On an AA Gill related theme does anyone know who the art critic referred to here is:
' It is the same snobbery that caused an eminent art critic to recently opine on Radio 4 that he hadn’t seen a few Caravaggios being shown off in a London exhibition – because they had been “hidden away in places like Hull and Preston”. They might as well have been on the moon, though he would no doubt have seen them had they been hung in Florence or Paris. '
Just as school trips are used to show foreign countries to British kids or in an domestic equivalent to show London to non-London kids or farms to urban kids perhaps its time that some of the 'metropolitan elite' took an opportunity to see Blueland.
How many pb-ers have actually been to Preston or Hull ?
(I'd be surprised if there are any Caravaggios in either place, but the essential point that the Arts World is absurdly over-concentrated in London is surely true).
Never been to either. In fact never been to any city in the north of England except Liverpool if that counts. The peak district is nice though.
Well then you're missing out.
Newcastle has an extremely handsome town centre and striking riverfront setting. Durham is incredible around the cathedral. York is of course wondrous.
Even Manchester is interesting, with its vital role in the industrial revolution (and Coalbrookdale is like Florence: a place where the world changed - magical and compelling).
Not actively avoiding them - I dontdoubt they are nice to visit.. Just don't have friends in those places. I've actually never even heard of CoalBrookdale.
On an AA Gill related theme does anyone know who the art critic referred to here is:
' It is the same snobbery that caused an eminent art critic to recently opine on Radio 4 that he hadn’t seen a few Caravaggios being shown off in a London exhibition – because they had been “hidden away in places like Hull and Preston”. They might as well have been on the moon, though he would no doubt have seen them had they been hung in Florence or Paris. '
Just as school trips are used to show foreign countries to British kids or in an domestic equivalent to show London to non-London kids or farms to urban kids perhaps its time that some of the 'metropolitan elite' took an opportunity to see Blueland.
I met a fantastically rich eurotrashy couple on safari in Kenya in June this year. He was Italian-Iranian, she was Italian-French (I think). They both lived in London, and had done so for a decade, and loved the city.
I asked them what other parts of the UK they liked and she reluctantly admitted (tho without great embarrassment) that the only part of the UK she had ever been to outside London was Windsor, and then she asked me, "does that count, is that outside London"?
These people travelled the world constantly, Kenya to America, Tuscany to Provence, but they knew and saw nothing - literally NOTHING - of the UK, despite living in the capital of the UK for a decade.
An extreme case, clearly, but very striking.
Do you need to take jabs when you go out of London into the shires ?
Only the standard ones you need to take when going through Putney, probably fewer than when visiting Battersea.
On an AA Gill related theme does anyone know who the art critic referred to here is:
' It is the same snobbery that caused an eminent art critic to recently opine on Radio 4 that he hadn’t seen a few Caravaggios being shown off in a London exhibition – because they had been “hidden away in places like Hull and Preston”. They might as well have been on the moon, though he would no doubt have seen them had they been hung in Florence or Paris. '
Just as school trips are used to show foreign countries to British kids or in an domestic equivalent to show London to non-London kids or farms to urban kids perhaps its time that some of the 'metropolitan elite' took an opportunity to see Blueland.
How many pb-ers have actually been to Preston or Hull ?
(I'd be surprised if there are any Caravaggios in either place, but the essential point that the Arts World is absurdly over-concentrated in London is surely true).
Never been to either. In fact never been to any city in the north of England except Liverpool if that counts. The peak district is nice though.
Well then you're missing out.
Newcastle has an extremely handsome town centre and striking riverfront setting. Durham is incredible around the cathedral. York is of course wondrous.
Even Manchester is interesting, with its vital role in the industrial revolution (and Coalbrookdale is like Florence: a place where the world changed - magical and compelling).
Only passed through Newcastle on the way to Scotland (by car and train), most recently in 2012. I do eventually want to do the Metro, as there is a station called Ilford Road
I'm increasingly in awe of Manchester, some seriously good architecture, old and new, loads of trains and trams, canals, and Media City(!). I've been to Manchester around 8 times this year (prior to January, I hadn't even visited the place!).
In fact, most British largish towns are great except perhaps Birmingham.
On an AA Gill related theme does anyone know who the art critic referred to here is:
' It is the same snobbery that caused an eminent art critic to recently opine on Radio 4 that he hadn’t seen a few Caravaggios being shown off in a London exhibition – because they had been “hidden away in places like Hull and Preston”. They might as well have been on the moon, though he would no doubt have seen them had they been hung in Florence or Paris. '
Just as school trips are used to show foreign countries to British kids or in an domestic equivalent to show London to non-London kids or farms to urban kids perhaps its time that some of the 'metropolitan elite' took an opportunity to see Blueland.
I met a fantastically rich eurotrashy couple on safari in Kenya in June this year. He was Italian-Iranian, she was Italian-French (I think). They both lived in London, and had done so for a decade, and loved the city.
I asked them what other parts of the UK they liked and she reluctantly admitted (tho without great embarrassment) that the only part of the UK she had ever been to outside London was Windsor, and then she asked me, "does that count, is that outside London"?
These people travelled the world constantly, Kenya to America, Tuscany to Provence, but they knew and saw nothing - literally NOTHING - of the UK, despite living in the capital of the UK for a decade.
An extreme case, clearly, but very striking.
Do you need to take jabs when you go out of London into the shires ?
Only the standard ones you need to take when going through Putney, probably fewer than when visiting Battersea.
Sad but true. They turned Tory about 30 years ago. Hammersmith and Fulham following suit. A 0.5 bedroom shit-hole costs upwards of £0.5m
On an AA Gill related theme does anyone know who the art critic referred to here is:
' It is the same snobbery that caused an eminent art critic to recently opine on Radio 4 that he hadn’t seen a few Caravaggios being shown off in a London exhibition – because they had been “hidden away in places like Hull and Preston”. They might as well have been on the moon, though he would no doubt have seen them had they been hung in Florence or Paris. '
Just as school trips are used to show foreign countries to British kids or in an domestic equivalent to show London to non-London kids or farms to urban kids perhaps its time that some of the 'metropolitan elite' took an opportunity to see Blueland.
How many pb-ers have actually been to Preston or Hull ?
(I'd be surprised if there are any Caravaggios in either place, but the essential point that the Arts World is absurdly over-concentrated in London is surely true).
I've been to Hull. I've started taking my wife on trips to places outside of London as she's been here since 2005 and seen little of the country. We did Bournemouth recently, we have Swansea (long story) and Bath lined up for the Christmas/New Year break.
You are taking your wife to Swansea in mid-winter as a treat? Brave.
On an AA Gill related theme does anyone know who the art critic referred to here is:
' It is the same snobbery that caused an eminent art critic to recently opine on Radio 4 that he hadn’t seen a few Caravaggios being shown off in a London exhibition – because they had been “hidden away in places like Hull and Preston”. They might as well have been on the moon, though he would no doubt have seen them had they been hung in Florence or Paris. '
Just as school trips are used to show foreign countries to British kids or in an domestic equivalent to show London to non-London kids or farms to urban kids perhaps its time that some of the 'metropolitan elite' took an opportunity to see Blueland.
How many pb-ers have actually been to Preston or Hull ?
(I'd be surprised if there are any Caravaggios in either place, but the essential point that the Arts World is absurdly over-concentrated in London is surely true).
Never been to either. In fact never been to any city in the north of England except Liverpool if that counts. The peak district is nice though.
Well then you're missing out.
Newcastle has an extremely handsome town centre and striking riverfront setting. Durham is incredible around the cathedral. York is of course wondrous.
Even Manchester is interesting, with its vital role in the industrial revolution (and Coalbrookdale is like Florence: a place where the world changed - magical and compelling).
Only passed through Newcastle on the way to Scotland (by car and train), most recently in 2012. I do eventually want to do the Metro, as there is a station called Ilford Road
I'm increasingly in awe of Manchester, some seriously good architecture, old and new, loads of trains and trams, canals, and Media City(!). I've been to Manchester around 8 times this year (prior to January, I hadn't even visited the place!).
In fact, most British largish towns are great except perhaps Birmingham.
Depends on how you define 'largeish'. Bury is a biggish place, but not great to visit.
As for Birmingham, I think you're generous in not saying 'definitely' instead of 'perhaps'.
On an AA Gill related theme does anyone know who the art critic referred to here is:
' It is the same snobbery that caused an eminent art critic to recently opine on Radio 4 that he hadn’t seen a few Caravaggios being shown off in a London exhibition – because they had been “hidden away in places like Hull and Preston”. They might as well have been on the moon, though he would no doubt have seen them had they been hung in Florence or Paris. '
Just as school trips are used to show foreign countries to British kids or in an domestic equivalent to show London to non-London kids or farms to urban kids perhaps its time that some of the 'metropolitan elite' took an opportunity to see Blueland.
I met a fantastically rich eurotrashy couple on safari in Kenya in June this year. He was Italian-Iranian, she was Italian-French (I think). They both lived in London, and had done so for a decade, and loved the city.
I asked them what other parts of the UK they liked and she reluctantly admitted (tho without great embarrassment) that the only part of the UK she had ever been to outside London was Windsor, and then she asked me, "does that count, is that outside London"?
These people travelled the world constantly, Kenya to America, Tuscany to Provence, but they knew and saw nothing - literally NOTHING - of the UK, despite living in the capital of the UK for a decade.
An extreme case, clearly, but very striking.
Do you need to take jabs when you go out of London into the shires ?
On an AA Gill related theme does anyone know who the art critic referred to here is:
' It is the same snobbery that caused an eminent art critic to recently opine on Radio 4 that he hadn’t seen a few Caravaggios being shown off in a London exhibition – because they had been “hidden away in places like Hull and Preston”. They might as well have been on the moon, though he would no doubt have seen them had they been hung in Florence or Paris. '
Just as school trips are used to show foreign countries to British kids or in an domestic equivalent to show London to non-London kids or farms to urban kids perhaps its time that some of the 'metropolitan elite' took an opportunity to see Blueland.
How many pb-ers have actually been to Preston or Hull ?
(I'd be surprised if there are any Caravaggios in either place, but the essential point that the Arts World is absurdly over-concentrated in London is surely true).
Been to Preston, but not Hull.
I've seen some of the grimmest areas in the north, not least cause I once did a piece for Maxim magazine on The Roughest Pubs in Britain. My favourite was a pub in inner city Newcastle where we walked in, at 3pm ona Saturday, to see a drunken woman standing on a table trying to hit her husband with a chair (he was staggering past)
Then there was the pub in Chapeltown, Leeds, with fresh blood on the doorstep at 12 noon on a Sunday.
20 years ago I visited several Glaswegian pubs with small windows with bars and barbed wire on them. Didn't stay long. One of them proudly proclaimed to have over 500 brands of whisky on sale.
Glasgow is mightily impressive, in ways good and bad. It's got wonderful Victorian architecture: world class. Especially around Merchant City.
But on a dark drizzly winter afternoon, say 3pm on a Wednesday in mid January, with the light already failing, it feels like the capital of Hell.
Bradford has a new a visitor attraction ;-) if you like tunnels.
Opening day of the new Sunbridgewells bars and shops complex, in the city centre, draws thousands of visitors
On an AA Gill related theme does anyone know who the art critic referred to here is:
' It is the same snobbery that caused an eminent art critic to recently opine on Radio 4 that he hadn’t seen a few Caravaggios being shown off in a London exhibition – because they had been “hidden away in places like Hull and Preston”. They might as well have been on the moon, though he would no doubt have seen them had they been hung in Florence or Paris. '
Just as school trips are used to show foreign countries to British kids or in an domestic equivalent to show London to non-London kids or farms to urban kids perhaps its time that some of the 'metropolitan elite' took an opportunity to see Blueland.
How many pb-ers have actually been to Preston or Hull ?
(I'd be surprised if there are any Caravaggios in either place, but the essential point that the Arts World is absurdly over-concentrated in London is surely true).
Never been to either. In fact never been to any city in the north of England except Liverpool if that counts. The peak district is nice though.
Well then you're missing out.
Newcastle has an extremely handsome town centre and striking riverfront setting. Durham is incredible around the cathedral. York is of course wondrous.
Even Manchester is interesting, with its vital role in the industrial revolution (and Coalbrookdale is like Florence: a place where the world changed - magical and compelling).
Not actively avoiding them - I dontdoubt they are nice to visit.. Just don't have friends in those places. I've actually never even heard of CoalBrookdale.
Coalbrookdale/Ironbridge should be a compulsory school trip for all British children, frankly.
On an AA Gill related theme does anyone know who the art critic referred to here is:
' It is the same snobbery that caused an eminent art critic to recently opine on Radio 4 that he hadn’t seen a few Caravaggios being shown off in a London exhibition – because they had been “hidden away in places like Hull and Preston”. They might as well have been on the moon, though he would no doubt have seen them had they been hung in Florence or Paris. '
Just as school trips are used to show foreign countries to British kids or in an domestic equivalent to show London to non-London kids or farms to urban kids perhaps its time that some of the 'metropolitan elite' took an opportunity to see Blueland.
How many pb-ers have actually been to Preston or Hull ?
(I'd be surprised if there are any Caravaggios in either place, but the essential point that the Arts World is absurdly over-concentrated in London is surely true).
I've been to Hull. I've started taking my wife on trips to places outside of London as she's been here since 2005 and seen little of the country. We did Bournemouth recently, we have Swansea (long story) and Bath lined up for the Christmas/New Year break.
You are taking your wife to Swansea in mid-winter as a treat? Brave.
True story. A friend of mine once complained the architecture in his part of Cardiff wasn't great (bearing in mind parts of the city are stunning).
I told him to take a trip to Swansea.
He came back admitting his place was not too bad after all.
(If you live in Swansea, transfer this joke to Newport. If you live in Newport...you have my sympathy.)
On an AA Gill related theme does anyone know who the art critic referred to here is:
' It is the same snobbery that caused an eminent art critic to recently opine on Radio 4 that he hadn’t seen a few Caravaggios being shown off in a London exhibition – because they had been “hidden away in places like Hull and Preston”. They might as well have been on the moon, though he would no doubt have seen them had they been hung in Florence or Paris. '
Just as school trips are used to show foreign countries to British kids or in an domestic equivalent to show London to non-London kids or farms to urban kids perhaps its time that some of the 'metropolitan elite' took an opportunity to see Blueland.
How many pb-ers have actually been to Preston or Hull ?
(I'd be surprised if there are any Caravaggios in either place, but the essential point that the Arts World is absurdly over-concentrated in London is surely true).
Never been to either. In fact never been to any city in the north of England except Liverpool if that counts. The peak district is nice though.
Well then you're missing out.
Newcastle has an extremely handsome town centre and striking riverfront setting. Durham is incredible around the cathedral. York is of course wondrous.
Even Manchester is interesting, with its vital role in the industrial revolution (and Coalbrookdale is like Florence: a place where the world changed - magical and compelling).
Only passed through Newcastle on the way to Scotland (by car and train), most recently in 2012. I do eventually want to do the Metro, as there is a station called Ilford Road
I'm increasingly in awe of Manchester, some seriously good architecture, old and new, loads of trains and trams, canals, and Media City(!). I've been to Manchester around 8 times this year (prior to January, I hadn't even visited the place!).
In fact, most British largish towns are great except perhaps Birmingham.
Birmingham has become a little upmarket in fact, especially in the Gas Street area near the new Library.
On an AA Gill related theme does anyone know who the art critic referred to here is:
' It is the same snobbery that caused an eminent art critic to recently opine on Radio 4 that he hadn’t seen a few Caravaggios being shown off in a London exhibition – because they had been “hidden away in places like Hull and Preston”. They might as well have been on the moon, though he would no doubt have seen them had they been hung in Florence or Paris. '
Just as school trips are used to show foreign countries to British kids or in an domestic equivalent to show London to non-London kids or farms to urban kids perhaps its time that some of the 'metropolitan elite' took an opportunity to see Blueland.
How many pb-ers have actually been to Preston or Hull ?
(I'd be surprised if there are any Caravaggios in either place, but the essential point that the Arts World is absurdly over-concentrated in London is surely true).
Never been to either. In fact never been to any city in the north of England except Liverpool if that counts. The peak district is nice though.
Well then you're missing out.
Newcastle has an extremely handsome town centre and striking riverfront setting. Durham is incredible around the cathedral. York is of course wondrous.
Even Manchester is interesting, with its vital role in the industrial revolution (and Coalbrookdale is like Florence: a place where the world changed - magical and compelling).
Not actively avoiding them - I dontdoubt they are nice to visit.. Just don't have friends in those places. I've actually never even heard of CoalBrookdale.
WTF !!!!!
You've never heard of Coalbrookdale? And you call yourself an Englishman! Nay, you are a swine sir, a lowly swine not worthy to provide the bacon for a true Englishman. You might as well decamp and live in Paris, or Pollok.
Coalbrookdale is home to a bridge so famous it is not just called an 'iron bridge'; it is *the* Iron Bridge (*). The Iron Bridge. Not an Iron Bridge. The Iron Bridge.
On an AA Gill related theme does anyone know who the art critic referred to here is:
' It is the same snobbery that caused an eminent art critic to recently opine on Radio 4 that he hadn’t seen a few Caravaggios being shown off in a London exhibition – because they had been “hidden away in places like Hull and Preston”. They might as well have been on the moon, though he would no doubt have seen them had they been hung in Florence or Paris. '
Just as school trips are used to show foreign countries to British kids or in an domestic equivalent to show London to non-London kids or farms to urban kids perhaps its time that some of the 'metropolitan elite' took an opportunity to see Blueland.
How many pb-ers have actually been to Preston or Hull ?
(I'd be surprised if there are any Caravaggios in either place, but the essential point that the Arts World is absurdly over-concentrated in London is surely true).
Never been to either. In fact never been to any city in the north of England except Liverpool if that counts. The peak district is nice though.
Well then you're missing out.
Newcastle has an extremely handsome town centre and striking riverfront setting. Durham is incredible around the cathedral. York is of course wondrous.
Even Manchester is interesting, with its vital role in the industrial revolution (and Coalbrookdale is like Florence: a place where the world changed - magical and compelling).
Only passed through Newcastle on the way to Scotland (by car and train), most recently in 2012. I do eventually want to do the Metro, as there is a station called Ilford Road
I'm increasingly in awe of Manchester, some seriously good architecture, old and new, loads of trains and trams, canals, and Media City(!). I've been to Manchester around 8 times this year (prior to January, I hadn't even visited the place!).
In fact, most British largish towns are great except perhaps Birmingham.
Huh...Birmingham has undergone a great redevelopment (and no I don't come from there or live there).
On an AA Gill related theme does anyone know who the art critic referred to here is:
' It is the same snobbery that caused an eminent art critic to recently opine on Radio 4 that he hadn’t seen a few Caravaggios being shown off in a London exhibition – because they had been “hidden away in places like Hull and Preston”. They might as well have been on the moon, though he would no doubt have seen them had they been hung in Florence or Paris. '
Just as school trips are used to show foreign countries to British kids or in an domestic equivalent to show London to non-London kids or farms to urban kids perhaps its time that some of the 'metropolitan elite' took an opportunity to see Blueland.
How many pb-ers have actually been to Preston or Hull ?
(I'd be surprised if there are any Caravaggios in either place, but the essential point that the Arts World is absurdly over-concentrated in London is surely true).
I've been to Hull. I've started taking my wife on trips to places outside of London as she's been here since 2005 and seen little of the country. We did Bournemouth recently, we have Swansea (long story) and Bath lined up for the Christmas/New Year break.
You are taking your wife to Swansea in mid-winter as a treat? Brave.
True story. A friend of mine once complained the architecture in his part of Cardiff wasn't great (bearing in mind parts of the city are stunning).
I told him to take a trip to Swansea.
He came back admitting his place was not too bad after all.
(If you live in Swansea, transfer this joke to Newport. If you live in Newport...you have my sympathy.)
I've been to Newport station, but no further along the GWR.
On an AA Gill related theme does anyone know who the art critic referred to here is:
' It is the same snobbery that caused an eminent art critic to recently opine on Radio 4 that he hadn’t seen a few Caravaggios being shown off in a London exhibition – because they had been “hidden away in places like Hull and Preston”. They might as well have been on the moon, though he would no doubt have seen them had they been hung in Florence or Paris. '
Just as school trips are used to show foreign countries to British kids or in an domestic equivalent to show London to non-London kids or farms to urban kids perhaps its time that some of the 'metropolitan elite' took an opportunity to see Blueland.
How many pb-ers have actually been to Preston or Hull ?
(I'd be surprised if there are any Caravaggios in either place, but the essential point that the Arts World is absurdly over-concentrated in London is surely true).
Never been to either. In fact never been to any city in the north of England except Liverpool if that counts. The peak district is nice though.
Well then you're missing out.
Newcastle has an extremely handsome town centre and striking riverfront setting. Durham is incredible around the cathedral. York is of course wondrous.
Even Manchester is interesting, with its vital role in the industrial revolution (and Coalbrookdale is like Florence: a place where the world changed - magical and compelling).
Only passed through Newcastle on the way to Scotland (by car and train), most recently in 2012. I do eventually want to do the Metro, as there is a station called Ilford Road
I'm increasingly in awe of Manchester, some seriously good architecture, old and new, loads of trains and trams, canals, and Media City(!). I've been to Manchester around 8 times this year (prior to January, I hadn't even visited the place!).
In fact, most British largish towns are great except perhaps Birmingham.
Depends on how you define 'largeish'. Bury is a biggish place, but not great to visit.
As for Birmingham, I think you're generous in not saying 'definitely' instead of 'perhaps'.
I like most Scottish towns. I like those sandstone buildings and granite in Aberdeen. I think central Manchester and the Liverpool waterfront absolutely brilliant. Newcastle certainly. Most seaside promenades.
On an AA Gill related theme does anyone know who the art critic referred to here is:
' It is the same snobbery that caused an eminent art critic to recently opine on Radio 4 that he hadn’t seen a few Caravaggios being shown off in a London exhibition – because they had been “hidden away in places like Hull and Preston”. They might as well have been on the moon, though he would no doubt have seen them had they been hung in Florence or Paris. '
Just as school trips are used to show foreign countries to British kids or in an domestic equivalent to show London to non-London kids or farms to urban kids perhaps its time that some of the 'metropolitan elite' took an opportunity to see Blueland.
How many pb-ers have actually been to Preston or Hull ?
(I'd be surprised if there are any Caravaggios in either place, but the essential point that the Arts World is absurdly over-concentrated in London is surely true).
I've been to Hull. I've started taking my wife on trips to places outside of London as she's been here since 2005 and seen little of the country. We did Bournemouth recently, we have Swansea (long story) and Bath lined up for the Christmas/New Year break.
You are taking your wife to Swansea in mid-winter as a treat? Brave.
True story. A friend of mine once complained the architecture in his part of Cardiff wasn't great (bearing in mind parts of the city are stunning).
I told him to take a trip to Swansea.
He came back admitting his place was not too bad after all.
(If you live in Swansea, transfer this joke to Newport. If you live in Newport...you have my sympathy.)
I've been to Newport station, but no further along the GWR.
Newport station is one of the better features of the city.
On an AA Gill related theme does anyone know who the art critic referred to here is:
' It is the same snobbery that caused an eminent art critic to recently opine on Radio 4 that he hadn’t seen a few Caravaggios being shown off in a London exhibition – because they had been “hidden away in places like Hull and Preston”. They might as well have been on the moon, though he would no doubt have seen them had they been hung in Florence or Paris. '
Just as school trips are used to show foreign countries to British kids or in an domestic equivalent to show London to non-London kids or farms to urban kids perhaps its time that some of the 'metropolitan elite' took an opportunity to see Blueland.
How many pb-ers have actually been to Preston or Hull ?
(I'd be surprised if there are any Caravaggios in either place, but the essential point that the Arts World is absurdly over-concentrated in London is surely true).
I've been to Hull. I've started taking my wife on trips to places outside of London as she's been here since 2005 and seen little of the country. We did Bournemouth recently, we have Swansea (long story) and Bath lined up for the Christmas/New Year break.
You are taking your wife to Swansea in mid-winter as a treat? Brave.
True story. A friend of mine once complained the architecture in his part of Cardiff wasn't great (bearing in mind parts of the city are stunning).
I told him to take a trip to Swansea.
He came back admitting his place was not too bad after all.
(If you live in Swansea, transfer this joke to Newport. If you live in Newport...you have my sympathy.)
On an AA Gill related theme does anyone know who the art critic referred to here is:
' It is the same snobbery that caused an eminent art critic to recently opine on Radio 4 that he hadn’t seen a few Caravaggios being shown off in a London exhibition – because they had been “hidden away in places like Hull and Preston”. They might as well have been on the moon, though he would no doubt have seen them had they been hung in Florence or Paris. '
Just as school trips are used to show foreign countries to British kids or in an domestic equivalent to show London to non-London kids or farms to urban kids perhaps its time that some of the 'metropolitan elite' took an opportunity to see Blueland.
How many pb-ers have actually been to Preston or Hull ?
(I'd be surprised if there are any Caravaggios in either place, but the essential point that the Arts World is absurdly over-concentrated in London is surely true).
Been to Preston, but not Hull.
I've seen some of the grimmest areas in the north, not least cause I once did a piece for Maxim magazine on The Roughest Pubs in Britain. My favourite was a pub in inner city Newcastle where we walked in, at 3pm ona Saturday, to see a drunken woman standing on a table trying to hit her husband with a chair (he was staggering past)
Then there was the pub in Chapeltown, Leeds, with fresh blood on the doorstep at 12 noon on a Sunday.
20 years ago I visited several Glaswegian pubs with small windows with bars and barbed wire on them. Didn't stay long. One of them proudly proclaimed to have over 500 brands of whisky on sale.
Glasgow is mightily impressive, in ways good and bad. It's got wonderful Victorian architecture: world class. Especially around Merchant City.
But on a dark drizzly winter afternoon, say 3pm on a Wednesday in mid January, with the light already failing, it feels like the capital of Hell.
Bradford has a new a visitor attraction ;-) if you like tunnels.
Opening day of the new Sunbridgewells bars and shops complex, in the city centre, draws thousands of visitors
I know this is cruel and my mean streak may just because I'm down with man flu - but in that article, Sharon Hodgson MP does look rather like Arnie's mask in Total Recall:
On an AA Gill related theme does anyone know who the art critic referred to here is:
' It is the same snobbery that caused an eminent art critic to recently opine on Radio 4 that he hadn’t seen a few Caravaggios being shown off in a London exhibition – because they had been “hidden away in places like Hull and Preston”. They might as well have been on the moon, though he would no doubt have seen them had they been hung in Florence or Paris. '
Just as school trips are used to show foreign countries to British kids or in an domestic equivalent to show London to non-London kids or farms to urban kids perhaps its time that some of the 'metropolitan elite' took an opportunity to see Blueland.
How many pb-ers have actually been to Preston or Hull ?
(I'd be surprised if there are any Caravaggios in either place, but the essential point that the Arts World is absurdly over-concentrated in London is surely true).
Never been to either. In fact never been to any city in the north of England except Liverpool if that counts. The peak district is nice though.
Well then you're missing out.
Newcastle has an extremely handsome town centre and striking riverfront setting. Durham is incredible around the cathedral. York is of course wondrous.
Even Manchester is interesting, with its vital role in the industrial revolution (and Coalbrookdale is like Florence: a place where the world changed - magical and compelling).
Not actively avoiding them - I dontdoubt they are nice to visit.. Just don't have friends in those places. I've actually never even heard of CoalBrookdale.
WTF !!!!!
You've never heard of Coalbrookdale? And you call yourself an Englishman! Nay, you are a swine sir, a lowly swine not worthy to provide the bacon for a true Englishman. You might as well decamp and live in Paris, or Pollok.
Coalbrookdale is home to a bridge so famous it is not just called an 'iron bridge'; it is *the* Iron Bridge (*). The Iron Bridge. Not an Iron Bridge. The Iron Bridge.
On an AA Gill related theme does anyone know who the art critic referred to here is:
' It is the same snobbery that caused an eminent art critic to recently opine on Radio 4 that he hadn’t seen a few Caravaggios being shown off in a London exhibition – because they had been “hidden away in places like Hull and Preston”. They might as well have been on the moon, though he would no doubt have seen them had they been hung in Florence or Paris. '
Just as school trips are used to show foreign countries to British kids or in an domestic equivalent to show London to non-London kids or farms to urban kids perhaps its time that some of the 'metropolitan elite' took an opportunity to see Blueland.
I met a fantastically rich eurotrashy couple on safari in Kenya in June this year. He was Italian-Iranian, she was Italian-French (I think). They both lived in London, and had done so for a decade, and loved the city.
I asked them what other parts of the UK they liked and she reluctantly admitted (tho without great embarrassment) that the only part of the UK she had ever been to outside London was Windsor, and then she asked me, "does that count, is that outside London"?
These people travelled the world constantly, Kenya to America, Tuscany to Provence, but they knew and saw nothing - literally NOTHING - of the UK, despite living in the capital of the UK for a decade.
An extreme case, clearly, but very striking.
Do you need to take jabs when you go out of London into the shires ?
BREAKING NEWS: More than 20 people including riot squad officers are injured by car bomb blast targeting police van outside major Istanbul football match
Now that we know who Trump's Secretary of State will be we can say that Trump's government is the literal embodiment of the so called military-industrial complex.
You can say half of his cabinet are Corporate CEO's and the other half are Military men, with the sole Ben Carson in the middle.
Now that we know who Trump's Secretary of State will be we can say that Trump's government is the literal embodiment of the so called military-industrial complex.
You can say half of his cabinet are Corporate CEO's and the other half are Military men, with the sole Ben Carson in the middle.
I caught the new kiefer sutherland series the other day, called Dedicated Survivor, where a lowly totally overlooked minister is thrust into POTUS after an attack at the state of the union address...guess what his government position is?
On an AA Gill related theme does anyone know who the art critic referred to here is:
' It is the same snobbery that caused an eminent art critic to recently opine on Radio 4 that he hadn’t seen a few Caravaggios being shown off in a London exhibition – because they had been “hidden away in places like Hull and Preston”. They might as well have been on the moon, though he would no doubt have seen them had they been hung in Florence or Paris. '
Just as school trips are used to show foreign countries to British kids or in an domestic equivalent to show London to non-London kids or farms to urban kids perhaps its time that some of the 'metropolitan elite' took an opportunity to see Blueland.
How many pb-ers have actually been to Preston or Hull ?
(I'd be surprised if there are any Caravaggios in either place, but the essential point that the Arts World is absurdly over-concentrated in London is surely true).
Never been to either. In fact never been to any city in the north of England except Liverpool if that counts. The peak district is nice though.
You've never been to Manchester, Leeds, Bradford, Sheffield, York, Newcastle, Hull? And presumably if you're mentioning the Peak District, never been to the Lake District, the Yorkshire Dales, the North York Moors, Northumberland? How? I'm not being rude, but assuming you're British and an adult, what extremes of geography can have led to that beeing the case?
You are correct in all of those. I mean I got off a coach in Newcastle once but otherwise yes.
I would say of my friends from home in the South they would be the same except a few with northern family; and the odd football match (stereotypical southern man utd fans going to old Trafford). Apart from lake district which I'm definitely unusual in not having been to.
It might be a generational thing? In my 20s...
Plenty of time yet then! But did none of your friends go to northern universities? That was the time at which the number of cities I visited started to ramp up - that, and making friends from my university with other home cities. A hobby which includes travel to places you wouldn't otherwise visit is also a bonus (like sport, or like doing what Sunil does).
On an AA Gill related theme does anyone know who the art critic referred to here is:
' It is the same snobbery that caused an eminent art critic to recently opine on Radio 4 that he hadn’t seen a few Caravaggios being shown off in a London exhibition – because they had been “hidden away in places like Hull and Preston”. They might as well have been on the moon, though he would no doubt have seen them had they been hung in Florence or Paris. '
Just as school trips are used to show foreign countries to British kids or in an domestic equivalent to show London to non-London kids or farms to urban kids perhaps its time that some of the 'metropolitan elite' took an opportunity to see Blueland.
How many pb-ers have actually been to Preston or Hull ?
(I'd be surprised if there are any Caravaggios in either place, but the essential point that the Arts World is absurdly over-concentrated in London is surely true).
Never been to either. In fact never been to any city in the north of England except Liverpool if that counts. The peak district is nice though.
Well then you're missing out.
Newcastle has an extremely handsome town centre and striking riverfront setting. Durham is incredible around the cathedral. York is of course wondrous.
Even Manchester is interesting, with its vital role in the industrial revolution (and Coalbrookdale is like Florence: a place where the world changed - magical and compelling).
Not actively avoiding them - I dontdoubt they are nice to visit.. Just don't have friends in those places. I've actually never even heard of CoalBrookdale.
That's shameful, and an indictment of our education system. Coalbrookdale is magnificently fascinating (and also rather pretty, weirdly enough): the cradle and womb of the Industrial Revolution which changed the world. It's UNESCO World Heritage Listed for a reason.
It's one of maybe four or five precise places where the history of humanity changed:
Gobekli Tepe and Kurdish Turkey: the shift to agriculture Jerusalem, Israel (or Akhetaten Egypt): the birth of monotheism Coalbrookdale, as said Florence: the Renaissance
You could maybe include Athens on that list.
The Los Alamos laboratory. An extraordinary gathering of minds. No doubt their product changed the world, if only because it spawned our ability to wipe all life off it.
On an AA Gill related theme does anyone know who the art critic referred to here is:
' It is the same snobbery that caused an eminent art critic to recently opine on Radio 4 that he hadn’t seen a few Caravaggios being shown off in a London exhibition – because they had been “hidden away in places like Hull and Preston”. They might as well have been on the moon, though he would no doubt have seen them had they been hung in Florence or Paris. '
Just as school trips are used to show foreign countries to British kids or in an domestic equivalent to show London to non-London kids or farms to urban kids perhaps its time that some of the 'metropolitan elite' took an opportunity to see Blueland.
How many pb-ers have actually been to Preston or Hull ?
(I'd be surprised if there are any Caravaggios in either place, but the essential point that the Arts World is absurdly over-concentrated in London is surely true).
Never been to either. In fact never been to any city in the north of England except Liverpool if that counts. The peak district is nice though.
Well then you're missing out.
Newcastle has an extremely handsome town centre and striking riverfront setting. Durham is incredible around the cathedral. York is of course wondrous.
Even Manchester is interesting, with its vital role in the industrial revolution (and Coalbrookdale is like Florence: a place where the world changed - magical and compelling).
Only passed through Newcastle on the way to Scotland (by car and train), most recently in 2012. I do eventually want to do the Metro, as there is a station called Ilford Road
I'm increasingly in awe of Manchester, some seriously good architecture, old and new, loads of trains and trams, canals, and Media City(!). I've been to Manchester around 8 times this year (prior to January, I hadn't even visited the place!).
In fact, most British largish towns are great except perhaps Birmingham.
Huh...Birmingham has undergone a great redevelopment (and no I don't come from there or live there).
Isn't the Telecom Tower a mosque with the tallest minaret in Europe ?
"Especially tantalizing is the mystery of which parts of pure mathematics bear on reality, and why."
That reminds me of the famous quote from Einstein ... "As far as the laws of mathematics refer to reality, they are not certain, and as far as they are certain, they do not refer to reality."
Back to reality. I've been to most Northern cities. Mostly good apart from Sunderland ... they seemed have the most ugly women in the country. I'm sure I used to prop against better-looking people, but it could just have been a bad day.
If you're ever stuck in Liverpool, go to the Walker gallery - not the Tate, as it's a load of pretentious shite.
On an AA Gill related theme does anyone know who the art critic referred to here is:
' It is the same snobbery that caused an eminent art critic to recently opine on Radio 4 that he hadn’t seen a few Caravaggios being shown off in a London exhibition – because they had been “hidden away in places like Hull and Preston”. They might as well have been on the moon, though he would no doubt have seen them had they been hung in Florence or Paris. '
Just as school trips are used to show foreign countries to British kids or in an domestic equivalent to show London to non-London kids or farms to urban kids perhaps its time that some of the 'metropolitan elite' took an opportunity to see Blueland.
How many pb-ers have actually been to Preston or Hull ?
(I'd be surprised if there are any Caravaggios in either place, but the essential point that the Arts World is absurdly over-concentrated in London is surely true).
Never been to either. In fact never been to any city in the north of England except Liverpool if that counts. The peak district is nice though.
Well then you're missing out.
Newcastle has an extremely handsome town centre and striking riverfront setting. Durham is incredible around the cathedral. York is of course wondrous.
Even Manchester is interesting, with its vital role in the industrial revolution (and Coalbrookdale is like Florence: a place where the world changed - magical and compelling).
Only passed through Newcastle on the way to Scotland (by car and train), most recently in 2012. I do eventually want to do the Metro, as there is a station called Ilford Road
I'm increasingly in awe of Manchester, some seriously good architecture, old and new, loads of trains and trams, canals, and Media City(!). I've been to Manchester around 8 times this year (prior to January, I hadn't even visited the place!).
In fact, most British largish towns are great except perhaps Birmingham.
Huh...Birmingham has undergone a great redevelopment (and no I don't come from there or live there).
Isn't the Telecom Tower a mosque with the tallest minaret in Europe ?
On an AA Gill related theme does anyone know who the art critic referred to here is:
' It is the same snobbery that caused an eminent art critic to recently opine on Radio 4 that he hadn’t seen a few Caravaggios being shown off in a London exhibition – because they had been “hidden away in places like Hull and Preston”. They might as well have been on the moon, though he would no doubt have seen them had they been hung in Florence or Paris. '
Just as school trips are used to show foreign countries to British kids or in an domestic equivalent to show London to non-London kids or farms to urban kids perhaps its time that some of the 'metropolitan elite' took an opportunity to see Blueland.
How many pb-ers have actually been to Preston or Hull ?
(I'd be surprised if there are any Caravaggios in either place, but the essential point that the Arts World is absurdly over-concentrated in London is surely true).
Never been to either. In fact never been to any city in the north of England except Liverpool if that counts. The peak district is nice though.
Well then you're missing out.
Newcastle has an extremely handsome town centre and striking riverfront setting. Durham is incredible around the cathedral. York is of course wondrous.
Even Manchester is interesting, with its vital role in the industrial revolution (and Coalbrookdale is like Florence: a place where the world changed - magical and compelling).
Not actively avoiding them - I dontdoubt they are nice to visit.. Just don't have friends in those places. I've actually never even heard of CoalBrookdale.
That's shameful, and an indictment of our education system. Coalbrookdale is magnificently fascinating (and also rather pretty, weirdly enough): the cradle and womb of the Industrial Revolution which changed the world. It's UNESCO World Heritage Listed for a reason.
It's one of maybe four or five precise places where the history of humanity changed:
Gobekli Tepe and Kurdish Turkey: the shift to agriculture Jerusalem, Israel (or Akhetaten Egypt): the birth of monotheism Coalbrookdale, as said Florence: the Renaissance
You could maybe include Athens on that list.
The Los Alamos laboratory. An extraordinary gathering of minds. No doubt their product changed the world, if only because it spawned our ability to wipe all life off it.
BREAKING NEWS: More than 20 people including riot squad officers are injured by car bomb blast targeting police van outside major Istanbul football match
On an AA Gill related theme does anyone know who the art critic referred to here is:
' It is the same snobbery that caused an eminent art critic to recently opine on Radio 4 that he hadn’t seen a few Caravaggios being shown off in a London exhibition – because they had been “hidden away in places like Hull and Preston”. They might as well have been on the moon, though he would no doubt have seen them had they been hung in Florence or Paris. '
Just as school trips are used to show foreign countries to British kids or in an domestic equivalent to show London to non-London kids or farms to urban kids perhaps its time that some of the 'metropolitan elite' took an opportunity to see Blueland.
How many pb-ers have actually been to Preston or Hull ?
(I'd be surprised if there are any Caravaggios in either place, but the essential point that the Arts World is absurdly over-concentrated in London is surely true).
Never been to either. In fact never been to any city in the north of England except Liverpool if that counts. The peak district is nice though.
You've never been to Manchester, Leeds, Bradford, Sheffield, York, Newcastle, Hull? And presumably if you're mentioning the Peak District, never been to the Lake District, the Yorkshire Dales, the North York Moors, Northumberland? How? I'm not being rude, but assuming you're British and an adult, what extremes of geography can have led to that beeing the case?
You are correct in all of those. I mean I got off a coach in Newcastle once but otherwise yes.
I would say of my friends from home in the South they would be the same except a few with northern family; and the odd football match (stereotypical southern man utd fans going to old Trafford). Apart from lake district which I'm definitely unusual in not having been to.
It might be a generational thing? In my 20s...
Plenty of time yet then! But did none of your friends go to northern universities? That was the time at which the number of cities I visited started to ramp up - that, and making friends from my university with other home cities. A hobby which includes travel to places you wouldn't otherwise visit is also a bonus (like sport, or like doing what Sunil does).
Or twitching. About the only bit of Great Britain I haven't visited chasing rare birds is Herefordshire. A weird avian black hole....
The Los Alamos laboratory. An extraordinary gathering of minds. No doubt their product changed the world, if only because it spawned our ability to wipe all life off it.
I doubt they are going to make those laboratories into a UNESCO Heritage site.
A derelict missile launch site in Germany perhaps, Peenemunde comes to mind.
Thing is London is by far the biggest tourist drawer in the UK. We do not have the sunshine of Spain, Italy, the south of France or Florida and California to draw many visitors for their summer holidays. Unless you are a keen rambled and want to visit the Lake District or walk the Cornish coastal paths or a history buff who likes visiting castles and cathedrals or a keen Shakespeare fan you are unlikely to visit the UK beyond London. How many Brits have visited Germany or Canada for instance which have similar climates to our own?
I've been to Berlin (2002) and Banff, Alberta (2005).
Continuing my exploration of the UK rail network - yesterday, I did the Manchester Airport and East Didsbury lines of the Metrolink tram, just Rochdale line left!
I changed trams at Chorlton, so I've have this ditty in my head all day:
Very good Sunil - but did you get beyond the stations? You don't have to, of course, but some of these places are worth a look in their own right beyond the station forecourt. You'll have passed within half a mile of me today - I live close to Sale Water Park tram stop.
I didn't know you were in Sale (I passed through Sale proper on the way to Altrincham two Fridays ago).
Some places I did make an effort. I gave myself enough time to "sea" the waterfront at both West Kirby and New Brighton on Merseyside, for example. Weymouth seafront is easy, as the station is literally 60 seconds walking distance
That's exactly the sort of thing I'm talking about Sunil! West Kirby is very much at the end of the line, with no real reason to go there, and many peopl never do - but if you can find a reason to go there, it's a rewarding place to visit. A few nice pubs etc and some lovely views over to Wales. It's probably one of the most photogenic suburbs in the country. New Brighton is a bit more rough and ready, but also definitely worth a visit.
And I'm pleased you're finding Manchester so rewarding! You will like Newcastle too, and Ilford Road is in one of it's nicer suburban areas so worth a visit if you're in looking-at-England mode.
Now that we know who Trump's Secretary of State will be we can say that Trump's government is the literal embodiment of the so called military-industrial complex.
You can say half of his cabinet are Corporate CEO's and the other half are Military men, with the sole Ben Carson in the middle.
I caught the new kiefer sutherland series the other day, called Dedicated Survivor, where a lowly totally overlooked minister is thrust into POTUS after an attack at the state of the union address...guess what his government position is?
Ben Carson's position ?
Regardless with so many Goldman Sachs people and so many Generals and Admirals in Trump's team no one would have an interest to do so.
The guy has put Wall Street and the Pentagon in charge of the country.
There were massive crowds in central Birmingham yesterday, mid-day. The shops / cafes etc were packed. God knows what it would have been like if we were not in the middle of the post-referendum recession.
On an AA Gill related theme does anyone know who the art critic referred to here is:
'
How many pb-ers have actually been to Preston or Hull ?
(I'd be surprised if there are any Caravaggios in either place, but the essential point that the Arts World is absurdly over-concentrated in London is surely true).
Never been to either. In fact never been to any city in the north of England except Liverpool if that counts. The peak district is nice though.
Well then you're missing out.
Newcastle has an extremely handsome town centre and striking riverfront setting. Durham is incredible around the cathedral. York is of course wondrous.
Even Manchester is interesting, with its vital role in the industrial revolution (and Coalbrookdale is like Florence: a place where the world changed - magical and compelling).
Only passed through Newcastle on the way to Scotland (by car and train), most recently in 2012. I do eventually want to do the Metro, as there is a station called Ilford Road
I'm increasingly in awe of Manchester, some seriously good architecture, old and new, loads of trains and trams, canals, and Media City(!). I've been to Manchester around 8 times this year (prior to January, I hadn't even visited the place!).
In fact, most British largish towns are great except perhaps Birmingham.
Depends on how you define 'largeish'. Bury is a biggish place, but not great to visit.
As for Birmingham, I think you're generous in not saying 'definitely' instead of 'perhaps'.
I like most Scottish towns. I like those sandstone buildings and granite in Aberdeen. I think central Manchester and the Liverpool waterfront absolutely brilliant. Newcastle certainly. Most seaside promenades.
Birmingham, definitely, not !
Trust me, if my mum approves of Birmingham for its architecture and photographic subject matter, it must be good
Now that we know who Trump's Secretary of State will be we can say that Trump's government is the literal embodiment of the so called military-industrial complex.
You can say half of his cabinet are Corporate CEO's and the other half are Military men, with the sole Ben Carson in the middle.
I caught the new kiefer sutherland series the other day, called Dedicated Survivor, where a lowly totally overlooked minister is thrust into POTUS after an attack at the state of the union address...guess what his government position is?
On an AA Gill related theme does anyone know who the art critic referred to here is:
' It is the same snobbery that caused an eminent art critic to recently opine on Radio 4 that he hadn’t seen a few Caravaggios being shown off in a London exhibition – because they had been “hidden away in places like Hull and Preston”. They might as well have been on the moon, though he would no doubt have seen them had they been hung in Florence or Paris. '
Just as school trips are used to show foreign countries to British kids or in an domestic equivalent to show London to non-London kids or farms to urban kids perhaps its time that some of the 'metropolitan elite' took an opportunity to see Blueland.
How many pb-ers have actually been to Preston or Hull ?
(I'd be surprised if there are any Caravaggios in either place, but the essential point that the Arts World is absurdly over-concentrated in London is surely true).
Never been to either. In fact never been to any city in the north of England except Liverpool if that counts. The peak district is nice though.
You are correct in all of those. I mean I got off a coach in Newcastle once but otherwise yes.
I would say of my friends from home in the South they would be the same except a few with northern family; and the odd football match (stereotypical southern man utd fans going to old Trafford). Apart from lake district which I'm definitely unusual in not having been to.
It might be a generational thing? In my 20s...
Plenty of time yet then! But did none of your friends go to northern universities? That was the time at which the number of cities I visited started to ramp up - that, and making friends from my university with other home cities. A hobby which includes travel to places you wouldn't otherwise visit is also a bonus (like sport, or like doing what Sunil does).
Or twitching. About the only bit of Great Britain I haven't visited chasing rare birds is Herefordshire. A weird avian black hole....
Similarly, bell-ringing took has taken me to a lot of out-of-the-way places. Whatever you may think about Christianity, in most British settlements the church is the most interesting building.
Right. Los Alamos was mainly weapons, and nuclear weapons have not, yet, changed the world to that extent. If you want to go nuke, go for the stands at Stagg Field, which led to both the civilian and military nuke programs.
If you want a US place, Kitty Hawk. A place that truly changed the world, and was chosen to do so.
On an AA Gill related theme does anyone know who the art critic referred to here is:
' It is the same snobbery that caused an eminent art critic to recently opine on Radio 4 that he hadn’t seen a few Caravaggios being shown off in a London exhibition – because they had been “hidden away in places like Hull and Preston”. They might as well have been on the moon, though he would no doubt have seen them had they been hung in Florence or Paris. '
Just as school trips are used to show foreign countries to British kids or in an domestic equivalent to show London to non-London kids or farms to urban kids perhaps its time that some of the 'metropolitan elite' took an opportunity to see Blueland.
How many pb-ers have actually been to Preston or Hull ?
(I'd be surprised if there are any Caravaggios in either place, but the essential point that the Arts World is absurdly over-concentrated in London is surely true).
I've been to Hull. I've started taking my wife on trips to places outside of London as she's been here since 2005 and seen little of the country. We did Bournemouth recently, we have Swansea (long story) and Bath lined up for the Christmas/New Year break.
You are taking your wife to Swansea in mid-winter as a treat? Brave.
I have been to Swansea in Feb (visiting friends), the Mumbles were magnificent and we had a great time on the beach in the winter sun. Swansea itself looked better at a distance, though there is something magnificent about a major industrial site like Port Talbot.
On an AA Gill related theme does anyone know who the art critic referred to here is:
' It is the same snobbery that caused an eminent art critic to recently opine on Radio 4 that he hadn’t seen a few Caravaggios being shown off in a London exhibition – because they had been “hidden away in places like Hull and Preston”. They might as well have been on the moon, though he would no doubt have seen them had they been hung in Florence or Paris. '
Just as school trips are used to show foreign countries to British kids or in an domestic equivalent to show London to non-London kids or farms to urban kids perhaps its time that some of the 'metropolitan elite' took an opportunity to see Blueland.
How many pb-ers have actually been to Preston or Hull ?
(I'd be surprised if there are any Caravaggios in either place, but the essential point that the Arts World is absurdly over-concentrated in London is surely true).
I've been to Hull. I've started taking my wife on trips to places outside of London as she's been here since 2005 and seen little of the country. We did Bournemouth recently, we have Swansea (long story) and Bath lined up for the Christmas/New Year break.
You are taking your wife to Swansea in mid-winter as a treat? Brave.
I have been to Swansea in Feb (visiting friends), the Mumbles were magnificent and we had a great time on the beach in the winter sun. Swansea itself looked better at a distance, though there is something magnificent about a major industrial site like Port Talbot.
The Mumbles and the Gower are quite fantastic, all year round. Rhossili Beach is one of the best beaches going.
Right. Los Alamos was mainly weapons, and nuclear weapons have not, yet, changed the world to that extent. If you want to go nuke, go for the stands at Stagg Field, which led to both the civilian and military nuke programs.
If you want a US place, Kitty Hawk. A place that truly changed the world, and was chosen to do so.
On an AA Gill related theme does anyone know who the art critic referred to here is:
' It ilitan elite' took an opportunity to see Blueland.
How many pb-ers have actually been to Preston or Hull ?
(I'd be surprised if there are any Caravaggios in either place, but the essential point that the Arts World is absurdly over-concentrated in London is surely true).
Never been to either. In fact never been to any city in the north of England except Liverpool if that counts. The peak district is nice though.
Well then you're missing out.
Newcastle has an extremely handsome town centre and striking riverfront setting. Durham is incredible around the cathedral. York is of course wondrous.
Even Manchester is interesting, with its vital role in the industrial revolution (and Coalbrookdale is like Florence: a place where the world changed - magical and compelling).
Not actively avoiding them - I dontdoubt they are nice to visit.. Just don't have friends in those places. I've actually never even heard of CoalBrookdale.
WTF !!!!!
You've never heard of Coalbrookdale? And you call yourself an Englishman! Nay, you are a swine sir, a lowly swine not worthy to provide the bacon for a true Englishman. You might as well decamp and live in Paris, or Pollok.
Coalbrookdale is home to a bridge so famous it is not just called an 'iron bridge'; it is *the* Iron Bridge (*). The Iron Bridge. Not an Iron Bridge. The Iron Bridge.
(My username might have something to do with this rant)
(*) Though there is a Metal Bridge just off the M6 on the Engish-Scottish border.
Polling school friends to determine if this is a lesson I slept through or a wider indictment of our school.
As an aside... If you've seen the Jeff Stelling rant about Hartlepool and Middlesborough... That definitely applies to me.
The Industrial Revolution (and Ironbridge and Coalbrookdale) was certainly taught at my fairly bog standard comprehensive back in the 1970s. And rightly so.
I'd add Cromford, Derbyshire, to the list of vitally important British industrial revolution locations. And indeed Manchester.
Right. Los Alamos was mainly weapons, and nuclear weapons have not, yet, changed the world to that extent. If you want to go nuke, go for the stands at Stagg Field, which led to both the civilian and military nuke programs.
If you want a US place, Kitty Hawk. A place that truly changed the world, and was chosen to do so.
A better question: where will the next place be?
Surely the US place should be Silicon Valley. It's not that interesting to visit though.
On an AA Gill related theme does anyone know who the art critic referred to here is:
' It is the same snobbery that caused an eminent art critic to recently opine on Radio 4 that he hadn’t seen a few Caravaggios being shown off in a London exhibition – because they had been “hidden away in places like Hull and Preston”. They might as well have been on the moon, though he would no doubt have seen them had they been hung in Florence or Paris. '
Just as school trips are used to show foreign countries to British kids or in an domestic equivalent to show London to non-London kids or farms to urban kids perhaps its time that some of the 'metropolitan elite' took an opportunity to see Blueland.
How many pb-ers have actually been to Preston or Hull ?
(I'd be surprised if there are any Caravaggios in either place, but the essential point that the Arts World is absurdly over-concentrated in London is surely true).
Never been to either. In fact never been to any city in the north of England except Liverpool if that counts. The peak district is nice though.
You've never been to Manchester, Leeds, Bradford, Sheffield, York, Newcastle, Hull? And presumably if you're mentioning the Peak District, never been to the Lake District, the Yorkshire Dales, the North York Moors, Northumberland? How? I'm not being rude, but assuming you're British and an adult, what extremes of geography can have led to that beeing the case?
You are correct in all of those. I mean I got off a coach in Newcastle once but otherwise yes.
I would say of my friends from home in the South they would be the same except a few with northern family; and the odd football match (stereotypical southern man utd fans going to old Trafford). Apart from lake district which I'm definitely unusual in not having been to.
It might be a generational thing? In my 20s...
Plenty of time yet then! But did none of your friends go to northern universities? That was the time at which the number of cities I visited started to ramp up - that, and making friends from my university with other home cities. A hobby which includes travel to places you wouldn't otherwise visit is also a bonus (like sport, or like doing what Sunil does).
Only Sheffield... Never got around to visiting. My uni friends for some reason were mainly London; Wales and northern Ireland.
On an AA Gill related theme does anyone know who the art critic referred to here is:
' It ilitan elite' took an opportunity to see Blueland.
How many pb-ers have actually been to Preston or Hull ?
(I'd be surprised if there are any Caravaggios in either place, but the essential point that the Arts World is absurdly over-concentrated in London is surely true).
Never been to either. In fact never been to any city in the north of England except Liverpool if that counts. The peak district is nice though.
Well then you're missing out.
Newcastle has an extremely handsome town centre and striking riverfront setting. Durham is incredible around the cathedral. York is of course wondrous.
Even Manchester is interesting, with its vital role in the industrial revolution (and Coalbrookdale is like Florence: a place where the world changed - magical and compelling).
Not actively avoiding them - I dontdoubt they are nice to visit.. Just don't have friends in those places. I've actually never even heard of CoalBrookdale.
WTF !!!!!
You've never heard of Coalbrookdale? And you call yourself an Englishman! Nay, you are a swine sir, a lowly swine not worthy to provide the bacon for a true Englishman. You might as well decamp and live in Paris, or Pollok.
Coalbrookdale is home to a bridge so famous it is not just called an 'iron bridge'; it is *the* Iron Bridge (*). The Iron Bridge. Not an Iron Bridge. The Iron Bridge.
(My username might have something to do with this rant)
(*) Though there is a Metal Bridge just off the M6 on the Engish-Scottish border.
Polling school friends to determine if this is a lesson I slept through or a wider indictment of our school.
As an aside... If you've seen the Jeff Stelling rant about Hartlepool and Middlesborough... That definitely applies to me.
The Industrial Revolution (and Ironbridge and Coalbrookdale) was certainly taught at my fairly bog standard comprehensive back in the 1970s. And rightly so.
You can make a better case for Cromford in Derbyshire as the cradle of the Industrial Revolution. Mechanised factory production....
Right. Los Alamos was mainly weapons, and nuclear weapons have not, yet, changed the world to that extent. If you want to go nuke, go for the stands at Stagg Field, which led to both the civilian and military nuke programs.
If you want a US place, Kitty Hawk. A place that truly changed the world, and was chosen to do so.
A better question: where will the next place be?
The Apollo 11 landing site or something.
The whole Apollo program was a dead end. It hasn't led to anything. If you're after rocketry, then as someone said below, Peenemünde.
But one really has to be Kitty Hawk. The place flight started; the place the world became smaller.
On an AA Gill related theme does anyone know who the art critic referred to here is:
' It isondon kids or farms to urban kids perhaps its time that some of the 'metropolitan elite' took an opportunity to see Blueland.
How many pb-ers have actually been to Preston or Hull ?
(I'd be surprised if there are any Caravaggios in either place, but the essential point that the Arts World is absurdly over-concentrated in London is surely true).
Never been to either. In fact never been to any city in the north of England except Liverpool if that counts. The peak district is nice though.
You've nof geography can have led to that beeing the case?
You are correct in all of those. I mean I got off a coach in Newcastle once but otherwise yes.
I would say of my friends from home in the South they would be the same except a few with northern family; and the odd football match (stereotypical southern man utd fans going to old Trafford). Apart from lake district which I'm definitely unusual in not having been to.
It might be a generational thing? In my 20s...
Plenty of time yet then! But did none of your friends go to northern universities? That was the time at which the number of cities I visited started to ramp up - that, and making friends from my university with other home cities. A hobby which includes travel to places you wouldn't otherwise visit is also a bonus (like sport, or like doing what Sunil does).
Or twitching. About the only bit of Great Britain I haven't visited chasing rare birds is Herefordshire. A weird avian black hole....
Where i grew up. Herefordshire. Nikolaus Pevsner reckoned it the most beautiful county in Britain, partly because it was the least spoiled. He wasn't wrong.
The Industrial Revolution (and Ironbridge and Coalbrookdale) was certainly taught at my fairly bog standard comprehensive back in the 1970s. And rightly so.
You can make a better case for Cromford in Derbyshire as the cradle of the Industrial Revolution. Mechanised factory production....
As much as I love Cromford and Derbyshire, it'd be Coalbrookdale for me. Or perhaps the little-known Etruria Works, which predated Cromford by a couple of years and combined factory production, modern transport and brilliant salesmanship.
Why so many firsts in the Midlands? Perhaps the Lunar Society ...
Right. Los Alamos was mainly weapons, and nuclear weapons have not, yet, changed the world to that extent. If you want to go nuke, go for the stands at Stagg Field, which led to both the civilian and military nuke programs.
If you want a US place, Kitty Hawk. A place that truly changed the world, and was chosen to do so.
A better question: where will the next place be?
The Apollo 11 landing site or something.
The whole Apollo program was a dead end. It hasn't led to anything. If you're after rocketry, then as someone said below, Peenemünde.
But one really has to be Kitty Hawk. The place flight started; the place the world became smaller.
Again, no. The human mind did not change at Kitty Hawk. Tho it has a better claim than Los Alamos.
A case could be made for the Ice Age cave art of the Dordogne and Pyrenees, where and when something seemed to happen to the human soul. But it is stretched over many millennia, and it possibly happened elsewhere, too.
Last month I visited this place: Mungo Lake in Willandra, New South Wales. Site of the world's oldest non-African skeleton, site of the world's oldest cremation, and therefore site of the earliest evidence for human religious belief. It is also - according to studies published this summer - the site with the longest continuous human civilisation. 3000 generations, back to 75,000 BC.
That said, I'm not sure the human world CHANGED here
Erasamus Darwin, a major figure in the Lunar Society, was Charles Darwin's grandfather. Perhpas topically for PB. he was also the grandfather of Francis Galton.
Right. Los Alamos was mainly weapons, and nuclear weapons have not, yet, changed the world to that extent. If you want to go nuke, go for the stands at Stagg Field, which led to both the civilian and military nuke programs.
If you want a US place, Kitty Hawk. A place that truly changed the world, and was chosen to do so.
A better question: where will the next place be?
The Apollo 11 landing site or something.
The whole Apollo program was a dead end. It hasn't led to anything. If you're after rocketry, then as someone said below, Peenemünde.
But one really has to be Kitty Hawk. The place flight started; the place the world became smaller.
Again, no. The human mind did not change at Kitty Hawk. Tho it has a better claim than Los Alamos.
A case could be made for the Ice Age cave art of the Dordogne and Pyrenees, where and when something seemed to happen to the human soul. But it is stretched over many millennia, and it possibly happened elsewhere, too.
Last month I visited this place: Mungo Lake in Willandra, New South Wales. Site of the world's oldest non-African skeleton, site of the world's oldest cremation, and therefore site of the earliest evidence for human religious belief. It is also - according to studies published this summer - the site with the longest continuous human civilisation. 3000 generations, back to 75,000 BC.
That said, I'm not sure the human world CHANGED here
Type “jews are” into Google, for example, and until now the site would autofill “jews are evil” before recommending links to several rightwing antisemitic hate sites.
These kind of polls are nonsense....according to Sir Lynton. They are the sort of polls that showed that Ed Miliband's proposals were really popular.
Its an interesting poll but commissioned by Open Britain and as such should be taken with a pinch of scepticism.
I voted remain and campaigned for remain but now I accept that Brexit is going to happen and don't think we should try and stop it, in fact I want the government to get on with it, so that it is clear to people that the shit that is about to hit us is a direct consequence of their democratic decision. If only one in ten people are willing to lose £100 per month on Brexit then the people need to suck it up and take responsibility for their actions because they were warned - many many times - that Brexit would harm living standards. I personally believe the cost is going to be far, far worse than £100 per month. I still hope for the best, and I am happy to wait and see, but i'd rather live in a democracy and finally resolve this european problem than get dragged back in to an institution there is absolutely no enthusiasm for amongst the population.
Right. Los Alamos was mainly weapons, and nuclear weapons have not, yet, changed the world to that extent. If you want to go nuke, go for the stands at Stagg Field, which led to both the civilian and military nuke programs.
If you want a US place, Kitty Hawk. A place that truly changed the world, and was chosen to do so.
A better question: where will the next place be?
The Apollo 11 landing site or something.
The whole Apollo program was a dead end. It hasn't led to anything. If you're after rocketry, then as someone said below, Peenemünde.
But one really has to be Kitty Hawk. The place flight started; the place the world became smaller.
Right. Los Alamos was mainly weapons, and nuclear weapons have not, yet, changed the world to that extent. If you want to go nuke, go for the stands at Stagg Field, which led to both the civilian and military nuke programs.
If you want a US place, Kitty Hawk. A place that truly changed the world, and was chosen to do so.
A better question: where will the next place be?
The Apollo 11 landing site or something.
The whole Apollo program was a dead end. It hasn't led to anything. If you're after rocketry, then as someone said below, Peenemünde.
But one really has to be Kitty Hawk. The place flight started; the place the world became smaller.
From my (perhaps incorrect) knowledge that's wrong: development of integrated circuits was started before the Apollo program, by Kirby (sp?) at TI. They were highly used by the program but the development was occurring anyway. Both civil applications and military (the US missile program) were much bigger drivers of development.
As an example, I'm not sure there was much connection between the people at INTegrated ELectronics in 1968 and the Apollo program.
Right. Los Alamos was mainly weapons, and nuclear weapons have not, yet, changed the world to that extent. If you want to go nuke, go for the stands at Stagg Field, which led to both the civilian and military nuke programs.
If you want a US place, Kitty Hawk. A place that truly changed the world, and was chosen to do so.
A better question: where will the next place be?
The Apollo 11 landing site or something.
The whole Apollo program was a dead end. It hasn't led to anything. If you're after rocketry, then as someone said below, Peenemünde.
But one really has to be Kitty Hawk. The place flight started; the place the world became smaller.
Again, no. The human mind did not change at Kitty Hawk. Tho it has a better claim than Los Alamos.
A case could be made for the Ice Age cave art of the Dordogne and Pyrenees, where and when something seemed to happen to the human soul. But it is stretched over many millennia, and it possibly happened elsewhere, too.
Last month I visited this place: Mungo Lake in Willandra, New South Wales. Site of the world's oldest non-African skeleton, site of the world's oldest cremation, and therefore site of the earliest evidence for human religious belief. It is also - according to studies published this summer - the site with the longest continuous human civilisation. 3000 generations, back to 75,000 BC.
That said, I'm not sure the human world CHANGED here
The more I think about it, the more I disagree. Flight has changed human society an the world.
if you include Kitty Hawk because of flight (and I see the romance), then I think you have to include the invention of the computer and Charles Babbage, with his Difference Engine, in Marylebone, London, in the 1820s
Computers have clearly changed the world forever ... but not really Babbage's Difference Engine or the huge mainframes (ENIAC or MANIAC) developed after the war.
It was the invention of graphical interfaces that led to the nimble machines we have today. They haven driven all other computer life to extinction.
So, it probably is Bay Area, Stanford, Silicon Valley that really holds the claim to have changed the world.
A pity I missed this morning's thread on the death of the Labour Party. With your indulgence here is something I wrote on the subject this morning addressed to like-minded depressive comrades:
What are we here to do? Are we looking to remove the hated Tories from power so that they can stop hurting people? Do we want to implement democratic socialism again in the UK, fight injustice and reduce inequality? Is it the Tories we are against? Or our fellow comrades in our own party?
I shouldn't need to ask. But despite two lengthy leadership elections and two landslide wins for Jeremy Corbyn all topics seem to come immediately relate back to the leader. This movement, this party are far bigger than any individual. And will outlast Jeremy's period as leader as it outlasted Blair, Kinnock, Wilson, Attlee, MacDonald, Hardy... The debates we have can't be about the whys and wherefores of Jeremy Corbyn. He is the leader of this party and will remain so until he resigns - as all party leaders of every party eventually resign.
So debates about the calamity we face aren't about the leader. They are about us. About how we get the Labour party to reconnect to the electorate. How we communicate. What we communicate. There are no challengers. No contenders. The leadership question is settled and we need to stop harping back to it either directly or by commenting on the various perceived groups and factions.
But (and its only my opinion) we face a calamity. Now down to 25% in the polls and the direction of travel is downwards. But polls only reflect the public mood. And we're not registering on the public consciousness. We aren't saying a lot with any consistency at the moment, but what little we do say is ignored or even ridiculed. I'm sick of this party being the subject of derision amongst the middle class 80% of the population who used to vote for us.
A lot of our debates and arguments seem unrelated to the lives of the public. Right now they don’t want “socialism” which sounds more Bolshevik every time someone demands its return. They aren’t interested in ownership - especially if the “privatised” NHS clinic we decry sees them quickly and efficiently. In large parts of the country people have real issues with their communities changing before their eyes - our response has been to call them racist or stupid.
We’ve stopped talking to voters and started lecturing them instead. About Brexit. About the economy. That the “MSM” is evil and that if they voted for a Labour MP they’ve been stupid as that MP represents “the PLP” and not the new Labour Party.
We need to stop doing all of this. It’s literally driving people away and they don’t care what we think any more - we’re not getting media attention because “the MSM” but because we’ve made ourselves irrelevant. (Part 2 to follow)
Right. Los Alamos was mainly weapons, and nuclear weapons have not, yet, changed the world to that extent. If you want to go nuke, go for the stands at Stagg Field, which led to both the civilian and military nuke programs.
If you want a US place, Kitty Hawk. A place that truly changed the world, and was chosen to do so.
A better question: where will the next place be?
The Apollo 11 landing site or something.
The whole Apollo program was a dead end. It hasn't led to anything. If you're after rocketry, then as someone said below, Peenemünde.
But one really has to be Kitty Hawk. The place flight started; the place the world became smaller.
Again, no. The human mind did not change at Kitty Hawk. Tho it has a better claim than Los Alamos.
A case could be made for the Ice Age cave art of the Dordogne and Pyrenees, where and when something seemed to happen to the human soul. But it is stretched over many millennia, and it possibly happened elsewhere, too.
Last month I visited this place: Mungo Lake in Willandra, New South Wales. Site of the world's oldest non-African skeleton, site of the world's oldest cremation, and therefore site of the earliest evidence for human religious belief. It is also - according to studies published this summer - the site with the longest continuous human civilisation. 3000 generations, back to 75,000 BC.
That said, I'm not sure the human world CHANGED here
The more I think about it, the more I disagree. Flight has changed human society an the world.
if you include Kitty Hawk because of flight (and I see the romance), then I think you have to include the invention of the computer and Charles Babbage, with his Difference Engine, in Marylebone, London, in the 1820s
For that matter, you need to include the twin cities of Mecca and Medina. what happened there in the 6th Century changed the world.
The invention of gunpowder in China, the destruction of the Library at Alexandra, the Russian October revolution, the French Revolution, the Portuguese sailing past the Cape of good Hope, the landing of the Mayflower are all events or places that fundamentally altered our view of the world.
Right. Los Alamos was mainly weapons, and nuclear weapons have not, yet, changed the world to that extent. If you want to go nuke, go for the stands at Stagg Field, which led to both the civilian and military nuke programs.
If you want a US place, Kitty Hawk. A place that truly changed the world, and was chosen to do so.
A better question: where will the next place be?
We should hope that nuclear weapons won't change the world.
We need strategy. And what seems clear is that there is none. Our leaders have spent decades valiantly campaigning against things. Now they need to campaign for things and we end up “we’re against this” because thats what they know and there is no-one advising them on the alternative.
You can’t win elections by opposing. You have to offer a positive platform for tomorrow, not just complain about yesterday. So, Ian’s 2017 turnaround plan for the party (which won’t happen): Agree a post-Brexit plan. Opposing Brexit will demolish us in the north and midlands, but there’s the 48% who voted for remain. So we need a half-way house. Which happily exists and is called EFTA. It gives us acess to the single market and autonomy on most issues that people want autonomy on (http://www.efta.int/faq). Our campaign should be for EFTA membership. We respect the decision to leave, and propose what we do next
Beg Alastair Campbell to come back. We need the grid - the political events of the week/month to come and what we’re doing to campaign on them. We need spin, we need effective communication. No point John McDonnell crafting the rather brilliant “6 wasted years” attack line if we never use it again. JC is irrelevant to many voters and us with him, so we need spin to wedge us back into the political consciousness
Agree as a party that we want to win the election. Not to settle for 20% voting for true socialism as the Tories win a landslide. This shouldn’t be controversial but is - dogmatic ideological zeal has swept the new membership and awoken in some of the older. Labour MPs are Labour MPs and I’d have any of them over any Tory MP.
Stop banging on about the evils of capitalism and ownership and the MSM. We have some very real problems caused by the excesses of capitalism which we need to legislate on. Making our campaign about capitalism is far too broad and will (is) driving people away in their droves. Politics is compromise. We want people to have well paid secure jobs don’t we? That means successful businesses generating sales and profits.
Focus on the cost of living crisis. Forget big ethereal campaigns on ownership. Forget going to sodding Cuba rallies. Start talking about how people can’t pay their bills. Can’t find somewhere to live. Can’t work because no affordable childcare. Or public transport. Or adult social care for their parents. Talk about right and wrong - people have become numbed to it but they know right and wrong and labelling wrong as wrong is a vote winner.
This isn’t about me It's about all those poor bastards out there who can’t make ends meet and can’t see an end to it. We can’t fail because if we do they fail. And then in comes fascism again. And it's coming. We can stop it. If we wake up from this idiocy and start to be a political movement again and stop being the branch Davidians lead into the Wako compound by our very own Koresh-ian messiah figure.
Right. Los Alamos was mainly weapons, and nuclear weapons have not, yet, changed the world to that extent. If you want to go nuke, go for the stands at Stagg Field, which led to both the civilian and military nuke programs.
If you want a US place, Kitty Hawk. A place that truly changed the world, and was chosen to do so.
A better question: where will the next place be?
The Apollo 11 landing site or something.
The whole Apollo program was a dead end. It hasn't led to anything. If you're after rocketry, then as someone said below, Peenemünde.
But one really has to be Kitty Hawk. The place flight started; the place the world became smaller.
Again, no. The human mind did not change at Kitty Hawk. Tho it has a better claim than Los Alamos.
A case could be made for the Ice Age cave art of the Dordogne and Pyrenees, where and when something seemed to happen to the human soul. But it is stretched over many millennia, and it possibly happened elsewhere, too.
Last month I visited this place: Mungo Lake in Willandra, New South Wales. Site of the world's oldest non-African skeleton, site of the world's oldest cremation, and therefore site of the earliest evidence for human religious belief. It is also - according to studies published this summer - the site with the longest continuous human civilisation. 3000 generations, back to 75,000 BC.
That said, I'm not sure the human world CHANGED here
The more I think about it, the more I disagree. Flight has changed human society an the world.
if you include Kitty Hawk because of flight (and I see the romance), then I think you have to include the invention of the computer and Charles Babbage, with his Difference Engine, in Marylebone, London, in the 1820s
Sadly, as much as I love Babbage and Ada, I'm not sure their progress had much effect on the development of computers before, during and after WWII. They were a dead end.
Actually, Babbage has a much bigger, indirect claim to fame: he needed more accurate nuts and bolts, as every blacksmith had their own standard. His manufacturer, Joseph Clement, had a junior called Joseph Whitworth, who found fame and fortune by developing machines to make standardised threads. That begat the Whitworth standard, perhaps the first worldwide standard.
The British public will not accept a Brexit deal that leaves them worse off financially, a new poll suggests.
'Will not accept...'? What do they intend to do about it if it does?
Blame the Remoaners, the EU and immigrants that much more. Notch up the tone of the rhetoric.
That's the logic of populism, demagoguery and ideologues. They blame their enemies, and if they haven't got enemies, they make them up. Cue the Corbynites who blame the media and the PLP. Trump....that's going to be fun to see who he lashes out at as his little popularity crashes. And Brexiters......Remoaners and the EU...
It ain't pretty, but populism and ideology isn't pretty.
What is that develops people's taste for architecture, and why does it differ so much - some swoon over cottages, others over Sydney Opera House). As with music, there's a tendency to despise people with different taste ("you can't like that crap, you moron"). Has anyone tried to establish any osrt of consensus basic rules - that people prefer symmetry or like variation, for instance?
Some of it spills over from other areas. Romantics like "lived-in" buildings where you can speculate about the origin orf this dent or that quirky ceiling; "progressives" in the old sense of future-loving types like clean lines seemingly unspoiled by human touch. Most of us like various things, but perhaps we all have pet hates?
What is that develops people's taste for architecture, and why does it differ so much - some swoon over cottages, others over Sydney Opera House). As with music, there's a tendency to despise people with different taste ("you can't like that crap, you moron"). Has anyone tried to establish any osrt of consensus basic rules - that people prefer symmetry or like variation, for instance?
Some of it spills over from other areas. Romantics like "lived-in" buildings where you can speculate about the origin orf this dent or that quirky ceiling; "progressives" in the old sense of future-loving types like clean lines seemingly unspoiled by human touch. Most of us like various things, but perhaps we all have pet hates?
What is that develops people's taste for architecture, and why does it differ so much - some swoon over cottages, others over Sydney Opera House). As with music, there's a tendency to despise people with different taste ("you can't like that crap, you moron"). Has anyone tried to establish any osrt of consensus basic rules - that people prefer symmetry or like variation, for instance?
Some of it spills over from other areas. Romantics like "lived-in" buildings where you can speculate about the origin orf this dent or that quirky ceiling; "progressives" in the old sense of future-loving types like clean lines seemingly unspoiled by human touch. Most of us like various things, but perhaps we all have pet hates?
I hate the Opera, Musical Theatre and anything with a choir...... I would pay not to go to any of the aforementioned but I love Jazz, all types, even avant guarde, post modernist jazz which I accept isn't to everyone's fancy...
But to despise someone for what their tastes in music....isn't that going a bit far? I don't even remotely dislike people who voted Trump or Brexit....I just choose not to have anything to do with them because I would end up arguing with them. The only people I dislike are people who commit horrible crimes, and even then when I have got to know them (through work say), I have found them sometimes to be quite agreeable.
A pity I missed this morning's thread on the death of the Labour Party. With your indulgence here is something I wrote on the subject this morning addressed to like-minded depressive comrades:
What are we here to do? Are we looking to remove the hated Tories from power so that they can stop hurting people? Do we want to implement democratic socialism again in the UK, fight injustice and reduce inequality? Is it the Tories we are against? Or our fellow comrades in our own party?
I shouldn't need to ask. But despite two lengthy leadership elections and two landslide wins for Jeremy Corbyn all topics seem to come immediately relate back to the leader. This movement, this party are far bigger than any individual. And will outlast Jeremy's period as leader as it outlasted Blair, Kinnock, Wilson, Attlee, MacDonald, Hardy... The debates we have can't be about the whys and wherefores of Jeremy Corbyn. He is the leader of this party and will remain so until he resigns - as all party leaders of every party eventually resign.
So debates about the calamity we face aren't about the leader. They are about us. About how we get the Labour party to reconnect to the electorate. How we communicate. What we communicate. There are no challengers. No contenders. The leadership question is settled and we need to stop harping back to it either directly or by commenting on the various perceived groups and factions.
But (and its only my opinion) we face a calamity. Now down to 25% in the polls and the direction of travel is downwards. But polls only reflect the public mood. And we're not registering on the public consciousness. We aren't saying a lot with any consistency at the moment, but what little we do say is ignored or even ridiculed. I'm sick of this party being the subject of derision amongst the middle class 80% of the population who used to vote for us.
A lot of our debates and arguments seem unrelated to the lives of the public. Right now they don’t want “socialism” which sounds more Bolshevik every time someone demands its return. They aren’t interested in ownership - especially if the “privatised” NHS clinic we decry sees them quickly and efficiently. In large parts of the country people have real issues with their communities changing before their eyes - our response has been to call them racist or stupid.
We’ve stopped talking to voters and started lecturing them instead. About Brexit. About the economy. That the “MSM” is evil and that if they voted for a Labour MP they’ve been stupid as that MP represents “the PLP” and not the new Labour Party.
We need to stop doing all of this. It’s literally driving people away and they don’t care what we think any more - we’re not getting media attention because “the MSM” but because we’ve made ourselves irrelevant. (Part 2 to follow)
Right. Los Alamos was mainly weapons, and nuclear weapons have not, yet, changed the world to that extent. If you want to go nuke, go for the stands at Stagg Field, which led to both the civilian and military nuke programs.
If you want a US place, Kitty Hawk. A place that truly changed the world, and was chosen to do so.
A better question: where will the next place be?
The Apollo 11 landing site or something.
The whole Apollo program was a dead end. It hasn't led to anything. If you're after rocketry, then as someone said below, Peenemünde.
But one really has to be Kitty Hawk. The place flight started; the place the world became smaller.
The more I think about it, the more I disagree. Flight has changed human society an the world.
if you include Kitty Hawk because of flight (and I see the romance), then I think you have to include the invention of the computer and Charles Babbage, with his Difference Engine, in Marylebone, London, in the 1820s
Computers have clearly changed the world forever ... but not really Babbage's Difference Engine or the huge mainframes (ENIAC or MANIAC) developed after the war.
It was the invention of graphical interfaces that led to the nimble machines we have today. They haven driven all other computer life to extinction.
So, it probably is Bay Area, Stanford, Silicon Valley that really holds the claim to have changed the world.
Also Down House, where Charles Darwin worked out evolution, and Isaac Newton's garden (where is that?), and Sigmund Freud's chaise longue, in Vienna
But as I say I would exclude them all, Kitty Hawk and Silicon Valley etc etc etc. They are not revolutions in the way that man interacts with the universe and perceives his place.
We have the Neolithic Revolution The monotheistic revolution The industrial revolution And arguably the Renaissance
@RochdalePioneer. Powerful arguments, also linking into David H's excellent header this morning. I am maybe one of the few that rated Ed Miliband - in that he had good and genuinely different ideas. For example that unaffordable housing is the enemy of aspiration. Unfortunately he was incapable of articulating them in a way that ordinary people could relate to. I think getting him back in a key policy role would be good for Labour, along with someone more personable as leader.
@tyson@stark: there is a correlation and causation effect. Those that support Brexit, with few exceptions, don't think there will be any significant economic downsides. The opposite applies if you support Remain
There were massive crowds in central Birmingham yesterday, mid-day. The shops / cafes etc were packed. God knows what it would have been like if we were not in the middle of the post-referendum recession.
Same in Camden market today. It's always crazy on Sundays but I'm not sure I have ever seen it so heaving. Rammed!
Last Sunday was little better. I wanted to take my older daughter and babymother to lunch, but EVERYWHERE in north London from gastropub to posh resto was booked solid, all day. We ended up with mussels and chips at Belgo Noord (and they were perfectly pleasant, to be fair)
Out and about in Colchester last 2 weeks and everywhere is really busy.
Not to matter though, a downturn WILL come (only Gordon Brown thought he had banished recessions) and Brexit will be blamed come what may.
These kind of polls are nonsense....according to Sir Lynton. They are the sort of polls that showed that Ed Miliband's proposals were really popular.
Its an interesting poll but commissioned by Open Britain and as such should be taken with a pinch of scepticism.
I voted remain and campaigned for remain but now I accept that Brexit is going to happen and don't think we should try and stop it, in fact I want the government to get on with it, so that it is clear to people that the shit that is about to hit us is a direct consequence of their democratic decision. If only one in ten people are willing to lose £100 per month on Brexit then the people need to suck it up and take responsibility for their actions because they were warned - many many times - that Brexit would harm living standards. I personally believe the cost is going to be far, far worse than £100 per month. I still hope for the best, and I am happy to wait and see, but i'd rather live in a democracy and finally resolve this european problem than get dragged back in to an institution there is absolutely no enthusiasm for amongst the population.
I hope that the predictions of damage do not come to pass, or at least are mitigated. But if they do, then the words of Sir Pterry (via Lord Vetinari) come to mind: "...no practical definition of freedom would be completely without the freedom to take the consequences. Indeed, it is the freedom upon which all the others are based.”
These kind of polls are nonsense....according to Sir Lynton. They are the sort of polls that showed that Ed Miliband's proposals were really popular.
If Ed Miliband's policies had been voted on in referendums, perhaps they would have won...
I actually think Jeremy Corbyn's policies would be popular too now. But you have to be the right messenger. A charismatic hard lefty with an easy manner of communication could present a real challenge....
the problem is there are none to be found
Corbyn's biggest issue is that as soon as he opens his mouth people stop listening which is quite a hurdle to overcome for a political leader...
Comments
As for Birmingham, I think you're generous in not saying 'definitely' instead of 'perhaps'.
Opening day of the new Sunbridgewells bars and shops complex, in the city centre, draws thousands of visitors
http://www.thetelegraphandargus.co.uk/news/14959079.Opening_day_of_the_new_Sunbridgewells_bars_and_shops_complex__in_the_city_centre__draws_thousands_of_visitors/
http://www.dailynewsbin.com/opinion/deeply-in-debt-to-russians-donald-trump-may-only-be-running-for-president-to-avoid-bankruptcy/25398/
I told him to take a trip to Swansea.
He came back admitting his place was not too bad after all.
(If you live in Swansea, transfer this joke to Newport. If you live in Newport...you have my sympathy.)
You've never heard of Coalbrookdale? And you call yourself an Englishman! Nay, you are a swine sir, a lowly swine not worthy to provide the bacon for a true Englishman. You might as well decamp and live in Paris, or Pollok.
Coalbrookdale is home to a bridge so famous it is not just called an 'iron bridge'; it is *the* Iron Bridge (*). The Iron Bridge. Not an Iron Bridge. The Iron Bridge.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Iron_Bridge
(My username might have something to do with this rant)
(*) Though there is a Metal Bridge just off the M6 on the Engish-Scottish border.
Birmingham, definitely, not !
For a start, it offers a quick route out.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iFmozCnOLew
As an aside... If you've seen the Jeff Stelling rant about Hartlepool and Middlesborough... That definitely applies to me.
At least one explosion has been heard outside Istanbul's Besiktas sports stadium, Turkish media and witnesses say.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-38276794
BREAKING NEWS: More than 20 people including riot squad officers are injured by car bomb blast targeting police van outside major Istanbul football match
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4020812/More-20-injured-massive-explosion-near-Istanbul-football-stadium.html
You can say half of his cabinet are Corporate CEO's and the other half are Military men, with the sole Ben Carson in the middle.
But did none of your friends go to northern universities? That was the time at which the number of cities I visited started to ramp up - that, and making friends from my university with other home cities.
A hobby which includes travel to places you wouldn't otherwise visit is also a bonus (like sport, or like doing what Sunil does).
"Especially tantalizing is the mystery of which parts of pure mathematics bear on reality, and why."
That reminds me of the famous quote from Einstein ... "As far as the laws of mathematics refer to reality, they are not certain, and as far as they are certain, they do not refer to reality."
Back to reality. I've been to most Northern cities. Mostly good apart from Sunderland ... they seemed have the most ugly women in the country. I'm sure I used to prop against better-looking people, but it could just have been a bad day.
If you're ever stuck in Liverpool, go to the Walker gallery - not the Tate, as it's a load of pretentious shite.
Police seem sorta out of control.
A derelict missile launch site in Germany perhaps, Peenemunde comes to mind.
New Brighton is a bit more rough and ready, but also definitely worth a visit.
And I'm pleased you're finding Manchester so rewarding! You will like Newcastle too, and Ilford Road is in one of it's nicer suburban areas so worth a visit if you're in looking-at-England mode.
Regardless with so many Goldman Sachs people and so many Generals and Admirals in Trump's team no one would have an interest to do so.
The guy has put Wall Street and the Pentagon in charge of the country.
If you want a US place, Kitty Hawk. A place that truly changed the world, and was chosen to do so.
A better question: where will the next place be?
But one really has to be Kitty Hawk. The place flight started; the place the world became smaller.
Why so many firsts in the Midlands? Perhaps the Lunar Society ...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lunar_Society_of_Birmingham
Have you been in a coma all year ?
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/dec/10/miliband-soft-brexit-labour-conflict-grows-migration
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Francis_Galton
'Will not accept...'? What do they intend to do about it if it does?
Or George "I told you so" Osborne of course
Type “jews are” into Google, for example, and until now the site would autofill “jews are evil” before recommending links to several rightwing antisemitic hate sites.
https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2016/dec/10/google-facebook-critical-thinking-computers
I voted remain and campaigned for remain but now I accept that Brexit is going to happen and don't think we should try and stop it, in fact I want the government to get on with it, so that it is clear to people that the shit that is about to hit us is a direct consequence of their democratic decision. If only one in ten people are willing to lose £100 per month on Brexit then the people need to suck it up and take responsibility for their actions because they were warned - many many times - that Brexit would harm living standards. I personally believe the cost is going to be far, far worse than £100 per month. I still hope for the best, and I am happy to wait and see, but i'd rather live in a democracy and finally resolve this european problem than get dragged back in to an institution there is absolutely no enthusiasm for amongst the population.
https://www.nasa.gov/sites/default/files/80660main_ApolloFS.pdf
Uber Asks Everyone To Stop Making It The New Tinder
http://m.slashdot.org/story/319857
As an example, I'm not sure there was much connection between the people at INTegrated ELectronics in 1968 and the Apollo program.
It was the invention of graphical interfaces that led to the nimble machines we have today. They haven driven all other computer life to extinction.
So, it probably is Bay Area, Stanford, Silicon Valley that really holds the claim to have changed the world.
What are we here to do? Are we looking to remove the hated Tories from power so that they can stop hurting people? Do we want to implement democratic socialism again in the UK, fight injustice and reduce inequality? Is it the Tories we are against? Or our fellow comrades in our own party?
I shouldn't need to ask. But despite two lengthy leadership elections and two landslide wins for Jeremy Corbyn all topics seem to come immediately relate back to the leader. This movement, this party are far bigger than any individual. And will outlast Jeremy's period as leader as it outlasted Blair, Kinnock, Wilson, Attlee, MacDonald, Hardy... The debates we have can't be about the whys and wherefores of Jeremy Corbyn. He is the leader of this party and will remain so until he resigns - as all party leaders of every party eventually resign.
So debates about the calamity we face aren't about the leader. They are about us. About how we get the Labour party to reconnect to the electorate. How we communicate. What we communicate. There are no challengers. No contenders. The leadership question is settled and we need to stop harping back to it either directly or by commenting on the various perceived groups and factions.
But (and its only my opinion) we face a calamity. Now down to 25% in the polls and the direction of travel is downwards. But polls only reflect the public mood. And we're not registering on the public consciousness. We aren't saying a lot with any consistency at the moment, but what little we do say is ignored or even ridiculed. I'm sick of this party being the subject of derision amongst the middle class 80% of the population who used to vote for us.
A lot of our debates and arguments seem unrelated to the lives of the public. Right now they don’t want “socialism” which sounds more Bolshevik every time someone demands its return. They aren’t interested in ownership - especially if the “privatised” NHS clinic we decry sees them quickly and efficiently. In large parts of the country people have real issues with their communities changing before their eyes - our response has been to call them racist or stupid.
We’ve stopped talking to voters and started lecturing them instead. About Brexit. About the economy. That the “MSM” is evil and that if they voted for a Labour MP they’ve been stupid as that MP represents “the PLP” and not the new Labour Party.
We need to stop doing all of this. It’s literally driving people away and they don’t care what we think any more - we’re not getting media attention because “the MSM” but because we’ve made ourselves irrelevant. (Part 2 to follow)
The invention of gunpowder in China, the destruction of the Library at Alexandra, the Russian October revolution, the French Revolution, the Portuguese sailing past the Cape of good Hope, the landing of the Mayflower are all events or places that fundamentally altered our view of the world.
We need strategy. And what seems clear is that there is none. Our leaders have spent decades valiantly campaigning against things. Now they need to campaign for things and we end up “we’re against this” because thats what they know and there is no-one advising them on the alternative.
You can’t win elections by opposing. You have to offer a positive platform for tomorrow, not just complain about yesterday. So, Ian’s 2017 turnaround plan for the party (which won’t happen):
Agree a post-Brexit plan. Opposing Brexit will demolish us in the north and midlands, but there’s the 48% who voted for remain. So we need a half-way house. Which happily exists and is called EFTA. It gives us acess to the single market and autonomy on most issues that people want autonomy on (http://www.efta.int/faq). Our campaign should be for EFTA membership. We respect the decision to leave, and propose what we do next
Beg Alastair Campbell to come back. We need the grid - the political events of the week/month to come and what we’re doing to campaign on them. We need spin, we need effective communication. No point John McDonnell crafting the rather brilliant “6 wasted years” attack line if we never use it again. JC is irrelevant to many voters and us with him, so we need spin to wedge us back into the political consciousness
Agree as a party that we want to win the election. Not to settle for 20% voting for true socialism as the Tories win a landslide. This shouldn’t be controversial but is - dogmatic ideological zeal has swept the new membership and awoken in some of the older. Labour MPs are Labour MPs and I’d have any of them over any Tory MP.
Stop banging on about the evils of capitalism and ownership and the MSM. We have some very real problems caused by the excesses of capitalism which we need to legislate on. Making our campaign about capitalism is far too broad and will (is) driving people away in their droves. Politics is compromise. We want people to have well paid secure jobs don’t we? That means successful businesses generating sales and profits.
Focus on the cost of living crisis. Forget big ethereal campaigns on ownership. Forget going to sodding Cuba rallies. Start talking about how people can’t pay their bills. Can’t find somewhere to live. Can’t work because no affordable childcare. Or public transport. Or adult social care for their parents. Talk about right and wrong - people have become numbed to it but they know right and wrong and labelling wrong as wrong is a vote winner.
This isn’t about me It's about all those poor bastards out there who can’t make ends meet and can’t see an end to it. We can’t fail because if we do they fail. And then in comes fascism again. And it's coming. We can stop it. If we wake up from this idiocy and start to be a political movement again and stop being the branch Davidians lead into the Wako compound by our very own Koresh-ian messiah figure.
Actually, Babbage has a much bigger, indirect claim to fame: he needed more accurate nuts and bolts, as every blacksmith had their own standard. His manufacturer, Joseph Clement, had a junior called Joseph Whitworth, who found fame and fortune by developing machines to make standardised threads. That begat the Whitworth standard, perhaps the first worldwide standard.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joseph_Whitworth
(I *love* this period and topic of history)
Blame the Remoaners, the EU and immigrants that much more. Notch up the tone of the rhetoric.
That's the logic of populism, demagoguery and ideologues. They blame their enemies, and if they haven't got enemies, they make them up. Cue the Corbynites who blame the media and the PLP. Trump....that's going to be fun to see who he lashes out at as his little popularity crashes. And Brexiters......Remoaners and the EU...
It ain't pretty, but populism and ideology isn't pretty.
Some of it spills over from other areas. Romantics like "lived-in" buildings where you can speculate about the origin orf this dent or that quirky ceiling; "progressives" in the old sense of future-loving types like clean lines seemingly unspoiled by human touch. Most of us like various things, but perhaps we all have pet hates?
But to despise someone for what their tastes in music....isn't that going a bit far? I don't even remotely dislike people who voted Trump or Brexit....I just choose not to have anything to do with them because I would end up arguing with them. The only people I dislike are people who commit horrible crimes, and even then when I have got to know them (through work say), I have found them sometimes to be quite agreeable.
Until AI ?
AI is happening now.
https://twitter.com/TSEofPB/status/807705517426667521
@tyson @stark: there is a correlation and causation effect. Those that support Brexit, with few exceptions, don't think there will be any significant economic downsides. The opposite applies if you support Remain
Not to matter though, a downturn WILL come (only Gordon Brown thought he had banished recessions) and Brexit will be blamed come what may.
Where have they gone? Didn't they want to go to school?
the problem is there are none to be found
Corbyn's biggest issue is that as soon as he opens his mouth people stop listening which is quite a hurdle to overcome for a political leader...