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politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Donald Trump, Michael Gove and Jeremy Hunt feature in the big

SystemSystem Posts: 11,700
edited January 2017 in General

imagepoliticalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Donald Trump, Michael Gove and Jeremy Hunt feature in the big stories overnight

.@michaelgove invites @realDonaldTrump to say UK will be front of the queue for a trade deal with US. PEOTUS declines pic.twitter.com/G5mUTCSNA2

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    TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 114,563
    edited January 2017
    Putting faith in the POETUS is courageous, as Sir Humphrey would put it.
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    FloaterFloater Posts: 14,195
    Trump's comments about NATO could be huge, they could be massive.
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    Huzzah for Jeremy Hunt, we should praise a successful businessman and not condemn him.

    With such business nous, Hunt should put the NHS on a commercial footing.
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    Good luck to Hunt. He built a business and is reaping the reward. Will he get Entrepreneur's relief?
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    Putting faith in the POETUS is courageous, as Sir Humphrey would put it.

    What benefit does the US get from a trade deal that is beneficial to the UK?

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    Do you get the not so subtle 80s reference?

    https://twitter.com/Sunil_P2/status/820765506370150400
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    Floater said:

    Trump's comments about NATO could be huge, they could be massive.

    NATO was one of the key things that ensured peace in Europe and helped bring down communism, no wonder Putin wants to see it destroyed, and his popinjay in Washington agrees.
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    Putting faith in the POETUS is courageous, as Sir Humphrey would put it.

    He is a maverick and I would accept his words with a great deal of scepticism
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    Putting faith in the POETUS is courageous, as Sir Humphrey would put it.

    PEOTUS
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    williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 48,130
    Floater said:

    Trump's comments about NATO could be huge, they could be massive.

    The first flashpoint could be in an unexpected place - Kosovo. Russia has always bitterly resented the way it was sidelined over that intervention.
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    Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453

    PEOTUS

    PEEOTUS (snigger)
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    Floater said:

    Trump's comments about NATO could be huge, they could be massive.

    NATO was one of the key things that ensured peace in Europe and helped bring down communism, no wonder Putin wants to see it destroyed, and his popinjay in Washington agrees.

    Your party is going to prostrate itself at his feet. Please don't let him near the Queen.

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    Scott_P said:

    PEOTUS

    PEEOTUS (snigger)
    See - you can be funny
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    FloaterFloater Posts: 14,195

    Floater said:

    Trump's comments about NATO could be huge, they could be massive.

    NATO was one of the key things that ensured peace in Europe and helped bring down communism, no wonder Putin wants to see it destroyed, and his popinjay in Washington agrees.
    I know what he has said about allies pulling their weight.

    I have sympathies with that view.

    But the comments tonight do concern me.
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    Floater said:

    Trump's comments about NATO could be huge, they could be massive.

    NATO was one of the key things that ensured peace in Europe and helped bring down communism, no wonder Putin wants to see it destroyed, and his popinjay in Washington agrees.

    Your party is going to prostrate itself at his feet. Please don't let him near the Queen.

    It is already agreed for the late Spring at Windsor I believe
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    Floater said:

    Trump's comments about NATO could be huge, they could be massive.

    NATO was one of the key things that ensured peace in Europe and helped bring down communism, no wonder Putin wants to see it destroyed, and his popinjay in Washington agrees.

    Your party is going to prostrate itself at his feet. Please don't let him near the Queen.

    Some of my party.

    This ain't going to be Reagan or Thatcher, or FDR and Churchill, though you could argue the lend lease deal was the worst trade deal we've signed in our history, we finally paid it off 60 years after WWII ended.
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    tlg86tlg86 Posts: 25,205
    On Russia, I think you can guarantee that Russia won't rock the boat until after July 2018.
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    Scott_P said:

    PEOTUS

    PEEOTUS (snigger)
    Golden Showers are very pretty:
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oncidium#/media/File:Oncidium_excavatum_RTBG.jpg
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    FloaterFloater Posts: 14,195
    tlg86 said:

    On Russia, I think you can guarantee that Russia won't rock the boat until after July 2018.

    I seem to remember a certain Olympics.......
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    Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 55,534


    What benefit does the US get from a trade deal that is beneficial to the UK?



    Trade deals are done because they are win-win. If they're not win-win, they won't be done.

    The UK perhaps has up to a quarter of the EU's economy in services, so it'd be done for the same reasons TTIP was done: to boost both the UK and US economies in services trade.

    I imagine it'd be focused on non-tariff barriers, ease of visas for business travel, and temporary working, and removing customs duties.
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    Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 55,534

    Putting faith in the POETUS is courageous, as Sir Humphrey would put it.

    I don't. But I think Congress are more serious.
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    Floater said:

    Trump's comments about NATO could be huge, they could be massive.

    NATO was one of the key things that ensured peace in Europe and helped bring down communism, no wonder Putin wants to see it destroyed, and his popinjay in Washington agrees.

    Your party is going to prostrate itself at his feet. Please don't let him near the Queen.

    It is already agreed for the late Spring at Windsor I believe

    Poor, poor woman.

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    I said a few days ago he will put tariffs on BMW's built in their new Mexico plant. He has confirmed that direct to Bild in his interview. Taxing times !!
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    Floater said:

    Floater said:

    Trump's comments about NATO could be huge, they could be massive.

    NATO was one of the key things that ensured peace in Europe and helped bring down communism, no wonder Putin wants to see it destroyed, and his popinjay in Washington agrees.
    I know what he has said about allies pulling their weight.

    I have sympathies with that view.

    But the comments tonight do concern me.
    The Israelis and MI6 have both been advised not to share everything with Trump because they worry he'll share it with the Russians, and the Russians will share it with Iran.
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    Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    Floater said:
    @Kasparov63: I'm still waiting for Trump to say something about global affairs that hasn't literally been said first by the Kremlin. twitter.com/business/statu…
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    FloaterFloater Posts: 14,195

    I said a few days ago he will put tariffs on BMW's built in their new Mexico plant. He has confirmed that direct to Bild in his interview. Taxing times !!

    Very blunt about her (Merkel) maniac open door policy.

    But he is not wrong there.
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    Floater said:

    Trump's comments about NATO could be huge, they could be massive.

    NATO was one of the key things that ensured peace in Europe and helped bring down communism, no wonder Putin wants to see it destroyed, and his popinjay in Washington agrees.

    Your party is going to prostrate itself at his feet. Please don't let him near the Queen.

    Some of my party.

    This ain't going to be Reagan or Thatcher, or FDR and Churchill, though you could argue the lend lease deal was the worst trade deal we've signed in our history, we finally paid it off 60 years after WWII ended.

    It certainly won't be Ronnie and Maggie. More likely Gordon chasing Barack through the UN kitchens.

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    FloaterFloater Posts: 14,195

    Floater said:

    Floater said:

    Trump's comments about NATO could be huge, they could be massive.

    NATO was one of the key things that ensured peace in Europe and helped bring down communism, no wonder Putin wants to see it destroyed, and his popinjay in Washington agrees.
    I know what he has said about allies pulling their weight.

    I have sympathies with that view.

    But the comments tonight do concern me.
    The Israelis and MI6 have both been advised not to share everything with Trump because they worry he'll share it with the Russians, and the Russians will share it with Iran.
    Yet he is far more pro Israel than Obama it seems.

    It's going to be a hell of a ride.

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    mattmatt Posts: 3,789

    I said a few days ago he will put tariffs on BMW's built in their new Mexico plant. He has confirmed that direct to Bild in his interview. Taxing times !!

    What's the legal basis for this?
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    I see my tip of 1/25 has moved out to 1/50.

    I still think that's value.
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    FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,291
    edited January 2017
    Not a fan of Hunt, but with stories like this no wonder we don't get more successful folk in politics.

    He built a business 20 years ago, 10 years ago he gave up all day to day input into it and his investment is in a blind trust i.e. he did everything right, which is fairly uncommon for politicians.

    Despite all of that, it now it is being used as a stick to beat him with. His current job (mis)managing the NHS and criticism of it has absolutely nothing to do with this.
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    Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 60,358
    edited January 2017
    matt said:

    I said a few days ago he will put tariffs on BMW's built in their new Mexico plant. He has confirmed that direct to Bild in his interview. Taxing times !!

    What's the legal basis for this?
    No idea but he has told Bilt they have to locate to the US or face 35% tariff on BMW's built in Mexico
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    Floater said:

    Floater said:

    Floater said:

    Trump's comments about NATO could be huge, they could be massive.

    NATO was one of the key things that ensured peace in Europe and helped bring down communism, no wonder Putin wants to see it destroyed, and his popinjay in Washington agrees.
    I know what he has said about allies pulling their weight.

    I have sympathies with that view.

    But the comments tonight do concern me.
    The Israelis and MI6 have both been advised not to share everything with Trump because they worry he'll share it with the Russians, and the Russians will share it with Iran.
    Yet he is far more pro Israel than Obama it seems.

    It's going to be a hell of a ride.

    Trump said what had to be said about Israel to get the evangelical vote. There is little evidence to suggest a long-standing, convinced commitment to its future.
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    BarnesianBarnesian Posts: 7,997
    edited January 2017

    Putting faith in the POETUS is courageous, as Sir Humphrey would put it.

    What benefit does the US get from a trade deal that is beneficial to the UK?

    What benefit does the UK get from a trade deal with the US?

    A lowering of UK food standards to US levels, an opening of UK public services to US multinationals using ISDS challenges. A continued restriction of any UK opportunities at the US state level eg Californian motor regulations. A US/UK TTIP would be a disaster.
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    Floater said:

    Trump's comments about NATO could be huge, they could be massive.

    NATO was one of the key things that ensured peace in Europe and helped bring down communism, no wonder Putin wants to see it destroyed, and his popinjay in Washington agrees.

    Your party is going to prostrate itself at his feet. Please don't let him near the Queen.

    Some of my party.

    This ain't going to be Reagan or Thatcher, or FDR and Churchill, though you could argue the lend lease deal was the worst trade deal we've signed in our history, we finally paid it off 60 years after WWII ended.

    It certainly won't be Ronnie and Maggie. More likely Gordon chasing Barack through the UN kitchens.

    Trump chasing Tezza in Benny Hill style?
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    mattmatt Posts: 3,789
    edited January 2017

    matt said:

    I said a few days ago he will put tariffs on BMW's built in their new Mexico plant. He has confirmed that direct to Bild in his interview. Taxing times !!

    What's the legal basis for this?
    No idea but he has told Bilt they have to locate to the US or face 35% tariff on BMW's built in Mexico
    Without a legal basis, he's no more than a tyrant. Yet some people, even here, here seem to think this is a good thing. One can witter on about shaking things up and the like but without the rule of law to protect us (both individuals and legal persons) we are at the whim of potentates and tyrants. I genuinely fail to understand why they think this good.
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    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 117,127
    Aslef leader Tosh McDonald 'I hated Thatcher so much that I used to set my alarm an hour earlier, just so I could hate her for am extra hour! '
    https://www.google.co.uk/amp/www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4122098/amp/Union-boss-Southern-Rail-strikes-pledges-bring-Theresa-tells-used-hour-early-hate-Thatcher-longer.html?client=ms-android-orange-gb
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    Crafty idea of the Donald's to say he lift sanctions on Russia in return for a deal to reduce nuclear weapons. Whoever would have thought that this would deliver Putin 100% of what he wants?
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    viewcodeviewcode Posts: 18,950
    FPT


    How strongly allied is Serbia to Russia ?

    The CSTO (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Collective_Security_Treaty_Organization ) is a Russian NATO analogy: a "Dark Nato" if you will. Serbia is an observer in it.

    Serbia was attacked by the Austro-Hungarian Empire during WW1 and by the Germans during WWII. The former Yugoslavian countries that left it behind as Yugoslavia broke up went to the EU.

    So for the past century Serbia has been at war with Germany or its avatars several times, and allied with Russia or its equivalents.

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    TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 114,563
    edited January 2017
    One of the reasons I'm a conservative is that I passionately believe in free trade, free trade leads to freer people, countries that send goods and services across borders are most unlikely to send soldiers across those borders.

    I have an expectation that Donald Trump will be the worst thing to have happened to free trade in many decades.
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    PClippPClipp Posts: 2,138
    Barnesian said:

    Putting faith in the POETUS is courageous, as Sir Humphrey would put it.

    What benefit does the US get from a trade deal that is beneficial to the UK?
    What benefit does the UK get from a trade deal with the US?
    A lowering of UK food standards to US levels, an opening of UK public services to US multinationals using ISDS challenges. A continued restriction of any UK opportunities at the US state level eg Californian motor regulations. A US/UK TTIP would be a disaster.
    Nobody in his right mind would want that, Mr Barnesian. Do you think Mrs May will go for it?
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    viewcode said:

    FPT


    How strongly allied is Serbia to Russia ?

    The CSTO (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Collective_Security_Treaty_Organization ) is a Russian NATO analogy: a "Dark Nato" if you will. Serbia is an observer in it.

    Serbia was attacked by the Austro-Hungarian Empire during WW1 and by the Germans during WWII. The former Yugoslavian countries that left it behind as Yugoslavia broke up went to the EU.

    So for the past century Serbia has been at war with Germany or its avatars several times, and allied with Russia or its equivalents.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Accession_of_Serbia_to_the_European_Union



    Serbia officially applied for European Union membership on 22 December 2009,[6] and the European Commission recommended making it an official candidate on 12 October 2011. After the vote of the 27 EU foreign ministers on 28 February 2012, where with 26 votes for and 1 vote against, a candidate status recommendation was issued, and Serbia received full candidate status on 1 March. On 28 June 2013 the European Council endorsed the Council of Ministers conclusions and recommendations to open accession negotiations with Serbia.[7][8] In December 2013 the Council of the European Union approved opening negotiations on Serbia's accession in January 2014,[9] and the first Intergovernmental Conference was held on 21 January at the European Council in Brussels.[10]
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    matt said:

    matt said:

    I said a few days ago he will put tariffs on BMW's built in their new Mexico plant. He has confirmed that direct to Bild in his interview. Taxing times !!

    What's the legal basis for this?
    No idea but he has told Bilt they have to locate to the US or face 35% tariff on BMW's built in Mexico
    Without a legal basis, he's no more than a tyrant. Yet some people, even here, here seem to think this is a good thing. One can witter on about shaking things up and the like but without the rule of law to protect us (both individuals and legal persons) we are at the whim of potentates and tyrants. I genuinely fail to understand why they think this good.
    I do not think it is good - indeed his protectionist policies are wrong but at least I am glad we seem to be on the same side
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    williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 48,130

    viewcode said:

    FPT


    How strongly allied is Serbia to Russia ?

    The CSTO (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Collective_Security_Treaty_Organization ) is a Russian NATO analogy: a "Dark Nato" if you will. Serbia is an observer in it.

    Serbia was attacked by the Austro-Hungarian Empire during WW1 and by the Germans during WWII. The former Yugoslavian countries that left it behind as Yugoslavia broke up went to the EU.

    So for the past century Serbia has been at war with Germany or its avatars several times, and allied with Russia or its equivalents.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Accession_of_Serbia_to_the_European_Union
    http://www.balkaninsight.com/en/article/eu-opposes-to-serbia-s-military-drills-with-russia-08-18-2015-1
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    viewcodeviewcode Posts: 18,950

    viewcode said:

    FPT


    How strongly allied is Serbia to Russia ?

    The CSTO (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Collective_Security_Treaty_Organization ) is a Russian NATO analogy: a "Dark Nato" if you will. Serbia is an observer in it.

    Serbia was attacked by the Austro-Hungarian Empire during WW1 and by the Germans during WWII. The former Yugoslavian countries that left it behind as Yugoslavia broke up went to the EU.

    So for the past century Serbia has been at war with Germany or its avatars several times, and allied with Russia or its equivalents.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Accession_of_Serbia_to_the_European_Union



    Serbia officially applied for European Union membership on 22 December 2009,[6] and the European Commission recommended making it an official candidate on 12 October 2011. After the vote of the 27 EU foreign ministers on 28 February 2012, where with 26 votes for and 1 vote against, a candidate status recommendation was issued, and Serbia received full candidate status on 1 March. On 28 June 2013 the European Council endorsed the Council of Ministers conclusions and recommendations to open accession negotiations with Serbia.[7][8] In December 2013 the Council of the European Union approved opening negotiations on Serbia's accession in January 2014,[9] and the first Intergovernmental Conference was held on 21 January at the European Council in Brussels.[10]
    I know, Sunil. But I think we've seen the high water mark of the West. We have a proRussian POTUS succeeding a Pacific-Rim orientated POTUS, UK is leaving EU, EU banged up against reality when it talked to Ukraine. The West is splitting up, we're climbing up our own arse...I don't see Serbia as a slam-dunk
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    I can believe it. Can't imagine what she and Trump have in common

    https://twitter.com/PaulineHansonOz/status/820774071612805120
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    PClipp said:

    Barnesian said:

    Putting faith in the POETUS is courageous, as Sir Humphrey would put it.

    What benefit does the US get from a trade deal that is beneficial to the UK?
    What benefit does the UK get from a trade deal with the US?
    A lowering of UK food standards to US levels, an opening of UK public services to US multinationals using ISDS challenges. A continued restriction of any UK opportunities at the US state level eg Californian motor regulations. A US/UK TTIP would be a disaster.
    Nobody in his right mind would want that, Mr Barnesian. Do you think Mrs May will go for it?

    The Americans will tell us what deal they're prepared to give us. We'll decide whether or not we will take it. They will be in charge, for a number of very obvious reasons.

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    viewcodeviewcode Posts: 18,950

    matt said:

    matt said:

    I said a few days ago he will put tariffs on BMW's built in their new Mexico plant. He has confirmed that direct to Bild in his interview. Taxing times !!

    What's the legal basis for this?
    No idea but he has told Bilt they have to locate to the US or face 35% tariff on BMW's built in Mexico
    Without a legal basis, he's no more than a tyrant. Yet some people, even here, here seem to think this is a good thing. One can witter on about shaking things up and the like but without the rule of law to protect us (both individuals and legal persons) we are at the whim of potentates and tyrants. I genuinely fail to understand why they think this good.
    I do not think it is good - indeed his protectionist policies are wrong but at least I am glad we seem to be on the same side
    I'm not sure he's on our side: I don't think Trump has friends per se. If it's in his interests to hurt us, he will do so.
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    viewcode said:

    FPT


    How strongly allied is Serbia to Russia ?

    The CSTO (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Collective_Security_Treaty_Organization ) is a Russian NATO analogy: a "Dark Nato" if you will. Serbia is an observer in it.

    Serbia was attacked by the Austro-Hungarian Empire during WW1 and by the Germans during WWII. The former Yugoslavian countries that left it behind as Yugoslavia broke up went to the EU.

    So for the past century Serbia has been at war with Germany or its avatars several times, and allied with Russia or its equivalents.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Accession_of_Serbia_to_the_European_Union
    http://www.balkaninsight.com/en/article/eu-opposes-to-serbia-s-military-drills-with-russia-08-18-2015-1
    Montenegro and Serbia have set a goal to finish accession talks by 2019.[64]
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Enlargement_of_the_European_Union
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    FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,291
    edited January 2017

    I can believe it. Can't imagine what she and Trump have in common

    https://twitter.com/PaulineHansonOz/status/820774071612805120

    When somebody says gifted these days, I normally think of a Christmas present that you don't want and thus "gifted" it to somebody else.
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    I note with interest that there's a Playboy cover behind Michael Gove.

    Speaks volumes
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    DromedaryDromedary Posts: 1,194
    Hollande's foreign minister Jean-Marc Ayrault warns Donald Trump not to recognise occupied Jerusalem as capital of Israel. It will be interesting to see how Marine Le Pen responds.

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    Dromedary said:

    Hollande's foreign minister Jean-Marc Ayrault warns Donald Trump not to recognise occupied Jerusalem as capital of Israel. It will be interesting to see how Marine Le Pen responds.

    Isn't West Jerusalem unoccupied? West of the Green Line?
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    MikeKMikeK Posts: 9,053
    Dromedary said:

    Hollande's foreign minister Jean-Marc Ayrault warns Donald Trump not to recognise occupied Jerusalem as capital of Israel. It will be interesting to see how Marine Le Pen responds.

    Hollande's foreign minister Jean-Marc Ayrault can get stuffed.
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    isamisam Posts: 40,987
    The roast of Donald Trump onc5
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    Fantastic game of the grid-irons at the moment.
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    Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 13,028

    I can believe it. Can't imagine what she and Trump have in common

    https://twitter.com/PaulineHansonOz/status/820774071612805120

    One Nation is polling very well (for them) for the upcoming Western Australia state elections. Could be the start of something...

    William Hill have Labor at 1.33 to win the WA election which looks suspiciously like free money.
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    nunununu Posts: 6,024

    Dromedary said:

    Hollande's foreign minister Jean-Marc Ayrault warns Donald Trump not to recognise occupied Jerusalem as capital of Israel. It will be interesting to see how Marine Le Pen responds.

    Isn't West Jerusalem unoccupied? West of the Green Line?
    Nothing is unoccupied.
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    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 54,060
    SeanT said:

    The problem for all Trump-haters and Trump-sceptics (and I'm definitely one of the latter) is that lots of what he says is completely true, and perceptive, and needed saying in these blunt terms. Merkel's decision to let in 1m migrants/refugees WAS a catastrophic error, and led directly to Brexit.

    But is there any world politician other than Trump who will come out and say that?
    It was a catastrophic error. Although, ironically, it seems to have caused bigger waves outside Germany than in it.

    The thing that scares me most about Donald Trump is that he is reflexively anti-free trade. In the late 1920s, the Smoot Hawey Act was passed to protect US industries from foreign competition. Too many jobs were lost due to cheap imports. Other nations reacted by increasing their own tariffs, world trade collapsed, and The Great Depression ensued.

    Donald Trump's Border Tax is Smoot Hawey, only worse. It is equivalent to - depending on how you count it - something between a 5 and 20% tax on all imports. And it applies to all, free trade agreement or not.

    What is dumb - of course - is that other countries will react by imposing their own Border Profit Tax. And the biggest losers, by a country mile, from this would be US firms. Imagine Apple paying the UK government 20% of the value of each iPhone sold in the UK to compensate it for the taxes lost by the iPhone not being built in the UK!

    But, of course, such a move - if replicated everywhere - would dramatically increase the costs of doing business across borders. We in the UK are a nation defined by trade. And we are a nation with high value add services, which would be hit the most.

    I hope Congress stands up and says "this is stupid". But, can they? Trump's tax cuts are predicated on bringing in hundreds of billions by taxing Glaxo for importing drugs into the US, or ARM for microprocessor licenses.

    I hope I'm wrong. But every day makes me more scared that I'm right. And I fear that we in the UK will be among the most negatively impacted.
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    nunununu Posts: 6,024
    nunu said:

    Dromedary said:

    Hollande's foreign minister Jean-Marc Ayrault warns Donald Trump not to recognise occupied Jerusalem as capital of Israel. It will be interesting to see how Marine Le Pen responds.

    Isn't West Jerusalem unoccupied? West of the Green Line?
    Nothing is unoccupied, thousands of settlements everywhere.
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    williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 48,130
    rcs1000 said:

    I hope I'm wrong. But every day makes me more scared that I'm right. And I fear that we in the UK will be among the most negatively impacted.

    If you're right, do you still think Brexit was the correct decision?

    Despite all you've said about how we weren't comfortable with the political aspect, our position in the treaties is secure and surely this is not a sensible time to be pulling out.
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    nunu said:

    Dromedary said:

    Hollande's foreign minister Jean-Marc Ayrault warns Donald Trump not to recognise occupied Jerusalem as capital of Israel. It will be interesting to see how Marine Le Pen responds.

    Isn't West Jerusalem unoccupied? West of the Green Line?
    Nothing is unoccupied.
    West Jerusalem was part of Israel before 1967.
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    Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    What a game!
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    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 54,060

    rcs1000 said:

    I hope I'm wrong. But every day makes me more scared that I'm right. And I fear that we in the UK will be among the most negatively impacted.

    If you're right, do you still think Brexit was the correct decision?

    Despite all you've said about how we weren't comfortable with the political aspect, our position in the treaties is secure and surely this is not a sensible time to be pulling out.
    If the US puts in place the Border Tax, and we pursue Hard Brexit, we are going to be in seven seas of shit economically.

    I am genuinely terrified about the UK economic outlook, in a way I simply haven't been for a long time.
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    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,986
    rcs1000 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    I hope I'm wrong. But every day makes me more scared that I'm right. And I fear that we in the UK will be among the most negatively impacted.

    If you're right, do you still think Brexit was the correct decision?

    Despite all you've said about how we weren't comfortable with the political aspect, our position in the treaties is secure and surely this is not a sensible time to be pulling out.
    If the US puts in place the Border Tax, and we pursue Hard Brexit, we are going to be in seven seas of shit economically.

    I am genuinely terrified about the UK economic outlook, in a way I simply haven't been for a long time.
    Do I need to sell my Glaxo shares :o ?
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    CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 59,787

    Floater said:

    Trump's comments about NATO could be huge, they could be massive.

    NATO was one of the key things that ensured peace in Europe and helped bring down communism, no wonder Putin wants to see it destroyed, and his popinjay in Washington agrees.

    Your party is going to prostrate itself at his feet. Please don't let him near the Queen.

    It is already agreed for the late Spring at Windsor I believe

    Poor, poor woman.

    Water off a duck's back - she's put up with (much) worse....the Ceaucescus, anyone?
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    Pulpstar said:

    rcs1000 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    I hope I'm wrong. But every day makes me more scared that I'm right. And I fear that we in the UK will be among the most negatively impacted.

    If you're right, do you still think Brexit was the correct decision?

    Despite all you've said about how we weren't comfortable with the political aspect, our position in the treaties is secure and surely this is not a sensible time to be pulling out.
    If the US puts in place the Border Tax, and we pursue Hard Brexit, we are going to be in seven seas of shit economically.

    I am genuinely terrified about the UK economic outlook, in a way I simply haven't been for a long time.
    Do I need to sell my Glaxo shares :o ?
    No, just keep taking the tablets.
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    rkrkrkrkrkrk Posts: 7,914
    rcs1000 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    I hope I'm wrong. But every day makes me more scared that I'm right. And I fear that we in the UK will be among the most negatively impacted.

    If you're right, do you still think Brexit was the correct decision?

    Despite all you've said about how we weren't comfortable with the political aspect, our position in the treaties is secure and surely this is not a sensible time to be pulling out.
    If the US puts in place the Border Tax, and we pursue Hard Brexit, we are going to be in seven seas of shit economically.

    I am genuinely terrified about the UK economic outlook, in a way I simply haven't been for a long time.
    I haven't seen anyone on this board say they think they made the wrong call on Brexit yet.
    If ever there was proof needed that arguments don't change people's minds...

    Assuming you voted leave - you seem close to being the first?
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    old_labourold_labour Posts: 3,238
    I wonder if the Queen will be sent to the Tower this year.
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    old_labourold_labour Posts: 3,238
    The Trump Tower, I mean.
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    RobDRobD Posts: 58,989

    I wonder if the Queen will be sent to the Tower this year.

    I think she's done with long foreign trips.
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    surbitonsurbiton Posts: 13,549
    edited January 2017
    surbiton said:

    weejonnie said:

    Alistair said:

    John_M said:

    surbiton said:

    glw said:

    John_M said:

    Based on events since last June, I can only conclude that the Brexit vote has unhinged some of our academics, presumably because they feel it threatens their funding.

    I genuinely think it has had that effect on some people, and Trump's victory has had a similar effect in America. There are people I used to follow on Twitter who are serious academics who had started posting quite barmy conspiracy nonsense, I stopped listening.

    It seems to me that some people are used to people like them always "winning", no matter what party actually won the election it was a party that coveted their support and was filled with people like them. Brexit and Trump are a victory for people who have been politically excluded for a long time, and our "betters" are not taking that very well.

    Trump won more votes than Hillary among the wealthiest in the US; while she beat him among the poorest.

    Leave won because of huge support for it among pensioners - who have seen their incomes rise over 13% in the last decade, while those of working age have seen theirs fall.

    The pensioners today are one of the most selfish people in history. From birth, they have had privileges no other generation had until then. They were the first beneficiaries of the Welfare State.

    The triple lock was no more than a bribe.
    Young people should try voting.
    The pensioners parents also voted, but they chose to vote for things that benefitted the next generation.
    Well someone hasn't read the propaganda leaflet given to everybody at the time. Back then we didn't have mass communication available to the masses. And most people voted for a Common Market, not a Federal Europe.
    FPT

    Ok. Can we have it now ? The Common Market was a free trade area plus freedom of movement.
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    surbitonsurbiton Posts: 13,549
    rcs1000 said:

    SeanT said:

    The problem for all Trump-haters and Trump-sceptics (and I'm definitely one of the latter) is that lots of what he says is completely true, and perceptive, and needed saying in these blunt terms. Merkel's decision to let in 1m migrants/refugees WAS a catastrophic error, and led directly to Brexit.

    But is there any world politician other than Trump who will come out and say that?
    It was a catastrophic error. Although, ironically, it seems to have caused bigger waves outside Germany than in it.

    The thing that scares me most about Donald Trump is that he is reflexively anti-free trade. In the late 1920s, the Smoot Hawey Act was passed to protect US industries from foreign competition. Too many jobs were lost due to cheap imports. Other nations reacted by increasing their own tariffs, world trade collapsed, and The Great Depression ensued.

    Donald Trump's Border Tax is Smoot Hawey, only worse. It is equivalent to - depending on how you count it - something between a 5 and 20% tax on all imports. And it applies to all, free trade agreement or not.

    What is dumb - of course - is that other countries will react by imposing their own Border Profit Tax. And the biggest losers, by a country mile, from this would be US firms. Imagine Apple paying the UK government 20% of the value of each iPhone sold in the UK to compensate it for the taxes lost by the iPhone not being built in the UK!

    But, of course, such a move - if replicated everywhere - would dramatically increase the costs of doing business across borders. We in the UK are a nation defined by trade. And we are a nation with high value add services, which would be hit the most.

    I hope Congress stands up and says "this is stupid". But, can they? Trump's tax cuts are predicated on bringing in hundreds of billions by taxing Glaxo for importing drugs into the US, or ARM for microprocessor licenses.

    I hope I'm wrong. But every day makes me more scared that I'm right. And I fear that we in the UK will be among the most negatively impacted.
    The US electoral system has elected a complete moron. Ironically, the very people who elected him will also suffer.
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    SandpitSandpit Posts: 49,941
    Morning. Trump's latest press conference - with added pee jokes. Whole golden streams of pee jokes.
    https://youtube.com/watch?v=2V8TO6y0IR4
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    surbitonsurbiton Posts: 13,549
    Floater said:
    An absolute maniac. This guy is a nut case. He needs help.
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    nielhnielh Posts: 1,307

    matt said:

    matt said:

    I said a few days ago he will put tariffs on BMW's built in their new Mexico plant. He has confirmed that direct to Bild in his interview. Taxing times !!

    What's the legal basis for this?
    No idea but he has told Bilt they have to locate to the US or face 35% tariff on BMW's built in Mexico
    Without a legal basis, he's no more than a tyrant. Yet some people, even here, here seem to think this is a good thing. One can witter on about shaking things up and the like but without the rule of law to protect us (both individuals and legal persons) we are at the whim of potentates and tyrants. I genuinely fail to understand why they think this good.
    I do not think it is good - indeed his protectionist policies are wrong but at least I am glad we seem to be on the same side
    Be careful about taking anything at face value
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    Ally_BAlly_B Posts: 185
    As several have suggested overnight the new POTUS is a "game changer". No longer on the cards for Brexiteers is the prospect of a balanced/beneficial free trade deal with the USA. He says the US has to address its trade deficit with the rest of the world, particularly with China and the emphasis for his administration should be smart trade, rather than free trade.

    Well that's alright then, smart trade arrangements for the US and dumb trade arrangements for everyone else. All this coming out at the same time as we trigger Article 50 to leave the EU. A "perfect storm" for our negotiating team. There is no need for the European side to offer us anything other than a "hard" Norway/Swiss deal because they know we are not going to get better anywhere else as trade barriers across the world start to go up.

    Is there a betting market on Parliament approving the negotiated Brexit deal? I suspect we might find invoking Article 50 turns out to be the equivalent of walking through a revolving rather than exit door.
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    nielhnielh Posts: 1,307
    rcs1000 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    I hope I'm wrong. But every day makes me more scared that I'm right. And I fear that we in the UK will be among the most negatively impacted.

    If you're right, do you still think Brexit was the correct decision?

    Despite all you've said about how we weren't comfortable with the political aspect, our position in the treaties is secure and surely this is not a sensible time to be pulling out.
    If the US puts in place the Border Tax, and we pursue Hard Brexit, we are going to be in seven seas of shit economically.

    I am genuinely terrified about the UK economic outlook, in a way I simply haven't been for a long time.
    Interesting comments. We are going to pursue hard brexit though, there is no alternative as we have established over the last few days.
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    Ally_BAlly_B Posts: 185
    nielh said:

    rcs1000 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    I hope I'm wrong. But every day makes me more scared that I'm right. And I fear that we in the UK will be among the most negatively impacted.

    If you're right, do you still think Brexit was the correct decision?

    Despite all you've said about how we weren't comfortable with the political aspect, our position in the treaties is secure and surely this is not a sensible time to be pulling out.
    If the US puts in place the Border Tax, and we pursue Hard Brexit, we are going to be in seven seas of shit economically.

    I am genuinely terrified about the UK economic outlook, in a way I simply haven't been for a long time.
    Interesting comments. We are going to pursue hard brexit though, there is no alternative as we have established over the last few days.
    Fortunately for the Nation "we" are not those in power. There is always an alternative; it's just a different section of the population that will be upset if it is implemented.
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    RogerRoger Posts: 18,894
    rcs1000 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    I hope I'm wrong. But every day makes me more scared that I'm right. And I fear that we in the UK will be among the most negatively impacted.

    If you're right, do you still think Brexit was the correct decision?

    Despite all you've said about how we weren't comfortable with the political aspect, our position in the treaties is secure and surely this is not a sensible time to be pulling out.
    If the US puts in place the Border Tax, and we pursue Hard Brexit, we are going to be in seven seas of shit economically.

    I am genuinely terrified about the UK economic outlook, in a way I simply haven't been for a long time.
    If Robert's terrified we all shuld be. As Bette Davis (nearly) said 'fasten your seatbelts. We're for a bumpy ride'
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    nielhnielh Posts: 1,307
    Ally_B said:

    nielh said:

    rcs1000 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    I hope I'm wrong. But every day makes me more scared that I'm right. And I fear that we in the UK will be among the most negatively impacted.

    If you're right, do you still think Brexit was the correct decision?

    Despite all you've said about how we weren't comfortable with the political aspect, our position in the treaties is secure and surely this is not a sensible time to be pulling out.
    If the US puts in place the Border Tax, and we pursue Hard Brexit, we are going to be in seven seas of shit economically.

    I am genuinely terrified about the UK economic outlook, in a way I simply haven't been for a long time.
    Interesting comments. We are going to pursue hard brexit though, there is no alternative as we have established over the last few days.
    Fortunately for the Nation "we" are not those in power. There is always an alternative; it's just a different section of the population that will be upset if it is implemented.
    Depends on what faith you have in those in power. In my own assessment May, Davis and Hammond are good eggs. Fox, Johnson and 70% of the conservative party are bad news.

    Even if we get Brexit fudge where we get a 'leave in name only' type deal then you end up with a slim majority coalition of liberal leavers and remainers running the country - IE the 'status quo', and an embittered, angry opposition screaming betrayal that builds up support and eventually overthrows it. Political chaos for a generation.

    Sometimes I'd much rather the leavers took back control and be in a minority insurgency holding them to account than part of an unsustainable status quo.
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    logical_songlogical_song Posts: 9,727
    rcs1000 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    I hope I'm wrong. But every day makes me more scared that I'm right. And I fear that we in the UK will be among the most negatively impacted.

    If you're right, do you still think Brexit was the correct decision?

    Despite all you've said about how we weren't comfortable with the political aspect, our position in the treaties is secure and surely this is not a sensible time to be pulling out.
    If the US puts in place the Border Tax, and we pursue Hard Brexit, we are going to be in seven seas of shit economically.

    I am genuinely terrified about the UK economic outlook, in a way I simply haven't been for a long time.
    So "do you still think Brexit was the correct decision?"
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    logical_songlogical_song Posts: 9,727

    I note with interest that there's a Playboy cover behind Michael Gove.

    Speaks volumes

    Gove looks really awkward in that pose.
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    AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340
    I was accused of being unduly negative with my global outlook piece last week:

    http://www2.politicalbetting.com/index.php/archives/2017/01/08/the-consequences-of-what-has-already-happened-and-the-consequences-of-what-is-yet-to-come/

    The last couple of days' news seems to fit with it well.
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    SandpitSandpit Posts: 49,941
    Reading the hatchet jobs on Jeremy Hunt this morning, it's clear why good and successful people are being dissuaded from entering politics.

    This is a company that he founded and worked to run before he become an MP, he did the right thing and placed his shares in trust and has had no input into the company since he joined the government, no-one is suggesting anything inappropriate about his shareholding, dividends or cash windfall from the sale.

    Donald Trump was right when he said that the British don't like success.
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    CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 59,787
    Ally_B said:

    No longer on the cards for Brexiteers is the prospect of a balanced/beneficial free trade deal with the USA.

    When was this ever on the cards?

    The job of the US President is to get the best possible deal for the US.

    Roosevelt was perfectly happy to fight to the last Briton if that spared American lives.

    It's his job
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    CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758

    Floater said:

    Trump's comments about NATO could be huge, they could be massive.

    NATO was one of the key things that ensured peace in Europe and helped bring down communism, no wonder Putin wants to see it destroyed, and his popinjay in Washington agrees.
    NATO members have agreed to spend 2% of GDP on defence. Most have been free riding on America's largesse. If they want the benefits of the treat they need to meet their obligations.

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    Sandpit said:

    Reading the hatchet jobs on Jeremy Hunt this morning, it's clear why good and successful people are being dissuaded from entering politics.

    This is a company that he founded and worked to run before he become an MP, he did the right thing and placed his shares in trust and has had no input into the company since he joined the government, no-one is suggesting anything inappropriate about his shareholding, dividends or cash windfall from the sale.

    Donald Trump was right when he said that the British don't like success.

    If success involves hurting others, then no one should like it.

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    CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758

    Floater said:

    Floater said:

    Trump's comments about NATO could be huge, they could be massive.

    NATO was one of the key things that ensured peace in Europe and helped bring down communism, no wonder Putin wants to see it destroyed, and his popinjay in Washington agrees.
    I know what he has said about allies pulling their weight.

    I have sympathies with that view.

    But the comments tonight do concern me.
    The Israelis and MI6 have both been advised not to share everything with Trump because they worry he'll share it with the Russians, and the Russians will share it with Iran.
    Strictly speaking, the CIA has leaked both those pieces of information (The advice to the Israelis and the request from the Brits).

    It may be true, or it may be the CIA making stuff up. They certainly benefit from the leak.
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    Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 55,534
    rcs1000 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    I hope I'm wrong. But every day makes me more scared that I'm right. And I fear that we in the UK will be among the most negatively impacted.

    If you're right, do you still think Brexit was the correct decision?

    Despite all you've said about how we weren't comfortable with the political aspect, our position in the treaties is secure and surely this is not a sensible time to be pulling out.
    If the US puts in place the Border Tax, and we pursue Hard Brexit, we are going to be in seven seas of shit economically.

    I am genuinely terrified about the UK economic outlook, in a way I simply haven't been for a long time.
    Don't encourage him, Robert.
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    Ally_BAlly_B Posts: 185

    Ally_B said:

    No longer on the cards for Brexiteers is the prospect of a balanced/beneficial free trade deal with the USA.

    When was this ever on the cards?

    The job of the US President is to get the best possible deal for the US.

    Roosevelt was perfectly happy to fight to the last Briton if that spared American lives.

    It's his job
    Oh, you mean it was always meant to be like this? Fast forward to "Dirty Harry" Trump in 2019.

    "Did you get a fair trade deal here?". Well to tell you the truth in all this excitement I kinda lost track myself. But this being the USA, the most powerful trading nation in the world, you've gotta ask yourself one question. "Do you feel lucky?" Well, do ya, punk?
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    OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 32,047

    Sandpit said:

    Reading the hatchet jobs on Jeremy Hunt this morning, it's clear why good and successful people are being dissuaded from entering politics.

    This is a company that he founded and worked to run before he become an MP, he did the right thing and placed his shares in trust and has had no input into the company since he joined the government, no-one is suggesting anything inappropriate about his shareholding, dividends or cash windfall from the sale.

    Donald Trump was right when he said that the British don't like success.

    If success involves hurting others, then no one should like it.

    To be fair to Hunt, in what way does Hotcourses hurt others?
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    Sandpit said:

    Reading the hatchet jobs on Jeremy Hunt this morning, it's clear why good and successful people are being dissuaded from entering politics.

    This is a company that he founded and worked to run before he become an MP, he did the right thing and placed his shares in trust and has had no input into the company since he joined the government, no-one is suggesting anything inappropriate about his shareholding, dividends or cash windfall from the sale.

    Donald Trump was right when he said that the British don't like success.

    If success involves hurting others, then no one should like it.

    To be fair to Hunt, in what way does Hotcourses hurt others?
    It may not. I know absolutely nothing about it.

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    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,986
    edited January 2017
    Charles said:

    Floater said:

    Trump's comments about NATO could be huge, they could be massive.

    NATO was one of the key things that ensured peace in Europe and helped bring down communism, no wonder Putin wants to see it destroyed, and his popinjay in Washington agrees.
    NATO members have agreed to spend 2% of GDP on defence. Most have been free riding on America's largesse. If they want the benefits of the treat they need to meet their obligations.

    Trump's calling other NATO members out here - particularly Germany I think. & Quite right too.

    Meanwhile I note the pound has gone under $1.20 - even as an employee of an exporter thats too low !
    Under the Tories. Brexit needs to be gone through with, but Jesus - $1.20 under the fricking Conservatives.......

    Maybe the truth is between Merkel's million refugees, our spineless pre-brexit leadership who talked out both sides of their mouth and Trump we were always screwed.
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    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,986

    Sandpit said:

    Reading the hatchet jobs on Jeremy Hunt this morning, it's clear why good and successful people are being dissuaded from entering politics.

    This is a company that he founded and worked to run before he become an MP, he did the right thing and placed his shares in trust and has had no input into the company since he joined the government, no-one is suggesting anything inappropriate about his shareholding, dividends or cash windfall from the sale.

    Donald Trump was right when he said that the British don't like success.

    If success involves hurting others, then no one should like it.

    To be fair to Hunt, in what way does Hotcourses hurt others?
    I'd never heard of the website till yesterday - weird that its worth £30 million when its simply a listing of courses, but there we are.
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    CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    Pulpstar said:

    Charles said:

    Floater said:

    Trump's comments about NATO could be huge, they could be massive.

    NATO was one of the key things that ensured peace in Europe and helped bring down communism, no wonder Putin wants to see it destroyed, and his popinjay in Washington agrees.
    NATO members have agreed to spend 2% of GDP on defence. Most have been free riding on America's largesse. If they want the benefits of the treat they need to meet their obligations.

    Trump's calling other NATO members out here - particularly Germany I think. & Quite right too.

    Meanwhile I note the pound has gone under $1.20 - even as an employee of an exporter thats too low !
    Under the Tories. Brexit needs to be gone through with, but Jesus - $1.20 under the fricking Conservatives.......

    Maybe the truth is between Merkel's million refugees, our spineless pre-brexit leadership who talked out both sides of their mouth and Trump we were always screwed.
    Google Dornbusch overshooting.

    I may even have spelt it right :wink:
This discussion has been closed.