Am slightly puzzled at the Brexiteer's opposition to a second referendum on the result of the Brexit terms - what if the Government find that the best deal they can get includes only marginal controls on free movement - wouldn't Leavers then want a second referendum?
Good point. I'm a remainer and I don't want a second referendum. I want to get out as quickly as possible so we can start campaigning to get back in on the issues, not on the constitutional niceties.
Is this where we guess what the Corbynista are going to sing? I propose The Stranglers 'No more Heroes', with opening line: "Whatever happened to Leon Trotsky?"
The Red Flag also has the benefit of being the same tune as a carol.
Is this where we guess what the Corbynista are going to sing? I propose The Stranglers 'No more Heroes', with opening line: "Whatever happened to Leon Trotsky?"
The Red Flag also has the benefit of being the same tune as a carol.
Looking at Trump's picks in a number of positions, race-relations are going to get even more worse than they are now (which will reinforce the identity politics that PBers have told us is going to end). US is going to be an even more divided country by the time Trump's first term has ended.
The crossbreaks from the Mori poll are interesting. In England the Tories have a 9% lead – the same margin as for GB as a whole. In May 2015 the Tories lead Labour by 9.5% in England which means that Mori is implying a tiny 0.25% swing from Tory to Labour there. Were that to happen it would result in 3 Labour gains – which would halve the Tory majority to 6. On the other hand, the Scotland crossbreak has the Tories on 37% and the SNP on 38%.- which I suspect stretches credulity a bit!
As does the idea of Labour winning seats off the Tories.
Justin - do you canvass or talk politics in the street? The reason I ask is that the general reaction to the Labour Party is laughter, outside of big cities.
I have not canvassed for 20 years and am not a member of a party. In the pubs I find very varied reactions to Corbyn - though I am not a fan myself!
Its not just Corbyn - it is the party itself. Too much talking mode and not enough listening.
Looking at Trump's picks in a number of positions, race-relations are going to get even more worse than they are now (which will reinforce the identity politics that PBers have told us is going to end). US is going to be an even more divided country by the time Trump's first term has ended.
@ChadPergram: Reagan nominated Sen Sessions for the federal bench in '86. Nomination blew up over Sessions's views on race. Reagan yanked nomination
Is this where we guess what the Corbynista are going to sing? I propose The Stranglers 'No more Heroes', with opening line: "Whatever happened to Leon Trotsky?"
No doubt all the idiots who sent "Ding Dong the Witch is Dead" soaring up the charts after Margaret Thatcher died will buy a copy, so it may be in with a chance.
Looking at Trump's picks in a number of positions, race-relations are going to get even more worse than they are now (which will reinforce the identity politics that PBers have told us is going to end). US is going to be an even more divided country by the time Trump's first term has ended.
@ChadPergram: Reagan nominated Sen Sessions for the federal bench in '86. Nomination blew up over Sessions's views on race. Reagan yanked nomination
Interesting info Scott, thanks. Though I don't see Trump following in Reagan's footsteps on this one, sadly.
I must say how entertaining Trump's chess playing is. He's luring the media onto his ground - just as he did with his primary opponents.
He dangles Romney like a shiny object re SoS, then appoints two tough guys in tough guy jobs - if reports are right. And General Flynn is confirmed as NSA chap too.
I see David Axelrod has tweeted his support for The Donald today re making appointments timetable. Funny old world.
Is this where we guess what the Corbynista are going to sing? I propose The Stranglers 'No more Heroes', with opening line: "Whatever happened to Leon Trotsky?"
The Red Flag also has the benefit of being the same tune as a carol.
On Topic. If you compare polling now with 5 years ago, when Labour already had a solid lead, its hard to see Labour getting more than 20% in a General Election. For swing voters, there will be a new question that they havent faced since 1982 : Tories or Liberals ? Labour will be reduced to fringe status. All that is before we factor Brexit in.
On the other hand,Labour was 10/11 points behind at the same stage of the 1987 Parliament and went on to win 35.2% of the vote in 1992.
Labour has two months left to make a breakthrough with that precedent. The average Con lead in Dec 1988 (18 months after the GE) was 8%, as it was in Jan 1989. In February, it had fallen to 2%, where it stayed more-or-less until May. By June 1989 (exactly two years from the GE), Labour had an average lead of 7%.
Yes - at the end of Jan 1989 there were polls putting the Tories ahead by 11,12 and 13%.
I'm not sure of the point you're trying to make there?
I am agreeing with you really and just pointing out that the Tories still had a big lead at that stage - which did not happen again until the end of 1990 when Major replaced Thatcher.
It is symbolic of their struggle against oppression.
Mr. Morgan: I know how difficult it must be for you to overcome all those years of upper middle-class suburban oppression. Must be tough. But the next time you storm the PTA crusading for better... lunch meat, or whatever it is you white girls complain about, ask them WHY they can't buy a book written by a black man!
Bill Mitchell I have a sense Trump is holding back on appointing women just to suck the media in so they complain about it, then BAMM, women appointments.
Looking at Trump's picks in a number of positions, race-relations are going to get even more worse than they are now (which will reinforce the identity politics that PBers have told us is going to end). US is going to be an even more divided country by the time Trump's first term has ended.
@ChadPergram: Reagan nominated Sen Sessions for the federal bench in '86. Nomination blew up over Sessions's views on race. Reagan yanked nomination
Ron was just a mainstream liberal though. The guy didn't even admire oppressive Russian dictatorships.
Bill Mitchell I have a sense Trump is holding back on appointing women just to suck the media in so they complain about it, then BAMM, women appointments.
Interesting strategy. Trump reacts to media reports, crisis in his team and changes tack will be the story.
If the reports of Jeff Sessions as AG are true, every liberal head is going to explode. He's hardcore. Edit and another Steve Holland Trump has offered position of CIA director to US Rep Mike Pompeo and Pompeo has accepted -transition official
PMSL "Pompeo opposes closing Guantánamo Bay detention camp.[12] After a 2013 visit to the prison, Pompeo said, of the prisoners who were on hunger strike, "It looked to me like a lot of them had put on weight." " wikipedia
Bill Mitchell I have a sense Trump is holding back on appointing women just to suck the media in so they complain about it, then BAMM, women appointments.
Bill Mitchell I have a sense Trump is holding back on appointing women just to suck the media in so they complain about it, then BAMM, women appointments.
Justin - do you canvass or talk politics in the street? The reason I ask is that the general reaction to the Labour Party is laughter, outside of big cities.
No it isn't - not in the WWC East Midlands division where I'm canvassing, at least. Perhaps we're all projecting our own contact circles - do you do much canvassing?
As I said the other day, though, quite a few people who usually lean Labour nonetheless think May has been not too bad so far - Brexit but not bonkers - though they do wonder what she'll deliver.
There are lots of people on here who are good at betting on elections/defenestrations etc. But it is surprising how many don't seem to understand how politics works. Such as the Tories, UKIPpers and other Brexiteers who seem to think because neither Tim Farron nor the Lib Dem stance on Europe appeal to them, then they won't appeal to anyone else either. No politician can appeal to everyone (trying to do it is what has debased politics because it removes the ability to have principles and stand up for your core values). But as the chart in the thread header shows, significantly more people express support for the Lib Dems based on a pro-EU stance than voted Lib Dem in 2015. We may not harvest votes from all the 48% but the chances are that we would harvest quite a few of them - see Witney.
As for the idea that the constituencies the Tories took from the Lib Dems that voted Leave will remain Tory, you seem to have forgotten that one quite possible scenario is for the Remain vote to coalesce around the Lib Dems while the Leave vote gets split by other parties. There are Leavers on the left who will never vote Tory. And there are Remainers who would normally vote Tory but feel strongly enough to switch their vote.
The other thing that doesn't seem to have entered anyone's head is that the Lib Dem stance on Europe arises out of conviction that we are actually better off in. It isn't just focus group positioning, it's actually pretty fundamental to most of the people in the party. So that's what the Lib Dems will campaign to do. No chance of us changing our minds. Bit like Iraq really - vilified at the time for our stance, but vindicated afterwards. Some are vilifying us now. Maybe we will be vindicated later on the EU too.
Justin - do you canvass or talk politics in the street? The reason I ask is that the general reaction to the Labour Party is laughter, outside of big cities.
No it isn't - not in the WWC East Midlands division where I'm canvassing, at least. Perhaps we're all projecting our own contact circles - do you do much canvassing?
As I said the other day, though, quite a few people who usually lean Labour nonetheless think May has been not too bad so far - Brexit but not bonkers - though they do wonder what she'll deliver.
You need to get out and talk to the WWC.. mention Corbyn and you'll understand. The WWC I come into contact with think Corbyn is a joke. They wont vote Labour whilst he is leader. That's why the 33% figure for Labour VI is a joke.
Justin - do you canvass or talk politics in the street? The reason I ask is that the general reaction to the Labour Party is laughter, outside of big cities.
No it isn't - not in the WWC East Midlands division where I'm canvassing, at least. Perhaps we're all projecting our own contact circles - do you do much canvassing?
As I said the other day, though, quite a few people who usually lean Labour nonetheless think May has been not too bad so far - Brexit but not bonkers - though they do wonder what she'll deliver.
Yup - quite a bit of canvassing. The one or two people who say they vote Labour usually preface it with 'used to' or follow it with a meek smile.
More significantly, amongst my large group of 20s friends (all of whom voted Remain) there are at most 2 or 3 labour voters. Mostly NOTA, Greens, Lib Dems and even a few Tories.....
When Labour is brought up it is with derision, even by those 2 or 3.
Bill Mitchell I have a sense Trump is holding back on appointing women just to suck the media in so they complain about it, then BAMM, women appointments.
Interesting strategy. Trump reacts to media reports, crisis in his team and changes tack will be the story.
Interesting insight into the mind of the Trump devotees though - an obsession with the media and how to score points against them is a fundamental concern.
Bill Mitchell I have a sense Trump is holding back on appointing women just to suck the media in so they complain about it, then BAMM, women appointments.
It will be interesting to see what happens. I think Trump will either be a disaster or a great President. Looking forward to January.
Sessions is a terrible pick. I really hope that this isn't going to happen. Personally I think Trump is colourblind in terms of race, but that means he doesn't see it as a big deal and doesn't see appointing someone like Sessions who isn't colourblind as a big deal, when it is.
It really isn't - look at the Palace of Westminster refurb....
In a so-called age of austerity it's huge. The Westminster refurb. is obscenely expensive.
Try to do anything non-domestic or commerical refurb wise, even a couple of rooms, and you'll spend a few million. The numbers of different contractors involved in even tiny projects now are huge.
My honest reaction when I heard the 369m figure was 'is that all'.
And isnt it going to be paid for using the Crown's money anyway - from the estates?
Bill Mitchell I have a sense Trump is holding back on appointing women just to suck the media in so they complain about it, then BAMM, women appointments.
Interesting strategy. Trump reacts to media reports, crisis in his team and changes tack will be the story.
Interesting insight into the mind of the Trump devotees though - an obsession with the media and how to score points against is a fundamental concern.
Yet another concern on a mountainous pile of concerns, which requires an oxygen mask to get to the summit.
There are lots of people on here who are good at betting on elections/defenestrations etc. But it is surprising how many don't seem to understand how politics works. Such as the Tories, UKIPpers and other Brexiteers who seem to think because neither Tim Farron nor the Lib Dem stance on Europe appeal to them, then they won't appeal to anyone else either. No politician can appeal to everyone (trying to do it is what has debased politics because it removes the ability to have principles and stand up for your core values). But as the chart in the thread header shows, significantly more people express support for the Lib Dems based on a pro-EU stance than voted Lib Dem in 2015. We may not harvest votes from all the 48% but the chances are that we would harvest quite a few of them - see Witney.
As for the idea that the constituencies the Tories took from the Lib Dems that voted Leave will remain Tory, you seem to have forgotten that one quite possible scenario is for the Remain vote to coalesce around the Lib Dems while the Leave vote gets split by other parties. There are Leavers on the left who will never vote Tory. And there are Remainers who would normally vote Tory but feel strongly enough to switch their vote.
The other thing that doesn't seem to have entered anyone's head is that the Lib Dem stance on Europe arises out of conviction that we are actually better off in. It isn't just focus group positioning, it's actually pretty fundamental to most of the people in the party. So that's what the Lib Dems will campaign to do. No chance of us changing our minds. Bit like Iraq really - vilified at the time for our stance, but vindicated afterwards. Some are vilifying us now. Maybe we will be vindicated later on the EU too.
I pretty much agree with this as it is clearly, strategically, the 'right' thing for your party to do. It is however a great shame that it ends up being European-ism, rather than Liberalism that is your parties raison d'etre - those of us who are liberal leavers are finding other parties which potentially weakens the cause of liberalism overall.
It really isn't - look at the Palace of Westminster refurb....
In a so-called age of austerity it's huge. The Westminster refurb. is obscenely expensive.
Try to do anything non-domestic or commerical refurb wise, even a couple of rooms, and you'll spend a few million. The numbers of different contractors involved in even tiny projects now are huge.
Did they go to the private sector to pay for it? I am sure Sports Direct would have sponsored the summer open house.
In the old days they used to marry off members of the family to pay for it.
Bill Mitchell I have a sense Trump is holding back on appointing women just to suck the media in so they complain about it, then BAMM, women appointments.
Interesting strategy. Trump reacts to media reports, crisis in his team and changes tack will be the story.
Interesting insight into the mind of the Trump devotees though - an obsession with the media and how to score points against them is a fundamental concern.
Bill Mitchell I have a sense Trump is holding back on appointing women just to suck the media in so they complain about it, then BAMM, women appointments.
Interesting strategy. Trump reacts to media reports, crisis in his team and changes tack will be the story.
Interesting insight into the mind of the Trump devotees though - an obsession with the media and how to score points against them is a fundamental concern.
They also seem to be obsessed with 'liberals' and their reactions to things.
On Kanye, it's really funny how things have gone as far as he is concerned. His wife Kim is a Hilary Clinton and BLM supporter. I wonder what she makes of his comments.
It really isn't - look at the Palace of Westminster refurb....
In a so-called age of austerity it's huge. The Westminster refurb. is obscenely expensive.
Try to do anything non-domestic or commerical refurb wise, even a couple of rooms, and you'll spend a few million. The numbers of different contractors involved in even tiny projects now are huge.
Did they go to the private sector to pay for it? I am sure Sports Direct would have sponsored the summer open house.
In the old days they used to marry off members of the family to pay for it.
Am slightly puzzled at the Brexiteer's opposition to a second referendum on the result of the Brexit terms - what if the Government find that the best deal they can get includes only marginal controls on free movement - wouldn't Leavers then want a second referendum?
Very good point. However, I suspect that whatever the May government agrees will be met with noisy accusations of betrayal. It's gone beyond mere EU membership now - the forces of Leave want to foist their own version of Trumpism upon the United Kingdom. That's their next project.
The Coming of the Fourth Reich.
Fifth, surely Trumpland is the fourth.
If the Holy Roman Empire was the First Reich, what does that make the original Roman Empire?
I thought HRE was the second and Roman Empire was the first?
Edit looking at it I'm wrong. I suppose the HRE was German more than Roman and the original Roman Empire wasn't German so is ignored.
That would be my take too but still, it tried to appropriate Rome's heritage long after the HRE ceased to be 'Roman' in any meaningful sense.
Then again, it wasn't just the Axis which had trouble with numbering: there's no good reason to call World War II the second world war.
It should be the Third World War (taking into account the War of Spanish Succession)
I pretty much agree with this as it is clearly, strategically, the 'right' thing for your party to do. It is however a great shame that it ends up being European-ism, rather than Liberalism that is your parties raison d'etre - those of us who are liberal leavers are finding other parties which potentially weakens the cause of liberalism overall.
I agree, I always used to vote Lib Dem, but ever since Nick Clegg became leader there has been a shift from the centre ground and the traditions of liberalism. Nowadays I lump the Lib Dems in with the likes of the Greens and Corbyn's new old Labour. i.e. Protest groups playing politics.
Am slightly puzzled at the Brexiteer's opposition to a second referendum on the result of the Brexit terms - what if the Government find that the best deal they can get includes only marginal controls on free movement - wouldn't Leavers then want a second referendum?
Very good point. However, I suspect that whatever the May government agrees will be met with noisy accusations of betrayal. It's gone beyond mere EU membership now - the forces of Leave want to foist their own version of Trumpism upon the United Kingdom. That's their next project.
The Coming of the Fourth Reich.
Fifth, surely Trumpland is the fourth.
If the Holy Roman Empire was the First Reich, what does that make the original Roman Empire?
I thought HRE was the second and Roman Empire was the first?
Edit looking at it I'm wrong. I suppose the HRE was German more than Roman and the original Roman Empire wasn't German so is ignored.
That would be my take too but still, it tried to appropriate Rome's heritage long after the HRE ceased to be 'Roman' in any meaningful sense.
Then again, it wasn't just the Axis which had trouble with numbering: there's no good reason to call World War II the second world war.
It should be the Third World War (taking into account the War of Spanish Succession)
Make that four to allow for the Seven Years War.
Edit: you could make a case for the American Revolutionary War too, which was fought in Europe, Southern Africa and India as well as America.
Mike's so sweet whenever he desperately clings to a tiny nugget of hope for a Lib Dem recovery. Yes, Mike. The route back for the Lib Dems will be to be the only party telling the electorate to go fuck themselves.
It really isn't - look at the Palace of Westminster refurb....
In a so-called age of austerity it's huge. The Westminster refurb. is obscenely expensive.
Try to do anything non-domestic or commerical refurb wise, even a couple of rooms, and you'll spend a few million. The numbers of different contractors involved in even tiny projects now are huge.
My honest reaction when I heard the 369m figure was 'is that all'.
And isnt it going to be paid for using the Crown's money anyway - from the estates?
And just wait until you get into approved contractors and framework agreements. A firm I once worked for were contracted years ago for a job at Buck House. Of the 40 or so people put forward to work on it. I think about 3 got approval.
Bill Mitchell I have a sense Trump is holding back on appointing women just to suck the media in so they complain about it, then BAMM, women appointments.
It will be interesting to see what happens. I think Trump will either be a disaster or a great President. Looking forward to January.
Expectation management. Obama failed miserably to live up to the great expectations bestowed on him by an enthralled media and has as a result, appeared a lesser President in retrospect. Don’t know if Trump will be a disaster or great, but I doubt he’ll turn out to be the devil incarnate as painted by some and that will benefit how his time as POTUS is perceived. .
Bill Mitchell I have a sense Trump is holding back on appointing women just to suck the media in so they complain about it, then BAMM, women appointments.
It will be interesting to see what happens. I think Trump will either be a disaster or a great President. Looking forward to January.
Expectation management. Obama failed miserably to live up to the great expectations bestowed on him by an enthralled media and has as a result, appeared a lesser President in retrospect. Don’t know if Trump will be a disaster or great, but I doubt he’ll will turn out to be the devil incarnate as painted by some and that will benefit how his time as POTUS is perceived. .
To that extent, I felt a bit sorry for Obama. The expectations were absurdly high when he won.
Bill Mitchell I have a sense Trump is holding back on appointing women just to suck the media in so they complain about it, then BAMM, women appointments.
It will be interesting to see what happens. I think Trump will either be a disaster or a great President. Looking forward to January.
Expectation management. Obama failed miserably to live up to the great expectations bestowed on him by an enthralled media and has as a result, appeared a lesser President in retrospect. Don’t know if Trump will be a disaster or great, but I doubt he’ll will turn out to be the devil incarnate as painted by some and that will benefit how his time as POTUS is perceived. .
To that extent, I felt a bit sorry for Obama. The expectations were absurdly high when he won.
Somehow I doubt Trump is sitting by the phone waiting for the Nobel Peace Prize committee to call.
Expectation management. Obama failed miserably to live up to the great expectations bestowed on him by an enthralled media and has as a result, appeared a lesser President in retrospect. Don’t know if Trump will be a disaster or great, but I doubt he’ll turn out to be the devil incarnate as painted by some and that will benefit how his time as POTUS is perceived. .
Indeed when people seriously compare him to Hitler all Trump has to do is play golf for four years and let Pence run the country and Trump will surpass their expectations.
Indeed when people seriously compare him to Hitler all Trump has to do is play golf for four years and let Pence run the country and Trump will surpass their expectations.
Not if he appoints Goebbels and Himmler to his cabinet
He's looking for a new job. Flattery doesn't get you everywhere, but it helps.
Bit embarrassing really. You can see the thought process: 'Nigel got a load of attention by cosying up to a big American politico, so now I'd better do it.'
Indeed when people seriously compare him to Hitler all Trump has to do is play golf for four years and let Pence run the country and Trump will surpass their expectations.
Not if he appoints Goebbels and Himmler to his cabinet
Mr. Jonathan, Brown borrowed £153bn during a boom, then left the Coalition the biggest deficit in history. Almost every measure to reduce the deficit has been opposed by Labour.
If Labour want to re-enact Ed Miliband's savaging in Yorkshire at the next election, I daresay the other parties won't mind one bit.
Mr. Jonathan, Brown borrowed £153bn during a boom, then left the Coalition the biggest deficit in history. Almost every measure to reduce the deficit has been opposed by Labour.
If Labour want to re-enact Ed Miliband's savaging in Yorkshire at the next election, I daresay the other parties won't mind one bit.
May doesnt care about deficits. Borrowing for Brexit, borrowing for Buck House. Someone in the Treasury has clearly said, "screw it lets go for it".
Am slightly puzzled at the Brexiteer's opposition to a second referendum on the result of the Brexit terms - what if the Government find that the best deal they can get includes only marginal controls on free movement - wouldn't Leavers then want a second referendum?
Very good point. However, I suspect that whatever the May government agrees will be met with noisy accusations of betrayal. It's gone beyond mere EU membership now - the forces of Leave want to foist their own version of Trumpism upon the United Kingdom. That's their next project.
The Coming of the Fourth Reich.
Fifth, surely Trumpland is the fourth.
If the Holy Roman Empire was the First Reich, what does that make the original Roman Empire?
I thought HRE was the second and Roman Empire was the first?
Edit looking at it I'm wrong. I suppose the HRE was German more than Roman and the original Roman Empire wasn't German so is ignored.
That would be my take too but still, it tried to appropriate Rome's heritage long after the HRE ceased to be 'Roman' in any meaningful sense.
Then again, it wasn't just the Axis which had trouble with numbering: there's no good reason to call World War II the second world war.
It should be the Third World War (taking into account the War of Spanish Succession)
But what then of the
Seven Years War? French Revolutionary / Napoleonic Wars? Thirty Years War?
For what it's worth, I think that the Seven Years and Napoleonic should certainly count. The geographic limits of the other two place question marks above them for me although they did bring in most if not all of the major European states.
First they came for the toblerones and Ibdid not bspeak out because they are overpriced and minging, then they came for the maltesers and I was all like, screw you I'm taking up arms.
Am slightly puzzled at the Brexiteer's opposition to a second referendum on the result of the Brexit terms - what if the Government find that the best deal they can get includes only marginal controls on free movement - wouldn't Leavers then want a second referendum?
Very good point. However, I suspect that whatever the May government agrees will be met with noisy accusations of betrayal. It's gone beyond mere EU membership now - the forces of Leave want to foist their own version of Trumpism upon the United Kingdom. That's their next project.
The Coming of the Fourth Reich.
Fifth, surely Trumpland is the fourth.
If the Holy Roman Empire was the First Reich, what does that make the original Roman Empire?
I thought HRE was the second and Roman Empire was the first?
Edit looking at it I'm wrong. I suppose the HRE was German more than Roman and the original Roman Empire wasn't German so is ignored.
That would be my take too but still, it tried to appropriate Rome's heritage long after the HRE ceased to be 'Roman' in any meaningful sense.
Then again, it wasn't just the Axis which had trouble with numbering: there's no good reason to call World War II the second world war.
It should be the Third World War (taking into account the War of Spanish Succession)
But what then of the
Seven Years War? French Revolutionary / Napoleonic Wars? Thirty Years War?
For what it's worth, I think that the Seven Years and Napoleonic should certainly count. The geographic limits of the other two place question marks above them for me although they did bring in most if not all of the major European states.
Perhaps we should just rename them the First World War and the Second World War of the 20th Century.
First they came for the toblerones and Ibdid not bspeak out because they are overpriced and minging, then they came for the maltesers and I was all like, screw you I'm taking up arms.
1. We have already decided to leave in a referendum. A second referendum could only delay an exit on particular terms until better terms are found. Unless the second referendum is specifically "Don't bother".
2. The EU process doesn't allow for Britain's continuation in the EU after Article 50 is triggered, but we won't know the terms until just before the two year exit deadline. Possibly just days before that deadline. The last referendum was a vote for a pig in a poke. We own that pig now and it has a high risk of being a very crap pig, but we knew that, or should have known that, when we voted for it.
3. The EU is a multilateral body. It can't afford a member unilaterally to threaten exit and demand better terms. Membership needs to be on standardised terms, a point that wasn't sufficiently appreciated about Cameron's "renogotiation". If we go back, it will either be on the same terms as before or without the opt-outs.
Incidentally, the Lib Dems didn't demand a second vote on Iraq after the invasion was launched. They were consistent in their opposition to Britain's participation in it. This time their consistent theme could be that Britain needs to be integrated with the EU. The EU won't go away after we leave, nor will the need for a British relationship with it. Ironically, the EU will never be more dominant in our affairs than when we leave it.
Sessions is a terrible pick. I really hope that this isn't going to happen. Personally I think Trump is colourblind in terms of race, but that means he doesn't see it as a big deal and doesn't see appointing someone like Sessions who isn't colourblind as a big deal, when it is.
One of Trump SCOTUS shortlist judges filed consensual homosexual activity at home in the same bracket as incest and bestiality. In an actual judgement (that was overturned by SCOTUS).
As fun as it is to watch those anti-Trump demos on which white people carry placards slagging off white people, and to read white columnists raging against white rage, and to see white women in the press tearing their hair out over white women who voted for Trump, it’s time to take down the modern left’s obsession with white people.
For following Trump’s shock ascendancy to the White House – another WHITE institution – it’s become clear what all this ‘white people’ talk really represents. It’s not a radical, post-racist attempt to expose where power lies in society and discuss how it might be challenged. On the contrary, it’s a racially charged, dehumanising expression of class contempt by well-connected white people, and some non-whites, for the wrong kind of white people: bad whites; unthinking whites; the dim or undeserving poor; or what used to be known, in times when vile elitism at least had the decency to be honest, as ‘the underclass’.
1. We have already decided to leave in a referendum. A second referendum could only delay an exit on particular terms until better terms are found. Unless the second referendum is specifically "Don't bother".
2. The EU process doesn't allow for Britain's continuation in the EU after Article 50 is triggered, but we won't know the terms until just before the two year exit deadline. Possibly just days before that deadline. The last referendum was a vote for a pig in a poke. We own that pig now and it has a high risk of being a very crap pig, but we knew that, or should have known that, when we voted for it.
3. The EU is a multilateral body. It can't afford a member unilaterally to threaten exit and demand better terms. Members needs to be on standardised terms, a point that wasn't sufficiently appreciated about Cameron's "renogotiation". If we go back, it will either be on the same terms as before or without the opt-outs.
Incidentally, the Lib Dems didn't demand a second vote on Iraq after the invasion was launched. They were consistent in their opposition to Britain's participation in it. This time their consistent theme could be that Britain needs to be integrated with the EU. The EU won't go away after we leave, nor will the need for a British relationship with it. Ironically, the EU will never be more dominant in our affairs than when we leave it.
Point two is now being argued, and the Supreme Court is expected to ask the ECJ for a ruling on that according to some.
Sessions is a terrible pick. I really hope that this isn't going to happen. Personally I think Trump is colourblind in terms of race, but that means he doesn't see it as a big deal and doesn't see appointing someone like Sessions who isn't colourblind as a big deal, when it is.
One of Trump SCOTUS shortlist judges filed consensual homosexual activity at home in the same bracket as incest and bestiality. In an actual judgement (that was overturned by SCOTUS).
One of Trump SCOTUS shortlist judges filed consensual homosexual activity at home in the same bracket as incest and bestiality. In an actual judgement (that was overturned by SCOTUS).
Indeed when people seriously compare him to Hitler all Trump has to do is play golf for four years and let Pence run the country and Trump will surpass their expectations.
Not if he appoints Goebbels and Himmler to his cabinet
@faisalislam: October: "We will trigger Article 50 before the end of March " November: "We stand ready to trigger Article 50 by end of March" #brexitology
Comments
@JonathanPieNews it frees up three shelves for condoms and pot noodles?
Amused..
Within one year only Theresa May may be left in Office
He dangles Romney like a shiny object re SoS, then appoints two tough guys in tough guy jobs - if reports are right. And General Flynn is confirmed as NSA chap too.
I see David Axelrod has tweeted his support for The Donald today re making appointments timetable. Funny old world.
O Tannenbaum
I have a sense Trump is holding back on appointing women just to suck the media in so they complain about it, then BAMM, women appointments.
"Pompeo opposes closing Guantánamo Bay detention camp.[12] After a 2013 visit to the prison, Pompeo said, of the prisoners who were on hunger strike, "It looked to me like a lot of them had put on weight." " wikipedia
As I said the other day, though, quite a few people who usually lean Labour nonetheless think May has been not too bad so far - Brexit but not bonkers - though they do wonder what she'll deliver.
As for the idea that the constituencies the Tories took from the Lib Dems that voted Leave will remain Tory, you seem to have forgotten that one quite possible scenario is for the Remain vote to coalesce around the Lib Dems while the Leave vote gets split by other parties. There are Leavers on the left who will never vote Tory. And there are Remainers who would normally vote Tory but feel strongly enough to switch their vote.
The other thing that doesn't seem to have entered anyone's head is that the Lib Dem stance on Europe arises out of conviction that we are actually better off in. It isn't just focus group positioning, it's actually pretty fundamental to most of the people in the party. So that's what the Lib Dems will campaign to do. No chance of us changing our minds. Bit like Iraq really - vilified at the time for our stance, but vindicated afterwards. Some are vilifying us now. Maybe we will be vindicated later on the EU too.
I'm not laughing anymore.
More significantly, amongst my large group of 20s friends (all of whom voted Remain) there are at most 2 or 3 labour voters. Mostly NOTA, Greens, Lib Dems and even a few Tories.....
When Labour is brought up it is with derision, even by those 2 or 3.
Ok then...
Kanye West now saying he'd vote Trump
http://www.nydailynews.com/entertainment/gossip/kanye-west-voted-trump-voted-article-1.2878369?utm_content=buffer60574&utm_medium=social&utm_source=twitter.com&utm_campaign=NYDailyNewsTw
My honest reaction when I heard the 369m figure was 'is that all'.
And isnt it going to be paid for using the Crown's money anyway - from the estates?
In the old days they used to marry off members of the family to pay for it.
On Kanye, it's really funny how things have gone as far as he is concerned. His wife Kim is a Hilary Clinton and BLM supporter. I wonder what she makes of his comments.
Yes, Mike. The route back for the Lib Dems will be to be the only party telling the electorate to go fuck themselves.
Edit: you could make a case for the American Revolutionary War too, which was fought in Europe, Southern Africa and India as well as America.
Washington Examiner
David Axelrod scolds critics of Donald Trump's transition progress https://t.co/jOWERD9e4F https://t.co/psYO1xj9CU
Labour on a 3 line whip apparently
If Labour want to re-enact Ed Miliband's savaging in Yorkshire at the next election, I daresay the other parties won't mind one bit.
Seven Years War?
French Revolutionary / Napoleonic Wars?
Thirty Years War?
For what it's worth, I think that the Seven Years and Napoleonic should certainly count. The geographic limits of the other two place question marks above them for me although they did bring in most if not all of the major European states.
Perhaps we should just rename them the First World War and the Second World War of the 20th Century.
think trump may be the saner of the two
1. We have already decided to leave in a referendum. A second referendum could only delay an exit on particular terms until better terms are found. Unless the second referendum is specifically "Don't bother".
2. The EU process doesn't allow for Britain's continuation in the EU after Article 50 is triggered, but we won't know the terms until just before the two year exit deadline. Possibly just days before that deadline. The last referendum was a vote for a pig in a poke. We own that pig now and it has a high risk of being a very crap pig, but we knew that, or should have known that, when we voted for it.
3. The EU is a multilateral body. It can't afford a member unilaterally to threaten exit and demand better terms. Membership needs to be on standardised terms, a point that wasn't sufficiently appreciated about Cameron's "renogotiation". If we go back, it will either be on the same terms as before or without the opt-outs.
Incidentally, the Lib Dems didn't demand a second vote on Iraq after the invasion was launched. They were consistent in their opposition to Britain's participation in it. This time their consistent theme could be that Britain needs to be integrated with the EU. The EU won't go away after we leave, nor will the need for a British relationship with it. Ironically, the EU will never be more dominant in our affairs than when we leave it.
All kicking off in Gibraltar's territorial waters as Spain decides to piss off the Royal Navy. https://t.co/ytciC0G0XW
As fun as it is to watch those anti-Trump demos on which white people carry placards slagging off white people, and to read white columnists raging against white rage, and to see white women in the press tearing their hair out over white women who voted for Trump, it’s time to take down the modern left’s obsession with white people.
For following Trump’s shock ascendancy to the White House – another WHITE institution – it’s become clear what all this ‘white people’ talk really represents. It’s not a radical, post-racist attempt to expose where power lies in society and discuss how it might be challenged. On the contrary, it’s a racially charged, dehumanising expression of class contempt by well-connected white people, and some non-whites, for the wrong kind of white people: bad whites; unthinking whites; the dim or undeserving poor; or what used to be known, in times when vile elitism at least had the decency to be honest, as ‘the underclass’.
http://www.spiked-online.com/newsite/article/everyone-needs-to-stop-talking-about-white-people-trump/19008#.WC8MiFmnxTf
October: "We will trigger Article 50 before the end of March "
November: "We stand ready to trigger Article 50 by end of March"
#brexitology