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politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Ex-LD leader, Paddy Ashdown launches move to have one non-C

SystemSystem Posts: 11,700
edited September 2016 in General

imagepoliticalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Ex-LD leader, Paddy Ashdown launches move to have one non-CON candidate in Whitney

Intriguing move from the ex-leader of the LDS, Paddy Ashdown, this evening to have a unified non-CON candidate (presumably pro-REMAIN) to fight the Tories in the upcoming Whitney by-election. This is of course being held to fill the vacancy created by Cameron departure from the Commons.the

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Comments

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    Blue_rogBlue_rog Posts: 2,019
    First
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    Second!
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    IanB2IanB2 Posts: 47,414
    edited September 2016
    Third like the LibDems
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    Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 49,412
    edited September 2016
    Mike, you are wrong about Lab and LDs NOT standing aside at a by-election since 1997!

    How about David Davis in 2008? Haltemprice and Howden?

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haltemprice_and_Howden_by-election,_2008
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    IanB2IanB2 Posts: 47,414
    Ashdown has no track record of consulting the party before going off on manoeuvres.
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    CookieCookie Posts: 11,503
    Surely the people did have a say on Brexit? Does he not remember the referendum?
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    FloaterFloater Posts: 14,195
    Typical - anything to take a dig at the tories / cozy up to the wretched EU
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    Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    Ninth, like the Lib Dems...
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    Oh dear, Paddy still playing at Machiavelli – how did the 1997 coalition work out for you..?
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    SpeedySpeedy Posts: 12,100
    nunu said:
    And I've got important news for my average tracking poll.

    For the FIRST time Hillary and Trump are tied at 44.5 each.
    This has never happened before on my average tracking poll.
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    SpeedySpeedy Posts: 12,100
    edited September 2016
    On topic.

    Lord Ashdown, General of Crushing Defeats, has another master plan.

    So the Tories will likely get a record majority then.
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    Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 30,820
    edited September 2016
    Paddy Ashdown is, I think, making the same mistake which many people (especially, LibDems) make. People who voted Remain don't, for the most part, want to stop Brexit now: the decision has been taken, and that's it. Certainly amongst Conservatives (of whom there are lots in Witney!), I am sure that is the case.

    As for a 'say on the deal', what the hell does that mean? What if the answer is 'No, we don't like the deal' and meanwhile the Article 50 clock is ticking? Brexit means Brexit, we're leaving, on whatever terms get negotiated. In any case, you can't negotiate by referendum.

    Or, to put it more succinctly, Paddy is bonkers.
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    Stupid idea.
    The voters will punish an attempt to "game" the by-election.
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    weejonnieweejonnie Posts: 3,820
    nunu said:
    The Nevada one was conducted solely post Clinton's early retirement from the 9/11 memorial so may not be too bad for her.
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    Moses_Moses_ Posts: 4,865
    Now I know why the LibDems are so low in the polls and rightly so.

    They are quite simply just another protest group that fails to understand a democratic decision made by the people. Which is why not many people vote for them.
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    MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 37,618
    FPT

    MaxPB said:


    That system taken over four years makes a lot more sense to me than our current system of cramming for 11 GCSEs in two years then 4 A-Levels in two years with no real grounding in the A-Levels given the disparity between the difficulty of GCSEs and A-Levels.

    I'd strongly support this, so long as there is a route for all to our best universities. If you're a genius at computing, but suck (comparatively) at English, you should still be able to advance from your computing-focused senior school to Cambridge.

    Max for EdSec...
    Justine Greening looked pretty grumpy on the front bench today. If she's not turning up to QT, perhaps there will be a vacancy shortly...
    Yes, under my proposal the person you mention would go to grammar school and just have two years of English basic A-Level, plus the sciences, maths and computing the dumping English, keeping maths, physics, computing and one other subject.
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    From Politico the other day:

    OVERHEARD: Soon after David Cameron announced he was vacating his seat of Witney in the U.K. parliament, a source overheard Nigel Farage “getting very angry on the phone in the smoking booth of the European Parliament’s members’ bar.” Farage sounded keen to run for Cameron’s old seat, but the person at the other end was less than pleased, the source reports.
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    MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 37,618
    On topic, this is a stupid idea. The Lib Dems need to put the old fool out to pasture.
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    DromedaryDromedary Posts: 1,194
    edited September 2016
    Mid-prices at Betfair:

    Clinton 1.615
    Trump 3.075

    I'm not sure whether clips from Donald Trump's appearance on medic Mehmet Oz's show, to be aired tomorrow, have yet been released. Whatever the show reveals about Trump's health is likely in itself to be completely irrelevant. Hillary Clinton may or may not manage to attend an engagement or two tomorrow, but what's important is Trump's message: his health is OK and hers isn't; he can go on this kind of show and she can't or won't. So I expect these prices to change in Trump's favour today and tomorrow.
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    Black_RookBlack_Rook Posts: 8,905
    Just watching ITV News at the mo, they are reporting that May will give Hinkley Point C the go ahead shortly.
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    weejonnieweejonnie Posts: 3,820

    From Politico the other day:

    OVERHEARD: Soon after David Cameron announced he was vacating his seat of Witney in the U.K. parliament, a source overheard Nigel Farage “getting very angry on the phone in the smoking booth of the European Parliament’s members’ bar.” Farage sounded keen to run for Cameron’s old seat, but the person at the other end was less than pleased, the source reports.

    I can't imagine Farage would have a cat in hell's chance as the Tories would blame him (justly or unjustly) for the resignation of Cameron.
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    SpeedySpeedy Posts: 12,100

    Just watching ITV News at the mo, they are reporting that May will give Hinkley Point C the go ahead shortly.

    If that is true then electricity prices will go through the roof.
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    Moses_Moses_ Posts: 4,865
    Speedy said:

    On topic.

    Lord Ashdown, General of Crushing Defeats, has another master plan.

    So the Tories will likely get a record majority then.

    Hopefully Eddie Izzard will be the campaign manager. :lol:
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    john_zimsjohn_zims Posts: 3,399
    @Speedy.

    'Lord Ashdown, General of Crushing Defeats, has another master plan.

    So the Tories will likely get a record majority then.'


    Can't someone find this wally an allotment or bowls club so he can retire gracefully.

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    weejonnieweejonnie Posts: 3,820
    Speedy said:

    Just watching ITV News at the mo, they are reporting that May will give Hinkley Point C the go ahead shortly.

    If that is true then electricity prices will go through the roof.
    But we will have saved the planet - and that can't be all bad.
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    For copyright fans, the Commission has just published a proposed Copyright in the Digital Single Market Directive. The slow way in which these things work means that the UK will probably have left the EU by the time this needs to be enacted into national laws, though if we are still part of the Single Market we will have to go ahead anyway

    http://ec.europa.eu/transparency/regdoc/rep/1/2016/EN/1-2016-593-EN-F1-1.PDF
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    El_CapitanoEl_Capitano Posts: 3,879
    edited September 2016
    This is nuts. There is no chance any of the constituency parties here - Labour, LibDem, Green - will agree to it. The people I have down as favourites for Labour and LibDem candidates have a lot of respect for each other but no appetite to stand down.

    That said:

    Paddy Ashdown is, I think, making the same mistake which many people (especially, LibDems) make. People who voted Remain don't, for the most part, want to stop Brexit now: the decision has been taken, and that's it. Certainly amongst Conservatives (of whom there are lots in Witney!), I am sure that is the case.

    It isn't the case among the Labour or LibDem voters that I know here in Witney; I suspect you are right with some Conservatives but certainly not all of my acquaintance. Anecdotes are of course not data but in the absence of polling or any other Witney PBers that's all I have...
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    DromedaryDromedary Posts: 1,194
    edited September 2016
    weejonnie said:

    Speedy said:

    Just watching ITV News at the mo, they are reporting that May will give Hinkley Point C the go ahead shortly.

    If that is true then electricity prices will go through the roof.
    But we will have saved the planet - and that can't be all bad.
    Why might it be that nuclear power stations aren't built in city centres or somewhere else that's surrounded by lots of land on all sides? They're safe, they're clean as a whistle, they end dependency on Russian gas bosses, they're green, they're fluffy, they're friendly, they give free tours around the clock (except if you're carrying a Geiger counter), they save loads of public money (sure they do - and any that's not spent on reducing waiting times for operations will be given out in free fivers to all comers), and they're the future, right? There's been no pro-nuclear public relations spend of any kind. "Energy mix" is an unloaded term, and environmentalists are being public-spirited when they say stop the oiks breeding "put coal on the dole".
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    Black_RookBlack_Rook Posts: 8,905

    Paddy Ashdown is, I think, making the same mistake which many people (especially, LibDems) make. People who voted Remain don't, for the most part, want to stop Brexit now: the decision has been taken, and that's it. Certainly amongst Conservatives (of whom there are lots in Witney!), I am sure that is the case.

    Exactly. It's the classic fanatics' error of assuming that your obsession is just as important to everyone else as it is to yourself. I suspect that most of those who voted in the referendum - and especially those who ended up on the Remain side - made pragmatic choices based upon weighing the arguments, and then accepted the decision of the majority quietly and without fuss.

    Imagining that the 48% will all be desperate to vote for a Remain Unity candidate is like expecting all of the voters who backed all of the losing parties in a General Election to turn up to a mass rally demanding another ballot. It's delusional and it's crackers.
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    AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    Witney was 53/47 Remain in the referendum.
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    SpeedySpeedy Posts: 12,100
    edited September 2016
    I have now completed the survey that ties my average tracking poll to the swing states.

    This is the position of each state in reference to my average tracking poll.

    Hillary lead of 8: Missouri, Georgia, Arizona tied.
    Hillary +7: Maine CD-2 tied.
    Hillary +6: none
    Hillary +5: Nebraska CD-2, Iowa tied.
    Hillary +4: Nevada tied.
    Hillary +3: Florida, N.Carolina tied.
    Hillary +2: Ohio tied.
    Hillary +1: none
    Tie : none
    Trump lead of 1: Wisconsin tied.
    Trump +2: Michigan tied.
    Trump +3: N.Hampshire, Pennsylvania, Maine tied.
    Trump +4: N.Mexico tied.
    Trump +5: None
    Trump +6: Colorado, Virginia tied.
    Trump +7: None
    Trump +8: Oregon tied.

    The winning post is Wisconsin for now.
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    AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    Clinton's lead now 2%:

    http://www.realclearpolitics.com/
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    MikeLMikeL Posts: 7,311
    edited September 2016
    Someone asked the following question late last night:

    Old boundaries - Lab needs 13% lead for a majority
    New boundaries - Lab needs 14% lead for a majority

    Also:

    New boundaries - Con needs 2% lead for a majority

    New boundaries - Lab needs 6% lead for Con & Lab to be level on seats

    May surely has to pull out every single thing she can to get this through.

    http://www.ncpolitics.uk/2016/09/first-look-at-the-boundary-review.html/
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    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 117,131
    Unlikely, Tim Farron interview today 'He virtually ruled out ever going into a coalition with Mr Corbyn, saying: “Could I see myself doing it? I can’t.”

    Mr Farron accused Labour’s leadership of being “more content with feeling good about themselves than doing good”, adding: “I think there is nothing grubby about winning elections.” '
    http://www.standard.co.uk/news/politics/tim-farron-i-want-to-park-lib-dem-tanks-on-the-tories-lawn-a3344426.html
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    Black_RookBlack_Rook Posts: 8,905
    Speedy said:

    Just watching ITV News at the mo, they are reporting that May will give Hinkley Point C the go ahead shortly.

    If that is true then electricity prices will go through the roof.
    Seems unlikely given that it's only meant to supply (if memory serves) about 8% if UK electricity demand.

    I take your point that it's an expensive form of generation, but I think May has probably called this one right. Nuclear provides reliable base load, whilst reducing our reliance on imported fuel and contributing towards decarbonisation, and it'll help keep the lights on. I also imagine that the Government doesn't want to piss off the Chinese, and doesn't wish to take a gamble on whether or not large scale, efficient storage capacity - allowing renewables to plug the supply gap - is developed before other forms of generation really begin to run down.
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    Paddy Ashdown is, I think, making the same mistake which many people (especially, LibDems) make. People who voted Remain don't, for the most part, want to stop Brexit now: the decision has been taken, and that's it. Certainly amongst Conservatives (of whom there are lots in Witney!), I am sure that is the case.

    But the polls don't support this view at all. The YouGov poll showed support for Leave and Remain almost unchanged from the Referendum.
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    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,986

    Speedy said:

    Just watching ITV News at the mo, they are reporting that May will give Hinkley Point C the go ahead shortly.

    If that is true then electricity prices will go through the roof.
    Seems unlikely given that it's only meant to supply (if memory serves) about 8% if UK electricity demand.

    I take your point that it's an expensive form of generation, but I think May has probably called this one right. Nuclear provides reliable base load, whilst reducing our reliance on imported fuel and contributing towards decarbonisation, and it'll help keep the lights on. I also imagine that the Government doesn't want to piss off the Chinese, and doesn't wish to take a gamble on whether or not large scale, efficient storage capacity - allowing renewables to plug the supply gap - is developed before other forms of generation really begin to run down.
    This really isn't the case, @rcs1000 will enlighten with the figures.
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    So just in one day the EU has confirmed it wants an army and this insane and unenforcable outside the EU link copyright ruling which will damage the digital sector within it.

    Imagine today if Remain had won...
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    SandpitSandpit Posts: 49,941
    Can't Pantsdown just leave the stage gracefully? He's been wrong about everything for at least 30 years now.
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    DromedaryDromedary Posts: 1,194
    edited September 2016
    (deleted)
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    JonathanDJonathanD Posts: 2,400
    Dromedary said:

    weejonnie said:

    Speedy said:

    Just watching ITV News at the mo, they are reporting that May will give Hinkley Point C the go ahead shortly.

    If that is true then electricity prices will go through the roof.
    But we will have saved the planet - and that can't be all bad.
    Why might it be that nuclear power stations aren't built in city centres or somewhere else that's surrounded by lots of land on all sides? ".
    They require cooling water so need to be located next to large sources like rivers or the sea.
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    AndyJS said:

    Witney was 53/47 Remain in the referendum.

    Same as Newham in east London - go figure....
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    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,986
    Dromedary said:

    Speedy said:

    I have now completed the survey that ties my average tracking poll to the swing states.

    This is the position of each state in reference to my average tracking poll.

    Hillary lead of 8: Missouri, Georgia, Arizona tied.
    Hillary +7: Maine CD-2 tied.
    Hillary +6: none
    Hillary +5: Nebraska CD-2, Iowa tied.
    Hillary +4: Nevada tied.
    Hillary +3: Florida, N.Carolina tied.
    Hillary +2: Ohio tied.
    Hillary +1: none
    Tie : none
    Trump lead of 1: Wisconsin tied.
    Trump +2: Michigan tied.
    Trump +3: N.Hampshire, Pennsylvania, Maine tied.
    Trump +4: N.Mexico tied.
    Trump +5: None
    Trump +6: Colorado, Virginia tied.
    Trump +7: None
    Trump +8: Oregon tied.

    The winning post is Wisconsin for now.

    Sorry for being dense. Your latest average figures are Hillary 44.5%, Trump 43%; how to read a line such as "Trump +8: Oregon tied"?
    Hillary +1.5 = Trump narrowly wins Ohio, but loses the electoral college.

    Simples.
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    Moses_ said:

    Now I know why the LibDems are so low in the polls and rightly so.

    They are quite simply just another protest group that fails to understand a democratic decision made by the people. Which is why not many people vote for them.

    It is a shame because classic liberalism of the orange book variety has much more to offer than socialism
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    One small issue with this, surely? The leader of the Labour Party does not favour a second referendum and nor, so far as I know, does he favour a Parliamentary vote.
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    Paddy Ashdown is, I think, making the same mistake which many people (especially, LibDems) make. People who voted Remain don't, for the most part, want to stop Brexit now: the decision has been taken, and that's it. Certainly amongst Conservatives (of whom there are lots in Witney!), I am sure that is the case.

    But the polls don't support this view at all. The YouGov poll showed support for Leave and Remain almost unchanged from the Referendum.
    That's a different question. I voted Remain because of the economic risks of leaving in the absence of a coherent alternative plan, and I haven't changed my mind. But I accept the result and I certainly don't want to re-open it, let alone confuse the Brexit process even more than it is already confused by suggesting some kind of rethink. I'm sure many other people who voted Remain take the same view. Probably most. So you can't assume that 48% of voters would want want to re-open the question; at a guess, I'd hazard it's more like 10%.
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    foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548
    Rogueywon said:

    One small issue with this, surely? The leader of the Labour Party does not favour a second referendum and nor, so far as I know, does he favour a Parliamentary vote.

    Also worth noting is that Paddy does not speak for the LDs!

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    AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395

    AndyJS said:

    Witney was 53/47 Remain in the referendum.

    Same as Newham in east London - go figure....
    EMs and white-middle classes were both in favour.
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    MP_SEMP_SE Posts: 3,642
    Sandpit said:

    Can't Pantsdown just leave the stage gracefully? He's been wrong about everything for at least 30 years now.

    Pitiful. If he had any respect for himself he would learn to keep his mouth shut.
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    SimonStClareSimonStClare Posts: 7,976
    edited September 2016

    Paddy Ashdown is, I think, making the same mistake which many people (especially, LibDems) make. People who voted Remain don't, for the most part, want to stop Brexit now: the decision has been taken, and that's it. Certainly amongst Conservatives (of whom there are lots in Witney!), I am sure that is the case.

    But the polls don't support this view at all. The YouGov poll showed support for Leave and Remain almost unchanged from the Referendum.
    Remember ‘March for Europe’ lead by the irrepressible Mr Izzard? – turnout for the event was a humiliating 2.5K in a city of 8 million and the whole of Wales could only muster 75.

    That’s reality…
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    glwglw Posts: 9,554
    Paddy wants to overturn the referendum using the votes of at best a few tens of thousand of people?

    What a gigantic BERK he is.
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    Sandpit said:

    Can't Pantsdown just leave the stage gracefully? He's been wrong about everything for at least 30 years now.

    He did a great job for the Conservatives at GE2015 when he ran the LD campaign and ran the LD MPs into the ground. Pantsdown is just trying to finish the LDs off.
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    MortimerMortimer Posts: 13,956
    Hahaha.

    Is Paddy Ashdown seeking the title Remoaner in Chief?
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    It seems today that everyone has decided that Theresa May is a ditherer and not a tactician. Yet when I suggested that on Sunday there was a lot of harrumphing. How swiftly opinions change.
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    glwglw Posts: 9,554

    It seems today that everyone has decided that Theresa May is a ditherer and not a tactician. Yet when I suggested that on Sunday there was a lot of harrumphing. How swiftly opinions change.

    Everyone: Corbynites, Cameroons, and Remoaners.
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    Is there any reason to suppose that the Conservatives will put forward a Leaver in Witney? If they put forward an erstwhile Remainer the whole idea would look even less thought through than it looks at present.
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    This is interesting:

    Americans last year reaped the largest economic gains in nearly a generation as poverty fell, health insurance coverage spread and incomes rose sharply for households on every rung of the economic ladder, ending years of stagnation.

    The median household’s income in 2015 was $56,500, up 5.2 percent from the previous year — the largest single-year increase since record-keeping began in 1967, the Census Bureau said on Tuesday. The share of Americans living in poverty also posted the sharpest decline in decades.


    http://www.nytimes.com/2016/09/14/business/economy/us-census-household-income-poverty-wealth-2015.html?ref=todayspaper&_r=0
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    Black_RookBlack_Rook Posts: 8,905
    MikeL said:

    Someone asked the following question late last night:

    Old boundaries - Lab needs 13% lead for a majority
    New boundaries - Lab needs 14% lead for a majority

    Also:

    New boundaries - Con needs 2% lead for a majority

    New boundaries - Lab needs 6% lead for Con & Lab to be level on seats

    May surely has to pull out every single thing she can to get this through.

    http://www.ncpolitics.uk/2016/09/first-look-at-the-boundary-review.html/

    I've tried running some crude numbers through Electoral Calculus and that suggests that Labour "only" needs something like a 12% lead for a majority - but regardless of the model the numbers do look to be very forbidding for them. Basically, they're reliant on Jeremy Corbyn being able to generate absolute vote shares in excess of 40% and the Tories doing appallingly just to get to a majority of one (and this is one of those occasions when I remind those not already aware that the Conservatives have polled at least 30% of the vote at every single GE since 1835.) Indeed, if you give both parties 36% each then the Tories are only just shy of a majority and Labour are 70 seats behind them. It's an astonishing reversal of Labour's previous systemic advantages.

    It's no wonder that the Tories are so assiduously pursuing a "no MP left behind" policy to shuffle all the retirements and ennoblements about, and try to make sure that threatened MPs are moved into safe seats. The advantages of getting the new boundaries through are clearly enormous for them.
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    TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 114,563
    edited September 2016

    It seems today that everyone has decided that Theresa May is a ditherer and not a tactician. Yet when I suggested that on Sunday there was a lot of harrumphing. How swiftly opinions change.

    Heh. Today I was accused of speaking for David Cameron when I criticised Mrs May.
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    MikeLMikeL Posts: 7,311

    It seems today that everyone has decided that Theresa May is a ditherer and not a tactician. Yet when I suggested that on Sunday there was a lot of harrumphing. How swiftly opinions change.

    How long till everyone wants Cameron back?

    But seriously, I think things will settle down.

    First - everyone thought May would be boring and continuity Cameron

    Then - everyone thinks she has lots of new ideas and will make radical changes

    Next - (I suspect) it'll end up halfway between the two
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    Surely this is just an excuse to avoid another humiliating lost deposit?
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    Paul_BedfordshirePaul_Bedfordshire Posts: 3,632
    edited September 2016
    FFS - a child wandered into the road outside its house and was tragically run over by its grandfather who wasquestioned on suspicion of causing death by careless driving then bailed.

    Both parents have been remanded in custody on suspicion of child neglect.

    Their kid has just been killed in an accident and they are remanded in custody ffs?

    Our so called public services seem to have become ever more vengeful and vindictive.

    http://dailym.ai/2cHBDGW
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    On topic, this strategy displays all the brilliance and humility of Crassus at Carrhae
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    MortimerMortimer Posts: 13,956

    It seems today that everyone has decided that Theresa May is a ditherer and not a tactician. Yet when I suggested that on Sunday there was a lot of harrumphing. How swiftly opinions change.

    Not me. I've got my party back.

    And I've looked at the numbers and worked out that in the current climate, annoying metropolitan middle class liberals is not going to harm her electoral prospects either...
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    Surely this is just an excuse to avoid another humiliating lost deposit?

    *giggling like a child*

    LibDem voting %-ages during the 2010-15 parliament:

    https://twitter.com/Sunil_P2/status/550716028293251073
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    MortimerMortimer Posts: 13,956
    glw said:

    It seems today that everyone has decided that Theresa May is a ditherer and not a tactician. Yet when I suggested that on Sunday there was a lot of harrumphing. How swiftly opinions change.

    Everyone: Corbynites, Cameroons, and Remoaners.
    Post of the day :)
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    Black_RookBlack_Rook Posts: 8,905
    MikeL said:

    It seems today that everyone has decided that Theresa May is a ditherer and not a tactician. Yet when I suggested that on Sunday there was a lot of harrumphing. How swiftly opinions change.

    How long till everyone wants Cameron back?

    But seriously, I think things will settle down.

    First - everyone thought May would be boring and continuity Cameron

    Then - everyone thinks she has lots of new ideas and will make radical changes

    Next - (I suspect) it'll end up halfway between the two
    I suspect a lot of the trouble with the grammars is that the policy leaked before the Government had all its ducks lined up in a row. What's happened at PMQs today is exactly the sort of thing that May is striving to avoid over Brexit by being very slow and deliberate.
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    MortimerMortimer Posts: 13,956

    Sandpit said:

    Can't Pantsdown just leave the stage gracefully? He's been wrong about everything for at least 30 years now.

    He did a great job for the Conservatives at GE2015 when he ran the LD campaign and ran the LD MPs into the ground. Pantsdown is just trying to finish the LDs off.
    Agent Ashdown as well as Agent Corbyn? They are doing very well for us Tories right now!
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    MP_SEMP_SE Posts: 3,642

    Surely this is just an excuse to avoid another humiliating lost deposit?

    With any luck we will see a repeat of the Rochester and Strood by-election where the Lib Dems got an impressive 300 votes.
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    Mortimer said:

    It seems today that everyone has decided that Theresa May is a ditherer and not a tactician. Yet when I suggested that on Sunday there was a lot of harrumphing. How swiftly opinions change.

    Not me. I've got my party back.

    And I've looked at the numbers and worked out that in the current climate, annoying metropolitan middle class liberals is not going to harm her electoral prospects either...
    You sound like a Corbynite talking about Blair.
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    MortimerMortimer Posts: 13,956
    Good grief. Just come into London after a day's book buying in the Cotswolds, en route to York. Wow is it humid at KC!
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    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 54,060
    Dromedary said:

    weejonnie said:

    Speedy said:

    Just watching ITV News at the mo, they are reporting that May will give Hinkley Point C the go ahead shortly.

    If that is true then electricity prices will go through the roof.
    But we will have saved the planet - and that can't be all bad.
    Why might it be that nuclear power stations aren't built in city centres or somewhere else that's surrounded by lots of land on all sides? They're safe, they're clean as a whistle, they end dependency on Russian gas bosses, they're green, they're fluffy, they're friendly, they give free tours around the clock (except if you're carrying a Geiger counter), they save loads of public money (sure they do - and any that's not spent on reducing waiting times for operations will be given out in free fivers to all comers), and they're the future, right? There's been no pro-nuclear public relations spend of any kind. "Energy mix" is an unloaded term, and environmentalists are being public-spirited when they say stop the oiks breeding "put coal on the dole".
    We're not dependent on Russian gas. We have some domestic production, we have long-term supply contracts with Statoil in Norway, and we have LNG import facilities, as well as access to the EU gas market.
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    glwglw Posts: 9,554
    Mortimer said:

    Not me. I've got my party back.

    And I've looked at the numbers and worked out that in the current climate, annoying metropolitan middle class liberals is not going to harm her electoral prospects either...

    I'm no fan of May, but it's pretty clear some are trying to creative a narrative that's not borne out as yet.

    We won't really have much of an idea about May until next month at conference, when I assume we will get some idea about what she actually intends to do. She might surprise us.
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    Paul_BedfordshirePaul_Bedfordshire Posts: 3,632
    edited September 2016
    <



    You sound like a Corbynite talking about Blair.

    Its exactly a parallel of labour.

    The difference being that the Tories Corbyn has the support of 40 odd% of the electorate rather than Corbyn who only has Dave and Dierdrie Spart and a bunch of inner London Guardian Readers and sundry misfits behind him.
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    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 117,131
    The tribes which make up British voters, 26% are 'Common Sense', 24% 'Our Britain', 11% Progressives, 8% 'Community', 7% 'Free Liberals', 7% Swing voters, 6% 'New Britain' and 5% 'Democratic Socialists'
    http://www.conservativehome.com/platform/2016/09/emran-mian-so-much-for-the-progressive-majority-most-british-voters-sit-broadly-on-the-right.html
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    MortimerMortimer Posts: 13,956

    Mortimer said:

    It seems today that everyone has decided that Theresa May is a ditherer and not a tactician. Yet when I suggested that on Sunday there was a lot of harrumphing. How swiftly opinions change.

    Not me. I've got my party back.

    And I've looked at the numbers and worked out that in the current climate, annoying metropolitan middle class liberals is not going to harm her electoral prospects either...
    You sound like a Corbynite talking about Blair.
    Grammar Schools and Leaving in the same year? I couldn't ask for much more (at least not that can be legislated for!)
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    Black_RookBlack_Rook Posts: 8,905

    Paddy Ashdown is, I think, making the same mistake which many people (especially, LibDems) make. People who voted Remain don't, for the most part, want to stop Brexit now: the decision has been taken, and that's it. Certainly amongst Conservatives (of whom there are lots in Witney!), I am sure that is the case.

    But the polls don't support this view at all. The YouGov poll showed support for Leave and Remain almost unchanged from the Referendum.
    Remember ‘March for Europe’ lead by the irrepressible Mr Izzard? – turnout for the event was a humiliating 2.5K in a city of 8 million and the whole of Wales could only muster 75.

    That’s reality…
    Exactly. The fact that so many people would vote Remain and so many others would vote Leave does not mean that these choices are the most important issues in all of their lives. Something like 99.9998% of all those voters who backed Remain did not attend one of those rallies, and I dare say that almost as great a proportion of Remain voters wouldn't turn out to attend a pro-EU rally if one were being held at the bottom of the street.
  • Options

    Is there any reason to suppose that the Conservatives will put forward a Leaver in Witney? If they put forward an erstwhile Remainer the whole idea would look even less thought through than it looks at present.

    #Meeks4Witney?
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    MP_SE said:

    Surely this is just an excuse to avoid another humiliating lost deposit?

    With any luck we will see a repeat of the Rochester and Strood by-election where the Lib Dems got an impressive 300 votes.
    There are 0 LibDem councillors on Medway Council. There are 4 on West Oxfordshire DC. So, no.
  • Options

    Is there any reason to suppose that the Conservatives will put forward a Leaver in Witney? If they put forward an erstwhile Remainer the whole idea would look even less thought through than it looks at present.

    #Meeks4Witney?
    I don't think Witney is ready for me or vice versa. I've never sat on the back of a horse.
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    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 54,060

    Speedy said:

    Just watching ITV News at the mo, they are reporting that May will give Hinkley Point C the go ahead shortly.

    If that is true then electricity prices will go through the roof.
    Seems unlikely given that it's only meant to supply (if memory serves) about 8% if UK electricity demand.

    I take your point that it's an expensive form of generation, but I think May has probably called this one right. Nuclear provides reliable base load, whilst reducing our reliance on imported fuel and contributing towards decarbonisation, and it'll help keep the lights on. I also imagine that the Government doesn't want to piss off the Chinese, and doesn't wish to take a gamble on whether or not large scale, efficient storage capacity - allowing renewables to plug the supply gap - is developed before other forms of generation really begin to run down.
    The issue is that:

    1. Nuclear does not supply reliable anything. It is highly unlikely that HPC will have availability of more than 80%, as all nuclear power plants have substantial periods of scheduled and (worse) unscheduled maintenance.

    2. Nuclear is extremely inflexible. As more and more intermittent power is added to the grid (and more will be added every year as it gets cheaper and cheaper), it starts to cut into baseload demand. We need power that can be spun up very quickly.

    3. This is extremely expensive electricity. It will cost us approximately twice what it would cost if we built CCGTs.

    When HPC was planned, it was on the assumption that natural gas was running out worldwide, and we therefore needed an alternative. Since that point, we have had the shale gas revolution in the US and Canada, and absolutely massive discoveries of natural gas offshore Mozambique and Australia. Long term, it's entirely possible we will begin to exploit the UK's own natural gas shale reserves. Gas is cheap. Gas is clean. Gas is massively abundant. And gas fits very well with intermittent electricity from solar or wind.
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    MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 37,618
    rcs1000 said:

    Dromedary said:

    weejonnie said:

    Speedy said:

    Just watching ITV News at the mo, they are reporting that May will give Hinkley Point C the go ahead shortly.

    If that is true then electricity prices will go through the roof.
    But we will have saved the planet - and that can't be all bad.
    Why might it be that nuclear power stations aren't built in city centres or somewhere else that's surrounded by lots of land on all sides? They're safe, they're clean as a whistle, they end dependency on Russian gas bosses, they're green, they're fluffy, they're friendly, they give free tours around the clock (except if you're carrying a Geiger counter), they save loads of public money (sure they do - and any that's not spent on reducing waiting times for operations will be given out in free fivers to all comers), and they're the future, right? There's been no pro-nuclear public relations spend of any kind. "Energy mix" is an unloaded term, and environmentalists are being public-spirited when they say stop the oiks breeding "put coal on the dole".
    We're not dependent on Russian gas. We have some domestic production, we have long-term supply contracts with Statoil in Norway, and we have LNG import facilities, as well as access to the EU gas market.
    Isn't there also importation of US LNG on the cards as well?
  • Options
    MortimerMortimer Posts: 13,956

    Is there any reason to suppose that the Conservatives will put forward a Leaver in Witney? If they put forward an erstwhile Remainer the whole idea would look even less thought through than it looks at present.

    #Meeks4Witney?
    I don't think Witney is ready for me or vice versa. I've never sat on the back of a horse.
    Cars have made it to the Cotswolds, you know...

    :)
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    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 54,060
    JonathanD said:

    Dromedary said:

    weejonnie said:

    Speedy said:

    Just watching ITV News at the mo, they are reporting that May will give Hinkley Point C the go ahead shortly.

    If that is true then electricity prices will go through the roof.
    But we will have saved the planet - and that can't be all bad.
    Why might it be that nuclear power stations aren't built in city centres or somewhere else that's surrounded by lots of land on all sides? ".
    They require cooling water so need to be located next to large sources like rivers or the sea.
    Thanks Jonathan, you beat me to it.
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    foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548

    Mortimer said:

    It seems today that everyone has decided that Theresa May is a ditherer and not a tactician. Yet when I suggested that on Sunday there was a lot of harrumphing. How swiftly opinions change.

    Not me. I've got my party back.

    And I've looked at the numbers and worked out that in the current climate, annoying metropolitan middle class liberals is not going to harm her electoral prospects either...
    You sound like a Corbynite talking about Blair.
    I think that we should not just consider May's schools policy, but also how she has managed it.

    It doesn't seem to have been properly thrashed out in cabinet, indeed it seems as if her own minister is half hearted at best. As a result of this lack of scrutiny the policy is halfbaked. The policy leaked, possibly deliberately. She fell apart defending it at the first opportunity.

    Whatever the merits of the policy (rapidly becoming AV mark 2) It is demonstrated that Theresa is crap is prime minister. God help us all!
  • Options
    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 54,060
    MaxPB said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Dromedary said:

    weejonnie said:

    Speedy said:

    Just watching ITV News at the mo, they are reporting that May will give Hinkley Point C the go ahead shortly.

    If that is true then electricity prices will go through the roof.
    But we will have saved the planet - and that can't be all bad.
    Why might it be that nuclear power stations aren't built in city centres or somewhere else that's surrounded by lots of land on all sides? They're safe, they're clean as a whistle, they end dependency on Russian gas bosses, they're green, they're fluffy, they're friendly, they give free tours around the clock (except if you're carrying a Geiger counter), they save loads of public money (sure they do - and any that's not spent on reducing waiting times for operations will be given out in free fivers to all comers), and they're the future, right? There's been no pro-nuclear public relations spend of any kind. "Energy mix" is an unloaded term, and environmentalists are being public-spirited when they say stop the oiks breeding "put coal on the dole".
    We're not dependent on Russian gas. We have some domestic production, we have long-term supply contracts with Statoil in Norway, and we have LNG import facilities, as well as access to the EU gas market.
    Isn't there also importation of US LNG on the cards as well?
    Yes, and Canadian too.
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    TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 114,563
    edited September 2016
    Mortimer said:

    Is there any reason to suppose that the Conservatives will put forward a Leaver in Witney? If they put forward an erstwhile Remainer the whole idea would look even less thought through than it looks at present.

    #Meeks4Witney?
    I don't think Witney is ready for me or vice versa. I've never sat on the back of a horse.
    Cars have made it to the Cotswolds, you know...

    :)
    It is more to do with the time David Cameron went horse riding with Rebekah Brooks in Chipping Norton.

    One or two PBers were convinced that Dave would have to resign because of it.
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    MortimerMortimer Posts: 13,956

    Mortimer said:

    Is there any reason to suppose that the Conservatives will put forward a Leaver in Witney? If they put forward an erstwhile Remainer the whole idea would look even less thought through than it looks at present.

    #Meeks4Witney?
    I don't think Witney is ready for me or vice versa. I've never sat on the back of a horse.
    Cars have made it to the Cotswolds, you know...

    :)
    It is more to do with the time David Cameron went horse riding with Rebekah Brooks in Chipping Norton.

    One or two PBers were convinced that Dave would have to resign because of it.
    tim, probably?
  • Options
    MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 37,618
    edited September 2016
    Mortimer said:

    Mortimer said:

    It seems today that everyone has decided that Theresa May is a ditherer and not a tactician. Yet when I suggested that on Sunday there was a lot of harrumphing. How swiftly opinions change.

    Not me. I've got my party back.

    And I've looked at the numbers and worked out that in the current climate, annoying metropolitan middle class liberals is not going to harm her electoral prospects either...
    You sound like a Corbynite talking about Blair.
    Grammar Schools and Leaving in the same year? I couldn't ask for much more (at least not that can be legislated for!)
    Mortimer, you and I both support grammar schools and both attended one, do you not feel that these half baked plans will end up doing more harm than good? In the abstract I'd love to see more grammar schools and an education system which strives for excellence of all kinds including academic, but these proposals do nothing for the 65% of kids who won't be able to attend grammar school. In fact it may be counterproductive as kids who don't make it are left with fewer life chances and opportunities for success. I'm very disappointed that there aren't wider reforms.
  • Options

    Mortimer said:

    It seems today that everyone has decided that Theresa May is a ditherer and not a tactician. Yet when I suggested that on Sunday there was a lot of harrumphing. How swiftly opinions change.

    Not me. I've got my party back.

    And I've looked at the numbers and worked out that in the current climate, annoying metropolitan middle class liberals is not going to harm her electoral prospects either...
    You sound like a Corbynite talking about Blair.
    I think that we should not just consider May's schools policy, but also how she has managed it.

    It doesn't seem to have been properly thrashed out in cabinet, indeed it seems as if her own minister is half hearted at best. As a result of this lack of scrutiny the policy is halfbaked. The policy leaked, possibly deliberately. She fell apart defending it at the first opportunity.

    Whatever the merits of the policy (rapidly becoming AV mark 2) It is demonstrated that Theresa is crap is prime minister. God help us all!
    I've already written the outline of Sunday's thread on Theresa May being crap.
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    MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 37,618

    Mortimer said:

    Is there any reason to suppose that the Conservatives will put forward a Leaver in Witney? If they put forward an erstwhile Remainer the whole idea would look even less thought through than it looks at present.

    #Meeks4Witney?
    I don't think Witney is ready for me or vice versa. I've never sat on the back of a horse.
    Cars have made it to the Cotswolds, you know...

    :)
    It is more to do with the time David Cameron went horse riding with Rebekah Brooks in Chipping Norton.

    One or two PBers were convinced that Dave would have to resign because of it.
    The same people who thought Osborne would have to resign because he cried at a funeral! :D
  • Options
    MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 37,618
    rcs1000 said:

    MaxPB said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Dromedary said:

    weejonnie said:

    Speedy said:

    Just watching ITV News at the mo, they are reporting that May will give Hinkley Point C the go ahead shortly.

    If that is true then electricity prices will go through the roof.
    But we will have saved the planet - and that can't be all bad.
    Why might it be that nuclear power stations aren't built in city centres or somewhere else that's surrounded by lots of land on all sides? They're safe, they're clean as a whistle, they end dependency on Russian gas bosses, they're green, they're fluffy, they're friendly, they give free tours around the clock (except if you're carrying a Geiger counter), they save loads of public money (sure they do - and any that's not spent on reducing waiting times for operations will be given out in free fivers to all comers), and they're the future, right? There's been no pro-nuclear public relations spend of any kind. "Energy mix" is an unloaded term, and environmentalists are being public-spirited when they say stop the oiks breeding "put coal on the dole".
    We're not dependent on Russian gas. We have some domestic production, we have long-term supply contracts with Statoil in Norway, and we have LNG import facilities, as well as access to the EU gas market.
    Isn't there also importation of US LNG on the cards as well?
    Yes, and Canadian too.
    I seem to remember Liverpool being key to this plan.
  • Options
    MTimTMTimT Posts: 7,034
    weejonnie said:

    nunu said:
    The Nevada one was conducted solely post Clinton's early retirement from the 9/11 memorial so may not be too bad for her.
    What is bad for the Dems in that poll is that the GOP candidate is leading in the race to replace Harry Reid. If the GOP take that, it makes it that much harder for the Dems to retake the Senate.
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    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,986

    Is there any reason to suppose that the Conservatives will put forward a Leaver in Witney? If they put forward an erstwhile Remainer the whole idea would look even less thought through than it looks at present.

    #Meeks4Witney?
    I don't think Witney is ready for me or vice versa. I've never sat on the back of a horse.
    I could sort that one out for you :)
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    MortimerMortimer Posts: 13,956
    edited September 2016
    MaxPB said:

    Mortimer said:

    Mortimer said:

    It seems today that everyone has decided that Theresa May is a ditherer and not a tactician. Yet when I suggested that on Sunday there was a lot of harrumphing. How swiftly opinions change.

    Not me. I've got my party back.

    And I've looked at the numbers and worked out that in the current climate, annoying metropolitan middle class liberals is not going to harm her electoral prospects either...
    You sound like a Corbynite talking about Blair.
    Grammar Schools and Leaving in the same year? I couldn't ask for much more (at least not that can be legislated for!)
    Mortimer, you and I both support grammar schools and both attended one, do you not feel that these half baked plans will end up doing more harm than good? In the abstract I'd love to see more grammar schools and an education system which strives for excellence of all kinds including academic, but these proposals do nothing for the 35% of kids who won't be able to attend grammar school. In fact it may be counterproductive as kids who don't make it are left with fewer life chances and opportunities for success. I'm very disappointed that there aren't wider reforms.
    The NHS reforms reminded me that reforms don't happen of work if they're too radical. Step by step, Max old son.

    My view is that grammars are a brand. They're about aspiration. They're about people like you and me taken out of what might have been a hum drum existence into opportunity and doing something we enjoy that is also lucrative. It is about encouraging achievement, discipline and a sense of pride in our next generations.
  • Options
    not_on_firenot_on_fire Posts: 4,341
    edited September 2016

    Paddy Ashdown is, I think, making the same mistake which many people (especially, LibDems) make. People who voted Remain don't, for the most part, want to stop Brexit now: the decision has been taken, and that's it. Certainly amongst Conservatives (of whom there are lots in Witney!), I am sure that is the case.

    But the polls don't support this view at all. The YouGov poll showed support for Leave and Remain almost unchanged from the Referendum.
    Remember ‘March for Europe’ lead by the irrepressible Mr Izzard? – turnout for the event was a humiliating 2.5K in a city of 8 million and the whole of Wales could only muster 75.

    That’s reality…
    A "March for Brexit" would have gained similar pitiful numbers. Most people can't be bothered to attend such events because they, rightly, conclude they change nothing.
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    SandpitSandpit Posts: 49,941

    MikeL said:

    Someone asked the following question late last night:

    Old boundaries - Lab needs 13% lead for a majority
    New boundaries - Lab needs 14% lead for a majority

    Also:

    New boundaries - Con needs 2% lead for a majority

    New boundaries - Lab needs 6% lead for Con & Lab to be level on seats

    May surely has to pull out every single thing she can to get this through.

    http://www.ncpolitics.uk/2016/09/first-look-at-the-boundary-review.html/

    I've tried running some crude numbers through Electoral Calculus and that suggests that Labour "only" needs something like a 12% lead for a majority - but regardless of the model the numbers do look to be very forbidding for them. Basically, they're reliant on Jeremy Corbyn being able to generate absolute vote shares in excess of 40% and the Tories doing appallingly just to get to a majority of one (and this is one of those occasions when I remind those not already aware that the Conservatives have polled at least 30% of the vote at every single GE since 1835.) Indeed, if you give both parties 36% each then the Tories are only just shy of a majority and Labour are 70 seats behind them. It's an astonishing reversal of Labour's previous systemic advantages.

    It's no wonder that the Tories are so assiduously pursuing a "no MP left behind" policy to shuffle all the retirements and ennoblements about, and try to make sure that threatened MPs are moved into safe seats. The advantages of getting the new boundaries through are clearly enormous for them.
    Absolutely. People underestimate how important this is to the Conservative party. There will be massive effort of carrots and sticks from the whips over the next two years, to make sure this goes off without a hitch.

    Anyone who is being awkward now will end up with a knighthood, a seat in the Lords or a job as Ambassador to Singapore or the Seychelles.
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    Mortimer said:

    It seems today that everyone has decided that Theresa May is a ditherer and not a tactician. Yet when I suggested that on Sunday there was a lot of harrumphing. How swiftly opinions change.

    Not me. I've got my party back.

    And I've looked at the numbers and worked out that in the current climate, annoying metropolitan middle class liberals is not going to harm her electoral prospects either...
    You sound like a Corbynite talking about Blair.
    I think that we should not just consider May's schools policy, but also how she has managed it.

    It doesn't seem to have been properly thrashed out in cabinet, indeed it seems as if her own minister is half hearted at best. As a result of this lack of scrutiny the policy is halfbaked. The policy leaked, possibly deliberately. She fell apart defending it at the first opportunity.

    Whatever the merits of the policy (rapidly becoming AV mark 2) It is demonstrated that Theresa is crap is prime minister. God help us all!
    I've already written the outline of Sunday's thread on Theresa May being crap.
    Exclusive in this week's Sunil on Sunday!

    "TSE - closet LibDem?"
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    nunununu Posts: 6,024

    This is interesting:

    Americans last year reaped the largest economic gains in nearly a generation as poverty fell, health insurance coverage spread and incomes rose sharply for households on every rung of the economic ladder, ending years of stagnation.

    The median household’s income in 2015 was $56,500, up 5.2 percent from the previous year — the largest single-year increase since record-keeping began in 1967, the Census Bureau said on Tuesday. The share of Americans living in poverty also posted the sharpest decline in decades.


    http://www.nytimes.com/2016/09/14/business/economy/us-census-household-income-poverty-wealth-2015.html?ref=todayspaper&_r=0

    Yeah but wages are down 2.9% compared to 1999 in real terms. But it's OK at least Apple has a less then 1% tax rate.
This discussion has been closed.