I'm sorry, but I entirely disagree. Your approach would last for a news cycle, maybe even a week, before being seen as betrayal by, respectively, a) Tory party activists, who are overwhelmingly leavers, b) Tory party members, who are overwhelmingly in support of Leave, c) Tory party voters, who as a majority support Leave and as a vast majority accept the result of the 23rd June and d) voters in general, who voted for Leave and mostly accept the result as Brexit.
Owning the result and championing it is the only way to:
i) navigate the choppy parliamentary waters - allowing the Govt to brand those troublesome MPs and parties who are questioning the process or the actors as wanting to Leave in name only. ii) convince our negotiating adversaries that we're willing to walk away iii) which in turn might be the only way to secure a decent deal, if a deal is possible iv) which is in turn the best way to go please the majority of the electorate
You're letting your distaste for the result cloud your judgement. You forget that not only are most people now not that bothered that we're leaving, but the majority of voters voted for it and thus want to see it done.
In turn I disagree. The polling evidence suggests an absence of buyers remorse but that Brexit should involve having the cake, eating the cake and the cake costing no more than 50p. A very low price for any cake let alone a magic cake. Leave could promise a magic cake. Leave ceased to exist the morning after. There is no way to be hold Leave to account. Governments are different. Maybe May will deliver the cheap magic cake. In which case she'll be a statesperson and I'll be wrong. If the cake turns out to be expensive and can not be eaten or had then May will now be judged by magic cake standards.
No, May will be judged according to the standards of other bakers. Opposing baker Corbyn only offers a sugar free cake substitute.
I doubt I am the only one to have mentioned it but Ihave not yet read the comments. Pray precisely what has Khan actually done since being elected? I cannot think of anything significant.
What did Boris do in eight years as London mayor except fail in his ultimate aim of become PM?
@faisalislam: Mcfadden: "sight of erstwhile defenders of Parliamentary sovereignty, desperately pleading to give executive a blank check.. will not hold"
@MrHarryCole: PA: Pound "hit its lowest point during a speech by Brexit Secretary David Davis. Shortly after Mr Davis sat down, the pound began to rise."
I think Theresa May is out of her depth on Brexit, What it needs is someone who can smartly navigate the shark infested waters. Someone with a sharp, agile mind; charm melded with a ruthless focus on the end goal. Instead we have an unimaginative, charmless, process-driven administrator.
Anyone would be out of their depth. This isn't just any Brexit. It's an entirely unplanned and accidental Brexit framed by the promises of the postmodern Leave Campaign. In the future everyone will take back control for 15 minutes. In the circumstances the British deep state ( who May personifies ) has done fantastically well so far. ( Criticism of Carney is also unfair. He activated the air bag ) All we had is the necessary devaluation in a relatively orderly manner with a couple of big picture policy choices to give the impression of a plan. None of which means the quicksand's won't consume May in the end. It's just it's implausible to argue anyone else would be doing better. I'm just bemused why she's so categorically taken ownership of the original car crash.
I doubt I am the only one to have mentioned it but Ihave not yet read the comments. Pray precisely what has Khan actually done since being elected? I cannot think of anything significant.
What did Boris do in eight years as London mayor except fail in his ultimate aim of become PM?
I think Theresa May is out of her depth on Brexit, What it needs is someone who can smartly navigate the shark infested waters. Someone with a sharp, agile mind; charm melded with a ruthless focus on the end goal. Instead we have an unimaginative, charmless, process-driven administrator.
I'm sorry, but I entirely disagree. Your approach would last for a news cycle, maybe even a week, before being seen as betrayal by, respectively, a) Tory party activists, who are overwhelmingly leavers, b) Tory party members, who are overwhelmingly in support of Leave, c) Tory party voters, who as a majority support Leave and as a vast majority accept the result of the 23rd June and d) voters in general, who voted for Leave and mostly accept the result as Brexit.
Owning the result and championing it is the only way to:
i) navigate the choppy parliamentary waters - allowing the Govt to brand those troublesome MPs and parties who are questioning the process or the actors as wanting to Leave in name only. ii) convince our negotiating adversaries that we're willing to walk away iii) which in turn might be the only way to secure a decent deal, if a deal is possible iv) which is in turn the best way to go please the majority of the electorate
You're letting your distaste for the result cloud your judgement. You forget that not only are most people now not that bothered that we're leaving, but the majority of voters voted for it and thus want to see it done.
In turn I disagree. The polling evidence suggests an absence of buyers remorse but that Brexit should involve having the cake, eating the cake and the cake costing no more than 50p. A very low price for any cake let alone a magic cake. Leave could promise a magic cake. Leave ceased to exist the morning after. There is no way to be hold Leave to account. Governments are different. Maybe May will deliver the cheap magic cake. In which case she'll be a statesperson and I'll be wrong. If the cake turns out to be expensive and can not be eaten or had then May will now be judged by magic cake standards.
No, May will be judged according to the standards of other bakers. Opposing baker Corbyn only offers a sugar free cake substitute.
Yes. She can't lose to Corbyn. She can only lose to the 1922 Committee.
As I said yesterday, a lot of 360 degree turns will occur since Friday.
Things couldn't be going more prefectly for the Dems. These 360 Republicans have managed to alienate a fraction of the NeverTrump and a fraction of the TrueTrump believers. If they turn into DNVs then we could be looking at a wave.
It's almost like Clinton read my pre debate advice.
I think Theresa May is out of her depth on Brexit, What it needs is someone who can smartly navigate the shark infested waters. Someone with a sharp, agile mind; charm melded with a ruthless focus on the end goal. Instead we have an unimaginative, charmless, process-driven administrator.
I don't think Mandelson would do it though.
We need a government of national unity to deal with Brexit.
Ken Clarke as PM
George Osborne as Chancellor
The Lord Mandelson as Brexit & International Trade Secretary
Boris Johnson can't complain about not getting the credit for the night tube. He was entirely happy to have the bikes (inherited from Ken Livingstone) named after him.
Correct. And so mismanaged was Boris' announcement on the Night Tube (hopelessly premature, poorly organised, uncollegiate) that he deserved to lose the credit to Sadiq.
It was an easy win of perception for Khan but such is politics –blundering Boris was the architect of his own demise on that particular policy I am afraid.
I think Theresa May is out of her depth on Brexit, What it needs is someone who can smartly navigate the shark infested waters. Someone with a sharp, agile mind; charm melded with a ruthless focus on the end goal. Instead we have an unimaginative, charmless, process-driven administrator.
I don't think Mandelson would do it though.
We need a government of national unity to deal with Brexit.
Ken Clarke as PM
George Osborne as Chancellor
The Lord Mandelson as Brexit & International Trade Secretary
I think Theresa May is out of her depth on Brexit, What it needs is someone who can smartly navigate the shark infested waters. Someone with a sharp, agile mind; charm melded with a ruthless focus on the end goal. Instead we have an unimaginative, charmless, process-driven administrator.
I don't think Mandelson would do it though.
We need a government of national unity to deal with Brexit.
Ken Clarke as PM
George Osborne as Chancellor
The Lord Mandelson as Brexit & International Trade Secretary
Mr. Submarine, Cameron had every opportunity (and duty) to do some of the groundwork before the vote.
Groundwork for what? Some Leavers wanted EEA no customs union, some customs union only, some full WTO, and some full free trade with no external tariffs. What exact ground work would you have wanted and trusted since you clearly didn't trust the modelling work the treasury did on the different options?
I think Theresa May is out of her depth on Brexit, What it needs is someone who can smartly navigate the shark infested waters. Someone with a sharp, agile mind; charm melded with a ruthless focus on the end goal. Instead we have an unimaginative, charmless, process-driven administrator.
I don't think Mandelson would do it though.
We need a government of national unity to deal with Brexit.
Ken Clarke as PM
George Osborne as Chancellor
The Lord Mandelson as Brexit & International Trade Secretary
I think Theresa May is out of her depth on Brexit, What it needs is someone who can smartly navigate the shark infested waters. Someone with a sharp, agile mind; charm melded with a ruthless focus on the end goal. Instead we have an unimaginative, charmless, process-driven administrator.
I don't think Mandelson would do it though.
We need a government of national unity to deal with Brexit.
Ken Clarke as PM
George Osborne as Chancellor
The Lord Mandelson as Brexit & International Trade Secretary
I think Theresa May is out of her depth on Brexit, What it needs is someone who can smartly navigate the shark infested waters. Someone with a sharp, agile mind; charm melded with a ruthless focus on the end goal. Instead we have an unimaginative, charmless, process-driven administrator.
I don't think Mandelson would do it though.
We need a government of national unity to deal with Brexit.
Ken Clarke as PM
George Osborne as Chancellor
The Lord Mandelson as Brexit & International Trade Secretary
Hilary Benn as Foreign Secretary
There are two potential Brexit majorities in the current HoC. One is a blocking majority on leaving the Single Market. The other is for complete immigration control. Putting either together will involve lots of cross party and probably contra whip voting. The only alternative is an early election.
I think Theresa May is out of her depth on Brexit, What it needs is someone who can smartly navigate the shark infested waters. Someone with a sharp, agile mind; charm melded with a ruthless focus on the end goal. Instead we have an unimaginative, charmless, process-driven administrator.
I don't think Mandelson would do it though.
We need a government of national unity to deal with Brexit.
Ken Clarke as PM
George Osborne as Chancellor
The Lord Mandelson as Brexit & International Trade Secretary
I think Theresa May is out of her depth on Brexit, What it needs is someone who can smartly navigate the shark infested waters. Someone with a sharp, agile mind; charm melded with a ruthless focus on the end goal. Instead we have an unimaginative, charmless, process-driven administrator.
I don't think Mandelson would do it though.
Nor do I. Too busy with his duties as Chair of the shit political failure society. Sudden influx of new members.
I doubt I am the only one to have mentioned it but Ihave not yet read the comments. Pray precisely what has Khan actually done since being elected? I cannot think of anything significant.
Give the guy a chance? He's had less than 5 months, including the summer.
If you had read the head e r you would have realized it was in response to OGH saying voters thought he was doing well ... g having done approx Zippo so far.
I think Theresa May is out of her depth on Brexit, What it needs is someone who can smartly navigate the shark infested waters. Someone with a sharp, agile mind; charm melded with a ruthless focus on the end goal. Instead we have an unimaginative, charmless, process-driven administrator.
I don't think Mandelson would do it though.
We need a government of national unity to deal with Brexit.
Ken Clarke as PM
George Osborne as Chancellor
The Lord Mandelson as Brexit & International Trade Secretary
Hilary Benn as Foreign Secretary
There are two potential Brexit majorities in the current HoC. One is a blocking majority on leaving the Single Market. The other is for complete immigration control. Putting either together will involve lots of cross party and probably contra whip voting. The only alternative is an early election.
We're leaving the EU and the single market, there should be no blocking or delaying of that. The people have spoken, the bastards
What there should be is a comprehensive debate on what that all means, so for posterity we know who the guilty men and women are if Brexit turns out to be an economic disaster, and plus we get the very best trying to get a good deal for the post Brexit world to ensure we get a good deal.
I think Theresa May is out of her depth on Brexit, What it needs is someone who can smartly navigate the shark infested waters. Someone with a sharp, agile mind; charm melded with a ruthless focus on the end goal. Instead we have an unimaginative, charmless, process-driven administrator.
I don't think Mandelson would do it though.
We need a government of national unity to deal with Brexit.
Ken Clarke as PM
George Osborne as Chancellor
The Lord Mandelson as Brexit & International Trade Secretary
Hilary Benn as Foreign Secretary
we could get them nice offices in France
Vichy looks good
Tsk, are you calling Remainers collaborators?
certainly not.
I'm calling them French
That's defamatory.
at least collaborators has a sense of self respect
I doubt I am the only one to have mentioned it but Ihave not yet read the comments. Pray precisely what has Khan actually done since being elected? I cannot think of anything significant.
Give the guy a chance? He's had less than 5 months, including the summer.
If you had read the head e r you would have realized it was in response to OGH saying voters thought he was doing well ... g having done approx Zippo so far.
Except deliver the small matter of the Night Tube – yes it was Boris's project but so badly mismanaged was his launch it was eventually actually delivered under Sadiq. And the new mayor has won the credit of the public for bringing it forward.
I think Theresa May is out of her depth on Brexit, What it needs is someone who can smartly navigate the shark infested waters. Someone with a sharp, agile mind; charm melded with a ruthless focus on the end goal. Instead we have an unimaginative, charmless, process-driven administrator.
I don't think Mandelson would do it though.
We need a government of national unity to deal with Brexit.
Ken Clarke as PM
George Osborne as Chancellor
The Lord Mandelson as Brexit & International Trade Secretary
Hilary Benn as Foreign Secretary
There are two potential Brexit majorities in the current HoC. One is a blocking majority on leaving the Single Market. The other is for complete immigration control. Putting either together will involve lots of cross party and probably contra whip voting. The only alternative is an early election.
We're leaving the EU and the single market, there should be no blocking or delaying of that. The people have spoken, the bastards
What there should be is a comprehensive debate on what that all means, so for posterity we know who the guilty men and women are if Brexit turns out to be an economic disaster, and plus we get the very best trying to get a good deal for the post Brexit world to ensure we get a good deal.
how the hell will we get a good deal if Osbornes involved ? The pied piper of Hinckley is just a faecal Midas.
I doubt I am the only one to have mentioned it but Ihave not yet read the comments. Pray precisely what has Khan actually done since being elected? I cannot think of anything significant.
Give the guy a chance? He's had less than 5 months, including the summer.
If you had read the head e r you would have realized it was in response to OGH saying voters thought he was doing well ... g having done approx Zippo so far.
Except deliver the small matter of the Night Tube – yes it was Boris's project but so badly mismanaged was his launch it was eventually actually delivered under Sadiq. And the new mayor has won the credit of the public for bringing it forward.
out here in bumpkin land we still all think Sadiq is a wanker who's done nothing for us.
If Parliament want to play silly b's and try and force a substantive vote on Brexit then all May hast to do is link it to a vote of no confidence and win the subsequent GE by a land slide
I think Theresa May is out of her depth on Brexit, What it needs is someone who can smartly navigate the shark infested waters. Someone with a sharp, agile mind; charm melded with a ruthless focus on the end goal. Instead we have an unimaginative, charmless, process-driven administrator.
I don't think Mandelson would do it though.
We need a government of national unity to deal with Brexit.
Ken Clarke as PM
George Osborne as Chancellor
The Lord Mandelson as Brexit & International Trade Secretary
Hilary Benn as Foreign Secretary
There are two potential Brexit majorities in the current HoC. One is a blocking majority on leaving the Single Market. The other is for complete immigration control. Putting either together will involve lots of cross party and probably contra whip voting. The only alternative is an early election.
We're leaving the EU and the single market, there should be no blocking or delaying of that. The people have spoken, the bastards
What there should be is a comprehensive debate on what that all means, so for posterity we know who the guilty men and women are if Brexit turns out to be an economic disaster, and plus we get the very best trying to get a good deal for the post Brexit world to ensure we get a good deal.
I'm sympathetic to lots of that. Certainly the government is doing everything in it's power to signal we're leaving the Single Market other than selling the words " we're leaving the Single Market ". I can't see the debate going much further until they choose or are forced to say that out loud. The danger is our options collapse one by one and we are left with the Brexit that's left not a Brexit we actively choose. As for the ' all the talents ' issue well in an ideal world yes. But this is politics. So many people are psychologically and politically invested in it being either a triumph or a disaster. Who will selflessly do the grind ? Only Hammond seems to be playing this role as far as I can see. And he's already engulfed in a briefing war to the death with the Three Brexiteers.
I doubt I am the only one to have mentioned it but Ihave not yet read the comments. Pray precisely what has Khan actually done since being elected? I cannot think of anything significant.
Give the guy a chance? He's had less than 5 months, including the summer.
If you had read the head e r you would have realized it was in response to OGH saying voters thought he was doing well ... g having done approx Zippo so far.
Except deliver the small matter of the Night Tube – yes it was Boris's project but so badly mismanaged was his launch it was eventually actually delivered under Sadiq. And the new mayor has won the credit of the public for bringing it forward.
out here in bumpkin land we still all think Sadiq is a wanker who's done nothing for us.
Public credit = zero
Why would he do anything for you, given that he is mayor of London?
Who will selflessly do the grind ? Only Hammond seems to be playing this role as far as I can see. And he's already engulfed in a briefing war to the death with the Three Brexiteers.
Of the people Tezza did not needlessly sack, Hammond is our best hope, and if he can't beat the 3 Brexiteers then we really are up the suwanee...
I doubt I am the only one to have mentioned it but Ihave not yet read the comments. Pray precisely what has Khan actually done since being elected? I cannot think of anything significant.
Give the guy a chance? He's had less than 5 months, including the summer.
If you had read the head e r you would have realized it was in response to OGH saying voters thought he was doing well ... g having done approx Zippo so far.
Except deliver the small matter of the Night Tube – yes it was Boris's project but so badly mismanaged was his launch it was eventually actually delivered under Sadiq. And the new mayor has won the credit of the public for bringing it forward.
out here in bumpkin land we still all think Sadiq is a wanker who's done nothing for us.
Public credit = zero
Why would he do anything for you, given that he is mayor of London?
I doubt I am the only one to have mentioned it but Ihave not yet read the comments. Pray precisely what has Khan actually done since being elected? I cannot think of anything significant.
Give the guy a chance? He's had less than 5 months, including the summer.
If you had read the head e r you would have realized it was in response to OGH saying voters thought he was doing well ... g having done approx Zippo so far.
Except deliver the small matter of the Night Tube – yes it was Boris's project but so badly mismanaged was his launch it was eventually actually delivered under Sadiq. And the new mayor has won the credit of the public for bringing it forward.
Deliver it.. it was only delayed.. what input did he actually hsve??
I think Theresa May is out of her depth on Brexit, What it needs is someone who can smartly navigate the shark infested waters. Someone with a sharp, agile mind; charm melded with a ruthless focus on the end goal. Instead we have an unimaginative, charmless, process-driven administrator.
I don't think Mandelson would do it though.
We need a government of national unity to deal with Brexit.
Ken Clarke as PM
George Osborne as Chancellor
The Lord Mandelson as Brexit & International Trade Secretary
I doubt I am the only one to have mentioned it but Ihave not yet read the comments. Pray precisely what has Khan actually done since being elected? I cannot think of anything significant.
Give the guy a chance? He's had less than 5 months, including the summer.
If you had read the head e r you would have realized it was in response to OGH saying voters thought he was doing well ... g having done approx Zippo so far.
Masterly inactivity accounts for Mrs May's good marks too.
I see this Stephen Phillips is the MP for Sleaford and North Hykeham. I'm sure his constituents aren't too bothered about immigration. I'm also sure he told the absolute truth during the selection process to become the Tory candidate.
In the land of the blind, the one-eyed man etc......
Khan hasn't said or done so far anything silly as Mayor (though he was very silly to nominate Corbyn). So obviously he looks like a Titan compared to the Labour front bench. Plus he's no longer an MP so can avoid for now all the shenanigans that have afflicted the PLP over the last year.
But - when it comes to it - will any of this be an asset to the Labour electorate, which very much does not consist of Tories and Lib Dems and, increasingly, doesn't even consist of Labour people?
'Except deliver the small matter of the Night Tube – yes it was Boris's project but so badly mismanaged was his launch it was eventually actually delivered under Sadiq.'
The RMT union that was blocking it recommended acceptance of pay & conditions in February this year.
I am simultaneously android delighted and annoyed by this.
Delighted because it is an excellent description of what was happening. Pissed of because I was in the middle of requesting the data to analyse myself to find this out.
The way the Black vote jumped in such a huge digital step up and down had made me very suspicious of the weighting and number if African Americans in the poll.
Ken Clarke Anna Soubry Dominic Grieve Claire Perry Chris Philp Nicky Morgan Stephen Phillips
If it came to a vote, that leaves a working majority of just 2.
Yes I know, Philips voted to Leave, and I haven't factored in the DUP -- but it's tight all the same.
Nicholas Soames, George Osborne and others too. People will be calculating when to stand up and speak out. There will be Labour MPs going the other way, of course. And at some stage Corbyn and McDonnell are going to want to sabotage the whole Labour effort.
@JoannaPartridge: I've been told #Tesco isn't the only major retailer which has been approached by #Unilever, who are demanding 10% price rises across board
@JoannaPartridge: I've been told #Tesco isn't the only major retailer which has been approached by #Unilever, who are demanding 10% price rises across board
Is there a current price anywhere for the UK NOT to leave the EU? It's got to be a value bet now. If Jeremy Corbyn is landing blows over Brexit, it's dead in the water.
Comments
Indeed...
Correlation <> Causation
But you knew that
I'd have to sedate Mike first, who is clearly a major fan of Mr Milne, before I publish that thread
It's almost like Clinton read my pre debate advice.
Ken Clarke as PM
George Osborne as Chancellor
The Lord Mandelson as Brexit & International Trade Secretary
Hilary Benn as Foreign Secretary
Reasons Im glad we are leaving #94.0
Germany pushes to force the EU to BAN petrol and diesel cars by 2030
http://dailym.ai/2efSQIs
It was an easy win of perception for Khan but such is politics –blundering Boris was the architect of his own demise on that particular policy I am afraid.
Vichy looks good
they've made such a success of diesel it was inevitable
Can I suggest we add: "It would be hilarious if [insert something unlikely and awful here]" happened" is added to the PB Verboten list?
I'm calling them French
What there should be is a comprehensive debate on what that all means, so for posterity we know who the guilty men and women are if Brexit turns out to be an economic disaster, and plus we get the very best trying to get a good deal for the post Brexit world to ensure we get a good deal.
Public credit = zero
first he puts Marianne in a burka now he says he'll vote Sarkozy in the second round
http://www.lefigaro.fr/politique/le-scan/2016/10/11/25001-20161011ARTFIG00389-2017-hollande-pret-a-voter-pour-sarkozy-au-second-tour-face-a-le-pen.php
http://content.tfl.gov.uk/london-rail-and-tube-services-map.pdf
I guess it rubbed off
https://twitter.com/jaymplant/status/786164542728507392
It says so on www.tinfoiltrumper.org
this explains the ridiculous la times poll minority shares
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-37634077
Lest we forget, Andy Burnham had to apologise for smearing both David Davis & Lady Chakrabati
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2008/jun/19/andyburnham.daviddavis
Khan hasn't said or done so far anything silly as Mayor (though he was very silly to nominate Corbyn). So obviously he looks like a Titan compared to the Labour front bench. Plus he's no longer an MP so can avoid for now all the shenanigans that have afflicted the PLP over the last year.
But - when it comes to it - will any of this be an asset to the Labour electorate, which very much does not consist of Tories and Lib Dems and, increasingly, doesn't even consist of Labour people?
Why did Clinton surge in the LAT/USC poll today? One 19 year old black Trump supporter dropped out of the sample http://www.nytimes.com/2016/10/13/upshot/how-one-19-year-old-illinois-man-is-distorting-national-polling-averages.html?_r=0
Ive already seen 610 post this, but it is so ridiculous that I'm posting it again.
just watching Ed Cleggy and Claire Perry trying to look relevant
'Except deliver the small matter of the Night Tube – yes it was Boris's project but so badly mismanaged was his launch it was eventually actually delivered under Sadiq.'
The RMT union that was blocking it recommended acceptance of pay & conditions in February this year.
Khan did nothing. .
Clinton 41 .. Trump 46
http://www.monmouth.edu/polling-institute/reports/MonmouthPoll_MO_101216/
Delighted because it is an excellent description of what was happening. Pissed of because I was in the middle of requesting the data to analyse myself to find this out.
The way the Black vote jumped in such a huge digital step up and down had made me very suspicious of the weighting and number if African Americans in the poll.
Ken Clarke
Anna Soubry
Dominic Grieve
Claire Perry
Chris Philp
Nicky Morgan
Stephen Phillips
If it came to a vote, that leaves a working majority of just 2.
Yes I know, Philips voted to Leave, and I haven't factored in the DUP -- but it's tight all the same.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/10/12/number-of-eu-workers-coming-to-britain-to-fall-sharply-before-br/
That's what you wanted, right? Parliamentary Sovereignty.
You won. Suck it up...
LEAVE 52%
REMAIN 48%
@PaulBrandITV: Brexit just got real. No more Hellmans Mayo or Marmite in Tesco! twitter.com/itvjoel/status…
@PaulBrandITV: Or online at least - still in stores
few people go to a supermarket just for one product