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politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Now you can bet on how many LAB MPs will quit as during 2017

SystemSystem Posts: 11,704
edited January 2017 in General

imagepoliticalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Now you can bet on how many LAB MPs will quit as during 2017

 

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    david_herdsondavid_herdson Posts: 17,422
    For context, the last *parliament* in which more than 5 Lab MPs quit for other jobs (whether political, diplomatic, administrative, private sector or whatever), was in the 1950s. We've already had four this time and Burnham will probably make the fifth.
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    QuincelQuincel Posts: 3,949
    Quincel's First Law of Political Betting: Exciting Things happen less, and happen more slowly, than generally expected.

    I'd take 6 or fewer on those odds. Burnham taking it up to 3 is a quick start given we're only in January, but remember all the hype about 10-12 UKIP defections to follow Carswell. These things peter out more often than they ramp up.
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    QuincelQuincel Posts: 3,949
    Incidentally, this doesn't seem to be on their website. Link anyone?
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    SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 20,715
    How gratifying that the bet says six or fewer rather than six or less.
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    rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 58,427
    Rentoul on Corbyn's attempt to be like Trump:

    "He must be the most unpopular populist in modern British politics."
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    rkrkrkrkrkrk Posts: 7,920

    For context, the last *parliament* in which more than 5 Lab MPs quit for other jobs (whether political, diplomatic, administrative, private sector or whatever), was in the 1950s. We've already had four this time and Burnham will probably make the fifth.

    Mike seems to make Burnham the third... How have you got five? Or have I misunderstood?
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    Quincel said:

    Quincel's First Law of Political Betting: Exciting Things happen less, and happen more slowly, than generally expected.

    I'd take 6 or fewer on those odds. Burnham taking it up to 3 is a quick start given we're only in January, but remember all the hype about 10-12 UKIP defections to follow Carswell. These things peter out more often than they ramp up.

    There's someone else standing for a Mayorality. Give me a second.

    Steve Rotheram
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    Will defections count? And if a Labour member defects to CON/LD/IND/Whatever and then resigns to trigger a by election, will that count as a LAB resignation or a resignation from whichever party they defected to?

    Assuming Corbyn remains in post, I'd expect to see at least a couple of Blairites jump ship this year (though they might 'do a Tristan' to save face I suppose)
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    QuincelQuincel Posts: 3,949
    rkrkrk said:

    For context, the last *parliament* in which more than 5 Lab MPs quit for other jobs (whether political, diplomatic, administrative, private sector or whatever), was in the 1950s. We've already had four this time and Burnham will probably make the fifth.

    Mike seems to make Burnham the third... How have you got five? Or have I misunderstood?
    Distinction between Parliament (from 2015) and year (from 1 Jan 2017). The extra two are Sadiq Khan and Huw Irrance-Davies, both in 2016.
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    david_herdsondavid_herdson Posts: 17,422
    rkrkrk said:

    For context, the last *parliament* in which more than 5 Lab MPs quit for other jobs (whether political, diplomatic, administrative, private sector or whatever), was in the 1950s. We've already had four this time and Burnham will probably make the fifth.

    Mike seems to make Burnham the third... How have you got five? Or have I misunderstood?
    Mike is counting 2017 departures. I'm going from the GE. Includes Tooting and Ogmore.
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    philiphphiliph Posts: 4,704
    Does resign include defections to other parties?
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    rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 58,427
    Out of interest, anyone know how many Chiltern one hundreds-type jobs there are for resigning MPs? What if a dozen go at once?
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    rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 58,427

    rkrkrk said:

    For context, the last *parliament* in which more than 5 Lab MPs quit for other jobs (whether political, diplomatic, administrative, private sector or whatever), was in the 1950s. We've already had four this time and Burnham will probably make the fifth.

    Mike seems to make Burnham the third... How have you got five? Or have I misunderstood?
    Mike is counting 2017 departures. I'm going from the GE. Includes Tooting and Ogmore.
    The bet is 2017 only.
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    rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 58,427

    Will defections count? And if a Labour member defects to CON/LD/IND/Whatever and then resigns to trigger a by election, will that count as a LAB resignation or a resignation from whichever party they defected to?

    Assuming Corbyn remains in post, I'd expect to see at least a couple of Blairites jump ship this year (though they might 'do a Tristan' to save face I suppose)

    I'm not convinced Lab MPs will defect. Maybe one in the whole of rest of this parliament. The tribal thing is strong.
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    QuincelQuincel Posts: 3,949

    Quincel said:

    Quincel's First Law of Political Betting: Exciting Things happen less, and happen more slowly, than generally expected.

    I'd take 6 or fewer on those odds. Burnham taking it up to 3 is a quick start given we're only in January, but remember all the hype about 10-12 UKIP defections to follow Carswell. These things peter out more often than they ramp up.

    There's someone else standing for a Mayorality. Give me a second.

    Steve Rotheram
    Hmm, good shout. From scanning other mayoral elections in 2017 I think that's the only other Labour MP standing, though I can't find the candidates for the Sheffield election with quick Googling.

    Will defections count? And if a Labour member defects to CON/LD/IND/Whatever and then resigns to trigger a by election, will that count as a LAB resignation or a resignation from whichever party they defected to?

    Assuming Corbyn remains in post, I'd expect to see at least a couple of Blairites jump ship this year (though they might 'do a Tristan' to save face I suppose)

    According to @SharpEAngle on Twitter: No. They have to "resign their seat and stand down" (I wonder if a Carswell-esque situation would count?).
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    david_herdsondavid_herdson Posts: 17,422

    Out of interest, anyone know how many Chiltern one hundreds-type jobs there are for resigning MPs? What if a dozen go at once?

    They get appointed in succession, as with the N Ireland Anglo-Irish Agrrement by elections.
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    rkrkrkrkrkrk Posts: 7,920
    Quincel said:

    rkrkrk said:

    For context, the last *parliament* in which more than 5 Lab MPs quit for other jobs (whether political, diplomatic, administrative, private sector or whatever), was in the 1950s. We've already had four this time and Burnham will probably make the fifth.

    Mike seems to make Burnham the third... How have you got five? Or have I misunderstood?
    Distinction between Parliament (from 2015) and year (from 1 Jan 2017). The extra two are Sadiq Khan and Huw Irrance-Davies, both in 2016.
    Thanks. Okay so three for purposes of bet (assuming Burnham does resign).
    Odds seem well chosen to me... Not sure which way to gotobe honest
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    david_herdsondavid_herdson Posts: 17,422

    rkrkrk said:

    For context, the last *parliament* in which more than 5 Lab MPs quit for other jobs (whether political, diplomatic, administrative, private sector or whatever), was in the 1950s. We've already had four this time and Burnham will probably make the fifth.

    Mike seems to make Burnham the third... How have you got five? Or have I misunderstood?
    Mike is counting 2017 departures. I'm going from the GE. Includes Tooting and Ogmore.
    The bet is 2017 only.
    I know. That's why I highlighted 'parliament' in the original, to emphasise the difference.
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    How gratifying that the bet says six or fewer rather than six or less.

    I name you StannisRentool, first of his name.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G0zNWswcqMg
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    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 76,002
    Britain today:

    Items 6 & 7 on the BBC:

    Is it OK to watch porn in public?

    How to get a pension of £20,000 a year
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    surbitonsurbiton Posts: 13,549
    surbiton said:

    Quincel said:

    I see Ladbrokes are taking the rare step of offering doubles on the by-elections. Seeing as many of the same dynamics affect both races (chiefly, is Corbyn really toxic in Labour seats or not so bad) I think that's rather generous. I particularly like the 5/2 on Labour holding both seats, but the 13/8 on them losing both isn't too bad for the same logic as above.

    I find it extraordinary that Ladbrokes thinks Labour losing both is more likely than Labour winning both.

    Then what are the odds for Labour losing one of the two ?
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    Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,010
    FPT: Mr. Surbiton, I do wonder if we're underestimating the residual strength of Labour's brand, despite Corbyn.

    There's no equivalent of the SNP south of the border. Lib Dems start from too low a base, UKIP's receding and the Conservatives can't leap in the same way because they're the Government and already have a majority.
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    dr_spyndr_spyn Posts: 11,291
    Forward with Corbyn...still only 8 points behind Tories.

    https://twitter.com/NCPoliticsUK/status/820311441072910337
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    Opinium/Observer poll

    Con 38 (nc) Lab 30 (-1) Lib Dems 7 (+1) UKIP 14 (+1)

    And

    If the government has to choose between staying in the single market or ending free movement, 41% would opt for the latter, and 32% the former.

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/jan/14/labour-struggling-build-voter-support-poll-theresa-may-jeremy-corbyn
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    On topic, I'm going for seven or more.
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    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 117,167
    If Steve Rotheram is elected Mayor of Liverpool he will also step down as MP for Liverpool Walton. Though given he had a majority of 27,777 over UKIP I don't think there is much chance of even Corbyn losing there
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liverpool_Walton_(UK_Parliament_constituency)
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    surbitonsurbiton Posts: 13,549
    edited January 2017

    Opinium/Observer poll

    Con 38 (nc) Lab 30 (-1) Lib Dems 7 (+1) UKIP 14 (+1)

    And

    If the government has to choose between staying in the single market or ending free movement, 41% would opt for the latter, and 32% the former.

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/jan/14/labour-struggling-build-voter-support-poll-theresa-may-jeremy-corbyn

    2015 General Election result. Corbyn Team will take it now.

    Staying in the Single Market is becoming more popular.
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    maaarshmaaarsh Posts: 3,391

    How gratifying that the bet says six or fewer rather than six or less.

    Only if you accept Labour MPs as distinct entities rather than an homologous irrelevance.
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    rkrkrkrkrkrk Posts: 7,920

    FPT: Mr. Surbiton, I do wonder if we're underestimating the residual strength of Labour's brand, despite Corbyn.

    There's no equivalent of the SNP south of the border. Lib Dems start from too low a base, UKIP's receding and the Conservatives can't leap in the same way because they're the Government and already have a majority.

    I agree. The poll below shows labour on 30% - almost the same as under miliband.
    Corbyn isn't doing well... But I think the predictions of annihilation are overdone.
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    williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 48,146
    surbiton said:

    Staying in the Single Market is becoming more popular.

    The government obviously sees that as a concern based on this:

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/01/07/civil-servants-told-make-patriotic-case-brexit/
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    justin124justin124 Posts: 11,527
    surbiton said:

    Opinium/Observer poll

    Con 38 (nc) Lab 30 (-1) Lib Dems 7 (+1) UKIP 14 (+1)

    And

    If the government has to choose between staying in the single market or ending free movement, 41% would opt for the latter, and 32% the former.

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/jan/14/labour-struggling-build-voter-support-poll-theresa-may-jeremy-corbyn

    2015 General Election result. Corbyn Team will take it now.

    Staying in the Single Market is becoming more popular.
    On those figures Labour would easily retain both seats.
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    QuincelQuincel Posts: 3,949
    justin124 said:

    surbiton said:

    Opinium/Observer poll

    Con 38 (nc) Lab 30 (-1) Lib Dems 7 (+1) UKIP 14 (+1)

    And

    If the government has to choose between staying in the single market or ending free movement, 41% would opt for the latter, and 32% the former.

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/jan/14/labour-struggling-build-voter-support-poll-theresa-may-jeremy-corbyn

    2015 General Election result. Corbyn Team will take it now.

    Staying in the Single Market is becoming more popular.
    On those figures Labour would easily retain both seats.
    True, but it's not a sudden swing. Opinium have been showing single-digit leads while the average lead is 11-12% for a while.
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    RobDRobD Posts: 58,990
    surbiton said:

    Opinium/Observer poll

    Con 38 (nc) Lab 30 (-1) Lib Dems 7 (+1) UKIP 14 (+1)

    And

    If the government has to choose between staying in the single market or ending free movement, 41% would opt for the latter, and 32% the former.

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/jan/14/labour-struggling-build-voter-support-poll-theresa-may-jeremy-corbyn

    2015 General Election result. Corbyn Team will take it now.

    Staying in the Single Market is becoming more popular.
    Have they asked this question on the single market before? MORI has asked this question, and got the opposite answer, suggesting it is becoming less popular

    https://www.politicshome.com/news/uk/constitution/european-integration/news/80051/public-lean-towards-single-market-over-reduced
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    williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 48,146
    German MP Erika Steinbach is leaving the CDU over Merkel's asylum policies and has wished the AfD good luck.
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    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 117,167
    edited January 2017

    Opinium/Observer poll

    Con 38 (nc) Lab 30 (-1) Lib Dems 7 (+1) UKIP 14 (+1)

    And

    If the government has to choose between staying in the single market or ending free movement, 41% would opt for the latter, and 32% the former.

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/jan/14/labour-struggling-build-voter-support-poll-theresa-may-jeremy-corbyn

    Boost for hard Brexit, while May will try for a trade deal full single market membership is a non starter without any new immigration controls
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    RobDRobD Posts: 58,990

    German MP Erika Steinbach is leaving the CDU over Merkel's asylum policies and has wished the AfD good luck.

    What's German for TPD? :D
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    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 117,167
    edited January 2017
    justin124 said:

    surbiton said:

    Opinium/Observer poll

    Con 38 (nc) Lab 30 (-1) Lib Dems 7 (+1) UKIP 14 (+1)

    And

    If the government has to choose between staying in the single market or ending free movement, 41% would opt for the latter, and 32% the former.

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/jan/14/labour-struggling-build-voter-support-poll-theresa-may-jeremy-corbyn

    2015 General Election result. Corbyn Team will take it now.

    Staying in the Single Market is becoming more popular.
    On those figures Labour would easily retain both seats.
    Only because Opinium is the only pollster to have made no adjustments since the general election which is why it gets a repeat of the 2015 result and has Labour and UKIP higher than other pollsters and the LDs and Tories lower. I grant you Labour will probably hold Stoke but most polls show Copeland is too close to call
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    RobDRobD Posts: 58,990
    Pulpstar said:

    Britain today:

    Items 6 & 7 on the BBC:

    Is it OK to watch porn in public?

    How to get a pension of £20,000 a year

    They really do have a lot of crap on their news site these days.
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    TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 41,403

    How gratifying that the bet says six or fewer rather than six or less.

    Your right, it's excellent.
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    MortimerMortimer Posts: 13,956
    Strikes me from the numerous vox pops and media pieces that Copeland still has the vestiges of party loyalty, especially to Labour, whilst in Stoke that loyalty has disappeared. I'm finding Stoke really hard to call...
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    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 117,167
    Mortimer said:

    Strikes me from the numerous vox pops and media pieces that Copeland still has the vestiges of party loyalty, especially to Labour, whilst in Stoke that loyalty has disappeared. I'm finding Stoke really hard to call...

    The Tories can win Copeland if they squeeze the UKIP vote and get their vote out and a few Labour voters go LD or stay at home, Labour will hold Stoke, UKIP are too far behind
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    Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,010
    Mr. D, to be fair, I've read two interesting and informative pieces on the Cyprus talks on the BBC website (streets ahead of the emotional claptrap on the broadcast news).

    Mr. Mortimer, interesting, but tricky to get representative vox pops, perhaps?
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    TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 41,403
    Off topic - what an extremely sensible QT last night. Owen Patterson and Jeremy Whoever it was ex-LD talking an awful lot of sense on the NHS. Tezza should make one of them Health Secretary.
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    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 76,002
    http://www.spacex.com/webcast

    Rocket time.

    Hopefully more succesful thant he last try !

    *Crosses fingers*
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    TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 41,403
    surbiton said:

    Opinium/Observer poll

    Con 38 (nc) Lab 30 (-1) Lib Dems 7 (+1) UKIP 14 (+1)

    And

    If the government has to choose between staying in the single market or ending free movement, 41% would opt for the latter, and 32% the former.

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/jan/14/labour-struggling-build-voter-support-poll-theresa-may-jeremy-corbyn

    Staying in the Single Market is becoming more popular.
    Albeit a political impossibility.
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    MortimerMortimer Posts: 13,956
    HYUFD said:

    Mortimer said:

    Strikes me from the numerous vox pops and media pieces that Copeland still has the vestiges of party loyalty, especially to Labour, whilst in Stoke that loyalty has disappeared. I'm finding Stoke really hard to call...

    The Tories can win Copeland if they squeeze the UKIP vote and get their vote out and a few Labour voters go LD or stay at home, Labour will hold Stoke, UKIP are too far behind
    All very sensible sounding, but I'm struck by the impression in Shipper's Brexit book that local party apparatus is basically moribund in 'safe' seats which a) made Remain's canvassing difficult and b) made it difficult to judge how wrong their message was until too late.

    Something makes me wonder whether laying Labour Inn stoke is the cannier bet...
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    JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 39,075
    Pulpstar said:

    http://www.spacex.com/webcast

    Rocket time.

    Hopefully more succesful thant he last try !

    *Crosses fingers*

    Awww, I was going to post that!

    Fingers crossed indeed.

    They didn't even *try* for a launch with the last one; it explodedcaught fire during a test.

    I think they're trying to launch ten satellites at once, so if they have a problem I reckon it'll be in the second-stage orbital part of the mission.
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    Black_RookBlack_Rook Posts: 8,905
    rkrkrk said:

    FPT: Mr. Surbiton, I do wonder if we're underestimating the residual strength of Labour's brand, despite Corbyn.

    There's no equivalent of the SNP south of the border. Lib Dems start from too low a base, UKIP's receding and the Conservatives can't leap in the same way because they're the Government and already have a majority.

    I agree. The poll below shows labour on 30% - almost the same as under miliband.
    Corbyn isn't doing well... But I think the predictions of annihilation are overdone.
    The Opinium numbers recently have tended to show Tory leads at the lower end of the range for all surveys. This might be something to do with methodology that is peculiar to them. In any event, whilst I certainly do think that the Labour brand is strong, I doubt if they're doing as well as 30%. The chasm in approval ratings between Corbyn and May, and other recent polls showing Tory leads on most policy areas, all suggest that a Labour value of 30% is just a little too generous.

    Besides, a figure that high isn't necessarily what Labour will end up with in a General Election, of course. In fact, it would be unprecedented in modern times (for which, read the last half-century) for them to do so. We have already passed the point in this Parliament relative to which - when the election eventually occurred - a Labour Party in Opposition has ALWAYS polled lower. Even in the 92-97 Parliament, albeit that the fall was slight in that case.

    Oppositions that are doing well - especially when faced with Governments beset by challenges - typically lead in mid-term. The Conservatives have been ahead in every single Westminster VI poll since May entered office, with a mean lead of almost 12%. This is somewhat sub-optimal for Labour.

    Of course there won't be a massacre. Labour has such gargantuan majorities in most of its surviving seats that they're only really vulnerable to the kinds of swings that happened in Scotland, and there's no sign of that occurring. But it could be reduced to its lowest total of MPs since the 1930s. This would leave it as an impotent bystander in Parliament and almost certainly take more than one further electoral cycle to recover from - even if Labour proves both willing and able to make a comeback, which is far from certain to put it mildly.
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    Told you transferring in Harry Kane as captain would be inspired.

    Now about tomorrow when England play India in the cricket and I go see Liverpool take on Manchester United at Old Trafford.
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    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 117,167
    edited January 2017
    TOPPING said:

    surbiton said:

    Opinium/Observer poll

    Con 38 (nc) Lab 30 (-1) Lib Dems 7 (+1) UKIP 14 (+1)

    And

    If the government has to choose between staying in the single market or ending free movement, 41% would opt for the latter, and 32% the former.

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/jan/14/labour-struggling-build-voter-support-poll-theresa-may-jeremy-corbyn

    Staying in the Single Market is becoming more popular.
    Albeit a political impossibility.
    Also becoming less popular not more so
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    They were superb today. What a team Poch is building. And on half the wage bill of the other top 6 clubs.

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    RobD said:

    German MP Erika Steinbach is leaving the CDU over Merkel's asylum policies and has wished the AfD good luck.

    What's German for TPD? :D
    Verräterischer schweinhund
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    QuincelQuincel Posts: 3,949
    I seem to recall someone (isam?) tipping Harry Kane as top scorer a couple of weeks back at 10/1 or so. Wish I'd taken note then.
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    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 117,167
    Mortimer said:

    HYUFD said:

    Mortimer said:

    Strikes me from the numerous vox pops and media pieces that Copeland still has the vestiges of party loyalty, especially to Labour, whilst in Stoke that loyalty has disappeared. I'm finding Stoke really hard to call...

    The Tories can win Copeland if they squeeze the UKIP vote and get their vote out and a few Labour voters go LD or stay at home, Labour will hold Stoke, UKIP are too far behind
    All very sensible sounding, but I'm struck by the impression in Shipper's Brexit book that local party apparatus is basically moribund in 'safe' seats which a) made Remain's canvassing difficult and b) made it difficult to judge how wrong their message was until too late.

    Something makes me wonder whether laying Labour Inn stoke is the cannier bet...
    Possibly but UKIP's campaign organisation is even worse than Labour's, unlike the Tories
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    Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,010
    Mr. Eagles, du bist Fegelein, und ich will meine funf Reichsmarks.

    [Afraid I don't know the German verb 'to claim'].
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    isamisam Posts: 41,002
    Quincel said:

    I seem to recall someone (isam?) tipping Harry Kane as top scorer a couple of weeks back at 10/1 or so. Wish I'd taken note then.

    Yes it was me... I made him 13/2, and that was without Costa maybe leaving!
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    TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 114,584
    edited January 2017

    Mr. Eagles, du bist Fegelein, und ich will meine funf Reichsmarks.

    [Afraid I don't know the German verb 'to claim'].

    Ich behaupte.
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    Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,010
    Mr. Eagles, cheers.

    Although wouldn't it be 'behaupte'?
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    TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 114,584
    edited January 2017

    Mr. Eagles, cheers.

    Although wouldn't it be 'behaupte'?

    Ja, I blame using a foreign language on a English language dominant phone with auto-correct/suggestion.

    Blinking past participles
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    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 76,002
    1 second launch window, I couldn't organise taking a piss to that sort of level of timeliness.
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    williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 48,146

    Mr. Eagles, du bist Fegelein, und ich will meine funf Reichsmarks.

    [Afraid I don't know the German verb 'to claim'].

    Ich behaupte.
    That means claim in the sense of to claim something is true. You want verlangen or fodern.
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    theakestheakes Posts: 842
    Gosh Lib Dems now down to 9 -2 to win Stoke Central at William Hill.
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    SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 20,715
    Was a TV producer making a bit of mischief today - vegetarian Hilary Benn being interviewed against the backdrop of a steak restaurant?
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    Mr. Eagles, du bist Fegelein, und ich will meine funf Reichsmarks.

    [Afraid I don't know the German verb 'to claim'].

    Ich behaupte.
    That means claim in the sense of to claim something is true. You want verlangen or fodern.
    Scheiße, I used to be quite good at German.
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    isamisam Posts: 41,002
    edited January 2017
    theakes said:

    Gosh Lib Dems now down to 9 -2 to win Stoke Central at William Hill.

    We really should establish a principle of how to relate the price of a runner on here, and that principle should be to quote the biggest price available. Quoting the shortest price makes the site look very amateur.

    Lib Dems are 7/1 w b365 and 9.4-11 on Betfair
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    Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,010
    Cheers, Mr. Glenn.

    Anyway, I must be off.
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    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 76,002
    theakes said:

    Gosh Lib Dems now down to 9 -2 to win Stoke Central at William Hill.

    A ridiculous price.
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    isamisam Posts: 41,002
    Conservatives are 20/1 w SJ! That must be value surely?
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    David_EvershedDavid_Evershed Posts: 6,506
    edited January 2017
    TOPPING said:

    Off topic - what an extremely sensible QT last night. Owen Patterson and Jeremy Whoever it was ex-LD talking an awful lot of sense on the NHS. Tezza should make one of them Health Secretary.

    Jeremy Browne. Excellent.

    Very Orange. Classic neoliberal

    Back from the dead?
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    New ComRes poll out

    New Comres poll finds 57% of the public support Jeremy Corbyn's wage cap policy with even Tory voters backing it by 49% to 41%.
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    Mr. Eagles, du bist Fegelein, und ich will meine funf Reichsmarks.

    [Afraid I don't know the German verb 'to claim'].

    Is it beKlaimen?
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    TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 41,403

    TOPPING said:

    Off topic - what an extremely sensible QT last night. Owen Patterson and Jeremy Whoever it was ex-LD talking an awful lot of sense on the NHS. Tezza should make one of them Health Secretary.

    Jeremy Browne. Excellent.

    Very Orange. Classic neoliberal

    Back from the dead?
    Well they were both saying the unsayable about the NHS so I don't suppose Tezza will have the balls to employ or consult either. Shame, though - something needs to happen.
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    SlackbladderSlackbladder Posts: 9,713

    New ComRes poll out

    New Comres poll finds 57% of the public support Jeremy Corbyn's wage cap policy with even Tory voters backing it by 49% to 41%.

    Sorry, filing that in the 'people don't actually understand the implications' file.
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    TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 114,584
    edited January 2017
    I'm out for the rest of the evening.

    Can someone let Justin know, once again this ComRes poll DOES NOT include any VI before he gets overexcited again.,
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    rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 58,427
    Pulpstar said:

    theakes said:

    Gosh Lib Dems now down to 9 -2 to win Stoke Central at William Hill.

    A ridiculous price.
    9.4 on BF.
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    TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 41,403

    New ComRes poll out

    New Comres poll finds 57% of the public support Jeremy Corbyn's wage cap policy with even Tory voters backing it by 49% to 41%.

    Sorry, filing that in the 'people don't actually understand the implications' file.
    That's a big file..
  • Options
    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 76,002
    isam said:

    Conservatives are 20/1 w SJ! That must be value surely?

    Odds of getting on with Stan or James though :D ?
  • Options
    The NHS findings really are a kick in the nuts for Labour.


    More people agree than disagree that the Red Cross was right to describe the NHS was experiencing a humanitarian crisis (47% to 36%) but on who do they think would be better at managing the NHS winter crisis

    Theresa May/Tories - 43%

    Jeremy Corbyn/Labour - 31%

    So a 12% lead for the Tories on the NHS.
  • Options
    SlackbladderSlackbladder Posts: 9,713
    TOPPING said:

    New ComRes poll out

    New Comres poll finds 57% of the public support Jeremy Corbyn's wage cap policy with even Tory voters backing it by 49% to 41%.

    Sorry, filing that in the 'people don't actually understand the implications' file.
    That's a big file..
    Why not re-phrase the question as ' do you want to cap wages, which means everyone else would need to pay more tax'.
  • Options
    nunununu Posts: 6,024

    New ComRes poll out

    New Comres poll finds 57% of the public support Jeremy Corbyn's wage cap policy with even Tory voters backing it by 49% to 41%.

    The voters are wrong. Just wrong.


    (Except on Brexit).
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    isamisam Posts: 41,002
    edited January 2017
    Pulpstar said:

    isam said:

    Conservatives are 20/1 w SJ! That must be value surely?

    Odds of getting on with Stan or James though :D ?
    Not good... but someone may be able to

    Do you think its value? People on here are saying they expect UKIP and Cons to be close or even Cons in front.... 5/2 plays 20/1!

    That'd make the match bet 2/13 UKIP 13/2 Cons
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    DavidLDavidL Posts: 51,392
    I think that a relevant question has to be how many Labour MPs could, with the best will in the world, hope to get a job paying anything like the package that they are on at the moment?
    Tristam Hunt was a possibility, the guy who has got the job in the nuclear industry was apparently another, how many are there?

    The most likely reason for MPs standing down was a Mayoral sinecure. As far as I can see we have 2 likely candidates which gets us to 4. More than another 2? I just don't see it.
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    SlackbladderSlackbladder Posts: 9,713

    The NHS findings really are a kick in the nuts for Labour.


    More people agree than disagree that the Red Cross was right to describe the NHS was experiencing a humanitarian crisis (47% to 36%) but on who do they think would be better at managing the NHS winter crisis

    Theresa May/Tories - 43%

    Jeremy Corbyn/Labour - 31%

    So a 12% lead for the Tories on the NHS.

    I know I'm a tory supporter, but how the flying f*** are they not being hammered on the NHS?

    Corbyn is utter shite.
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    SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 20,715

    New ComRes poll out

    New Comres poll finds 57% of the public support Jeremy Corbyn's wage cap policy with even Tory voters backing it by 49% to 41%.

    Sorry, filing that in the 'people don't actually understand the implications' file.
    Sorry, guvnor. We must remember our places, tug our forelocks and listen to our betters.

  • Options
    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 76,002
    isam said:

    Pulpstar said:

    isam said:

    Conservatives are 20/1 w SJ! That must be value surely?

    Odds of getting on with Stan or James though :D ?
    Not good... but someone may be able to

    Do you think its value? People on here are saying they expect UKIP and Cons to be close or even Cons in front.... 5/2 plays 20/1!

    That'd make the match bet 2/13 UKIP 13/2 Cons
    Main bet is a ton on Labour at 1.84 for me tbh
  • Options
    TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 41,403

    The NHS findings really are a kick in the nuts for Labour.


    More people agree than disagree that the Red Cross was right to describe the NHS was experiencing a humanitarian crisis (47% to 36%) but on who do they think would be better at managing the NHS winter crisis

    Theresa May/Tories - 43%

    Jeremy Corbyn/Labour - 31%

    So a 12% lead for the Tories on the NHS.

    I know I'm a tory supporter, but how the flying f*** are they not being hammered on the NHS?

    Corbyn is utter shite.
    One would hope that people are beginning to realise that the largest injection of money into the NHS came under Tone & Gordo and that we are still where we are.

    I appreciate that there is a huge social care dimension to the state of the NHS atm but nevertheless, perhaps people realise that spunking money up the (ward) wall isn't always the answer.
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    isamisam Posts: 41,002
    Pulpstar said:

    isam said:

    Pulpstar said:

    isam said:

    Conservatives are 20/1 w SJ! That must be value surely?

    Odds of getting on with Stan or James though :D ?
    Not good... but someone may be able to

    Do you think its value? People on here are saying they expect UKIP and Cons to be close or even Cons in front.... 5/2 plays 20/1!

    That'd make the match bet 2/13 UKIP 13/2 Cons
    Main bet is a ton on Labour at 1.84 for me tbh
    Ladbrokes taking a view to get against Labour, 5/6
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    AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 23,763

    TOPPING said:

    New ComRes poll out

    New Comres poll finds 57% of the public support Jeremy Corbyn's wage cap policy with even Tory voters backing it by 49% to 41%.

    Sorry, filing that in the 'people don't actually understand the implications' file.
    That's a big file..
    Why not re-phrase the question as ' do you want to cap wages, which means everyone else would need to pay more tax'.
    you'd get the answer top earners dont pay much tax anyway
  • Options
    SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 20,715

    TOPPING said:

    New ComRes poll out

    New Comres poll finds 57% of the public support Jeremy Corbyn's wage cap policy with even Tory voters backing it by 49% to 41%.

    Sorry, filing that in the 'people don't actually understand the implications' file.
    That's a big file..
    Why not re-phrase the question as ' do you want to cap wages, which means everyone else would need to pay more tax'.
    Or 'do you want to cap wages, so for the same total wage bill, most people will earn a bit more?'.
  • Options
    isam said:

    theakes said:

    Gosh Lib Dems now down to 9 -2 to win Stoke Central at William Hill.

    We really should establish a principle of how to relate the price of a runner on here, and that principle should be to quote the biggest price available. Quoting the shortest price makes the site look very amateur.

    Lib Dems are 7/1 w b365 and 9.4-11 on Betfair
    Is 9.4 - 11 an amateur price or a professional price?
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    isamisam Posts: 41,002
    edited January 2017

    isam said:

    theakes said:

    Gosh Lib Dems now down to 9 -2 to win Stoke Central at William Hill.

    We really should establish a principle of how to relate the price of a runner on here, and that principle should be to quote the biggest price available. Quoting the shortest price makes the site look very amateur.

    Lib Dems are 7/1 w b365 and 9.4-11 on Betfair
    Is 9.4 - 11 an amateur price or a professional price?
    They are the prices available on the exchange to back & lay...quoting only one side of Betfair is another no no
  • Options
    SlackbladderSlackbladder Posts: 9,713

    TOPPING said:

    New ComRes poll out

    New Comres poll finds 57% of the public support Jeremy Corbyn's wage cap policy with even Tory voters backing it by 49% to 41%.

    Sorry, filing that in the 'people don't actually understand the implications' file.
    That's a big file..
    Why not re-phrase the question as ' do you want to cap wages, which means everyone else would need to pay more tax'.
    Or 'do you want to cap wages, so for the same total wage bill, most people will earn a bit more?'.
    So you would start dictating to private companies what they must spend money on?

    Good luck with that.
  • Options

    TOPPING said:

    New ComRes poll out

    New Comres poll finds 57% of the public support Jeremy Corbyn's wage cap policy with even Tory voters backing it by 49% to 41%.

    Sorry, filing that in the 'people don't actually understand the implications' file.
    That's a big file..
    Why not re-phrase the question as ' do you want to cap wages, which means everyone else would need to pay more tax'.
    Or 'do you want to cap wages, so for the same total wage bill, most people will earn a bit more?'.
    So you would start dictating to private companies what they must spend money on?

    Good luck with that.

    May's plans to reduce net immigration to 100,000 is exactly that, isn't it?

  • Options
    SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 20,715

    TOPPING said:

    New ComRes poll out

    New Comres poll finds 57% of the public support Jeremy Corbyn's wage cap policy with even Tory voters backing it by 49% to 41%.

    Sorry, filing that in the 'people don't actually understand the implications' file.
    That's a big file..
    Why not re-phrase the question as ' do you want to cap wages, which means everyone else would need to pay more tax'.
    Or 'do you want to cap wages, so for the same total wage bill, most people will earn a bit more?'.
    So you would start dictating to private companies what they must spend money on?

    Good luck with that.
    Well if they want to win public sector contracts they might have to do what they are being asked.
  • Options
    Black_RookBlack_Rook Posts: 8,905

    The NHS findings really are a kick in the nuts for Labour.

    More people agree than disagree that the Red Cross was right to describe the NHS was experiencing a humanitarian crisis (47% to 36%) but on who do they think would be better at managing the NHS winter crisis

    Theresa May/Tories - 43%

    Jeremy Corbyn/Labour - 31%

    So a 12% lead for the Tories on the NHS.

    In these sorts of surveys, everything depends on the exact question.

    This question invites people to pass judgement on both the parties AND the leaders. In other recent surveys, when the leader names are omitted, Labour has been shown to retain a modest lead on health.

    This demonstrates - as if we didn't know it already - that Theresa May is a significant asset to the Conservatives, Jeremy Corbyn a terrible handicap for Labour.

    More generally, the survey gives both sides something to come away with, but the public do tend to have emotionally overwrought reactions to questions relating to the funding of the NHS (most of them reflexively say it should always have more cash thrown it at,) and the management of the NHS (Health Secretaries are almost invariably woefully unpopular, even if people have never really heard of them before.)

    One of the results that most strikes me is the one suggesting, once again, that voters favour paying more tax if it were to be hypothecated for health spending. I don't believe that for a second. Any party which goes into an election promising tax rises to fund social goodies will pay a price.

    People say they're willing to pay these extra taxes in order to make themselves sound nice and feel virtuous, but different impulses assert themselves in the privacy of the ballot box. Most voters do not support such measures - or if they do, what they really mean is that the extra tax should only be paid by people whose total income is at least £1 higher than theirs.

    Terribly cynical of me, I know.
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    TOPPING said:

    The NHS findings really are a kick in the nuts for Labour.


    More people agree than disagree that the Red Cross was right to describe the NHS was experiencing a humanitarian crisis (47% to 36%) but on who do they think would be better at managing the NHS winter crisis

    Theresa May/Tories - 43%

    Jeremy Corbyn/Labour - 31%

    So a 12% lead for the Tories on the NHS.

    I know I'm a tory supporter, but how the flying f*** are they not being hammered on the NHS?

    Corbyn is utter shite.
    One would hope that people are beginning to realise that the largest injection of money into the NHS came under Tone & Gordo and that we are still where we are.

    I appreciate that there is a huge social care dimension to the state of the NHS atm but nevertheless, perhaps people realise that spunking money up the (ward) wall isn't always the answer.
    Despite the constant negative stories on the NHS I do believe that people are beginning to question the constant demand for billions more and even if it is forthcoming how it is spent will be of most concern.

    Sky reporting this morning big support for Theresa May on withholding funds on doctors not opening 8 - 8 - 7 days a week. How many know the Government has allocated in excess of 500,000 million for this improved GP service

    There will be a big clamour to increase salaries but that will not address the massive increase in demand and you can bet that if Corbyn was given cart blanche it would go on salaries.
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    TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 114,584
    edited January 2017

    The NHS findings really are a kick in the nuts for Labour.


    More people agree than disagree that the Red Cross was right to describe the NHS was experiencing a humanitarian crisis (47% to 36%) but on who do they think would be better at managing the NHS winter crisis

    Theresa May/Tories - 43%

    Jeremy Corbyn/Labour - 31%

    So a 12% lead for the Tories on the NHS.

    I know I'm a tory supporter, but how the flying f*** are they not being hammered on the NHS?

    Corbyn is utter shite.
    As an opinion pollster put it to me earlier on this week (to annoy me)

    'Jeremy Corbyn is so dire, even George Osborne or IDS would win a landslide against him'

    If leadership ratings really are the best indicator then we're heading for a massive Tory majority at the next.

    To the put it all into context (figures are Ipsos Mori)

    In December 2011 Cameron had a 9% lead over Ed Miliband in the leader ratings.

    In May 2015 Cameron's lead over Ed was 17% in the leader ratings.

    In December 2016 May's lead over Corbyn was 47% in the leader ratings.
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