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  • glassfetglassfet Posts: 220

    Paywall

    George Osborne is coming under mounting pressure from the Tory Right to restrict child benefit to two children per family.

    @TelePolitics 11h
    Blog: Welfare didn't make Philpott a monster. But it does allow bad people to go on being bad http://tgr.ph/13QKCKY
  • Socrates said:

    Socrates said:

    Mr Dancer, I can give you a brief and succinct summary on Napoleon, saving you having to read the book.

    Napoleon suffered from what is known as "The John Bercow Complex"

    Napoleon managed to unite most of Europe against, proving everyone hates the frogs.

    His only redeeming feature, he inspired ABBA's second greatest ever song.

    Second? What's their greatest song?
    Dancing Queen.

    Third is Mamma Mia
    That you can get those incessant nerve-grating melodies stuck in my head just by mentioning their titles shows how annoying a curse on music those Swedish airheads were.
    You really do have appallingly bad taste in music.
    Neil McCormick described them well:

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/journalists/neil-mccormick/3557871/Abba-no-thank-you-for-the-music.html
    The success of the Stage Show and the film Mamma Mia proves ABBA's magnificence.

    Next you'll be saying Hannibal was a brilliant general
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 51,857

    @Morris_Dancer

    "If he'd copied Hannibal he would have launched a surprise attack into South Korea and won a series of dazzling victories."

    HA! An admission at last that Hannibal had the strategic genius of a mentally retarded gerbil. Winning dazzling victories but losing the war is not the sign of a great leader.

    " I need to read some more history"

    Correct, and you could start with how Hannibal ended up as some Levantine's bitch, before he topped himself, probably out of shame.

    Like Scipio, I lured Mr Dancer to his doom.
    *Sniggers*

    I saw his silly comment on All Fools Day about you and I, Mr. Eagles.

    Grammar di Canio mode:

    "about you and me, Mr. Eagles." surely!!!
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,794
    Mr. Eagles, Gallia Narbonensis was conquered long before Caesar arrived.

    I also don't recall him conquering Germania.

    Not made much progress (around 1796) but the French did successfully beat back basically all of Europe.

    Mr. Socrates, I pity the fool who underestimates Hannibal.

    Mr. Llama, Hannibal lacked the ultimate executive authority that Alexander and Caesar enjoyed. Scipio also did, but he was backed up not only by his own immense personal talents but also by the most rock-solid and pragmatic nation in the world at the time. If Hannibal had been Roman there would scarcely have been a province left for the empire to conquer.

    I'm aware of Hannibal's later career (and I'm not sure choosing death at an old age is worse than being murdered by your own side). You forgot to mention his brilliant snakes on a ship ploy.
  • MonksfieldMonksfield Posts: 2,806

    @Lucian

    "I've not deserted Oscar Whisky."

    I have. It ran a shocker at Cheltenham. There's been no explanation. Can't forgive him that.

    Do I chase my Cheltenham losses on Zarkandar? Decisions! Anyway I will be there tomorrow. Always do the first day.


  • Mr. Llama, Hannibal lacked the ultimate executive authority that Alexander and Caesar enjoyed.

    The reason he wasn't given ultimate executive authority was because everyone knew he was crap.

    If he had that authority, he'd have led the Carthaginians to even bigger ass whooping in the Punic Wars.
  • MikeKMikeK Posts: 9,053
    @JosiasJessop

    "The north could have 700,000 troops and 2,000 tanks within 100km of the DMZ ".

    I wonder if Cammo would be willing to help out S. Korea if attacked.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,794
    Important research questions:
    Would rum feel out of place in a pre-industrial (largely medieval but not wedded to that era or its tech) fantasy?

    How strong, roughly, is rum? I'm guessing it's comparable to whisky.
  • philiphphiliph Posts: 4,704
    edited April 2013
    tim said:

    Jim Pickard ‏@PickardJE 3h
    2015 political battleground summarised: Tories want to kill Labour on benefits. Labour hope to kill Tories on NHS.


    Thats where the Tories need a new leader.

    Replaying David Cameron using his family to lie about an NHS reorganisation.
    Using his disabled son then breaking his word.

    NHS. Glass houses. Stones. Sticky wicket. Labour.

    Labour are proved to be dire at management of NHS. Tory changes are yet to be judged on experience.

    Careful what you wish for.
  • AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    Why are the German Social Democrats proving to be so unpopular? The latest opinion poll puts them on just 24% which is barely any improvement on the 23% they polled at the last election in 2009.
  • SocratesSocrates Posts: 10,322

    The success of the Stage Show and the film Mamma Mia proves ABBA's magnificence.

    Next you'll be saying Hannibal was a brilliant general

    No amount of 50 year old housewives with bingo wings or drunk northern chavettes turning up to the theatre for an out of tune sing song can justify anyone's magnificence. Certainly not a band who have the lyrics "feel the beat from the tambourine" in their supposed greatest song.

  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,059
    PeterthePunter - It appealed more to Democrats during the 'war on terror' which is now becoming largely yesterday's news. However, I think Paul could well take third in 2016 with the main race, in my view, probably boiling down to whichever conservative wins Iowa against Christie who should win NH, with the conservative eventually winning the nomination this time after 2 moderates won in 2008 and 2012!
  • IOSIOS Posts: 1,450
    PhilipH

    Nonsense. When Labour left office the NHS had its highest ever approval ratings.
  • Socrates said:

    The success of the Stage Show and the film Mamma Mia proves ABBA's magnificence.

    Next you'll be saying Hannibal was a brilliant general

    No amount of 50 year old housewives with bingo wings or drunk northern chavettes turning up to the theatre for an out of tune sing song can justify anyone's magnificence. Certainly not a band who have the lyrics "feel the beat from the tambourine" in their supposed greatest song.

    I think I've seen the play Mamma Mia at least 30 times, I can't remember many 50 year old housewives with bingo wings or drunk northern chavettes there.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,647
    edited April 2013
    David Cameron: 'to axe Trident would put us in danger'

    David Cameron warns today that it would be “foolish” for Britain even to consider abandoning Trident because the country faces an increased threat of nuclear attack from regimes such as North Korea.

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/defence/9970393/David-Cameron-to-axe-Trident-would-put-us-in-danger.html

    Dave's piece here

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/david-cameron/9969596/We-need-a-nuclear-deterrent-more-than-ever.html
  • HurstLlamaHurstLlama Posts: 9,098
    Oh, Mr Dancer give it up. Hannibal lost! He was a loser.

    I see you are now staring to make excuses for another loser, Bonaparte. Perhaps its something in your diet. Perhaps more tripe and black-pudding?

    Anyway, when is Altmoris coming out? I have been following your twitter feeds and am starting to worry that you are losing focus.
  • @Lucian

    "I've not deserted Oscar Whisky."

    I have. It ran a shocker at Cheltenham. There's been no explanation. Can't forgive him that.

    Do I chase my Cheltenham losses on Zarkandar? Decisions! Anyway I will be there tomorrow. Always do the first day.

    Good luck!

    Should be a great day's racing.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,794
    Mr. Llama, I've deliberately been avoiding any specifics.

    I'm still confident it'll be out in the first half of this year.

    I'd add that I'm only up to 1796, and wasn't commenting on Bonaparte's own achievements but the general success from Revolution to that date of the French in seeing off almost all of Europe.

    Did you read TA Dodge's work on Caesar? Fascinating stuff, and my favourite chapter was at the end where he compared Alexander, Hannibal and Caesar.
  • SocratesSocrates Posts: 10,322

    Socrates said:

    The success of the Stage Show and the film Mamma Mia proves ABBA's magnificence.

    Next you'll be saying Hannibal was a brilliant general

    No amount of 50 year old housewives with bingo wings or drunk northern chavettes turning up to the theatre for an out of tune sing song can justify anyone's magnificence. Certainly not a band who have the lyrics "feel the beat from the tambourine" in their supposed greatest song.

    I think I've seen the play Mamma Mia at least 30 times, I can't remember many 50 year old housewives with bingo wings or drunk northern chavettes there.
    I just typed "ABBA fans" into Google. This was the first image that came up:

    http://img.thesun.co.uk/multimedia/archive/00914/SNA2318_682_1__914041a.jpg
  • corporealcorporeal Posts: 2,549

    Important research questions:
    Would rum feel out of place in a pre-industrial (largely medieval but not wedded to that era or its tech) fantasy?

    How strong, roughly, is rum? I'm guessing it's comparable to whisky.

    Depend on the setting, rum is sugarcane and drinks similar to it have been around for centuries if not millennia. It's associated with coming in in a particular era for us because that's when we started major contact with places with sugarcane. Might need a line of exposition more than wine, but I'd roll with it.

    Rum is about the same as whisky, or erm, so I've heard.
  • TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633
    Conhome joins the Observer and Guido in highlighting the non non non story of rEd and Hollande's axis of crap.

    http://conservativehome.blogs.com/leftwatch/2013/04/the-tories-must-make-francois-hollande-the-running-mate-for-ed-miliband-in-2015.html
  • fitalassfitalass Posts: 4,303
    IOS said:

    PhilipH

    Nonsense. When Labour left office the NHS had its highest ever approval ratings.

    Stafford Hospital Scandal happened under the last Labour Government.

  • tim said:

    "“Last year North Korea unveiled a long-range ballistic missile which it claims can reach the whole of the United States. If this became a reality it would also affect the whole of Europe, including the UK. "

    David Cameron, your speechwriters are morons

    Does he mention 45mins at all?
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,794
    Thanks, Mr. Corporeal :)

    Sugar cane, eh? Not sure that fits the northern Britain type climate I had in mind. However, if necessary the ingredients or drink itself can be imported from a conveniently located island. Cheers.
  • IOSIOS Posts: 1,450
    Fitalass using peoples deaths for political advantage. What a surprise. You are a very sick women.

  • AveryLPAveryLP Posts: 7,815
    edited April 2013
    IOS said:

    When Labour left office the NHS had its highest ever approval ratings.

    Was the satisfaction survey carried out in Stafford after Labour had buried the patients, IOS?

    Using soft approval ratings to judge Labour's performance on health provision when the hard data from the Francis report is now available is akin to dancing on the graves of Labour's victims.

  • Socrates said:

    Socrates said:

    The success of the Stage Show and the film Mamma Mia proves ABBA's magnificence.

    Next you'll be saying Hannibal was a brilliant general

    No amount of 50 year old housewives with bingo wings or drunk northern chavettes turning up to the theatre for an out of tune sing song can justify anyone's magnificence. Certainly not a band who have the lyrics "feel the beat from the tambourine" in their supposed greatest song.

    I think I've seen the play Mamma Mia at least 30 times, I can't remember many 50 year old housewives with bingo wings or drunk northern chavettes there.
    I just typed "ABBA fans" into Google. This was the first image that came up:

    http://img.thesun.co.uk/multimedia/archive/00914/SNA2318_682_1__914041a.jpg
    If I'm guest editor in the future, all Night Hawks threads will have subtle ABBA musical references in them.
  • HurstLlamaHurstLlama Posts: 9,098

    Important research questions:
    Would rum feel out of place in a pre-industrial (largely medieval but not wedded to that era or its tech) fantasy?

    How strong, roughly, is rum? I'm guessing it's comparable to whisky.

    Rum, or rumbullion o give its correct name, is a spirit made from sugar and so while it pre-dates the industrial revolution doesn't really fit into a medieval fantasy world. I'd go for "Aqua Vitae", the water of life, in your writing because that seems to have existed in various forms in just about every civilisation from the dawn of time.
  • JonathanDJonathanD Posts: 2,400
    tim said

    ""“Last year North Korea unveiled a long-range ballistic missile which it claims can reach the whole of the United States. If this became a reality it would also affect the whole of Europe, including the UK. "

    David Cameron, your speechwriters are morons"


    You do realise the London is closer to North Korea than New York. I'm not sure what you are disagreeing with.
  • IOSIOS Posts: 1,450
    Avery again with the same sick comments.

    Fortunately the public see through this nasty political game playing. People like fitalass and avery are the reason why the Tories cannot win a majority in this country.


    Vile.
  • SocratesSocrates Posts: 10,322

    Socrates said:

    Socrates said:

    The success of the Stage Show and the film Mamma Mia proves ABBA's magnificence.

    Next you'll be saying Hannibal was a brilliant general

    No amount of 50 year old housewives with bingo wings or drunk northern chavettes turning up to the theatre for an out of tune sing song can justify anyone's magnificence. Certainly not a band who have the lyrics "feel the beat from the tambourine" in their supposed greatest song.

    I think I've seen the play Mamma Mia at least 30 times, I can't remember many 50 year old housewives with bingo wings or drunk northern chavettes there.
    I just typed "ABBA fans" into Google. This was the first image that came up:

    http://img.thesun.co.uk/multimedia/archive/00914/SNA2318_682_1__914041a.jpg
    If I'm guest editor in the future, all Night Hawks threads will have subtle ABBA musical references in them.
    That made me chuckle. I'll have to think up a way to respond.
  • SocratesSocrates Posts: 10,322
    IOS said:

    Fitalass using peoples deaths for political advantage. What a surprise. You are a very sick women.

    Haven't you previously accused politicians of having blood on their hands for the Iraq War?
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,794
    Mr. Llama, as a keen reader (of the website) you may have noticed the island of Jera in the Lore section. I was planning on importing at least one sort of drink from there anyway.

    I might just make the drink in question beer, but I quite like the idea of rum. It's more distinctive and adds to the navy feel of the city in which it would be popular.
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758

    Important research questions:
    Would rum feel out of place in a pre-industrial (largely medieval but not wedded to that era or its tech) fantasy?

    How strong, roughly, is rum? I'm guessing it's comparable to whisky.

    Needs to fit the climate.

    Rum = sugarcane
    Vodka = potato or grain
    Whisky = barley
    Beer = barley + hops
  • TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633
    More than a whiff of panic from the lefties tonight - why the rumpus when rEd is nailed on to win ??
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,647
    edited April 2013
    Oh Tim, struck a nerve have I.

    Cameron maybe a crap amateur, but at least he's never invaded a country based on someone's thesis pulled from the internet.

    And perhaps you could answer JonathanD's point about London being closer to Korea than New York?
  • HurstLlamaHurstLlama Posts: 9,098
    Mr. D., I'll reply properly elsewhere and tomorrow (it is beddy-byes time down here in Sussex), but please don't make it beer. That would be very wrong.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,794
    Cheers, Mr. Charles.
  • RichardNabaviRichardNabavi Posts: 3,413
    edited April 2013
    @tim - Before you go any further with that meme, you'd better read this:

    The government's judgment, on balance, is that though the Cold War is over, we cannot be certain in the decades ahead that a major nuclear threat to our strategic interests will not emerge; that there is also a new and potentially hazardous threat from states such as North Korea which claims already to have developed nuclear weapons

    http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/6207584.stm

    Now, what were you saying about idiots in No 10 linking Trident with North Korea?
  • AveryLPAveryLP Posts: 7,815
    edited April 2013
    IOS said:

    Avery again with the same sick comments.

    Fortunately the public see through this nasty political game playing. People like fitalass and avery are the reason why the Tories cannot win a majority in this country.

    Vile.

    No, IOS, what is "vile" is Labour refusing to accept responsibility for its failings in health administration as exposed by a independent inquiry.

    Why not travel to Stafford and inform the families of your victims that evidence of your party's maladminstration should be set aside in favour of national approval ratings?

    I am sure you would receive a warm welcome.
  • JonathanDJonathanD Posts: 2,400
    @Richard

    Lets all admire Blair's foreign policy brilliance

    "Fortunately, Libya has given up its WMD ambitions and has played a positive role internationally; "
  • TGOHF said:

    More than a whiff of panic from the lefties tonight - why the rumpus when rEd is nailed on to win ??

    There's a piece in the Times which says if Ed doesn't fill that blank sheet of paper in soon, his opponents will do it for him.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,647
    edited April 2013
    A shame I won't be on PB tomorrow.

    Paywall, Cameron's travelling north of the Border on Thursday, and he's going to attack the SNP, particularly over defence.
  • perdixperdix Posts: 1,806
    @MikeK The capital city of South Korea, Seuol, is within artillery range (never mind the rockets) of the North's existing gun positions.
  • RichardNabaviRichardNabavi Posts: 3,413
    @tim - I don't really see what you are objecting to in either Blair's or Cameron's case. The whole point about Trident is that is about uncertainty, over decades, in an uncertain world. There may not seem to be any immediate threat, but who can know what might happen in twenty years' time? The argument is that new threats might appear, and the example of North Korea seems to be perfectly relevant if you're making that argument.
  • Also the front of the Independent is talking about the potential for a general strike.

    Something which according to the Times, Labour strategists don't want to happen, as it will be a gift to the Tories.
  • tim said:

    @TheScreamingEagles.

    Perhaps its best to leave Mr Darling to deal with Mr Salmond.

    Mr Cameron will just help the SNP.

    Getting rid of 40 Labour MPs, I'm sure there's a downside for Cameron somewhere.

  • fitalassfitalass Posts: 4,303
    Just for the record, I stopped mentioning the situation in Afghanistan on this site for no other reason than the sustained and unremitting smearing abuse I received from Tim. Now he tries to spin and smear that I don't post any more on the subject because the Government has changed.

    The pattern of his behaviour on this site towards certain individual posters really is the most negative aspect of the site, and its again on shown tonight by the very nasty tag effort from both IoS and Tim towards me tonight. This poster has just used the Cameron's late disabled son to attack David Cameron personally on here, that really sums up just what an unpleasant individual he really is.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,647
    edited April 2013
    "Devolution will kill Nationalism stone dead" has to be the second worst political prediction by a Labour MP ever after this?

    'Shortly there will be an election, in which Labour will increase its majority'

    http://www.newstatesman.com/blogs/conference/2007/09/labour-majority-increase
  • SocratesSocrates Posts: 10,322
    edited April 2013

    Also the front of the Independent is talking about the potential for a general strike.

    Something which according to the Times, Labour strategists don't want to happen, as it will be a gift to the Tories.

    We need to be able to sue unions for their strikes. Why is it that a shop worker can be sued for not putting out a "wet floor" sign yet the unions can deliberately bring our entire transport network to a standstill and not have to compensate anyone for it?
  • AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    "At the Library of Law and Liberty Dalrymple addresses the case of Mohamed Aziz, a Spaniard who defaulted on his mortgage yet won a case in the European Court of Justice against his lender":

    http://www.libertylawsite.org/2013/03/25/the-moral-corruption-of-fiat-money/
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216
    tim said:

    Little point in spending £20 billion to protect yourself against North Korea, give there's zero threat.

    "North Korea threats: US to move missiles to Guam"

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-22021832
  • RogerRoger Posts: 19,914
    Is there a reason why my cut and paste from Oborne's Telegraph article keeps getting deleted?
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,195
    Global warming bet alert: Paddy Power have a market up on sea ice melt at 2.63 for 2013 being a record low. Anyone know if thats a decent bet ?
  • RogerRoger Posts: 19,914
    Is Peter Oborne now on the forbidden list?
  • PBModeratorPBModerator Posts: 664
    edited April 2013
    Roger said:

    Is there a reason why my cut and paste from Oborne's Telegraph article keeps getting deleted?

    Roger, your posts is setting off the spam trap, as the article you are linking to contains references to phone hacking, a topic which is not to be discussed on PB.
  • SocratesSocrates Posts: 10,322
    Roger said:

    Is there a reason why my cut and paste from Oborne's Telegraph article keeps getting deleted?

    I'd guess it's because we're only supposed to paste snippets rather than full articles.
  • AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    edited April 2013
    Mark Ferguson at LabourList:

    "South Shields is a chance to do politics differently - why aren't we taking it?"

    http://www.labourlist.org/2013/04/south-shields-is-a-chance-to-do-politics-differently-why-arent-we-taking-it/
  • RogerRoger Posts: 19,914
    I will try again. If it disappears again could whoever is responsible come out from behind your anonymous shield and explain why?
  • RichardNabaviRichardNabavi Posts: 3,413
    edited April 2013
    Teachers locked out in industrial dispute... Neil Kinnock's daughter-in-law reveals her inner Gove:

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-22014697
  • A man in Saudi Arabia is waiting to be forcibly paralysed in punishment for a crime which left his victim in a wheelchair, it has emerged.

    When he was 14, Ali al Khawaher stabbed a friend in the spine, paralysing him from the waist down, Amnesty International said.

    The London-based human rights group said Mr al Khawaher, now 24, has spent 10 years in jail waiting to be paralysed surgically unless his family pays one million Saudi riyals (£180,000) to the victim.

    Saudi Arabia applies a form of Sharia law, which allows eye-for-an-eye punishment for crimes but allows victims to pardon convicts in exchange for so-called blood money.

    According to Amnesty, the man could be paralysed from the waist down if the sentence, which was passed in the eastern town of Al Ahsa, goes ahead.

    http://news.sky.com/story/1073634/saudi-criminal-sentenced-to-be-paralysed
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,195
    edited April 2013

    Oh Tim, struck a nerve have I.

    Cameron maybe a crap amateur, but at least he's never invaded a country based on someone's thesis pulled from the internet.

    And perhaps you could answer JonathanD's point about London being closer to Korea than New York?

    Seoul/Tokyo tho.

    Oh, have seen the point Tim was trying to make there. Haha Done up like a (U)kipper.
  • RichardNabaviRichardNabavi Posts: 3,413
    @tim - The government's fighting enough battles as it is. That particular assault on the producer interests will probably have to wait until the next term.
  • RogerRoger Posts: 19,914
    @Socrates. "I'd guess it's because we're only supposed to paste snippets rather than full articles."

    I'm all for that. I've been suggesting it for months. Unfortunately Plato just can't get the hang of it and pastes reams of other peoples articles making the site almost unnavigable,

    However this is but a tiny clip from Oborne's article
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216
    @Roger

    "David Cameron's critics are wrong. He’s on the verge of something great
    A revolution is under way in health, welfare and education that may change Britain forever"

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/david-cameron/9969582/David-Camerons-critics-are-wrong.-Hes-on-the-verge-of-something-great.html
  • AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    Anthony Wells on the Gender Gap:

    http://ukpollingreport.co.uk/blog/archives/7209
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,195
    tim said:

    @AndyJS.

    Told you so.

    And the interesting thing about the gender gap is that the polls moved on Cameron before they moved on the Tory Party.

    As the leader ratings moved on Cameron in the election run up before they did on the Tory Party

    But it's nice to see the catch-up, we'll get a compilation thread on Dave and women soon.

    Will you be authoring it ?

  • dugarbandierdugarbandier Posts: 2,596


    "North Korea threats: US to move missiles to Guam"

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-22021832

    building up arms in the pacific to counter the Chinese is part of the USA's long term planning. It might just be a convenient time/excuse to install this stuff in Guam.


  • Mr Dancer, I can give you a brief and succinct summary on Napoleon, saving you having to read the book.

    Napoleon suffered from what is known as "The John Bercow Complex"

    Napoleon managed to unite most of Europe against, proving everyone hates the frogs.

    His only redeeming feature, he inspired ABBA's second greatest ever song.

    Second? What's their greatest song?
    Dancing Queen.

    Third is Mamma Mia
    No, their greatest song is "Winner Takes It All".

    And on that bombshell, goodnight all ...

  • OK. Heard enough people tipping Countrywide Flame to get on!
  • AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    The problem isn't the Tories being unable to win a majority but rather any party being able to win one. Labour might just do it with 33% of the vote, if they're lucky.
  • MrJonesMrJones Posts: 3,523
    The biggest polling story of the last 8 years has been immigration.
  • MikeLMikeL Posts: 7,706
    Cameron should not just restrict child benefit to two children. He needs to restrict all child related benefits. Child benefit is peanuts compared to the other benefits like child tax credits.

    Per The Times Budget tables:

    Single person - Salary £10,000 - Net income £10,861

    Single person with 2 children - Salary £10,000 - Net income £20,568

    So having 2 children nets you an extra £9,707. Just £1,752 of that is Child Benefit. The remaining £7,955 is Child Tax Credits etc.

    The figures are absolutely breathtaking. Why on earth should someone with two children get an extra £9,707? That's £187 per week. Does it cost £187 per week to feed and clothe 2 children?

    The other aspect is that anyone with 2 children has almost no incentive at all to work unless they can earn a very high salary.

    Single person with 2 children - Salary £30,000 - Net income £25,968

    So earning an extra £20,000 gross salary (ie £30k instead of £10k) nets them an extra £5,400. So their tax rate from £10k to £30k is 73%.

    It is completely outrageous and needs to stop right now.
  • MikeLMikeL Posts: 7,706
    I'm not bothered about immigration.

    I am bothered about the staggering amount of money being given to people with children. A low earner with no children gets peanuts. A low earner with children is treated like royalty.

    How can this level of generosity be justified? How about we cut the benefit below from £10,568 to say £6,000. That would still be very generous.

    Plus of course the massive incentive for couples to split up or pretend to split up - depending upon Partner's salary splitting up may well be worth around £8,000.

    And then there is the collosal disincentive to work. Unless you can earn £35,000+ then you may as well just stick on £10,000.

    It's bonkers and I don't believe the public supports it.

    If people actually saw the figures I think most people would be in a state of shock at the level of generosity.
  • NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,528
    I try not to comment on other posters (and wish others on all sides would do the same) but I have to agree with TSE - Socrates is clearly a nice fellow, but he just doesn't appreciate wonderful music. As Johnson would have said, "He who tires of Abba has tired of life". :-)

    Actually, to be half serious, I think we're at cross purposes. Socrates doesn't like the lyrics. We like the music. The lyrics vary a lot in quality - as Bjorn says, in the early days their English wasn't good and they used to make up anything that rhymed (the Swedish lyrics were markedly better). But e.g. the lyrics of "When all is said and done", are as touching, gentle and civilised as any break-up song that I've ever heard:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tUh4u-lYEhM
  • john_zimsjohn_zims Posts: 3,399
    @Tim

    'In that the salience of the issue has declined (MORI issues index)'

    'Economist/Ipsos MORI March 2013 Issues Index'

    March 2013 Race relations & immigration second most important issue 29% +3.
  • MikeLMikeL Posts: 7,706
    tim - I have never heard anyone in any Party suggest that benefit levels are set (or should be set) in order to target birth rates (or implied immigration levels etc).

    I thought benefits were set by how much people were thought to need to live in an appropriately comfortable way.

    Obviously people may disagree about how much that should be - ie to be "appropriately comfortable" - but I've never heard any politician in any Party mention targeted birth rates.
  • john_zimsjohn_zims Posts: 3,399
    @Tim

    Wee Tim,that's ancient history,why not try 20 years ago that might massage the figures better.

    The issue in terms of importance to voters is still no 2 ,however much that damages your narrative and your hope that it would be the NHS instead.

    Do try to keep up.
  • MikeSmithsonMikeSmithson Posts: 7,382
    MrJones said:

    The biggest polling story of the last 8 years has been immigration.

    That is simply not the case. Check out the trend on P6 of this PDF from Ipsos-MORI.
    http://www.ipsos-mori.com/Assets/Docs/Polls/March13IssuesIndexslides.pdf

    As a general point on PB please do some research before making such assertions.

    The big polling story over the past 8 years has been the total dominance of the economy as the main issue.
  • AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    The Visitors by Abba is one of my favourite albums. Nice to see one of its tracks getting a mention on here.
  • AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    @Tim

    Yes, I used to support FPTP but don't think it's fit for purpose any more. The prospect of another majority government with the support of 35% of voters isn't very enticing, whatever it's political complexion.
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