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politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » The LD demand for a 2nd referendum could have the same potency

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  • Options
    welshowlwelshowl Posts: 4,460
    @david_ herdson

    Austria:

    Indeed. Though Austria had an army to keep it together and a Tudor style monarchy to exercise executive power. I doubt it would've lasted five minutes given modern democracy and no threat of force.

    Interestingly I think it had two proper nationalities: you were "Austrian" or "Hungarian" but not "Austro-Hungarian". They shared an Emperor/King, a foreign policy, an army, and a (squabbled over interminably) internal financial settlement, and that's about all. Sort of devo mega max for the 19th century.
  • Options

    MaxPB said:

    Interesting that NAFTA is now being talked about and not getting laughed out of the room for the UK. The idea is to kick Mexico out and invite the UK to join as soon as it leaves the EU. The A changes from America to Atlantic. One wonders whether Ireland could be coaxed into joining.

    Wouldn't that require IREXIT?
    Who's seriously talking about that though? Presumably it's only those with a Trump fetish.
  • Options
    Scott_P said:

    @AdamBienkov: Clive Lewis: "The government are in complete chaos. It's a complete cluster... er, clustermess"

    Whereas the Labour party is...
  • Options
    SandpitSandpit Posts: 49,941
    MaxPB said:

    Sandpit said:

    Not done anything in 4K myself, but 600Mbps would be a right pain to deal with in the field. Drone maker DJI has just released a 5.2k camera drone, and has had to develop their own memory cards to handle up to 4Gbps data rates for raw video or 100Mbps for H.265 (which all means nothing st all tonanyone else here, sorry).

    http://store.dji.com/product/inspire-2
    Launch demo - live using 1080P Lightbridge wireless communication
    youtube.com/watch?v=NHe976cRLkk

    Want one. Badly!

    I think most 4K camcorders come with custom data transfer solutions. I remember speaking to a movie executive about it at NAB because he was bitching about how expensive the Panavision data modules were and that there were no third party modules available at the time like there are for Sony and RED. Processing 100Mbps HEVC in real time must require some serious hardware or the video would come out looking like shit.

    In other news, I've just ordered a new Sony 65" ZD9 for my Zurich place. It's going to be glorious. I saw a live demo at their launch party and wanted to get one there and then, but needed to wait until I sorted out my living situation for Zurich.
    That TV looks very cool, but I think Mrs Sandpit would kill me if I came home with a screen half as big as our living room! Glad to hear you're getting everything sorted out for the move, good luck with it all :+1:
  • Options
    MTimTMTimT Posts: 7,034

    GeoffM said:

    Patrick said:

    Am slightly puzzled at the Brexiteer's opposition to a second referendum on the result of the Brexit terms - what if the Government find that the best deal they can get includes only marginal controls on free movement - wouldn't Leavers then want a second referendum?

    I absolutely, utterly and unequivocally want the UK to leave the EU. On good terms if we can, on not so good if that is all that is available. But I will never support the UK becoming part of a U.S.E. The 'Project' is not for us. (It's going to suck for Europe too and a large amount of grief is coming in the 'core' countries when politics, economics and national identity all finally collide).
    The Remain camp are trying to put legal or additional electoral hurdles in the way of actually leaving.
    So...As long as we trigger Article 50 soon (legally, after supreme court or a GE landslide - I don't care which) and are therefore irrevocably committed to an exit on terms to be agreed or WTO rules as fallback - then I'm happy for any further votes or referendums to take place. I share the nagging fear of many that the establishment will indeed find a way to thwart the Leave decision.
    I fully accept that there are some Leavers like yourself who would Leave no matter how damaging the final Leave terms are to the UK economy and how much financial harm would be done to British people but I suspect that such luddism is not a majority view even in the 52% wgo voted Leave back in June .
    Leaving may be initially uncomfortable but a few years down the line the prospects are incredible. Our potential as a country will be unrestrained by the dead hand of the EU.

    You are just projecting your own inadequacies on to the aspirations and vision of those better than yourself.

    And you are projecting blind faith in a return to UKs Victorian era supremacy . Wake up we are now in the 21st century . It is a different world .
    A different world where small and nimble is favoured over big and inert. Think not 150 years ago, but 60 million.
  • Options
    SimonStClareSimonStClare Posts: 7,976
    edited November 2016

    welshowl said:

    MaxPB said:

    ... and legislation should be introduced - and only in - the parliament or the Council of Ministers (and then require the assent of the other).

    Sorry if I'm being naive, bit isn't most of the legislation introduced by the EU along the lines of mandating standard A such that widgets of type B and C will work together throughout the EU? Technical legislation of this type will always need to be developed by (unelected) technical committees, whether under the auspices of the European Commission or elsewhere. It's hard to see how either the European Parliament or the Council of Ministers could originate such legislation; their role is surely necessarily that of scrutinising and either rubber-stamping or rejecting legislation proposed by technical committees.
    Widget standardisation does not need to be enforced by an army....
    And given that all EU nations are signed up to the widget standards bodies the need for the EU isn't exactly clear anymore. With the WTO taking over more and more standards setting and NTB elimination for goods, what exactly do we need the EU to do for EU trade that the WTO won't do?
    If you believe this, why the urgency to leave the EU? It will just fade away into irrelevance and become easier and easier to leave as the decades go by.
    The Titanic became notably easier to leave as time went on. Indeed I think Mr Joughin a cook (well fuelled by booze mind) just stepped off the end of it and into the North Atlantic. Easy. Personally I think having left a good while before and viewing from a safer distance in a lifeboat was a better option.
    [snip]

    Even if you believe the doom-sayers, it would be inconsistent with this countries foreign policy over hundreds of years to step back and allow a single power that you believe to be unstable to develop on our doorstep. Believing it to be misconceived is actually a reason why we must be part of it.
    I thought British policy on unstable foreign powers that got too big for their boots was to invade or bomb the crap out of them, not join them. Perhaps we should have a referendum on which option the people prefer?
  • Options

    Believing it to be misconceived is actually a reason why we must be part of it.

    Joseph Heller himself would be proud of that.
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    MaxPB said:

    Sean_F said:

    Am slightly puzzled at the Brexiteer's opposition to a second referendum on the result of the Brexit terms - what if the Government find that the best deal they can get includes only marginal controls on free movement - wouldn't Leavers then want a second referendum?

    Very good point. However, I suspect that whatever the May government agrees will be met with noisy accusations of betrayal. It's gone beyond mere EU membership now - the forces of Leave want to foist their own version of Trumpism upon the United Kingdom. That's their next project.
    The Coming of the Fourth Reich.
    Fifth, surely Trumpland is the fourth.
    If the Holy Roman Empire was the First Reich, what does that make the original Roman Empire?
    I thought HRE was the second and Roman Empire was the first?

    Edit looking at it I'm wrong. I suppose the HRE was German more than Roman and the original Roman Empire wasn't German so is ignored.
    That would be my take too but still, it tried to appropriate Rome's heritage long after the HRE ceased to be 'Roman' in any meaningful sense.

    Then again, it wasn't just the Axis which had trouble with numbering: there's no good reason to call World War II the second world war.
  • Options
    williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 48,146

    welshowl said:

    MaxPB said:

    ... and legislation should be introduced - and only in - the parliament or the Council of Ministers (and then require the assent of the other).

    Sorry if I'm being naive, bit isn't most of the legislation introduced by the EU along the lines of mandating standard A such that widgets of type B and C will work together throughout the EU? Technical legislation of this type will always need to be developed by (unelected) technical committees, whether under the auspices of the European Commission or elsewhere. It's hard to see how either the European Parliament or the Council of Ministers could originate such legislation; their role is surely necessarily that of scrutinising and either rubber-stamping or rejecting legislation proposed by technical committees.
    Widget standardisation does not need to be enforced by an army....
    And given that all EU nations are signed up to the widget standards bodies the need for the EU isn't exactly clear anymore. With the WTO taking over more and more standards setting and NTB elimination for goods, what exactly do we need the EU to do for EU trade that the WTO won't do?
    If you believe this, why the urgency to leave the EU? It will just fade away into irrelevance and become easier and easier to leave as the decades go by.
    The Titanic became notably easier to leave as time went on. Indeed I think Mr Joughin a cook (well fuelled by booze mind) just stepped off the end of it and into the North Atlantic. Easy. Personally I think having left a good while before and viewing from a safer distance in a lifeboat was a better option.
    [snip]

    Even if you believe the doom-sayers, it would be inconsistent with this countries foreign policy over hundreds of years to step back and allow a single power that you believe to be unstable to develop on our doorstep. Believing it to be misconceived is actually a reason why we must be part of it.
    I thought British policy on unstable foreign powers that got too big for their boots was to invade or bomb the crap out of them, not join them. Perhaps we should have a referendum on which option the people prefer?
    Germany is a foreign power. France is a foreign power. The EU is not (yet) a foreign power.
  • Options
    MTimTMTimT Posts: 7,034

    Scott_P said:
    She was criticised for that for challenging the independence of the Bank of England. So what do you want? Her to continue to challenge it or not to?

    Or are you just looking to whine either way?

    It's Scott_P, you don't have to ask that question. He is Marvin.
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    MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 37,631
    Sandpit said:

    MaxPB said:

    Sandpit said:

    Not done anything in 4K myself, but 600Mbps would be a right pain to deal with in the field. Drone maker DJI has just released a 5.2k camera drone, and has had to develop their own memory cards to handle up to 4Gbps data rates for raw video or 100Mbps for H.265 (which all means nothing st all tonanyone else here, sorry).

    http://store.dji.com/product/inspire-2
    Launch demo - live using 1080P Lightbridge wireless communication
    youtube.com/watch?v=NHe976cRLkk

    Want one. Badly!

    I think most 4K camcorders come with custom data transfer solutions. I remember speaking to a movie executive about it at NAB because he was bitching about how expensive the Panavision data modules were and that there were no third party modules available at the time like there are for Sony and RED. Processing 100Mbps HEVC in real time must require some serious hardware or the video would come out looking like shit.

    In other news, I've just ordered a new Sony 65" ZD9 for my Zurich place. It's going to be glorious. I saw a live demo at their launch party and wanted to get one there and then, but needed to wait until I sorted out my living situation for Zurich.
    That TV looks very cool, but I think Mrs Sandpit would kill me if I came home with a screen half as big as our living room! Glad to hear you're getting everything sorted out for the move, good luck with it all :+1:
    I have to say I haven't broken the news to Miss Max about the TV. I get the keys to the house at the beginning of December and have a month to get it in liveable conditions, apparently the previous owner was somewhat negligent, but it's good because I got a very good deal on it and have money left over from the sale of my Shepherds Bush place.
  • Options
    Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    MTimT said:

    It's Scott_P, you don't have to ask that question. He is Marvin.

    I love you too, Tim
  • Options
    welshowlwelshowl Posts: 4,460

    MaxPB said:

    Interesting that NAFTA is now being talked about and not getting laughed out of the room for the UK. The idea is to kick Mexico out and invite the UK to join as soon as it leaves the EU. The A changes from America to Atlantic. One wonders whether Ireland could be coaxed into joining.

    Wouldn't that require IREXIT?
    It would, and if I were the Irish I'd be keeping my options open even if it's probably heresy at present to think it. If (big big if - through Pres Donald J Trump at least makes it thinkable whereas it was a non starter with Pres H Clinton) Nafta plus UK or some such like arrangement happened, Ireland will need a long think. They may choose to stay - fine, good luck to them - but the gravity of the Atlantic would be big. Really, they probably should've had a long long think about the Euro before they plunged in without us joining, as they are always going to be sandwiched between Europe, us, and N America in trade terms and it's a hell of a balancing act they've got, which could yet get trickier still.
  • Options
    MTimT said:

    GeoffM said:

    Patrick said:

    Am slightly puzzled at the Brexiteer's opposition to a second referendum on the result of the Brexit terms - what if the Government find that the best deal they can get includes only marginal controls on free movement - wouldn't Leavers then want a second referendum?

    I absolutely, utterly and unequivocally want the UK to leave the EU. On good terms if we can, on not so good if that is all that is available. But I will never support the UK becoming part of a U.S.E. The 'Project' is not for us. (It's going to suck for Europe too and a large amount of grief is coming in the 'core' countries when politics, economics and national identity all finally collide).
    The Remain camp are trying to put legal or additional electoral hurdles in the way of actually leaving.
    So...As long as we trigger Article 50 soon (legally, after supreme court or a GE landslide - I don't care which) and are therefore irrevocably committed to an exit on terms to be agreed or WTO rules as fallback - then I'm happy for any further votes or referendums to take place. I share the nagging fear of many that the establishment will indeed find a way to thwart the Leave decision.
    I fully accept that there are some Leavers like yourself who would Leave no matter how damaging the final Leave terms are to the UK economy and how much financial harm would be done to British people but I suspect that such luddism is not a majority view even in the 52% wgo voted Leave back in June .
    Leaving may be initially uncomfortable but a few years down the line the prospects are incredible. Our potential as a country will be unrestrained by the dead hand of the EU.

    You are just projecting your own inadequacies on to the aspirations and vision of those better than yourself.

    And you are projecting blind faith in a return to UKs Victorian era supremacy . Wake up we are now in the 21st century . It is a different world .
    A different world where small and nimble is favoured over big and inert. Think not 150 years ago, but 60 million.
    It is true that the dinosaurs died out. They were good for 150 million years though.
  • Options
    Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    Shadsy's Christmas bonus appeal gets earlier every year...

    https://twitter.com/ladpolitics/status/799575849297031168
  • Options
    Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    So this budget that is going to help the Just About Managing...

    @SkyNewsBreak: The Government has announced funding for the Royal Family will almost double for the next ten years to fund renovation of Buckingham Palace
  • Options
    FloaterFloater Posts: 14,195
    Pulpstar said:

    SKY - Japan PM's 'great confidence' in Trump's diplomacy debut

    Donald Trump has held talks with Japan's Prime Minister Shinzo Abe - the US President-elect's first face-to-face meeting with a foreign leader.

    http://news.sky.com/story/japanese-pm-shinzo-abe-first-foreign-leader-to-meet-donald-trump-10660158

    I'm no expert in Japanese politics - but as I understand it there are significant movements within the parties, and including Abe, for Japan to become remilitarized and militarily self sufficient. Obviously their constitution currently prevents it, but perhaps Abe secretly preferred Trump to win as they are somewhat aligned in their thinking on Japan's military role. Trump could be the catalyst needed to convince other Japanese that the time has come to remilitarize.
    Good. Both Japan and Germany need to get over their collective WW2 neuroses.
    Agreed
  • Options
    O/T French election

    First poll after Macron entered officially his candidacy
    IFOP for Sud Radio

    Three scenarios
    Le Pen 30 Juppe 26 Macron 14 Melenchon 13 Hollande 9 all others 8
    Le Pen 28 Sarkozy 17.5 Macron 16 Melenchon 13 Hollande 9. Bayrou 8.5 all others 8
    Le Pen 29 Fillon 20 Macron 15 Melenchon 13 Hollande 10 Bayrou 5.5 all others 7.5

    Macron starts his campaign in a good third position but is clearly behind the Republicain candidate. If it's Sarkozy he has a chance as Bayrou plays his spoiler role perfectly (less so with Fillon).
    Juppe has been weakened by the primary and Le Pen has a clear lead.


  • Options

    MTimT said:

    GeoffM said:

    Patrick said:

    Am slightly puzzled at the Brexiteer's opposition to a second referendum on the result of the Brexit terms - what if the Government find that the best deal they can get includes only marginal controls on free movement - wouldn't Leavers then want a second referendum?

    I absolutely, utterly and unequivocally want the UK to leave the EU. On good terms if we can, on not so good if that is all that is available. But I will never support the UK becoming part of a U.S.E. The 'Project' is not for us. (It's going to suck for Europe too and a large amount of grief is coming in the 'core' countries when politics, economics and national identity all finally collide).
    The Remain camp are trying to put legal or additional electoral hurdles in the way of actually leaving.
    So...As long as we trigger Article 50 soon (legally, after supreme court or a GE landslide - I don't care which) and are therefore irrevocably committed to an exit on terms to be agreed or WTO rules as fallback - then I'm happy for any further votes or referendums to take place. I share the nagging fear of many that the establishment will indeed find a way to thwart the Leave decision.
    I fully accept that there are some Leavers like yourself who would Leave no matter how damaging the final Leave terms are to the UK economy and how much financial harm would be done to British people but I suspect that such luddism is not a majority view even in the 52% wgo voted Leave back in June .
    Leaving may be initially uncomfortable but a few years down the line the prospects are incredible. Our potential as a country will be unrestrained by the dead hand of the EU.

    You are just projecting your own inadequacies on to the aspirations and vision of those better than yourself.

    And you are projecting blind faith in a return to UKs Victorian era supremacy . Wake up we are now in the 21st century . It is a different world .
    A different world where small and nimble is favoured over big and inert. Think not 150 years ago, but 60 million.
    It is true that the dinosaurs died out. They were good for 150 million years though.
    It's also not really true that they died out. Their descendants, birds, are still doing fine!
  • Options
    Scott_P said:

    So this budget that is going to help the Just About Managing...

    @SkyNewsBreak: The Government has announced funding for the Royal Family will almost double for the next ten years to fund renovation of Buckingham Palace

    Sweet. Still waving your little pom poms for Georgie Boy.
  • Options
    SandpitSandpit Posts: 49,941
    MaxPB said:

    Sandpit said:

    MaxPB said:

    Sandpit said:

    Not done anything in 4K myself, but 600Mbps would be a right pain to deal with in the field. Drone maker DJI has just released a 5.2k camera drone, and has had to develop their own memory cards to handle up to 4Gbps data rates for raw video or 100Mbps for H.265 (which all means nothing st all tonanyone else here, sorry).

    http://store.dji.com/product/inspire-2
    Launch demo - live using 1080P Lightbridge wireless communication
    youtube.com/watch?v=NHe976cRLkk

    Want one. Badly!

    I think most 4K camcorders come with custom data transfer solutions. I remember speaking to a movie executive about it at NAB because he was bitching about how expensive the Panavision data modules were and that there were no third party modules available at the time like there are for Sony and RED. Processing 100Mbps HEVC in real time must require some serious hardware or the video would come out looking like shit.

    In other news, I've just ordered a new Sony 65" ZD9 for my Zurich place. It's going to be glorious. I saw a live demo at their launch party and wanted to get one there and then, but needed to wait until I sorted out my living situation for Zurich.
    That TV looks very cool, but I think Mrs Sandpit would kill me if I came home with a screen half as big as our living room! Glad to hear you're getting everything sorted out for the move, good luck with it all :+1:
    I have to say I haven't broken the news to Miss Max about the TV. I get the keys to the house at the beginning of December and have a month to get it in liveable conditions, apparently the previous owner was somewhat negligent, but it's good because I got a very good deal on it and have money left over from the sale of my Shepherds Bush place.
    Ha, make it a surprise for her when she sees the place! Hint: if you're redecorating, don't forget the cable ducts for the surround sound system ;)
  • Options
    old_labourold_labour Posts: 3,238
    A nice Guardian piece about English wine production.

    See, you do not need that foreign muck.

    https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/ng-interactive/2016/nov/18/grape-britain-english-wine-production-bolney-a-photo-essay
  • Options
    williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 48,146



    Three scenarios
    Le Pen 30 Juppe 26 Macron 14 Melenchon 13 Hollande 9 all others 8
    Le Pen 28 Sarkozy 17.5 Macron 16 Melenchon 13 Hollande 9. Bayrou 8.5 all others 8
    Le Pen 29 Fillon 20 Macron 15 Melenchon 13 Hollande 10 Bayrou 5.5 all others 7.5

    Macron starts his campaign in a good third position but is clearly behind the Republicain candidate. If it's Sarkozy he has a chance as Bayrou plays his spoiler role perfectly (less so with Fillon).
    Juppe has been weakened by the primary and Le Pen has a clear lead.

    It's interesting that Fillon gets a good chunk of Bayrou's voters even if his is in the running. Could Bayrou possibly drop out for Fillon too? If that could be negotiated before the Republicains primary it would be a big boost for Fillon.
  • Options
    justin124justin124 Posts: 11,527

    On Topic.
    If you compare polling now with 5 years ago, when Labour already had a solid lead, its hard to see Labour getting more than 20% in a General Election. For swing voters, there will be a new question that they havent faced since 1982 : Tories or Liberals ? Labour will be reduced to fringe status.
    All that is before we factor Brexit in.

    On the other hand,Labour was 10/11 points behind at the same stage of the 1987 Parliament and went on to win 35.2% of the vote in 1992.
  • Options
    old_labourold_labour Posts: 3,238
    Sky News

    Trump to nominate Jeff Sessions as Attorney General.
  • Options
    MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 37,631
    Sandpit said:

    MaxPB said:

    Sandpit said:

    MaxPB said:

    Sandpit said:

    Not done anything in 4K myself, but 600Mbps would be a right pain to deal with in the field. Drone maker DJI has just released a 5.2k camera drone, and has had to develop their own memory cards to handle up to 4Gbps data rates for raw video or 100Mbps for H.265 (which all means nothing st all tonanyone else here, sorry).

    http://store.dji.com/product/inspire-2
    Launch demo - live using 1080P Lightbridge wireless communication
    youtube.com/watch?v=NHe976cRLkk

    Want one. Badly!

    I think most 4K camcorders come with custom data transfer solutions. I remember speaking to a movie executive about it at NAB because he was bitching about how expensive the Panavision data modules were and that there were no third party modules available at the time like there are for Sony and RED. Processing 100Mbps HEVC in real time must require some serious hardware or the video would come out looking like shit.

    In other news, I've just ordered a new Sony 65" ZD9 for my Zurich place. It's going to be glorious. I saw a live demo at their launch party and wanted to get one there and then, but needed to wait until I sorted out my living situation for Zurich.
    That TV looks very cool, but I think Mrs Sandpit would kill me if I came home with a screen half as big as our living room! Glad to hear you're getting everything sorted out for the move, good luck with it all :+1:
    I have to say I haven't broken the news to Miss Max about the TV. I get the keys to the house at the beginning of December and have a month to get it in liveable conditions, apparently the previous owner was somewhat negligent, but it's good because I got a very good deal on it and have money left over from the sale of my Shepherds Bush place.
    Ha, make it a surprise for her when she sees the place! Hint: if you're redecorating, don't forget the cable ducts for the surround sound system ;)
    Already got a B&W 7.2 system planned! It's going to be 65" and 1.3kW of awesome.
  • Options
    Constituency Bill debate is quite enjoyable for geeks. Am greatly enjoying Oliver Letwin's speech. He's brought in Magna Carta and 1688.
  • Options
    dr_spyndr_spyn Posts: 11,291
    edited November 2016
    https://twitter.com/SkyNewsBreak/status/799586113337880576

    Welsh voted out, Scots voted in. Could be a recipe for success.

  • Options
    williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 48,146
    dr_spyn said:

    https://twitter.com/SkyNewsBreak/status/799586113337880576

    Welsh voted out, Scots voted in. Could be a recipe for success.

    Scotland has a parliament, Wales doesn't.
  • Options

    Sky News

    Trump to nominate Jeff Sessions as Attorney General.

    Is Loretta Lynch the first victim of Trump’s success?
  • Options

    O/T French election

    First poll after Macron entered officially his candidacy
    IFOP for Sud Radio

    Three scenarios
    Le Pen 30 Juppe 26 Macron 14 Melenchon 13 Hollande 9 all others 8
    Le Pen 28 Sarkozy 17.5 Macron 16 Melenchon 13 Hollande 9. Bayrou 8.5 all others 8
    Le Pen 29 Fillon 20 Macron 15 Melenchon 13 Hollande 10 Bayrou 5.5 all others 7.5

    Macron starts his campaign in a good third position but is clearly behind the Republicain candidate. If it's Sarkozy he has a chance as Bayrou plays his spoiler role perfectly (less so with Fillon).
    Juppe has been weakened by the primary and Le Pen has a clear lead.


    What should be the eyeball-popping figure there is the Socialist on 9-10%, behind a Communist. How the mighty have fallen.
  • Options
    PlatoSaidPlatoSaid Posts: 10,383
    Sighs

    Aidan Kerr
    A British student union has outlawed newspapers whose editorials it disagrees with to combat 'fascism'. https://t.co/YNPf0sYcFj
  • Options



    Three scenarios
    Le Pen 30 Juppe 26 Macron 14 Melenchon 13 Hollande 9 all others 8
    Le Pen 28 Sarkozy 17.5 Macron 16 Melenchon 13 Hollande 9. Bayrou 8.5 all others 8
    Le Pen 29 Fillon 20 Macron 15 Melenchon 13 Hollande 10 Bayrou 5.5 all others 7.5

    Macron starts his campaign in a good third position but is clearly behind the Republicain candidate. If it's Sarkozy he has a chance as Bayrou plays his spoiler role perfectly (less so with Fillon).
    Juppe has been weakened by the primary and Le Pen has a clear lead.

    It's interesting that Fillon gets a good chunk of Bayrou's voters even if his is in the running. Could Bayrou possibly drop out for Fillon too? If that could be negotiated before the Republicains primary it would be a big boost for Fillon.
    Fillon has said he would not make deals with anyone, it's a key part of his pitch. Thus I doubt he would do it now.
    However Bayrou might be scared of the 5 percent threshold for public reimbursement of campaign spending and decide not to risk it.
  • Options
    MTimTMTimT Posts: 7,034
    Scott_P said:

    MTimT said:

    It's Scott_P, you don't have to ask that question. He is Marvin.

    I love you too, Tim
    At least I admit you have a brain the size of a planet and your voice is like Alan Rickman's ... ;)
  • Options
    Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    PlatoSaid said:

    Sighs

    Aidan Kerr
    A British student union has outlawed newspapers whose editorials it disagrees with to combat 'fascism'. https://t.co/YNPf0sYcFj

    I assume it's part of a course on irony.

    Sadly they are failing the "self awareness" module
  • Options
    SimonStClareSimonStClare Posts: 7,976
    edited November 2016
    PlatoSaid said:

    Sighs

    Aidan Kerr
    A British student union has outlawed newspapers whose editorials it disagrees with to combat 'fascism'. https://t.co/YNPf0sYcFj

    Banning news papers sounds the very definition of low key fascism.
  • Options
    MortimerMortimer Posts: 13,956
    justin124 said:

    On Topic.
    If you compare polling now with 5 years ago, when Labour already had a solid lead, its hard to see Labour getting more than 20% in a General Election. For swing voters, there will be a new question that they havent faced since 1982 : Tories or Liberals ? Labour will be reduced to fringe status.
    All that is before we factor Brexit in.

    On the other hand,Labour was 10/11 points behind at the same stage of the 1987 Parliament and went on to win 35.2% of the vote in 1992.
    With a centrist leadership....

    Corbo is further left than Foot, and unlike the latter, who was a hero, seems to be anti West on almost every possible point of difference.
  • Options
    Well the debate was good before it became a stand up show by a series of SNP MPs.
  • Options

    O/T French election

    First poll after Macron entered officially his candidacy
    IFOP for Sud Radio

    Three scenarios
    Le Pen 30 Juppe 26 Macron 14 Melenchon 13 Hollande 9 all others 8
    Le Pen 28 Sarkozy 17.5 Macron 16 Melenchon 13 Hollande 9. Bayrou 8.5 all others 8
    Le Pen 29 Fillon 20 Macron 15 Melenchon 13 Hollande 10 Bayrou 5.5 all others 7.5

    Macron starts his campaign in a good third position but is clearly behind the Republicain candidate. If it's Sarkozy he has a chance as Bayrou plays his spoiler role perfectly (less so with Fillon).
    Juppe has been weakened by the primary and Le Pen has a clear lead.


    What should be the eyeball-popping figure there is the Socialist on 9-10%, behind a Communist. How the mighty have fallen.
    Indeed. The question of Hollande giving up is now openly discussed by socialist ministers. The problem for them is that the two main other possible candidates do not poll much better. Their hope is a sarkozy victory in the Republicains primary, a quick loss of support by Macron and a positive coverage during their own primary in January.
  • Options
    SandpitSandpit Posts: 49,941
    PlatoSaid said:

    Sighs

    Aidan Kerr
    A British student union has outlawed newspapers whose editorials it disagrees with to combat 'fascism'. https://t.co/YNPf0sYcFj

    What the hell is going to happen to all these special snowflakes when they hit the real world? Will there be enough jobs in equality and diversity at the local authorities to go around?
  • Options
    justin124 said:

    On Topic.
    If you compare polling now with 5 years ago, when Labour already had a solid lead, its hard to see Labour getting more than 20% in a General Election. For swing voters, there will be a new question that they havent faced since 1982 : Tories or Liberals ? Labour will be reduced to fringe status.
    All that is before we factor Brexit in.

    On the other hand,Labour was 10/11 points behind at the same stage of the 1987 Parliament and went on to win 35.2% of the vote in 1992.
    Labour has two months left to make a breakthrough with that precedent. The average Con lead in Dec 1988 (18 months after the GE) was 8%, as it was in Jan 1989. In February, it had fallen to 2%, where it stayed more-or-less until May. By June 1989 (exactly two years from the GE), Labour had an average lead of 7%.
  • Options
    not_on_firenot_on_fire Posts: 4,341

    PlatoSaid said:

    Sighs

    Aidan Kerr
    A British student union has outlawed newspapers whose editorials it disagrees with to combat 'fascism'. https://t.co/YNPf0sYcFj

    Banning news papers sounds the very definition of low key fascism.
    I presume this will have no impact on sales of the Express on campus - it doesn't contain any news.
  • Options
    glwglw Posts: 9,554
    PlatoSaid said:

    Sighs

    Aidan Kerr
    A British student union has outlawed newspapers whose editorials it disagrees with to combat 'fascism'. https://t.co/YNPf0sYcFj

    "Burning books" to fight fascism.
  • Options
    MortimerMortimer Posts: 13,956
    MTimT said:

    Scott_P said:

    MTimT said:

    It's Scott_P, you don't have to ask that question. He is Marvin.

    I love you too, Tim
    At least I admit you have a brain the size of a planet and your voice is like Alan Rickman's ... ;)
    Best not mention Monty Hall...
  • Options

    PlatoSaid said:

    Sighs

    Aidan Kerr
    A British student union has outlawed newspapers whose editorials it disagrees with to combat 'fascism'. https://t.co/YNPf0sYcFj

    Banning news papers sounds the very definition of low key fascism.
    I presume this will have no impact on sales of the Express on campus - it doesn't contain any news.
    Continual front pages about phantom 'trade deals' and a picture of Liam Fox with a union jack halo - our young people need protecting!
  • Options
    TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 40,270
    edited November 2016

    PlatoSaid said:

    Sighs

    Aidan Kerr
    A British student union has outlawed newspapers whose editorials it disagrees with to combat 'fascism'. https://t.co/YNPf0sYcFj

    Banning news papers sounds the very definition of low key fascism.
    Yup, what with politicians being murdered for their political views, newspapers branding judges enemies of the people and 100k marches on the courts, it's hell in a hand cart time.
  • Options
    justin124justin124 Posts: 11,527

    justin124 said:

    On Topic.
    If you compare polling now with 5 years ago, when Labour already had a solid lead, its hard to see Labour getting more than 20% in a General Election. For swing voters, there will be a new question that they havent faced since 1982 : Tories or Liberals ? Labour will be reduced to fringe status.
    All that is before we factor Brexit in.

    On the other hand,Labour was 10/11 points behind at the same stage of the 1987 Parliament and went on to win 35.2% of the vote in 1992.
    Labour has two months left to make a breakthrough with that precedent. The average Con lead in Dec 1988 (18 months after the GE) was 8%, as it was in Jan 1989. In February, it had fallen to 2%, where it stayed more-or-less until May. By June 1989 (exactly two years from the GE), Labour had an average lead of 7%.
    Yes - at the end of Jan 1989 there were polls putting the Tories ahead by 11,12 and 13%.
  • Options
    glw said:

    PlatoSaid said:

    Sighs

    Aidan Kerr
    A British student union has outlawed newspapers whose editorials it disagrees with to combat 'fascism'. https://t.co/YNPf0sYcFj

    "Burning books" to fight fascism.
    comics.

    c'mon grow some pairs tho. student unions been banning the sun since prehistory when i were a lass.

    you can't call us leftards snowflakes when you're so easily upset
  • Options

    Scott_P said:
    She was criticised for that for challenging the independence of the Bank of England. So what do you want? Her to continue to challenge it or not to?

    Or are you just looking to whine either way?
    ..........just looking to whine either way...........paste after paste from Pasty Scott.
  • Options
    CookieCookie Posts: 11,505
    welshowl said:

    @david_ herdson

    Austria:

    Indeed. Though Austria had an army to keep it together and a Tudor style monarchy to exercise executive power. I doubt it would've lasted five minutes given modern democracy and no threat of force.

    Interestingly I think it had two proper nationalities: you were "Austrian" or "Hungarian" but not "Austro-Hungarian". They shared an Emperor/King, a foreign policy, an army, and a (squabbled over interminably) internal financial settlement, and that's about all. Sort of devo mega max for the 19th century.

    An interesting counterfactual is what would have happened to the Austro-Hungarian empire had the 1st world war not happened. Would it have slowly democratised (I think so), and would it have splintered as a result (again, I think so, but it's far from a given).
    We probably wouldn't have had Yugoslavia anyway, and probably not Czechoslovakia.
  • Options
    justin124justin124 Posts: 11,527
    The crossbreaks from the Mori poll are interesting. In England the Tories have a 9% lead – the same margin as for GB as a whole. In May 2015 the Tories lead Labour by 9.5% in England which means that Mori is implying a tiny 0.25% swing from Tory to Labour there. Were that to happen it would result in 3 Labour gains – which would halve the Tory majority to 6.
    On the other hand, the Scotland crossbreak has the Tories on 37% and the SNP on 38%.- which I suspect stretches credulity a bit!
  • Options
    TCPoliticalBettingTCPoliticalBetting Posts: 10,819
    edited November 2016
    Sandpit said:

    PlatoSaid said:

    Sighs

    Aidan Kerr
    A British student union has outlawed newspapers whose editorials it disagrees with to combat 'fascism'. https://t.co/YNPf0sYcFj

    What the hell is going to happen to all these special snowflakes when they hit the real world? Will there be enough jobs in equality and diversity at the local authorities to go around?
    They join Momentum or the Lib Dems?
  • Options
    Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453

    it's hell in a hand cart time.

    Scottish Tory Surge Klaxon!

    https://twitter.com/scottories/status/799593709394345984
  • Options

    glw said:

    PlatoSaid said:

    Sighs

    Aidan Kerr
    A British student union has outlawed newspapers whose editorials it disagrees with to combat 'fascism'. https://t.co/YNPf0sYcFj

    "Burning books" to fight fascism.
    comics.

    c'mon grow some pairs tho. student unions been banning the sun since prehistory when i were a lass.

    you can't call us leftards snowflakes when you're so easily upset
    Are Milky Bars still banned? (Something to do with powdered milk and the Third World.)
  • Options
    Hold the front page (if you can find one), fascism delayed.

    https://twitter.com/CharlieBeckett/status/799591173438455808
  • Options
    old_labourold_labour Posts: 3,238
    edited November 2016
  • Options
    MortimerMortimer Posts: 13,956
    justin124 said:

    The crossbreaks from the Mori poll are interesting. In England the Tories have a 9% lead – the same margin as for GB as a whole. In May 2015 the Tories lead Labour by 9.5% in England which means that Mori is implying a tiny 0.25% swing from Tory to Labour there. Were that to happen it would result in 3 Labour gains – which would halve the Tory majority to 6.
    On the other hand, the Scotland crossbreak has the Tories on 37% and the SNP on 38%.- which I suspect stretches credulity a bit!

    As does the idea of Labour winning seats off the Tories.

    Justin - do you canvass or talk politics in the street? The reason I ask is that the general reaction to the Labour Party is laughter, outside of big cities.
  • Options
    Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453

    Continual front pages about phantom 'trade deals' and a picture of Liam Fox with a union jack halo - our young people need protecting!

    Tis amusing that to fight fascism on campus you would need to buy the Express
  • Options

    Hold the front page (if you can find one), fascism delayed.

    https://twitter.com/CharlieBeckett/status/799591173438455808

    What self-respecting student buys newspapers anyway? Reading is the one thing students love to avoid.
  • Options
    the bitter harvest of brexit
  • Options
    MortimerMortimer Posts: 13,956
    edited November 2016

    Hold the front page (if you can find one), fascism delayed.

    https://twitter.com/CharlieBeckett/status/799591173438455808

    Don't most student unions buy copies of all papers each day? BNC certainly did...
  • Options
    As long as they remain the same shape, outrage will be kept to a minimum...
  • Options
    CookieCookie Posts: 11,505

    PlatoSaid said:

    Sighs

    Aidan Kerr
    A British student union has outlawed newspapers whose editorials it disagrees with to combat 'fascism'. https://t.co/YNPf0sYcFj

    Banning news papers sounds the very definition of low key fascism.
    I presume this will have no impact on sales of the Express on campus - it doesn't contain any news.
    The Express is a wonderful paper for weather fantasists and fans of dead princesses - I expect there are at least some of these on campuses.
  • Options
    Scott_P said:

    it's hell in a hand cart time.

    Scottish Tory Surge Klaxon!

    https://twitter.com/scottories/status/799593709394345984
    SCons retain a borders council seat? Don't even need to hold page 36 for that one.
  • Options
    MarkHopkinsMarkHopkins Posts: 5,584

    the bitter harvest of brexit

    A very convenient Brexit.

  • Options
    glwglw Posts: 9,554

    c'mon grow some pairs tho. student unions been banning the sun since prehistory when i were a lass.

    I wasn't implying it was anything new, we all know that student unions have been at the leading edge of applied stupidity for decades.
  • Options
    AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670
    Scott_P said:
    Downing Street has seen how effective gas lighting worked across the pond and wants to get in on the action.
  • Options
    Mortimer said:

    Hold the front page (if you can find one), fascism delayed.

    https://twitter.com/CharlieBeckett/status/799591173438455808

    Don't most student unions buy copies of all papers each day? BNC certainly did...
    BNC has already voted to dump the Sun, not sure about the others

    Not that anyone reads them any more
  • Options
    SandpitSandpit Posts: 49,941

    Hold the front page (if you can find one), fascism delayed.

    https://twitter.com/CharlieBeckett/status/799591173438455808

    So they voted to ban the sale of certain newspapers, but the SU doesn't have a shop that sells any newspapers anyway - WTF?
  • Options
    justin124 said:

    justin124 said:

    On Topic.
    If you compare polling now with 5 years ago, when Labour already had a solid lead, its hard to see Labour getting more than 20% in a General Election. For swing voters, there will be a new question that they havent faced since 1982 : Tories or Liberals ? Labour will be reduced to fringe status.
    All that is before we factor Brexit in.

    On the other hand,Labour was 10/11 points behind at the same stage of the 1987 Parliament and went on to win 35.2% of the vote in 1992.
    Labour has two months left to make a breakthrough with that precedent. The average Con lead in Dec 1988 (18 months after the GE) was 8%, as it was in Jan 1989. In February, it had fallen to 2%, where it stayed more-or-less until May. By June 1989 (exactly two years from the GE), Labour had an average lead of 7%.
    Yes - at the end of Jan 1989 there were polls putting the Tories ahead by 11,12 and 13%.
    I'm not sure of the point you're trying to make there?
  • Options
    williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 48,146
    Scott_P said:

    The only problem with this week's cover of The Economist is that Putin is wearing a shirt.

    No the problem is that it shows the two most powerful men in the world, alongside a nincompoop who can't get elected in Kent.
  • Options
    PlatoSaidPlatoSaid Posts: 10,383
    edited November 2016
    If the reports of Jeff Sessions as AG are true, every liberal head is going to explode.

    He's hardcore.

    Edit and another

    Steve Holland
    Trump has offered position of CIA director to US Rep Mike Pompeo and Pompeo has accepted -transition official
  • Options
    What is it with Brexiteers arse crawling the US Right?

    https://twitter.com/DanielJHannan/status/799595434331095040
  • Options
    MortimerMortimer Posts: 13,956
    PlatoSaid said:

    If the reports of Jeff Sessions as AG are true, every liberal head is going to explode.

    He's hardcore.

    Edit and another

    Steve Holland
    Trump has offered position of CIA director to US Rep Mike Pompeo and Pompeo has accepted -transition official

    Floods due from all the melted snowflakes?
  • Options
    glw said:

    c'mon grow some pairs tho. student unions been banning the sun since prehistory when i were a lass.

    I wasn't implying it was anything new, we all know that student unions have been at the leading edge of applied stupidity for decades.
    exactly. then they get into govt and continue applying it (cf boris, gove etc.)
  • Options
    welshowlwelshowl Posts: 4,460
    edited November 2016
    Cookie said:

    welshowl said:

    @david_ herdson

    Austria:

    Indeed. Though Austria had an army to keep it together and a Tudor style monarchy to exercise executive power. I doubt it would've lasted five minutes given modern democracy and no threat of force.

    Interestingly I think it had two proper nationalities: you were "Austrian" or "Hungarian" but not "Austro-Hungarian". They shared an Emperor/King, a foreign policy, an army, and a (squabbled over interminably) internal financial settlement, and that's about all. Sort of devo mega max for the 19th century.

    An interesting counterfactual is what would have happened to the Austro-Hungarian empire had the 1st world war not happened. Would it have slowly democratised (I think so), and would it have splintered as a result (again, I think so, but it's far from a given).
    We probably wouldn't have had Yugoslavia anyway, and probably not Czechoslovakia.
    These are great fun aren't they the what ifs. I always like the one where the American Revolution failed and WW1 (and obvs WW2) never happen because even Kaiser Bill could see taking on the Brits including America was not going to end well so he played nicely instead. (Got to gloss over the Civil War and whether the huddled masses would've still turned up and been Americanised/Anglicised to give America the demographic heft it acquired with that one, but all good fun!)

    Yes, as you say probably not unreasonable to say it would've evolved eventually (for instance the Croats were trying to have with the Hungarians what the Hungarians had with the Austrians in terms of autonomy prior to WW1). My guess is by now we'd be not a million miles from where we are now on the map (maybe Hungary's a bit bigger hanging on to S Slovakia, N Serbia and bits of Romania), but I cannot see how the full on multinational one state entity would've staggered through another 100 years.

    Consent is my beef. The EU does not have consent for the Project as matters stand. So either go and get it explicitly and openly in a proper way by convincing the European peoples of exactly what "it" would look like, or give up and come to something looser but still friendly, and thereby stop poisoning the whole well slowly but surely, as now.

  • Options
    justin124justin124 Posts: 11,527
    Mortimer said:

    justin124 said:

    The crossbreaks from the Mori poll are interesting. In England the Tories have a 9% lead – the same margin as for GB as a whole. In May 2015 the Tories lead Labour by 9.5% in England which means that Mori is implying a tiny 0.25% swing from Tory to Labour there. Were that to happen it would result in 3 Labour gains – which would halve the Tory majority to 6.
    On the other hand, the Scotland crossbreak has the Tories on 37% and the SNP on 38%.- which I suspect stretches credulity a bit!

    As does the idea of Labour winning seats off the Tories.

    Justin - do you canvass or talk politics in the street? The reason I ask is that the general reaction to the Labour Party is laughter, outside of big cities.
    I have not canvassed for 20 years and am not a member of a party. In the pubs I find very varied reactions to Corbyn - though I am not a fan myself!
  • Options
    MortimerMortimer Posts: 13,956

    Mortimer said:

    Hold the front page (if you can find one), fascism delayed.

    https://twitter.com/CharlieBeckett/status/799591173438455808

    Don't most student unions buy copies of all papers each day? BNC certainly did...
    BNC has already voted to dump the Sun, not sure about the others

    Not that anyone reads them any more
    Yeh, I see to remember that happened whilst I was there or shortly after.

    The Sun was the most read, IIRC.
  • Options
    justin124justin124 Posts: 11,527

    justin124 said:

    justin124 said:

    On Topic.
    If you compare polling now with 5 years ago, when Labour already had a solid lead, its hard to see Labour getting more than 20% in a General Election. For swing voters, there will be a new question that they havent faced since 1982 : Tories or Liberals ? Labour will be reduced to fringe status.
    All that is before we factor Brexit in.

    On the other hand,Labour was 10/11 points behind at the same stage of the 1987 Parliament and went on to win 35.2% of the vote in 1992.
    Labour has two months left to make a breakthrough with that precedent. The average Con lead in Dec 1988 (18 months after the GE) was 8%, as it was in Jan 1989. In February, it had fallen to 2%, where it stayed more-or-less until May. By June 1989 (exactly two years from the GE), Labour had an average lead of 7%.
    Yes - at the end of Jan 1989 there were polls putting the Tories ahead by 11,12 and 13%.
    I'm not sure of the point you're trying to make there?
    I am agreeing with you really and just pointing out that the Tories still had a big lead at that stage - which did not happen again until the end of 1990 when Major replaced Thatcher.
  • Options
    PlatoSaidPlatoSaid Posts: 10,383

    PlatoSaid said:

    Sighs

    Aidan Kerr
    A British student union has outlawed newspapers whose editorials it disagrees with to combat 'fascism'. https://t.co/YNPf0sYcFj

    Banning news papers sounds the very definition of low key fascism.
    It's a journalism school too. Jonathan Pie's going bonkers on his twitter feed
  • Options

    What is it with Brexiteers arse crawling the US Right?

    https://twitter.com/DanielJHannan/status/799595434331095040

    think they're just jealous of the available lobbyist cash? Hannan used to present as a passable human. shark jumped
  • Options
    Stark_DawningStark_Dawning Posts: 9,324
    edited November 2016

    Scott_P said:

    The only problem with this week's cover of The Economist is that Putin is wearing a shirt.

    No the problem is that it shows the two most powerful men in the world, alongside a nincompoop who can't get elected in Kent.
    Our Nige has now realized that elections are insufficiently practicable when it comes to the attainment of power.
  • Options
    Scott_P said:
    Is this where we guess what the Corbynista are going to sing? I propose The Stranglers 'No more Heroes', with opening line: "Whatever happened to Leon Trotsky?"
  • Options
    old_labourold_labour Posts: 3,238

    the bitter harvest of brexit
    A healthy Brexit!
  • Options
    welshowlwelshowl Posts: 4,460
    Scott_P said:
    But Marine "Marianne" Le Pen only half is........
  • Options
    PlatoSaidPlatoSaid Posts: 10,383
    edited November 2016
    Mortimer said:

    PlatoSaid said:

    If the reports of Jeff Sessions as AG are true, every liberal head is going to explode.

    He's hardcore.

    Edit and another

    Steve Holland
    Trump has offered position of CIA director to US Rep Mike Pompeo and Pompeo has accepted -transition official

    Floods due from all the melted snowflakes?
    Sessions makes Albert Pierrepoint look like a softy. Pompeo is Kansas Tea Party man.

    EDIT And latter was 1st in class at Westpoint.
  • Options
    PlatoSaid said:

    PlatoSaid said:

    Sighs

    Aidan Kerr
    A British student union has outlawed newspapers whose editorials it disagrees with to combat 'fascism'. https://t.co/YNPf0sYcFj

    Banning news papers sounds the very definition of low key fascism.
    It's a journalism school too. Jonathan Pie's going bonkers on his twitter feed
    Snow melting alert.
  • Options
    TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 40,270
    edited November 2016

    What is it with Brexiteers arse crawling the US Right?

    https://twitter.com/DanielJHannan/status/799595434331095040

    think they're just jealous of the available lobbyist cash? Hannan used to present as a passable human. shark jumped
    Mind you, Danny Boy probably thinks of Canadian born Cruz as not really foreign, and his patriotism is to the Anglosphere.
  • Options

    Scott_P said:

    The only problem with this week's cover of The Economist is that Putin is wearing a shirt.

    No the problem is that it shows the two most powerful men in the world, alongside a nincompoop who can't get elected in Kent.
    That nincompoop saw off the Chumocracy in the most important referendum in generations. Doesn't say much for the prowess of Cameron and Osborne.
  • Options
    williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 48,146

    What is it with Brexiteers arse crawling the US Right?

    https://twitter.com/DanielJHannan/status/799595434331095040

    think they're just jealous of the available lobbyist cash? Hannan used to present as a passable human. shark jumped
    He didn't even know that the EU has a comprehensive free trade agreement with Chile which as an EU parliamentarian who does nothing but bang on about free trade is impressive. Post-truth politics doesn't really work if it's done in such an earnest and smug manner.
  • Options
    Sandpit said:

    Hold the front page (if you can find one), fascism delayed.

    https://twitter.com/CharlieBeckett/status/799591173438455808

    So they voted to ban the sale of certain newspapers, but the SU doesn't have a shop that sells any newspapers anyway - WTF?
    It is symbolic of their struggle against oppression.
  • Options
    williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 48,146
    jcesmond said:

    Scott_P said:

    The only problem with this week's cover of The Economist is that Putin is wearing a shirt.

    No the problem is that it shows the two most powerful men in the world, alongside a nincompoop who can't get elected in Kent.
    That nincompoop saw off the Chumocracy in the most important referendum in generations. Doesn't say much for the prowess of Cameron and Osborne.
    He bottled the big TV debate before the vote. It was Boris, Gove, Leadsom and Stuart who won it.
  • Options
    SandpitSandpit Posts: 49,941

    What is it with Brexiteers arse crawling the US Right?

    ttps://twitter.com/DanielJHannan/status/799595434331095040

    Dan Hannan would be a somewhat better choice of British representative to the US than Nigel Farage.
  • Options
    MortimerMortimer Posts: 13,956
    justin124 said:

    Mortimer said:

    justin124 said:

    The crossbreaks from the Mori poll are interesting. In England the Tories have a 9% lead – the same margin as for GB as a whole. In May 2015 the Tories lead Labour by 9.5% in England which means that Mori is implying a tiny 0.25% swing from Tory to Labour there. Were that to happen it would result in 3 Labour gains – which would halve the Tory majority to 6.
    On the other hand, the Scotland crossbreak has the Tories on 37% and the SNP on 38%.- which I suspect stretches credulity a bit!

    As does the idea of Labour winning seats off the Tories.

    Justin - do you canvass or talk politics in the street? The reason I ask is that the general reaction to the Labour Party is laughter, outside of big cities.
    I have not canvassed for 20 years and am not a member of a party. In the pubs I find very varied reactions to Corbyn - though I am not a fan myself!
    Its not just Corbyn - it is the party itself. Too much talking mode and not enough listening.
  • Options
    williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 48,146
    Sandpit said:

    What is it with Brexiteers arse crawling the US Right?

    Dan Hannan would be a somewhat better choice of British representative to the US than Nigel Farage.
    You mean he's an authentic arse crawler rather than someone who's just in it for themselves?
  • Options
    Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453

    It is symbolic of their struggle against oppression.

    Mr. Morgan: I know how difficult it must be for you to overcome all those years of upper middle-class suburban oppression. Must be tough. But the next time you storm the PTA crusading for better... lunch meat, or whatever it is you white girls complain about, ask them WHY they can't buy a book written by a black man!

    http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0147800/quotes?item=qt0403004
This discussion has been closed.