Sorry to disagree with the consensus but I think @Casino_Royale is very wide of the mark. Brexit is all about controlling immigration. Guff about sovereignty is just that: guff.
The rest of the EU has seen this very clearly and it explains in large part the distaste with which they now regard Britain. So yes, they see Britain as ungrateful and nasty. Basically, they're right.
Goodness me. I voted Remain but it is very very hard to admire your mindset when you write such unpleasant nonsense.
Just as we are a 'small c' conservative country we are an unatural bedfellow with our European friends. It has always been an unhappy union. Much better to be a good friend nextdoor than a miserable prisoner within.
Our lack of fit may not be nearly so obvious for many of the other potential leavers though. For them the challenges are primarily Euro / economic incompatibility driven whereas our disconnect was political / legal / cultural (ie more profound).
Thought that was Scotland you were describing Patrick, exactly the same.
Och. Aye. The noo. Adios. Bon voyage. All the best. Which currency will you have? Customs at Gretna?
I have come to realise that Brexit was an act of 'speciation'.
Darwin realised that when (especially bird) populations get divided in some way the separated parts will continue to evolve in their own ways until at some point they are no longer physically capable of reproducing with each other, and have in fact become separate species. A bullfinch can screw a chaffinch but they can't make baby finches. Horses and donkeys are half way there - able only to produce sterile mules together.
Being physically safe in our island and looking to the sea and our navy to drive a global trading mindset, we have been pulling away from continental Europe for centuries. 'Fog in channel'. Our legal, electoral, political and cultural (LEPC) systems have evolved along their own path. We are a meme Galapagos. The Alps and the Catholic/Protestant divide on the continent produce some political mules but by and large continental Europe shares enough common LEPC DNA to make cohabitation and evolution viable. This is no longer true for the UK. Joining the EU (strictly speaking its predecessors) 40 years ago was an attempt to reharmonise a diverging LEPC trajectory. But forces of nature do their own thing. We've speciated and don't share enough EU DNA any more (and probably haven't for quite some time).
The UK is a fine stallion and we should stop pretending that shacking up with donkeys is a good thing any more. Let's find some nice mares instead.
"Nature Notes" in yesterday's Telegraph has the following reverse speciation story which could be a Brexit allegory:
Regional bird accents now lost in the UK have been discovered on the other side of the world. Research, published in Ecography, examined the songs of yellowhammer birds which have suffered a severe population decline in Britain. It was therefore thought that some regional dialects of the species had died out. However, through a citizen science project in which the public captured and submitted recordings of singing yellowhammers on their smartphones, scientists found many of the dialects thriving in New Zealand. Some 600 yellowhammers were introduced to New Zealand in the 1860s and 1870s and, because of their relatively short history, researchers had expected them to exhibit fewer regional dialects than those in Britain. In fact, they boasted almost twice as many, likely due to them retaining song structures from the UK
Paul Nuttall is from Bootle. He cannot disguise his routes. Have you been at Stoke City when they play Liverpool. The emnity is enormous, it is a very hostile atmosphere, probably the worst I have experienced in watching football for 50 years. Think UKIP and himself are making a big mistake especially against a background of falling support for the party. If there is an argument as to who can stop the purples the Conservatives have a dilemma, with each passing day they sound more like UKIP, so it is left to Labour or the Lib Dems.
If this is true (and I think it is) then surely a value lay at around 2-1?
re Project Fear and HSBC transferring 1000 jobs to France, I know that not all jobs are equal (certainly in the taxation paying sense), but its worth pointing out that in today's employment report, the ONS said "the number of people in work slipped by 9,000 to just over 31.8 million".
Le Monde editorial says that May's speech yesterday was a complete capitulation to a united EU27 and that she is just using nationalist rhetoric to disguise her failure.
By the way, https://twitter.com/jamesdoleman is worth a follow today - he's live tweeting a court case of a punter, who took £100 @ 2500/1 on Rangers getting relegated, versus Coral.
I think he'll lose. He should have asked for a bet on Rangers not being in the top flight next season. I'd be interested to know if Corals paid out on Dundee being promoted as the beneficiaries of Rangers' demise.
Yes, I think he'll lose too. But it's been entertaining, especially Coral's then trading director stating: "2500/1 odds would not have been offered if there was a chance of the event happening."
What is the argument that Coral should not pay out?
re Project Fear and HSBC transferring 1000 jobs to France, I know that not all jobs are equal (certainly in the taxation paying sense), but its worth pointing out that in today's employment report, the ONS said "the number of people in work slipped by 9,000 to just over 31.8 million".
Helps put the 1000 jobs in context I think.
Jobs in financial services are more at risk from automation and offshoring than from Brexit. Indeed, I suspect that Brexit will stimulate the push to automate as much as possible. While banks will want to have a base within the EU in order to get the "passport" for those services which need it, they certainly don't want to have more jobs there (with all the expensive social security payments/rigid employment laws and the rest) than they absolutely have to.
Margins are under pressure and it is much more difficult to make money than it was. Shareholders expect a return on their equity. These factors will drive how banks respond to the new regulatory landscape. Those who think that cities in the EU will get vast numbers of high paying jobs on a 1 to 1 basis from London are living in cloud cuckoo land. Banks will do just enough to carry on doing business in the EU.
Remember also that countries with banks with large balance sheets are vulnerable if things go wrong. That too will affect the post-Brexit reality.
Le Monde editorial says that May's speech yesterday was a complete capitulation to a united EU27 and that she is just using nationalist rhetoric to disguise her failure.
I see the lamentations continue apace with much rending of garments and gnashing of teeth, however, cosying up to the French must be a real low point for some
Posters deriding Boris may have missed the media narrative in 24 hrs has highlighted that "punishment measures from the EU are illogical and counterproductive"
As others have said, a worthy set of posts and apologies for the severe snip.
There will be those in the EU who genuinely don't understand why we want to LEAVE and there will be a larger number who do.
I came to accept the EU, though established with and for a long period operating under the best of intentions and ideals, had become a fundamentally illiberal construct. The desire to integrate and harmonise, while laudable in theory, was flawed in practice even within the original 12 let alone the post-1989 arrivals.
The Single Market served only to draw wealth into the richest regions of the EU so London, Bavaria, the Rhineland and a few other places prospered while other areas were systematically depopulated and impoverished. Given that people will always go to the money, making that process easy via Freedom of Movement led to a large-scale economic migration replicated on a much larger scale from outside the EU.
Yet I have no desire to live in a Singapore-style country with low wages, low taxes and a system where workers have little or no defence from exploitation. To be "Global Britain" cannot be simply about a race to the bottom in competitiveness and as an observation, how does an "outward-looking global economy" resolve that immigration conundrum where we welcome the rich to live and invest and tolerate the poor to clean the streets and make the coffee or tea ?
The first step, getting out the EU, is the easy bit. The next stage, defining the type of country we want to be, is the tough bit and needs much more national debate and thought than we have seen so far. Before rushing headlong into trade deals with the Anglosphere (who will no doubt be friendly) and places like Russia, China, Brazil and India who may be harder to deal with, we need to get these fundamentals resolved.
May yesterday glossed over the post-EU future and fell back on romanticised platitudes. Trying to define the kind of country, economy, society and politics Britain needs and wants for the 2020s and beyond is the big challenge not getting out of the EU.
I see the lamentations continue apace with much rending of garments and gnashing of teeth, however, cosying up to the French must be a real low point for some
I think the angry responses by EU politicians and media overnight and continuing into today are mainly provoked by May shooting the EU's fox.
I see the lamentations continue apace with much rending of garments and gnashing of teeth, however, cosying up to the French must be a real low point for some
I think the angry responses by EU politicians and media overnight and continuing into today are mainly provoked by May shooting the EU's fox.
Yes they were looking forward to applying thumbscrews to get lovely financial concessions for us staying in the single market and some dreaful Brexit - lite.
Now there is a BIG hole in their budget - and it's going to hurt.
@paulwaugh: Does the Prime Minister have full confidence in Boris Johnson? No10 "Yes".
I suspect Boris would rather like to be forced out over this. It would endear him to the We-Love-Sticking-It-To-Foreigners Brigade whilst removing him from any subsequent fallout over the Brexit shenanigans. He can then make a move on the leadership in a few years when things are more settled.
Jeremy Cliffe's translation swaps England for Britain. Funny that...
That's probably a correct translation. In France, and indeed in most countries, English and British are regarded as largely interchangeable, except where the context requires otherwise. In fact, that was the case in Britain itself until quite recently: Nelson's signal was, after all, "England expects that every man will do his duty".
@paulwaugh: Does the Prime Minister have full confidence in Boris Johnson? No10 "Yes".
I suspect Boris would rather like to be forced out over this. It would endear him to the We-Love-Sticking-It-To-Foreigners Brigade whilst removing him from any subsequent fallout over the Brexit shenanigans. He can then make a move on the leadership in a few years when things are more settled.
I'm disgusted with Boris Johnson. His failure to weave in a reference to the Dirty Dozen principles is just too much.
Jeremy Cliffe's translation swaps England for Britain. Funny that...
That's probably a correct translation. In France, and indeed in most countries, English and British are regarded as largely interchangeable, except where the context requires otherwise. In fact, that was the case in Britain itself until quite recently: Nelson's signal was, after all, "England expects that every man will do his duty".
Yebbut that was only four years after the Union of GB with Ireland
As others have said, a worthy set of posts and apologies for the severe snip.
There will be those in the EU who genuinely don't understand why we want to LEAVE and there will be a larger number who do.
I came to accept the EU, though established with and for a long period operating under the best of intentions and ideals, had become a fundamentally illiberal construct. The desire to integrate and harmonise, while laudable in theory, was flawed in practice even within the original 12 let alone the post-1989 arrivals.
The Single Market served only to draw wealth into the richest regions of the EU so London, Bavaria, the Rhineland and a few other places prospered while other areas were systematically depopulated and impoverished. Given that people will always go to the money, making that process easy via Freedom of Movement led to a large-scale economic migration replicated on a much larger scale from outside the EU.
Yet I have no desire to live in a Singapore-style country with low wages, low taxes and a system where workers have little or no defence from exploitation. To be "Global Britain" cannot be simply about a race to the bottom in competitiveness and as an observation, how does an "outward-looking global economy" resolve that immigration conundrum where we welcome the rich to live and invest and tolerate the poor to clean the streets and make the coffee or tea ?
The first step, getting out the EU, is the easy bit. The next stage, defining the type of country we want to be, is the tough bit and needs much more national debate and thought than we have seen so far. Before rushing headlong into trade deals with the Anglosphere (who will no doubt be friendly) and places like Russia, China, Brazil and India who may be harder to deal with, we need to get these fundamentals resolved.
May yesterday glossed over the post-EU future and fell back on romanticised platitudes. Trying to define the kind of country, economy, society and politics Britain needs and wants for the 2020s and beyond is the big challenge not getting out of the EU.
I think this - and particularly your last two paras - are absolutely spot on. What sort of country we want to be and what kind of relationship we want to have with the European continent are absolutely what we need to have a sensible national conversation about.
It's the perennial question of British history. There have been a number of different answers in the past. What our future answer should / could be is perhaps worthy of a thread header from you?
Remainers on here are employing every negative story they can find, often posting it several times, in a vain attempt to re-visit project fear. It is pointless as no one is listening - we are leaving the EU
Jeremy Cliffe's translation swaps England for Britain. Funny that...
That's probably a correct translation. In France, and indeed in most countries, English and British are regarded as largely interchangeable, except where the context requires otherwise. In fact, that was the case in Britain itself until quite recently: Nelson's signal was, after all, "England expects that every man will do his duty".
Whether correct or not, the nuance does expose a fundamental incoherence in the structure of the nation that we are now expecting to bear the strains of the nationalist project that is Brexit.
Remainers on here are employing every negative story they can find, often posting it several times, in a vain attempt to re-visit project fear. It is pointless as no one is listening - we are leaving the EU
Before long mothers will tell their easily-led children, "If 52% of your friends told you to jump off a cliff, would you do it?"
Remainers on here are employing every negative story they can find, often posting it several times, in a vain attempt to re-visit project fear. It is pointless as no one is listening - we are leaving the EU
Before long mothers will tell their easily-led children, "If 52% of your friends told you to jump off a cliff, would you do it?"
The question would come back, why were we asked if we wanted to jump off in the first place if it was so dangerous?
Remainers on here are employing every negative story they can find, often posting it several times, in a vain attempt to re-visit project fear. It is pointless as no one is listening - we are leaving the EU
Scott is hoping that soon a bat signal will light up with a high viz jacket symbol projected onto the gloomy Davos clouds : "Come back George - we need you to save the day .."
Sorry to disagree with the consensus but I think @Casino_Royale is very wide of the mark. Brexit is all about controlling immigration. Guff about sovereignty is just that: guff.
The rest of the EU has seen this very clearly and it explains in large part the distaste with which they now regard Britain. So yes, they see Britain as ungrateful and nasty. Basically, they're right.
I agree. I have never erred from my belief that it was all about immigration, and no amount of trying to justify the result afterwards will change that.
Long text message/email explanations always make me think people are trying to spin something, and same goes for posts/blogs
I see the lamentations continue apace with much rending of garments and gnashing of teeth, however, cosying up to the French must be a real low point for some
I think the angry responses by EU politicians and media overnight and continuing into today are mainly provoked by May shooting the EU's fox.
Yes they were looking forward to applying thumbscrews to get lovely financial concessions for us staying in the single market and some dreaful Brexit - lite.
Now there is a BIG hole in their budget - and it's going to hurt.
Thing about shot foxes is that they're dead.
No matter the thrill doing it or denied to the other side, it's gone.
The reality is that there is plenty in the single market we want and now we will have to negotiate gaining stuff rather than giving stuff up which is much harder.
Jeremy Cliffe's translation swaps England for Britain. Funny that...
That's probably a correct translation. In France, and indeed in most countries, English and British are regarded as largely interchangeable, except where the context requires otherwise. In fact, that was the case in Britain itself until quite recently: Nelson's signal was, after all, "England expects that every man will do his duty".
I see the lamentations continue apace with much rending of garments and gnashing of teeth, however, cosying up to the French must be a real low point for some
I think the angry responses by EU politicians and media overnight and continuing into today are mainly provoked by May shooting the EU's fox.
Yes they were looking forward to applying thumbscrews to get lovely financial concessions for us staying in the single market and some dreaful Brexit - lite.
Now there is a BIG hole in their budget - and it's going to hurt.
Thing about shot foxes is that they're dead.
No matter the thrill doing it or denied to the other side, it's gone.
The reality is that there is plenty in the single market we want and now we will have to negotiate gaining stuff rather than giving stuff up which is much harder.
Yes but now that we have both shot our fox and put a gun to our head and threatened to pull the trigger, the EU will definitely give us what we want.
Jeremy Cliffe's translation swaps England for Britain. Funny that...
That's probably a correct translation. In France, and indeed in most countries, English and British are regarded as largely interchangeable, except where the context requires otherwise. In fact, that was the case in Britain itself until quite recently: Nelson's signal was, after all, "England expects that every man will do his duty".
Navabi time, 211 years ago quite recent.
I generally consider anything post 1200 AD as modern
I see the lamentations continue apace with much rending of garments and gnashing of teeth, however, cosying up to the French must be a real low point for some
I think the angry responses by EU politicians and media overnight and continuing into today are mainly provoked by May shooting the EU's fox.
Yes they were looking forward to applying thumbscrews to get lovely financial concessions for us staying in the single market and some dreaful Brexit - lite.
Now there is a BIG hole in their budget - and it's going to hurt.
Thing about shot foxes is that they're dead.
No matter the thrill doing it or denied to the other side, it's gone.
The reality is that there is plenty in the single market we want and now we will have to negotiate gaining stuff rather than giving stuff up which is much harder.
Shot foxes don't get to steal your chickens any more.
Jeremy Cliffe's translation swaps England for Britain. Funny that...
That's probably a correct translation. In France, and indeed in most countries, English and British are regarded as largely interchangeable, except where the context requires otherwise. In fact, that was the case in Britain itself until quite recently: Nelson's signal was, after all, "England expects that every man will do his duty".
It's a shame Duncan didn't have the same thought before Camperdown. "Scotland expects..."
Sorry to disagree with the consensus but I think @Casino_Royale is very wide of the mark. Brexit is all about controlling immigration. Guff about sovereignty is just that: guff.
The rest of the EU has seen this very clearly and it explains in large part the distaste with which they now regard Britain. So yes, they see Britain as ungrateful and nasty. Basically, they're right.
I agree. I have never erred from my belief that it was all about immigration, and no amount of trying to justify the result afterwards will change that.
Long text message/email explanations always make me think people are trying to spin something, and same goes for posts/blogs
Concern over immigration (33%) comes second to "UK decisions should be made in UK" (49%) and ahead of concern over future direction of EU (13%). Ashcroft can be a twit and polls can be wrong, but not that wrong.
By the way, https://twitter.com/jamesdoleman is worth a follow today - he's live tweeting a court case of a punter, who took £100 @ 2500/1 on Rangers getting relegated, versus Coral.
I think he'll lose. He should have asked for a bet on Rangers not being in the top flight next season. I'd be interested to know if Corals paid out on Dundee being promoted as the beneficiaries of Rangers' demise.
Yes, I think he'll lose too. But it's been entertaining, especially Coral's then trading director stating: "2500/1 odds would not have been offered if there was a chance of the event happening."
What is the argument that Coral should not pay out?
Le Monde editorial says that May's speech yesterday was a complete capitulation to a united EU27 and that she is just using nationalist rhetoric to disguise her failure.
To be honest I don't think they are far wrong. She is trying to pretend exiting the single market is her cunning plan whereas we all know that in reality we were never going to get a deal to stay in given our obsession with immigration. She's going to get sweet FA and pretend she was so macho by walking away first.
Sorry to disagree with the consensus but I think @Casino_Royale is very wide of the mark. Brexit is all about controlling immigration. Guff about sovereignty is just that: guff.
The rest of the EU has seen this very clearly and it explains in large part the distaste with which they now regard Britain. So yes, they see Britain as ungrateful and nasty. Basically, they're right.
I agree. I have never erred from my belief that it was all about immigration, and no amount of trying to justify the result afterwards will change that.
Long text message/email explanations always make me think people are trying to spin something, and same goes for posts/blogs
Concern over immigration (33%) comes second to "UK decisions should be made in UK" (49%) and ahead of concern over future direction of EU (13%). Ashcroft can bre a twit and polls can be wrong, but not that wrong.
"Concern over immigration" is a subset of "UK decisions should be made in the UK" I would say, a large part of the decisions we should be making would be those on immigration.
I see the lamentations continue apace with much rending of garments and gnashing of teeth, however, cosying up to the French must be a real low point for some
I think the angry responses by EU politicians and media overnight and continuing into today are mainly provoked by May shooting the EU's fox.
Yes they were looking forward to applying thumbscrews to get lovely financial concessions for us staying in the single market and some dreaful Brexit - lite.
Now there is a BIG hole in their budget - and it's going to hurt.
Thing about shot foxes is that they're dead.
No matter the thrill doing it or denied to the other side, it's gone.
The reality is that there is plenty in the single market we want and now we will have to negotiate gaining stuff rather than giving stuff up which is much harder.
Shot foxes don't get to steal your chickens any more.
Sure. After you've shot it leave all the chickens out at night. Should be fine.
Still not changed my mind about this by-election, its Labour's to lose but with an almighty bun fight for second place behind them. Assuming they don't parachute in some luvvie from Islington, of course.
By the way, https://twitter.com/jamesdoleman is worth a follow today - he's live tweeting a court case of a punter, who took £100 @ 2500/1 on Rangers getting relegated, versus Coral.
I think he'll lose. He should have asked for a bet on Rangers not being in the top flight next season. I'd be interested to know if Corals paid out on Dundee being promoted as the beneficiaries of Rangers' demise.
Yes, I think he'll lose too. But it's been entertaining, especially Coral's then trading director stating: "2500/1 odds would not have been offered if there was a chance of the event happening."
What is the argument that Coral should not pay out?
Jeremy Cliffe's translation swaps England for Britain. Funny that...
That's probably a correct translation. In France, and indeed in most countries, English and British are regarded as largely interchangeable, except where the context requires otherwise. In fact, that was the case in Britain itself until quite recently: Nelson's signal was, after all, "England expects that every man will do his duty".
Whether correct or not, the nuance does expose a fundamental incoherence in the structure of the nation that we are now expecting to bear the strains of the nationalist project that is Brexit.
You have your own nationalist project, involving 28 countries with diverse cultures, languages, and legal systems becoming a federal state or something very much like it. By your own standards, the EU is incoherent.
Le Monde editorial says that May's speech yesterday was a complete capitulation to a united EU27 and that she is just using nationalist rhetoric to disguise her failure.
To be honest I don't think they are far wrong. She is trying to pretend exiting the single market is her cunning plan whereas we all know that in reality we were never going to get a deal to stay in given our obsession with immigration. She's going to get sweet FA and pretend she was so macho by walking away first.
There is a deal to be done. The politicians have to distance themselves from the nationalistic posturing in the newspapers across Europe. Some, like Boris, clearly can't, and should not be allowed anywhere near negotiations. It is in nobody's interests to play silly buggers, least of all ours. Germany exports to us, but it also invests in us. Some German companies have big operations here that employ a lot of people.
@paulwaugh: Does the Prime Minister have full confidence in Boris Johnson? No10 "Yes".
If insulting the French is wrong, I don't want to be right.
It's nice to see Remainers taking the French side and confirming everything we've always suspected about them.
You don't have to be particularly pro-French to find it cringeworthy when our buffoon of a Foreign Secretary references a war that ended three-quarters of a century ago to try and score political points. The rest of Europe have moved on from "the war" and "empire", it's about time people like Boris did the same. He comes across like some raddled old actress constantly showing people pictures of herself in her hey-day.
@paulwaugh: Does the Prime Minister have full confidence in Boris Johnson? No10 "Yes".
If insulting the French is wrong, I don't want to be right.
It's nice to see Remainers taking the French side and confirming everything we've always suspected about them.
You don't have to be particularly pro-French to find it cringeworthy when our buffoon of a Foreign Secretary references a war that ended three-quarters of a century ago to try and score political points. The rest of Europe have moved on from "the war" and "empire", it's about time people like Boris did the same. He comes across like some raddled old actress constantly showing people pictures of herself in her hey-day.
Are we no longer allowed to use historical analogies to make a point, however ham fisted? And anyway, he was actually referring to WW2 movies, which are more contemporary!
By the way, https://twitter.com/jamesdoleman is worth a follow today - he's live tweeting a court case of a punter, who took £100 @ 2500/1 on Rangers getting relegated, versus Coral.
I think he'll lose. He should have asked for a bet on Rangers not being in the top flight next season. I'd be interested to know if Corals paid out on Dundee being promoted as the beneficiaries of Rangers' demise.
Yes, I think he'll lose too. But it's been entertaining, especially Coral's then trading director stating: "2500/1 odds would not have been offered if there was a chance of the event happening."
What is the argument that Coral should not pay out?
If I bet 10 p at 2500 on Labour winning North Shropshire (Tory since 1835) and they win in 2020 I'd expect £250.
I think the argument is that RFC were not in fact relegated but the business went into administration and was liquidated, then the new company/team was allowed to enter the 3rd division (variations of this view have been sending the blue side of Glasgow into a frenzied rage for the last 4 years).
I see the lamentations continue apace with much rending of garments and gnashing of teeth, however, cosying up to the French must be a real low point for some
I think the angry responses by EU politicians and media overnight and continuing into today are mainly provoked by May shooting the EU's fox.
I'm really struggling to understand how surrendering the single market before the negotiations have even got started is shooting the EU's fox.
@paulwaugh: Does the Prime Minister have full confidence in Boris Johnson? No10 "Yes".
If insulting the French is wrong, I don't want to be right.
It's nice to see Remainers taking the French side and confirming everything we've always suspected about them.
You don't have to be particularly pro-French to find it cringeworthy when our buffoon of a Foreign Secretary references a war that ended three-quarters of a century ago to try and score political points. The rest of Europe have moved on from "the war" and "empire", it's about time people like Boris did the same. He comes across like some raddled old actress constantly showing people pictures of herself in her hey-day.
A joke about football? Everyone laughs heartily what a good bloke.
About one of the most catastrophic wars of our times? Utter utter moron.
I see the lamentations continue apace with much rending of garments and gnashing of teeth, however, cosying up to the French must be a real low point for some
I think the angry responses by EU politicians and media overnight and continuing into today are mainly provoked by May shooting the EU's fox.
I'm really struggling to understand how surrendering the single market before the negotiations have even got started is shooting the EU's fox.
Staying in the single market would have undoubtedly involved an expensive fudge, half in and half out.
@paulwaugh: Does the Prime Minister have full confidence in Boris Johnson? No10 "Yes".
If insulting the French is wrong, I don't want to be right.
It's nice to see Remainers taking the French side and confirming everything we've always suspected about them.
You don't have to be particularly pro-French to find it cringeworthy when our buffoon of a Foreign Secretary references a war that ended three-quarters of a century ago to try and score political points. The rest of Europe have moved on from "the war" and "empire", it's about time people like Boris did the same. He comes across like some raddled old actress constantly showing people pictures of herself in her hey-day.
A joke about football? Everyone laughs heartily what a good bloke.
About one of the most catastrophic wars of our times? Utter utter moron.
To be honest I don't think they are far wrong. She is trying to pretend exiting the single market is her cunning plan whereas we all know that in reality we were never going to get a deal to stay in given our obsession with immigration. She's going to get sweet FA and pretend she was so macho by walking away first.
No, she's not pretending anything. She's simply implementing the result of the referendum. That means we're leaving the Single Market, of our own volition.
Le Monde doesn't seem to be able to get its head around this concept:
Une fois l’article 50 activé, en mars, son pays pourra être bouté hors de l’UE dans un délai de deux ans.
i.e "Once Article 50 has been triggered in March, [the UK] could be booted out of the EU within two years".
@paulwaugh: Does the Prime Minister have full confidence in Boris Johnson? No10 "Yes".
If insulting the French is wrong, I don't want to be right.
It's nice to see Remainers taking the French side and confirming everything we've always suspected about them.
You don't have to be particularly pro-French to find it cringeworthy when our buffoon of a Foreign Secretary references a war that ended three-quarters of a century ago to try and score political points. The rest of Europe have moved on from "the war" and "empire", it's about time people like Boris did the same. He comes across like some raddled old actress constantly showing people pictures of herself in her hey-day.
Are we no longer allowed to use historical analogies to make a point, however ham fisted? And anyway, he was actually referring to WW2 movies, which are more contemporary!
@paulwaugh: Does the Prime Minister have full confidence in Boris Johnson? No10 "Yes".
If insulting the French is wrong, I don't want to be right.
It's nice to see Remainers taking the French side and confirming everything we've always suspected about them.
You don't have to be particularly pro-French to find it cringeworthy when our buffoon of a Foreign Secretary references a war that ended three-quarters of a century ago to try and score political points. The rest of Europe have moved on from "the war" and "empire", it's about time people like Boris did the same. He comes across like some raddled old actress constantly showing people pictures of herself in her hey-day.
Are we no longer allowed to use historical analogies to make a point, however ham fisted? And anyway, he was actually referring to WW2 movies, which are more contemporary!
He makes Trump look diplomatic
There are many things you can say about Boris. This is not one of them!
@paulwaugh: Does the Prime Minister have full confidence in Boris Johnson? No10 "Yes".
If insulting the French is wrong, I don't want to be right.
It's nice to see Remainers taking the French side and confirming everything we've always suspected about them.
You don't have to be particularly pro-French to find it cringeworthy when our buffoon of a Foreign Secretary references a war that ended three-quarters of a century ago to try and score political points. The rest of Europe have moved on from "the war" and "empire", it's about time people like Boris did the same. He comes across like some raddled old actress constantly showing people pictures of herself in her hey-day.
A joke about football? Everyone laughs heartily what a good bloke.
About one of the most catastrophic wars of our times? Utter utter moron.
Not a fan of Dad's Army, Allo Allo?
It didn't matter if anyone found those programmes offensive. They were not explicitly part of the UK's foreign policy effort.
By the way, https://twitter.com/jamesdoleman is worth a follow today - he's live tweeting a court case of a punter, who took £100 @ 2500/1 on Rangers getting relegated, versus Coral.
I think he'll lose. He should have asked for a bet on Rangers not being in the top flight next season. I'd be interested to know if Corals paid out on Dundee being promoted as the beneficiaries of Rangers' demise.
Yes, I think he'll lose too. But it's been entertaining, especially Coral's then trading director stating: "2500/1 odds would not have been offered if there was a chance of the event happening."
What is the argument that Coral should not pay out?
If I bet 10 p at 2500 on Labour winning North Shropshire (Tory since 1835) and they win in 2020 I'd expect £250.
The argument is that they weren't relegated. They were liquidated and thus expelled from the league, and a new Rangers entered the league in the 3rd division.
It didn't help Coral that their own website (in a news article apparently written by a freelancer) referred to them being relegated... a very entertaining day in court!
"In early August 2016, the BBC announced that plans to remake the series had been scrapped due to the possibility of viewers complaining about Gestapo officer Herr Flick, despite regularly showing the original episodes on its channels.[17]"
@paulwaugh: Does the Prime Minister have full confidence in Boris Johnson? No10 "Yes".
If insulting the French is wrong, I don't want to be right.
It's nice to see Remainers taking the French side and confirming everything we've always suspected about them.
You don't have to be particularly pro-French to find it cringeworthy when our buffoon of a Foreign Secretary references a war that ended three-quarters of a century ago to try and score political points. The rest of Europe have moved on from "the war" and "empire", it's about time people like Boris did the same. He comes across like some raddled old actress constantly showing people pictures of herself in her hey-day.
Thinking that "that happened over 75 years ago" closes a discussion down is a pitiful indicator of intellectual impoverishment. Where you went to school, what did they teach in lieu of history?
@paulwaugh: Does the Prime Minister have full confidence in Boris Johnson? No10 "Yes".
If insulting the French is wrong, I don't want to be right.
It's nice to see Remainers taking the French side and confirming everything we've always suspected about them.
You don't have to be particularly pro-French to find it cringeworthy when our buffoon of a Foreign Secretary references a war that ended three-quarters of a century ago to try and score political points. The rest of Europe have moved on from "the war" and "empire", it's about time people like Boris did the same. He comes across like some raddled old actress constantly showing people pictures of herself in her hey-day.
A joke about football? Everyone laughs heartily what a good bloke.
About one of the most catastrophic wars of our times? Utter utter moron.
Not a fan of Dad's Army, Allo Allo?
It didn't matter if anyone found those programmes offensive. They were not explicitly part of the UK's foreign policy effort.
"In early August 2016, the BBC announced that plans to remake the series had been scrapped due to the possibility of viewers complaining about Gestapo officer Herr Flick, despite regularly showing the original episodes on its channels.[17]"
@paulwaugh: Does the Prime Minister have full confidence in Boris Johnson? No10 "Yes".
If insulting the French is wrong, I don't want to be right.
It's nice to see Remainers taking the French side and confirming everything we've always suspected about them.
You don't have to be particularly pro-French to find it cringeworthy when our buffoon of a Foreign Secretary references a war that ended three-quarters of a century ago to try and score political points. The rest of Europe have moved on from "the war" and "empire", it's about time people like Boris did the same. He comes across like some raddled old actress constantly showing people pictures of herself in her hey-day.
A joke about football? Everyone laughs heartily what a good bloke.
About one of the most catastrophic wars of our times? Utter utter moron.
Comments
I'll drop you an email about it tonight.
Regional bird accents now lost in the UK have been discovered on the other side of the world. Research, published in Ecography, examined the songs of yellowhammer birds which have suffered a severe population decline in Britain. It was therefore thought that some regional dialects of the species had died out. However, through a citizen science project in which the public captured and submitted recordings of singing yellowhammers on their smartphones, scientists found many of the dialects thriving in New Zealand.
Some 600 yellowhammers were introduced to New Zealand in the 1860s and 1870s and, because of their relatively short history, researchers had expected them to exhibit fewer regional dialects than those in Britain. In fact, they boasted almost twice as many, likely due to them retaining song structures from the UK
No10 "Yes".
Helps put the 1000 jobs in context I think.
http://www.lemonde.fr/idees/article/2017/01/18/un-brexit-dur-pour-les-anglais_5064693_3232.html
@Ed_Miliband: Boris Johnson proves once again he's not fit to be Foreign Secretary. Showing you can be supremely clever and yet immensely stupid.
Boris should have used some flan-based variant of the savaged by a dead sheep comment if he wanted to insult Hollande.
Margins are under pressure and it is much more difficult to make money than it was. Shareholders expect a return on their equity. These factors will drive how banks respond to the new regulatory landscape. Those who think that cities in the EU will get vast numbers of high paying jobs on a 1 to 1 basis from London are living in cloud cuckoo land. Banks will do just enough to carry on doing business in the EU.
Remember also that countries with banks with large balance sheets are vulnerable if things go wrong. That too will affect the post-Brexit reality.
Cos Boris was really comparing Brexit to the Bataan death march...
Smart or lucky ?
There will be those in the EU who genuinely don't understand why we want to LEAVE and there will be a larger number who do.
I came to accept the EU, though established with and for a long period operating under the best of intentions and ideals, had become a fundamentally illiberal construct. The desire to integrate and harmonise, while laudable in theory, was flawed in practice even within the original 12 let alone the post-1989 arrivals.
The Single Market served only to draw wealth into the richest regions of the EU so London, Bavaria, the Rhineland and a few other places prospered while other areas were systematically depopulated and impoverished. Given that people will always go to the money, making that process easy via Freedom of Movement led to a large-scale economic migration replicated on a much larger scale from outside the EU.
Yet I have no desire to live in a Singapore-style country with low wages, low taxes and a system where workers have little or no defence from exploitation. To be "Global Britain" cannot be simply about a race to the bottom in competitiveness and as an observation, how does an "outward-looking global economy" resolve that immigration conundrum where we welcome the rich to live and invest and tolerate the poor to clean the streets and make the coffee or tea ?
The first step, getting out the EU, is the easy bit. The next stage, defining the type of country we want to be, is the tough bit and needs much more national debate and thought than we have seen so far. Before rushing headlong into trade deals with the Anglosphere (who will no doubt be friendly) and places like Russia, China, Brazil and India who may be harder to deal with, we need to get these fundamentals resolved.
May yesterday glossed over the post-EU future and fell back on romanticised platitudes. Trying to define the kind of country, economy, society and politics Britain needs and wants for the 2020s and beyond is the big challenge not getting out of the EU.
Now there is a BIG hole in their budget - and it's going to hurt.
It's the perennial question of British history. There have been a number of different answers in the past. What our future answer should / could be is perhaps worthy of a thread header from you?
I would say that the storm of protest is coming from the same elite who lost Brexit and caused the election of Trump
Could be a long wait.
Long text message/email explanations always make me think people are trying to spin something, and same goes for posts/blogs
No matter the thrill doing it or denied to the other side, it's gone.
The reality is that there is plenty in the single market we want and now we will have to negotiate gaining stuff rather than giving stuff up which is much harder.
I said I wanted both sides to lose
Shot foxes don't get to steal your chickens any more.
Concern over immigration (33%) comes second to "UK decisions should be made in UK" (49%) and ahead of concern over future direction of EU (13%). Ashcroft can be a twit and polls can be wrong, but not that wrong.
http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.php?t=4358431
If Rangers were relegated, why shouldn't he win?
If I bet 10 p at 2500 on Labour winning North Shropshire (Tory since 1835) and they win in 2020 I'd expect £250.
http://aboutasfarasdelgados.blogspot.co.uk/2014/08/you-dont-have-to-be-hypocritical-coward.html
"If Boris is annoying the cheese eating surrender collaborating monkeys then he must be doing something right."
I agree. You can't go wrong by insulting the Frogs. And it has the added bonus of stirring up the posher bien pensants.
You don't have to be particularly pro-French to find it cringeworthy when our buffoon of a Foreign Secretary references a war that ended three-quarters of a century ago to try and score political points. The rest of Europe have moved on from "the war" and "empire", it's about time people like Boris did the same. He comes across like some raddled old actress constantly showing people pictures of herself in her hey-day.
I'm really struggling to understand how surrendering the single market before the negotiations have even got started is shooting the EU's fox.
About one of the most catastrophic wars of our times? Utter utter moron.
So what? I thought. What a sensitive creature he must be.
Probably a harbinger of the 'snowflake' generation, I suppose.
Le Monde doesn't seem to be able to get its head around this concept:
Une fois l’article 50 activé, en mars, son pays pourra être bouté hors de l’UE dans un délai de deux ans.
i.e "Once Article 50 has been triggered in March, [the UK] could be booted out of the EU within two years".
Well, quite. That's kinda the idea.
It didn't help Coral that their own website (in a news article apparently written by a freelancer) referred to them being relegated... a very entertaining day in court!
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/'Allo_'Allo!#Abandoned_remake
"In early August 2016, the BBC announced that plans to remake the series had been scrapped due to the possibility of viewers complaining about Gestapo officer Herr Flick, despite regularly showing the original episodes on its channels.[17]"