What ever these self important idiots think it will be Germany that calls the shots.
Give them a year post Article 50 and then do hard Brexit and not waste anymore time.
More specifically the leaders of the German car industry will put those idiotic eurocrats in their box. Indeed I expect Juncker's will not survive 2017
Drunker is the proverbial cooked bread, only surviving because of his own ego (and a lack of process to force him out).
The EU and Juncker remind me quite a lot of FIFA and Sepp Blatter...
Just like we were going to plead for a peace treaty after the fall of France.
They have learned nothing.
Tossers.
It's a different They, the Second World War would have been easier if it had been Britain vs Luxembourg. And this time it's the Germans who are supposed to help Britain, whereas in WW2 the Germans were being positively hostile.
It's weird seeing the theory about Germany saving Britain trotted out again. Previously it was supposed to happen over Juncker's appointment, then over Cameron's renegotiation. These things don't work out the way British right-wingers say they will because: 1) German influence, although important, is less all-encompassing than they think. 2) German interests, although somewhat aligned with British interests, are less so than they think.
“However, be in no doubt that Jeremy Corbyn’s record of incompetence can easily match my own, on top of which he is a total nutter who keeps a photo of Lenin in his wallet to consult at difficult times.
It is going to be a pigs ear, and we are likely to be over a barrel taking an unsatisfactory deal, unless we plan for a hard Brexit.
It would be a dereliction of duty for a Prime Minister to put the country in that position regardless of the result of a plebiscite. If there's no prospect of a good outcome along the lines that the pro-Brexit camp were anticipating, she needs to find a way to kick Article 50 into the long grass indefinitely.
Some things are beyond the wit of mortal men or women. Article 50 kicks off negotiations. Until we have those negotiations, all the sabre rattling from us and the EU does not really give a great deal of indication about what might be possible, what our prospect of a good deal will be, that was always a part of the risk, and it is to no one;s shame if they felt that risk too great.
But given we won't know what outcome we will get until after Article 50, and given that most commentators seem to regard declaring article 50 as a one way ticket (in a legal sense, with some seeing the referendum as a one way ticket politically) - I've seen some pieces suggesting it could be halted after it was declared, but frankly that seems even more improbable; what would the EU demand of us if we changed our tunes at that point because they beat us out in negotiations? - then how can Article 50 be kicked into the long grass? How would it be justified? Opposing a referendum outcome would require a heck of a lot to back up such a position, and saying we cannot declare and begin negotiations as we'd do a shit job doesn't seem particularly strong as arguments go.
Team GB are absolutely storming tonight....medal after medal after medal. It's a great shame Sky do not give it the coverage they give the other olympics.
Just watched a one legged high jumper clear the bar.....epic !!!
How would it be justified? Opposing a referendum outcome would require a heck of a lot to back up such a position, and saying we cannot declare and begin negotiations as we'd do a shit job doesn't seem particularly strong as arguments go.
The election of Donald Trump as President would be a game changer and would throw open a lot of questions about the future structure and operation of NATO and the WTO. In those circumstances it would be wise to wait to see how things develop first.
How would it be justified? Opposing a referendum outcome would require a heck of a lot to back up such a position, and saying we cannot declare and begin negotiations as we'd do a shit job doesn't seem particularly strong as arguments go.
The election of Donald Trump as President would be a game changer and would throw open a lot of questions about the future structure and operation of NATO and the WTO. In those circumstances it would be wise to wait to see how things develop first.
If Trump tells Europe to cough up 2% or else reducing Nato to US, UK, Canada and possibly France it wont make a great deal of difference in practice, other than giving the EU a bigger headache on their rather large defacto border with Russia.
Team GB are absolutely storming tonight....medal after medal after medal. It's a great shame Sky do not give it the coverage they give the other olympics.
Just watched a one legged high jumper clear the bar.....epic !!!
Channel 4 are doing a great job with their coverage, the nightly comedian-anchored Last Leg program with its irreverent treatment of disability is just brilliant TV.
How would it be justified? Opposing a referendum outcome would require a heck of a lot to back up such a position, and saying we cannot declare and begin negotiations as we'd do a shit job doesn't seem particularly strong as arguments go.
The election of Donald Trump as President would be a game changer and would throw open a lot of questions about the future structure and operation of NATO and the WTO. In those circumstances it would be wise to wait to see how things develop first.
If Trump tells Europe to cough up 2% or else reducing Nato to US, UK, Canada and possibly France it wont make a great deal of difference in practice, other than giving the EU a bigger headache on their rather large defacto border with Russia.
"Kaliningrad is the testicle of Russia. When I want the Russians to scream, I squeeze on Kaliningrad!"
Did that amount to €18 billion worth of business ?
German carmakers raise fears over Brexit - FT.com www.ft.com › GlobalEconomy › EU Economy 2 Jul 2015 - German car exports to the UK last year were worth nearly €18bn, and carmakers such as Volkswagen, which owns Bentley, and BMW, owner of ...
EU GDP is $16.2 trillion, an £18bn industry is not going to be controlling anything. The self-delusion is amazing.
How would it be justified? Opposing a referendum outcome would require a heck of a lot to back up such a position, and saying we cannot declare and begin negotiations as we'd do a shit job doesn't seem particularly strong as arguments go.
The election of Donald Trump as President would be a game changer and would throw open a lot of questions about the future structure and operation of NATO and the WTO. In those circumstances it would be wise to wait to see how things develop first.
In fairness, many things might make delays in formal declaration more reasonable, particularly if there is clear progress being made informally.
Night all. I must say, advertising is getting more direct if the Times is an indication with the instruction 'Eat!' about a new cook book. Or is that the title perchance?
Team GB are absolutely storming tonight....medal after medal after medal. It's a great shame Sky do not give it the coverage they give the other olympics.
Just watched a one legged high jumper clear the bar.....epic !!!
Isn't it amazing! I'm following the Para team and coverage on Twitter - the medals keep on coming
It is going to be a pigs ear, and we are likely to be over a barrel taking an unsatisfactory deal, unless we plan for a hard Brexit.
It would be a dereliction of duty for a Prime Minister to put the country in that position regardless of the result of a plebiscite. If there's no prospect of a good outcome along the lines that the pro-Brexit camp were anticipating, she needs to find a way to kick Article 50 into the long grass indefinitely.
Some things are beyond the wit of mortal men or women. Article 50 kicks off negotiations. Until we have those negotiations, all the sabre rattling from us and the EU does not really give a great deal of indication about what might be possible, what our prospect of a good deal will be, that was always a part of the risk, and it is to no one;s shame if they felt that risk too great.
But given we won't know what outcome we will get until after Article 50, and given that most commentators seem to regard declaring article 50 as a one way ticket (in a legal sense, with some seeing the referendum as a one way ticket politically) - I've seen some pieces suggesting it could be halted after it was declared, but frankly that seems even more improbable; what would the EU demand of us if we changed our tunes at that point because they beat us out in negotiations? - then how can Article 50 be kicked into the long grass? How would it be justified? Opposing a referendum outcome would require a heck of a lot to back up such a position, and saying we cannot declare and begin negotiations as we'd do a shit job doesn't seem particularly strong as arguments go.
Procedurally I think withdrawing Article 50 is probably doable. If Britain notified the Council that they wanted to stay after all and just forget the whole thing, everybody would be relieved and I doubt anybody would sue to force Britain to leave, and if they did it's not clear they'd win.
That's hard to see politically, though. If the issue is that the EU has offered the UK a shitty deal, people of a nationalistic persuasion are just going to be even more narked off. You could conceivably do it if you bad a change of government in between, but that won't happen because Jeremy Corbyn.
'EU GDP is $16.2 trillion, an £18bn industry is not going to be controlling anything. The self-delusion is amazing.'
So why all the fuss from the German car industry,assume Merkel can just choose to ignore them.
It's not complicated. She'll take their concerns seriously, but she has a lot of other concerns too. Germany's opinion will then be important, but there are other countries in the EU too.
It is going to be a pigs ear, and we are likely to be over a barrel taking an unsatisfactory deal, unless we plan for a hard Brexit.
It would be a dereliction of duty for a Prime Minister to put the country in that position regardless of the result of a plebiscite. If there's no prospect of a good outcome along the lines that the pro-Brexit camp were anticipating, she needs to find a way to kick Article 50 into the long grass indefinitely.
Some things are beyond the wit of mortal men or women. Article 50 kicks off negotiations. Until we have those negotiations, all the sabre rattling from us and the EU does not really give a great deal of indication about what might be possible, what our prospect of a good deal will be, that was always a part of the risk, and it is to no one;s shame if they felt that risk too great.
But given we won't know what outcome we will get until after Article 50, and given that most commentators seem to regard declaring article 50 as a one way ticket (in a legal sense, with some seeing the referendum as a one way ticket politically) - I've seen some pieces suggesting it could be halted after it was declared, but frankly that seems even more improbable; what would the EU demand of us if we changed our tunes at that point because they beat us out in negotiations? - then how can Article 50 be kicked into the long grass? How would it be justified? Opposing a referendum outcome would require a heck of a lot to back up such a position, and saying we cannot declare and begin negotiations as we'd do a shit job doesn't seem particularly strong as arguments go.
Procedurally I think withdrawing Article 50 is probably doable. If Britain notified the Council that they wanted to stay after all and just forget the whole thing, everybody would be relieved and I doubt anybody would sue to force Britain to leave, and if they did it's not clear they'd win.
That's hard to see politically, though. If the issue is that the EU has offered the UK a shitty deal, people of a nationalistic persuasion are just going to be even more narked off. You could conceivably do it if you bad a change of government in between, but that won't happen because Jeremy Corbyn.
I think the EU Commission are very keen to offer the UK a shitty deal to teach us - and any other budding miscreants, by proxy - a good lesson.
But, that would do nothing more than poison UK-EU relations for years, which would not be in the interests of its remaining member states.
I think the EU Commission are very keen to offer the UK a shitty deal to teach us - and any other budding miscreants, by proxy - a good lesson.
But, that would do nothing more than poison UK-EU relations for years, which would not be in the interests of its remaining member states.
It would be wholly stupid on their part, as they don't have the means to make Britain an economic failure. We will still be able to trade into the EU (slightly more expensively) and we're more likely to pursue other economic opportunities with greater vigour. If you can't utterly destroy your enemy, it's not worth antagonising them. Machiavelli taught us that. It would in fact demonstrate the success of a totally clean break from the EU.
Their strategy should actually be to try to get Britain to subscribe to 'EU-lite' as much as possible, and try and extract the maximum fee for doing so.
Their strategy should actually be to try to get Britain to subscribe to 'EU-lite' as much as possible, and try and extract the maximum fee for doing so.
I agree with most of that except the last bit - the maximum fee. If the strategy is not to antagonize, they should be magnanimous in 'victory'. I.e. they should offer us a reasonable fee.
A somewhat misleading introductory para from the Guardian:
British citizens may have to apply online and pay to travel to Europe after the UK leaves the EU, under plans being drawn up by the bloc for a visa waiver programme similar to the US system.
Because as the article goes on to explain, its because we're outside Schengen.....so even if we stayed in the EU it would still have applied. The 'after the UK leaves the EU' part is simply a function of time, not causality.....presumably Irish passport holders will also have to apply....
It is going to be a pigs ear, and we are likely to be over a barrel taking an unsatisfactory deal, unless we plan for a hard Brexit.
It would be a dereliction of duty for a Prime Minister to put the country in that position regardless of the result of a plebiscite. If there's no prospect of a good outcome along the lines that the pro-Brexit camp were anticipating, she needs to find a way to kick Article 50 into the long grass indefinitely.
Some things are beyond the wit of mortal men or women. Article 50 kicks off negotiations. Until we have those negotiations, all the sabre rattling from us and the EU does not really give a great deal of indication about what might be possible, what our prospect of a good deal will be, that was always a part of the risk, and it is to no one;s shame if they felt that risk too great.
But given we won't know what outcome we will get until after Article 50, and given that most commentators seem to regard declaring article 50 as a one way ticket (in a legal sense, with some seeing the referendum as a one way ticket politically) - I've seen some pieces suggesting it could be halted after it was declared, but frankly that seems even more improbable; what would the EU demand of us if we changed our tunes at that point because they beat us out in negotiations? - then how can Article 50 be kicked into the long grass? How would it be justified? Opposing a referendum outcome would require a heck of a lot to back up such a position, and saying we cannot declare and begin negotiations as we'd do a shit job doesn't seem particularly strong as arguments go.
Procedurally I think withdrawing Article 50 is probably doable. If Britain notified the Council that they wanted to stay after all and just forget the whole thing, everybody would be relieved and I doubt anybody would sue to force Britain to leave, and if they did it's not clear they'd win.
That's hard to see politically, though. If the issue is that the EU has offered the UK a shitty deal, people of a nationalistic persuasion are just going to be even more narked off. You could conceivably do it if you bad a change of government in between, but that won't happen because Jeremy Corbyn.
I think the EU Commission are very keen to offer the UK a shitty deal to teach us - and any other budding miscreants, by proxy - a good lesson.
But, that would do nothing more than poison UK-EU relations for years, which would not be in the interests of its remaining member states.
Which is why May & Merkel (and whoever replaces Hollande) will want to stitch up a deal between themselves and tell the Commission to 'implement this'.....
You get the feeling from this spate of stories that, far from being confident of having the upper hand as they profess, these Europeans are distinctly nervous.
Which is why May & Merkel (and whoever replaces Hollande) will want to stitch up a deal between themselves and tell the Commission to 'implement this'.....
I can see why they'd want to try to do that but it's not obvious why the rest of the member states, not to mention the EU Parliament, would be interested in going along with it.
That said, the Commission only has control over this process to the extent that the member states are blundering around.
I think the EU Commission are very keen to offer the UK a shitty deal to teach us - and any other budding miscreants, by proxy - a good lesson.
But, that would do nothing more than poison UK-EU relations for years, which would not be in the interests of its remaining member states.
I'm plowing thru this month's Max Hastings ("All Hell Broke Loose") and he points out that a meeting of German industrialists in December 1941 concluded that the war could not be won: Germany simply did not have the resources to fight the Soviet Union an the US combined. Nevertheless, the war continued.
Just because something is stupid doesn't mean that it will not happen.
You get the feeling from this spate of stories that, far from being confident of having the upper hand as they profess, these Europeans are distinctly nervous.
I don't think the quotes really support the story. Dijsselbloem was basically just saying that it's up to Britain, not that we 'must' make up our minds.
Anyhoo, much as I would like to engage in the Eurosceptic echo chamber ("He [Putin] is more our friend than Juncker and co", oh ffs) but I have a serious question. There were rumours of privately commissioned (hedge-fund?) polls on or near polling day on June 23rd. Did anybody ever track these down, or can point to a link? I will say a prayer for you if you can.
...and also, has anybody got a primary source for the Leave.eu poll of 22-23rd June, a secondary source for which is h ttps://twitter.com/jimwaterson/status/746086000514969604/photo/1
...and also, has anybody got a primary source for the Leave.eu poll of 22-23rd June, a secondary source for which is h ttps://twitter.com/jimwaterson/status/746086000514969604/photo/1
The-politicians think I don’t know who they are, but I’m not stupid. I watch Question Time and the news.....
....I am not surprised that Keith Vaz has been caught sleeping with male hookers. I’m one myself and so I know that overweight married Asians are our staple. We often joke that without Indians and-Middle Eastern guys, we’d all be broke. They are always married.
Please Sir! It's not Fair Sir! That Grammar School Girl is Picking on us Sir! Doesn't she know her place?
Will continue, preferably "backed up" (sic) by some dodgy interpretation of polling.....
Still a bit confused about the whole 'every school can be a grammar school'. How does that actually work?
I don't think thats what has actually been proposed.....perhaps the Green Paper will clarify? I'm sure there will be schools who prefer the cold dead hand enlightened guiding light of local politicians & local authorities....
Please Sir! It's not Fair Sir! That Grammar School Girl is Picking on us Sir! Doesn't she know her place?
Will continue, preferably "backed up" (sic) by some dodgy interpretation of polling.....
Still a bit confused about the whole 'every school can be a grammar school'. How does that actually work?
I don't think thats what has actually been proposed.....perhaps the Green Paper will clarify? I'm sure there will be schools who prefer the cold dead hand enlightened guiding light of local politicians & local authorities....
Hm, but the telegraph had that as their headline. Saying that, I wouldn't be surprised given their huge decline in recent years.
The-politicians think I don’t know who they are, but I’m not stupid. I watch Question Time and the news.....
....I am not surprised that Keith Vaz has been caught sleeping with male hookers. I’m one myself and so I know that overweight married Asians are our staple. We often joke that without Indians and-Middle Eastern guys, we’d all be broke. They are always married.
Comments
Not sure if I should be horrified or seriously impressed.
It's weird seeing the theory about Germany saving Britain trotted out again. Previously it was supposed to happen over Juncker's appointment, then over Cameron's renegotiation. These things don't work out the way British right-wingers say they will because:
1) German influence, although important, is less all-encompassing than they think.
2) German interests, although somewhat aligned with British interests, are less so than they think.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3772275/Kenyan-s-enormous-penis-means-sex.html
Does anyone want to suggest to the new government that they investigate how online bookmakers shut your account if you win?
http://www.thedailymash.co.uk/politics/politics-headlines/were-both-shit-but-hes-a-lunatic-says-owen-smith-20160909113559
http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2016/09/03/15/37DD186100000578-0-image-a-22_1472913571490.jpg
Suspicions about the dearth of actual bettors on here confirmed.
"Owen Who" ???
Just like the rest of us...
Plus there is a world shortage of pixels.
But given we won't know what outcome we will get until after Article 50, and given that most commentators seem to regard declaring article 50 as a one way ticket (in a legal sense, with some seeing the referendum as a one way ticket politically) - I've seen some pieces suggesting it could be halted after it was declared, but frankly that seems even more improbable; what would the EU demand of us if we changed our tunes at that point because they beat us out in negotiations? - then how can Article 50 be kicked into the long grass? How would it be justified? Opposing a referendum outcome would require a heck of a lot to back up such a position, and saying we cannot declare and begin negotiations as we'd do a shit job doesn't seem particularly strong as arguments go.
This is an aching sides evening on PB - literally.
Team GB are absolutely storming tonight....medal after medal after medal. It's a great shame Sky do not give it the coverage they give the other olympics.
Just watched a one legged high jumper clear the bar.....epic !!!
https://twitter.com/SkyNews/status/774362943597273088
Far from an eccentric spouting it looks like part of Mrs Mays meritocracy agenda.
US and Russia agree steps to reduce Syria violence
The US and Russia are announcing a plan aimed at ending the Syrian civil war and leading to political transition in the country
EU GDP is $16.2 trillion, an £18bn industry is not going to be controlling anything. The self-delusion is amazing.
Night all. I must say, advertising is getting more direct if the Times is an indication with the instruction 'Eat!' about a new cook book. Or is that the title perchance?
Owen Smith celebrates fighting off hundreds of lads to get his wife
https://t.co/fxqu25dUzU https://t.co/YFx6I1gM2C
Matt, as ever, tells the truth https://t.co/44nCoT2Fti
Striking that Hackney's Tories now actually put the PM on their leaflets. This did not happen with DC. https://t.co/wbo8HnsTt7
'EU GDP is $16.2 trillion, an £18bn industry is not going to be controlling anything. The self-delusion is amazing.'
So why all the fuss from the German car industry,assume Merkel can just choose to ignore them.
That's hard to see politically, though. If the issue is that the EU has offered the UK a shitty deal, people of a nationalistic persuasion are just going to be even more narked off. You could conceivably do it if you bad a change of government in between, but that won't happen because Jeremy Corbyn.
Britain's 12th #gold of the Games is in the bag
Jonnie Peacock, double Paralympic champion
https://t.co/BLq845L5V9 https://t.co/n7f4NHlmz5
Half of me beat 80 million sperm to become me so I know how to swim.
But, that would do nothing more than poison UK-EU relations for years, which would not be in the interests of its remaining member states.
Their strategy should actually be to try to get Britain to subscribe to 'EU-lite' as much as possible, and try and extract the maximum fee for doing so.
British citizens may have to apply online and pay to travel to Europe after the UK leaves the EU, under plans being drawn up by the bloc for a visa waiver programme similar to the US system.
http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/sep/09/britons-may-have-to-apply-to-visit-europe-under-eu-visa-scheme
Because as the article goes on to explain, its because we're outside Schengen.....so even if we stayed in the EU it would still have applied. The 'after the UK leaves the EU' part is simply a function of time, not causality.....presumably Irish passport holders will also have to apply....
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sVJOqziLTxU
http://in.reuters.com/article/britain-eu-eurogroup-idINL8N1BL16L
You get the feeling from this spate of stories that, far from being confident of having the upper hand as they profess, these Europeans are distinctly nervous.
That said, the Commission only has control over this process to the extent that the member states are blundering around.
Just because something is stupid doesn't mean that it will not happen.
http://leave.eu/en/news/7
Please Sir!
It's not Fair Sir!
That Grammar School Girl is Picking on us Sir!
Doesn't she know her place?
Will continue, preferably "backed up" (sic) by some dodgy interpretation of polling.....
The-politicians think I don’t know who they are, but I’m not stupid. I watch Question Time and the news.....
....I am not surprised that Keith Vaz has been caught sleeping with male hookers. I’m one myself and so I know that overweight married Asians are our staple. We often joke that without Indians and-Middle Eastern guys, we’d all be broke. They are always married.
http://www.spectator.co.uk/2016/09/confessions-rent-boy/
http://uk.reuters.com/article/2016/09/09/uk-britain-eu-austria-idukkcn11f2k8
LOL. Welcome to the EU