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  • Options
    OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 32,078

    The LibDems have saved only ONE deposit out of four Westminster by-elections so far this Parliament.

    During the 2010-15 Parliament, they lost ELEVEN deposits from 19 contests.

    The chatterati are coming to regret the demise of the coalition; the ordinary people not so much. Yet.
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    rpjs said:


    To be fair, it's not like we were champing at the bit to go on the offensive and were held back by French dilatoriness either. I do feel that if we (the western allies) had fought for the Czechs in 1938 or actually gone on the offensive while the Wehrmacht were busy in Poland, Hitler would be just a historical footnote today.

    The UK was in no position to go to war in 1938 and in 1939 the situation was barely that much better. The idea that the UK and France could have conducted and offensive war against Germany in either year is laughable. There were not the troops, the aircraft, the logistics and, especially, not the mindset to do any such thing.

    Perhaps there should have been but that is a different argument and one which should mostly be directed at Paris.
    In September '39, France had 40 divisions facing Germany's 22 divisions in the West.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saar_Offensive
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    nunununu Posts: 6,024
    taffys said:

    619.

    That graphic shows why the Repubs are doomed if Trump loses.

    If they swing to a liberal Repub to attract minority voters, the base crumbles away. And as I said earlier, its a dog with different fleas.

    Why? Bush attracted masses of minority voters and was hardly a liberal Republican.
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    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 54,074
    I bet the LibDems won't lose their deposit in the Batley and Spen by-election!
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    rcs1000 said:

    I bet the LibDems won't lose their deposit in the Batley and Spen by-election!

    I agree with you for that one ;)
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    CD13CD13 Posts: 6,351
    edited October 2016
    Mr 619,

    "I think the point is that he does it all the time."

    I suspect he does. But what does it lead to here. Any male politician in America can get the same treatment. If someone accused you of touching someone inappropriately at an outdoor event twenty years ago, what would be your defence? No one could back you up because no one would remember (unless it was blatant).

    If the victim broke down in tears at the press conference (assuming you were famous, of course) it all seems ... opportunistic at best.

    He may be a serial grope,r but this is getting silly now. It risks producing a bit of sympathy for him. Perhaps it's a GOP plot?
  • Options
    rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 58,445
    MP_SE said:

    Nick Clegg came across as borderline deranged on the Daily Politics. Tries to argue that voters were not aware that Brexit meant leaving the single market only for the BBC to play him a clip of David Cameron, George Osborne, Boris Johnson, Michael Gove and Andrea Leadsom claiming that it would.

    https://twitter.com/EuroGuido/status/789131722545893376

    Who cares. What matters is the question on the ballot paper - which was about leaving the EU. Is leaving the EU the same as leaving the Single Market?
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    GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 20,925
    MP_SE said:

    Nick Clegg came across as borderline deranged on the Daily Politics. Tries to argue that voters were not aware that Brexit meant leaving the single market only for the BBC to play him a clip of David Cameron, George Osborne, Boris Johnson, Michael Gove and Andrea Leadsom claiming that it would.

    https://twitter.com/EuroGuido/status/789131722545893376

    Nick who?
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    MP_SE said:

    Nick Clegg came across as borderline deranged on the Daily Politics. Tries to argue that voters were not aware that Brexit meant leaving the single market only for the BBC to play him a clip of David Cameron, George Osborne, Boris Johnson, Michael Gove and Andrea Leadsom claiming that it would.

    https://twitter.com/EuroGuido/status/789131722545893376

    Who cares. What matters is the question on the ballot paper - which was about leaving the EU. Is leaving the EU the same as leaving the Single Market?
    We joined the Single Market by referendum in 1975.
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    HurstLlamaHurstLlama Posts: 9,098

    rpjs said:


    To be fair, it's not like we were champing at the bit to go on the offensive and were held back by French dilatoriness either. I do feel that if we (the western allies) had fought for the Czechs in 1938 or actually gone on the offensive while the Wehrmacht were busy in Poland, Hitler would be just a historical footnote today.

    The UK was in no position to go to war in 1938 and in 1939 the situation was barely that much better. The idea that the UK and France could have conducted and offensive war against Germany in either year is laughable. There were not the troops, the aircraft, the logistics and, especially, not the mindset to do any such thing.

    Perhaps there should have been but that is a different argument and one which should mostly be directed at Paris.
    In September '39, France had 40 divisions facing Germany's 22 divisions in the West.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saar_Offensive
    Quality versus quantity, Cap'n doc. Also as I said, there was not the logistics, or mindset for an offensive war. That Maginot Line was built for a purpose and that purpose defined French military thinking in the thirties.
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    williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 48,149
    GIN1138 said:

    MP_SE said:

    Nick Clegg came across as borderline deranged on the Daily Politics. Tries to argue that voters were not aware that Brexit meant leaving the single market only for the BBC to play him a clip of David Cameron, George Osborne, Boris Johnson, Michael Gove and Andrea Leadsom claiming that it would.

    https://twitter.com/EuroGuido/status/789131722545893376

    Nick who?
    The next Prime Minister. ;)
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    FensterFenster Posts: 2,115
    CD13 said:

    Looks to be open season on Trump at the moment.

    Good - he should be nowhere near the cockpit of a country.

    He wouldn't be allowed on the rugby club committee.

    Steer. Well. Clear.
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    TheWhiteRabbitTheWhiteRabbit Posts: 12,388
    edited October 2016

    MP_SE said:

    Nick Clegg came across as borderline deranged on the Daily Politics. Tries to argue that voters were not aware that Brexit meant leaving the single market only for the BBC to play him a clip of David Cameron, George Osborne, Boris Johnson, Michael Gove and Andrea Leadsom claiming that it would.

    https://twitter.com/EuroGuido/status/789131722545893376

    Who cares. What matters is the question on the ballot paper - which was about leaving the EU. Is leaving the EU the same as leaving the Single Market?
    We joined the Single Market by referendum in 1975.
    NO WE DID NOT

    We voted not to leave in 1975. We joined in 1971/2.
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    JackWJackW Posts: 14,787
    Chris said:

    Millions of Trump supporters now believe that blue rays come out of Hillary Clinton's eyes.

    Many think the same of my ARSE .... :smiley:
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    MP_SE said:

    Nick Clegg came across as borderline deranged on the Daily Politics. Tries to argue that voters were not aware that Brexit meant leaving the single market only for the BBC to play him a clip of David Cameron, George Osborne, Boris Johnson, Michael Gove and Andrea Leadsom claiming that it would.

    https://twitter.com/EuroGuido/status/789131722545893376

    Who cares. What matters is the question on the ballot paper - which was about leaving the EU. Is leaving the EU the same as leaving the Single Market?
    We joined the Single Market by referendum in 1975.
    NO WE DID NOT

    We voted not to leave in 1975. We joined in 1971/2.
    No, we joined in 1973, actually!
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    JackW said:

    Chris said:

    Millions of Trump supporters now believe that blue rays come out of Hillary Clinton's eyes.

    Many think the same of my ARSE .... :smiley:
    ARSE 52%
    NARSE 48%

    :lol:
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    ThreeQuidderThreeQuidder Posts: 6,133
    theakes said:

    It appears the turnout at Witney is going to be pretty good for a by election. That would suggest quite a close result as the enthusuasm LOCALLY seems to be with the Lib Dems, (this is the first by election I can recall for years where they are getting cheers, waves and car drivers honking support).

    Ramp, ramp, ramp...
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    NigelbNigelb Posts: 62,849
    JackW said:

    Chris said:

    Millions of Trump supporters now believe that blue rays come out of Hillary Clinton's eyes.

    Many think the same of my ARSE .... :smiley:

    Are those phenomena good, or bad things ?
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    619619 Posts: 1,784
    CD13 said:

    Mr 619,

    "I think the point is that he does it all the time."

    I suspect he does. But what does it lead to here. Any male politician in America can get the same treatment. If someone accused you of touching someone inappropriately at an outdoor event twenty years ago, what would be your defence? No one could back you up because no one would remember (unless it was blatant).

    If the victim broke down in tears at the press conference (assuming you were famous, of course) it all seems ... opportunistic at best.

    He may be a serial grope,r but this is getting silly now. It risks producing a bit of sympathy for him. Perhaps it's a GOP plot?

    CD13 said:

    Mr 619,

    "I think the point is that he does it all the time."

    I suspect he does. But what does it lead to here. Any male politician in America can get the same treatment. If someone accused you of touching someone inappropriately at an outdoor event twenty years ago, what would be your defence? No one could back you up because no one would remember (unless it was blatant).

    If the victim broke down in tears at the press conference (assuming you were famous, of course) it all seems ... opportunistic at best.

    He may be a serial grope,r but this is getting silly now. It risks producing a bit of sympathy for him. Perhaps it's a GOP plot?

    most defences would be 'I would never do that sort of thing, i cant remember what happened 20 years ago, but thats not the sort of person i am'.

    Of course, he has been caught admitting that he does that sort of thing. That and him dismissing it as 'locker room talk' means he has no real defence aside from calling his victims too ugly to abuse.

    So, i very much doubt people in general will give him the benefit of the doubt or sympathy.
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    GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 20,880
    theakes said:

    Gardenwalker: suiggest you get out of the garden and onto the street!!!!

    Probably not --- Witney is a fair ways from Chez Walker. You make it sound like the 68 evenements.
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    MP_SE said:

    Nick Clegg came across as borderline deranged on the Daily Politics. Tries to argue that voters were not aware that Brexit meant leaving the single market only for the BBC to play him a clip of David Cameron, George Osborne, Boris Johnson, Michael Gove and Andrea Leadsom claiming that it would.

    https://twitter.com/EuroGuido/status/789131722545893376

    Who cares. What matters is the question on the ballot paper - which was about leaving the EU. Is leaving the EU the same as leaving the Single Market?
    We joined the Single Market by referendum in 1975.
    NO WE DID NOT

    We voted not to leave in 1975. We joined in 1971/2.
    No, we joined in 1973, actually!
    We signed the Treaty in 1972, passed the law in 1972, came into force 1973. So you can pick any.

    What you cannot pick is 1975.
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    JackWJackW Posts: 14,787
    Ohio - Suffolk - Sample 500 - 17-19 Oct

    Clinton 45 .. Trump 45

    http://www.suffolk.edu/documents/SUPRC/10_20_2016_marginals.pdf
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    JackWJackW Posts: 14,787
    Nigelb said:

    JackW said:

    Chris said:

    Millions of Trump supporters now believe that blue rays come out of Hillary Clinton's eyes.

    Many think the same of my ARSE .... :smiley:

    Are those phenomena good, or bad things ?
    A wonderful sight to behold ....
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    MP_SE said:

    Nick Clegg came across as borderline deranged on the Daily Politics. Tries to argue that voters were not aware that Brexit meant leaving the single market only for the BBC to play him a clip of David Cameron, George Osborne, Boris Johnson, Michael Gove and Andrea Leadsom claiming that it would.

    https://twitter.com/EuroGuido/status/789131722545893376

    Who cares. What matters is the question on the ballot paper - which was about leaving the EU. Is leaving the EU the same as leaving the Single Market?
    We joined the Single Market by referendum in 1975.
    NO WE DID NOT

    We voted not to leave in 1975. We joined in 1971/2.
    No, we joined in 1973, actually!
    We signed the Treaty in 1972, passed the law in 1972, came into force 1973. So you can pick any.

    What you cannot pick is 1975.
    The Accession Date for all three of Blighty, Ireland and Denmark was January 1st, 1973:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1973_enlargement_of_the_European_Communities#Background
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    AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340
    Further to the conversation earlier this afternoon, one of my assistants has just walked up to me and presented me with a piece of Turkish delight.
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    Further to the conversation earlier this afternoon, one of my assistants has just walked up to me and presented me with a piece of Turkish delight.

    Oo-er Missus!!!
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    Further to the conversation earlier this afternoon, one of my assistants has just walked up to me and presented me with a piece of Turkish delight.

    I trust you issued a reprimand for wasting time on PB.com
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    HurstLlamaHurstLlama Posts: 9,098
    O/T

    “To me, the difference between a mathematician and non-mathematician is that the former keeps going and makes mistakes until they come up with a solution while the latter consider themselves failures if they make an error or are beaten by the clock.”

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/education/stem-awards/stem-hq/the-beauty-of-maths/?WT.mc_id=tmgspk_plrprt_1503_AmqG5s1lt9r4&utm_source=tmgspk&utm_medium=plrprt&utm_content=1503&utm_campaign=tmgspk_plrprt_1503_AmqG5s1lt9r4&plr=1#!/
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    tysontyson Posts: 6,051

    Pulpstar said:

    Does anyone have the original French of wht Hollande said ?

    <<La Brexitanie - Douze points!>>
    Le, Brexit is masculine remember...
    In Italian it's not; la Brexit; Brexit is a girl

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    AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340
    @Richard_Nabavi There are limits to even my brazenness.
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    tyson said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Does anyone have the original French of wht Hollande said ?

    <<La Brexitanie - Douze points!>>
    Le, Brexit is masculine remember...
    In Italian it's not; la Brexit; Brexit is a girl

    La Brexitanie would be La Brexitania in Italian, I guess.
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    HurstLlamaHurstLlama Posts: 9,098
    tyson said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Does anyone have the original French of wht Hollande said ?

    <<La Brexitanie - Douze points!>>
    Le, Brexit is masculine remember...
    In Italian it's not; la Brexit; Brexit is a girl

    A lady, surely, Mr. Tyson.
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    El_CapitanoEl_Capitano Posts: 3,882

    Why? Surely this is the most Tory of shires.
    What's behind all this honking?

    West Oxfordshire is "liberal Tory": Hurd, Woodward, Cameron. People round here vote Tory but give money for refugee help groups.

    Put a popular local Lib Dem up against an unknown Brexiteering Conservative, when the mood music coming from Westminster is "hard Brexit" and "dental tests for child refugees", and you can see that there are grounds for some sort of swing.

    Bear in mind too that the rural areas of the constituency have not done well out of the Conservative-controlled County Council cuts recently, and that the plans to build thousands of new houses to cope with Oxford's overspill are not very popular either.

    I'm not confident enough to call tonight's percentages (though Robert's numbers look plausible to me) but I think it's pretty unarguable that they will be less Tory than the seat was at GE2015.
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    GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 20,925
    Is Donald Trump mad?

    Is Donald Trump pretending to be mad because this is all just a publicity stunt and he doesn't want to be POTUS?

    Discuss.
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    MP_SE said:

    Nick Clegg came across as borderline deranged on the Daily Politics. Tries to argue that voters were not aware that Brexit meant leaving the single market only for the BBC to play him a clip of David Cameron, George Osborne, Boris Johnson, Michael Gove and Andrea Leadsom claiming that it would.

    https://twitter.com/EuroGuido/status/789131722545893376

    Who cares. What matters is the question on the ballot paper - which was about leaving the EU. Is leaving the EU the same as leaving the Single Market?
    We joined the Single Market by referendum in 1975.
    NO WE DID NOT

    We voted not to leave in 1975. We joined in 1971/2.
    No, we joined in 1973, actually!
    We signed the Treaty in 1972, passed the law in 1972, came into force 1973. So you can pick any.

    What you cannot pick is 1975.
    The Accession Date for all three of Blighty, Ireland and Denmark was January 1st, 1973:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1973_enlargement_of_the_European_Communities#Background
    Our entry was effectively complete as of 1 January 1973, the referendum in 1975 was both formally and practically to leave,
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    OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 32,078
    619 said:

    CD13 said:

    Mr 619,

    "I think the point is that he does it all the time."

    I suspect he does. But what does it lead to here. Any male politician in America can get the same treatment. If someone accused you of touching someone inappropriately at an outdoor event twenty years ago, what would be your defence? No one could back you up because no one would remember (unless it was blatant).

    If the victim broke down in tears at the press conference (assuming you were famous, of course) it all seems ... opportunistic at best.

    He may be a serial grope,r but this is getting silly now. It risks producing a bit of sympathy for him. Perhaps it's a GOP plot?

    CD13 said:

    Mr 619,

    "I think the point is that he does it all the time."

    I suspect he does. But what does it lead to here. Any male politician in America can get the same treatment. If someone accused you of touching someone inappropriately at an outdoor event twenty years ago, what would be your defence? No one could back you up because no one would remember (unless it was blatant).

    If the victim broke down in tears at the press conference (assuming you were famous, of course) it all seems ... opportunistic at best.

    He may be a serial grope,r but this is getting silly now. It risks producing a bit of sympathy for him. Perhaps it's a GOP plot?

    most defences would be 'I would never do that sort of thing, i cant remember what happened 20 years ago, but thats not the sort of person i am'.

    Of course, he has been caught admitting that he does that sort of thing. That and him dismissing it as 'locker room talk' means he has no real defence aside from calling his victims too ugly to abuse.

    So, i very much doubt people in general will give him the benefit of the doubt or sympathy.
    Hard core Republicans?
  • Options
    GIN1138 said:

    Is Donald Trump mad?

    Is Donald Trump pretending to be mad because this is all just a publicity stunt and he doesn't want to be POTUS?

    Discuss.

    Donald Trump is a Democrat sleeper agent, trying his best to ensure Hillary wins the White House :lol:
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    Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,013
    On early war in France, this may be of interest:
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HV2nIkqnGBI
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    GIN1138 said:

    Is Donald Trump mad?

    Is Donald Trump pretending to be mad because this is all just a publicity stunt and he doesn't want to be POTUS?

    Discuss.

    Donald Trump is a Democrat sleeper agent, trying his best to ensure Hillary wins the White House :lol:
    When the Donald makes another billion because he's been shorting himself all along, we're all going to look pretty silly.
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    MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 50,154
    rcs1000 said:

    I bet the LibDems won't lose their deposit in the Batley and Spen by-election!

    A strategy they may want to roll out nationwide then....
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    Scott_P said:

    @faisalislam: in Brussels Lab leader @jeremycorbyn has just told me he is inviting some European leaders for a Brexit summit in February, weeks before a50

    Daniel Cohn-Bendit, Yanis Varoufakis and José Bové?
    and Putin?
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    GIN1138 said:

    MP_SE said:

    Nick Clegg came across as borderline deranged on the Daily Politics. Tries to argue that voters were not aware that Brexit meant leaving the single market only for the BBC to play him a clip of David Cameron, George Osborne, Boris Johnson, Michael Gove and Andrea Leadsom claiming that it would.

    https://twitter.com/EuroGuido/status/789131722545893376

    Nick who?
    He's the bloke who hosts Have I Got News For You....
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    rpjsrpjs Posts: 3,787
    edited October 2016

    rpjs said:


    To be fair, it's not like we were champing at the bit to go on the offensive and were held back by French dilatoriness either. I do feel that if we (the western allies) had fought for the Czechs in 1938 or actually gone on the offensive while the Wehrmacht were busy in Poland, Hitler would be just a historical footnote today.

    The UK was in no position to go to war in 1938 and in 1939 the situation was barely that much better. The idea that the UK and France could have conducted and offensive war against Germany in either year is laughable. There were not the troops, the aircraft, the logistics and, especially, not the mindset to do any such thing.

    Perhaps there should have been but that is a different argument and one which should mostly be directed at Paris.
    Ah, but neither was Germany in 1938. The OKW was terrified that the Sudeten Crisis would turn into a shooting war with the Czechs, who could have easily resisted an invasion with the state of the German forces in 1938 vs their defensible territory and border fortifications[1] long enough for the allies and/or the Soviets to get into gear and intervene.

    To be fair, the OKW were pretty lukewarm at the prospect of attacking Poland, at least until the Ribbentrop-Molotov pact gave them the security Stalin wouldn't intervene on the Poles' side, and then attacking France and the low countries in 1940. Hitler really was phenomenally lucky in the early years of the war: to a large extent the Nazi war machine before 1940 was strong but hollow shell. A bit more resistance and it could have crumbled to dust.

    [1] All lost at Munich, which made Hitler's subsequent invasion of the rump Czech state in March 1939 a pushover.
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    GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 20,880

    GIN1138 said:

    Is Donald Trump mad?

    Is Donald Trump pretending to be mad because this is all just a publicity stunt and he doesn't want to be POTUS?

    Discuss.

    Donald Trump is a Democrat sleeper agent, trying his best to ensure Hillary wins the White House :lol:
    When the Donald makes another billion because he's been shorting himself all along, we're all going to look pretty silly.
    The very plot of the Producers.

    But - shudder - that all went wrong. I mean right. I mean wrong.

    Springtime - for Donald - and Vladimir.
    Winter for Clinton and all.
    Springtime - for Trump and - Melania.
    And now let's build a great HYUGE wall.
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    MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 50,154

    GIN1138 said:

    Is Donald Trump mad?

    Is Donald Trump pretending to be mad because this is all just a publicity stunt and he doesn't want to be POTUS?

    Discuss.

    Donald Trump is a Democrat sleeper agent, trying his best to ensure Hillary wins the White House :lol:
    Didn't they used to be good friends? Explains it all....
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    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 54,074
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    ParistondaParistonda Posts: 1,819
    chestnut said:

    London effectively joins forces with Sturgeon in advocating regional visas.

    http://uk.reuters.com/article/uk-britain-eu-cityoflondon-idUKKCN12K15F?il=0

    Regional visas seems like an idea with merit. They have these kind of things in Australia for the various states. Not sure how reciprocity in EU states would work though... If a Frenchman has the right to live in London or Scotland, Londoners and Scots should have the right to move to Paris for example.
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    nunununu Posts: 6,024

    GIN1138 said:

    Is Donald Trump mad?

    Is Donald Trump pretending to be mad because this is all just a publicity stunt and he doesn't want to be POTUS?

    Discuss.

    Donald Trump is a Democrat sleeper agent, trying his best to ensure Hillary wins the White House :lol:
    Didn't they used to be good friends? Explains it all....
    She probably paid him....he was so poor he couldn't afford to pay Federal income taxes.

    https://icitizen.com/insights/tennessee-poll-results-october-2016-election/
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    JackWJackW Posts: 14,787
    Michigan - Fox2/Mitchell - Sample 1,102 - 18 Oct

    Clinton 53 .. Trump 41

    http://www.fox2detroit.com/news/local-news/212560344-story
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    NigelbNigelb Posts: 62,849

    GIN1138 said:

    Is Donald Trump mad?

    Is Donald Trump pretending to be mad because this is all just a publicity stunt and he doesn't want to be POTUS?

    Discuss.

    Donald Trump is a Democrat sleeper agent, trying his best to ensure Hillary wins the White House :lol:
    Didn't they used to be good friends? Explains it all....
    Now it all makes sense; that's how Trump knows the election is rigged.
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    JobabobJobabob Posts: 3,807
    rcs1000 said:
    QTWTAI the latter
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    HurstLlamaHurstLlama Posts: 9,098

    On early war in France, this may be of interest:
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HV2nIkqnGBI

    Thank you for that, Mr. D, a most entertaining video. What an excellent chap!
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    Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,013
    Mr. Llama, the Lindy Beige Youtube channel is full of excellence. Normally I wouldn't bother with such modernist nonsense, but did find it entertaining.

    He's also writing a graphic novel. About Hannibal. I imagine it will be the first graphic novel I buy.
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    PClippPClipp Posts: 2,138
    MP_SE said:

    Nick Clegg came across as borderline deranged on the Daily Politics. Tries to argue that voters were not aware that Brexit meant leaving the single market only for the BBC to play him a clip of David Cameron, George Osborne, Boris Johnson, Michael Gove and Andrea Leadsom claiming that it would.

    The problem is that they all claimed a thousand other horrors as well. Nobody believed them.

  • Options
    ParistondaParistonda Posts: 1,819
    edited October 2016
    GIN1138 said:

    Is Donald Trump mad?

    Is Donald Trump pretending to be mad because this is all just a publicity stunt and he doesn't want to be POTUS?

    Discuss.

    Everything about him boils down to the fact that he is a huge narcissist. That is why he is unable to comprehend he is destroying his chances - he doesn't see himself having done anything wrong, and so the only possible explanation is that someone else is sabotaging it for him. I think he genuinely believes the election is being rigged against him. He deserves to win and others are sabotaging him. The narcissism links back to his sexist views on women generally too, they are there purely to serve his needs.

    I don't think he actually cares deep down about roe v wade, about building walls and banning muslims, that's all just red meat for his supporters. His sexist views on women are genuine though, and that's why it has cut through with potential supporters I think.

    He's not just unfit to President, he's unfit to even lead the populist anti-globalist/far-right movement, he's not credible like Farage or Le Pen, not serious, and only believes in himself.

    So i'll go with genuinely mad, a complete narcissist who will certainly call foul play, and probably incite violence, when/if he loses on november 8th.
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    HurstLlamaHurstLlama Posts: 9,098
    rpjs said:

    rpjs said:


    To be fair, it's not like we were champing at the bit to go on the offensive and were held back by French dilatoriness either. I do feel that if we (the western allies) had fought for the Czechs in 1938 or actually gone on the offensive while the Wehrmacht were busy in Poland, Hitler would be just a historical footnote today.

    The UK was in no position to go to war in 1938 and in 1939 the situation was barely that much better. The idea that the UK and France could have conducted and offensive war against Germany in either year is laughable. There were not the troops, the aircraft, the logistics and, especially, not the mindset to do any such thing.

    Perhaps there should have been but that is a different argument and one which should mostly be directed at Paris.
    Ah, but neither was Germany in 1938. The OKW was terrified that the Sudeten Crisis would turn into a shooting war with the Czechs, who could have easily resisted an invasion with the state of the German forces in 1938 vs their defensible territory and border fortifications[1] long enough for the allies and/or the Soviets to get into gear and intervene.

    To be fair, the OKW were pretty lukewarm at the prospect of attacking Poland, at least until the Ribbentrop-Molotov pact gave them the security Stalin wouldn't intervene on the Poles' side, and then attacking France and the low countries in 1940. Hitler really was phenomenally lucky in the early years of the war: to a large extent the Nazi war machine before 1940 was strong but hollow shell. A bit more resistance and it could have crumbled to dust.

    [1] All lost at Munich, which made Hitler's subsequent invasion of the rump Czech state in March 1939 a pushover.
    I wouldn't disagree with much of that, Mr. rpjs, particularly how astonishingly lucky the Germans were in the Battle of France (in betting terms I think of it as a six race accumulator that actually came off). However, the Western Allies mindset was for a defensive war, there was no offensive capability.
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    SimonStClareSimonStClare Posts: 7,976
    PClipp said:

    MP_SE said:

    Nick Clegg came across as borderline deranged on the Daily Politics. Tries to argue that voters were not aware that Brexit meant leaving the single market only for the BBC to play him a clip of David Cameron, George Osborne, Boris Johnson, Michael Gove and Andrea Leadsom claiming that it would.

    The problem is that they all claimed a thousand other horrors as well. Nobody believed them.
    The point is that the public were told - whether or not they believed either side, is moot.
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    NigelbNigelb Posts: 62,849
    Meanwhile, perhaps more importantly, the Bangladesh test is nicely poised.

    Much depends on our tailenders tomorrow morning.
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    theakestheakes Posts: 842
    PC Clip. I am no lover of Mr Clegg but really. You quote him as saying "the voters". He could be right, because the voters do not necessarily think what "politicians" tell them. I personally know several folk who voted Leave because of immigration and did not involve the single market in their decision. Far from being "deranged" that might well suggest his argument has some credence.
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    ParistondaParistonda Posts: 1,819
    tyson said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Does anyone have the original French of wht Hollande said ?

    <<La Brexitanie - Douze points!>>
    Le, Brexit is masculine remember...
    In Italian it's not; la Brexit; Brexit is a girl

    It's also been verbified in french now - les anglais veulent brexiter, nous brexitons etc
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    HurstLlamaHurstLlama Posts: 9,098
    PClipp said:

    MP_SE said:

    Nick Clegg came across as borderline deranged on the Daily Politics. Tries to argue that voters were not aware that Brexit meant leaving the single market only for the BBC to play him a clip of David Cameron, George Osborne, Boris Johnson, Michael Gove and Andrea Leadsom claiming that it would.

    The problem is that they all claimed a thousand other horrors as well. Nobody believed them.

    Mr. Clipp, Have you read the Korski article mentioned repeatedly on the last thread? It does give, amongst many other things, a very credible view as to why the Leave Campaign was not believed.
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    ThreeQuidderThreeQuidder Posts: 6,133

    tyson said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Does anyone have the original French of wht Hollande said ?

    <<La Brexitanie - Douze points!>>
    Le, Brexit is masculine remember...
    In Italian it's not; la Brexit; Brexit is a girl

    It's also been verbified in french now - les anglais veulent brexiter, nous brexitons etc
    It's bad enough as a noun; it's abysmal as a verb.
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    AnneJGPAnneJGP Posts: 2,869

    On early war in France, this may be of interest:
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HV2nIkqnGBI

    Thank you for that, Mr. D, a most entertaining video. What an excellent chap!
    Seconded; thank you very much!
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    ThreeQuidderThreeQuidder Posts: 6,133

    PClipp said:

    MP_SE said:

    Nick Clegg came across as borderline deranged on the Daily Politics. Tries to argue that voters were not aware that Brexit meant leaving the single market only for the BBC to play him a clip of David Cameron, George Osborne, Boris Johnson, Michael Gove and Andrea Leadsom claiming that it would.

    The problem is that they all claimed a thousand other horrors as well. Nobody believed them.

    Mr. Clipp, Have you read the Korski article mentioned repeatedly on the last thread? It does give, amongst many other things, a very credible view as to why the Leave Campaign was not believed.
    Remain?
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    williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 48,149

    tyson said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Does anyone have the original French of wht Hollande said ?

    <<La Brexitanie - Douze points!>>
    Le, Brexit is masculine remember...
    In Italian it's not; la Brexit; Brexit is a girl

    It's also been verbified in french now - les anglais veulent brexiter, nous brexitons etc
    Je brexite
    Tu prends des risques
    Il se suicide
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    rpjsrpjs Posts: 3,787

    rpjs said:

    rpjs said:


    To be fair, it's not like we were champing at the bit to go on the offensive and were held back by French dilatoriness either. I do feel that if we (the western allies) had fought for the Czechs in 1938 or actually gone on the offensive while the Wehrmacht were busy in Poland, Hitler would be just a historical footnote today.

    The UK was in no position to go to war in 1938 and in 1939 the situation was barely that much better. The idea that the UK and France could have conducted and offensive war against Germany in either year is laughable. There were not the troops, the aircraft, the logistics and, especially, not the mindset to do any such thing.

    Perhaps there should have been but that is a different argument and one which should mostly be directed at Paris.
    Ah, but neither was Germany in 1938. The OKW was terrified that the Sudeten Crisis would turn into a shooting war with the Czechs, who could have easily resisted an invasion with the state of the German forces in 1938 vs their defensible territory and border fortifications[1] long enough for the allies and/or the Soviets to get into gear and intervene.

    To be fair, the OKW were pretty lukewarm at the prospect of attacking Poland, at least until the Ribbentrop-Molotov pact gave them the security Stalin wouldn't intervene on the Poles' side, and then attacking France and the low countries in 1940. Hitler really was phenomenally lucky in the early years of the war: to a large extent the Nazi war machine before 1940 was strong but hollow shell. A bit more resistance and it could have crumbled to dust.

    [1] All lost at Munich, which made Hitler's subsequent invasion of the rump Czech state in March 1939 a pushover.
    I wouldn't disagree with much of that, Mr. rpjs, particularly how astonishingly lucky the Germans were in the Battle of France (in betting terms I think of it as a six race accumulator that actually came off). However, the Western Allies mindset was for a defensive war, there was no offensive capability.
    I agree. I just feel if we'd had a just a bit more appetite for the offensive in 1938 - 40 the world would be a much different, perhaps better, place.
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    Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,013
    Miss JGP, you're most welcome.

    Lindy Beige is into classical as well as medieval and modern history, so there's often lots of very interesting stuff on his channel.
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    williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 48,149
    edited October 2016
    rpjs said:

    rpjs said:

    rpjs said:


    To be fair, it's not like we were champing at the bit to go on the offensive and were held back by French dilatoriness either. I do feel that if we (the western allies) had fought for the Czechs in 1938 or actually gone on the offensive while the Wehrmacht were busy in Poland, Hitler would be just a historical footnote today.

    The UK was in no position to go to war in 1938 and in 1939 the situation was barely that much better. The idea that the UK and France could have conducted and offensive war against Germany in either year is laughable. There were not the troops, the aircraft, the logistics and, especially, not the mindset to do any such thing.

    Perhaps there should have been but that is a different argument and one which should mostly be directed at Paris.
    Ah, but neither was Germany in 1938. The OKW was terrified that the Sudeten Crisis would turn into a shooting war with the Czechs, who could have easily resisted an invasion with the state of the German forces in 1938 vs their defensible territory and border fortifications[1] long enough for the allies and/or the Soviets to get into gear and intervene.

    To be fair, the OKW were pretty lukewarm at the prospect of attacking Poland, at least until the Ribbentrop-Molotov pact gave them the security Stalin wouldn't intervene on the Poles' side, and then attacking France and the low countries in 1940. Hitler really was phenomenally lucky in the early years of the war: to a large extent the Nazi war machine before 1940 was strong but hollow shell. A bit more resistance and it could have crumbled to dust.

    [1] All lost at Munich, which made Hitler's subsequent invasion of the rump Czech state in March 1939 a pushover.
    I wouldn't disagree with much of that, Mr. rpjs, particularly how astonishingly lucky the Germans were in the Battle of France (in betting terms I think of it as a six race accumulator that actually came off). However, the Western Allies mindset was for a defensive war, there was no offensive capability.
    I agree. I just feel if we'd had a just a bit more appetite for the offensive in 1938 - 40 the world would be a much different, perhaps better, place.
    The problem is that even if successful, the world would never fully know what horrors would have been avoided. The USA would probably have admonished the UK and France for 'imperialism' in a precursor to Suez.
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    foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548

    Further to the conversation earlier this afternoon, one of my assistants has just walked up to me and presented me with a piece of Turkish delight.

    My secretary did too. A gift from a grateful patient.

    The buggers must all be lurking here.
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    Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,013
    Dr. Foxinsox/Mr. Meeks, that's not weird.

    Weird is when a young lady slaps someone in public with a fish, whilst wearing a badge that has "I *heartsymbol* PB" on it.

    That was bloody odd.
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    JackWJackW Posts: 14,787
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    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 76,002
    Did the Democrats accept the 2000 US Election result, need to jog my memory on that one.
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    JackWJackW Posts: 14,787

    Dr. Foxinsox/Mr. Meeks, that's not weird.

    Weird is when a young lady slaps someone in public with a fish, whilst wearing a badge that has "I *heartsymbol* PB" on it.

    That was bloody odd.

    Fairly commonplace in Bedford according to OGH ....
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    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 76,002
    £347 looking to lay the Tories at 1.05 on Betfair.
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    Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,013
    Anyway, my eyes are going fuzzy, so I shall be off.

    Just a reminder that the times are all in the afternoon/evening for F1 this weekend (and will be for the next couple of races after too, as they're in Mexico and Brazil).
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    sladeslade Posts: 1,940
    Thanks to Mark Pack for this. If the LDs get 23.1% of the vote in Witney it is the best result in the seat this century. If they get 27.9% it is the best share of the vote in a Tory held bye-election since 2006. If they get 28.1% it is the best increase in the vote since 1993. Just shows how poor the resent record has been.
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    JackWJackW Posts: 14,787
    Pulpstar said:

    Did the Democrats accept the 2000 US Election result, need to jog my memory on that one.

    Yes.

    Vice-President Gore, as President of the Senate, was the man who actually certified the result.
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    Further to the conversation earlier this afternoon, one of my assistants has just walked up to me and presented me with a piece of Turkish delight.

    My secretary did too. A gift from a grateful patient.

    The buggers must all be lurking here.
    I don't recall you ever revealing your identity foxinsox?
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    JackWJackW Posts: 14,787
    edited October 2016
    National Tracker - Times-Picayune/Lucid - Sample 1,822 - 19 Oct

    Clinton 47 .. Trump 35

    https://luc.id/2016-presidential-tracker/
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    JackW said:

    National Tracker - Times-Picayune/Lucid - 19 Oct

    Clinton 47 .. Trump 35

    https://luc.id/2016-presidential-tracker/

    I don't believe for a moment that Trump will lose by 12 points. My feeling is 6 to 8 points (don't have any money on the result bar a Clinton win).
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    ChrisChris Posts: 11,141
    slade said:

    Thanks to Mark Pack for this. If the LDs get 23.1% of the vote in Witney it is the best result in the seat this century. If they get 27.9% it is the best share of the vote in a Tory held bye-election since 2006. If they get 28.1% it is the best increase in the vote since 1993. Just shows how poor the resent record has been.

    Doesn't sound as though Dr Pack is preparing his audience for a Lib Dem victory.
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    JackWJackW Posts: 14,787

    JackW said:

    National Tracker - Times-Picayune/Lucid - 19 Oct

    Clinton 47 .. Trump 35

    https://luc.id/2016-presidential-tracker/

    I don't believe for a moment that Trump will lose by 12 points. My feeling is 6 to 8 points (don't have any money on the result bar a Clinton win).
    I agree. Clinton +6-8 presently. If he continues to implode we might see him shave a few more points off his score - Around :

    Clinton 52 .. Trump 42 .. Others 6
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    IanB2IanB2 Posts: 47,504
    From downthread (JohnO and DH)

    If a political party wants to know who has voted (and the information can be useful, particularly if collected over a number of elections) they just inspect (or purchase a photocopy of) the marked register afterwards. Nowadays this shows who has and has not sent back their postal vote, as well. Telling data is simply too unreliable for this purpose, and of course doesn't help with postal votes.

    Telling is supposed to save the bother (and potential for annoyance) of calling on people who have already voted, when time is precious on polling day. But increasingly, with email, phone and SMS reminders, it can be easier to bother everyone rather than putting people outside polling stations all day collecting numbers. The view appears to be that even those put out to be reminded to vote, when they already have, will have forgotten their annoyance by the time the next election comes round. Particularly if they are thanked nicely for their support.
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    justin124justin124 Posts: 11,527

    taffys said:

    ''I wouldn't be at all sure of that. No reason to suppose that other EU voters don't at least share a similar mindset to the politicians they elect. ''

    you may well be right. Plenty of exciting elections ahead for us to find out!

    Such referendums as have been offered (e.g. on the European Constitution) suggest otherwise.

    As recently as the 2010 election, UKIP only polled 3%. Indeed, it was only in 2012 that they took off. For all that Britain had long had a Eurosceptic attitude, to those only paying cursory attention, outright withdrawalism would have looked like a minority opinion.
    They did not have a full slate of candidates in 2010. Had they fought every seat UKIP's vote share that year would have been more like 5%.
This discussion has been closed.