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politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » The FINAL local elections of 2016

SystemSystem Posts: 12,150
edited December 2016 in General

imagepoliticalbetting.com » Blog Archive » The FINAL local elections of 2016

December 21st 2016 Cranleigh West (Con defence) on Waverley Result of council at last election (2015): Conservatives 53, Farnham Residents 3, Independent 1 (Conservative majority of 49) Result of ward at last election (2015): Emboldened denotes elected Conservatives 1,269, 1,155 (56%) Liberal Democrats 685, 515 (30%) Labour 321, 192 (14%) EU Referendum Result: REMAIN 44,341 (58%) LEAVE 31,601 (42%) on a turnout of 82% Candidates duly nominated: Richard Cole (Lib Dem), Rosaleen Egan (UKIP), Liz Townsend (Con) Result: Conservative 377 (59% +3%), Liberal Democrat 187 (29% -1%), United Kingdom Independence Party 78 (12%, no candidate in 2015) Conservative HOLD with a majority of 190 (30%) on a swing of 2% from Liberal Democrat to Conservative

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Comments

  • Moses_Moses_ Posts: 4,865
    1st by gum
  • AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340
    edited December 2016
    Aylesham doesn't seem to offer much in the way of candidates. That's two in a row with just two candidates.
  • FPT I don't really give a stuff what anyone calls me. It's striking how quite a few Leavers can dish it out but cry foul at anything that challenges their worldview.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 95,994
    edited December 2016
    We shall miss you until the new year, council by-elections.

    Something about the ward name Hedge End immediately made me think it was a LD seat. Of course, Eastleigh seems to be among the most LD friendly areas of the country. Isn't a majority of 32 low for that council?

    Re name calling, a lot of people claim to be happy to take it and so are free to dish it out, but from what I can see, rarely justify such a claim regarding the former and demonstrate incredible sensitivity to even minor criticism. Easier to admit most people don't like taking it, so just don't dish it out.
  • AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    60 inmates have taken control of a wing at a prison on the Isle of Sheppey.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 42,472
    As ever, thanks Harry.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,922
    What is the Leave version of Remoaner? Is there one (using a play on the word leave I mean)?
  • FPT:

    @Mortimer

    So you don't have anything to say to any of my points? Only that your experience of other views reigns supreme? What a shame.

    Re you're last point: well that is based on your assumption that Labour Party and Momentum represent all of the British Left. I'd have thought that being on this site, and seeing many on the left be critical of Corbyn and Mometum, alongside criticism of Corbyn from other parts of the left in the media - such as The New Statesmen - would have showed you otherwise.
  • mattmatt Posts: 3,789
    AndyJS said:

    60 inmates have taken control of a wing at a prison on the Isle of Sheppey.

    They can have the whole island and we can wall it off. Consider it as having wider societal benefits.
  • AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    edited December 2016
    Just checked and Copeland did indeed register the lowest Alliance share of the vote in England in 1987 with 9.1%, and the 10th lowest in the UK:

    Copeland: 9.1%
    Blaenau Gwent: 8.9%
    Rhondda: 8.2%
    Merthyr Tydfil & Rhymney: 8.1%
    Motherwell North: 8.0%
    Glasgow Springburn: 7.9%
    Angus East: 7.8%
    Glasgow Provan: 7.2%
    Ynys Mon: 6.7%
    Dundee East: 4.6%
  • Beverley_CBeverley_C Posts: 6,256
    FTP: Mike said:

    Can we stop the terms like "remoaner" and other derogatory terms to describe one side or another in EU debate.
    I do not use the terms myself, but they have been applied to me often enough (not on PB that I am aware of) that I have decided to apply for my Irish passport.

    For someone raised as an Ulster protestant that is one heck of a step to take.
  • MarkSeniorMarkSenior Posts: 4,699
    edited December 2016
    One of this weeks 3 UKIP councillors leaving the sinking ship will see an interesting 4 way battle early next year in Aylesbury DC Elmhurst ward
    Result in 2015 2 seats
    LD 729/652
    UKIP 666/567
    Lab 632/516
    Con 604/496
    Green 220/131
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,037
    AndyJS said:

    Just checked and Copeland did indeed register the lowest Alliance share of the vote in England in 1987 with 9.1%, and the 10th lowest in the UK:

    Copeland: 9.1%
    Blaenau Gwent: 8.9%
    Rhondda: 8.2%
    Merthyr Tydfil & Rhymney: 8.1%
    Motherwell North: 8.0%
    Glasgow Springburn: 7.9%
    Angus East: 7.8%
    Glasgow Provan: 7.2%
    Ynys Mon: 6.7%
    Dundee East: 4.6%

    Incredible to think there was just a single lost deposit.
  • brokenwheelbrokenwheel Posts: 3,352
    edited December 2016

    Aylesham doesn't seem to offer much in the way of candidates. That's two in a row with just two candidates.

    This one may provide a preview for Copeland, it's an ex-mining town like Whitehaven.
  • MTimTMTimT Posts: 7,034
    Another good piece on the US election:

    http://www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/2016/12/22/clinton_loss_shows_the_importance_of_being_there_132627.html

    This number surprised me - 85,000 voters in Michigan alone voted for bottom of the ticket candidates but not for any of the Presidential candidates. That is an awful lot of people who bothered to vote, who could not bring themselves to select any of the presidential candidates.
  • In this weeks Whitehaven News the Reed resignation is the lead but looks to have come after the initial print deadline. It's very editorially independent but is noticibly neutral in it's lead merely reporting the facts.

    The West Cumbria edition of the daily News and Star runs a proper front page on it but carries the Reed spin uncritically. He is " heartbroken " and it is " the worst day of his life. " An odd description of freely choosing to take a better paid job. The News and Star knows what proportion of local and buying comes from Big Nuclear so the puff piece on the MAP for Sellafield leaving to work for Sellafield is no surprise.

    Whether electors buy their MP sodding off for more cash as " the worst day of my life " remains to be seen.

    The timeline is explained as well. He starts his new job on 1/2/17 so the end of January resignation preserves his salary and allows a brief period where he can campaign as the incumbent alongside the new candidate.

  • On tonight's Border TV News the Labour representative on the By-election package was Cllr Tim Knowles who's the Chair of the Cumbria CC Labour Group. He would tick a number for boxes as a candidate. He's a shill for Sellafield, he's a bit dim so wouldn't challenge Sue Hayman for the new seat in 2020, he's part of the local labour establishment but crucially a county not a borough councillor. So he's detached from the local meltdown that led to the Mayoral referendum then loss.

    The give away for me was he was wearing a clearly new and illfitting suit and red tie which had clearly been bought in haste.
  • Andrew Marr has attempted to answer Alastair's question:

    http://www.newstatesman.com/politics/uk/2016/12/optimists-guide-brexit
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 28,346

    FTP: Mike said:


    Can we stop the terms like "remoaner" and other derogatory terms to describe one side or another in EU debate.
    I do not use the terms myself, but they have been applied to me often enough (not on PB that I am aware of) that I have decided to apply for my Irish passport.

    For someone raised as an Ulster protestant that is one heck of a step to take.


    Bit like when you changed your EUref vote because you didn't like Nige. Sensitive bordering on unhinged.
  • dr_spyndr_spyn Posts: 11,300
    Happy Christmas to all posters, lurkers, thread writers and OGH.
  • @YellowSubmarine Your comments, observations and reports are really appreciated. Thanks YS and keep it up.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,037

    Andrew Marr has attempted to answer Alastair's question:

    http://www.newstatesman.com/politics/uk/2016/12/optimists-guide-brexit

    As a free-marketeer, I find the idea of 'industry bodies' given 20,000 visas here and there to be a genuinely frightening idea.
  • AnneJGPAnneJGP Posts: 3,076

    In this weeks Whitehaven News the Reed resignation is the lead but looks to have come after the initial print deadline. It's very editorially independent but is noticibly neutral in it's lead merely reporting the facts.

    The West Cumbria edition of the daily News and Star runs a proper front page on it but carries the Reed spin uncritically. He is " heartbroken " and it is " the worst day of his life. " An odd description of freely choosing to take a better paid job. The News and Star knows what proportion of local and buying comes from Big Nuclear so the puff piece on the MAP for Sellafield leaving to work for Sellafield is no surprise.

    Whether electors buy their MP sodding off for more cash as " the worst day of my life " remains to be seen.

    The timeline is explained as well. He starts his new job on 1/2/17 so the end of January resignation preserves his salary and allows a brief period where he can campaign as the incumbent alongside the new candidate.

    Just been reading an article on Labour-Uncut about this. Seems inclined to take it at its face value, and it sounds reasonable enough to me.

    http://labour-uncut.co.uk/2016/12/21/its-christmas-and-family-comes-first-even-for-mps/

    (May have already been linked)

    Good evening, everyone.
  • CookieCookie Posts: 13,734
    @YellowSubmarine - are you local to Whitehaven?
  • tysontyson Posts: 6,117
    @OGH and Yellow Submarine

    For poster of the year I think I tipped AndyJS and Pong...this is a political site after all.

    For the person who best embodies all those things I love and admire about humanity....then Yellow Submarine. Joff and Roger.....deserve a mention.


    In my Xmas bonhomie, I am still in no mood for Brexit and Trump wankers mind...... I have absolutely no time in my life for such horrible nihilism....
  • isamisam Posts: 41,118
    tyson said:

    @OGH and Yellow Submarine

    For poster of the year I think I tipped AndyJS and Pong...this is a political site after all.

    For the person who best embodies all those things I love and admire about humanity....then Yellow Submarine. Joff and Roger.....deserve a mention.


    In my Xmas bonhomie, I am still in no mood for Brexit and Trump wankers mind...... I have absolutely no time in my life for such horrible nihilism....

    There you go @RobD, the counter to "Remoaners" is "Wankers"
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,037
    For poster of the year, I nominate rcs1000. He's insightful, interesting, intelligent, well mannered, and will only ban those posters who don't immediately agree with this post.
  • surbitonsurbiton Posts: 13,549
    isam said:

    tyson said:

    @OGH and Yellow Submarine

    For poster of the year I think I tipped AndyJS and Pong...this is a political site after all.

    For the person who best embodies all those things I love and admire about humanity....then Yellow Submarine. Joff and Roger.....deserve a mention.


    In my Xmas bonhomie, I am still in no mood for Brexit and Trump wankers mind...... I have absolutely no time in my life for such horrible nihilism....

    There you go @RobD, the counter to "Remoaners" is "Wankers"
    That is sad. I only use that expression for Bankers.
  • tysontyson Posts: 6,117
    @Isam

    Wankers is really the very best thing I could say about you and your ilk....if I could say what I felt then I doubt very much I would be allowed here.

    Brexit, Trump, Grillo, Le Pen, Wilders... and your nihilistic followers....you have made the civilised world that much less civilised. Well done. 2016 is a good year for the dark side.
  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 25,365

    FPT I don't really give a stuff what anyone calls me. It's striking how quite a few Leavers can dish it out but cry foul at anything that challenges their worldview.

    Alistair I think youre yummy
  • surbitonsurbiton Posts: 13,549
    rcs1000 said:

    For poster of the year, I nominate rcs1000. He's insightful, interesting, intelligent, well mannered, and will only ban those posters who don't immediately agree with this post.

    Seconded.
  • rcs1000 said:

    Andrew Marr has attempted to answer Alastair's question:

    http://www.newstatesman.com/politics/uk/2016/12/optimists-guide-brexit

    As a free-marketeer, I find the idea of 'industry bodies' given 20,000 visas here and there to be a genuinely frightening idea.
    I'm relatively relaxed about it.
  • FPT I don't really give a stuff what anyone calls me. It's striking how quite a few Leavers can dish it out but cry foul at anything that challenges their worldview.

    Alistair I think youre yummy
    Of course I am. But I'm already taken.
  • isamisam Posts: 41,118
    tyson said:

    @Isam

    Wankers is really the very best thing I could say about you and your ilk....if I could say what I felt then I doubt very much I would be allowed here.

    Brexit, Trump, Grillo, Le Pen, Wilders... and your nihilistic followers....you have made the civilised world that much less civilised. Well done. 2016 is a good year for the dark side.

    I reckon you'd get away with it :)
  • MortimerMortimer Posts: 14,122
    tyson said:

    @OGH and Yellow Submarine

    For poster of the year I think I tipped AndyJS and Pong...this is a political site after all.

    For the person who best embodies all those things I love and admire about humanity....then Yellow Submarine. Joff and Roger.....deserve a mention.


    In my Xmas bonhomie, I am still in no mood for Brexit and Trump wankers mind...... I have absolutely no time in my life for such horrible nihilism....

    Merry Christmas to you too.
  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 25,365

    FTP: Mike said:


    Can we stop the terms like "remoaner" and other derogatory terms to describe one side or another in EU debate.
    I do not use the terms myself, but they have been applied to me often enough (not on PB that I am aware of) that I have decided to apply for my Irish passport.

    For someone raised as an Ulster protestant that is one heck of a step to take.


    youre on catch up Beverley

    Ive had one for 20 years and have fitted all the kids out with one, it's proved surprisingly useful over the years

    Failte :-)
  • surbitonsurbiton Posts: 13,549

    FTP: Mike said:


    Can we stop the terms like "remoaner" and other derogatory terms to describe one side or another in EU debate.
    I do not use the terms myself, but they have been applied to me often enough (not on PB that I am aware of) that I have decided to apply for my Irish passport.

    For someone raised as an Ulster protestant that is one heck of a step to take.


    I can assure you, you are not the only one !
  • rcs1000 said:

    For poster of the year, I nominate rcs1000. He's insightful, interesting, intelligent, well mannered, and will only ban those posters who don't immediately agree with this post.

    :+1: - Handsome devil too...
  • surbitonsurbiton Posts: 13,549
    RobD said:

    What is the Leave version of Remoaner? Is there one (using a play on the word leave I mean)?

    It can't be Lover. They hate everyone.
  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 25,365
    surbiton said:

    FTP: Mike said:


    Can we stop the terms like "remoaner" and other derogatory terms to describe one side or another in EU debate.
    I do not use the terms myself, but they have been applied to me often enough (not on PB that I am aware of) that I have decided to apply for my Irish passport.

    For someone raised as an Ulster protestant that is one heck of a step to take.
    I can assure you, you are not the only one !

    why Surby I didnt know you were an Ulster Prod, but now you say it you have a touch of the Paisleys about you.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,037

    rcs1000 said:

    Andrew Marr has attempted to answer Alastair's question:

    http://www.newstatesman.com/politics/uk/2016/12/optimists-guide-brexit

    As a free-marketeer, I find the idea of 'industry bodies' given 20,000 visas here and there to be a genuinely frightening idea.
    I'm relatively relaxed about it.
    It basically means that big companies get visas for bringing people in to the country, while smaller companies get shut out. It's corporatism.
  • Hugo!!!!!

    Happy Christmas on that bombshell....

    Easiest trivia question ever... what is Ronaldo's son called.... clue = it's suggestive of ego
  • RogerRoger Posts: 19,854
    NigelB

    "I prefer Leavite"

    They begat the Philistines.....
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 37,280
    @Tyson,

    Hopefully, 2017 will be even more fun than 2016 has been.
  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670
    What the fuck has Stanstead done to domestic arrivals? reduced to a corridor at the arse end of no where and you have to go outside to get into the main building.
  • AnneJGPAnneJGP Posts: 3,076
    Roger said:

    NigelB

    "I prefer Leavite"

    They begat the Philistines.....

    I have always understood that the Philistines were not ... err ... philistines.
  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 25,365
    Roger said:

    NigelB

    "I prefer Leavite"

    They begat the Philistines.....

    LOL

    excellent
  • welshowlwelshowl Posts: 4,464
    Real philistines spell it with an f.
  • Alistair said:

    What the fuck has Stanstead done to domestic arrivals? reduced to a corridor at the arse end of no where and you have to go outside to get into the main building.

    I'm currently in Stansted departures waiting on a delayed flight. I feel your pain.
  • tysontyson Posts: 6,117
    @Mortimer....I bet you don't tell many of your Oxford chums about your affection for Trump and Brexit


    @SeanFear....I always viewed you as an odd and rather endearing residue of the anachronistic right. Now you are in power...I bet even you are worried, because you never really expected it.

    As said Happy Xmas to all...except Brexit, Corbynistas, badger cullers, climate change deniers, Trump, Grillo, Le Pen, Wilders....I hope your turkey is burnt to a crisp, and something worse happens to you all.....
  • isamisam Posts: 41,118

    Alistair said:

    What the fuck has Stanstead done to domestic arrivals? reduced to a corridor at the arse end of no where and you have to go outside to get into the main building.

    I'm currently in Stansted departures waiting on a delayed flight. I feel your pain.
    Halo Fizz?
  • Ishmael_ZIshmael_Z Posts: 8,981
    Is it impossible for both sides to accept that the vast majority of voters felt they were being asked a difficult question which they never asked to be asked, but which they felt duty bound to answer to the best of their ability in the way which was best for the country?

    Silly question, of course. But assuming good faith in one's opponents saves a lot of stress and bad temper, and is perhaps something we could experiment with for a week or two now that it is that Goodwill-to-all-men time of the year..
  • isamisam Posts: 41,118
    SeanT said:
    I was bored so I wrote a blog

    If you like clumsy metaphors, and transparent allegories, fill your boots

    http://aboutasfarasdelgados.blogspot.co.uk/
  • tysontyson Posts: 6,117
    @Ismael Z

    Assuming good faith in one's opponents....is that how you expected the Jews to feel as they were led to the gas chambers.?

    I really despise beyond anything the gloating Brexit and Trumpers for saying such nonsense. You won.


    The tyranny of the majority........it has won, and we all will suffer....

    So please, please, do not look for any kind of rapprochement from people like me. I hate you all the more for asking for it.....
  • Ishmael_ZIshmael_Z Posts: 8,981
    A typically understated and measured contribution, tyson, marred only by wrong end of the stickery: I voted remain.

    season's greetings.
  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670
    edited December 2016

    Alistair said:

    What the fuck has Stanstead done to domestic arrivals? reduced to a corridor at the arse end of no where and you have to go outside to get into the main building.

    I'm currently in Stansted departures waiting on a delayed flight. I feel your pain.
    Flight was delayed an hour and 15 as well. You have my full sympathies.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 81,813
    edited December 2016
    Conspiracy or cock-up in Germany...they have form for both said the man known locally as David.
  • World's oldest bank moves closer to bail-out after €5bn cash call fails
    http://news.sky.com/story/shares-in-worlds-oldest-bank-suspended-again-on-funding-worries-10703877
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,037

    World's oldest bank moves closer to bail-out after €5bn cash call fails
    http://news.sky.com/story/shares-in-worlds-oldest-bank-suspended-again-on-funding-worries-10703877

    Not a great summary. A bail-out, of some description, was always on the cards. This is beginning to look more like Northern Rock style nationalisation.
  • SpeedySpeedy Posts: 12,100

    Conspiracy or cock-up in Germany...they have form for both said the man known locally as David.

    I say both.

    The German Government probably tried to do a conspiracy to cover it up but they failed.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 38,696
    rcs1000 said:

    World's oldest bank moves closer to bail-out after €5bn cash call fails
    http://news.sky.com/story/shares-in-worlds-oldest-bank-suspended-again-on-funding-worries-10703877

    Not a great summary. A bail-out, of some description, was always on the cards. This is beginning to look more like Northern Rock style nationalisation.
    I still don't see how that will get state aid approval.
  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 25,365
    SeanT said:

    Talking of neologisms, is there a word for the regret that follows ridiculous indulgence and pointless luxury?

    Because I'm feeling it over that £1000 lunch-for-two at the Savoy.

    Obscene vulgarity. Could have fed a village for a year on that money.

    I am actually feeling slightly ashamed.

    Meekery
  • SeanT said:
    It suggests that the mentality of the German authorities hasn't changed since last New Year's Eve.

    It also aligns with your anecdote of a mate's anecdote of the German media.

    Remember that Germans are always very good at obeying orders.
  • SpeedySpeedy Posts: 12,100
    tyson said:

    @Isam

    Wankers is really the very best thing I could say about you and your ilk....if I could say what I felt then I doubt very much I would be allowed here.

    Brexit, Trump, Grillo, Le Pen, Wilders... and your nihilistic followers....you have made the civilised world that much less civilised. Well done. 2016 is a good year for the dark side.

    I think 2016 was a weird year but so far so good (fingers crossed).

    There was much less bullsh!t this year than in the past 30 years, people are more direct and to the point (like you are for instance), which is progress for the civilized world.
  • rcs1000 said:

    AndyJS said:

    Just checked and Copeland did indeed register the lowest Alliance share of the vote in England in 1987 with 9.1%, and the 10th lowest in the UK:

    Copeland: 9.1%
    Blaenau Gwent: 8.9%
    Rhondda: 8.2%
    Merthyr Tydfil & Rhymney: 8.1%
    Motherwell North: 8.0%
    Glasgow Springburn: 7.9%
    Angus East: 7.8%
    Glasgow Provan: 7.2%
    Ynys Mon: 6.7%
    Dundee East: 4.6%

    Incredible to think there was just a single lost deposit.
    And then only because they were squeezed in an SNP-Lab marginal.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 38,696
    SeanT said:

    Speedy said:

    Conspiracy or cock-up in Germany...they have form for both said the man known locally as David.

    I say both.

    The German Government probably tried to do a conspiracy to cover it up but they failed.
    There are too many oddities and non sequiturs surrounding this case. It took them a whole day to find the terrorist's ID in the cabin of the truck? Really? And this is because they had to wait for the sniffer dogs to go in first?

    Pff. I don't believe it.
    Spiegel reported that German intelligence had intercepted a call between the perpetrator and a known Islamist where he offered to carry out a terrorist attack for them. Over here that would be 7-10 years for intent. In Germany it seems as if they didn't act because arresting one of Mrs Merkel's migrants is too embarrassing for the government.
  • SeanT said:

    Talking of neologisms, is there a word for the regret that follows ridiculous indulgence and pointless luxury?

    Because I'm feeling it over that £1000 lunch-for-two at the Savoy.

    Obscene vulgarity. Could have fed a village for a year on that money.

    I am actually feeling slightly ashamed.

    #couldhaveboughtafifthofaHuntsmanforthat
  • Prisoner Officers have rejected their Unions recommendation of a new deal with the government including allowing them to retire at 65 rather than 68.

    This is the thin edge of the wedge as Unions will now push for reduction in retirement age across the public sector at enormous cost and inequality
  • SpeedySpeedy Posts: 12,100
    edited December 2016

    SeanT said:
    It suggests that the mentality of the German authorities hasn't changed since last New Year's Eve.

    It also aligns with your anecdote of a mate's anecdote of the German media.

    Remember that Germans are always very good at obeying orders.
    "Remember that Germans are always very good at obeying orders."

    That is why they always vote for the person who orders them around already, same as Japan, which results in a very sclerotic and antiquated approach to things.

    "I order you to Vote for me"
    "As you wish Master, ect "

    Germans have voted for a change of government only 3 times in 57 years.
    The roof has to fall in and then some for the germans to vote for change.
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    rcs1000 said:

    World's oldest bank moves closer to bail-out after €5bn cash call fails
    http://news.sky.com/story/shares-in-worlds-oldest-bank-suspended-again-on-funding-worries-10703877

    Not a great summary. A bail-out, of some description, was always on the cards. This is beginning to look more like Northern Rock style nationalisation.
    4 ---> 3

    But a sad way to move up the ranking.
  • SpeedySpeedy Posts: 12,100
    SeanT said:

    SeanT said:
    It suggests that the mentality of the German authorities hasn't changed since last New Year's Eve.

    It also aligns with your anecdote of a mate's anecdote of the German media.

    Remember that Germans are always very good at obeying orders.
    It's all very fishy. The German police and intel services are clearly inept in several ways, but I do not believe their incompetence stretches to "not finding the terrorist's ID lying on the floor of the cabin" until a whole day after the attack.
    They probably did find it pretty quickly, but didn't want to publish it for political reasons because it would embarrass their Dear Leader in an election season.
  • Speedy said:

    SeanT said:
    It suggests that the mentality of the German authorities hasn't changed since last New Year's Eve.

    It also aligns with your anecdote of a mate's anecdote of the German media.

    Remember that Germans are always very good at obeying orders.
    "Remember that Germans are always very good at obeying orders."

    That is why they always vote for the person who orders them around already, same as Japan, which results in a very sclerotic and antiquated approach to things.

    "I order you to Vote for me"
    "As you wish Master, ect "

    Germans have voted for a change of government only 3 times in 57 years.
    And changes in German governments are by shifts in coalitions, sometimes even shifts in grand coalitions.

    Not the decisive rejections of government as seen in the UK, USA, France or indeed most other countries.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,037
    MaxPB said:

    rcs1000 said:

    World's oldest bank moves closer to bail-out after €5bn cash call fails
    http://news.sky.com/story/shares-in-worlds-oldest-bank-suspended-again-on-funding-worries-10703877

    Not a great summary. A bail-out, of some description, was always on the cards. This is beginning to look more like Northern Rock style nationalisation.
    I still don't see how that will get state aid approval.
    There's no prohibition on state aid for banks, there is merely a requirement that subordinated debt holders are bailed in*.

    Italy will argue that it's deposit protection scheme covers savings products issued by banks up to 100,000, as these products are indistinguishable from time deposits.

    But it's all irrelevant anyway because the ECB has no right to preemptively prevent a government buying the shares of a bank (i.e., bailing it out), only to challenge it after the fact. And all the ECB can do is issue a fine, by which point the Italian government will be the only people capable of paying the fine, as they'll be the owners of BMPS.

    * i.e., their debt is converted to equity
  • Beverley_CBeverley_C Posts: 6,256

    FTP: Mike said:


    Can we stop the terms like "remoaner" and other derogatory terms to describe one side or another in EU debate.
    I do not use the terms myself, but they have been applied to me often enough (not on PB that I am aware of) that I have decided to apply for my Irish passport.

    For someone raised as an Ulster protestant that is one heck of a step to take.
    Bit like when you changed your EUref vote because you didn't like Nige. Sensitive bordering on unhinged.

    I do what I feel is right rather than blindly follow stuff. When conditions change I re-evaluate.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,037
    Charles said:

    rcs1000 said:

    World's oldest bank moves closer to bail-out after €5bn cash call fails
    http://news.sky.com/story/shares-in-worlds-oldest-bank-suspended-again-on-funding-worries-10703877

    Not a great summary. A bail-out, of some description, was always on the cards. This is beginning to look more like Northern Rock style nationalisation.
    4 ---> 3

    But a sad way to move up the ranking.
    Who are numbers one and two?

    (Of course, BMPS may be recapitalised and refloated, but I suspect it'll be broken up and BNP will take the best bits.)
  • Beverley_CBeverley_C Posts: 6,256


    I do not use the terms myself, but they have been applied to me often enough (not on PB that I am aware of) that I have decided to apply for my Irish passport.

    For someone raised as an Ulster protestant that is one heck of a step to take.

    youre on catch up Beverley

    Ive had one for 20 years and have fitted all the kids out with one, it's proved surprisingly useful over the years

    Failte :-)

    I am indeed on catch-up. I was always proud of being British but that is getting more and more tarnished with the act of collective madness known as Brexit. Since I have options I intend to ensure that I utilise them.

    Nollaig shona dhuit :-)
  • Beverley_CBeverley_C Posts: 6,256
    surbiton said:

    I can assure you, you are not the only one !

    Yes. That is becoming apparent. On the plus side, the form is absurdly simple. Thankfully...

  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,484
    Scrapheap_as_was:

    "Easiest trivia question ever... what is Ronaldo's son called.... clue = it's suggestive of ego"

    I was slightly surprised it wasn't Jesus.....
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,484
    I am happy to be known as one of the Leavers of Power.....
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    rcs1000 said:

    Charles said:

    rcs1000 said:

    World's oldest bank moves closer to bail-out after €5bn cash call fails
    http://news.sky.com/story/shares-in-worlds-oldest-bank-suspended-again-on-funding-worries-10703877

    Not a great summary. A bail-out, of some description, was always on the cards. This is beginning to look more like Northern Rock style nationalisation.
    4 ---> 3

    But a sad way to move up the ranking.
    Who are numbers one and two?

    (Of course, BMPS may be recapitalised and refloated, but I suspect it'll be broken up and BNP will take the best bits.)
    Dutch national bank & Swedish national bank. Forget the order.
  • MortimerMortimer Posts: 14,122
    edited December 2016
    tyson said:

    @Mortimer....I bet you don't tell many of your Oxford chums about your affection for Trump and Brexit


    @SeanFear....I always viewed you as an odd and rather endearing residue of the anachronistic right. Now you are in power...I bet even you are worried, because you never really expected it.

    As said Happy Xmas to all...except Brexit, Corbynistas, badger cullers, climate change deniers, Trump, Grillo, Le Pen, Wilders....I hope your turkey is burnt to a crisp, and something worse happens to you all.....

    Au contraire tyson - amongst my Oxford chums are more Brexiteers than you'd think. And those who are Remainers are bright enough to see the other POV too.

    No affection for Trump. Just thought he was going to win. This is a betting site, after all.

    One of the top moments of the year for me was Bobajobabobajobabobajob pestering those who thought Trump would win for a call. Only to see him win.
  • Deleaver us from the EU?
  • foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548
    edited December 2016
    I see the armchair police are out in force tonight.
  • HurstLlamaHurstLlama Posts: 9,098
    @Beverly_C

    Just out of interest, what advantages do you think your possession of an Irish Passport gives you?
  • MonksfieldMonksfield Posts: 2,803

    surbiton said:

    I can assure you, you are not the only one !

    Yes. That is becoming apparent. On the plus side, the form is absurdly simple. Thankfully...

    I'm waiting for Sindy myself..
  • nunununu Posts: 6,024
    edited December 2016
    @Beverley, I'm sorry for the stupid tone some have taken. I hope you don't feel the need to move to Ireland over this, I think (and this is not an excuse) a lot of people are frustrated about how slow the process is. Just give as good as you get at the same time as staying on the high road.

    And try to avoid Brexit discussion over Christmas! Happy Christmas.


    Good will to all men, remain or Leave!
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    edited December 2016
    Charles said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Charles said:

    rcs1000 said:

    World's oldest bank moves closer to bail-out after €5bn cash call fails
    http://news.sky.com/story/shares-in-worlds-oldest-bank-suspended-again-on-funding-worries-10703877

    Not a great summary. A bail-out, of some description, was always on the cards. This is beginning to look more like Northern Rock style nationalisation.
    4 ---> 3

    But a sad way to move up the ranking.
    Who are numbers one and two?

    (Of course, BMPS may be recapitalised and refloated, but I suspect it'll be broken up and BNP will take the best bits.)
    Dutch national bank & Swedish national bank. Forget the order.
    Correction: wiki has deleted the Dutch from the ranking, so it is now the Swedish Riksbank and then my brother's shop.

    (Of course Berenberg try to claim they date from 1590, but as the founders sold then a hundred years ago it's really a new firm).
  • foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548

    @Beverly_C

    Just out of interest, what advantages do you think your possession of an Irish Passport gives you?

    One of my nephews (father British, mother EU citizen, born London, never lived in an EU country other than UK) has just been accepted for a fee free place at Edinburgh University courtesy of his dual citizenship. Fox jr is rather jealous.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,922
    Charles said:



    Charles said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Charles said:

    rcs1000 said:

    World's oldest bank moves closer to bail-out after €5bn cash call fails
    http://news.sky.com/story/shares-in-worlds-oldest-bank-suspended-again-on-funding-worries-10703877

    Not a great summary. A bail-out, of some description, was always on the cards. This is beginning to look more like Northern Rock style nationalisation.
    4 ---> 3

    But a sad way to move up the ranking.
    Who are numbers one and two?

    (Of course, BMPS may be recapitalised and refloated, but I suspect it'll be broken up and BNP will take the best bits.)
    Dutch national bank & Swedish national bank. Forget the order.
    Correction: wiki has deleted the Dutch from the ranking, so it is now the Swedish Riksbank and then my brother's shop.

    (Of course Berenberg try to claim they date from 1590, but as the founders sold then a hundred years ago it's really a new firm).
    Of course the owner of the second oldest company in the world is a relative of someone on PB!
  • Beverley_CBeverley_C Posts: 6,256
    nunu said:

    @Beverley, I'm sorry for the stupid tone some have taken. I hope you don't feel the need to move to Ireland over this,

    I am not contemplating moving there :smile:
    nunu said:

    I think (and this is not an excuse) a lot of people are frustrated about how slow the process is. Just give as good as you get at the same time as staying on the high road.

    And try to avoid Brexit discussion over Christmas! Happy Christmas.

    It is slow and that adds to frustration on all sides. I can probably avoid the discussions by taking a break from PB (again)

    Merry Xmas

  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,922

    @Beverly_C

    Just out of interest, what advantages do you think your possession of an Irish Passport gives you?

    One of my nephews (father British, mother EU citizen, born London, never lived in an EU country other than UK) has just been accepted for a fee free place at Edinburgh University courtesy of his dual citizenship. Fox jr is rather jealous.
    When we leave the EU I do wonder if they'll just keep charging non-Scots.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 81,813
    edited December 2016
    Mail reporting on another publication that has pictures of the man known locally as Dave pottering around , visiting his local mosque etc etc etc hours AFTER the attack.
  • foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548
    kle4 said:

    We shall miss you until the new year, council by-elections.

    Something about the ward name Hedge End immediately made me think it was a LD seat. Of course, Eastleigh seems to be among the most LD friendly areas of the country. Isn't a majority of 32 low for that council?

    Re name calling, a lot of people claim to be happy to take it and so are free to dish it out, but from what I can see, rarely justify such a claim regarding the former and demonstrate incredible sensitivity to even minor criticism. Easier to admit most people don't like taking it, so just don't dish it out.

    Hedge End is the villagey bit of Eastleigh, notable mostly for its soulless out of town shopping centre. The villagers here are more Tory than Eastleigh itself. For what it is worth.

  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 51,764
    edited December 2016


    I do not use the terms myself, but they have been applied to me often enough (not on PB that I am aware of) that I have decided to apply for my Irish passport.

    For someone raised as an Ulster protestant that is one heck of a step to take.

    youre on catch up Beverley

    Ive had one for 20 years and have fitted all the kids out with one, it's proved surprisingly useful over the years

    Failte :-)
    I am indeed on catch-up. I was always proud of being British but that is getting more and more tarnished with the act of collective madness known as Brexit. Since I have options I intend to ensure that I utilise them.

    Nollaig shona dhuit :-)


    MADNESS? THIS IS SPARTA BREXIT!
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,037
    Charles said:



    Charles said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Charles said:

    rcs1000 said:

    World's oldest bank moves closer to bail-out after €5bn cash call fails
    http://news.sky.com/story/shares-in-worlds-oldest-bank-suspended-again-on-funding-worries-10703877

    Not a great summary. A bail-out, of some description, was always on the cards. This is beginning to look more like Northern Rock style nationalisation.
    4 ---> 3

    But a sad way to move up the ranking.
    Who are numbers one and two?

    (Of course, BMPS may be recapitalised and refloated, but I suspect it'll be broken up and BNP will take the best bits.)
    Dutch national bank & Swedish national bank. Forget the order.
    Correction: wiki has deleted the Dutch from the ranking, so it is now the Swedish Riksbank and then my brother's shop.

    (Of course Berenberg try to claim they date from 1590, but as the founders sold then a hundred years ago it's really a new firm).
    I know John von Berenberg quite well. Nice chap, bright, and very hard working.

    He had the ignominy of being let go from the family firm, despite being the best guy on the European sales desk in London.
  • tysontyson Posts: 6,117
    @Speedy
    I think you are right....2016 has allowed us to show what we really think...for good or ill.... At least we know what we are up against.


    Mortimer...your depiction of Oxford...full of Brexiters, or sympathetic, adjusted Remainers...Please with a capital P..... Either you are a sad fantasist, or a Billy No Mates stuck in your room with Wifi and a box of kleenex....
  • Beverley_CBeverley_C Posts: 6,256

    @Beverly_C

    Just out of interest, what advantages do you think your possession of an Irish Passport gives you?

    Mr Llama - I travel around Europe a lot and I intend to be travelling there even more over the coming years so there is that aspect of it. One of my kids wants to work in Paris and she can do so much easier as an EU citizen as she can plan regardless of Brexit. She finishes Uni this year.

    There is also an emotional aspect to the whole thing. I see some of the more extreme pronouncements from politicians and others and, thanks to the internet, if I can see them so can anybody else anywhere else. The voices of those who voted remain are largely unheard whereas it seems that the voices of "Leave" are loudly shouted out. Stupid speeches like Amber Rudd's at the Tory party conference or the idiotic comments of Boris as Foreign Secretary and as for the bile pumped out by the Daily Mail ....

    I think what hurts the most is not losing EU citizenship (I can fix it) but that I feel the megaphone diplomacy is making me ashamed of my own country. I find that hard to stomach.

This discussion has been closed.