Andrew Neil @afneil If the EU can't do a free trade deal with Canada or the UK, what's the future of the Customs Union? It's depressing. https://twitter.com/pcol
I wish the EU well, but they need to raise their game.
The Walloons will be "encouraged". This is all theatrics, and Namur is playing games for domestic show. Is it such a bad thing that trade deals go through national parliaments? It's not efficient, but it is democratic, isn't it?
Not really. The big advantage of the EU is that it is multilateral. If we have to deal with 28 separate European states where would be?
(Not an entirely rhetorical question -it's what's implied by the Brexit)
The EU doesn't disappear just because we leave, we deal with one EU Canada and the USA etc while confined within the EU we can't deal with anyone outside of it.
What I meant, but was in a rush to say it, is that Wallonia is acting like a brexiting Britain with the additional inconvenience to the EU of hanging around. If all 28 countries decide they would like to do things differently, or Brexit, Nexit, Frexit, Dexit etc, you end up with chaos. Multilateral is the sensible way to go.
If all 28 countries have to appeal to the lowest common denominator then you end up with this chaos.
Bilateral is the sensible way to go.
My brother, who knows more about these things than me, says that the Walloons might have a point, and points me to this article:
Andrew Neil @afneil If the EU can't do a free trade deal with Canada or the UK, what's the future of the Customs Union? It's depressing. https://twitter.com/pcol
I wish the EU well, but they need to raise their game.
The Walloons will be "encouraged". This is all theatrics, and Namur is playing games for domestic show. Is it such a bad thing that trade deals go through national parliaments? It's not efficient, but it is democratic, isn't it?
Good. Arrangements with the UK could also be vetoed. We should start looking up the WTO rules.
You mean the WTO schedules that need to be negotiated? With the EU. And 160 other states.
Quite. Joining the WTO is normally a very long process. Of all the blind assumptions of the Brexit mob, the idea that the worst case outcome in terms of trade after a hard Brexit is WTO status is perhaps the most dangerous. Brexit comes in still harder varieties.
There would be no accession process required for the UK as they are already a full member of the WTO...
After the UK leaves the EU they will remain a full member of the WTO.
It is also not possible to expel or suspend members so the UK will definitely remain a full member post Brexit.
The UK is a member of the WTO but its schedules which set the tariffs and rules for trade are held by the EU. You qualify for membership of the WTO when all 160 members agree your schedules.When we leave the EU we will be in the anomalous situation of being a member but unqualified for membership because we don't have any independent schedules. In practice these will have to be negotiated from scratch. We'll need to wrap it up quickly with people who are already inside the club and who will certainly take advantage of our weak negotiating position. And it won't just be the EU driving a hard bargain.
To my mind this is a more fraught issue than our EU treaty.
What happens any time a nation within the WTO wants to change its schedule?
We could presumably initially just posit the same schedule as the EU has.
There was a time when the liberals would have swept up a seat like this, but I suppose if you're starting from an impossibly low bar, coming a distant second is a triumph to some. Let's see how the numbers stack up at the next GE.
The Tories are still enjoying a bonus from their years in Coalition, Mr Jason. They just need a little bit longer governing by themselves, and going from one disaster to another, and the Lib Dems will take any seat from them that you care to name.
Oh good grief. What a load of guff.
For example, look at Poole.
Tory vote of more tan 50%.
Libs slipped back from 2nd to 4th in 2010.
UKIP share of 16.8%, most of which will be going Tory next time.
I can confidently assert that LDs will not win Poole in either of our lifetimes...
Wasn't there a local by election there just recently?
Andrew Neil @afneil If the EU can't do a free trade deal with Canada or the UK, what's the future of the Customs Union? It's depressing. https://twitter.com/pcol
I wish the EU well, but they need to raise their game.
The Walloons will be "encouraged". This is all theatrics, and Namur is playing games for domestic show. Is it such a bad thing that trade deals go through national parliaments? It's not efficient, but it is democratic, isn't it?
Not really. The big advantage of the EU is that it is multilateral. If we have to deal with 28 separate European states where would be?
(Not an entirely rhetorical question -it's what's implied by the Brexit)
The EU doesn't disappear just because we leave, we deal with one EU Canada and the USA etc while confined within the EU we can't deal with anyone outside of it.
What I meant, but was in a rush to say it, is that Wallonia is acting like a brexiting Britain with the additional inconvenience to the EU of hanging around. If all 28 countries decide they would like to do things differently, or Brexit, Nexit, Frexit, Dexit etc, you end up with chaos. Multilateral is the sensible way to go.
If all 28 countries have to appeal to the lowest common denominator then you end up with this chaos.
Bilateral is the sensible way to go.
My brother, who knows more about these things than me, says that the Walloons might have a point, and points me to this article:
Andrew Neil @afneil If the EU can't do a free trade deal with Canada or the UK, what's the future of the Customs Union? It's depressing. https://twitter.com/pcol
I wish the EU well, but they need to raise their game.
sn't it?
Good. Arrangements with the UK could also be vetoed. We should start looking up the WTO rules.
You mean the WTO schedules that need to be negotiated? With the EU. And 160 other states.
Quite. Joining the WTO is normally a very long process. Of all the blind assumptions of the Brexit mob, the idea that the worst case outcome in terms of trade after a hard Brexit is WTO status is perhaps the most dangerous. Brexit comes in still harder varieties.
There would be no accession process required for the UK as they are already a full member of the WTO...
After the UK leaves the EU they will remain a full member of the WTO.
It is also not possible to expel or suspend members so the UK will definitely remain a full member post Brexit.
The UK is a member of the WTO but its schedules which set the tariffs and rules for trade are held by the EU. You qualify for membership of the WTO when all 160 members agree your schedules.When we leave the EU we will be in the anomalous situation of being a member but unqualified for membership because we don't have any independent schedules. In practice these will have to be negotiated from scratch. We'll need to wrap it up quickly with people who are already inside the club and who will certainly take advantage of our weak negotiating position. And it won't just be the EU driving a hard bargain.
To my mind this is a more fraught issue than our EU treaty.
What happens any time a nation within the WTO wants to change its schedule?
We could presumably initially just posit the same schedule as the EU has.
I'm sure we would posit that. Other countries would have to agree by consensus. They collectively don't have a reason to do so, when they can improve their position versus the UK through negotiation.
Andrew Neil @afneil If the EU can't do a free trade deal with Canada or the UK, what's the future of the Customs Union? It's depressing. https://twitter.com/pcol
I wish the EU well, but they need to raise their game.
The Walloons will be "encouraged". This is all theatrics, and Namur is playing games for domestic show. Is it such a bad thing that trade deals go through national parliaments? It's not efficient, but it is democratic, isn't it?
But Walloonia is a regional parliament. Yes it's democratic, but where does it end? Isle of Wight County Council getting a veto on the UK's trade agreements?
There would be nothing to stop us requiring the Isle of Wight getting a veto. Each nation state has its own constitutional peculiarities. Presumably In Belgium trade is a devolved competence.
Just this week they vetoed a trade deal with Portsmouth and Southampton, so The Island is in good practice already
Andrew Neil @afneil If the EU can't do a free trade deal with Canada or the UK, what's the future of the Customs Union? It's depressing. https://twitter.com/pcol
I wish the EU well, but they need to raise their game.
If they can't do a deal with a country "as nice and patient as Canada" then who can they do a deal with?
Andrew Neil @afneil If the EU can't do a free trade deal with Canada or the UK, what's the future of the Customs Union? It's depressing. https://twitter.com/pcol
I wish the EU well, but they need to raise their game.
The Walloons will be "encouraged". This is all theatrics, and Namur is playing games for domestic show. Is it such a bad thing that trade deals go through national parliaments? It's not efficient, but it is democratic, isn't it?
Good. Arrangements with the UK could also be vetoed. We should start looking up the WTO rules.
You mean the WTO schedules that need to be negotiated? With the EU. And 160 other states.
Quite. Joining the WTO is normally a very long process. Of all the blind assumptions of the Brexit mob, the idea that the worst case outcome in terms of trade after a hard Brexit is WTO status is perhaps the most dangerous. Brexit comes in still harder varieties.
There would be no accession process required for the UK as they are already a full member of the WTO...
After the UK leaves the EU they will remain a full member of the WTO.
It is also not possible to expel or suspend members so the UK will definitely remain a full member post Brexit.
The UK is a member of the WTO but its schedules which set the tariffs and rules for trade are held by the EU. You qualify for membership of the WTO when all 160 members agree your schedules.When we leave the EU we will be in the anomalous situation of being a member but unqualified for membership because we don't have any independent schedules. In practice these will have to be negotiated from scratch. We'll need to wrap it up quickly with people who are already inside the club and who will certainly take advantage of our weak negotiating position. And it won't just be the EU driving a hard bargain.
To my mind this is a more fraught issue than our EU treaty.
There was a time when the liberals would have swept up a seat like this, but I suppose if you're starting from an impossibly low bar, coming a distant second is a triumph to some. Let's see how the numbers stack up at the next GE.
The Tories are still enjoying a bonus from their years in Coalition, Mr Jason. They just need a little bit longer governing by themselves, and going from one disaster to another, and the Lib Dems will take any seat from them that you care to name.
Oh good grief. What a load of guff.
For example, look at Poole.
Tory vote of more tan 50%.
Libs slipped back from 2nd to 4th in 2010.
UKIP share of 16.8%, most of which will be going Tory next time.
I can confidently assert that LDs will not win Poole in either of our lifetimes...
Wasn't there a local by election there just recently?
In the broadstone ward - which isn't in Poole constituency...
Andrew Neil @afneil If the EU can't do a free trade deal with Canada or the UK, what's the future of the Customs Union? It's depressing. https://twitter.com/pcol
I wish the EU well, but they need to raise their game.
The Walloons will be "encouraged". This is all theatrics, and Namur is playing games for domestic show. Is it such a bad thing that trade deals go through national parliaments? It's not efficient, but it is democratic, isn't it?
Good. Arrangements with the UK could also be vetoed. We should start looking up the WTO rules.
Remembering Aberfan, 50 years ago today. It was the first time that I really didn't understand the news - how could a mountain move - and had to have my parents explain it to me.
My friend's mother was a young teacher at the school and was in the building that day. I see her regularly.
Must be an extraordinary thing to have had to live with. My Gramp worked for the NCB and helped with the rescue operation - he was in his early thirties and my mother - at the time - was a similar age to the children who died.
He never said much about it but I know the people who were there were scarred forever by it. Unimaginable tragedy - if you ever visit the remembrance graveyard the names and ages of all those children are hard to take in.
My father was a teacher, and I was 8 at the time - the age of many of the dead children. While we were safe, a long way away in Cyprus, the newspaper coverage shook people to the core. I cannot imagine what it must have been like to be there.
Registered Libertarians make up about 0.5% of all registered voters in NC, so this isn't surprising. Registrations only are meaningful to some extent for Dems and Reps.
Andrew Neil @afneil If the EU can't do a free trade deal with Canada or the UK, what's the future of the Customs Union? It's depressing. https://twitter.com/pcol
I wish the EU well, but they need to raise their game.
If they can't do a deal with a country "as nice and patient as Canada" then who can they do a deal with?
The EU actually has a pretty good record of signing trade deals (certainly better than the US pre TTIP/TPP or China). Where it fails is in regards to trade deals which require unanimity. So, Canada (which includes provisions allowing for short-term work visas for professions) requires unanimity, while South Korea (which doesn't) was done on QMV.
May's comments are significant in that #1 It's another enormous hint we're leaving the Customs Union. Which seems todate to be Hammond's resignation point. Though the later could also be Hammond's opening negotiating stance. Leaving the Customs Union also complicates the Irish Border. #2 May is relying on new free trade deals at precisely the point new free trade deals are becoming harder to secure. We're back to the contradictions of the Leave coalition. Run by a draw bridge down elite but win by drawbridge up voters. Negotiating bilateral free trade deals from a position of relative weakness is certainly possible. But the price will be opening up our markets to Foriegn competition and gutting EU health, safety, animal welfare, quality standards to an extent that will horrify Tory Remainia, the NFU and many Mail readers.
Not that I blame May for not being clear about this. The internal debate is ongoing, she's still in a honeymoon and sans another £ devaluation she needs to keep details till after #Mayday. This is also not a catastrophe of her making. But she volunteered for the job and has brutally owned Leave. We have less than 6 months to expose these choices and drive Brexit into the sand. We have less than six months to prevent #Mayday.
Today in Georgia people were waiting up to 2 hours to vote.
Republican state legislatures try to make it as hard as possible for black/poor people to vote.
The notion that America is a democracy - never mind the world's foremost one - is something of a qualitative assertion.
more a bought and paid for corporatist duopoly. And I'm no left winger.
The influence of money is one of many things that makes the US's system worse than most equivalent countries. The ability of Trump to counter that factor this year is one of the few positive things about his campaign.
May's comments are significant in that #1 It's another enormous hint we're leaving the Customs Union. Which seems todate to be Hammond's resignation point. Though the later could also be Hammond's opening negotiating stance. Leaving the Customs Union also complicates the Irish Border. #2 May is relying on new free trade deals at precisely the point new free trade deals are becoming harder to secure. We're back to the contradictions of the Leave coalition. Run by a draw bridge down elite but win by drawbridge up voters. Negotiating bilateral free trade deals from a position of relative weakness is certainly possible. But the price will be opening up our markets to Foriegn competition and gutting EU health, safety, animal welfare, quality standards to an extent that will horrify Tory Remainia, the NFU and many Mail readers.
Not that I blame May for not being clear about this. The internal debate is ongoing, she's still in a honeymoon and sans another £ devaluation she needs to keep details till after #Mayday. This is also not a catastrophe of her making. But she volunteered for the job and has brutally owned Leave. We have less than 6 months to expose these choices and drive Brexit into the sand. We have less than six months to prevent #Mayday.
I fail to see why remainers keep saying "free trade deals from a position of relative weakness" or some such thing. We are the 5th largest economy in the world.
May's comments are significant in that #1 It's another enormous hint we're leaving the Customs Union. Which seems todate to be Hammond's resignation point. Though the later could also be Hammond's opening negotiating stance. Leaving the Customs Union also complicates the Irish Border. #2 May is relying on new free trade deals at precisely the point new free trade deals are becoming harder to secure. We're back to the contradictions of the Leave coalition. Run by a draw bridge down elite but win by drawbridge up voters. Negotiating bilateral free trade deals from a position of relative weakness is certainly possible. But the price will be opening up our markets to Foriegn competition and gutting EU health, safety, animal welfare, quality standards to an extent that will horrify Tory Remainia, the NFU and many Mail readers.
Not that I blame May for not being clear about this. The internal debate is ongoing, she's still in a honeymoon and sans another £ devaluation she needs to keep details till after #Mayday. This is also not a catastrophe of her making. But she volunteered for the job and has brutally owned Leave. We have less than 6 months to expose these choices and drive Brexit into the sand. We have less than six months to prevent #Mayday.
May's comments are significant in that #1 It's another enormous hint we're leaving the Customs Union. Which seems todate to be Hammond's resignation point. Though the later could also be Hammond's opening negotiating stance. Leaving the Customs Union also complicates the Irish Border. #2 May is relying on new free trade deals at precisely the point new free trade deals are becoming harder to secure. We're back to the contradictions of the Leave coalition. Run by a draw bridge down elite but win by drawbridge up voters. Negotiating bilateral free trade deals from a position of relative weakness is certainly possible. But the price will be opening up our markets to Foriegn competition and gutting EU health, safety, animal welfare, quality standards to an extent that will horrify Tory Remainia, the NFU and many Mail readers.
Not that I blame May for not being clear about this. The internal debate is ongoing, she's still in a honeymoon and sans another £ devaluation she needs to keep details till after #Mayday. This is also not a catastrophe of her making. But she volunteered for the job and has brutally owned Leave. We have less than 6 months to expose these choices and drive Brexit into the sand. We have less than six months to prevent #Mayday.
I fail to see why remainers keep saying "free trade deals from a position of relative weakness" or some such thing. We are the 5th largest economy in the world.
Ignoring for a moment that the #Brexit devaluation has reduced us to the 6th largest economy in some metrics let me explain. We're suddenly and accidentally tearing up our existing trade relationships in part negotiated as part of the world's largest economy then launch a renegotiation of the lot precisely as the world lurches towards protectionism and at the best of voters who want more protectionism not more free trade. So my use of " relative weakness " is contestable and subjective. It is however in my view fair comment.
May's comments are significant in that #1 It's another enormous hint we're leaving the Customs Union. Which seems todate to be Hammond's resignation point. Though the later could also be Hammond's opening negotiating stance. Leaving the Customs Union also complicates the Irish Border. #2 May is relying on new free trade deals at precisely the point new free trade deals are becoming harder to secure. We're back to the contradictions of the Leave coalition. Run by a draw bridge down elite but win by drawbridge up voters. Negotiating bilateral free trade deals from a position of relative weakness is certainly possible. But the price will be opening up our markets to Foriegn competition and gutting EU health, safety, animal welfare, quality standards to an extent that will horrify Tory Remainia, the NFU and many Mail readers.
Not that I blame May for not being clear about this. The internal debate is ongoing, she's still in a honeymoon and sans another £ devaluation she needs to keep details till after #Mayday. This is also not a catastrophe of her making. But she volunteered for the job and has brutally owned Leave. We have less than 6 months to expose these choices and drive Brexit into the sand. We have less than six months to prevent #Mayday.
I fail to see why remainers keep saying "free trade deals from a position of relative weakness" or some such thing. We are the 5th largest economy in the world.
We (will) have political pressures to be seen to be making deals that our counterparties don't have. Indeed they know that the longer they hold out, the more the British government will look like a laughing stock after it took us out of the EU into the brave new world of free trade and found that nobody was interested in bilateral FTAs with us.
May's comments are significant in that #1 It's another enormous hint we're leaving the Customs Union. Which seems todate to be Hammond's resignation point. Though the later could also be Hammond's opening negotiating stance. Leaving the Customs Union also complicates the Irish Border. #2 May is relying on new free trade deals at precisely the point new free trade deals are becoming harder to secure. We're back to the contradictions of the Leave coalition. Run by a draw bridge down elite but win by drawbridge up voters. Negotiating bilateral free trade deals from a position of relative weakness is certainly possible. But the price will be opening up our markets to Foriegn competition and gutting EU health, safety, animal welfare, quality standards to an extent that will horrify Tory Remainia, the NFU and many Mail readers.
Not that I blame May for not being clear about this. The internal debate is ongoing, she's still in a honeymoon and sans another £ devaluation she needs to keep details till after #Mayday. This is also not a catastrophe of her making. But she volunteered for the job and has brutally owned Leave. We have less than 6 months to expose these choices and drive Brexit into the sand. We have less than six months to prevent #Mayday.
I fail to see why remainers keep saying "free trade deals from a position of relative weakness" or some such thing. We are the 5th largest economy in the world.
Aberfan. Didn't a BBC newscaster cry about this, for the first time ever? I remember my parents talking about it, later.
My Dad wrote a fine poem about Aberfan, in which he referenced some of the genuinely eerie, predictive dreams people had about the disaster, beforehand
Brrrr. RIP
I was four at the time, but I seem to remember it. I clearly couldn't but it must have seeped into my consciousness.
May's comments are significant in that #1 It's another enormous hint we're leaving the Customs Union. Which seems todate to be Hammond's resignation point. Though the later could also be Hammond's opening negotiating stance. Leaving the Customs Union also complicates the Irish Border. #2 May is relying on new free trade deals at precisely the point new free trade deals are becoming harder to secure. We're back to the contradictions of the Leave coalition. Run by a draw bridge down elite but win by drawbridge up voters. Negotiating bilateral free trade deals from a position of relative weakness is certainly possible. But the price will be opening up our markets to Foriegn competition and gutting EU health, safety, animal welfare, quality standards to an extent that will horrify Tory Remainia, the NFU and many Mail readers.
Not that I blame May for not being clear about this. The internal debate is ongoing, she's still in a honeymoon and sans another £ devaluation she needs to keep details till after #Mayday. This is also not a catastrophe of her making. But she volunteered for the job and has brutally owned Leave. We have less than 6 months to expose these choices and drive Brexit into the sand. We have less than six months to prevent #Mayday.
I fail to see why remainers keep saying "free trade deals from a position of relative weakness" or some such thing. We are the 5th largest economy in the world.
Ignoring for a moment that the #Brexit devaluation has reduced us to the 6th largest economy in some metrics let me explain. We're suddenly and accidentally tearing up our existing trade relationships in part negotiated as part of the world's largest economy then launch a renegotiation of the lot precisely as the world lurches towards protectionism and at the best of voters who want more protectionism not more free trade. So my use of " relative weakness " is contestable and subjective. It is however in my view fair comment.
Brexit will be a bitch. But probably a bitch we need. Bracing and Thatcherite: we will sink or swim. No more living on borrowed money. Ourselves alone.
Nations can bounce back very quickly when confronted with hard reality.
May's comments are significant in that #1 It's another enormous hint we're leaving the Customs Union. Which seems todate to be Hammond's resignation point. Though the later could also be Hammond's opening negotiating stance. Leaving the Customs Union also complicates the Irish Border. #2 May is relying on new free trade deals at precisely the point new free trade deals are becoming harder to secure. We're back to the contradictions of the Leave coalition. Run by a draw bridge down elite but win by drawbridge up voters. Negotiating bilateral free trade deals from a position of relative weakness is certainly possible. But the price will be opening up our markets to Foriegn competition and gutting EU health, safety, animal welfare, quality standards to an extent that will horrify Tory Remainia, the NFU and many Mail readers.
Not that I blame May for not being clear about this. The internal debate is ongoing, she's still in a honeymoon and sans another £ devaluation she needs to keep details till after #Mayday. This is also not a catastrophe of her making. But she volunteered for the job and has brutally owned Leave. We have less than 6 months to expose these choices and drive Brexit into the sand. We have less than six months to prevent #Mayday.
The UK has been a world leader in animal welfare since the beginning of the 19th century. There is little reason to see why this will not continue. In many cases the UK's animal welfare standards are significantly higher than the minimum required by the EU.
Today in Georgia people were waiting up to 2 hours to vote.
Republican state legislatures try to make it as hard as possible for black/poor people to vote.
The notion that America is a democracy - never mind the world's foremost one - is something of a qualitative assertion.
more a bought and paid for corporatist duopoly. And I'm no left winger.
The influence of money is one of many things that makes the US's system worse than most equivalent countries. The ability of Trump to counter that factor this year is one of the few positive things about his campaign.
Yes he was very close throughout this election which proves money and negative ads can only have so much impact on the voters and can be overcome to an extent although he still has to spend hundreds of millions.
May's comments are significant in that #1 It's another enormous hint we're leaving the Customs Union. Which seems todate to be Hammond's resignation point. Though the later could also be Hammond's opening negotiating stance. Leaving the Customs Union also complicates the Irish Border. #2 May is relying on new free trade deals at precisely the point new free trade deals are becoming harder to secure. We're back to the contradictions of the Leave coalition. Run by a draw bridge down elite but win by drawbridge up voters. Negotiating bilateral free trade deals from a position of relative weakness is certainly possible. But the price will be opening up our markets to Foriegn competition and gutting EU health, safety, animal welfare, quality standards to an extent that will horrify Tory Remainia, the NFU and many Mail readers.
Not that I blame May for not being clear about this. The internal debate is ongoing, she's still in a honeymoon and sans another £ devaluation she needs to keep details till after #Mayday. This is also not a catastrophe of her making. But she volunteered for the job and has brutally owned Leave. We have less than 6 months to expose these choices and drive Brexit into the sand. We have less than six months to prevent #Mayday.
There is no catastrophe.
Depends on your point of view. The fact (and it is a fact) that we've gone into Brexit woefully ill prepared is - at the very least - concerning.
At present we have a Gordian knot. Can't go back, can't go forward.
May's comments are significant in that #1 It's another enormous hint we're leaving the Customs Union. Which seems todate to be Hammond's resignation point. Though the later could also be Hammond's opening negotiating stance. Leaving the Customs Union also complicates the Irish Border. #2 May is relying on new free trade deals at precisely the point new free trade deals are becoming harder to secure. We're back to the contradictions of the Leave coalition. Run by a draw bridge down elite but win by drawbridge up voters. Negotiating bilateral free trade deals from a position of relative weakness is certainly possible. But the price will be opening up our markets to Foriegn competition and gutting EU health, safety, animal welfare, quality standards to an extent that will horrify Tory Remainia, the NFU and many Mail readers.
Not that I blame May for not being clear about this. The internal debate is ongoing, she's still in a honeymoon and sans another £ devaluation she needs to keep details till after #Mayday. This is also not a catastrophe of her making. But she volunteered for the job and has brutally owned Leave. We have less than 6 months to expose these choices and drive Brexit into the sand. We have less than six months to prevent #Mayday.
I fail to see why remainers keep saying "free trade deals from a position of relative weakness" or some such thing. We are the 5th largest economy in the world.
The EU is a lot bigger.
And they can't do a deal with anyone.
And I weren't talking about a deal with those dullards.
May's comments are significant in that #1 It's another enormous hint we're leaving the Customs Union. Which seems todate to be Hammond's resignation point. Though the later could also be Hammond's opening negotiating stance. Leaving the Customs Union also complicates the Irish Border. #2 May is relying on new free trade deals at precisely the point new free trade deals are becoming harder to secure. We're back to the contradictions of the Leave coalition. Run by a draw bridge down elite but win by drawbridge up voters. Negotiating bilateral free trade deals from a position of relative weakness is certainly possible. But the price will be opening up our markets to Foriegn competition and gutting EU health, safety, animal welfare, quality standards to an extent that will horrify Tory Remainia, the NFU and many Mail readers.
Not that I blame May for not being clear about this. The internal debate is ongoing, she's still in a honeymoon and sans another £ devaluation she needs to keep details till after #Mayday. This is also not a catastrophe of her making. But she volunteered for the job and has brutally owned Leave. We have less than 6 months to expose these choices and drive Brexit into the sand. We have less than six months to prevent #Mayday.
The UK has been a world leader in animal welfare since the beginning of the 19th century. There is little reason to see why this will not continue. In many cases the UK's animal welfare standards are significantly higher than the minimum required by the EU.
Yes I know. So how is ' Free Trade ' with a load of countries with much lower standards and thus cheaper products going to work ? Once you ban Slavery or Heroin there is no such thing as Free Trade. It's all relative and a trade off with other cultural values.
May's comments are significant in that #1 It's another enormous hint we're leaving the Customs Union. Which seems todate to be Hammond's resignation point. Though the later could also be Hammond's opening negotiating stance. Leaving the Customs Union also complicates the Irish Border. #2 May is relying on new free trade deals at precisely the point new free trade deals are becoming harder to secure. We're back to the contradictions of the Leave coalition. Run by a draw bridge down elite but win by drawbridge up voters. Negotiating bilateral free trade deals from a position of relative weakness is certainly possible. But the price will be opening up our markets to Foriegn competition and gutting EU health, safety, animal welfare, quality standards to an extent that will horrify Tory Remainia, the NFU and many Mail readers.
Not that I blame May for not being clear about this. The internal debate is ongoing, she's still in a honeymoon and sans another £ devaluation she needs to keep details till after #Mayday. This is also not a catastrophe of her making. But she volunteered for the job and has brutally owned Leave. We have less than 6 months to expose these choices and drive Brexit into the sand. We have less than six months to prevent #Mayday.
The UK has been a world leader in animal welfare since the beginning of the 19th century. There is little reason to see why this will not continue. In many cases the UK's animal welfare standards are significantly higher than the minimum required by the EU.
If we want trade deals with countries like the US and China we will have to agree to the import of meat and meat-based products from animals which have not been raised to EU standards. As YS says, we will be negotiating from a position of relative weakness with countries that do not need a deal with us.
May's comments are significant in that #1 It's another enormous hint we're leaving the Customs Union. Which seems todate to be Hammond's resignation point. Though the later could also be Hammond's opening negotiating stance. Leaving the Customs Union also complicates the Irish Border. #2 May is relying on new free trade deals at precisely the point new free trade deals are becoming harder to secure. We're back to the contradictions of the Leave coalition. Run by a draw bridge down elite but win by drawbridge up voters. Negotiating bilateral free trade deals from a position of relative weakness is certainly possible. But the price will be opening up our markets to Foriegn competition and gutting EU health, safety, animal welfare, quality standards to an extent that will horrify Tory Remainia, the NFU and many Mail readers.
Not that I blame May for not being clear about this. The internal debate is ongoing, she's still in a honeymoon and sans another £ devaluation she needs to keep details till after #Mayday. This is also not a catastrophe of her making. But she volunteered for the job and has brutally owned Leave. We have less than 6 months to expose these choices and drive Brexit into the sand. We have less than six months to prevent #Mayday.
There is no catastrophe.
Depends on your point of view. The fact (and it is a fact) that we've gone into Brexit woefully ill prepared is - at the very least - concerning.
At present we have a Gordian knot. Can't go back, can't go forward.
Brexit is still, morally and democratically, the correct option. I suspect you agree, deep down.
Certainly when you see the shysters currently running the EU, you remember why it happened. Juncker has much to answer the for IMO.
But the problem remains, Brexit is woefully ill defined. It could mean anything from the status quo to a very unBritish xenophobic isolationism.
The point is we just don't know. And we should know.
May's comments are significant in that #1 It's another enormous hint we're leaving the Customs Union. Which seems todate to be Hammond's resignation point. Though the later could also be Hammond's opening negotiating stance. Leaving the Customs Union also complicates the Irish Border. #2 May is relying on new free trade deals at precisely the point new free trade deals are becoming harder to secure. We're back to the contradictions of the Leave coalition. Run by a draw bridge down elite but win by drawbridge up voters. Negotiating bilateral free trade deals from a position of relative weakness is certainly possible. But the price will be opening up our markets to Foriegn competition and gutting EU health, safety, animal welfare, quality standards to an extent that will horrify Tory Remainia, the NFU and many Mail readers.
Not that I blame May for not being clear about this. The internal debate is ongoing, she's still in a honeymoon and sans another £ devaluation she needs to keep details till after #Mayday. This is also not a catastrophe of her making. But she volunteered for the job and has brutally owned Leave. We have less than 6 months to expose these choices and drive Brexit into the sand. We have less than six months to prevent #Mayday.
There is no catastrophe.
Depends on your point of view. The fact (and it is a fact) that we've gone into Brexit woefully ill prepared is - at the very least - concerning.
At present we have a Gordian knot. Can't go back, can't go forward.
Your knowledge of classics is woeful. Ο Μεγας Αλεξανδρος. Or Alexander the great to you cut the gordian knot. Because he was told it was an unsolvable problem on how to untie it, he took out his sword and smote it. Problem solved.
May's comments are significant in that #1 It's another enormous hint we're leaving the Customs Union. Which seems todate to be Hammond's resignation point. Though the later could also be Hammond's opening negotiating stance. Leaving the Customs Union also complicates the Irish Border. #2 May is relying on new free trade deals at precisely the point new free trade deals are becoming harder to secure. We're back to the contradictions of the Leave coalition. Run by a draw bridge down elite but win by drawbridge up voters. Negotiating bilateral free trade deals from a position of relative weakness is certainly possible. But the price will be opening up our markets to Foriegn competition and gutting EU health, safety, animal welfare, quality standards to an extent that will horrify Tory Remainia, the NFU and many Mail readers.
Not that I blame May for not being clear about this. The internal debate is ongoing, she's still in a honeymoon and sans another £ devaluation she needs to keep details till after #Mayday. This is also not a catastrophe of her making. But she volunteered for the job and has brutally owned Leave. We have less than 6 months to expose these choices and drive Brexit into the sand. We have less than six months to prevent #Mayday.
There is no catastrophe.
We don't agree and clearly never will. I was trying to tease out the current politics. My view is we are heading for #Mayday. The current polling for the Conservatives and difficulty of dealing with a Remainer parliament who's mandate has been superceded points to May invoking A50 next March then announcing a dissolution resolution the same day. The Castrovalva of Xenophobic post truth effluent that was the Leave event is unravelling. But not unravelling anywhere near fast enough imho to prevent #Mayday. I was arguing europhiles need to up our game and pray for bigger " events " that we've currently had. May needs #Mayday in order to confront the hard choices of Brexit but can only achieve #Mayday if those hard choices come after #Mayday. The clock ticks. The games afoot.
May's comments are significant in that #1 It's another enormous hint we're leaving the Customs Union. Which seems todate to be Hammond's resignation point. Though the later could also be Hammond's opening negotiating stance. Leaving the Customs Union also complicates the Irish Border. #2 May is relying on new free trade deals at precisely the point new free trade deals are becoming harder to secure. We're back to the contradictions of the Leave coalition. Run by a draw bridge down elite but win by drawbridge up voters. Negotiating bilateral free trade deals from a position of relative weakness is certainly possible. But the price will be opening up our markets to Foriegn competition and gutting EU health, safety, animal welfare, quality standards to an extent that will horrify Tory Remainia, the NFU and many Mail readers.
Not that I blame May for not being clear about this. The internal debate is ongoing, she's still in a honeymoon and sans another £ devaluation she needs to keep details till after #Mayday. This is also not a catastrophe of her making. But she volunteered for the job and has brutally owned Leave. We have less than 6 months to expose these choices and drive Brexit into the sand. We have less than six months to prevent #Mayday.
There is no catastrophe.
Depends on your point of view. The fact (and it is a fact) that we've gone into Brexit woefully ill prepared is - at the very least - concerning.
At present we have a Gordian knot. Can't go back, can't go forward.
Your knowledge of classics is woeful. Ο Μεγας Αλεξανδρος. Or Alexander the great to you cut the gordian knot. Because he was told it was an unsolvable problem on how to untie it, he took out his sword and smote it. Problem solved.
I am currently in Canada doing deals that will hopefully generate a little bit of cash for the Chancellor of the Exchequer. Everyone asks about Brexit. They are generally amused, more than anything else.
May's comments are significant in that #1 It's another enormous hint we're leaving the Customs Union. Which seems todate to be Hammond's resignation point. Though the later could also be Hammond's opening negotiating stance. Leaving the Customs Union also complicates the Irish Border. #2 May is relying on new free trade deals at precisely the point new free trade deals are becoming harder to secure. We're back to the contradictions of the Leave coalition. Run by a draw bridge down elite but win by drawbridge up voters. Negotiating bilateral free trade deals from a position of relative weakness is certainly possible. But the price will be opening up our markets to Foriegn competition and gutting EU health, safety, animal welfare, quality standards to an extent that will horrify Tory Remainia, the NFU and many Mail readers.
Not that I blame May for not being clear about this. The internal debate is ongoing, she's still in a honeymoon and sans another £ devaluation she needs to keep details till after #Mayday. This is also not a catastrophe of her making. But she volunteered for the job and has brutally owned Leave. We have less than 6 months to expose these choices and drive Brexit into the sand. We have less than six months to prevent #Mayday.
There is no catastrophe.
Depends on your point of view. The fact (and it is a fact) that we've gone into Brexit woefully ill prepared is - at the very least - concerning.
At present we have a Gordian knot. Can't go back, can't go forward.
Your knowledge of classics is woeful. Ο Μεγας Αλεξανδρος. Or Alexander the great to you cut the gordian knot. Because he was told it was an unsolvable problem on how to untie it, he took out his sword and smote it. Problem solved.
You ignoramus.
I love you too. As we discussed earlier this week, Theresa May does not have a sword.
May's comments are significant in that #1 It's another enormous hint we're leaving the Customs Union. Which seems todate to be Hammond's resignation point. Though the later could also be Hammond's opening negotiating stance. Leaving the Customs Union also complicates the Irish Border. #2 May is relying on new free trade deals at precisely the point new free trade deals are becoming harder to secure. We're back to the contradictions of the Leave coalition. Run by a draw bridge down elite but win by drawbridge up voters. Negotiating bilateral free trade deals from a position of relative weakness is certainly possible. But the price will be opening up our markets to Foriegn competition and gutting EU health, safety, animal welfare, quality standards to an extent that will horrify Tory Remainia, the NFU and many Mail readers.
Not that I blame May for not being clear about this. The internal debate is ongoing, she's still in a honeymoon and sans another £ devaluation she needs to keep details till after #Mayday. This is also not a catastrophe of her making. But she volunteered for the job and has brutally owned Leave. We have less than 6 months to expose these choices and drive Brexit into the sand. We have less than six months to prevent #Mayday.
There is no catastrophe.
Depends on your point of view. The fact (and it is a fact) that we've gone into Brexit woefully ill prepared is - at the very least - concerning.
At present we have a Gordian knot. Can't go back, can't go forward.
Brexit is still, morally and democratically, the correct option. I suspect you agree, deep down.
Certainly when you see the shysters currently running the EU, you remember why it happened. Juncker has much to answer the for IMO.
But the problem remains, Brexit is woefully ill defined. It could mean anything from the status quo to a very unBritish xenophobic isolationism.
I don't see anything very moral in pursuing policies that will make a lot of people worse off then they are now. But that's democracy. So, I am not sure Brexit is the moral thing to do, but it is certainly the democratic thing to do.
Aberfan. Didn't a BBC newscaster cry about this, for the first time ever? I remember my parents talking about it, later.
My Dad wrote a fine poem about Aberfan, in which he referenced some of the genuinely eerie, predictive dreams people had about the disaster, beforehand
Brrrr. RIP
So presumably that is (partly) where the idea of The White Hotel comes from.
Aberfan. Didn't a BBC newscaster cry about this, for the first time ever? I remember my parents talking about it, later.
My Dad wrote a fine poem about Aberfan, in which he referenced some of the genuinely eerie, predictive dreams people had about the disaster, beforehand
Brrrr. RIP
If one were a reporter on the scene at the time, I don't see how you could not cry.
May's comments are significant in that #1 It's another enormous hint we're leaving the Customs Union. Which seems todate to be Hammond's resignation point. Though the later could also be Hammond's opening negotiating stance. Leaving the Customs Union also complicates the Irish Border. #2 May is relying on new free trade deals at precisely the point new free trade deals are becoming harder to secure. We're back to the contradictions of the Leave coalition. Run by a draw bridge down elite but win by drawbridge up voters. Negotiating bilateral free trade deals from a position of relative weakness is certainly possible. But the price will be opening up our markets to Foriegn competition and gutting EU health, safety, animal welfare, quality standards to an extent that will horrify Tory Remainia, the NFU and many Mail readers.
Not that I blame May for not being clear about this. The internal debate is ongoing, she's still in a honeymoon and sans another £ devaluation she needs to keep details till after #Mayday. This is also not a catastrophe of her making. But she volunteered for the job and has brutally owned Leave. We have less than 6 months to expose these choices and drive Brexit into the sand. We have less than six months to prevent #Mayday.
I fail to see why remainers keep saying "free trade deals from a position of relative weakness" or some such thing. We are the 5th largest economy in the world.
The Prime Minister made clear that she will ignore EU leaders by attempting to strike trade deals around the world before the country formally leaves the EU. Brussels leaders have demanded that Britain does not try to do any deals before Brexit, which is expected in 2019.
However, Mrs May said on Friday: "The UK has long been one of the strongest advocates on Europe for free trade and will continue to be so.
"Indeed I want the UK to become more active not less in making the case for free trade around the world. That means that while we remain a member of the EU the UK will continue to back the EU's free trade negotiations.
"And as we prepare to leave the EU, I've been clear that the UK is discussing our future trading relationship with third countries.
"This will not undermine the EU's trade agenda. It is not in competition with it. We will continue to help the EU reach these important trade agreements. It is about seizing the opportunities of Brexit. About forging an ambitious and optimistic new role for Britain in the world."
But she also just said that the UK will participate fully in the EU till we leave. That won't work. The other members won't take kindly to having the UK in the room with them discussing EU trade if at the same time we're discussing unilateral trade agreements with other countries. So the other EU members will, quite rightly, exclude us from any discussions where they feel the position is compromised.
The UK will remain a paid up member of the EU until two years after article 50 is initiated. It is only right that the UK participates fully in all aspects of the EU until that time. – Whether other countries take kindly to that or not is irrelevant.
Of course being bloody minded and pissing off the other 27 countries is so going to help us get that great trade deal Brexiters have promised us. Still we'll show Jonny Foreigner who's boss eh!.
May's comments are significant in that #1 It's another enormous hint we're leaving the Customs Union. Which seems todate to be Hammond's resignation point. Though the later could also be Hammond's opening negotiating stance. Leaving the Customs Union also complicates the Irish Border. #2 May is relying on new free trade deals at precisely the point new free trade deals are becoming harder to secure. We're back to the contradictions of the Leave coalition. Run by a draw bridge down elite but win by drawbridge up voters. Negotiating bilateral free trade deals from a position of relative weakness is certainly possible. But the price will be opening up our markets to Foriegn competition and gutting EU health, safety, animal welfare, quality standards to an extent that will horrify Tory Remainia, the NFU and many Mail readers.
Not that I blame May for not being clear about this. The internal debate is ongoing, she's still in a honeymoon and sans another £ devaluation she needs to keep details till after #Mayday. This is also not a catastrophe of her making. But she volunteered for the job and has brutally owned Leave. We have less than 6 months to expose these choices and drive Brexit into the sand. We have less than six months to prevent #Mayday.
There is no catastrophe.
Depends on your point of view. The fact (and it is a fact) that we've gone into Brexit woefully ill prepared is - at the very least - concerning.
At present we have a Gordian knot. Can't go back, can't go forward.
Your knowledge of classics is woeful. Ο Μεγας Αλεξανδρος. Or Alexander the great to you cut the gordian knot. Because he was told it was an unsolvable problem on how to untie it, he took out his sword and smote it. Problem solved.
Evening all. Can we find some friendly Canuck to come out tomorrow saying "Thank EU but no thank EU, we'll talk to the British first now, come back when you bunch of idiots get your shit together".
May's comments are significant in that #1 It's another enormous hint we're leaving the Customs Union. Which seems todate to be Hammond's resignation point. Though the later could also be Hammond's opening negotiating stance. Leaving the Customs Union also complicates the Irish Border. #2 May is relying on new free trade deals at precisely the point new free trade deals are becoming harder to secure. We're back to the contradictions of the Leave coalition. Run by a draw bridge down elite but win by drawbridge up voters. Negotiating bilateral free trade deals from a position of relative weakness is certainly possible. But the price will be opening up our markets to Foriegn competition and gutting EU health, safety, animal welfare, quality standards to an extent that will horrify Tory Remainia, the NFU and many Mail readers.
Not that I blame May for not being clear about this. The internal debate is ongoing, she's still in a honeymoon and sans another £ devaluation she needs to keep details till after #Mayday. This is also not a catastrophe of her making. But she volunteered for the job and has brutally owned Leave. We have less than 6 months to expose these choices and drive Brexit into the sand. We have less than six months to prevent #Mayday.
The UK has been a world leader in animal welfare since the beginning of the 19th century. There is little reason to see why this will not continue. In many cases the UK's animal welfare standards are significantly higher than the minimum required by the EU.
As has been pointed out to YellowSubmarine and his fellow moaners before, the UK is and has always been a leader in health and safety too. Many of the EU rules grew out of UK rules or UK initiatives. Why they would think that should change because of Brexit, god only knows.
May's comments are significant in that #1 It's another enormous hint we're leaving the Customs Union. Which seems todate to be Hammond's resignation point. Though the later could also be Hammond's opening negotiating stance. Leaving the Customs Union also complicates the Irish Border. #2 May is relying on new free trade deals at precisely the point new free trade deals are becoming harder to secure. We're back to the contradictions of the Leave coalition. Run by a draw bridge down elite but win by drawbridge up voters. Negotiating bilateral free trade deals from a position of relative weakness is certainly possible. But the price will be opening up our markets to Foriegn competition and gutting EU health, safety, animal welfare, quality standards to an extent that will horrify Tory Remainia, the NFU and many Mail readers.
Not that I blame May for not being clear about this. The internal debate is ongoing, she's still in a honeymoon and sans another £ devaluation she needs to keep details till after #Mayday. This is also not a catastrophe of her making. But she volunteered for the job and has brutally owned Leave. We have less than 6 months to expose these choices and drive Brexit into the sand. We have less than six months to prevent #Mayday.
There is no catastrophe.
Depends on your point of view. The fact (and it is a fact) that we've gone into Brexit woefully ill prepared is - at the very least - concerning.
At present we have a Gordian knot. Can't go back, can't go forward.
Brexit is still, morally and democratically, the correct option. I suspect you agree, deep down.
Certainly when you see the shysters currently running the EU, you remember why it happened. Juncker has much to answer the for IMO.
But the problem remains, Brexit is woefully ill defined. It could mean anything from the status quo to a very unBritish xenophobic isolationism.
I don't see anything very moral in pursuing policies that will make a lot of people worse off then they are now. But that's democracy. So, I am not sure Brexit is the moral thing to do, but it is certainly the democratic thing to do.
There is a reality I think that Remainers need to recognise. The leadership of the EU did absolutely nothing to keep us in. Juncker is antagonistic to a point, where you start to feel we, the British have been played.
(but to be fair to OGH, this was the highest LibDem % at a Westminster by-election since Eastleigh, 2013!)
Years since a Lib Dem gain: 10 (and a bit) Years since a Lib Dem gain from Con: 16 (and a bit).
Tick tock.
Be fair, usually when a party comes second in a by election after making a big effort, journalists shake their head ruefully and say "They should really be winning seats like this" or "Second place is nothing under FPTP"
Todays coverage of the Lib Dem performance on this site has been a refreshing counter to those kind of articles.
The Prime Minister made clear that she will ignore EU leaders by attempting to strike trade deals around the world before the country formally leaves the EU. Brussels leaders have demanded that Britain does not try to do any deals before Brexit, which is expected in 2019.
However, Mrs May said on Friday: "The UK has long been one of the strongest advocates on Europe for free trade and will continue to be so.
"Indeed I want the UK to become more active not less in making the case for free trade around the world. That means that while we remain a member of the EU the UK will continue to back the EU's free trade negotiations.
"And as we prepare to leave the EU, I've been clear that the UK is discussing our future trading relationship with third countries.
"This will not undermine the EU's trade agenda. It is not in competition with it. We will continue to help the EU reach these important trade agreements. It is about seizing the opportunities of Brexit. About forging an ambitious and optimistic new role for Britain in the world."
But she also just said that the UK will participate fully in the EU till we leave. That won't work. The other members won't take kindly to having the UK in the room with them discussing EU trade if at the same time we're discussing unilateral trade agreements with other countries. So the other EU members will, quite rightly, exclude us from any discussions where they feel the position is compromised.
Even after A50 is invoked, we remain full members of the EU with all the rights and obligations that entails. But if the rest of the EU wants to curtail our rights, I'm sure HMG would be happy to overlook our obligations...
Technically we are still members but, seriously, what is the point in insisting on this after A50 has been invoked? Why piss off the people we need to negotiate with it's going to be hard enough as it is
I am currently in Canada doing deals that will hopefully generate a little bit of cash for the Chancellor of the Exchequer. Everyone asks about Brexit. They are generally amused, more than anything else.
What do they think about the collapse of the EU trade deal?
May's comments are significant in that #1 It's another enormous hint we're leaving the Customs Union. Which seems todate to be Hammond's resignation point. Though the later could also be Hammond's opening negotiating stance. Leaving the Customs Union also complicates the Irish Border. #2 May is relying on new free trade deals at precisely the point new free trade deals are becoming harder to secure. We're back to the contradictions of the Leave coalition. Run by a draw bridge down elite but win by drawbridge up voters. Negotiating bilateral free trade deals from a position of relative weakness is certainly possible. But the price will be opening up our markets to Foriegn competition and gutting EU health, safety, animal welfare, quality standards to an extent that will horrify Tory Remainia, the NFU and many Mail readers.
Not that I blame May for not being clear about this. The internal debate is ongoing, she's still in a honeymoon and sans another £ devaluation she needs to keep details till after #Mayday. This is also not a catastrophe of her making. But she volunteered for the job and has brutally owned Leave. We have less than 6 months to expose these choices and drive Brexit into the sand. We have less than six months to prevent #Mayday.
There is no catastrophe.
We don't agree and clearly never will. I was trying to tease out the current politics. My view is we are heading for #Mayday. The current polling for the Conservatives and difficulty of dealing with a Remainer parliament who's mandate has been superceded points to May invoking A50 next March then announcing a dissolution resolution the same day. The Castrovalva of Xenophobic post truth effluent that was the Leave event is unravelling. But not unravelling anywhere near fast enough imho to prevent #Mayday. I was arguing europhiles need to up our game and pray for bigger " events " that we've currently had. May needs #Mayday in order to confront the hard choices of Brexit but can only achieve #Mayday if those hard choices come after #Mayday. The clock ticks. The games afoot.
Life involves hard choices. I think we're a bad fit for the EU, because we don't share the core objective of forging a new nation called Europe. Therefore, let us depart.
May's comments are significant in that #1 It's another enormous hint we're leaving the Customs Union. Which seems todate to be Hammond's resignation point. Though the later could also be Hammond's opening negotiating stance. Leaving the Customs Union also complicates the Irish Border. #2 May is relying on new free trade deals at precisely the point new free trade deals are becoming harder to secure. We're back to the contradictions of the Leave coalition. Run by a draw bridge down elite but win by drawbridge up voters. Negotiating bilateral free trade deals from a position of relative weakness is certainly possible. But the price will be opening up our markets to Foriegn competition and gutting EU health, safety, animal welfare, quality standards to an extent that will horrify Tory Remainia, the NFU and many Mail readers.
Not that I blame May for not being clear about this. The internal debate is ongoing, she's still in a honeymoon and sans another £ devaluation she needs to keep details till after #Mayday. This is also not a catastrophe of her making. But she volunteered for the job and has brutally owned Leave. We have less than 6 months to expose these choices and drive Brexit into the sand. We have less than six months to prevent #Mayday.
There is no catastrophe.
Depends on your point of view. The fact (and it is a fact) that we've gone into Brexit woefully ill prepared is - at the very least - concerning.
At present we have a Gordian knot. Can't go back, can't go forward.
Your knowledge of classics is woeful. Ο Μεγας Αλεξανδρος. Or Alexander the great to you cut the gordian knot. Because he was told it was an unsolvable problem on how to untie it, he took out his sword and smote it. Problem solved.
You ignoramus.
Actually, the Gordian Knot is a very good metaphor for Britain's answer as to how to reform the apparently unreformable EU.
(but to be fair to OGH, this was the highest LibDem % at a Westminster by-election since Eastleigh, 2013!)
Years since a Lib Dem gain: 10 (and a bit) Years since a Lib Dem gain from Con: 16 (and a bit).
Tick tock.
Be fair, usually when a party comes second in a by election after making a big effort, journalists shake their head ruefully and say "They should really be winning seats like this" or "Second place is nothing under FPTP"
Todays coverage of the Lib Dem performance on this site has been a refreshing counter to those kind of articles.
They can have their moment in the sun. I'm just saying that the fabled Lib Dem by-election machine isn't quite what it's sometimes believed to be. But I'll be saying more on this in the morning.
May's comments are significant in that #1 It's another enormous hint we're leaving the Customs Union. Which seems todate to be Hammond's resignation point. Though the later could also be Hammond's opening negotiating stance. Leaving the Customs Union also complicates the Irish Border. #2 May is relying on new free trade deals at precisely the point new free trade deals are becoming harder to secure. We're back to the contradictions of the Leave coalition. Run by a draw bridge down elite but win by drawbridge up voters. Negotiating bilateral free trade deals from a position of relative weakness is certainly possible. But the price will be opening up our markets to Foriegn competition and gutting EU health, safety, animal welfare, quality standards to an extent that will horrify Tory Remainia, the NFU and many Mail readers.
Not that I blame May for not being clear about this. The internal debate is ongoing, she's still in a honeymoon and sans another £ devaluation she needs to keep details till after #Mayday. This is also not a catastrophe of her making. But she volunteered for the job and has brutally owned Leave. We have less than 6 months to expose these choices and drive Brexit into the sand. We have less than six months to prevent #Mayday.
There is no catastrophe.
Depends on your point of view. The fact (and it is a fact) that we've gone into Brexit woefully ill prepared is - at the very least - concerning.
At present we have a Gordian knot. Can't go back, can't go forward.
Your knowledge of classics is woeful. Ο Μεγας Αλεξανδρος. Or Alexander the great to you cut the gordian knot. Because he was told it was an unsolvable problem on how to untie it, he took out his sword and smote it. Problem solved.
You ignoramus.
Actually, the Gordian Knot is a very good metaphor for Britain's answer as to how to reform the apparently unreformable EU.
You must live further away than I thought - we're still on daylight savings here until 11/6
Ah, but what time did PB stop working for me?
On an earlier thread, Pong or Pulpstar got the two of us confused. Perhaps it's time for a re-post of the vast list of differences between TimB and TimT.
I am currently in Canada doing deals that will hopefully generate a little bit of cash for the Chancellor of the Exchequer. Everyone asks about Brexit. They are generally amused, more than anything else.
You do get some funny questions about Brexit.
When I was in Taiwan, I was asked (in all seriousness) if the situation was like China and Taiwan. I said "No, it's very different, the UK and the EU remain on good terms."
But it was a reminder to me that political rhetoric, whether from Theresa May, Liam Fox or Martin Schultz, is heard (or misheard) abroad. Statements designed for domestic consumption will be rebroadcast on CNN or Bloomberg, and do affect how Brazilians, Malaysians and Taiwanese people think about the UK, and the EU.
May's comments are significant in that #1 It's another enormous hint we're leaving the Customs Union. Which seems todate to be Hammond's resignation point. Though the later could also be Hammond's opening negotiating stance. Leaving the Customs Union also complicates the Irish Border. #2 May is relying on new free trade deals at precisely the point new free trade deals are becoming harder to secure. We're back to the contradictions of the Leave coalition. Run by a draw bridge down elite but win by drawbridge up voters. Negotiating bilateral free trade deals from a position of relative weakness is certainly possible. But the price will be opening up our markets to Foriegn competition and gutting EU health, safety, animal welfare, quality standards to an extent that will horrify Tory Remainia, the NFU and many Mail readers.
Not that I blame May for not being clear about this. The internal debate is ongoing, she's still in a honeymoon and sans another £ devaluation she needs to keep details till after #Mayday. This is also not a catastrophe of her making. But she volunteered for the job and has brutally owned Leave. We have less than 6 months to expose these choices and drive Brexit into the sand. We have less than six months to prevent #Mayday.
I fail to see why remainers keep saying "free trade deals from a position of relative weakness" or some such thing. We are the 5th largest economy in the world.
Ignoring for a moment that the #Brexit devaluation has reduced us to the 6th largest economy in some metrics let me explain. We're suddenly and accidentally tearing up our existing trade relationships in part negotiated as part of the world's largest economy then launch a renegotiation of the lot precisely as the world lurches towards protectionism and at the best of voters who want more protectionism not more free trade. So my use of " relative weakness " is contestable and subjective. It is however in my view fair comment.
Brexit will be a bitch. But probably a bitch we need. Bracing and Thatcherite: we will sink or swim. No more living on borrowed money. Ourselves alone.
Nations can bounce back very quickly when confronted with hard reality.
They can if they are united, not so sure that's the same with Brexit when half the country is disillusioned by the direction the country has gone in, and that's not a moan it's simply a fact.
Remembering Aberfan, 50 years ago today. It was the first time that I really didn't understand the news - how could a mountain move - and had to have my parents explain it to me.
Tonight's R4 PM ended with a replay of 10 minutes of on-the-spot reporting from Aberfan 24 hrs after the disaster. Interestingly the reporters were more-or-less as inanely intrusive as today, but the interviewee's accounts were extremely moving.
I am currently in Canada doing deals that will hopefully generate a little bit of cash for the Chancellor of the Exchequer. Everyone asks about Brexit. They are generally amused, more than anything else.
What do they think about the collapse of the EU trade deal?
No-one has said anything about it. They are much more interested in the TPP.
The Prime Minister made clear that she will ignore EU leaders by attempting to strike trade deals around the world before the country formally leaves the EU. Brussels leaders have demanded that Britain does not try to do any deals before Brexit, which is expected in 2019.
However, Mrs May said on Friday: "The UK has long been one of the strongest advocates on Europe for free trade and will continue to be so.
"Indeed I want the UK to become more active not less in making the case for free trade around the world. That means that while we remain a member of the EU the UK will continue to back the EU's free trade negotiations.
"And as we prepare to leave the EU, I've been clear that the UK is discussing our future trading relationship with third countries.
"This will not undermine the EU's trade agenda. It is not in competition with it. We will continue to help the EU reach these important trade agreements. It is about seizing the opportunities of Brexit. About forging an ambitious and optimistic new role for Britain in the world."
But she also just said that the UK will participate fully in the EU till we leave. That won't work. The other members won't take kindly to having the UK in the room with them discussing EU trade if at the same time we're discussing unilateral trade agreements with other countries. So the other EU members will, quite rightly, exclude us from any discussions where they feel the position is compromised.
Even after A50 is invoked, we remain full members of the EU with all the rights and obligations that entails. But if the rest of the EU wants to curtail our rights, I'm sure HMG would be happy to overlook our obligations...
Technically we are still members but, seriously, what is the point in insisting on this after A50 has been invoked? Why piss off the people we need to negotiate with it's going to be hard enough as it is
If we are going to be unwillingly excluded from the EU in practice once we invoke Article 50, why should we not take a similar attitude towards our £1bn monthly cheques to Brussels?
There is a reality I think that Remainers need to recognise. The leadership of the EU did absolutely nothing to keep us in. Juncker is antagonistic to a point, where you start to feel we, the British have been played.
I don't think they were being obstructive or antagonistic. It's more that they see things in a very different way, so they couldn't understand what we were bitching about.
The Daniel Korski article which was discussed here yesterday has some good illustrations of this:
May's comments are significant in that #1 It's another enormous hint we're leaving the Customs Union. Which seems todate to be Hammond's resignation point. Though the later could also be Hammond's opening negotiating stance. Leaving the Customs Union also complicates the Irish Border. #2 May is relying on new free trade deals at precisely the point new free trade deals are becoming harder to secure. We're back to the contradictions of the Leave coalition. Run by a draw bridge down elite but win by drawbridge up voters. Negotiating bilateral free trade deals from a position of relative weakness is certainly possible. But the price will be opening up our markets to Foriegn competition and gutting EU health, safety, animal welfare, quality standards to an extent that will horrify Tory Remainia, the NFU and many Mail readers.
Not that I blame May for not being clear about this. The internal debate is ongoing, she's still in a honeymoon and sans another £ devaluation she needs to keep details till after #Mayday. This is also not a catastrophe of her making. But she volunteered for the job and has brutally owned Leave. We have less than 6 months to expose these choices and drive Brexit into the sand. We have less than six months to prevent #Mayday.
There is no catastrophe.
Depends on your point of view. The fact (and it is a fact) that we've gone into Brexit woefully ill prepared is - at the very least - concerning.
At present we have a Gordian knot. Can't go back, can't go forward.
Your knowledge of classics is woeful. Ο Μεγας Αλεξανδρος. Or Alexander the great to you cut the gordian knot. Because he was told it was an unsolvable problem on how to untie it, he took out his sword and smote it. Problem solved.
You ignoramus.
Actually, the Gordian Knot is a very good metaphor for Britain's answer as to how to reform the apparently unreformable EU.
The problem with "EU Reform", is that the French, the Greeks, and the British all have very different ideas about how they'd like the EU reformed.
The Prime Minister made clear that she will ignore EU leaders by attempting to strike trade deals around the world before the country formally leaves the EU. Brussels leaders have demanded that Britain does not try to do any deals before Brexit, which is expected in 2019.
However, Mrs May said on Friday: "The UK has long been one of the strongest advocates on Europe for free trade and will continue to be so.
"Indeed I want the UK to become more active not less in making the case for free trade around the world. That means that while we remain a member of the EU the UK will continue to back the EU's free trade negotiations.
"And as we prepare to leave the EU, I've been clear that the UK is discussing our future trading relationship with third countries.
"This will not undermine the EU's trade agenda. It is not in competition with it. We will continue to help the EU reach these important trade agreements. It is about seizing the opportunities of Brexit. About forging an ambitious and optimistic new role for Britain in the world."
But she also just said that the UK will participate fully in the EU till we leave. That won't work. The other members won't take kindly to having the UK in the room with them discussing EU trade if at the same time we're discussing unilateral trade agreements with other countries. So the other EU members will, quite rightly, exclude us from any discussions where they feel the position is compromised.
The UK will remain a paid up member of the EU until two years after article 50 is initiated. It is only right that the UK participates fully in all aspects of the EU until that time. – Whether other countries take kindly to that or not is irrelevant.
Of course being bloody minded and pissing off the other 27 countries is so going to help us get that great trade deal Brexiters have promised us. Still we'll show Jonny Foreigner who's boss eh!.
Yes, because Blair's approach worked so much better than Thatcher's pre-1988, didn't it? The idea of begging for scraps by 'being nice' is pathetic. Positive engagement, on the other hand, is a different matter - but we turned from that path a long time ago (ironically, by Thatcher).
Remembering Aberfan, 50 years ago today. It was the first time that I really didn't understand the news - how could a mountain move - and had to have my parents explain it to me.
Tonight's R4 PM ended with a replay of 10 minutes of on-the-spot reporting from Aberfan 24 hrs after the disaster. Interestingly the reporters were more-or-less as inanely intrusive as today, but the interviewee's accounts were extremely moving.
It is extraordinary, given the dignity of many who suffer real calamity, how awful and undignified much reporting of disasters is.
May's comments are significant in that #1 It's another enormous hint we're leaving the Customs Union. Which seems todate to be Hammond's resignation point. Though the later could also be Hammond's opening negotiating stance. Leaving the Customs Union also complicates the Irish Border. #2 May is relying EU health, safety, animal welfare, quality standards to an extent that will horrify Tory Remainia, the NFU and many Mail readers.
Not that I blame May for not being clear about this. The internal debate is ongoing, she's still in a honeymoon and sans another £ devaluation she needs to keep details till after #Mayday. This is also not a catastrophe of her making. But she volunteered for the job and has brutally owned Leave. We have less than 6 months to expose these choices and drive Brexit into the sand. We have less than six months to prevent #Mayday.
There is no catastrophe.
Depends on your point of view. The fact (and it is a fact) that we've gone into Brexit woefully ill prepared is - at the very least - concerning.
At present we have a Gordian knot. Can't go back, can't go forward.
Brexit is still, morally and democratically, the correct option. I suspect you agree, deep down.
Certainly when you see the shysters currently running the EU, you remember why it happened. Juncker has much to answer the for IMO.
But the problem remains, Brexit is woefully ill defined. It could mean anything from the status quo to a very unBritish xenophobic isolationism.
I don't see anything very moral in pursuing policies that will make a lot of people worse off then they are now. But that's democracy. So, I am not sure Brexit is the moral thing to do, but it is certainly the democratic thing to do.
There is a reality I think that Remainers need to recognise. The leadership of the EU did absolutely nothing to keep us in. Juncker is antagonistic to a point, where you start to feel we, the British have been played.
I think the EU - and the Commission especially - fundamentally misunderstands the British. We do look at the world differently, our past is very distinct and that has shaped what we are, how we think and how we react to stuff. When I come to Canada or go to Australia or New Zealand an Anglosphere makes a lot of sense to me. I'd keep the Americans out of it, though. However, economically leaving the single market is going to cost us big time. I just don't see a way round that. This has always been my concern.
May's comments are significant in that #1 It's another enormous hint we're leaving the Customs Union. Which seems todate to be Hammond's resignation point. Though the later could also be Hammond's opening negotiating stance. Leaving the Customs Union also complicates the Irish Border. #2 May is relying on new free trade deals at precisely the point new free trade deals are becoming harder to secure. We're back to the contradictions of the Leave coalition. Run by a draw bridge down elite but win by drawbridge up voters. Negotiating bilateral free trade deals from a position of relative weakness is certainly possible. But the price will be opening up our markets to Foriegn competition and gutting EU health, safety, animal welfare, quality standards to an extent that will horrify Tory Remainia, the NFU and many Mail readers.
Not that I blame May for not being clear about this. The internal debate is ongoing, she's still in a honeymoon and sans another £ devaluation she needs to keep details till after #Mayday. This is also not a catastrophe of her making. But she volunteered for the job and has brutally owned Leave. We have less than 6 months to expose these choices and drive Brexit into the sand. We have less than six months to prevent #Mayday.
There is no catastrophe.
Depends on your point of view. The fact (and it is a fact) that we've gone into Brexit woefully ill prepared is - at the very least - concerning.
At present we have a Gordian knot. Can't go back, can't go forward.
Your knowledge of classics is woeful. Ο Μεγας Αλεξανδρος. Or Alexander the great to you cut the gordian knot. Because he was told it was an unsolvable problem on how to untie it, he took out his sword and smote it. Problem solved.
You ignoramus.
Actually, the Gordian Knot is a very good metaphor for Britain's answer as to how to reform the apparently unreformable EU.
The problem with "EU Reform", is that the French, the Greeks, and the British all have very different ideas about how they'd like the EU reformed.
And the eurocrats don't think there is any need for reform anyway.
Comments
Looks like Gary Johnson is cooked
We could presumably initially just posit the same schedule as the EU has.
The next day Pravda reported that Khrushchev came second, while Nixon was next to last.
#hignfy
https://twitter.com/NicholsUprising/status/789472387720880128
Today in Georgia people were waiting up to 2 hours to vote.
Republican state legislatures try to make it as hard as possible for black/poor people to vote.
(but to be fair to OGH, this was the highest LibDem % at a Westminster by-election since Eastleigh, 2013!)
Not that I blame May for not being clear about this. The internal debate is ongoing, she's still in a honeymoon and sans another £ devaluation she needs to keep details till after #Mayday. This is also not a catastrophe of her making. But she volunteered for the job and has brutally owned Leave. We have less than 6 months to expose these choices and drive Brexit into the sand. We have less than six months to prevent #Mayday.
Years since a Lib Dem gain from Con: 16 (and a bit).
Tick tock.
or some such thing. We are the 5th largest economy in the world.
22
18
Dosent voting early lead to voting often?
At present we have a Gordian knot. Can't go back, can't go forward.
And I weren't talking about a deal with those dullards.
But the problem remains, Brexit is woefully ill defined. It could mean anything from the status quo to a very unBritish xenophobic isolationism.
The point is we just don't know. And we should know.
You ignoramus.
Some Republicans dismissed the notion that Democratic-leaning Hispanics will become a significant enough force to tip the balance to Clinton.
“Nah,” former Arizona governor Jan Brewer said in an interview. “They don’t get out and vote.’’
http://www.bostonglobe.com/news/politics/2016/10/21/hillary-clinton-looks-expand-political-map/MexXdjQtXdjB5l8B6SeFIM/story.html
Or is that just my wishful thinking?
Todays coverage of the Lib Dem performance on this site has been a refreshing counter to those kind of articles.
I had problems for about an hour from 3pm EST
Other posters take note.
Meanwhile in political stories that matter, Trump is leading in 3 out 4 of the latest polls. We need to see a non-tracker.
http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/latest_polls/
On an earlier thread, Pong or Pulpstar got the two of us confused. Perhaps it's time for a re-post of the vast list of differences between TimB and TimT.
When I was in Taiwan, I was asked (in all seriousness) if the situation was like China and Taiwan. I said "No, it's very different, the UK and the EU remain on good terms."
But it was a reminder to me that political rhetoric, whether from Theresa May, Liam Fox or Martin Schultz, is heard (or misheard) abroad. Statements designed for domestic consumption will be rebroadcast on CNN or Bloomberg, and do affect how Brazilians, Malaysians and Taiwanese people think about the UK, and the EU.
The Daniel Korski article which was discussed here yesterday has some good illustrations of this:
http://www.politico.eu/article/why-we-lost-the-brexit-vote-former-uk-prime-minister-david-cameron/
https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2016/oct/21/ddos-attack-dyn-internet-denial-service
Seeing how quickly the whole "show" can crumble is quite scary.