and disabled.
As I understand it, the Coalition replaced DLA (Disability Living Allowance) with PIPs (Personal Independence Payments), which in some cases has cut benefits dramatically for disabled people.
But "I Daniel Blake" (which I haven't seen) is not about PIP but about someone being assessed as medically fit for work. The system of Employment Support Allowance and the medical assessments that go with it was introduced by the Labour Government and the key minister in its introduction was James Purnell, who is now at the BBC.
There is a hatchet piece on Ken Loach in The Daily Mail on-line which claims that Loach received public funding for his film "The Wind That Shakes The Barley" when Purnell was Industry Minister and that Purnell praised the film.
Perhaps I'm getting this wrong but it does seemed two-faced of Ken Loach to attack the present Government without acknowledging what previous Governments have done.
Don't worry Loach hates the Blair/Brown government as much as Tories.
Loach only has one speech he ever gives and two words which are interchangeable. When Labour are in power he attacks 'The Rich'. When the Tories are in Power he attacks 'The Government'. Apart from that he has been boring us with the same left wing rubbish for the last 30 years or more.
I did routes in London Zones 1 to 4 way back during season 1994/5, and everything out to Zone 6 during 1999/2000, and those routes inside the M25 but outside the (then) Travelcard boundary during summer 2000.
Avoid those badlands just to the North of the M25. There are some strange residents in that part of the world.
Too late, I'm afraid - I did rail routes out to around 50 miles radius from London during late 2011.
I've been to Hertford East and Cheshunt
Cheshunt station is about 60 yards from where I am sitting.
St Albans is always much further west and closer to London than I expect it to be on a map. Always associate it with East Anglia on a subconscious level.
Broadly the Trent-Severn line. I agree. Wales should not be included however as it's a separate country within the UK.
You could argue that the Trent at Nottingham is the hard border between north and south. Notts County FC in the Meadows and fully part of the English north. Forest in hardcore Remainer Tory Rushcliffe and the first club in the English south.
My son is at Nottingham University and we went to visit him up there a few weeks back,. It was the North, no doubt :-) Mansfield is the grim North.
I lived in Nottingham for years. Never felt like the north to me. The architecture, the light, the landscape, the voices were all, well, not northern. It feel churlish to complain of living too far south when it's only 50 miles south of my home town, but that's how it was. Though I agree once you're south of the Trent it feels significantly more southern.
And Mansfield is grim, but grim does not necessarily equal northern.
Chesterfield, however, does feel northern, to me, just about.
Mansfield is Northern, and grim in parts. But there are far grimmer parts of Derby and London!
Interesting place - cut off the railways completely from 1970 to about 2000. 75k people and no railway station.
We are working on it. One of the advantages of Mansfield is that a couple of people in their 20s can start up a 6000 sqft gym for under 50k. Try that in Southam.
Ever since the BAFTAs, I have been pondering over Ken Loach's speech attacking the Government for its assault on the vulnerable and disabled.
As I understand it, the Coalition replaced DLA (Disability Living Allowance) with PIPs (Personal Independence Payments), which in some cases has cut benefits dramatically for disabled people.
But "I Daniel Blake" (which I haven't seen) is not about PIP but about someone being assessed as medically fit for work. The system of Employment Support Allowance and the medical assessments that go with it was introduced by the Labour Government and the key minister in its introduction was James Purnell, who is now at the BBC.
There is a hatchet piece on Ken Loach in The Daily Mail on-line which claims that Loach received public funding for his film "The Wind That Shakes The Barley" when Purnell was Industry Minister and that Purnell praised the film.
Perhaps I'm getting this wrong but it does seemed two-faced of Ken Loach to attack the present Government without acknowledging what previous Governments have done.
Don't worry Loach hates the Blair/Brown government as much as Tories.
Loach only has one speech he ever gives and two words which are interchangeable. When Labour are in power he attacks 'The Rich'. When the Tories are in Power he attacks 'The Government'. Apart from that he has been boring us with the same left wing rubbish for the last 30 years or more.
I did routes in London Zones 1 to 4 way back during season 1994/5, and everything out to Zone 6 during 1999/2000, and those routes inside the M25 but outside the (then) Travelcard boundary during summer 2000.
Avoid those badlands just to the North of the M25. There are some strange residents in that part of the world.
Too late, I'm afraid - I did rail routes out to around 50 miles radius from London during late 2011.
I've been to Hertford East and Cheshunt
Cheshunt station is about 60 yards from where I am sitting.
No way! I always thought you were actually near Potters Bar!
Broadly the Trent-Severn line. I agree. Wales should not be included however as it's a separate country within the UK.
You could argue that the Trent at Nottingham is the hard border between north and south. Notts County FC in the Meadows and fully part of the English north. Forest in hardcore Remainer Tory Rushcliffe and the first club in the English south.
My son is at Nottingham University and we went to visit him up there a few weeks back,. It was the North, no doubt :-) Mansfield is the grim North.
I lived in Nottingham for years. Never felt like the north to me. The architecture, the light, the landscape, the voices were all, well, not northern. It feel churlish to complain of living too far south when it's only 50 miles south of my home town, but that's how it was. Though I agree once you're south of the Trent it feels significantly more southern.
And Mansfield is grim, but grim does not necessarily equal northern.
Chesterfield, however, does feel northern, to me, just about.
Mansfield is Northern, and grim in parts. But there are far grimmer parts of Derby and London!
Interesting place - cut off the railways completely from 1970 to about 2000. 75k people and no railway station.
We are working on it. One of the advantages of Mansfield is that a couple of people in their 20s can start up a 6000 sqft gym for around 20k. Try that in Southam.
I did routes in London Zones 1 to 4 way back during season 1994/5, and everything out to Zone 6 during 1999/2000, and those routes inside the M25 but outside the (then) Travelcard boundary during summer 2000.
Avoid those badlands just to the North of the M25. There are some strange residents in that part of the world.
Too late, I'm afraid - I did rail routes out to around 50 miles radius from London during late 2011.
I've been to Hertford East and Cheshunt
Cheshunt station is about 60 yards from where I am sitting.
No way! I always thought you were actually near Potters Bar!
I live in Potters Bar, these days I'm working in Cheshunt
Broadly the Trent-Severn line. I agree. Wales should not be included however as it's a separate country within the UK.
You could argue that the Trent at Nottingham is the hard border between north and south. Notts County FC in the Meadows and fully part of the English north. Forest in hardcore Remainer Tory Rushcliffe and the first club in the English south.
My son is at Nottingham University and we went to visit him up there a few weeks back,. It was the North, no doubt :-) Mansfield is the grim North.
I lived in Nottingham for years. Never felt like the north to me. The architecture, the light, the landscape, the voices were all, well, not northern. It feel churlish to complain of living too far south when it's only 50 miles south of my home town, but that's how it was. Though I agree once you're south of the Trent it feels significantly more southern.
And Mansfield is grim, but grim does not necessarily equal northern.
Chesterfield, however, does feel northern, to me, just about.
Mansfield is Northern, and grim in parts. But there are far grimmer parts of Derby and London!
Interesting place - cut off the railways completely from 1970 to about 2000. 75k people and no railway station.
We are working on it. One of the advantages of Mansfield is that a couple of people in their 20s can start up a 6000 sqft gym for around 20k. Try that in Southam.
Full of leave voters as well no doubt. Despite the shed loads of EU Regional Development money that have gone into the area.
Ever since the BAFTAs, I have been pondering over Ken Loach's speech attacking the Government for its assault on the vulnerable and disabled.
As I understand it, the Coalition replaced DLA (Disability Living Allowance) with PIPs (Personal Independence Payments), which in some cases has cut benefits dramatically for disabled people.
But "I Daniel Blake" (which I haven't seen) is not about PIP but about someone being assessed as medically fit for work. The system of Employment Support Allowance and the medical assessments that go with it was introduced by the Labour Government and the key minister in its introduction was James Purnell, who is now at the BBC.
There is a hatchet piece on Ken Loach in The Daily Mail on-line which claims that Loach received public funding for his film "The Wind That Shakes The Barley" when Purnell was Industry Minister and that Purnell praised the film.
Perhaps I'm getting this wrong but it does seemed two-faced of Ken Loach to attack the present Government without acknowledging what previous Governments have done.
Don't worry Loach hates the Blair/Brown government as much as Tories.
Loach only has one speech he ever gives and two words which are interchangeable. When Labour are in power he attacks 'The Rich'. When the Tories are in Power he attacks 'The Government'. Apart from that he has been boring us with the same left wing rubbish for the last 30 years or more.
If you could put your prejudices aside you would realise I Daniel Blake is a decent film. Far better than La La Land anyway.
Broadly the Trent-Severn line. I agree. Wales should not be included however as it's a separate country within the UK.
You could argue that the Trent at Nottingham is the hard border between north and south. Notts County FC in the Meadows and fully part of the English north. Forest in hardcore Remainer Tory Rushcliffe and the first club in the English south.
My son is at Nottingham University and we went to visit him up there a few weeks back,. It was the North, no doubt :-) Mansfield is the grim North.
No, Nottingham is in the Midlands, not the north or south. The north/south divide is a ridiculous concept because it excludes 10 million people who identify as Midlanders.
I did routes in London Zones 1 to 4 way back during season 1994/5, and everything out to Zone 6 during 1999/2000, and those routes inside the M25 but outside the (then) Travelcard boundary during summer 2000.
Avoid those badlands just to the North of the M25. There are some strange residents in that part of the world.
Too late, I'm afraid - I did rail routes out to around 50 miles radius from London during late 2011.
I've been to Hertford East and Cheshunt
Cheshunt station is about 60 yards from where I am sitting.
No way! I always thought you were actually near Potters Bar!
I live in Potters Bar, these days I'm working in Cheshunt
Another gem from Iceland is that until 1983 there was no TV in July and it was not shown on Thursdays until 1987!
I visited Finland twice in mid 1980s. There was no TV there on Thursday either.
It was explained to me that it was the evening when everyone went out and did community stuff, sports and so on. Seemed quite a brilliant idea to me at the time, but no use in Internet era.
Broadly the Trent-Severn line. I agree. Wales should not be included however as it's a separate country within the UK.
You could argue that the Trent at Nottingham is the hard border between north and south. Notts County FC in the Meadows and fully part of the English north. Forest in hardcore Remainer Tory Rushcliffe and the first club in the English south.
My son is at Nottingham University and we went to visit him up there a few weeks back,. It was the North, no doubt :-) Mansfield is the grim North.
No, Nottingham is in the Midlands, not the north or south. The north/south divide is a ridiculous concept because it excludes 10 million people who identify as Midlanders.
Could the Liberals actually win Stoke Central? With two appalling candidates, Labour and UKIP seem intent on de-railing their own campaigns. I don't even know who the Liberal candidate is (and I can't be bothered to find out either), but surely they have a decent chance if they can motivate all of the Remainers to vote? Seems improbable, but as Smithson says, if Labour can't get their apathetic voters to turn out...
I suppose losing to the Liberals would be preferable to UKIP, both for Labour, the MSM, and a terrified HoC.
Broadly the Trent-Severn line. I agree. Wales should not be included however as it's a separate country within the UK.
You could argue that the Trent at Nottingham is the hard border between north and south. Notts County FC in the Meadows and fully part of the English north. Forest in hardcore Remainer Tory Rushcliffe and the first club in the English south.
My son is at Nottingham University and we went to visit him up there a few weeks back,. It was the North, no doubt :-) Mansfield is the grim North.
No, Nottingham is in the Midlands, not the north or south. The north/south divide is a ridiculous concept because it excludes 10 million people who identify as Midlanders.
If Nottingham is the north then I'm a duck.
Take Sutton Coldfield for example. Definitely not in the north. Definitely not in the south. The same is true for places like Tamworth, Nuneaton, Burton-on-Trent, Leicester, etc.
Broadly the Trent-Severn line. I agree. Wales should not be included however as it's a separate country within the UK.
You could argue that the Trent at Nottingham is the hard border between north and south. Notts County FC in the Meadows and fully part of the English north. Forest in hardcore Remainer Tory Rushcliffe and the first club in the English south.
My son is at Nottingham University and we went to visit him up there a few weeks back,. It was the North, no doubt :-) Mansfield is the grim North.
No, Nottingham is in the Midlands, not the north or south. The north/south divide is a ridiculous concept because it excludes 10 million people who identify as Midlanders.
Broadly the Trent-Severn line. I agree. Wales should not be included however as it's a separate country within the UK.
You could argue that the Trent at Nottingham is the hard border between north and south. Notts County FC in the Meadows and fully part of the English north. Forest in hardcore Remainer Tory Rushcliffe and the first club in the English south.
My son is at Nottingham University and we went to visit him up there a few weeks back,. It was the North, no doubt :-) Mansfield is the grim North.
I lived in Nottingham for years. Never felt like the north to me. The architecture, the light, the landscape, the voices were all, well, not northern. It feel churlish to complain of living too far south when it's only 50 miles south of my home town, but that's how it was. Though I agree once you're south of the Trent it feels significantly more southern.
And Mansfield is grim, but grim does not necessarily equal northern.
Chesterfield, however, does feel northern, to me, just about.
Mansfield is Northern, and grim in parts. But there are far grimmer parts of Derby and London!
Interesting place - cut off the railways completely from 1970 to about 2000. 75k people and no railway station.
We are working on it. One of the advantages of Mansfield is that a couple of people in their 20s can start up a 6000 sqft gym for around 20k. Try that in Southam.
Full of leave voters as well no doubt. Despite the shed loads of EU Regional Development money that have gone into the area.
But the UK as a whole is a net contributor to EU coffers!
Could the Liberals actually win Stoke Central? With two appalling candidates, Labour and UKIP seem intent on de-railing their own campaigns. I don't even know who the Liberal candidate is (and I can't be bothered to find out either), but surely they have a decent chance if they can motivate all of the Remainers to vote? Seems improbable, but as Smithson says, if Labour can't get their apathetic voters to turn out...
I suppose losing to the Liberals would be preferable to UKIP, both for Labour, the MSM, and a terrified HoC.
I am not sure that the difference in accents you describe were really about North and South of the River as between the lands to the East of the City, but still North of the River (so not North London) and everywhere else.
My uncle Bill, born in Shoreditch, died in Shoreditch and, only left it apart from holidays, for the war, had the verbal traits that Mr. Observer describes (along with a lot of others). However, my brother in law, born in Islington (long before it became trendy) and lived there most of his life did not. In fact the differnece in accents between the two were quite remarkable.
Ever since the BAFTAs, I have been pondering over Ken Loach's speech attacking the Government for its assault on the vulnerable and disabled.
As I understand it, the Coalition replaced DLA (Disability Living Allowance) with PIPs (Personal Independence Payments), which in some cases has cut benefits dramatically for disabled people.
But "I Daniel Blake" (which I haven't seen) is not about PIP but about someone being assessed as medically fit for work. The system of Employment Support Allowance and the medical assessments that go with it was introduced by the Labour Government and the key minister in its introduction was James Purnell, who is now at the BBC.
There is a hatchet piece on Ken Loach in The Daily Mail on-line which claims that Loach received public funding for his film "The Wind That Shakes The Barley" when Purnell was Industry Minister and that Purnell praised the film.
Perhaps I'm getting this wrong but it does seemed two-faced of Ken Loach to attack the present Government without acknowledging what previous Governments have done.
Don't worry Loach hates the Blair/Brown government as much as Tories.
Loach only has one speech he ever gives and two words which are interchangeable. When Labour are in power he attacks 'The Rich'. When the Tories are in Power he attacks 'The Government'. Apart from that he has been boring us with the same left wing rubbish for the last 30 years or more.
Which is why he such a natural fit with Corbyn.
He is a good film maker. Kes remains one of the outstanding British films.
But he belongs to the Ken Livingstone wing when it comes to topics such as anti-Semitism.
A brilliant creative talent can still be a shit when it comes to non-creative matters.
Broadly the Trent-Severn line. I agree. Wales should not be included however as it's a separate country within the UK.
You could argue that the Trent at Nottingham is the hard border between north and south. Notts County FC in the Meadows and fully part of the English north. Forest in hardcore Remainer Tory Rushcliffe and the first club in the English south.
My son is at Nottingham University and we went to visit him up there a few weeks back,. It was the North, no doubt :-) Mansfield is the grim North.
I lived in Nottingham for years. Never felt like the north to me. The architecture, the light, the landscape, the voices were all, well, not northern. It feel churlish to complain of living too far south when it's only 50 miles south of my home town, but that's how it was. Though I agree once you're south of the Trent it feels significantly more southern.
And Mansfield is grim, but grim does not necessarily equal northern.
Chesterfield, however, does feel northern, to me, just about.
Mansfield is Northern, and grim in parts. But there are far grimmer parts of Derby and London!
Interesting place - cut off the railways completely from 1970 to about 2000. 75k people and no railway station.
We are working on it. One of the advantages of Mansfield is that a couple of people in their 20s can start up a 6000 sqft gym for around 20k. Try that in Southam.
Full of leave voters as well no doubt. Despite the shed loads of EU Regional Development money that have gone into the area.
I think we had about 6 local contiguous constituencies at 70% leave or very close.
Interested to see some numbers on the Euro funding, as to me this never seems to amount to a hill of beans.
Broadly the Trent-Severn line. I agree. Wales should not be included however as it's a separate country within the UK.
You could argue that the Trent at Nottingham is the hard border between north and south. Notts County FC in the Meadows and fully part of the English north. Forest in hardcore Remainer Tory Rushcliffe and the first club in the English south.
My son is at Nottingham University and we went to visit him up there a few weeks back,. It was the North, no doubt :-) Mansfield is the grim North.
I lived in Nottingham for years. Never felt like the north to me. The architecture, the light, the landscape, the voices were all, well, not northern. It feel churlish to complain of living too far south when it's only 50 miles south of my home town, but that's how it was. Though I agree once you're south of the Trent it feels significantly more southern.
And Mansfield is grim, but grim does not necessarily equal northern.
Chesterfield, however, does feel northern, to me, just about.
Mansfield is Northern, and grim in parts. But there are far grimmer parts of Derby and London!
Interesting place - cut off the railways completely from 1970 to about 2000. 75k people and no railway station.
We are working on it. One of the advantages of Mansfield is that a couple of people in their 20s can start up a 6000 sqft gym for around 20k. Try that in Southam.
Full of leave voters as well no doubt. Despite the shed loads of EU Regional Development money that have gone into the area.
But the UK as a whole is a net contributor to EU coffers!
Yes, but one of things that annoyed me about the Remain campaign is they should have highlighted the regional investment from EU that has gone into all these "forgotten" places in UK.
I am absolutely certain that this investment would not have happened without EU, which for all its faults, actually gave a stuff about former coal mining towns etc. Our highly centralised, London, westminster obsessed political class would never have delivered and they won't now we are leaving.
Broadly the Trent-Severn line. I agree. Wales should not be included however as it's a separate country within the UK.
You could argue that the Trent at Nottingham is the hard border between north and south. Notts County FC in the Meadows and fully part of the English north. Forest in hardcore Remainer Tory Rushcliffe and the first club in the English south.
My son is at Nottingham University and we went to visit him up there a few weeks back,. It was the North, no doubt :-) Mansfield is the grim North.
No, Nottingham is in the Midlands, not the north or south. The north/south divide is a ridiculous concept because it excludes 10 million people who identify as Midlanders.
If Nottingham is the north then I'm a duck.
Take Sutton Coldfield for example. Definitely not in the north. Definitely not in the south. The same is true for places like Tamworth, Nuneaton, Burton-on-Trent, Leicester, etc.
You don't have to convince me. They are in the Midlands.
Broadly the Trent-Severn line. I agree. Wales should not be included however as it's a separate country within the UK.
You could argue that the Trent at Nottingham is the hard border between north and south. Notts County FC in the Meadows and fully part of the English north. Forest in hardcore Remainer Tory Rushcliffe and the first club in the English south.
My son is at Nottingham University and we went to visit him up there a few weeks back,. It was the North, no doubt :-) Mansfield is the grim North.
I lived in Nottingham for years. Never felt like the north to me. The architecture, the light, the landscape, the voices were all, well, not northern. It feel churlish to complain of living too far south when it's only 50 miles south of my home town, but that's how it was. Though I agree once you're south of the Trent it feels significantly more southern.
And Mansfield is grim, but grim does not necessarily equal northern.
Chesterfield, however, does feel northern, to me, just about.
Mansfield is Northern, and grim in parts. But there are far grimmer parts of Derby and London!
Interesting place - cut off the railways completely from 1970 to about 2000. 75k people and no railway station.
We are working on it. One of the advantages of Mansfield is that a couple of people in their 20s can start up a 6000 sqft gym for around 20k. Try that in Southam.
Full of leave voters as well no doubt. Despite the shed loads of EU Regional Development money that have gone into the area.
I think we had about 6 local contiguous constituencies at 70% leave or very close.
Interested to see some numbers on the Euro funding, as to me this never seems to amount to a hill of beans.
Broadly the Trent-Severn line. I agree. Wales should not be included however as it's a separate country within the UK.
You could argue that the Trent at Nottingham is the hard border between north and south. Notts County FC in the Meadows and fully part of the English north. Forest in hardcore Remainer Tory Rushcliffe and the first club in the English south.
My son is at Nottingham University and we went to visit him up there a few weeks back,. It was the North, no doubt :-) Mansfield is the grim North.
I lived in Nottingham for years. Never felt like the north to me. The architecture, the light, the landscape, the voices were all, well, not northern. It feel churlish to complain of living too far south when it's only 50 miles south of my home town, but that's how it was. Though I agree once you're south of the Trent it feels significantly more southern.
And Mansfield is grim, but grim does not necessarily equal northern.
Chesterfield, however, does feel northern, to me, just about.
Mansfield is Northern, and grim in parts. But there are far grimmer parts of Derby and London!
Interesting place - cut off the railways completely from 1970 to about 2000. 75k people and no railway station.
We are working on it. One of the advantages of Mansfield is that a couple of people in their 20s can start up a 6000 sqft gym for around 20k. Try that in Southam.
Full of leave voters as well no doubt. Despite the shed loads of EU Regional Development money that have gone into the area.
But the UK as a whole is a net contributor to EU coffers!
Yes, but one of things that annoyed me about the Remain campaign is they should have highlighted the regional investment from EU that has gone into all these "forgotten" places in UK.
I am absolutely certain that this investment would not have happened without EU, which for all its faults, actually gave a stuff about former coal mining towns etc. Our highly centralised, London, westminster obsessed political class would never have delivered and they won't now we are leaving.
I really would like to see some numbers about that.
When the Gadarene Remoniacs were rabbiting on about how ungrateful Wales was being I still couldn't find any records of funding anywhere near the amounts the Irish received.
Broadly the Trent-Severn line. I agree. Wales should not be included however as it's a separate country within the UK.
You could argue that the Trent at Nottingham is the hard border between north and south. Notts County FC in the Meadows and fully part of the English north. Forest in hardcore Remainer Tory Rushcliffe and the first club in the English south.
My son is at Nottingham University and we went to visit him up there a few weeks back,. It was the North, no doubt :-) Mansfield is the grim North.
I lived in Nottingham for years. Never felt like the north to me. The architecture, the light, the landscape, the voices were all, well, not northern. It feel churlish to complain of living too far south when it's only 50 miles south of my home town, but that's how it was. Though I agree once you're south of the Trent it feels significantly more southern.
And Mansfield is grim, but grim does not necessarily equal northern.
Chesterfield, however, does feel northern, to me, just about.
Mansfield is Northern, and grim in parts. But there are far grimmer parts of Derby and London!
Interesting place - cut off the railways completely from 1970 to about 2000. 75k people an sqft gym for around 20k. Try that in Southam.
Full of leave voters as well no doubt. Despite the shed loads of EU Regional Development money that have gone into the area.
But the UK as a whole is a net contributor to EU coffers!
Yes, but one of things that annoyed me about the Remain campaign is they should have highlighted the regional investment from EU that has gone into all these "forgotten" places in UK.
I am absolutely certain that this investment would not have happened without EU, which for all its faults, actually gave a stuff about former coal mining towns etc. Our highly centralised, London, westminster obsessed political class would never have delivered and they won't now we are leaving.
I really would like to see some numbers about that.
When Gadarene Remoniacs were rabbiting on about how ungrateful Wales was being I still couldn't find any records of funding anywhere near the amounts the Irish received.
Is it true that (effectively) Blighty subsidises Irish membership of the EU?
Another gem from Iceland is that until 1983 there was no TV in July and it was not shown on Thursdays until 1987!
I visited Finland twice in mid 1980s. There was no TV there on Thursday either.
It was explained to me that it was the evening when everyone went out and did community stuff, sports and so on. Seemed quite a brilliant idea to me at the time, but no use in Internet era.
Broadly the Trent-Severn line. I agree. Wales should not be included however as it's a separate country within the UK.
You could argue that the Trent at Nottingham is the hard border between north and south. Notts County FC in the Meadows and fully part of the English north. Forest in hardcore Remainer Tory Rushcliffe and the first club in the English south.
My son is at Nottingham University and we went to visit him up there a few weeks back,. It was the North, no doubt :-) Mansfield is the grim North.
And Mansfield is grim, but grim does not necessarily equal northern.
Chesterfield, however, does feel northern, to me, just about.
Mansfield is Northern, and grim in parts. But there are far grimmer parts of Derby and London!
Interesting place - cut off the railways completely from 1970 to about 2000. 75k people an sqft gym for around 20k. Try that in Southam.
Full of leave voters as well no doubt. Despite the shed loads of EU Regional Development money that have gone into the area.
But the UK as a whole is a net contributor to EU coffers!
Yes, but one of things that annoyed me about the Remain campaign is they should have highlighted the regional investment from EU that has gone into all these "forgotten" places in UK.
I am absolutely certain that this investment would not have happened without EU, which for all its faults, actually gave a stuff about former coal mining towns etc. Our highly centralised, London, westminster obsessed political class would never have delivered and they won't now we are leaving.
I really would like to see some numbers about that.
When Gadarene Remoniacs were rabbiting on about how ungrateful Wales was being I still couldn't find any records of funding anywhere near the amounts the Irish received.
Is it true that (effectively) Blighty subsidises Irish membership of the EU?
@Rottenborough will be supplying numbers in a couple of minutes :-o
Broadly the Trent-Severn line. I agree. Wales should not be included however as it's a separate country within the UK.
You could argue that the Trent at Nottingham is the hard border between north and south. Notts County FC in the Meadows and fully part of the English north. Forest in hardcore Remainer Tory Rushcliffe and the first club in the English south.
My son is at Nottingham University and we went to visit him up there a few weeks back,. It was the North, no doubt :-) Mansfield is the grim North.
No, Nottingham is in the Midlands, not the north or south. The north/south divide is a ridiculous concept because it excludes 10 million people who identify as Midlanders.
If Nottingham is the north then I'm a duck.
Take Sutton Coldfield for example. Definitely not in the north. Definitely not in the south. The same is true for places like Tamworth, Nuneaton, Burton-on-Trent, Leicester, etc.
You don't have to convince me. They are in the Midlands.
What would be the consensus agreement on cultural characteristics that define the Midlands as opposed to being North or South?
"North Korean leader Kim Jong-Un's half-brother 'assassinated by poisoned needles': Kim Jong-Un's half-brother was murdered by two female North Korean agents at Kuala Lumpur Airport, according to reports."
Broadly the Trent-Severn line. I agree. Wales should not be included however as it's a separate country within the UK.
You could argue that the Trent at Nottingham is the hard border between north and south. Notts County FC in the Meadows and fully part of the English north. Forest in hardcore Remainer Tory Rushcliffe and the first club in the English south.
My son is at Nottingham University and we went to visit him up there a few weeks back,. It was the North, no doubt :-) Mansfield is the grim North.
No, Nottingham is in the Midlands, not the north or south. The north/south divide is a ridiculous concept because it excludes 10 million people who identify as Midlanders.
If Nottingham is the north then I'm a duck.
Take Sutton Coldfield for example. Definitely not in the north. Definitely not in the south. The same is true for places like Tamworth, Nuneaton, Burton-on-Trent, Leicester, etc.
You don't have to convince me. They are in the Midlands.
What would be the consensus agreement on cultural characteristics that define the Midlands as opposed to being North or South?
Tolerance in living next door to Northeners and Southerners.
Over many years I travelled from my birth place in the north to my workplace in the south. Crossing the Trent near Newark was always the defining point - the two sides smelt different ( I think it was the coal mines).
very interesting - but not sure Ireland is an irreligious, protestant country. And I'd put Iceland in the vodka belt. Beer was only legalised in 1988!
I remember having a chat with Our Man In Reykjavik, probably 1980. He reckoned that there was a huge tax on booze that went to a Temperance League. Still, this was offset by one huge benefit that Iceland had over coming home to England: "No bloody dog shit...."
On topic, the poor people of Stoke-upon-Trent Central, what an Earth have they done to deserve not one but two complete bell ends as candidates.
A pedant writes: Stoke-ON-Trent Central. Stoke-UPON-Trent is one of the six towns which make up the larger conurbation of Stoke-ON-Trent (after which the city council and the constituencies are named). These exclude Newcastle-under-Lyme. 'The Potteries' is a term often used to Stoke-on-Trent + Newcastle (although I'm not sure how accurately; I'm not sure whether the pottery industry extended to Newcastle).
There is similar pedantic fun to be had around distinguishing the town of Stratford-upon-Avon and the borough of Stratford-on-Avon. (Or maybe the other way around?)
As a South Londoner I completely agree with that, except that I'd swap "London" and "Here Be Dragons"
My father was born just to the East of the City of London and when he and his new wife were re-housed after the war (having been bombed out) it was to Battersea and then Wandsworth. In his later years he told me that moving South of the River was the hardest thing he had ever done. To his dying day he maintained that the North began at the Clerkenwell Road.
I have never been quite such a London extremist but I swear if you blindfold a London born person and drop them into North or South London they will be able to tell you which side of the river they are on within thirty seconds of having the blindfold removed.
It's not really true now but the old London accents were so distinctive that once upon a time you wouldn't have had to remove the blindfold.
Yep - There was definitely a distinctive North and South London accent back in the day - north London was slower and the words stretched a little bit. You can still hear the East End one among some older people if you listen carefully. The r becomes a w in the middle of words - vewy, alwight etc.
Yeah back in the day when Pete Beale was in EastEnders!
On topic, the poor people of Stoke-upon-Trent Central, what an Earth have they done to deserve not one but two complete bell ends as candidates.
A pedant writes: Stoke-ON-Trent Central. Stoke-UPON-Trent is one of the six towns which make up the larger conurbation of Stoke-ON-Trent (after which the city council and the constituencies are named). These exclude Newcastle-under-Lyme. 'The Potteries' is a term often used to Stoke-on-Trent + Newcastle (although I'm not sure how accurately; I'm not sure whether the pottery industry extended to Newcastle).
There is similar pedantic fun to be had around distinguishing the town of Stratford-upon-Avon and the borough of Stratford-on-Avon. (Or maybe the other way around?)
If you trust Betfair prices and think UKIP have less than 40% chance of coming 2nd in Stoke you could sell them w SPIN at 14.5,although I am sure you all worked that out yourself following my idiots guide
On topic, the poor people of Stoke-upon-Trent Central, what an Earth have they done to deserve not one but two complete bell ends as candidates.
A pedant writes: Stoke-ON-Trent Central. Stoke-UPON-Trent is one of the six towns which make up the larger conurbation of Stoke-ON-Trent (after which the city council and the constituencies are named). These exclude Newcastle-under-Lyme. 'The Potteries' is a term often used to Stoke-on-Trent + Newcastle (although I'm not sure how accurately; I'm not sure whether the pottery industry extended to Newcastle).
There is similar pedantic fun to be had around distinguishing the town of Stratford-upon-Avon and the borough of Stratford-on-Avon. (Or maybe the other way around?)
It is also Newark-Upon-Trent although there is no comparable district in that case.
Broadly the Trent-Severn line. I agree. Wales should not be included however as it's a separate country within the UK.
You could argue that the Trent at Nottingham is the hard border between north and south. Notts County FC in the Meadows and fully part of the English north. Forest in hardcore Remainer Tory Rushcliffe and the first club in the English south.
My son is at Nottingham University and we went to visit him up there a few weeks back,. It was the North, no doubt :-) Mansfield is the grim North.
No, Nottingham is in the Midlands, not the north or south. The north/south divide is a ridiculous concept because it excludes 10 million people who identify as Midlanders.
If Nottingham is the north then I'm a duck.
Take Sutton Coldfield for example. Definitely not in the north. Definitely not in the south. The same is true for places like Tamworth, Nuneaton, Burton-on-Trent, Leicester, etc.
You don't have to convince me. They are in the Midlands.
What would be the consensus agreement on cultural characteristics that define the Midlands as opposed to being North or South?
Tolerance in living next door to Northeners and Southerners.
I'd say these things are self-defining - if people say they're living in the Midlands, they probably are.
- Internment without trial was imposed in a part of the United Kingdom. - Trial by jury was suspended in a part of the United Kingdom. - The British Government was found guilty by an international court of having committed acts against detainees which were one level below actual torture. - People travelling to and from Ireland were subject to increased checks. - The English police and judicial systems disgraced themselves in a series of miscarriages of justice which took far far too long to correct. - Innocent people were beaten up in prison and by the police - And Lord Denning blotted his copybook by coming out with a judgment which showed that he valued the reputation of the authorities above justice for individuals. - Irish people and Irish Catholics were not exactly popular in mainland Britain during the Troubles.
What point precisely was this Twitter user seeking to make?
Quite right that he should be suspended. No serious political party should tolerate such appalling syntax.
And organised with a z.
Disgusting.
And multiple exclamation marks. And also, it's really hard to understand what he's on about. It just doesn't make sense. As Alastair says, I'm starting to wonder whether this isn't in fact a spoof.
Broadly the Trent-Severn line. I agree. Wales should not be included however as it's a separate country within the UK.
You could argue that the Trent at Nottingham is the hard border between north and south. Notts County FC in the Meadows and fully part of the English north. Forest in hardcore Remainer Tory Rushcliffe and the first club in the English south.
My son is at Nottingham University and we went to visit him up there a few weeks back,. It was the North, no doubt :-) Mansfield is the grim North.
No, Nottingham is in the Midlands, not the north or south. The north/south divide is a ridiculous concept because it excludes 10 million people who identify as Midlanders.
If Nottingham is the north then I'm a duck.
Take Sutton Coldfield for example. Definitely not in the north. Definitely not in the south. The same is true for places like Tamworth, Nuneaton, Burton-on-Trent, Leicester, etc.
You don't have to convince me. They are in the Midlands.
What would be the consensus agreement on cultural characteristics that define the Midlands as opposed to being North or South?
Tolerance in living next door to Northeners and Southerners.
The distant shadow of Mercia as contrasted with Wessex and Northumbria, flickering still despite the intervening centuries?
Quite right that he should be suspended. No serious political party should tolerate such appalling syntax.
And organised with a z.
Disgusting.
And multiple exclamation marks. And also, it's really hard to understand what he's on about. It just doesn't make sense. As Alastair says, I'm starting to wonder whether this isn't in fact a spoof.
If you trust Betfair prices and think UKIP have less than 40% chance of coming 2nd in Stoke you could sell them w SPIN at 14.5,although I am sure you all worked that out yourself following my idiots guide
Buying Labour at 12.5 (Advised by Meeks) in Copeland looks like an absolute rick.
... - Irish people and Irish Catholics were not exactly popular in mainland Britain during the Troubles...
I take your other points, but I disagree strongly on that one. I was astonished at the lack of hostility towards the Irish during the period of the IRA atrocities. It was really quite remarkable.
If you trust Betfair prices and think UKIP have less than 40% chance of coming 2nd in Stoke you could sell them w SPIN at 14.5,although I am sure you all worked that out yourself following my idiots guide
Buying Labour at 12.5 (Advised by Meeks) in Copeland looks like an absolute rick.
Well the win part is only worth 5.75 on Betfair. You think they are 70% to finish 2nd?
Its 13.5 to buy now... off Betfair its prob more of a sell!
Broadly the Trent-Severn line. I agree. Wales should not be included however as it's a separate country within the UK.
You could argue that the Trent at Nottingham is the hard border between north and south. Notts County FC in the Meadows and fully part of the English north. Forest in hardcore Remainer Tory Rushcliffe and the first club in the English south.
My son is at Nottingham University and we went to visit him up there a few weeks back,. It was the North, no doubt :-) Mansfield is the grim North.
No, Nottingham is in the Midlands, not the north or south. The north/south divide is a ridiculous concept because it excludes 10 million people who identify as Midlanders.
If Nottingham is the north then I'm a duck.
Take Sutton Coldfield for example. Definitely not in the north. Definitely not in the south. The same is true for places like Tamworth, Nuneaton, Burton-on-Trent, Leicester, etc.
You don't have to convince me. They are in the Midlands.
What would be the consensus agreement on cultural characteristics that define the Midlands as opposed to being North or South?
Tolerance in living next door to Northeners and Southerners.
The distant shadow of Mercia as contrasted with Wessex and Northumbria, flickering still despite the intervening centuries?
Indeed.
Let Parliament move to Tamworth.
We will have expenses scandals at the Snowdome and mistresses stashed at Centreparks.
... - Irish people and Irish Catholics were not exactly popular in mainland Britain during the Troubles...
I take your other points, but I disagree strongly on that one. I was astonished at the lack of hostility towards the Irish during the period of the IRA atrocities. It was really quite remarkable.
Similar to the response to ETA I suppose. Most people's reaction to domestic terrorism is stoic bemusement.
First to show a left majority, too. What will the Express et al make of it if Angela is toppled from the left? Fortunately, there is a word...schadenfreude.
Second poll giving SPD the lead but taken mainly before new scandal on Schulz spending I think and the combined left parties still under 50%. It of course still makes zero difference to Brexit which of Schulz or Merkel is Chancellor given May's commitment to controlling free movement and leaving the single market, the only party who would make a difference are the AfD who are still third
Broadly the Trent-Severn line. I agree. Wales should not be included however as it's a separate country within the UK.
You could argue that the Trent at Nottingham is the hard border between north and south. Notts County FC in the Meadows and fully part of the English north. Forest in hardcore Remainer Tory Rushcliffe and the first club in the English south.
My son is at Nottingham University and we went to visit him up there a few weeks back,. It was the North, no doubt :-) Mansfield is the grim North.
No, Nottingham is in the Midlands, not the north or south. The north/south divide is a ridiculous concept because it excludes 10 million people who identify as Midlanders.
If Nottingham is the north then I'm a duck.
Take Sutton Coldfield for example. Definitely not in the north. Definitely not in the south. The same is true for places like Tamworth, Nuneaton, Burton-on-Trent, Leicester, etc.
You don't have to convince me. They are in the Midlands.
What would be the consensus agreement on cultural characteristics that define the Midlands as opposed to being North or South?
Tolerance in living next door to Northeners and Southerners.
The distant shadow of Mercia as contrasted with Wessex and Northumbria, flickering still despite the intervening centuries?
Except Derby. Everybody can still unite in hating Derby.....
- Internment without trial was imposed in a part of the United Kingdom. - Trial by jury was suspended in a part of the United Kingdom. - The British Government was found guilty by an international court of having committed acts against detainees which were one level below actual torture. - People travelling to and from Ireland were subject to increased checks. - The English police and judicial systems disgraced themselves in a series of miscarriages of justice which took far far too long to correct. - Innocent people were beaten up in prison and by the police - And Lord Denning blotted his copybook by coming out with a judgment which showed that he valued the reputation of the authorities above justice for individuals. - Irish people and Irish Catholics were not exactly popular in mainland Britain during the Troubles.
What point precisely was this Twitter user seeking to make?
I suspect that we are better than Trump and the deplorables.
Comments
(Sunil hugs his trusty Baker Atlas).
There are some strange residents in that part of the world.
Historically it is also the boundary between the South and the North. That is codified in laws and descriptions in Roman, Medieval, Tudor and Stuart times.
I've been to Hertford East and Cheshunt
Interesting place - cut off the railways completely from 1970 to about 2000. 75k people and no railway station.
We are working on it. One of the advantages of Mansfield is that a couple of people in their 20s can start up a 6000 sqft gym for under 50k. Try that in Southam.
I am in Manchester. I moved South to get here. I have always felt that "The Midlands" where a bit too far down the map...
Everything except the yellow labelled "UK".
The yellow labelled "Metrotosser Central".
Yes, I did live in Camden for several years.
[Sunil peruses his Baker Atlas]
Now... where was I...?
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-31622038
Another gem from Iceland is that until 1983 there was no TV in July and it was not shown on Thursdays until 1987!
It was explained to me that it was the evening when everyone went out and did community stuff, sports and so on. Seemed quite a brilliant idea to me at the time, but no use in Internet era.
I suppose losing to the Liberals would be preferable to UKIP, both for Labour, the MSM, and a terrified HoC.
https://twitter.com/TSEofPB/status/831543180902461440
http://www.newstatesman.com/politics/elections/2017/02/will-labour-lose-stoke
My money is on Libs however, based on the very low turn out, weird swing kind of theory.
I am not sure that the difference in accents you describe were really about North and South of the River as between the lands to the East of the City, but still North of the River (so not North London) and everywhere else.
My uncle Bill, born in Shoreditch, died in Shoreditch and, only left it apart from holidays, for the war, had the verbal traits that Mr. Observer describes (along with a lot of others). However, my brother in law, born in Islington (long before it became trendy) and lived there most of his life did not. In fact the differnece in accents between the two were quite remarkable.
But he belongs to the Ken Livingstone wing when it comes to topics such as anti-Semitism.
A brilliant creative talent can still be a shit when it comes to non-creative matters.
Interested to see some numbers on the Euro funding, as to me this never seems to amount to a hill of beans.
According to the Mirror (I know) the East Midlands received £13.50 per person per year in the period 2007-2013.
http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/revealed-how-much-eu-funding-7789224
http://www.runningreality.org/?gclid=CPScntD9j9ICFS6T7Qodlg8IqA#01/01/1996&14.66833,-93.18097&zoom=4
I am absolutely certain that this investment would not have happened without EU, which for all its faults, actually gave a stuff about former coal mining towns etc. Our highly centralised, London, westminster obsessed political class would never have delivered and they won't now we are leaving.
When the Gadarene Remoniacs were rabbiting on about how ungrateful Wales was being I still couldn't find any records of funding anywhere near the amounts the Irish received.
I knew Stoke was a bit grim, but even so....
Radical or what?
Have you done the Robin Hood line, yet?
https://twitter.com/Unnamedinsider/status/830575797933060096
"North Korean leader Kim Jong-Un's half-brother 'assassinated by poisoned needles':
Kim Jong-Un's half-brother was murdered by two female North Korean agents at Kuala Lumpur Airport, according to reports."
http://news.sky.com/story/north-korean-leader-kim-jong-uns-half-brother-assassinated-by-poisoned-needles-10767631
There is similar pedantic fun to be had around distinguishing the town of Stratford-upon-Avon and the borough of Stratford-on-Avon. (Or maybe the other way around?)
http://www.nst.com.my/news/2017/02/212471/someone-swabbed-my-face-kim-jong-nam-complained-feeling-dizzy-prior-death
https://twitter.com/glosgazette/status/831542465756753920
Mind you I used the same sort of arguments to fight against ID cards under Blair.
Disgusting.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/newsbysector/retailandconsumer/12033580/Mapped-the-spread-of-coffee-shops-across-the-UK.html
- Internment without trial was imposed in a part of the United Kingdom.
- Trial by jury was suspended in a part of the United Kingdom.
- The British Government was found guilty by an international court of having committed acts against detainees which were one level below actual torture.
- People travelling to and from Ireland were subject to increased checks.
- The English police and judicial systems disgraced themselves in a series of miscarriages of justice which took far far too long to correct.
- Innocent people were beaten up in prison and by the police
- And Lord Denning blotted his copybook by coming out with a judgment which showed that he valued the reputation of the authorities above justice for individuals.
- Irish people and Irish Catholics were not exactly popular in mainland Britain during the Troubles.
What point precisely was this Twitter user seeking to make?
And also, it's really hard to understand what he's on about. It just doesn't make sense.
As Alastair says, I'm starting to wonder whether this isn't in fact a spoof.
Its 13.5 to buy now... off Betfair its prob more of a sell!
Let Parliament move to Tamworth.
We will have expenses scandals at the Snowdome and mistresses stashed at Centreparks.