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politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Betfair has Tories as 69% chance of taking Copeland – but reme

SystemSystem Posts: 11,689
edited February 2017 in General

imagepoliticalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Betfair has Tories as 69% chance of taking Copeland – but remember Richmond Park

It has become widely accepted since the EU referendum and the White House Race that the polls and the betting might not be as good a guide to political outcomes as some might hope.

Read the full story here


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Comments

  • Options
    JohnLoonyJohnLoony Posts: 1,790
    Michael Flynn has resigned as White House national security adviser.
    Is he the same Mr Flynn who was asked to assist the discourteous people in Galloway in 1997?
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    RobDRobD Posts: 58,979
    Second :smiley:
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    williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 48,082
    Notorious third.
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    Fourth! Like SLibDem.....
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    Is there any evidence in the form of the size or number of bets being placed?

    IIRC Leave had lots of small bets, while Remain had fewer large ones which 'skewed' the odds?
  • Options
    Joyous & Civic. Nats respond to a voice they tried and failed to silence:

    https://twitter.com/JournoStephen/status/831278213649354753
  • Options
    JohnLoony said:

    Michael Flynn has resigned as White House national security adviser.
    Is he the same Mr Flynn who was asked to assist the discourteous people in Galloway in 1997?

    @johncleese: America's top security adviser lasts a yuge three weeks !

    Trump expert Piers Morgan advises "Get used to it" Exactly...
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    So to 'Alternative Facts' we can add 'Incomplete Information'......

    http://www.vanityfair.com/news/2017/02/michael-flynn-resigns?mbid=social_twitter
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    AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    edited February 2017
    JohnLoony said:

    Michael Flynn has resigned as White House national security adviser.
    Is he the same Mr Flynn who was asked to assist the discourteous people in Galloway in 1997?

    James McGuire Smith may know the answer.

    http://www.heraldscotland.com/news/12322786.Mr_Smith_steals_the_TV_show/
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    AlsoIndigoAlsoIndigo Posts: 1,852

    So to 'Alternative Facts' we can add 'Incomplete Information'......

    http://www.vanityfair.com/news/2017/02/michael-flynn-resigns?mbid=social_twitter

    Its American for "terminological inexactitude" ;)
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    surbitonsurbiton Posts: 13,549
    What is the relationship between Trump and Russia and why ?

    Impeachment this year ?
  • Options
    kle4kle4 Posts: 91,820
    isam said:

    Pulpstar said:

    RobD said:



    Would be interested if @rcs is about, to know whether PB has had similar affliction.

    Not to answer for RCS, but yes we have had them Russian based shills on here.
    I dimly recall some short-lived characters in the past. No idea what the point is - I don't think most of PB's "serious" audience reads below the line.
    I honestly don't know, but we also had the same running up to POTUS election with a particularly prolific Clinton supporter. I think they changed zero minds about who they would prefer for POTUS and of course AFAIK none of the regulars on here even have a vote.
    @619... dearly missed.
    Poor guy / girl...all that effort for nought.
    It was IOS I felt sorry for.

    He genuinely thought Labour's ground game was so awesome that it was going to lead to Ed winning a majority.
    I don't get why he stopped posting after May 2015. It's no crime to make wrong calls in life.
    Hasnt stopped the people who said the awesome artillery Dave and George were going to produce for Remain would hammer Leave into a pulp from carrying on as if they never said it
    That's in the finest traditions of political commentary. Never let being wrong slow you down.

    How rude you are before proven wrong is key I think, it's less embarrassing en to admit being wrong. Or you can just react to everything in the exact same way, with no acknowledgement, which as you say is a tactic some use. It's particularly amusing when people are mockingly dismissive about outcomes in an identical way to when the mockingly dismissed something else, which then happened.
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    nunununu Posts: 6,024
    surbiton said:

    What is the relationship between Trump and Russia and why ?

    Impeachment this year ?

    Impeachment is what CIA are aiming for. Remember they have never been neutral.
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    kle4kle4 Posts: 91,820

    Joyous & Civic. Nats respond to a voice they tried and failed to silence:

    hts://twitter.com/JournoStephen/status/831278213649354753

    I know all sides have idiots, but it's still depressing to see.
  • Options
    kle4kle4 Posts: 91,820
    isam said:

    Pulpstar said:

    RobD said:



    Would be interested if @rcs is about, to know whether PB has had similar affliction.

    Not to answer for RCS, but yes we have had them Russian based shills on here.
    I dimly recall some short-lived characters in the past. No idea what the point is - I don't think most of PB's "serious" audience reads below the line.
    I honestly don't know, but we also had the same running up to POTUS election with a particularly prolific Clinton supporter. I think they changed zero minds about who they would prefer for POTUS and of course AFAIK none of the regulars on here even have a vote.
    @619... dearly missed.
    Poor guy / girl...all that effort for nought.
    It was IOS I felt sorry for.

    He genuinely thought Labour's ground game was so awesome that it was going to lead to Ed winning a majority.
    I don't get why he stopped posting after May 2015. It's no crime to make wrong calls in life.
    Hasnt stopped the people who said the awesome artillery Dave and George were going to produce for Remain would hammer Leave into a pulp from carrying on as if they never said it
    That's in the finest traditions of political commentary. Never let being wrong slow you down.

    How rude you are before proven wrong is key I think, it's less embarrassing en to admit being wrong. Or you can just react to everything in the exact same way, with no acknowledgement, which as you say is a tactic some use. It's particularly amusing when people are mockingly dismissive about outcomes in an identical way to when the mockingly dismissed something else, which then happened.
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    kle4kle4 Posts: 91,820
    Remember Richmond park - in the sense of expected winner being called wrong not a LD win I presume, given even less chatter on that front.
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    nunununu Posts: 6,024
    Hopefully Trump survives until midterms Dems need him in place to win back Congress.
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    AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    Stoke-on-Trent is roughly half-way between Richmond Park and Copeland.
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    I'm taking no chances with Stoke. Although unlikely, both candidates and parties have significant weaknesses and repel in equal measure.

    I could see a weird result there.
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    OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 32,008

    I'm taking no chances with Stoke. Although unlikely, both candidates and parties have significant weaknesses and repel in equal measure.

    I could see a weird result there.

    LibDem gain?
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    ydoethurydoethur Posts: 67,303

    I'm taking no chances with Stoke. Although unlikely, both candidates and parties have significant weaknesses and repel in equal measure.

    I could see a weird result there.

    Is the Official Monster Raving Loony Party standing or did they decide with Nuttall on the list and another party led by Jeremy Corbyn that the fruitcakes were amply represented anyway?
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    OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 32,008
    ydoethur said:

    I'm taking no chances with Stoke. Although unlikely, both candidates and parties have significant weaknesses and repel in equal measure.

    I could see a weird result there.

    Is the Official Monster Raving Loony Party standing or did they decide with Nuttall on the list and another party led by Jeremy Corbyn that the fruitcakes were amply represented anyway?
    You have cheered up, haven’t you! Half-term?
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    DavidLDavidL Posts: 51,329
    ydoethur said:

    I'm taking no chances with Stoke. Although unlikely, both candidates and parties have significant weaknesses and repel in equal measure.

    I could see a weird result there.

    Is the Official Monster Raving Loony Party standing or did they decide with Nuttall on the list and another party led by Jeremy Corbyn that the fruitcakes were amply represented anyway?
    There is no doubt that the OMRLP have suffered from a classic squeeze in recent times. In such a field standing out as daft is genuinely difficult.
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    Is there any evidence in the form of the size or number of bets being placed?

    IIRC Leave had lots of small bets, while Remain had fewer large ones which 'skewed' the odds?

    Either way, the difference is that in EUref, the punters (on both sides) were the same people as the voters so one bet = one vote. What we'd need to know here is the bets placed only by the good burghers of Copeland.
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    Sean_FSean_F Posts: 35,850
    DavidL said:

    ydoethur said:

    I'm taking no chances with Stoke. Although unlikely, both candidates and parties have significant weaknesses and repel in equal measure.

    I could see a weird result there.

    Is the Official Monster Raving Loony Party standing or did they decide with Nuttall on the list and another party led by Jeremy Corbyn that the fruitcakes were amply represented anyway?
    There is no doubt that the OMRLP have suffered from a classic squeeze in recent times. In such a field standing out as daft is genuinely difficult.
    They never recovered from the defection of Stuart Basil Fawlty Hughes to the Conservatives.
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    JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 39,045
    Off-topic:

    There have been rumours for a couple of weeks that the Trump administration is looking for a return to the Moon by 2020 (*).

    There seem to be three options:
    1) A slingshot around the moon (circumlunar trajectory).
    2) Orbit around the moon then return.
    3) A landing on the moon.

    Of these, NASA is planning an unmanned test of their new SLS rocket next year, which will fulfil the first two of these. However that version of the SLS is not the final one, and the next mission (manned) is not due to no earlier than 2021.

    The first mission is designed to test systems, including a faster reentry needed for return from the Moon. The second will be manned. But AFAIK no-one is designing a lunar lander, and that will be massively costly.

    Personally there seems to be little point in going there and not landing, especially from a science point of view. The US could design a manned lander in three or four years, at a rather large cost. Fortunately this time the US may have a choice of a couple of heavy-lift launchers.

    *If* they decide to do the brave thing. You know, to make America great again ... ;)

    (*) Naturally enough, before the next presidential election.
  • Options
    DavidLDavidL Posts: 51,329
    I am sticking with my unpatented "follow the leader" approach. The signs of a potential Tory majority in 2015 were there when Ed went to the Tories most marginal seat (which they didn't win) in the week before the election and Dave was spending his time in apparently safe Lib Dem territory like Twickenham.

    This week Corbyn goes to Stoke and May to Copeland. Labour expects to win the former and the Tories expect to win the latter. They may be wrong of course.
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    EssexitEssexit Posts: 1,956
    In his last blog post on the referendum, Cummings suggests that the betting markets may have been skewed by hedge funds. He doesn't have hard evidence, but points out the following:
    - Betting markets have become more important as a way of predicting results
    - He knows that some funds had private polling pointing to a Leave win
    - The amount of money required to skew markets and send false signals to rivals is small compared to the amounts to be made
    With all that in mind, why wouldn't they do it?
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    DavidLDavidL Posts: 51,329
    Sean_F said:

    DavidL said:

    ydoethur said:

    I'm taking no chances with Stoke. Although unlikely, both candidates and parties have significant weaknesses and repel in equal measure.

    I could see a weird result there.

    Is the Official Monster Raving Loony Party standing or did they decide with Nuttall on the list and another party led by Jeremy Corbyn that the fruitcakes were amply represented anyway?
    There is no doubt that the OMRLP have suffered from a classic squeeze in recent times. In such a field standing out as daft is genuinely difficult.
    They never recovered from the defection of Stuart Basil Fawlty Hughes to the Conservatives.
    Not to mention our very own John Loony.
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    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,930
    @Andyjs @MyBurningEars Fpt:

    I think that guy is a binary options system scammer.
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    MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 50,125
    I think the Tories win Copeland by a little over a thousand votes. National polling suggests that - Labour has a decent local candidate but with her leader trashing the nuclear industry cuts the ground from under her.

    Stoke - who knows. Labour getting its vote out is the imponderable. I had assumed an easy hold, but their candidate is a complete prat. Really, Westminster has already exceeded its quota. But is Nuttall any better? Tragic that the Bus Pass Elvis Party is no longer around in our hour of need....
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    ydoethurydoethur Posts: 67,303

    ydoethur said:

    I'm taking no chances with Stoke. Although unlikely, both candidates and parties have significant weaknesses and repel in equal measure.

    I could see a weird result there.

    Is the Official Monster Raving Loony Party standing or did they decide with Nuttall on the list and another party led by Jeremy Corbyn that the fruitcakes were amply represented anyway?
    You have cheered up, haven’t you! Half-term?
    Not yet, alas! But it is always good to have the sword of Damocles removed.
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    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,930
    The price for the Tories in Cope land is crackers
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    I'm taking no chances with Stoke. Although unlikely, both candidates and parties have significant weaknesses and repel in equal measure.

    I could see a weird result there.

    LibDem gain?
    Unlikely but not impossible. Certainly not 60/1.

    If I were Farron I'd be focusing on Stoke and playing the plague on both your houses card. Trouble is he will probably repel Leavers too much, and by design.
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    Pulpstar said:

    The price for the Tories in Cope land is crackers

    I topped up on Labour this morning.
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    OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 32,008
    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    I'm taking no chances with Stoke. Although unlikely, both candidates and parties have significant weaknesses and repel in equal measure.

    I could see a weird result there.

    Is the Official Monster Raving Loony Party standing or did they decide with Nuttall on the list and another party led by Jeremy Corbyn that the fruitcakes were amply represented anyway?
    You have cheered up, haven’t you! Half-term?
    Not yet, alas! But it is always good to have the sword of Damocles removed.
    Indeed. Our eldest granddaughter teaches somewhere where they’ve done away with the February half term, but the Spring term ends in early March. Two weeks off, then they run towards the public exams, broken only by the Bank Holidays. Seems strange to hear her, as a teacher, talking about an overseas holiday in March. Significantly cheaper than the conventional Easter, of course.
  • Options
    ydoethurydoethur Posts: 67,303

    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    I'm taking no chances with Stoke. Although unlikely, both candidates and parties have significant weaknesses and repel in equal measure.

    I could see a weird result there.

    Is the Official Monster Raving Loony Party standing or did they decide with Nuttall on the list and another party led by Jeremy Corbyn that the fruitcakes were amply represented anyway?
    You have cheered up, haven’t you! Half-term?
    Not yet, alas! But it is always good to have the sword of Damocles removed.
    Indeed. Our eldest granddaughter teaches somewhere where they’ve done away with the February half term, but the Spring term ends in early March. Two weeks off, then they run towards the public exams, broken only by the Bank Holidays. Seems strange to hear her, as a teacher, talking about an overseas holiday in March. Significantly cheaper than the conventional Easter, of course.
    Some independent schools do that as well - Denstone in Uttoxeter, for example. It is cheaper as you say, and I believe it does help in the final run up to exams. However, from a personal point of view it would annoy me to have to work over Easter when as an organist I am always very busy with other things!

    If I had my way it would be a two week break in October with a shorter summer. But I doubt if that will ever happen - the teaching unions would go mental. For me, half term is next week and a trip to Italy which I am much looking forward to.

    However, at this moment I am off to work to do some marking. Have a good day everyone!
  • Options
    Good morning, everyone.

    Not sure I believe that Conservative percentage. Plausible they could win, but heavy favourites in a three horse race, given the record of governments taking by-election seats from the opposition? Optimistic.

    In case anyone wasn't on yesterday evening, the paperback edition of Kingdom Asunder is out now: https://www.amazon.co.uk/Kingdom-Asunder-Bloody-Crown-Trilogy/dp/1542545803/

    If you want to get your hands on nine inches of excitement, that will thrill you for ten hours before a stunning climax, do buy it.
  • Options
    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,930

    I'm taking no chances with Stoke. Although unlikely, both candidates and parties have significant weaknesses and repel in equal measure.

    I could see a weird result there.

    LibDem gain?
    Unlikely but not impossible. Certainly not 60/1.

    If I were Farron I'd be focusing on Stoke and playing the plague on both your houses card. Trouble is he will probably repel Leavers too much, and by design.
    I think the Lib Dems have a chance, here is the reasoning.

    Brinsworth & Catcliffe/Sunderland, both targeted by the Lib Dem ground game. Both quite leavey and not a million miles from Stoke in terms of social metrics I'm guessing.

    LD Adam Carter 2000 [66.0%; +50.4%]
    Labour 519 [17.1%;-26.2%]
    UKIP 389 [12.8%; -16.4%]
    Conservative 91 [3.0%; -8.8%]
    Green 30 [1.0%; +1.0%]
    32% turnout
    Majority 1481
    Votes: 3030 (9470 eligible votes)

    That Sunderland ward:

    Bryan George Foster - UKIP: 343
    Helmut Izaks - Green: 23
    Stephen Francis O’Brien - Lib Dem: 824 (45% of the vote)
    Gary Edward Waller - Labour: 458
    Gavin William Christopher Wilson - Con: 184

    Total votes cast: 1,832
    Turnout: 23.8% (7700 eligible votes)

    So of 17170 eligible votes, the Lib Dems got 2824.

    In Stoke there are 63000 eligible votes. 6000 could well be enough, given the splits. The Lib Dems might get 6000 votes - they are the only candidate fielding a non Brexit candidate

    Stoke-on-Trent

    Votes cast: 117,680 (65.7% turnout)
    Remain: 36,027

    Stoke on Trent Central on a 65.7% turnout gets ~ 41,400 eligible votes. The seat voted 35% to remain which is 14,490 votes.

    So the yellow peril need ~ 42% of the remain vote to come out 'just this once' and vote. It isn't likely, but Betfair's current 60-1 looks like good value to me.



  • Options
    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    I'm taking no chances with Stoke. Although unlikely, both candidates and parties have significant weaknesses and repel in equal measure.

    I could see a weird result there.

    Is the Official Monster Raving Loony Party standing or did they decide with Nuttall on the list and another party led by Jeremy Corbyn that the fruitcakes were amply represented anyway?
    You have cheered up, haven’t you! Half-term?
    Not yet, alas! But it is always good to have the sword of Damocles removed.
    Indeed. Our eldest granddaughter teaches somewhere where they’ve done away with the February half term, but the Spring term ends in early March. Two weeks off, then they run towards the public exams, broken only by the Bank Holidays. Seems strange to hear her, as a teacher, talking about an overseas holiday in March. Significantly cheaper than the conventional Easter, of course.
    Some independent schools do that as well - Denstone in Uttoxeter, for example. It is cheaper as you say, and I believe it does help in the final run up to exams. However, from a personal point of view it would annoy me to have to work over Easter when as an organist I am always very busy with other things!

    If I had my way it would be a two week break in October with a shorter summer. But I doubt if that will ever happen - the teaching unions would go mental. For me, half term is next week and a trip to Italy which I am much looking forward to.

    However, at this moment I am off to work to do some marking. Have a good day everyone!
    Five terms of eight weeks is the way to go. Two week holidays in between with four weeks in summer.
  • Options
    JonathanJonathan Posts: 20,901
    edited February 2017
    Betting markets do seem to overestimate Tory chances in by-elections in a similar way to national polls overestimating Labour.

    I remember PB going wild for Tony Lit way back in the 2007 by-election. PB Tories had him winning even after polls closed.

    He came third.

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    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    I'm taking no chances with Stoke. Although unlikely, both candidates and parties have significant weaknesses and repel in equal measure.

    I could see a weird result there.

    Is the Official Monster Raving Loony Party standing or did they decide with Nuttall on the list and another party led by Jeremy Corbyn that the fruitcakes were amply represented anyway?
    You have cheered up, haven’t you! Half-term?
    Not yet, alas! But it is always good to have the sword of Damocles removed.
    Indeed. Our eldest granddaughter teaches somewhere where they’ve done away with the February half term, but the Spring term ends in early March. Two weeks off, then they run towards the public exams, broken only by the Bank Holidays. Seems strange to hear her, as a teacher, talking about an overseas holiday in March. Significantly cheaper than the conventional Easter, of course.
    Some independent schools do that as well - Denstone in Uttoxeter, for example. It is cheaper as you say, and I believe it does help in the final run up to exams. However, from a personal point of view it would annoy me to have to work over Easter when as an organist I am always very busy with other things!

    If I had my way it would be a two week break in October with a shorter summer. But I doubt if that will ever happen - the teaching unions would go mental. For me, half term is next week and a trip to Italy which I am much looking forward to.

    However, at this moment I am off to work to do some marking. Have a good day everyone!
    Five terms of eight weeks is the way to go. Two week holidays in between with four weeks in summer.
    Each school doing its own thing is fine, except for parents trying to book holidays with children in different schools.
  • Options

    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    I'm taking no chances with Stoke. Although unlikely, both candidates and parties have significant weaknesses and repel in equal measure.

    I could see a weird result there.

    Is the Official Monster Raving Loony Party standing or did they decide with Nuttall on the list and another party led by Jeremy Corbyn that the fruitcakes were amply represented anyway?
    You have cheered up, haven’t you! Half-term?
    Not yet, alas! But it is always good to have the sword of Damocles removed.
    Indeed. Our eldest granddaughter teaches somewhere where they’ve done away with the February half term, but the Spring term ends in early March. Two weeks off, then they run towards the public exams, broken only by the Bank Holidays. Seems strange to hear her, as a teacher, talking about an overseas holiday in March. Significantly cheaper than the conventional Easter, of course.
    Some independent schools do that as well - Denstone in Uttoxeter, for example. It is cheaper as you say, and I believe it does help in the final run up to exams. However, from a personal point of view it would annoy me to have to work over Easter when as an organist I am always very busy with other things!

    If I had my way it would be a two week break in October with a shorter summer. But I doubt if that will ever happen - the teaching unions would go mental. For me, half term is next week and a trip to Italy which I am much looking forward to.

    However, at this moment I am off to work to do some marking. Have a good day everyone!
    Five terms of eight weeks is the way to go. Two week holidays in between with four weeks in summer.
    Each school doing its own thing is fine, except for parents trying to book holidays with children in different schools.
    Alien concept I'm sure but how about letting parents decide? If the parents think the right thing is to take them out for a week then let the parents be ... the parents.
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    Mr. Herdson, my mother (who worked in a school) was an advocate of that approach.

    The limp-wristed Archsocialist trying to alter the determination of Easter's date to suit schools is bloody daft.
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    Morning all,

    First one gone (Flynn). First of many over next two years. Then impeachment with a bit of luck.
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    Mr. Borough, would you prefer Pence to Trump?
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    Mr. Herdson, my mother (who worked in a school) was an advocate of that approach.

    The limp-wristed Archsocialist trying to alter the determination of Easter's date to suit schools is bloody daft.

    Exactly if we can't eat lots of chocolate at a date determined by Pagans beliefs in the mysticism of the lunar calendar then what is Eastern all about?
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    Tories a bit mispriced for sure - but it's frankly astonishing that two years in and with a massive amoiunt of noise around Brexit etc that the opposition aren't streets ahead. Labour would seem to have no hope of forming a government any time soon.
  • Options

    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    I'm taking no chances with Stoke. Although unlikely, both candidates and parties have significant weaknesses and repel in equal measure.

    I could see a weird result there.

    Is the Official Monster Raving Loony Party standing or did they decide with Nuttall on the list and another party led by Jeremy Corbyn that the fruitcakes were amply represented anyway?
    You have cheered up, haven’t you! Half-term?
    Not yet, alas! But it is always good to have the sword of Damocles removed.
    Indeed. Our eldest granddaughter teaches somewhere where they’ve done away with the February half term, but the Spring term ends in early March. Two weeks off, then they run towards the public exams, broken only by the Bank Holidays. Seems strange to hear her, as a teacher, talking about an overseas holiday in March. Significantly cheaper than the conventional Easter, of course.
    Some independent schools do that as well - Denstone in Uttoxeter, for example. It is cheaper as you say, and I believe it does help in the final run up to exams. However, from a personal point of view it would annoy me to have to work over Easter when as an organist I am always very busy with other things!

    If I had my way it would be a two week break in October with a shorter summer. But I doubt if that will ever happen - the teaching unions would go mental. For me, half term is next week and a trip to Italy which I am much looking forward to.

    However, at this moment I am off to work to do some marking. Have a good day everyone!
    Five terms of eight weeks is the way to go. Two week holidays in between with four weeks in summer.
    Each school doing its own thing is fine, except for parents trying to book holidays with children in different schools.
    That's true, and is one major reason for the institutional inertia that leads to one of the major school holidays bouncing around the calendar for obsolete social reasons.

    Schools do talk to each other though and it ought to be possible within an area to give it a go.
  • Options

    Mr. Herdson, my mother (who worked in a school) was an advocate of that approach.

    The limp-wristed Archsocialist trying to alter the determination of Easter's date to suit schools is bloody daft.

    There's an Act of Parliament passed under a Conservative government to fix Easter:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Easter_Act_1928

    And of course politicians and bishops have been messing around with the date of Easter since at least the seventh century.
  • Options

    Good morning, everyone.

    Not sure I believe that Conservative percentage. Plausible they could win, but heavy favourites in a three horse race, given the record of governments taking by-election seats from the opposition? Optimistic.

    In case anyone wasn't on yesterday evening, the paperback edition of Kingdom Asunder is out now: https://www.amazon.co.uk/Kingdom-Asunder-Bloody-Crown-Trilogy/dp/1542545803/

    If you want to get your hands on nine inches of excitement, that will thrill you for ten hours before a stunning climax, do buy it.

    Good luck with the paperback. A Valentine's day treat?
  • Options
    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 117,030
    Even on current polling Copeland is neck and neck between the Tories and Labour, the Tories are not ahead. Copeland is also different from Richmond Park in that it is the Tories who are the insurgents challenging in a strong Leave area while in Richmond it was the LDs who were the insurgents in a strong Remain area
  • Options

    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    I'm taking no chances with Stoke. Although unlikely, both candidates and parties have significant weaknesses and repel in equal measure.

    I could see a weird result there.

    Is the Official Monster Raving Loony Party standing or did they decide with Nuttall on the list and another party led by Jeremy Corbyn that the fruitcakes were amply represented anyway?
    You have cheered up, haven’t you! Half-term?
    Not yet, alas! But it is always good to have the sword of Damocles removed.
    Indeed. Our eldest granddaughter teaches somewhere where they’ve done away with the February half term, but the Spring term ends in early March. Two weeks off, then they run towards the public exams, broken only by the Bank Holidays. Seems strange to hear her, as a teacher, talking about an overseas holiday in March. Significantly cheaper than the conventional Easter, of course.
    Some independent schools do that as well - Denstone in Uttoxeter, for example. It is cheaper as you say, and I believe it does help in the final run up to exams. However, from a personal point of view it would annoy me to have to work over Easter when as an organist I am always very busy with other things!

    If I had my way it would be a two week break in October with a shorter summer. But I doubt if that will ever happen - the teaching unions would go mental. For me, half term is next week and a trip to Italy which I am much looking forward to.

    However, at this moment I am off to work to do some marking. Have a good day everyone!
    Five terms of eight weeks is the way to go. Two week holidays in between with four weeks in summer.
    Each school doing its own thing is fine, except for parents trying to book holidays with children in different schools.
    Alien concept I'm sure but how about letting parents decide? If the parents think the right thing is to take them out for a week then let the parents be ... the parents.
    As long as the parents are willing to refund the state the money that it's spending on the kid's education in that time, which is probably about £150 a week (it's a while since I was a school governor; it may be more than that now).
  • Options
    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 117,030
    Pulpstar said:

    I'm taking no chances with Stoke. Although unlikely, both candidates and parties have significant weaknesses and repel in equal measure.

    I could see a weird result there.

    LibDem gain?
    Unlikely but not impossible. Certainly not 60/1.

    If I were Farron I'd be focusing on Stoke and playing the plague on both your houses card. Trouble is he will probably repel Leavers too much, and by design.
    I think the Lib Dems have a chance, here is the reasoning.

    Brinsworth & Catcliffe/Sunderland, both targeted by the Lib Dem ground game. Both quite leavey and not a million miles from Stoke in terms of social metrics I'm guessing.

    LD Adam Carter 2000 [66.0%; +50.4%]
    Labour 519 [17.1%;-26.2%]
    UKIP 389 [12.8%; -16.4%]
    Conservative 91 [3.0%; -8.8%]
    Green 30 [1.0%; +1.0%]
    32% turnout
    Majority 1481
    Votes: 3030 (9470 eligible votes)

    That Sunderland ward:

    Bryan George Foster - UKIP: 343
    Helmut Izaks - Green: 23
    Stephen Francis O’Brien - Lib Dem: 824 (45% of the vote)
    Gary Edward Waller - Labour: 458
    Gavin William Christopher Wilson - Con: 184

    Total votes cast: 1,832
    Turnout: 23.8% (7700 eligible votes)

    So of 17170 eligible votes, the Lib Dems got 2824.

    In Stoke there are 63000 eligible votes. 6000 could well be enough, given the splits. The Lib Dems might get 6000 votes - they are the only candidate fielding a non Brexit candidate

    Stoke-on-Trent

    Votes cast: 117,680 (65.7% turnout)
    Remain: 36,027

    Stoke on Trent Central on a 65.7% turnout gets ~ 41,400 eligible votes. The seat voted 35% to remain which is 14,490 votes.

    So the yellow peril need ~ 42% of the remain vote to come out 'just this once' and vote. It isn't likely, but Betfair's current 60-1 looks like good value to me.



    In Sunderland the Labour councillor was forced to resign for non attendance and in Rotherham the LDs came 4th in a by election on the same night
  • Options

    Pulpstar said:

    The price for the Tories in Cope land is crackers

    I topped up on Labour this morning.
    May is to visit Copeland later this week. Unusual for a by-election and, given the New Statesman scurrilous bit by Kevin Maguire about Tories muttering about her tiredness/health then she wouldn't be wasting time.
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    HYUFD said:

    Even on current polling Copeland is neck and neck between the Tories and Labour, the Tories are not ahead. Copeland is also different from Richmond Park in that it is the Tories who are the insurgents challenging in a strong Leave area while in Richmond it was the LDs who were the insurgents in a strong Remain area

    We shouldn't ignore something that was probably overlooked at the time in Richmond: just how big a handicap it was to Zac not to have access to the Tory data bank of pledges.

    FWIW, I think Labour are too short in both seats. They should be clear favourites in Stoke and while Con should still be favourites in Copeland, I wouldn't be backing anywhere south of 4/5.
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    Patrick said:

    Tories a bit mispriced for sure - but it's frankly astonishing that two years in and with a massive amoiunt of noise around Brexit etc that the opposition aren't streets ahead. Labour would seem to have no hope of forming a government any time soon.

    No, they haven't. Not a sliver. The Corbynista had a fabulous dream. But it was only a dream.
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    Mr. Borough, I tried that angle on Twitter :D

    https://twitter.com/MorrisF1/status/831417439447564290

    The first chapter does have a woman kicking a man in the head during a discussion about arranged marriage, bridal kidnap, and fornication.

    Mr. Meeks, fiddling with the date for scholastic or religious reasons is one thing. Messing about with it because of school holidays is pathetic. Where's the faith in that? Oh, we'll just stick it here because it's convenient for schools.

    Mr. Thompson, quite. [If you removed the bits that Christianity, or Islam, stole from other religions there'd be precious little left. No Christmas, no rising from the dead, no shiny stone in Mecca].
  • Options
    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 117,030
    edited February 2017

    HYUFD said:

    Even on current polling Copeland is neck and neck between the Tories and Labour, the Tories are not ahead. Copeland is also different from Richmond Park in that it is the Tories who are the insurgents challenging in a strong Leave area while in Richmond it was the LDs who were the insurgents in a strong Remain area

    We shouldn't ignore something that was probably overlooked at the time in Richmond: just how big a handicap it was to Zac not to have access to the Tory data bank of pledges.

    FWIW, I think Labour are too short in both seats. They should be clear favourites in Stoke and while Con should still be favourites in Copeland, I wouldn't be backing anywhere south of 4/5.
    The Tories are also heavily phonebanking in Copeland as the LDs did in Richmond Park, the Tories did next to nothing for Zac. I would agree Labour are favourites in Stoke and the Tories narrow favorites in Copeland but the latter could be very tight
  • Options
    JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 39,045
    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    I'm taking no chances with Stoke. Although unlikely, both candidates and parties have significant weaknesses and repel in equal measure.

    I could see a weird result there.

    Is the Official Monster Raving Loony Party standing or did they decide with Nuttall on the list and another party led by Jeremy Corbyn that the fruitcakes were amply represented anyway?
    You have cheered up, haven’t you! Half-term?
    Not yet, alas! But it is always good to have the sword of Damocles removed.
    Indeed. Our eldest granddaughter teaches somewhere where they’ve done away with the February half term, but the Spring term ends in early March. Two weeks off, then they run towards the public exams, broken only by the Bank Holidays. Seems strange to hear her, as a teacher, talking about an overseas holiday in March. Significantly cheaper than the conventional Easter, of course.
    Some independent schools do that as well - Denstone in Uttoxeter, for example. It is cheaper as you say, and I believe it does help in the final run up to exams. However, from a personal point of view it would annoy me to have to work over Easter when as an organist I am always very busy with other things!

    If I had my way it would be a two week break in October with a shorter summer. But I doubt if that will ever happen - the teaching unions would go mental. For me, half term is next week and a trip to Italy which I am much looking forward to.

    However, at this moment I am off to work to do some marking. Have a good day everyone!
    "Denstone in Uttoxeter"

    My old school. Always was a weird place. ;)
  • Options
    AlsoIndigoAlsoIndigo Posts: 1,852

    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    I'm taking no chances with Stoke. Although unlikely, both candidates and parties have significant weaknesses and repel in equal measure.

    I could see a weird result there.

    Is the Official Monster Raving Loony Party standing or did they decide with Nuttall on the list and another party led by Jeremy Corbyn that the fruitcakes were amply represented anyway?
    You have cheered up, haven’t you! Half-term?
    Not yet, alas! But it is always good to have the sword of Damocles removed.
    Indeed. Our eldest granddaughter teaches somewhere where they’ve done away with the February half term, but the Spring term ends in early March. Two weeks off, then they run towards the public exams, broken only by the Bank Holidays. Seems strange to hear her, as a teacher, talking about an overseas holiday in March. Significantly cheaper than the conventional Easter, of course.
    Some independent schools do that as well - Denstone in Uttoxeter, for example. It is cheaper as you say, and I believe it does help in the final run up to exams. However, from a personal point of view it would annoy me to have to work over Easter when as an organist I am always very busy with other things!

    If I had my way it would be a two week break in October with a shorter summer. But I doubt if that will ever happen - the teaching unions would go mental. For me, half term is next week and a trip to Italy which I am much looking forward to.

    However, at this moment I am off to work to do some marking. Have a good day everyone!
    Five terms of eight weeks is the way to go. Two week holidays in between with four weeks in summer.
    Each school doing its own thing is fine, except for parents trying to book holidays with children in different schools.
    Alien concept I'm sure but how about letting parents decide? If the parents think the right thing is to take them out for a week then let the parents be ... the parents.
    As long as the parents are willing to refund the state the money that it's spending on the kid's education in that time, which is probably about £150 a week (it's a while since I was a school governor; it may be more than that now).
    That's a dangerous road to go down, by the same argument the state should be refunding parents the same £150 per week if they send their children to private school since they are not using that facility... likewise parents that choose to homeschool.
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    Six Nations: interesting that Scotland and Wales are both 1.9 for the win with Ladbrokes. A fortnight or so until the next matches, though. Might check the more detailed markets for winning margins, total points, etc.

    Also a bit annoyed with Hogg. I was about to back him to be top try scorer in the last match but realised I'd misread the market (it was to be first). So I didn't back him. And he scored first, the sod.
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    JobabobJobabob Posts: 3,807

    Mr. Herdson, my mother (who worked in a school) was an advocate of that approach.

    The limp-wristed Archsocialist trying to alter the determination of Easter's date to suit schools is bloody daft.

    There's an Act of Parliament passed under a Conservative government to fix Easter:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Easter_Act_1928

    And of course politicians and bishops have been messing around with the date of Easter since at least the seventh century.
    Easter should be fixed to the second weekend in April and the school holidays built around it, a week each side. The current system is absurd - Easter can take place in March when it is freezing cold or very late April when the school calendar cannot cope. This year, Easter Monday is the last day of the school holidays for many - hardly parent friendly.
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    Patrick said:

    Tories a bit mispriced for sure - but it's frankly astonishing that two years in and with a massive amoiunt of noise around Brexit etc that the opposition aren't streets ahead. Labour would seem to have no hope of forming a government any time soon.

    No, they haven't. Not a sliver. The Corbynista had a fabulous dream. But it was only a dream.
    Their dream, my nightmare. They dream of my serfdom. If we're all really lucky Labour will collapse and die and a decent, moral non-lunatic centre left party can emerge. Strange as it may seem I genuinely wish Minor Fart well.
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    Three countries in EU have below 30% gross debt by GDP (2015 numbers). One was a bit of a surprise when I saw it.

    Anyone name them - without googling?
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    Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 60,988
    edited February 2017
    Mr. Borough, China, Liechtenstein and Singapore.

    Edited extra bit: ahem, misread that, thought it was the world...

    New entries - Denmark, Spain, Germany.
  • Options
    JobabobJobabob Posts: 3,807
    Morris - I'm guessing from your post you don't have children. Convenient for schools, convenient for parents. The current set up is bonkers. It is also a pain for businesses who have a major holiday bouncing around the calendar each year, making scheduling a PITA.
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    malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 42,015

    Joyous & Civic. Nats respond to a voice they tried and failed to silence:

    https://twitter.com/JournoStephen/status/831278213649354753

    Desperate Unionist Better Together Lord Haw Haw department is alive and still being paid to spout their lies and propaganda I see.
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    TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 41,333

    Patrick said:

    Tories a bit mispriced for sure - but it's frankly astonishing that two years in and with a massive amoiunt of noise around Brexit etc that the opposition aren't streets ahead. Labour would seem to have no hope of forming a government any time soon.

    No, they haven't. Not a sliver. The Corbynista had a fabulous dream. But it was only a dream.
    The question, as was mentioned in a post over the weekend, I believe, is at what point if ever the Momentumista loses faith with Jezza and realises that it too wants to put its "overthrow the Tories" mantra into practice.

    NPXMPX2 still some way off, according to his post.
  • Options
    Jobabob said:

    Mr. Herdson, my mother (who worked in a school) was an advocate of that approach.

    The limp-wristed Archsocialist trying to alter the determination of Easter's date to suit schools is bloody daft.

    There's an Act of Parliament passed under a Conservative government to fix Easter:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Easter_Act_1928

    And of course politicians and bishops have been messing around with the date of Easter since at least the seventh century.
    Easter should be fixed to the second weekend in April and the school holidays built around it, a week each side. The current system is absurd - Easter can take place in March when it is freezing cold or very late April when the school calendar cannot cope. This year, Easter Monday is the last day of the school holidays for many - hardly parent friendly.
    Maybe the best thing is to recognise the secular nature of the country and completely ignore religious dates (all religions) when setting school terms and holidays.
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    Mr. Bob, the date's predictable. It may move, but they don't roll a pair of 20-sided dice in February to determine the date.
  • Options
    TOPPING said:

    Patrick said:

    Tories a bit mispriced for sure - but it's frankly astonishing that two years in and with a massive amoiunt of noise around Brexit etc that the opposition aren't streets ahead. Labour would seem to have no hope of forming a government any time soon.

    No, they haven't. Not a sliver. The Corbynista had a fabulous dream. But it was only a dream.
    The question, as was mentioned in a post over the weekend, I believe, is at what point if ever the Momentumista loses faith with Jezza and realises that it too wants to put its "overthrow the Tories" mantra into practice.

    NPXMPX2 still some way off, according to his post.
    This is no longer up to the Corbynista. Corbyn is highly unlikely to be LOTO by 2020. He has had enough personally as far as I can see. The process has begun.
  • Options

    Mr. Borough, China, Liechtenstein and Singapore...

    China!!! China's debt is off the charts. They have a major major reckoning with reality coming right around the corner at them sometime not too far away.
  • Options
    JobabobJobabob Posts: 3,807
    Patr
    Patrick said:

    Jobabob said:

    Mr. Herdson, my mother (who worked in a school) was an advocate of that approach.

    The limp-wristed Archsocialist trying to alter the determination of Easter's date to suit schools is bloody daft.

    There's an Act of Parliament passed under a Conservative government to fix Easter:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Easter_Act_1928

    And of course politicians and bishops have been messing around with the date of Easter since at least the seventh century.
    Easter should be fixed to the second weekend in April and the school holidays built around it, a week each side. The current system is absurd - Easter can take place in March when it is freezing cold or very late April when the school calendar cannot cope. This year, Easter Monday is the last day of the school holidays for many - hardly parent friendly.
    Maybe the best thing is to recognise the secular nature of the country and completely ignore religious dates (all religions) when setting school terms and holidays.
    Patrick said:

    Jobabob said:

    Mr. Herdson, my mother (who worked in a school) was an advocate of that approach.

    The limp-wristed Archsocialist trying to alter the determination of Easter's date to suit schools is bloody daft.

    There's an Act of Parliament passed under a Conservative government to fix Easter:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Easter_Act_1928

    And of course politicians and bishops have been messing around with the date of Easter since at least the seventh century.
    Easter should be fixed to the second weekend in April and the school holidays built around it, a week each side. The current system is absurd - Easter can take place in March when it is freezing cold or very late April when the school calendar cannot cope. This year, Easter Monday is the last day of the school holidays for many - hardly parent friendly.
    Maybe the best thing is to recognise the secular nature of the country and completely ignore religious dates (all religions) when setting school terms and holidays.
    Patrick - not practical because then Easter could fall outside the school holidays. Not parent friendly.

    Morris - it's a waste of time and causes scheduling issues with staff any projects. Fix it.
  • Options
    rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 58,266
    edited February 2017

    Mr. Borough, China, Liechtenstein and Singapore.

    Edited extra bit: ahem, misread that, thought it was the world...

    New entries - Denmark, Spain, Germany.

    Not even close I am afraid Mr Dancer.

    (although small prize for Denmark - they are on lowish side - at 40%)
  • Options
    TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 41,333

    TOPPING said:

    Patrick said:

    Tories a bit mispriced for sure - but it's frankly astonishing that two years in and with a massive amoiunt of noise around Brexit etc that the opposition aren't streets ahead. Labour would seem to have no hope of forming a government any time soon.

    No, they haven't. Not a sliver. The Corbynista had a fabulous dream. But it was only a dream.
    The question, as was mentioned in a post over the weekend, I believe, is at what point if ever the Momentumista loses faith with Jezza and realises that it too wants to put its "overthrow the Tories" mantra into practice.

    NPXMPX2 still some way off, according to his post.
    This is no longer up to the Corbynista. Corbyn is highly unlikely to be LOTO by 2020. He has had enough personally as far as I can see. The process has begun.
    What are the mechanics for that to happen?
  • Options
    malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 42,015
    kle4 said:

    Joyous & Civic. Nats respond to a voice they tried and failed to silence:

    hts://twitter.com/JournoStephen/status/831278213649354753

    I know all sides have idiots, but it's still depressing to see.
    Compared to the ugly stuff from the nutjob yoonatics that is very mild stuff. I don't see the death threats you get from them.
    He is milking his utter crapness and looks like he will make lots of money out of it.
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    CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    Essexit said:

    In his last blog post on the referendum, Cummings suggests that the betting markets may have been skewed by hedge funds. He doesn't have hard evidence, but points out the following:
    - Betting markets have become more important as a way of predicting results
    - He knows that some funds had private polling pointing to a Leave win
    - The amount of money required to skew markets and send false signals to rivals is small compared to the amounts to be made y
    With all that in mind, why wouldn't they do it?

    Because if that is why they were doing it they could be locked up.
  • Options
    Mr. Patrick, he said one was surprising, hence going for a surprise.

    Mr. Borough, a little Danish prize does sound nice on Valentine's Day.

    Mr. Bob, Jesus doesn't rise from the dead at your convenience. Humbug to your heathen secularism.

    [As an aside, Easter is my favourite holiday. Utterly voluntary, if you buy eggs then you only need a few, they're cheap, and the day after the shops are full of cut-price chocolate. Huzzah!].
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    Patrick said:

    Mr. Borough, China, Liechtenstein and Singapore...

    China!!! China's debt is off the charts. They have a major major reckoning with reality coming right around the corner at them sometime not too far away.
    Yep, I am afraid you may be right. Unfortunately the rest of us will get caught up in the chaos I fear. I mean for start, where are all our xmas presents going to come from if there is some kind of economic meltdown in China? And then there's the dollar debt.
  • Options
    rkrkrkrkrkrk Posts: 7,908

    Three countries in EU have below 30% gross debt by GDP (2015 numbers). One was a bit of a surprise when I saw it.

    Anyone name them - without googling?

    Luxembourg, Austria and Sweden?
  • Options
    TOPPING said:

    TOPPING said:

    Patrick said:

    Tories a bit mispriced for sure - but it's frankly astonishing that two years in and with a massive amoiunt of noise around Brexit etc that the opposition aren't streets ahead. Labour would seem to have no hope of forming a government any time soon.

    No, they haven't. Not a sliver. The Corbynista had a fabulous dream. But it was only a dream.
    The question, as was mentioned in a post over the weekend, I believe, is at what point if ever the Momentumista loses faith with Jezza and realises that it too wants to put its "overthrow the Tories" mantra into practice.

    NPXMPX2 still some way off, according to his post.
    This is no longer up to the Corbynista. Corbyn is highly unlikely to be LOTO by 2020. He has had enough personally as far as I can see. The process has begun.
    What are the mechanics for that to happen?
    He resigns or offers to resign in exchange for the 38 signatures required to get X (fill in lefty names as they are rolled out and kite tested) on to the ballot.
  • Options
    rkrkrk said:

    Three countries in EU have below 30% gross debt by GDP (2015 numbers). One was a bit of a surprise when I saw it.

    Anyone name them - without googling?

    Luxembourg, Austria and Sweden?
    One point. Lux - well done. 22% according to EuroStat. Not the lowest though
  • Options



    Mr. Bob, Jesus doesn't rise from the dead at your convenience.

    that's right, he does it according to the phases of the moon
  • Options
    Jobabob said:

    Patr

    Patrick said:

    Jobabob said:

    Mr. Herdson, my mother (who worked in a school) was an advocate of that approach.

    The limp-wristed Archsocialist trying to alter the determination of Easter's date to suit schools is bloody daft.

    There's an Act of Parliament passed under a Conservative government to fix Easter:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Easter_Act_1928

    And of course politicians and bishops have been messing around with the date of Easter since at least the seventh century.
    Easter should be fixed to the second weekend in April and the school holidays built around it, a week each side. The current system is absurd - Easter can take place in March when it is freezing cold or very late April when the school calendar cannot cope. This year, Easter Monday is the last day of the school holidays for many - hardly parent friendly.
    Maybe the best thing is to recognise the secular nature of the country and completely ignore religious dates (all religions) when setting school terms and holidays.
    Patrick said:

    Jobabob said:

    Mr. Herdson, my mother (who worked in a school) was an advocate of that approach.

    The limp-wristed Archsocialist trying to alter the determination of Easter's date to suit schools is bloody daft.

    There's an Act of Parliament passed under a Conservative government to fix Easter:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Easter_Act_1928

    And of course politicians and bishops have been messing around with the date of Easter since at least the seventh century.
    Easter should be fixed to the second weekend in April and the school holidays built around it, a week each side. The current system is absurd - Easter can take place in March when it is freezing cold or very late April when the school calendar cannot cope. This year, Easter Monday is the last day of the school holidays for many - hardly parent friendly.
    Maybe the best thing is to recognise the secular nature of the country and completely ignore religious dates (all religions) when setting school terms and holidays.
    Patrick - not practical because then Easter could fall outside the school holidays. Not parent friendly.

    Morris - it's a waste of time and causes scheduling issues with staff any projects. Fix it.
    Why is it a problem if Easter falls outside a school holiday?
  • Options
    OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 32,008
    Patrick said:

    Jobabob said:

    Mr. Herdson, my mother (who worked in a school) was an advocate of that approach.

    The limp-wristed Archsocialist trying to alter the determination of Easter's date to suit schools is bloody daft.

    There's an Act of Parliament passed under a Conservative government to fix Easter:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Easter_Act_1928

    And of course politicians and bishops have been messing around with the date of Easter since at least the seventh century.
    Easter should be fixed to the second weekend in April and the school holidays built around it, a week each side. The current system is absurd - Easter can take place in March when it is freezing cold or very late April when the school calendar cannot cope. This year, Easter Monday is the last day of the school holidays for many - hardly parent friendly.
    Maybe the best thing is to recognise the secular nature of the country and completely ignore religious dates (all religions) when setting school terms and holidays.
    There are all sorts of reasons for setting school holidays around the country. IIRC, in parts of Scotland they used to have a week off in the early Autumn for potato picking and in parts of Lancashire the Wakes weeks were always school holidays.

    There’s a good argument for a Christmas/Midwinter/NewYear holiday since that’s been recognised as a feast time since well before Christianity. However, the movability of Easter is a pain.

    It’s also a pain to parents when there are two or more children in a family and they attend schools with different holidays.
  • Options
    EssexitEssexit Posts: 1,956

    Three countries in EU have below 30% gross debt by GDP (2015 numbers). One was a bit of a surprise when I saw it.

    Anyone name them - without googling?

    Finland, Estonia, Slovenia?
  • Options
    TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 41,333
    Charles said:

    Essexit said:

    In his last blog post on the referendum, Cummings suggests that the betting markets may have been skewed by hedge funds. He doesn't have hard evidence, but points out the following:
    - Betting markets have become more important as a way of predicting results
    - He knows that some funds had private polling pointing to a Leave win
    - The amount of money required to skew markets and send false signals to rivals is small compared to the amounts to be made y
    With all that in mind, why wouldn't they do it?

    Because if that is why they were doing it they could be locked up.
    For what?
  • Options

    HYUFD said:

    Even on current polling Copeland is neck and neck between the Tories and Labour, the Tories are not ahead. Copeland is also different from Richmond Park in that it is the Tories who are the insurgents challenging in a strong Leave area while in Richmond it was the LDs who were the insurgents in a strong Remain area

    We shouldn't ignore something that was probably overlooked at the time in Richmond: just how big a handicap it was to Zac not to have access to the Tory data bank of pledges.

    FWIW, I think Labour are too short in both seats. They should be clear favourites in Stoke and while Con should still be favourites in Copeland, I wouldn't be backing anywhere south of 4/5.
    Didn't Zac have the backing of his association? Weren't they the people who did the canvassing originally? Did they forget where his supporters lived?

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/11/10/tory-mps-campaign-for-independent-candidate-zac-goldsmith-for-ri/
    “The reason the Conservative party nationally did not put a candidate in Richmond and Kingston is because every single councillor and the association as a whole let it by known by sending a message to the Prime Minister and the Conservative chairman that if there was a candidate they would still back me.”
  • Options
    TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 41,333

    TOPPING said:

    TOPPING said:

    Patrick said:

    Tories a bit mispriced for sure - but it's frankly astonishing that two years in and with a massive amoiunt of noise around Brexit etc that the opposition aren't streets ahead. Labour would seem to have no hope of forming a government any time soon.

    No, they haven't. Not a sliver. The Corbynista had a fabulous dream. But it was only a dream.
    The question, as was mentioned in a post over the weekend, I believe, is at what point if ever the Momentumista loses faith with Jezza and realises that it too wants to put its "overthrow the Tories" mantra into practice.

    NPXMPX2 still some way off, according to his post.
    This is no longer up to the Corbynista. Corbyn is highly unlikely to be LOTO by 2020. He has had enough personally as far as I can see. The process has begun.
    What are the mechanics for that to happen?
    He resigns or offers to resign in exchange for the 38 signatures required to get X (fill in lefty names as they are rolled out and kite tested) on to the ballot.
    After all this? Well of course I am nowhere near the beating heart of the Labour Party but to a distant outsider it would seem to contravene every indication given by Jezza and his buddies to date.
  • Options
    Essexit said:

    Three countries in EU have below 30% gross debt by GDP (2015 numbers). One was a bit of a surprise when I saw it.

    Anyone name them - without googling?

    Finland, Estonia, Slovenia?
    One point - well done. Estonia has the lowest debt at 10%.

    Finland, somewhat to my surprise, is at 63%. All but doubled since 2008. Nokia effect?
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    JobabobJobabob Posts: 3,807
    Morris - given the festival is supposed to be his rising from the dead, then why should that be on a different date each year? Kinda undermines your story. Let's agree upon a date upon which he rose from the dead and, having examined the evidence, settle on the second weekend in April. Everyone happy.
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    not_on_firenot_on_fire Posts: 4,341
    Jobabob said:

    Patr

    Patrick said:

    Jobabob said:

    Mr. Herdson, my mother (who worked in a school) was an advocate of that approach.

    The limp-wristed Archsocialist trying to alter the determination of Easter's date to suit schools is bloody daft.

    There's an Act of Parliament passed under a Conservative government to fix Easter:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Easter_Act_1928

    And of course politicians and bishops have been messing around with the date of Easter since at least the seventh century.
    Easter should be fixed to the second weekend in April and the school holidays built around it, a week each side. The current system is absurd - Easter can take place in March when it is freezing cold or very late April when the school calendar cannot cope. This year, Easter Monday is the last day of the school holidays for many - hardly parent friendly.
    Maybe the best thing is to recognise the secular nature of the country and completely ignore religious dates (all religions) when setting school terms and holidays.
    Patrick said:

    Jobabob said:

    Mr. Herdson, my mother (who worked in a school) was an advocate of that approach.

    The limp-wristed Archsocialist trying to alter the determination of Easter's date to suit schools is bloody daft.

    There's an Act of Parliament passed under a Conservative government to fix Easter:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Easter_Act_1928

    And of course politicians and bishops have been messing around with the date of Easter since at least the seventh century.
    Easter should be fixed to the second weekend in April and the school holidays built around it, a week each side. The current system is absurd - Easter can take place in March when it is freezing cold or very late April when the school calendar cannot cope. This year, Easter Monday is the last day of the school holidays for many - hardly parent friendly.
    Maybe the best thing is to recognise the secular nature of the country and completely ignore religious dates (all religions) when setting school terms and holidays.
    Patrick - not practical because then Easter could fall outside the school holidays. Not parent friendly.

    Morris - it's a waste of time and causes scheduling issues with staff any projects. Fix it.
    The real issue is not that the date of Easter moves but that the bank holidays move with it. Fix the bank hols to be the same week every year and the problem is solved without heaving to make the beardies happy.
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    OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 32,008

    HYUFD said:

    Even on current polling Copeland is neck and neck between the Tories and Labour, the Tories are not ahead. Copeland is also different from Richmond Park in that it is the Tories who are the insurgents challenging in a strong Leave area while in Richmond it was the LDs who were the insurgents in a strong Remain area

    We shouldn't ignore something that was probably overlooked at the time in Richmond: just how big a handicap it was to Zac not to have access to the Tory data bank of pledges.

    FWIW, I think Labour are too short in both seats. They should be clear favourites in Stoke and while Con should still be favourites in Copeland, I wouldn't be backing anywhere south of 4/5.
    Didn't Zac have the backing of his association? Weren't they the people who did the canvassing originally? Did they forget where his supporters lived?

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/11/10/tory-mps-campaign-for-independent-candidate-zac-goldsmith-for-ri/
    “The reason the Conservative party nationally did not put a candidate in Richmond and Kingston is because every single councillor and the association as a whole let it by known by sending a message to the Prime Minister and the Conservative chairman that if there was a candidate they would still back me.”
    Isn’t a lot of the useful material data-protected?
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    Essexit said:

    Three countries in EU have below 30% gross debt by GDP (2015 numbers). One was a bit of a surprise when I saw it.

    Anyone name them - without googling?

    Finland, Estonia, Slovenia?
    One point - well done. Estonia has the lowest debt at 10%.

    Finland, somewhat to my surprise, is at 63%. All but doubled since 2008. Nokia effect?
    I'd guess the others are in the east too? Slovenia and Latvia?
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    rkrkrkrkrkrk Posts: 7,908

    Essexit said:

    Three countries in EU have below 30% gross debt by GDP (2015 numbers). One was a bit of a surprise when I saw it.

    Anyone name them - without googling?

    Finland, Estonia, Slovenia?
    One point - well done. Estonia has the lowest debt at 10%.

    Finland, somewhat to my surprise, is at 63%. All but doubled since 2008. Nokia effect?
    Hmm... Small countries seems to be the common thread.
    Latvia?
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    TOPPING said:

    TOPPING said:

    TOPPING said:

    Patrick said:

    Tories a bit mispriced for sure - but it's frankly astonishing that two years in and with a massive amoiunt of noise around Brexit etc that the opposition aren't streets ahead. Labour would seem to have no hope of forming a government any time soon.

    No, they haven't. Not a sliver. The Corbynista had a fabulous dream. But it was only a dream.
    The question, as was mentioned in a post over the weekend, I believe, is at what point if ever the Momentumista loses faith with Jezza and realises that it too wants to put its "overthrow the Tories" mantra into practice.

    NPXMPX2 still some way off, according to his post.
    This is no longer up to the Corbynista. Corbyn is highly unlikely to be LOTO by 2020. He has had enough personally as far as I can see. The process has begun.
    What are the mechanics for that to happen?
    He resigns or offers to resign in exchange for the 38 signatures required to get X (fill in lefty names as they are rolled out and kite tested) on to the ballot.
    After all this? Well of course I am nowhere near the beating heart of the Labour Party but to a distant outsider it would seem to contravene every indication given by Jezza and his buddies to date.
    His own buddies (Abbot and co.) have given him 12 months to turn around the polling, on live TV.

    Maybe they are as mad as they sound and they believe he will do it.
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    Essexit said:

    Three countries in EU have below 30% gross debt by GDP (2015 numbers). One was a bit of a surprise when I saw it.

    Anyone name them - without googling?

    Finland, Estonia, Slovenia?
    One point - well done. Estonia has the lowest debt at 10%.

    Finland, somewhat to my surprise, is at 63%. All but doubled since 2008. Nokia effect?
    I'd guess the others are in the east too? Slovenia and Latvia?
    No, as I say one was a surprise. Latvia is low though - 36%
  • Options
    rkrkrkrkrkrk Posts: 7,908

    Essexit said:

    Three countries in EU have below 30% gross debt by GDP (2015 numbers). One was a bit of a surprise when I saw it.

    Anyone name them - without googling?

    Finland, Estonia, Slovenia?
    One point - well done. Estonia has the lowest debt at 10%.

    Finland, somewhat to my surprise, is at 63%. All but doubled since 2008. Nokia effect?
    I'd guess the others are in the east too? Slovenia and Latvia?
    No, as I say one was a surprise. Latvia is low though - 36%
    Malta?
  • Options

    HYUFD said:

    Even on current polling Copeland is neck and neck between the Tories and Labour, the Tories are not ahead. Copeland is also different from Richmond Park in that it is the Tories who are the insurgents challenging in a strong Leave area while in Richmond it was the LDs who were the insurgents in a strong Remain area

    We shouldn't ignore something that was probably overlooked at the time in Richmond: just how big a handicap it was to Zac not to have access to the Tory data bank of pledges.

    FWIW, I think Labour are too short in both seats. They should be clear favourites in Stoke and while Con should still be favourites in Copeland, I wouldn't be backing anywhere south of 4/5.
    Didn't Zac have the backing of his association? Weren't they the people who did the canvassing originally? Did they forget where his supporters lived?

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/11/10/tory-mps-campaign-for-independent-candidate-zac-goldsmith-for-ri/
    “The reason the Conservative party nationally did not put a candidate in Richmond and Kingston is because every single councillor and the association as a whole let it by known by sending a message to the Prime Minister and the Conservative chairman that if there was a candidate they would still back me.”
    I'm sure they knew in general terms where the areas of support were but in terms of access to the pledge lists (and contact details), they should have been blocked from accessing Con Party data. There are tens of thousands of voters in a constituency. I could only tell remember a tiny fraction of pledges - and those either because I know the personally as activists in one party or another, because they're poster sites or because the voter was memorably rude!
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