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politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Is it Darkest before the Dawn? A look at the battle for the Ho

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    Rexel56Rexel56 Posts: 807
    MaxPB said:

    Pulpstar said:

    @ydoethur Three and Sky (& BT Wholesale I guess) run my "Phone system(s). It works OK.

    When are you scheduled to get gigabit fibre optic? Sky are building a trial network in Yorkshire right now with a view to going national at some point, BT aren't even close.
    We have got our gigabit fibre optic in North Yorkshire.
    Gigabit upload and download, unlimited, £30 per month.

    Did it ourselves.

    Broadband for the Rural North

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    foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548
    edited December 2016
    Charles said:

    One of the really big costs in the US is medicines. Unlike almost anywhere else in the world, there are no big controls on the pricing of on-patent drugs and very little if any compulsory licensing. The simple fact is that US citizens subsidise the rest of the world on healthcare because the US is the place where research-based life sciences companies make their big money. We are very lucky that they do, but I would not be at all surprised if one day soon US politicians cotton onto this. If (when?) they do, it will present very serious issues for governments elsewhere.

    US politicians know all about it, it never happens because pharma is a very powerful lobby. Allegedly Obama agreed to go easy on them in return for them letting ObamaCare through. Trump has said he'll allow people to legally reimport drugs that are sold more cheaply overseas rather than buying them off the darknet, which would be a big, easy win if he goes through with it, but he'll have to fight if he really wants to make it happen.
    Legal reimportation creates massive issues with the FDA.

    How can you guarantee that products made abroad are made in FDA compliant facilities?

    Parallel importing is also a nightmare in Europe (where it is legal) but that is because it results in an arbitrage of drug prices to the lowest country but results in restricted supply to, say, Greece and Spain
    And shortages in the UK. The NHS has negotiated via its near monopoly power such low prices that drugs in short supply go to the continent.

    I am not sure how hard Brexit will affect the UK's parallel imports.
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    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 76,002
    Obscuring the eyes beggars belief.

    Note to Germany That is what you do for innocent bystanders, not the actual suspect.

    Thick as pigshit.
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    Miss Plato, the first man wasn't the suspect they were looking for.
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    Guido's advice:

    "To all you news junkies and political obssessives [sic], Guido’s advice is, take a break. We wish you all, a very merry Christmas…"

    (http://order-order.com/2016/12/21/happy-christmas-2/)

    I guess some of us fall into this camp. I need a break, what a year 2016 has been.
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    Mr. glw, thank goodness I'm bald. I was about to hand myself in.

    At least you, me and OGH are safe :-)

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    Why would the alleged attacker leave ID? Unless they were planning a one-way trip, then it surely is red herring?
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    PlatoSaidPlatoSaid Posts: 10,383

    Miss Plato, the first man wasn't the suspect they were looking for.

    :smiley:
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    Mr. Pubgoer, maybe we should start a branding campaign.

    You're Safe With A Slaphead.
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    If the wanted man was courteous enough to leave his ID documents in the truck, how on earth did it take the German police two days to issue his details?

    When that British family was massacred in their car in France didn't it take the French police quite a while to discover one of them was still alive and hiding terrified under the bodies?
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    PlatoSaid said:

    AndyJS said:

    "German police are hunting a Tunisian man over the Berlin market attack after finding documents in the truck, according to reports.

    The identity document was found under the driver's seat of the truck which ploughed into crowds at the Christmas market on Monday evening, killing 12 people.

    Der Spiegel and Allgemeine Zeitung reported that the document, apparently asylum office papers, was in the name of Anis A, born in 1992 in Tataouine, Tunisia."

    http://news.sky.com/story/berlin-attack-tunisian-man-identified-as-suspect-from-truck-documents-10703902

    Tataouine? That's a spelling error - they meant Tatooine.
    Weren't the Tatooine scenes in the original film shot in Tunisia?
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    These aren't the droids you're looking for. Move along. Move along.

    The suspect is from Tatooine. Have Der Plod searched Mos Eisley yet? That's a hive of scum and villainy - sure to nick a few jihadis there.
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    This is a thoroughly irresponsible piece by the Guardian:

    https://www.theguardian.com/business/2016/dec/21/rolls-royce-exploited-us-sanctions-loopholes-to-trade-with-iran

    You have to read two-thirds of the way through the article before you discover that the story is actually 'Rolls-Royce complied with all US laws in its dealings with Iran.'
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    PlatoSaidPlatoSaid Posts: 10,383
    Happy Birthday to @AndyJS - I hope I got this right. I was too tiddled by 5pm to recall much of the previous 12hrs.

    Or was it @Hertsmere_Pubgoer ?

    The ability of fizz to rob me of almost an entire day is quite remarkable!
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    williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 48,148

    Why would the alleged attacker leave ID? Unless they were planning a one-way trip, then it surely is red herring?

    For the attacker to get away suggests a high degree of professionalism and planning.
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    PlatoSaid said:

    AndyJS said:

    "German police are hunting a Tunisian man over the Berlin market attack after finding documents in the truck, according to reports.

    The identity document was found under the driver's seat of the truck which ploughed into crowds at the Christmas market on Monday evening, killing 12 people.

    Der Spiegel and Allgemeine Zeitung reported that the document, apparently asylum office papers, was in the name of Anis A, born in 1992 in Tataouine, Tunisia."

    http://news.sky.com/story/berlin-attack-tunisian-man-identified-as-suspect-from-truck-documents-10703902

    Tataouine? That's a spelling error - they meant Tatooine.
    Weren't the Tatooine scenes in the original film shot in Tunisia?
    Yes, I had lunch there in 2001

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    AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    PlatoSaid said:

    Happy Birthday to @AndyJS - I hope I got this right. I was too tiddled by 5pm to recall much of the previous 12hrs.

    Or was it @Hertsmere_Pubgoer ?

    The ability of fizz to rob me of almost an entire day is quite remarkable!

    It might be both of us.
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    foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548
    Number 14 may well be our very own @TwistedFireStopper

    My favourite headline in tbe Leicester Mercury after the Bali bombing: "Bali bomb, 200 dead, Leicester family's holiday ruined"

    There has to be a local angle.
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    Mr. Glenn, possible he anticipated being stopped but had a contingency plan to escape.

    Happy birthday, Mr. JS. And, er, the other chap whose birthday it is today too.
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    ydoethurydoethur Posts: 67,452

    If the wanted man was courteous enough to leave his ID documents in the truck, how on earth did it take the German police two days to issue his details?

    When that British family was massacred in their car in France didn't it take the French police quite a while to discover one of them was still alive and hiding terrified under the bodies?
    Yes - the one in question being a very traumatised small child, at that, who had been in the car with his(?) family's dead bodies for several hours (I think five) with no water, too terrified to call out.

    The French police were I gather not so gently reminded by the British team sent to handle the case for the FO that you SEARCH THE F***ING SCENE FOR SURVIVORS before pausing to take holiday snaps of the surrounding woodland.
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    SandpitSandpit Posts: 49,950

    Why would the alleged attacker leave ID? Unless they were planning a one-way trip, then it surely is red herring?

    For the attacker to get away suggests a high degree of professionalism and planning.
    And a fair bit of luck not to get lynched by the mob as he left the scene.
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    Would the perpetrator of the Berlin lorry attack really have left his identity card under the seat? Isn't it a red herring to divert from the actual terrorist being caught?
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    PlatoSaidPlatoSaid Posts: 10,383

    PlatoSaid said:

    AndyJS said:

    "German police are hunting a Tunisian man over the Berlin market attack after finding documents in the truck, according to reports.

    The identity document was found under the driver's seat of the truck which ploughed into crowds at the Christmas market on Monday evening, killing 12 people.

    Der Spiegel and Allgemeine Zeitung reported that the document, apparently asylum office papers, was in the name of Anis A, born in 1992 in Tataouine, Tunisia."

    http://news.sky.com/story/berlin-attack-tunisian-man-identified-as-suspect-from-truck-documents-10703902

    Tataouine? That's a spelling error - they meant Tatooine.
    Weren't the Tatooine scenes in the original film shot in Tunisia?
    Sure were - I visited there a few years back - had no idea it was StarWars land, it was just great scenary

    https://www.theguardian.com/film/2015/dec/03/star-wars-abandoned-tunisian-locations-in-pictures
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    Still no quote function on the main PB website.
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    PlatoSaid said:

    Happy Birthday to @AndyJS - I hope I got this right. I was too tiddled by 5pm to recall much of the previous 12hrs.

    Or was it @Hertsmere_Pubgoer ?

    The ability of fizz to rob me of almost an entire day is quite remarkable!

    Correct on both.
    Happy birthday to AndyJS


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    If the wanted man was courteous enough to leave his ID documents in the truck, how on earth did it take the German police two days to issue his details?

    When that British family was massacred in their car in France didn't it take the French police quite a while to discover one of them was still alive and hiding terrified under the bodies?
    Given Hillsborough and Rotherham, perhaps we shouldn't be casting stones.
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    Mr. Doethur, quite. Poor child.

    Mr. Pubgoer, happy birthday. Hope you don't get birthday and Christmas presents rolled into one.
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    Still no quote function on the main PB website.

    Not until after new year now. S/w developers are on festive break.
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    Number 14 may well be our very own @TwistedFireStopper

    My favourite headline in tbe Leicester Mercury after the Bali bombing: "Bali bomb, 200 dead, Leicester family's holiday ruined"

    There has to be a local angle.

    I recall seeing one after 9/11 which went along the lines of -

    America under attack. Blackburn student's plane grounded.

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    Mr. Doethur, quite. Poor child.

    Mr. Pubgoer, happy birthday. Hope you don't get birthday and Christmas presents rolled into one.

    Thanks MD.
    Joint presents has been pretty much the case

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    MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 37,631
    Truly the German police are a bunch of bungling fools. If this were happening over here in the same manner I'd expect Rudd, Sadiq and the Met commissioner to face a huge amount of grilling by parliament. This investigation is completely farcical.
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    She's very easy to annoy. Vlad and Donald will have a field day with her

    https://twitter.com/montie/status/811497324040044545

    Though where Deloitte is concerned one might also point out that it would generally be a condition of employment that one would not undermine or bring into disrepute ones employer. Something Deloitte were clearly guilty of in this case.
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    stodgestodge Posts: 12,896
    Morning all :)

    On topic, perfectly reasonable to suppose the Democrats will stage a comeback in 2018. The astonishing success of Newt Gingrich's "Contract With America" in 1994 came after the incoming Clinton Presidency looked weak and out of control.

    The most fascinating aspect of the incoming Trump administration for me is the rapprochement with Moscow which offers opportunities in some key regions for genuine progress. Tillerson and Ivanov will hopefully move things forward. This new detente may discomfort some in Europe but it's actually quite refreshing if it happens.

    The other player in this is China. Almost as a reversal of the Nixon-Kissinger years a warming in Russo-American relations leaves Beijing sidelined. How this will play out in terms of North Korea and the South China Sea I don't know but Europe risks being a backwater on the wrong side of the world in the Pacific century.
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    PlatoSaidPlatoSaid Posts: 10,383
    Will anyone ever top Dr No?

    BBC Archive
    #OTD 1966: The normally mild-mannered preacher, Ian Paisley, was driven to the old fire and brimstone act by the media heathens at the BBC https://t.co/zXTsd2gTVw
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    MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 37,631

    Why would the alleged attacker leave ID? Unless they were planning a one-way trip, then it surely is red herring?

    For the attacker to get away suggests a high degree of professionalism and planning.
    Or a huge degree of unprofessionalism within the German police and intelligence services. I don't think this would ever happen here.
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    old_labourold_labour Posts: 3,238
    MaxPB said:

    Pulpstar said:

    MaxPB said:

    Pulpstar said:

    @ydoethur Three and Sky (& BT Wholesale I guess) run my "Phone system(s). It works OK.

    When are you scheduled to get gigabit fibre optic? Sky are building a trial network in Yorkshire right now with a view to going national at some point, BT aren't even close.
    Whereabouts in Yorkshire ?

    I'm just outside... my office is in Sheffield though, and that has a unique problem of slow speed.
    http://www.sky.com/shop/broadband-talk/ultrafast/?DCMP=dmc-skycom:nc_ufo

    I think Sheffield is actually on their list of places to expand into. It's a good medium sized city. London will never get it though, we'll have to wait 20 years for BT to catch up.
    Why won't London get it? They are always digging up roads.
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    Official confirmation that Leavers are naughty and Remainers are nice:

    https://twitter.com/stephenkb/status/811491620688461824

    So people think Father Christmas is left wing.

    Would they want Father Christmas as PM though?

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    JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 39,085

    Would the perpetrator of the Berlin lorry attack really have left his identity card under the seat? Isn't it a red herring to divert from the actual terrorist being caught?

    There's something very interesting going on here. We had similar conversations on here after the Paris atrocities - why would they have their IDs with them? Various reasons were mooted back then.

    If, as some reports say, he had driven the lorry across the border, perhaps he was keeping it near him in case he was stopped. Or perhaps the lorry had been used for people smuggling previously, and it had been left on a previous trip. Or the guy wants people to know who did it (as some say the Paris attackers did). Or it is an attempt to confuse the police. Or he just mucked up.

    I'd reckon it's 50-50 that it isn't the attacker; there are too many variables to say for sure.
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    PlatoSaidPlatoSaid Posts: 10,383

    Mr. Doethur, quite. Poor child.

    Mr. Pubgoer, happy birthday. Hope you don't get birthday and Christmas presents rolled into one.

    I always hated that. My mum used to make up for it by getting me 5 little gifts for each day between 20-25th instead.

    Thought it was a lovely idea and I appreciated it a lot, given most others sent a Christmas card with a £1 note/record token saying it was for both. Gee thanks for the thought.
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    tlg86tlg86 Posts: 25,208

    Official confirmation that Leavers are naughty and Remainers are nice:

    https://twitter.com/stephenkb/status/811491620688461824

    So people think Father Christmas is left wing.

    Would they want Father Christmas as PM though?

    http://tinyurl.com/jxfx97l
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    NigelbNigelb Posts: 62,844

    One of the really big costs in the US is medicines. Unlike almost anywhere else in the world, there are no big controls on the pricing of on-patent drugs and very little if any compulsory licensing. The simple fact is that US citizens subsidise the rest of the world on healthcare because the US is the place where research-based life sciences companies make their big money. We are very lucky that they do, but I would not be at all surprised if one day soon US politicians cotton onto this. If (when?) they do, it will present very serious issues for governments elsewhere.

    While that's more or less true, prescription drugs account for slightly less than 10% of US healthcare spending, and they probably get some economic return on the resulting drug development activity in the US - which is dominant worldwide.
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    williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 48,148

    Official confirmation that Leavers are naughty and Remainers are nice:

    https://twitter.com/stephenkb/status/811491620688461824

    So people think Father Christmas is left wing.

    Would they want Father Christmas as PM though?
    Father Christmas relies on freedom of movement and the customs union to bring presents from Lapland.
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    4merfetus ‏@4merfetus 12m
    That should be easy to spot. We're looking for a guy walking around with a black bar in front of his face.

    :)
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    Hmm, before we get too smug about the british police, remember the jean charles de menezes case and the poorly attempted cover up.
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    PlatoSaid said:

    Mr. Doethur, quite. Poor child.

    Mr. Pubgoer, happy birthday. Hope you don't get birthday and Christmas presents rolled into one.

    I always hated that. My mum used to make up for it by getting me 5 little gifts for each day between 20-25th instead.

    Thought it was a lovely idea and I appreciated it a lot, given most others sent a Christmas card with a £1 note/record token saying it was for both. Gee thanks for the thought.
    It's the perils of a birthday at this time of year.
    A couple of my mates have NYE as a birthday and they really don't like that.
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    MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 37,631

    MaxPB said:

    Pulpstar said:

    MaxPB said:

    Pulpstar said:

    @ydoethur Three and Sky (& BT Wholesale I guess) run my "Phone system(s). It works OK.

    When are you scheduled to get gigabit fibre optic? Sky are building a trial network in Yorkshire right now with a view to going national at some point, BT aren't even close.
    Whereabouts in Yorkshire ?

    I'm just outside... my office is in Sheffield though, and that has a unique problem of slow speed.
    http://www.sky.com/shop/broadband-talk/ultrafast/?DCMP=dmc-skycom:nc_ufo

    I think Sheffield is actually on their list of places to expand into. It's a good medium sized city. London will never get it though, we'll have to wait 20 years for BT to catch up.
    Why won't London get it? They are always digging up roads.
    The cost would be astranomical for a new entrant. Especially since BT will never share the existing infrastructure. At a guess they'd be looking at ~£5-7bn to fibre up the whole of London and then I think the government will force them to let BT use it afterwards which I think would be extremely unfair.
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    JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 39,085
    MaxPB said:

    Why would the alleged attacker leave ID? Unless they were planning a one-way trip, then it surely is red herring?

    For the attacker to get away suggests a high degree of professionalism and planning.
    Or a huge degree of unprofessionalism within the German police and intelligence services. I don't think this would ever happen here.
    Isn't this similar to the 21/7 attempted bomb attacks in London? Pictures not released for a day, an innocent man shot dead by police, and the bombers thankfully caught a week or so later?
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    Official confirmation that Leavers are naughty and Remainers are nice:

    https://twitter.com/stephenkb/status/811491620688461824

    So people think Father Christmas is left wing.

    Would they want Father Christmas as PM though?

    All because of the magic presents tree.

    And it's just as fantasy....
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    MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 37,631

    Hmm, before we get too smug about the british police, remember the jean charles de menezes case and the poorly attempted cover up.

    Surely that's why we wouldn't see the same level of bungling here as we are in Berlin.
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    PlatoSaidPlatoSaid Posts: 10,383

    She's very easy to annoy. Vlad and Donald will have a field day with her

    https://twitter.com/montie/status/811497324040044545

    Though where Deloitte is concerned one might also point out that it would generally be a condition of employment that one would not undermine or bring into disrepute ones employer. Something Deloitte were clearly guilty of in this case.
    In my professional life, I've used Deloitte for several very expensive/detailed studies that required total confidentiality and discretion. If they did this to me, I'd never consider them again. Ever.

    They broke the trust bond and there's enough choice in the market to simply ignore them in future. The whining in The Times has got little support - all the top comments have the same view as me - they did this to themselves and have got off pretty lightly with just a 6 month self-imposed tendering ban. If I still had Whitehall money to spend, Deloitte would be at the bottom of the list from now on.
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    Mr. Glenn, possible he anticipated being stopped but had a contingency plan to escape.

    Happy birthday, Mr. JS. And, er, the other chap whose birthday it is today too.

    Wouldn't the dead Polish driver be difficult to explain away if he'd been stopped?
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    MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 37,631

    MaxPB said:

    Why would the alleged attacker leave ID? Unless they were planning a one-way trip, then it surely is red herring?

    For the attacker to get away suggests a high degree of professionalism and planning.
    Or a huge degree of unprofessionalism within the German police and intelligence services. I don't think this would ever happen here.
    Isn't this similar to the 21/7 attempted bomb attacks in London? Pictures not released for a day, an innocent man shot dead by police, and the bombers thankfully caught a week or so later?
    Which is surely why they wouldn't do it again. The Germans have not learned the same lessons. The French have though.
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    MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 37,631

    Mr. Glenn, possible he anticipated being stopped but had a contingency plan to escape.

    Happy birthday, Mr. JS. And, er, the other chap whose birthday it is today too.

    Wouldn't the dead Polish driver be difficult to explain away if he'd been stopped?
    The current theory is that he wasn't dead and was killed when he tried to take control of the steering wheel when the terrorist started driving through the market. Truly a hero if that is true, he has saved countless people from injury and possible death.
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    Mr. Herdson, I meant 'stopped' as in shot by police or lynched by a mob, not stopped on the way.
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    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 76,002
    Deloitte, after behaving like a trumped up twitter clickbait celeb should know it's place.

    Back of the queue
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    JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 39,085

    Mr. Glenn, possible he anticipated being stopped but had a contingency plan to escape.

    Happy birthday, Mr. JS. And, er, the other chap whose birthday it is today too.

    Wouldn't the dead Polish driver be difficult to explain away if he'd been stopped?
    Not sure about this particular model, but many HGV cabs have little sleeping compartments behind the seats for when the drivers are on long journeys. It'd be easy to hide a body in one, in such a way it wouldn't be discovered unless someone actually went back there.

    P'haps. Though a Tunisian ID card might lead to more questions if he had been stopped.

    I do think people are rather jumping to assumptions about the German investigation. It might be incompetent, or they might just be doing things right. We cannot know until later.
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    Official confirmation that Leavers are naughty and Remainers are nice:

    https://twitter.com/stephenkb/status/811491620688461824

    So people think Father Christmas is left wing.

    Would they want Father Christmas as PM though?

    I guess we'll find out. Who else that you can think of has a beard, likes red, seems to believe in the magic money tree, is fond of moral judgement (while brushing his own employment conditions under the carpet), and ceases to be believed in after a young age?
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    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 76,002
    @josiasJessop To release a picture of the suspect with eyes obscured though ?!
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    PlatoSaidPlatoSaid Posts: 10,383

    Hmm, before we get too smug about the british police, remember the jean charles de menezes case and the poorly attempted cover up.

    I worked with the team in counter-terrorism back then. It was a tragic mistake of identity - but the officers who shot him thought they were risking their own lives by jumping on him/shooting to stop a suicide bomber who'd blow them to smithereens in seconds. They were incredibly brave.

    Senior officers had no confidence in Sir Ian Blair - at all.

    There've been dozens of attacks stopped by the intelligence and police services since then. Perhaps less carping about a tragic mistake a decade ago is in order.
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    MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 37,631

    Mr. Glenn, possible he anticipated being stopped but had a contingency plan to escape.

    Happy birthday, Mr. JS. And, er, the other chap whose birthday it is today too.

    Wouldn't the dead Polish driver be difficult to explain away if he'd been stopped?
    Not sure about this particular model, but many HGV cabs have little sleeping compartments behind the seats for when the drivers are on long journeys. It'd be easy to hide a body in one, in such a way it wouldn't be discovered unless someone actually went back there.

    P'haps. Though a Tunisian ID card might lead to more questions if he had been stopped.

    I do think people are rather jumping to assumptions about the German investigation. It might be incompetent, or they might just be doing things right. We cannot know until later.
    Releasing a picture with a black bar? WTF is this shit?!
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    SandpitSandpit Posts: 49,950
    edited December 2016
    MaxPB said:

    MaxPB said:

    Why would the alleged attacker leave ID? Unless they were planning a one-way trip, then it surely is red herring?

    For the attacker to get away suggests a high degree of professionalism and planning.
    Or a huge degree of unprofessionalism within the German police and intelligence services. I don't think this would ever happen here.
    Isn't this similar to the 21/7 attempted bomb attacks in London? Pictures not released for a day, an innocent man shot dead by police, and the bombers thankfully caught a week or so later?
    Which is surely why they wouldn't do it again. The Germans have not learned the same lessons. The French have though.
    Yes, hopefully people and organisations learn from their mistakes, and those mistakes are talked about and learned from without seeking to blame people who acted in good faith.

    When learning to fly a small plane, accident and incident reports are required reading - mostly because they document all the ways that pilots can screw things up and kill or injure themselves. Understanding what's gone wrong in the past should reduce the risks of the same thing happening again in the future. Didn't stop the plane with the Brazilian football team running out of fuel the other week, but it's impossible to regulate such gross negligence.
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    williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 48,148
    MaxPB said:

    Mr. Glenn, possible he anticipated being stopped but had a contingency plan to escape.

    Happy birthday, Mr. JS. And, er, the other chap whose birthday it is today too.

    Wouldn't the dead Polish driver be difficult to explain away if he'd been stopped?
    Not sure about this particular model, but many HGV cabs have little sleeping compartments behind the seats for when the drivers are on long journeys. It'd be easy to hide a body in one, in such a way it wouldn't be discovered unless someone actually went back there.

    P'haps. Though a Tunisian ID card might lead to more questions if he had been stopped.

    I do think people are rather jumping to assumptions about the German investigation. It might be incompetent, or they might just be doing things right. We cannot know until later.
    Releasing a picture with a black bar? WTF is this shit?!
    The Daily Mail has found a full picture - http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4054140/How-German-police-bungled-hunt-Europe-s-wanted-man-Asylum-seeker-23-wrongly-blamed-Christmas-market-massacre-jumping-red-light.html
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    PlatoSaidPlatoSaid Posts: 10,383

    Official confirmation that Leavers are naughty and Remainers are nice:

    https://twitter.com/stephenkb/status/811491620688461824

    So people think Father Christmas is left wing.

    Would they want Father Christmas as PM though?

    Never - SJW would object that he's a white old bloke - obviously is a symbol of patriarchy, and abuses reindeer to achieve his objectives.
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    Mr. Glenn, possible he anticipated being stopped but had a contingency plan to escape.

    Happy birthday, Mr. JS. And, er, the other chap whose birthday it is today too.

    Wouldn't the dead Polish driver be difficult to explain away if he'd been stopped?
    Not sure about this particular model, but many HGV cabs have little sleeping compartments behind the seats for when the drivers are on long journeys. It'd be easy to hide a body in one, in such a way it wouldn't be discovered unless someone actually went back there.

    P'haps. Though a Tunisian ID card might lead to more questions if he had been stopped.

    I do think people are rather jumping to assumptions about the German investigation. It might be incompetent, or they might just be doing things right. We cannot know until later.
    It does look like a sleeper cab.

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    AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    edited December 2016
    I always thought it was likely the attacker wouldn't be from Syria or Iraq, and that instead it would probably be an economic migrant from a country with a history of terrorism like Tunisia.
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    Miss Plato, check your privilege.

    Elf lives matter.
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    Incidentally, if anyone was unsure of checking out Kingdom Asunder, there's now a free abridged edition (roughly 3/5 of the full version) now up on Amazon, and elsewhere:
    https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B01N9IS3S7/
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    JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 39,085
    MaxPB said:

    MaxPB said:

    Why would the alleged attacker leave ID? Unless they were planning a one-way trip, then it surely is red herring?

    For the attacker to get away suggests a high degree of professionalism and planning.
    Or a huge degree of unprofessionalism within the German police and intelligence services. I don't think this would ever happen here.
    Isn't this similar to the 21/7 attempted bomb attacks in London? Pictures not released for a day, an innocent man shot dead by police, and the bombers thankfully caught a week or so later?
    Which is surely why they wouldn't do it again. The Germans have not learned the same lessons. The French have though.
    LOL. How on earth can you make those assumptions? We cannot know, given the little information *we* have at the moment, whether our forces would be doing anything differently from the Germans at this point.

    One thing the Germans will hopefully have learnt from the Belgians back in March in particular is to get other countries' forces involved asap. See if the French, the Brits, the Yanks, have heard or seen anything that, with hindsight, might be connected. Rumours are they might.

    And rumours are fragile little things at times like this.
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    JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 39,085
    Pulpstar said:

    @josiasJessop To release a picture of the suspect with eyes obscured though ?!

    That is odd. Have they said why they did it? If not, they're going to be asked very soon.
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    MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 37,631

    MaxPB said:

    MaxPB said:

    Why would the alleged attacker leave ID? Unless they were planning a one-way trip, then it surely is red herring?

    For the attacker to get away suggests a high degree of professionalism and planning.
    Or a huge degree of unprofessionalism within the German police and intelligence services. I don't think this would ever happen here.
    Isn't this similar to the 21/7 attempted bomb attacks in London? Pictures not released for a day, an innocent man shot dead by police, and the bombers thankfully caught a week or so later?
    Which is surely why they wouldn't do it again. The Germans have not learned the same lessons. The French have though.
    LOL. How on earth can you make those assumptions? We cannot know, given the little information *we* have at the moment, whether our forces would be doing anything differently from the Germans at this point.

    One thing the Germans will hopefully have learnt from the Belgians back in March in particular is to get other countries' forces involved asap. See if the French, the Brits, the Yanks, have heard or seen anything that, with hindsight, might be connected. Rumours are they might.

    And rumours are fragile little things at times like this.
    Well for one this guy was known to intelligence and in contact with known terrorists, he'd been arrested and charged for crimes, had 8 different identities and was registered with two asylum different centres. It looks like a failure from beginning to end.

    It's obviously not just Erdogan you want to defend, but Merkel as well for some reason. I honestly don't get it.
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    AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    edited December 2016
    Germany's strict privacy laws are probably the reason for the obscured eyes, even if it doesn't make sense on this occasion. The same privacy laws possibly contributed to the German Wings plane crash, where the pilot's medical problems weren't passed on to the airline even though it might have endangered the passengers.
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    williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 48,148
    MaxPB said:

    It's obviously not just Erdogan you want to defend, but Merkel as well for some reason. I honestly don't get it.

    You phrase that as if you think Merkel is worse than Erdogan.
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    JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 39,085
    MaxPB said:

    MaxPB said:

    MaxPB said:

    Why would the alleged attacker leave ID? Unless they were planning a one-way trip, then it surely is red herring?

    For the attacker to get away suggests a high degree of professionalism and planning.
    Or a huge degree of unprofessionalism within the German police and intelligence services. I don't think this would ever happen here.
    Isn't this similar to the 21/7 attempted bomb attacks in London? Pictures not released for a day, an innocent man shot dead by police, and the bombers thankfully caught a week or so later?
    Which is surely why they wouldn't do it again. The Germans have not learned the same lessons. The French have though.
    LOL. How on earth can you make those assumptions? We cannot know, given the little information *we* have at the moment, whether our forces would be doing anything differently from the Germans at this point.

    One thing the Germans will hopefully have learnt from the Belgians back in March in particular is to get other countries' forces involved asap. See if the French, the Brits, the Yanks, have heard or seen anything that, with hindsight, might be connected. Rumours are they might.

    And rumours are fragile little things at times like this.
    Well for one this guy was known to intelligence and in contact with known terrorists, he'd been arrested and charged for crimes, had 8 different identities and was registered with two asylum different centres. It looks like a failure from beginning to end.

    It's obviously not just Erdogan you want to defend, but Merkel as well for some reason. I honestly don't get it.
    Max, you're out of order there. Calm down.

    I've been critical of Erdogan on plenty of occasions; it's just that I don't descend to the depths that you do. I've also criticised Merkel many times for her policy wrt the immigrants, and said that Cameron got the UK's policy right.

    I do try to explain the difficult situation the Turks find themselves in. Which you, sadly, do not appear to like.
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    MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 37,631

    MaxPB said:

    It's obviously not just Erdogan you want to defend, but Merkel as well for some reason. I honestly don't get it.

    You phrase that as if you think Merkel is worse than Erdogan.
    They are in the same boat, just at opposite ends.
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    AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    edited December 2016
    Just dawned on me that the Nice attacker was Tunisian as well.
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    PlatoSaidPlatoSaid Posts: 10,383

    Miss Plato, check your privilege.

    Elf lives matter.

    That reminds me of a bizarre experience I had in Jamaica back in the early 2000s. I was drinking in a hotel bar and another guest asked me for a date.

    I declined - he instantly accused me of 'being shortist'. He was short - and frankly I feel awkward being 4" taller than a partner. He was so hair-trigger about it and I'd never mentioned his height. He went on and on and on! In public :astonished:

    He'd have done a lot better approaching women who weren't taller than he was - or gotten therapy for his short man issues.
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    shiney2shiney2 Posts: 672
    Wow, that's quite a sig - a wall of double strand barbed wired with added sharp bits.

    Hope the USAF drone force has a safety catch..

    https://twitter.com/paulwaugh/status/811539156149141504?ref_src=twsrc^tfw

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    PlatoSaid said:

    Miss Plato, check your privilege.

    Elf lives matter.

    That reminds me of a bizarre experience I had in Jamaica back in the early 2000s. I was drinking in a hotel bar and another guest asked me for a date.

    I declined - he instantly accused me of 'being shortist'. He was short - and frankly I feel awkward being 4" taller than a partner. He was so hair-trigger about it and I'd never mentioned his height. He went on and on and on! In public :astonished:

    He'd have done a lot better approaching women who weren't taller than he was - or gotten therapy for his short man issues.
    You should have said loud enough for everyone to hear "No, it's because your f**king ugly!" or something.

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    MaxPB said:

    Mr. Glenn, possible he anticipated being stopped but had a contingency plan to escape.

    Happy birthday, Mr. JS. And, er, the other chap whose birthday it is today too.

    Wouldn't the dead Polish driver be difficult to explain away if he'd been stopped?
    The current theory is that he wasn't dead and was killed when he tried to take control of the steering wheel when the terrorist started driving through the market. Truly a hero if that is true, he has saved countless people from injury and possible death.
    That makes sense - I hadn't seen that detail. Thanks.
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    Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 25,577
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=seO5-x_ue_g

    Christmas celebrations in Aleppo.
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    rkrkrkrkrkrk Posts: 7,921
    Sandpit said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Eh? I don't understand the bet suggested by Raymond Kennedy in the last line of his thread in which he suggests laying the Republicans' control of the House, following assumed mid-term losses, etc.
    I can't see this bet with Betfair as the lay odds of 1.11 to which he refers relate to the current position, i.e. as a result of the November elections as confirmed by the rules governing this market:
    "Which party will control a majority of House of Representatives seats as a result of the 2016 US House of Representatives elections?"

    You're right - THE MARKET IS FOR THE CURRENT HOUSE.

    AMEND THE HEADER.

    SERIOUSLY
    This market:
    https://www.betfair.com/exchange/#/politics/event/27865736/market?marketId=1.125797376
    Is the only market related to congressional elections, and it's definitely 2016 not 2018.

    Laying Rep or backing Dem is throwing away your money unless something weird happens before Congress meets in January.
    I'm really sorry... I've made a massive mistake here in misreading the market.

    Apologies to all and thanks to those who pointed it out so quickly.
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    MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 37,631

    MaxPB said:

    MaxPB said:

    MaxPB said:

    Why would the alleged attacker leave ID? Unless they were planning a one-way trip, then it surely is red herring?

    For the attacker to get away suggests a high degree of professionalism and planning.
    Or a huge degree of unprofessionalism within the German police and intelligence services. I don't think this would ever happen here.
    Isn't this similar to the 21/7 attempted bomb attacks in London? Pictures not released for a day, an innocent man shot dead by police, and the bombers thankfully caught a week or so later?
    Which is surely why they wouldn't do it again. The Germans have not learned the same lessons. The French have though.
    LOL. How on earth can you make those assumptions? We cannot know, given the little information *we* have at the moment, whether our forces would be doing anything differently from the Germans at this point.

    One thing the Germans will hopefully have learnt from the Belgians back in March in particular is to get other countries' forces involved asap. See if the French, the Brits, the Yanks, have heard or seen anything that, with hindsight, might be connected. Rumours are they might.

    And rumours are fragile little things at times like this.
    Well for one this guy was known to intelligence and in contact with known terrorists, he'd been arrested and charged for crimes, had 8 different identities and was registered with two asylum different centres. It looks like a failure from beginning to end.

    It's obviously not just Erdogan you want to defend, but Merkel as well for some reason. I honestly don't get it.
    Max, you're out of order there. Calm down.

    I've been critical of Erdogan on plenty of occasions; it's just that I don't descend to the depths that you do. I've also criticised Merkel many times for her policy wrt the immigrants, and said that Cameron got the UK's policy right.

    I do try to explain the difficult situation the Turks find themselves in. Which you, sadly, do not appear to like.
    I'm perfectly calm. Just not in the mood to be lectured to by someone who has supported the policies of Merkel, policies that have let in thousands of potential terrorists. Your blind love of her is just sad. Your support of Erdogan is sickening, I thought that after he made nice with Putin you would have an about turn but clearly I was wrong, your uncritical eye when it comes to Turkey and Erdogan is just ridiculous.
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    SandpitSandpit Posts: 49,950
    edited December 2016

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=seO5-x_ue_g

    Christmas celebrations in Aleppo.

    Awesome!!! :D:+1:
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    SimonStClareSimonStClare Posts: 7,976
    edited December 2016
    AndyJS said:

    Just dawned on me that the Nice attacker was Tunisian as well.

    Indeed Mr JS and a very happy birthday to you. – Recent atrocities involving Tunisian terrorists include the Nice attack, which killed 84, the Berlin attack which killed 12 and the Tunisian beach attack last year that killed 38.
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    PlatoSaidPlatoSaid Posts: 10,383

    PlatoSaid said:

    Miss Plato, check your privilege.

    Elf lives matter.

    That reminds me of a bizarre experience I had in Jamaica back in the early 2000s. I was drinking in a hotel bar and another guest asked me for a date.

    I declined - he instantly accused me of 'being shortist'. He was short - and frankly I feel awkward being 4" taller than a partner. He was so hair-trigger about it and I'd never mentioned his height. He went on and on and on! In public :astonished:

    He'd have done a lot better approaching women who weren't taller than he was - or gotten therapy for his short man issues.
    You should have said loud enough for everyone to hear "No, it's because your f**king ugly!" or something.

    He looked like a smaller version of Ben Johnson and quite amusing, if a trifle too intense. That showed itself in his height issues. I was so WTF that I wondered if it was a prank. I'd be unsurprised if he slapped people around given a chance.
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    JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 39,085
    MaxPB said:

    I'm perfectly calm. Just not in the mood to be lectured to by someone who has supported the policies of Merkel, policies that have let in thousands of potential terrorists. Your blind love of her is just sad. Your support of Erdogan is sickening, I thought that after he made nice with Putin you would have an about turn but clearly I was wrong, your uncritical eye when it comes to Turkey and Erdogan is just ridiculous.

    Max, find *one* post where I have supported Merkel's policy (in fact, in common with others I've referred to it as 'madness').

    Go on. Because as far as I'm aware I haven't supported it once. As I say above, I complimented Cameron's stance at the same time as criticising Merkels.

    My 'support' for Erdogan is nothing of the sort: as you'd know if you actually read my posts with an open mind. Mentioning the problems that confront Turkey is not the same as supporting Erdogan.

    In a similar manner, you might also like to look up my comments on Gulen.

    Basically: you are out of order.
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    AndyJS said:

    I always thought it was likely the attacker wouldn't be from Syria or Iraq, and that instead it would probably be an economic migrant from a country with a history of terrorism like Tunisia.

    Indeed. The problem with Merkel's open doors policy was that it let in a large volume of chancers who were neither Syrian nor refugees.

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    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 76,002
    @Sandpit Clearly life is better under Putin, Assad and Hezbollah than Obama, Al-Nusra and ISIS :D
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    SandpitSandpit Posts: 49,950
    rkrkrk said:

    Sandpit said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Eh? I don't understand the bet suggested by Raymond Kennedy in the last line of his thread in which he suggests laying the Republicans' control of the House, following assumed mid-term losses, etc.
    I can't see this bet with Betfair as the lay odds of 1.11 to which he refers relate to the current position, i.e. as a result of the November elections as confirmed by the rules governing this market:
    "Which party will control a majority of House of Representatives seats as a result of the 2016 US House of Representatives elections?"

    You're right - THE MARKET IS FOR THE CURRENT HOUSE.

    AMEND THE HEADER.

    SERIOUSLY
    This market:
    https://www.betfair.com/exchange/#/politics/event/27865736/market?marketId=1.125797376
    Is the only market related to congressional elections, and it's definitely 2016 not 2018.

    Laying Rep or backing Dem is throwing away your money unless something weird happens before Congress meets in January.
    I'm really sorry... I've made a massive mistake here in misreading the market.

    Apologies to all and thanks to those who pointed it out so quickly.
    No worries, was an otherwise good piece. Nice to see more people volunteering to write the leaders.
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    PlatoSaidPlatoSaid Posts: 10,383
    Sandpit said:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=seO5-x_ue_g

    Christmas celebrations in Aleppo.

    Awesome!!! :D:+1:
    :love:
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    Miss Plato, one of the seminars at university (psychology degree, 99% female course) was about what people found attractive unattractive [men - if you ever find yourself in a comparable situation the correct answer is saying you find women who are too skinny unattractive].

    A tall, and quite lovely, girl said she didn't like dating shorter men (she must've been 6' or 6'2", so that's quite a lot of chaps) to which there was much nodding of agreement.

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    SandpitSandpit Posts: 49,950
    edited December 2016
    Pulpstar said:

    @Sandpit Clearly life is better under Putin, Assad and Hezbollah than Obama, Al-Nusra and ISIS :D

    Great to see Christmas celebrated everywhere in the world, especially where there has been conflict during the year.

    Also great to point out to the atheist jobsworths in Britain that it's Christmas in most of the Muslim world too - or maybe that 50' tree I walked past last night - with a full size nativity scene at the base - was for something else?
    https://twitter.com/MallofEmirates/status/809361896734359552

    Merry Christmas everyone!
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    MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 37,631
    That completely and utterly trashes the bail-in rules of the EU. The EU will have to act to block it and enforce the rules.
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    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 76,002
    @rkrkrk

    I've replied to your message.
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    PlatoSaidPlatoSaid Posts: 10,383

    Miss Plato, one of the seminars at university (psychology degree, 99% female course) was about what people found attractive unattractive [men - if you ever find yourself in a comparable situation the correct answer is saying you find women who are too skinny unattractive].

    A tall, and quite lovely, girl said she didn't like dating shorter men (she must've been 6' or 6'2", so that's quite a lot of chaps) to which there was much nodding of agreement.

    I'm 5 7 and feel uncomfortable with men under 5 11. If I'm taller in heels - I feel like their mum/protector. It's a very strong and weird instinct I've tried to overcome and can't. Same with men who look noticeably younger. I'm happiest with same age/ 6 1 - 6 4.
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    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 76,002
    My other half is 6'2, shes said it would be weird for her to go out with anyone under 6 foot. I'm 6'1.
This discussion has been closed.