@faisalislam: Tesco needs to take back control of Marmite supplies from Unilever... or perhaps from those pesky foreign currencies talking down the pound
Just heard Anna Soubry's speech at the Brexit debate. Two things really got under my skin, she said, "she hoped the 48% would become the majority" (I presume she means a second referendum?). And she accused older voters of ruining the lives of younger voters.
I hope hell freezes over before this awful woman ever gets back on the front bench. Hopefully, she will defect!
One of the most irritating recent theories is that somehow, the votes of 18-24 year olds count for more than everyone elses'.
If the young were huge eurosceptics, and the elderly Europhiles like Heseltine and Clarke, we'd hear much less of that argument.
The 18-24 bracket were in favour of Euro membership c.2000-2003, and very clearly for New Labour. Now, they would be 34-40 years old, clearly against and majority Conservative.
Just as the Conservatives came third among 18-24 year olds in February 1974, but that same age cohort is now two thirds Conservative or UKIP; and that age cohort voted overwhelmingly in favour of EEC membership in 1975, and overwhelmingly for Leave in June.
People becoming eurosceptic/right wing as they get older is one of the constants of British politics.
That's true......
I spoke with a friend yesterday what could we do to change this dynamic, especially as people are living longer, and we are producing less children.
I think the voting age should be set at 16-66; a fifty year window. That's fair...for the people of working age to decide how the country should be governed. A damn good idea I might add.
The only precedent for this was in ancient times people who received money from the state where barred from voting.
In modern times that would mean the unemployed, the pensioners and the civil servants would not be able to vote.
It would resemble a reversal of the 1884 Act.
Interesting concept.
Then all you need to do is pass UBI and then you can have a dictator...!
@faisalislam: Tesco needs to take back control of Marmite supplies from Unilever... or perhaps from those pesky foreign currencies talking down the pound
The Faisal Islam Obsession strikes again....
I have wondered recently if Faisal Islam is Scott P.
@faisalislam: Tesco needs to take back control of Marmite supplies from Unilever... or perhaps from those pesky foreign currencies talking down the pound
The Faisal Islam Obsession strikes again....
I have wondered recently if Faisal Islam is Scott P.
Fine. Then we'll buy our cars from countries that don't demand open borders and no limit to migration as part of the deal.
Why is it so important for Germany to insist that Britain continues to accept unlimited migration from Eastern Europe as part of a free trade arrangement?
No other free trade deal does or would include such an arrangement.
It ultimately is part of the long-term aim of the EU to eradicate the continent's nation-states by mixing all the peoples together so that we eventually form one polis, one Europe... Ein Reich, Ein Euro...
The smart thing for the EU to do would be to ditch free movement of citizens in exchange for that of workers plus an emergency brake for all member states.
But, it's almost a tenet of faith. Because, at heart, it's about a political union, not an economic trading block.
This tallies with the rumours I've been hearing within the industry.
A sensible decision, albeit a bit hostile to those that live nearby. They knew the risks though.
Boris-island-airport still ticks all the boxes though.
It's fantastic we're breaking out of the EU straitjacket to become a global hub of the future.
IMO Heathrow won't be a viable hub in twenty years, even with three runways. Other countries will rapidly overtake us.
Unless hub-and-spoke is beaten by point-to-point ...
Well, of course it won't, Mr. J, and why should we care? People flying through transferring at Heathrow are not bringing squillions of quid to the UK, though some of them might buy a cup of coffee. In cash terms transit passengers are a dead loss.
The arguments for hub-and-spoke airports are well-rehearsed. For one thing, if you're on a spoke, you get less traffic and that's bad for both the airport and the region/country. That's just one reason.
Airports are an enabler for the economy, not a direct driver of it.
Thanks Mr. J. I agree about the Hub ans spoke versus the point to point argument and I agree with Boeing.
As for airports being an enabler: we have sold them off into private ownership. So should not the private owners pick up the full bill for any expansion they want to do? If my mate's building company wants to expand, HMG doesn't come rallying around to provide the dosh.
The plan is that passengers pay for it in the form of increased airport charges.
Heathrow already has the highest charges in the world. BA say that passengers wouldn't accept the increase that is necessary (double) and BA plan to increasingly use Dublin as a hub as a consequence.
The impact of increased passenger charges was not addressed or modeled in the Davies study.
4 flights a day from Bham to Schipol makes it the best hub for longhaul for me, though Turkish and Emirates do two flights per day too to their hubs.
At peak times such as school holidays Heathrow is horrible. I try to avoid it as much as possible.
Fine. Then we'll buy our cars from countries that don't demand open borders and no limit to migration as part of the deal.
Why is it so important for Germany to insist that Britain continues to accept unlimited migration from Eastern Europe as part of a free trade arrangement?
No other free trade deal does or would include such an arrangement.
It ultimately is part of the long-term aim of the EU to eradicate the continent's nation-states by mixing all the peoples together so that we eventually form one polis, one Europe... Ein Reich, Ein Euro...
Germany doesn't insist on FoM for FTAs or SM access. It insists upon it for SM Membership. And I think you'll find many of the amazing trade deals we're going to negotiate post Brexit (* snorts* ) Will have a modest element of visa relaxation in them.
This tallies with the rumours I've been hearing within the industry.
A sensible decision, albeit a bit hostile to those that live nearby. They knew the risks though.
Boris-island-airport still ticks all the boxes though.
It's fantastic we're breaking out of the EU straitjacket to become a global hub of the future.
IMO Heathrow won't be a viable hub in twenty years, even with three runways. Other countries will rapidly overtake us.
Unless hub-and-spoke is beaten by point-to-point ...
Well, of course it won't, Mr. J, and why should we care? People flying through transferring at Heathrow are not bringing squillions of quid to the UK, though some of them might buy a cup of coffee. In cash terms transit passengers are a dead loss.
The arguments for hub-and-spoke airports are well-rehearsed. For one thing, if you're on a spoke, you get less traffic and that's bad for both the airport and the region/country. That's just one reason.
Airports are an enabler for the economy, not a direct driver of it.
Thanks Mr. J. I agree about the Hub ans spoke versus the point to point argument and I agree with Boeing.
As for airports being an enabler: we have sold them off into private ownership. So should not the private owners pick up the full bill for any expansion they want to do? If my mate's building company wants to expand, HMG doesn't come rallying around to provide the dosh.
The plan is that passengers pay for it in the form of increased airport charges.
Heathrow already has the highest charges in the world. BA say that passengers wouldn't accept the increase that is necessary (double) and BA plan to increasingly use Dublin as a hub as a consequence.
The impact of increased passenger charges was not addressed or modeled in the Davies study.
4 flights a day from Bham to Schipol makes it the best hub for longhaul for me, though Turkish and Emirates do two flights per day too to their hubs.
At peak times such as school holidays Heathrow is horrible. I try to avoid it as much as possible.
You fly commercial?
Not often, but I do go to research meetings longhaul a few times per year, and often to visit my brother (though he has been assigned back to the UK at present from the Middle East).
Fine. Then we'll buy our cars from countries that don't demand open borders and no limit to migration as part of the deal.
Why is it so important for Germany to insist that Britain continues to accept unlimited migration from Eastern Europe as part of a free trade arrangement?
No other free trade deal does or would include such an arrangement.
It ultimately is part of the long-term aim of the EU to eradicate the continent's nation-states by mixing all the peoples together so that we eventually form one polis, one Europe... Ein Reich, Ein Euro...
Germany doesn't insist on FoM for FTAs or SM access. It insists upon it for SM Membership. And I think you'll find many of the amazing trade deals we're going to negotiate post Brexit (* snorts* ) Will have a modest element of visa relaxation in them.
They may well do. But freer movement between Canada, Australia and New Zealand (and the UK) as high-income countries, a long way away, with very similar culture is unlikely to cause either mass migration nor a political problem.
Actually, turning it on its head, emigration of *some* within the more depressed areas of the UK (as per historical situation) may actually be quite popular with former Leave voters in the North/Wales.
So no need to waste any time on negotiations, WTO it is.
No. There are myriad options between WTO rules and Single Market membership. And that's before we discuss transitional arrangements to get us to those myriad options.
I love Paul Verhoeven's films. Under the surface there are some seriously subversive ideas, and enough gratuitous sex and violence to keep it interesting. "Black Book" is one of my all time favourite films.
So no need to waste any time on negotiations, WTO it is.
No. There are myriad options between WTO rules and Single Market membership. And that's before we discuss transitional arrangements to get us to those myriad options.
Why create uncertainty by delaying further with protracted negotiations?
@faisalislam: Tesco needs to take back control of Marmite supplies from Unilever... or perhaps from those pesky foreign currencies talking down the pound
@faisalislam: Tesco needs to take back control of Marmite supplies from Unilever... or perhaps from those pesky foreign currencies talking down the pound
The Faisal Islam Obsession strikes again....
His anti government bias and smug attitude has become all to obvious - I don't listen to him anymore, the same with that Jonah, Ed Conway
It does raise the wider issue as to just how many media journalists have become part of the out of touch metropolitan elite and are in for a big shock when no one listens to any of them.
I spoke with a friend yesterday what could we do to change this dynamic, especially as people are living longer, and we are producing less children.
I think the voting age should be set at 16-66; a fifty year window. That's fair...for the people of working age to decide how the country should be governed. A damn good idea I might add.
Personally, I would ban anyone from voting who uses the words "vibrant" or "vibrancy" more than three times in five minutes. It is becoming the new, annoying buzzword(s)
Even if Birmingham is included in the Gatwick/Heathrow expansion package it's still a massive capital stimulus to the south of England predicated on expanded and deepened globalisation. I get the political narrative, we're open for business , what I don't get is how it rebalances the economy ( geographically or much ) or how it addresses the " Control " Phenomenon. I expect it will win several positive news cycles and the religious Brexiters will see it as a sign of national renewal. However I think there's a case it will actually reinforce the current economic imbalances on the island. Still long overdue airport expansion we could have done anyway is a cogent response to the Brexit disaster. So as a long term opponent of southern airport expansion I've changed my mind. We are were we are and need shock absorbers.
I suspect that if the Government gives the go-ahead to both Heathrow and Gatwick, then Heathrow will pull out as it won't be able to bear the competition.
Unlikely. Gatwick won't be able to raise the cash without government guarantees.
I think the same is true of Heathrow. I suspect that the Government will be forced to underwrite both of them if they want airport expansion.
Isn't that the perfect excuse? Successive governments have pretended they want expansion of airports but gave all shied away from actually making a decision. Could not TM say, "Yup you can all expand, subject to usual planning rules, but you have to fund all costs yourselves" Crap government perhaps but perfect politics.
'How about only taxpayers get a vote? No? Worried that would be gerrymandering (60% Tory majorities) Ok - we'll stick with everyone getting the vote.'
Wouldn't the 52% of net taxpayers that actually put in more than they take out be fairer ?
Not sure the Tory vote is rock solid if we rely on people who actually pay their taxes. They should certainly try that in the states as a qualifier for office.
'How about only taxpayers get a vote? No? Worried that would be gerrymandering (60% Tory majorities) Ok - we'll stick with everyone getting the vote.'
Wouldn't the 52% of net taxpayers that actually put in more than they take out be fairer ?
Why not allow only white people to vote and disbar all the immigrants?
Amazing how reactionary the liberal left get when they cant have their own way.
It is worth remembering that a portion of the Left suddenly fell in love with democracy in 1989.
When I grew up, it was quite common to have Labour MPs explaining, on TV, that the People's Democracies were much more democratic than Western "democracies" with their silly voting -for-who-you-want rubbish. Something to do with guaranteed jobs generally.
Also democracy was only for Westerners. Mention non-western countries that manage to practise multi party democracy and they would start screaming about racism for some reason. Not sure how that worked... but hey....
Personally, I would ban anyone from voting who uses the words "vibrant" or "vibrancy" more than three times in five minutes. It is becoming the new, annoying buzzword(s)
Electronic Rabbits make you vibrant (or something like that)
Fine. Then we'll buy our cars from countries that don't demand open borders and no limit to migration as part of the deal.
Why is it so important for Germany to insist that Britain continues to accept unlimited migration from Eastern Europe as part of a free trade arrangement?
No other free trade deal does or would include such an arrangement.
It ultimately is part of the long-term aim of the EU to eradicate the continent's nation-states by mixing all the peoples together so that we eventually form one polis, one Europe... Ein Reich, Ein Euro...
Germany doesn't insist on FoM for FTAs or SM access. It insists upon it for SM Membership. And I think you'll find many of the amazing trade deals we're going to negotiate post Brexit (* snorts* ) Will have a modest element of visa relaxation in them.
Visa relaxations for Indian students and Ozzie bar staff - oh noes. Not quite the same as unrestricted open doors (and open welfare state) to an entire continent.
This tallies with the rumours I've been hearing within the industry.
A sensible decision, albeit a bit hostile to those that live nearby. They knew the risks though.
Boris-island-airport still ticks all the boxes though.
It's fantastic we're breaking out of the EU straitjacket to become a global hub of the future.
IMO Heathrow won't be a viable hub in twenty years, even with three runways. Other countries will rapidly overtake us.
Unless hub-and-spoke is beaten by point-to-point ...
Well, of course it won't, Mr. J, and why should we care? People flying through transferring at Heathrow are not bringing squillions of quid to the UK, though some of them might buy a cup of coffee. In cash terms transit passengers are a dead loss.
The arguments for hub-and-spoke airports are well-rehearsed. For one thing, if you're on a spoke, you get less traffic and that's bad for both the airport and the region/country. That's just one reason.
Airports are an enabler for the economy, not a direct driver of it.
Thanks Mr. J. I agree about the Hub ans spoke versus the point to point argument and I agree with Boeing.
As for airports being an enabler: we have sold them off into private ownership. So should not the private owners pick up the full bill for any expansion they want to do? If my mate's building company wants to expand, HMG doesn't come rallying around to provide the dosh.
You, Mr Fox and Boeing might be right about point-to-point being the long-term future.
The problem you and they face is that Dubai, Beijing, Turkey, Abu Dhabi, Shenzhen, South Korea and others have all built, or are building, massive hub airports.
Now, it might all be nationalistic willy-waving, countries wanting the biggest and best to 'prove' their position in the world. Or it might be that they realise that it's the way they need to go to capture traffic and the ensuing benefits.
We've got one of the world's major hubs in Heathrow, but it's far too small. We could choose not to expand it and let it loose major hub status, but that's a really big counter-gamble. Amsterdam, Frankfurt and Paris will be very keen for us to make such a gamble.
@faisalislam: Tesco needs to take back control of Marmite supplies from Unilever... or perhaps from those pesky foreign currencies talking down the pound
The Faisal Islam Obsession strikes again....
His anti government bias and smug attitude has become all to obvious - I don't listen to him anymore, the same with that Jonah, Ed Conway
It does raise the wider issue as to just how many media journalists have become part of the out of touch metropolitan elite and are in for a big shock when no one listens to any of them.
Sky are obviously upset about Brexit. I keep a track of their ratings for Premier League football and they have fallen 25% in the last three years.
That's fine I'll go to Boots or pound shop or savers or 99p store or Asda or Sainsburys or Morrison's or my local pharmacy or online. Give it a rest. Sheesh.
Must be that nasty man Trump colluding with his Russian pals
Eventhough your being sarcastic, that wouldn't surprise anyone at this point.
What is amusing is that, while it is seemingly clear that the Wikileads e-mails are genuine, HRC is trying to bury the content by saying how it is all being orchestrated by the Russians.
She didn't seem too bothered about the due process of how information was accessed when it came to Trump's sex comments.
@faisalislam: Tesco needs to take back control of Marmite supplies from Unilever... or perhaps from those pesky foreign currencies talking down the pound
@faisalislam: Tesco needs to take back control of Marmite supplies from Unilever... or perhaps from those pesky foreign currencies talking down the pound
The Faisal Islam Obsession strikes again....
His anti government bias and smug attitude has become all to obvious - I don't listen to him anymore, the same with that Jonah, Ed Conway
It does raise the wider issue as to just how many media journalists have become part of the out of touch metropolitan elite and are in for a big shock when no one listens to any of them.
Say what you want about the BBC, at least their political editors are fairly balanced.
@faisalislam: Tesco needs to take back control of Marmite supplies from Unilever... or perhaps from those pesky foreign currencies talking down the pound
@faisalislam: Tesco needs to take back control of Marmite supplies from Unilever... or perhaps from those pesky foreign currencies talking down the pound
The Faisal Islam Obsession strikes again....
His anti government bias and smug attitude has become all to obvious - I don't listen to him anymore, the same with that Jonah, Ed Conway
It does raise the wider issue as to just how many media journalists have become part of the out of touch metropolitan elite and are in for a big shock when no one listens to any of them.
Say what you want about the BBC, at least their political editors are fairly balanced.
Fine. Then we'll buy our cars from countries that don't demand open borders and no limit to migration as part of the deal.
Why is it so important for Germany to insist that Britain continues to accept unlimited migration from Eastern Europe as part of a free trade arrangement?
No other free trade deal does or would include such an arrangement.
It ultimately is part of the long-term aim of the EU to eradicate the continent's nation-states by mixing all the peoples together so that we eventually form one polis, one Europe... Ein Reich, Ein Euro...
Germany doesn't insist on FoM for FTAs or SM access. It insists upon it for SM Membership. And I think you'll find many of the amazing trade deals we're going to negotiate post Brexit (* snorts* ) Will have a modest element of visa relaxation in them.
Visa relaxations for Indian students and Ozzie bar staff - oh noes. Not quite the same as unrestricted open doors (and open welfare state) to an entire continent.
Fine. Then we'll buy our cars from countries that don't demand open borders and no limit to migration as part of the deal.
Why is it so important for Germany to insist that Britain continues to accept unlimited migration from Eastern Europe as part of a free trade arrangement?
No other free trade deal does or would include such an arrangement.
It ultimately is part of the long-term aim of the EU to eradicate the continent's nation-states by mixing all the peoples together so that we eventually form one polis, one Europe... Ein Reich, Ein Euro...
Germany doesn't insist on FoM for FTAs or SM access. It insists upon it for SM Membership. And I think you'll find many of the amazing trade deals we're going to negotiate post Brexit (* snorts* ) Will have a modest element of visa relaxation in them.
They may well do. But freer movement between Canada, Australia and New Zealand (and the UK) as high-income countries, a long way away, with very similar culture is unlikely to cause either mass migration nor a political problem.
Actually, turning it on its head, emigration of *some* within the more depressed areas of the UK (as per historical situation) may actually be quite popular with former Leave voters in the North/Wales.
Very much in favour of free movement between Australia, New Zealand and Canada. My eldest emigrated to New Zealand 13 years ago and has married a Canadian recently and now lives in Vancouver. It would be great if they could move between these countries at will
Must be that nasty man Trump colluding with his Russian pals
Eventhough your being sarcastic, that wouldn't surprise anyone at this point.
What is amusing is that, while it is seemingly clear that the Wikileads e-mails are genuine, HRC is trying to bury the content by saying how it is all being orchestrated by the Russians.
She didn't seem too bothered about the due process of how information was accessed when it came to Trump's sex comments.
Access Hollywood tapes? Don't think the Russians leaked those.
@faisalislam: Tesco needs to take back control of Marmite supplies from Unilever... or perhaps from those pesky foreign currencies talking down the pound
@faisalislam: Tesco needs to take back control of Marmite supplies from Unilever... or perhaps from those pesky foreign currencies talking down the pound
The Faisal Islam Obsession strikes again....
His anti government bias and smug attitude has become all to obvious - I don't listen to him anymore, the same with that Jonah, Ed Conway
It does raise the wider issue as to just how many media journalists have become part of the out of touch metropolitan elite and are in for a big shock when no one listens to any of them.
Say what you want about the BBC, at least their political editors are fairly balanced.
I was speaking to a taxi driver in Edinburgh today who was talking about the programme he was listening to before the Brexit vote that had a panel of journalists on it - he said the most striking thing was that the journalists from places like Wigan and Sunderland were saying Brexit may happen while a the London-based journalists were absolutely confident Remain would walk it.
I love Paul Verhoeven's films. Under the surface there are some seriously subversive ideas, and enough gratuitous sex and violence to keep it interesting. "Black Book" is one of my all time favourite films.
Starship Troopers was a screwup though - he couldnt be bothered to read the book because he heard he might not like it. Instead he made a bad version of Armor - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Armor_(novel) - by accident.
A film of the book of Starship Troopers could be quite interesting - the psychology of being totally alone on a high tech battlefield for instances. In the book, the soldiers fight literally miles apart from their fellows.
Fine. Then we'll buy our cars from countries that don't demand open borders and no limit to migration as part of the deal.
Why is it so important for Germany to insist that Britain continues to accept unlimited migration from Eastern Europe as part of a free trade arrangement?
No other free trade deal does or would include such an arrangement.
It ultimately is part of the long-term aim of the EU to eradicate the continent's nation-states by mixing all the peoples together so that we eventually form one polis, one Europe... Ein Reich, Ein Euro...
Germany doesn't insist on FoM for FTAs or SM access. It insists upon it for SM Membership. And I think you'll find many of the amazing trade deals we're going to negotiate post Brexit (* snorts* ) Will have a modest element of visa relaxation in them.
They may well do. But freer movement between Canada, Australia and New Zealand (and the UK) as high-income countries, a long way away, with very similar culture is unlikely to cause either mass migration nor a political problem.
Actually, turning it on its head, emigration of *some* within the more depressed areas of the UK (as per historical situation) may actually be quite popular with former Leave voters in the North/Wales.
It's 2016 Casino, the idea FTAs with rich, white Anglosphere countries is going to be enough is ludicrous. G20 economies will be in a strong position to demand modest visa relaxation and they will demand it. Not that your point re ' White Commonwealth ' immigration vs East European immigration is wrong. It'll be much more modest. But #1 I didn't set an absurd net migration target that every liberalised visa makes harder to achieve. #2 The fact the brightest and best of ANZC won't come and work here for low wages and to learn English is actually an economic blow. #3 Why on earth does Canada or Australia want to give visas to state dependent leave voters with no post 16 formal qualifications ? #4 Why are Canadian graduates making London richer and more cosmopolitan less threatening to Doncaster than German or French ones ?
Every UK journalist is going to make this joke over the next 24 hours
@bbcnickrobinson: If Cameron had warned us that we might lose our Marmite Project Fear might just have worked. Brexit - you either love it or hate it pic.twitter.com/wGf5Cab0Tm
Fine. Then we'll buy our cars from countries that don't demand open borders and no limit to migration as part of the deal.
Why is it so important for Germany to insist that Britain continues to accept unlimited migration from Eastern Europe as part of a free trade arrangement?
No other free trade deal does or would include such an arrangement.
It ultimately is part of the long-term aim of the EU to eradicate the continent's nation-states by mixing all the peoples together so that we eventually form one polis, one Europe... Ein Reich, Ein Euro...
Germany doesn't insist on FoM for FTAs or SM access. It insists upon it for SM Membership. And I think you'll find many of the amazing trade deals we're going to negotiate post Brexit (* snorts* ) Will have a modest element of visa relaxation in them.
They may well do. But freer movement between Canada, Australia and New Zealand (and the UK) as high-income countries, a long way away, with very similar culture is unlikely to cause either mass migration nor a political problem.
Actually, turning it on its head, emigration of *some* within the more depressed areas of the UK (as per historical situation) may actually be quite popular with former Leave voters in the North/Wales.
It's 2016 Casino, the idea FTAs with rich, white Anglosphere countries is going to be enough is ludicrous. G20 economies will be in a strong position to demand modest visa relaxation and they will demand it. Not that your point re ' White Commonwealth ' immigration vs East European immigration is wrong. It'll be much more modest. But #1 I didn't set an absurd net migration target that every liberalised visa makes harder to achieve. #2 The fact the brightest and best of ANZC won't come and work here for low wages and to learn English is actually an economic blow. #3 Why on earth does Canada or Australia want to give visas to state dependent leave voters with no post 16 formal qualifications ? #4 Why are Canadian graduates making London richer and more cosmopolitan less threatening to Doncaster than German or French ones ?
@faisalislam: Tesco needs to take back control of Marmite supplies from Unilever... or perhaps from those pesky foreign currencies talking down the pound
@faisalislam: Tesco needs to take back control of Marmite supplies from Unilever... or perhaps from those pesky foreign currencies talking down the pound
The Faisal Islam Obsession strikes again....
His anti government bias and smug attitude has become all to obvious - I don't listen to him anymore, the same with that Jonah, Ed Conway
It does raise the wider issue as to just how many media journalists have become part of the out of touch metropolitan elite and are in for a big shock when no one listens to any of them.
Say what you want about the BBC, at least their political editors are fairly balanced.
I was speaking to a taxi driver in Edinburgh today who was talking about the programme he was listening to before the Brexit vote that had a panel of journalists on it - he said the most striking thing was that the journalists from places like Wigan and Sunderland were saying Brexit may happen while a the London-based journalists were absolutely confident Remain would walk it.
The old story - like the lady writing for the Village Voice who *knew* that Mondale had won. No-one she knew had voted for Reagan.
@faisalislam: Tesco needs to take back control of Marmite supplies from Unilever... or perhaps from those pesky foreign currencies talking down the pound
@faisalislam: Tesco needs to take back control of Marmite supplies from Unilever... or perhaps from those pesky foreign currencies talking down the pound
The Faisal Islam Obsession strikes again....
His anti government bias and smug attitude has become all to obvious - I don't listen to him anymore, the same with that Jonah, Ed Conway
It does raise the wider issue as to just how many media journalists have become part of the out of touch metropolitan elite and are in for a big shock when no one listens to any of them.
Say what you want about the BBC, at least their political editors are fairly balanced.
I would largely agree with that and I am surprised that most of Sky presenters and politicos do not hide their bias against the government
Must be that nasty man Trump colluding with his Russian pals
Eventhough your being sarcastic, that wouldn't surprise anyone at this point.
What is amusing is that, while it is seemingly clear that the Wikileads e-mails are genuine, HRC is trying to bury the content by saying how it is all being orchestrated by the Russians.
She didn't seem too bothered about the due process of how information was accessed when it came to Trump's sex comments.
Access Hollywood tapes? Don't think the Russians leaked those.
They certainly didn't - but someone did and HRC was certainly not downplaying the contents of the tapes just because they had been leaked.
This tallies with the rumours I've been hearing within the industry.
A sensible decision, albeit a bit hostile to those that live nearby. They knew the risks though.
Boris-island-airport still ticks all the boxes though.
It's fantastic we're breaking out of the EU straitjacket to become a global hub of the future.
Unless hub-and-spoke is beaten by point-to-point ...
The arguments for hub-and-spoke airports are well-rehearsed. For one thing, if you're on a spoke, you get less traffic and that's bad for both the airport and the region/country. That's just one reason.
Airports are an enabler for the economy, not a direct driver of it.
Thanks Mr. J. I agree about the Hub ans spoke versus the point to point argument and I agree with Boeing.
As for airports being an enabler: we have sold them off into private ownership. So should not the private owners pick up the full bill for any expansion they want to do? If my mate's building company wants to expand, HMG doesn't come rallying around to provide the dosh.
The plan is that passengers pay for it in the form of increased airport charges.
Heathrow already has the highest charges in the world. BA say that passengers wouldn't accept the increase that is necessary (double) and BA plan to increasingly use Dublin as a hub as a consequence.
The impact of increased passenger charges was not addressed or modeled in the Davies study.
Where is your source for Heathrow having the highest charges in the world?
I used to be a major airport investor, owning shares in BAA, Copehagen, Zurich, Auckland, and Frankfurt airports, and I kept a very detailed spreadsheet of world airport charges.
Now, it's about five years out of date, but it had Heathrow (because of the way it was regulated) having among the lowest charges in the world, which was why Heathrow slots were so valuable.
Heathrow passenger charges are about £29 for Europe destinations and £41 for long haul. Gatwick is about £12 and Manchester about £10 as far as I can see.
@faisalislam: Tesco needs to take back control of Marmite supplies from Unilever... or perhaps from those pesky foreign currencies talking down the pound
The Faisal Islam Obsession strikes again....
I have wondered recently if Faisal Islam is Scott P.
This tallies with the rumours I've been hearing within the industry.
A sensible decision, albeit a bit hostile to those that live nearby. They knew the risks though.
Boris-island-airport still ticks all the boxes though.
It's fantastic we're breaking out of the EU straitjacket to become a global hub of the future.
Unless hub-and-spoke is beaten by point-to-point ...
The arguments for hub-and-spoke airports are well-rehearsed. For one thing, if you're on a spoke, you get less traffic and that's bad for both the airport and the region/country. That's just one reason.
Airports are an enabler for the economy, not a direct driver of it.
Thanks Mr. J. I agree about the Hub ans spoke versus the point to point argument and I agree with Boeing.
As for airports being an enabler: we have sold them off into private ownership. So should not the private owners pick up the full bill for any expansion they want to do? If my mate's building company wants to expand, HMG doesn't come rallying around to provide the dosh.
The plan is that passengers pay for it in the form of increased airport charges.
Heathrow already has the highest charges in the world. BA say that passengers wouldn't accept the increase that is necessary (double) and BA plan to increasingly use Dublin as a hub as a consequence.
The impact of increased passenger charges was not addressed or modeled in the Davies study.
Where is your source for Heathrow having the highest charges in the world?
I used to be a major airport investor, owning shares in BAA, Copehagen, Zurich, Auckland, and Frankfurt airports, and I kept a very detailed spreadsheet of world airport charges.
Now, it's about five years out of date, but it had Heathrow (because of the way it was regulated) having among the lowest charges in the world, which was why Heathrow slots were so valuable.
Heathrow passenger charges are about £29 for Europe destinations and £41 for long haul. Gatwick is about £12 and Manchester about £10 as far as I can see.
That's the highest in the UK then, not the highest in the world. As the UK's primary hub airport, costs being the highest in the UK would make sense. Where is the source for highest in the world?
This tallies with the rumours I've been hearing within the industry.
A sensible decision, albeit a bit hostile to those that live nearby. They knew the risks though.
Boris-island-airport still ticks all the boxes though.
It's fantastic we're breaking out of the EU straitjacket to become a global hub of the future.
IMO Heathrow won't be a viable hub in twenty years, even with three runways. Other countries will rapidly overtake us.
Unless hub-and-spoke is beaten by point-to-point ...
Well, of course it won't, Mr. J, and why should we care? People flying through transferring at Heathrow are not bringing squillions of quid to the UK, though some of them might buy a cup of coffee. In cash terms transit passengers are a dead loss.
The arguments for hub-and-spoke airports are well-rehearsed. For one thing, if you're on a spoke, you get less traffic and that's bad for both the airport and the region/country. That's just one reason.
Airports are an enabler for the economy, not a direct driver of it.
:
You, Mr Fox and Boeing might be right about point-to-point being the long-term future.
The problem you and they face is that Dubai, Beijing, Turkey, Abu Dhabi, Shenzhen, South Korea and others have all built, or are building, massive hub airports.
Now, it might all be nationalistic willy-waving, countries wanting the biggest and best to 'prove' their position in the world. Or it might be that they realise that it's the way they need to go to capture traffic and the ensuing benefits.
We've got one of the world's major hubs in Heathrow, but it's far too small. We could choose not to expand it and let it loose major hub status, but that's a really big counter-gamble. Amsterdam, Frankfurt and Paris will be very keen for us to make such a gamble.
Hub and spoke was often (in the past) set up by government fiat, cajoling and money. The classic example of this is the US.
The future is almost certainly a mix of the two modes - point to point only works above a certain passenger level. But there will be alot more point to point
There is something serious about my point...we are gerrymandered by our oldies. They distort political policy....so even in the future, if a lefty party becomes popular it will have to play so much to the voting pensioners, much like Brown and Blair did, that it will set further precedents which the Tories have to follow. Working age benefits have been axed...pensioners benefits haven't. The only reason to do this is political. There is no utility value to skew all resources to the oldies.
So, policies like intensive health treatments should be considered on utility grounds...age, and so forth.
I saw you posted a view on abortion limits the other day....something I find disgustingly abhorrent..... not abortion per se which is a woman's choice, just right wing moralist men like yourself who think they can speak about it.
If you think 20 weeks is the right limit, go and spend some time at some of the specialist children's units that now deal predominantly with profoundly disabled children born prematurely, many of whom live beyond their infancy, but don't make adolescence, doubly incontinent, blind and unable to eat by themselves. A 20 week limit would result in many more of these children being born.
You, Mr Fox and Boeing might be right about point-to-point being the long-term future.
The problem you and they face is that Dubai, Beijing, Turkey, Abu Dhabi, Shenzhen, South Korea and others have all built, or are building, massive hub airports.
Now, it might all be nationalistic willy-waving, countries wanting the biggest and best to 'prove' their position in the world. Or it might be that they realise that it's the way they need to go to capture traffic and the ensuing benefits.
We've got one of the world's major hubs in Heathrow, but it's far too small. We could choose not to expand it and let it loose major hub status, but that's a really big counter-gamble. Amsterdam, Frankfurt and Paris will be very keen for us to make such a gamble.
Mr. J, Amsterdam and Paris have already got those big multi-runway airports in place and have had them for many years. However, the ghastly mess that is Heathrow does not seem to be doing too badly. Perhaps there are other issues at work.
I am available to discuss the point further at the Baron of Beef at any lunchtime that suits you given 48 hours notice
Fine. Then we'll buy our cars from countries that don't demand open borders and no limit to migration as part of the deal.
Why is it so important for Germany to insist that Britain continues to accept unlimited migration from Eastern Europe as part of a free trade arrangement?
No other free trade deal does or would include such an arrangement.
It ultimately is part of the long-term aim of the EU to eradicate the continent's nation-states by mixing all the peoples together so that we eventually form one polis, one Europe... Ein Reich, Ein Euro...
Germany doesn't insist on FoM for FTAs or SM access. It insists upon it for SM Membership. And I think you'll find many of the amazing trade deals we're going to negotiate post Brexit (* snorts* ) Will have a modest element of visa relaxation in them.
They may well do. But freer movement between Canada, Australia and New Zealand (and the UK) as high-income countries, a long way away, with very similar culture is unlikely to cause either mass migration nor a political problem.
Actually, turning it on its head, emigration of *some* within the more depressed areas of the UK (as per historical situation) may actually be quite popular with former Leave voters in the North/Wales.
Very much in favour of free movement between Australia, New Zealand and Canada. My eldest emigrated to New Zealand 13 years ago and has married a Canadian recently and now lives in Vancouver. It would be great if they could move between these countries at will
It would certainly solve the problem of net immigration!
In this 2010 survey 75% of Brits said they wanted to Emigrate:
@faisalislam: Tesco needs to take back control of Marmite supplies from Unilever... or perhaps from those pesky foreign currencies talking down the pound
@faisalislam: Tesco needs to take back control of Marmite supplies from Unilever... or perhaps from those pesky foreign currencies talking down the pound
The Faisal Islam Obsession strikes again....
His anti government bias and smug attitude has become all to obvious - I don't listen to him anymore, the same with that Jonah, Ed Conway
It does raise the wider issue as to just how many media journalists have become part of the out of touch metropolitan elite and are in for a big shock when no one listens to any of them.
Say what you want about the BBC, at least their political editors are fairly balanced.
I was speaking to a taxi driver in Edinburgh today who was talking about the programme he was listening to before the Brexit vote that had a panel of journalists on it - he said the most striking thing was that the journalists from places like Wigan and Sunderland were saying Brexit may happen while a the London-based journalists were absolutely confident Remain would walk it.
The old story - like the lady writing for the Village Voice who *knew* that Mondale had won. No-one she knew had voted for Reagan.
Sorry, an odd point for you to make - he was talking about a debate before the vote and what struck him as different between London based journalists and those not in London. Your Mondale story relates to something different.
Fine. Then we'll buy our cars from countries that don't demand open borders and no limit to migration as part of the deal.
Why is it so important for Germany to insist that Britain continues to accept unlimited migration from Eastern Europe as part of a free trade arrangement?
No other free trade deal does or would include such an arrangement.
It ultimately is part of the long-term aim of the EU to eradicate the continent's nation-states by mixing all the peoples together so that we eventually form one polis, one Europe... Ein Reich, Ein Euro...
Germany doesn't insist on FoM for FTAs or SM access. It insists upon it for SM Membership. And I think you'll find many of the amazing trade deals we're going to negotiate post Brexit (* snorts* ) Will have a modest element of visa relaxation in them.
Visa relaxations for Indian students and Ozzie bar staff - oh noes. Not quite the same as unrestricted open doors (and open welfare state) to an entire continent.
Sorry but #1 May's been clear the ludicrous net migration target stands. She's only ditched the time scale. #2 How on earth is Bar Work ' high skilled ' ? Skilled in many ways but High Skilled ? #3 Rudd's conference speech made clear the non Russell group universities are going to have visas slashed to help meet point #1. So Brexit means less Indian students. Before it means more as the price of a FTA in the year 2030. It's almost as f the immigration debate is a confused and hypocritical mess.
I love Paul Verhoeven's films. Under the surface there are some seriously subversive ideas, and enough gratuitous sex and violence to keep it interesting. "Black Book" is one of my all time favourite films.
Starship Troopers was a screwup though - he couldnt be bothered to read the book because he heard he might not like it. Instead he made a bad version of Armor - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Armor_(novel) - by accident.
A film of the book of Starship Troopers could be quite interesting - the psychology of being totally alone on a high tech battlefield for instances. In the book, the soldiers fight literally miles apart from their fellows.
"the psychology of being totally alone on a high tech battlefield for instances. In the book, the soldiers fight literally miles apart from their fellows."
Fine. Then we'll buy our cars from countries that don't demand open borders and no limit to migration as part of the deal.
Why is it so important for Germany to insist that Britain continues to accept unlimited migration from Eastern Europe as part of a free trade arrangement?
No other free trade deal does or would include such an arrangement.
It ultimately is part of the long-term aim of the EU to eradicate the continent's nation-states by mixing all the peoples together so that we eventually form one polis, one Europe... Ein Reich, Ein Euro...
Germany doesn't insist on FoM for FTAs or SM access. It insists upon it for SM Membership. And I think you'll find many of the amazing trade deals we're going to negotiate post Brexit (* snorts* ) Will have a modest element of visa relaxation in them.
They may well do. But freer movement between Canada, Australia and New Zealand (and the UK) as high-income countries, a long way away, with very similar culture is unlikely to cause either mass migration nor a political problem.
Actually, turning it on its head, emigration of *some* within the more depressed areas of the UK (as per historical situation) may actually be quite popular with former Leave voters in the North/Wales.
It's 2016 Casino, the idea FTAs with rich, white Anglosphere countries is going to be enough is ludicrous. G20 economies will be in a strong position to demand modest visa relaxation and they will demand it. Not that your point re ' White Commonwealth ' immigration vs East European immigration is wrong. It'll be much more modest. But #1 I didn't set an absurd net migration target that every liberalised visa makes harder to achieve. #2 The fact the brightest and best of ANZC won't come and work here for low wages and to learn English is actually an economic blow. #3 Why on earth does Canada or Australia want to give visas to state dependent leave voters with no post 16 formal qualifications ? #4 Why are Canadian graduates making London richer and more cosmopolitan less threatening to Doncaster than German or French ones ?
Because they are our kith and kin.
Let's crank up the visa quota for Bangladeshi train drivers. The ones we have are clearly overqualified.
@faisalislam: Tesco needs to take back control of Marmite supplies from Unilever... or perhaps from those pesky foreign currencies talking down the pound
The Faisal Islam Obsession strikes again....
I have wondered recently if Faisal Islam is Scott P.
Is Islam scottish ?
Don't know. But, he's a twit, for sure.
Every time I hear him I recall "Lord High Chancellor"
@timoconnorbl: Brexit means no Colman's English Mustard.
I'm sorry, but it would take a heart of stone not to laugh.
Does anyone give a toss?
Unilever is having a hard time anyway in a number of areas - demand for Flora has collapsed, sales of items such as Lynx are falling and they suffer from the same "stuck in the middle" problem that impacts retailers such as Next and M&S i.e. their brands are not premium enough to appeal to a niche and not cheap enough to appeal to the cost-conscious.
I love Paul Verhoeven's films. Under the surface there are some seriously subversive ideas, and enough gratuitous sex and violence to keep it interesting. "Black Book" is one of my all time favourite films.
Starship Troopers was a screwup though - he couldnt be bothered to read the book because he heard he might not like it. Instead he made a bad version of Armor - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Armor_(novel) - by accident.
A film of the book of Starship Troopers could be quite interesting - the psychology of being totally alone on a high tech battlefield for instances. In the book, the soldiers fight literally miles apart from their fellows.
The book and the film are very different, but both good. The film is a great illustration of the appeal of fascism. Much of the book is devoted to the teachers lecture, which is a wordy justification of militarism, but there are some aspects that are a bit disturbing in the book too, such as the attack on the Skinnies.
Must be that nasty man Trump colluding with his Russian pals
Eventhough your being sarcastic, that wouldn't surprise anyone at this point.
What is amusing is that, while it is seemingly clear that the Wikileads e-mails are genuine, HRC is trying to bury the content by saying how it is all being orchestrated by the Russians.
She didn't seem too bothered about the due process of how information was accessed when it came to Trump's sex comments.
Access Hollywood tapes? Don't think the Russians leaked those.
They certainly didn't - but someone did and HRC was certainly not downplaying the contents of the tapes just because they had been leaked.
Nobody should "downplay" someone bragging about sexual assault.
Your trying to make some sort of moral equivalent between Clinton who actually has morals and Trump who doesn't and failing badly.
Fine. Then we'll buy our cars from countries that don't demand open borders and no limit to migration as part of the deal.
Why is it so important for Germany to insist that Britain continues to accept unlimited migration from Eastern Europe as part of a free trade arrangement?
No other free trade deal does or would include such an arrangement.
It ultimately is part of the long-term aim of the EU to eradicate the continent's nation-states by mixing all the peoples together so that we eventually form one polis, one Europe... Ein Reich, Ein Euro...
Germany doesn't insist on FoM for FTAs or SM access. It insists upon it for SM Membership. And I think you'll find many of the amazing trade deals we're going to negotiate post Brexit (* snorts* ) Will have a modest element of visa relaxation in them.
They may well do. But freer movement between Canada, Australia and New Zealand (and the UK) as high-income countries, a long way away, with very similar culture is unlikely to cause either mass migration nor a political problem.
Actually, turning it on its head, emigration of *some* within the more depressed areas of the UK (as per historical situation) may actually be quite popular with former Leave voters in the North/Wales.
It's 2016 Casino, the idea FTAs with rich, white Anglosphere countries is going to be enough is ludicrous. G20 economies will be in a strong position to demand modest visa relaxation and they will demand it. Not that your point re ' White Commonwealth ' immigration vs East European immigration is wrong. It'll be much more modest. But #1 I didn't set an absurd net migration target that every liberalised visa makes harder to achieve. #2 The fact the brightest and best of ANZC won't come and work here for low wages and to learn English is actually an economic blow. #3 Why on earth does Canada or Australia want to give visas to state dependent leave voters with no post 16 formal qualifications ? #4 Why are Canadian graduates making London richer and more cosmopolitan less threatening to Doncaster than German or French ones ?
Because they are our kith and kin.
Yes you absolutely right. The ' White Commonwealth ' fantasy has always been a significant plank of this nonsense.
You, Mr Fox and Boeing might be right about point-to-point being the long-term future.
The problem you and they face is that Dubai, Beijing, Turkey, Abu Dhabi, Shenzhen, South Korea and others have all built, or are building, massive hub airports.
Now, it might all be nationalistic willy-waving, countries wanting the biggest and best to 'prove' their position in the world. Or it might be that they realise that it's the way they need to go to capture traffic and the ensuing benefits.
We've got one of the world's major hubs in Heathrow, but it's far too small. We could choose not to expand it and let it loose major hub status, but that's a really big counter-gamble. Amsterdam, Frankfurt and Paris will be very keen for us to make such a gamble.
Mr. J, Amsterdam and Paris have already got those big multi-runway airports in place and have had them for many years. However, the ghastly mess that is Heathrow does not seem to be doing too badly. Perhaps there are other issues at work.
I am available to discuss the point further at the Baron of Beef at any lunchtime that suits you given 48 hours notice
Yes, there are other factors at work: at a guess, the airlines flying to each airport, charges, associated transport, etc. But Heathrow has some negatives as well: it is operating at very near full capacity, meaning any delays propagate through and there is no room for expansion.
Expanding or not expanding are both gambles.
I'd love to meet up at the BoB. Most weekend lunchtimes would suit, or a Friday when the little 'un's at nursery. Any other day and the little 'un would have to be dragged along.
There is something serious about my point...we are gerrymandered by our oldies. They distort political policy....so even in the future, if a lefty party becomes popular it will have to play so much to the voting pensioners, much like Brown and Blair did, that it will set further precedents which the Tories have to follow. Working age benefits have been axed...pensioners benefits haven't. The only reason to do this is political. There is no utility value to skew all resources to the oldies.
So, policies like intensive health treatments should be considered on utility grounds...age, and so forth.
I saw you posted a view on abortion limits the other day....something I find disgustingly abhorrent..... not abortion per se which is a woman's choice, just right wing moralist men like yourself who think they can speak about it.
If you think 20 weeks is the right limit, go and spend some time at some of the specialist children's units that now deal predominantly with profoundly disabled children born prematurely, many of whom live beyond their infancy, but don't make adolescence, doubly incontinent, blind and unable to eat by themselves. A 20 week limit would result in many more of these children being born.
One could as easily argue that we are gerrymandered by the poor. Taxpayers spend loads of money on these useless eaters, who the politicians pander to. It would surely be better for all of us if they died or emigrated. At any rate, stop them from breeding.
Fortunately, such opinions are no longer prevalent.
This tallies with the rumours I've been hearing within the industry.
A sensible decision, albeit a bit hostile to those that live nearby. They knew the risks though.
Boris-island-airport still ticks all the boxes though.
It's fantastic we're breaking out of the EU straitjacket to become a global hub of the future.
Unless hub-and-spoke is beaten by point-to-point ...
Airports are an enabler for the economy, not a direct driver of it.
The plan is that passengers pay for it in the form of increased airport charges.
Heathrow already has the highest charges in the world. BA say that passengers wouldn't accept the increase that is necessary (double) and BA plan to increasingly use Dublin as a hub as a consequence.
The impact of increased passenger charges was not addressed or modeled in the Davies study.
Where is your source for Heathrow having the highest charges in the world?
I used to be a major airport investor, owning shares in BAA, Copehagen, Zurich, Auckland, and Frankfurt airports, and I kept a very detailed spreadsheet of world airport charges.
Now, it's about five years out of date, but it had Heathrow (because of the way it was regulated) having among the lowest charges in the world, which was why Heathrow slots were so valuable.
Heathrow passenger charges are about £29 for Europe destinations and £41 for long haul. Gatwick is about £12 and Manchester about £10 as far as I can see.
That's the highest in the UK then, not the highest in the world. As the UK's primary hub airport, costs being the highest in the UK would make sense. Where is the source for highest in the world?
Schipol is 15 Euro. But I'm not going to check every airport in the world. When I said Heathrow has the highest charges in the world, I meant it is very expensive already. That would have been a more accurate expression of the same sentiment in the argument that it is problematic for Heathrow to further increase its charges to recoup its investment. - And that the impact on demand was not considered by the Davies Commission.
Must be that nasty man Trump colluding with his Russian pals
Eventhough your being sarcastic, that wouldn't surprise anyone at this point.
What is amusing is that, while it is seemingly clear that the Wikileads e-mails are genuine, HRC is trying to bury the content by saying how it is all being orchestrated by the Russians.
She didn't seem too bothered about the due process of how information was accessed when it came to Trump's sex comments.
Access Hollywood tapes? Don't think the Russians leaked those.
They certainly didn't - but someone did and HRC was certainly not downplaying the contents of the tapes just because they had been leaked.
Nobody should "downplay" someone bragging about sexual assault.
Your trying to make some sort of moral equivalent between Clinton who actually has morals and Trump who doesn't and failing badly.
Not at all. I have said on here before I think Trump is a sleazebag and a douche. But Clinto having morals? You are having a laugh, aren't you?
I love Paul Verhoeven's films. Under the surface there are some seriously subversive ideas, and enough gratuitous sex and violence to keep it interesting. "Black Book" is one of my all time favourite films.
Starship Troopers was a screwup though - he couldnt be bothered to read the book because he heard he might not like it. Instead he made a bad version of Armor - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Armor_(novel) - by accident.
A film of the book of Starship Troopers could be quite interesting - the psychology of being totally alone on a high tech battlefield for instances. In the book, the soldiers fight literally miles apart from their fellows.
The book and the film are very different, but both good. The film is a great illustration of the appeal of fascism. Much of the book is devoted to the teachers lecture, which is a wordy justification of militarism, but there are some aspects that are a bit disturbing in the book too, such as the attack on the Skinnies.
The film is fun, but it's a pretty peculiar form of fascism in which a White male commander who fails is replaced by a Polynesian woman.
On topic I love the fact that Londoners on one hand can vote Ken as an Independent many moons ago, enthusiastically support Boris (twice) and now Sadiq.
London's a wonderfully vibrant, diverse, fair and open minded City. It represents the best of the British. It's a great pity I do not like any of it's football teams,,,,,,
On topic I love the fact that Londoners on one hand can vote Ken as an Independent many moons ago, enthusiastically support Boris (twice) and now Sadiq.
London's a wonderfully vibrant, diverse, fair and open minded City. It represents the best of the British. It's a great pity I do not like any of it's football teams,,,,,,
London is a great city because it is multicultural. However, the best football team is in Manchester.
This tallies with the rumours I've been hearing within the industry.
A sensible decision, albeit a bit hostile to those that live nearby. They knew the risks though.
Boris-island-airport still ticks all the boxes though.
It's fantastic we're breaking out of the EU straitjacket to become a global hub of the future.
IMO Heathrow won't be a viable hub in twenty years, even with three runways. Other countries will rapidly overtake us.
Unless hub-and-spoke is beaten by point-to-point ...
Well, of course it won't, Mr. J, and why should we .
The arguments for hub-and-spoke airports are well-rehearsed. For one thing, if you're on a spoke, you get less traffic and that's bad for both the airport and the region/country. That's just one reason.
Airports are an enabler for the economy, not a direct driver of it.
Thanks Mr. J. I agree about the Hub ans spoke versus the point to point argument and I agree with Boeing.
As for airports being an enabler: we have sold them off into
You, Mr Fox and Boeing might be right about point-to-point being the long-term future.
The problem you and they face is that Dubai, Beijing, Turkey, Abu Dhabi, Shenzhen, South Korea and others have all built, or are building, massive hub airports.
Now, it might all be nationalistic willy-waving, countries wanting the biggest and best to 'prove' their position in the world. Or it might be that they realise that it's the way they need to go to capture traffic and the ensuing benefits.
We've got one of the world's major hubs in Heathrow, but it's far too small. We could choose not to expand it and let it loose major hub status, but that's a really big counter-gamble. Amsterdam, Frankfurt and Paris will be very keen for us to make such a gamble.
As air traffic numbers remorselessly rise in a globalised world where stag parties go to Prague rather than Blackpool, and there are more diaspora communities (the reason that PIA fly to Birmingham direct) more and more point to point flights become viable. I think Boeing have this one right.
Incidentally, can I recommend this interview with the first man to land at Heathrow:
The Great War Interviews, 13. Norman Macmillan: www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/p01tdcrk via @bbciplayer
His description of the loniliness of air combat using the high tech of his day is very insightful too.
Anyway I hope everyone is well. There have been some very interesting and thoughtful thread discussions recently. I suspect as events unfold the Brexit discussion will become more complex, involve more compromises and much less binary. I'll be taking a short break from commenting as there doesn't seem anything left to say at this stage. My best wishes to those that sustain this community.
You, Mr Fox and Boeing might be right about point-to-point being the long-term future.
Mr. J, Amsterdam and Paris have already got those big multi-runway airports in place and have had them for many years. However, the ghastly mess that is Heathrow does not seem to be doing too badly. Perhaps there are other issues at work.
I am available to discuss the point further at the Baron of Beef at any lunchtime that suits you given 48 hours notice
Yes, there are other factors at work: at a guess, the airlines flying to each airport, charges, associated transport, etc. But Heathrow has some negatives as well: it is operating at very near full capacity, meaning any delays propagate through and there is no room for expansion.
Expanding or not expanding are both gambles.
"Speaking at New Civil Engineer’s Airports conference earlier this year, UK Civil Aviation Authority (CAA) chief executive Andrew Haines said that even if either Heathrow or Gatwick was given permission to expand, they could face challenges securing the required investors.
He said that because the project did not have government assurance, it would not be bailed out should costs rise and investors may find it difficult to take on the risk.
“There is no track record of regulation being applied to something of this size,” he said.
Haines explained that it was genuinely unprecedented for there to be a major multi-billion pound infrastructure investment of this scale with absolutely no government guarantee or assistance. He said that the nearest project in terms of scale of investment is Hinkley Point C nuclear power station, and even that comes with government guarantee".
Fine. Then we'll buy our cars from countries that don't demand open borders and no limit to migration as part of the deal.
Why is it so important for Germany to insist that Britain continues to accept unlimited migration from Eastern Europe as part of a free trade arrangement?
No other free trade deal does or would include such an arrangement.
It ultimately is part of the long-term aim of the EU to eradicate the continent's nation-states by mixing all the peoples together so that we eventually form one polis, one Europe... Ein Reich, Ein Euro...
Germany doesn't insist on FoM for FTAs or SM access. It insists upon it for SM Membership. And I think you'll find many of the amazing trade deals we're going to negotiate post Brexit (* snorts* ) Will have a modest element of visa relaxation in them.
They may well do. But freer movement between Canada, Australia and New Zealand (and the UK) as high-income countries, a long way away, with very similar culture is unlikely to cause either mass migration nor a political problem.
Actually, turning it on its head, emigration of *some* within the more depressed areas of the UK (as per historical situation) may actually be quite popular with former Leave voters in the North/Wales.
Very much in favour of free movement between Australia, New Zealand and Canada. My eldest emigrated to New Zealand 13 years ago and has married a Canadian recently and now lives in Vancouver. It would be great if they could move between these countries at will
It would certainly solve the problem of net immigration!
In this 2010 survey 75% of Brits said they wanted to Emigrate:
Until it comes to it. It is a heartbreaking decision for many families who may be unable to see their grandchildren grow, feel their loved ones are far distant (as they are), and in many cases those who emigrate return fairly soon as the worries and stress we all feel are no different no matter where you are but being so far away can make them much worse.
My wife and I have had many tearful farewells when our son was in New Zealand and to be entirely selfish we are pleased he is happily married in Vancouver which is within 9 hours or so rather than 27 to NZ
Fine. Then we'll buy our cars from countries that don't demand open borders and no limit to migration as part of the deal.
Why is it so important for Germany to insist that Britain continues to accept unlimited migration from Eastern Europe as part of a free trade arrangement?
No other free trade deal does or would include such an arrangement.
It ultimately is part of the long-term aim of the EU to eradicate the continent's nation-states by mixing all the peoples together so that we eventually form one polis, one Europe... Ein Reich, Ein Euro...
Germany doesn't insist on FoM for FTAs or SM access. It insists upon it for SM Membership. And I think you'll find many of the amazing trade deals we're going to negotiate post Brexit (* snorts* ) Will have a modest element of visa relaxation in them.
They may well do. But freer movement between Canada, Australia and New Zealand (and the UK) as high-income countries, a long way away, with very similar culture is unlikely to cause either mass migration nor a political problem.
Actually, turning it on its head, emigration of *some* within the more depressed areas of the UK (as per historical situation) may actually be quite popular with former Leave voters in the North/Wales.
Very much in favour of free
It would certainly solve the problem of net immigration!
In this 2010 survey 75% of Brits said they wanted to Emigrate:
Until it comes to it. It is a heartbreaking decision for many families who may be unable to see their grandchildren grow, feel their loved ones are far distant (as they are), and in many cases those who emigrate return fairly soon as the worries and stress we all feel are no different no matter where you are but being so far away can make them much worse.
My wife and I have had many tearful farewells when our son was in New Zealand and to be entirely selfish we are pleased he is happily married in Vancouver which is within 9 hours or so rather than 27 to NZ
I have emigtrated twice, 5 years in the USA and 18 months in Australasia. In the internet world it is much easier. I Facebook my NZ cousins most weeks, sometimes while texting friends in Malawi.
In 1990 I sent an airletter from NZ to my mum each week.The world is a much smaller place now.
There is something serious about my point...we are gerrymandered by our oldies. They distort political policy....so even in the future, if a lefty party becomes popular it will have to play so much to the voting pensioners, much like Brown and Blair did, that it will set further precedents which the Tories have to follow. Working age benefits have been axed...pensioners benefits haven't. The only reason to do this is political. There is no utility value to skew all resources to the oldies.
So, policies like intensive health treatments should be considered on utility grounds...age, and so forth.
I saw you posted a view on abortion limits the other day....something I find disgustingly abhorrent..... not abortion per se which is a woman's choice, just right wing moralist men like yourself who think they can speak about it.
If you think 20 weeks is the right limit, go and spend some time at some of the specialist children's units that now deal predominantly with profoundly disabled children born prematurely, many of whom live beyond their infancy, but don't make adolescence, doubly incontinent, blind and unable to eat by themselves. A 20 week limit would result in many more of these children being born.
One could as easily argue that we are gerrymandered by the poor. Taxpayers spend loads of money on these useless eaters, who the politicians pander to. It would surely be better for all of us if they died or emigrated. At any rate, stop them from breeding.
Fortunately, such opinions are no longer prevalent.
Rubbish re pensioners' benefits; they're contributory anyway so they're not 'unearned'.
Even the US old-age pension is more generous than ours, which was emasculated by Thatcher. The triple lock ensures that the state pension may very slowly recover the value relative to other incomes which it had in 1978.
There is something serious about my point...we are gerrymandered by our oldies. They distort political policy....so even in the future, if a lefty party becomes popular it will have to play so much to the voting pensioners, much like Brown and Blair did, that it will set further precedents which the Tories have to follow. Working age benefits have been axed...pensioners benefits haven't. The only reason to do this is political. There is no utility value to skew all resources to the oldies.
So, policies like intensive health treatments should be considered on utility grounds...age, and so forth.
I saw you posted a view on abortion limits the other day....something I find disgustingly abhorrent..... not abortion per se which is a woman's choice, just right wing moralist men like yourself who think they can speak about it.
If you think 20 weeks is the right limit, go and spend some time at some of the specialist children's units that now deal predominantly with profoundly disabled children born prematurely, many of whom live beyond their infancy, but don't make adolescence, doubly incontinent, blind and unable to eat by themselves. A 20 week limit would result in many more of these children being born.
One could as easily argue that we are gerrymandered by the poor. Taxpayers spend loads of money on these useless eaters, who the politicians pander to. It would surely be better for all of us if they died or emigrated. At any rate, stop them from breeding.
Fortunately, such opinions are no longer prevalent.
Surely though you can see there is a problem if we skew policy to the elderly because they vote? My mum retired at 50, my dad at 55 (both deceased thankfully for the tax payer and the health service though not for me). My wife's father has been retired on a full pension from the age of 52...33 years and counting, the last 10 suffering multiple, chronic health issues. If count the health services that they have used to cope with debilitating illnesses; their children had the benefit of free education; they benefitted from house price growth, the stock market; continuous employment with benefits...
That generation had it all...and then they get universal benefits thrown at them...TV licenses et al....... because they vote whilst people who work see their benefits slashed.
Surely you can see Sean that there is something of a problem somewhere?
On topic I love the fact that Londoners on one hand can vote Ken as an Independent many moons ago, enthusiastically support Boris (twice) and now Sadiq.
London's a wonderfully vibrant, diverse, fair and open minded City. It represents the best of the British. It's a great pity I do not like any of it's football teams,,,,,,
London is a great city because it is multicultural. However, the best football team is in Manchester.
Hasn't Boris guaranteed that nobody will protest outside the Russian embassy by proposing that they should? Surely the Russians should be thanking him..
On topic I love the fact that Londoners on one hand can vote Ken as an Independent many moons ago, enthusiastically support Boris (twice) and now Sadiq.
London's a wonderfully vibrant, diverse, fair and open minded City. It represents the best of the British. It's a great pity I do not like any of it's football teams,,,,,,
London is a great city because it is multicultural. However, the best football team is in Manchester.
Anyhoo, stop w*****g on about whatever is tonight's idee fixe (Commonwealth? Why Remainers are to blame for keeping UK in the EEA [1] and for keeping UK out of the EEA.[2]? Whateva) I have had a *lousy* day...
Von Clausewitz speaks of "friction": how in war everything becomes more difficult. Well he never had to change currency, that's for godsdamn sure. This is how it went:
* Taxi to airport for local Travelex * Discover Travelex offer different rates instore than online. Decide to buy online * Taxi from airport to office * Try to buy currency online. Transaction collapses midstream * A bit of poo comes out * Phone up card company. Transaction was rejected because it was anomalous (I don't normally move that much cash around online). Answer many, many questions. * Go to bank: confirm money was not withdrawn * Try again. This time it goes thru with buyback guarantee. * Arrange to pick up many many USD tomorrow * Patiently print out confirmation, transaction details, proof of ID, get passport. * Check market. Some MPs have rented a pair and have told May to cut the back to the Fifties s**t. Market does not collapse laughing but instead chooses to believe MPs with nuts exist. Well, it's a view. Pound rises after nine solid days of falls. I want my Mum.
You may look forward to me insisting repeatedly that this wasn't meant to make a profit, but was insurance. Yeah that's it, insurance: that'll work...
The buyback guarantee lasts for 45 days. I now have 45 days to find out what the largest Travelex is so I don't turn up only to be told that "actually we don't carry that much cash"
Grumble grumble grumble Dick Dastardly...
[2] Richard_Tyndall's position [1] Casino_Royale's position
Comments
BMW will save us...
https://twitter.com/philipoltermann/status/786282703972868097
So no need to waste any time on negotiations, WTO it is.
http://www.historynet.com/the-fascist-gleam-of-starship-troopers.htm
But, it's almost a tenet of faith. Because, at heart, it's about a political union, not an economic trading block.
Amazing how reactionary the liberal left get when they cant have their own way.
https://twitter.com/faisalislam/status/786294499332988928
Actually, turning it on its head, emigration of *some* within the more depressed areas of the UK (as per historical situation) may actually be quite popular with former Leave voters in the North/Wales.
"there is a great danger that Europe will fall apart"
It does raise the wider issue as to just how many media journalists have become part of the out of touch metropolitan elite and are in for a big shock when no one listens to any of them.
I spoke with a friend yesterday what could we do to change this dynamic, especially as people are living longer, and we are producing less children.
I think the voting age should be set at 16-66; a fifty year window. That's fair...for the people of working age to decide how the country should be governed. A damn good idea I might add.
Personally, I would ban anyone from voting who uses the words "vibrant" or "vibrancy" more than three times in five minutes. It is becoming the new, annoying buzzword(s)
When I grew up, it was quite common to have Labour MPs explaining, on TV, that the People's Democracies were much more democratic than Western "democracies" with their silly voting
-for-who-you-want rubbish. Something to do with guaranteed jobs generally.
Also democracy was only for Westerners. Mention non-western countries that manage to practise multi party democracy and they would start screaming about racism for some reason. Not sure how that worked... but hey....
The problem you and they face is that Dubai, Beijing, Turkey, Abu Dhabi, Shenzhen, South Korea and others have all built, or are building, massive hub airports.
Now, it might all be nationalistic willy-waving, countries wanting the biggest and best to 'prove' their position in the world. Or it might be that they realise that it's the way they need to go to capture traffic and the ensuing benefits.
We've got one of the world's major hubs in Heathrow, but it's far too small. We could choose not to expand it and let it loose major hub status, but that's a really big counter-gamble. Amsterdam, Frankfurt and Paris will be very keen for us to make such a gamble.
Putin is just trying to add to the internet meme of Hillary winning by fraudulent means, to embolden the US tinfoil hat legion.
She didn't seem too bothered about the due process of how information was accessed when it came to Trump's sex comments.
I'm sorry, but it would take a heart of stone not to laugh.
A film of the book of Starship Troopers could be quite interesting - the psychology of being totally alone on a high tech battlefield for instances. In the book, the soldiers fight literally miles apart from their fellows.
@bbcnickrobinson: If Cameron had warned us that we might lose our Marmite Project Fear might just have worked. Brexit - you either love it or hate it pic.twitter.com/wGf5Cab0Tm
Gatwick is about £12 and Manchester about £10 as far as I can see.
The future is almost certainly a mix of the two modes - point to point only works above a certain passenger level. But there will be alot more point to point
I think we should hunt the elderly, like in Logan's Run.
@CasinoRoyale
There is something serious about my point...we are gerrymandered by our oldies. They distort political policy....so even in the future, if a lefty party becomes popular it will have to play so much to the voting pensioners, much like Brown and Blair did, that it will set further precedents which the Tories have to follow. Working age benefits have been axed...pensioners benefits haven't. The only reason to do this is political. There is no utility value to skew all resources to the oldies.
So, policies like intensive health treatments should be considered on utility grounds...age, and so forth.
I saw you posted a view on abortion limits the other day....something I find disgustingly abhorrent..... not abortion per se which is a woman's choice, just right wing moralist men like yourself who think they can speak about it.
If you think 20 weeks is the right limit, go and spend some time at some of the specialist children's units that now deal predominantly with profoundly disabled children born prematurely, many of whom live beyond their infancy, but don't make adolescence, doubly incontinent, blind and unable to eat by themselves. A 20 week limit would result in many more of these children being born.
I am available to discuss the point further at the Baron of Beef at any lunchtime that suits you given 48 hours notice
In this 2010 survey 75% of Brits said they wanted to Emigrate:
http://uk.mobile.reuters.com/article/idUKTRE64944P20100510
"the psychology of being totally alone on a high tech battlefield for instances. In the book, the soldiers fight literally miles apart from their fellows."
A bit like on here...
https://twitter.com/suttonnick/status/786300035113881600
Let them eat sovereignty...
https://youtu.be/lrShn8PeTz8
Your trying to make some sort of moral equivalent between Clinton who actually has morals and Trump who doesn't and failing badly.
Unileaver are just trying it on.
Next.
Expanding or not expanding are both gambles.
I'd love to meet up at the BoB. Most weekend lunchtimes would suit, or a Friday when the little 'un's at nursery. Any other day and the little 'un would have to be dragged along.
There is something serious about my point...we are gerrymandered by our oldies. They distort political policy....so even in the future, if a lefty party becomes popular it will have to play so much to the voting pensioners, much like Brown and Blair did, that it will set further precedents which the Tories have to follow. Working age benefits have been axed...pensioners benefits haven't. The only reason to do this is political. There is no utility value to skew all resources to the oldies.
So, policies like intensive health treatments should be considered on utility grounds...age, and so forth.
I saw you posted a view on abortion limits the other day....something I find disgustingly abhorrent..... not abortion per se which is a woman's choice, just right wing moralist men like yourself who think they can speak about it.
If you think 20 weeks is the right limit, go and spend some time at some of the specialist children's units that now deal predominantly with profoundly disabled children born prematurely, many of whom live beyond their infancy, but don't make adolescence, doubly incontinent, blind and unable to eat by themselves. A 20 week limit would result in many more of these children being born.
One could as easily argue that we are gerrymandered by the poor. Taxpayers spend loads of money on these useless eaters, who the politicians pander to. It would surely be better for all of us if they died or emigrated. At any rate, stop them from breeding.
Fortunately, such opinions are no longer prevalent.
London's a wonderfully vibrant, diverse, fair and open minded City. It represents the best of the British. It's a great pity I do not like any of it's football teams,,,,,,
Chillax. Have some ice cream.
Oh, wait...
NEW THREAD
Incidentally, can I recommend this interview with the first man to land at Heathrow:
The Great War Interviews, 13. Norman Macmillan: www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/p01tdcrk via @bbciplayer
His description of the loniliness of air combat using the high tech of his day is very insightful too.
My wife and I have had many tearful farewells when our son was in New Zealand and to be entirely selfish we are pleased he is happily married in Vancouver which is within 9 hours or so rather than 27 to NZ
In 1990 I sent an airletter from NZ to my mum each week.The world is a much smaller place now.
Fortunately, such opinions are no longer prevalent.
Rubbish re pensioners' benefits; they're contributory anyway so they're not 'unearned'.
Even the US old-age pension is more generous than ours, which was emasculated by Thatcher. The triple lock ensures that the state pension may very slowly recover the value relative to other incomes which it had in 1978.
Fortunately, such opinions are no longer prevalent.
Surely though you can see there is a problem if we skew policy to the elderly because they vote? My mum retired at 50, my dad at 55 (both deceased thankfully for the tax payer and the health service though not for me). My wife's father has been retired on a full pension from the age of 52...33 years and counting, the last 10 suffering multiple, chronic health issues. If count the health services that they have used to cope with debilitating illnesses; their children had the benefit of free education; they benefitted from house price growth, the stock market; continuous employment with benefits...
That generation had it all...and then they get universal benefits thrown at them...TV licenses et al....... because they vote whilst people who work see their benefits slashed.
Surely you can see Sean that there is something of a problem somewhere?
Von Clausewitz speaks of "friction": how in war everything becomes more difficult. Well he never had to change currency, that's for godsdamn sure. This is how it went:
* Taxi to airport for local Travelex
* Discover Travelex offer different rates instore than online. Decide to buy online
* Taxi from airport to office
* Try to buy currency online. Transaction collapses midstream
* A bit of poo comes out
* Phone up card company. Transaction was rejected because it was anomalous (I don't normally move that much cash around online). Answer many, many questions.
* Go to bank: confirm money was not withdrawn
* Try again. This time it goes thru with buyback guarantee.
* Arrange to pick up many many USD tomorrow
* Patiently print out confirmation, transaction details, proof of ID, get passport.
* Check market. Some MPs have rented a pair and have told May to cut the back to the Fifties s**t. Market does not collapse laughing but instead chooses to believe MPs with nuts exist. Well, it's a view. Pound rises after nine solid days of falls. I want my Mum.
You may look forward to me insisting repeatedly that this wasn't meant to make a profit, but was insurance. Yeah that's it, insurance: that'll work...
The buyback guarantee lasts for 45 days. I now have 45 days to find out what the largest Travelex is so I don't turn up only to be told that "actually we don't carry that much cash"
Grumble grumble grumble Dick Dastardly...
[2] Richard_Tyndall's position
[1] Casino_Royale's position
[EDIT: got RT and CR mixed up