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  • FregglesFreggles Posts: 3,486

    Freggles said:

    You have to feel sorry for right wing women. They are apparently living in a culture where it's normal behaviour for men to:
    - brag about groping women without permission
    - walk in on 15 year olds while they are naked
    - insert their genitals into a dead pig's mouth
    And before anyone denies one of those, remember we are talking about what right wing women have defended as normal behaviour, not whether the accounts were accurate or not.

    The right wing women in my life get treated like queens and princesses and know where to deliver a verbal or physical blow if any scumbags take liberties.
    I'm glad to hear that this bizarre Stockholm syndrome is limited to a minority of right wing women, then.
  • Paul_BedfordshirePaul_Bedfordshire Posts: 3,632
    edited October 2016

    Jonathan said:

    Indigo said:

    FPT:

    It is the logical conclusion affirmed by the opening passage in the Treaty of Rome. It is no myth.

    You may construe it that way. I do not.
    And looking at the policy of France, Germany, and the U.K. within the EU over the last decade or so - neither do they.
    Happily what you construe is of only incidental interest ;)

    To quote Sir Thomas More

    The world must construe according to its wits; this court must construe according to the law.
    Your Brexiteering Utopia has very little chance of becoming reality. Hopefully you realise this before we 48 percenters are consigned to the Tower!
    You lost.
    We all lost.
    No, 52% of us won.
    Leave won a Pyrrhic victory that will destroy their case morally, intellectually and economically in the fullness of time.
    Keep dreaming William.
    One of the first casualties is your integrity given your prior vehement advocacy of the EEA option.
    I would prefer soft Brexit.

    But I would prefer hard Brexit a hundredfold to no Brexit.

    If it has to be hard Brexit though, I would hope our subsequent foreign policy is to undermine, subvert and destroy the EU, working with Putin to do so if necessary.
  • chestnut said:

    May be a hard Brexit is inevitable?

    George Eaton ✔ @georgeeaton
    EU president Donald Tusk: “The only real alternative to a hard Brexit is no Brexit." Europe's political priority is to avoid "soft" deal.

    Of course. He speaks the truth.
    There is Real Brexit or eternal subservience.
    I suspect that May will win a very substantial majority on a platform of Real Brexit in a general election next year. I also suspect that she is going to do things much more sharply than either the EU or SNP will be able to cope with. There is little point giving the initiative to them.
    But will she act quickly enough on the GE? She does seem to struggle thinking through the political strategy required to seize the initiative. Seems to prefer reacting to events.
  • nunununu Posts: 6,024
    JackW said:

    Nevada - Public Opinion Strategies - Sample 600 - 11-12 Oct

    Clinton 45 .. Trump 39

    http://www.ktnv.com/news/ralston/heck-hanging-onto-lead-trump-falling-behind-in-new-gop-poll

    Post debate and pre gropegate.
  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 21,555

    Jonathan said:

    Jonathan said:

    Indigo said:

    FPT:

    It is the logical conclusion affirmed by the opening passage in the Treaty of Rome. It is no myth.

    You may construe it that way. I do not.
    And looking at the policy of France, Germany, and the U.K. within the EU over the last decade or so - neither do they.
    Happily what you construe is of only incidental interest ;)

    To quote Sir Thomas More

    The world must construe according to its wits; this court must construe according to the law.
    Your Brexiteering Utopia has very little chance of becoming reality. Hopefully you realise this before we 48 percenters are consigned to the Tower!
    You lost.
    We all lost.
    Not at all. Proudest day of my life.

    Disappointing to see you've bought into the Remain camp wholesale.
    The way Brexit is playing out is hugely upsetting. The way May and Rudd played it last week was hugely damaging. I am very angry.

    I should not have to explain to friends it's safe to visit the UK.
    I can see you're angry. But it's still the same old Britain. The trouble is that Brexit is such a big event that any, and every, development can (and is) being directly attributed to it; it sells copy, and no news story can be overexaggerated.

    You can unpick virtually everything by looking at the detail; from the total non-story of marmitegate to so-called "surges" in hate crime.

    I expect we have a very bumpy ride ahead of us for the next 3 years.
    As for the same old Britain. Maybe. I certainly hope so. But the reality is is that's not how some people see it. And perceptions count.

    The govt needs to be more careful. Rhetoric about naming and shaming companies or the "citizen of the world" soundbite need to stop.

    I fully stand by my respect for you in the campaign. I am glad you are proud and happy.
  • brokenwheelbrokenwheel Posts: 3,352
    Freggles said:

    Freggles said:

    You have to feel sorry for right wing women. They are apparently living in a culture where it's normal behaviour for men to:
    - brag about groping women without permission
    - walk in on 15 year olds while they are naked
    - insert their genitals into a dead pig's mouth

    And before anyone denies one of those, remember we are talking about what right wing women have defended as normal behaviour, not whether the accounts were accurate or not.

    Remind me again, which parties have never elected a female leader?
    So women should be free to be whatever they want as long as it's a sex object or Tory leader? :lol:
    Well aparently in Labour you only get places as a woman by either fucking the leader or taking his thirty pieces of silver...
  • FFS...it appears the powers that be f##ked the procedure to ban these two from teaching.

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3836622/Two-teachers-Trojan-horse-school-allowed-classrooms.html
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 56,929

    I see "marmitegate" has resolved itself in barely 24 hours:

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-37650234

    I keep meaning to write a series of Python scripts to do real time inflation tracking. You could look at 100 products at five on-line supermarkets (and Amazon) and see how prices are trending on a day by day basis.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 59,994

    I see "marmitegate" has resolved itself in barely 24 hours:

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-37650234

    I am sure it won't stop Fasal Islam ScottP (re)tweeting about it.
    Marmite isn't even the hors d'oeuvres.

    We have three years of this nonsense.
  • JackWJackW Posts: 14,787
    Latest 538 Projections - Clinton - Trump

    Now Cast - 90.7 .. 9.3
    Polls Only - 87.0 .. 13.0
    Polls Plus - 84.3 .. 15.7

    http://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/2016-election-forecast/?ex_cid=rrpromo#plus
  • ThrakThrak Posts: 494
    Speedy said:

    Oh how wrong you are OGH.

    Only the Suffolk, North Carolina poll was done after the debate, you have to look at the date of the surveys.

    Using only the national polls done after the debate it's an average Hillary lead nationally of 3.6%.

    She is leading by 2 in N.Carolina, by 3 in Florida by 2 on average in Nevada, all consistent with a national lead for Hillary of around 4 points.

    You are behind the curve, the debate did wonders for Trump and cancelled the Tape.

    You are actually one step behind. Keep up! The step being the carefully laid trap in the debate where his denial of acting out his sexual domination fantasy has turned out to be a massive lie.

    The effect on the polls is emerging and will feed through over the weekend.
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 21,257

    Jonathan said:

    Indigo said:

    FPT:

    It is the logical conclusion affirmed by the opening passage in the Treaty of Rome. It is no myth.

    You may construe it that way. I do not.
    And looking at the policy of France, Germany, and the U.K. within the EU over the last decade or so - neither do they.
    Happily what you construe is of only incidental interest ;)

    To quote Sir Thomas More

    The world must construe according to its wits; this court must construe according to the law.
    Your Brexiteering Utopia has very little chance of becoming reality. Hopefully you realise this before we 48 percenters are consigned to the Tower!
    You lost.
    We all lost.
    No, 52% of us won.
    Leave won a Pyrrhic victory that will destroy their case morally, intellectually and economically in the fullness of time.
    Keep dreaming William.
    One of the first casualties is your integrity given your prior vehement advocacy of the EEA option.
    I would prefer soft Brexit.

    But I would prefer hard Brexit a hundredfold to no Brexit.

    If it has to be hard Brexit though, I would hope our subsequent foreign policy is to undermine, subvert and destroy the EU, working with Putin to do so if necessary.
    I really hope you are not representative.

    Allying with Putin might make sense from the comfort of your Biggleswade eyrie, but it would be a betrayal of everything this country stands for.
  • Freggles said:

    Freggles said:

    You have to feel sorry for right wing women. They are apparently living in a culture where it's normal behaviour for men to:
    - brag about groping women without permission
    - walk in on 15 year olds while they are naked
    - insert their genitals into a dead pig's mouth
    And before anyone denies one of those, remember we are talking about what right wing women have defended as normal behaviour, not whether the accounts were accurate or not.

    The right wing women in my life get treated like queens and princesses and know where to deliver a verbal or physical blow if any scumbags take liberties.
    I'm glad to hear that this bizarre Stockholm syndrome is limited to a minority of right wing women, then.
    You are clearly blissfully unaware of the problems women have had with leftie parties such as the lib Dems and the socialist workers party.
  • Freggles said:

    You have to feel sorry for right wing women. They are apparently living in a culture where it's normal behaviour for men to:
    - brag about groping women without permission
    - walk in on 15 year olds while they are naked
    - insert their genitals into a dead pig's mouth

    And before anyone denies one of those, remember we are talking about what right wing women have defended as normal behaviour, not whether the accounts were accurate or not.

    First is not something right wing women have defended it is something some women have. Just as some women have defended the left's repeated misogyny.

    Second I don't get the reference of but seems an unfortunate story many with teenagers can relate to. Conversely there's the other relatable story that Flora turned into their famous "wrestling" ad. I fail to see how this is political.

    Third is alleged university hijinks. Yes fairly normal and with no assault and in fact no women involved at all. So fail to see how that matters at all to women.

    On the other side you have parties that have never had female leaders and regularly have gender segregation in political rallies. That's infinitely worse than any alleged hijinks.
  • FregglesFreggles Posts: 3,486

    Freggles said:

    Freggles said:

    You have to feel sorry for right wing women. They are apparently living in a culture where it's normal behaviour for men to:
    - brag about groping women without permission
    - walk in on 15 year olds while they are naked
    - insert their genitals into a dead pig's mouth

    And before anyone denies one of those, remember we are talking about what right wing women have defended as normal behaviour, not whether the accounts were accurate or not.

    Remind me again, which parties have never elected a female leader?
    So women should be free to be whatever they want as long as it's a sex object or Tory leader? :lol:
    Well aparently in Labour you only get places as a woman by either fucking the leader or taking his thirty pieces of silver...
    Labour are a mess, doesn't make Trump any more acceptable
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 81,461
    edited October 2016
    rcs1000 said:

    I see "marmitegate" has resolved itself in barely 24 hours:

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-37650234

    I keep meaning to write a series of Python scripts to do real time inflation tracking. You could look at 100 products at five on-line supermarkets (and Amazon) and see how prices are trending on a day by day basis.
    Costco is probably the best tracker of base price, as they have a pretty much blanket policy of cost + 15% approach to pricing, rather than supermarkets that are constantly running loss leaders, 2 for 1s etc.

    Thus, pricing in there is very sensitive to changes. It is already noticeable, especially food source from the US.
  • ThreeQuidderThreeQuidder Posts: 6,133

    We are going to have inflation and ordinary people will suffer most. The inflation is being driven by Brexit.

    I'm not sure that's true - inflation has been stubbornly too low for years. So even if the Leave vote was the spark that caused inflation to rise, something following a Remain vote would still have triggered the same thing. You sound like Gordon Brown saying "it started in America".
  • IndigoIndigo Posts: 9,966

    Indigo said:

    May be a hard Brexit is inevitable?

    George Eaton ✔ @georgeeaton
    EU president Donald Tusk: “The only real alternative to a hard Brexit is no Brexit." Europe's political priority is to avoid "soft" deal.

    Think I might have mentioned it once of twice over the past six months ;) At this stage and after the promises made at the CPC the "No BrExit" option would result in pitchforks in the street which means eventually it's hard BrExit. That being the case is there any merit in pissing around with it for two years ?
    Yes absolutely there is because we will get a hard Brexit with some form of trade deal. No negotiations and we get no deal at all.
    I was under the impression that the A50 negotiations were just about formalising the divorce, who pay the rent on the TV, that sort of stuff. There may be a separate trade negotiation with the EU, but I was under the impression that was under a separate cover and could not be started until the A50 talks were complete. Conversely we cannot legally start trade talks with any other country until we have left the EU, so the faster we get out the door the faster we can start talking with australia, new zealand, canada etc. Obviously there is a balance to be struck here.
  • ThreeQuidderThreeQuidder Posts: 6,133
    Jonathan said:

    The govt needs to be more careful. Rhetoric about naming and shaming companies [...] need to stop.

    There was no such rhetoric from ministers.
  • Freggles said:

    You have to feel sorry for right wing women. They are apparently living in a culture where it's normal behaviour for men to:
    - brag about groping women without permission
    - walk in on 15 year olds while they are naked
    - insert their genitals into a dead pig's mouth
    And before anyone denies one of those, remember we are talking about what right wing women have defended as normal behaviour, not whether the accounts were accurate or not.

    The right wing women in my life get treated like queens and princesses and know where to deliver a verbal or physical blow if any scumbags take liberties.
    I hope the bruising wasn't too severe.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 56,929
    Freggles said:

    You have to feel sorry for right wing women. They are apparently living in a culture where it's normal behaviour for men to:
    - brag about groping women without permission
    - walk in on 15 year olds while they are naked
    - insert their genitals into a dead pig's mouth

    And before anyone denies one of those, remember we are talking about what right wing women have defended as normal behaviour, not whether the accounts were accurate or not.

    An ex-colleague of mine, who's been a major Republican donor and strident supporter on Facebook (against the tide of many Dems!), wrote a long piece about how she could not support Trump. I doubt she'll vote for Hillary, the question is whether she'll go down to the polling booth to vote for the downticket Republicans.

    (She's in NJ.)
  • OllyTOllyT Posts: 5,006

    On the days events....

    Cheers to Bob Dylan..... Poet for our times...

    Massive cheers to Jessica Ennis Hill. A better role model for modern Britain would be very hard to find. She had my vote for Spoty in 12 and 15 and will have it again this year. You were fab Jess!

    And jeers to Tesco. If the anglish poond drops by more than 15%, prices are going to go up. Period. I noticed petrol was up by 2p at my local BP on the way home. This is the cost of taking back control.

    We already knew that every unpopular decision would be blamed on the Leave vote, whether or not it had anything to do with it. A 10% price rise on a product made entirely within the UK has nothing at all to do with it...
    You mean like UKIP and their fellow-travellers blamed everything on the EU prior to June 23rd? You'd better get used to it, it is going to get a lot lot worse.
  • MortimerMortimer Posts: 14,114
    Jonathan said:

    Jonathan said:

    Indigo said:

    FPT:

    It is the logical conclusion affirmed by the opening passage in the Treaty of Rome. It is no myth.

    You may construe it that way. I do not.
    And looking at the policy of France, Germany, and the U.K. within the EU over the last decade or so - neither do they.
    Happily what you construe is of only incidental interest ;)

    To quote Sir Thomas More

    The world must construe according to its wits; this court must construe according to the law.
    Your Brexiteering Utopia has very little chance of becoming reality. Hopefully you realise this before we 48 percenters are consigned to the Tower!
    You lost.
    We all lost.
    Not at all. Proudest day of my life.

    Disappointing to see you've bought into the Remain camp wholesale.
    The way Brexit is playing out is hugely upsetting. The way May and Rudd played it last week was hugely damaging. I am very angry.

    I should not have to explain to friends it's safe to visit the UK.
    Quite, they should be able to work out for themselves.
  • alex.alex. Posts: 4,658
    edited October 2016
    How does the SNP currently square the economic circle of arguing that Single Market access (to the EU) is of fundamental importance to Scotland (and the UK), but Single Market access (to the UK) is not fundamentally important to Scotland? Aren't all economic arguments about the UK and the EU, magnified in relation to Scotland's and the UK several fold?
  • brokenwheelbrokenwheel Posts: 3,352
    edited October 2016
    Freggles said:

    Freggles said:

    Freggles said:

    You have to feel sorry for right wing women. They are apparently living in a culture where it's normal behaviour for men to:
    - brag about groping women without permission
    - walk in on 15 year olds while they are naked
    - insert their genitals into a dead pig's mouth

    And before anyone denies one of those, remember we are talking about what right wing women have defended as normal behaviour, not whether the accounts were accurate or not.

    Remind me again, which parties have never elected a female leader?
    So women should be free to be whatever they want as long as it's a sex object or Tory leader? :lol:
    Well aparently in Labour you only get places as a woman by either fucking the leader or taking his thirty pieces of silver...
    Labour are a mess, doesn't make Trump any more acceptable
    You were the one trying to make out it is some kind of left/right issue, I was just pointing out that is nonsense. Besides in many ways Trump isn't "right wing" by many usual definitions of the term, he's closer to (but I hate the term) "populist".
  • JonathanDJonathanD Posts: 2,400

    Sean_F said:

    Jonathan said:

    Jonathan said:

    Indigo said:

    FPT:

    It is the logical conclusion affirmed by the opening passage in the Treaty of Rome. It is no myth.

    You may construe it that way. I do not.
    And looking at the policy of France, Germany, and the U.K. within the EU over the last decade or so - neither do they.
    Happily what you construe is of only incidental interest ;)

    To quote Sir Thomas More

    The world must construe according to its wits; this court must construe according to the law.
    Your Brexiteering Utopia has very little chance of becoming reality. Hopefully you realise this before we 48 percenters are consigned to the Tower!
    You lost.
    We all lost.
    Labour especially and particularly Corbyn.
    British politics is two tramps fighting over the dregs in a can of Stella. The winner later discovers the dregs are piss.

    Enjoy your victory.
    I'm certainly enjoying our victory.
    A surprising number of people seem to think the EU is our lifeline and, if we cut the umbilical cord linking us to it, the whole UK economy will collapse.

    In reality, the worst that happens according to the most contorted Osbornomics available is (apart from the short-term disruption) that we grow slightly more slowly than we might have done had we stayed.
    Reversion to WTO, which now seems quite likely, Was associated with a GDP drop of 6% over 2 years and an increase in unemployment of 800,000. That's not a slight effect.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 42,753

    Sean_F said:

    Jonathan said:

    Jonathan said:

    Indigo said:

    FPT:

    It is the logical conclusion affirmed by the opening passage in the Treaty of Rome. It is no myth.

    You may construe it that way. I do not.
    And looking at the policy of France, Germany, and the U.K. within the EU over the last decade or so - neither do they.
    Happily what you construe is of only incidental interest ;)

    To quote Sir Thomas More

    The world must construe according to its wits; this court must construe according to the law.
    Your Brexiteering Utopia has very little chance of becoming reality. Hopefully you realise this before we 48 percenters are consigned to the Tower!
    You lost.
    We all lost.
    Labour especially and particularly Corbyn.
    British politics is two tramps fighting over the dregs in a can of Stella. The winner later discovers the dregs are piss.

    Enjoy your victory.
    I'm certainly enjoying our victory.
    A surprising number of people seem to think the EU is our lifeline and, if we cut the umbilical cord linking us to it, the whole UK economy will collapse.

    In reality, the worst that happens according to the most contorted Osbornomics available is (apart from the short-term disruption) that we grow slightly more slowly than we might have done had we stayed.
    What a bunch of drama queens.

    Very few people see the EU as our lifeline, just that it was better for us to be a voluntary member of a club, abide by its rules which we helped to formulate, and benefit greatly thereby.

    Of course some of it is quite nuanced and therefore I wouldn't expect everyone to understand those benefits. No offence.

    I don't think it's a calamity. I view Brexit just as I would and have a Labour Party GE victory. A shame and bad for the country but we will get by and most people won't notice that they are worse off.

    Of course in this case we have the phantom "sovereignty" card that the winners also play which contributes to their clouded judgement.
  • IndigoIndigo Posts: 9,966

    Freggles said:

    Freggles said:

    You have to feel sorry for right wing women. They are apparently living in a culture where it's normal behaviour for men to:
    - brag about groping women without permission
    - walk in on 15 year olds while they are naked
    - insert their genitals into a dead pig's mouth

    And before anyone denies one of those, remember we are talking about what right wing women have defended as normal behaviour, not whether the accounts were accurate or not.

    Remind me again, which parties have never elected a female leader?
    So women should be free to be whatever they want as long as it's a sex object or Tory leader? :lol:
    Well aparently in Labour you only get places as a woman by either fucking the leader or taking his thirty pieces of silver...
    Isnt it a bit ironic to talk about the shamelessness of right-wing women in the same week as we get the new Shadow Attorney General voting in favour of the snoopers charter.
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 21,257
    I see Tusk has suggested it's hard Brexit or no Brexit. Although in its way a reflection of our own hardline stance, this doesn't seem helpful.

    Ultimately we need an agreement to work together, not a beggar thy neighbour policy.
  • Indigo said:

    Indigo said:

    May be a hard Brexit is inevitable?

    George Eaton ✔ @georgeeaton
    EU president Donald Tusk: “The only real alternative to a hard Brexit is no Brexit." Europe's political priority is to avoid "soft" deal.

    Think I might have mentioned it once of twice over the past six months ;) At this stage and after the promises made at the CPC the "No BrExit" option would result in pitchforks in the street which means eventually it's hard BrExit. That being the case is there any merit in pissing around with it for two years ?
    Yes absolutely there is because we will get a hard Brexit with some form of trade deal. No negotiations and we get no deal at all.
    I was under the impression that the A50 negotiations were just about formalising the divorce, who pay the rent on the TV, that sort of stuff. There may be a separate trade negotiation with the EU, but I was under the impression that was under a separate cover and could not be started until the A50 talks were complete. Conversely we cannot legally start trade talks with any other country until we have left the EU, so the faster we get out the door the faster we can start talking with australia, new zealand, canada etc. Obviously there is a balance to be struck here.
    No Article 50 vaguely describes negotiating the future relationship between the EU and the departing nation. If the future relationship is a trade deal it makes sense to negotiate that during the A50 window so we don't end up in WTO limbo between EU membership and the new deal being agreed.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 56,929
    Indigo said:

    Indigo said:

    May be a hard Brexit is inevitable?

    George Eaton ✔ @georgeeaton
    EU president Donald Tusk: “The only real alternative to a hard Brexit is no Brexit." Europe's political priority is to avoid "soft" deal.

    Think I might have mentioned it once of twice over the past six months ;) At this stage and after the promises made at the CPC the "No BrExit" option would result in pitchforks in the street which means eventually it's hard BrExit. That being the case is there any merit in pissing around with it for two years ?
    Yes absolutely there is because we will get a hard Brexit with some form of trade deal. No negotiations and we get no deal at all.
    I was under the impression that the A50 negotiations were just about formalising the divorce, who pay the rent on the TV, that sort of stuff. There may be a separate trade negotiation with the EU, but I was under the impression that was under a separate cover and could not be started until the A50 talks were complete. Conversely we cannot legally start trade talks with any other country until we have left the EU, so the faster we get out the door the faster we can start talking with australia, new zealand, canada etc. Obviously there is a balance to be struck here.
    It is correct that 'divorce' and trade discussion agreements are separate. However, they will be parallel discussions because they have bearing on each other.
  • IndigoIndigo Posts: 9,966
    JonathanD said:

    Sean_F said:

    Jonathan said:

    Jonathan said:

    Indigo said:

    FPT:

    It is the logical conclusion affirmed by the opening passage in the Treaty of Rome. It is no myth.

    You may construe it that way. I do not.
    And looking at the policy of France, Germany, and the U.K. within the EU over the last decade or so - neither do they.
    Happily what you construe is of only incidental interest ;)

    To quote Sir Thomas More

    The world must construe according to its wits; this court must construe according to the law.
    Your Brexiteering Utopia has very little chance of becoming reality. Hopefully you realise this before we 48 percenters are consigned to the Tower!
    You lost.
    We all lost.
    Labour especially and particularly Corbyn.
    British politics is two tramps fighting over the dregs in a can of Stella. The winner later discovers the dregs are piss.

    Enjoy your victory.
    I'm certainly enjoying our victory.
    A surprising number of people seem to think the EU is our lifeline and, if we cut the umbilical cord linking us to it, the whole UK economy will collapse.

    In reality, the worst that happens according to the most contorted Osbornomics available is (apart from the short-term disruption) that we grow slightly more slowly than we might have done had we stayed.
    Reversion to WTO, which now seems quite likely, Was associated with a GDP drop of 6% over 2 years and an increase in unemployment of 800,000. That's not a slight effect.
    That is about the same economic effect as a Labour GE victory...
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 56,929
    As an aside, it is worth remembering that the EU's EUR20bn bill for Britain's future liabilities is largely an attempt to neutralise the UK's inevitable demand that is owed 14% of the EU's net assets, our share of which (at face value, which may be optimistic given some of it is Greek government bonds) is nust north of EUR30bn.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 42,753
    rcs1000 said:

    Freggles said:

    You have to feel sorry for right wing women. They are apparently living in a culture where it's normal behaviour for men to:
    - brag about groping women without permission
    - walk in on 15 year olds while they are naked
    - insert their genitals into a dead pig's mouth

    And before anyone denies one of those, remember we are talking about what right wing women have defended as normal behaviour, not whether the accounts were accurate or not.

    An ex-colleague of mine, who's been a major Republican donor and strident supporter on Facebook (against the tide of many Dems!), wrote a long piece about how she could not support Trump. I doubt she'll vote for Hillary, the question is whether she'll go down to the polling booth to vote for the downticket Republicans.

    (She's in NJ.)
    It wasn't marybeth, was it?
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 37,141
    Freggles said:

    Freggles said:

    Freggles said:

    You have to feel sorry for right wing women. They are apparently living in a culture where it's normal behaviour for men to:
    - brag about groping women without permission
    - walk in on 15 year olds while they are naked
    - insert their genitals into a dead pig's mouth

    And before anyone denies one of those, remember we are talking about what right wing women have defended as normal behaviour, not whether the accounts were accurate or not.

    Remind me again, which parties have never elected a female leader?
    So women should be free to be whatever they want as long as it's a sex object or Tory leader? :lol:
    Well aparently in Labour you only get places as a woman by either fucking the leader or taking his thirty pieces of silver...
    Labour are a mess, doesn't make Trump any more acceptable
    Few right wingers on this site do regard Trump's behaviour as acceptable.

    Misogyny can be found just as much on the left as the right, as MP's like Ruth Smeeth, Charlotte Leslie, and Esther McVey will testify.
  • 619619 Posts: 1,784
    https://twitter.com/gavinsblog/status/786626297489399809

    Brilliant letter back to trump from the NYT
  • ThreeQuidderThreeQuidder Posts: 6,133
    OllyT said:

    On the days events....

    Cheers to Bob Dylan..... Poet for our times...

    Massive cheers to Jessica Ennis Hill. A better role model for modern Britain would be very hard to find. She had my vote for Spoty in 12 and 15 and will have it again this year. You were fab Jess!

    And jeers to Tesco. If the anglish poond drops by more than 15%, prices are going to go up. Period. I noticed petrol was up by 2p at my local BP on the way home. This is the cost of taking back control.

    We already knew that every unpopular decision would be blamed on the Leave vote, whether or not it had anything to do with it. A 10% price rise on a product made entirely within the UK has nothing at all to do with it...
    You mean like UKIP and their fellow-travellers blamed everything on the EU prior to June 23rd? You'd better get used to it, it is going to get a lot lot worse.
    Yes, indeed.

    Most sensible people will, of course, ignore it just like they ignored that.
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 21,257
    Indigo said:

    JonathanD said:

    Sean_F said:

    Jonathan said:

    Jonathan said:

    Indigo said:

    FPT:

    It is the logical conclusion affirmed by the opening passage in the Treaty of Rome. It is no myth.

    You may construe it that way. I do not.
    And looking at the policy of France, Germany, and the U.K. within the EU over the last decade or so - neither do they.
    Happily what you construe is of only incidental interest ;)

    To quote Sir Thomas More

    The world must construe according to its wits; this court must construe according to the law.
    Your Brexiteering Utopia has very little chance of becoming reality. Hopefully you realise this before we 48 percenters are consigned to the Tower!
    You lost.
    We all lost.
    Labour especially and particularly Corbyn.
    British politics is two tramps fighting over the dregs in a can of Stella. The winner later discovers the dregs are piss.

    Enjoy your victory.
    I'm certainly enjoying our victory.
    A surprising number of people seem to think the EU is our lifeline and, if we cut the umbilical cord linking us to it, the whole UK economy will collapse.

    In reality, the worst that happens according to the most contorted Osbornomics available is (apart from the short-term disruption) that we grow slightly more slowly than we might have done had we stayed.
    Reversion to WTO, which now seems quite likely, Was associated with a GDP drop of 6% over 2 years and an increase in unemployment of 800,000. That's not a slight effect.
    That is about the same economic effect as a Labour GE victory...
    Only if it is Labour circa 1983 or indeed 2016.
  • ThreeQuidderThreeQuidder Posts: 6,133
    JonathanD said:

    Sean_F said:

    Jonathan said:

    Jonathan said:

    Indigo said:

    FPT:

    It is the logical conclusion affirmed by the opening passage in the Treaty of Rome. It is no myth.

    You may construe it that way. I do not.
    And looking at the policy of France, Germany, and the U.K. within the EU over the last decade or so - neither do they.
    Happily what you construe is of only incidental interest ;)

    To quote Sir Thomas More

    The world must construe according to its wits; this court must construe according to the law.
    Your Brexiteering Utopia has very little chance of becoming reality. Hopefully you realise this before we 48 percenters are consigned to the Tower!
    You lost.
    We all lost.
    Labour especially and particularly Corbyn.
    British politics is two tramps fighting over the dregs in a can of Stella. The winner later discovers the dregs are piss.

    Enjoy your victory.
    I'm certainly enjoying our victory.
    A surprising number of people seem to think the EU is our lifeline and, if we cut the umbilical cord linking us to it, the whole UK economy will collapse.

    In reality, the worst that happens according to the most contorted Osbornomics available is (apart from the short-term disruption) that we grow slightly more slowly than we might have done had we stayed.
    Reversion to WTO, which now seems quite likely, Was associated with a GDP drop of 6% over 2 years and an increase in unemployment of 800,000. That's not a slight effect.
    A drop, or a lower increase?
  • Andrew Neil ✔ @afneil
    The media went mad on the Marmite non-story today. It needs to lie down in a dark room and ponder, before making the same mistake again.
  • 619619 Posts: 1,784
    Clinton's chances of winning some key states, per Pollster model:
    PA/CO 98%
    NH 95%
    WI 93%
    FL 89%
    OH 80%
    NV/NC 67%
  • IndigoIndigo Posts: 9,966

    Indigo said:

    JonathanD said:

    Sean_F said:

    Jonathan said:

    Jonathan said:

    Indigo said:

    FPT:

    It is the logical conclusion affirmed by the opening passage in the Treaty of Rome. It is no myth.

    You may construe it that way. I do not.
    And looking at the policy of France, Germany, and the U.K. within the EU over the last decade or so - neither do they.
    Happily what you construe is of only incidental interest ;)

    To quote Sir Thomas More

    The world must construe according to its wits; this court must construe according to the law.
    Your Brexiteering Utopia has very little chance of becoming reality. Hopefully you realise this before we 48 percenters are consigned to the Tower!
    You lost.
    We all lost.
    Labour especially and particularly Corbyn.
    British politics is two tramps fighting over the dregs in a can of Stella. The winner later discovers the dregs are piss.

    Enjoy your victory.
    I'm certainly enjoying our victory.
    A surprising number of people seem to think the EU is our lifeline and, if we cut the umbilical cord linking us to it, the whole UK economy will collapse.

    In reality, the worst that happens according to the most contorted Osbornomics available is (apart from the short-term disruption) that we grow slightly more slowly than we might have done had we stayed.
    Reversion to WTO, which now seems quite likely, Was associated with a GDP drop of 6% over 2 years and an increase in unemployment of 800,000. That's not a slight effect.
    That is about the same economic effect as a Labour GE victory...
    Only if it is Labour circa 1983 or indeed 2016.
    Or late era Gordon Brown.
  • Jonathan said:

    Indigo said:

    FPT:

    It is the logical conclusion affirmed by the opening passage in the Treaty of Rome. It is no myth.

    You may construe it that way. I do not.
    And looking at the policy of France, Germany, and the U.K. within the EU over the last decade or so - neither do they.
    Happily what you construe is of only incidental interest ;)

    To quote Sir Thomas More

    The world must construe according to its wits; this court must construe according to the law.
    Your Brexiteering Utopia has very little chance of becoming reality. Hopefully you realise this before we 48 percenters are consigned to the Tower!
    You lost.
    We all lost.
    No, 52% of us won.
    Leave won a Pyrrhic victory that will destroy their case morally, intellectually and economically in the fullness of time.
    Keep dreaming William.
    One of the first casualties is your integrity given your prior vehement advocacy of the EEA option.
    I would prefer soft Brexit.

    But I would prefer hard Brexit a hundredfold to no Brexit.

    If it has to be hard Brexit though, I would hope our subsequent foreign policy is to undermine, subvert and destroy the EU, working with Putin to do so if necessary.
    I really hope you are not representative.

    Allying with Putin might make sense from the comfort of your Biggleswade eyrie, but it would be a betrayal of everything this country stands for.
    Oh come off it. I may have been engaging in hyperbole but divide and rule has been UK policy for centuries in Europe - and we allied with Stalin who makes Putin look like a pussycat.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 42,753
    Indigo said:

    JonathanD said:

    Sean_F said:

    Jonathan said:

    Jonathan said:

    Indigo said:

    FPT:

    It is the logical conclusion affirmed by the opening passage in the Treaty of Rome. It is no myth.

    You may construe it that way. I do not.
    And looking at the policy of France, Germany, and the U.K. within the EU over the last decade or so - neither do they.
    Happily what you construe is of only incidental interest ;)

    To quote Sir Thomas More

    The world must construe according to its wits; this court must construe according to the law.
    Your Brexiteering Utopia has very little chance of becoming reality. Hopefully you realise this before we 48 percenters are consigned to the Tower!
    You lost.
    We all lost.
    Labour especially and particularly Corbyn.
    British politics is two tramps fighting over the dregs in a can of Stella. The winner later discovers the dregs are piss.

    Enjoy your victory.
    I'm certainly enjoying our victory.
    A surprising number of people seem to think the EU is our lifeline and, if we cut the umbilical cord linking us to it, the whole UK economy will collapse.

    In reality, the worst that happens according to the most contorted Osbornomics available is (apart from the short-term disruption) that we grow slightly more slowly than we might have done had we stayed.
    Reversion to WTO, which now seems quite likely, Was associated with a GDP drop of 6% over 2 years and an increase in unemployment of 800,000. That's not a slight effect.
    That is about the same economic effect as a Labour GE victory...
    Ah didn't see that. Yes exactly. As I said above: just like a Labour victory. Brexit is just like a Labour victory.

    I really don't need to fill in the details of how that plays out in any number of ways.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 42,753
    Indigo said:

    Indigo said:

    JonathanD said:

    Sean_F said:

    Jonathan said:

    Jonathan said:

    Indigo said:

    FPT:

    It is the logical conclusion affirmed by the opening passage in the Treaty of Rome. It is no myth.

    You may construe it that way. I do not.
    And looking at the policy of France, Germany, and the U.K. within the EU over the last decade or so - neither do they.
    Happily what you construe is of only incidental interest ;)

    To quote Sir Thomas More

    The world must construe according to its wits; this court must construe according to the law.
    Your Brexiteering Utopia has very little chance of becoming reality. Hopefully you realise this before we 48 percenters are consigned to the Tower!
    You lost.
    We all lost.
    Labour especially and particularly Corbyn.
    British politics is two tramps fighting over the dregs in a can of Stella. The winner later discovers the dregs are piss.

    Enjoy your victory.
    I'm certainly enjoying our victory.
    A surprising number of people seem to think the EU is our lifeline and, if we cut the umbilical cord linking us to it, the whole UK economy will collapse.

    In reality, the worst that happens according to the most contorted Osbornomics available is (apart from the short-term disruption) that we grow slightly more slowly than we might have done had we stayed.
    Reversion to WTO, which now seems quite likely, Was associated with a GDP drop of 6% over 2 years and an increase in unemployment of 800,000. That's not a slight effect.
    That is about the same economic effect as a Labour GE victory...
    Only if it is Labour circa 1983 or indeed 2016.
    Or late era Gordon Brown.
    Or early era Gordon Brown.
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 21,257

    Jonathan said:

    Indigo said:

    FPT:

    It is the logical conclusion affirmed by the opening passage in the Treaty of Rome. It is no myth.

    You may construe it that way. I do not.
    And looking at the policy of France, Germany, and the U.K. within the EU over the last decade or so - neither do they.
    Happily what you construe is of only incidental interest ;)

    To quote Sir Thomas More

    The world must construe according to its wits; this court must construe according to the law.
    Your Brexiteering Utopia has very little chance of becoming reality. Hopefully you realise this before we 48 percenters are consigned to the Tower!
    You lost.
    We all lost.
    No, 52% of us won.
    Leave won a Pyrrhic victory that will destroy their case morally, intellectually and economically in the fullness of time.
    Keep dreaming William.
    One of the first casualties is your integrity given your prior vehement advocacy of the EEA option.
    I would prefer soft Brexit.

    But I would prefer hard Brexit a hundredfold to no Brexit.

    If it has to be hard Brexit though, I would hope our subsequent foreign policy is to undermine, subvert and destroy the EU, working with Putin to do so if necessary.
    I really hope you are not representative.

    Allying with Putin might make sense from the comfort of your Biggleswade eyrie, but it would be a betrayal of everything this country stands for.
    Oh come off it. I may have been engaging in hyperbole but divide and rule has been UK policy for centuries in Europe - and we allied with Stalin who makes Putin look like a pussycat.
    Brexit of course leaves the continent less divided than ever. Oops.
  • rcs1000 said:

    As an aside, it is worth remembering that the EU's EUR20bn bill for Britain's future liabilities is largely an attempt to neutralise the UK's inevitable demand that is owed 14% of the EU's net assets, our share of which (at face value, which may be optimistic given some of it is Greek government bonds) is nust north of EUR30bn.

    Yes and that point seems to be overlooked in the recent FT article AFAIK. Odd that hacks do this in what is supposed to be a paper aiming to inform.
  • Moses_Moses_ Posts: 4,865

    I see "marmitegate" has resolved itself in barely 24 hours:

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-37650234

    I am sure it won't stop Fasal Islam ScottP (re)tweeting about it.
    :smile:
    What does Pasty_Scott do for a living?

    Tim late of this parish used to call him " Scot n'paste"
  • Sean_F said:

    Freggles said:

    Freggles said:

    Freggles said:

    You have to feel sorry for right wing women. They are apparently living in a culture where it's normal behaviour for men to:
    - brag about groping women without permission
    - walk in on 15 year olds while they are naked
    - insert their genitals into a dead pig's mouth

    And before anyone denies one of those, remember we are talking about what right wing women have defended as normal behaviour, not whether the accounts were accurate or not.

    Remind me again, which parties have never elected a female leader?
    So women should be free to be whatever they want as long as it's a sex object or Tory leader? :lol:
    Well aparently in Labour you only get places as a woman by either fucking the leader or taking his thirty pieces of silver...
    Labour are a mess, doesn't make Trump any more acceptable
    Few right wingers on this site do regard Trump's behaviour as acceptable.

    Misogyny can be found just as much on the left as the right, as MP's like Ruth Smeeth, Charlotte Leslie, and Esther McVey will testify.
    add in Momentum's treatment of many female Labour MPs.
  • I see Tusk has suggested it's hard Brexit or no Brexit. Although in its way a reflection of our own hardline stance, this doesn't seem helpful.

    Ultimately we need an agreement to work together, not a beggar thy neighbour policy.

    I agree entirely with you on that.
  • CD13CD13 Posts: 6,364
    It seems most Remainers have come to terms with Leave now. The odd exceptions seem to be the younger ones to whom long sulks are a habit.

    It might be interesting to check the demographics of the remaining bitter Remainers. I suspect they'll be young and/or suffering from a superiority complex. It's only as you get older you develop more self-awareness.

    So treat them lightly, they're suffering and some may never recover without counselling.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 56,929
    edited October 2016

    rcs1000 said:

    As an aside, it is worth remembering that the EU's EUR20bn bill for Britain's future liabilities is largely an attempt to neutralise the UK's inevitable demand that is owed 14% of the EU's net assets, our share of which (at face value, which may be optimistic given some of it is Greek government bonds) is nust north of EUR30bn.

    Yes and that point seems to be overlooked in the recent FT article AFAIK. Odd that hacks do this in what is supposed to be a paper aiming to inform.
    I have this terrible fear that David Davis will announce he has victoriously achieved a full return of EUR30bn of assets.

    Upon closer inspection it will turn out that we've accepted it all in Greek Government bonds at par...
  • JonathanDJonathanD Posts: 2,400

    JonathanD said:

    Sean_F said:

    Jonathan said:

    Jonathan said:

    Indigo said:

    FPT:

    It is the logical conclusion affirmed by the opening passage in the Treaty of Rome. It is no myth.

    You may construe it that way. I do not.
    And looking at the policy of France, Germany, and the U.K. within the EU over the last decade or so - neither do they.
    Happily what you construe is of only incidental interest ;)

    To quote Sir Thomas More

    The world must construe according to its wits; this court must construe according to the law.
    Your Brexiteering Utopia has very little chance of becoming reality. Hopefully you realise this before we 48 percenters are consigned to the Tower!
    You lost.
    We all lost.
    Labour especially and particularly Corbyn.
    British politics is two tramps fighting over the dregs in a can of Stella. The winner later discovers the dregs are piss.

    Enjoy your victory.
    I'm certainly enjoying our victory.
    A surprising number of people seem to think the EU is our lifeline and, if we cut the umbilical cord linking us to it, the whole UK economy will collapse.

    In reality, the worst that happens according to the most contorted Osbornomics available is (apart from the short-term disruption) that we grow slightly more slowly than we might have done had we stayed.
    Reversion to WTO, which now seems quite likely, Was associated with a GDP drop of 6% over 2 years and an increase in unemployment of 800,000. That's not a slight effect.
    A drop, or a lower increase?
    A drop from the baseline GDP. I suspect some of the strain will be accommodated by allowing the deficit to start increasing again.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 59,994
    JonathanD said:

    Sean_F said:

    Jonathan said:

    Jonathan said:

    Indigo said:

    FPT:

    It is the logical conclusion affirmed by the opening passage in the Treaty of Rome. It is no myth.

    You may construe it that way. I do not.
    And looking at the policy of France, Germany, and the U.K. within the EU over the last decade or so - neither do they.
    Happily what you construe is of only incidental interest ;)

    To quote Sir Thomas More

    The world must construe according to its wits; this court must construe according to the law.
    Your Brexiteering Utopia has very little chance of becoming reality. Hopefully you realise this before we 48 percenters are consigned to the Tower!
    You lost.
    We all lost.
    Labour especially and particularly Corbyn.
    British politics is two tramps fighting over the dregs in a can of Stella. The winner later discovers the dregs are piss.

    Enjoy your victory.
    I'm certainly enjoying our victory.
    A surprising number of people seem to think the EU is our lifeline and, if we cut the umbilical cord linking us to it, the whole UK economy will collapse.

    In reality, the worst that happens according to the most contorted Osbornomics available is (apart from the short-term disruption) that we grow slightly more slowly than we might have done had we stayed.
    Reversion to WTO, which now seems quite likely, Was associated with a GDP drop of 6% over 2 years and an increase in unemployment of 800,000. That's not a slight effect.
    Indeed it wouldn't be. But it's bollocks.
  • JonathanDJonathanD Posts: 2,400

    JonathanD said:

    Sean_F said:

    Jonathan said:

    Jonathan said:

    Indigo said:

    FPT:

    It is the logical conclusion affirmed by the opening passage in the Treaty of Rome. It is no myth.

    You may construe it that way. I do not.
    And looking at the policy of France, Germany, and the U.K. within the EU over the last decade or so - neither do they.
    Happily what you construe is of only incidental interest ;)

    To quote Sir Thomas More

    The world must construe according to its wits; this court must construe according to the law.
    Your Brexiteering Utopia has very little chance of becoming reality. Hopefully you realise this before we 48 percenters are consigned to the Tower!
    You lost.
    We all lost.
    Labour especially and particularly Corbyn.
    British politics is two tramps fighting over the dregs in a can of Stella. The winner later discovers the dregs are piss.

    Enjoy your victory.
    I'm certainly enjoying our victory.
    A surprising number of people seem to think the EU is our lifeline and, if we cut the umbilical cord linking us to it, the whole UK economy will collapse.

    In reality, the worst that happens according to the most contorted Osbornomics available is (apart from the short-term disruption) that we grow slightly more slowly than we might have done had we stayed.
    Reversion to WTO, which now seems quite likely, Was associated with a GDP drop of 6% over 2 years and an increase in unemployment of 800,000. That's not a slight effect.
    A drop, or a lower increase?
    A drop from the baseline GDP. I suspect some of the strain will be accommodated by allowing the deficit to start increasing again.
  • JonathanDJonathanD Posts: 2,400

    JonathanD said:

    Sean_F said:

    Jonathan said:

    Jonathan said:

    Indigo said:

    FPT:

    It is the logical conclusion affirmed by the opening passage in the Treaty of Rome. It is no myth.

    You may construe it that way. I do not.
    And looking at the policy of France, Germany, and the U.K. within the EU over the last decade or so - neither do they.
    Happily what you construe is of only incidental interest ;)

    To quote Sir Thomas More

    The world must construe according to its wits; this court must construe according to the law.
    Your Brexiteering Utopia has very little chance of becoming reality. Hopefully you realise this before we 48 percenters are consigned to the Tower!
    You lost.
    We all lost.
    Labour especially and particularly Corbyn.
    British politics is two tramps fighting over the dregs in a can of Stella. The winner later discovers the dregs are piss.

    Enjoy your victory.
    I'm certainly enjoying our victory.
    A surprising number of people seem to think the EU is our lifeline and, if we cut the umbilical cord linking us to it, the whole UK economy will collapse.

    In reality, the worst that happens according to the most contorted Osbornomics available is (apart from the short-term disruption) that we grow slightly more slowly than we might have done had we stayed.
    Reversion to WTO, which now seems quite likely, Was associated with a GDP drop of 6% over 2 years and an increase in unemployment of 800,000. That's not a slight effect.
    A drop, or a lower increase?
    A drop from the baseline GDP. I suspect some of the strain will be accommodated by allowing the deficit to start increasing again.
  • JonathanDJonathanD Posts: 2,400

    JonathanD said:

    Sean_F said:

    Jonathan said:

    Jonathan said:

    Indigo said:

    FPT:

    It is the logical conclusion affirmed by the opening passage in the Treaty of Rome. It is no myth.

    You may construe it that way. I do not.
    And looking at the policy of France, Germany, and the U.K. within the EU over the last decade or so - neither do they.
    Happily what you construe is of only incidental interest ;)

    To quote Sir Thomas More

    The world must construe according to its wits; this court must construe according to the law.
    Your Brexiteering Utopia has very little chance of becoming reality. Hopefully you realise this before we 48 percenters are consigned to the Tower!
    You lost.
    We all lost.
    Labour especially and particularly Corbyn.
    British politics is two tramps fighting over the dregs in a can of Stella. The winner later discovers the dregs are piss.

    Enjoy your victory.
    I'm certainly enjoying our victory.
    A surprising number of people seem to think the EU is our lifeline and, if we cut the umbilical cord linking us to it, the whole UK economy will collapse.

    In reality, the worst that happens according to the most contorted Osbornomics available is (apart from the short-term disruption) that we grow slightly more slowly than we might have done had we stayed.
    Reversion to WTO, which now seems quite likely, Was associated with a GDP drop of 6% over 2 years and an increase in unemployment of 800,000. That's not a slight effect.
    A drop, or a lower increase?
    A drop from the baseline GDP. I suspect some of the strain will be accommodated by allowing the deficit to start increasing again.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,706
    edited October 2016
    619 said:

    https://twitter.com/gavinsblog/status/786626297489399809

    Brilliant letter back to trump from the NYT

    Still prefer the reply in Arkell-v-Pressdram but this is pretty close.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 59,994
    Jonathan said:

    Jonathan said:

    Jonathan said:

    Indigo said:

    FPT:

    It is the logical conclusion affirmed by the opening passage in the Treaty of Rome. It is no myth.

    You may construe it that way. I do not.
    And looking at the policy of France, Germany, and the U.K. within the EU over the last decade or so - neither do they.
    Happily what you construe is of only incidental interest ;)

    To quote Sir Thomas More

    The world must construe according to its wits; this court must construe according to the law.
    Your Brexiteering Utopia has very little chance of becoming reality. Hopefully you realise this before we 48 percenters are consigned to the Tower!
    You lost.
    We all lost.
    Not at all. Proudest day of my life.

    Disappointing to see you've bought into the Remain camp wholesale.
    The way Brexit is playing out is hugely upsetting. The way May and Rudd played it last week was hugely damaging. I am very angry.

    I should not have to explain to friends it's safe to visit the UK.
    I can see you're angry. But it's still the same old Britain. The trouble is that Brexit is such a big event that any, and every, development can (and is) being directly attributed to it; it sells copy, and no news story can be overexaggerated.

    You can unpick virtually everything by looking at the detail; from the total non-story of marmitegate to so-called "surges" in hate crime.

    I expect we have a very bumpy ride ahead of us for the next 3 years.
    As for the same old Britain. Maybe. I certainly hope so. But the reality is is that's not how some people see it. And perceptions count.

    The govt needs to be more careful. Rhetoric about naming and shaming companies or the "citizen of the world" soundbite need to stop.

    I fully stand by my respect for you in the campaign. I am glad you are proud and happy.
    Thank you for your kind words.

    I agree the Government should choose its words more carefully.
  • Jonathan said:

    Indigo said:

    FPT:

    It is the logical conclusion affirmed by the opening passage in the Treaty of Rome. It is no myth.

    You may construe it that way. I do not.
    And looking at the policy of France, Germany, and the U.K. within the EU over the last decade or so - neither do they.
    Happily what you construe is of only incidental interest ;)

    To quote Sir Thomas More

    The world must construe according to its wits; this court must construe according to the law.
    Your Brexiteering Utopia has very little chance of becoming reality. Hopefully you realise this before we 48 percenters are consigned to the Tower!
    You lost.
    We all lost.
    No, 52% of us won.
    Leave won a Pyrrhic victory that will destroy their case morally, intellectually and economically in the fullness of time.
    Keep dreaming William.
    One of the first casualties is your integrity given your prior vehement advocacy of the EEA option.
    I would prefer soft Brexit.

    But I would prefer hard Brexit a hundredfold to no Brexit.

    If it has to be hard Brexit though, I would hope our subsequent foreign policy is to undermine, subvert and destroy the EU, working with Putin to do so if necessary.
    I really hope you are not representative.

    Allying with Putin might make sense from the comfort of your Biggleswade eyrie, but it would be a betrayal of everything this country stands for.
    Oh come off it. I may have been engaging in hyperbole but divide and rule has been UK policy for centuries in Europe - and we allied with Stalin who makes Putin look like a pussycat.
    Brexit of course leaves the continent less divided than ever. Oops.
    Anti-Semite Adolf believed in a single European Superstate.

    Believe in Britain! Be LEAVE!
  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 22,153
    Has Faisal has calmed down now that Marmitegate has been resolved? :smiley:
  • ThreeQuidderThreeQuidder Posts: 6,133
    JonathanD said:

    JonathanD said:

    Sean_F said:

    Jonathan said:

    Jonathan said:

    Indigo said:

    FPT:

    It is the logical conclusion affirmed by the opening passage in the Treaty of Rome. It is no myth.

    You may construe it that way. I do not.
    And looking at the policy of France, Germany, and the U.K. within the EU over the last decade or so - neither do they.
    Happily what you construe is of only incidental interest ;)

    To quote Sir Thomas More

    The world must construe according to its wits; this court must construe according to the law.
    Your Brexiteering Utopia has very little chance of becoming reality. Hopefully you realise this before we 48 percenters are consigned to the Tower!
    You lost.
    We all lost.
    Labour especially and particularly Corbyn.
    British politics is two tramps fighting over the dregs in a can of Stella. The winner later discovers the dregs are piss.

    Enjoy your victory.
    I'm certainly enjoying our victory.
    A surprising number of people seem to think the EU is our lifeline and, if we cut the umbilical cord linking us to it, the whole UK economy will collapse.

    In reality, the worst that happens according to the most contorted Osbornomics available is (apart from the short-term disruption) that we grow slightly more slowly than we might have done had we stayed.
    Reversion to WTO, which now seems quite likely, Was associated with a GDP drop of 6% over 2 years and an increase in unemployment of 800,000. That's not a slight effect.
    A drop, or a lower increase?
    A drop from the baseline GDP. I suspect some of the strain will be accommodated by allowing the deficit to start increasing again.
    Does "baseline" mean "what it actually was" or "what it was predicted to be after a Remain vote"?
  • Jonathan said:

    Indigo said:

    FPT:

    It is the logical conclusion affirmed by the opening passage in the Treaty of Rome. It is no myth.

    You may construe it that way. I do not.
    And looking at the policy of France, Germany, and the U.K. within the EU over the last decade or so - neither do they.
    Happily what you construe is of only incidental interest ;)

    To quote Sir Thomas More

    The world must construe according to its wits; this court must construe according to the law.
    Your Brexiteering Utopia has very little chance of becoming reality. Hopefully you realise this before we 48 percenters are consigned to the Tower!
    You lost.
    We all lost.
    No, 52% of us won.
    Leave won a Pyrrhic victory that will destroy their case morally, intellectually and economically in the fullness of time.
    Keep dreaming William.
    One of the first casualties is your integrity given your prior vehement advocacy of the EEA option.
    I would prefer soft Brexit.

    But I would prefer hard Brexit a hundredfold to no Brexit.

    If it has to be hard Brexit though, I would hope our subsequent foreign policy is to undermine, subvert and destroy the EU, working with Putin to do so if necessary.
    I really hope you are not representative.

    Allying with Putin might make sense from the comfort of your Biggleswade eyrie, but it would be a betrayal of everything this country stands for.
    Oh come off it. I may have been engaging in hyperbole but divide and rule has been UK policy for centuries in Europe - and we allied with Stalin who makes Putin look like a pussycat.
    We allied with Stalin against Hitler then swiftly pivoted. It wasn't a permanent alliance.

    Given a choice of Putin or Junker I know which is worse. It would make more sense to continue to ally with our EU NATO partners against a resurgent Great Bear.
  • ThrakThrak Posts: 494
    Well he's gone the whole Bilderberg now, I don't think he's started ranting about lizards but surely it's only a matter of time....

    "This is a struggle for the survival of our nation. Believe me. This will be our last chance to save it on November 8. Remember that. This election will determine whether we are a free nation or whether we have only the illusion of democracy, but we are in fact controlled by a handful of global special interests rigging the system and our system is rigged.

    This is reality. "

    Mad as a bag of frogs.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,706
    On topic calling this a race is a bit of an overstatement at the moment. Unless the hare decides to have a particularly long nap this "race" is over and the tortoise is toast.

    Will Hilary win more than 350ECVs? I would say almost certainly.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 42,753

    Jonathan said:

    Jonathan said:

    Jonathan said:

    Indigo said:

    FPT:

    It is the logical conclusion affirmed by the opening passage in the Treaty of Rome. It is no myth.

    You may construe it that way. I do not.
    And looking at the policy of France, Germany, and the U.K. within the EU over the last decade or so - neither do they.
    Happily what you construe is of only incidental interest ;)

    To quote Sir Thomas More

    The world must construe according to its wits; this court must construe according to the law.
    Your Brexiteering Utopia has very little chance of becoming reality. Hopefully you realise this before we 48 percenters are consigned to the Tower!
    You lost.
    We all lost.
    Not at all. Proudest day of my life.

    Disappointing to see you've bought into the Remain camp wholesale.
    The way Brexit is playing out is hugely upsetting. The way May and Rudd played it last week was hugely damaging. I am very angry.

    I should not have to explain to friends it's safe to visit the UK.
    I can see you're angry. But it's still the same old Britain. The trouble is that Brexit is such a big event that any, and every, development can (and is) being directly attributed to it; it sells copy, and no news story can be overexaggerated.

    You can unpick virtually everything by looking at the detail; from the total non-story of marmitegate to so-called "surges" in hate crime.

    I expect we have a very bumpy ride ahead of us for the next 3 years.
    As for the same old Britain. Maybe. I certainly hope so. But the reality is is that's not how some people see it. And perceptions count.

    The govt needs to be more careful. Rhetoric about naming and shaming companies or the "citizen of the world" soundbite need to stop.

    I fully stand by my respect for you in the campaign. I am glad you are proud and happy.
    Thank you for your kind words.

    I agree the Government should choose its words more carefully.
    There was nothing in Amber Rudd's speech about naming and shaming. Although the press was all over it I can't recall its origin.
  • Thrak said:

    Well he's gone the whole Bilderberg now, I don't think he's started ranting about lizards but surely it's only a matter of time....

    "This is a struggle for the survival of our nation. Believe me. This will be our last chance to save it on November 8. Remember that. This election will determine whether we are a free nation or whether we have only the illusion of democracy, but we are in fact controlled by a handful of global special interests rigging the system and our system is rigged.

    This is reality. "

    Mad as a bag of frogs.

    Switch nation for NHS and it sounds like every Labour campaign I can remember.
  • Jonathan said:

    Indigo said:

    FPT:

    It is the logical conclusion affirmed by the opening passage in the Treaty of Rome. It is no myth.

    You may construe it that way. I do not.
    And looking at the policy of France, Germany, and the U.K. within the EU over the last decade or so - neither do they.
    Happily what you construe is of only incidental interest ;)

    To quote Sir Thomas More

    The world must construe according to its wits; this court must construe according to the law.
    Your Brexiteering Utopia has very little chance of becoming reality. Hopefully you realise this before we 48 percenters are consigned to the Tower!
    You lost.
    We all lost.
    No, 52% of us won.
    Leave won a Pyrrhic victory that will destroy their case morally, intellectually and economically in the fullness of time.
    Keep dreaming William.
    One of the first casualties is your integrity given your prior vehement advocacy of the EEA option.
    Obviously you are suffering from some sort of temporary blindness or you would have seen me being just as vehement in my advocacy of the EEA option over the last few days. I still think it is the best way forward. That doesn't mean that I believe any other version of Brexit on offer would be as bad as staying in.

    So the only person showing a lack of integrity appears to be yourself.
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 21,257
    TOPPING said:

    Jonathan said:

    Jonathan said:

    Jonathan said:

    Indigo said:

    FPT:

    It is the logical conclusion affirmed by the opening passage in the Treaty of Rome. It is no myth.

    You may construe it that way. I do not.
    And looking at the policy of France, Germany, and the U.K. within the EU over the last decade or so - neither do they.
    Happily what you construe is of only incidental interest ;)

    To quote Sir Thomas More

    The world must construe according to its wits; this court must construe according to the law.
    Your Brexiteering Utopia has very little chance of becoming reality. Hopefully you realise this before we 48 percenters are consigned to the Tower!
    You lost.
    We all lost.
    Not at all. Proudest day of my life.

    Disappointing to see you've bought into the Remain camp wholesale.
    The way Brexit is playing out is hugely upsetting. The way May and Rudd played it last week was hugely damaging. I am very angry.

    I should not have to explain to friends it's safe to visit the UK.
    I can see you're angry. But it's still the same old Britain. The trouble is that Brexit is such a big event that any, and every, development can (and is) being directly attributed to it; it sells copy, and no news story can be overexaggerated.

    You can unpick virtually everything by looking at the detail; from the total non-story of marmitegate to so-called "surges" in hate crime.

    I expect we have a very bumpy ride ahead of us for the next 3 years.
    As for the same old Britain. Maybe. I certainly hope so. But the reality is is that's not how some people see it. And perceptions count.

    The govt needs to be more careful. Rhetoric about naming and shaming companies or the "citizen of the world" soundbite need to stop.

    I fully stand by my respect for you in the campaign. I am glad you are proud and happy.
    Thank you for your kind words.

    I agree the Government should choose its words more carefully.
    There was nothing in Amber Rudd's speech about naming and shaming. Although the press was all over it I can't recall its origin.
    Short of googling (what a faff!), AFAIK it was mentioned by Rudd in her subsequent radio interviews and/or briefed as such by Home Office spokespeople.

    Truly regrettable. Rudd should be ashamed herself.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 59,994
    TOPPING said:

    Jonathan said:

    Jonathan said:

    Jonathan said:

    Indigo said:

    FPT:

    It is the logical conclusion affirmed by the opening passage in the Treaty of Rome. It is no myth.

    You may construe it that way. I do not.
    And looking at the policy of France, Germany, and the U.K. within the EU over the last decade or so - neither do they.
    Happily what you construe is of only incidental interest ;)

    To quote Sir Thomas More

    The world must construe according to its wits; this court must construe according to the law.
    Your Brexiteering Utopia has very little chance of becoming reality. Hopefully you realise this before we 48 percenters are consigned to the Tower!
    You lost.
    We all lost.
    Not at all. Proudest day of my life.

    Disappointing to see you've bought into the Remain camp wholesale.
    The way Brexit is playing out is hugely upsetting. The way May and Rudd played it last week was hugely damaging. I am very angry.

    I should not have to explain to friends it's safe to visit the UK.
    I
    As for the same old Britain. Maybe. I certainly hope so. But the reality is is that's not how some people see it. And perceptions count.

    The govt needs to be more careful. Rhetoric about naming and shaming companies or the "citizen of the world" soundbite need to stop.

    I fully stand by my respect for you in the campaign. I am glad you are proud and happy.
    Thank you for your kind words.

    I agree the Government should choose its words more carefully.
    There was nothing in Amber Rudd's speech about naming and shaming. Although the press was all over it I can't recall its origin.
    Quite so. But the Government needs to ensure the tone of the message is right as well as the content.
  • OllyTOllyT Posts: 5,006

    Jonathan said:

    Jonathan said:

    Indigo said:

    FPT:

    It is the logical conclusion affirmed by the opening passage in the Treaty of Rome. It is no myth.

    You may construe it that way. I do not.
    And looking at the policy of France, Germany, and the U.K. within the EU over the last decade or so - neither do they.
    Happily what you construe is of only incidental interest ;)

    To quote Sir Thomas More

    The world must construe according to its wits; this court must construe according to the law.
    Your Brexiteering Utopia has very little chance of becoming reality. Hopefully you realise this before we 48 percenters are consigned to the Tower!
    You lost.
    We all lost.
    Labour especially and particularly Corbyn.
    British politics is two tramps fighting over the dregs in a can of Stella. The winner later discovers the dregs are piss.

    Enjoy your victory.
    It must be sad to so hate your country and everything it stands for.
    john_zims said:

    @TCPoliticalBetting

    'May be a hard Brexit is inevitable?

    George Eaton ✔ @georgeeaton
    EU president Donald Tusk: “The only real alternative to a hard Brexit is no Brexit." Europe's political priority is to avoid "soft" deal.'


    So no need for endless time wasting debate in the HoC of soft v hard brexit,Tusk has clarified it for us.

    Of course the EU want to push us towards a Hard Brexit - they think it will be an economic disaster for the UK.

    It won't be of course because Brexiters have promised us we will be entering a earthly paradise. in a couple of years time. I can't wait
  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670
    Thrak said:

    Well he's gone the whole Bilderberg now, I don't think he's started ranting about lizards but surely it's only a matter of time....

    "This is a struggle for the survival of our nation. Believe me. This will be our last chance to save it on November 8. Remember that. This election will determine whether we are a free nation or whether we have only the illusion of democracy, but we are in fact controlled by a handful of global special interests rigging the system and our system is rigged.

    This is reality. "

    Mad as a bag of frogs.

    I honeatly think Trump is unaware that "global special interest" is code for Jews. He's just found a phrase he likes and ignorantly used it.
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 21,257

    Jonathan said:

    Indigo said:

    FPT:

    It is the logical conclusion affirmed by the opening passage in the Treaty of Rome. It is no myth.

    You may construe it that way. I do not.
    And looking at the policy of France, Germany, and the U.K. within the EU over the last decade or so - neither do they.
    Happily what you construe is of only incidental interest ;)

    To quote Sir Thomas More

    The world must construe according to its wits; this court must construe according to the law.
    Hopefully you realise this before we 48 percenters are consigned to the Tower!
    You lost.
    We all lost.
    No, 52% of us won.
    Leave won a Pyrrhic victory that will destroy their case morally, intellectually and economically in the fullness of time.
    Keep dreaming William.
    One of the first casualties is your integrity given your prior vehement advocacy of the EEA option.
    I would prefer soft Brexit.

    But I would prefer hard Brexit a hundredfold to no Brexit.

    If it has to be hard Brexit though, I would hope our subsequent foreign policy is to undermine, subvert and destroy the EU, working with Putin to do so if necessary.
    I really hope you are not representative.

    Allying with Putin might make sense from the comfort of your Biggleswade eyrie, but it would be a betrayal of everything this country stands for.
    Oh come off it. I may have been engaging in hyperbole but divide and rule has been UK policy for centuries in Europe - and we allied with Stalin who makes Putin look like a pussycat.
    We allied with Stalin against Hitler then swiftly pivoted. It wasn't a permanent alliance.

    Given a choice of Putin or Junker I know which is worse. It would make more sense to continue to ally with our EU NATO partners against a resurgent Great Bear.
    Yes.

    The great foreign policy question for the UK is how to secure our neighbourhood which is threatened inter alia by a resurgent, revanchist and anti-liberal Russia, and Islamic extremism.

    It would be better to tackle both *with* our European partners.

    But if you're one of the frothers who thinks we ought to nuke Luxembourg, you'd naturally disagree.
  • weejonnieweejonnie Posts: 3,820
    DavidL said:

    On topic calling this a race is a bit of an overstatement at the moment. Unless the hare decides to have a particularly long nap this "race" is over and the tortoise is toast.

    Will Hilary win more than 350ECVs? I would say almost certainly.

    What odds are you offering?
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 59,994

    Andrew Neil ✔ @afneil
    The media went mad on the Marmite non-story today. It needs to lie down in a dark room and ponder, before making the same mistake again.

    Andrew Neil talks a lot more sense than Faisal Islam, even if he doesn't take any prisoners


  • We allied with Stalin against Hitler then swiftly pivoted. It wasn't a permanent alliance.

    Given a choice of Putin or Junker I know which is worse. It would make more sense to continue to ally with our EU NATO partners against a resurgent Great Bear.

    Yes.

    The great foreign policy question for the UK is how to secure our neighbourhood which is threatened inter alia by a resurgent, revanchist and anti-liberal Russia, and Islamic extremism.

    It would be better to tackle both *with* our European partners.

    But if you're one of the frothers who thinks we ought to nuke Luxembourg, you'd naturally disagree.
    With our European and American partners via NATO.

    Though if you're a Europhile frother who thinks we ought to walk away from the Special Relationship, you'd naturally disagree.
  • sladeslade Posts: 2,023
    Lib Dem campaign in Witney suggesting that the Conservatives are so worried they are asking for the PM to come to campaign. Has happened before but pretty unusual.
  • TOPPING said:

    Jonathan said:

    Jonathan said:

    Jonathan said:

    Indigo said:

    FPT:

    It is the logical conclusion affirmed by the opening passage in the Treaty of Rome. It is no myth.

    You may construe it that way. I do not.
    And looking at the policy of France, Germany, and the U.K. within the EU over the last decade or so - neither do they.
    Happily what you construe is of only incidental interest ;)

    To quote Sir Thomas More

    The world must construe according to its wits; this court must construe according to the law.
    Your Brexiteering Utopia has very little chance of becoming reality. Hopefully you realise this before we 48 percenters are consigned to the Tower!
    You lost.
    We all lost.
    Not at all. Proudest day of my life.

    Disappointing to see you've bought into the Remain camp wholesale.
    The way Brexit is playing out is hugely upsetting. The way May and Rudd played it last week was hugely damaging. I am very angry.

    I should not have to explain to friends it's safe to visit the UK.
    I can see you're angry. But it's still the same old Britain. The trouble is that Brexit is such a big event that any, and every, development can (and is) being directly attributed to it; it sells copy, and no news story can be overexaggerated.

    You can unpick virtually everything by looking at the detail; from the total non-story of marmitegate to so-called "surges" in hate crime.

    I expect we have a very bumpy ride ahead of us for the next 3 years.
    As for the same old Britain. Maybe. I certainly hope so. But the reality is is that's not how some people see it. And perceptions count.

    The govt needs to be more careful. Rhetoric about naming and shaming companies or the "citizen of the world" soundbite need to stop.

    I fully stand by my respect for you in the campaign. I am glad you are proud and happy.
    Thank you for your kind words.

    I agree the Government should choose its words more carefully.
    There was nothing in Amber Rudd's speech about naming and shaming. Although the press was all over it I can't recall its origin.
    P*ss poor PR people in Govt. They should have stamped on the naming and shaming.
  • ThrakThrak Posts: 494

    Thrak said:

    Well he's gone the whole Bilderberg now, I don't think he's started ranting about lizards but surely it's only a matter of time....

    "This is a struggle for the survival of our nation. Believe me. This will be our last chance to save it on November 8. Remember that. This election will determine whether we are a free nation or whether we have only the illusion of democracy, but we are in fact controlled by a handful of global special interests rigging the system and our system is rigged.

    This is reality. "

    Mad as a bag of frogs.

    Switch nation for NHS and it sounds like every Labour campaign I can remember.
    And, as with Corbynite labour, 'global special interests' are just a step away from the full Adolf, as twitter response just now seems to have twigged.

    http://heatst.com/politics/twitter-sees-donald-trumps-speech-tiptoeing-up-to-the-line-of-open-anti-semitism/
  • MonksfieldMonksfield Posts: 2,797
    Thrak said:

    Well he's gone the whole Bilderberg now, I don't think he's started ranting about lizards but surely it's only a matter of time....

    "This is a struggle for the survival of our nation. Believe me. This will be our last chance to save it on November 8. Remember that. This election will determine whether we are a free nation or whether we have only the illusion of democracy, but we are in fact controlled by a handful of global special interests rigging the system and our system is rigged.

    This is reality. "

    Mad as a bag of frogs.

    He sounds like some on here, SeanT after a couple of bottles of Gevrey Chambertin.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 42,753

    TOPPING said:

    Jonathan said:

    Jonathan said:

    Jonathan said:

    Indigo said:

    FPT:

    It is the logical conclusion affirmed by the opening passage in the Treaty of Rome. It is no myth.

    You may construe it that way. I do not.
    And looking at the policy of France, Germany, and the U.K. within the EU over the last decade or so - neither do they.
    Happily w
    is before we 48 percenters are consigned to the Tower!
    You lost.
    We all lost.
    Not at all. Proudest day of my life.

    Disappointing to see you've bought into the Remain camp wholesale.
    The way Brexit is playing out is hugely upsetting. The way May and Rudd played it last week was hugely damaging. I am very angry.

    I should not have to explain to friends it's safe to visit the UK.
    I
    A campaign. I am glad you are proud and happy.
    Thank you for your kind words.

    I agree the Government should choose its words more carefully.
    Thes origin.
    Quite so. But the Government needs to ensure the tone of the message is right as well as the content.
    But this comes back to my earlier point. I cannot see how the govt is going to reduce immigration to the extent that is expected without a boatload of nudges, policy statements and, of course, policies.

    I think that was them flying the kite and it was shot down so quickly they must now be wondering what exactly people really do want.

    I foresee, sadly, because Tezza might not have the charisma or imagination of Dave, but she certainly has the necessary obduracy, a lot of wailing and gnashing of teeth about the government's immigration measures ahead.

    Now, and to repeat my good wishes to you on account of your victory, I think some if not much of this forthcoming ugliness can be laid at the feet of all Brexiters. While you and others on this board espoused a pure, sovereignty-based reason for leaving, plenty of others want to cut immigration which will mean some pretty brutal govt policies and many Leavers, let's call them PB Leavers, knowing this, were happy to use that bloc vote to achieve the Out result.
  • TOPPING said:

    Jonathan said:

    Jonathan said:

    Jonathan said:

    Indigo said:

    FPT:

    It is the logical conclusion affirmed by the opening passage in the Treaty of Rome. It is no myth.

    You may construe it that way. I do not.
    And looking at the policy of France, Germany, and the U.K. within the EU over the last decade or so - neither do they.
    Happily what you construe is of only incidental interest ;)

    To quote Sir Thomas More

    The world must construe according to its wits; this court must construe according to the law.
    Your Brexiteering Utopia has very little chance of becoming reality. Hopefully you realise this before we 48 percenters are consigned to the Tower!
    You lost.
    We all lost.
    Not at all. Proudest day of my life.

    Disappointing to see you've bought into the Remain camp wholesale.
    The way Brexit is playing out is hugely upsetting. The way May and Rudd played it last week was hugely damaging. I am very angry.

    I should not have to explain to friends it's safe to visit the UK.
    I can see you're angry. But it's still the same old Britain. The trouble is that Brexit is such a big event that any, and every, development can (and is) being directly attributed to it; it sells copy, and no news story can be overexaggerated.

    You can unpick virtually everything by looking at the detail; from the total non-story of marmitegate to so-called "surges" in hate crime.

    I expect we have a very bumpy ride ahead of us for the next 3 years.
    As for the same old Britain. Maybe. I certainly hope so. But the reality is is that's not how some people see it. And perceptions count.

    The govt needs to be more careful. Rhetoric about naming and shaming companies or the "citizen of the world" soundbite need to stop.

    I fully stand by my respect for you in the campaign. I am glad you are proud and happy.
    Thank you for your kind words.

    I agree the Government should choose its words more carefully.
    There was nothing in Amber Rudd's speech about naming and shaming. Although the press was all over it I can't recall its origin.
    P*ss poor PR people in Govt. They should have stamped on the naming and shaming.
    I thought it was in the briefing notes?
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 42,205
    slade said:

    Lib Dem campaign in Witney suggesting that the Conservatives are so worried they are asking for the PM to come to campaign. Has happened before but pretty unusual.

    Everything tells me that Witney *must* be the safest of safe Conservative holds. The Lib Dems have no chance.

    But ...

    The way politics has been over the last couple of years, I wouldn't be surprised by the Monster Raving Loony Party winning a by-election. We are living in very strange and turbulent times politically.
  • Moses_Moses_ Posts: 4,865
    edited October 2016
    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3836760/EU-spending-watchdog-warns-breakdown-public-trust-reveals-nearly-5BILLION-funds-misspent-year.html

    5 billion in one year that's some misspending? if it was a 1/5 of the quoted it would still be bad. Comments also point out its 22 years since clean accounts were achieved though I am aware there is some arguments on that.

    Either way further reasons why people are fed up with this EU project.
  • GIN1138 said:

    Has Faisal has calmed down now that Marmitegate has been resolved? :smiley:

    Andrew Neil slapped him down yesterday.
  • PongPong Posts: 4,693
    edited October 2016
    slade said:

    Lib Dem campaign in Witney suggesting that the Conservatives are so worried they are asking for the PM to come to campaign. Has happened before but pretty unusual.

    Classic LD spin.

    Hopefully some naive punters will fall for it and push out the odds on the tories.
  • nunununu Posts: 6,024
    Although only unreliable anecdotes Hillary does get big crowds:

    Watch the video.
    http://www.cleveland.com/open/index.ssf/2016/10/hillary_clinton_draws_record_c.html
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 42,753
    Cyclefree said:
    Agree. Dreadful decision. Lunacy. A real shame.
  • OllyTOllyT Posts: 5,006

    OllyT said:

    On the days events....

    Cheers to Bob Dylan..... Poet for our times...

    Massive cheers to Jessica Ennis Hill. A better role model for modern Britain would be very hard to find. She had my vote for Spoty in 12 and 15 and will have it again this year. You were fab Jess!

    And jeers to Tesco. If the anglish poond drops by more than 15%, prices are going to go up. Period. I noticed petrol was up by 2p at my local BP on the way home. This is the cost of taking back control.

    We already knew that every unpopular decision would be blamed on the Leave vote, whether or not it had anything to do with it. A 10% price rise on a product made entirely within the UK has nothing at all to do with it...
    You mean like UKIP and their fellow-travellers blamed everything on the EU prior to June 23rd? You'd better get used to it, it is going to get a lot lot worse.
    Yes, indeed.

    Most sensible people will, of course, ignore it just like they ignored that.
    You wish!
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 42,753

    Thrak said:

    Well he's gone the whole Bilderberg now, I don't think he's started ranting about lizards but surely it's only a matter of time....

    "This is a struggle for the survival of our nation. Believe me. This will be our last chance to save it on November 8. Remember that. This election will determine whether we are a free nation or whether we have only the illusion of democracy, but we are in fact controlled by a handful of global special interests rigging the system and our system is rigged.

    This is reality. "

    Mad as a bag of frogs.

    He sounds like some on here, SeanT after a couple of bottles of Gevrey Chambertin.
    let he who cast the first stone...
  • Andrew Neil ✔ @afneil
    The media went mad on the Marmite non-story today. It needs to lie down in a dark room and ponder, before making the same mistake again.

    Andrew Neil talks a lot more sense than Faisal Islam, even if he doesn't take any prisoners
    Old school journalist. Believes in fact checking.
  • MortimerMortimer Posts: 14,114
    slade said:

    Lib Dem campaign in Witney suggesting that the Conservatives are so worried they are asking for the PM to come to campaign. Has happened before but pretty unusual.

    What a load of balls. Safe Tory hold.
  • My recommendations:

    Take Juppé at 2 (Ladbrokes/Betfred)
    Take Sarkozy at 8 (Betfair - last matched 7.2)
    Take Montebourg at 60s (Betfair)

    Leave Hollande, Macron and Le Pen to flounder.
  • PlatoSaidPlatoSaid Posts: 10,383
    DavidL said:

    619 said:

    https://twitter.com/gavinsblog/status/786626297489399809

    Brilliant letter back to trump from the NYT

    Still prefer the reply in Arkell-v-Pressdram but this is pretty close.
    Have you seen the mug shots of the victim named?

    I've considered this a grifter story TBH.

    There's Bill Clinton's alleged son via a prostitute that's been floating about - he's black, I'm very sceptical of it all. But this is 2016 - WTF is going on?
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 56,929
    Pong said:

    slade said:

    Lib Dem campaign in Witney suggesting that the Conservatives are so worried they are asking for the PM to come to campaign. Has happened before but pretty unusual.

    Classic LD spin.

    Hopefully some naive punters will fall for it and push out the odds on the tories.
    I put five quid on at 23s on Betfair. I fully expect to lose it, but having written about the LibDem path to victory (unlikely as it is), I felt I should put my money where my mouth is :)
  • slade said:

    Lib Dem campaign in Witney suggesting that the Conservatives are so worried they are asking for the PM to come to campaign. Has happened before but pretty unusual.

    It does look like a badly run campaign by the Conservative HQ. There have been no requests for help from CCHQ in all the weeks. The Party Chairman is performing up to his dismal reputation.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 59,994
    Heading out for dinner with my wife, but the full Tusk speech is worth a read:

    http://www.consilium.europa.eu/en/press/press-releases/2016/10/13-tusk-speech-epc/

    It looks to me like he's hoping the EU playing hard ball may lead to UK reconsidering.
  • MortimerMortimer Posts: 14,114

    Thrak said:

    Well he's gone the whole Bilderberg now, I don't think he's started ranting about lizards but surely it's only a matter of time....

    "This is a struggle for the survival of our nation. Believe me. This will be our last chance to save it on November 8. Remember that. This election will determine whether we are a free nation or whether we have only the illusion of democracy, but we are in fact controlled by a handful of global special interests rigging the system and our system is rigged.

    This is reality. "

    Mad as a bag of frogs.

    He sounds like some on here, SeanT after a couple of bottles of Gevrey Chambertin.
    Doesn't everyone feel like writing a la SeanT after a couple of bottles of Gev?
This discussion has been closed.