Oh dear the news from German and independence support surging in Scotland - your world is starting to fall apart and all of your old certaintiesand prejudices with it.
Never mind have a drink put a bet of the Lib/Dems to win something.
No poll yet has Yes ahead but of course with the UK now leaving the single market if an independent Scotland rejoins the EU that means border controls at Berwick and customs duties on Scottish exports to the UK which is where a majority of Scottish exports go
So there will be border patrol boats on the Tweed but not on the Foyle? Why?
Because there is an ocean (and a lot of bloody history) between the island of Ireland and Great Britain, so it makes sense to police migrants, trade, when they are on boats and planes heading to the mainland, thus avoiding a provocative hard border at Derry.
Indeed this is what is now being discussed: electronic monitoring of cars and citizens crossing into Ulster from Ireland, and more customs and policework on the ferries and planes.
The land border between Scotland and England is an entirely different matter. It would make a nonsense of our new tougher migration laws if any EU citizen could fly to Scotland then simply walk, bus or drive into England and look for work.
There would be some form of hard-ish border. And what about tariffs? I don't think (sadly) we will get completely tariff free and NTB-free access to the Single Market, so an iScotland in the EU would face tariffs on its goods, coming into England.
So passports required between one part of the UK and another?
You'd know that photo ID is already required to travel within the CTA, if you'd ever used it.....
Photo ID to walk across the border? Or are you confusing that will the need to show photo ID to get on a plane to Dublin?
An independent Scotland would start life outside the EU and be forced to join the queue for membership, the European Commission’s official representative in the UK has said in a major blow to Nicola Sturgeon’s Brexit strategy.
Jacqueline Minor said Jean Claude Juncker, the commission’s president, had made clear there would be no more states admitted until 2020 – the year after the UK is expected to leave the European Union. She said there are several countries waiting to become member states, including Montenegro and Serbia, and an independent Scotland “would join that list.” This would mean Scotland being outside both the UK and EU for an indeterminate period.
With the SNP’s leadership reviewing their stance on currency, she said a separate Scotland would have to commit in principle to joining the euro to get membership and show how it intended to bring down its huge deficit, which is even larger than Greece’s.
Oh dear the news from German and independence support surging in Scotland - your world is starting to fall apart and all of your old certaintiesand prejudices with it.
Never mind have a drink put a bet of the Lib/Dems to win something.
So SindyRef2 nailed on then?
Should Scotland leave the UK and set up its own currency?
For sure, after a suitable period using our existing currency that we have a share in. Nice transition period to allow our money to be repatriated.
You've got a fortnight. Time to change the cash machines over.
This sounds like that the Abdulaziz defence where he claims he 'tripped' and fell into his rape victim. Unbelievably the jury who must be collectively thicker than the shortest planks believed that defence.
Oh dear the news from German and independence support surging in Scotland - your world is starting to fall apart and all of your old certaintiesand prejudices with it.
Never mind have a drink put a bet of the Lib/Dems to win something.
No poll yet has Yes ahead but of course with the UK now leaving the single market if an independent Scotland rejoins the EU that means border controls at Berwick and customs duties on Scottish exports to the UK which is where a majority of Scottish exports go
So there will be border patrol boats on the Tweed but not on the Foyle? Why?
Because there is an ocean (and a lot of bloody history) between the island of Ireland and Great Britain, so it makes sense to police migrants, trade, when they are on boats and planes heading to the mainland, thus avoiding a provocative hard border at Derry.
Indeed this is what is now being discussed: electronic monitoring of cars and citizens crossing into Ulster from Ireland, and more customs and policework on the ferries and planes.
The land border between Scotland and England is an entirely different matter. It would make a nonsense of our new tougher migration laws if any EU citizen could fly to Scotland then simply walk, bus or drive into England and look for work.
There would be some form of hard-ish border. And what about tariffs? I don't think (sadly) we will get completely tariff free and NTB-free access to the Single Market, so an iScotland in the EU would face tariffs on its goods, coming into England.
So passports required between one part of the UK and another?
You'd know that photo ID is already required to travel within the CTA, if you'd ever used it.....
Photo ID to walk across the border? Or are you confusing that will the need to show photo ID to get on a plane to Dublin?
Worse than that, SeanT has us having a hard border between Belfast and Liverpool – two cities that are in the same state.
Oh dear the news from German and independence support surging in Scotland - your world is starting to fall apart and all of your old certaintiesand prejudices with it.
Never mind have a drink put a bet of the Lib/Dems to win something.
No poll yet has Yes ahead but of course with the UK now leaving the single market if an independent Scotland rejoins the EU that means border controls at Berwick and customs duties on Scottish exports to the UK which is where a majority of Scottish exports go
So there will be border patrol boats on the Tweed but not on the Foyle? Why?
Because there is an ocean (and a lot of bloody history) between the island of Ireland and Great Britain, so it makes sense to police migrants, trade, when they are on boats and planes heading to the mainland, thus avoiding a provocative hard border at Derry.
Indeed this is what is now being discussed: electronic monitoring of cars and citizens crossing into Ulster from Ireland, and more customs and policework on the ferries and planes.
The land border between Scotland and England is an entirely different matter. It would make a nonsense of our new tougher migration laws if any EU citizen could fly to Scotland then simply walk, bus or drive into England and look for work.
There would be some form of hard-ish border. And what about tariffs? I don't think (sadly) we will get completely tariff free and NTB-free access to the Single Market, so an iScotland in the EU would face tariffs on its goods, coming into England.
So passports required between one part of the UK and another?
You'd know that photo ID is already required to travel within the CTA, if you'd ever used it.....
Sorry, to answer my question, will I need a passport to take a boat from Liverpool to Belfast? So a hard border between one part of the UK and another?
I think someone pointed out that that was the case during WWII, when Eire was neutral. Caused all sorts of ill-feelings. I recall a snippet from The Chequer Board (Nevil Shute) where a fight developed in a pub between an irishman and a Commando over whether or not the Irishman was taking secrets back to Dublin to tell the German Consul.
Oh dear the news from German and independence support surging in Scotland - your world is starting to fall apart and all of your old certaintiesand prejudices with it.
Never mind have a drink put a bet of the Lib/Dems to win something.
No poll yet has Yes ahead but of course with the UK now leaving the single market if an independent Scotland rejoins the EU that means border controls at Berwick and customs duties on Scottish exports to the UK which is where a majority of Scottish exports go
Why does that mean Border controls at Berwick? There are no border controls between Switzerland and - for example - Germany, and Switzerland is not part of the Single Market.
Oh dear the news from German and independence support surging in Scotland - your world is starting to fall apart and all of your old certaintiesand prejudices with it.
Never mind have a drink put a bet of the Lib/Dems to win something.
So SindyRef2 nailed on then?
Should Scotland leave the UK and set up its own currency?
For sure, after a suitable period using our existing currency that we have a share in. Nice transition period to allow our money to be repatriated.
You've got a fortnight. Time to change the cash machines over.
I simply do not grasp this mean-spirited attitude to Scots independence. If the Scots choose to be independent then we should wish them well as a friend and neighbour and suggest measures to make the transition work for both countries' benefit. Yet all I hear on here is this bile.
This sounds like that the Abdulaziz defence where he claims he 'tripped' and fell into his rape victim. Unbelievably the jury who must be collectively thicker than the shortest planks believed that defence.
If I ever get charged with a crime, I'd want his QC representing me.
Oh dear the news from German and independence support surging in Scotland - your world is starting to fall apart and all of your old certaintiesand prejudices with it.
Never mind have a drink put a bet of the Lib/Dems to win something.
No poll yet has Yes ahead but of course with the UK now leaving the single market if an independent Scotland rejoins the EU that means border controls at Berwick and customs duties on Scottish exports to the UK which is where a majority of Scottish exports go
So there will be border patrol boats on the Tweed but not on the Foyle? Why?
Because there is an ocean (and a lot of bloody history) between the island of Ireland and Great Britain, so it makes sense to police migrants, trade, when they are on boats and planes heading to the mainland, thus avoiding a provocative hard border at Derry.
Indeed this is what is now being discussed: electronic monitoring of cars and citizens crossing into Ulster from Ireland, and more customs and policework on the ferries and planes.
The land border between Scotland and England is an entirely different matter. It would make a nonsense of our new tougher migration laws if any EU citizen could fly to Scotland then simply walk, bus or drive into England and look for work.
There would be some form of hard-ish border. And what about tariffs? I don't think (sadly) we will get completely tariff free and NTB-free access to the Single Market, so an iScotland in the EU would face tariffs on its goods, coming into England.
So passports required between one part of the UK and another?
You'd know that photo ID is already required to travel within the CTA, if you'd ever used it.....
Sorry, to answer my question, will I need a passport to take a boat from Liverpool to Belfast? So a hard border between one part of the UK and another?
I think someone pointed out that that was the case during WWII, when Eire was neutral. Caused all sorts of ill-feelings. I recall a snippet from The Chequer Board (Nevil Shute) where a fight developed in a pub between an irishman and a Commando over whether or not the Irishman was taking secrets back to Dublin to tell the German Consul.
Yes, dangerously muddled thinking from the rightwing, eurosceptic Brit Nat brigade.
Oh dear the news from German and independence support surging in Scotland - your world is starting to fall apart and all of your old certaintiesand prejudices with it.
Never mind have a drink put a bet of the Lib/Dems to win something.
No poll yet has Yes ahead but of course with the UK now leaving the single market if an independent Scotland rejoins the EU that means border controls at Berwick and customs duties on Scottish exports to the UK which is where a majority of Scottish exports go
So there will be border patrol boats on the Tweed but not on the Foyle? Why?
Because there is an ocean (and a lot of bloody history) between the island of Ireland and Great Britain, so it makes sense to police migrants, trade, when they are on boats and planes heading to the mainland, thus avoiding a provocative hard border at Derry.
Indeed this is what is now being discussed: electronic monitoring of cars and citizens crossing into Ulster from Ireland, and more customs and policework on the ferries and planes.
The land border between Scotland and England is an entirely different matter. It would make a nonsense of our new tougher migration laws if any EU citizen could fly to Scotland then simply walk, bus or drive into England and look for work.
There would be some form of hard-ish border. And what about tariffs? I don't think (sadly) we will get completely tariff free and NTB-free access to the Single Market, so an iScotland in the EU would face tariffs on its goods, coming into England.
So passports required between one part of the UK and another?
You'd know that photo ID is already required to travel within the CTA, if you'd ever used it.....
Sorry, to answer my question, will I need a passport to take a boat from Liverpool to Belfast? So a hard border between one part of the UK and another?
You already have to show photo ID when you get off the boat from Belfast to Liverpool.
Remember when I went to that mega-posh party with lots of Sunday Times Rich List squillionaires, and reported back - to my own surprise - that most of them were Leavers?
I recall asking them about the risk to the City: all the bankers decamping to Paris and Frankfurt etc
They scoffed at the idea. "Hardly anyone will quit London.."
I still don't know whether they were talking posho bollocks, or had genuine insight.
Oh dear the news from German and independence support surging in Scotland - your world is starting to fall apart and all of your old certaintiesand prejudices with it.
Never mind have a drink put a bet of the Lib/Dems to win something.
No poll yet has Yes ahead but of course with the UK now leaving the single market if an independent Scotland rejoins the EU that means border controls at Berwick and customs duties on Scottish exports to the UK which is where a majority of Scottish exports go
So there will be border patrol boats on the Tweed but not on the Foyle? Why?
Because there is an ocean (and a lot of bloody history) between the island of Ireland and Great Britain, so it makes sense to police migrants, trade, when they are on boats and planes heading to the mainland, thus avoiding a provocative hard border at Derry.
Indeed this is what is now being discussed: electronic monitoring of cars and citizens crossing into Ulster from Ireland, and more customs and policework on the ferries and planes.
The land border between Scotland and England is an entirely different matter. It would make a nonsense of our new tougher migration laws if any EU citizen could fly to Scotland then simply walk, bus or drive into England and look for work.
There would be some form of hard-ish border. And what about tariffs? I don't think (sadly) we will get completely tariff free and NTB-free access to the Single Market, so an iScotland in the EU would face tariffs on its goods, coming into England.
So passports required between one part of the UK and another?
You'd know that photo ID is already required to travel within the CTA, if you'd ever used it.....
Sorry, to answer my question, will I need a passport to take a boat from Liverpool to Belfast? So a hard border between one part of the UK and another?
You already have to show photo ID when you get off the boat from Belfast to Liverpool.
I have to do that when I hire a car. Will I need a passport?
Oh dear the news from German and independence support surging in Scotland - your world is starting to fall apart and all of your old certaintiesand prejudices with it.
Never mind have a drink put a bet of the Lib/Dems to win something.
No poll yet has Yes ahead but of course with the UK now leaving the single market if an independent Scotland rejoins the EU that means border controls at Berwick and customs duties on Scottish exports to the UK which is where a majority of Scottish exports go
So there will be border patrol boats on the Tweed but not on the Foyle? Why?
Because there is an ocean (and a lot of bloody history) between the island of Ireland and Great Britain, so it makes sense to police migrants, trade, when they are on boats and planes heading to the mainland, thus avoiding a provocative hard border at Derry.
Indeed this is what is now being discussed: electronic monitoring of cars and citizens crossing into Ulster from Ireland, and more customs and policework on the ferries and planes.
The land border between Scotland and England is an entirely different matter. It would make a nonsense of our new tougher migration laws if any EU citizen could fly to Scotland then simply walk, bus or drive into England and look for work.
There would be some form of hard-ish border. And what about tariffs? I don't think (sadly) we will get completely tariff free and NTB-free access to the Single Market, so an iScotland in the EU would face tariffs on its goods, coming into England.
So passports required between one part of the UK and another?
You'd know that photo ID is already required to travel within the CTA, if you'd ever used it.....
I don't think that's true. I got the train from Belfast to Dublin* and didn't need to show any ID.
* It's very slow but quite fun. Sunil should definitely do it.
Oh dear the news from German and independence support surging in Scotland - your world is starting to fall apart and all of your old certaintiesand prejudices with it.
Never mind have a drink put a bet of the Lib/Dems to win something.
So SindyRef2 nailed on then?
Should Scotland leave the UK and set up its own currency?
For sure, after a suitable period using our existing currency that we have a share in. Nice transition period to allow our money to be repatriated.
You've got a fortnight. Time to change the cash machines over.
I simply do not grasp this mean-spirited attitude to Scots independence. If the Scots choose to be independent then we should wish them well as a friend and neighbour and suggest measures to make the transition work for both countries' benefit. Yet all I hear on here is this bile.
Fine. But not with the pound. Look what happened the last time a Scotsman had control over the pound. He destroyed the golden legacy left him by Ken Clarke.
An independent Scotland would start life outside the EU and be forced to join the queue for membership, the European Commission’s official representative in the UK has said in a major blow to Nicola Sturgeon’s Brexit strategy.
Jacqueline Minor said Jean Claude Juncker, the commission’s president, had made clear there would be no more states admitted until 2020 – the year after the UK is expected to leave the European Union. She said there are several countries waiting to become member states, including Montenegro and Serbia, and an independent Scotland “would join that list.” This would mean Scotland being outside both the UK and EU for an indeterminate period.
With the SNP’s leadership reviewing their stance on currency, she said a separate Scotland would have to commit in principle to joining the euro to get membership and show how it intended to bring down its huge deficit, which is even larger than Greece’s.
Not what she said on Scottish TV last night, but then why woudo you expect the lying Torygraph to be printing the truth.
So The National has got it wrong too?
Jacqueline Minor, the head of representation for the European Commission in the UK, warned Scotland would have to join a list of candidate countries, including Turkey Montenegro, Serbia, and Bosnia and Herzegovina.
Oh dear the news from German and independence support surging in Scotland - your world is starting to fall apart and all of your old certaintiesand prejudices with it.
Never mind have a drink put a bet of the Lib/Dems to win something.
So SindyRef2 nailed on then?
Should Scotland leave the UK and set up its own currency?
For sure, after a suitable period using our existing currency that we have a share in. Nice transition period to allow our money to be repatriated.
You've got a fortnight. Time to change the cash machines over.
I simply do not grasp this mean-spirited attitude to Scots independence. If the Scots choose to be independent then we should wish them well as a friend and neighbour and suggest measures to make the transition work for both countries' benefit. Yet all I hear on here is this bile.
Fully agree - but I suspect the empathy would evaporate the moment a newly independent Scotland refused to take on its share of the UK's debt.
888Sport Ronnie O'Sullivan conducted his post-match interview as a robot yesterday in protest at being fined for speaking his mind at the Masters. https://t.co/eqJg5mTjf9
An independent Scotland would start life outside the EU and be forced to join the queue for membership, the European Commission’s official representative in the UK has said in a major blow to Nicola Sturgeon’s Brexit strategy.
Jacqueline Minor said Jean Claude Juncker, the commission’s president, had made clear there would be no more states admitted until 2020 – the year after the UK is expected to leave the European Union. She said there are several countries waiting to become member states, including Montenegro and Serbia, and an independent Scotland “would join that list.” This would mean Scotland being outside both the UK and EU for an indeterminate period.
With the SNP’s leadership reviewing their stance on currency, she said a separate Scotland would have to commit in principle to joining the euro to get membership and show how it intended to bring down its huge deficit, which is even larger than Greece’s.
Not what she said on Scottish TV last night, but then why woudo you expect the lying Torygraph to be printing the truth.
So The National has got it wrong too?
Jacqueline Minor, the head of representation for the European Commission in the UK, warned Scotland would have to join a list of candidate countries, including Turkey Montenegro, Serbia, and Bosnia and Herzegovina.
Scotland joining would be much quicker than the Balkans, because it already meets all the accession criteria and all existing regulations are in place. It would all go through much more swiftly.
Unless, for example, one or more of the member states had secessionists they wished to discourage.....anyone spring to mind?
An independent Scotland would start life outside the EU and be forced to join the queue for membership, the European Commission’s official representative in the UK has said in a major blow to Nicola Sturgeon’s Brexit strategy.
Jacqueline Minor said Jean Claude Juncker, the commission’s president, had made clear there would be no more states admitted until 2020 – the year after the UK is expected to leave the European Union. She said there are several countries waiting to become member states, including Montenegro and Serbia, and an independent Scotland “would join that list.” This would mean Scotland being outside both the UK and EU for an indeterminate period.
With the SNP’s leadership reviewing their stance on currency, she said a separate Scotland would have to commit in principle to joining the euro to get membership and show how it intended to bring down its huge deficit, which is even larger than Greece’s.
Isn't radical reform of the French labour laws exactly what Fillon wants?
Good luck with that...hollande tried to get through the most minor labour reforms and it was all out war.
And Sarkozy before. No the city of London will not decamp en masse to Paris because of the French culture of big government, this culture is the same in most other European capitals.
This sounds like that the Abdulaziz defence where he claims he 'tripped' and fell into his rape victim. Unbelievably the jury who must be collectively thicker than the shortest planks believed that defence.
If I ever get charged with a crime, I'd want his QC representing me.
How can people buy that sort of defence, no matter who is putting it. In fact buy it they must have done - it is the only explanation... I wonder if the mortgages of the jury have disappeared, or any nice new cars arrived on the drive.
An independent Scotland would start life outside the EU and be forced to join the queue for membership, the European Commission’s official representative in the UK has said in a major blow to Nicola Sturgeon’s Brexit strategy.
Jacqueline Minor said Jean Claude Juncker, the commission’s president, had made clear there would be no more states admitted until 2020 – the year after the UK is expected to leave the European Union. She said there are several countries waiting to become member states, including Montenegro and Serbia, and an independent Scotland “would join that list.” This would mean Scotland being outside both the UK and EU for an indeterminate period.
With the SNP’s leadership reviewing their stance on currency, she said a separate Scotland would have to commit in principle to joining the euro to get membership and show how it intended to bring down its huge deficit, which is even larger than Greece’s.
An independent Scotland would start life outside the EU and be forced to join the queue for membership, the European Commission’s official representative in the UK has said in a major blow to Nicola Sturgeon’s Brexit strategy.
Jacqueline Minor said Jean Claude Juncker, the commission’s president, had made clear there would be no more states admitted until 2020 – the year after the UK is expected to leave the European Union. She said there are several countries waiting to become member states, including Montenegro and Serbia, and an independent Scotland “would join that list.” This would mean Scotland being outside both the UK and EU for an indeterminate period.
With the SNP’s leadership reviewing their stance on currency, she said a separate Scotland would have to commit in principle to joining the euro to get membership and show how it intended to bring down its huge deficit, which is even larger than Greece’s.
Not what she said on Scottish TV last night, but then why woudo you expect the lying Torygraph to be printing the truth.
So The National has got it wrong too?
Jacqueline Minor, the head of representation for the European Commission in the UK, warned Scotland would have to join a list of candidate countries, including Turkey Montenegro, Serbia, and Bosnia and Herzegovina.
Scotland joining would be much quicker than the Balkans, because it already meets all the accession criteria and all existing regulations are in place. It would all go through much more swiftly.
Oh dear the news from German and independence support surging in Scotland - your world is starting to fall apart and all of your old certaintiesand prejudices with it.
Never mind have a drink put a bet of the Lib/Dems to win something.
No poll yet has Yes ahead but of course with the UK now leaving the single market if an independent Scotland rejoins the EU that means border controls at Berwick and customs duties on Scottish exports to the UK which is where a majority of Scottish exports go
So there will be border patrol boats on the Tweed but not on the Foyle? Why?
Because there is an ocean (and a lot of bloody history) between the island of Ireland and Great Britain, so it makes sense to police migrants, trade, when they are on boats and planes heading to the mainland, thus avoiding a provocative hard border at Derry.
Indeed this is what is now being discussed: electronic monitoring of cars and citizens crossing into Ulster from Ireland, and more customs and policework on the ferries and planes.
The land border between Scotland and England is an entirely different matter. It would make a nonsense of our new tougher migration laws if any EU citizen could fly to Scotland then simply walk, bus or drive into England and look for work.
There would be some form of hard-ish border. And what about tariffs? I don't think (sadly) we will get completely tariff free and NTB-free access to the Single Market, so an iScotland in the EU would face tariffs on its goods, coming into England.
So passports required between one part of the UK and another?
You'd know that photo ID is already required to travel within the CTA, if you'd ever used it.....
Sorry, to answer my question, will I need a passport to take a boat from Liverpool to Belfast? So a hard border between one part of the UK and another?
You already have to show photo ID when you get off the boat from Belfast to Liverpool.
Not been to NI for a while but there was always de facto border control between GB and NI with the security forces/police scrutinising travellers in the 80's and 90's for sure.
The strip of water enables a blurring of hard/soft/de facto/de jure borders between ROI NI and GB if we want to be creative.
This sounds like that the Abdulaziz defence where he claims he 'tripped' and fell into his rape victim. Unbelievably the jury who must be collectively thicker than the shortest planks believed that defence.
If I ever get charged with a crime, I'd want his QC representing me.
Oh good, they have at long last repealed those pesky defamation laws, I take it?
Central Michigan College Republicans sorry for Hitler-themed Valentine's card (link: http://bit.ly/2lwfSdC) bit.ly/2lwfSdC
Am I the only one thinking that apart from being objectionable in the extreme, they are showing just how pig-shit thick they are by not knowing their thousands from their millions???
Oh dear the news from German and independence support surging in Scotland - your world is starting to fall apart and all of your old certaintiesand prejudices with it.
Never mind have a drink put a bet of the Lib/Dems to win something.
No poll yet has Yes ahead but of course with the UK now leaving the single market if an independent Scotland rejoins the EU that means border controls at Berwick and customs duties on Scottish exports to the UK which is where a majority of Scottish exports go
So there will be border patrol boats on the Tweed but not on the Foyle? Why?
Because there is an ocean (and a lot of bloody history) between the island of Ireland and Great Britain, so it makes sense to police migrants, trade, when they are on boats and planes heading to the mainland, thus avoiding a provocative hard border at Derry.
Indeed this is what is now being discussed: electronic monitoring of cars and citizens crossing into Ulster from Ireland, and more customs and policework on the ferries and planes.
The land border between Scotland and England is an entirely different matter. It would make a nonsense of our new tougher migration laws if any EU citizen could fly to Scotland then simply walk, bus or drive into England and look for work.
There would be some form of hard-ish border. And what about tariffs? I don't think (sadly) we will get completely tariff free and NTB-free access to the Single Market, so an iScotland in the EU would face tariffs on its goods, coming into England.
So passports required between one part of the UK and another?
You'd know that photo ID is already required to travel within the CTA, if you'd ever used it.....
Sorry, to answer my question, will I need a passport to take a boat from Liverpool to Belfast? So a hard border between one part of the UK and another?
You already have to show photo ID when you get off the boat from Belfast to Liverpool.
Or Holyhead to Dublin, or to get on the boat, or plane to or from the Channel Islands.....
An independent Scotland would start life outside the EU and be forced to join the queue for membership, the European Commission’s official representative in the UK has said in a major blow to Nicola Sturgeon’s Brexit strategy.
Jacqueline Minor said Jean Claude Juncker, the commission’s president, had made clear there would be no more states admitted until 2020 – the year after the UK is expected to leave the European Union. She said there are several countries waiting to become member states, including Montenegro and Serbia, and an independent Scotland “would join that list.” This would mean Scotland being outside both the UK and EU for an indeterminate period.
With the SNP’s leadership reviewing their stance on currency, she said a separate Scotland would have to commit in principle to joining the euro to get membership and show how it intended to bring down its huge deficit, which is even larger than Greece’s.
...she said, Scotland, unlike other countries, would already meet much of the criteria of membership
Front of the queue.
Seems if you ask two EU officials about Scotland, you get three opinions. I'd love to see a well-argued thread by a Nat about EXACTLY how they see things panning out once Article 50 is triggered. Showing their workings, not just vague, bombastic assertions. Any takers?
Perhaps you could regale us with Hard Brexit and Tory disaster plans then
Oh dear the news from German and independence support surging in Scotland - your world is starting to fall apart and all of your old certaintiesand prejudices with it.
Never mind have a drink put a bet of the Lib/Dems to win something.
So SindyRef2 nailed on then?
Should Scotland leave the UK and set up its own currency?
For sure, after a suitable period using our existing currency that we have a share in. Nice transition period to allow our money to be repatriated.
You've got a fortnight. Time to change the cash machines over.
I simply do not grasp this mean-spirited attitude to Scots independence. If the Scots choose to be independent then we should wish them well as a friend and neighbour and suggest measures to make the transition work for both countries' benefit. Yet all I hear on here is this bile.
Could not agree more. Why would England want to make life as tough as possible for a country with which we have shared a history for hundreds of years and with which we have such close ties in every area imaginable? I would love the Union to stay together, but we have to face facts: England and Scotland are drifting apart - just as England drifted away from the EU. We asked for the EU to reform, it said no, so we voted to leave. There is maybe an opportunity for a constitutional convention here to grasp the nettle that the EU 27 would not grasp, but the chances of that happening are low. In which case, sad as it is, it is probably best for us to go our separate ways with as much good grace and goodwill as possible. Basically, every reason that Leavers gave for the UK to leave the EU apply to Scotland leaving the Union.
Oh dear the news from German and independence support surging in Scotland - your world is starting to fall apart and all of your old certaintiesand prejudices with it.
Never mind have a drink put a bet of the Lib/Dems to win something.
No poll yet has Yes ahead but of course with the UK now leaving the single market if an independent Scotland rejoins the EU that means border controls at Berwick and customs duties on Scottish exports to the UK which is where a majority of Scottish exports go
So there will be border patrol boats on the Tweed but not on the Foyle? Why?
Because there is an ocean (and a lot of bloody history) between the island of Ireland and Great Britain, so it makes sense to police migrants, trade, when they are on boats and planes heading to the mainland, thus avoiding a provocative hard border at Derry.
Indeed this is what is now being discussed: electronic monitoring of cars and citizens crossing into Ulster from Ireland, and more customs and policework on the ferries and planes.
The land border between Scotland and England is an entirely different matter. It would make a nonsense of our new tougher migration laws if any EU citizen could fly to Scotland then simply walk, bus or drive into England and look for work.
There would be some form of hard-ish border. And what about tariffs? I don't think (sadly) we will get completely tariff free and NTB-free access to the Single Market, so an iScotland in the EU would face tariffs on its goods, coming into England.
So passports required between one part of the UK and another?
You'd know that photo ID is already required to travel within the CTA, if you'd ever used it.....
Sorry, to answer my question, will I need a passport to take a boat from Liverpool to Belfast? So a hard border between one part of the UK and another?
You already have to show photo ID when you get off the boat from Belfast to Liverpool.
Or Holyhead to Dublin, or to get on the boat, or plane to or from the Channel Islands.....
Hmmm: I showed my passport getting on to a plane to Guernsey, but there was no passport control on arrival. Has that changed recently?
Oh dear the news from German and independence support surging in Scotland - your world is starting to fall apart and all of your old certaintiesand prejudices with it.
Never mind have a drink put a bet of the Lib/Dems to win something.
So SindyRef2 nailed on then?
Should Scotland leave the UK and set up its own currency?
For sure, after a suitable period using our existing currency that we have a share in. Nice transition period to allow our money to be repatriated.
You've got a fortnight. Time to change the cash machines over.
I simply do not grasp this mean-spirited attitude to Scots independence. If the Scots choose to be independent then we should wish them well as a friend and neighbour and suggest measures to make the transition work for both countries' benefit. Yet all I hear on here is this bile.
Ironically, many of the Indy Scotland-bashers are at the same time vehement Britain will get a good Brexit deal because the EU will not want to spite us.
An independent Scotland would start life outside the EU and be forced to join the queue for membership, the European Commission’s official representative in the UK has said in a major blow to Nicola Sturgeon’s Brexit strategy.
Jacqueline Minor said Jean Claude Juncker, the commission’s president, had made clear there would be no more states admitted until 2020 – the year after the UK is expected to leave the European Union. She said there are several countries waiting to become member states, including Montenegro and Serbia, and an independent Scotland “would join that list.” This would mean Scotland being outside both the UK and EU for an indeterminate period.
With the SNP’s leadership reviewing their stance on currency, she said a separate Scotland would have to commit in principle to joining the euro to get membership and show how it intended to bring down its huge deficit, which is even larger than Greece’s.
The land border between Scotland and England is an entirely different matter. It would make a nonsense of our new tougher migration laws if any EU citizen could fly to Scotland then simply walk, bus or drive into England and look for work..
Why? They could simply fly to Gatwick or get the Eurostar to London. Why would they go via Scotland? I think that (like many people) you are confusing border controls with permission to reside and work here. The two are unrelated.
Oh dear the news from German and independence support surging in Scotland - your world is starting to fall apart and all of your old certaintiesand prejudices with it.
Never mind have a drink put a bet of the Lib/Dems to win something.
No poll yet has Yes ahead but of course with the UK now leaving the single market if an independent Scotland rejoins the EU that means border controls at Berwick and customs duties on Scottish exports to the UK which is where a majority of Scottish exports go
So there will be border patrol boats on the Tweed but not on the Foyle? Why?
Because there is an ocean (and a lot of bloody history) between the island of Ireland and Great Britain, so it makes sense to police migrants, trade, when they are on boats and planes heading to the mainland, thus avoiding a provocative hard border at Derry.
Indeed this is what is now being discussed: electronic monitoring of cars and citizens crossing into Ulster from Ireland, and more customs and policework on the ferries and planes.
The land border between Scotland and England is an entirely different matter. It would make a nonsense of our new tougher migration laws if any EU citizen could fly to Scotland then simply walk, bus or drive into England and look for work.
There would be some form of hard-ish border. And what about tariffs? I don't think (sadly) we will get completely tariff free and NTB-free access to the Single Market, so an iScotland in the EU would face tariffs on its goods, coming into England.
So passports required between one part of the UK and another?
You'd know that photo ID is already required to travel within the CTA, if you'd ever used it.....
Sorry, to answer my question, will I need a passport to take a boat from Liverpool to Belfast? So a hard border between one part of the UK and another?
You already have to show photo ID when you get off the boat from Belfast to Liverpool.
Not been to NI for a while but there was always de facto border control between GB and NI with the security forces/police scrutinising travellers in the 80's and 90's for sure.
The strip of water enables a blurring of hard/soft/de facto/de jure borders between ROI NI and GB if we want to be creative.
Which is what we did during the Second World War.
But I don't understand why we'd want to get rid of the Common Travel Area. It's been an enormous positive for all the members of the British Isles.
Oh dear the news from German and independence support surging in Scotland - your world is starting to fall apart and all of your old certaintiesand prejudices with it.
Never mind have a drink put a bet of the Lib/Dems to win something.
So SindyRef2 nailed on then?
Should Scotland leave the UK and set up its own currency?
For sure, after a suitable period using our existing currency that we have a share in. Nice transition period to allow our money to be repatriated.
You've got a fortnight. Time to change the cash machines over.
Anyone can use the pound and as we are joint owners we can even more easily use it as long as we wish.
Oh dear the news from German and independence support surging in Scotland - your world is starting to fall apart and all of your old certaintiesand prejudices with it.
Never mind have a drink put a bet of the Lib/Dems to win something.
No poll yet has Yes ahead but of course with the UK now leaving the single market if an independent Scotland rejoins the EU that means border controls at Berwick and customs duties on Scottish exports to the UK which is where a majority of Scottish exports go
So there will be border patrol boats on the Tweed but not on the Foyle? Why?
Because there is an ocean (and a lot of bloody history) between the island of Ireland and Great Britain, so it makes sense to police migrants, trade, when they are on boats and planes heading to the mainland, thus avoiding a provocative hard border at Derry.
Indeed this is what is now being discussed: electronic monitoring of cars and citizens crossing into Ulster from Ireland, and more customs and policework on the ferries and planes.
The land border between Scotland and England is an entirely different matter. It would make a nonsense of our new tougher migration laws if any EU citizen could fly to Scotland then simply walk, bus or drive into England and look for work.
There would be some form of hard-ish border. And what about tariffs? I don't think (sadly) we will get completely tariff free and NTB-free access to the Single Market, so an iScotland in the EU would face tariffs on its goods, coming into England.
So passports required between one part of the UK and another?
You'd know that photo ID is already required to travel within the CTA, if you'd ever used it.....
I don't think that's true. I got the train from Belfast to Dublin* and didn't need to show any ID.
* It's very slow but quite fun. Sunil should definitely do it.
Maybe not the Irish land border - but any crossing of water, in my experience requires it (UK>CI, UK>Eire)
These borders are making my head spin. Currently I can take a train from my village across a (possibly hard) border to Stranraer, get on the ferry to another (possibly hard) border in Larne, and take another train across a (possibly hard) border to the Republic. Flying seems more preferable.
An independent Scotland would start life outside the EU and be forced to join the queue for membership, the European Commission’s official representative in the UK has said in a major blow to Nicola Sturgeon’s Brexit strategy.
Jacqueline Minor said Jean Claude Juncker, the commission’s president, had made clear there would be no more states admitted until 2020 – the year after the UK is expected to leave the European Union. She said there are several countries waiting to become member states, including Montenegro and Serbia, and an independent Scotland “would join that list.” This would mean Scotland being outside both the UK and EU for an indeterminate period.
With the SNP’s leadership reviewing their stance on currency, she said a separate Scotland would have to commit in principle to joining the euro to get membership and show how it intended to bring down its huge deficit, which is even larger than Greece’s.
...she said, Scotland, unlike other countries, would already meet much of the criteria of membership
Front of the queue.
Seems if you ask two EU officials about Scotland, you get three opinions. I'd love to see a well-argued thread by a Nat about EXACTLY how they see things panning out once Article 50 is triggered. Showing their workings, not just vague, bombastic assertions. Any takers?
Perhaps you could regale us with Hard Brexit and Tory disaster plans then
This sounds like that the Abdulaziz defence where he claims he 'tripped' and fell into his rape victim. Unbelievably the jury who must be collectively thicker than the shortest planks believed that defence.
If I ever get charged with a crime, I'd want his QC representing me.
How can people buy that sort of defence, no matter who is putting it. In fact buy it they must have done - it is the only explanation... I wonder if the mortgages of the jury have disappeared, or any nice new cars arrived on the drive.
Depends on how credible the complainant was. Look at the recent Harris trial.
All adds to the pressure on women who do suffer in this fashion, but equally the last thing anyone wants is an incorrect conviction.
But I don't understand why we'd want to get rid of the Common Travel Area. It's been an enormous positive for all the members of the British Isles.
Based on all the practical challenges, as well as May's track record on immigration, I suspect that freedom of movement in general is not a red line for her but just a bargaining chip that she plans to make a very theatrical climb-down over in return for something on trade or legal jurisdiction that she really wants.
Oh dear the news from German and independence support surging in Scotland - your world is starting to fall apart and all of your old certaintiesand prejudices with it.
Never mind have a drink put a bet of the Lib/Dems to win something.
No poll yet has Yes ahead but of course with the UK now leaving the single market if an independent Scotland rejoins the EU that means border controls at Berwick and customs duties on Scottish exports to the UK which is where a majority of Scottish exports go
So there will be border patrol boats on the Tweed but not on the Foyle? Why?
Because there is an ocean (and a lot of bloody history) between the island of Ireland and Great Britain, so it makes sense to police migrants, trade, when they are on boats and planes heading to the mainland, thus avoiding a provocative hard border at Derry.
Indeed this is what is now being discussed: electronic monitoring of cars and citizens crossing into Ulster from Ireland, and more customs and policework on the ferries and planes.
The land border between Scotland and England is an entirely different matter. It would make a nonsense of our new tougher migration laws if any EU citizen could fly to Scotland then simply walk, bus or drive into England and look for work.
There would be some form of hard-ish border. And what about tariffs? I don't think (sadly) we will get completely tariff free and NTB-free access to the Single Market, so an iScotland in the EU would face tariffs on its goods, coming into England.
So passports required between one part of the UK and another?
You'd know that photo ID is already required to travel within the CTA, if you'd ever used it.....
Sorry, to answer my question, will I need a passport to take a boat from Liverpool to Belfast? So a hard border between one part of the UK and another?
You already have to show photo ID when you get off the boat from Belfast to Liverpool.
Or Holyhead to Dublin, or to get on the boat, or plane to or from the Channel Islands.....
Hmmm: I showed my passport getting on to a plane to Guernsey, but there was no passport control on arrival. Has that changed recently?
It is a flight security thing I think. I had to show a passport (or other official photo ID) when flying to Edinburgh and also for Scilly.
Oh dear the news from German and independence support surging in Scotland - your world is starting to fall apart and all of your old certaintiesand prejudices with it.
Never mind have a drink put a bet of the Lib/Dems to win something.
So SindyRef2 nailed on then?
Should Scotland leave the UK and set up its own currency?
For sure, after a suitable period using our existing currency that we have a share in. Nice transition period to allow our money to be repatriated.
You've got a fortnight. Time to change the cash machines over.
I simply do not grasp this mean-spirited attitude to Scots independence. If the Scots choose to be independent then we should wish them well as a friend and neighbour and suggest measures to make the transition work for both countries' benefit. Yet all I hear on here is this bile.
Ironically, many of the Indy Scotland-bashers are at the same time vehement Britain will get a good Brexit deal because the EU will not want to spite us.
You really trying to equate Scotland and the UK? Yes, that's really happening in the capitals of the EU.... *rolls eyes*
The people of Scotland have recently said they want to stay in the UK. The people of the UK have recently said they want to leave the EU. That's the reality.
But I don't understand why we'd want to get rid of the Common Travel Area. It's been an enormous positive for all the members of the British Isles.
Based on all the practical challenges, as well as May's track record on immigration, I suspect that freedom of movement in general is not a red line for her but just a bargaining chip that she plans to make a very theatrical climb-down over in return for something on trade or legal jurisdiction that she really wants.
Just before she loses either her job or her majority, depending which happens the fastest.
Oh dear the news from German and independence support surging in Scotland - your world is starting to fall apart and all of your old certaintiesand prejudices with it.
Never mind have a drink put a bet of the Lib/Dems to win something.
No poll yet has Yes ahead but of course with the UK now leaving the single market if an independent Scotland rejoins the EU that means border controls at Berwick and customs duties on Scottish exports to the UK which is where a majority of Scottish exports go
Why does that mean Border controls at Berwick? There are no border controls between Switzerland and - for example - Germany, and Switzerland is not part of the Single Market.
Switzerland is in Schengen.
And Scotland would be in the Common Travel Area.
Given that would require EU treaty change I wouldn't bet on it.
This sounds like that the Abdulaziz defence where he claims he 'tripped' and fell into his rape victim. Unbelievably the jury who must be collectively thicker than the shortest planks believed that defence.
If I ever get charged with a crime, I'd want his QC representing me.
How can people buy that sort of defence, no matter who is putting it. In fact buy it they must have done - it is the only explanation... I wonder if the mortgages of the jury have disappeared, or any nice new cars arrived on the drive.
This man has virtually limitless funds, a shit hot QC, and a not guilty verdict. Libel and slander are actionable torts. Think about it.
Oh dear the news from German and independence support surging in Scotland - your world is starting to fall apart and all of your old certaintiesand prejudices with it.
Never mind have a drink put a bet of the Lib/Dems to win something.
No poll yet has Yes ahead but of course with the UK now leaving the single market if an independent Scotland rejoins the EU that means border controls at Berwick and customs duties on Scottish exports to the UK which is where a majority of Scottish exports go
So there will be border patrol boats on the Tweed but not on the Foyle? Why?
Because there is an ocean (and a lot of bloody history) between the island of Ireland and Great Britain, so it makes sense to police migrants, trade, when they are on boats and planes heading to the mainland, thus avoiding a provocative hard border at Derry.
Indeed this is what is now being discussed: electronic monitoring of cars and citizens crossing into Ulster from Ireland, and more customs and policework on the ferries and planes.
The land border between Scotland and England is an entirely different matter. It would make a nonsense of our new tougher migration laws if any EU citizen could fly to Scotland then simply walk, bus or drive into England and look for work.
There would be some form of hard-ish border. And what about tariffs? I don't think (sadly) we will get completely tariff free and NTB-free access to the Single Market, so an iScotland in the EU would face tariffs on its goods, coming into England.
So passports required between one part of the UK and another?
You'd know that photo ID is already required to travel within the CTA, if you'd ever used it.....
Sorry, to answer my question, will I need a passport to take a boat from Liverpool to Belfast? So a hard border between one part of the UK and another?
You already have to show photo ID when you get off the boat from Belfast to Liverpool.
Or Holyhead to Dublin, or to get on the boat, or plane to or from the Channel Islands.....
Hmmm: I showed my passport getting on to a plane to Guernsey, but there was no passport control on arrival. Has that changed recently?
No - but you need photo ID to get on the plane (or ferry) - so unless you are planning on swimming, you'll need photo id
Oh dear the news from German and independence support surging in Scotland - your world is starting to fall apart and all of your old certaintiesand prejudices with it.
Never mind have a drink put a bet of the Lib/Dems to win something.
So SindyRef2 nailed on then?
Should Scotland leave the UK and set up its own currency?
For sure, after a suitable period using our existing currency that we have a share in. Nice transition period to allow our money to be repatriated.
You've got a fortnight. Time to change the cash machines over.
I simply do not grasp this mean-spirited attitude to Scots independence. If the Scots choose to be independent then we should wish them well as a friend and neighbour and suggest measures to make the transition work for both countries' benefit. Yet all I hear on here is this bile.
They're almost precisely the same cohort that comfort themselves with the idea that the EU is dying to be as constructive as possible in dealing with mighty Brexit UK. Of course we've all seen how easily they flip into 'crazy, EUSSR, punishment beating bastards' mode - bipolar doesn't really cover it.
The land border between Scotland and England is an entirely different matter. It would make a nonsense of our new tougher migration laws if any EU citizen could fly to Scotland then simply walk, bus or drive into England and look for work..
Why? They could simply fly to Gatwick or get the Eurostar to London. Why would they go via Scotland? I think that (like many people) you are confusing border controls with permission to reside and work here. The two are unrelated.
Unless we plan to require visas for all EU visitors then flying to Stansted would be the easiest way in, followed by working illegally. No need to go via Scotland.
Isn't radical reform of the French labour laws exactly what Fillon wants?
Good luck with that...hollande tried to get through the most minor labour reforms and it was all out war.
And Sarkozy before. No the city of London will not decamp en masse to Paris because of the French culture of big government, this culture is the same in most other European capitals.
Watching that bbc2 last night it was clear in places like France and Italy the solutions that you can choose from is bigger ever closer EU protectism or outsider 5* / FN pitch of bigger national protectionist government. neither of which is going to be attractive to ultra free market city trading firms.
I am green on Balls, Kinnock and Thornberry. If Kinnock wins I might have to find someone to propose to because I will be able to afford a honeymoon in Bora Bora.
But I don't understand why we'd want to get rid of the Common Travel Area. It's been an enormous positive for all the members of the British Isles.
Based on all the practical challenges, as well as May's track record on immigration, I suspect that freedom of movement in general is not a red line for her but just a bargaining chip that she plans to make a very theatrical climb-down over in return for something on trade or legal jurisdiction that she really wants.
Just before she loses either her job or her majority, depending which happens the fastest.
Fear of migration for most of the Tory Kipper tendency was just a useful way to get people to vote against the EU, not something they personally care about.
This sounds like that the Abdulaziz defence where he claims he 'tripped' and fell into his rape victim. Unbelievably the jury who must be collectively thicker than the shortest planks believed that defence.
If I ever get charged with a crime, I'd want his QC representing me.
How can people buy that sort of defence, no matter who is putting it. In fact buy it they must have done - it is the only explanation... I wonder if the mortgages of the jury have disappeared, or any nice new cars arrived on the drive.
This man has virtually limitless funds, a shit hot QC, and a not guilty verdict. Libel and slander are actionable torts. Think about it.
I've expressed my genuinely held beliefs on the subject, I'll drop it now anyhow.
Miss Vance, independence means independence, to coin a phrase.
Any UK (ex-Scotland, post-independence) party proposing putting the UK taxpayer on the hook in case of a financial institution's collapse in Scotland would get slaughtered at the ballot box.
Oh dear the news from German and independence support surging in Scotland - your world is starting to fall apart and all of your old certaintiesand prejudices with it.
Never mind have a drink put a bet of the Lib/Dems to win something.
So SindyRef2 nailed on then?
Should Scotland leave the UK and set up its own currency?
For sure, after a suitable period using our existing currency that we have a share in. Nice transition period to allow our money to be repatriated.
You've got a fortnight. Time to change the cash machines over.
Anyone can use the pound and as we are joint owners we can even more easily use it as long as we wish.
Comfort yourself with that delusion Malc. All UK parties (except the Nats) have said unequivocally 'No Way'. The Pound is a UK institution. You leave the UK, you leave the Pound. You don't get to dictate here. Currency is THE issue to get resolved before Scotland has a hope of independence.
But I don't understand why we'd want to get rid of the Common Travel Area. It's been an enormous positive for all the members of the British Isles.
Based on all the practical challenges, as well as May's track record on immigration, I suspect that freedom of movement in general is not a red line for her but just a bargaining chip that she plans to make a very theatrical climb-down over in return for something on trade or legal jurisdiction that she really wants.
Just before she loses either her job or her majority, depending which happens the fastest.
Fear of migration for most of the Tory Kipper tendency was just a useful way to get people to vote against the EU, not something they personally care about.
At the very least there will be enough letters on Graham Brady's desk to subject her to a challenge which having given away FoM she will probably lose, because:
About half of the 52% care a lot about it though, and there will be a general election within a year of the final deal being done, if she ditches freedom of movement and is very lucky they will stay at home and she will lose her majority.
Miss Vance, independence means independence, to coin a phrase.
Any UK (ex-Scotland, post-independence) party proposing putting the UK taxpayer on the hook in case of a financial institution's collapse in Scotland would get slaughtered at the ballot box.
Or indeed propose picking up the bill for Scottish Pensions.......but look on the bright side, finally the Nats will be able to collect that fabled Whisky Export Duty
Mr. G, use the pound, yes. But an independent Scotland does not have the power to unilaterally compel a currency union with a nation from which it just voted to separate, and there is no appetite for such a currency union south of the border.
So, using the pound could happen, but without a lender of last resort.
Mr. Observer, I hope the UK stays together. If Scotland does depart, then good relations would be beneficial for both sides.
Currency remains a major problem for independence advocates. Why they don't just say they'll have a Scottish pound is beyond me.
Because then they'll need a Central Bank in Edinburgh and have to raise their own debt. The sums currently don't look pretty.
Who cares. It's a price worth paying and in 20 years all will be good.
Moving north are you?
Only for a day trip on Virgin East Coast (bliss). But what I don't understand is that both Brexit and Scots independence by common consent will cause short- to mid-term economic disruption to a greater or lesser degree.
And yet the very people, let's call them PB Leavers, who say that for Brexit it is a price worth paying, in the long run all will be well, there are more important things to worry about than the economics....are the very same people who decry the Scots for wanting to take an equally economically-disadvantaging decision themselves.
I would have no problem with the Scots going, and one way or the other they would make it work I am sure. The financial pain, should there be any, will be compensated for by the fact of independence.
I would have no problem with the Scots going, and one way or the other they would make it work I am sure. The financial pain, should there be any, will be compensated for by the fact of independence.
I would have no problem with the Scots going, and one way or the other they would make it work I am sure. The financial pain, should there be any, will be compensated for by the fact of independence.
I just hope my backing hasn't made TUD a loyalist
Since you're opinion matters less than a sparrow fart in this issue, no.
I would have no problem with the Scots going, and one way or the other they would make it work I am sure. The financial pain, should there be any, will be compensated for by the fact of independence.
Mr. Observer, I hope the UK stays together. If Scotland does depart, then good relations would be beneficial for both sides.
Currency remains a major problem for independence advocates. Why they don't just say they'll have a Scottish pound is beyond me.
Because then they'll need a Central Bank in Edinburgh and have to raise their own debt. The sums currently don't look pretty.
Who cares. It's a price worth paying and in 20 years all will be good.
Moving north are you?
Only for a day trip on Virgin East Coast (bliss). But what I don't understand is that both Brexit and Scots independence by common consent will cause short- to mid-term economic disruption to a greater or lesser degree.
And yet the very people, let's call them PB Leavers, who say that for Brexit it is a price worth paying, in the long run all will be well, there are more important things to worry about than the economics....are the very same people who decry the Scots for wanting to take an equally economically-disadvantaging decision themselves.
That's too broad brush. Several prominent Leavers have been saying Bon Chance to the Scots for quite a while now for exactly that reason. The Scots can leave any time they want as far as I am concerned, but independence means independence, its got to be a clean-break divorce with no outstanding long term liabilities for the rUK.
@Southamobserver Looks like a poor move to me by her, I have no idea if the Jewish diaspora in France has political views of any sort of similiarity with that of Israel - but the Israelis did prefer someone on the reasonably hard right in their elections recently. She might have lost some votes here.
Mr. G, use the pound, yes. But an independent Scotland does not have the power to unilaterally compel a currency union with a nation from which it just voted to separate, and there is no appetite for such a currency union south of the border.
So, using the pound could happen, but without a lender of last resort.
Why would we not agree to a currency union? Sour grapes?
An independent Scotland would start life outside the EU and be forced to join the queue for membership, the European Commission’s official representative in the UK has said in a major blow to Nicola Sturgeon’s Brexit strategy.
Jacqueline Minor said Jean Claude Juncker, the commission’s president, had made clear there would be no more states admitted until 2020 – the year after the UK is expected to leave the European Union. She said there are several countries waiting to become member states, including Montenegro and Serbia, and an independent Scotland “would join that list.” This would mean Scotland being outside both the UK and EU for an indeterminate period.
With the SNP’s leadership reviewing their stance on currency, she said a separate Scotland would have to commit in principle to joining the euro to get membership and show how it intended to bring down its huge deficit, which is even larger than Greece’s.
Not what she said on Scottish TV last night, but then why woudo you expect the lying Torygraph to be printing the truth.
So The National has got it wrong too?
Jacqueline Minor, the head of representation for the European Commission in the UK, warned Scotland would have to join a list of candidate countries, including Turkey Montenegro, Serbia, and Bosnia and Herzegovina.
Scotland joining would be much quicker than the Balkans, because it already meets all the accession criteria and all existing regulations are in place. It would all go through much more swiftly.
Yes. Still possibility of years, I suppose, but there's only so much to drag it out when it's known Scotland is an acceptable admission.
I would have no problem with the Scots going, and one way or the other they would make it work I am sure. The financial pain, should there be any, will be compensated for by the fact of independence.
I just hope my backing hasn't made TUD a loyalist
Since you're opinion matters less than a sparrow fart in this issue, no.
Oh dear the news from German and independence support surging in Scotland - your world is starting to fall apart and all of your old certaintiesand prejudices with it.
Never mind have a drink put a bet of the Lib/Dems to win something.
So SindyRef2 nailed on then?
Should Scotland leave the UK and set up its own currency?
For sure, after a suitable period using our existing currency that we have a share in. Nice transition period to allow our money to be repatriated.
You've got a fortnight. Time to change the cash machines over.
Anyone can use the pound and as we are joint owners we can even more easily use it as long as we wish.
Comfort yourself with that delusion Malc. All UK parties (except the Nats) have said unequivocally 'No Way'. The Pound is a UK institution. You leave the UK, you leave the Pound. You don't get to dictate here. Currency is THE issue to get resolved before Scotland has a hope of independence.
@Southamobserver Looks like a poor move to me by her, I have no idea if the Jewish diaspora in France has political views of any sort of similiarity with that of Israel - but the Israelis did prefer someone on the reasonably hard right in their elections recently. She might have lost some votes here.
Oh dear the news from German and independence support surging in Scotland - your world is starting to fall apart and all of your old certaintiesand prejudices with it.
Never mind have a drink put a bet of the Lib/Dems to win something.
No poll yet has Yes ahead but of course with the UK now leaving the single market if an independent Scotland rejoins the EU that means border controls at Berwick and customs duties on Scottish exports to the UK which is where a majority of Scottish exports go
Why does that mean Border controls at Berwick? There are no border controls between Switzerland and - for example - Germany, and Switzerland is not part of the Single Market.
Switzerland is in Schengen.
And Scotland would be in the Common Travel Area.
Given that would require EU treaty change I wouldn't bet on it.
No it doesn't. The reaties explicitly recognise the Common Travel Area
Isn't radical reform of the French labour laws exactly what Fillon wants?
Good luck with that...hollande tried to get through the most minor labour reforms and it was all out war.
And Sarkozy before. No the city of London will not decamp en masse to Paris because of the French culture of big government, this culture is the same in most other European capitals.
Watching that bbc2 last night it was clear in places like France and Italy the solutions that you can choose from is bigger ever closer EU protectism or outsider 5* / FN pitch of bigger national protectionist government. neither of which is going to be attractive to ultra free market city trading firms.
It was an interesting programme. There did seem to be an acknowledgment by some that the EU has been less than wonderful, but if they wanted to improve it, that they would have to work harder. Without ANY ideas being offered as to how that would be implemented. You have to assume that if the EU had the tools to work harder, they'd be using them. So implicit in that response is that they need more tools.
More EU, Harder EU. More centralisation, less national autonomy. At no point did anyone think the EU might have to row back on its ambitions.
The people of the UK made a very good call last year.
Mr. Bob, because having the UK taxpayer as lender of last resort for a part of the world that would have voted to leave the UK is unjust.
I'm perplexed as to why Scots who want [many, though not all] to leave also want to immediately hand their monetary policy to what would then be a foreign country.
Why would we not agree to a currency union? Sour grapes?
Practical finance and politics - you make financial policy to benefit your own country and electorate. The issues and needs of another country are not your concern. If rUK finance policy is detrimental to IndyScotland's needs then IndyScotland will have to live with it. No government in rUK would survive long if it implemented policies to benefit an external country to its own disadvantage.
Mr. G, use the pound, yes. But an independent Scotland does not have the power to unilaterally compel a currency union with a nation from which it just voted to separate, and there is no appetite for such a currency union south of the border.
So, using the pound could happen, but without a lender of last resort.
In the good old days (the nineteenth century) there were no lenders of last resort and we allowed banks to simply go bust.
Mr. Observer, I hope the UK stays together. If Scotland does depart, then good relations would be beneficial for both sides.
Currency remains a major problem for independence advocates. Why they don't just say they'll have a Scottish pound is beyond me.
Because then they'll need a Central Bank in Edinburgh and have to raise their own debt. The sums currently don't look pretty.
Who cares. It's a price worth paying and in 20 years all will be good.
Moving north are you?
Only for a day trip on Virgin East Coast (bliss). But what I don't understand is that both Brexit and Scots independence by common consent will cause short- to mid-term economic disruption to a greater or lesser degree.
And yet the very people, let's call them PB Leavers, who say that for Brexit it is a price worth paying, in the long run all will be well, there are more important things to worry about than the economics....are the very same people who decry the Scots for wanting to take an equally economically-disadvantaging decision themselves.
That's too broad brush. Several prominent Leavers have been saying Bon Chance to the Scots for quite a while now for exactly that reason. The Scots can leave any time they want as far as I am concerned, but independence means independence, its got to be a clean-break divorce with no outstanding long term liabilities for the rUK.
Well there was a good paper by the Leavers' least favourite economic think tank on the division of assets and liabilities should there be an Independent Scotland. Essentially (I might be misremembering) they would buy out those liabilities at their present value after netting off assets.
So, using the pound could happen, but without a lender of last resort.
Precisely. But that puts Scotland on a par with Panama and the USD. Panama has amazingly strong banks and a severely strict banking code - exactly because it has no lender of last resort. If a Panamanian bank gets in trouble their depositors are going to lose everything. Panama is also a tax haven. I think Scotland can chosee the Pound or it can choose socialism. But not both.
Oh dear the news from German and independence support surging in Scotland - your world is starting to fall apart and all of your old certaintiesand prejudices with it.
Never mind have a drink put a bet of the Lib/Dems to win something.
So SindyRef2 nailed on then?
Should Scotland leave the UK and set up its own currency?
For sure, after a suitable period using our existing currency that we have a share in. Nice transition period to allow our money to be repatriated.
You've got a fortnight. Time to change the cash machines over.
I simply do not grasp this mean-spirited attitude to Scots independence. If the Scots choose to be independent then we should wish them well as a friend and neighbour and suggest measures to make the transition work for both countries' benefit. Yet all I hear on here is this bile.
It's the same as Brexit only even more emotional. It makes sense for everyone to be good friends and neighbours in such situations, but as we well know, some on all sides for different reasons and political realities, fuelled by emotion, advocate bitterness and stubbornness even if it is self harming.
The hope would be saner heads prevail over time, but it'll take grown up concessions in the event, and each side has reason to get their backs up when that is suggested, so any exits are more likely than not going to be messy.
I would have no problem with the Scots going, and one way or the other they would make it work I am sure. The financial pain, should there be any, will be compensated for by the fact of independence.
Is the rational way to view it as a Leaver.
Yes, if you are a nationalist I think that trumps money. In my own life I would rather be self employed and free than in someone else's pay with them telling when I can go on holiday etc
Mr. Bob, because having the UK taxpayer as lender of last resort for a part of the world that would have voted to leave the UK is unjust.
I'm perplexed as to why Scots who want [many, though not all] to leave also want to immediately hand their monetary policy to what would then be a foreign country.
Should we win the euro clearing battle, then the BoE will in effect be lender of last resort to all EU-based institutions clearing through London.
Surely the scots just have a Scottish pound, with a mysterious currency peg of 1.00000; until they apply to join the Euro. If accepted then they must adopt the euro.
Comments
Absolutely laughable.
FOX 4 NEWS @FOX4
Central Michigan College Republicans sorry for Hitler-themed Valentine's card (link: http://bit.ly/2lwfSdC) bit.ly/2lwfSdC
* It's very slow but quite fun. Sunil should definitely do it.
Ronnie O'Sullivan conducted his post-match interview as a robot yesterday in protest at being fined for speaking his mind at the Masters. https://t.co/eqJg5mTjf9
But Jaqueline Minor does not say 'front of the queue' does she?
You're making stuff up - entertainingly desperate.....
The strip of water enables a blurring of hard/soft/de facto/de jure borders between ROI NI and GB if we want to be creative.
But I don't understand why we'd want to get rid of the Common Travel Area. It's been an enormous positive for all the members of the British Isles.
See: https://www.flyguernsey.com/passport-requirements-for-guernsey/
All adds to the pressure on women who do suffer in this fashion, but equally the last thing anyone wants is an incorrect conviction.
I should know - I've done it often enough!
The people of Scotland have recently said they want to stay in the UK. The people of the UK have recently said they want to leave the EU. That's the reality.
Currency remains a major problem for independence advocates. Why they don't just say they'll have a Scottish pound is beyond me.
Any UK (ex-Scotland, post-independence) party proposing putting the UK taxpayer on the hook in case of a financial institution's collapse in Scotland would get slaughtered at the ballot box.
About half of the 52% care a lot about it though, and there will be a general election within a year of the final deal being done, if she ditches freedom of movement and is very lucky they will stay at home and she will lose her majority.
So, using the pound could happen, but without a lender of last resort.
And yet the very people, let's call them PB Leavers, who say that for Brexit it is a price worth paying, in the long run all will be well, there are more important things to worry about than the economics....are the very same people who decry the Scots for wanting to take an equally economically-disadvantaging decision themselves.
I just hope my backing hasn't made TUD a loyalist
She might have lost some votes here.
Why would we not agree to a currency union? Sour grapes?
(and it's "your")
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jewish_diaspora#French_Jews
More EU, Harder EU. More centralisation, less national autonomy. At no point did anyone think the EU might have to row back on its ambitions.
The people of the UK made a very good call last year.
I'm perplexed as to why Scots who want [many, though not all] to leave also want to immediately hand their monetary policy to what would then be a foreign country.
Might be politically difficult, mind.
The hope would be saner heads prevail over time, but it'll take grown up concessions in the event, and each side has reason to get their backs up when that is suggested, so any exits are more likely than not going to be messy.
But that's fine, right?
If accepted then they must adopt the euro.