This is the Scottish government's submission to the Supreme Court. If they win then we're in a Mexican standoff where Brexit cannot be delivered without destroying the UK.
It's impossible to guarantee anything in the negotiations. So would the Corbyn amendment have to contain a clause that somehow Article 50 was to be revoked if the "requirements" of the amendment are not achieved.
If not, how could the amendment actually come into play?
That raises the equally fascinating question of whether A50 can be revoked. It is of crucial importance to determine as to whether the 'second referendum' proposal would be viable or not. On this the treaty is silent.
It's impossible to guarantee anything in the negotiations. So would the Corbyn amendment have to contain a clause that somehow Article 50 was to be revoked if the "requirements" of the amendment are not achieved.
If not, how could the amendment actually come into play?
That raises the equally fascinating question of whether A50 can be revoked. It is of crucial importance to determine as to whether the 'second referendum' proposal would be viable or not. On this the treaty is silent.
Article 50 being revocable will be something for the CJEU to ultimately decide upon.
I kinda wish that would happen, it would cause all sorts of meltdowns.
Coming back to the Machiavellian nature of May's actions on the case, the only logically consistent conclusion I can see is that she wants to lose on all points and to have it ruled that the Scottish parliament needs to approve an A50 declaration.
In that case Theresa May would have to resign from her position as PM and leader of the Tory party.
Her position would be as untenable as Cameron's after the referendum.
Why
Speedy likes to get ahead of himself sometimes.
The man needs to slow down a little.
May will be OK if she is seen to have tried but been thwarted by events. Especially as her main rivals all have their fingerprints on it, except Osborne who I continue to see as irredeemably damaged goods.
I disagree.
Keeping the Referendum result open is already having a detrimental effect on the stability of the Tory party internally and politically.
If she wants to keep it open forever the Tory party will collapse in the next GE, Leave voters will simply vote for the party that will deliver Brexit regardless of the legal entanglements.
If the Tabloids blew a casket on the judges about Brexit they will really blow their casket on Theresa May.
So your argument is that leave voters will simply vote for the party to deliver Brexit ignoring the law.
Well it's a view but one that results in anarchy
When have the voters took into account intellectual arguments when voting?
Try to say to a voter that his vote doesn't matter because of the law and still demand his vote, he will simply stick two fingers up to you and vote for the party that will promise to change the law instead.
Remember I want to leave the EU but it is the influence of the highly organised remainers who are attempting to block the process including Gina Miller and Nicola Sturgeon.
Had Theresa May served A50 before all the legal appeals had taken place she would now be in a position where legal challenges were coming at her from all directions and if ruled against could have finished off any chance of leaving.
Many are frustrated by the process and there are many hurdles in the way but there is one person, and at present only one person, who can resolve the issues and that is Theresa May
Amazing that the Tories are the most favourable party!
Technically they are the least unfavourable party.
Not sure that net (un)favourability is too relevant in FPTP (would be very relevant with AV). If you get 40% or so, you win, even if the other 60% think you're the spawn of Satan.
It's impossible to guarantee anything in the negotiations. So would the Corbyn amendment have to contain a clause that somehow Article 50 was to be revoked if the "requirements" of the amendment are not achieved.
If not, how could the amendment actually come into play?
That raises the equally fascinating question of whether A50 can be revoked. It is of crucial importance to determine as to whether the 'second referendum' proposal would be viable or not. On this the treaty is silent.
Article 50 being revocable will be something for the CJEU to ultimately decide upon.
I kinda wish that would happen, it would cause all sorts of meltdowns.
Well it is essential to know, imo ... what with all this talk of second referendum and cliff edge we need to know where we stand for our own good.
Amazing that the Tories are the most favourable party!
Technically they are the least unfavourable party.
Not sure that net (un)favourability is too relevant in FPTP (would be very relevant with AV). If you get 40% or so, you win, even if the other 60% think you're the spawn of Satan.
I saw something on twitter a fortnight ago, which said, every presidential candidate/party leader with the best favourables in the US Presidential election/British general election in the last 70 years has won the election*
The Scotland mess can be solved by by Westminster amending the Devolution Acts to remove the need for Holyroods Legislative Consent for Brexit. The problem is the optics especially as the first Devolution Act was part of the settlement stemming from the 1997 Referendum. The second came of The Vow and the Smith Commission. You can argue only hardcore nationalists will care but the optics of repatriating any powers from Holyrood are awful. Meanwhile the very fact it needs to be done will flame Anglo nationalism. Whch is the SNP goal.
The other issue is Northern Ireland. My understanding is because the UUP will vote for the A50 trigger there's a majority in the Assembly for a LCM. But what if there was a Petition of Community Concern ? In which case there would be no majority in the Nationalist Caucus and it would fail ? Though Sinn Fein as the governing party seem not to want to do it. Can any lawyers shed any light on this ?
In Wales a LCM seems less problematic. Carwyn Jones has threaten to block a LCM but has since softened has s stance from Single Market Membership to Access. Which could mean anything.
Amazing that the Tories are the most favourable party!
Technically they are the least unfavourable party.
Not sure that net (un)favourability is too relevant in FPTP (would be very relevant with AV). If you get 40% or so, you win, even if the other 60% think you're the spawn of Satan.
With tactical voting and differential campaigning Britain has something approximating to jerry-rigged participatory AV, so a lot of the same considerations apply.
@RodD I plead guilty. That was a lot of Guardian and Observer articles in a row. I wouldn't normally do that but I thought they were all interesting in their way and relevant to the Brexit discussion we were having. But I will now cease and desist.
And I've never read the paper version in my life ... so YS and I are unwittingly maintaining a delicate balance in the Force.
I've just finished a 6 year stint as a Mail reader ( for my dead tree reading ). It's a fantastic product with some great writers and it's a much more nuiasanced read than lefties think. It's strand of decency and oikophillia could teach the Left a lot. I just ignored the truly hateful third.
But it's gone insane post Brexit and it's now beyond my tolerance levels. I make do with weekly New European for ness print now and pay £2.49 pcm to get the Guardian App Ad free. It's time to circle the wagons.
@RodD I plead guilty. That was a lot of Guardian and Observer articles in a row. I wouldn't normally do that but I thought they were all interesting in their way and relevant to the Brexit discussion we were having. But I will now cease and desist.
Maybe that's true for some of them.
But it doesn't matter which paper it might appear in; any article billed as "Top Tory..." can be instantly disregarded as unattributed (made up by journalist in the bath) comments or something by an MP so obscure that even his mother has to look him up on Wiki.
@RodD I plead guilty. That was a lot of Guardian and Observer articles in a row. I wouldn't normally do that but I thought they were all interesting in their way and relevant to the Brexit discussion we were having. But I will now cease and desist.
Maybe that's true for some of them.
But it doesn't matter which paper it might appear in; any article billed as "Top Tory..." can be instantly disregarded as unattributed (made up by journalist in the bath) comments or something by an MP so obscure that even his mother has to look him up on Wiki.
It was an article about another article in today's Observer written by serving Tory MP's. But pro Remain backbenchers. So the later half of your critique is fair.
And I've never read the paper version in my life ... so YS and I are unwittingly maintaining a delicate balance in the Force.
I've just finished a 6 year stint as a Mail reader ( for my dead tree reading ). It's a fantastic product with some great writers and it's a much more nuiasanced read than lefties think. It's strand of decency and oikophillia could teach the Left a lot. I just ignored the truly hateful third.
But it's gone insane post Brexit and it's now beyond my tolerance levels. I make do with weekly New European for ness print now and pay £2.49 pcm to get the Guardian App Ad free. It's time to circle the wagons.
My dead tree reading is also slightly more nuanced!
A (very) lefty lawyer friend and I meet most lunchtimes and share the crosswords. We find it more fun to compete over the same puzzles and two heads are more entertaining than one. But I have to buy the Telegraph and he brings the Guardian and Times as we don't want to be spotted in public purchasing the "enemy" ones.
@RodD I plead guilty. That was a lot of Guardian and Observer articles in a row. I wouldn't normally do that but I thought they were all interesting in their way and relevant to the Brexit discussion we were having. But I will now cease and desist.
Just teasing you, looked kinda funny with four of them in a row!
I cannot help but feel that much of the Tory "Remain" Camp are busy keeping their heads down for fear of enraging local associations and the rabid Press. The traditional Con link to Big Business must surely be coming under strain with the current anti-Single Market threat....the Tories traditionally rely on this source of business income and I cant see where that money will go (hence the odd voice to reassure the money men (and women)). Long term, surely the money will talk (and win the argument)
@RodD I plead guilty. That was a lot of Guardian and Observer articles in a row. I wouldn't normally do that but I thought they were all interesting in their way and relevant to the Brexit discussion we were having. But I will now cease and desist.
Maybe that's true for some of them.
But it doesn't matter which paper it might appear in; any article billed as "Top Tory..." can be instantly disregarded as unattributed (made up by journalist in the bath) comments or something by an MP so obscure that even his mother has to look him up on Wiki.
More likely it is a leak (or at least gossip) passed on by someone who wishes to remain anonymous, or at least retain plausible deniability: "sources close to the Foreign Secretary" is probably Boris, for instance. Where the unnamed politician has been up to no good, look for apparently pointless stories nearby (eg Boris opens constituency fete) -- this may be easier if you have all the papers. Of course, these days you can also just look at twitter or the web. You are probably right to discount articles that depend on rentaquote MPs (rarer now than in the past) but these will be named in the article.
Yours used to be a good rule of thumb for deciding whether to buy the Evening News or the Standard by reading their billboards. Film Star Dies would allude to a minor character actor since anyone famous would be named.
Stein has dropped the statewide recount in PA. Looks like nothing is stopping the Trump Train now!
It is a shame the recount will not go ahead. In the short term, it will not have overturned the result and might even have lent more legitimacy to Trump. For the longer term, it might have shone a light on America's ramshackle election arrangements. Perhaps that is why the Republicans are so keen to prevent recounts.
Stein has dropped the statewide recount in PA. Looks like nothing is stopping the Trump Train now!
It is a shame the recount will not go ahead. In the short term, it will not have overturned the result and might even have lent more legitimacy to Trump. For the longer term, it might have shone a light on America's ramshackle election arrangements. Perhaps that is why the Republicans are so keen to prevent recounts.
Oh I am sure the Republicans are keen on recounts when they have lost by a slim margin.
I can't see Nuttall wanting JRM as a defector. Isn't his explicit message that they are going after Labour voters. Farage at least was capable of presenting himself as a man of the people. Jacob Rees Mogg would blow that out of the water. I also doubt Nuttall wants more MPs in Parliament while he is not a member.
Btw on Nuttall, I was watching clips of him on various old episodes of QT etc, and I think he generally handles himself well, I watched an episode where he managed to argue his cases decently on issues other than the EU, Immigration, and Islam. He also gave a decent defence of his views on NHS (maintained commitment to state funded free at point of use etc) while saying it's not taboo to talk about addition of private funding. He's less 'charismatic' than Farage but also comes across as less of an arsehole. I think he could be bad for Labour if he can keep UKIP somewhat united under his direction. They need to transform into Red UKIP, and the problem is that the members and activists are mostly Blue UKIP ex-Tories.
Comments
I kinda wish that would happen, it would cause all sorts of meltdowns.
Had Theresa May served A50 before all the legal appeals had taken place she would now be in a position where legal challenges were coming at her from all directions and if ruled against could have finished off any chance of leaving.
Many are frustrated by the process and there are many hurdles in the way but there is one person, and at present only one person, who can resolve the issues and that is Theresa May
*The popular vote anyway.
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/dec/04/tories-brexit-article-50-secrecy-britain-chance-good-deal?CMP=Share_AndroidApp_Copy_to_clipboard
In Wales a LCM seems less problematic. Carwyn Jones has threaten to block a LCM but has since softened has s stance from Single Market Membership to Access. Which could mean anything.
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/dec/03/hard-brexit-lose-tories-next-election-warn-top-mps?CMP=Share_AndroidApp_Copy_to_clipboard
The
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/video/2016/dec/03/jeremy-corbyn-labour-will-propose-article-50-amendment-video?CMP=Share_AndroidApp_Copy_to_clipboard
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/dec/04/richmond-park-byelection-lib-dems-brexit-sleaford-earthquake?CMP=Share_AndroidApp_Copy_to_clipboard
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/dec/04/should-labour-campaign-to-curb-immigration?CMP=Share_AndroidApp_Copy_to_clipboard
But it's gone insane post Brexit and it's now beyond my tolerance levels. I make do with weekly New European for ness print now and pay £2.49 pcm to get the Guardian App Ad free. It's time to circle the wagons.
But it doesn't matter which paper it might appear in; any article billed as "Top Tory..." can be instantly disregarded as unattributed (made up by journalist in the bath) comments or something by an MP so obscure that even his mother has to look him up on Wiki.
A (very) lefty lawyer friend and I meet most lunchtimes and share the crosswords. We find it more fun to compete over the same puzzles and two heads are more entertaining than one. But I have to buy the Telegraph and he brings the Guardian and Times as we don't want to be spotted in public purchasing the "enemy" ones.
Sunderland is pretty wealthy compared to parts of Bulgaria. Lets tax them and have fiscal transfers to Sofia.......
Yours used to be a good rule of thumb for deciding whether to buy the Evening News or the Standard by reading their billboards. Film Star Dies would allude to a minor character actor since anyone famous would be named.
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/dec/03/brexit-chaos-change-political-map-britain