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  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 124,696

    HYUFD said:

    AndyJS said:
    Bloody hell it must be bad if we're having to rely on Ramussen numbers!
    Rasmussen had Hillary ahead by 2% nationally in its final poll in November, it got the popular vote spot on. I also doubt the numbers would be much different here outside of inner London and the big university cities
    One poll doesn't make Ramussen a reliable pollster overall. Several other polls also showed Clinton winning the popular vote as well. Ramussen is telling us Trump has a 59% approval rating while every other pollster is telling us otherwise.

    EDIT: The Sky poll is showing that 49% oppose Trump's policy.
    Maybe but Rasmussen got the popular vote margin spot on. The Sky poll asked a slightly different question to Rasmussen about a ban on Muslim migration, while Rasmussen asked about a temporary ban until U.S. security improved its security vetting but even Sky had over a third if Britons backing a ban which is comfortably more than Corbyn Labour is now polling
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 43,111

    TOPPING said:

    TOPPING said:

    Jobabob said:

    Dromedary said:

    Not much to go on regarding the motive in Quebec. There has been some professional-grade disinfo in this story - not that that's unusual with such an event. Bissonnette doesn't sound like he took the pledge to al-Baghdadi. Calling 911?

    A perfect example of why the frothers should leave well alone. Some of the posts on here from earlier are real keepers.
    But the PB Frothers never, ever learn.
    Fucking arseholes. Insecure, naive arseholes with their funny "I bet he's called Geoff" comments,
    Trudeau called it as terrorism. He's stuck with that now!

    Oh.
    It is terrorism.
    Yep, I know that.
    The original implication was that Trudeau almost immediately identifying it as terrorism would mean that once it turned out to be Muslims wot done it there couldn't be any 'mental illness' backtracking.
    Hmm yes I see that.

    I have also pointed out there is a large union set of mental illness and radicalisation.

    But I see your point: we shall see what facts transpire.
  • Channel 4: Do you think the Queen is happy about this (Trump state visit) situation?

    Rees Mogg: Of course the Queen is happy, it is her constitutional duty to be happy. May she live for ever.

    Who's going to break it to the Moggster?
  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 25,712

    Sky poll also finds that 49% are opposed to Trump-style ban of Moslems entering the UK; 34% in favour.

    Interesting.

    Also find it rather odd that PB is attempting to characterise the opposition to Trump's ban as 'extreme'. The debate in the HoC tonight was put forward by not only by Ed Miliband, but also by Nadhim Zahawi. The tone of many MPs on the centre-left was also reflected by several Conservative MPs on twitter, particularly in support of Nadhim Zahawi. Sarah Wollaston is only one example.

    Some people only this site are really playing themselves if they truly believe that strong, strong opposition to this ban is limited to loony lefties.

    Also re this ban going down well in the US - really? There are huge protests across several American cities. Trump's approval rating continues to decline; gallup reported today he broke the records in having a 51% disapproval rating within only eight days into his Presidency. It seems that rather than it only being the left that oppose Donald Trump, many Americans across the political spectrum seem to have a poor opinion of him, and his conduct as President of the United States.
    Trump's playing them all for suckers.

    He hits them with some new indignation every day

    Can anyone remember what last weeks gasps of incredulity were ?

    The protests cant keep up with the pace. SCOTUS next this week, stand by for self righteous wailing

    The only who is getting played is Trump. For someone who sees himself as a man of the people, it looks like many of the American people are turning against him. And, looking at his twitter it's clearly getting under his skin.

    I also think that this mobilisation of the left is actually good thing. The Left for a long time has lacked direction and purpose. Perhaps Trump will spur them on to rectify that. I probably won't like the SCOTUS appointment. Is voicing opposition to something mean that someone is self righteously wailing? Really?
    Trump believes there is no bad publicity, the more the left focus on TRUMP the more they build the brand. He is not looking to appeal to a huge part of the US electorate, but only those who voted for him.

    as for self righteous wailing, the left are quite happy to forget about anything Trumplike if it's their man who has done it. So it's not principle its merely tribalism.

    Self righteous tribalism.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 43,111

    TOPPING said:

    TOPPING said:

    TOPPING said:

    Jobabob said:

    Dromedary said:

    Not much to go on regarding the motive in Quebec. There has been some professional-grade disinfo in this story - not that that's unusual with such an event. Bissonnette doesn't sound like he took the pledge to al-Baghdadi. Calling 911?

    A perfect example of why the frothers should leave well alone. Some of the posts on here from earlier are real keepers.
    But the PB Frothers never, ever learn.
    Fucking arseholes. Insecure, naive arseholes with their funny "I bet he's called Geoff" comments,
    ? Bit strong?
    The propagation of the idea that one particular demographic is responsible for one particular crime is pernicious.

    There is a balance between understanding the threat of radical Islam and the vilifying of a whole people.
    I agree.

    You just seemed disproportionately angry and out of character.
    Just had it up to here with a full day of it. I didn't respond at the time because I refused to do things (pre-judge) I dislike in others.
    We all pre judge. It's how we're made.
    Well then it's allowed to judge the prejudice. Or even just identify it when it occurs.
  • HaroldOHaroldO Posts: 1,185
    Some of my friends are at the local protest in the city centre, which has now turned into an anti-NHS privatisation march and half the crowd have left as a result it seems.
  • HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    AndyJS said:
    Bloody hell it must be bad if we're having to rely on Ramussen numbers!
    Rasmussen had Hillary ahead by 2% nationally in its final poll in November, it got the popular vote spot on. I also doubt the numbers would be much different here outside of inner London and the big university cities
    One poll doesn't make Ramussen a reliable pollster overall. Several other polls also showed Clinton winning the popular vote as well. Ramussen is telling us Trump has a 59% approval rating while every other pollster is telling us otherwise.

    EDIT: The Sky poll is showing that 49% oppose Trump's policy.
    Maybe but Rasmussen got the popular vote margin spot on. The Sky poll asked a slightly different question to Rasmussen about a ban on Muslim migration, while Rasmussen asked about a temporary ban until U.S. security improved its security vetting but even Sky had over a third if Britons backing a ban which is comfortably more than Corbyn Labour is now polling
    And as I said before one poll doesn't suddenly mean that Rasmussen is a reliable pollster. I don't deny that Sky had over a third backing the ban. However that still isn't the majority of people.
  • surbitonsurbiton Posts: 13,549

    AndyJS said:
    Bloody hell it must be bad if we're having to rely on Ramussen numbers!
    I think you will find that the US poll question was a leading one. Something along the lines of "would you support the ban if it reduced terrorism" ?

    Who would say No. I'm surprised the answer was not 100%.
  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 22,448

    Expect The report doesnt say that. In fact it specifically says they didn't know the details. only that trump was intending to put in place some sort of ban on refugees.
    Which is what everyone has known since... April 16? ;)
  • HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    AndyJS said:
    Bloody hell it must be bad if we're having to rely on Ramussen numbers!
    Rasmussen had Hillary ahead by 2% nationally in its final poll in November, it got the popular vote spot on. I also doubt the numbers would be much different here outside of inner London and the big university cities
    One poll doesn't make Ramussen a reliable pollster overall. Several other polls also showed Clinton winning the popular vote as well. Ramussen is telling us Trump has a 59% approval rating while every other pollster is telling us otherwise.

    EDIT: The Sky poll is showing that 49% oppose Trump's policy.
    Maybe but Rasmussen got the popular vote margin spot on. The Sky poll asked a slightly different question to Rasmussen about a ban on Muslim migration, while Rasmussen asked about a temporary ban until U.S. security improved its security vetting but even Sky had over a third if Britons backing a ban which is comfortably more than Corbyn Labour is now polling
    And as I said before one poll doesn't suddenly mean that Rasmussen is a reliable pollster. I don't deny that Sky had over a third backing the ban. However that still isn't the majority of people.
    I do wonder how many know it is a temporary ban
  • maaarshmaaarsh Posts: 3,592
    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    AndyJS said:
    Bloody hell it must be bad if we're having to rely on Ramussen numbers!
    Rasmussen had Hillary ahead by 2% nationally in its final poll in November, it got the popular vote spot on. I also doubt the numbers would be much different here outside of inner London and the big university cities
    One poll doesn't make Ramussen a reliable pollster overall. Several other polls also showed Clinton winning the popular vote as well. Ramussen is telling us Trump has a 59% approval rating while every other pollster is telling us otherwise.

    EDIT: The Sky poll is showing that 49% oppose Trump's policy.
    Maybe but Rasmussen got the popular vote margin spot on. The Sky poll asked a slightly different question to Rasmussen about a ban on Muslim migration, while Rasmussen asked about a temporary ban until U.S. security improved its security vetting but even Sky had over a third if Britons backing a ban which is comfortably more than Corbyn Labour is now polling
    Yes, the Sky question, in the context of the coverage this has received, is basically are you a racist or not, so surprising the opposed figure couldn't even hit 50%
  • midwintermidwinter Posts: 1,112

    Sky poll also finds that 49% are opposed to Trump-style ban of Moslems entering the UK; 34% in favour.

    Interesting.

    Also find it rather odd that PB is attempting to characterise the opposition to Trump's ban as 'extreme'. The debate in the HoC tonight was put forward by not only by Ed Miliband, but also by Nadhim Zahawi. The tone of many MPs on the centre-left was also reflected by several Conservative MPs on twitter, particularly in support of Nadhim Zahawi. Sarah Wollaston is only one example.

    Some people only this site are really playing themselves if they truly believe that strong, strong opposition to this ban is limited to loony lefties.

    Also re this ban going down well in the US - really? There are huge protests across several American cities. Trump's approval rating continues to decline; gallup reported today he broke the records in having a 51% disapproval rating within only eight days into his Presidency. It seems that rather than it only being the left that oppose Donald Trump, many Americans across the political spectrum seem to have a poor opinion of him, and his conduct as President of the United States.
    Trump's playing them all for suckers.

    He hits them with some new indignation every day

    Can anyone remember what last weeks gasps of incredulity were ?

    The protests cant keep up with the pace. SCOTUS next this week, stand by for self righteous wailing

    The only who is getting played is Trump. For someone who sees himself as a man of the people, it looks like many of the American people are turning against him. And, looking at his twitter it's clearly getting under his skin.

    I also think that this mobilisation of the left is actually good thing. The Left for a long time has lacked direction and purpose. Perhaps Trump will spur them on to rectify that. I probably won't like the SCOTUS appointment. Is voicing opposition to something mean that someone is self righteously wailing? Really?
    Judging by the referendum vote in this country restricting immigration certainly won't upset the working classes. Might upset the Guardian types but it isn't going to grab the imagination of the whole left wing.
  • JobabobJobabob Posts: 3,807

    Sky poll also finds that 49% are opposed to Trump-style ban of Moslems entering the UK; 34% in favour.

    Interesting.

    Also find it rather odd that PB is attempting to characterise the opposition to Trump's ban as 'extreme'. The debate in the HoC tonight was put forward by not only by Ed Miliband, but also by Nadhim Zahawi. The tone of many MPs on the centre-left was also reflected by several Conservative MPs on twitter, particularly in support of Nadhim Zahawi. Sarah Wollaston is only one example.

    Some people only this site are really playing themselves if they truly believe that strong, strong opposition to this ban is limited to loony lefties.

    Also re this ban going down well in the US - really? There are huge protests across several American cities. Trump's approval rating continues to decline; gallup reported today he broke the records in having a 51% disapproval rating within only eight days into his Presidency. It seems that rather than it only being the left that oppose Donald Trump, many Americans across the political spectrum seem to have a poor opinion of him, and his conduct as President of the United States.
    Trump's playing them all for suckers.

    He hits them with some new indignation every day

    Can anyone remember what last weeks gasps of incredulity were ?

    The protests cant keep up with the pace. SCOTUS next this week, stand by for self righteous wailing

    The only who is getting played is Trump. For someone who sees himself as a man of the people, it looks like many of the American people are turning against him. And, looking at his twitter it's clearly getting under his skin.

    I also think that this mobilisation of the left is actually good thing. The Left for a long time has lacked direction and purpose. Perhaps Trump will spur them on to rectify that. I probably won't like the SCOTUS appointment. Is voicing opposition to something mean that someone is self righteously wailing? Really?
    All dissent must be silenced!
  • So, the Breitbart gang spent all day hoping against hope the Quebec atrocity was moslem on moslem, but it instead it looks to be yet another North American atrocity committed by a white nationalist. Funnily enough, Breitbart's editor in chief, and another white nationalist, now sits on the US National Security Council. And we walk hand-in-hand with the man who made that appointment.
  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 25,712
    Jobabob said:

    Sky poll also finds that 49% are opposed to Trump-style ban of Moslems entering the UK; 34% in favour.

    Interesting.

    Also find it rather odd that PB is attempting to characterise the opposition to Trump's ban as 'extreme'. The debate in the HoC tonight was put forward by not only by Ed Miliband, but also by Nadhim Zahawi. The tone of many MPs on the centre-left was also reflected by several Conservative MPs on twitter, particularly in support of Nadhim Zahawi. Sarah Wollaston is only one example.

    Some people only this site are really playing themselves if they truly believe that strong, strong opposition to this ban is limited to loony lefties.

    Also re this ban going down well in the US - really? There are huge protests across several American cities. Trump's approval rating continues to decline; gallup reported today he broke the records in having a 51% disapproval rating within only eight days into his Presidency. It seems that rather than it only being the left that oppose Donald Trump, many Americans across the political spectrum seem to have a poor opinion of him, and his conduct as President of the United States.
    Trump's playing them all for suckers.

    He hits them with some new indignation every day

    Can anyone remember what last weeks gasps of incredulity were ?

    The protests cant keep up with the pace. SCOTUS next this week, stand by for self righteous wailing

    The only who is getting played is Trump. For someone who sees himself as a man of the people, it looks like many of the American people are turning against him. And, looking at his twitter it's clearly getting under his skin.

    I also think that this mobilisation of the left is actually good thing. The Left for a long time has lacked direction and purpose. Perhaps Trump will spur them on to rectify that. I probably won't like the SCOTUS appointment. Is voicing opposition to something mean that someone is self righteously wailing? Really?
    All dissent must be silenced!
    funny how youre all for diversity until it's someone whos opinions you dont share
  • surbitonsurbiton Posts: 13,549
    HaroldO said:

    If it's true she is a chump for not getting on this as an issue ASAP.
    Remember her first stupid response it was a US policy and it is their business. She is out of her depth.
  • DromedaryDromedary Posts: 1,194
    chestnut said:

    TGOHF said:

    Matt Gootwin gets special treatment from Cummings... ooooft.

    " Betting markets on the referendum and Trump showed no useful information. "

    " they, and others in a similar position, had a strong incentive to game betting markets to increase their chances of large gains from inside knowledge"
    And doing it with the French presidential market is cheaper.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 42,380
    edited January 2017
    TOPPING said:

    TOPPING said:

    TOPPING said:

    Jobabob said:

    Dromedary said:

    Not much to go on regarding the motive in Quebec. There has been some professional-grade disinfo in this story - not that that's unusual with such an event. Bissonnette doesn't sound like he took the pledge to al-Baghdadi. Calling 911?

    A perfect example of why the frothers should leave well alone. Some of the posts on here from earlier are real keepers.
    But the PB Frothers never, ever learn.
    Fucking arseholes. Insecure, naive arseholes with their funny "I bet he's called Geoff" comments,
    Trudeau called it as terrorism. He's stuck with that now!

    Oh.
    It is terrorism.
    Yep, I know that.
    The original implication was that Trudeau almost immediately identifying it as terrorism would mean that once it turned out to be Muslims wot done it there couldn't be any 'mental illness' backtracking.
    Hmm yes I see that.

    I have also pointed out there is a large union set of mental illness and radicalisation.

    But I see your point: we shall see what facts transpire.
    I'm sure there is a correlation. Since young men of all backgrounds tend to be one of the sections of the population most susceptible to mental illness, suicide, depression and the commission of violent acts, it'd be surprising if there wasn't.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 54,227
    Outrage bus parked up in Aberdeen tonight with maybe 200 people attending a rally to protest about Trump. And it is not even warm. Or dry. Remarkable.
  • No big teams drawn against each other but Sutton hit jackpot

    Sutton v Arsenal
    Blackburn v Man Utd


  • Trump believes there is no bad publicity, the more the left focus on TRUMP the more they build the brand. He is not looking to appeal to a huge part of the US electorate, but only those who voted for him.

    as for self righteous wailing, the left are quite happy to forget about anything Trumplike if it's their man who has done it. So it's not principle its merely tribalism.

    Self righteous tribalism.

    Trump may believe there's no such thing as bad publicity, but he may be about to find out that's not the case. I also disagree that the left helping Trump build a brand.

    Trump may not be looking to unify the US and appeal to large groups. But he also should be careful that some of his controversial measures don't end up also impacting/affecting his base. I posted on the weekend a tweet of Trump voter whose husband is affected by this policy. Many Trump voters have already voiced their concerns over what is happening with planned parenthood. Then there is the matter of whetherTrump brings the manufacturing jobs back.

    As for your last part, that's not really true. There are many fractions within the Left. As Southam noted today, many on the Left opposed Obama's drone strikes - while others supported it. The Left as a whole is a pretty fractured group.
  • JobabobJobabob Posts: 3,807

    Jobabob said:

    Sky poll also finds that 49% are opposed to Trump-style ban of Moslems entering the UK; 34% in favour.

    Interesting.

    Also find it rather odd that PB is attempting to characterise the opposition to Trump's ban as 'extreme'. The debate in the HoC tonight was put forward by not only by Ed Miliband, but also by Nadhim Zahawi. The tone of many MPs on the centre-left was also reflected by several Conservative MPs on twitter, particularly in support of Nadhim Zahawi. Sarah Wollaston is only one example.

    Some people only this site are really playing themselves if they truly believe that strong, strong opposition to this ban is limited to loony lefties.

    Also re this ban going down well in the US - really? There are huge protests across several American cities. Trump's approval rating continues to decline; gallup reported today he broke the records in having a 51% disapproval rating within only eight days into his Presidency. It seems that rather than it only being the left that oppose Donald Trump, many Americans across the political spectrum seem to have a poor opinion of him, and his conduct as President of the United States.
    Trump's playing them all for suckers.

    He hits them with some new indignation every day

    Can anyone remember what last weeks gasps of incredulity were ?

    The protests cant keep up with the pace. SCOTUS next this week, stand by for self righteous wailing

    The only who is getting played is Trump. For someone who sees himself as a man of the people, it looks like many of the American people are turning against him. And, looking at his twitter it's clearly getting under his skin.

    I also think that this mobilisation of the left is actually good thing. The Left for a long time has lacked direction and purpose. Perhaps Trump will spur them on to rectify that. I probably won't like the SCOTUS appointment. Is voicing opposition to something mean that someone is self righteously wailing? Really?
    All dissent must be silenced!
    funny how youre all for diversity until it's someone whos opinions you dont share
    It is you who is describing the conscientious objections of others as wailing, Alan, not me.
  • DromedaryDromedary Posts: 1,194

    No big teams drawn against each other but Sutton hit jackpot

    Sutton v Arsenal
    Blackburn v Man Utd

    Sutton would have preferred to play Arsenal away :)
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 124,696

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    AndyJS said:
    Bloody hell it must be bad if we're having to rely on Ramussen numbers!
    Rasmussen had Hillary ahead by 2% nationally in its final poll in November, it got the popular vote spot on. I also doubt the numbers would be much different here outside of inner London and the big university cities
    One poll doesn't make Ramussen a reliable pollster overall. Several other polls also showed Clinton winning the popular vote as well. Ramussen is telling us Trump has a 59% approval rating while every other pollster is telling us otherwise.

    EDIT: The Sky poll is showing that 49% oppose Trump's policy.
    Maybe but Rasmussen got the popular vote margin spot on. The Sky poll asked a slightly different question to Rasmussen about a ban on Muslim migration, while Rasmussen asked about a temporary ban until U.S. security improved its security vetting but even Sky had over a third if Britons backing a ban which is comfortably more than Corbyn Labour is now polling
    And as I said before one poll doesn't suddenly mean that Rasmussen is a reliable pollster. I don't deny that Sky had over a third backing the ban. However that still isn't the majority of people.
    A majority of people did not oppose the ban either but we need more polls to confirm, yes
  • midwintermidwinter Posts: 1,112
    surbiton said:

    HaroldO said:

    If it's true she is a chump for not getting on this as an issue ASAP.
    Remember her first stupid response it was a US policy and it is their business. She is out of her depth.
    Using the referendum result and focus of the Leave campaign as a template she has every reason to believe it would get 52 percent support over here.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 43,970
    "Toddler Harry Studley shot in head to 'shut him up'"

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-bristol-38799276

    There's not much I can say about this without swearing ...
  • The_ApocalypseThe_Apocalypse Posts: 7,830
    edited January 2017
    midwinter said:

    Sky poll also finds that 49% are opposed to Trump-style ban of Moslems entering the UK; 34% in favour.

    Interesting.

    Also find it rather odd that PB is attempting to characterise the opposition to Trump's ban as 'extreme'. The debate in the HoC tonight was put forward by not only by Ed Miliband, but also by Nadhim Zahawi. The tone of many MPs on the centre-left was also reflected by several Conservative MPs on twitter, particularly in support of Nadhim Zahawi. Sarah Wollaston is only one example.

    Some people only this site are really playing themselves if they truly believe that strong, strong opposition to this ban is limited to loony lefties.

    Also re this ban going down well in the US - really? There are huge protests across several American cities. Trump's approval rating continues to decline; gallup reported today he broke the records in having a 51% disapproval rating within only eight days into his Presidency. It seems that rather than it only being the left that oppose Donald Trump, many Americans across the political spectrum seem to have a poor opinion of him, and his conduct as President of the United States.
    Trump's playing them all for suckers.

    He hits them with some new indignation every day

    Can anyone remember what last weeks gasps of incredulity were ?

    The protests cant keep up with the pace. SCOTUS next this week, stand by for self righteous wailing

    The only who is getting played is Trump. For someone who sees himself as a man of the people, it looks like many of the American people are turning against him. And, looking at his twitter it's clearly getting under his skin.

    I also think that this mobilisation of the left is actually good thing. The Left for a long time has lacked direction and purpose. Perhaps Trump will spur them on to rectify that. I probably won't like the SCOTUS appointment. Is voicing opposition to something mean that someone is self righteously wailing? Really?
    Judging by the referendum vote in this country restricting immigration certainly won't upset the working classes. Might upset the Guardian types but it isn't going to grab the imagination of the whole left wing.
    There's controlling immigration (which is what we are told people want), and then there's outright ban on people based on the country of their birth, which affects dual national citizens and even green card holders.
  • JobabobJobabob Posts: 3,807
    DavidL said:

    Outrage bus parked up in Aberdeen tonight with maybe 200 people attending a rally to protest about Trump. And it is not even warm. Or dry. Remarkable.

    In PB world anyone who has a conscientious objection to anything is on the 'Outrage Bus'. Frankly David I'd expect better from you.
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 26,296

    No big teams drawn against each other but Sutton hit jackpot

    Sutton v Arsenal
    Blackburn v Man Utd

    Yes, a weekend off for me. Goodness only knows what the away allocation is at Sutton.
  • JobabobJobabob Posts: 3,807

    No big teams drawn against each other but Sutton hit jackpot

    Sutton v Arsenal
    Blackburn v Man Utd

    That's an amazing tie. Shades of Wrexham circa 1992?
  • Jobabob said:

    No big teams drawn against each other but Sutton hit jackpot

    Sutton v Arsenal
    Blackburn v Man Utd

    That's an amazing tie. Shades of Wrexham circa 1992?
    Mickey Thomas
  • RogerRoger Posts: 20,062
    DavidL said:

    Outrage bus parked up in Aberdeen tonight with maybe 200 people attending a rally to protest about Trump. And it is not even warm. Or dry. Remarkable.

    The fact that there are still people who give a damn isn't remarkable but it is heart warming. The mood seems to me to be shifting fast and opposition to Trump seems to be coalescing opposition in a way we haven't seen for years.
  • HaroldOHaroldO Posts: 1,185
    maaarsh said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    AndyJS said:
    Bloody hell it must be bad if we're having to rely on Ramussen numbers!
    Rasmussen had Hillary ahead by 2% nationally in its final poll in November, it got the popular vote spot on. I also doubt the numbers would be much different here outside of inner London and the big university cities
    One poll doesn't make Ramussen a reliable pollster overall. Several other polls also showed Clinton winning the popular vote as well. Ramussen is telling us Trump has a 59% approval rating while every other pollster is telling us otherwise.

    EDIT: The Sky poll is showing that 49% oppose Trump's policy.
    Maybe but Rasmussen got the popular vote margin spot on. The Sky poll asked a slightly different question to Rasmussen about a ban on Muslim migration, while Rasmussen asked about a temporary ban until U.S. security improved its security vetting but even Sky had over a third if Britons backing a ban which is comfortably more than Corbyn Labour is now polling
    Yes, the Sky question, in the context of the coverage this has received, is basically are you a racist or not, so surprising the opposed figure couldn't even hit 50%
    The problem is the left use dog whistle phrases as much as the right do, if not more so. Everything is a crisis, or the end of the NHS etc etc, so when a genuine issue comes along its hard to get behind for people because every day for the last umpteen days another massively important issue has cropped up you really have to care about because of the evil Tories.
  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 25,712



    Trump believes there is no bad publicity, the more the left focus on TRUMP the more they build the brand. He is not looking to appeal to a huge part of the US electorate, but only those who voted for him.

    as for self righteous wailing, the left are quite happy to forget about anything Trumplike if it's their man who has done it. So it's not principle its merely tribalism.

    Self righteous tribalism.

    Trump may believe there's no such thing as bad publicity, but he may be about to find out that's not the case. I also disagree that the left helping Trump build a brand.

    Trump may not be looking to unify the US and appeal to large groups. But he also should be careful that some of his controversial measures don't end up also impacting/affecting his base. I posted on the weekend a tweet of Trump voter whose husband is affected by this policy. Many Trump voters have already voiced their concerns over what is happening with planned parenthood. Then there is the matter of whetherTrump brings the manufacturing jobs back.

    As for your last part, that's not really true. There are many fractions within the Left. As Southam noted today, many on the Left opposed Obama's drone strikes - while others supported it. The Left as a whole is a pretty fractured group.
    Some of his measures will undoubtedly hit his own supporters, but thats true of all presidents. Trump is simply moving the national expectation by making big demands which he will then ratchet back but the compromise will give him more than he would have got from conventional means.

  • DromedaryDromedary Posts: 1,194
    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    AndyJS said:
    Bloody hell it must be bad if we're having to rely on Ramussen numbers!
    Rasmussen had Hillary ahead by 2% nationally in its final poll in November, it got the popular vote spot on. I also doubt the numbers would be much different here outside of inner London and the big university cities
    One poll doesn't make Ramussen a reliable pollster overall. Several other polls also showed Clinton winning the popular vote as well. Ramussen is telling us Trump has a 59% approval rating while every other pollster is telling us otherwise.

    EDIT: The Sky poll is showing that 49% oppose Trump's policy.
    Maybe but Rasmussen got the popular vote margin spot on. The Sky poll asked a slightly different question to Rasmussen about a ban on Muslim migration, while Rasmussen asked about a temporary ban until U.S. security improved its security vetting but even Sky had over a third if Britons backing a ban which is comfortably more than Corbyn Labour is now polling
    And as I said before one poll doesn't suddenly mean that Rasmussen is a reliable pollster. I don't deny that Sky had over a third backing the ban. However that still isn't the majority of people.
    A majority of people did not oppose the ban either but we need more polls to confirm, yes
    34% is a huge figure for backing a ban. Have there been any (non-private) polls on this in the Netherlands, France or Germany?
  • isamisam Posts: 41,118
    TOPPING said:

    isam said:

    TOPPING said:

    TOPPING said:

    Jobabob said:

    Dromedary said:

    Not much to go on regarding the motive in Quebec. There has been some professional-grade disinfo in this story - not that that's unusual with such an event. Bissonnette doesn't sound like he took the pledge to al-Baghdadi. Calling 911?

    A perfect example of why the frothers should leave well alone. Some of the posts on here from earlier are real keepers.
    But the PB Frothers never, ever learn.
    Fucking arseholes. Insecure, naive arseholes with their funny "I bet he's called Geoff" comments,
    ? Bit strong?
    The propagation of the idea that one particular demographic is responsible for one particular crime is pernicious.

    There is a balance between understanding the threat of radical Islam and the vilifying of a whole people.
    When the target is a mosque it makes it more unlikely I'd say
    Makes what more unlikely?
    The people who did it to be muslims
  • Dromedary said:

    No big teams drawn against each other but Sutton hit jackpot

    Sutton v Arsenal
    Blackburn v Man Utd

    Sutton would have preferred to play Arsenal away :)
    Strategy - get a draw
  • Jobabob said:

    DavidL said:

    Outrage bus parked up in Aberdeen tonight with maybe 200 people attending a rally to protest about Trump. And it is not even warm. Or dry. Remarkable.

    In PB world anyone who has a conscientious objection to anything is on the 'Outrage Bus'. Frankly David I'd expect better from you.
    Correction. Anyone on the left who has an objection to anything is on the 'Outrage Bus'. Just like increasingly every opinion expressed by someone on the left is dismissed as virtual signalling on this site. More and more some are starting to sound like Corbynistas on twitter who cannot deal with alternative world views.
  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 25,712
    Jobabob said:

    Jobabob said:

    Sky poll also finds that 49% are opposed to Trump-style ban of Moslems entering the UK; 34% in favour.

    Interesting.

    Also find it rather odd that PB is attempting to characterise the opposition to Trump's ban as 'extreme'. The debate in the HoC tonight was put forward by not only by Ed Miliband, but also by Nadhim Zahawi. The tone of many MPs on the centre-left was also reflected by several Conservative MPs on twitter, particularly in support of Nadhim Zahawi. Sarah Wollaston is only one example.

    Some people only this site are really playing themselves if they truly believe that strong, strong opposition to this ban is limited to loony lefties.

    Also re this ban going down well in the US - really? There are huge protests across several American cities. Trump's approval rating continues to decline; gallup reported today he broke the records in having a 51% disapproval rating within only eight days into his Presidency. It seems that rather than it only being the left that oppose Donald Trump, many Americans across the political spectrum seem to have a poor opinion of him, and his conduct as President of the United States.
    Trump's playing them all for suckers.

    He hits them with some new indignation every day

    Can anyone remember what last weeks gasps of incredulity were ?

    The protests cant keep up with the pace. SCOTUS next this week, stand by for self righteous wailing

    The only who is getting played is Trump. For someone who sees himself as a man of the people, it looks like many of the American people are turning against him. And, looking at his twitter it's clearly getting under his skin.

    I also think that this mobilisation of the left is actually good thing. The Left for a long time has lacked direction and purpose. Perhaps Trump will spur them on to rectify that. I probably won't like the SCOTUS appointment. Is voicing opposition to something mean that someone is self righteously wailing? Really?
    All dissent must be silenced!
    funny how youre all for diversity until it's someone whos opinions you dont share
    It is you who is describing the conscientious objections of others as wailing, Alan, not me.
    I call it as I see it.

    This is a bunch of people who have had largely their own way for 2 decades complaining that someone else now holds the reins.
  • JobabobJobabob Posts: 3,807

    Jobabob said:

    No big teams drawn against each other but Sutton hit jackpot

    Sutton v Arsenal
    Blackburn v Man Utd

    That's an amazing tie. Shades of Wrexham circa 1992?
    Mickey Thomas
    Still remember that game now – brilliant stuff.
  • isamisam Posts: 41,118

    So, the Breitbart gang spent all day hoping against hope the Quebec atrocity was moslem on moslem, but it instead it looks to be yet another North American atrocity committed by a white nationalist. Funnily enough, Breitbart's editor in chief, and another white nationalist, now sits on the US National Security Council. And we walk hand-in-hand with the man who made that appointment.

    Hand-in-Hand!!!
  • midwintermidwinter Posts: 1,112

    midwinter said:

    Sky poll also finds that 49% are opposed to Trump-style ban of Moslems entering the UK; 34% in favour.

    Interesting.

    Also find it rather odd that PB is attempting to characterise the opposition to Trump's ban as 'extreme'. The debate in the HoC tonight was put forward by not only by Ed Miliband, but also by Nadhim Zahawi. The tone of many MPs on the centre-left was also reflected by several Conservative MPs on twitter, particularly in support of Nadhim Zahawi. Sarah Wollaston is only one example.

    Some people only this site are really playing themselves if they truly believe that strong, strong opposition to this ban is limited to loony lefties.

    Also re this ban going down well in the US - really? There are huge protests across several American cities. Trump's approval rating continues to decline; gallup reported today he broke the records in having a 51% disapproval rating within only eight days into his Presidency. It seems that rather than it only being the left that oppose Donald Trump, many Americans across the political spectrum seem to have a poor opinion of him, and his conduct as President of the United States.
    Trump's playing them all for suckers.

    He hits them with some new indignation every day

    Can anyone remember what last weeks gasps of incredulity were ?

    The protests cant keep up with the pace. SCOTUS next this week, stand by for self righteous wailing

    The only who is getting played is Trump. For someone who sees himself as a man of the people, it looks like many of the American people are turning against him. And, looking at his twitter it's clearly getting under his skin.

    I also think that this mobilisation of the left is actually good thing. The Left for a long time has lacked direction and purpose. Perhaps Trump will spur them on to rectify that. I probably won't like the SCOTUS appointment. Is voicing opposition to something mean that someone is self righteously wailing? Really?
    Judging by the referendum vote in this country restricting immigration certainly won't upset the working classes. Might upset the Guardian types but it isn't going to grab the imagination of the whole left wing.
    There's controlling immigration (which is what we are told people want), and then there's outright ban on people based on the country of their birth, which affects dual national citizens and even green card holders.
    I'm not endorsing what Trump is doing( its grotesque). Just pointing out that the working class in the USA and Uk have very little in common with the left wing middle classes particularly wrt to social issues eg immigration.
  • NEW THREAD

  • isamisam Posts: 41,118
    Dromedary said:

    No big teams drawn against each other but Sutton hit jackpot

    Sutton v Arsenal
    Blackburn v Man Utd

    Sutton would have preferred to play Arsenal away :)
    Will they switch? Does that still happen?
  • Dromedary said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    AndyJS said:
    Bloody hell it must be bad if we're having to rely on Ramussen numbers!
    Rasmussen had Hillary ahead by 2% nationally in its final poll in November, it got the popular vote spot on. I also doubt the numbers would be much different here outside of inner London and the big university cities
    One poll doesn't make Ramussen a reliable pollster overall. Several other polls also showed Clinton winning the popular vote as well. Ramussen is telling us Trump has a 59% approval rating while every other pollster is telling us otherwise.

    EDIT: The Sky poll is showing that 49% oppose Trump's policy.
    Maybe but Rasmussen got the popular vote margin spot on. The Sky poll asked a slightly different question to Rasmussen about a ban on Muslim migration, while Rasmussen asked about a temporary ban until U.S. security improved its security vetting but even Sky had over a third if Britons backing a ban which is comfortably more than Corbyn Labour is now polling
    And as I said before one poll doesn't suddenly mean that Rasmussen is a reliable pollster. I don't deny that Sky had over a third backing the ban. However that still isn't the majority of people.
    A majority of people did not oppose the ban either but we need more polls to confirm, yes
    34% is a huge figure for backing a ban. Have there been any (non-private) polls on this in the Netherlands, France or Germany?
    Much higher than I would have expected


  • Trump believes there is no bad publicity, the more the left focus on TRUMP the more they build the brand. He is not looking to appeal to a huge part of the US electorate, but only those who voted for him.

    as for self righteous wailing, the left are quite happy to forget about anything Trumplike if it's their man who has done it. So it's not principle its merely tribalism.

    Self righteous tribalism.

    Trump may believe there's no such thing as bad publicity, but he may be about to find out that's not the case. I also disagree that the left helping Trump build a brand.

    Trump may not be looking to unify the US and appeal to large groups. But he also should be careful that some of his controversial measures don't end up also impacting/affecting his base. I posted on the weekend a tweet of Trump voter whose husband is affected by this policy. Many Trump voters have already voiced their concerns over what is happening with planned parenthood. Then there is the matter of whetherTrump brings the manufacturing jobs back.

    As for your last part, that's not really true. There are many fractions within the Left. As Southam noted today, many on the Left opposed Obama's drone strikes - while others supported it. The Left as a whole is a pretty fractured group.
    Some of his measures will undoubtedly hit his own supporters, but thats true of all presidents. Trump is simply moving the national expectation by making big demands which he will then ratchet back but the compromise will give him more than he would have got from conventional means.

    Other Presidents unlike Trump had more room to manoeuvre - they had much more goodwill their way from the American public.
    We'll see whether he will get more using his own unconventional methods.

  • The Trump immigration ban must surely just be something he's thrown out to act as a marker. He can't truly believe it'll do any good in the War On Terror. He'd probably save more American lives by locking up all toddlers so that they can't get tooled up and accidentally slot their parents.
    It does throw up some intriguing question. Is he a genius or barmy? Or both? Does he even have a plan, or is it all made up on the fly? Does he listen to his advisors, and are they barmier than him? It's gonna be a hell of a ride.
  • HaroldOHaroldO Posts: 1,185

    The Trump immigration ban must surely just be something he's thrown out to act as a marker. He can't truly believe it'll do any good in the War On Terror. He'd probably save more American lives by locking up all toddlers so that they can't get tooled up and accidentally slot their parents.
    It does throw up some intriguing question. Is he a genius or barmy? Or both? Does he even have a plan, or is it all made up on the fly? Does he listen to his advisors, and are they barmier than him? It's gonna be a hell of a ride.

    He has never been in political office before and is surrounded by nodding dogs, they just all agreed it was easy over whiskeys and would solve all their problems if enacted and he signed it the next morning.
    All the eggheads in the actual government have to make it work, and they barely can. At some point he will turn on them as frustrating his will and we will be in stage two of incompetence.
  • PongPong Posts: 4,693
    TGOHF said:

    Latest Dom Cummings blog on how the referendum was won - includes analysis of the odds over time.

    https://dominiccummings.files.wordpress.com/2017/01/20170130-referendum-22-numbers.pdf


    Remember this was the campaign disparaged daily on here by shrieking retweeters - turns out they knew what they were doing all along.

    "The most successful ad with almost all demographics all the way through was a variation on £350m/NHS that AIQ did early on and we never could beat it."
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 61,257
    HaroldO said:

    Some of my friends are at the local protest in the city centre, which has now turned into an anti-NHS privatisation march and half the crowd have left as a result it seems.

    Let me guess: socialist workers, down with the Tories etc.?
  • RogerRoger Posts: 20,062
    Jobabob said:

    Dromedary said:

    Not much to go on regarding the motive in Quebec. There has been some professional-grade disinfo in this story - not that that's unusual with such an event. Bissonnette doesn't sound like he took the pledge to al-Baghdadi. Calling 911?

    A perfect example of why the frothers should leave well alone. Some of the posts on here from earlier are real keepers.
    But the PB Frothers never, ever learn.
    They're always the same four people. The dregs of PB.
  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670

    Hope springs eternal. David Miliband was last matched on Betfair for next Labour leader at 11.

    How much will everyone be in the hole here if that pans out?
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 54,227
    Jobabob said:

    DavidL said:

    Outrage bus parked up in Aberdeen tonight with maybe 200 people attending a rally to protest about Trump. And it is not even warm. Or dry. Remarkable.

    In PB world anyone who has a conscientious objection to anything is on the 'Outrage Bus'. Frankly David I'd expect better from you.
    I admired one of the signs that said

    OMG
    USA
    WTF
    Brilliant economy.
This discussion has been closed.