So, just to clarify with our more intense Leavers, is it your view that if and when the Article 50 negotiations start the public's perception of the government's handling of Brexit is going to soar?
Well, it's a view I suppose.
Intense leavers are just glad we left, & probably pleasantly surprised so many people agreed with them.
I doubt many thought it would be a swift or easy process. But the vote was won, that's the important thing
Would you be happy if we left and part of the leaving agreement was continued free movement of people?
So, just to clarify with our more intense Leavers, is it your view that if and when the Article 50 negotiations start the public's perception of the government's handling of Brexit is going to soar?
Well, it's a view I suppose.
Intense leavers are just glad we left, & probably pleasantly surprised so many people agreed with them.
I doubt many thought it would be a swift or easy process. But the vote was won, that's the important thing
Would you be happy if we left and part of the leaving agreement was continued free movement of people?
That's probably not going to happen, given the current rhetoric.
So, just to clarify with our more intense Leavers, is it your view that if and when the Article 50 negotiations start the public's perception of the government's handling of Brexit is going to soar?
Well, it's a view I suppose.
Intense leavers are just glad we left, & probably pleasantly surprised so many people agreed with them.
I doubt many thought it would be a swift or easy process. But the vote was won, that's the important thing
Would you be happy if we left and part of the leaving agreement was continued free movement of people?
That's probably not going to happen, given the current rhetoric.
Maybe maybe not. Leavers tell us that as long as we leave it is up to the government the type of leaving. People have decided that "the people" are clear that they want control over immigration, but as every Leaver repeats ad infinitum, all they voted for was to leave the EU, not for any particular policy.
Have to say I was wrong about EUR/USD it has absolute smashed through the floor of $1.05 today and it is even approaching £0.83 as well which is another milestone. The UniCredit bounce got smashed by the Fed.
Trump pulling together all those billionaires (And quite alot of them almost certain Democrats) indicates that the last place he is going to apply ideology is on the jobs front. I expect the red republican meat will be handed out in SCOTUS appointments, social policy etc.
He might not deliver, but he is off to a fantastic start. Trump/Yellen is looking like a very formidable combination for the dollar right now.
Part of that will have been him laying down the law to tech companies who fire Americans and hire H1-B workers from India to replace them. I think he really doesn't get on with that idea at all, he'd prefer a proper outsourcing of the services than importing of foreign labour.
He will throw a lot of red meat in terms of race and gender to white Americans. Feminists will take a back seat for 8 years, progressive LGBT types will take a back seat and so will minority interests. Minorities will be expected to adjust to the majority way of life rather than the majority accepting the minority way of life being different. It will all be achieved under the stars and stripes.
That sounds like a pretty good summary. Hopefully he will take a serious look at H1B abuse, that visa was supposed to be for super-skilled foreigners, not entry-level outsourcing roles a la Disney. A $150k minimum salary should sort it out.
There are two classes of visa, I think you're describing the O1 visa, rather than the H1 which is just for any old graduate.
The H1(B) is the one getting seriously abused in corporate IT. They are supposed to show a need for hiring immigrants and that they tried hiring Americans, but in practice outsourcing companies like Tata are replacing whole teams with H1-B visa holders for low wages and laying off skilled workers, who are even asked to train their immigrant replacements.
It was designed for scientists and key staff, not for 20-something worker drones hired at half the wage an American with a family can afford to live on.
http://m.slashdot.org/story/319935 Is a recent example of this, with Disney being sued by their former staff for discrimination against Americans.
Thanks for all the advice on suit buying. I fear I might be close to bottling it again. I mean, £5,000 for a SUIT. I might just get a bespoke hanky.
Don't go to Savile Row then. How much are you paying for the label and how much for the suit? Of course, it might be that you *want* to pay for the label, even though you're the only one who'll see it, and that you simply want the experience of have a top-quality suit made - not just the ownership of it afterwards but the fittings and the rest.
All the same, I'd bet you could have one made elsewhere in the country to a similar quality for a fraction the price - or even elsewhere in London.
No you can't.
To be fair, I've little experience in either market. But then my guess is that few do.
The H1(B) is the one getting seriously abused in corporate IT. They are supposed to show a need for hiring immigrants and that they tried hiring Americans, but in practice outsourcing companies like Tata are replacing whole teams with H1-B visa holders for low wages and laying off skilled workers, who are even asked to train their immigrant replacements.
It was designed for scientists and key staff, not for 20-something worker drones hired at half the wage an American with a family can afford to live on.
http://m.slashdot.org/story/319935 Is a recent example of this, with Disney being sued by their former staff for discrimination against Americans.
Yes, Dell did it earlier in the year as well and my cousin says Facebook have started to do it too for entry level positions. The biggest issue for a graduate of computing in America is finding the first opportunity today, once you have experience it isn't difficult to get a good job, but companies are importing cheap entry level labour willing to live 10 to a room and work for peanuts. Sounds oddly familiar!
So, just to clarify with our more intense Leavers, is it your view that if and when the Article 50 negotiations start the public's perception of the government's handling of Brexit is going to soar?
Well, it's a view I suppose.
Intense leavers are just glad we left, & probably pleasantly surprised so many people agreed with them.
I doubt many thought it would be a swift or easy process. But the vote was won, that's the important thing
Would you be happy if we left and part of the leaving agreement was continued free movement of people?
Wouldn't be what I wanted but better than being trapped inside. If people really don't like it, they'll vote in a party that will do something about it. That wasn't possible before unless Ukip won a majority which was never going to happen.
It's like being out of prison but having to wear a tag! Annoying but better than before
So, just to clarify with our more intense Leavers, is it your view that if and when the Article 50 negotiations start the public's perception of the government's handling of Brexit is going to soar?
Well, it's a view I suppose.
Intense leavers are just glad we left, & probably pleasantly surprised so many people agreed with them.
I doubt many thought it would be a swift or easy process. But the vote was won, that's the important thing
Would you be happy if we left and part of the leaving agreement was continued free movement of people?
Wouldn't be what I wanted but better than being trapped inside. If people really don't like it, they'll vote in a party that will do something about it. That wasn't possible before unless Ukip won a majority which was never going to happen.
It's like being out of prison but having to wear a tag! Annoying but better than before
Any kind of leave is better than any kind of remain. Simply.
Theresa May's satisfaction ratings will rise when she eventually triggers Article 50, simply because the current apparent stasis (even though it might well be unavoidable) satisfies no-one.
Guardian on Lambeth Council and child care failings. King Herod must have been employed to advise on child care. Problem appears to go back a very long way.
So, just to clarify with our more intense Leavers, is it your view that if and when the Article 50 negotiations start the public's perception of the government's handling of Brexit is going to soar?
Well, it's a view I suppose.
Intense leavers are just glad we left, & probably pleasantly surprised so many people agreed with them.
I doubt many thought it would be a swift or easy process. But the vote was won, that's the important thing
Would you be happy if we left and part of the leaving agreement was continued free movement of people?
Wouldn't be what I wanted but better than being trapped inside. If people really don't like it, they'll vote in a party that will do something about it. That wasn't possible before unless Ukip won a majority which was never going to happen.
It's like being out of prison but having to wear a tag! Annoying but better than before
Any kind of leave is better than any kind of remain. Simply.
That is utterly barking mad and demonstrates neatly just how crazed Europhobes are.
Theresa May's satisfaction ratings will rise when she eventually triggers Article 50, simply because the current apparent stasis (even though it might well be unavoidable) satifies no-one.
The Con -> UKIP drift will probably be reversed and I think the Lab -> LD as well. Once leaving becomes a reality the parties of ultra-leave and ultra-remain will both suffer.
Theresa May's satisfaction ratings will rise when she eventually triggers Article 50, simply because the current apparent stasis (even though it might well be unavoidable) satifies no-one.
The Con -> UKIP drift will probably be reversed and I think the Lab -> LD as well. Once leaving becomes a reality the parties of ultra-leave and ultra-remain will both suffer.
Yes.
I should add, however, that I'd expect her satisfaction ratings to start dropping again as the negotiation proceeds, and compromises have to be made. That will of course be even more the case if, as seems quite likely, there is economic disruption.
Theresa May's satisfaction ratings will rise when she eventually triggers Article 50, simply because the current apparent stasis (even though it might well be unavoidable) satisfies no-one.
The question OGH doesn't ask is "When will May's rating be worse than Corbyn"
It's like being out of prison but having to wear a tag! Annoying but better than before Any kind of leave is better than any kind of remain. Simply.
Yes, exactly this. After we've tunneled under the barbed wire we can decide our escape route over the nearby fields and enemy territory. But the priority has got to be to get out of range of the machinegun posts, guard dogs and searchlight towers.
Theresa May's satisfaction ratings will rise when she eventually triggers Article 50, simply because the current apparent stasis (even though it might well be unavoidable) satifies no-one.
The Con -> UKIP drift will probably be reversed and I think the Lab -> LD as well. Once leaving becomes a reality the parties of ultra-leave and ultra-remain will both suffer.
If Article 50 is revocable then Remain parties can only be strengthened by the chaos and betrayal that will ensue during the negotiation period.
So, just to clarify with our more intense Leavers, is it your view that if and when the Article 50 negotiations start the public's perception of the government's handling of Brexit is going to soar?
Well, it's a view I suppose.
Intense leavers are just glad we left, & probably pleasantly surprised so many people agreed with them.
I doubt many thought it would be a swift or easy process. But the vote was won, that's the important thing
Would you be happy if we left and part of the leaving agreement was continued free movement of people?
Wouldn't be what I wanted but better than being trapped inside. If people really don't like it, they'll vote in a party that will do something about it. That wasn't possible before unless Ukip won a majority which was never going to happen.
It's like being out of prison but having to wear a tag! Annoying but better than before
Any kind of leave is better than any kind of remain. Simply.
That is utterly barking mad and demonstrates neatly just how crazed Europhobes are.
Or just how deluded EUphiles like you are about what any remain vote would have done to our stance on the EU. I'd have taken staying if there was no referendum, but not staying after giving the EU a democratic seal of approval, no matter how narrow.
It's like being out of prison but having to wear a tag! Annoying but better than before Any kind of leave is better than any kind of remain. Simply.
Yes, exactly this. After we've tunneled under the barbed wire we can decide our escape route over the nearby fields and enemy territory. But the priority has got to be to get out of range of the machinegun posts, guard dogs and searchlight towers.
Theresa May's satisfaction ratings will rise when she eventually triggers Article 50, simply because the current apparent stasis (even though it might well be unavoidable) satifies no-one.
The Con -> UKIP drift will probably be reversed and I think the Lab -> LD as well. Once leaving becomes a reality the parties of ultra-leave and ultra-remain will both suffer.
Yes.
I should add, however, that I'd expect her satisfaction ratings to start dropping again as the negotiation proceeds, and compromises have to be made. That will of course be even more the case if, as seems quite likely, there is economic disruption.
No doubt, at least 48% of the nation won't be happy with Brexit whatever the flavour and around half of the 52% will be unhappy with hard or soft Brexit.
So, just to clarify with our more intense Leavers, is it your view that if and when the Article 50 negotiations start the public's perception of the government's handling of Brexit is going to soar?
Well, it's a view I suppose.
Intense leavers are just glad we left, & probably pleasantly surprised so many people agreed with them.
I doubt many thought it would be a swift or easy process. But the vote was won, that's the important thing
Would you be happy if we left and part of the leaving agreement was continued free movement of people?
Wouldn't be what I wanted but better than being trapped inside. If people really don't like it, they'll vote in a party that will do something about it. That wasn't possible before unless Ukip won a majority which was never going to happen.
It's like being out of prison but having to wear a tag! Annoying but better than before
Any kind of leave is better than any kind of remain. Simply.
That is utterly barking mad and demonstrates neatly just how crazed Europhobes are.
Or just how deluded EUphiles like you are about what any remain vote would have done to our stance on the EU. I'd have taken staying if there was no referendum, but not staying after giving the EU a democratic seal of approval, no matter how narrow.
Your inability to contemplate the idea of even the most basic of cost benefit analyses marks you and those who think like you as irredeemable cretins.
So, just to clarify with our more intense Leavers, is it your view that if and when the Article 50 negotiations start the public's perception of the government's handling of Brexit is going to soar?
Well, it's a view I suppose.
Intense leavers are just glad we left, & probably pleasantly surprised so many people agreed with them.
I doubt many thought it would be a swift or easy process. But the vote was won, that's the important thing
Would you be happy if we left and part of the leaving agreement was continued free movement of people?
Wouldn't be what I wanted but better than being trapped inside. If people really don't like it, they'll vote in a party that will do something about it. That wasn't possible before unless Ukip won a majority which was never going to happen.
It's like being out of prison but having to wear a tag! Annoying but better than before
Any kind of leave is better than any kind of remain. Simply.
That is utterly barking mad and demonstrates neatly just how crazed Europhobes are.
Or just how deluded EUphiles like you are about what any remain vote would have done to our stance on the EU. I'd have taken staying if there was no referendum, but not staying after giving the EU a democratic seal of approval, no matter how narrow.
I would rather live in a U.K. with Corbyn in charge saying free movement with no control from anywhere as long as we were outside the EU. At least we could get rid of him.
Cameron feeling sick over EU courts saying we had to give prisoners the vote, Cameron promising to get migration numbers down to the tens of thousands and increasing them.... all lies, all promises with ready made excuses. Saying something will happen someday, but not now because the EU won't let us... weasel words. At least that can't happen now.
So, just to clarify with our more intense Leavers, is it your view that if and when the Article 50 negotiations start the public's perception of the government's handling of Brexit is going to soar?
Well, it's a view I suppose.
Intense leavers are just glad we left, & probably pleasantly surprised so many people agreed with them.
I doubt many thought it would be a swift or easy process. But the vote was won, that's the important thing
Would you be happy if we left and part of the leaving agreement was continued free movement of people?
Wouldn't be what I wanted but better than being trapped inside. If people really don't like it, they'll vote in a party that will do something about it. That wasn't possible before unless Ukip won a majority which was never going to happen.
It's like being out of prison but having to wear a tag! Annoying but better than before
Any kind of leave is better than any kind of remain. Simply.
That is utterly barking mad and demonstrates neatly just how crazed Europhobes are.
Or just how deluded EUphiles like you are about what any remain vote would have done to our stance on the EU. I'd have taken staying if there was no referendum, but not staying after giving the EU a democratic seal of approval, no matter how narrow.
Your inability to contemplate the idea of even the most basic of cost benefit analyses marks you and those who think like you as irredeemable cretins.
And yet you'd take the reverse scenario, even if the eventual cost was signing up to the Eurozone, EU Army and all the rest of that rubbish. Who hasn't done the cost benefit analysis? A remain vote, any remain vote, would have completely undermined out defence posture within the EU for less integration. I said before the referendum a remain vote would have to result in us going in all guns blazing for the EU, sign up to every directive and join the EMU. After a democratic vote our half-in half-out approach would have been even less sustainable.
So, just to clarify with our more intense Leavers, is it your view that if and when the Article 50 negotiations start the public's perception of the government's handling of Brexit is going to soar?
Well, it's a view I suppose.
Intense leavers are just glad we left, & probably pleasantly surprised so many people agreed with them.
I doubt many thought it would be a swift or easy process. But the vote was won, that's the important thing
Would you be happy if we left and part of the leaving agreement was continued free movement of people?
Wouldn't be what I wanted but better than being trapped inside. If people really don't like it, they'll vote in a party that will do something about it. That wasn't possible before unless Ukip won a majority which was never going to happen.
It's like being out of prison but having to wear a tag! Annoying but better than before
Any kind of leave is better than any kind of remain. Simply.
That is utterly barking mad and demonstrates neatly just how crazed Europhobes are.
Or just how deluded EUphiles like you are about what any remain vote would have done to our stance on the EU. I'd have taken staying if there was no referendum, but not staying after giving the EU a democratic seal of approval, no matter how narrow.
Your inability to contemplate the idea of even the most basic of cost benefit analyses marks you and those who think like you as irredeemable cretins.
The problem is that the people suffering the costs under the status quo are different from those seeing the benefits from it. Those like yourself, in the latter group, aren't seeing your wages held back by immigration and aren't struggling to house and feed your family.
So, just to clarify with our more intense Leavers, is it your view that if and when the Article 50 negotiations start the public's perception of the government's handling of Brexit is going to soar?
Well, it's a view I suppose.
Intense leavers are just glad we left, & probably pleasantly surprised so many people agreed with them.
I doubt many thought it would be a swift or easy process. But the vote was won, that's the important thing
Would you be happy if we left and part of the leaving agreement was continued free movement of people?
Wouldn't be what I wanted but better than being trapped inside. If people really don't like it, they'll vote in a party that will do something about it. That wasn't possible before unless Ukip won a majority which was never going to happen.
It's like being out of prison but having to wear a tag! Annoying but better than before
Any kind of leave is better than any kind of remain. Simply.
That is utterly barking mad and demonstrates neatly just how crazed Europhobes are.
Or just how deluded EUphiles like you are about what any remain vote would have done to our stance on the EU. I'd have taken staying if there was no referendum, but not staying after giving the EU a democratic seal of approval, no matter how narrow.
Your inability to contemplate the idea of even the most basic of cost benefit analyses marks you and those who think like you as irredeemable cretins.
Time to use the "knowing the cost of everything and the value of nothing" retort.
Theresa May's satisfaction ratings will rise when she eventually triggers Article 50, simply because the current apparent stasis (even though it might well be unavoidable) satifies no-one.
The Con -> UKIP drift will probably be reversed and I think the Lab -> LD as well. Once leaving becomes a reality the parties of ultra-leave and ultra-remain will both suffer.
If Article 50 is revocable then Remain parties can only be strengthened by the chaos and betrayal that will ensue during the negotiation period.
That depends on who ends up most blamed for that chaos. The government might stay diplomatically quiet but its allies in the media and on the backbenchers will happily point their fingers across the Channel. Whether the public buys is another question and will turn on whether the government's looking reasonable and competent.
So, just to clarify with our more intense Leavers, is it your view that if and when the Article 50 negotiations start the public's perception of the government's handling of Brexit is going to soar?
Well, it's a view I suppose.
Intense leavers are just glad we left, & probably pleasantly surprised so many people agreed with them.
I doubt many thought it would be a swift or easy process. But the vote was won, that's the important thing
Would you be happy if we left and part of the leaving agreement was continued free movement of people?
Wouldn't be what I wanted but better than being trapped inside. If people really don't like it, they'll vote in a party that will do something about it. That wasn't possible before unless Ukip won a majority which was never going to happen.
It's like being out of prison but having to wear a tag! Annoying but better than before
Any kind of leave is better than any kind of remain. Simply.
That is utterly barking mad and demonstrates neatly just how crazed Europhobes are.
Or just how deluded EUphiles like you are about what any remain vote would have done to our stance on the EU. I'd have taken staying if there was no referendum, but not staying after giving the EU a democratic seal of approval, no matter how narrow.
I would rather live in a U.K. with Corbyn in charge saying free movement with no control from anywhere as long as we were outside the EU. At least we could get rid of him.
Cameron feeling sick over EU courts saying we had to give prisoners the vote, Cameron promising to get migration numbers down to the tens of thousands and increasing them.... all lies, all promises with ready made excuses. Saying something will happen someday, but not now because the EU won't let us... weasel words. At least that can't happen now.
Votes for prisoners was successfully blocked by the UK, so hardly evidence of our weakness in the EU.
Migration down to the 10s of thousands was never met but given we never even got the ex-EU migration number we do control down, its clear that the drive for immigration was not just an EU imposition.
Also, as a has been said elsewhere, the commitment to migration down to the 10s of thousands should have been taken seriously but not literally.
So, just to clarify with our more intense Leavers, is it your view that if and when the Article 50 negotiations start the public's perception of the government's handling of Brexit is going to soar?
Well, it's a view I suppose.
Intense leavers are just glad we left, & probably pleasantly surprised so many people agreed with them.
I doubt many thought it would be a swift or easy process. But the vote was won, that's the important thing
Would you be happy if we left and part of the leaving agreement was continued free movement of people?
Wouldn't be what I wanted but better than being trapped inside. If people really don't like it, they'll vote in a party that will do something about it. That wasn't possible before unless Ukip won a majority which was never going to happen.
It's like being out of prison but having to wear a tag! Annoying but better than before
Any kind of leave is better than any kind of remain. Simply.
That is utterly barking mad and demonstrates neatly just how crazed Europhobes are.
Or just how deluded EUphiles like you are about what any remain vote would have done to our stance on the EU. I'd have taken staying if there was no referendum, but not staying after giving the EU a democratic seal of approval, no matter how narrow.
Your inability to contemplate the idea of even the most basic of cost benefit analyses marks you and those who think like you as irredeemable cretins.
And yet you'd take the reverse scenario, even if the eventual cost was signing up to the Eurozone, EU Army and all the rest of that rubbish. Who hasn't done the cost benefit analysis? A remain vote, any remain vote, would have completely undermined out defence posture within the EU for less integration. I said before the referendum a remain vote would have to result in us going in all guns blazing for the EU, sign up to every directive and join the EMU. After a democratic vote our half-in half-out approach would have been even less sustainable.
Now there you are not even able to understand your own words. Far from being able to contemplate any kind of remain, you can only imagine one. All bar the swivel-eyed will be able to see that your concept of inevitable full-European Remain as the only conceivable Remain is nonsensical.
So, just to clarify with our more intense Leavers, is it your view that if and when the Article 50 negotiations start the public's perception of the government's handling of Brexit is going to soar?
Well, it's a view I suppose.
Intense leavers are just glad we left, & probably pleasantly surprised so many people agreed with them.
I doubt many thought it would be a swift or easy process. But the vote was won, that's the important thing
Would you be happy if we left and part of the leaving agreement was continued free movement of people?
Wouldn't be what I wanted but better than being trapped inside. If people really don't like it, they'll vote in a party that will do something about it. That wasn't possible before unless Ukip won a majority which was never going to happen.
It's like being out of prison but having to wear a tag! Annoying but better than before
Any kind of leave is better than any kind of remain. Simply.
That is utterly barking mad and demonstrates neatly just how crazed Europhobes are.
Or just how deluded EUphiles like you are about what any remain vote would have done to our stance on the EU. I'd have taken staying if there was no referendum, but not staying after giving the EU a democratic seal of approval, no matter how narrow.
I would rather live in a U.K. with Corbyn in charge saying free movement with no control from anywhere as long as we were outside the EU. At least we could get rid of him.
Cameron feeling sick over EU courts saying we had to give prisoners the vote, Cameron promising to get migration numbers down to the tens of thousands and increasing them.... all lies, all promises with ready made excuses. Saying something will happen someday, but not now because the EU won't let us... weasel words. At least that can't happen now.
Do you really think the politicians won't be blaming the EU for decades to come?
So, just to clarify with our more intense Leavers, is it your view that if and when the Article 50 negotiations start the public's perception of the government's handling of Brexit is going to soar?
Well, it's a view I suppose.
Intense leavers are just glad we left, & probably pleasantly surprised so many people agreed with them.
I doubt many thought it would be a swift or easy process. But the vote was won, that's the important thing
Would you be happy if we left and part of the leaving agreement was continued free movement of people?
Wouldn't be what I wanted but better than being trapped inside. If people really don't like it, they'll vote in a party that will do something about it. That wasn't possible before unless Ukip won a majority which was never going to happen.
It's like being out of prison but having to wear a tag! Annoying but better than before
Any kind of leave is better than any kind of remain. Simply.
That is utterly barking mad and demonstrates neatly just how crazed Europhobes are.
Or just how deluded EUphiles like you are about what any remain vote would have done to our stance on the EU. I'd have taken staying if there was no referendum, but not staying after giving the EU a democratic seal of approval, no matter how narrow.
Your inability to contemplate the idea of even the most basic of cost benefit analyses marks you and those who think like you as irredeemable cretins.
Yeah, but you're a traitor.
Continued page 523
The best hope for the 'traitors' is that the politicians who want Brexit aren't up to it, and the people who delivered the majority will get sick of it.
Brexit will collapse under the weight of its own contradictions eventually, like Soviet communism. This is the last hurrah for British Euroscepticism so enjoy it while it lasts.
So, just to clarify with our more intense Leavers, is it your view that if and when the Article 50 negotiations start the public's perception of the government's handling of Brexit is going to soar?
Well, it's a view I suppose.
Intense leavers are just glad we left, & probably pleasantly surprised so many people agreed with them.
I doubt many thought it would be a swift or easy process. But the vote was won, that's the important thing
Would you be happy if we left and part of the leaving agreement was continued free movement of people?
Wouldn't be what I wanted but better than being trapped inside. If people really don't like it, they'll vote in a party that will do something about it. That wasn't possible before unless Ukip won a majority which was never going to happen.
It's like being out of prison but having to wear a tag! Annoying but better than before
Any kind of leave is better than any kind of remain. Simply.
That is utterly barking mad and demonstrates neatly just how crazed Europhobes are.
Or just how deluded EUphiles like you are about what any remain vote would have done to our stance on the EU. I'd have taken staying if there was no referendum, but not staying after giving the EU a democratic seal of approval, no matter how narrow.
I would rather live in a U.K. with Corbyn in charge saying free movement with no control from anywhere as long as we were outside the EU. At least we could get rid of him.
Cameron feeling sick over EU courts saying we had to give prisoners the vote, Cameron promising to get migration numbers down to the tens of thousands and increasing them.... all lies, all promises with ready made excuses. Saying something will happen someday, but not now because the EU won't let us... weasel words. At least that can't happen now.
Votes for prisoners was successfully blocked by the UK, so hardly evidence of our weakness in the EU.
Migration down to the 10s of thousands was never met but given we never even got the ex-EU migration number we do control down, its clear that the drive for immigration was not just an EU imposition.
Also, as a has been said elsewhere, the commitment to migration down to the 10s of thousands should have been taken seriously but not literally.
I'm not callling people who would prefer to live under the EU names or casting aspersions on them, each to their own. It's a subjective matter really, but we had a vote and the result is the result.
So, just to clarify with our more intense Leavers, is it your view that if and when the Article 50 negotiations start the public's perception of the government's handling of Brexit is going to soar?
Well, it's a view I suppose.
Intense leavers are just glad we left, & probably pleasantly surprised so many people agreed with them.
I doubt many thought it would be a swift or easy process. But the vote was won, that's the important thing
Would you be happy if we left and part of the leaving agreement was continued free movement of people?
Wouldn't be what I wanted but better than being trapped inside. If people really don't like it, they'll vote in a party that will do something about it. That wasn't possible before unless Ukip won a majority which was never going to happen.
It's like being out of prison but having to wear a tag! Annoying but better than before
Any kind of leave is better than any kind of remain. Simply.
That is utterly barking mad and demonstrates neatly just how crazed Europhobes are.
Or just how deluded EUphiles like you are about what any remain vote would have done to our stance on the EU. I'd have taken staying if there was no referendum, but not staying after giving the EU a democratic seal of approval, no matter how narrow.
I would rather live in a U.K. with Corbyn in charge saying free movement with no control from anywhere as long as we were outside the EU. At least we could get rid of him.
Cameron feeling sick over EU courts saying we had to give prisoners the vote, Cameron promising to get migration numbers down to the tens of thousands and increasing them.... all lies, all promises with ready made excuses. Saying something will happen someday, but not now because the EU won't let us... weasel words. At least that can't happen now.
Votes for prisoners was successfully blocked by the UK, so hardly evidence of our weakness in the EU.
Migration down to the 10s of thousands was never met but given we never even got the ex-EU migration number we do control down, its clear that the drive for immigration was not just an EU imposition.
Also, as a has been said elsewhere, the commitment to migration down to the 10s of thousands should have been taken seriously but not literally.
Was it? I thought the court still held the view that a blanket ban was not compatible with ECHR.
The public is noticing that the government is clueless about Brexit. Only the current absence of alternatives is sustaining the Conservatives in the polls.
Well the public did vote for Brexit
Quite. The public was clueless about Bexit, probably. At least in terms of outcomes.
And equally clueless about the outcome of Remain. Which if it had won, would no doubt be facing a polling catastrophe, as opposed to the remarkable lack of buyers' remorse for Brexit, despite everyone from the Chancellor of the Exchequer down to the Lib Dems trying to pour cold water on the country's chances. Once again a case of the public being more sensible than their rulers.
So, just to clarify with our more intense Leavers, is it your view that if and when the Article 50 negotiations start the public's perception of the government's handling of Brexit is going to soar?
Well, it's a view I suppose.
Intense leavers are just glad we left, & probably pleasantly surprised so many people agreed with them.
I doubt many thought it would be a swift or easy process. But the vote was won, that's the important thing
Would you be happy if we left and part of the leaving agreement was continued free movement of people?
Wouldn't be what I wanted but better than being trapped inside. If people really don't like it, they'll vote in a party that will do something about it. That wasn't possible before unless Ukip won a majority which was never going to happen.
It's like being out of prison but having to wear a tag! Annoying but better than before
Any kind of leave is better than any kind of remain. Simply.
That is utterly barking mad and demonstrates neatly just how crazed Europhobes are.
Or just how deluded EUphiles like you are about what any remain vote would have done to our stance on the EU. I'd have taken staying if there was no referendum, but not staying after giving the EU a democratic seal of approval, no matter how narrow.
Your inability to contemplate the idea of even the most basic of cost benefit analyses marks you and those who think like you as irredeemable cretins.
And yet you'd take the reverse scenario, even if the eventual cost was signing up to the Eurozone, EU Army and all the rest of that rubbish. Who hasn't done the cost benefit analysis? A remain vote, any remain vote, would have completely undermined out defence posture within the EU for less integration. I said before the referendum a remain vote would have to result in us going in all guns blazing for the EU, sign up to every directive and join the EMU. After a democratic vote our half-in half-out approach would have been even less sustainable.
Now there you are not even able to understand your own words. Far from being able to contemplate any kind of remain, you can only imagine one. All bar the swivel-eyed will be able to see that your concept of inevitable full-European Remain as the only conceivable Remain is nonsensical.
Well I voted to leave, after all. Also, all roads of remain votes had just one destination, you are deluding yourself if you believed otherwise.
So, just to clarify with our more intense Leavers, is it your view that if and when the Article 50 negotiations start the public's perception of the government's handling of Brexit is going to soar?
Well, it's a view I suppose.
In
Would you be happy if we left and part of the leaving agreement was continued free movement of people?
Wouldn't be what I wanted but better than being trapped inside. If people really don't like it, they'll vote in a party that will do something about it. That wasn't possible before unless Ukip won a majority which was never going to happen.
It's like being out of prison but having to wear a tag! Annoying but better than before
Any kind of leave is better than any kind of remain. Simply.
That is utterly barking mad and demonstrates neatly just how crazed Europhobes are.
Or just how deluded EUphiles like you are about what any remain vote would have done to our stance on the EU. I'd have taken staying if there was no referendum, but not staying after giving the EU a democratic seal of approval, no matter how narrow.
I would rather live in a U.K. with Corbyn in charge saying free movement with no control from anywhere as long as we were outside the EU. At least we could get rid of him.
Cameron feeling sick over EU courts saying we had to give prisoners the vote, Cameron promising to get migration numbers down to the tens of thousands and increasing them.... all lies, all promises with ready made excuses. Saying something will happen someday, but not now because the EU won't let us... weasel words. At least that can't happen now.
Votes for prisoners was successfully blocked by the UK, so hardly evidence of our weakness in the EU.
Migration down to the 10s of thousands was never met but given we never even got the ex-EU migration number we do control down, its clear that the drive for immigration was not just an EU imposition.
Also, as a has been said elsewhere, the commitment to migration down to the 10s of thousands should have been taken seriously but not literally.
I'm not callling people who would prefer to live under the EU names or casting aspersions on them, each to their own. It's a subjective matter really, but we had a vote and the result is the result.
How does living under the EU touch your life, Sam?
So, just to clarify with our more intense Leavers, is it your view that if and when the Article 50 negotiations start the public's perception of the government's handling of Brexit is going to soar?
Well, it's a view I suppose.
Intense leavers are just glad we left, & probably pleasantly surprised so many people agreed with them.
I doubt many thought it would be a swift or easy process. But the vote was won, that's the important thing
Would you be happy if we left and part of the leaving agreement was continued free movement of people?
Wouldn't be what I wanted but better than being trapped inside. If people really don't like it, they'll vote in a party that will do something about it. That wasn't possible before unless Ukip won a majority which was never going to happen.
It's like being out of prison but having to wear a tag! Annoying but better than before
Any kind of leave is better than any kind of remain. Simply.
That is utterly barking mad and demonstrates neatly just how crazed Europhobes are.
Or just how deluded EUphiles like you are about what any remain vote would have done to our stance on the EU. I'd have taken staying if there was no referendum, but not staying after giving the EU a democratic seal of approval, no matter how narrow.
Your inability to contemplate the idea of even the most basic of cost benefit analyses marks you and those who think like you as irredeemable cretins.
Yeah, but you're a traitor.
Continued page 523
The best hope for the 'traitors' is that the politicians who want Brexit aren't up to it, and the people who delivered the majority will get sick of it.
Brexit will collapse under the weight of its own contradictions eventually, like Soviet communism. This is the last hurrah for British Euroscepticism so enjoy it while it lasts.
LOL. You really do think that this isn't going to happen, don't you? The government know that there will be 100 or 200 UKIP seats at the next election if Brexit doesn't happen. It's happening, get used to it.
It was left as a stalemate. The ECHR believed there shouldn't be a blanket ban of prisoner voting but also that prisoners shouldn't receive any compensation for being denied this right and that the government shouldn't be forced to comply.
It was left as a stalemate. The ECHR believed there shouldn't be a blanket ban of prisoner voting but also that prisoners shouldn't receive any compensation for being denied this right and that the government shouldn't be forced to comply.
A very French sort of situation.
So it wasn't successfully blocked. We are still technically in breach of the ECHR. The court ruled that the ban was only lawful for those convicted of serious crimes:
So, just to clarify with our more intense Leavers, is it your view that if and when the Article 50 negotiations start the public's perception of the government's handling of Brexit is going to soar?
Well, it's a view I suppose.
In
Would you be happy if we left and part of the leaving agreement was continued free movement of people?
It's like being out of prison but having to wear a tag! Annoying but better than before
Any kind of leave is better than any kind of remain. Simply.
That is utterly barking mad and demonstrates neatly just how crazed Europhobes are.
Or just how deluded EUphiles like you are about what any remain vote would have done to our stance on the EU. I'd have taken staying if there was no referendum, but not staying after giving the EU a democratic seal of approval, no matter how narrow.
I would rather live in a U.K. with Corbyn in charge saying free movement with no control from anywhere as long as we were outside the EU. At least we could get rid of him.
Cameron feeling sick over EU courts saying we had to give prisoners the vote, Cameron promising to get migration numbers down to the tens of thousands and increasing them.... all lies, all promises with ready made excuses. Saying something will happen someday, but not now because the EU won't let us... weasel words. At least that can't happen now.
Votes for prisoners was successfully blocked by the UK, so hardly evidence of our weakness in the EU.
Migration down to the 10s of thousands was never met but given we never even got the ex-EU migration number we do control down, its clear that the drive for immigration was not just an EU imposition.
Also, as a has been said elsewhere, the commitment to migration down to the 10s of thousands should have been taken seriously but not literally.
I'm not callling people who would prefer to live under the EU names or casting aspersions on them, each to their own. It's a subjective matter really, but we had a vote and the result is the result.
How does living under the EU touch your life, Sam?
The reasons that I wanted to leave don't affect me directly, maybe food is cheaper? And Car washes
More single women too!
But it's not about me it's about what I thinks best for the country especially the poorest whose wages have been suppressed by cheap eu labourwhile their bosses reaped the rewards
Theresa May's satisfaction ratings will rise when she eventually triggers Article 50, simply because the current apparent stasis (even though it might well be unavoidable) satifies no-one.
The Con -> UKIP drift will probably be reversed and I think the Lab -> LD as well. Once leaving becomes a reality the parties of ultra-leave and ultra-remain will both suffer.
If Article 50 is revocable then Remain parties can only be strengthened by the chaos and betrayal that will ensue during the negotiation period.
That depends on who ends up most blamed for that chaos. The government might stay diplomatically quiet but its allies in the media and on the backbenchers will happily point their fingers across the Channel. Whether the public buys is another question and will turn on whether the government's looking reasonable and competent.
It's nailed on that they will blame others. But blame is not Brexit success. The fact that some are already laying the blame when previously they said that the EU and the rest of the world will be DESPERATE to give us what want, indicates a lack of confidence in their own project IMO. And in any case any mess will have to be sorted out and that involves the EU and the other parties
It was left as a stalemate. The ECHR believed there shouldn't be a blanket ban of prisoner voting but also that prisoners shouldn't receive any compensation for being denied this right and that the government shouldn't be forced to comply.
A very French sort of situation.
So it wasn't successfully blocked. We are still technically in breach of the ECHR. The court ruled that the ban was only lawful for those convicted of serious crimes:
It was left as a stalemate. The ECHR believed there shouldn't be a blanket ban of prisoner voting but also that prisoners shouldn't receive any compensation for being denied this right and that the government shouldn't be forced to comply.
A very French sort of situation.
So it wasn't successfully blocked. We are still technically in breach of the ECHR. The court ruled that the ban was only lawful for those convicted of serious crimes:
It was left as a stalemate. The ECHR believed there shouldn't be a blanket ban of prisoner voting but also that prisoners shouldn't receive any compensation for being denied this right and that the government shouldn't be forced to comply.
A very French sort of situation.
So it wasn't successfully blocked. We are still technically in breach of the ECHR. The court ruled that the ban was only lawful for those convicted of serious crimes:
So, just to clarify with our more intense Leavers, is it your view that if and when the Article 50 negotiations start the public's perception of the government's handling of Brexit is going to soar?
Well, it's a view I suppose.
Intense lught it would be a swift or easy process. But the vote was won, that's the important thing
Would you be happy if we left and part of the leaving agreement was continued free movement of people?
Woving to wear a tag! Annoying but better than before
Any kind of leave is better than any kind of remain. Simply.
That is utterly barking mad and demonstrates neatly just how crazed Europhobes are.
Or just how deluded EUphiles like you are about what any remain vote would have done to our stance on the EU. I'd have taken staying if there was no referendum, but not staying after giving the EU a democratic seal of approval, no matter how narrow.
Your inability to contemplate the idea of even the most basic of cost benefit analyses marks you and those who think like you as irredeemable cretins.
Yeah, but you're a traitor.
Continued page 523
The best hope for the 'traitors' is that the politicians who want Brexit aren't up to it, and the people who delivered the majority will get sick of it.
Brexit will collapse under the weight of its own contradictions eventually, like Soviet communism. This is the last hurrah for British Euroscepticism so enjoy it while it lasts.
lol. Now that's proper BONKERS, that is. Pure 100% single source, chateau-bottled David Icke. You sound like the most insane of eurosceptics, without even realising.
I have a theory about people like you and Meeks - you sad, unpleasant creatures.
I reckon middle class liberal Remainers like you are acting so weirdly & hysterically about Brexit because, for you, the EU had, in a sense, replaced Faith.
That is to say: for certain atheist liberal internationalists, the EU was part of a post-religious belief structure. So Brexit feels like heresy.
Therefore you guys will NEVER be reconciled to Brexit. It will ALWAYS be wrong (even if Brexit Britain prospers). It was and is a blasphemy.
In that light, I feel kinda sorry for you. Sometimes.
The EU is the Pope, and Brexit is the reformation?
I reckon middle class liberal Remainers like you are acting so weirdly & hysterically about Brexit because, for you, the EU had, in a sense, replaced Faith.
That is to say: for certain atheist liberal internationalists, the EU was part of a post-religious belief structure. So Brexit feels like heresy.
Therefore you guys will NEVER be reconciled to Brexit. It will ALWAYS be wrong (even if Brexit Britain prospers). It was and is a blasphemy.
It's the Brexiteers that are following their cult leaders to the promised land.
Wait till they find out what was in the Kool Aid...
This one from SeanT took the bourbon biscuit: "That is to say: for certain atheist liberal internationalists, the EU was part of a post-religious belief structure. So Brexit feels like heresy."
It was left as a stalemate. The ECHR believed there shouldn't be a blanket ban of prisoner voting but also that prisoners shouldn't receive any compensation for being denied this right and that the government shouldn't be forced to comply.
A very French sort of situation.
So it wasn't successfully blocked. We are still technically in breach of the ECHR. The court ruled that the ban was only lawful for those convicted of serious crimes:
So, just to clarify with our more intense Leavers, is it your view that if and when the Article 50 negotiations start the public's perception of the government's handling of Brexit is going to soar?
Well, it's a view I suppose.
In
Would you be happy if we left and part of the leaving agreement was continued free movement of people?
It's like being out of prison but having to wear a tag! Annoying but better than before
Any kind of leave is better than any kind of remain. Simply.
That is utterly barking mad and demonstrates neatly just how crazed Europhobes are.
Or just how deluded EUphiles like you are about what any remain vote would have done to our stance on the EU. I'd have taken staying if there was no referendum, but not staying after giving the EU a democratic seal of approval, no matter how narrow.
I would rather live in a U.K. with Corbyn in charge saying free movement with no control from anywhere as long as we were outside the EU. At least we could get rid of him.
Cameron feeling sick over EU courts saying we had to give prisoners the vote, Cameron promising to get migration numbers down to the tens of thousands and increasing them.... all lies, all promises with ready made excuses. Saying something will happen someday, but not now because the EU won't let us... weasel words. At least that can't happen now.
Votes fo
I'm not callling people who would prefer to live under the EU names or casting aspersions on them, each to their own. It's a subjective matter really, but we had a vote and the result is the result.
How does living under the EU touch your life, Sam?
The reasons that I wanted to leave don't affect me directly, maybe food is cheaper? Car washes too!
But it's not about me it's about what I thinks best for the country especially the poorest whose wages have been suppressed by cheap eu labourwhile their bosses reaped the rewards
So anecdotal, then, and it doesn't affect you at all.
Not that you'd know it from OGH spin perspective - but this is the headline on the IPSOS-Mori website:
Britons happy with May’s handling of Brexit – but not so much with her government or Boris Johnson
Even with a less than positive outlook for her own party Theresa May still has strong support of the public with half satisfied in her doing her job as Prime Minister (50%, although down 4 points since last month) while just a quarter (26%) say they are satisfied with Labour leader Jeremy Corbyn. Theresa May also receives much stronger backing from her party supporters than Mr Corbyn. Eight in ten (82%) Conservative supporters say they are satisfied with Ms May whereas half (51%) of Labour supporters are satisfied with Jeremy Corbyn. Liberal Democrat leader Tim Farron’s rating has improved this month with 27% saying they are satisfied with him and 28% dissatisfied (although 45% say ‘don’t know’) while one in five (18%) are satisfied with newly crowned UKIP leader Paul Nuttall (35% dissatisfied - and 47% say ‘don’t know’).
Gideon Skinner, Head of Political Research at Ipsos MORI, said: Theresa May’s honeymoon is mirrored in the public’s views of her handling of Brexit, but once you get past her personal popularity, ratings of her government on the issue - and her Foreign Secretary - are much lower. In fact, both the main parties are seen as divided on how to handle Britain’s exit from the European Union, even among their own supporters. Meanwhile, there are some small signs of improvement for the LibDems, following on from their victory in Richmond Park which was a positive news story for them after their lows in recent years. But as always no-one should get carried away from just one poll – there’s still a very long way for them to go, and it could just be a short-term effect. The broader picture of a clear Conservative lead over Labour remains the same.
This one from SeanT took the bourbon biscuit: "That is to say: for certain atheist liberal internationalists, the EU was part of a post-religious belief structure. So Brexit feels like heresy."
Cannot say I agree with the thrust of the point there, but the histrionics have been pretty amazing. We knew a subset of Leavers would be, as some always were, but not so much some of the Remainers. It's notable that some of the more usually hysterical people who happen to be leavers have been more measured than some remainers who are usually more measured and are now often hysterical (the always hysterical on both sides remain unchanged).
This one from SeanT took the bourbon biscuit: "That is to say: for certain atheist liberal internationalists, the EU was part of a post-religious belief structure. So Brexit feels like heresy."
I have seen countless people freaking out about their European identity being taken away from them. Complaining about their European citizenship being stripped away against their will. All very fanatical.
This one from SeanT took the bourbon biscuit: "That is to say: for certain atheist liberal internationalists, the EU was part of a post-religious belief structure. So Brexit feels like heresy."
Cannot say I agree with the thrust of the point there, but the histrionics have been pretty amazing. We knew a subset of Leavers would be, as some always were, but not so much some of the Remainers. It's notable that some of the more usually hysterical people who happen to be leavers have been more measured than some remainers who are usually more measured and are now often hysterical (the always hysterical on both sides remain unchanged).
The hysterical posts on both sides are becoming very, very boring.
lol. Now that's proper BONKERS, that is. Pure 100% single source, chateau-bottled David Icke. You sound like the most insane of eurosceptics, without even realising.
I have theory about people like you and Meeks - you sad, unpleasant creatures.
I reckon middle class liberal Remainers like you are acting so weirdly & hysterically about Brexit because, for you, the EU had, in a sense, replaced Faith.
That is to say: for certain atheist liberal internationalists, the EU was part of a post-religious belief structure. So Brexit feels like heresy.
Therefore you guys will NEVER be reconciled to Brexit. It will ALWAYS be wrong (even if Brexit Britain prospers). It was and is a blasphemy.
In that light, I feel kinda sorry for you. Sometimes.
Why do I dislike Brexit so much? It's nothing to do with any emotional attachment to the EU. There's much about the EU to dislike and little to love.
No, the reason I dislike Brexit so much is because it is spawned by a repulsive xenophobia, a barely suppressed hatred of foreigners (be they immigrants, other Europeans or Muslims) and dressed up as patriotism. Vile and immoral gurning dullards have dared to take my identity as a Briton and have turned it into something backward-looking, racist, dreary and frightened.
It sickens me. People like you sicken me. Your crazed monomania has destroyed the dignity of this once-decent country.
So no, why do I dislike Brexit so much? It's because of odious shits like you.
So, just to clarify with our more intense Leavers, is it your view that if and when the Article 50 negotiations start the public's perception of the government's handling of Brexit is going to soar?
Well, it's a view I suppose.
In
Would you be happy if we left and part of the leaving agreement was continued free movement of people?
It's like being out of prison but having to wear a tag! Annoying but better than before
Any kind of leave is better than any kind of remain. Simply.
That is utterly barking mad and demonstrates neatly just how crazed Europhobes are.
Or just how deluded EUphiles like you are about what any remain vote would have done to our stance on the EU. I'd have taken staying if there was no referendum, but not staying after giving the EU a democratic seal of approval, no matter how narrow.
I words. At least that can't happen now.
Votes fo
I'm not callling people who would prefer to live under the EU names or casting aspersions on them, each to their own. It's a subjective matter really, but we had a vote and the result is the result.
How does living under the EU touch your life, Sam?
The reasons that I wanted to leave don't affect me directly, maybe food is cheaper? Car washes too!
But it's not about me it's about what I thinks best for the country especially the poorest whose wages have been suppressed by cheap eu labourwhile their bosses reaped the rewards
So anecdotal, then, and it doesn't affect you at all.
Well not wrong according to that guy actually, just not as bad as people made out.
What a strange economic outcome eh? Millions of people from poor countries taking minimum wage jobs doesn't lead to lower wages.
As I say I'd vote on what I think is best for people who are struggling, not for my own self interest or bank balance. I'd have thought that was a nice thing, funny you see it as a fault
Would you be happy if we left and part of the leaving agreement was continued free movement of people?
It's like being out of prison but having to wear a tag! Annoying but better than before
Any kind of leave is better than any kind of remain. Simply.
That is utterly barking mad and demonstrates neatly just how crazed Europhobes are.
Or just how deluded EUphiles like you are about what any remain vote would have done to our stance on the EU. I'd have taken staying if there was no referendum, but not staying after giving the EU a democratic seal of approval, no matter how narrow.
I would rather live in a U.K. with Corbyn in charge saying free movement with no control from anywhere as long as we were outside the EU. At least we could get rid of him.
Cameron feeling sick over EU courts saying we had to give prisoners the vote, Cameron promising to get migration numbers down to the tens of thousands and increasing them.... all lies, all promises with ready made excuses. Saying something will happen someday, but not now because the EU won't let us... weasel words. At least that can't happen now.
Votes fo
I'm not callling people who would prefer to live under the EU names or casting aspersions on them, each to their own. It's a subjective matter really, but we had a vote and the result is the result.
How does living under the EU touch your life, Sam?
The reasons that I wanted to leave don't affect me directly, maybe food is cheaper? Car washes too!
But it's not about me it's about what I thinks best for the country especially the poorest whose wages have been suppressed by cheap eu labourwhile their bosses reaped the rewards
So anecdotal, then, and it doesn't affect you at all.
That's very interesting. I see that that the decline in trade-union power is cited as having a greater impact on the wages of the poor than immigration. So why aren't the Leavers calling for the reversal of the Thatcher reforms?
Bloomberg reporting euro at 1.0416 to dollar (lowest since 2003) and falling while the pound stable at about 1.20 euro. Bloomberg also forecasting euro dollar rate to fall 1.02 in first quarter and Standard Charter forecasting 98 US cents, while pound maintains around 1.20
Analysis said that as the euro and pound go in opposite directions the inflation pressures on the UK will diminish contradicting the OBR and IFS gloomy forecasts for UK inflation.
Seems sensible conclusion and where does it leave the euro and the EU
Mind you, I thought Maguire had lost the plot earlier today when he compared Corbyn meeting Adams just after the Brighton bombing with the queen meeting MacGuinness over a decade after Good Friday.....
Would you be happy if we left and part of the leaving agreement was continued free movement of people?
It's like being out of prison but having to wear a tag! Annoying but better than before
Any kind of leave is better than any kind of remain. Simply.
That is utterly barking mad and demonstrates neatly just how crazed Europhobes are.
Or just how deluded EUphiles like you are about what any remain vote would have done to our stance on the EU. I'd have taken staying if there was no referendum, but not staying after giving the EU a democratic seal of approval, no matter how narrow.
I would rather live in a U.K. with Corbyn in charge saying free movement with no control from anywhere as long as we were outside the EU. At least we could get rid of him.
ill happen someday, but not now because the EU won't let us... weasel words. At least that can't happen now.
Votes fo
I'm not callling people who would prefer to live under the EU names or casting aspersions on them, each to their own. It's a subjective matter really, but we had a vote and the result is the result.
How does living under the EU touch your life, Sam?
The reasons that I wanted to leave don't affect me directly, maybe food is cheaper? Car washes too!
But it's not about me it's about what I thinks best for the country especially the poorest whose wages have been suppressed by cheap eu labourwhile their bosses reaped the rewards
So anecdotal, then, and it doesn't affect you at all.
That's very interesting. I see that that the decline in trade-union power is cited as having a greater impact on the wages of the poor than immigration. So why aren't the Leavers calling for the reversal of the Thatcher reforms?
It's not inconsistent with what my friends who compete with eu migrants say - no wage rise for 8 years plus less job security
The curse of short-termism is very much with us. The Brexit exercise is a medium term project, requiring much investigation into the possibilities. If the Ipsos Morons think they are providing a public service by asking the question every few days they are deluded or short of things to say or generate revenue.
Surprised there has been no discussion of Henry Poole, which is the classiest and most discreet of the Saville Row tailors - I believe it is the only one still in the founder family hands (or at least a cousin of the founder's family).
(Personally, I use Byrne and Burge - Joshua Byrne was the last apprentice to study under the great Arthur Catchpole at Henry Poole - Joshua set up B&B in 2007 when Arthur finally retired)
No matter how many times it is pointed out that the ECHR and its bonkers ruling on votes for prisoners has absolutely zilch to do with the European Union, the myth persists, and gets repeated and reinforced, that it does.
That's very interesting. I see that that the decline in trade-union power is cited as having a greater impact on the wages of the poor than immigration. So why aren't the Leavers calling for the reversal of the Thatcher reforms?
The guy who wrote that article has an agenda, so I wouldn't take it too seriously.
"NIESR in the news". These are the kind of headlines they generate:
* Brexit latest: Inflation hits highest since 2014
* Bank of England to put interest rates on hold amid fears of crippling inflation in 2017
* Weak pound to put the brakes on household spending
Sam Coates on the May no mates video: As painful as this is to watch, it will probably boost Theresa May's poll and approval rating.
On a personal level, while I suspect someone like Blair, Brown or Cameron would find that intimidating, I suspect a little more steel entered May's spine this morning.....
lol. Now that's proper BONKERS, that is. Pure 100% single source, chateau-bottled David Icke. You sound like the most insane of eurosceptics, without even realising.
I have theory about people like you and Meeks - you sad, unpleasant creatures.
I reckon middle class liberal Remainers like you are acting so weirdly & hysterically about Brexit because, for you, the EU had, in a sense, replaced Faith.
That is to say: for certain atheist liberal internationalists, the EU was part of a post-religious belief structure. So Brexit feels like heresy.
Therefore you guys will NEVER be reconciled to Brexit. It will ALWAYS be wrong (even if Brexit Britain prospers). It was and is a blasphemy.
In that light, I feel kinda sorry for you. Sometimes.
Why do I dislike Brexit so much? It's nothing to do with any emotional attachment to the EU. There's much about the EU to dislike and little to love.
No, the reason I dislike Brexit so much is because it is spawned by a repulsive xenophobia, a barely suppressed hatred of foreigners (be they immigrants, other Europeans or Muslims) and dressed up as patriotism. Vile and immoral gurning dullards have dared to take my identity as a Briton and have turned it into something backward-looking, racist, dreary and frightened.
It sickens me. People like you sicken me. Your crazed monomania has destroyed the dignity of this once-decent country.
So no, why do I dislike Brexit so much? It's because of odious shits like you.
Wouldn't be what I wanted but better than being trapped inside. If people really don't like it, they'll vote in a party that will do something about it. That wasn't possible before unless Ukip won a majority which was never going to happen.
It's like being out of prison but having to wear a tag! Annoying but better than before
Any kind of leave is better than any kind of remain. Simply.
That is utterly barking mad and demonstrates neatly just how crazed Europhobes are.
Or just how deluded EUphiles like you are about what any remain vote would have done to our stance on the EU. I'd have taken staying if there was no referendum, but not staying after giving the EU a democratic seal of approval, no matter how narrow.
I would rather live in a U.K. with Corbyn in charge saying free movement with no control from anywhere as long as we were outside the EU. At least we could get rid of him.
Cameron feeling sick over EU courts saying we had to give prisoners the vote, Cameron promising to get migration numbers down to the tens of thousands and increasing them.... all lies, all promises with ready made excuses. Saying something will happen someday, but not now because the EU won't let us... weasel words. At least that can't happen now.
Votes for prisoners was successfully blocked by the UK, so hardly evidence of our weakness in the EU.
Migration down to the 10s of thousands was never met but given we never even got the ex-EU migration number we do control down, its clear that the drive for immigration was not just an EU imposition.
Also, as a has been said elsewhere, the commitment to migration down to the 10s of thousands should have been taken seriously but not literally.
Was it? I thought the court still held the view that a blanket ban was not compatible with ECHR.
That was my understanding too. However, I also think it's the case that it's down to the UK to determine how to implement that ruling. At present, the HRA means that there's some force behind a ECtHR ruling directly into UK law but that Act could be repealed or amended so that we go back to the pre-1998(?) position of it being essentially advisory. Further, the UK has absolute discretion over how it sets up the franchise for its own elections.
By contrast, while the UK is a member of the EU, for European elections at least, the UK is not necessarily supreme in determining who could vote because the legal case could ultimately be determined by the CJEU, implementing a ECtHR ruling.
That said, I'm not a lawyer and my memory of the case is hazy.
Sam Coates on the May no mates video: As painful as this is to watch, it will probably boost Theresa May's poll and approval rating.
On a personal level, while I suspect someone like Blair, Brown or Cameron would find that intimidating, I suspect a little more steel entered May's spine this morning.....
Pity is a very dangerous emotion for Prime Ministers to engender.
Sam Coates on the May no mates video: As painful as this is to watch, it will probably boost Theresa May's poll and approval rating.
On a personal level, while I suspect someone like Blair, Brown or Cameron would find that intimidating, I suspect a little more steel entered May's spine this morning.....
Pity is a very dangerous emotion for Prime Ministers to engender.
In your eyes. Others may see it as 'boy's club boorishness'.....
'Pity is a very dangerous emotion for a Prime Minister'
The real story is the pitiful leaders in Europe who are acting like spoilt children.
They need to grow up and this is exactly the attitude and disrespect to our Prime Minister and Country that will result in a surge of support for us to leave as soon as possiible
She will be dubbed Theresa Nomaytes (geddit?) and it you are a member of the liberal metropolitan elite party in London then this vindicates your view that Britain has voted to cut itself off from civilisation.
It’s a funny video, although not in the way May’s opponents might think. Funny meaning odd, curious, in that your response to it is probably shaped by your existing view of May and Brexit.
For Leavers – and quite a few Remainers who accept the reality that Brexit will happen and no amount of shenanigans by Blair, Mandelson and Clegg (what a dream team!) will stop it - a British Prime Minister being treated in a rude fashion will only encourage Brits to say “if that’s your attitude then please get stuffed” to the EU.
Alastair Meeks: "No, the reason I dislike Brexit so much is because it is spawned by a repulsive xenophobia, a barely suppressed hatred of foreigners (be they immigrants, other Europeans or Muslims) and dressed up as patriotism. Vile and immoral gurning dullards have dared to take my identity as a Briton and have turned it into something backward-looking, racist, dreary and frightened.
It sickens me. People like you sicken me. Your crazed monomania has destroyed the dignity of this once-decent country.
So no, why do I dislike Brexit so much? It's because of odious shits like you."
You do realise that it is democracy you are shaking your fist against?
If all these issues were as you paint them, then I can see that - having been unable to articulate persuasive counter-arguments during the referendum campaign - that is going to hurt. Staying in the EU was such a slam dunk, yet you still couldn't find the hoop.
Maybe you should take some time off, to reflect why you were such a poor advocate. That your failure to win the argument has destroyed the dignity of this once-decent country. What with you being a lawyer and that.
She will be dubbed Theresa Nomaytes (geddit?) and it you are a member of the liberal metropolitan elite party in London then this vindicates your view that Britain has voted to cut itself off from civilisation.
It’s a funny video, although not in the way May’s opponents might think. Funny meaning odd, curious, in that your response to it is probably shaped by your existing view of May and Brexit.
For Leavers – and quite a few Remainers who accept the reality that Brexit will happen and no amount of shenanigans by Blair, Mandelson and Clegg (what a dream team!) will stop it - a British Prime Minister being treated in a rude fashion will only encourage Brits to say “if that’s your attitude then please get stuffed” to the EU.
This one from SeanT took the bourbon biscuit: "That is to say: for certain atheist liberal internationalists, the EU was part of a post-religious belief structure. So Brexit feels like heresy."
Cannot say I agree with the thrust of the point there, but the histrionics have been pretty amazing. We knew a subset of Leavers would be, as some always were, but not so much some of the Remainers. It's notable that some of the more usually hysterical people who happen to be leavers have been more measured than some remainers who are usually more measured and are now often hysterical (the always hysterical on both sides remain unchanged).
I am toying with the idea that 'It's not Post-Truth; it's Post-Liberal'. Strip out a lot of waffle and evidence and the punchline is that for some who've failed to understand the changing world these last ten years, the liberal worldview *is* the only truth, hence the confusion. (I exaggerate a little; there's obviously more nuance to it than that but I think there's a kernel of an idea in it).
Alastair Meeks: "No, the reason I dislike Brexit so much is because it is spawned by a repulsive xenophobia, a barely suppressed hatred of foreigners (be they immigrants, other Europeans or Muslims) and dressed up as patriotism. Vile and immoral gurning dullards have dared to take my identity as a Briton and have turned it into something backward-looking, racist, dreary and frightened.
It sickens me. People like you sicken me. Your crazed monomania has destroyed the dignity of this once-decent country.
So no, why do I dislike Brexit so much? It's because of odious shits like you."
You do realise that it is democracy you are shaking your fist against?
If all these issues were as you paint them, then I can see that - having been unable to articulate persuasive counter-arguments during the referendum campaign - that is going to hurt. Staying in the EU was such a slam dunk, yet you still couldn't find the hoop.
Maybe you should take some time off, to reflect why you were such a poor advocate. That your failure to win the argument has destroyed the dignity of this once-decent country. What with you being a lawyer and that.
I repeatedly noted in the referendum campaign that if Leave were to stand a chance of winning it was by majoring on immigration. That makes it no less ugly and the people who were content to do so no less morally disgraced.
I have no doubt that eventually some of the thoughtful Leavers will feel a burning shame for ever having been associated with the campaign that they fought for.
I have no doubt that eventually some of the thoughtful Leavers will feel a burning shame for ever having been associated with the campaign that they fought for.
Dan Hannan has skipped the shame part and moved straight to pretending he was part of a different campaign.
Alastair Meeks: "No, the reason I dislike Brexit so much is because it is spawned by a repulsive xenophobia, a barely suppressed hatred of foreigners (be they immigrants, other Europeans or Muslims) and dressed up as patriotism. Vile and immoral gurning dullards have dared to take my identity as a Briton and have turned it into something backward-looking, racist, dreary and frightened.
It sickens me. People like you sicken me. Your crazed monomania has destroyed the dignity of this once-decent country.
So no, why do I dislike Brexit so much? It's because of odious shits like you."
You do realise that it is democracy you are shaking your fist against?
If all these issues were as you paint them, then I can see that - having been unable to articulate persuasive counter-arguments during the referendum campaign - that is going to hurt. Staying in the EU was such a slam dunk, yet you still couldn't find the hoop.
Maybe you should take some time off, to reflect why you were such a poor advocate. That your failure to win the argument has destroyed the dignity of this once-decent country. What with you being a lawyer and that.
I repeatedly noted in the referendum campaign that if Leave were to stand a chance of winning it was by majoring on immigration. That makes it no less ugly and the people who were content to do so no less morally disgraced.
I have no doubt that eventually some of the thoughtful Leavers will feel a burning shame for ever having been associated with the campaign that they fought for.
Comments
It was designed for scientists and key staff, not for 20-something worker drones hired at half the wage an American with a family can afford to live on.
http://m.slashdot.org/story/319935 Is a recent example of this, with Disney being sued by their former staff for discrimination against Americans.
https://twitter.com/bbcdaniels/status/809376256076685312
It's like being out of prison but having to wear a tag! Annoying but better than before
https://www.huntsmansavilerow.com/kingsman
https://www.theguardian.com/society/2016/dec/15/lambeth-council-pay-tens-of-millions-pounds-child-abuse-survivors-shirley-oaks
I should add, however, that I'd expect her satisfaction ratings to start dropping again as the negotiation proceeds, and compromises have to be made. That will of course be even more the case if, as seems quite likely, there is economic disruption.
I wonder why?
It's like being out of prison but having to wear a tag! Annoying but better than before
Any kind of leave is better than any kind of remain. Simply.
Yes, exactly this. After we've tunneled under the barbed wire we can decide our escape route over the nearby fields and enemy territory. But the priority has got to be to get out of range of the machinegun posts, guard dogs and searchlight towers.
Cameron feeling sick over EU courts saying we had to give prisoners the vote, Cameron promising to get migration numbers down to the tens of thousands and increasing them.... all lies, all promises with ready made excuses. Saying something will happen someday, but not now because the EU won't let us... weasel words. At least that can't happen now.
Time to use the "knowing the cost of everything and the value of nothing" retort.
Votes for prisoners was successfully blocked by the UK, so hardly evidence of our weakness in the EU.
Migration down to the 10s of thousands was never met but given we never even got the ex-EU migration number we do control down, its clear that the drive for immigration was not just an EU imposition.
Also, as a has been said elsewhere, the commitment to migration down to the 10s of thousands should have been taken seriously but not literally.
Brexit will collapse under the weight of its own contradictions eventually, like Soviet communism. This is the last hurrah for British Euroscepticism so enjoy it while it lasts.
F1: Mercedes to faff about until 3 January at least:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/formula1/38326664
It was left as a stalemate. The ECHR believed there shouldn't be a blanket ban of prisoner voting but also that prisoners shouldn't receive any compensation for being denied this right and that the government shouldn't be forced to comply.
A very French sort of situation.
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2015/oct/06/uk-ban-on-prisoner-voting-is-lawful-eus-highest-court-rules
More single women too!
But it's not about me it's about what I thinks best for the country especially the poorest whose wages have been suppressed by cheap eu labourwhile their bosses reaped the rewards
Barking mad indeed.
I'll take my barking mad victorious and free over your sour grapes delusional loser every hour of every day.
(Those on remand can still vote)
The EU is the Pope, and Brexit is the reformation?
This should end well...
Wait till they find out what was in the Kool Aid...
This one from SeanT took the bourbon biscuit: "That is to say: for certain atheist liberal internationalists, the EU was part of a post-religious belief structure. So Brexit feels like heresy."
And also wrong. According to this guy. But he's an expert so what does he know?
Britons happy with May’s handling of Brexit – but not so much with her government or Boris Johnson
Even with a less than positive outlook for her own party Theresa May still has strong support of the public with half satisfied in her doing her job as Prime Minister (50%, although down 4 points since last month) while just a quarter (26%) say they are satisfied with Labour leader Jeremy Corbyn. Theresa May also receives much stronger backing from her party supporters than Mr Corbyn. Eight in ten (82%) Conservative supporters say they are satisfied with Ms May whereas half (51%) of Labour supporters are satisfied with Jeremy Corbyn. Liberal Democrat leader Tim Farron’s rating has improved this month with 27% saying they are satisfied with him and 28% dissatisfied (although 45% say ‘don’t know’) while one in five (18%) are satisfied with newly crowned UKIP leader Paul Nuttall (35% dissatisfied - and 47% say ‘don’t know’).
https://www.ipsos-mori.com/researchpublications/researcharchive/3819/Britons-happy-with-Mays-handling-of-Brexit-but-not-so-much-with-her-government-or-Boris-Johnson.aspx
Theresa May’s honeymoon is mirrored in the public’s views of her handling of Brexit, but once you get past her personal popularity, ratings of her government on the issue - and her Foreign Secretary - are much lower. In fact, both the main parties are seen as divided on how to handle Britain’s exit from the European Union, even among their own supporters. Meanwhile, there are some small signs of improvement for the LibDems, following on from their victory in Richmond Park which was a positive news story for them after their lows in recent years. But as always no-one should get carried away from just one poll – there’s still a very long way for them to go, and it could just be a short-term effect. The broader picture of a clear Conservative lead over Labour remains the same.
Isn't Brexit the entirety of what she's done so far though? Not sure how one could be satisfied with one and not the other, frankly.
This one from SeanT took the bourbon biscuit: "That is to say: for certain atheist liberal internationalists, the EU was part of a post-religious belief structure. So Brexit feels like heresy."
Cannot say I agree with the thrust of the point there, but the histrionics have been pretty amazing. We knew a subset of Leavers would be, as some always were, but not so much some of the Remainers. It's notable that some of the more usually hysterical people who happen to be leavers have been more measured than some remainers who are usually more measured and are now often hysterical (the always hysterical on both sides remain unchanged).
their sockpuppetsthe Greens to help them pass a budget@BBCPhilipSim: Patrick Harvie also criticises SNP tax plans & APD cut; Derek Mackay needs to do "a lot more listening" and make "meaningful changes"
No, the reason I dislike Brexit so much is because it is spawned by a repulsive xenophobia, a barely suppressed hatred of foreigners (be they immigrants, other Europeans or Muslims) and dressed up as patriotism. Vile and immoral gurning dullards have dared to take my identity as a Briton and have turned it into something backward-looking, racist, dreary and frightened.
It sickens me. People like you sicken me. Your crazed monomania has destroyed the dignity of this once-decent country.
So no, why do I dislike Brexit so much? It's because of odious shits like you.
May vs Corbyn:
18-24 : =
25-34: +17
35-44: +10
45-54: +55
54-65: +61
65+ : +97
75+ : +94
What a strange economic outcome eh? Millions of people from poor countries taking minimum wage jobs doesn't lead to lower wages.
As I say I'd vote on what I think is best for people who are struggling, not for my own self interest or bank balance. I'd have thought that was a nice thing, funny you see it as a fault
Analysis said that as the euro and pound go in opposite directions the inflation pressures on the UK will diminish contradicting the OBR and IFS gloomy forecasts for UK inflation.
Seems sensible conclusion and where does it leave the euro and the EU
Mind you, I thought Maguire had lost the plot earlier today when he compared Corbyn meeting Adams just after the Brighton bombing with the queen meeting MacGuinness over a decade after Good Friday.....
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Henry_Poole_&_Co
(Personally, I use Byrne and Burge - Joshua Byrne was the last apprentice to study under the great Arthur Catchpole at Henry Poole - Joshua set up B&B in 2007 when Arthur finally retired)
http://www.thetimes.co.uk/tto/opinion/obituaries/article2961436.ece
No matter how many times it is pointed out that the ECHR and its bonkers ruling on votes for prisoners has absolutely zilch to do with the European Union, the myth persists, and gets repeated and reinforced, that it does.
The guy who wrote that article has an agenda, so I wouldn't take it too seriously.
"NIESR in the news". These are the kind of headlines they generate:
* Brexit latest: Inflation hits highest since 2014
* Bank of England to put interest rates on hold amid fears of crippling inflation in 2017
* Weak pound to put the brakes on household spending
On a personal level, while I suspect someone like Blair, Brown or Cameron would find that intimidating, I suspect a little more steel entered May's spine this morning.....
By contrast, while the UK is a member of the EU, for European elections at least, the UK is not necessarily supreme in determining who could vote because the legal case could ultimately be determined by the CJEU, implementing a ECtHR ruling.
That said, I'm not a lawyer and my memory of the case is hazy.
The real story is the pitiful leaders in Europe who are acting like spoilt children.
They need to grow up and this is exactly the attitude and disrespect to our Prime Minister and Country that will result in a surge of support for us to leave as soon as possiible
The EU really is pathetic
It’s a funny video, although not in the way May’s opponents might think. Funny meaning odd, curious, in that your response to it is probably shaped by your existing view of May and Brexit.
For Leavers – and quite a few Remainers who accept the reality that Brexit will happen and no amount of shenanigans by Blair, Mandelson and Clegg (what a dream team!) will stop it - a British Prime Minister being treated in a rude fashion will only encourage Brits to say “if that’s your attitude then please get stuffed” to the EU.
http://reaction.life/eu-rudeness-may-will-encourage-britain-say-get-stuffed/
It sickens me. People like you sicken me. Your crazed monomania has destroyed the dignity of this once-decent country.
So no, why do I dislike Brexit so much? It's because of odious shits like you."
You do realise that it is democracy you are shaking your fist against?
If all these issues were as you paint them, then I can see that - having been unable to articulate persuasive counter-arguments during the referendum campaign - that is going to hurt. Staying in the EU was such a slam dunk, yet you still couldn't find the hoop.
Maybe you should take some time off, to reflect why you were such a poor advocate. That your failure to win the argument has destroyed the dignity of this once-decent country. What with you being a lawyer and that.
I have no doubt that eventually some of the thoughtful Leavers will feel a burning shame for ever having been associated with the campaign that they fought for.
http://g8fip1kplyr33r3krz5b97d1.wpengine.netdna-cdn.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/12/late-version.pdf