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politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » This year’s German election: Angela Merkel’s re-election might

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  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 53,267
    Trump's theme tune (to some of us anyway....)

    http://tinyurl.com/jef55r2
  • not_on_firenot_on_fire Posts: 4,449

    Of course it is our business - what Trump does has a direct affect on us and perceptions of us. We march hand-in-hand with him, after all. The Prime Minister wants to lead the world in partnership with him. She has put the UK's eggs in the US's basket. She has made US policies a matter for debate in the UK.

    US policies are always a matter for debate in the UK, and we always march hand-in-hand with them on most major issues. That doesn't mean that the UK government should be so presumptuous as to try to tell a democratically-elected president of the US, no matter how vulgar and simplistic he is, that he shouldn't implement a campaign promise on which he was elected and which, we are told, doesn't affect British citizens.

    In any case, the reaction is ludicrous. Perhaps people like Yvette Cooper and Ed Miliband really do think Trump has introduced a ban on Muslims. There's much fake news about, and perhaps they've fallen for it.

    For the avoidance of doubt, I'm not defending Trump' policy. I'm defending his right to be an idiot, within the bounds of US and international law, since he is, for better or worse, the democratically-elected president. Comparisons with the 1930s are completely bonkers. So far he has put in place a 90-day ban on the granting of visas to citizens of a few countries. He hasn't bombed anyone, or set up an internment camp in Guantanamo Bay to which people are sent without trial, as Blair's bestest friend did.
    It's not just a visa ban, it's also denial of entry to those with valid visas. And some have been detained for long periods without access to a lawyer.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,654
    Lol Trump has just told the EU what he thinks of it in no uncertain terms there.
  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 22,448
    edited January 2017
    RobD said:

    Scott_P said:

    How long will we get a "clarification" on this?

    @kyliemaclellan: Boris says government only became aware of Trump's immigration policy when it was enacted on Friday evening

    twitter.com/garygibbonblog/status/826117295369916416

    Wasn't everyone told about it during the campaign? :D
    Hush! :smiley:
  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 22,448
    SeanT said:

    Interessante. And bad for Brexit Britain.

    Huge surge for the SPD under Schulz. Bet accordingly.


    https://twitter.com/YanniKouts/status/826113681670959104

    Ties in with Dr Palmers assessment.
  • RobD said:

    Scott_P said:

    How long will we get a "clarification" on this?

    @kyliemaclellan: Boris says government only became aware of Trump's immigration policy when it was enacted on Friday evening

    twitter.com/garygibbonblog/status/826117295369916416

    Wasn't everyone told about it during the campaign? :D
    I worry for Scott P - he is making himself ill
  • mattmatt Posts: 3,789
    Scott_P said:

    Boris "World War 2 Punishment Beatings" Johnson complaining about allusions to World War 2

    He is a shambles. It's embarrassing to watch

    There is an off button, I assume.
  • John_MJohn_M Posts: 7,503
    edited January 2017
    I think Macaulay's adage applies here:

    "We know no spectacle so ridiculous as the British public in one of its periodical fits of morality."

    Who knew that people could get so exercised over the Sudan?
  • Of course it is our business - what Trump does has a direct affect on us and perceptions of us. We march hand-in-hand with him, after all. The Prime Minister wants to lead the world in partnership with him. She has put the UK's eggs in the US's basket. She has made US policies a matter for debate in the UK.

    US policies are always a matter for debate in the UK, and we always march hand-in-hand with them on most major issues. That doesn't mean that the UK government should be so presumptuous as to try to tell a democratically-elected president of the US, no matter how vulgar and simplistic he is, that he shouldn't implement a campaign promise on which he was elected and which, we are told, doesn't affect British citizens.

    In any case, the reaction is ludicrous. Perhaps people like Yvette Cooper and Ed Miliband really do think Trump has introduced a ban on Muslims. There's much fake news about, and perhaps they've fallen for it.

    For the avoidance of doubt, I'm not defending Trump' policy. I'm defending his right to be an idiot, within the bounds of US and international law, since he is, for better or worse, the democratically-elected president. Comparisons with the 1930s are completely bonkers. So far he has put in place a 90-day ban on the granting of visas to citizens of a few countries. He hasn't bombed anyone, or set up an internment camp in Guantanamo Bay to which people are sent without trial, as Blair's bestest friend did.

    You defend his right to be an idiot; others say he is an idiot. When you issue blanket bans based on nationality and place of birth you are, of course, returning t the 1930s.

    The Uk border entry policy currently discriminates between people from EU countries and those from non EU countries.

    So the USA is returning to the present day.
  • It's not just a visa ban, it's also denial of entry to those with valid visas. And some have been detained for long periods without access to a lawyer.

    Yes, the implementation was a shambles.
  • isamisam Posts: 41,118
    edited January 2017
    Scott_P • Posts: 24,788 April 2016
    @JamieRoss7: It must be awful to strongly believe in Brexit and be watching your campaigns make an absolute horse's arse of it.

    Scott_P • Posts: 24,788 April 2016
    Just how stupid do the Brexiteer's think the public are?
    @DPJHodges: Dominic Raab says Barack Obama's comments "don't reflect US trade policy". Dominic Raab or Barack Obama on US trade policy. Your choice.

    Scott_P • Posts: 24,788 April 2016
    @jennymparks: Obama's Brexit referendum intervention is "largely irrelevant" according to @LiamFoxMP #newsnight
    It was a largely irrelevant, apocalyptically bad for Remain, intervention
    Glad we cleared that up
  • MattWMattW Posts: 24,353
    Dixie said:

    SeanT said:

    Trump's just trolling the whole EU, isn't he?

    as it should be. I'm loving Trump.
    Hmmm. Five Eyes members.
  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 22,448

    RobD said:

    Scott_P said:

    How long will we get a "clarification" on this?

    @kyliemaclellan: Boris says government only became aware of Trump's immigration policy when it was enacted on Friday evening

    twitter.com/garygibbonblog/status/826117295369916416

    Wasn't everyone told about it during the campaign? :D
    I worry for Scott P - he is making himself ill
    And all because Cameron and Osborne blew their political careers on the referendum leaving Theresa to (try) and pick up the pieces...
  • John_MJohn_M Posts: 7,503
    MattW said:

    Dixie said:

    SeanT said:

    Trump's just trolling the whole EU, isn't he?

    as it should be. I'm loving Trump.
    Hmmm. Five Eyes members.
    It's the best - and most exclusive - club in the world.
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    BoJo was asked by a Tory backbencher whether he spoke to the State Department. I guess this is why he didn't want to answer...

    @nicholaswatt: Exemption granted in @BorisJohnson phone call today with @realDonaldTrump speechwriter Stephen Miller + with involvement of Jared Kushner
  • RobDRobD Posts: 60,150
    isam said:

    Scott_P • Posts: 24,788 April 2016
    @JamieRoss7: It must be awful to strongly believe in Brexit and be watching your campaigns make an absolute horse's arse of it.

    Scott_P • Posts: 24,788 April 2016
    Just how stupid do the Brexiteer's think the public are?
    @DPJHodges: Dominic Raab says Barack Obama's comments "don't reflect US trade policy". Dominic Raab or Barack Obama on US trade policy. Your choice.


    Scott_P • Posts: 24,788 April 2016
    @jennymparks: Obama's Brexit referendum intervention is "largely irrelevant" according to @LiamFoxMP #newsnight
    It was a largely irrelevant, apocalyptically bad for Remain, intervention
    Glad we cleared that up

    He would have been right on the Obama vs. Raab point if Clinton had won.
  • GIN1138 said:

    Scott_P said:

    Boris "World War 2 Punishment Beatings" Johnson complaining about allusions to World War 2

    He is a shambles. It's embarrassing to watch

    George would have been so much better...

    Lloyd George?
  • RobDRobD Posts: 60,150
    Scott_P said:

    BoJo was asked by a Tory backbencher whether he spoke to the State Department. I guess this is why he didn't want to answer...

    @nicholaswatt: Exemption granted in @BorisJohnson phone call today with @realDonaldTrump speechwriter Stephen Miller + with involvement of Jared Kushner

    He was speaking to a speechwriter? Oh dear!!
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    SeanT said:

    But he's right. You are actually wanking over Hansard.

    Apparently isam is "enjoying himself" over my previous posts...
  • isamisam Posts: 41,118
    SouthamObserver • Posts: 19,033 April 2016
    Jesus, you wouldn't want people who thought Obama was threatening the UK anywhere near serious negotiations. They'd be wailing and whinging and flouncing out every five minutes.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 62,075
    Mr. D, indeed.

    Predictions, which are the business of this site, will frequently be wrong. Not sure we should necessarily castigate those who get things wrong sometimes, as that would include all of us (my 2016 race weekend tips were notoriously bad).
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    @GerriPeev: Boris just compared Trump to a dog: 'His bark is considerably worse than his bite'
  • isamisam Posts: 41,118
    Scott_P said:

    SeanT said:

    But he's right. You are actually wanking over Hansard.

    Apparently isam is "enjoying himself" over my previous posts...
    I am!
  • SeanT said:

    Fuck it, Let's just join in a massive English speaking Global Federation, inspired and led by the wise and great Donald Trump (Peace Be Upon Him).

    USA, UK, Canada, Aus, NZ. The Five Eyes of Human Freedom.

    We would DOMINATE THE WORLD. China would never surpass us, We would regard all French people as gnarled and twisted little midgets, even MORE than they are now. Germany would be our BITCH.

    Let's do it. UNITE THE ENGLISH SPEAKING PEOPLE.

    A large proportion of Canadian speak French...what would you do with them?
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    isam said:

    I am!

    You'll go blind
  • Carolus_RexCarolus_Rex Posts: 1,414

    SeanT said:

    Fuck it, Let's just join in a massive English speaking Global Federation, inspired and led by the wise and great Donald Trump (Peace Be Upon Him).

    USA, UK, Canada, Aus, NZ. The Five Eyes of Human Freedom.

    We would DOMINATE THE WORLD. China would never surpass us, We would regard all French people as gnarled and twisted little midgets, even MORE than they are now. Germany would be our BITCH.

    Let's do it. UNITE THE ENGLISH SPEAKING PEOPLE.

    A large proportion of Canadian speak French...what would you do with them?
    Teach them English?
  • isamisam Posts: 41,118
    edited January 2017
    Scott_P said:

    isam said:

    I am!

    You'll go blind
    -6 anyway! 8(
  • John_M said:

    MattW said:

    Dixie said:

    SeanT said:

    Trump's just trolling the whole EU, isn't he?

    as it should be. I'm loving Trump.
    Hmmm. Five Eyes members.
    It's the best - and most exclusive - club in the world.
    The EU have expressed great concern today that the US is not their friend.

    Maybe they should hug us tighter and do a quick trade deal - the irony in all this is that if Trump makes EU exports and travel extremely difficult European Companies could relocate to UK to benefit from our special relationship
  • RobDRobD Posts: 60,150
    Never knew PB had it's very own Hansard!
  • SeanT said:

    SeanT said:

    Fuck it, Let's just join in a massive English speaking Global Federation, inspired and led by the wise and great Donald Trump (Peace Be Upon Him).

    USA, UK, Canada, Aus, NZ. The Five Eyes of Human Freedom.

    We would DOMINATE THE WORLD. China would never surpass us, We would regard all French people as gnarled and twisted little midgets, even MORE than they are now. Germany would be our BITCH.

    Let's do it. UNITE THE ENGLISH SPEAKING PEOPLE.

    A large proportion of Canadian speak French...what would you do with them?
    As we did with the Welsh.
    Encourage them to move to south America?
  • isam said:

    SouthamObserver • Posts: 19,033 April 2016
    Jesus, you wouldn't want people who thought Obama was threatening the UK anywhere near serious negotiations. They'd be wailing and whinging and flouncing out every five minutes.

    Good quote. And I think that since that day the Obama is a half-Kenyan, uppity colonial brigade have proved me absolutely right.

  • DromedaryDromedary Posts: 1,194
    edited January 2017
    What is the position in France now that Hamon has been chosen as the PS candidate?

    First, his poll score has doubled from 6%-8% to 13%-15%, and he has knocked Mélenchon into fifth place. That is quite something for the nominee of the party of the unpopular Hollande. And it's the first time any PS candidate has been in front of Mélenchon for a long while. Which shows the worth of getting your face and actions into the media.

    Second, whilst I realise I'm comparing one company's polling with another's, at the top of the rankings Le Pen is now further ahead of both Fillon and Macron (3%-4% , from 1%-2%).

    In the US it was Trump's election all the time from the Republican primaries to the vote. His campaign didn't seem to mind that he came out with statements that were rapidly exposed even in mainstream media as lies; or that he spoke about Obamacare without knowing much about what it is; or that he acted in ways, even on film, that few people would be willing to stand up among those who have any decency and argue were anything other than obnoxious. Insulting Ted Cruz's wife, mocking disabled and ill people, hinting that gun nuts should murder Hillary Clinton if she beat him, and so on. None of that mattered. The man's face was everywhere. He was the talk of the town. At some points he was doing new stuff almost every day. The guy at the Spectator who said Trump isn't good at rhetoric clearly hasn't grasped properly what rhetoric is. Ancient Greek rhetoricians were in fact very keen on teaching appropriateness to occasion. Contrary to what some have said, Trump had the media in the palm of his hand. His rallies were important, but most of those who voted for him didn't physically attend any.

    Le Pen's public persona is very different from Trump's, but she has to achieve similar ownership over the election to win it.

    According to the Kantar-Sofres poll, NONE of the candidates gets more respondents saying YES rather than NO when asked whether they would make a good president! Not even Macron.
  • Of course it is our business - what Trump does has a direct affect on us and perceptions of us. We march hand-in-hand with him, after all. The Prime Minister wants to lead the world in partnership with him. She has put the UK's eggs in the US's basket. She has made US policies a matter for debate in the UK.

    US policies are always a matter for debate in the UK, and we always march hand-in-hand with them on most major issues. That doesn't mean that the UK government should be so presumptuous as to try to tell a democratically-elected president of the US, no matter how vulgar and simplistic he is, that he shouldn't implement a campaign promise on which he was elected and which, we are told, doesn't affect British citizens.

    In any case, the reaction is ludicrous. Perhaps people like Yvette Cooper and Ed Miliband really do think Trump has introduced a ban on Muslims. There's much fake news about, and perhaps they've fallen for it.

    For the avoidance of doubt, I'm not defending Trump' policy. I'm defending his right to be an idiot, within the bounds of US and international law, since he is, for better or worse, the democratically-elected president. Comparisons with the 1930s are completely bonkers. So far he has put in place a 90-day ban on the granting of visas to citizens of a few countries. He hasn't bombed anyone, or set up an internment camp in Guantanamo Bay to which people are sent without trial, as Blair's bestest friend did.

    You defend his right to be an idiot; others say he is an idiot. When you issue blanket bans based on nationality and place of birth you are, of course, returning t the 1930s.

    The Uk border entry policy currently discriminates between people from EU countries and those from non EU countries.

    So the USA is returning to the present day.

    As far as I know no-one is automatically banned from entering the UK based solely on where they were born.

  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 62,075
    Mr. Observer, it's entirely possible to think Obama was a significantly under-achieving president who was not a friend of the UK without casting aspersions on his race or heritage.

  • RobDRobD Posts: 60,150
    isam said:
    I'm guessing they would not have gotten away with it??
  • John_MJohn_M Posts: 7,503

    John_M said:

    MattW said:

    Dixie said:

    SeanT said:

    Trump's just trolling the whole EU, isn't he?

    as it should be. I'm loving Trump.
    Hmmm. Five Eyes members.
    It's the best - and most exclusive - club in the world.
    The EU have expressed great concern today that the US is not their friend.

    Maybe they should hug us tighter and do a quick trade deal - the irony in all this is that if Trump makes EU exports and travel extremely difficult European Companies could relocate to UK to benefit from our special relationship
    Let's not get ahead of ourselves here Big_G. I have every expectation that Trump will do something epically stupid (despite all the hysteria, this visa suspension doesn't actually cross that threshold), that will ruin everything. All depends on how he works with Congress and the Senate.

    The EU is incapable of doing anything 'quick'. By dint of its treaty provisions and organisational structure, almost anything more complex than 'what shall we have for lunch' is going to take years. I predict our Brexit deal will be signed two minutes before midnight on March 31st 2019. It's just the way it is.
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    BoJo just used Corbyn and the IRA to deflect from sucking up to Trump
  • AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340
    @isam Graz does not immediately strike me as the most promising place to try to establish a caliphate, so 10/10 for ambition to those Islamists.
  • DromedaryDromedary Posts: 1,194

    Imagine if Labour had been honest at an election and said "We are going to open the borders of the UK to whoever the fuck we like, just to rub the Right's nose in diversity....."

    Labour should just have the decency to STFU about who is allowed across what borders. But then, Olympic-qualifying hypocrisy is all they have offered for many a year.

    What have the Tories offered?

    image

  • SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 39,779
    edited January 2017
    SeanT said:

    Of course it is our business - what Trump does has a direct affect on us and perceptions of us. We march hand-in-hand with him, after all. The Prime Minister wants to lead the world in partnership with him. She has put the UK's eggs in the US's basket. She has made US policies a matter for debate in the UK.

    US policies are always a matter for debate in the UK, and we always march hand-in-hand with them on most major issues. That doesn't mean that the UK government should be so presumptuous as to try to tell a democratically-elected president of the US, no matter how vulgar and simplistic he is, that he shouldn't implement a campaign promise on which he was elected and which, we are told, doesn't affect British citizens.

    In any case, the reaction is ludicrous. Perhaps people like Yvette Cooper and Ed Miliband really do think Trump has introduced a ban on Muslims. There's much fake news about, and perhaps they've fallen for it.

    For the avoidance of doubt, I'm not defending Trump' policy. I'm defending his right to be an idiot, within the bounds of US and international law, since he is, for better or worse, the democratically-elected president. Comparisons with the 1930s are completely bonkers. So far he has put in place a 90-day ban on the granting of visas to citizens of a few countries. He hasn't bombed anyone, or set up an internment camp in Guantanamo Bay to which people are sent without trial, as Blair's bestest friend did.

    You defend his right to be an idiot; others say he is an idiot. When you issue blanket bans based on nationality and place of birth you are, of course, returning t the 1930s.

    Obama and Carter did the same, you stupid fucking cock.

    Obama didn't:

    http://foreignpolicy.com/2017/01/30/sorry-mr-president-the-obama-administration-did-nothing-similar-to-your-immigration-ban/

    Carter did it in retaliation during the Iranian hostage crisis:

    http://www.presidency.ucsb.edu/ws/?pid=33233

    Neither acted in a way comparable to Trump.

    Love,

    A cock xxx

  • mattmatt Posts: 3,789
    edited January 2017
    John_M said:

    John_M said:

    MattW said:

    Dixie said:

    SeanT said:

    Trump's just trolling the whole EU, isn't he?

    as it should be. I'm loving Trump.
    Hmmm. Five Eyes members.
    It's the best - and most exclusive - club in the world.
    The EU have expressed great concern today that the US is not their friend.

    Maybe they should hug us tighter and do a quick trade deal - the irony in all this is that if Trump makes EU exports and travel extremely difficult European Companies could relocate to UK to benefit from our special relationship
    Let's not get ahead of ourselves here Big_G. I have every expectation that Trump will do something epically stupid (despite all the hysteria, this visa suspension doesn't actually cross that threshold), that will ruin everything. All depends on how he works with Congress and the Senate.

    The EU is incapable of doing anything 'quick'. By dint of its treaty provisions and organisational structure, almost anything more complex than 'what shall we have for lunch' is going to take years. I predict our Brexit deal will be signed two minutes before midnight on March 31st 2019. It's just the way it is.
    thats the way every serious negotiation is resolved. I look forward to the increasing breathlessness of tv media and confidently predict that the BBC, across its various outlets, will need a suburb of Bruxelles cleared to house its key staff.
  • John_MJohn_M Posts: 7,503
    Dromedary said:

    Imagine if Labour had been honest at an election and said "We are going to open the borders of the UK to whoever the fuck we like, just to rub the Right's nose in diversity....."

    Labour should just have the decency to STFU about who is allowed across what borders. But then, Olympic-qualifying hypocrisy is all they have offered for many a year.

    What have the Tories offered?

    image

    But isn't that what everyone on the left (and by extension, any right thinking person) wants? Ever rising immigration? Come one, come all? No upper limit?
  • Mr. Observer, it's entirely possible to think Obama was a significantly under-achieving president who was not a friend of the UK without casting aspersions on his race or heritage.

    It is. But Boris didn't.

  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 25,712
    Dromedary said:

    What is the position in France now that Hamon has been chosen as the PS candidate?

    First, his poll score has doubled from 6%-8% to 13%-15%, and he has knocked Mélenchon into fifth place. That is quite something for the nominee of the party of the unpopular Hollande. And it's the first time any PS candidate has been in front of Mélenchon for a long while. Which shows the worth of getting your face and actions into the media.

    Second, whilst I realise I'm comparing one company's polling with another's, at the top of the rankings Le Pen is now further ahead of both Fillon and Macron (3%-4% , from 1%-2%).

    In the US it was Trump's election all the time from the Republican primaries to the vote. His campaign didn't seem to mind that he came out with statements that were rapidly exposed even in mainstream media as lies; or that he spoke about Obamacare without knowing much about what it is; or that he acted in ways, even on film, that few people would be willing to stand up among those who have any decency and argue were anything other than obnoxious. Insulting Ted Cruz's wife, mocking disabled and ill people, hinting that gun nuts should murder Hillary Clinton if she beat him, and so on. None of that mattered. The man's face was everywhere. He was the talk of the town. At some points he was doing new stuff almost every day. The guy at the Spectator who said Trump isn't good at rhetoric clearly hasn't grasped properly what rhetoric is. Ancient Greek rhetoricians were in fact very keen on teaching appropriateness to occasion. Contrary to what some have said, Trump had the media in the palm of his hand. His rallies were important, but most of those who voted for him didn't physically attend any.

    Le Pen's public persona is very different from Trump's, but she has to achieve similar ownership over the election to win it.

    According to the Kantar-Sofres poll, NONE of the candidates gets more respondents saying YES rather than NO when asked whether they would make a good president! Not even Macron.

    Hamon increases LePen s chances if Fillon is eliminated. I cant see the french middle classes turning out in droves to vote for Corbyn fils.

    At what point does LP become the lesser of 2 evils ?
  • Tim_BTim_B Posts: 7,669
    A fan tells me that you can get a comparative bargain for a Super Bowl ticket this year, as prices are down....

    I, of course, am not a fan.

    http://sports.yahoo.com/news/super-bowl-ticket-market-cools-and-heres-one-of-the-reasons-no-cowboys-215301216.html
  • John_M said:

    John_M said:

    MattW said:

    Dixie said:

    SeanT said:

    Trump's just trolling the whole EU, isn't he?

    as it should be. I'm loving Trump.
    Hmmm. Five Eyes members.
    It's the best - and most exclusive - club in the world.
    The EU have expressed great concern today that the US is not their friend.

    Maybe they should hug us tighter and do a quick trade deal - the irony in all this is that if Trump makes EU exports and travel extremely difficult European Companies could relocate to UK to benefit from our special relationship
    Let's not get ahead of ourselves here Big_G. I have every expectation that Trump will do something epically stupid (despite all the hysteria, this visa suspension doesn't actually cross that threshold), that will ruin everything. All depends on how he works with Congress and the Senate.

    The EU is incapable of doing anything 'quick'. By dint of its treaty provisions and organisational structure, almost anything more complex than 'what shall we have for lunch' is going to take years. I predict our Brexit deal will be signed two minutes before midnight on March 31st 2019. It's just the way it is.
    I know it may sound fanciful but only a few weeks ago President Trump would have sounded the same.
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 26,296
    Just watching the Commons on BBC Parliament and it strikes me that there are a disproportionate number of SNP members asking questions. I guess they have nothing better to do as I guess they don't have that much constituency work to do. If you have a problem, you'd go to your MSP.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 63,551
    This tweet made me put a wild £2 on Sarkozy:

    Marie Le Conte ‏@youngvulgarian 2h2 hours ago
    More
    What happens if Fillon ends up having to drop out? Well-liked candidate Juppé has already said he wouldn't run as second choice, so...Sarko?

    At 180 on BF. Definitely a wild flutter, but if 2016 is like 2017...DYOR.
  • DixieDixie Posts: 1,221
    SeanT said:

    Scott_P said:
    What an offensive and preposterous interview. Trump is the president of the United States of America, and won that position against all odds, and won it legally and democratically.

    Caroline Lucas is the Green MP for Brighton and Hove.

    Trump has imposed a ban which merely amps up specific limitations already put in place by Obama. For 90 days.

    What would these people do and say if they actually met a REAL Fascist. Her ovaries would probably pop.

    agreed. The Left are the real loonies.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 62,075
    Mr. Borough, interesting suggestion. I'd be tempted to follow but my Betfair account is utterly anaemic.
  • DixieDixie Posts: 1,221
    SNP in Commons talking as the racist bigots that they are. Picking thier nationality as their superiority. Same as Nazis and Orweillian 1984.
  • DromedaryDromedary Posts: 1,194
    edited January 2017
    A passport entitles its carrier to assistance from the issuing regime, assuming you are not also a citizen of the country you've travelled to. And the country you travel to recognises that right when they let you in. If a regime breaks off diplomatic relations entirely with a second regime, as the US did with Iran in 1980, the first will not let the second directly assist its nationals on the first's territory, and if you were a citizen of the second you wouldn't want to visit the first without protection. What Trump has done is different from Carter and Iran.
  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 22,448
    Dixie said:

    SeanT said:

    Scott_P said:
    What an offensive and preposterous interview. Trump is the president of the United States of America, and won that position against all odds, and won it legally and democratically.

    Caroline Lucas is the Green MP for Brighton and Hove.

    Trump has imposed a ban which merely amps up specific limitations already put in place by Obama. For 90 days.

    What would these people do and say if they actually met a REAL Fascist. Her ovaries would probably pop.

    agreed. The Left are the real loonies.
    *Paging John Loony*
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 26,296
    Ed speaking in the Commons.
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    Ed Miliband up now
  • AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340
    edited January 2017
    Leavers spend the whole of 2016 drawing wildly irrational comparisons with the Second World War and now in 2017 we're supposed to believe that those types of references are so over?

    Full marks for hypocrisy for the foaming Europhobes.
  • RogerRoger Posts: 20,062
    edited January 2017

    Of course it is our business - what Trump does has a direct affect on us and perceptions of us. We march hand-in-hand with him, after all. The Prime Minister wants to lead the world in partnership with him. She has put the UK's eggs in the US's basket. She has made US policies a matter for debate in the UK.

    US policies are always a matter for debate in the UK, and we always march hand-in-hand with them on most major issues. That doesn't mean that the UK government should be so presumptuous as to try to tell a democratically-elected president of the US, no matter how vulgar and simplistic he is, that he shouldn't implement a campaign promise on which he was elected and which, we are told, doesn't affect British citizens.

    In any case, the reaction is ludicrous. Perhaps people like Yvette Cooper and Ed Miliband really do think Trump has introduced a ban on Muslims. There's much fake news about, and perhaps they've fallen for it.

    For the avoidance of doubt, I'm not defending Trump' policy. I'm defending his right to be an idiot, within the bounds of US and international law, since he is, for better or worse, the democratically-elected president. Comparisons with the 1930s are completely bonkers. So far he has put in place a 90-day ban on the granting of visas to citizens of a few countries. He hasn't bombed anyone, or set up an internment camp in Guantanamo Bay to which people are sent without trial, as Blair's bestest friend did.
    It's not just a visa ban, it's also denial of entry to those with valid visas. And some have been detained for long periods without access to a lawyer.
    RN.

    I'm not defending Trump policy.....

    I'd be interested to know what you'd have written if you were. The problem with Tories and I include Blair is that their morality is very much second to expediency and it always has been.
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 26,296

    Leavers spend the whole of 2016 drawing wildly irrational comparisons with the Second World War and now in 2017 we're supposed to believe that those types of references are so over?

    Full marks for hypocrisy for the foaming Europhobes.

    Did we? I thought it was Remainers who said Brexit = WW3.
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    Bercow grants debate
  • John_MJohn_M Posts: 7,503
    edited January 2017

    Leavers spend the whole of 2016 drawing wildly irrational comparisons with the Second World War and now in 2017 we're supposed to believe that those types of references are so over?

    Full marks for hypocrisy for the foaming Europhobes.

    And it's full marks for you for another fine example of screaming metropolitan hyperbole. Bravo.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 63,551

    Mr. Borough, interesting suggestion. I'd be tempted to follow but my Betfair account is utterly anaemic.

    Cheers. That's a shame. I have managed to go all green on FR election unless Melonchon comes out of nowhere.
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    @nicholaswatt: Emergency @houseofcommons debate on @realdonaldtrump travel order granted to @ed_miliband now
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 62,075
    Mr. Borough, it's splendid to be all green.

    I had a run where every Ladbrokes bet seemed to come off and every Betfair one didn't, so my accounts are now thoroughly lopsided.
  • Tim_BTim_B Posts: 7,669
    SeanT said:

    Scott_P said:
    What an offensive and preposterous interview. Trump is the president of the United States of America, and won that position against all odds, and won it legally and democratically.

    Caroline Lucas is the Green MP for Brighton and Hove.

    Trump has imposed a ban which merely amps up specific limitations already put in place by Obama. For 90 days.

    What would these people do and say if they actually met a REAL Fascist. Her ovaries would probably pop.

    Trump did what he said he would do during the campaign, and it appears broadly positively viewed in the US.

    It has to be said that it appears to have been rushed through without the appropriate legal etc reviews, and was in place so fast that the airlines and border patrol were unsure of exactly what they were enforcing.

    The denial of admission to Green Card holders is ridiculous - they do have after all legal right of residence in the US. This does appear to have been fixed.

    Everyone seems to be calling this a 'muslim ban'. It's not - it's a ban on folks from countries which foment the most terrorists, and they happen to be mainly muslim countries. Mabe Egypt and Saudi Arabia should be on the list, but that's a matter for debate.

    If it was truly a 'muslim ban' then it would include Pakistan and the biggest Muslim country of all - Indonesia. There are over 40 mainly muslim countries, and the ban affects 6.
  • AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    Tim_B said:

    SeanT said:

    Scott_P said:
    What an offensive and preposterous interview. Trump is the president of the United States of America, and won that position against all odds, and won it legally and democratically.

    Caroline Lucas is the Green MP for Brighton and Hove.

    Trump has imposed a ban which merely amps up specific limitations already put in place by Obama. For 90 days.

    What would these people do and say if they actually met a REAL Fascist. Her ovaries would probably pop.

    Trump did what he said he would do during the campaign, and it appears broadly positively viewed in the US.

    It has to be said that it appears to have been rushed through without the appropriate legal etc reviews, and was in place so fast that the airlines and border patrol were unsure of exactly what they were enforcing.

    The denial of admission to Green Card holders is ridiculous - they do have after all legal right of residence in the US. This does appear to have been fixed.

    Everyone seems to be calling this a 'muslim ban'. It's not - it's a ban on folks from countries which foment the most terrorists, and they happen to be mainly muslim countries. Mabe Egypt and Saudi Arabia should be on the list, but that's a matter for debate.

    If it was truly a 'muslim ban' then it would include Pakistan and the biggest Muslim country of all - Indonesia. There are over 40 mainly muslim countries, and the ban affects 6.
    9 of the 10 most populous Muslim countries aren't included in the ban. The exception is Iran.
  • Leavers spend the whole of 2016 drawing wildly irrational comparisons with the Second World War and now in 2017 we're supposed to believe that those types of references are so over?

    Full marks for hypocrisy for the foaming Europhobes.

    One thousand years from now, there won't be any LEAVERS and there won't be any REMAINERS, just wankers. Sounds all right to me.
  • JobabobJobabob Posts: 3,807
    Scott_P said:
    Should read 'more than' a million signatures. Poor show Jezza.

    Just keeping up PB's pedantry tradition.
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    Tim_B said:

    Everyone seems to be calling this a 'muslim ban'. It's not - it's a ban on folks from countries which foment the most terrorists,

    Not really

    None of the 9/11 terrorists came from any of these countries, did they?
  • Jobabob said:

    Scott_P said:
    Should read 'more than' a million signatures. Poor show Jezza.

    Just keeping up PB's pedantry tradition.
    At least he hasnt talked about dead people who aren't dead, so a step up.
  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 22,448
    Scott_P said:

    @nicholaswatt: Emergency @houseofcommons debate on @realdonaldtrump travel order granted to @ed_miliband now

    Aren't they having a debate now?
  • @isam Graz does not immediately strike me as the most promising place to try to establish a caliphate, so 10/10 for ambition to those Islamists.

    Didn't the Turks besiege Vienna?
  • isamisam Posts: 41,118
    edited January 2017
    One of Alexandre Bissonnette and Mohamed Khadir was not a gunman but a witness... I reckon Bissonnette must be the gunman, he fled, Khadir arrested at the mosque

    https://twitter.com/dailymail/status/826127450308481025
  • BudGBudG Posts: 711

    This tweet made me put a wild £2 on Sarkozy:

    Marie Le Conte ‏@youngvulgarian 2h2 hours ago
    More
    What happens if Fillon ends up having to drop out? Well-liked candidate Juppé has already said he wouldn't run as second choice, so...Sarko?

    At 180 on BF. Definitely a wild flutter, but if 2016 is like 2017...DYOR.

    I think Juppe would end up running. His denial that he would run is only to be expected, anything less would be seen as putting pressure on Fillon and possibly pre-judging the issue.

    His Party would want a candidate who would have the best chance for success and he was not only the runner-up in the Primary, ahead of Sarkozy but was also riding high in the polls up until the time of his exclusion.
  • JobabobJobabob Posts: 3,807
    RobD said:

    isam said:
    I'm guessing they would not have gotten away with it??
    They would have done, were it not for you pesky kids.
  • Tim_BTim_B Posts: 7,669
    Scott_P said:

    Tim_B said:

    Everyone seems to be calling this a 'muslim ban'. It's not - it's a ban on folks from countries which foment the most terrorists,

    Not really

    None of the 9/11 terrorists came from any of these countries, did they?
    9/11 was just one act. There have been many more terrorist acts worldwide since then, very few of which had Saudi or Egyptian folks involved.
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    GIN1138 said:

    Aren't they having a debate now?

    Yes. That's what it says
  • JobabobJobabob Posts: 3,807

    Jobabob said:

    Scott_P said:
    Should read 'more than' a million signatures. Poor show Jezza.

    Just keeping up PB's pedantry tradition.
    At least he hasnt talked about dead people who aren't dead, so a step up.
    Yes, that represents progress, admittedly.
  • SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 39,779
    edited January 2017
    Sky poll also finds that 49% are opposed to Trump-style ban of Moslems entering the UK; 34% in favour.
  • Scott_P said:

    Tim_B said:

    Everyone seems to be calling this a 'muslim ban'. It's not - it's a ban on folks from countries which foment the most terrorists,

    Not really

    None of the 9/11 terrorists came from any of these countries, did they?
    People of all faiths are banned from the countries, eg, Syrian Christians and Iraqi Yazidis.
  • Tim_BTim_B Posts: 7,669
    AndyJS said:

    Tim_B said:

    SeanT said:

    Scott_P said:
    What an offensive and preposterous interview. Trump is the president of the United States of America, and won that position against all odds, and won it legally and democratically.

    Caroline Lucas is the Green MP for Brighton and Hove.

    Trump has imposed a ban which merely amps up specific limitations already put in place by Obama. For 90 days.

    What would these people do and say if they actually met a REAL Fascist. Her ovaries would probably pop.

    Trump did what he said he would do during the campaign, and it appears broadly positively viewed in the US.

    It has to be said that it appears to have been rushed through without the appropriate legal etc reviews, and was in place so fast that the airlines and border patrol were unsure of exactly what they were enforcing.

    The denial of admission to Green Card holders is ridiculous - they do have after all legal right of residence in the US. This does appear to have been fixed.

    Everyone seems to be calling this a 'muslim ban'. It's not - it's a ban on folks from countries which foment the most terrorists, and they happen to be mainly muslim countries. Mabe Egypt and Saudi Arabia should be on the list, but that's a matter for debate.

    If it was truly a 'muslim ban' then it would include Pakistan and the biggest Muslim country of all - Indonesia. There are over 40 mainly muslim countries, and the ban affects 6.
    9 of the 10 most populous Muslim countries aren't included in the ban. The exception is Iran.
    Exactly. And it's not a ban - it's a suspension.
  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 21,769
    May probably now wishing she had stayed at home and watched Coronation St.
  • Sky poll also finds that 49% are opposed to Trump-style ban of Moslems entering the UK; 34% in favour.

    Surprised the number in favour is that high.
  • SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 39,779
    edited January 2017
    Tim_B said:

    Scott_P said:

    Tim_B said:

    Everyone seems to be calling this a 'muslim ban'. It's not - it's a ban on folks from countries which foment the most terrorists,

    Not really

    None of the 9/11 terrorists came from any of these countries, did they?
    9/11 was just one act. There have been many more terrorist acts worldwide since then, very few of which had Saudi or Egyptian folks involved.

    How many Americans have been killed by Syrian immigrants since 9/11, or those from any of the other six countries affected by the ban?

  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 22,448
    edited January 2017
    Scott_P said:

    GIN1138 said:

    Aren't they having a debate now?

    Yes. That's what it says
    Sorry, the deluge of Tweets you throw at us when you are excited like this can be hard to keep up with...
  • AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    10,000 have signed petition in Bristol West, only 683 in Boston & Skegness:

    http://petitionmap.unboxedconsulting.com/?petition=171928&area=eng
  • SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 39,779
    edited January 2017

    Sky poll also finds that 49% are opposed to Trump-style ban of Moslems entering the UK; 34% in favour.

    Surprised the number in favour is that high.

    I am - very pleasantly - surprised it is so low, to be honest.

  • Ishmael_ZIshmael_Z Posts: 8,981

    Tim_B said:

    Scott_P said:

    Tim_B said:

    Everyone seems to be calling this a 'muslim ban'. It's not - it's a ban on folks from countries which foment the most terrorists,

    Not really

    None of the 9/11 terrorists came from any of these countries, did they?
    9/11 was just one act. There have been many more terrorist acts worldwide since then, very few of which had Saudi or Egyptian folks involved.

    How many Americans have been killed by Syrian immigrants since 9/11, or those from any of the other six countries affected by the ban?

    The boot is on the other foot: those are the 7 countries the usa has bombed in the last 30 years.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,654
    edited January 2017
    BudG said:

    This tweet made me put a wild £2 on Sarkozy:

    Marie Le Conte ‏@youngvulgarian 2h2 hours ago
    More
    What happens if Fillon ends up having to drop out? Well-liked candidate Juppé has already said he wouldn't run as second choice, so...Sarko?

    At 180 on BF. Definitely a wild flutter, but if 2016 is like 2017...DYOR.

    I think Juppe would end up running. His denial that he would run is only to be expected, anything less would be seen as putting pressure on Fillon and possibly pre-judging the issue.

    His Party would want a candidate who would have the best chance for success and he was not only the runner-up in the Primary, ahead of Sarkozy but was also riding high in the polls up until the time of his exclusion.
    Jesus every time you post I feel like the grim reaper of doom is trying to pull my French book apart.
  • DromedaryDromedary Posts: 1,194
    edited January 2017
    Scott_P said:

    (snip)

    Corbyn refers to "the petition supporting my calls"! He doesn't quite grasp the concept of "valid visa" either.

    Why didn't Trump do this the grown-up way and have the acting Secretary of State call in the ambassadors and inform them that the US would no longer allow entry to their citizens?

    The answer is that he wants to be a tough bully; he wants a fair-sized proportion of the US population thinking that refugees being denied entry because they're "possible turrurists" or "Moooslims" - no more wimpish, snowflaky, politically correct, cucky "caring" about the interests of these non-white foreigners - is the greatest thing they've ever heard. It's like watching the wrestling but for real, and no "librulz" are gonna tell them what they should and shouldn't think, etc. You can imagine them going "YEAH! GO TRUMP!" when they watch the TV. This is why. There was no imminent danger from any of the people who had already been issued with visas - no new intelligence.
  • GeoffMGeoffM Posts: 6,071

    Tim_B said:

    Scott_P said:

    Tim_B said:

    Everyone seems to be calling this a 'muslim ban'. It's not - it's a ban on folks from countries which foment the most terrorists,

    Not really

    None of the 9/11 terrorists came from any of these countries, did they?
    9/11 was just one act. There have been many more terrorist acts worldwide since then, very few of which had Saudi or Egyptian folks involved.

    How many Americans have been killed by Syrian immigrants since 9/11, or those from any of the other six countries affected by the ban?

    Eighty three.
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 19,662
    Anecdotally, at least on my Facebook, is that most people who supported Brexit quite passionately here in the North East are very much against Donald Trump.
  • rural_voterrural_voter Posts: 2,038
    Roger said:

    Of course it is our business - what Trump does has a direct affect on us and perceptions of us. We march hand-in-hand with him, after all. The Prime Minister wants to lead the world in partnership with him. She has put the UK's eggs in the US's basket. She has made US policies a matter for debate in the UK.

    US policies are always a matter for debate in the UK, and we always march hand-in-hand with them on most major issues. That doesn't mean that the UK government should be so presumptuous as to try to tell a democratically-elected president of the US, no matter how vulgar and simplistic he is, that he shouldn't implement a campaign promise on which he was elected and which, we are told, doesn't affect British citizens.

    In any case, the reaction is ludicrous. Perhaps people like Yvette Cooper and Ed Miliband really do think Trump has introduced a ban on Muslims. There's much fake news about, and perhaps they've fallen for it.

    For the avoidance of doubt, I'm not defending Trump' policy. I'm defending his right to be an idiot, within the bounds of US and international law, since he is, for better or worse, the democratically-elected president. Comparisons with the 1930s are completely bonkers. So far he has put in place a 90-day ban on the granting of visas to citizens of a few countries. He hasn't bombed anyone, or set up an internment camp in Guantanamo Bay to which people are sent without trial, as Blair's bestest friend did.
    It's not just a visa ban, it's also denial of entry to those with valid visas. And some have been detained for long periods without access to a lawyer.
    RN.

    I'm not defending Trump policy.....

    I'd be interested to know what you'd have written if you were. The problem with Tories and I include Blair is that their morality is very much second to expediency and it always has been.
    Tories can't apparently make up their mind whether they're One-Nation Conservatives, as in 1945-79, and before that, or Radical Right Liberals as from 1979-2017.

    R4 reports Verhofstadt as saying Trump is as much a threat as radical Islam. I think/hope that's OTT but I know which bloc I'd rather be allied with. We're headed from the frying pan into the fire.
  • Sky poll also finds that 49% are opposed to Trump-style ban of Moslems entering the UK; 34% in favour.

    People of all faiths are banned from the countries, eg, Syrian Christians and Iraqi Yazidis.
  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 21,769
    edited January 2017
    1,210 gun deaths in the US this January. JANUARY.
  • AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395

    Anecdotally, at least on my Facebook, is that most people who supported Brexit quite passionately here in the North East are very much against Donald Trump.

    Asking people in NE England whether they support Trump is neither here nor there, the question is whether they support Paul Nuttall.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 43,111
    edited January 2017
    Scott_P said:

    @nicholaswatt: Emergency @houseofcommons debate on @realdonaldtrump travel order granted to @ed_miliband now

    I'd have thought with all this going on the last thing Trump should be doing is granting a travel order to Ed Miliband.
This discussion has been closed.