Will UKIP keep " Major Party " status from OFCOM in 2020 ? They'll be no EP election to win in 2019 and they'll lose all their MP's. Probably by a whisker based on 2015 vote share.
Will the Lib Dems keep " Major Party " status from OFCOM in 2020 ? They'll rely on contemporary polling and local authority gains, Richmond Park etc. The 8% and 8 seats in 2015 may not be enough in it's self. Brexit may have saved them.
Given that many on here expect the Conservatives to win a landslide in 2020, I suppose you'll be suggesting Labour shouldn't have major party status either ?
If she is well ahead, I expect Theresa May not to be interested in any debates. It may be her Cabinet Ministers (whoever they are by early 2020) will have to debate with their Labour counterparts (whoever they may be). If the election is much less clear and much more interesting (as I expect it to be), we'll see a lot more discussion about debates.
Cameron played a blinder on the debates. The big strategy was fear of a hung parliament and Milliband being bossed about by left wing munchkins nobody had ever heard of. He then secured not only a debate that put Sturgeon, Wood and Bennett on Prime Time but a challengers debate as well. Tory voters watching that witnessed an alternate time line. A Britain with no Tories. And English Tories didn't like the look of it and got to the polls.
At the ToR May faces a very similar situation. She's the only party leader who fits Britain's psychological template of what a PM should look like. It suits her to go head to head with Corbyn or have the Munchkins all on show. But 3 all party debates like 2010 ? Ain't gonna happen.
A bit pyrrhic for Cameron though, wasn't it? A hung Parliament would have served him better than going through that wretched referendum?
Well that's an excellent point.... And is due course Brexiters will discover this themselves. Not that we Brexit but that the Leave campaign won.
The [Cuban] Communist regime issued guidelines for the official mourning period: 1. Cubans are forbidden from saying “Good morning” (“Buenos días”) to each other. 2. No alcohol is allowed. 3. Nightlife, the lifeblood of tourism, is shut down. 4. No loud music. 5. The neighborhood watchmen, Comités de la Revolución, are keeping track of any violations to the above rules. They also keep track who shows up (or doesn’t) to sign the book of condolences at the 1,000 designated locations across the island prison after standing in line for hours under the hot sun. 6. Mourners are also compelled to sign a statement of commitment to the Revolución.
Perhaps Farage and his stooges crawling around Trump didn't do UKIP any favours after all. He came across as a little man on the make, humiliating his own country's government into the bargain. It's odd. Farage always seemed the lovable spiv on the British and European stages. Yet in America, to British eyes, he suddenly seemed a stranger - loud-mouthed and pushy, slightly threatening even. We stopped loving him as one of our own.
This isn't going to be a normal election. The whole of the first week is going to be about Nuclear War. Corbyn will be asked to repeat his commitment never to use nuclear weapons ( and as the PM is the only person who can unilaterally disarming us the moment he kisses hands.) He'll do so unequivally. They'll then be a week of media coverage where he is asked nothing else but hypothetical senarios about the destruction of Britain where he says he won't retaliate then loses his temper with the press. Voters will be asked to imagine senarios where they and there children are all dead but Corbyn is in a bunker forbidding the military to retaliate. Something tells me most of those hypotheticals will feature the rogue government of a Muslim majority state rather than Russia as well. Potential debates need to be seen through this prism. Corbyn means it won't be a normal election.
The [Cuban] Communist regime issued guidelines for the official mourning period: 1. Cubans are forbidden from saying “Good morning” (“Buenos días”) to each other. 2. No alcohol is allowed. 3. Nightlife, the lifeblood of tourism, is shut down. 4. No loud music. 5. The neighborhood watchmen, Comités de la Revolución, are keeping track of any violations to the above rules. They also keep track who shows up (or doesn’t) to sign the book of condolences at the 1,000 designated locations across the island prison after standing in line for hours under the hot sun. 6. Mourners are also compelled to sign a statement of commitment to the Revolución.
Is one of the 1,000 designated locations in Islington?
This isn't going to be a normal election. The whole of the first week is going to be about Nuclear War. Corbyn will be asked to repeat his commitment never to use nuclear weapons ( and as the PM is the only person who can unilaterally disarming us the moment he kisses hands.) He'll do so unequivally. They'll then be a week of media coverage where he is asked nothing else but hypothetical senarios about the destruction of Britain where he says he won't retaliate then loses his temper with the press. Voters will be asked to imagine senarios where they and there children are all dead but Corbyn is in a bunker forbidding the military to retaliate. Something tells me most of those hypotheticals will feature the rogue government of a Muslim majority state rather than Russia as well. Potential debates need to be seen through this prism. Corbyn means it won't be a normal election.
You never know... What if Trump and Putin agree major strategic arms reductions and NATO gets major reform or abolition? Corbyn would look like a visionary.
This isn't going to be a normal election. The whole of the first week is going to be about Nuclear War. Corbyn will be asked to repeat his commitment never to use nuclear weapons ( and as the PM is the only person who can unilaterally disarming us the moment he kisses hands.) He'll do so unequivally. They'll then be a week of media coverage where he is asked nothing else but hypothetical senarios about the destruction of Britain where he says he won't retaliate then loses his temper with the press. Voters will be asked to imagine senarios where they and there children are all dead but Corbyn is in a bunker forbidding the military to retaliate. Something tells me most of those hypotheticals will feature the rogue government of a Muslim majority state rather than Russia as well. Potential debates need to be seen through this prism. Corbyn means it won't be a normal election.
I don't actually expect Corbyn to be there in 2020.
This isn't going to be a normal election. The whole of the first week is going to be about Nuclear War. Corbyn will be asked to repeat his commitment never to use nuclear weapons ( and as the PM is the only person who can unilaterally disarming us the moment he kisses hands.) He'll do so unequivally. They'll then be a week of media coverage where he is asked nothing else but hypothetical senarios about the destruction of Britain where he says he won't retaliate then loses his temper with the press. Voters will be asked to imagine senarios where they and there children are all dead but Corbyn is in a bunker forbidding the military to retaliate. Something tells me most of those hypotheticals will feature the rogue government of a Muslim majority state rather than Russia as well. Potential debates need to be seen through this prism. Corbyn means it won't be a normal election.
You never know... What if Trump and Putin agree major strategic arms reductions and NATO gets major reform or abolition? Corbyn would look like a visionary.
Much as the LEAVE vote on June 23rd has raised important questions about the economic and societal future of the United Kingdom, so Trump's election as POTUS raises huge questions about the security and defence of the United Kingdom.
Does Trump see the nuclear annihilation of Toledo as worth the independence of Tallinn ? Essentially, that's the question - will Trump adhere to Article 5 of the NATO Treaty? If he says he won't, NATO is finished and the UK will need to make alternative arrangements for its security and defence which would have to be a rapprochement with Moscow and a new European defence structure based on Russian, French and British nuclear weapons to deter any possible threat (China in the east or Iran in the south ?)
I don't think that's likely now (though I think it will happen one day). The Trump-Putin relationship is likely to be much warmer than the Obama-Putin relationship (wouldn't be difficult). Trump may well see Washington's future with Moscow framed in different ways other than Europe (China again) leaving western Europe in a bit of a backwater.
The [Cuban] Communist regime issued guidelines for the official mourning period: 1. Cubans are forbidden from saying “Good morning” (“Buenos días”) to each other. 2. No alcohol is allowed. 3. Nightlife, the lifeblood of tourism, is shut down. 4. No loud music. 5. The neighborhood watchmen, Comités de la Revolución, are keeping track of any violations to the above rules. They also keep track who shows up (or doesn’t) to sign the book of condolences at the 1,000 designated locations across the island prison after standing in line for hours under the hot sun. 6. Mourners are also compelled to sign a statement of commitment to the Revolución.
Is one of the 1,000 designated locations in Islington?
We need a Sunrise Clause. The Government can invoke A50 when it's done X and laid notification before the HoC for 28 days with no negative vote. X being something reasonable that can unite nearly all the opposition and bring across soft Brexit Tories.
If X fails to get into the Bill in the Commons then the Lords should pass it without a vote at Second Reading but stick it into a Committee of the Full House.
And while it wouldn't attract Tory votes so not pass ( in the Commons ) an NHS amendment would be fun. In the style of the overseas aid law work out what our current % of GDP spent on the NHS is and what it would be with £350m pw added. Make spending the latter % on the NHS as a minimum law starting the April after we leave.
Will give Labour a chance to decide what their bleedin' policy actually is
So Labour will have a policy before the government does...
Diane Abbot was on C4 news yesterday and was urging the Government for more transparency - problem was when asked what Labour's policy was she turned in to burbling idiot
You can't ignore the 16 million who voted remain either. When a Government wins an election the strength of its win is reflected in the number of MPs it has - it doesn't get all 650
We need a Sunrise Clause. The Government can invoke A50 when it's done X and laid notification before the HoC for 28 days with no negative vote. X being something reasonable that can unite nearly all the opposition and bring across soft Brexit Tories.
If X fails to get into the Bill in the Commons then the Lords should pass it without a vote at Second Reading but stick it into a Committee of the Full House.
Out of curiosity YS if the vote had been 52% Remain what would you be proposing now to accommodate the wishes of the 48% who voted Leave ?
We need a Sunrise Clause. The Government can invoke A50 when it's done X and laid notification before the HoC for 28 days with no negative vote. X being something reasonable that can unite nearly all the opposition and bring across soft Brexit Tories.
If X fails to get into the Bill in the Commons then the Lords should pass it without a vote at Second Reading but stick it into a Committee of the Full House.
Out of curiosity YS if the vote had been 52% Remain what would you be proposing now to accommodate the wishes of the 48% who voted Leave ?
If 52% had voted Remain Cameron's deal would have kicked in. Cameron would have gone or be going by now. The new/next Tory leader would be a Leaver and the next referendum campaign would already have begun. I wouldn't be telling Leavers to shut up and accept the result uncritically and if I did you'd rightly laugh at me.
British politicians with a 'Messiah complex' do have a tendency of fawning towards US Presidents:
' Tony Blair wrote to George W Bush eight months before the Iraq invasion to offer his unqualified backing for war well before UN weapons inspectors had completed their work, saying: “I will be with you, whatever.” '
We need a Sunrise Clause. The Government can invoke A50 when it's done X and laid notification before the HoC for 28 days with no negative vote. X being something reasonable that can unite nearly all the opposition and bring across soft Brexit Tories.
If X fails to get into the Bill in the Commons then the Lords should pass it without a vote at Second Reading but stick it into a Committee of the Full House.
Out of curiosity YS if the vote had been 52% Remain what would you be proposing now to accommodate the wishes of the 48% who voted Leave ?
If 52% had voted Remain Cameron's deal would have kicked in. Cameron would have gone or be going by now. The new/next Tory leader would be a Leaver and the next referendum campaign would already have begun. I wouldn't be telling Leavers to shut up and accept the result uncritically and if I did you'd rightly laugh at me.
Cameron would have gone if he had won the referendum?
We need a Sunrise Clause. The Government can invoke A50 when it's done X and laid notification before the HoC for 28 days with no negative vote. X being something reasonable that can unite nearly all the opposition and bring across soft Brexit Tories.
If X fails to get into the Bill in the Commons then the Lords should pass it without a vote at Second Reading but stick it into a Committee of the Full House.
Out of curiosity YS if the vote had been 52% Remain what would you be proposing now to accommodate the wishes of the 48% who voted Leave ?
If 52% had voted Remain Cameron's deal would have kicked in. Cameron would have gone or be going by now. The new/next Tory leader would be a Leaver and the next referendum campaign would already have begun. I wouldn't be telling Leavers to shut up and accept the result uncritically and if I did you'd rightly laugh at me.
Cameron would have gone if he had won the referendum?
Yeah, just look how bitter some Leavers are even after they won the referendum.
They'd have been even worse had Remain had won, they would have made Dave's life intolerable.
We need a Sunrise Clause. The Government can invoke A50 when it's done X and laid notification before the HoC for 28 days with no negative vote. X being something reasonable that can unite nearly all the opposition and bring across soft Brexit Tories.
If X fails to get into the Bill in the Commons then the Lords should pass it without a vote at Second Reading but stick it into a Committee of the Full House.
Out of curiosity YS if the vote had been 52% Remain what would you be proposing now to accommodate the wishes of the 48% who voted Leave ?
If 52% had voted Remain Cameron's deal would have kicked in. Cameron would have gone or be going by now. The new/next Tory leader would be a Leaver and the next referendum campaign would already have begun. I wouldn't be telling Leavers to shut up and accept the result uncritically and if I did you'd rightly laugh at me.
Cameron would have gone if he had won the referendum?
If he'd only won by 52% to 48% surely he'd have gone or being going by now ? The Tory Party would never forgive him for winning and the next referendum campaign would already have started by now.
We need a Sunrise Clause. The Government can invoke A50 when it's done X and laid notification before the HoC for 28 days with no negative vote. X being something reasonable that can unite nearly all the opposition and bring across soft Brexit Tories.
If X fails to get into the Bill in the Commons then the Lords should pass it without a vote at Second Reading but stick it into a Committee of the Full House.
Out of curiosity YS if the vote had been 52% Remain what would you be proposing now to accommodate the wishes of the 48% who voted Leave ?
If 52% had voted Remain Cameron's deal would have kicked in. Cameron would have gone or be going by now. The new/next Tory leader would be a Leaver and the next referendum campaign would already have begun. I wouldn't be telling Leavers to shut up and accept the result uncritically and if I did you'd rightly laugh at me.
Oh, I think you are too pessimistic. Mr Cameron' deal wouldn't have started to unravel anything like as quickly as you suggest. It would take time for the realisation to dawn that it wasn't worth the paper it was written on.
I do agree, however, that the leavers would still be arguing that it would do so given time, and that the UK needed to leave the EU.
We need a Sunrise Clause. The Government can invoke A50 when it's done X and laid notification before the HoC for 28 days with no negative vote. X being something reasonable that can unite nearly all the opposition and bring across soft Brexit Tories.
If X fails to get into the Bill in the Commons then the Lords should pass it without a vote at Second Reading but stick it into a Committee of the Full House.
Out of curiosity YS if the vote had been 52% Remain what would you be proposing now to accommodate the wishes of the 48% who voted Leave ?
If 52% had voted Remain Cameron's deal would have kicked in. Cameron would have gone or be going by now. The new/next Tory leader would be a Leaver and the next referendum campaign would already have begun. I wouldn't be telling Leavers to shut up and accept the result uncritically and if I did you'd rightly laugh at me.
So if the 48% were Leave voters then their wishes wouldn't have to be accommodated.
But as the 48% are Remain voters their wishes do have to be accommodated.
We need a Sunrise Clause. The Government can invoke A50 when it's done X and laid notification before the HoC for 28 days with no negative vote. X being something reasonable that can unite nearly all the opposition and bring across soft Brexit Tories.
If X fails to get into the Bill in the Commons then the Lords should pass it without a vote at Second Reading but stick it into a Committee of the Full House.
Out of curiosity YS if the vote had been 52% Remain what would you be proposing now to accommodate the wishes of the 48% who voted Leave ?
If 52% had voted Remain Cameron's deal would have kicked in. Cameron would have gone or be going by now. The new/next Tory leader would be a Leaver and the next referendum campaign would already have begun. I wouldn't be telling Leavers to shut up and accept the result uncritically and if I did you'd rightly laugh at me.
Cameron would have gone if he had won the referendum?
If he'd only won by 52% to 48% surely he'd have gone or being going by now ? The Tory Party would never forgive him for winning and the next referendum campaign would already have started by now.
Not the next referendum campaign, no; the next campaign to have another referendum, yes. Although I think it would be less strident because it's so highly unlikely that anyone woud ever allow another referendum.
Even if Mr Cameron had won, he would have had far too big a fright at the narrow victory. He would have kept his pledge to hold a referendum, and would have been departing anyway before his deal came unravelled.
We need a Sunrise Clause. The Government can invoke A50 when it's done X and laid notification before the HoC for 28 days with no negative vote. X being something reasonable that can unite nearly all the opposition and bring across soft Brexit Tories.
If X fails to get into the Bill in the Commons then the Lords should pass it without a vote at Second Reading but stick it into a Committee of the Full House.
Out of curiosity YS if the vote had been 52% Remain what would you be proposing now to accommodate the wishes of the 48% who voted Leave ?
If 52% had voted Remain Cameron's deal would have kicked in. Cameron would have gone or be going by now. The new/next Tory leader would be a Leaver and the next referendum campaign would already have begun. I wouldn't be telling Leavers to shut up and accept the result uncritically and if I did you'd rightly laugh at me.
So if the 48% were Leave voters then their wishes wouldn't have to be accommodated.
But as the 48% are Remain voters their wishes do have to be accommodated.
In my scenario the Leave 48% would get a PM who was on their side and a quick acknowledgement another referendum was ' inevitable '. That sounds accommodating to me.
We need a Sunrise Clause. The Government can invoke A50 when it's done X and laid notification before the HoC for 28 days with no negative vote. X being something reasonable that can unite nearly all the opposition and bring across soft Brexit Tories.
If X fails to get into the Bill in the Commons then the Lords should pass it without a vote at Second Reading but stick it into a Committee of the Full House.
Out of curiosity YS if the vote had been 52% Remain what would you be proposing now to accommodate the wishes of the 48% who voted Leave ?
If 52% had voted Remain Cameron's deal would have kicked in. Cameron would have gone or be going by now. The new/next Tory leader would be a Leaver and the next referendum campaign would already have begun. I wouldn't be telling Leavers to shut up and accept the result uncritically and if I did you'd rightly laugh at me.
Cameron would have gone if he had won the referendum?
Yeah, just look how bitter some Leavers are even after they won the referendum.
They'd have been even worse had Remain had won, they would have made Dave's life intolerable.
And if Cameron had supported Leave as he should have done after the failed renegotiations he would be a great hero and the Conservatives would be united behind him.
Second World War: from the name of Major Vidkun Quisling (1887–1945), the Norwegian army officer and diplomat who ruled Norway on behalf of the German occupying forces (1940–45).
We need a Sunrise Clause. The Government can invoke A50 when it's done X and laid notification before the HoC for 28 days with no negative vote. X being something reasonable that can unite nearly all the opposition and bring across soft Brexit Tories.
If X fails to get into the Bill in the Commons then the Lords should pass it without a vote at Second Reading but stick it into a Committee of the Full House.
Out of curiosity YS if the vote had been 52% Remain what would you be proposing now to accommodate the wishes of the 48% who voted Leave ?
If 52% had voted Remain Cameron's deal would have kicked in. Cameron would have gone or be going by now. The new/next Tory leader would be a Leaver and the next referendum campaign would already have begun. I wouldn't be telling Leavers to shut up and accept the result uncritically and if I did you'd rightly laugh at me.
So if the 48% were Leave voters then their wishes wouldn't have to be accommodated.
But as the 48% are Remain voters their wishes do have to be accommodated.
In my scenario the Leave 48% would get a PM who was on their side and a quick acknowledgement another referendum was ' inevitable '. That sounds accommodating to me.
Leave 48%, Remain 52% would have been a far better result for Brexit in the long run because it would have made a second referendum inevitable and serious preparations would need to have been made for a Leave win.
As it is the victory is looking entirely Pyrrhic as the Brexit case continues to unravel and the main protagonists blow themselves up.
We need a Sunrise Clause. The Government can invoke A50 when it's done X and laid notification before the HoC for 28 days with no negative vote. X being something reasonable that can unite nearly all the opposition and bring across soft Brexit Tories.
If X fails to get into the Bill in the Commons then the Lords should pass it without a vote at Second Reading but stick it into a Committee of the Full House.
Out of curiosity YS if the vote had been 52% Remain what would you be proposing now to accommodate the wishes of the 48% who voted Leave ?
If 52% had voted Remain Cameron's deal would have kicked in. Cameron would have gone or be going by now. The new/next Tory leader would be a Leaver and the next referendum campaign would already have begun. I wouldn't be telling Leavers to shut up and accept the result uncritically and if I did you'd rightly laugh at me.
Cameron would have gone if he had won the referendum?
Yeah, just look how bitter some Leavers are even after they won the referendum.
They'd have been even worse had Remain had won, they would have made Dave's life intolerable.
And if Cameron had supported Leave as he should have done after the failed renegotiations he would be a great hero and the Conservatives would be united behind him.
Silly boy. Very silly boy.
He put country ahead of party, Cameron's a true patriot.
The French and German intelligence agencies must be furious. They aren't needed to spy on the British government factions to glean insights into the Brexit policy chaos. The French and German governments can just read the papers.
We need a Sunrise Clause. The Government can invoke A50 when it's done X and laid notification before the HoC for 28 days with no negative vote. X being something reasonable that can unite nearly all the opposition and bring across soft Brexit Tories.
If X fails to get into the Bill in the Commons then the Lords should pass it without a vote at Second Reading but stick it into a Committee of the Full House.
Out of curiosity YS if the vote had been 52% Remain what would you be proposing now to accommodate the wishes of the 48% who voted Leave ?
If 52% had voted Remain Cameron's deal would have kicked in. Cameron would have gone or be going by now. The new/next Tory leader would be a Leaver and the next referendum campaign would already have begun. I wouldn't be telling Leavers to shut up and accept the result uncritically and if I did you'd rightly laugh at me.
Cameron would have gone if he had won the referendum?
Yeah, just look how bitter some Leavers are even after they won the referendum.
They'd have been even worse had Remain had won, they would have made Dave's life intolerable.
And if Cameron had supported Leave as he should have done after the failed renegotiations he would be a great hero and the Conservatives would be united behind him.
Silly boy. Very silly boy.
He put country ahead of party, Cameron's a true patriot.
Ego first, school second, party third, country means to end.
OT does anyone think that the vote recount in WI,PA and MI could still overturn the election result as there does seem to be talk of trumps leads shrinking and also delays could prevent electoral college votes counting in these states if they miss the the 13 December deadline ?
We need a Sunrise Clause. The Government can invoke A50 when it's done X and laid notification before the HoC for 28 days with no negative vote. X being something reasonable that can unite nearly all the opposition and bring across soft Brexit Tories.
If X fails to get into the Bill in the Commons then the Lords should pass it without a vote at Second Reading but stick it into a Committee of the Full House.
Out of curiosity YS if the vote had been 52% Remain what would you be proposing now to accommodate the wishes of the 48% who voted Leave ?
If 52% had voted Remain Cameron's deal would have kicked in. Cameron would have gone or be going by now. The new/next Tory leader would be a Leaver and the next referendum campaign would already have begun. I wouldn't be telling Leavers to shut up and accept the result uncritically and if I did you'd rightly laugh at me.
Cameron would have gone if he had won the referendum?
Yeah, just look how bitter some Leavers are even after they won the referendum.
They'd have been even worse had Remain had won, they would have made Dave's life intolerable.
And if Cameron had supported Leave as he should have done after the failed renegotiations he would be a great hero and the Conservatives would be united behind him.
Silly boy. Very silly boy.
It's an interesting counter factual. #1 How would Labour voters and Scotland have responded to a Leave campaign led by a Tory PM ? #2 Would the broadcast media have been as deferential to £350m style nonsense from an establishment political ? #3 Would Leave have been a vote against the establishment if led by a Tory PM ?
I'm not convinced together those factors couldn't have achieved a 1.9% swing.
Unfair, Mr Meeks. Quisling was a mass murdering racist bastard who was a byword for treachery, but at least he had the balls to stay in Norway and face the consequences after the utter destruction of all his plans.
Second World War: from the name of Major Vidkun Quisling (1887–1945), the Norwegian army officer and diplomat who ruled Norway on behalf of the German occupying forces (1940–45).
We need a Sunrise Clause. The Government can invoke A50 when it's done X and laid notification before the HoC for 28 days with no negative vote. X being something reasonable that can unite nearly all the opposition and bring across soft Brexit Tories.
If X fails to get into the Bill in the Commons then the Lords should pass it without a vote at Second Reading but stick it into a Committee of the Full House.
Out of curiosity YS if the vote had been 52% Remain what would you be proposing now to accommodate the wishes of the 48% who voted Leave ?
If 52% had voted Remain Cameron's deal would have kicked in. Cameron would have gone or be going by now. The new/next Tory leader would be a Leaver and the next referendum campaign would already have begun. I wouldn't be telling Leavers to shut up and accept the result uncritically and if I did you'd rightly laugh at me.
So if the 48% were Leave voters then their wishes wouldn't have to be accommodated.
But as the 48% are Remain voters their wishes do have to be accommodated.
In my scenario the Leave 48% would get a PM who was on their side and a quick acknowledgement another referendum was ' inevitable '. That sounds accommodating to me.
Its not accommodating at all.
The UK would be in for at least another decade of EverCloserUnion after which it might have been impossible to ever leave - even if there was a Leave PM in a Leave government and after another referendum.
We can already see how difficult it is to leave the EU and that would have got harder year by year.
Meanwhile the 48% would have got abuse not accommodation.
Now compare to how the 48% Remain are treated - their views are taken into consideration and if constructive might form part of the settlement.
And if the 48% Remain are still committed to the EU then they can support a party which advocates rejoining.
I know Leavers don't like facts, but there you go.
You really do think those polls prove that Remainers are better and more important people. It's thinking like that that made it possible for Leave to win.
We need a Sunrise Clause. The Government can invoke A50 when it's done X and laid notification before the HoC for 28 days with no negative vote. X being something reasonable that can unite nearly all the opposition and bring across soft Brexit Tories.
If X fails to get into the Bill in the Commons then the Lords should pass it without a vote at Second Reading but stick it into a Committee of the Full House.
Out of curiosity YS if the vote had been 52% Remain what would you be proposing now to accommodate the wishes of the 48% who voted Leave ?
If 52% had voted Remain Cameron's deal would have kicked in. Cameron would have gone or be going by now. The new/next Tory leader would be a Leaver and the next referendum campaign would already have begun. I wouldn't be telling Leavers to shut up and accept the result uncritically and if I did you'd rightly laugh at me.
So if the 48% were Leave voters then their wishes wouldn't have to be accommodated.
But as the 48% are Remain voters their wishes do have to be accommodated.
In my scenario the Leave 48% would get a PM who was on their side and a quick acknowledgement another referendum was ' inevitable '. That sounds accommodating to me.
Leave 48%, Remain 52% would have been a far better result for Brexit in the long run because it would have made a second referendum inevitable and serious preparations would need to have been made for a Leave win.
As it is the victory is looking entirely Pyrrhic as the Brexit case continues to unravel and the main protagonists blow themselves up.
That's a really interesting point. " Leave was a victory from which Euroscepticism never recovered " ? To adapt Dangerfield.
We need a Sunrise Clause. The Government can invoke A50 when it's done X and laid notification before the HoC for 28 days with no negative vote. X being something reasonable that can unite nearly all the opposition and bring across soft Brexit Tories.
If X fails to get into the Bill in the Commons then the Lords should pass it without a vote at Second Reading but stick it into a Committee of the Full House.
Out of curiosity YS if the vote had been 52% Remain what would you be proposing now to accommodate the wishes of the 48% who voted Leave ?
If 52% had voted Remain Cameron's deal would have kicked in. Cameron would have gone or be going by now. The new/next Tory leader would be a Leaver and the next referendum campaign would already have begun. I wouldn't be telling Leavers to shut up and accept the result uncritically and if I did you'd rightly laugh at me.
So if the 48% were Leave voters then their wishes wouldn't have to be accommodated.
But as the 48% are Remain voters their wishes do have to be accommodated.
In my scenario the Leave 48% would get a PM who was on their side and a quick acknowledgement another referendum was ' inevitable '. That sounds accommodating to me.
Its not accommodating at all.
The UK would be in for at least another decade of EverCloserUnion after which it might have been impossible to ever leave - even if there was a Leave PM in a Leave government and after another referendum.
We can already see how difficult it is to leave the EU and that would have got harder year by year.
Meanwhile the 48% would have got abuse not accommodation.
Now compare to how the 48% Remain are treated - their views are taken into consideration and if constructive might form part of the settlement.
And if the 48% Remain are still committed to the EU then they can support a party which advocates rejoining.
Instead of whining about the apparent deference being shown to the 48%, why don't you continue to make the positive case for leaving the EU since you surely believe it to be so persuasive?
We need a Sunrise Clause. The Government can invoke A50 when it's done X and laid notification before the HoC for 28 days with no negative vote. X being something reasonable that can unite nearly all the opposition and bring across soft Brexit Tories.
If X fails to get into the Bill in the Commons then the Lords should pass it without a vote at Second Reading but stick it into a Committee of the Full House.
Out of curiosity YS if the vote had been 52% Remain what would you be proposing now to accommodate the wishes of the 48% who voted Leave ?
If 52% had voted Remain Cameron's deal would have kicked in. Cameron would have gone or be going by now. The new/next Tory leader would be a Leaver and the next referendum campaign would already have begun. I wouldn't be telling Leavers to shut up and accept the result uncritically and if I did you'd rightly laugh at me.
So if the 48% were Leave voters then their wishes wouldn't have to be accommodated.
But as the 48% are Remain voters their wishes do have to be accommodated.
In my scenario the Leave 48% would get a PM who was on their side and a quick acknowledgement another referendum was ' inevitable '. That sounds accommodating to me.
Its not accommodating at all.
The UK would be in for at least another decade of EverCloserUnion after which it might have been impossible to ever leave - even if there was a Leave PM in a Leave government and after another referendum.
We can already see how difficult it is to leave the EU and that would have got harder year by year.
Meanwhile the 48% would have got abuse not accommodation.
Now compare to how the 48% Remain are treated - their views are taken into consideration and if constructive might form part of the settlement.
And if the 48% Remain are still committed to the EU then they can support a party which advocates rejoining.
But you know Cameron's deal exempted us from " Ever closer union of people's ". And you know A50 enshrines our right to leave and amending a treaty right is subject to national veto. And you know Cameron's Referendum Lock Act would trigger a referendum on any treaty that did give away our right to leave. You know all those things.
In addition I'm always amused at Eurosceptics Schroedinger's EU. Simultantously about to collapse and about to become a Federal Superstate.
So if the 48% were Leave voters then their wishes wouldn't have to be accommodated.
But as the 48% are Remain voters their wishes do have to be accommodated.
You need to understand that the Remainers are simply better and more important than everyone else.
We are by virtue of
1) Being better educated than Leavers
2) Because we are more likely to be econically active, we are net contributors to The Exchequer, unlike Leavers who suck on the teat of the taxpayers
3) Leavers are smelly, as evidenced by them not changing their undies as often as Remainers.
Out of curiosity were you ever 7/10 for Leave as you once said ?
{ I'm not being judgemental or critical at all, just curious }
I ask because almost all PBers went the way I would have predicted. The only exceptions being Philip Thompson and possibly DavidL who I thought would be Remain and AndyJS who I thought would probably be Leave.
I had you down as a certain Remainer and so was surprised when you leant Leave initially. So it was quite a relief when you became an ardent Remainer.
We need a Sunrise Clause. The Government can invoke A50 when it's done X and laid notification before the HoC for 28 days with no negative vote. X being something reasonable that can unite nearly all the opposition and bring across soft Brexit Tories.
If X fails to get into the Bill in the Commons then the Lords should pass it without a vote at Second Reading but stick it into a Committee of the Full House.
Out of curiosity YS if the vote had been 52% Remain what would you be proposing now to accommodate the wishes of the 48% who voted Leave ?
If 52% had voted Remain Cameron's deal would have kicked in. Cameron would have gone or be going by now. The new/next Tory leader would be a Leaver and the next referendum campaign would already have begun. I wouldn't be telling Leavers to shut up and accept the result uncritically and if I did you'd rightly laugh at me.
So if the 48% were Leave voters then their wishes wouldn't have to be accommodated.
But as the 48% are Remain voters their wishes do have to be accommodated.
In my scenario the Leave 48% would get a PM who was on their side and a quick acknowledgement another referendum was ' inevitable '. That sounds accommodating to me.
Its not accommodating at all.
The UK would be in for at least another decade of EverCloserUnion after which it might have been impossible to ever leave - even if there was a Leave PM in a Leave government and after another referendum.
We can already see how difficult it is to leave the EU and that would have got harder year by year.
Meanwhile the 48% would have got abuse not accommodation.
Now compare to how the 48% Remain are treated - their views are taken into consideration and if constructive might form part of the settlement.
And if the 48% Remain are still committed to the EU then they can support a party which advocates rejoining.
Also we aren't seeing how difficult it is to leave the EU. We're seeing how easy it is. Even a crushing defeat in the Supreme Court means the government has to pass a three clause bill. Those could have been inserted into the Referendum Act if MP's understood the Constitution.
What we're seeing is how difficult it is to #1 leave the EU successfully. #2 In a way consistent with the putrid and incoherent tissue of lies Leave told to win the vote. Those are very distinct things from leaving the EU in general.
We need a Sunrise Clause. The Government can invoke A50 when it's done X and laid notification before the HoC for 28 days with no negative vote. X being something reasonable that can unite nearly all the opposition and bring across soft Brexit Tories.
If X fails to get into the Bill in the Commons then the Lords should pass it without a vote at Second Reading but stick it into a Committee of the Full House.
Out of curiosity YS if the vote had been 52% Remain what would you be proposing now to accommodate the wishes of the 48% who voted Leave ?
If 52% had voted Remain Cameron's deal would have kicked in. Cameron would have gone or be going by now. The new/next Tory leader would be a Leaver and the next referendum campaign would already have begun. I wouldn't be telling Leavers to shut up and accept the result uncritically and if I did you'd rightly laugh at me.
So if the 48% were Leave voters then their wishes wouldn't have to be accommodated.
But as the 48% are Remain voters their wishes do have to be accommodated.
In my scenario the Leave 48% would get a PM who was on their side and a quick acknowledgement another referendum was ' inevitable '. That sounds accommodating to me.
Its not accommodating at all.
The UK would be in for at least another decade of EverCloserUnion after which it might have been impossible to ever leave - even if there was a Leave PM in a Leave government and after another referendum.
We can already see how difficult it is to leave the EU and that would have got harder year by year.
Meanwhile the 48% would have got abuse not accommodation.
Now compare to how the 48% Remain are treated - their views are taken into consideration and if constructive might form part of the settlement.
And if the 48% Remain are still committed to the EU then they can support a party which advocates rejoining.
Instead of whining about the apparent deference being shown to the 48%, why don't you continue to make the positive case for leaving the EU since you surely believe it to be so persuasive?
I think even though there is no practicle point to Brexit, like the Labour membership that voted for Corbyn, the British/Labour people voted for it so it should be delivered.
Comments
If she is well ahead, I expect Theresa May not to be interested in any debates. It may be her Cabinet Ministers (whoever they are by early 2020) will have to debate with their Labour counterparts (whoever they may be). If the election is much less clear and much more interesting (as I expect it to be), we'll see a lot more discussion about debates.
Glad I captained Sanchez today
The [Cuban] Communist regime issued guidelines for the official mourning period:
1. Cubans are forbidden from saying “Good morning” (“Buenos días”) to each other.
2. No alcohol is allowed.
3. Nightlife, the lifeblood of tourism, is shut down.
4. No loud music.
5. The neighborhood watchmen, Comités de la Revolución, are keeping track of any violations to the above rules. They also keep track who shows up (or doesn’t) to sign the book of condolences at the 1,000 designated locations across the island prison after standing in line for hours under the hot sun.
6. Mourners are also compelled to sign a statement of commitment to the Revolución.
Does Trump see the nuclear annihilation of Toledo as worth the independence of Tallinn ? Essentially, that's the question - will Trump adhere to Article 5 of the NATO Treaty? If he says he won't, NATO is finished and the UK will need to make alternative arrangements for its security and defence which would have to be a rapprochement with Moscow and a new European defence structure based on Russian, French and British nuclear weapons to deter any possible threat (China in the east or Iran in the south ?)
I don't think that's likely now (though I think it will happen one day). The Trump-Putin relationship is likely to be much warmer than the Obama-Putin relationship (wouldn't be difficult). Trump may well see Washington's future with Moscow framed in different ways other than Europe (China again) leaving western Europe in a bit of a backwater.
https://twitter.com/MichaelPDeacon/status/747000584226607104/photo/1
If X fails to get into the Bill in the Commons then the Lords should pass it without a vote at Second Reading but stick it into a Committee of the Full House.
And the costs of defending the inevitable court cases about psychological damage due to Toblerone changes?
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2016/dec/03/nigel-farage-willing-to-serve-donald-trump-us-uk?CMP=Share_AndroidApp_Copy_to_clipboard
Because he has such a great track record bringing great nations together...
' Tony Blair wrote to George W Bush eight months before the Iraq invasion to offer his unqualified backing for war well before UN weapons inspectors had completed their work, saying: “I will be with you, whatever.” '
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2016/jul/06/with-you-whatever-tony-blair-letters-george-w-bush-chilcot
Brown and Cameron had it towards Obama as well.
They'd have been even worse had Remain had won, they would have made Dave's life intolerable.
Perhaps if we paid in £350m a week and in return the French and Germans ran our health service that would be a deal that made sense to Brexiteers?
I do agree, however, that the leavers would still be arguing that it would do so given time, and that the UK needed to leave the EU.
Good evening, everyone.
But as the 48% are Remain voters their wishes do have to be accommodated.
https://en.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/quisling
Even if Mr Cameron had won, he would have had far too big a fright at the narrow victory. He would have kept his pledge to hold a referendum, and would have been departing anyway before his deal came unravelled.
1) Being better educated than Leavers
2) Because we are more likely to be econically active, we are net contributors to The Exchequer, unlike Leavers who suck on the teat of the taxpayers
3) Leavers are smelly, as evidenced by them not changing their undies as often as Remainers.
Silly boy. Very silly boy.
Origin
Second World War: from the name of Major Vidkun Quisling (1887–1945), the Norwegian army officer and diplomat who ruled Norway on behalf of the German occupying forces (1940–45).
REMAIN 48%
As it is the victory is looking entirely Pyrrhic as the Brexit case continues to unravel and the main protagonists blow themselves up.
I know Leavers don't like facts, but there you go.
What is the fucking point?
I'm not convinced together those factors couldn't have achieved a 1.9% swing.
Farage, on the other hand...
The UK would be in for at least another decade of EverCloserUnion after which it might have been impossible to ever leave - even if there was a Leave PM in a Leave government and after another referendum.
We can already see how difficult it is to leave the EU and that would have got harder year by year.
Meanwhile the 48% would have got abuse not accommodation.
Now compare to how the 48% Remain are treated - their views are taken into consideration and if constructive might form part of the settlement.
And if the 48% Remain are still committed to the EU then they can support a party which advocates rejoining.
Although they lost the vote that counts, winning a majority at Holyrood and 56 seats at Westminster may yet be victories they never recover from...
In addition I'm always amused at Eurosceptics Schroedinger's EU. Simultantously about to collapse and about to become a Federal Superstate.
{ I'm not being judgemental or critical at all, just curious }
I ask because almost all PBers went the way I would have predicted. The only exceptions being Philip Thompson and possibly DavidL who I thought would be Remain and AndyJS who I thought would probably be Leave.
I had you down as a certain Remainer and so was surprised when you leant Leave initially. So it was quite a relief when you became an ardent Remainer.
I feel I should start doing nighthawks again.
I loved putting in anniversaries of key moments in human history as I felt it helped educated PBers on historical matters.
What we're seeing is how difficult it is to #1 leave the EU successfully. #2 In a way consistent with the putrid and incoherent tissue of lies Leave told to win the vote. Those are very distinct things from leaving the EU in general.