I want to lay Le Pen. Given she (personally) didn't even come close in the most FN friendly region of France against an insipid LR candidate in the immediate aftermath of the Bataclan and Nice attaks, I can't see how she can possibly win the Presidency absent a massive shock.
In the presidential election, turnout will probably exceed 80% in both rounds.
I think that rather proves my point. Let's just assume that all the 20% increase in turnout between the regionals and the presidential goes to the Front National. That would put Le Pen in the lead, but only by a relatively modest margin, perhaps 56:44. (Her vote would increase to about 1.8m.)
If she only wins Haut de France by that margin, she probably loses the Presidential race by close to twenty points.
There's another question related to this: if the next Labour leader is a non-Corbynite, how will Momentum and the pro-Corbyn people within Labour (e.g. NPXMP) react? Would they peacefully go along with it, or would there be more trouble?
As an aside, what progress has Corbyn and Momentum made recently in changing the party's rules and the NEC to their liking? It all seems to have gone a little quiet.
No progress at all. Most of the logistical and policy making stuff is done in meetings where people have to turn up and vote. Most new members do not do that. They are happy to vote via the internet but their involvement with Labour does not go beyond that. That means they have a block on the leadership and can elect six NEC members of the recommendation of Jon Lansmann, the millionaire who owns the Momentum database and controls its money, but no more. CLPs and regional groups are mainly in the hands of moderates. That's also why talk of deselect ion has all but disappeared.
Fantastic article - should be compulsive reading for Meeks, TSE, etc - enough to completely blow up so many closed minds
Ha, ha. A member of the Establishment Elite railing against other members of the Establishment Elite who do not agree with him. The referendum in a nutshell.
There's another question related to this: if the next Labour leader is a non-Corbynite, how will Momentum and the pro-Corbyn people within Labour (e.g. NPXMP) react? Would they peacefully go along with it, or would there be more trouble?
As an aside, what progress has Corbyn and Momentum made recently in changing the party's rules and the NEC to their liking? It all seems to have gone a little quiet.
No progress at all. Most of the logistical and policy making stuff is done in meetings where people have to turn up and vote. Most new members do not do that. They are happy to vote via the internet but their involvement with Labour does not go beyond that. That means they have a block on the leadership and can elect six NEC members of the recommendation of Jon Lansmann, the millionaire who owns the Momentum database and controls its money, but no more. CLPs and regional groups are mainly in the hands of moderates. That's also why talk of deselect ion has all but disappeared.
Fantastic article - should be compulsive reading for Meeks, TSE, etc - enough to completely blow up so many closed minds
No. It is just a poorly written rant by a posh bloke to justify his predjudices.
Just a swivel eyed loon frothing at his mouth.
It does remind me of why I don't buy the "Speccie"...
To be fair... His only purpose in writing the article is to promote his book. And throwing out the red meat for Felix (there's a catfood joke in there but I can't quite work it out) is probably the best way to go.
Just read that Bartholomew coined the term "virtue signalling". That article is one long virtue signal.
What writers do you read who you normally disagree with... But you enjoy reading them and sometimes they even change your mind?
For me Daniel Hannan (shame he no longer has telegraph blog), John Redwood and Peter Hitchens.
Of non politician writers, Toby Young writes well, and while Theo Dalrymple is misanthropic and scathing of the WWC his pieces are well written and often with affection. The writers at Spiked-online are deliberately controversialist and contrary, so patchily good.
Mostly PB though. The standard of argument and dissection of evidence is far better than anywhere else that I know.
Fantastic article - should be compulsive reading for Meeks, TSE, etc - enough to completely blow up so many closed minds
What an unpleasant and arrogant article. To save you going through the whole turgid piece read this paragraph and if you find it 'fantastic' like felix does read on...
"Why would anyone support Hillary Clinton — a ruthless, charmless Washington insider with socialist tendencies? Why do lawyers, churchmen, the BBC and, indeed, most educated people support the EU — an organisation as saturated with smug self-righteousness as it is with corruption; one which created the euro, which in turn has caused millions of people to be unemployed; an organisation which combines a yawning democratic deficit with incompetence over immigration and economic growth?"
Not sure what you're getting at here Roge....
Do you support charmless insiders? Support the smug self-righteousness of Eurocrats? Agree with mass youth unemployment in the South and the suppressed German currency and unthinking German monetary policy that promotes it?
If any of the above then I can understand why you're not quite getting the point...
Despite offering free tuition, Scotland has the worst record than anywhere else in the UK when it comes to getting students from poorer backgrounds into university, says new report.
The Access to Scotland report from social mobility charity The Sutton Trust has found there to be a narrowing of the gap between rich and poor young people entering higher education (HE) across the UK in recent years.
However, despite improvements, young disadvantaged Scottish people are four times less likely to go to university than their wealthier counterparts. In England the same figure is 2.4, while in Wales and Northern Ireland, poorer students are three times more likely to do so.
All good fun but I'd wonder if the English figures are skewed by poor immigrant families sending their offspring to university rather than any great rise in WWC enrolment, as well as the the greater role of non-university HE north of the border.
Certainly that is true at my Medical School, we get lots of good state school educated second generation applicants. Leicester is seen as a city with a positive and varied cultural vibe by applicants so may well get a disproportionate number of second generation applications.
There's another question related to this: if the next Labour leader is a non-Corbynite, how will Momentum and the pro-Corbyn people within Labour (e.g. NPXMP) react? Would they peacefully go along with it, or would there be more trouble?
As an aside, what progress has Corbyn and Momentum made recently in changing the party's rules and the NEC to their liking? It all seems to have gone a little quiet.
No progress at all. Most of the logistical and policy making stuff is done in meetings where people have to turn up and vote. Most new members do not do that. They are happy to vote via the internet but their involvement with Labour does not go beyond that. That means they have a block on the leadership and can elect six NEC members of the recommendation of Jon Lansmann, the millionaire who owns the Momentum database and controls its money, but no more. CLPs and regional groups are mainly in the hands of moderates. That's also why talk of deselect ion has all but disappeared.
Actually it looks to me that PPC selections are going the way of fairly mainstream Labour supporters in local government and Trade Unions. This seems to be true of all the byelections and mayoral choices. Neither Momentum clictivists nor airbrushed SPADS are getting the gigs. I think the Labour party is quietly regenerating a genuine grass roots based party, distinct from Corbynism and New Labour. Not fully formed by 2020 but bodes well for the long term.
To give Corbyn his due, he has always been keen on local parties making their own choices.
There's another question related to this: if the next Labour leader is a non-Corbynite, how will Momentum and the pro-Corbyn people within Labour (e.g. NPXMP) react? Would they peacefully go along with it, or would there be more trouble?
As an aside, what progress has Corbyn and Momentum made recently in changing the party's rules and the NEC to their liking? It all seems to have gone a little quiet.
No progress at all. Most of the logistical and policy making stuff is done in meetings where people have to turn up and vote. Most new members do not do that. They are happy to vote via the internet but their involvement with Labour does not go beyond that. That means they have a block on the leadership and can elect six NEC members of the recommendation of Jon Lansmann, the millionaire who owns the Momentum database and controls its money, but no more. CLPs and regional groups are mainly in the hands of moderates. That's also why talk of deselect ion has all but disappeared.
Disagree.
In my Labour right stronghold, it is seen as a multi-year process. First efforts are being directed at ward level, where there has been gradual success, this year will be the tipping point where the CLPs start to be wrenched from the lunatic Blairite ultras (who have the temerity to call themselves moderates, despite being the most bizarrely ideological of all the member groups). You'll see this happening a fair bit at the end of this year. The labour hard right are far more organised, that is why it is taking a while. But the numbers against them, and time, will win out.
The cosy old duffers club here dont seem to realise that the safe establishment duopoly isnt coming back. If by nefarious means and establishment support the hard right get the party back, labour will die within a decade or two like its neoliberal formerly left counterparts on the continent.
What writers do you read who you normally disagree with... But you enjoy reading them and sometimes they even change your mind?
For me Daniel Hannan (shame he no longer has telegraph blog), John Redwood and Peter Hitchens.
Of non politician writers, Toby Young writes well, and while Theo Dalrymple is misanthropic and scathing of the WWC his pieces are well written and often with affection. The writers at Spiked-online are deliberately controversialist and contrary, so patchily good.
Mostly PB though. The standard of argument and dissection of evidence is far better than anywhere else that I know.
Thanks - I had not read Theo Dalrymple or spkied... I will check them out.
The knowledge and expertise on pb I find very impressive. Arguments i find often turn into insults although that might be that I started following more after/during brexit...
There's another question related to this: if the next Labour leader is a non-Corbynite, how will Momentum and the pro-Corbyn people within Labour (e.g. NPXMP) react? Would they peacefully go along with it, or would there be more trouble?
As an aside, what progress has Corbyn and Momentum made recently in changing the party's rules and the NEC to their liking? It all seems to have gone a little quiet.
No progress at all. Most of the logistical and policy making stuff is done in meetings where people have to turn up and vote. Most new members do not do that. They are happy to vote via the internet but their involvement with Labour does not go beyond that. That means they have a block on the leadership and can elect six NEC members of the recommendation of Jon Lansmann, the millionaire who owns the Momentum database and controls its money, but no more. CLPs and regional groups are mainly in the hands of moderates. That's also why talk of deselect ion has all but disappeared.
Disagree.
In my Labour right stronghold, it is seen as a multi-year process. First efforts are being directed at ward level, where there has been gradual success, this year will be the tipping point where the CLPs start to be wrenched from the lunatic Blairite ultras (who have the temerity to call themselves moderates, despite being the most bizarrely ideological of all the member groups). You'll see this happening a fair bit at the end of this year. The labour hard right are far more organised, that is why it is taking a while. But the numbers against them, and time, will win out.
Instructive post.
Labour so busy fighting amongst themselves that they'll not have a hope in a general election.
There's another question related to this: if the next Labour leader is a non-Corbynite, how will Momentum and the pro-Corbyn people within Labour (e.g. NPXMP) react? Would they peacefully go along with it, or would there be more trouble?
As an aside, what progress has Corbyn and Momentum made recently in changing the party's rules and the NEC to their liking? It all seems to have gone a little quiet.
No disappeared.
Disagree.
In my Labour right stronghold, it is seen as a multi-year process. First efforts are being directed at ward level, where there has been gradual success, this year will be the tipping point where the CLPs start to be wrenched from the lunatic Blairite ultras (who have the temerity to call themselves moderates, despite being the most bizarrely ideological of all the member groups). You'll see this happening a fair bit at the end of this year. The labour hard right are far more organised, that is why it is taking a while. But the numbers against them, and time, will win out.
The cosy old duffers club here dont seem to realise that the safe establishment duopoly isnt coming back. If by nefarious means and establishment support the hard right get the party back, labour will die within a decade or two like its neoliberal formerly left counterparts on the continent.
Of course - there will be some constituencies in which the self-indulgent hard left will take control. But, thankfully, they are a minority. Most committed Labour members - the ones that go to meetings and do the donkey work - still see the Tories as the party's opponents. As we know, the hard left's focus is on defeating the centre left.
There's another question related to this: if the next Labour leader is a non-Corbynite, how will Momentum and the pro-Corbyn people within Labour (e.g. NPXMP) react? Would they peacefully go along with it, or would there be more trouble?
As an aside, what progress has Corbyn and Momentum made recently in changing the party's rules and the NEC to their liking? It all seems to have gone a little quiet.
No progress at all. Most of the logistical and policy making stuff is done in meetings where people have to turn up and vote. Most new members do not do that. They are happy to vote via the internet but their involvement with Labour does not go beyond that. That means they have a block on the leadership and can elect six NEC members of the recommendation of Jon Lansmann, the millionaire who owns the Momentum database and controls its money, but no more. CLPs and regional groups are mainly in the hands of moderates. That's also why talk of deselect ion has all but disappeared.
Disagree.
In my Labour right stronghold, it is seen as a multi-year process. First efforts are being directed at ward level, where there has been gradual success, this year will be the tipping point where the CLPs start to be wrenched from the lunatic Blairite ultras (who have the temerity to call themselves moderates, despite being the most bizarrely ideological of all the member groups). You'll see this happening a fair bit at the end of this year. The labour hard right are far more organised, that is why it is taking a while. But the numbers against them, and time, will win out.
Instructive post.
Labour so busy fighting amongst themselves that they'll not have a hope in a general election.
Morning all,
Arguably it is all a form of psychological distraction, to avoid dealing with the major issue of what social democracy should be in the 21st century. Parties across Europe are grappling with this.
There's another question related to this: if the next Labour leader is a non-Corbynite, how will Momentum and the pro-Corbyn people within Labour (e.g. NPXMP) react? Would they peacefully go along with it, or would there be more trouble?
As an aside, what progress has Corbyn and Momentum made recently in changing the party's rules and the NEC to their liking? It all seems to have gone a little quiet.
No progress at all. Most of the logistical and policy making stuff is done in meetings where people have to turn up and vote. Most new members do not do that. They are happy to vote via the internet but their involvement with Labour does not go beyond that. That means they have a block on the leadership and can elect six NEC members of the recommendation of Jon Lansmann, the millionaire who owns the Momentum database and controls its money, but no more. CLPs and regional groups are mainly in the hands of moderates. That's also why talk of deselect ion has all but disappeared.
I think talk of deselection was always greatly overblown.
There's another question related to this: if the next Labour leader is a non-Corbynite, how will Momentum and the pro-Corbyn people within Labour (e.g. NPXMP) react? Would they peacefully go along with it, or would there be more trouble?
As an aside, what progress has Corbyn and Momentum made recently in changing the party's rules and the NEC to their liking? It all seems to have gone a little quiet.
No progress at all. Most of the logistical and policy making stuff is done in meetings where people have to turn up and vote. Most new members do not do that. They are happy to vote via the internet but their involvement with Labour does not go beyond that. That means they have a block on the leadership and can elect six NEC members of the recommendation of Jon Lansmann, the millionaire who owns the Momentum database and controls its money, but no more. CLPs and regional groups are mainly in the hands of moderates. That's also why talk of deselect ion has all but disappeared.
I think talk of deselection was always greatly overblown.
Also I think they just don't have to 'fight' MPs anymore as well. The Blairite/moderates have simply given up fighting, at least for now.
That could be even more worrying for Labour, they'll just drift.
Fantastic article - should be compulsive reading for Meeks, TSE, etc - enough to completely blow up so many closed minds
Ha, ha. A member of the Establishment Elite railing against other members of the Establishment Elite who do not agree with him. The referendum in a nutshell.
From said article: "Schools actually teach that Stalin’s five-year plans were a qualified success!"
There's another question related to this: if the next Labour leader is a non-Corbynite, how will Momentum and the pro-Corbyn people within Labour (e.g. NPXMP) react? Would they peacefully go along with it, or would there be more trouble?
As an aside, what progress has Corbyn and Momentum made recently in changing the party's rules and the NEC to their liking? It all seems to have gone a little quiet.
No progress at all. Most of the logistical and policy making stuff is done in meetings where people have to turn up and vote. Most new members do not do that. They are happy to vote via the internet but their involvement with Labour does not go beyond that. That means they have a block on the leadership and can elect six NEC members of the recommendation of Jon Lansmann, the millionaire who owns the Momentum database and controls its money, but no more. CLPs and regional groups are mainly in the hands of moderates. That's also why talk of deselect ion has all but disappeared.
Disagree.
In my Labour right stronghold, it is seen as a multi-year process. First efforts are being directed at ward level, where there has been gradual success, this year will be the tipping point where the CLPs start to be wrenched from the lunatic Blairite ultras (who have the temerity to call themselves moderates, despite being the most bizarrely ideological of all the member groups). You'll see this happening a fair bit at the end of this year. The labour hard right are far more organised, that is why it is taking a while. But the numbers against them, and time, will win out.
Instructive post.
Labour so busy fighting amongst themselves that they'll not have a hope in a general election.
Morning all,
Arguably it is all a form of psychological distraction, to avoid dealing with the major issue of what social democracy should be in the 21st century. Parties across Europe are grappling with this.
It's an interesting one. If you look at polls in places like Germany and Spain, the left combined is scoring 40% plus. The challenge in PR countries is how the centre left and far left might find an accommodation that will allow them to challenge the mainstream right for power.
Fantastic article - should be compulsive reading for Meeks, TSE, etc - enough to completely blow up so many closed minds
What an unpleasant and arrogant article. To save you going through the whole turgid piece read this paragraph and if you find it 'fantastic' like felix does read on...
"Why would anyone support Hillary Clinton — a ruthless, charmless Washington insider with socialist tendencies? Why do lawyers, churchmen, the BBC and, indeed, most educated people support the EU — an organisation as saturated with smug self-righteousness as it is with corruption; one which created the euro, which in turn has caused millions of people to be unemployed; an organisation which combines a yawning democratic deficit with incompetence over immigration and economic growth?"
Given the vast sums Hillary got paid by Goldman Sachs she was certainly no socialist, Sanders was the socialist candidate
You are a patriot, but not for this country. You serve a differnt master. That much is clear...Brexit is our cultural revolution, purging the opposition is now a necessary step. Distasteful though it may seem...The purge of the remainers has begun, they've proved they can't be trusted. Like you they serve a different master...Remainers...want to take any and all steps to stop us from leaving the EU...the government needs absolute loyalty from its employees. We cannot have people serving two masters...all British citizens have a duty to the state...Those who do not think so set themselves against this country and deserve ridicule and scorn...those who set themselves against the will of the British people...unwilling to do their duty to the state...would rather serve an outside master...They should be purged from the civil service, the BBC and other walks of public influence...The purge of the remainers has begun...Not as the state requires them, as the British people require them. They are setting themselves against the will of the British people. For that they need to be purged and replaced...we need absolute loyalty, not someone who is going to ...serve two masters. We...have a duty to make Brexit work...Absolute loyalty, nothing less...The purge of the remainers has begun...
There's another question related to this: if the next Labour leader is a non-Corbynite, how will Momentum and the pro-Corbyn people within Labour (e.g. NPXMP) react? Would they peacefully go along with it, or would there be more trouble?
As an aside, what progress has Corbyn and Momentum made recently in changing the party's rules and the NEC to their liking? It all seems to have gone a little quiet.
No progress at all. Most of the logistical and policy making stuff is done in meetings where people have to turn up and vote. Most new members do not do that. They are happy to vote via the internet but their involvement with Labour does not go beyond that. That means they have a block on the leadership and can elect six NEC members of the recommendation of Jon Lansmann, the millionaire who owns the Momentum database and controls its money, but no more. CLPs and regional groups are mainly in the hands of moderates. That's also why talk of deselect ion has all but disappeared.
Disagree.
In my Labour right stronghold, it is seen as a multi-year process. First efforts are being directed at ward level, where there has been gradual success, this year will be the tipping point where the CLPs start to be wrenched from the lunatic Blairite ultras (who have the temerity to call themselves moderates, despite being the most bizarrely ideological of all the member groups). You'll see this happening a fair bit at the end of this year. The labour hard right are far more organised, that is why it is taking a while. But the numbers against them, and time, will win out.
Instructive post.
Labour so busy fighting amongst themselves that they'll not have a hope in a general election.
Morning all,
Arguably it is all a form of psychological distraction, to avoid dealing with the major issue of what social democracy should be in the 21st century. Parties across Europe are grappling with this.
It's an interesting one. If you look at polls in places like Germany and Spain, the left combined is scoring 40% plus. The challenge in PR countries is how the centre left and far left might find an accommodation that will allow them to challenge the mainstream right for power.
Following the last German GE, a SDP/Green/Red coalition would have had an absolute majority over the CDU/CSU, but the SDP refused to contemplate this possibility and preferred to go into coalition as a junior partner with the CDU/CSU.
Fantastic article - should be compulsive reading for Meeks, TSE, etc - enough to completely blow up so many closed minds
Ha, ha. A member of the Establishment Elite railing against other members of the Establishment Elite who do not agree with him. The referendum in a nutshell.
From said article: "Schools actually teach that Stalin’s five-year plans were a qualified success!"
Evidence?
Ah the Spectator. Many, many years ago the Head of the Gramar school I attended arranged for sixth formers to have a reduced price subscription, ‘to encourage and enable discussion in Currnet Affairs” ..... which he took us for, once a week. I did, but as a Leftie, even then, it encouraged me to buy the Staggers!
I'm not persuaded by Starmer. But, there we are. Neither party is overflowing with talent, possibly because of the microscope the media puts them under.
What writers do you read who you normally disagree with... But you enjoy reading them and sometimes they even change your mind?
For me Daniel Hannan (shame he no longer has telegraph blog), John Redwood and Peter Hitchens.
Good question. I read Simon Jenkins despite usually disagreeing even with his non-political stuff, because he writes well, and Matthew Parris, because he's humane and not entirely predictable. On pb among the article writers, I always read David Herdson and Sean Fear, as well as Mike and TSE; others more intermittently. The people I avoid are the outraged sarcasm types, like that Spectator piece seems to be - as I don't share their assumptions, the sarcasm is lost on me, and even with people I agree with, the "my oppponents are idiots" meme soon gets dull. If they're witty (SeanT, Marina Hyde), then they're usually worth a read for fun, but not so thought-provoking.
On the question of how Momentum supporters would regard a non-Corbynist leader, it depends partly on the manner of victory. If it was on the lines of Southam's posts - the party has moved to the left but we need to focus on electability - that'd be OK with most of us. If it was more of a hard right explicitly anti-Corbyn challenge like Coyne's UNITE bid, we'd fight.
I'm not persuaded by Starmer. But, there we are. Neither party is overflowing with talent, possibly because of the microscope the media puts them under.
Starmer deserves to be hung out to dry for the Simon Walsh case alone.
What writers do you read who you normally disagree with... But you enjoy reading them and sometimes they even change your mind?
For me Daniel Hannan (shame he no longer has telegraph blog), John Redwood and Peter Hitchens.
Of non politician writers, Toby Young writes well, and while Theo Dalrymple is misanthropic and scathing of the WWC his pieces are well written and often with affection. The writers at Spiked-online are deliberately controversialist and contrary, so patchily good.
Mostly PB though. The standard of argument and dissection of evidence is far better than anywhere else that I know.
Thanks - I had not read Theo Dalrymple or spkied... I will check them out.
The knowledge and expertise on pb I find very impressive. Arguments i find often turn into insults although that might be that I started following more after/during brexit...
Theo Dalrymple is part of an elite establishment, but his work inAfrica and the Birmingham underclass as a forensic psychiatrist transcends this. While scathing of WWC and ghetto culture he has a warmth for the individuals. The other great medical writer of our times is Raymond Tallis, whose work is more medicine and philosophy focussed than political in a wider sense.
There's another question related to this: if the next Labour leader is a non-Corbynite, how will Momentum and the pro-Corbyn people within Labour (e.g. NPXMP) react? Would they peacefully go along with it, or would there be more trouble?
As an aside, what progress has Corbyn and Momentum made recently in changing the party's rules and the NEC to their liking? It all seems to have gone a little quiet.
No progress at all. Most of the logistical and policy making stuff is done in meetings where people have to turn up and vote. Most new members do not do that. They are happy to vote via the internet but their involvement with Labour does not go beyond that. That means they have a block on the leadership and can elect six NEC members of the recommendation of Jon Lansmann, the millionaire who owns the Momentum database and controls its money, but no more. CLPs and regional groups are mainly in the hands of moderates. That's also why talk of deselect ion has all but disappeared.
Disagree.
In my Labour right stronghold, it is seen as a multi-year process. First efforts are being directed at ward level, where there has been gradual success, this year will be the tipping point where the CLPs start to be wrenched from the lunatic Blairite ultras (who have the temerity to call themselves moderates, despite being the most bizarrely ideological of all the member groups). You'll see this happening a fair bit at the end of this year. The labour hard right are far more organised, that is why it is taking a while. But the numbers against them, and time, will win out.
Instructive post.
Labour so busy fighting amongst themselves that they'll not have a hope in a general election.
Morning all,
Arguably it is all a form of psychological distraction, to avoid dealing with the major issue of what social democracy should be in the 21st century. Parties across Europe are grappling with this.
It's an interesting one. If you look at polls in places like Germany and Spain, the left combined is scoring 40% plus. The challenge in PR countries is how the centre left and far left might find an accommodation that will allow them to challenge the mainstream right for power.
Following the last German GE, a SDP/Green/Red coalition would have had an absolute majority over the CDU/CSU, but the SDP refused to contemplate this possibility and preferred to go into coalition as a junior partner with the CDU/CSU.
Presumably because they knew that being attached with those parties would have harmed them in the long term.
Trying to prosecute a gay man for engaging in consensual activities with other guys. The CPS were too thick to realize that 'fisting' didn't mean using a clenched fist. The jury tossed the case out within about 90 minutes of sitting down to decide the verdict. IIRC @Charles of this parish knows him.
I'm not persuaded by Starmer. But, there we are. Neither party is overflowing with talent, possibly because of the microscope the media puts them under.
Starmer deserves to be hung out to dry for the Simon Walsh case alone.
A big problem is that if people rate politicians as less trustworthy than estate agents (ugh..), decent people will tend to be deterred from standing.
What writers do you read who you normally disagree with... But you enjoy reading them and sometimes they even change your mind?
For me Daniel Hannan (shame he no longer has telegraph blog), John Redwood and Peter Hitchens.
Of non politician writers, Toby Young writes well, and while Theo Dalrymple is misanthropic and scathing of the WWC his pieces are well written and often with affection. The writers at Spiked-online are deliberately controversialist and contrary, so patchily good.
Mostly PB though. The standard of argument and dissection of evidence is far better than anywhere else that I know.
Thanks - I had not read Theo Dalrymple or spkied... I will check them out.
The knowledge and expertise on pb I find very impressive. Arguments i find often turn into insults although that might be that I started following more after/during brexit...
Theo Dalrymple is part of an elite establishment, but his work inAfrica and the Birmingham underclass as a forensic psychiatrist transcends this. While scathing of WWC and ghetto culture he has a warmth for the individuals. The other great medical writer of our times is Raymond Tallis, whose work is more medicine and philosophy focussed than political in a wider sense.
Interesting. Have you read John Launers 'How not to be a doctor' collection of short articles? I found that eye opening and sometimes quite amusing although I didn't agree with all of his thinking.
What writers do you read who you normally disagree with... But you enjoy reading them and sometimes they even change your mind?
For me Daniel Hannan (shame he no longer has telegraph blog), John Redwood and Peter Hitchens.
Good question. I read Simon Jenkins despite usually disagreeing even with his non-political stuff, because he writes well, and Matthew Parris, because he's humane and not entirely predictable. On pb among the article writers, I always read David Herdson and Sean Fear, as well as Mike and TSE; others more intermittently. The people I avoid are the outraged sarcasm types, like that Spectator piece seems to be - as I don't share their assumptions, the sarcasm is lost on me, and even with people I agree with, the "my oppponents are idiots" meme soon gets dull. If they're witty (SeanT, Marina Hyde), then they're usually worth a read for fun, but not so thought-provoking.
On the question of how Momentum supporters would regard a non-Corbynist leader, it depends partly on the manner of victory. If it was on the lines of Southam's posts - the party has moved to the left but we need to focus on electability - that'd be OK with most of us. If it was more of a hard right explicitly anti-Corbyn challenge like Coyne's UNITE bid, we'd fight.
Thanks for the reply Nick.
However I'm intrigued by the concept of a "hard right explicitly anti-Corbyn challenge". Are you thinking that Labour will be taken over by BNP or UKIP types, or are you referring to the centre-left members and MPs who were once your colleagues?
If so, "Hard right" seems a very odd phrase to use.
Following the last German GE, a SDP/Green/Red coalition would have had an absolute majority over the CDU/CSU, but the SDP refused to contemplate this possibility and preferred to go into coalition as a junior partner with the CDU/CSU.
Yes. The position has evolved a bit since then, with regional partnerships which have gone quite well. The SPD reservation is now more about the risks of legitimising a competitor than about roots in communism, though the Left Party is itself divided between purists and realists.
Vanilla stuffed up and then their entire development team went on an extended Christmas break.
For a site like this you can operate at quite a decent scale with a very small number of people, so "their entire development team" could well be like one or two guys.
What writers do you read who you normally disagree with... But you enjoy reading them and sometimes they even change your mind?
For me Daniel Hannan (shame he no longer has telegraph blog), John Redwood and Peter Hitchens.
Polly Toynbee always includes three facts in her opinion pieces. They are often thought-provoking.
Norman Tebbit is unfailingly polite and rigorous in his thinking in a way that none of the three that you name achieve.
Julie Bindel has an entirely different world view from me that she articulates very clearly.
Interesting. I agree on Norman Tebbt entirely. Toynbee I find I often strongly sympathise but her style irritates me... Don't know Julie Bindel.
Hitchens is frequently rude and I find I don't read his drug pieces... But outside of that I think he makes some good points. Hannan is a master at presenting an argumenti think... And hiding gaps in logic - which makes him worth reading I think. His style and delivery are very entertaining too. I don't know that Redwood is often rude - and he is pretty knowledgeable I find.
< For a site like this you can operate at quite a decent scale with a very small number of people, so "their entire development team" could well be like one or two guys.
Perhaps but it's been my experience with software developers that as soon as they achieve some market penetration with their product they get into trouble because they simply don't have the capacity to support the growing user community.
All they are interested in is chasing new business rather than supporting existing customers who get disgruntled and as soon as the next "big thing" appears off they go.
Following the last German GE, a SDP/Green/Red coalition would have had an absolute majority over the CDU/CSU, but the SDP refused to contemplate this possibility and preferred to go into coalition as a junior partner with the CDU/CSU.
Yes. The position has evolved a bit since then, with regional partnerships which have gone quite well. The SPD reservation is now more about the risks of legitimising a competitor than about roots in communism, though the Left Party is itself divided between purists and realists.
The CDU will not do a deal with the AfD either while Merkel leads it
Off topic, that Real Housewives of Isis skit is superb.
A comedy that is actually doing a national service and, to me, feels like it justifies the TV licence fee I just paid for the whole year alone.
It got a few chuckles out of me. Very daring by the writers, impressed that the BBC aired it too. Well done to the channel controller for going all in.
The writer is Joceleyn Rubensteyn I think... surprisung to me as when I saw him on Daily Politics he seemed to be the most objectionable parody of a leftie, but I must say the housewives sketch made my laugh.
It's not brilliantly funny - perhaps the scenario is too dark - but it is very brave, and certainly amusing, and most unexpected from the BBC. Well done him.
It takes real guts to publicly mock Islam. Grayson Perry openly admitted that although he poked fun at other religions, he didn't at Islam because he didn't fancy 'getting his throat slit'
Like when Lee and Herring did the same joke "I don't mock Islam because I don't want to be killed" is a joke that's mocking followers of Islam.
Fantastic article - should be compulsive reading for Meeks, TSE, etc - enough to completely blow up so many closed minds
What arrant nonsense from both you and the article.
Ordinary people have been subjected to the same kind of indoctrination as the elite. They have just had less of it. They were in the hands of the propagandists for a shorter time and have been in the real world for longer. They do not read the ‘quality’ papers or listen to Radio 4. They watch Sky Sports and Strictly Come Dancing. For their understanding of the world, they rely more on what they see for themselves and experience.
I for one watch both Sky Sports and Strictly (I've even done PB threads on the latter regularly and the occasional PB thread on sports)
So it does confirm that I'm an ordinary working class (Northerner)
< For a site like this you can operate at quite a decent scale with a very small number of people, so "their entire development team" could well be like one or two guys.
Perhaps but it's been my experience with software developers that as soon as they achieve some market penetration with their product they get into trouble because they simply don't have the capacity to support the growing user community.
All they are interested in is chasing new business rather than supporting existing customers who get disgruntled and as soon as the next "big thing" appears off they go.
+1
Or they're part of a Beta project of a large company that is soon dropped (I'm looking at you, Google).
One tech startup I know employed a customers services engineer as the ?fifth? employee, after the two founders and two engineers. The two founders did the initial marketing themselves, but they realised they needed specific customer support for people trialling their product. Too often customer support becomes a marketing function, and is not performed well as a result.
Fantastic article - should be compulsive reading for Meeks, TSE, etc - enough to completely blow up so many closed minds
What arrant nonsense from both you and the article.
Ordinary people have been subjected to the same kind of indoctrination as the elite. They have just had less of it. They were in the hands of the propagandists for a shorter time and have been in the real world for longer. They do not read the ‘quality’ papers or listen to Radio 4. They watch Sky Sports and Strictly Come Dancing. For their understanding of the world, they rely more on what they see for themselves and experience.
I for one watch both Sky Sports and Strictly (I've even done PB threads on the latter regularly and the occasional PB thread on sports)
So it does confirm that I'm an ordinary working class (Northerner)
What writers do you read who you normally disagree with... But you enjoy reading them and sometimes they even change your mind?
For me Daniel Hannan (shame he no longer has telegraph blog), John Redwood and Peter Hitchens.
Simon Heffer, I disagree with him a lot, but I met him at a Tory conference a decade ago, and we had an entertaining discussion about Enoch Powell (Heffer considers Powell as our greatest ever politician)
Heffer had the grace to admit Powell was wrong on a few things, namely his view that people like me couldn't be British, or a war between the UK and USA, and his shameful behaviour on Thalidomide, which saw him ruin the lives of more children than your average paedophile.
Owen Jones writes well, I disagree with him a lot, but he does write well, and he does try reference his piece with facts, one of my biggest frustrations is when people do pieces and make grand assertions with no links/evidence.
The other thing about Simon Heffer, I also learned that because of events, he ended up being the Daily Telegraph's cricket correspondent for the 1990/91 Ashes tour.
Trying to prosecute a gay man for engaging in consensual activities with other guys. The CPS were too thick to realize that 'fisting' didn't mean using a clenched fist. The jury tossed the case out within about 90 minutes of sitting down to decide the verdict. IIRC @Charles of this parish knows him.
I knew Simon relatively well - served on a board with him - and the case has destroyed his life, his career and near bankrupted him. He's now left London to rebuild elsewhere.
The backstory was far worse. The police hated Simon because he was a hugely effective member of the Police Authority and they saw him as a block on their activities.
The CPS team originally threw out charges as without merit. The police went over their head to Mr. Starmer - who intervened personally to make sure the prosecution happened.
Fantastic article - should be compulsive reading for Meeks, TSE, etc - enough to completely blow up so many closed minds
What arrant nonsense from both you and the article.
Ordinary people have been subjected to the same kind of indoctrination as the elite. They have just had less of it. They were in the hands of the propagandists for a shorter time and have been in the real world for longer. They do not read the ‘quality’ papers or listen to Radio 4. They watch Sky Sports and Strictly Come Dancing. For their understanding of the world, they rely more on what they see for themselves and experience.
I for one watch both Sky Sports and Strictly (I've even done PB threads on the latter regularly and the occasional PB thread on sports)
So it does confirm that I'm an ordinary working class (Northerner)
It reminds me of Python's working class playwright.
Following the last German GE, a SDP/Green/Red coalition would have had an absolute majority over the CDU/CSU, but the SDP refused to contemplate this possibility and preferred to go into coalition as a junior partner with the CDU/CSU.
Yes. The position has evolved a bit since then, with regional partnerships which have gone quite well. The SPD reservation is now more about the risks of legitimising a competitor than about roots in communism, though the Left Party is itself divided between purists and realists.
The CDU will not do a deal with the AfD either while Merkel leads it
Yes. In general, parties perceived as extreme (or actually extreme) eventually get accepted as mainstream partners, familiairity leading to reduced fear and the prospect of power leading to reduced extremism - the Danish People's Party are now accepted as part of the governing majority, and I expect the AfD and the Left Party will both get there one day. Actually having arguably pro-Nazi pasts is still probably a permenent bar - the FN will take a long time to shake off Le Pen senior's view of gas chambers, though Marine is much smarter than her dead at avoiding that sort of thing.
The other thing about Simon Heffer, I also learned that because of events, he ended up being the Daily Telegraph's cricket correspondent for the 1990/91 Ashes tour.
What writers do you read who you normally disagree with... But you enjoy reading them and sometimes they even change your mind?
For me Daniel Hannan (shame he no longer has telegraph blog), John Redwood and Peter Hitchens.
Good question. I read Simon Jenkins despite usually disagreeing even with his non-political stuff, because he writes well, and Matthew Parris, because he's humane and not entirely predictable. On pb among the article writers, I always read David Herdson and Sean Fear, as well as Mike and TSE; others more intermittently. The people I avoid are the outraged sarcasm types, like that Spectator piece seems to be - as I don't share their assumptions, the sarcasm is lost on me, and even with people I agree with, the "my oppponents are idiots" meme soon gets dull. If they're witty (SeanT, Marina Hyde), then they're usually worth a read for fun, but not so thought-provoking.
On the question of how Momentum supporters would regard a non-Corbynist leader, it depends partly on the manner of victory. If it was on the lines of Southam's posts - the party has moved to the left but we need to focus on electability - that'd be OK with most of us. If it was more of a hard right explicitly anti-Corbyn challenge like Coyne's UNITE bid, we'd fight.
Thanks for the reply Nick.
However I'm intrigued by the concept of a "hard right explicitly anti-Corbyn challenge". Are you thinking that Labour will be taken over by BNP or UKIP types, or are you referring to the centre-left members and MPs who were once your colleagues?
If so, "Hard right" seems a very odd phrase to use.
Just quoting this post to jog Nick's memory. I also am interested in an answer to this question.
Despite offering free tuition, Scotland has the worst record than anywhere else in the UK when it comes to getting students from poorer backgrounds into university, says new report.
The Access to Scotland report from social mobility charity The Sutton Trust has found there to be a narrowing of the gap between rich and poor young people entering higher education (HE) across the UK in recent years.
However, despite improvements, young disadvantaged Scottish people are four times less likely to go to university than their wealthier counterparts. In England the same figure is 2.4, while in Wales and Northern Ireland, poorer students are three times more likely to do so.
All good fun but I'd wonder if the English figures are skewed by poor immigrant families sending their offspring to university rather than any great rise in WWC enrolment, as well as the the greater role of non-university HE north of the border.
There are almost certainly a number of factors involved - over which governments have limited control - but the SNP's "progressive" (sic) bung to middle class parents with free University tuition is certainly not helping poorer Scots.
Given Wales/NI have had similar levels of immigration to Scotland - but are still doing substantially better (and not that far off England) I suspect while 'ambitious immigrant families' is playing a part in England's relative success, its far from the major factor.
Fantastic article - should be compulsive reading for Meeks, TSE, etc - enough to completely blow up so many closed minds
What arrant nonsense from both you and the article.
Ordinary people have been subjected to the same kind of indoctrination as the elite. They have just had less of it. They were in the hands of the propagandists for a shorter time and have been in the real world for longer. They do not read the ‘quality’ papers or listen to Radio 4. They watch Sky Sports and Strictly Come Dancing. For their understanding of the world, they rely more on what they see for themselves and experience.
I for one watch both Sky Sports and Strictly (I've even done PB threads on the latter regularly and the occasional PB thread on sports)
So it does confirm that I'm an ordinary working class (Northerner)
It reminds me of Python's working class playwright.
I thought you were talking about the computer programming language for a second, which completely confused me.
Trying to prosecute a gay man for engaging in consensual activities with other guys. The CPS were too thick to realize that 'fisting' didn't mean using a clenched fist. The jury tossed the case out within about 90 minutes of sitting down to decide the verdict. IIRC @Charles of this parish knows him.
I knew Simon relatively well - served on a board with him - and the case has destroyed his life, his career and near bankrupted him. He's now left London to rebuild elsewhere.
The backstory was far worse. The police hated Simon because he was a hugely effective member of the Police Authority and they saw him as a block on their activities.
The CPS team originally threw out charges as without merit. The police went over their head to Mr. Starmer - who intervened personally to make sure the prosecution happened.
Keir Starmer should be severely criticized not just for this case but for his prosecution of various journalists under an ancient law. Pretty much all the cases were thrown out on appeal and the appeal court was pretty scathing about the prosecutions. The last thing we need is a Labour leader who does not understand the importance of free speech.
Trying to prosecute a gay man for engaging in consensual activities with other guys. The CPS were too thick to realize that 'fisting' didn't mean using a clenched fist. The jury tossed the case out within about 90 minutes of sitting down to decide the verdict. IIRC @Charles of this parish knows him.
I knew Simon relatively well - served on a board with him - and the case has destroyed his life, his career and near bankrupted him. He's now left London to rebuild elsewhere.
The backstory was far worse. The police hated Simon because he was a hugely effective member of the Police Authority and they saw him as a block on their activities.
The CPS team originally threw out charges as without merit. The police went over their head to Mr. Starmer - who intervened personally to make sure the prosecution happened.
Keir Starmer should be severely criticized not just for this case but for his prosecution of various journalists under an ancient law. Pretty much all the cases were thrown out on appeal and the appeal court was pretty scathing about the prosecutions. The last thing we need is a Labour leader who does not understand the importance of free speech.
And his US style press conferences about cases. Just awful.
Fantastic article - should be compulsive reading for Meeks, TSE, etc - enough to completely blow up so many closed minds
What arrant nonsense from both you and the article.
Ordinary people have been subjected to the same kind of indoctrination as the elite. They have just had less of it. They were in the hands of the propagandists for a shorter time and have been in the real world for longer. They do not read the ‘quality’ papers or listen to Radio 4. They watch Sky Sports and Strictly Come Dancing. For their understanding of the world, they rely more on what they see for themselves and experience.
I for one watch both Sky Sports and Strictly (I've even done PB threads on the latter regularly and the occasional PB thread on sports)
So it does confirm that I'm an ordinary working class (Northerner)
It reminds me of Python's working class playwright.
I can never be bothered talking too much about my own background because those odd people who are interested in it have already decided on all the salient features. Identity politics of the right is just as ugly and even less helpful than that of the left.
Despite offering free tuition, Scotland has the worst record than anywhere else in the UK when it comes to getting students from poorer backgrounds into university, says new report.
The Access to Scotland report from social mobility charity The Sutton Trust has found there to be a narrowing of the gap between rich and poor young people entering higher education (HE) across the UK in recent years.
However, despite improvements, young disadvantaged Scottish people are four times less likely to go to university than their wealthier counterparts. In England the same figure is 2.4, while in Wales and Northern Ireland, poorer students are three times more likely to do so.
All good fun but I'd wonder if the English figures are skewed by poor immigrant families sending their offspring to university rather than any great rise in WWC enrolment, as well as the the greater role of non-university HE north of the border.
There are almost certainly a number of factors involved - over which governments have limited control - but the SNP's "progressive" (sic) bung to middle class parents with free University tuition is certainly not helping poorer Scots.
Given Wales/NI have had similar levels of immigration to Scotland - but are still doing substantially better (and not that far off England) I suspect while 'ambitious immigrant families' is playing a part in England's relative success, its far from the major factor.
According to the figures in the story, overall Scotland has a higher participation rate when non-university HE colleges are included. It is not evident that fees have anything to do with it. If the Scottish government so wished, it could at the stroke of a pen turn some colleges into universities which might fix the statistics but what would have changed?
It's obvious what will happen. Scotland and Wales will each be counted as one area, and England will be Balkanised. Not only that, migrants aren't bloody trees. You can't plant them in Yorkshire and be surprised if they turn up in London.
Fantastic article - should be compulsive reading for Meeks, TSE, etc - enough to completely blow up so many closed minds
What arrant nonsense from both you and the article.
Ordinary people have been subjected to the same kind of indoctrination as the elite. They have just had less of it. They were in the hands of the propagandists for a shorter time and have been in the real world for longer. They do not read the ‘quality’ papers or listen to Radio 4. They watch Sky Sports and Strictly Come Dancing. For their understanding of the world, they rely more on what they see for themselves and experience.
I for one watch both Sky Sports and Strictly (I've even done PB threads on the latter regularly and the occasional PB thread on sports)
So it does confirm that I'm an ordinary working class (Northerner)
It reminds me of Python's working class playwright.
I can never be bothered talking too much about my own background because those odd people who are interested in it have already decided on all the salient features. Identity politics of the right is just as ugly and even less helpful than that of the left.
People who are desperate to define themselves as this or that are usually poor souls who lack any real identity.
Trying to prosecute a gay man for engaging in consensual activities with other guys. The CPS were too thick to realize that 'fisting' didn't mean using a clenched fist. The jury tossed the case out within about 90 minutes of sitting down to decide the verdict. IIRC @Charles of this parish knows him.
Nick Cohen:
The poor old jurors had a lot to put up with, what with one thing and another – the prosecution passing them implements for sticking down penises and an expert witness explaining: "It may take some time for someone to take a whole arm into their rectum."
But, unlike Boris Johnson, they knew that what consenting adults did with their johnsons was no business of the state. The jury concluded that, however obscene the sexual practices on display, they were not as obscene as the notion that the CPS could poke its nose into the nation's bedrooms. It acquitted and proved that the ruin of Simon Walsh's career, the costs of a case that had forced him to sell his flat and the public money spent on bringing him to trial had been a colossal waste.
In America, Bernie is having fun reminding GOP senators that president-elect Trump campaigned on "no cuts to Social Security, Medicare & Medicaid". Can any twitter gurus confirm Trump does not follow Nick Clegg?
Fantastic article - should be compulsive reading for Meeks, TSE, etc - enough to completely blow up so many closed minds
What arrant nonsense from both you and the article.
Ordinary people have been subjected to the same kind of indoctrination as the elite. They have just had less of it. They were in the hands of the propagandists for a shorter time and have been in the real world for longer. They do not read the ‘quality’ papers or listen to Radio 4. They watch Sky Sports and Strictly Come Dancing. For their understanding of the world, they rely more on what they see for themselves and experience.
I for one watch both Sky Sports and Strictly (I've even done PB threads on the latter regularly and the occasional PB thread on sports)
So it does confirm that I'm an ordinary working class (Northerner)
It reminds me of Python's working class playwright.
I have so many different labels ascribed to me, I find it amusing, it is a reflection of how society works.
So people go for the I'm more prolier than thou, me I prefer je suis unique approach.
Despite offering free tuition, Scotland has the worst record than anywhere else in the UK when it comes to getting students from poorer backgrounds into university, says new report.
The Access to Scotland report from social mobility charity The Sutton Trust has found there to be a narrowing of the gap between rich and poor young people entering higher education (HE) across the UK in recent years.
However, despite improvements, young disadvantaged Scottish people are four times less likely to go to university than their wealthier counterparts. In England the same figure is 2.4, while in Wales and Northern Ireland, poorer students are three times more likely to do so.
All good fun but I'd wonder if the English figures are skewed by poor immigrant families sending their offspring to university rather than any great rise in WWC enrolment, as well as the the greater role of non-university HE north of the border.
There are almost certainly a number of factors involved - over which governments have limited control - but the SNP's "progressive" (sic) bung to middle class parents with free University tuition is certainly not helping poorer Scots.
Given Wales/NI have had similar levels of immigration to Scotland - but are still doing substantially better (and not that far off England) I suspect while 'ambitious immigrant families' is playing a part in England's relative success, its far from the major factor.
Despite offering free tuition, Scotland has the worst record than anywhere else in the UK when it comes to getting students from poorer backgrounds into university, says new report.
The Access to Scotland report from social mobility charity The Sutton Trust has found there to be a narrowing of the gap between rich and poor young people entering higher education (HE) across the UK in recent years.
However, despite improvements, young disadvantaged Scottish people are four times less likely to go to university than their wealthier counterparts. In England the same figure is 2.4, while in Wales and Northern Ireland, poorer students are three times more likely to do so.
All good fun but I'd wonder if the English figures are skewed by poor immigrant families sending their offspring to university rather than any great rise in WWC enrolment, as well as the the greater role of non-university HE north of the border.
There are almost certainly a number of factors involved - over which governments have limited control - but the SNP's "progressive" (sic) bung to middle class parents with free University tuition is certainly not helping poorer Scots.
Given Wales/NI have had similar levels of immigration to Scotland - but are still doing substantially better (and not that far off England) I suspect while 'ambitious immigrant families' is playing a part in England's relative success, its far from the major factor.
According to the figures in the story, overall Scotland has a higher participation rate when non-university HE colleges are included. It is not evident that fees have anything to do with it. If the Scottish government so wished, it could at the stroke of a pen turn some colleges into universities which might fix the statistics but what would have changed?
That would not suit Carlotta's poisoned view and allow her to say SNPBAD. In Scotland many people do their courses in Colleges as you say but bigots like Carlotta are experts at lying by using half of the statistics to prove otherwise. SNP choose not to make many fake Uni's just to get some useless statistics, Tories do not like that.
Fantastic article - should be compulsive reading for Meeks, TSE, etc - enough to completely blow up so many closed minds
What arrant nonsense from both you and the article.
Ordinary people have been subjected to the same kind of indoctrination as the elite. They have just had less of it. They were in the hands of the propagandists for a shorter time and have been in the real world for longer. They do not read the ‘quality’ papers or listen to Radio 4. They watch Sky Sports and Strictly Come Dancing. For their understanding of the world, they rely more on what they see for themselves and experience.
I for one watch both Sky Sports and Strictly (I've even done PB threads on the latter regularly and the occasional PB thread on sports)
So it does confirm that I'm an ordinary working class (Northerner)
It reminds me of Python's working class playwright.
I have so many different labels ascribed to me, I find it amusing, it is a reflection of how society works.
So people go for the I'm more prolier than thou, me I prefer je suis unique approach.
I prefer the 'I'm a bit unique' approach 'cos it riles the grammar Nazis.
*Ferk, I'm automatically using the Vanilla quote method, talk about Pavlov's dog.
Mr. Charles, I hope your friend's in better shape now.
It sounds utterly shocking. Shame my gut instinct about Starmer turned out to be right.
He's starting again in a new country with no savings.
But he's not in prison.
So I suppose it depends what you mean by "better shape"
I was very struck by the false drunk rape claim guy - he couldn't use his degree or identity here and felt the only way to escape was to move/change his name/disappear. He moved to Malaysia - his intv was heart-breaking.
Fantastic article - should be compulsive reading for Meeks, TSE, etc - enough to completely blow up so many closed minds
What arrant nonsense from both you and the article.
Ordinary people have been subjected to the same kind of indoctrination as the elite. They have just had less of it. They were in the hands of the propagandists for a shorter time and have been in the real world for longer. They do not read the ‘quality’ papers or listen to Radio 4. They watch Sky Sports and Strictly Come Dancing. For their understanding of the world, they rely more on what they see for themselves and experience.
I for one watch both Sky Sports and Strictly (I've even done PB threads on the latter regularly and the occasional PB thread on sports)
So it does confirm that I'm an ordinary working class (Northerner)
It reminds me of Python's working class playwright.
I have so many different labels ascribed to me, I find it amusing, it is a reflection of how society works.
So people go for the I'm more prolier than thou, me I prefer je suis unique approach.
I prefer the 'I'm a bit unique' approach 'cos it riles the grammar Nazis.
*Ferk, I'm automatically using the Vanilla quote method, talk about Pavlov's dog.
Gives me an excuse to post this joke
I went to the library and asked for a book on Pavlov's dog and Shrodinger's Cat,
The librarian said "That rings a bell but I don't know if it's here or not."
In case you'd missed it, we are exactly one-third of the way through the parliament today, assuming it goes to the scheduled 7/5/20 date: 609 days since the last election, 1218 to the next one. You'd expect that after six leadership elections among the big four parties, a change of PM and a major referendum loss by the govt, the remaining two-thirds might not be quite so active. We'll see.
Mr. Eagles, sounds like Heisenberg's Uncertainty Principle.
"Do you know how fast you were going?"
"No, officer, but I could tell you my precise location at the time."
Edited extra bit: Mr. Herdson, averages can lead to weird results. Like the average person is a woman with fewer than two arms, fewer than two legs, and most of one testicle.
In case you'd missed it, we are exactly one-third of the way through the parliament today, assuming it goes to the scheduled 7/5/20 date: 609 days since the last election, 1218 to the next one. You'd expect that after six leadership elections among the big four parties, a change of PM and a major referendum loss by the govt, the remaining two-thirds might not be quite so active. We'll see.
As the saying goes in the markets, just because a stock has gone down 90%, it doesn't mean it can't go down another 90%.
However I'm intrigued by the concept of a "hard right explicitly anti-Corbyn challenge". Are you thinking that Labour will be taken over by BNP or UKIP types, or are you referring to the centre-left members and MPs who were once your colleagues?
If so, "Hard right" seems a very odd phrase to use.
Just quoting this post to jog Nick's memory. I also am interested in an answer to this question.
Nick?
I was referring to the old right of the party (obviously not right-wing in terms of national politics), who were heavily into trade union feuds with the hard left in the 60s and 70s - they are not so numerous these days outside some trade union battles but it's a recognisable type, very different from the centre-right of Tony Blair and in style more like a mirror image of Militant.
But no, I don't expect anyone like that to win the leadership, and was merely saying that this was the only sort of leader who most on the left wouldn't put up with at all.
On a different subject, there's an overview of potential Labour Copeland candidates here:
Despite offering free tuition, Scotland has the worst record than anywhere else in the UK when it comes to getting students from poorer backgrounds into university, says new report.
The Access to Scotland report from social mobility charity The Sutton Trust has found there to be a narrowing of the gap between rich and poor young people entering higher education (HE) across the UK in recent years.
However, despite improvements, young disadvantaged Scottish people are four times less likely to go to university than their wealthier counterparts. In England the same figure is 2.4, while in Wales and Northern Ireland, poorer students are three times more likely to do so.
All good fun but I'd wonder if the English figures are skewed by poor immigrant families sending their offspring to university rather than any great rise in WWC enrolment, as well as the the greater role of non-university HE north of the border.
There are almost certainly a number of factors involved - over which governments have limited control - but the SNP's "progressive" (sic) bung to middle class parents with free University tuition is certainly not helping poorer Scots.
Given Wales/NI have had similar levels of immigration to Scotland - but are still doing substantially better (and not that far off England) I suspect while 'ambitious immigrant families' is playing a part in England's relative success, its far from the major factor.
According to the figures in the story, overall Scotland has a higher participation rate when non-university HE colleges are included. It is not evident that fees have anything to do with it. If the Scottish government so wished, it could at the stroke of a pen turn some colleges into universities which might fix the statistics but what would have changed?
That would not suit Carlotta's poisoned view and allow her to say SNPBAD. In Scotland many people do their courses in Colleges as you say but bigots like Carlotta are experts at lying by using half of the statistics to prove otherwise. SNP choose not to make many fake Uni's just to get some useless statistics, Tories do not like that.
None so blind as will not see.....
The gap between the richest and the poorest students getting into university in Scotland is growing, it has emerged.
Mr. Eagles, that joke probably would've been quite good a century ago.
Similarly, there was a proposed Conservative election poster in 2010 with Darling and Brown pictured and a tagline of Division Of Labour. Nice idea but simply doesn't work because most people won't get the reference.
In case you'd missed it, we are exactly one-third of the way through the parliament today, assuming it goes to the scheduled 7/5/20 date: 609 days since the last election, 1218 to the next one. You'd expect that after six leadership elections among the big four parties, a change of PM and a major referendum loss by the govt, the remaining two-thirds might not be quite so active. We'll see.
As the saying goes in the markets, just because a stock has gone down 90%, it doesn't mean it can't go down another 90%.
True. You can see a scenario where at least three of those four parties change again. Farron looks safe, if only because starting from such a low base, it's very hard for him to fail to advance (though he could easily advance in the wrong direction). All sorts of interesting things could happen, from a second SIndy vote to another recession to Brexit delayed (I can't see reversed being an option), to Labour splitting, to UKIP falling apart.
Alternatively, you could see things rumble along with lots of chatter but nothing too unexpected.
That said, the Brexit-date does mean at least one major change. Either the UK will leave the EU or the process will change substantially from what everyone's expecting at the moment.
However I'm intrigued by the concept of a "hard right explicitly anti-Corbyn challenge". Are you thinking that Labour will be taken over by BNP or UKIP types, or are you referring to the centre-left members and MPs who were once your colleagues?
If so, "Hard right" seems a very odd phrase to use.
Just quoting this post to jog Nick's memory. I also am interested in an answer to this question.
Nick?
I was referring to the old right of the party (obviously not right-wing in terms of national politics), who were heavily into trade union feuds with the hard left in the 60s and 70s - they are not so numerous these days outside some trade union battles but it's a recognisable type, very different from the centre-right of Tony Blair and in style more like a mirror image of Militant.
But no, I don't expect anyone like that to win the leadership, and was merely saying that this was the only sort of leader who most on the left wouldn't put up with at all.
On a different subject, there's an overview of potential Labour Copeland candidates here:
Holliday and Sherriff look quite strong from this description. I gather further applications are still coming in.
Thanks Nick
I'm not going to pretend I am alive to the nuances of internal Labour Party politics (to me "mirror image of militant" does not signify anyone in the Labour Party), but the explanation makes sense in the context of a momentum member/supporter so is appreciated.
With so many "types" in the Labour Party I do wonder when or if ever the conditions will be right to mount a challenge to the Conservatives, that said.
Fantastic article - should be compulsive reading for Meeks, TSE, etc - enough to completely blow up so many closed minds
Ha, ha. A member of the Establishment Elite railing against other members of the Establishment Elite who do not agree with him. The referendum in a nutshell.
From said article: "Schools actually teach that Stalin’s five-year plans were a qualified success!"
Evidence?
Sorry, couldn't let that one pass. My older daughter has just done GCSE history and I can confirm that is absolutely true. See this revision guide, for example: https://getrevising.co.uk/revision-notes/stalins_dictatorship_five_year_plans_and Basically, the gist is that yes, he might have had a few people shot but, hey, industrial production increased and there were increased opportunities for women, too.
The "recycling in French" bit is true, too. Ok, my daughter did Spanish instead of French but only the other day she was commenting on what a waste of time it had been as they were taught to talk and write about things like recycling, but not more useful things like asking for and giving directions and ordering food and drink in a cafe.
Comments
If she only wins Haut de France by that margin, she probably loses the Presidential race by close to twenty points.
Mostly PB though. The standard of argument and dissection of evidence is far better than anywhere else that I know.
Do you support charmless insiders? Support the smug self-righteousness of Eurocrats? Agree with mass youth unemployment in the South and the suppressed German currency and unthinking German monetary policy that promotes it?
If any of the above then I can understand why you're not quite getting the point...
Labour is done. Put a fork in it....
To give Corbyn his due, he has always been keen on local parties making their own choices.
In my Labour right stronghold, it is seen as a multi-year process. First efforts are being directed at ward level, where there has been gradual success, this year will be the tipping point where the CLPs start to be wrenched from the lunatic Blairite ultras (who have the temerity to call themselves moderates, despite being the most bizarrely ideological of all the member groups). You'll see this happening a fair bit at the end of this year. The labour hard right are far more organised, that is why it is taking a while. But the numbers against them, and time, will win out.
The cosy old duffers club here dont seem to realise that the safe establishment duopoly isnt coming back. If by nefarious means and establishment support the hard right get the party back, labour will die within a decade or two like its neoliberal formerly left counterparts on the continent.
The knowledge and expertise on pb I find very impressive. Arguments i find often turn into insults although that might be that I started following more after/during brexit...
Labour so busy fighting amongst themselves that they'll not have a hope in a general election.
Arguably it is all a form of psychological distraction, to avoid dealing with the major issue of what social democracy should be in the 21st century. Parties across Europe are grappling with this.
I'm just going to say, that as an outsider looking in, this is not how your party comes across to people on the outside of it.
TOP TIP: You might need to work on addressing this.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/01/03/ukip-volunteer-faces-20-years-jail-admitting-attempted-dark/
That could be even more worrying for Labour, they'll just drift.
Evidence?
I did, but as a Leftie, even then, it encouraged me to buy the Staggers!
I'm not persuaded by Starmer. But, there we are. Neither party is overflowing with talent, possibly because of the microscope the media puts them under.
On the question of how Momentum supporters would regard a non-Corbynist leader, it depends partly on the manner of victory. If it was on the lines of Southam's posts - the party has moved to the left but we need to focus on electability - that'd be OK with most of us. If it was more of a hard right explicitly anti-Corbyn challenge like Coyne's UNITE bid, we'd fight.
I could crush a grape.
The CPS were too thick to realize that 'fisting' didn't mean using a clenched fist.
The jury tossed the case out within about 90 minutes of sitting down to decide the verdict.
IIRC @Charles of this parish knows him.
Well, the most charitable view of that is that it's bloody incompetent.
I found that eye opening and sometimes quite amusing although I didn't agree with all of his thinking.
However I'm intrigued by the concept of a "hard right explicitly anti-Corbyn challenge". Are you thinking that Labour will be taken over by BNP or UKIP types, or are you referring to the centre-left members and MPs who were once your colleagues?
If so, "Hard right" seems a very odd phrase to use.
Norman Tebbit is unfailingly polite and rigorous in his thinking in a way that none of the three that you name achieve.
Julie Bindel has an entirely different world view from me that she articulates very clearly.
Toynbee I find I often strongly sympathise but her style irritates me...
Don't know Julie Bindel.
Hitchens is frequently rude and I find I don't read his drug pieces... But outside of that I think he makes some good points. Hannan is a master at presenting an argumenti think... And hiding gaps in logic - which makes him worth reading I think. His style and delivery are very entertaining too. I don't know that Redwood is often rude - and he is pretty knowledgeable I find.
All they are interested in is chasing new business rather than supporting existing customers who get disgruntled and as soon as the next "big thing" appears off they go.
I mentioned rising fuel prices yesterday:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-38505980
Interesting to see where this goes and if it has any political impact during 2017.
Ordinary people have been subjected to the same kind of indoctrination as the elite. They have just had less of it. They were in the hands of the propagandists for a shorter time and have been in the real world for longer. They do not read the ‘quality’ papers or listen to Radio 4. They watch Sky Sports and Strictly Come Dancing. For their understanding of the world, they rely more on what they see for themselves and experience.
I for one watch both Sky Sports and Strictly (I've even done PB threads on the latter regularly and the occasional PB thread on sports)
So it does confirm that I'm an ordinary working class (Northerner)
Or they're part of a Beta project of a large company that is soon dropped (I'm looking at you, Google).
One tech startup I know employed a customers services engineer as the ?fifth? employee, after the two founders and two engineers. The two founders did the initial marketing themselves, but they realised they needed specific customer support for people trialling their product. Too often customer support becomes a marketing function, and is not performed well as a result.
The startup is doing reasonably well.
Heffer had the grace to admit Powell was wrong on a few things, namely his view that people like me couldn't be British, or a war between the UK and USA, and his shameful behaviour on Thalidomide, which saw him ruin the lives of more children than your average paedophile.
Owen Jones writes well, I disagree with him a lot, but he does write well, and he does try reference his piece with facts, one of my biggest frustrations is when people do pieces and make grand assertions with no links/evidence.
He really does love his cricket.
The backstory was far worse. The police hated Simon because he was a hugely effective member of the Police Authority and they saw him as a block on their activities.
The CPS team originally threw out charges as without merit. The police went over their head to Mr. Starmer - who intervened personally to make sure the prosecution happened.
Why it could turn into the crunch point of any talks and what it might look like
https://www.ft.com/content/0455c2e8-d27c-11e6-9341-7393bb2e1b51
Nick?
Given Wales/NI have had similar levels of immigration to Scotland - but are still doing substantially better (and not that far off England) I suspect while 'ambitious immigrant families' is playing a part in England's relative success, its far from the major factor.
It sounds utterly shocking. Shame my gut instinct about Starmer turned out to be right.
Comparing him to a paedophile is very poor form, but...
As for writers I disagree with but read, none really. I often find some of them unreadable.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-38510628
It's obvious what will happen. Scotland and Wales will each be counted as one area, and England will be Balkanised. Not only that, migrants aren't bloody trees. You can't plant them in Yorkshire and be surprised if they turn up in London.
Who would stick a label on themselves?
The poor old jurors had a lot to put up with, what with one thing and another – the prosecution passing them implements for sticking down penises and an expert witness explaining: "It may take some time for someone to take a whole arm into their rectum."
But, unlike Boris Johnson, they knew that what consenting adults did with their johnsons was no business of the state. The jury concluded that, however obscene the sexual practices on display, they were not as obscene as the notion that the CPS could poke its nose into the nation's bedrooms. It acquitted and proved that the ruin of Simon Walsh's career, the costs of a case that had forced him to sell his flat and the public money spent on bringing him to trial had been a colossal waste.
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2012/aug/12/nick-cohen-simon-walsh-cps-pornography-prosecution
http://time.com/4622703/bernie-sanders-donald-trump-senate-tweet/
But he's not in prison.
So I suppose it depends what you mean by "better shape"
So people go for the I'm more prolier than thou, me I prefer je suis unique approach.
SNP choose not to make many fake Uni's just to get some useless statistics, Tories do not like that.
*Ferk, I'm automatically using the Vanilla quote method, talk about Pavlov's dog.
http://falserapesociety.blogspot.co.uk/2009/11/how-to-escape-stigma-of-false-rape.html
I went to the library and asked for a book on Pavlov's dog and Shrodinger's Cat,
The librarian said "That rings a bell but I don't know if it's here or not."
"Do you know how fast you were going?"
"No, officer, but I could tell you my precise location at the time."
Edited extra bit: Mr. Herdson, averages can lead to weird results. Like the average person is a woman with fewer than two arms, fewer than two legs, and most of one testicle.
But no, I don't expect anyone like that to win the leadership, and was merely saying that this was the only sort of leader who most on the left wouldn't put up with at all.
On a different subject, there's an overview of potential Labour Copeland candidates here:
http://labourlist.org/2017/01/exclusive-the-runners-and-riders-in-contest-to-be-labours-copeland-candidate/
Holliday and Sherriff look quite strong from this description. I gather further applications are still coming in.
The gap between the richest and the poorest students getting into university in Scotland is growing, it has emerged.
http://www.scotsman.com/news/politics/gap-between-rich-and-poor-scots-at-universities-growing-1-4325179
Similarly, there was a proposed Conservative election poster in 2010 with Darling and Brown pictured and a tagline of Division Of Labour. Nice idea but simply doesn't work because most people won't get the reference.
Alternatively, you could see things rumble along with lots of chatter but nothing too unexpected.
That said, the Brexit-date does mean at least one major change. Either the UK will leave the EU or the process will change substantially from what everyone's expecting at the moment.
I'm not going to pretend I am alive to the nuances of internal Labour Party politics (to me "mirror image of militant" does not signify anyone in the Labour Party), but the explanation makes sense in the context of a momentum member/supporter so is appreciated.
With so many "types" in the Labour Party I do wonder when or if ever the conditions will be right to mount a challenge to the Conservatives, that said.
I must admit Viz is too classy for me.
NEW THREAD
The "recycling in French" bit is true, too. Ok, my daughter did Spanish instead of French but only the other day she was commenting on what a waste of time it had been as they were taught to talk and write about things like recycling, but not more useful things like asking for and giving directions and ordering food and drink in a cafe.