I'm warming to the Euro, mainly because it has opened up the markets of its members, making them much more export oriented recently, compared with the UK, for example. UK growth in recent years compares with the Eurozone average. There is a wide divergence within the Eurozone. The best performing countries like Germany have grown significantly more than we have.
Is there any meaningful constituency - the arch-federalists, residing mainly within the EU institutions, notwithstanding - which views the Euro as a success?
You're talking to one, remember that when discussing things with some of our more motivated Remoaners.
Apparently they have tails and commune with Satan, so you must assume the absolute worst when talking to them, because that's the sensible approach
There are two main Leaver shibboleths that will be seen for what they are over time: firstly that the EU is a protectionist block that held back our free trading ways, and secondly that the Euro is a disastrous failure.
The Euro is a failure and the EU is protectionist. Neither of those is controversial.
It’s probably too early to tell with the Euro.
Not really. It's already shown it's a failure. Greece, Italy, France and probably Germany are not suited to it. Countries with such disparate economic development and social development should not be in a currency zone together, not without being in a fiscal transfer union to give poorer areas the gains made in richer ones as we do within the UK.
There are two main Leaver shibboleths that will be seen for what they are over time: firstly that the EU is a protectionist block that held back our free trading ways, and secondly that the Euro is a disastrous failure.
The Euro is a failure and the EU is protectionist. Neither of those is controversial.
There are two main Leaver shibboleths that will be seen for what they are over time: firstly that the EU is a protectionist block that held back our free trading ways, and secondly that the Euro is a disastrous failure.
The Euro is a failure and the EU is protectionist. Neither of those is controversial.
It’s probably too early to tell with the Euro.
Not really. It's already shown it's a failure. Greece, Italy, France and probably Germany are not suited to it. Countries with such disparate economic development and social development should not be in a currency zone together, not without being in a fiscal transfer union to give poorer areas the gains made in richer ones as we do within the UK.
From a federalists point of view surely that shortcoming is a feature not a bug, as it will lead to calls for further integration.
I'm warming to the Euro, mainly because it has opened up the markets of its members, making them much more export oriented recently, compared with the UK, for example. UK growth in recent years compares with the Eurozone average. There is a wide divergence within the Eurozone. The best performing countries like Germany have grown significantly more than we have.
You are a bit thick aren't you, Germany are reaping gains from a weak currency that would not be available to them with their own currency.
There are two main Leaver shibboleths that will be seen for what they are over time: firstly that the EU is a protectionist block that held back our free trading ways, and secondly that the Euro is a disastrous failure.
The Euro is a failure and the EU is protectionist. Neither of those is controversial.
It’s probably too early to tell with the Euro.
Not really. It's already shown it's a failure. Greece, Italy, France and probably Germany are not suited to it. Countries with such disparate economic development and social development should not be in a currency zone together, not without being in a fiscal transfer union to give poorer areas the gains made in richer ones as we do within the UK.
From a federalists point of view surely that shortcoming is a feature not a bug, as it will lead to calls for further integration.
Yes and when Germany are asked to hand over €300bn per year to spend on welfare, social and infrastructure programmes in the east and south I'm sure it will go down very well, AfD politicians are already salivating.
I'm warming to the Euro, mainly because it has opened up the markets of its members, making them much more export oriented recently, compared with the UK, for example. UK growth in recent years compares with the Eurozone average. There is a wide divergence within the Eurozone. The best performing countries like Germany have grown significantly more than we have.
Hardly a shocker since they are essentially doing it at the expense of the mediterranean countries (notably the Greeks). The Euro is massively undervalued for German, and overvalued for club med.
If DB blows up in an almighty mess it might slightly take the shine off.
I'm warming to the Euro, mainly because it has opened up the markets of its members, making them much more export oriented recently, compared with the UK, for example. UK growth in recent years compares with the Eurozone average. There is a wide divergence within the Eurozone. The best performing countries like Germany have grown significantly more than we have.
Hardly a shocker since they are essentially doing it at the expense of the mediterranean countries (notably the Greeks). The Euro is massively undervalued for German, and overvalued for club med.
If DB blows up in an almighty mess it might slightly take the shine off.
DB are suffering from an unsuitable interest rate environment more than anything else. The core bank just doesn't make any money, their issues with derivatives are without a doubt serious, but more than that they just don't make any money. The Bundesbank would not have held interest rates so low for so long or ever instituted negative deposit rates.
Is there any meaningful constituency - the arch-federalists, residing mainly within the EU institutions, notwithstanding - which views the Euro as a success?
Altough I assume many people don't like it, the fact that no government that uses the Euro has even *tried* to get rid of it (don't forget Tsipras fired Varoufakis immediately when it became public he was trying to establish a shadow currency) makes me think that *they* consider it better than the alternatives.
Unstupid point: a lot of the anglophone discussion about the EU is between people who speak English. It sounds obvious, but we routinely neglect the views of the rest of the planet, who may have a different opinion. It's like the back of your head: a blind spot so big you don't notice it's there.
Is there any meaningful constituency - the arch-federalists, residing mainly within the EU institutions, notwithstanding - which views the Euro as a success?
Altough I assume many people don't like it, the fact that no government that uses the Euro has even *tried* to get rid of it (don't forget Tsipras fired Varoufakis immediately when it became public he was trying to establish a shadow currency) makes me think that *they* consider it better than the alternatives.
Unstupid point: a lot of the anglophone discussion about the EU is between people who speak English. It sounds obvious, but we routinely neglect the views of the rest of the planet, who may have a different opinion. It's like the back of your head: a blind spot so big you don't notice it's there.
There are two main Leaver shibboleths that will be seen for what they are over time: firstly that the EU is a protectionist block that held back our free trading ways, and secondly that the Euro is a disastrous failure.
The Euro is a failure and the EU is protectionist. Neither of those is controversial.
Ain't groupthink a bitch.
The fact that you believe the Euro is a success shows how very blinkered your view of the EU is. Federalists like you are so very blind.
BTW and totally off topic, can it really be true that Big Fat Stan is set to receive around £1 million compesation from the F.A. after just two months work (if you can call overseeing one England game "work") and having supposedly resigned in disgrace .... words fail me!
I don't know what sort of contracts are drawn up these days, but in my day 'Gross Misconduct' was 'here's a bin-bag for your stuff (carefully checked) and the door is over there'.......
With gross misconduct don't you still get a payment in lieu of notice (but nothing for loss of position)?
No you don't. If you are guilty of gross misconduct you have repudiated the contract so there is no obligation on the employer to pay you. However, rather than risk the employee suing for unfair dismissal many employers will go for a settlement agreement (used to be called compromise agreement) rather than dismissing for gross misconduct. This involves paying the employee a sum of money in return for the employee agreeing to give up their right to sue the employer.
In some professions you can even lose your already earned pension entitlement, which is the severest penalty available for any worker.
I think Big Sam went "by mutual consent" rather than gross misconduct.
No one in their right mind should take the England Manager job. It is a hospital pass.
very lucrative though, 7 weeks , and £1 million+ in the hip pocket , not to be knocked for a few days work. A bit of training , 90 minutes of actual work , som eforeign travel and 5* hotels etc , whats not to like about it.
Other countries seeking trade deals with the UK post Brexit will not be doing with the best interests of the UK in their minds . They will be seeking to take advantage of a weakened isolated little island nation which has cut itself off from its near neighbours .
The UK, viewed in the round, is one of the dozen best countries to live in the world, and I see no reason for that to change.
And with BREXIT we'll become poorer so less attractive to migrants.
I'm pretty confident that ten years from now, the UK will have a higher standard of living than it does today (barring a war). The question is how much higher?
If the UK does do economically well post-Brexit, while the EU stagnates further, at what point would those who voted Remain change their minds?
What a silly question - If the UK "appears" to be doing better than the EU after Brexit this is because
1) You are not looking at the right numbers. UK has become a dog-eat-dog super-unequal hellhole. 2) The WWC (Nazi Scum that they are) have savagely destroyed Europe out of their (usual) racist, homophobic, isolationist, little englander, failed state, misogynistic, cannibalistic beliefs and behaviours. 3) UK and EU would have been even richer together.
Didn't you get the memo?
It is also very possible that the EU will do better economically. At what point would the Leavers change their minds?
There are two main Leaver shibboleths that will be seen for what they are over time: firstly that the EU is a protectionist block that held back our free trading ways, and secondly that the Euro is a disastrous failure.
Well, I think you're wrong on the Euro.
But the one you missed was the idea that we are weighed down in EU regulation. I think there's very little evidence of that, especially given our opt-outs.
I would wait till we are adfrift on our own, lots of wishful thinking re Empire days etc, UK will be continuing its decline but at a more rapid pace. We have little to sell and once the crooked bankers decamp there will be nothing.
Is there any meaningful constituency - the arch-federalists, residing mainly within the EU institutions, notwithstanding - which views the Euro as a success?
Altough I assume many people don't like it, the fact that no government that uses the Euro has even *tried* to get rid of it (don't forget Tsipras fired Varoufakis immediately when it became public he was trying to establish a shadow currency) makes me think that *they* consider it better than the alternatives.
Unstupid point: a lot of the anglophone discussion about the EU is between people who speak English. It sounds obvious, but we routinely neglect the views of the rest of the planet, who may have a different opinion. It's like the back of your head: a blind spot so big you don't notice it's there.
Is there any meaningful constituency - the arch-federalists, residing mainly within the EU institutions, notwithstanding - which views the Euro as a success?
Altough I assume many people don't like it, the fact that no government that uses the Euro has even *tried* to get rid of it (don't forget Tsipras fired Varoufakis immediately when it became public he was trying to establish a shadow currency) makes me think that *they* consider it better than the alternatives.
Unstupid point: a lot of the anglophone discussion about the EU is between people who speak English. It sounds obvious, but we routinely neglect the views of the rest of the planet, who may have a different opinion. It's like the back of your head: a blind spot so big you don't notice it's there.
Indeed even at the heart of the Greek crisis there was very little support for a return to the Drachma in Greece.
Serial devaluation is not really a sign of economic success.
There are two main Leaver shibboleths that will be seen for what they are over time: firstly that the EU is a protectionist block that held back our free trading ways, and secondly that the Euro is a disastrous failure.
The Euro is a failure and the EU is protectionist. Neither of those is controversial.
It’s probably too early to tell with the Euro.
Not really. It's already shown it's a failure. Greece, Italy, France and probably Germany are not suited to it. Countries with such disparate economic development and social development should not be in a currency zone together, not without being in a fiscal transfer union to give poorer areas the gains made in richer ones as we do within the UK.
LOL apart from Greece I would rather be in any of those countries than the UK. Delusion.
Other countries seeking trade deals with the UK post Brexit will not be doing with the best interests of the UK in their minds . They will be seeking to take advantage of a weakened isolated little island nation which has cut itself off from its near neighbours .
The UK, viewed in the round, is one of the dozen best countries to live in the world, and I see no reason for that to change.
And with BREXIT we'll become poorer so less attractive to migrants.
I'm pretty confident that ten years from now, the UK will have a higher standard of living than it does today (barring a war). The question is how much higher?
If the UK does do economically well post-Brexit, while the EU stagnates further, at what point would those who voted Remain change their minds?
What a silly question - If the UK "appears" to be doing better than the EU after Brexit this is because
1) You are not looking at the right numbers. UK has become a dog-eat-dog super-unequal hellhole. 2) The WWC (Nazi Scum that they are) have savagely destroyed Europe out of their (usual) racist, homophobic, isolationist, little englander, failed state, misogynistic, cannibalistic beliefs and behaviours. 3) UK and EU would have been even richer together.
Didn't you get the memo?
It is also very possible that the EU will do better economically. At what point would the Leavers change their minds?
There are two main Leaver shibboleths that will be seen for what they are over time: firstly that the EU is a protectionist block that held back our free trading ways, and secondly that the Euro is a disastrous failure.
Well, I think you're wrong on the Euro.
But the one you missed was the idea that we are weighed down in EU regulation. I think there's very little evidence of that, especially given our opt-outs.
I would wait till we are adfrift on our own, lots of wishful thinking re Empire days etc, UK will be continuing its decline but at a more rapid pace. We have little to sell and once the crooked bankers decamp there will be nothing.
With “Hannity” leading the way, Fox News Channel had seven of the Top 10 programs on cable news for the month of September. “The O’Reilly Factor” follows “Hannity” and “The Kelly File,” giving Fox News’ primetime lineup a sweep of the top three.
MSNBC’s “The Rachel Maddow Show” and Fox News’ “Special Report with Bret Baier” round out the top five. CNN’s most-watched show among the key demo was “CNN Tonight with Don Lemon,” which averaged 339,000 demo viewers to finish ninth overall.
Other countries seeking trade deals with the UK post Brexit will not be doing with the best interests of the UK in their minds . They will be seeking to take advantage of a weakened isolated little island nation which has cut itself off from its near neighbours .
And with BREXIT we'll become poorer so less attractive to migrants.
er?
o economically well post-Brexit, while the EU stagnates further, at what point would those who voted Remain change their minds?
What a silly question - If the UK "appears" to be doing better than the EU after Brexit this is because
1) You are not looking at the right numbers. UK has become a dog-eat-dog super-unequal hellhole. 2) The WWC (Nazi Scum that they are) have savagely destroyed Europe out of their (usual) racist, homophobic, isolationist, little englander, failed state, misogynistic, cannibalistic beliefs and behaviours. 3) UK and EU would have been even richer together.
Didn't you get the memo?
It is also very possible that the EU will do better economically. At what point would the Leavers change their minds?
There are two main Leaver shibboleths that will be seen for what they are over time: firstly that the EU is a protectionist block that held back our free trading ways, and secondly that the Euro is a disastrous failure.
Well, I think you're wrong on the Euro.
But the one you missed was the idea that we are weighed down in EU regulation. I think there's very little evidence of that, especially given our opt-outs.
I would wait till we are adfrift on our own, lots of wishful thinking re Empire days etc, UK will be continuing its decline but at a more rapid pace. We have little to sell and once the crooked bankers decamp there will be nothing.
Errr... aren't you forgetting turnips??
Rob,We will be keeping them for ourselves, you have had all our oil , you will not get the turnips so easily.
Other countries seeking trade deals with the UK post Brexit will not be doing with the best interests of the UK in their minds . They will be seeking to take advantage of a weakened isolated little island nation which has cut itself off from its near neighbours .
And with BREXIT we'll become poorer so less attractive to migrants.
er?
o economically well post-Brexit, while the EU stagnates further, at what point would those who voted Remain change their minds?
What a silly question - If the UK "appears" to be doing better than the EU after Brexit this is because
1) You are not looking at the right numbers. UK has become a dog-eat-dog super-unequal hellhole. 2) The WWC (Nazi Scum that they are) have savagely destroyed Europe out of their (usual) racist, homophobic, isolationist, little englander, failed state, misogynistic, cannibalistic beliefs and behaviours. 3) UK and EU would have been even richer together.
Didn't you get the memo?
It is also very possible that the EU will do better economically. At what point would the Leavers change their minds?
There are two main Leaver shibboleths that will be seen for what they are over time: firstly that the EU is a protectionist block that held back our free trading ways, and secondly that the Euro is a disastrous failure.
Well, I think you're wrong on the Euro.
But the one you missed was the idea that we are weighed down in EU regulation. I think there's very little evidence of that, especially given our opt-outs.
I would wait till we are adfrift on our own, lots of wishful thinking re Empire days etc, UK will be continuing its decline but at a more rapid pace. We have little to sell and once the crooked bankers decamp there will be nothing.
Errr... aren't you forgetting turnips??
Rob,We will be keeping them for ourselves, you have had all our oil , you will not get the turnips so easily.
I swear there was a famous quote on that... "They can take our oil, but they'll never take our turnips!"...... something like that
With “Hannity” leading the way, Fox News Channel had seven of the Top 10 programs on cable news for the month of September. “The O’Reilly Factor” follows “Hannity” and “The Kelly File,” giving Fox News’ primetime lineup a sweep of the top three.
MSNBC’s “The Rachel Maddow Show” and Fox News’ “Special Report with Bret Baier” round out the top five. CNN’s most-watched show among the key demo was “CNN Tonight with Don Lemon,” which averaged 339,000 demo viewers to finish ninth overall.
Most watched... 500k. Out of a population of 300m, that's a bit underwhelming.
Other countries seeking trade deals with the UK post Brexit will not be doing with the best interests of the UK in their minds . They will be seeking to take advantage of a weakened isolated little island nation which has cut itself off from its near neighbours .
And with BREXIT we'll become poorer so less attractive to migrants.
er?
o economically well post-Brexit, while the EU stagnates further, at what point would those who voted Remain change their minds?
What a silly question - If the UK "appears" to be doing better than the EU after Brexit this is because
1) You are not looking at the right numbers. UK has become a dog-eat-dog super-unequal hellhole. 2) The WWC (Nazi Scum that they are) have savagely destroyed Europe out of their (usual) racist, homophobic, isolationist, little englander, failed state, misogynistic, cannibalistic beliefs and behaviours. 3) UK and EU would have been even richer together.
Didn't you get the memo?
It is also very possible that the EU will do better economically. At what point would the Leavers change their minds?
There are two main Leaver shibboleths that will be seen for what they are over time: firstly that the EU is a protectionist block that held back our free trading ways, and secondly that the Euro is a disastrous failure.
Well, I think you're wrong on the Euro.
But the one you missed was the idea that we are weighed down in EU regulation. I think there's very little evidence of that, especially given our opt-outs.
I would wait till we are adfrift on our own, lots of wishful thinking re Empire days etc, UK will be continuing its decline but at a more rapid pace. We have little to sell and once the crooked bankers decamp there will be nothing.
Errr... aren't you forgetting turnips??
Rob,We will be keeping them for ourselves, you have had all our oil , you will not get the turnips so easily.
Fear not. There are more than enough turnips south of the border.
I resisted the urge to mention this earlier, but as it's a shade grumpy here now it doesn't seem so bad.
Very likely now that Kingdom Asunder will be out before the end of the year. Got technical fiddlery and irksome marketing stuff to try and work out, but I've got all the ingredients necessary for cooking up a delicious story of blood and betrayal.
But the one you missed was the idea that we are weighed down in EU regulation. I think there's very little evidence of that, especially given our opt-outs.
The EU directive on GMOs is essentially preventing any commercialization of synthetic biology. Synthetic biology - the biological revolution - is supposed to be the next great economic revolution, akin to the electronic and then IT revolutions. The EU, despite a very strong research position, is simply not placed to exploit its technology.
Another EU directive coming into force this year essentially bans the production of the chemical that is the basis of disinfection in hospitals and laboratories. Expect hospital-acquired (nosocomial) and laboratory-acquired infections to increase once this directive enters into force. The sad thing is that the hospital and laboratory community was not even aware, let alone involved, in the development of the regulation until it was too late to stop, as it was seen as an environmental issue. And good luck with rolling back such EU regulation once the negative impacts are felt.
These are just two I know about in my specific area of expertise
Other countries seeking trade deals with the UK post Brexit will not be doing with the best interests of the UK in their minds . They will be seeking to take advantage of a weakened isolated little island nation which has cut itself off from its near neighbours .
And with BREXIT we'll become poorer so less attractive to migrants.
er?
o economically well post-Brexit, while the EU stagnates further, at what point would those who voted Remain change their minds?
What a silly question - If the UK "appears" to be doing better than the EU after Brexit this is because
1) You are not looking at the right numbers. UK has become a dog-eat-dog super-unequal hellhole. 2) The WWC (Nazi Scum that they are) have savagely destroyed Europe out of their (usual) racist, homophobic, isolationist, little englander, failed state, misogynistic, cannibalistic beliefs and behaviours. 3) UK and EU would have been even richer together.
Didn't you get the memo?
It is also very possible that the EU will do better economically. At what point would the Leavers change their minds?
There are two main Leaver shibboleths that will be seen for what they are over time: firstly that the EU is a protectionist block that held back our free trading ways, and secondly that the Euro is a disastrous failure.
Well, I think you're wrong on the Euro.
But the one you missed was the idea that we are weighed down in EU regulation. I think there's very little evidence of that, especially given our opt-outs.
I would wait till we are adfrift on our own, lots of wishful thinking re Empire days etc, UK will be continuing its decline but at a more rapid pace. We have little to sell and once the crooked bankers decamp there will be nothing.
Errr... aren't you forgetting turnips??
Rob,We will be keeping them for ourselves, you have had all our oil , you will not get the turnips so easily.
Fear not. There are more than enough turnips south of the border.
I resisted the urge to mention this earlier, but as it's a shade grumpy here now it doesn't seem so bad.
Very likely now that Kingdom Asunder will be out before the end of the year. Got technical fiddlery and irksome marketing stuff to try and work out, but I've got all the ingredients necessary for cooking up a delicious story of blood and betrayal.
Is there any meaningful constituency - the arch-federalists, residing mainly within the EU institutions, notwithstanding - which views the Euro as a success?
Altough I assume many people don't like it, the fact that no government that uses the Euro has even *tried* to get rid of it (don't forget Tsipras fired Varoufakis immediately when it became public he was trying to establish a shadow currency) makes me think that *they* consider it better than the alternatives.
Unstupid point: a lot of the anglophone discussion about the EU is between people who speak English. It sounds obvious, but we routinely neglect the views of the rest of the planet, who may have a different opinion. It's like the back of your head: a blind spot so big you don't notice it's there.
Indeed even at the heart of the Greek crisis there was very little support for a return to the Drachma in Greece.
Serial devaluation is not really a sign of economic success.
Other countries seeking trade deals with the UK post Brexit will not be doing with the best interests of the UK in their minds . They will be seeking to take advantage of a weakened isolated little island nation which has cut itself off from its near neighbours .
And with BREXIT we'll become poorer so less attractive to migrants.
er?
o economically well post-Brexit, while the EU stagnates further, at what point would those who voted Remain change their minds?
What a silly question - If the UK "appears" to be doing better than the EU after Brexit this is because
Didn't you get the memo?
It is also very possible that the EU will do better economically. At what point would the Leavers change their minds?
Well, I think you're wrong on the Euro.
But the one you missed was the idea that we are weighed down in EU regulation. I think there's very little evidence of that, especially given our opt-outs.
I would wait till we are adfrift on our own, lots of wishful thinking re Empire days etc, UK will be continuing its decline but at a more rapid pace. We have little to sell and once the crooked bankers decamp there will be nothing.
Errr... aren't you forgetting turnips??
Rob,We will be keeping them for ourselves, you have had all our oil , you will not get the turnips so easily.
I swear there was a famous quote on that... "They can take our oil, but they'll never take our turnips!"...... something like that
I'm warming to the Euro, mainly because it has opened up the markets of its members, making them much more export oriented recently, compared with the UK, for example. UK growth in recent years compares with the Eurozone average. There is a wide divergence within the Eurozone. The best performing countries like Germany have grown significantly more than we have.
Hardly a shocker since they are essentially doing it at the expense of the mediterranean countries (notably the Greeks). The Euro is massively undervalued for German, and overvalued for club med.
If DB blows up in an almighty mess it might slightly take the shine off.
At the expense of EuroMed. There's some of that, but it's only a part. EuroMed economies in total are smaller than the the northern powerhouses for a start. Eurozone countries have got better at exporting outside of the zone too.
I suspect DB fallout will have a smaller effect on Eurozone economies than Brexit will have on ours. We'll see.
Other countries seeking trade deals with the UK post Brexit will not be doing with the best interests of the UK in their minds . They will be seeking to take advantage of a weakened isolated little island nation which has cut itself off from its near neighbours .
And with BREXIT we'll become poorer so less attractive to migrants.
er?
o economically well post-Brexit, while the EU stagnates further, at what point would those who voted Remain change their minds?
Didn't you get the memo?
It is also very possible that the EU will do better economically. At what point would the Leavers change their minds?
Well, I think you're wrong on the Euro.
But the one you missed was the idea that we are weighed down in EU regulation. I think there's very little evidence of that, especially given our opt-outs.
I would wait till we are adfrift on our own, lots of wishful thinking re Empire days etc, UK will be continuing its decline but at a more rapid pace. We have little to sell and once the crooked bankers decamp there will be nothing.
Errr... aren't you forgetting turnips??
Rob,We will be keeping them for ourselves, you have had all our oil , you will not get the turnips so easily.
Fear not. There are more than enough turnips south of the border.
Lots of gangs have horrific joining rituals. Leaving aside that now they'd be filmed on phones and potentially used as blackmail threats, the horrendous ordeal was designed to make membership desirable and the prospect of leaving difficult.
After all, if membership requires great pain, it must be worth having, right? And if you've gone through hell, do you want to leave and have that hell all be for nothing?
Other countries seeking trade deals with the UK post Brexit will not be doing with the best interests of the UK in their minds . They will be seeking to take advantage of a weakened isolated little island nation which has cut itself off from its near neighbours .
And with BREXIT we'll become poorer so less attractive to migrants.
er?
o economically well post-Brexit, while the EU stagnates further, at what point would those who voted Remain change their minds?
What a silly question - If the UK "appears" to be doing better than the EU after Brexit this is because
1) You are not looking at the right numbers. UK has become a dog-eat-dog super-unequal hellhole. 2) The WWC (Nazi Scum that they are) have savagely destroyed Europe out of their (usual) racist, homophobic, isolationist, little englander, failed state, misogynistic, cannibalistic beliefs and behaviours. 3) UK and EU would have been even richer together.
Didn't you get the memo?
Well, I think you're wrong on the Euro.
But the one you missed was the idea that we are weighed down in EU regulation. I think there's very little evidence of that, especially given our opt-outs.
I would wait till we are adfrift on our own, lots of wishful thinking re Empire days etc, UK will be continuing its decline but at a more rapid pace. We have little to sell and once the crooked bankers decamp there will be nothing.
Errr... aren't you forgetting turnips??
Rob,We will be keeping them for ourselves, you have had all our oil , you will not get the turnips so easily.
Fear not. There are more than enough turnips south of the border.
All turnips will have to be exported so that we can earn enough Euros to buy the French Onions we prefer to eat .
"you certainly can’t argue that Donald Trump doesn’t represent change. We’re just hoping people realize it’s the kind of change you get if you decide to remove the trash by driving a bulldozer through the kitchen."
Other countries seeking trade deals with the UK post Brexit will not be doing with the best interests of the UK in their minds . They will be seeking to take advantage of a weakened isolated little island nation which has cut itself off from its near neighbours .
The UK, viewed in the round, is one of the dozen best countries to live in the world, and I see no reason for that to change.
And with BREXIT we'll become poorer so less attractive to migrants.
I'm pretty confident that ten years from now, the UK will have a higher standard of living than it does today (barring a war). The question is how much higher?
If the UK does do economically well post-Brexit, while the EU stagnates further, at what point would those who voted Remain change their minds?
What a silly question - If the UK "appears" to be doing better than the EU after Brexit this is because
1) You are not looking at the right numbers. UK has become a dog-eat-dog super-unequal hellhole. 2) The WWC (Nazi Scum that they are) have savagely destroyed Europe out of their (usual) racist, homophobic, isolationist, little englander, failed state, misogynistic, cannibalistic beliefs and behaviours. 3) UK and EU would have been even richer together.
Didn't you get the memo?
It is also very possible that the EU will do better economically. At what point would the Leavers change their minds?
There are two main Leaver shibboleths that will be seen for what they are over time: firstly that the EU is a protectionist block that held back our free trading ways, and secondly that the Euro is a disastrous failure.
Well, I think you're wrong on the Euro.
But the one you missed was the idea that we are weighed down in EU regulation. I think there's very little evidence of that, especially given our opt-outs.
We will be weighed down in customs documentation plus long queues at customs if we are outside the customs union. So much for reducing EU "bureaucracy".
Other countries seeking trade deals with the UK post Brexit will not be doing with the best interests of the UK in their minds . They will be seeking to take advantage of a weakened isolated little island nation which has cut itself off from its near neighbours .
And with BREXIT we'll become poorer so less attractive to migrants.
er?
o economically well post-Brexit, while the EU stagnates further, at what point would those who voted Remain change their minds?
What a silly question - If the UK "appears" to be doing better than the EU after Brexit this is because
Didn't you get the memo?
It is also very possible that the EU will do better economically. At what point would the Leavers change their minds?
Well, I think you're wrong on the Euro.
But the one you missed was the idea that we are weighed down in EU regulation. I think there's very little evidence of that, especially given our opt-outs.
I would wait till we are adfrift on our own, lots of wishful thinking re Empire days etc, UK will be continuing its decline but at a more rapid pace. We have little to sell and once the crooked bankers decamp there will be nothing.
Errr... aren't you forgetting turnips??
Rob,We will be keeping them for ourselves, you have had all our oil , you will not get the turnips so easily.
I swear there was a famous quote on that... "They can take our oil, but they'll never take our turnips!"...... something like that
LOL
- You've finally learnt how to Turnip! Now you're ready to be King!
Other countries seeking trade deals with the UK post Brexit will not be doing with the best interests of the UK in their minds . They will be seeking to take advantage of a weakened isolated little island nation which has cut itself off from its near neighbours .
The UK, viewed in the round, is one of the dozen best countries to live in the world, and I see no reason for that to change.
And with BREXIT we'll become poorer so less attractive to migrants.
I'm pretty confident that ten years from now, the UK will have a higher standard of living than it does today (barring a war). The question is how much higher?
If the UK does do economically well post-Brexit, while the EU stagnates further, at what point would those who voted Remain change their minds?
What a silly question - If the UK "appears" to be doing better than the EU after Brexit this is because
1) You are not looking at the right numbers. UK has become a dog-eat-dog super-unequal hellhole. 2) The WWC (Nazi Scum that they are) have savagely destroyed Europe out of their (usual) racist, homophobic, isolationist, little englander, failed state, misogynistic, cannibalistic beliefs and behaviours. 3) UK and EU would have been even richer together.
Didn't you get the memo?
It is also very possible that the EU will do better economically. At what point would the Leavers change their minds?
There are two main Leaver shibboleths that will be seen for what they are over time: firstly that the EU is a protectionist block that held back our free trading ways, and secondly that the Euro is a disastrous failure.
Well, I think you're wrong on the Euro.
But the one you missed was the idea that we are weighed down in EU regulation. I think there's very little evidence of that, especially given our opt-outs.
We will be weighed down in customs documentation plus long queues at customs if we are outside the customs union. So much for reducing EU "bureaucracy".
Lots of gangs have horrific joining rituals. Leaving aside that now they'd be filmed on phones and potentially used as blackmail threats, the horrendous ordeal was designed to make membership desirable and the prospect of leaving difficult.
After all, if membership requires great pain, it must be worth having, right? And if you've gone through hell, do you want to leave and have that hell all be for nothing?
Our fundamental mistake is to view the Euro in economic terms. If the purpose of economic policy is to promote stability so that living standards may rise, then the Euro must be counted a failure -for 130 m Southern Europeans, at any rate.
But if the purpose is to bind people into irreversible political union, well economic hardship just doesn't matter.
Mr. Barnesian, having voted to leave, do you think it's legitimate for us to continue to have tariffs and other trade barriers with the rest of the world set by the EU?
Mr. F, to be honest, I think most people (who aren't Huhnish clowns, still remember him claiming us being in the eurozone would give us more control) recognise that.
I'm warming to the Euro, mainly because it has opened up the markets of its members, making them much more export oriented recently, compared with the UK, for example. UK growth in recent years compares with the Eurozone average. There is a wide divergence within the Eurozone. The best performing countries like Germany have grown significantly more than we have.
It's hard to know where to begin when confronted with remarks like this.
Of course Germany has done better than us. Notwithstanding the fact that it was well managed and extremely good at export manufacturing long before the Euro was conceived of, it has also benefitted enormously from what amounts to a huge competitive devaluation *within* the Eurozone itself since it was formed (I've not the space to explain here, but further details are available from http://www.cer.org.uk/insights/eurozones-ruinous-embrace-competitive-devaluation ) This effectively allows Germany to export cheaply to fellow Eurozone members and to hollow out their industrial bases accordingly - even though most of these countries are less well off than Germany is, and would be able under normal circumstances to rely on changes in the relative value of sovereign currencies to correct this problem.
Germany is much the largest economy in the Eurozone, and its relatively strong performance therefore makes the overall performance of the whole single currency area appear an awful lot better than it actually is. The further "opening up" of the Eurozone's economies to each other certainly hasn't benefitted all equally. Italy's GDP has barely grown at all, in real terms, since it joined the single currency in 1999, and it now has the third largest sovereign debt market in the world. Unemployment currently runs at 10% in France, 11% in Italy, 12% in Portugal, 20% in Spain and 24% in Greece. In all of these countries, youth unemployment is drastically worse, reaching 39% in Italy, 44% in Spain and 50% in Greece.
Moreover, the Euro doesn't even succeed in the way that you credit it with: data from 2013 (source: https://www.quandl.com/collections/economics/exports-as-share-of-gdp-by-country ) shows that exports as a percentage of GDP had grown by a similar, modest amount in France, Italy and the UK over the preceding decade. In fact, the increase in the UK's value for this metric was actually slightly greater than that for those states in Latin Europe who supposedly have the Euro to thank for a boom in their export trade.
There is a wide divergence in economic performance within the Eurozone primarily because of the existence of the Euro. The fundamental flaws inherent in its design make failure inevitable. Absent the huge steps towards political union and a common treasury needed to correct those flaws, it is not only morally imperative but a matter of common sense that the whole Euro project be put out of its misery.
Mr. Barnesian, having voted to leave, do you think it's legitimate for us to continue to have tariffs and other trade barriers with the rest of the world set by the EU?
Yes. The referendum question wasn't "Should we continue to have tariffs and other trade barriers with the rest of the world set by the EU?"
Using your logic you could argue that having voted to leave the EU, it's not legitimate for us to continue to trade with the EU. Come on.
Lots of gangs have horrific joining rituals. Leaving aside that now they'd be filmed on phones and potentially used as blackmail threats, the horrendous ordeal was designed to make membership desirable and the prospect of leaving difficult.
After all, if membership requires great pain, it must be worth having, right? And if you've gone through hell, do you want to leave and have that hell all be for nothing?
Our fundamental mistake is to view the Euro in economic terms. If the purpose of economic policy is to promote stability so that living standards may rise, then the Euro must be counted a failure -for 130 m Southern Europeans, at any rate.
But if the purpose is to bind people into irreversible political union, well economic hardship just doesn't matter.
Of course, that's why the deranged federalists view it as a success. Any suffering it causes is incidental and worth the end goal. They are despicable.
Other countries seeking trade deals with the UK post Brexit will not be doing with the best interests of the UK in their minds . They will be seeking to take advantage of a weakened isolated little island nation which has cut itself off from its near neighbours .
And with BREXIT we'll become poorer so less attractive to migrants.
er?
o economically well post-Brexit, while the EU stagnates further, at what point would those who voted Remain change their minds?
What a silly question - If the UK "appears" to be doing better than the EU after Brexit this is because
Didn't you get the memo?
It is also very possible that the EU will do better economically. At what point would the Leavers change their minds?
Well, I think you're wrong on the Euro.
But the one you missed was the idea that we are weighed down in EU regulation. I think there's very little evidence of that, especially given our opt-outs.
I would wait till we are adfrift on our own, lots of wishful thinking re Empire days etc, UK will be continuing its decline but at a more rapid pace. We have little to sell and once the crooked bankers decamp there will be nothing.
Errr... aren't you forgetting turnips??
Rob,We will be keeping them for ourselves, you have had all our oil , you will not get the turnips so easily.
Fear not. There are more than enough turnips south of the border.
I'm warming to the Euro, mainly because it has opened up the markets of its members, making them much more export oriented recently, compared with the UK, for example. UK growth in recent years compares with the Eurozone average. There is a wide divergence within the Eurozone. The best performing countries like Germany have grown significantly more than we have.
It's hard to know where to begin when confronted with remarks like this.
Of course Germany has done better than us. Notwithstanding the fact that it was well managed and extremely good at export manufacturing long before the Euro was conceived of, it has also benefitted enormously from what amounts to a huge competitive devaluation *within* the Eurozone itself since it was formed (I've not the space to explain here, but further details are available from http://www.cer.org.uk/insights/eurozones-ruinous-embrace-competitive-devaluation ) This effectively allows Germany to export cheaply to fellow Eurozone members and to hollow out their industrial
Germany is much the largest economy in the Eurozone, and its relatively strong performance therefore makes the overall performance of the whole single currency area appear an awful lot better than it actually is. The further "opening up" of the Eurozone's economies to each other certainly hasn't benefitted all equally. Italy's GDP has barely grown at all, in real terms, since it joined the single currency in 1999, and it now has the third largest sovereign debt market in the world. Unemployment currently runs at 10% in France, 11% in Italy, 12% in Portugal, 20% in Spain and 24% in Greece. In all of these countries, youth unemployment is drastically worse, reaching 39% in Italy, 44% in Spain and 50% in Greece.
Moreover, the Euro doesn't even succeed in the way that you credit it with: data from 2013 (source: https://www.quandl.com/collections/economics/exports-as-share-of-gdp-by-country ) shows that exports as a percentage of GDP had grown by a similar, modest amount in France, Italy and the UK over the preceding decade. In fact, the increase in the UK's value for this metric was actually slightly greater than that for those states in Latin Europe who supposedly have the Euro to thank for a boom in their export trade.
There is a wide divergence in economic performance within the Eurozone primarily because of the existence of the Euro. The fundamental flaws inherent in its design make failure inevitable. Absent the huge steps towards political union and a common treasury needed to correct those flaws, it is not only morally imperative but a matter of common sense that the whole Euro project be put out of its misery.
For Euro apologists, high unemployment is a feature, not a bug. The unemployed should simply emigrate to other EU States.
Another EU directive coming into force this year essentially bans the production of the chemical that is the basis of disinfection in hospitals and laboratories. Expect hospital-acquired (nosocomial) and laboratory-acquired infections to increase once this directive enters into force. The sad thing is that the hospital and laboratory community was not even aware, let alone involved, in the development of the regulation until it was too late to stop, as it was seen as an environmental issue. And good luck with rolling back such EU regulation once the negative impacts are felt.
These are just two I know about in my specific area of expertise
This is typical of the sort of thing that if it had to be proposed as a measure by the British Government and put through parliament wouldnt stand a chance.
However as a directive proposed by the undemocratic commission it is nodded through as secondary legislation under the EEC Act 1972 with MPs told that it would be 'an abuse of process' to oppose it.
It makes my blood boil - or at least it would have done until June 24th when I discovered a majority of my fellow British citizens felt the same way and were not prepared to put up with this state of affairs any longer. Now I juat grimace then sigh "Thank Goodness" when I read things like that.
It's hard to know where to begin when confronted with remarks like this.
Of course Germany has done better than us. Notwithstanding the fact that it was well managed and extremely good at export manufacturing long before the Euro was conceived of, it has also benefitted enormously from what amounts to a huge competitive devaluation *within* the Eurozone itself since it was formed (I've not the space to explain here, but further details are available from http://www.cer.org.uk/insights/eurozones-ruinous-embrace-competitive-devaluation ) This effectively allows Germany to export cheaply to fellow Eurozone members and to hollow out their industrial bases accordingly - even though most of these countries are less well off than Germany is, and would be able under normal circumstances to rely on changes in the relative value of sovereign currencies to correct this problem.
Germany is much the largest economy in the Eurozone, and its relatively strong performance therefore makes the overall performance of the whole single currency area appear an awful lot better than it actually is. The further "opening up" of the Eurozone's economies to each other certainly hasn't benefitted all equally. Italy's GDP has barely grown at all, in real terms, since it joined the single currency in 1999, and it now has the third largest sovereign debt market in the world. Unemployment currently runs at 10% in France, 11% in Italy, 12% in Portugal, 20% in Spain and 24% in Greece. In all of these countries, youth unemployment is drastically worse, reaching 39% in Italy, 44% in Spain and 50% in Greece.
Moreover, the Euro doesn't even succeed in the way that you credit it with: data from 2013 (source: https://www.quandl.com/collections/economics/exports-as-share-of-gdp-by-country ) shows that exports as a percentage of GDP had grown by a similar, modest amount in France, Italy and the UK over the preceding decade. In fact, the increase in the UK's value for this metric was actually slightly greater than that for those states in Latin Europe who supposedly have the Euro to thank for a boom in their export trade.
There is a wide divergence in economic performance within the Eurozone primarily because of the existence of the Euro. The fundamental flaws inherent in its design make failure inevitable. Absent the huge steps towards political union and a common treasury needed to correct those flaws, it is not only morally imperative but a matter of common sense that the whole Euro project be put out of its misery.
Don't bother, there's no convincing these deranged EUphiles. The EU is good and everyone who opposes it is wrong, regardless of the evidence.
Mr. Barnesian, I'm not advocating ending trade with the EU.
Diane James would love your answer. I suspect the electorate would not.
I didn't think you were advocating ending trade with the EU! I was just pointing out a fault in your logic.
If we leave the customs union we will be faced by a lot more cost and bureaucracy. Most leavers wouldn't advocate that if they want to reduce bureaucracy.
Another EU directive coming into force this year essentially bans the production of the chemical that is the basis of disinfection in hospitals and laboratories. Expect hospital-acquired (nosocomial) and laboratory-acquired infections to increase once this directive enters into force. The sad thing is that the hospital and laboratory community was not even aware, let alone involved, in the development of the regulation until it was too late to stop, as it was seen as an environmental issue. And good luck with rolling back such EU regulation once the negative impacts are felt.
These are just two I know about in my specific area of expertise
This is typical of the sort of thing that if it had to be proposed as a measure by the British Government and put through parliament wouldnt stand a chance.
However as a directive proposed by the undemocratic commission it is nodded through as secondary legislation under the EEC Act 1972 with MPs told that it would be 'an abuse of process' to oppose it.
It makes my blood boil - or at least it would have done until June 24th when I discovered a majority of my fellow British citizens felt the same way and were not prepared to put up with this state of affairs any longer. Now I juat grimace then sigh "Thank Goodness" when I read things like that.
Mr. Barnesian, I disagree. My view is that the vast majority of those who voted to leave the EU would not want it handling our trade deals with the rest of the world.
Another EU directive coming into force this year essentially bans the production of the chemical that is the basis of disinfection in hospitals and laboratories. Expect hospital-acquired (nosocomial) and laboratory-acquired infections to increase once this directive enters into force. The sad thing is that the hospital and laboratory community was not even aware, let alone involved, in the development of the regulation until it was too late to stop, as it was seen as an environmental issue. And good luck with rolling back such EU regulation once the negative impacts are felt.
These are just two I know about in my specific area of expertise
This is typical of the sort of thing that if it had to be proposed as a measure by the British Government and put through parliament wouldnt stand a chance.
However as a directive proposed by the undemocratic commission it is nodded through as secondary legislation under the EEC Act 1972 with MPs told that it would be 'an abuse of process' to oppose it.
It makes my blood boil - or at least it would have done until June 24th when I discovered a majority of my fellow British citizens felt the same way and were not prepared to put up with this state of affairs any longer. Now I juat grimace then sigh "Thank Goodness" when I read things like that.
How is the clock doing, still clucking
Its in the same room as another clock with Westminster Chimes so by late morning if it is set accurately you get ..
Boing Cuckoo Boing Cuckoo Boing Cuckoo Boing Cuckoo for about a minute.
A bit like listening to Jeremy at the Labour Conference.
Also its wings are a bit odd, they are more like my spaniels ears than wings.
Plenty left over at the shop last night. They are not selling all that fast.
Another EU directive coming into force this year essentially bans the production of the chemical that is the basis of disinfection in hospitals and laboratories. Expect hospital-acquired (nosocomial) and laboratory-acquired infections to increase once this directive enters into force. The sad thing is that the hospital and laboratory community was not even aware, let alone involved, in the development of the regulation until it was too late to stop, as it was seen as an environmental issue. And good luck with rolling back such EU regulation once the negative impacts are felt.
These are just two I know about in my specific area of expertise
This is typical of the sort of thing that if it had to be proposed as a measure by the British Government and put through parliament wouldnt stand a chance.
However as a directive proposed by the undemocratic commission it is nodded through as secondary legislation under the EEC Act 1972 with MPs told that it would be 'an abuse of process' to oppose it.
It makes my blood boil - or at least it would have done until June 24th when I discovered a majority of my fellow British citizens felt the same way and were not prepared to put up with this state of affairs any longer. Now I juat grimace then sigh "Thank Goodness" when I read things like that.
How is the clock doing, still clucking
Also its wings are a bit odd, they are more like my spaniels ears than wings.
Plenty left over at the shop last night. They are not selling all that fast.
Lots of gangs have horrific joining rituals. Leaving aside that now they'd be filmed on phones and potentially used as blackmail threats, the horrendous ordeal was designed to make membership desirable and the prospect of leaving difficult.
After all, if membership requires great pain, it must be worth having, right? And if you've gone through hell, do you want to leave and have that hell all be for nothing?
Our fundamental mistake is to view the Euro in economic terms. If the purpose of economic policy is to promote stability so that living standards may rise, then the Euro must be counted a failure -for 130 m Southern Europeans, at any rate.
But if the purpose is to bind people into irreversible political union, well economic hardship just doesn't matter.
Of course, that's why the deranged federalists view it as a success. Any suffering it causes is incidental and worth the end goal. They are despicable.
Except that the federalists are wrong to view it as a success. They wanted to force political union through the doctrine of beneficial crisis. It hasn't worked. Political union has not been forthcoming, the various power blocs within the EU have fallen to bickering amongst themselves over debt pooling and bailouts, the migrant crisis and open borders, and policy towards Russia, and now the second largest member state has voted to abandon the project altogether.
I agree that the aim of driving the peoples of Europe towards a federation that few of them wanted - over the prone corpses of their nation states and their democratic will - is abhorrent. But if those doing the driving think that the plan is coming together then they're liable to be disabused of the notion. The Euro cannot be made to work without political union, but the member state governments - even those still consisting of politicians who persist in thinking that this is a desirable objective - seem to lack the ability to get there. Absent political union, surely all they can do is keep on managing the crisis until the Euro eventually collapses?
It's hard to know where to begin when confronted with remarks like this.
Of course Germany has done better than us. Notwithstanding the fact that it was well managed and extremely good at export manufacturing long before the Euro was conceived of, it has also benefitted enormously from what amounts to a huge competitive devaluation *within* the Eurozone itself since it was formed (I've not the space to explain here, but further details are available from http://www.cer.org.uk/insights/eurozones-ruinous-embrace-competitive-devaluation ) This effectively allows Germany to export cheaply to fellow Eurozone members and to hollow out their industrial bases accordingly - even though most of these countries are less well off than Germany is, and would be able under normal circumstances to rely on changes in the relative value of sovereign currencies to correct this problem.
Germany is much the largest economy in the Eurozone, and its relatively strong performance therefore makes the overall performance of the whole single currency area appear an awful lot better than it actually is. The further "opening up" of the Eurozone's economies to each other certainly hasn't benefitted all equally. Italy's GDP has barely grown at all, in real terms, since it joined the single currency in 1999, and it now has the third largest sovereign debt market in the world. Unemployment currently runs at 10% in France, 11% in Italy, 12% in Portugal, 20% in Spain and 24% in Greece. In all of these countries, youth unemployment is drastically worse, reaching 39% in Italy, 44% in Spain and 50% in Greece.
Moreover, the Euro doesn't even succeed in the way that you credit it with: data from 2013 (source: https://www.quandl.com/collections/economics/exports-as-share-of-gdp-by-country ) shows that exports as a percentage of GDP had grown by a similar, modest amount in France, Italy and the UK over the preceding decade. In fact, the increase in the UK's value for this metric was actually slightly greater than that for those states in Latin Europe who supposedly have the Euro to thank for a boom in their export trade.
There is a wide divergence in economic performance within the Eurozone primarily because of the existence of the Euro. The fundamental flaws inherent in its design make failure inevitable. Absent the huge steps towards political union and a common treasury needed to correct those flaws, it is not only morally imperative but a matter of common sense that the whole Euro project be put out of its misery.
Don't bother, there's no convincing these deranged EUphiles. The EU is good and everyone who opposes it is wrong, regardless of the evidence.
I suppose it is the price that has to be paid when the sit is run by a libdem. The EU seems to be like a religion to them.
Another EU directive coming into force this year essentially bans the production of the chemical that is the basis of disinfection in hospitals and laboratories. Expect hospital-acquired (nosocomial) and laboratory-acquired infections to increase once this directive enters into force. The sad thing is that the hospital and laboratory community was not even aware, let alone involved, in the development of the regulation until it was too late to stop, as it was seen as an environmental issue. And good luck with rolling back such EU regulation once the negative impacts are felt.
These are just two I know about in my specific area of expertise
This is typical of the sort of thing that if it had to be proposed as a measure by the British Government and put through parliament wouldnt stand a chance.
However as a directive proposed by the undemocratic commission it is nodded through as secondary legislation under the EEC Act 1972 with MPs told that it would be 'an abuse of process' to oppose it.
It makes my blood boil - or at least it would have done until June 24th when I discovered a majority of my fellow British citizens felt the same way and were not prepared to put up with this state of affairs any longer. Now I juat grimace then sigh "Thank Goodness" when I read things like that.
How is the clock doing, still clucking
Also its wings are a bit odd, they are more like my spaniels ears than wings.
Plenty left over at the shop last night. They are not selling all that fast.
Hard to think why....
The other thing is that its cuckooing is recorded cuckooing in the black forest or somewhere.
Unfortunately they didnt notice when they recorded it that another cuckoo was cuckooing back at it. So every time it cuckoos there is a slightly fainter response cuckoo afterwards so at ten oclock you actually get twenty cuckoos. Ten loud and ten not so loud 'echoes'.
It is quite cute though, even if it is an albino starling with a red beak and spaniel ears that cant count.
Remember when the Times used to be the newspaper of record....
Fantastic anecdote in Rachel Sylvester and Alice Thomson’s The Times puff piece for Theresa May this morning. Only snag, it didn’t happen, the PM has not been to the White House yet…
Is there any meaningful constituency - the arch-federalists, residing mainly within the EU institutions, notwithstanding - which views the Euro as a success?
Altough I assume many people don't like it, the fact that no government that uses the Euro has even *tried* to get rid of it (don't forget Tsipras fired Varoufakis immediately when it became public he was trying to establish a shadow currency) makes me think that *they* consider it better than the alternatives.
Unstupid point: a lot of the anglophone discussion about the EU is between people who speak English. It sounds obvious, but we routinely neglect the views of the rest of the planet, who may have a different opinion. It's like the back of your head: a blind spot so big you don't notice it's there.
The fact that a half-ruined country like Greece might have invested so much political, economic and emotional capital in being part of the Euro that it can't bear to give it up does not mean that membership of the single currency can be viewed as having been a success for it. If Greece were to return to the drachma now then this would effectively amount to an admission that Euro membership has failed - and, therefore, the enormous suffering of the Greek people since 2008 has been to no useful end whatsoever. So, finding themselves in a hole, they nonetheless keep on digging.
Remember when the Times used to be the newspaper of record....
Fantastic anecdote in Rachel Sylvester and Alice Thomson’s The Times puff piece for Theresa May this morning. Only snag, it didn’t happen, the PM has not been to the White House yet…
Lots of gangs have horrific joining rituals. Leaving aside that now they'd be filmed on phones and potentially used as blackmail threats, the horrendous ordeal was designed to make membership desirable and the prospect of leaving difficult.
After all, if membership requires great pain, it must be worth having, right? And if you've gone through hell, do you want to leave and have that hell all be for nothing?
Our fundamental mistake is to view the Euro in economic terms. If the purpose of economic policy is to promote stability so that living standards may rise, then the Euro must be counted a failure -for 130 m Southern Europeans, at any rate.
But if the purpose is to bind people into irreversible political union, well economic hardship just doesn't matter.
Of course, that's why the deranged federalists view it as a success. Any suffering it causes is incidental and worth the end goal. They are despicable.
The economic suffering is a designed feature as it encourages migration between different EU countries thereby breaking down individual national feelings and associations.
The UK, viewed in the round, is one of the dozen best countries to live in the world, and I see no reason for that to change.
And with BREXIT we'll become poorer so less attractive to migrants.
I'm pretty confident that ten years from now, the UK will have a higher standard of living than it does today (barring a war). The question is how much higher?
If the UK does do economically well post-Brexit, while the EU stagnates further, at what point would those who voted Remain change their minds?
What a silly question - If the UK "appears" to be doing better than the EU after Brexit this is because
1) You are not looking at the right numbers. UK has become a dog-eat-dog super-unequal hellhole. 2) The WWC (Nazi Scum that they are) have savagely destroyed Europe out of their (usual) racist, homophobic, isolationist, little englander, failed state, misogynistic, cannibalistic beliefs and behaviours. 3) UK and EU would have been even richer together.
Didn't you get the memo?
It is also very possible that the EU will do better economically. At what point would the Leavers change their minds?
As a mild Remainer (voted Remain but not a EuroNationalist)... I predict the following:
10 years after Brexit actually happens, PhDs will be written on whether the result was positive or negative for the EU, the UK, Swaziland etc. There will be no clear answer, since it would mean disentangling the "facts" (disputed) of economic performance from the side effects of WWIII, WWIV, Antarctica winning the EuroVision song contest etc etc.
Partisans of both sides will engage in un-ending pie fight at various levels of intellectual sophistication from now until.... Approximately 10,000 million years from now, a Matrioshka Brain (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Matrioshka_brain) in the Andromea Galaxy will claim to have proved who won.
I'm warming to the Euro, mainly because it has opened up the markets of its members, making them much more export oriented recently, compared with the UK, for example. UK growth in recent years compares with the Eurozone average. There is a wide divergence within the Eurozone. The best performing countries like Germany have grown significantly more than we have.
Moreover, the Euro doesn't even succeed in the way that you credit it with: data from 2013 (source: https://www.quandl.com/collections/economics/exports-as-share-of-gdp-by-country ) shows that exports as a percentage of GDP had grown by a similar, modest amount in France, Italy and the UK over the preceding decade. In fact, the increase in the UK's value for this metric was actually slightly greater than that for those states in Latin Europe who supposedly have the Euro to thank for a boom in their export trade.
There is a wide divergence in economic performance within the Eurozone primarily because of the existence of the Euro. The fundamental flaws inherent in its design make failure inevitable. Absent the huge steps towards political union and a common treasury needed to correct those flaws, it is not only morally imperative but a matter of common sense that the whole Euro project be put out of its misery.
For Euro apologists, high unemployment is a feature, not a bug. The unemployed should simply emigrate to other EU States.
Except that a number of unemployed have others to support, and don't have the language skills to move to another State as they could in the US.
Tens of millions of Spanish, Italian, Greek and Portuguese young unemployed don't think the Euro is working well for them, nor a 'Price Worth Paying' for some vague half-finished idea of a European superstate.
Another EU directive coming into force this year essentially bans the production of the chemical that is the basis of disinfection in hospitals and laboratories. Expect hospital-acquired (nosocomial) and laboratory-acquired infections to increase once this directive enters into force. The sad thing is that the hospital and laboratory community was not even aware, let alone involved, in the development of the regulation until it was too late to stop, as it was seen as an environmental issue. And good luck with rolling back such EU regulation once the negative impacts are felt.
These are just two I know about in my specific area of expertise
This is typical of the sort of thing that if it had to be proposed as a measure by the British Government and put through parliament wouldnt stand a chance.
However as a directive proposed by the undemocratic commission it is nodded through as secondary legislation under the EEC Act 1972 with MPs told that it would be 'an abuse of process' to oppose it.
It makes my blood boil - or at least it would have done until June 24th when I discovered a majority of my fellow British citizens felt the same way and were not prepared to put up with this state of affairs any longer. Now I juat grimace then sigh "Thank Goodness" when I read things like that.
How is the clock doing, still clucking
Also its wings are a bit odd, they are more like my spaniels ears than wings.
Plenty left over at the shop last night. They are not selling all that fast.
Hard to think why....
The other thing is that its cuckooing is recorded cuckooing in the black forest or somewhere.
Unfortunately they didnt notice when they recorded it that another cuckoo was cuckooing back at it. So every time it cuckoos there is a slightly fainter response cuckoo afterwards so at ten oclock you actually get twenty cuckoos. Ten loud and ten not so loud 'echoes'.
It is quite cute though, even if it is an albino starling with a red beak and spaniel ears that cant count.
Deep down I think I always wanted one. You have got me looking at them on Amazon now, there is an amazing range, at all price points.
Of course, that's why the deranged federalists view it as a success. Any suffering it causes is incidental and worth the end goal. They are despicable.
Except that the federalists are wrong to view it as a success. They wanted to force political union through the doctrine of beneficial crisis. It hasn't worked. Political union has not been forthcoming, the various power blocs within the EU have fallen to bickering amongst themselves over debt pooling and bailouts, the migrant crisis and open borders, and policy towards Russia, and now the second largest member state has voted to abandon the project altogether.
I agree that the aim of driving the peoples of Europe towards a federation that few of them wanted - over the prone corpses of their nation states and their democratic will - is abhorrent. But if those doing the driving think that the plan is coming together then they're liable to be disabused of the notion. The Euro cannot be made to work without political union, but the member state governments - even those still consisting of politicians who persist in thinking that this is a desirable objective - seem to lack the ability to get there. Absent political union, surely all they can do is keep on managing the crisis until the Euro eventually collapses?
I see a lovely analogy of the EU in the dead whale that was washed ashore the other day. Decomposition well under way.
That means it's a hive of activity all over the place. But, sadly, the great noble creature it once was has long since departed, only the rotting hulk is left behind.
There was an hilarious video of an attempt to dispose of a similar carcass in the US, with dynamite. An on-looker described how the carnival atmosphere amongst spectators changed instantly to terror & panic as the huge chunks of debris came raining down on them, instead of being blown out to sea. Hilarious to watch, but glad I wasn't there - one chunk flattened a car.
Let's hope Mrs May doesn't go for a dynamite Brexit.
Moreover, the Euro doesn't even succeed in the way that you credit it with: data from 2013 (source: https://www.quandl.com/collections/economics/exports-as-share-of-gdp-by-country ) shows that exports as a percentage of GDP had grown by a similar, modest amount in France, Italy and the UK over the preceding decade. In fact, the increase in the UK's value for this metric was actually slightly greater than that for those states in Latin Europe who supposedly have the Euro to thank for a boom in their export trade.
That's because you picked out the least improving Eurozone countries to compare Britain against. Not very aspirational if you don't mind me saying so. Why can't we expect the UK to do as well as Germany, Austria, the Netherlands etc?
Against the Eurozone as a whole since the beginning of time:
We see a big boost in our exports from when we joined the EU, plateauing afterwards. The Eurozone saw a bigger boost in their exports from the start of the EMU in 1990.
Remember when the Times used to be the newspaper of record....
Fantastic anecdote in Rachel Sylvester and Alice Thomson’s The Times puff piece for Theresa May this morning. Only snag, it didn’t happen, the PM has not been to the White House yet…
Oh dear oh dear. Did they not think someone might check such minor details such as the PM visiting the White House? The decline of quality journalism continues unabated.
Another EU directive coming into force this year essentially bans the production of the chemical that is the basis of disinfection in hospitals and laboratories. Expect hospital-acquired (nosocomial) and laboratory-acquired infections to increase once this directive enters into force. The sad thing is that the hospital and laboratory community was not even aware, let alone involved, in the development of the regulation until it was too late to stop, as it was seen as an environmental issue. And good luck with rolling back such EU regulation once the negative impacts are felt.
These are just two I know about in my specific area of expertise
This is typical of the sort of thing that if it had to be proposed as a measure by the British Government and put through parliament wouldnt stand a chance.
However as a directive proposed by the undemocratic commission it is nodded through as secondary legislation under the EEC Act 1972 with MPs told that it would be 'an abuse of process' to oppose it.
It makes my blood boil - or at least it would have done until June 24th when I discovered a majority of my fellow British citizens felt the same way and were not prepared to put up with this state of affairs any longer. Now I juat grimace then sigh "Thank Goodness" when I read things like that.
How is the clock doing, still clucking
Also its wings are a bit odd, they are more like my spaniels ears than wings.
Plenty left over at the shop last night. They are not selling all that fast.
Hard to think why....
The other thing is that its cuckooing is recorded cuckooing in the black forest or somewhere.
Unfortunately they didnt notice when they recorded it that another cuckoo was cuckooing back at it. So every time it cuckoos there is a slightly fainter response cuckoo afterwards so at ten oclock you actually get twenty cuckoos. Ten loud and ten not so loud 'echoes'.
It is quite cute though, even if it is an albino starling with a red beak and spaniel ears that cant count.
Where do you get it & how much is it? Sounds to me as though such a wacky thing could be a worthwhile purchase.
(edited to add: cue for a run on them, sold out in minutes?)
I'm warming to the Euro, mainly because it has opened up the markets of its members, making them much more export oriented recently, compared with the UK, for example. UK growth in recent years compares with the Eurozone average. There is a wide divergence within the Eurozone. The best performing countries like Germany have grown significantly more than we have.
Moreover, the Euro doesn't even succeed in the way that you credit it with: data from 2013 (source: https://www.quandl.com/collections/economics/exports-as-share-of-gdp-by-country ) shows that exports as a percentage of GDP had grown by a similar, modest amount in France, Italy and the UK over the preceding decade. In fact, the increase in the UK's value for this metric was actually slightly greater than that for those states in Latin Europe who supposedly have the Euro to thank for a boom in their export trade.
There is a wide divergence in economic performance within the Eurozone primarily because of the existence of the Euro. The fundamental flaws inherent in its design make failure inevitable. Absent the huge steps towards political union and a common treasury needed to correct those flaws, it is not only morally imperative but a matter of common sense that the whole Euro project be put out of its misery.
For Euro apologists, high unemployment is a feature, not a bug. The unemployed should simply emigrate to other EU States.
Except that a number of unemployed have others to support, and don't have the language skills to move to another State as they could in the US.
Tens of millions of Spanish, Italian, Greek and Portuguese young unemployed don't think the Euro is working well for them, nor a 'Price Worth Paying' for some vague half-finished idea of a European superstate.
The issue is that a common currency needs common banking and fiscal arrangements to go with it, so that money can be redistributed towards less wealthy areas to offset the tendency for economic activity to centralise. This is what happens within every country, including the UK, and externally directed financial support has been tremendously successful in Europe twice before - the Marshall Plan after the Second World War, and the support directed to former communist Eastern Europe after the wall fell in 1989. And of course the integration of former East Germany into the FDR. The mistake with the Euro was to do the currency bit first, hoping that the rest would follow. If it had all come together, history may well have judged it as a third success in levelling up prosperity across the continent. Doing half the job and hoping the rest will happen later has, so far, turned out to be a serious mistake.
We see a big boost in our exports from when we joined the EU, plateauing afterwards. The Eurozone saw a bigger boost in their exports from the start of the EMU in 1990.
As I seemed to have been marked down as a deranged Euro Federalist, I should note I have somewhat changed my mind about the Euro,from the facts. The chart I referenced above was interesting and unexpected to me. If you are not open to facts and debate, what's the point? It doesn't mean the Euro doesn't have downsides.
The Hungarians don't like Asians - c.f. an Anglo-Indian forced out of his home by racists (and no police support) - so why do real ones expect better? I wonder ifthe pretentious, pompous plastics pontificate about BrExit whilst plactating plebescites pandering to their neighbour plebes inner-self...?
The issue is that a common currency needs common banking and fiscal arrangements to go with it, so that money can be redistributed towards less wealthy areas to offset the tendency for economic activity to centralise. This is what happens within every country, including the UK, and externally directed financial support has been tremendously successful in Europe twice before - the Marshall Plan after the Second World War, and the support directed to former communist Eastern Europe after the wall fell in 1989. And of course the integration of former East Germany into the FDR. The mistake with the Euro was to do the currency bit first, hoping that the rest would follow. If it had all come together, history may well have judged it as a third success in levelling up prosperity across the continent. Doing half the job and hoping the rest will happen later has, so far, turned out to be a serious mistake.
Yes and when a German chancellor signs up for €300bn worth of fiscal transfers out of Germany in into eastern and southern Europe they will get voted out and Germany will leave the EU. The reason the final stage of the monetary union can never be achieved is because voters in northern Europe will never, ever agree to fiscal transfers.
Moreover, the Euro doesn't even succeed in the way that you credit it with: data from 2013 (source: https://www.quandl.com/collections/economics/exports-as-share-of-gdp-by-country ) shows that exports as a percentage of GDP had grown by a similar, modest amount in France, Italy and the UK over the preceding decade. In fact, the increase in the UK's value for this metric was actually slightly greater than that for those states in Latin Europe who supposedly have the Euro to thank for a boom in their export trade.
That's because you picked out the least improving Eurozone countries to compare Britain against. Not very aspirational if you don't mind me saying so. Why can't we expect the UK to do as well as Germany, Austria, the Netherlands etc?
Against the Eurozone as a whole since the beginning of time:
We see a big boost in our exports from when we joined the EU, plateauing afterwards. The Eurozone saw a bigger boost in their exports from the start of the EMU in 1990.
These Eu and Euro haters will always select statistics that show the EU and Euro in a bad light and ignore any facts and statistics that do not . For example , in describing the whole of Southern Europe as a basket case they put their hands over their ears and eyes and go LaLaLa if you point out that Spain's GDP growth rate has exceeded that of the UK for the last 6 quarters .
Remember when the Times used to be the newspaper of record....
Fantastic anecdote in Rachel Sylvester and Alice Thomson’s The Times puff piece for Theresa May this morning. Only snag, it didn’t happen, the PM has not been to the White House yet…
Oh dear oh dear. Did they not think someone might check such minor details such as the PM visiting the White House? The decline of quality journalism continues unabated.
The thing is it isn't even something that is debatable. When we get tales of what was said at a private meeting or dinner its he said she said, but giving a story of a meeting that is easy to check if it took place...Its Johann Hari stuff....
On topic, there do seem to be three distinct voting blocs at the moment. Around 40% are in the Conservative camp, 30% or so in the Labour camp and 30% elsewhere. For the first time in years, both the two main party blocs are under pressure and possible further fragmentation from both to the "elsewhere" bloc seems possible.
The two main parties are of course mutually re-enforcing - the vote of one is often the outcome of fear of the other - but the coming of Corbyn creates the nightmare for the Conservatives if the fear of letting in Labour is no longer seen as realistic. If one of the reasons for voting Conservative - to prevent Labour from getting power - ceases to exist, what then is the reason for supporting the blue team ?
The Conservatives have to continue to promulgate the "threat" of Labour even if the actual prospect of a Labour Government is remote. This provides the "elsewhere" parties with a quandary - being too close to Labour re-enforces the Conservative charge that Labour could be let in through the back door. On the other hand, what's the point of being Conservative-lite ?
Is there any meaningful constituency - the arch-federalists, residing mainly within the EU institutions, notwithstanding - which views the Euro as a success?
Altough I assume many people don't like it, the fact that no government that uses the Euro has even *tried* to get rid of it (don't forget Tsipras fired Varoufakis immediately when it became public he was trying to establish a shadow currency) makes me think that *they* consider it better than the alternatives.
Unstupid point: a lot of the anglophone discussion about the EU is between people who speak English. It sounds obvious, but we routinely neglect the views of the rest of the planet, who may have a different opinion. It's like the back of your head: a blind spot so big you don't notice it's there.
Indeed even at the heart of the Greek crisis there was very little support for a return to the Drachma in Greece.
Serial devaluation is not really a sign of economic success.
It beats losing 30% of GDP.
Indeed - it represents a smaller failure than that - but a failure nevertheless.
I'm warming to the Euro, mainly because it has opened up the markets of its members, making them much more export oriented recently, compared with the UK, for example. UK growth in recent years compares with the Eurozone average. There is a wide divergence within the Eurozone. The best performing countries like Germany have grown significantly more than we have.
For Euro apologists, high unemployment is a feature, not a bug. The unemployed should simply emigrate to other EU States.
Except that a number of unemployed have others to support, and don't have the language skills to move to another State as they could in the US.
Tens of millions of Spanish, Italian, Greek and Portuguese young unemployed don't think the Euro is working well for them, nor a 'Price Worth Paying' for some vague half-finished idea of a European superstate.
The issue is that a common currency needs common banking and fiscal arrangements to go with it, so that money can be redistributed towards less wealthy areas to offset the tendency for economic activity to centralise. This is what happens within every country, including the UK, and externally directed financial support has been tremendously successful in Europe twice before - the Marshall Plan after the Second World War, and the support directed to former communist Eastern Europe after the wall fell in 1989. And of course the integration of former East Germany into the FDR. The mistake with the Euro was to do the currency bit first, hoping that the rest would follow. If it had all come together, history may well have judged it as a third success in levelling up prosperity across the continent. Doing half the job and hoping the rest will happen later has, so far, turned out to be a serious mistake.
Completely right. Maybe the Eurocrats were hoping that the sight of poor Spanish and Italians might make the Germans want to put their hands in their pockets.
The basic problem with the EU is that it's evolved at a speed much faster that the people agreed to. There is no European demos, hence the Brexit vote and the problems facing the Eurozone. The insistence by the elites that the only way is forward, isn't helping things either.
We see a big boost in our exports from when we joined the EU, plateauing afterwards. The Eurozone saw a bigger boost in their exports from the start of the EMU in 1990.
As I seemed to have been marked down as a deranged Euro Federalist, I should note I have somewhat changed my mind about the Euro,from the facts. The chart I referenced above was interesting and unexpected to me. If you are not open to facts and debate, what's the point? It doesn't mean the Euro doesn't have downsides.
And all of that additional export capacity has resulted in precisely zero additional growth, in fact it has dragged on their economies and made them more susceptible to strengthening of the currency, locking the whole bloc into a cycle of low interest rates and low yield growth. Something they have had since 2010 and will not break out of.
Moreover, the Euro doesn't even succeed in the way that you credit it with: data from 2013 (source: https://www.quandl.com/collections/economics/exports-as-share-of-gdp-by-country ) shows that exports as a percentage of GDP had grown by a similar, modest amount in France, Italy and the UK over the preceding decade. In fact, the increase in the UK's value for this metric was actually slightly greater than that for those states in Latin Europe who supposedly have the Euro to thank for a boom in their export trade.
That's because you picked out the least improving Eurozone countries to compare Britain against. Not very aspirational if you don't mind me saying so. Why can't we expect the UK to do as well as Germany, Austria, the Netherlands etc?
Against the Eurozone as a whole since the beginning of time:
We see a big boost in our exports from when we joined the EU, plateauing afterwards. The Eurozone saw a bigger boost in their exports from the start of the EMU in 1990.
Mr. Barnesian, I disagree. My view is that the vast majority of those who voted to leave the EU would not want it handling our trade deals with the rest of the world.
Yes - maybe your view of what people thought is right - maybe not but it sounds like you're advocating more referendums
Remember when the Times used to be the newspaper of record....
Fantastic anecdote in Rachel Sylvester and Alice Thomson’s The Times puff piece for Theresa May this morning. Only snag, it didn’t happen, the PM has not been to the White House yet…
Oh dear oh dear. Did they not think someone might check such minor details such as the PM visiting the White House? The decline of quality journalism continues unabated.
The thing is it isn't even something that is debatable. When we get tales of what was said at a private meeting or dinner its he said she said, but giving a story of a meeting that is easy to check if it took place...Its Johann Hari stuff....
Johann Hari would have given Theresa May's first hand account of the White House meeting.
I'm warming to the Euro, mainly because it has opened up the markets of its members, making them much more export oriented recently, compared with the UK, for example. UK growth in recent years compares with the Eurozone average. There is a wide divergence within the Eurozone. The best performing countries like Germany have grown significantly more than we have.
Moreover, the Euro doesn't even succeed in the way that you credit it with: data from 2013 (source: https://www.quandl.com/collections/economics/exports-as-share-of-gdp-by-country ) shows that exports as a percentage of GDP had grown by a similar, modest amount in France, Italy and the UK over the preceding decade. In fact, the increase in the UK's value for this metric was actually slightly greater than that for those states in Latin Europe who supposedly have the Euro to thank for a boom in their export trade.
There is a wide divergence in economic performance within the Eurozone primarily because of the existence of the Euro. The fundamental flaws inherent in its design make failure inevitable. Absent the huge steps towards political union and a common treasury needed to correct those flaws, it is not only morally imperative but a matter of common sense that the whole Euro project be put out of its misery.
For Euro apologists, high unemployment is a feature, not a bug. The unemployed should simply emigrate to other EU States.
Except that a number of unemployed have others to support, and don't have the language skills to move to another State as they could in the US.
Tens of millions of Spanish, Italian, Greek and Portuguese young unemployed don't think the Euro is working well for them, nor a 'Price Worth Paying' for some vague half-finished idea of a European superstate.
And yet poll after poll shows strong support for the EU in those countries.
We see a big boost in our exports from when we joined the EU, plateauing afterwards. The Eurozone saw a bigger boost in their exports from the start of the EMU in 1990.
As I seemed to have been marked down as a deranged Euro Federalist, I should note I have somewhat changed my mind about the Euro,from the facts. The chart I referenced above was interesting and unexpected to me. If you are not open to facts and debate, what's the point? It doesn't mean the Euro doesn't have downsides.
And all of that additional export capacity has resulted in precisely zero additional growth, in fact it has dragged on their economies and made them more susceptible to strengthening of the currency, locking the whole bloc into a cycle of low interest rates and low yield growth. Something they have had since 2010 and will not break out of.
Growth rates are similar to ours over the period. So not WORSE, but you are right, the export growth hasn't IMPROVED GDP growth overall.
There are clearly other factors at play that are open to interpretation. My guess is that adjustment costs from the introduction of the Euro weigh in on the GDP figures. If so, there should be an improvement going forward. I don't know. In market terms Eurozone countries are now in a better place than we are, but it's not the whole picture
I'm warming to the Euro, mainly because it has opened up the markets of its members, making them much more export oriented recently, compared with the UK, for example. UK growth in recent years compares with the Eurozone average. There is a wide divergence within the Eurozone. The best performing countries like Germany have grown significantly more than we have.
Moreover, the Euro doesn't even succeed in the way that you credit it with: data from 2013 (source: https://www.quandl.com/collections/economics/exports-as-share-of-gdp-by-country ) shows that exports as a percentage of GDP had grown by a similar, modest amount in France, Italy and the UK over the preceding decade. In fact, the increase in the UK's value for this metric was actually slightly greater than that for those states in Latin Europe who supposedly have the Euro to thank for a boom in their export trade.
There is a wide divergence in economic performance within the Eurozone primarily because of the existence of the Euro. The fundamental flaws inherent in its design make failure inevitable. Absent the huge steps towards political union and a common treasury needed to correct those flaws, it is not only morally imperative but a matter of common sense that the whole Euro project be put out of its misery.
For Euro apologists, high unemployment is a feature, not a bug. The unemployed should simply emigrate to other EU States.
Except that a number of unemployed have others to support, and don't have the language skills to move to another State as they could in the US.
Tens of millions of Spanish, Italian, Greek and Portuguese young unemployed don't think the Euro is working well for them, nor a 'Price Worth Paying' for some vague half-finished idea of a European superstate.
And yet poll after poll shows strong support for the EU in those countries.
Because the EU, if not the Euro, has been very good news for most of them.
But the one you missed was the idea that we are weighed down in EU regulation. I think there's very little evidence of that, especially given our opt-outs.
The EU directive on GMOs is essentially preventing any commercialization of synthetic biology. Synthetic biology - the biological revolution - is supposed to be the next great economic revolution, akin to the electronic and then IT revolutions. The EU, despite a very strong research position, is simply not placed to exploit its technology.
Another EU directive coming into force this year essentially bans the production of the chemical that is the basis of disinfection in hospitals and laboratories. Expect hospital-acquired (nosocomial) and laboratory-acquired infections to increase once this directive enters into force. The sad thing is that the hospital and laboratory community was not even aware, let alone involved, in the development of the regulation until it was too late to stop, as it was seen as an environmental issue. And good luck with rolling back such EU regulation once the negative impacts are felt.
These are just two I know about in my specific area of expertise
I am sure there are unwelcome regulations from the EU. But the point is this. There's a large consensus on the problems with the U.K. economy - low productivity, a low-skilled workforce, poor infrastructure, the price of housing, and a failure by British business to invest for the long term.
None of these have anything to do with the EU.
What bugs me is that (some) Brexiteers think that leaving the EU is a magic bullet. Rather, on balance the economic effect is likely to be negative.
And it will not solve the actual problems listed above.
Comments
If DB blows up in an almighty mess it might slightly take the shine off.
Unstupid point: a lot of the anglophone discussion about the EU is between people who speak English. It sounds obvious, but we routinely neglect the views of the rest of the planet, who may have a different opinion. It's like the back of your head: a blind spot so big you don't notice it's there.
Murder far worse for blacks under Obama https://t.co/7izDeZCnq8 https://t.co/AEepQXeqyT
Serial devaluation is not really a sign of economic success.
http://www.thewrap.com/fox-news-sean-hannity-tops-key-demo-cnn-september-ratings/
With “Hannity” leading the way, Fox News Channel had seven of the Top 10 programs on cable news for the month of September. “The O’Reilly Factor” follows “Hannity” and “The Kelly File,” giving Fox News’ primetime lineup a sweep of the top three.
MSNBC’s “The Rachel Maddow Show” and Fox News’ “Special Report with Bret Baier” round out the top five. CNN’s most-watched show among the key demo was “CNN Tonight with Don Lemon,” which averaged 339,000 demo viewers to finish ninth overall.
Very likely now that Kingdom Asunder will be out before the end of the year. Got technical fiddlery and irksome marketing stuff to try and work out, but I've got all the ingredients necessary for cooking up a delicious story of blood and betrayal.
Another EU directive coming into force this year essentially bans the production of the chemical that is the basis of disinfection in hospitals and laboratories. Expect hospital-acquired (nosocomial) and laboratory-acquired infections to increase once this directive enters into force. The sad thing is that the hospital and laboratory community was not even aware, let alone involved, in the development of the regulation until it was too late to stop, as it was seen as an environmental issue. And good luck with rolling back such EU regulation once the negative impacts are felt.
These are just two I know about in my specific area of expertise
But you can buy multiple copies to earn the favour of Moses, Jesus, Mohammed, Buddha and the Flying Spaghetti Monster.
I suspect DB fallout will have a smaller effect on Eurozone economies than Brexit will have on ours. We'll see.
There are trebuchet references. Not sure if they're in the book (I started writing it in 2013), but scorpions are [think a crossbow on steroids].
Lots of gangs have horrific joining rituals. Leaving aside that now they'd be filmed on phones and potentially used as blackmail threats, the horrendous ordeal was designed to make membership desirable and the prospect of leaving difficult.
After all, if membership requires great pain, it must be worth having, right? And if you've gone through hell, do you want to leave and have that hell all be for nothing?
"you certainly can’t argue that Donald Trump doesn’t represent change. We’re just hoping people realize it’s the kind of change you get if you decide to remove the trash by driving a bulldozer through the kitchen."
- My Turnips will die with you!
But if the purpose is to bind people into irreversible political union, well economic hardship just doesn't matter.
Of course Germany has done better than us. Notwithstanding the fact that it was well managed and extremely good at export manufacturing long before the Euro was conceived of, it has also benefitted enormously from what amounts to a huge competitive devaluation *within* the Eurozone itself since it was formed (I've not the space to explain here, but further details are available from http://www.cer.org.uk/insights/eurozones-ruinous-embrace-competitive-devaluation ) This effectively allows Germany to export cheaply to fellow Eurozone members and to hollow out their industrial bases accordingly - even though most of these countries are less well off than Germany is, and would be able under normal circumstances to rely on changes in the relative value of sovereign currencies to correct this problem.
Germany is much the largest economy in the Eurozone, and its relatively strong performance therefore makes the overall performance of the whole single currency area appear an awful lot better than it actually is. The further "opening up" of the Eurozone's economies to each other certainly hasn't benefitted all equally. Italy's GDP has barely grown at all, in real terms, since it joined the single currency in 1999, and it now has the third largest sovereign debt market in the world. Unemployment currently runs at 10% in France, 11% in Italy, 12% in Portugal, 20% in Spain and 24% in Greece. In all of these countries, youth unemployment is drastically worse, reaching 39% in Italy, 44% in Spain and 50% in Greece.
Moreover, the Euro doesn't even succeed in the way that you credit it with: data from 2013 (source: https://www.quandl.com/collections/economics/exports-as-share-of-gdp-by-country ) shows that exports as a percentage of GDP had grown by a similar, modest amount in France, Italy and the UK over the preceding decade. In fact, the increase in the UK's value for this metric was actually slightly greater than that for those states in Latin Europe who supposedly have the Euro to thank for a boom in their export trade.
There is a wide divergence in economic performance within the Eurozone primarily because of the existence of the Euro. The fundamental flaws inherent in its design make failure inevitable. Absent the huge steps towards political union and a common treasury needed to correct those flaws, it is not only morally imperative but a matter of common sense that the whole Euro project be put out of its misery.
Using your logic you could argue that having voted to leave the EU, it's not legitimate for us to continue to trade with the EU. Come on.
Diane James would love your answer. I suspect the electorate would not.
However as a directive proposed by the undemocratic commission it is nodded through as secondary legislation under the EEC Act 1972 with MPs told that it would be 'an abuse of process' to oppose it.
It makes my blood boil - or at least it would have done until June 24th when I discovered a majority of my fellow British citizens felt the same way and were not prepared to put up with this state of affairs any longer. Now I juat grimace then sigh "Thank Goodness" when I read things like that.
If we leave the customs union we will be faced by a lot more cost and bureaucracy. Most leavers wouldn't advocate that if they want to reduce bureaucracy.
Boing Cuckoo Boing Cuckoo Boing Cuckoo Boing Cuckoo for about a minute.
A bit like listening to Jeremy at the Labour Conference.
Also its wings are a bit odd, they are more like my spaniels ears than wings.
Plenty left over at the shop last night. They are not selling all that fast.
I agree that the aim of driving the peoples of Europe towards a federation that few of them wanted - over the prone corpses of their nation states and their democratic will - is abhorrent. But if those doing the driving think that the plan is coming together then they're liable to be disabused of the notion. The Euro cannot be made to work without political union, but the member state governments - even those still consisting of politicians who persist in thinking that this is a desirable objective - seem to lack the ability to get there. Absent political union, surely all they can do is keep on managing the crisis until the Euro eventually collapses?
Unfortunately they didnt notice when they recorded it that another cuckoo was cuckooing back at it. So every time it cuckoos there is a slightly fainter response cuckoo afterwards so at ten oclock you actually get twenty cuckoos. Ten loud and ten not so loud 'echoes'.
It is quite cute though, even if it is an albino starling with a red beak and spaniel ears that cant count.
Fantastic anecdote in Rachel Sylvester and Alice Thomson’s The Times puff piece for Theresa May this morning. Only snag, it didn’t happen, the PM has not been to the White House yet…
http://order-order.com/2016/10/01/may-not-true/
Tens of millions of Spanish, Italian, Greek and Portuguese young unemployed don't think the Euro is working well for them, nor a 'Price Worth Paying' for some vague half-finished idea of a European superstate.
That means it's a hive of activity all over the place. But, sadly, the great noble creature it once was has long since departed, only the rotting hulk is left behind.
There was an hilarious video of an attempt to dispose of a similar carcass in the US, with dynamite. An on-looker described how the carnival atmosphere amongst spectators changed instantly to terror & panic as the huge chunks of debris came raining down on them, instead of being blown out to sea. Hilarious to watch, but glad I wasn't there - one chunk flattened a car.
Let's hope Mrs May doesn't go for a dynamite Brexit.
(Good afternoon, everyone)
Against the Eurozone as a whole since the beginning of time:
http://data.worldbank.org/indicator/NE.EXP.GNFS.ZS?locations=XC-GB
We see a big boost in our exports from when we joined the EU, plateauing afterwards. The Eurozone saw a bigger boost in their exports from the start of the EMU in 1990.
(edited to add: cue for a run on them, sold out in minutes?)
More than a hundred people demonstrated at London's Heathrow Airport on Saturday, including dozens who took part in a 'die-in' at one terminal,
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3817298/Over-100-people-stage-die-Heathrow-s-Terminal-2-plans-runway.html
http://tinyurl.com/hogthlv
The Hungarians don't like Asians - c.f. an Anglo-Indian forced out of his home by racists (and no police support) - so why do real ones expect better? I wonder ifthe pretentious, pompous plastics pontificate about BrExit whilst plactating plebescites pandering to their neighbour plebes inner-self...?
Edit:
Wurd-oft-da'-day: magniloquent.
On topic, there do seem to be three distinct voting blocs at the moment. Around 40% are in the Conservative camp, 30% or so in the Labour camp and 30% elsewhere. For the first time in years, both the two main party blocs are under pressure and possible further fragmentation from both to the "elsewhere" bloc seems possible.
The two main parties are of course mutually re-enforcing - the vote of one is often the outcome of fear of the other - but the coming of Corbyn creates the nightmare for the Conservatives if the fear of letting in Labour is no longer seen as realistic. If one of the reasons for voting Conservative - to prevent Labour from getting power - ceases to exist, what then is the reason for supporting the blue team ?
The Conservatives have to continue to promulgate the "threat" of Labour even if the actual prospect of a Labour Government is remote. This provides the "elsewhere" parties with a quandary - being too close to Labour re-enforces the Conservative charge that Labour could be let in through the back door. On the other hand, what's the point of being Conservative-lite ?
The basic problem with the EU is that it's evolved at a speed much faster that the people agreed to. There is no European demos, hence the Brexit vote and the problems facing the Eurozone. The insistence by the elites that the only way is forward, isn't helping things either.
The GDP per capita figure from the start of the EZ is interesting.
The UK is up 65%
The EZ is up 59%
Even Greece is up 49%
Northern EZ countries seem to have done well: eg Belgium up 73%, France up 61% and Ireland a whopping 95%
There are clearly other factors at play that are open to interpretation. My guess is that adjustment costs from the introduction of the Euro weigh in on the GDP figures. If so, there should be an improvement going forward. I don't know. In market terms Eurozone countries are now in a better place than we are, but it's not the whole picture
http://data.worldbank.org/indicator/NY.GDP.PCAP.PP.CD?end=2015&locations=XC-GB&start=1990
None of these have anything to do with the EU.
What bugs me is that (some) Brexiteers think that leaving the EU is a magic bullet. Rather, on balance the economic effect is likely to be negative.
And it will not solve the actual problems listed above.