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politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Meet Liam Fox, the 21st century Gerald Ratner

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  • Mr. X, au contraire, Galen was the chap credited with discovering (by treating gladiators and observing their injuries and symptoms) that the personality resided in the brain rather than the heart.
  • PlatoSaid said:

    :neutral:

    Twenty years ago today, people rushed to stores to get the newly-released Windows 95. https://t.co/NMGYENLron

    Not twenty years ago today. Clue is in the name 95 ...
    Plato was a late adopter ;)

    21 years ago Window 95 was seen as being a refreshing and good move forwards. Tech has certainly come a long way ...
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 53,130
    edited September 2016
    geoffw said:

    It goes on to say that therefore the UK will need to make payments to the EU if it wants to retain access to the single market.
    If Germany want us in the single market they should be paying us for the privilege of the €80bn trade deficit!

    I think most of the EU are expecting a Cameronesque negotiation, whereby we roll over and let them tickle our tummy - which is why we should should say no negotiation at all, it's a 'hard' exit to WTO terms. Then wait and see.
  • PlatoSaid said:

    :neutral:

    Twenty years ago today, people rushed to stores to get the newly-released Windows 95. https://t.co/NMGYENLron

    I used email for the first time in October 1995 :)
  • MikeKMikeK Posts: 9,053
    edited September 2016

    GIN1138 said:

    MaxPB said:

    I have to say that the Clinton campaign is eerily similar to the BSE campaign. Her latest insult to Trump voters is reminiscent of Dave's "little Englander" comment. It's just going to make people rally around him.

    Who will rock up and tell the Yanks they'll be "at the back of the queue" if they dare to vote for The Donald? :smiley:
    (((Dan Hodges))) ‏@DPJHodges 4h4 hours ago
    My prediction Hillary would destroy Trump was predicated on the assumption she would not turn into Mitt Romney.
    Looks like the trend is switching to The Donald. With only 2 months to go this could be the significant moment. I've just put a few bucks on Trump.
  • Mr. K, I still think Clinton will win handily, but this is not good for her.

    "You're shit, you are," is meant to be aimed at one's political opponents, not the electorate :p
  • geoffw said:

    It goes on to say that therefore the UK will need to make payments to the EU if it wants to retain access to the single market.
    Let wealthy Europhiles like Meeks and TSE personally foot the bill of Protection Money payments to their beloved EU.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 53,130
    MaxPB said:

    I have to say that the Clinton campaign is eerily similar to the BSE campaign. Her latest insult to Trump voters is reminiscent of Dave's "little Englander" comment. It's just going to make people rally around him.

    That's a dangerous game for Clinton to play, with turnout expected at 50 something percent and only a few points between the candidates. Wouldn't take many to turn out to stop her in the key states.
  • MortimerMortimer Posts: 14,098
    Sandpit said:

    MaxPB said:

    I have to say that the Clinton campaign is eerily similar to the BSE campaign. Her latest insult to Trump voters is reminiscent of Dave's "little Englander" comment. It's just going to make people rally around him.

    That's a dangerous game for Clinton to play, with turnout expected at 50 something percent and only a few points between the candidates. Wouldn't take many to turn out to stop her in the key states.
    Seems to me that the left/socially liberal rely on non voters to not turn out for the right, even when there is a chance to suckerpunxh the establishment.

  • Mr. Mortimer, to be fair, relying on non-voters to not vote has historically been entirely reasonable.

    It took some haranguing to get the 'Little Englanders' to turn out in the referendum.
  • MortimerMortimer Posts: 14,098

    Mr. Mortimer, to be fair, relying on non-voters to not vote has historically been entirely reasonable.

    It took some haranguing to get the 'Little Englanders' to turn out in the referendum.

    True. But historically the right has relied upon the can't be arsed party to gift them elections whilst stoking the middle's fear of leftism. Evidence seems to suggest this works.

    All evidence suggests that non voters are more likely to show up for anti establishment right wing figures/causes.
  • Mr. Mortimer, we shall soon discover whether the basket of deplorables becomes a nest of vipers for Clinton.

    If she loses, she'll go down in history for her double defeat.
  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670
    MikeK said:

    GIN1138 said:

    MaxPB said:

    I have to say that the Clinton campaign is eerily similar to the BSE campaign. Her latest insult to Trump voters is reminiscent of Dave's "little Englander" comment. It's just going to make people rally around him.

    Who will rock up and tell the Yanks they'll be "at the back of the queue" if they dare to vote for The Donald? :smiley:
    (((Dan Hodges))) ‏@DPJHodges 4h4 hours ago
    My prediction Hillary would destroy Trump was predicated on the assumption she would not turn into Mitt Romney.
    Looks like the trend is switching to The Donald. With only 2 months to go this could be the significant moment. I've just put a few bucks on Trump.
    You wanted to get on in late August at the peak of Hilary's Convention bounce, he was past 4/1 then. I have since cashed out.

    So predictable his price would come in.
  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670
    Mortimer said:

    Mr. Mortimer, to be fair, relying on non-voters to not vote has historically been entirely reasonable.

    It took some haranguing to get the 'Little Englanders' to turn out in the referendum.

    True. But historically the right has relied upon the can't be arsed party to gift them elections whilst stoking the middle's fear of leftism. Evidence seems to suggest this works.

    All evidence suggests that non voters are more likely to show up for anti establishment right wing figures/causes.
    If Non-College Whites bumps 5 points in Turnout and swing to Republican then Hilary still wins assuming nothing else changes - accoding t the all demos of http://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/2016-swing-the-election/

    Eve if you bump them to a 10 point increase in turnout and 10 increase in Republican vote then College Whites voting Democrat 52/48 wins it for the Democracts.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 94,914
    MP_SE said:

    GIN1138 said:

    MaxPB said:

    I have to say that the Clinton campaign is eerily similar to the BSE campaign. Her latest insult to Trump voters is reminiscent of Dave's "little Englander" comment. It's just going to make people rally around him.

    Who will rock up and tell the Yanks they'll be "at the back of the queue" if they dare to vote for The Donald? :smiley:
    (((Dan Hodges))) ‏@DPJHodges 4h4 hours ago
    My prediction Hillary would destroy Trump was predicated on the assumption she would not turn into Mitt Romney.
    Hodges' political insight is always worth ignoring.
    He was right about Ed Miliband and how Labour would do under him. Not to say he is right here, but he very clearly is sometimes right as well.
  • PlatoSaidPlatoSaid Posts: 10,383
    ITV
    French police find second car containing gas cylinders https://t.co/2hkhaGRY68 https://t.co/FLQoEJ2dmu
  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 21,910
    malcolmg said:

    GIN1138 said:

    MaxPB said:

    I have to say that the Clinton campaign is eerily similar to the BSE campaign. Her latest insult to Trump voters is reminiscent of Dave's "little Englander" comment. It's just going to make people rally around him.

    Who will rock up and tell the Yanks they'll be "at the back of the queue" if they dare to vote for The Donald? :smiley:
    GIN, thought you were going out, you not able to find those union jack underpants
    I'm staying in to wave my Union Jack flags in front of the telly! :smiley:
  • PlatoSaidPlatoSaid Posts: 10,383
    Nick Owens
    About to press the button on fresh #KeithVaz revelations...from our brilliant team on the @sundaymirror
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 42,910
    GIN1138 said:

    malcolmg said:

    GIN1138 said:

    MaxPB said:

    I have to say that the Clinton campaign is eerily similar to the BSE campaign. Her latest insult to Trump voters is reminiscent of Dave's "little Englander" comment. It's just going to make people rally around him.

    Who will rock up and tell the Yanks they'll be "at the back of the queue" if they dare to vote for The Donald? :smiley:
    GIN, thought you were going out, you not able to find those union jack underpants
    I'm staying in to wave my Union Jack flags in front of the telly! :smiley:
    Sounds good idea, hopefully with a few refreshments
  • surbitonsurbiton Posts: 13,549

    Speedy said:

    TSE Do I take it that you are unimpressed with Liam Fox?

    He is unimpressed for anyone not called George Osborne.

    I have critizised Fox in the past, but Fox is right this time.

    It's not just british big businesses though that have become "lazy and fat", all large corporations eventually become like that, just look this month at Apple with their crappy iPhone 7 and Samsung with their exploding Galaxy 7.
    I can name two British companies that are generally doing very well: Dyson and JCB. They have one major thing in common that might point to the problem confronting other companies: ownership and finance.

    To defend Apple (spit): as the competition grows better, it's hard to be revolutionary rather than evolutionary. Some have managed it though: https://www.clove.co.uk/cat-s60

    To defend Samsung (spit from Mrs J): this could strike any company that is pushing the envelope. It's just with batteries the consequences of failure can be dire.
    You mean, Dyson, which manufactures everything abroad.
  • PlatoSaidPlatoSaid Posts: 10,383
    Oh my

    Never a good idea to insult your opponent's supporters (voters). https://t.co/cP8tpE2e9n
  • I don't really agree that British companies don't make enough effort to export - I think the problem lies with them not making enough effort to displace foreign imports in the domestic market. That would be easier, hopefully lead to market saturation, and THEN is the time to look for export markets. A rush to export too soon is dangerous and unnecessary.

    My issue with 'fat and lazy' British business people is that they're entirely in it to make a fast buck, sometimes by selling their start-up to a foreign corporation at the earliest possible stage, sometimes by asset-stripping (see BHS), and sometimes just by paying themselves grotesque salaries. The idea that you would develop and nurture a business on UK soil over decades seems somehow an oddity these days.
  • PlatoSaid said:

    Nick Owens
    About to press the button on fresh #KeithVaz revelations...from our brilliant team on the @sundaymirror

    Is anybody shocked there's more?
  • PlatoSaid said:

    Nick Owens
    About to press the button on fresh #KeithVaz revelations...from our brilliant team on the @sundaymirror

    Is anybody shocked there's more?
    I'm a bit agog at what more there could be.
  • PlatoSaid said:

    ITV
    French police find second car containing gas cylinders https://t.co/2hkhaGRY68 https://t.co/FLQoEJ2dmu

    Not terrorism, It's delboy & Rodney's latest money making scheme.
  • surbiton said:

    Speedy said:

    TSE Do I take it that you are unimpressed with Liam Fox?

    He is unimpressed for anyone not called George Osborne.

    I have critizised Fox in the past, but Fox is right this time.

    It's not just british big businesses though that have become "lazy and fat", all large corporations eventually become like that, just look this month at Apple with their crappy iPhone 7 and Samsung with their exploding Galaxy 7.
    I can name two British companies that are generally doing very well: Dyson and JCB. They have one major thing in common that might point to the problem confronting other companies: ownership and finance.

    To defend Apple (spit): as the competition grows better, it's hard to be revolutionary rather than evolutionary. Some have managed it though: https://www.clove.co.uk/cat-s60

    To defend Samsung (spit from Mrs J): this could strike any company that is pushing the envelope. It's just with batteries the consequences of failure can be dire.
    You mean, Dyson, which manufactures everything abroad.
    Yes because nothing the company does is of any benefit to the UK, at all

    I guess you'd prefer the company not to exist as long as one lone security guard is employed guarding their empty premises? All for the intellectual purity of having had all the work in the UK.

    And in attempting to make a snide comment, you totally miss the point I was trying to make.
  • http://www.bbc.com/news/election-us-2016-37330420

    Hillary goes full Gordon Brown.
  • Alistair said:

    PlatoSaid said:

    glw said:

    The daft thing was, Gerald Ratner's comments tarnished his own brand, Fox only damages himself. - However to be fair, on this occasion Fox may have a point.

    Ratner was right, the products he sold were crap. Fox is right as well, British businesses could do a lot more to develop their export business.

    In Ratner's case telling the truth was a disaster, but Fox might provoke a wider debate about why British businesses don't do as well as they might.
    He wasn't. I got married in 1988. My wedding ring came from Ratners - it's an eternity ring sort with lots of small diamonds. Never been off my finger since bar a couple of times and still perfect. The settings haven't bent, clicked clothes and all the stones are there/still sparkly.

    The mistake Ratner made was to insult his customers re the average quality of what they sold. IIRC he was referring to cheap decanters or somesuch, not the jewellery.

    IIRC it cost about £250 back then. It was bought on HP!
    He specifically referred to the jewlerry.
    Not in the oft-quoted passage. He told a story where someone asked him how he could afford to sell a silver (plated?) decanter and tray for £xx - he recounted his answer, 'because it's crap'.

  • PlatoSaid said:

    Nick Owens
    About to press the button on fresh #KeithVaz revelations...from our brilliant team on the @sundaymirror

    Is anybody shocked there's more?
    I don't like Vaz, but it must be a pretty awful position to be in. Having suffered a fairly torrid week, all the time wondering if the papers have anything more to publish.

    I almost feel sorry for him. Almost, but not quite. ;)
  • PlatoSaid said:

    Nick Owens
    About to press the button on fresh #KeithVaz revelations...from our brilliant team on the @sundaymirror

    Is anybody shocked there's more?
    Shocked and amazed - but why is all this being revealed by the Mirror? The last paper to do the dirty on a Labour MP I’d have thought.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 50,526
    edited September 2016

    Alistair said:

    PlatoSaid said:

    glw said:

    The daft thing was, Gerald Ratner's comments tarnished his own brand, Fox only damages himself. - However to be fair, on this occasion Fox may have a point.

    Ratner was right, the products he sold were crap. Fox is right as well, British businesses could do a lot more to develop their export business.

    In Ratner's case telling the truth was a disaster, but Fox might provoke a wider debate about why British businesses don't do as well as they might.
    He wasn't. I got married in 1988. My wedding ring came from Ratners - it's an eternity ring sort with lots of small diamonds. Never been off my finger since bar a couple of times and still perfect. The settings haven't bent, clicked clothes and all the stones are there/still sparkly.

    The mistake Ratner made was to insult his customers re the average quality of what they sold. IIRC he was referring to cheap decanters or somesuch, not the jewellery.

    IIRC it cost about £250 back then. It was bought on HP!
    He specifically referred to the jewlerry.
    Not in the oft-quoted passage. He told a story where someone asked him how he could afford to sell a silver (plated?) decanter and tray for £xx - he recounted his answer, 'because it's crap'.
    He specifically contrasted the 'total crap' with the jewellery they sold, although he did also say that a prawn sandwich would have a longer life than the earrings they sell for the same price.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nj9BZz71yQE
  • Alistair said:

    PlatoSaid said:

    glw said:

    The daft thing was, Gerald Ratner's comments tarnished his own brand, Fox only damages himself. - However to be fair, on this occasion Fox may have a point.

    Ratner was right, the products he sold were crap. Fox is right as well, British businesses could do a lot more to develop their export business.

    In Ratner's case telling the truth was a disaster, but Fox might provoke a wider debate about why British businesses don't do as well as they might.
    He wasn't. I got married in 1988. My wedding ring came from Ratners - it's an eternity ring sort with lots of small diamonds. Never been off my finger since bar a couple of times and still perfect. The settings haven't bent, clicked clothes and all the stones are there/still sparkly.

    The mistake Ratner made was to insult his customers re the average quality of what they sold. IIRC he was referring to cheap decanters or somesuch, not the jewellery.

    IIRC it cost about £250 back then. It was bought on HP!
    He specifically referred to the jewlerry.
    Not in the oft-quoted passage. He told a story where someone asked him how he could afford to sell a silver (plated?) decanter and tray for £xx - he recounted his answer, 'because it's crap'.
    He specifically contrasted the 'total crap' with the jewellery they sold.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nj9BZz71yQE
    Poor man. It's really quite poignant.
  • Alistair said:

    PlatoSaid said:

    glw said:

    The daft thing was, Gerald Ratner's comments tarnished his own brand, Fox only damages himself. - However to be fair, on this occasion Fox may have a point.

    Ratner was right, the products he sold were crap. Fox is right as well, British businesses could do a lot more to develop their export business.

    In Ratner's case telling the truth was a disaster, but Fox might provoke a wider debate about why British businesses don't do as well as they might.
    He wasn't. I got married in 1988. My wedding ring came from Ratners - it's an eternity ring sort with lots of small diamonds. Never been off my finger since bar a couple of times and still perfect. The settings haven't bent, clicked clothes and all the stones are there/still sparkly.

    The mistake Ratner made was to insult his customers re the average quality of what they sold. IIRC he was referring to cheap decanters or somesuch, not the jewellery.

    IIRC it cost about £250 back then. It was bought on HP!
    He specifically referred to the jewlerry.
    Not in the oft-quoted passage. He told a story where someone asked him how he could afford to sell a silver (plated?) decanter and tray for £xx - he recounted his answer, 'because it's crap'.
    He specifically contrasted the 'total crap' with the jewellery they sold.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nj9BZz71yQE
    Poor man. It's really quite poignant.
    Just when he thought it couldn't get worse, people start comparing him with Liam Fox...
  • MikeKMikeK Posts: 9,053

    Mr. Mortimer, to be fair, relying on non-voters to not vote has historically been entirely reasonable.

    It took some haranguing to get the 'Little Englanders' to turn out in the referendum.

    Not 'Little Englanders' Morris, "Big Englanders" is more like it. Blimey are we in Gullivers Travels?
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 27,525
    edited September 2016

    Speedy said:

    TSE Do I take it that you are unimpressed with Liam Fox?

    He is unimpressed for anyone not called George Osborne.

    I have critizised Fox in the past, but Fox is right this time.

    It's not just british big businesses though that have become "lazy and fat", all large corporations eventually become like that, just look this month at Apple with their crappy iPhone 7 and Samsung with their exploding Galaxy 7.
    I can name two British companies that are generally doing very well: Dyson and JCB. They have one major thing in common that might point to the problem confronting other companies: ownership and finance.

    To defend Apple (spit): as the competition grows better, it's hard to be revolutionary rather than evolutionary. Some have managed it though: https://www.clove.co.uk/cat-s60

    To defend Samsung (spit from Mrs J): this could strike any company that is pushing the envelope. It's just with batteries the consequences of failure can be dire.
    I'd like to put in a good word for my LG G5. Beautiful phone, superb camera, lovely features like all the updates displaying even when the phone's 'resting' so you can see at a glance what's going on. As a marketer I studiously avoid leading brands. There's a premium to be paid. Challenger brands almost always give you more for less.
  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670
    edited September 2016
    Silly vanilla
  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670
    Beaten.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 56,139
    Alistair said:

    PlatoSaid said:

    glw said:

    The daft thing was, Gerald Ratner's comments tarnished his own brand, Fox only damages himself. - However to be fair, on this occasion Fox may have a point.

    Ratner was right, the products he sold were crap. Fox is right as well, British businesses could do a lot more to develop their export business.

    In Ratner's case telling the truth was a disaster, but Fox might provoke a wider debate about why British businesses don't do as well as they might.
    He wasn't. I got married in 1988. My wedding ring came from Ratners - it's an eternity ring sort with lots of small diamonds. Never been off my finger since bar a couple of times and still perfect. The settings haven't bent, clicked clothes and all the stones are there/still sparkly.

    The mistake Ratner made was to insult his customers re the average quality of what they sold. IIRC he was referring to cheap decanters or somesuch, not the jewellery.

    IIRC it cost about £250 back then. It was bought on HP!
    He specifically referred to the jewlerry.
    I don't think that's true. I think he said "people ask me how I can sell a cut glass decanter and four glasses for twenty quid. And I say, because it's crap."
  • PlatoSaid said:

    Nick Owens
    About to press the button on fresh #KeithVaz revelations...from our brilliant team on the @sundaymirror

    Is anybody shocked there's more?
    Shocked and amazed - but why is all this being revealed by the Mirror? The last paper to do the dirty on a Labour MP I’d have thought.
    We aren't allowed to discuss Jim on here, but if you do some joining of the dots you will work out why, and it isn't to do with NEC.
  • PlatoSaid said:

    Nick Owens
    About to press the button on fresh #KeithVaz revelations...from our brilliant team on the @sundaymirror

    Is anybody shocked there's more?
    Shocked and amazed - but why is all this being revealed by the Mirror? The last paper to do the dirty on a Labour MP I’d have thought.
    Sometimes newspaper editors like to shift newspapers :)

    Some of the accusations are.... verrrrrrrrrryyyyyyy bad.
  • Speedy said:

    TSE Do I take it that you are unimpressed with Liam Fox?

    He is unimpressed for anyone not called George Osborne.

    I have critizised Fox in the past, but Fox is right this time.

    It's not just british big businesses though that have become "lazy and fat", all large corporations eventually become like that, just look this month at Apple with their crappy iPhone 7 and Samsung with their exploding Galaxy 7.
    I can name two British companies that are generally doing very well: Dyson and JCB. They have one major thing in common that might point to the problem confronting other companies: ownership and finance.

    To defend Apple (spit): as the competition grows better, it's hard to be revolutionary rather than evolutionary. Some have managed it though: https://www.clove.co.uk/cat-s60

    To defend Samsung (spit from Mrs J): this could strike any company that is pushing the envelope. It's just with batteries the consequences of failure can be dire.
    I'd like to put in a good word for my LG G5. Beautiful phone, superb camera, lovely features like all the updates displaying even when the phone's 'resting' so you can see at a glance what's going on. As a marketer I studiously avoid leading brands. There's a premium to be paid. Challenger brands almost always give you more for less.
    That's often the case, especially when there are lots of competitors in a market. On the other hand, you often get what you pay for.

    One of the tests I try to do on consumer gear (hard on phones) is the button test: press a few of the buttons on the device and see how 'satisfying' the feel of them is: if they feel loose, wobbly, or have no obvious reaction to the press then they haven't put a lot of effort into the buttons. And if they haven't put the effort into that, then they won't have to the internals.

    Washing machines are particularly bad for this, as the buttons in cheap machines often have the cheapest (and least reliable) connectors possible.

    After handling hundreds of consumer electronic devices, I've found there is a direct correlation between the effort a company spends on the casing and the efforts they put into the internals.
  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670
    The sampling of the la time tracking poll by Real Clear Politics is bizarre.

    26th July
    5th August
    12th August
    28th August
    9th September

    Why the random gaps?
  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670
    rcs1000 said:

    Alistair said:

    PlatoSaid said:

    glw said:

    The daft thing was, Gerald Ratner's comments tarnished his own brand, Fox only damages himself. - However to be fair, on this occasion Fox may have a point.

    Ratner was right, the products he sold were crap. Fox is right as well, British businesses could do a lot more to develop their export business.

    In Ratner's case telling the truth was a disaster, but Fox might provoke a wider debate about why British businesses don't do as well as they might.
    He wasn't. I got married in 1988. My wedding ring came from Ratners - it's an eternity ring sort with lots of small diamonds. Never been off my finger since bar a couple of times and still perfect. The settings haven't bent, clicked clothes and all the stones are there/still sparkly.

    The mistake Ratner made was to insult his customers re the average quality of what they sold. IIRC he was referring to cheap decanters or somesuch, not the jewellery.

    IIRC it cost about £250 back then. It was bought on HP!
    He specifically referred to the jewlerry.
    I don't think that's true. I think he said "people ask me how I can sell a cut glass decanter and four glasses for twenty quid. And I say, because it's crap."
    He called earings they sold as being of less than stellar quality later in the speech.
  • PlatoSaid said:

    Nick Owens
    About to press the button on fresh #KeithVaz revelations...from our brilliant team on the @sundaymirror

    Is anybody shocked there's more?
    I don't like Vaz, but it must be a pretty awful position to be in. Having suffered a fairly torrid week, all the time wondering if the papers have anything more to publish.

    I almost feel sorry for him. Almost, but not quite. ;)
    I wouldn't waste your pity on him. He's had a very good run.
  • PlatoSaidPlatoSaid Posts: 10,383
    Seriously, this is beyond stupid from Twitter

    .@Poppy_Fields1 Twitter is auto-correcting #BasketOfDeplorables to #BasketOfAdorables. Try it. We aren't stupid. @NolteNC
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 77,411
    Ratner's most recent venture http://www.geraldonline.com/ seems to be down
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 77,411
    edited September 2016
    Alistair said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Alistair said:

    PlatoSaid said:

    glw said:

    The daft thing was, Gerald Ratner's comments tarnished his own brand, Fox only damages himself. - However to be fair, on this occasion Fox may have a point.

    Ratner was right, the products he sold were crap. Fox is right as well, British businesses could do a lot more to develop their export business.

    In Ratner's case telling the truth was a disaster, but Fox might provoke a wider debate about why British businesses don't do as well as they might.
    He wasn't. I got married in 1988. My wedding ring came from Ratners - it's an eternity ring sort with lots of small diamonds. Never been off my finger since bar a couple of times and still perfect. The settings haven't bent, clicked clothes and all the stones are there/still sparkly.

    The mistake Ratner made was to insult his customers re the average quality of what they sold. IIRC he was referring to cheap decanters or somesuch, not the jewellery.

    IIRC it cost about £250 back then. It was bought on HP!
    He specifically referred to the jewlerry.
    I don't think that's true. I think he said "people ask me how I can sell a cut glass decanter and four glasses for twenty quid. And I say, because it's crap."
    He called earings they sold as being of less than stellar quality later in the speech.
    Well what do you expect for 99 p :D (Guess ~ £3 now)
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 80,150
    edited September 2016
    rcs1000 said:

    Alistair said:

    PlatoSaid said:

    glw said:

    The daft thing was, Gerald Ratner's comments tarnished his own brand, Fox only damages himself. - However to be fair, on this occasion Fox may have a point.

    Ratner was right, the products he sold were crap. Fox is right as well, British businesses could do a lot more to develop their export business.

    In Ratner's case telling the truth was a disaster, but Fox might provoke a wider debate about why British businesses don't do as well as they might.
    He wasn't. I got married in 1988. My wedding ring came from Ratners - it's an eternity ring sort with lots of small diamonds. Never been off my finger since bar a couple of times and still perfect. The settings haven't bent, clicked clothes and all the stones are there/still sparkly.

    The mistake Ratner made was to insult his customers re the average quality of what they sold. IIRC he was referring to cheap decanters or somesuch, not the jewellery.

    IIRC it cost about £250 back then. It was bought on HP!
    He specifically referred to the jewlerry.
    I don't think that's true. I think he said "people ask me how I can sell a cut glass decanter and four glasses for twenty quid. And I say, because it's crap."
    What is amazing is that the sales of "non-desirable" types of stones via those crappy tv channels is incredibly big business and profitable.
  • OmniumOmnium Posts: 10,468

    Speedy said:

    TSE Do I take it that you are unimpressed with Liam Fox?

    He is unimpressed for anyone not called George Osborne.

    I have critizised Fox in the past, but Fox is right this time.

    It's not just british big businesses though that have become "lazy and fat", all large corporations eventually become like that, just look this month at Apple with their crappy iPhone 7 and Samsung with their exploding Galaxy 7.
    I can name two British companies that are generally doing very well: Dyson and JCB. They have one major thing in common that might point to the problem confronting other companies: ownership and finance.

    To defend Apple (spit): as the competition grows better, it's hard to be revolutionary rather than evolutionary. Some have managed it though: https://www.clove.co.uk/cat-s60

    To defend Samsung (spit from Mrs J): this could strike any company that is pushing the envelope. It's just with batteries the consequences of failure can be dire.
    Apple are a great company. They rip us all off, but they do tell us how.

    But anyway Apple are great because their products are great. If you unboxed (I'm coming to live with that term) an apple product in the 80s or 90s you saw their attention to detail. I acquired an Apple II computer when I was about 16 or 17. I forgot girls for at least a day or so.

  • TykejohnnoTykejohnno Posts: 7,362
    Can we have a thread on Hillary doing a full Gordon ;-)
  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 21,352
    Omnium said:

    Speedy said:

    TSE Do I take it that you are unimpressed with Liam Fox?

    He is unimpressed for anyone not called George Osborne.

    I have critizised Fox in the past, but Fox is right this time.

    It's not just british big businesses though that have become "lazy and fat", all large corporations eventually become like that, just look this month at Apple with their crappy iPhone 7 and Samsung with their exploding Galaxy 7.
    I can name two British companies that are generally doing very well: Dyson and JCB. They have one major thing in common that might point to the problem confronting other companies: ownership and finance.

    To defend Apple (spit): as the competition grows better, it's hard to be revolutionary rather than evolutionary. Some have managed it though: https://www.clove.co.uk/cat-s60

    To defend Samsung (spit from Mrs J): this could strike any company that is pushing the envelope. It's just with batteries the consequences of failure can be dire.
    Apple are a great company. They rip us all off, but they do tell us how.

    But anyway Apple are great because their products are great. If you unboxed (I'm coming to live with that term) an apple product in the 80s or 90s you saw their attention to detail. I acquired an Apple II computer when I was about 16 or 17. I forgot girls for at least a day or so.

    Apple are off the boil. Sadly they haven't done anything interesting or important in about 5 years. The same can be said for Google, Facebook, Twitter.


  • Jonathan said:

    Omnium said:

    Speedy said:

    TSE Do I take it that you are unimpressed with Liam Fox?

    He is unimpressed for anyone not called George Osborne.

    I have critizised Fox in the past, but Fox is right this time.

    It's not just british big businesses though that have become "lazy and fat", all large corporations eventually become like that, just look this month at Apple with their crappy iPhone 7 and Samsung with their exploding Galaxy 7.
    I can name two British companies that are generally doing very well: Dyson and JCB. They have one major thing in common that might point to the problem confronting other companies: ownership and finance.

    To defend Apple (spit): as the competition grows better, it's hard to be revolutionary rather than evolutionary. Some have managed it though: https://www.clove.co.uk/cat-s60

    To defend Samsung (spit from Mrs J): this could strike any company that is pushing the envelope. It's just with batteries the consequences of failure can be dire.
    Apple are a great company. They rip us all off, but they do tell us how.

    But anyway Apple are great because their products are great. If you unboxed (I'm coming to live with that term) an apple product in the 80s or 90s you saw their attention to detail. I acquired an Apple II computer when I was about 16 or 17. I forgot girls for at least a day or so.

    Apple are off the boil. Sadly they haven't done anything interesting or important in about 5 years. The same can be said for Google, Facebook, Twitter.


    Agree Apple and Twitter....Google and Facebook lots going on.
  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 21,352

    Jonathan said:

    Omnium said:

    Speedy said:

    TSE Do I take it that you are unimpressed with Liam Fox?

    He is unimpressed for anyone not called George Osborne.

    I have critizised Fox in the past, but Fox is right this time.

    It's not just british big businesses though that have become "lazy and fat", all large corporations eventually become like that, just look this month at Apple with their crappy iPhone 7 and Samsung with their exploding Galaxy 7.
    I can name two British companies that are generally doing very well: Dyson and JCB. They have one major thing in common that might point to the problem confronting other companies: ownership and finance.

    To defend Apple (spit): as the competition grows better, it's hard to be revolutionary rather than evolutionary. Some have managed it though: https://www.clove.co.uk/cat-s60

    To defend Samsung (spit from Mrs J): this could strike any company that is pushing the envelope. It's just with batteries the consequences of failure can be dire.
    Apple are a great company. They rip us all off, but they do tell us how.

    But anyway Apple are great because their products are great. If you unboxed (I'm coming to live with that term) an apple product in the 80s or 90s you saw their attention to detail. I acquired an Apple II computer when I was about 16 or 17. I forgot girls for at least a day or so.

    Apple are off the boil. Sadly they haven't done anything interesting or important in about 5 years. The same can be said for Google, Facebook, Twitter.


    Agree Apple and Twitter....Google and Facebook lots going on.
    Go on...
  • I'm not so sure Clinton's comments are far off "doing a Ratner" either. If you are a politician, your stock in trade is the ordinary voter.
  • Jonathan said:

    Omnium said:

    Speedy said:

    TSE Do I take it that you are unimpressed with Liam Fox?

    He is unimpressed for anyone not called George Osborne.

    I have critizised Fox in the past, but Fox is right this time.

    It's not just british big businesses though that have become "lazy and fat", all large corporations eventually become like that, just look this month at Apple with their crappy iPhone 7 and Samsung with their exploding Galaxy 7.
    I can name two British companies that are generally doing very well: Dyson and JCB. They have one major thing in common that might point to the problem confronting other companies: ownership and finance.

    To defend Apple (spit): as the competition grows better, it's hard to be revolutionary rather than evolutionary. Some have managed it though: https://www.clove.co.uk/cat-s60

    To defend Samsung (spit from Mrs J): this could strike any company that is pushing the envelope. It's just with batteries the consequences of failure can be dire.
    Apple are a great company. They rip us all off, but they do tell us how.

    But anyway Apple are great because their products are great. If you unboxed (I'm coming to live with that term) an apple product in the 80s or 90s you saw their attention to detail. I acquired an Apple II computer when I was about 16 or 17. I forgot girls for at least a day or so.

    Apple are off the boil. Sadly they haven't done anything interesting or important in about 5 years. The same can be said for Google, Facebook, Twitter.


    Agree Apple and Twitter....Google and Facebook lots going on.
    Google and Facebook are better at giving the impression they are doing something. But none of Google's much lauded inventions has actually been a hit.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 38,135
    Alistair said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Alistair said:

    PlatoSaid said:

    glw said:

    The daft thing was, Gerald Ratner's comments tarnished his own brand, Fox only damages himself. - However to be fair, on this occasion Fox may have a point.

    Ratner was right, the products he sold were crap. Fox is right as well, British businesses could do a lot more to develop their export business.

    In Ratner's case telling the truth was a disaster, but Fox might provoke a wider debate about why British businesses don't do as well as they might.
    He wasn't. I got married in 1988. My wedding ring came from Ratners - it's an eternity ring sort with lots of small diamonds. Never been off my finger since bar a couple of times and still perfect. The settings haven't bent, clicked clothes and all the stones are there/still sparkly.

    The mistake Ratner made was to insult his customers re the average quality of what they sold. IIRC he was referring to cheap decanters or somesuch, not the jewellery.

    IIRC it cost about £250 back then. It was bought on HP!
    He specifically referred to the jewlerry.
    I don't think that's true. I think he said "people ask me how I can sell a cut glass decanter and four glasses for twenty quid. And I say, because it's crap."
    He called earings they sold as being of less than stellar quality later in the speech.
    Something about prawn sandwiches, no?
  • weejonnieweejonnie Posts: 3,820

    I'm not so sure Clinton's comments are far off "doing a Ratner" either. If you are a politician, your stock in trade is the ordinary voter.

    Clinton lost the CiC debate heavily and is panicking. She is under a lot of stress as the pussycat she thought she was fighting seems to have grown teeth.
  • Jonathan said:

    Omnium said:

    Speedy said:

    TSE Do I take it that you are unimpressed with Liam Fox?

    He is unimpressed for anyone not called George Osborne.

    I have critizised Fox in the past, but Fox is right this time.

    It's not just british big businesses though that have become "lazy and fat", all large corporations eventually become like that, just look this month at Apple with their crappy iPhone 7 and Samsung with their exploding Galaxy 7.
    I can name two British companies that are generally doing very well: Dyson and JCB. They have one major thing in common that might point to the problem confronting other companies: ownership and finance.

    To defend Apple (spit): as the competition grows better, it's hard to be revolutionary rather than evolutionary. Some have managed it though: https://www.clove.co.uk/cat-s60

    To defend Samsung (spit from Mrs J): this could strike any company that is pushing the envelope. It's just with batteries the consequences of failure can be dire.
    Apple are a great company. They rip us all off, but they do tell us how.

    But anyway Apple are great because their products are great. If you unboxed (I'm coming to live with that term) an apple product in the 80s or 90s you saw their attention to detail. I acquired an Apple II computer when I was about 16 or 17. I forgot girls for at least a day or so.

    Apple are off the boil. Sadly they haven't done anything interesting or important in about 5 years. The same can be said for Google, Facebook, Twitter.


    Agree Apple and Twitter....Google and Facebook lots going on.
    Google and Facebook are better at giving the impression they are doing something. But none of Google's much lauded inventions has actually been a hit.
    There's an interesting question: what'll be the next massively disruptive consumer tech?

    Anyone who can answer that is probably already too rich to read PB. ;)
  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670
    weejonnie said:

    I'm not so sure Clinton's comments are far off "doing a Ratner" either. If you are a politician, your stock in trade is the ordinary voter.

    Clinton lost the CiC debate heavily and is panicking. She is under a lot of stress as the pussycat she thought she was fighting seems to have grown teeth.
    She really didn't.


  • Shocked and amazed - but why is all this being revealed by the Mirror?

    Apparently the editor bought a dodgy washing machine that set fire to his kitchen and he's a bit sore so hes doing an eight page consumer rights splash featuring lots of dusgruntled washing machine users with long faces
  • MikeKMikeK Posts: 9,053
    Jonathan said:

    Omnium said:

    Speedy said:

    TSE Do I take it that you are unimpressed with Liam Fox?

    He is unimpressed for anyone not called George Osborne.

    I have critizised Fox in the past, but Fox is right this time.

    It's not just british big businesses though that have become "lazy and fat", all large corporations eventually become like that, just look this month at Apple with their crappy iPhone 7 and Samsung with their exploding Galaxy 7.
    I can name two British companies that are generally doing very well: Dyson and JCB. They have one major thing in common that might point to the problem confronting other companies: ownership and finance.

    To defend Apple (spit): as the competition grows better, it's hard to be revolutionary rather than evolutionary. Some have managed it though: https://www.clove.co.uk/cat-s60

    To defend Samsung (spit from Mrs J): this could strike any company that is pushing the envelope. It's just with batteries the consequences of failure can be dire.
    Apple are a great company. They rip us all off, but they do tell us how.

    But anyway Apple are great because their products are great. If you unboxed (I'm coming to live with that term) an apple product in the 80s or 90s you saw their attention to detail. I acquired an Apple II computer when I was about 16 or 17. I forgot girls for at least a day or so.

    Apple are off the boil. Sadly they haven't done anything interesting or important in about 5 years. The same can be said for Google, Facebook, Twitter.
    Agree. Apple are still superficially great but they went off the boil when that guiding genius Steve Jobs died. Plenty of R & D around but nothing new and revolutionary in the works; seemingly.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 38,135
    Alistair said:

    weejonnie said:

    I'm not so sure Clinton's comments are far off "doing a Ratner" either. If you are a politician, your stock in trade is the ordinary voter.

    Clinton lost the CiC debate heavily and is panicking. She is under a lot of stress as the pussycat she thought she was fighting seems to have grown teeth.
    She really didn't.
    Judging by the reaction from the Clinton camp since then, they clearly think they lost.
  • Jonathan said:

    Omnium said:

    Speedy said:

    TSE Do I take it that you are unimpressed with Liam Fox?

    He is unimpressed for anyone not called George Osborne.

    I have critizised Fox in the past, but Fox is right this time.

    It's not just british big businesses though that have become "lazy and fat", all large corporations eventually become like that, just look this month at Apple with their crappy iPhone 7 and Samsung with their exploding Galaxy 7.
    I can name two British companies that are generally doing very well: Dyson and JCB. They have one major thing in common that might point to the problem confronting other companies: ownership and finance.

    To defend Apple (spit): as the competition grows better, it's hard to be revolutionary rather than evolutionary. Some have managed it though: https://www.clove.co.uk/cat-s60

    To defend Samsung (spit from Mrs J): this could strike any company that is pushing the envelope. It's just with batteries the consequences of failure can be dire.
    Apple are a great company. They rip us all off, but they do tell us how.

    But anyway Apple are great because their products are great. If you unboxed (I'm coming to live with that term) an apple product in the 80s or 90s you saw their attention to detail. I acquired an Apple II computer when I was about 16 or 17. I forgot girls for at least a day or so.

    Apple are off the boil. Sadly they haven't done anything interesting or important in about 5 years. The same can be said for Google, Facebook, Twitter.


    Agree Apple and Twitter....Google and Facebook lots going on.
    Google and Facebook are better at giving the impression they are doing something. But none of Google's much lauded inventions has actually been a hit.
    Android? That's not a hit, just the most used phone OS.
  • Jonathan said:

    Omnium said:

    Speedy said:

    TSE Do I take it that you are unimpressed with Liam Fox?

    He is unimpressed for anyone not called George Osborne.

    I have critizised Fox in the past, but Fox is right this time.

    It's not just british big businesses though that have become "lazy and fat", all large corporations eventually become like that, just look this month at Apple with their crappy iPhone 7 and Samsung with their exploding Galaxy 7.
    I can name two British companies that are generally doing very well: Dyson and JCB. They have one major thing in common that might point to the problem confronting other companies: ownership and finance.

    To defend Apple (spit): as the competition grows better, it's hard to be revolutionary rather than evolutionary. Some have managed it though: https://www.clove.co.uk/cat-s60

    To defend Samsung (spit from Mrs J): this could strike any company that is pushing the envelope. It's just with batteries the consequences of failure can be dire.
    Apple are a great company. They rip us all off, but they do tell us how.

    But anyway Apple are great because their products are great. If you unboxed (I'm coming to live with that term) an apple product in the 80s or 90s you saw their attention to detail. I acquired an Apple II computer when I was about 16 or 17. I forgot girls for at least a day or so.

    Apple are off the boil. Sadly they haven't done anything interesting or important in about 5 years. The same can be said for Google, Facebook, Twitter.


    Agree Apple and Twitter....Google and Facebook lots going on.
    Google and Facebook are better at giving the impression they are doing something. But none of Google's much lauded inventions has actually been a hit.
    There's an interesting question: what'll be the next massively disruptive consumer tech?

    Anyone who can answer that is probably already too rich to read PB. ;)
    That one is easy to answer - driverless vehicles.

    Once they get that developed to the stage where you can put your kid in the car and the car drives the kid to school and then drives itself home again empty this technology will cause mayhem in the road passenger and freight industry with hundreds of thousands of lorry van and taxi drivers out of a job and most of the car insurance industry out of a job because there will be about five policies taken out in the uk all by vehicle manufacturers.
  • Jonathan said:

    Jonathan said:

    Omnium said:

    Speedy said:

    TSE Do I take it that you are unimpressed with Liam Fox?

    He is unimpressed for anyone not called George Osborne.

    I have critizised Fox in the past, but Fox is right this time.

    It's not just british big businesses though that have become "lazy and fat", all large corporations eventually become like that, just look this month at Apple with their crappy iPhone 7 and Samsung with their exploding Galaxy 7.
    I can name two British companies that are generally doing very well: Dyson and JCB. They have one major thing in common that might point to the problem confronting other companies: ownership and finance.

    To defend Apple (spit): as the competition grows better, it's hard to be revolutionary rather than evolutionary. Some have managed it though: https://www.clove.co.uk/cat-s60

    To defend Samsung (spit from Mrs J): this could strike any company that is pushing the envelope. It's just with batteries the consequences of failure can be dire.
    Apple are a great company. They rip us all off, but they do tell us how.

    But anyway Apple are great because their products are great. If you unboxed (I'm coming to live with that term) an apple product in the 80s or 90s you saw their attention to detail. I acquired an Apple II computer when I was about 16 or 17. I forgot girls for at least a day or so.

    Apple are off the boil. Sadly they haven't done anything interesting or important in about 5 years. The same can be said for Google, Facebook, Twitter.


    Agree Apple and Twitter....Google and Facebook lots going on.
    Go on...
    Self Driving cars, Deep Minds / Machine Learning, Home Automation, etc etc etc
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 80,150
    edited September 2016

    Jonathan said:

    Omnium said:

    Speedy said:

    TSE Do I take it that you are unimpressed with Liam Fox?

    He is unimpressed for anyone not called George Osborne.

    I have critizised Fox in the past, but Fox is right this time.

    It's not just british big businesses though that have become "lazy and fat", all large corporations eventually become like that, just look this month at Apple with their crappy iPhone 7 and Samsung with their exploding Galaxy 7.
    I can name two British companies that are generally doing very well: Dyson and JCB. They have one major thing in common that might point to the problem confronting other companies: ownership and finance.

    To defend Apple (spit): as the competition grows better, it's hard to be revolutionary rather than evolutionary. Some have managed it though: https://www.clove.co.uk/cat-s60

    To defend Samsung (spit from Mrs J): this could strike any company that is pushing the envelope. It's just with batteries the consequences of failure can be dire.
    Apple are a great company. They rip us all off, but they do tell us how.

    But anyway Apple are great because their products are great. If you unboxed (I'm coming to live with that term) an apple product in the 80s or 90s you saw their attention to detail. I acquired an Apple II computer when I was about 16 or 17. I forgot girls for at least a day or so.

    Apple are off the boil. Sadly they haven't done anything interesting or important in about 5 years. The same can be said for Google, Facebook, Twitter.


    Agree Apple and Twitter....Google and Facebook lots going on.
    Google and Facebook are better at giving the impression they are doing something. But none of Google's much lauded inventions has actually been a hit.
    There's an interesting question: what'll be the next massively disruptive consumer tech?

    Anyone who can answer that is probably already too rich to read PB. ;)
    Mixed Reality has a good shot if they can sort out the hardware.

    Magic Leap has got many billions in funding for a product (which we only know is some sort of MR device) that nobody is allowed to see without an incredibly tight NDA.

    Will they crack it, I don't know. But being able to mix the real world with overlayed computer generated information / visuals seamlessly would be massive applications in every possible sector.
  • Jonathan said:

    Omnium said:

    Speedy said:

    TSE Do I take it that you are unimpressed with Liam Fox?

    He is unimpressed for anyone not called George Osborne.

    I have critizised Fox in the past, but Fox is right this time.

    It's not just british big businesses though that have become "lazy and fat", all large corporations eventually become like that, just look this month at Apple with their crappy iPhone 7 and Samsung with their exploding Galaxy 7.
    I can name two British companies that are generally doing very well: Dyson and JCB. They have one major thing in common that might point to the problem confronting other companies: ownership and finance.

    To defend Apple (spit): as the competition grows better, it's hard to be revolutionary rather than evolutionary. Some have managed it though: https://www.clove.co.uk/cat-s60

    To defend Samsung (spit from Mrs J): this could strike any company that is pushing the envelope. It's just with batteries the consequences of failure can be dire.
    Apple are a great company. They rip us all off, but they do tell us how.

    But anyway Apple are great because their products are great. If you unboxed (I'm coming to live with that term) an apple product in the 80s or 90s you saw their attention to detail. I acquired an Apple II computer when I was about 16 or 17. I forgot girls for at least a day or so.

    Apple are off the boil. Sadly they haven't done anything interesting or important in about 5 years. The same can be said for Google, Facebook, Twitter.


    Agree Apple and Twitter....Google and Facebook lots going on.
    Google and Facebook are better at giving the impression they are doing something. But none of Google's much lauded inventions has actually been a hit.
    There's an interesting question: what'll be the next massively disruptive consumer tech?

    Anyone who can answer that is probably already too rich to read PB. ;)
    I'm looking forward to a middle age filled with mind reading devices (and first, complete crap. then hopefully something better).

    Things like VR are playing around the margins, I wonder if the right product to take them mainstream will ever appear. I always think about voice-to-text and how it remains patchy after years of innovation.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 38,135
    Just to underline how badly things are going in Japan, Sony are selling three year paper with a 0.05% interest rate and they are barely at investment grade according to western ratings agencies.

    One wonders whether it might be time to think of a new policy.
  • MaxPB said:

    Just to underline how badly things are going in Japan, Sony are selling three year paper with a 0.05% interest rate and they are barely at investment grade according to western ratings agencies.

    One wonders whether it might be time to think of a new policy.

    What do you make of the PS4 Plus? Seems like a lot of very negative reaction and we know that their VR tech is miles behind Vive.
  • Jonathan said:

    Omnium said:

    Speedy said:

    TSE Do I take it that you are unimpressed with Liam Fox?

    He is unimpressed for anyone not called George Osborne.

    I have critizised Fox in the past, but Fox is right this time.

    It's not just british big businesses though that have become "lazy and fat", all large corporations eventually become like that, just look this month at Apple with their crappy iPhone 7 and Samsung with their exploding Galaxy 7.
    I can name two British companies that are generally doing very well: Dyson and JCB. They have one major thing in common that might point to the problem confronting other companies: ownership and finance.

    To defend Apple (spit): as the competition grows better, it's hard to be revolutionary rather than evolutionary. Some have managed it though: https://www.clove.co.uk/cat-s60

    To defend Samsung (spit from Mrs J): this could strike any company that is pushing the envelope. It's just with batteries the consequences of failure can be dire.
    Apple are a great company. They rip us all off, but they do tell us how.

    But anyway Apple are great because their products are great. If you unboxed (I'm coming to live with that term) an apple product in the 80s or 90s you saw their attention to detail. I acquired an Apple II computer when I was about 16 or 17. I forgot girls for at least a day or so.

    Apple are off the boil. Sadly they haven't done anything interesting or important in about 5 years. The same can be said for Google, Facebook, Twitter.


    Agree Apple and Twitter....Google and Facebook lots going on.
    Google and Facebook are better at giving the impression they are doing something. But none of Google's much lauded inventions has actually been a hit.
    There's an interesting question: what'll be the next massively disruptive consumer tech?

    Anyone who can answer that is probably already too rich to read PB. ;)
    I'm looking forward to a middle age filled with mind reading devices (and first, complete crap. then hopefully something better).

    Things like VR are playing around the margins, I wonder if the right product to take them mainstream will ever appear. I always think about voice-to-text and how it remains patchy after years of innovation.
    VR no...and definitely not current generation of hardware, it ain't all that. AR / MR is really where the opportunities are.
  • OmniumOmnium Posts: 10,468
    MikeK said:

    Jonathan said:

    Omnium said:

    Speedy said:

    TSE Do I take it that you are unimpressed with Liam Fox?

    He is unimpressed for anyone not called George Osborne.

    I have critizised Fox in the past, but Fox is right this time.

    It's not just british big businesses though that have become "lazy and fat", all large corporations eventually become like that, just look this month at Apple with their crappy iPhone 7 and Samsung with their exploding Galaxy 7.
    I can name two British companies that are generally doing very well: Dyson and JCB. They have one major thing in common that might point to the problem confronting other companies: ownership and finance.

    To defend Apple (spit): as the competition grows better, it's hard to be revolutionary rather than evolutionary. Some have managed it though: https://www.clove.co.uk/cat-s60

    To defend Samsung (spit from Mrs J): this could strike any company that is pushing the envelope. It's just with batteries the consequences of failure can be dire.
    Apple are a great company. They rip us all off, but they do tell us how.

    But anyway Apple are great because their products are great. If you unboxed (I'm coming to live with that term) an apple product in the 80s or 90s you saw their attention to detail. I acquired an Apple II computer when I was about 16 or 17. I forgot girls for at least a day or so.

    Apple are off the boil. Sadly they haven't done anything interesting or important in about 5 years. The same can be said for Google, Facebook, Twitter.
    Agree. Apple are still superficially great but they went off the boil when that guiding genius Steve Jobs died. Plenty of R & D around but nothing new and revolutionary in the works; seemingly.
    Apple. In one word you can see why they are a force. They've out-competed one of natures most astonishing works (an actual apple).
  • PlatoSaidPlatoSaid Posts: 10,383
    Anna Firth
    Just love this new sign at Geneva airport #Brexit @SuzanneEvans1 @EliotSmith @DanielJHannan https://t.co/KY0n3sbD6m
  • That one is easy to answer - driverless vehicles.

    Once they get that developed to the stage where you can put your kid in the car and the car drives the kid to school and then drives itself home again empty this technology will cause mayhem in the road passenger and freight industry with hundreds of thousands of lorry van and taxi drivers out of a job and most of the car insurance industry out of a job because there will be about five policies taken out in the uk all by vehicle manufacturers.

    This has been discussed on here before: IMO they'll have to get cars past the smoke and mirrors they're using at the moment. They're *nowhere* near doing what you want reliably. Yes, they can do the easy things by 'cheating'. They can't do the hard things.

    But I was more talking about consumer electronics: the devices that we use every day scarcely with scarcely thinking; the devices that cost sub-£1000 and many people can easily change every year or two.

    Here's one: personal biometrics. Measuring and monitoring our health. Most of the tech's there it needs joining up and completing.

    It could be a real life-saver, especially if unintrusive in use. As ever, there are privacy implications.
  • weejonnieweejonnie Posts: 3,820
    MaxPB said:

    Alistair said:

    weejonnie said:

    I'm not so sure Clinton's comments are far off "doing a Ratner" either. If you are a politician, your stock in trade is the ordinary voter.

    Clinton lost the CiC debate heavily and is panicking. She is under a lot of stress as the pussycat she thought she was fighting seems to have grown teeth.
    She really didn't.
    Judging by the reaction from the Clinton camp since then, they clearly think they lost.
    NBC agree : their poll 63:37 in favour of Trump http://www.nbcnews.com/storyline/commander-in-chief-forum

    And remember what happened to Romney when he had a good and a bad debate.

    This has been Clinton's worst week of the campaign until the next one.
  • That one is easy to answer - driverless vehicles.

    Once they get that developed to the stage where you can put your kid in the car and the car drives the kid to school and then drives itself home again empty this technology will cause mayhem in the road passenger and freight industry with hundreds of thousands of lorry van and taxi drivers out of a job and most of the car insurance industry out of a job because there will be about five policies taken out in the uk all by vehicle manufacturers.

    This has been discussed on here before: IMO they'll have to get cars past the smoke and mirrors they're using at the moment. They're *nowhere* near doing what you want reliably. Yes, they can do the easy things by 'cheating'. They can't do the hard things.

    But I was more talking about consumer electronics: the devices that we use every day scarcely with scarcely thinking; the devices that cost sub-£1000 and many people can easily change every year or two.

    Here's one: personal biometrics. Measuring and monitoring our health. Most of the tech's there it needs joining up and completing.

    It could be a real life-saver, especially if unintrusive in use. As ever, there are privacy implications.
    OK, so question: what tech currently costs thousands that one day might costs hundreds of pounds for a much improved version?
  • PlatoSaid said:

    ITV
    French police find second car containing gas cylinders https://t.co/2hkhaGRY68 https://t.co/FLQoEJ2dmu

    Not terrorism, It's delboy & Rodney's latest money making scheme.
    Alright, Dave?
  • That one is easy to answer - driverless vehicles.

    Once they get that developed to the stage where you can put your kid in the car and the car drives the kid to school and then drives itself home again empty this technology will cause mayhem in the road passenger and freight industry with hundreds of thousands of lorry van and taxi drivers out of a job and most of the car insurance industry out of a job because there will be about five policies taken out in the uk all by vehicle manufacturers.

    This has been discussed on here before: IMO they'll have to get cars past the smoke and mirrors they're using at the moment. They're *nowhere* near doing what you want reliably. Yes, they can do the easy things by 'cheating'. They can't do the hard things.

    But I was more talking about consumer electronics: the devices that we use every day scarcely with scarcely thinking; the devices that cost sub-£1000 and many people can easily change every year or two.

    Here's one: personal biometrics. Measuring and monitoring our health. Most of the tech's there it needs joining up and completing.

    It could be a real life-saver, especially if unintrusive in use. As ever, there are privacy implications.
    I have a nominal bet with my brother about this... will a commercially available vehicle be able to take you down the A14 by 2020? My "money" is on "no".
  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 21,910
    malcolmg said:

    GIN1138 said:

    malcolmg said:

    GIN1138 said:

    MaxPB said:

    I have to say that the Clinton campaign is eerily similar to the BSE campaign. Her latest insult to Trump voters is reminiscent of Dave's "little Englander" comment. It's just going to make people rally around him.

    Who will rock up and tell the Yanks they'll be "at the back of the queue" if they dare to vote for The Donald? :smiley:
    GIN, thought you were going out, you not able to find those union jack underpants
    I'm staying in to wave my Union Jack flags in front of the telly! :smiley:
    Sounds good idea, hopefully with a few refreshments
    I'm always well refreshed... As you may have noticed! :smiley:
  • PlatoSaid said:

    Anna Firth
    Just love this new sign at Geneva airport #Brexit @SuzanneEvans1 @EliotSmith @DanielJHannan https://t.co/KY0n3sbD6m

    Woohoo, can't wait for the interminable waits in the non-EU line.
  • PlatoSaidPlatoSaid Posts: 10,383
    edited September 2016
    I'd two colleagues who ended up there

    Jake Tapper
    Great @nprscottsimon piece on the folks rerouted to and stranded in Newfoundland on 9/11 -- https://t.co/ppwgQtQHsB

    38 jumbo jets on the tarmac!
  • MaxPB said:

    Alistair said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Alistair said:

    PlatoSaid said:

    glw said:

    The daft thing was, Gerald Ratner's comments tarnished his own brand, Fox only damages himself. - However to be fair, on this occasion Fox may have a point.

    Ratner was right, the products he sold were crap. Fox is right as well, British businesses could do a lot more to develop their export business.

    In Ratner's case telling the truth was a disaster, but Fox might provoke a wider debate about why British businesses don't do as well as they might.
    He wasn't. I got married in 1988. My wedding ring came from Ratners - it's an eternity ring sort with lots of small diamonds. Never been off my finger since bar a couple of times and still perfect. The settings haven't bent, clicked clothes and all the stones are there/still sparkly.

    The mistake Ratner made was to insult his customers re the average quality of what they sold. IIRC he was referring to cheap decanters or somesuch, not the jewellery.

    IIRC it cost about £250 back then. It was bought on HP!
    He specifically referred to the jewlerry.
    I don't think that's true. I think he said "people ask me how I can sell a cut glass decanter and four glasses for twenty quid. And I say, because it's crap."
    He called earings they sold as being of less than stellar quality later in the speech.
    Something about prawn sandwiches, no?
    “We also do cut-glass sherry decanters complete with six glasses on a silver-plated tray that your butler can serve you drinks on, all for £4.95. People say, "How can you sell this for such a low price?", I say, "because it's total crap."[7] ”
    He compounded this by going on to remark that some of the earrings were "cheaper than an M&S prawn sandwich but probably wouldn't last as long."
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gerald_Ratner
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    PlatoSaid said:

    glw said:

    The daft thing was, Gerald Ratner's comments tarnished his own brand, Fox only damages himself. - However to be fair, on this occasion Fox may have a point.

    Ratner was right, the products he sold were crap. Fox is right as well, British businesses could do a lot more to develop their export business.

    In Ratner's case telling the truth was a disaster, but Fox might provoke a wider debate about why British businesses don't do as well as they might.
    He wasn't. I got married in 1988. My wedding ring came from Ratners - it's an eternity ring sort with lots of small diamonds. Never been off my finger since bar a couple of times and still perfect. The settings haven't bent, clicked clothes and all the stones are there/still sparkly.

    The mistake Ratner made was to insult his customers re the average quality of what they sold. IIRC he was referring to cheap decanters or somesuch, not the jewellery.

    IIRC it cost about £250 back then. It was bought on HP!
    It was earrings that cost less than a prawn sandwich at M&S - and didn't last as long. The "crap" comment related to a sherry decanter 4 glasses and a silver tray for less than a tenner
  • not_on_firenot_on_fire Posts: 4,388
    edited September 2016

    Jonathan said:

    Omnium said:

    Speedy said:

    TSE Do I take it that you are unimpressed with Liam Fox?

    He is unimpressed for anyone not called George Osborne.

    I have critizised Fox in the past, but Fox is right this time.

    It's not just british big businesses though that have become "lazy and fat", all large corporations eventually become like that, just look this month at Apple with their crappy iPhone 7 and Samsung with their exploding Galaxy 7.
    I can defend Apple (spit): as the competition grows better, it's hard to be revolutionary rather than evolutionary. Some have managed it though: https://www.clove.co.uk/cat-s60

    To defend Samsung (spit from Mrs J): this could strike any company that is pushing the envelope. It's just with batteries the consequences of failure can be dire.
    Apple are a great company. They rip us all off, but they do tell us how.

    But anyway Apple are great because their products are great. If you unboxed (I'm coming to live with that term) an apple product in the 80s or 90s you saw their attention to detail. I acquired an Apple II computer when I was about 16 or 17. I forgot girls for at least a day or so.

    Apple are off the boil. Sadly they haven't done anything interesting or important in about 5 years. The same can be said for Google, Facebook, Twitter.


    Agree Apple and Twitter....Google and Facebook lots going on.
    Google and Facebook are better at giving the impression they are doing something. But none of Google's much lauded inventions has actually been a hit.
    There's an interesting question: what'll be the next massively disruptive consumer tech?

    Anyone who can answer that is probably already too rich to read PB. ;)
    That one is easy to answer - driverless vehicles.

    Once they get that developed to the stage where you can put your kid in the car and the car drives the kid to school and then drives itself home again empty this technology will cause mayhem in the road passenger and freight industry with hundreds of thousands of lorry van and taxi drivers out of a job and most of the car insurance industry out of a job because there will be about five policies taken out in the uk all by vehicle manufacturers.
    The car won't go home empty, it will spend the day driving round as a taxi earning its owner money. But hardly anyone will need to own a car. Most people will be able to use a driverless version of Uber for short trips and maybe hire one for weekend away.
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 22,571
    75% OF ALL FUNDS RECEIVED BY OWEN WHO

    Owen Smith has accepted almost £70,000 worth of donations from a businessman whose company was incorporated in the Cayman Islands. Smith took £67,550 from financial services guru Anthony Watson to help pay the rent for his campaign office. As Guido has previously revealed, Watson’s company Uphold Inc was originally registered in the Caymans. He took charge of the firm in April 2015, when it went by the name Bitreserve. U.S. Securities and Exchange Commission documents seen by Guido show that Bitreserve’s jurisdiction of incorporation was the Caymans. Its address is a PO box.



    The largest donor to the Owen Smith campaign runs a company incorporated in the tax-free Caymans…


    EAGLE SPINS CAYMANS AIDE ROW


    Following Guido’s revelation that the firm run by Labour’s new business tsar was incorporated in the Caymans, the FT’s Jim Pickard has asked Angela Eagle for a comment on her “ethical” business adviser. Eagle replied that Anthony Watson’s company “pays taxes in all the jurisdictions in which it operates”. What is the corporate tax rate in the Cayman Islands? Zero percent. Ian Cameron’s Panama fund paid taxes in all the jurisdictions in which it operated, and Labour said that was morally disgusting…
  • That one is easy to answer - driverless vehicles.

    Once they get that developed to the stage where you can put your kid in the car and the car drives the kid to school and then drives itself home again empty this technology will cause mayhem in the road passenger and freight industry with hundreds of thousands of lorry van and taxi drivers out of a job and most of the car insurance industry out of a job because there will be about five policies taken out in the uk all by vehicle manufacturers.

    This has been discussed on here before: IMO they'll have to get cars past the smoke and mirrors they're using at the moment. They're *nowhere* near doing what you want reliably. Yes, they can do the easy things by 'cheating'. They can't do the hard things.

    But I was more talking about consumer electronics: the devices that we use every day scarcely with scarcely thinking; the devices that cost sub-£1000 and many people can easily change every year or two.

    Here's one: personal biometrics. Measuring and monitoring our health. Most of the tech's there it needs joining up and completing.

    It could be a real life-saver, especially if unintrusive in use. As ever, there are privacy implications.
    I have a nominal bet with my brother about this... will a commercially available vehicle be able to take you down the A14 by 2020? My "money" is on "no".
    Given the new A14 roadworks are due to begin soon, they might have miles of cones to deal with as well. ;)
  • Jonathan said:

    Omnium said:

    Speedy said:

    TSE Do I take it that you are unimpressed with Liam Fox?

    He is unimpressed for anyone not called George Osborne.

    I have critizised Fox in the past, but Fox is right this time.

    It's not just british big businesses though that have become "lazy and fat", all large corporations eventually become like that, just look this month at Apple with their crappy iPhone 7 and Samsung with their exploding Galaxy 7.
    I can name two British companies that are generally doing very well: Dyson and JCB. They have one major thing in common that might point to the problem confronting other companies: ownership and finance.

    To defend Apple (spit): as the competition grows better, it's hard to be revolutionary rather than evolutionary. Some have managed it though: https://www.clove.co.uk/cat-s60

    To defend Samsung (spit from Mrs J): this could strike any company that is pushing the envelope. It's just with batteries the consequences of failure can be dire.
    Apple are a great company. They rip us all off, but they do tell us how.

    But anyway Apple are great because their products are great. If you unboxed (I'm coming to live with that term) an apple product in the 80s or 90s you saw their attention to detail. I acquired an Apple II computer when I was about 16 or 17. I forgot girls for at least a day or so.

    Apple are off the boil. Sadly they haven't done anything interesting or important in about 5 years. The same can be said for Google, Facebook, Twitter.


    Agree Apple and Twitter....Google and Facebook lots going on.
    Google and Facebook are better at giving the impression they are doing something. But none of Google's much lauded inventions has actually been a hit.
    There's an interesting question: what'll be the next massively disruptive consumer tech?

    Anyone who can answer that is probably already too rich to read PB. ;)
    The Self-Writing AV thread?
  • PlatoSaid said:

    Anna Firth
    Just love this new sign at Geneva airport #Brexit @SuzanneEvans1 @EliotSmith @DanielJHannan https://t.co/KY0n3sbD6m

    There are not many countries in the world who would justify their flag in a place of prominence like that. Note that the icelandic and Norwegian flags are not festured even though the same applies to them, nor is lichenstein even tbough it borders Switzerland
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 94,914
    PlatoSaid said:

    Anna Firth
    Just love this new sign at Geneva airport #Brexit @SuzanneEvans1 @EliotSmith @DanielJHannan https://t.co/KY0n3sbD6m

    Seem to recall they got those signs up basically within days of the vote?
  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670
    weejonnie said:

    MaxPB said:

    Alistair said:

    weejonnie said:

    I'm not so sure Clinton's comments are far off "doing a Ratner" either. If you are a politician, your stock in trade is the ordinary voter.

    Clinton lost the CiC debate heavily and is panicking. She is under a lot of stress as the pussycat she thought she was fighting seems to have grown teeth.
    She really didn't.
    Judging by the reaction from the Clinton camp since then, they clearly think they lost.
    NBC agree : their poll 63:37 in favour of Trump http://www.nbcnews.com/storyline/commander-in-chief-forum

    And remember what happened to Romney when he had a good and a bad debate.

    This has been Clinton's worst week of the campaign until the next one.
    You missed out the word voodoo from that phrase.
  • PlatoSaid said:

    Anna Firth
    Just love this new sign at Geneva airport #Brexit @SuzanneEvans1 @EliotSmith @DanielJHannan https://t.co/KY0n3sbD6m

    Woohoo, can't wait for the interminable waits in the non-EU line.
    We are not in the non eu line. We are in the same line as EU and Swiss.
  • PlatoSaid said:

    Anna Firth
    Just love this new sign at Geneva airport #Brexit @SuzanneEvans1 @EliotSmith @DanielJHannan https://t.co/KY0n3sbD6m

    Woohoo, can't wait for the interminable waits in the non-EU line.
    We are not in the non eu line. We are in the same line as EU and Swiss.
    But at the back of the queue?
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 41,293
    edited September 2016

    Jonathan said:

    Omnium said:

    Speedy said:

    TSE Do I take it that you are unimpressed with Liam Fox?

    He is unimpressed for anyone not called George Osborne.

    I have critizised Fox in the past, but Fox is right this time.

    It's not just british big businesses though that have become "lazy and fat", all large corporations eventually become like that, just look this month at Apple with their crappy iPhone 7 and Samsung with their exploding Galaxy 7.
    I can name two British companies that are generally doing very well: Dyson and JCB. They have one major thing in common that might point to the problem confronting other companies: ownership and finance.

    To defend Apple (spit): as the competition grows better, it's hard to be revolutionary rather than evolutionary. Some have managed it though: https://www.clove.co.uk/cat-s60

    To defend Samsung (spit from Mrs J): this could strike any company that is pushing the envelope. It's just with batteries the consequences of failure can be dire.
    Apple are a great company. They rip us all off, but they do tell us how.

    But anyway Apple are great because their products are great. If you unboxed (I'm coming to live with that term) an apple product in the 80s or 90s you saw their attention to detail. I acquired an Apple II computer when I was about 16 or 17. I forgot girls for at least a day or so.

    Apple are off the boil. Sadly they haven't done anything interesting or important in about 5 years. The same can be said for Google, Facebook, Twitter.


    Agree Apple and Twitter....Google and Facebook lots going on.
    Google and Facebook are better at giving the impression they are doing something. But none of Google's much lauded inventions has actually been a hit.
    There's an interesting question: what'll be the next massively disruptive consumer tech?

    Anyone who can answer that is probably already too rich to read PB. ;)
    The Self-Writing AV thread?
    We'll really have brilliant AI when someone writes an insult generator that matches SeanT's output in quality.

    Malc's already been done Just insert 'turnip' after every word. ;)
  • ParistondaParistonda Posts: 1,843

    PlatoSaid said:

    Anna Firth
    Just love this new sign at Geneva airport #Brexit @SuzanneEvans1 @EliotSmith @DanielJHannan https://t.co/KY0n3sbD6m

    There are not many countries in the world who would justify their flag in a place of prominence like that. Note that the icelandic and Norwegian flags are not festured even though the same applies to them, nor is lichenstein even tbough it borders Switzerland
    Is a FTA with Switzerland a likely bet soon after we leave the EU, seems like they would be a better focus of attention than most other countries thrown around at the moment?
  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670
    edited September 2016
    PB denzines may have missed that Trump "correcting" the questioner about the number of military suicides at the Commander-In-Chief forum has gone over very, very badly given that Trump was wrong.

    There was post debate footage where they talked to the questioners are on the military suicides question the questioner was very unhappy with his answer.

  • The car won't go home empty, it will spend the day driving round as a taxi earning its owner money. But hardly anyone will need to own a car. Most people will be able to use a driverless version of Uber for short trips and maybe hire one for weekend away.

    Im not so sure of that one. I dont want the great unwashed riding about in my car and leaving their body fluids and odors along with the residue of their food on the seats. Yuck. I might catch something.
  • PlatoSaid said:

    Anna Firth
    Just love this new sign at Geneva airport #Brexit @SuzanneEvans1 @EliotSmith @DanielJHannan https://t.co/KY0n3sbD6m

    There are not many countries in the world who would justify their flag in a place of prominence like that. Note that the icelandic and Norwegian flags are not festured even though the same applies to them, nor is lichenstein even tbough it borders Switzerland
    Is a FTA with Switzerland a likely bet soon after we leave the EU, seems like they would be a better focus of attention than most other countries thrown around at the moment?
    If we stay in EEA/EFTA we get one thrown in free.
  • PlatoSaidPlatoSaid Posts: 10,383
    edited September 2016
    .

    Old data
  • OmniumOmnium Posts: 10,468

    PlatoSaid said:

    Anna Firth
    Just love this new sign at Geneva airport #Brexit @SuzanneEvans1 @EliotSmith @DanielJHannan https://t.co/KY0n3sbD6m

    There are not many countries in the world who would justify their flag in a place of prominence like that. Note that the icelandic and Norwegian flags are not festured even though the same applies to them, nor is lichenstein even tbough it borders Switzerland
    That's wrong though. Any country sees their own interests as paramount. If you fly multiple flags then you choose a ranking. On state visits there's an honorary equal ranking given to whoever it is by flying the flags at the same level. You should fly your own flag highest unless you are being particularly ingratiating to someone else. You should never fly your own flag below another.
This discussion has been closed.