"Yes considering she got less than a 2000 vote lead rather disappointing for the remainians . The way some are rattling on you would have thought Onley got 65% of the vote"
Yep, to put into perspective, Lib Dems, Green & Labour combined got fewer votes than in 1983, 1997, 2001, or 2005.
The question is, when the by-election was being presented a clear referendum on Brexit, in a constituency that voted 70% for Remain, why did so many voters vote for Brexit Goldsmith?
Clearly this proves (I'm employing typical Remainian logic here!) that even in Remain constituencies there is now a huge amount of support for Brexit - Olney couldn't even reach 50% of the vote. This proves that national support for Brexit is stronger than ever. Great result for Brexit!
Had Goldsmith collapsed to 30% or 35%, this would be good for Remain. But over 45% in a 70% Remain constituency? Get real.
Many Tory remainers voted for Zac yesterday, not because they had changed their mind on EU membership, but because their personal loyalty to Zac and/or the Tory party outweighed their feelings on Brexit.
Many other Tory remainers voted for Sarah because they felt so strongly about it that they were prepared to break the habit of a lifetime and vote against their party. Zac is a Tory and had the total support of the local Tory party.
Even some Tory leavers voted for Sarah because of the dog's breakfast the Government is making with Brexit.
Only locals admittedly, but there are continued sign of a post Brexit realignment amongst the main parties. UKIP continues its double digit losses, Tories are hit and miss and the Lb Dems are back from the brink. – I find it odd that these recent results are not reflected in the national polls to any extent.
Absolute fiasco for the forces of Brexit and the hard-Right. With Trump and his chiwawa Farage, the hard-Right thought they had liberalism on the run. The Richmond result has smashed that notion into a cocked hat and shown up 'populism' as a hollow mockery. Thankfully for May, despite her early flirtations with the politics of the asylum, it's not too late to row back. The Tories shouldn't need to be told this, but if ever there was a warning sign for the folly of toying with the hard-Right this is it.
So who was this hard-right candidate who got thrashed in Richmond? The voters had a choice of 'nice' candidates.
No one ever votes for candidates. Let's face it, both the Tories and Goldsmith thought they had Richmond in the bag. The Tories would never have dreamt of attempting a stunt like this when Major was PM.
Do you honestly believe the Tories/Mrs May had any choice about this by election or that they really wanted it?
This by election was brought on us by Zac and Zac alone.
Absolute fiasco for the forces of Brexit and the hard-Right. With Trump and his chiwawa Farage, the hard-Right thought they had liberalism on the run. The Richmond result has smashed that notion into a cocked hat and shown up 'populism' as a hollow mockery. Thankfully for May, despite her early flirtations with the politics of the asylum, it's not too late to row back. The Tories shouldn't need to be told this, but if ever there was a warning sign for the folly of toying with the hard-Right this is it.
So who was this hard-right candidate who got thrashed in Richmond? The voters had a choice of 'nice' candidates.
No one ever votes for candidates. Let's face it, both the Tories and Goldsmith thought they had Richmond in the bag. The Tories would never have dreamt of attempting a stunt like this when Major was PM.
Do you honestly believe the Tories/Mrs May had any choice about this by election or that they really wanted it?
This by election was brought on us by Zac and Zac alone.
Did anyone back Zac and crack?
Well I'd have won a hundred quid more with Zac till about 5 minutes before the result. But no loss - in play betting on by-elections with Faisal Islam as yr only source is a nightmare lol.
"Greening up" somewhat pre event was as ever a sensible move.
The EU referendum has made for strange bedfellows, but in this case the Greens in this country are more interested in furthering leftism than green policies. The EU is the ultimate leftist organisation in their eyes.
A spectacularly blind comment. This is the Green Party's position on Europe:
We recognise the value of the original goal of the founders of the European Communities, who sought to remove the threat of another war between European states. This has been distorted by vested political and economic interests into a union dominated by economic interests, which lacks democratic control, and promotes the goals of multinational corporations which are interested in profit not people, and which runs counter to the professed core values of the Union.
"Ordinary working folk is not a synonym for close-minded nativists – as much as you and your ilk pretend it is."
Let's see
"The report from the Centre for Social Justice and Legatum Institute found that people in the “AB” class – the middle and upper classes - were the only group which had a majority voting to Remain at the June 23 referendum.
The majority of people in all the other income groups - described as C1, C2, D and E - all voted to leave, the report said. While 57 per cent of voters in the more affluent AB group voted to remain, the proportion in the other four groups was 36 per cent."
It said: "At every level of earning there is a direct correlation between household income and your likelihood to vote for leaving the EU — 62 per cent of those with income of less than £20,000 voted to leave, but that percentage falls in steady increments until, by an income of £60,000, that percentage was just 35 per cent."
Oh wait, yes it is.
The poor wanted out, because they gain nothing from hordes of immigrants, the rich wanted in, because they beenfit hugely.
The fact that this report calls ABs the "middle and upper classes" should immediately act as a warning.
A is socioeconomic group comprising professional workers (B is managerial workers) – it is not the landed gentry.
Landed gentry are A's though, to the extent that they fit in the model. So I don't think it's unreasonable to describe AB as upper and middle classes. Though unless you're talking about total income or wealth or the like, the size of the true upper class is so small as to be pretty much irrelevant to any stat.
By that token I am 'upper class' as my occupation is socioeconomic group A, despite the fact that I am state-educated and from a working-class background. The point I am making is that the groupings are based on occupation and income not the ancient cultural English idea of social class, which is a very different thing.
A waitress born of a Baron is an upper class D. A state-educated lawyer born of an coalminer could make a case that he is a working class A.
So traditional social class doesn't fit into the model, no matter how much Closed nativists like Dogbasket wish it were so.
"16. Imagine I’m doing something I’m not and then mock that imaginary thing with sarcasm as if it has anything to do with me.
17. Pretend you are too smart to be duped the way I have duped other people. Add sarcasm to make it sound smarter.
18. Signal that you are experiencing cognitive dissonance because my opinion makes you feel dumb and that violates your self-image as smart. Use the following structure to signal that you are in cognitive dissonance:
[Wow] + [sarcasm] and/or [Insult]
[OMG] + [sarcasm] and/or [Insult]
[LOL] + [sarcasm] and/or [Insult]
[Bruh] + [sarcasm] and/or [Insult]
[So…] + [misstatement of my opinion] + [sarcasm]
Importantly, do not include any rational argument or links to websites.
28. Use sarcasm instead of reason because you can’t tell the difference.
I will update the list as I see new ones"
It's far easier to believe that you lost a vote because your opponents are "closed minded nativists" "bigots" etc. , than to accept that it might be down to your campaign, or what you were trying to sell to them.
Somehow I don't think they'd like it if we called them Lord Haw-Haw Remainers.
The EU referendum has made for strange bedfellows, but in this case the Greens in this country are more interested in furthering leftism than green policies. The EU is the ultimate leftist organisation in their eyes.
A spectacularly blind comment. This is the Green Party's position on Europe:
We recognise the value of the original goal of the founders of the European Communities, who sought to remove the threat of another war between European states. This has been distorted by vested political and economic interests into a union dominated by economic interests, which lacks democratic control, and promotes the goals of multinational corporations which are interested in profit not people, and which runs counter to the professed core values of the Union.
So they stood down and endorsed the Lib Dems because?
Lucas has an idea about a progressive alliance. Pretty sure not all Greens are in favour of how far she is pushing this, but anyway Corbyn isn't interested.
Absolute fiasco for the forces of Brexit and the hard-Right. With Trump and his chiwawa Farage, the hard-Right thought they had liberalism on the run. The Richmond result has smashed that notion into a cocked hat and shown up 'populism' as a hollow mockery. Thankfully for May, despite her early flirtations with the politics of the asylum, it's not too late to row back. The Tories shouldn't need to be told this, but if ever there was a warning sign for the folly of toying with the hard-Right this is it.
So who was this hard-right candidate who got thrashed in Richmond? The voters had a choice of 'nice' candidates.
No one ever votes for candidates. Let's face it, both the Tories and Goldsmith thought they had Richmond in the bag. The Tories would never have dreamt of attempting a stunt like this when Major was PM.
Do you honestly believe the Tories/Mrs May had any choice about this by election or that they really wanted it?
This by election was brought on us by Zac and Zac alone.
Did anyone back Zac and crack?
Well I'd have won a hundred quid more with Zac till about 5 minutes before the result. But no loss - in play betting on by-elections with Faisal Islam as yr only source is a nightmare lol.
"Greening up" somewhat pre event was as ever a sensible move.
Absolute fiasco for the forces of Brexit and the hard-Right. With Trump and his chiwawa Farage, the hard-Right thought they had liberalism on the run. The Richmond result has smashed that notion into a cocked hat and shown up 'populism' as a hollow mockery. Thankfully for May, despite her early flirtations with the politics of the asylum, it's not too late to row back. The Tories shouldn't need to be told this, but if ever there was a warning sign for the folly of toying with the hard-Right this is it.
So who was this hard-right candidate who got thrashed in Richmond? The voters had a choice of 'nice' candidates.
No one ever votes for candidates. Let's face it, both the Tories and Goldsmith thought they had Richmond in the bag. The Tories would never have dreamt of attempting a stunt like this when Major was PM.
Do you honestly believe the Tories/Mrs May had any choice about this by election or that they really wanted it?
This by election was brought on us by Zac and Zac alone.
Did anyone back Zac and crack?
Well I'd have won a hundred quid more with Zac till about 5 minutes before the result. But no loss - in play betting on by-elections with Faisal Islam as yr only source is a nightmare lol.
"Greening up" somewhat pre event was as ever a sensible move.
I think eyeing those two piles of voting papers to see which was the highest was a big mistake given that were about 40 such piles scattered around the room out of sight.
The key for me was the very sudden movement on Betfair soon after the verification stage which could only be explained by inside knowledge.
Having bet around £1,000 in various combinations at different odds including Zac getting <2500 at 5/1 and Sarah getting <2500 at 7/2 I ended up at an exactly net zero.
If Sarah had got >2,500 I'd have lost £90 and been even happier. If Zac had won <2500 I'd have won £211 and felt a bit dirty.
Wow, the outgoing president of the Gambia took over in a coup aged 29. I'm just about to turn 30, I have clearly been wasting my time compared to that precocious youth.
Also, I haven't really been following the Gambian election, but as I understand it they sold out to one of the most virulent forms of Islamofascism in the form of Saudi cash. I am not sure if this is a rejection of that approach or just more of the same. (Barrow went to 'Muslim High School', but I am not sure exactly what that means in terms of how aggressively anti-gay, anti-women, etc. he is).
Also Adama Barrow was merely a security guard while studying, I expect lots of millionaires have their children work while studying, it doesn't make him salt-of-the-earth.
Wow, the outgoing president of the Gambia took over in a coup aged 29. I'm just about to turn 30, I have clearly been wasting my time compared to that precocious youth.
Absolute fiasco for the forces of Brexit and the hard-Right. With Trump and his chiwawa Farage, the hard-Right thought they had liberalism on the run. The Richmond result has smashed that notion into a cocked hat and shown up 'populism' as a hollow mockery. Thankfully for May, despite her early flirtations with the politics of the asylum, it's not too late to row back. The Tories shouldn't need to be told this, but if ever there was a warning sign for the folly of toying with the hard-Right this is it.
So who was this hard-right candidate who got thrashed in Richmond? The voters had a choice of 'nice' candidates.
No one ever votes for candidates. Let's face it, both the Tories and Goldsmith thought they had Richmond in the bag. The Tories would never have dreamt of attempting a stunt like this when Major was PM.
Do you honestly believe the Tories/Mrs May had any choice about this by election or that they really wanted it?
This by election was brought on us by Zac and Zac alone.
Did anyone back Zac and crack?
Well I'd have won a hundred quid more with Zac till about 5 minutes before the result. But no loss - in play betting on by-elections with Faisal Islam as yr only source is a nightmare lol.
"Greening up" somewhat pre event was as ever a sensible move.
I was covered on the LDs so made a tiny fiver but thought Zac would squeeze it and so lost out a decent profit on that.
The EU referendum has made for strange bedfellows, but in this case the Greens in this country are more interested in furthering leftism than green policies. The EU is the ultimate leftist organisation in their eyes.
A spectacularly blind comment. This is the Green Party's position on Europe:
We recognise the value of the original goal of the founders of the European Communities, who sought to remove the threat of another war between European states. This has been distorted by vested political and economic interests into a union dominated by economic interests, which lacks democratic control, and promotes the goals of multinational corporations which are interested in profit not people, and which runs counter to the professed core values of the Union.
So they stood down and endorsed the Lib Dems because?
Lucas has an idea about a progressive alliance. Pretty sure not all Greens are in favour of how far she is pushing this, but anyway Corbyn isn't interested.
The sage of Leavistan, John Harris, is keen on it, though I guess that would probably butter no parsnips with Corbyn.
Wow, the outgoing president of the Gambia took over in a coup aged 29. I'm just about to turn 30, I have clearly been wasting my time compared to that precocious youth.
It’s never too late to stage a coup, or go the Passport to Pimlico route for beginners…
Jack Tindel Every voter in #TheGambia gets a marble and places it in the drum of their favoured candidate. Total number of invalid votes last time: 2. https://t.co/uKgLUo8Quo
Jack Tindel Every voter in #TheGambia gets a marble and places it in the drum of their favoured candidate. Total number of invalid votes last time: 2. https://t.co/uKgLUo8Quo
The EU referendum has made for strange bedfellows, but in this case the Greens in this country are more interested in furthering leftism than green policies. The EU is the ultimate leftist organisation in their eyes.
A spectacularly blind comment. This is the Green Party's position on Europe:
We recognise the value of the original goal of the founders of the European Communities, who sought to remove the threat of another war between European states. This has been distorted by vested political and economic interests into a union dominated by economic interests, which lacks democratic control, and promotes the goals of multinational corporations which are interested in profit not people, and which runs counter to the professed core values of the Union.
So they stood down and endorsed the Lib Dems because?
Lucas has an idea about a progressive alliance. Pretty sure not all Greens are in favour of how far she is pushing this, but anyway Corbyn isn't interested.
The sage of Leavistan, John Harris, is keen on it, though I guess that would probably butter no parsnips with Corbyn.
Here we go again. This is the spin of the MSM. What Markit Economics actually said was:
"Increased volumes of construction output were underpinned by a solid upturn in new work during November. The latest rise in incoming new business was the strongest since March and contrasted with a sustained decline in sales through the summer. Some construction firms noted that their workloads had been boosted by a resumption of projects that were delayed after the Brexit vote."
The EU referendum has made for strange bedfellows, but in this case the Greens in this country are more interested in furthering leftism than green policies. The EU is the ultimate leftist organisation in their eyes.
A spectacularly blind comment. This is the Green Party's position on Europe:
We recognise the value of the original goal of the founders of the European Communities, who sought to remove the threat of another war between European states. This has been distorted by vested political and economic interests into a union dominated by economic interests, which lacks democratic control, and promotes the goals of multinational corporations which are interested in profit not people, and which runs counter to the professed core values of the Union.
So they stood down and endorsed the Lib Dems because?
Lucas has an idea about a progressive alliance. Pretty sure not all Greens are in favour of how far she is pushing this, but anyway Corbyn isn't interested.
The sage of Leavistan, John Harris, is keen on it, though I guess that would probably butter no parsnips with Corbyn.
Here we go again. This is the spin of the MSM. What Markit Economics actually said was:
"Increased volumes of construction output were underpinned by a solid upturn in new work during November. The latest rise in incoming new business was the strongest since March and contrasted with a sustained decline in sales through the summer. Some construction firms noted that their workloads had been boosted by a resumption of projects that were delayed after the Brexit vote."
The EU referendum has made for strange bedfellows, but in this case the Greens in this country are more interested in furthering leftism than green policies. The EU is the ultimate leftist organisation in their eyes.
A spectacularly blind comment. This is the Green Party's position on Europe:
We recognise the value of the original goal of the founders of the European Communities, who sought to remove the threat of another war between European states. This has been distorted by vested political and economic interests into a union dominated by economic interests, which lacks democratic control, and promotes the goals of multinational corporations which are interested in profit not people, and which runs counter to the professed core values of the Union.
So they stood down and endorsed the Lib Dems because?
Lucas has an idea about a progressive alliance. Pretty sure not all Greens are in favour of how far she is pushing this, but anyway Corbyn isn't interested.
The sage of Leavistan, John Harris, is keen on it, though I guess that would probably butter no parsnips with Corbyn.
The EU referendum has made for strange bedfellows, but in this case the Greens in this country are more interested in furthering leftism than green policies. The EU is the ultimate leftist organisation in their eyes.
A spectacularly blind comment. This is the Green Party's position on Europe:
We recognise the value of the original goal of the founders of the European Communities, who sought to remove the threat of another war between European states. This has been distorted by vested political and economic interests into a union dominated by economic interests, which lacks democratic control, and promotes the goals of multinational corporations which are interested in profit not people, and which runs counter to the professed core values of the Union.
Why people like me voted Leave.
I thought you voted Leave so you could entertain yourself by knowingly peddling bare-faced flat lies about NHS funding to people that relied on the service, then bragging about it on here?
Here we go again. This is the spin of the MSM. What Markit Economics actually said was:
"Increased volumes of construction output were underpinned by a solid upturn in new work during November. The latest rise in incoming new business was the strongest since March and contrasted with a sustained decline in sales through the summer. Some construction firms noted that their workloads had been boosted by a resumption of projects that were delayed after the Brexit vote."
Presumably this did not fit the narrative.
Positive news "despite Brexit", negative news "because Brexit", neutral news spun as negative and the "because Brexit". Rinse, repeat.
The EU referendum has made for strange bedfellows, but in this case the Greens in this country are more interested in furthering leftism than green policies. The EU is the ultimate leftist organisation in their eyes.
A spectacularly blind comment. This is the Green Party's position on Europe:
We recognise the value of the original goal of the founders of the European Communities, who sought to remove the threat of another war between European states. This has been distorted by vested political and economic interests into a union dominated by economic interests, which lacks democratic control, and promotes the goals of multinational corporations which are interested in profit not people, and which runs counter to the professed core values of the Union.
So they stood down and endorsed the Lib Dems because?
Lucas has an idea about a progressive alliance. Pretty sure not all Greens are in favour of how far she is pushing this, but anyway Corbyn isn't interested.
The EU referendum has made for strange bedfellows, but in this case the Greens in this country are more interested in furthering leftism than green policies. The EU is the ultimate leftist organisation in their eyes.
A spectacularly blind comment. This is the Green Party's position on Europe:
We recognise the value of the original goal of the founders of the European Communities, who sought to remove the threat of another war between European states. This has been distorted by vested political and economic interests into a union dominated by economic interests, which lacks democratic control, and promotes the goals of multinational corporations which are interested in profit not people, and which runs counter to the professed core values of the Union.
Why people like me voted Leave.
I thought you voted Leave so you could entertain yourself by knowingly peddling bare-faced flat lies about NHS funding to people that relied on the service, then bragging about it on here?
You've got it in for me today Mr Boobjob. It was a campaign full of BS on both sides (end of western civilisation, ffs), but I was working for a noble socialist cause.
Here we go again. This is the spin of the MSM. What Markit Economics actually said was:
"Increased volumes of construction output were underpinned by a solid upturn in new work during November. The latest rise in incoming new business was the strongest since March and contrasted with a sustained decline in sales through the summer. Some construction firms noted that their workloads had been boosted by a resumption of projects that were delayed after the Brexit vote."
Presumably this did not fit the narrative.
Positive news "despite Brexit", negative news "because Brexit", neutral news spun as negative and the "because Brexit". Rinse, repeat.
What is surprising is how resilient the Brexiteers have been despite this continuous onslaught for months now. Of course sundry idiots from the Commission and European Parliament have helped.
The EU referendum has made for strange bedfellows, but in this case the Greens in this country are more interested in furthering leftism than green policies. The EU is the ultimate leftist organisation in their eyes.
A spectacularly blind comment. This is the Green Party's position on Europe:
We recognise the value of the original goal of the founders of the European Communities, who sought to remove the threat of another war between European states. This has been distorted by vested political and economic interests into a union dominated by economic interests, which lacks democratic control, and promotes the goals of multinational corporations which are interested in profit not people, and which runs counter to the professed core values of the Union.
So they stood down and endorsed the Lib Dems because?
Lucas has an idea about a progressive alliance. Pretty sure not all Greens are in favour of how far she is pushing this, but anyway Corbyn isn't interested.
The sage of Leavistan, John Harris, is keen on it, though I guess that would probably butter no parsnips with Corbyn.
It's bullshit. What does such an 'alliance stand' *for*? What would it do if elected? Who would lead it?
Well, there is that whole Brexity thing going on. It would certainly have to be hammered into some discernible shape, and that hammering might destroy it before it got off the ground.
"Ordinary working folk is not a synonym for close-minded nativists – as much as you and your ilk pretend it is."
Let's see
"The report from the Centre for Social Justice and Legatum Institute found that people in the “AB” class – the middle and upper classes - were the only group which had a majority voting to Remain at the June 23 referendum.
The majority of people in all the other income groups - described as C1, C2, D and E - all voted to leave, the report said. While 57 per cent of voters in the more affluent AB group voted to remain, the proportion in the other four groups was 36 per cent."
It said: "At every level of earning there is a direct correlation between household income and your likelihood to vote for leaving the EU — 62 per cent of those with income of less than £20,000 voted to leave, but that percentage falls in steady increments until, by an income of £60,000, that percentage was just 35 per cent."
Oh wait, yes it is.
The poor wanted out, because they gain nothing from hordes of immigrants, the rich wanted in, because they beenfit hugely.
The fact that this report calls ABs the "middle and upper classes" should immediately act as a warning.
A is socioeconomic group comprising professional workers (B is managerial workers) – it is not the landed gentry.
Landed gentry are A's though, to the extent that they fit in the model. So I don't think it's unreasonable to describe AB as upper and middle classes. Though unless you're talking about total income or wealth or the like, the size of the true upper class is so small as to be pretty much irrelevant to any stat.
By that token I am 'upper class' as my occupation is socioeconomic group A, despite the fact that I am state-educated and from a working-class background. The point I am making is that the groupings are based on occupation and income not the ancient cultural English idea of social class, which is a very different thing.
A waitress born of a Baron is an upper class D. A state-educated lawyer born of an coalminer could make a case that he is a working class A.
So traditional social class doesn't fit into the model, no matter how much Closed nativists like Dogbasket wish it were so.
The A-E model is very crude and you have to expect that it'll throw up anomalies. It's a useful shorthand because job will usually have some relationship with income, with social culture and with lifestyle - but it's not guaranteed.
FWIW, background is of little consequence once someone is making their own way in the world: the daughter of a baron earning pocketmoney waitressing is upper-class; the daughter of a baron keeping her household going and receiving no support from her family is working-class.
Here we go again. This is the spin of the MSM. What Markit Economics actually said was:
"Increased volumes of construction output were underpinned by a solid upturn in new work during November. The latest rise in incoming new business was the strongest since March and contrasted with a sustained decline in sales through the summer. Some construction firms noted that their workloads had been boosted by a resumption of projects that were delayed after the Brexit vote."
Presumably this did not fit the narrative.
“Reports of lingering uncertainty around the progress of Brexit negotiations had business optimism divided, where only 45% of respondents expected a rise in activity next year – one of the lowest since the middle of 2013. And, as commentators warn about more inflationary impacts next year, the sector will be concerned that decisions from policymakers must ensure these effects are minimalised so that growth is maintained
The EU referendum has made for strange bedfellows, but in this case the Greens in this country are more interested in furthering leftism than green policies. The EU is the ultimate leftist organisation in their eyes.
A spectacularly blind comment. This is the Green Party's position on Europe:
We recognise the value of the original goal of the founders of the European Communities, who sought to remove the threat of another war between European states. This has been distorted by vested political and economic interests into a union dominated by economic interests, which lacks democratic control, and promotes the goals of multinational corporations which are interested in profit not people, and which runs counter to the professed core values of the Union.
So they stood down and endorsed the Lib Dems because?
Lucas has an idea about a progressive alliance. Pretty sure not all Greens are in favour of how far she is pushing this, but anyway Corbyn isn't interested.
Here we go again. This is the spin of the MSM. What Markit Economics actually said was:
"Increased volumes of construction output were underpinned by a solid upturn in new work during November. The latest rise in incoming new business was the strongest since March and contrasted with a sustained decline in sales through the summer. Some construction firms noted that their workloads had been boosted by a resumption of projects that were delayed after the Brexit vote."
Presumably this did not fit the narrative.
“Reports of lingering uncertainty around the progress of Brexit negotiations had business optimism divided, where only 45% of respondents expected a rise in activity next year – one of the lowest since the middle of 2013. And, as commentators warn about more inflationary impacts next year, the sector will be concerned that decisions from policymakers must ensure these effects are minimalised so that growth is maintained
That's a measure of sentiment, not activity. The measure of activity was broadly positive. Sentiment has been negative since the vote, but so far hasn't fed through into the real economy.
Here we go again. This is the spin of the MSM. What Markit Economics actually said was:
"Increased volumes of construction output were underpinned by a solid upturn in new work during November. The latest rise in incoming new business was the strongest since March and contrasted with a sustained decline in sales through the summer. Some construction firms noted that their workloads had been boosted by a resumption of projects that were delayed after the Brexit vote."
Presumably this did not fit the narrative.
Positive news "despite Brexit", negative news "because Brexit", neutral news spun as negative and the "because Brexit". Rinse, repeat.
What is surprising is how resilient the Brexiteers have been despite this continuous onslaught for months now. Of course sundry idiots from the Commission and European Parliament have helped.
The economy too, given how hard the continuity remain side is trying to talk it into a "we told you so" recession.
The EU referendum has made for strange bedfellows, but in this case the Greens in this country are more interested in furthering leftism than green policies. The EU is the ultimate leftist organisation in their eyes.
A spectacularly blind comment. This is the Green Party's position on Europe:
We recognise the value of the original goal of the founders of the European Communities, who sought to remove the threat of another war between European states. This has been distorted by vested political and economic interests into a union dominated by economic interests, which lacks democratic control, and promotes the goals of multinational corporations which are interested in profit not people, and which runs counter to the professed core values of the Union.
So they stood down and endorsed the Lib Dems because?
Lucas has an idea about a progressive alliance. Pretty sure not all Greens are in favour of how far she is pushing this, but anyway Corbyn isn't interested.
The sage of Leavistan, John Harris, is keen on it, though I guess that would probably butter no parsnips with Corbyn.
It's bullshit. What does such an 'alliance stand' *for*? What would it do if elected? Who would lead it?
Could just not put up candidates, a la unionists, in seats where the party is way off the pace. Let the LD compete in the rural SW, east Anglia, kent, etc, and Labour in the most of the midlands and parts of Wales.
Sentiment has been negative since the vote, but so far hasn't fed through into the real economy.
*cough*Sterling*cough*
That hasn't fed through either. Inflation dropped last month. If you understood how FX markets worked then you'd realise that they are mostly sentiment driven as well.
The EU referendum has made for strange bedfellows, but in this case the Greens in this country are more interested in furthering leftism than green policies. The EU is the ultimate leftist organisation in their eyes.
A spectacularly blind comment. This is the Green Party's position on Europe:
We recognise the value of the original goal of the founders of the European Communities, who sought to remove the threat of another war between European states. This has been distorted by vested political and economic interests into a union dominated by economic interests, which lacks democratic control, and promotes the goals of multinational corporations which are interested in profit not people, and which runs counter to the professed core values of the Union.
Why people like me voted Leave.
I thought you voted Leave so you could entertain yourself by knowingly peddling bare-faced flat lies about NHS funding to people that relied on the service, then bragging about it on here?
You've got it in for me today Mr Boobjob. It was a campaign full of BS on both sides (end of western civilisation, ffs), but I was working for a noble socialist cause.
Mr Rentool,where I live ,loads of working class labour supporters voted leave,it't the middle classes of the party that are out of touch with they base like jobabob.
“Reports of lingering uncertainty around the progress of Brexit negotiations had business optimism divided, where only 45% of respondents expected a rise in activity next year – one of the lowest since the middle of 2013. And, as commentators warn about more inflationary impacts next year, the sector will be concerned that decisions from policymakers must ensure these effects are minimalised so that growth is maintained
And:
"Job creation was maintained across the construction sector in November, while the latest survey also highlighted the fastest rise in subcontractor usage so far in 2016. A number of firms linked additional staff recruitment to robust confidence regarding the near-term demand outlook. That said, business confidence was still softer than seen during the first half of the year, with construction companies generally noting that Brexit-related uncertainty had the potential to weigh on business activity during 2017."
It is not an unmixed survey but new work is up, jobs are up, subcontracting (suggesting increased demand pressures) is up and there are signs that thing that were paused because of Brexit are now going forward after all. The description from Sky is grossly misleading in its negativity, not least because the inflationary pressures that were recorded were at a time when sterling was very low and it has since modestly recovered.
Well they still have an (in)direct presence here via the shares in BT.
They took mostly cash iirc so their holding is pretty small, DT holds 12% of BT.
Orange has 4%
Yes, not a huge figure. I expect they will begin to divest as soon as they can as well to reduce their debt levels.
There's rumours that they may make a comeback, a prominent MVNO wishes to become a full blown operator via a partnership with Orange.
By purchasing O2 UK? I've heard the Sky rumours plenty of times.
O2 aren't a MVNO, Sky doesn't half the balance sheet to buy O2.
The rumours on the MVNO are that Tesco wishes to establish a full network as they currently use O2.
Sky are an MVNO though. But a bit player atm and have been looking at quad play for a while now that BT and Vodafone are both expanding into it. Plus it's cheaper to buy O2 than to build a new network from zero. Despite their unfavourable spectrum settlement, 20% is better than 0%.
Tesco should sell their mobile division tbh. It's a distraction, Lewis supposedly put it up for sale when he arrived along with the rest of their non-core assets but there were no takers. If Tesco do build a network or buy O2 then it's just another stupid move IMO.
I'm currently working in the industry. All the big firms are trying to push their prices up. Generally blaming the £ post Credit
Of course they are. Most construction companies have been tendering at cost or even below cost for years now, desperate to get business and turnover for their overhead and hoping they can squeeze enough extras and variations out of the contracts to make a profit. Why on earth would they miss a chance like this?
But is that the main story of this survey? Not even close.
If you supported leave and live near Sleaford and N H ,get your're backsides into the area and help win for the leave candidate,don't leave it to chance.
We all know the lib dems will flood the area with people but will the lib dems use the remain cause in a leave area ?
@andrewbensonf1: BREAKING: World champion Nico Rosberg announces his retirement from Formula 1 with immediate effect
Wow. Didn't expect that.
One perhaps uncharitable thought: earlier in the season there were rumours Mercedes would have a No. 1 and No 2 driver next year, when the rules change and they might not be as competitive. I wonder if that's happening, and the decision's gone to Hammy?
Also, I wonder if it's going to cost him to get out of his contract? As world champ, he'll be under contract to do lots of PR for Mercedes and F1. Now he'll be less available.
ISTR there were problems when Mansell left F1 as world champion and went to Indy, although at least then Mansell didn't have a contract to remain at Williams into 1993.
I cannot see Mercedes or the F1 bosses being happy.
If you supported leave and live near Sleaford and N H ,get your're backsides into the area and help win for the leave candidate,don't leave it to chance.
We all know the lib dems will flood the area with people but will the lib dems use the remain cause in a leave area ?
It'll be interesting to see what the Lib Dem tactics are; Sleaford's nowhere near as likely a proposition as Richmond Park was.
I think the win's not possible for them. Perhaps try to squeeze the Labour vote instead?
The EU referendum has made for strange bedfellows, but in this case the Greens in this country are more interested in furthering leftism than green policies. The EU is the ultimate leftist organisation in their eyes.
A spectacularly blind comment. This is the Green Party's position on Europe:
We recognise the value of the original goal of the founders of the European Communities, who sought to remove the threat of another war between European states. This has been distorted by vested political and economic interests into a union dominated by economic interests, which lacks democratic control, and promotes the goals of multinational corporations which are interested in profit not people, and which runs counter to the professed core values of the Union.
So they stood down and endorsed the Lib Dems because?
Lucas has an idea about a progressive alliance. Pretty sure not all Greens are in favour of how far she is pushing this, but anyway Corbyn isn't interested.
The sage of Leavistan, John Harris, is keen on it, though I guess that would probably butter no parsnips with Corbyn.
It's bullshit. What does such an 'alliance stand' *for*? What would it do if elected? Who would lead it?
And the Labour party will cease to be in 200 odd constituencies, if not more. Then when they wake up and stand again, they will be as pointless as they are in Scotland. An alliance has no policies, no leader, no database, no funding. So, let's do it. We populists will love it.
Here we go again. This is the spin of the MSM. What Markit Economics actually said was:
"Increased volumes of construction output were underpinned by a solid upturn in new work during November. The latest rise in incoming new business was the strongest since March and contrasted with a sustained decline in sales through the summer. Some construction firms noted that their workloads had been boosted by a resumption of projects that were delayed after the Brexit vote."
Presumably this did not fit the narrative.
Positive news "despite Brexit", negative news "because Brexit", neutral news spun as negative and the "because Brexit". Rinse, repeat.
What is surprising is how resilient the Brexiteers have been despite this continuous onslaught for months now. Of course sundry idiots from the Commission and European Parliament have helped.
I don't find it surprising at all. You're talking about obsessive ideologues who've banged on about precious else for twenty years. And they are realising, if they hadn't done already, that no-one else will secure the safe passage of Brexit through the labyrinth of courts and government if they don't.
Wow, the outgoing president of the Gambia took over in a coup aged 29. I'm just about to turn 30, I have clearly been wasting my time compared to that precocious youth.
you could have been a F1 champion retired and been the President of Gambia!
You're talking about obsessive ideologues who've banged on about precious else for twenty years. And they are realising, if they hadn't done already, that no-one else will secure the safe passage of Brexit through the labyrinth of courts and government if they don't.
The charitable way to view this is fear and covetousness over hard-won gains. Perhaps these victories were so unexpected that their owners are terrified that the world will forcibly revert somehow and re-establish the dominance of interests that they believe conspires against them. But it is more likely a more ignoble combination of populism and panic. The forces that gave Brexit and Trump momentum coalesced around grievance rather than vision. There was no agenda, no genuinely thought-out project that the winners could soberly set about executing, just resentment. And the grievance narrative must be continued even in success because that is pretty much the whole energising principle.
Here we go again. This is the spin of the MSM. What Markit Economics actually said was:
"Increased volumes of construction output were underpinned by a solid upturn in new work during November. The latest rise in incoming new business was the strongest since March and contrasted with a sustained decline in sales through the summer. Some construction firms noted that their workloads had been boosted by a resumption of projects that were delayed after the Brexit vote."
Presumably this did not fit the narrative.
Positive news "despite Brexit", negative news "because Brexit", neutral news spun as negative and the "because Brexit". Rinse, repeat.
What is surprising is how resilient the Brexiteers have been despite this continuous onslaught for months now. Of course sundry idiots from the Commission and European Parliament have helped.
I don't find it surprising at all. You're talking about obsessive ideologues who've banged on about precious else for twenty years. And they are realising, if they hadn't done already, that no-one else will secure the safe passage of Brexit through the labyrinth of courts and government if they don't.
They are only a small percentage of those who voted leave, well less than half I would say. Most of those who voted leave have more interesting and normal lives and probably rarely thought about the EU other than as a background irritation. But I don't think they are appreciating being lectured.
They can hardly scream and rant. Read between the lines: "This is a brave decision by Nico ..." "For the team, this is an unexpected situation but also an exciting one."
Teams like Mercedes don't like unexpected situations. They are to be avoided.
Boy does Cameron have a lot to answer for. Only a handful of years ago only a small minority of the population was remotely interested in the EU or getting out of it (I forget the exact figures from the social surveys, maybe 20% tops?). Now everything is seen through the prism of Remain or Leave. The country is totally divided. Ten minutes watching QT last night makes clear how angry and irrational both sides are becoming over this - an issue that few really cared about until Cameron opened pandora's box.
Meanwhile, the number one issue facing Britain goes totally ignored. How on earth are we going to deal with an ageing population and the horrendous social care costs this is going to demand in next thirty years?
This is why in the end there can only be one outcome. If Europe isn't going away we will have to learn to embrace it or risk destroying the country.
More and more people will come to the conclusion, not only that we're better off in, but that we're better off never again thinking otherwise. This moment is Euroscepticism's last hurrah before it's carried off to its political grave.
Really? We joined in 1973, there was a referendum two years later with a large majority in favour of remaining in the EU. 43 years later that large majority in favour of the EU has been turned into a majority in favour of leaving the EU.
If 43 years experience of the EU leads to this result, why would you think that this is Euroscepticism's last hurrah?
Because the malcontents have been stoking resentment and myths for 40 years. Now is their moment in the sun and they are tasked with reversing decades of British policy with no-one else they can credibly blame.
If they don't have any better answers, or even any answers at all then their whole credo will be discredited. Not only will Brexit not be delivered, but in future anyone who suggests that the answer to our problems is to leave the EU will be dismissed as a crank.
Comments
Many other Tory remainers voted for Sarah because they felt so strongly about it that they were prepared to break the habit of a lifetime and vote against their party. Zac is a Tory and had the total support of the local Tory party.
Even some Tory leavers voted for Sarah because of the dog's breakfast the Government is making with Brexit.
Only locals admittedly, but there are continued sign of a post Brexit realignment amongst the main parties. UKIP continues its double digit losses, Tories are hit and miss and the Lb Dems are back from the brink. – I find it odd that these recent results are not reflected in the national polls to any extent.
Don't forget Raving Loony
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stuart_Hughes_(politician)
"Greening up" somewhat pre event was as ever a sensible move.
A waitress born of a Baron is an upper class D. A state-educated lawyer born of an coalminer could make a case that he is a working class A.
So traditional social class doesn't fit into the model, no matter how much Closed nativists like Dogbasket wish it were so.
I find the Scott Adams list of predictable insults the most entertaining. Anyone with insufficient braincells resorts to these non-arguments.
http://blog.dilbert.com/post/152117093416/how-to-insult-me-on-twitter
Such as
"16. Imagine I’m doing something I’m not and then mock that imaginary thing with sarcasm as if it has anything to do with me.
17. Pretend you are too smart to be duped the way I have duped other people. Add sarcasm to make it sound smarter.
18. Signal that you are experiencing cognitive dissonance because my opinion makes you feel dumb and that violates your self-image as smart. Use the following structure to signal that you are in cognitive dissonance:
[Wow] + [sarcasm] and/or [Insult]
[OMG] + [sarcasm] and/or [Insult]
[LOL] + [sarcasm] and/or [Insult]
[Bruh] + [sarcasm] and/or [Insult]
[So…] + [misstatement of my opinion] + [sarcasm]
Importantly, do not include any rational argument or links to websites.
28. Use sarcasm instead of reason because you can’t tell the difference.
I will update the list as I see new ones"
It's far easier to believe that you lost a vote because your opponents are "closed minded nativists" "bigots" etc. , than to accept that it might be down to your campaign, or what you were trying to sell to them.
Somehow I don't think they'd like it if we called them Lord Haw-Haw Remainers.
The Gambia is just a spit of a country with fewer than 2 million people. It has a GDP about equivalent to that of Richmond Park.
Maybe manager at Argos would have been a demotion.
The key for me was the very sudden movement on Betfair soon after the verification stage which could only be explained by inside knowledge.
Having bet around £1,000 in various combinations at different odds including Zac getting <2500 at 5/1 and Sarah getting <2500 at 7/2 I ended up at an exactly net zero.
If Sarah had got >2,500 I'd have lost £90 and been even happier. If Zac had won <2500 I'd have won £211 and felt a bit dirty.
Also Adama Barrow was merely a security guard while studying, I expect lots of millionaires have their children work while studying, it doesn't make him salt-of-the-earth.
No F1 until the end of March. I suppose I'm going to have to... do some work.
Anyway, time to be off.
Not enough Poles coming into the country to keep wages down?
https://twitter.com/johnharris1969/status/804589970543570944
This was just another case of needing to beware of the polls. The fundamentals overwhelming favoured the Lib Dems.
Every voter in #TheGambia gets a marble and places it in the drum of their favoured candidate. Total number of invalid votes last time: 2. https://t.co/uKgLUo8Quo
"Increased volumes of construction output were
underpinned by a solid upturn in new work during
November. The latest rise in incoming new
business was the strongest since March and
contrasted with a sustained decline in sales
through the summer. Some construction firms
noted that their workloads had been boosted by a
resumption of projects that were delayed after the
Brexit vote."
Presumably this did not fit the narrative.
It would certainly have to be hammered into some discernible shape, and that hammering might destroy it before it got off the ground.
FWIW, background is of little consequence once someone is making their own way in the world: the daughter of a baron earning pocketmoney waitressing is upper-class; the daughter of a baron keeping her household going and receiving no support from her family is working-class.
of Brexit negotiations had business optimism divided,
where only 45% of respondents expected a rise in
activity next year – one of the lowest since the
middle of 2013. And, as commentators warn about
more inflationary impacts next year, the sector will be
concerned that decisions from policymakers must
ensure these effects are minimalised so that growth
is maintained
But yes.
Pew
Who's vegetarian or vegan? 9% of Americans, 12% of 18-29 year olds, 15% of Liberal Democrats https://t.co/NbSh0vHdVL https://t.co/gKMFsgfsmw
The rumours on the MVNO are that Tesco wishes to establish a full network as they currently use O2.
"Job creation was maintained across the
construction sector in November, while the latest
survey also highlighted the fastest rise in subcontractor
usage so far in 2016. A number of firms
linked additional staff recruitment to robust
confidence regarding the near-term demand
outlook. That said, business confidence was still
softer than seen during the first half of the year,
with construction companies generally noting that
Brexit-related uncertainty had the potential to
weigh on business activity during 2017."
It is not an unmixed survey but new work is up, jobs are up, subcontracting (suggesting increased demand pressures) is up and there are signs that thing that were paused because of Brexit are now going forward after all. The description from Sky is grossly misleading in its negativity, not least because the inflationary pressures that were recorded were at a time when sterling was very low and it has since modestly recovered.
Tesco should sell their mobile division tbh. It's a distraction, Lewis supposedly put it up for sale when he arrived along with the rest of their non-core assets but there were no takers. If Tesco do build a network or buy O2 then it's just another stupid move IMO.
But is that the main story of this survey? Not even close.
Fancy a house at less than £50,000? Your options include Rotherham, North Lanarkshire, Accrington, Bishop Auckland.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/property/article-3979172/The-places-buy-UK-home-50k.html
We all know the lib dems will flood the area with people but will the lib dems use the remain cause in a leave area ?
One perhaps uncharitable thought: earlier in the season there were rumours Mercedes would have a No. 1 and No 2 driver next year, when the rules change and they might not be as competitive. I wonder if that's happening, and the decision's gone to Hammy?
Also, I wonder if it's going to cost him to get out of his contract? As world champ, he'll be under contract to do lots of PR for Mercedes and F1. Now he'll be less available.
ISTR there were problems when Mansell left F1 as world champion and went to Indy, although at least then Mansell didn't have a contract to remain at Williams into 1993.
I cannot see Mercedes or the F1 bosses being happy.
Rosberg announces his retirement from F1 racing as per F1 website
I think the win's not possible for them. Perhaps try to squeeze the Labour vote instead?
http://spitalfieldslife.com/2016/12/02/so-long-whitechapel-bell-foundry/
https://www.mercedesamgf1.com/en/mercedes-amg-f1/amg-f1-news/amg-f1-article/a-dream-fulfilled-nico-rosberg-ends-his-racing-career/
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/dec/02/brexit-trump-populists-sore-winners-play-victim
"This is a brave decision by Nico ..."
"For the team, this is an unexpected situation but also an exciting one."
Teams like Mercedes don't like unexpected situations. They are to be avoided.
If they don't have any better answers, or even any answers at all then their whole credo will be discredited. Not only will Brexit not be delivered, but in future anyone who suggests that the answer to our problems is to leave the EU will be dismissed as a crank.