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Liberal Democrat GAIN Mosborough (Sheffield) from Labour.

Read the full story here

wasd

First?

dr_spyn

third like Labour.

tlg86

Damn discussion ID! Secondary Modern. Borstal.

Ishmael_X

Is Sheffield a city?

Ed. yes it is! and it has the highest ratio of trees to people of any city in Europe.

Sandpit

First after appealing the classification of those in front!

John_M

First, for certain values of first, like victorious comrade Corbyn.

TheScreamingEagles

Ishmael_X said:

Is Sheffield a city?

Since 1893

Toms

Where else can a sensible person vote these days?

Black_Rook

Steady progress by the yellows. Only another half-a-century to go until the next Coalition/self-immolation opportunity. That'll be nice for them.

SimonStClare

'the finest city in the known universe, Sheffield' - Apart from the reek of Henderson’s Relish...

Alistair

People who think politicians can't change the people's mind are wrong

https://twitter.com/williamjordann/status/774230137097379840

PAW

I saw that a particular Poole school had poor results, and mentioned it to a local - he said not surprised as the children are travellers. Another factor in Bournemouth is that the catchment area for the grammer schools is at least as far as Salisbury - there is no preference for local children.

CarlottaVance

First!

There's a Scottish education for you...

Black_Rook

I wonder what excuse the SNP will come up with to justify voting against new grammar schools in England, when the time arrives...

1. Revenge upon the Tories for Brexit
2. Revenge for some other legislative sleight allegedly committed against Scotland
3. That the changes to schooling in England will, through some unspecified and dubious mechanism, impact negatively upon Barnett funding of Scotland
4. To "protest against elitism" (without the inconvenience and drowning risk of swimming into the middle of the Boat Race)
5. Because the voices told us to do it
6. All of the above

Richard_Tyndall

FPT

foxinsoxuk said:

Welcome back.

Do you think that the results in Poole are acceptable?

To be honest I have not seen those results at all so am really not in a position to comment. I just remembered the Sutton Trust report because it was a proper extensive and in depth study by an organisation not usually predisposed to be favourable to academic selection and it ran counter to all the normal claims about Grammars.

Thanks for the welcome back. My absence was mostly due to the referendum. I spent so much time in the months leading up to June campaigning and organising that I had let my business seriously slide and have been playing catch up to improve the bank balance and mollify a few clients. Thankfully I seem to be back to normal now so have more time to discuss politics again.

PlatoSaid

I've never seen a Russian Downfall

Know we've a couple of speakers on here - do they come in all languages?

В нынешней Германии....«Хозяева прячутся от гостей в подвале» https://t.co/zXL4odO1qe

PlatoSaid

Michael Beckel
FEC: Presidential candidates have raised more than $900 million so far this election cycle https://t.co/LD7To6qlNH

MarqueeMark

TheScreamingEagles said:

Ishmael_X said:

Is Sheffield a city?

Since 1893

I think we can now trace back the date from which the term "city" became debased.....

MarqueeMark

Welcome back Mr. Tyndall

Sandpit

Black_Rook said:

I wonder what excuse the SNP will come up with to justify voting against new grammar schools in England, when the time arrives...

1. Revenge upon the Tories for Brexit
2. Revenge for some other legislative sleight allegedly committed against Scotland
3. That the changes to schooling in England will, through some unspecified and dubious mechanism, impact negatively upon Barnett funding of Scotland
4. To "protest against elitism" (without the inconvenience and drowning risk of swimming into the middle of the Boat Race)
5. Because the voices told us to do it
6. All of the above

Ha, very good. Rest assured they'll find a reason why they should vote against something that doesn't affect Scotland in the slightest.

Sandpit

Eurocrats reckon UK will come begging for Brexit deal.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/09/09/uk-completely-lost-post-brexit-and-will-plead-for-a-deal-top-bru/

And they wonder why we wanted to leave.

kle4

I detect a subtle hint of editorial bias in this header. I doubt anyone else noticed it.

glw

Alistair said:

People who think politicians can't change the people's mind are wrong

Hmm, perhaps Trump should consider using those powers for good rather than evil. The right-wing man crush on Putin is perverse, Putin is not America's friend.

kle4

Alistair said:

People who think politicians can't change the people's mind are wrong

https://twitter.com/williamjordann/status/774230137097379840

Amusing stat. Most dare not try of course. Reminds me of a quote I heard once about true democratic leadership being about convincing the public to follow rather than just follow the public.

Most of the political leaders are simply following nationalist and populist rhetoric, and that is for me not a democracy. A democracy, in my opinion, is a political leader developing a vision and then trying to convince the public opinion to follow his vision, and not what is happening now

Has to be said though the person saying it doesn't always seem to follow that 'convince the pubilc opinion' bit, as it was Guy Verhofstadt.

More likely, however, than the great persuasive powers of Trump, is really just how deep tribalism goes.

PlatoSaid

glw said:

Alistair said:

People who think politicians can't change the people's mind are wrong

Hmm, perhaps Trump should consider using those powers for good rather than evil. The right-wing man crush on Putin is perverse, Putin is not America's friend.

And the USA isn't Putin's. Obama and Hillary have no idea how to deal either. Trump's outwitted 16 others to get this far. We could be surprised.

Alistair

PlatoSaid said:

glw said:

Alistair said:

People who think politicians can't change the people's mind are wrong

Hmm, perhaps Trump should consider using those powers for good rather than evil. The right-wing man crush on Putin is perverse, Putin is not America's friend.

And the USA isn't Putin's. Obama and Hillary have no idea how to deal either. Trump's outwitted 16 others to get this far. We could be surprised.

Surprised? I'd be flabbergasted.

foxinsoxuk

Richard_Tyndall said:

FPT

foxinsoxuk said:

Welcome back.

Do you think that the results in Poole are acceptable?

To be honest I have not seen those results at all so am really not in a position to comment. I just remembered the Sutton Trust report because it was a proper extensive and in depth study by an organisation not usually predisposed to be favourable to academic selection and it ran counter to all the normal claims about Grammars.

Thanks for the welcome back. My absence was mostly due to the referendum. I spent so much time in the months leading up to June campaigning and organising that I had let my business seriously slide and have been playing catch up to improve the bank balance and mollify a few clients. Thankfully I seem to be back to normal now so have more time to discuss politics again.

This quote is interesting:

"In total, 250,955 youngsters are being taught in under-performing state secondaries - around 7.3 per cent of the secondary school population, the data reveals. This is down from last year, when the figure was 274,351.

Analysis also shows that five areas have at least 10 under-performing schools. These are Kent (20 schools), Birmingham (11), Lancashire (11), Lincolnshire (10) and Northamptonshire (10). There were 41 areas with no failing schools."

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3410011/How-does-school-GCSEs-New-results-tables-reveal-best-10-England-getting-C-grades.html#ixzz4JnAXq9XZ

It is notable that these under-performing schools are particularly in areas where selection applies, and the remainder of schools are these de-facto Secondary Moderns.

Note that the East Midlands have few excuses, Northants, Leicester and Nottingham have lots of failing schools too, but no state Grammar schools.

There is no magic solution to Britain's longstanding failure of much of the WWC, but I am not at all convinced that May has the answer either.

Indeed the poor retention rates of teachers in the profession (like my own profession) particularly when compared internationally, suggests that the problems are very deep rooted. High turnover of staff is a sign of serious organisational malaise.

Mind you, things are not much better elsewhere. I was talking earlier with one of my Romanian colleagues, who applied for a medical job in Paris, and was offered the job without interview. She contacted the hospital worried that not speaking any French would be a problem, but they told her that they were desperate, and that she should take up the job.

FrancisUrquhart

foxinsoxuk said:

There is no magic solution to Britain's longstanding failure of much of the WWC

KIPPs....

glw

kle4 said:

More likely, however, than the great persuasive powers of Trump, is really just how deep tribalism goes.

Exactly. It's the enemy of my enemy is my friend. Putin and Obama don't like one another. We don't like Obama, therefore we like Putin. Errr no, you can dislike both.

williamglenn

dr_spyn said:

My Name is Ed Balls, Look on my works, ye Mighty, and despair!'

https://twitter.com/Holbornlolz/status/774317430957105152

What a plank.

GIN1138

What do we make of this?

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/09/09/uk-completely-lost-post-brexit-and-will-plead-for-a-deal-top-bru/

Pulpstar

williamglenn said:

dr_spyn said:

My Name is Ed Balls, Look on my works, ye Mighty, and despair!'

https://twitter.com/Holbornlolz/status/774317430957105152

What a plank.

A reassuringly normal kitchen !

williamglenn

Alistair said:

People who think politicians can't change the people's mind are wrong

It could just be an indicator of how successful RT has been in cornering part of the right-wing English language media market.

tlg86

Pulpstar said:

williamglenn said:

dr_spyn said:

My Name is Ed Balls, Look on my works, ye Mighty, and despair!'

https://twitter.com/Holbornlolz/status/774317430957105152

What a plank.

A reassuringly normal kitchen !

Nah, that'll be the kitchenette...

John_M

GIN1138 said:

What do we make of this?

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/09/09/uk-completely-lost-post-brexit-and-will-plead-for-a-deal-top-bru/

It's always useful when the opposition underestimates you.

MTimT

Juncker's Commission to launch a charm offensive. What could possibly go wrong?

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/09/09/juncker-commission-to-launch-charm-offensive-to-stave-off-populi/

FrancisUrquhart

tlg86 said:

Pulpstar said:

williamglenn said:

dr_spyn said:

My Name is Ed Balls, Look on my works, ye Mighty, and despair!'

https://twitter.com/Holbornlolz/status/774317430957105152

What a plank.

A reassuringly normal kitchen !

Nah, that'll be the kitchenette...

And which house...The Telegraph let the Cooper Balls off extremely lightly during the expenses scandal. Remember they couldn't work out their mortgage payments properly.

foxinsoxuk

GIN1138 said:

What do we make of this?

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/09/09/uk-completely-lost-post-brexit-and-will-plead-for-a-deal-top-bru/

I think that the Eurocrats are probably right. Our squabbling 3 Brexiteers can agree on little, and May overrules them anyway. The G20 was a bit of a reality check for the PM.

It is going to be a pigs ear, and we are likely to be over a barrel taking an unsatisfactory deal, unless we plan for a hard Brexit.

PlatoSaid

williamglenn said:

Alistair said:

People who think politicians can't change the people's mind are wrong

It could just be an indicator of how successful RT has been in cornering part of the right-wing English language media market.

I may be mistaken - but I swore I saw a pix on Twitter of Larry King hosting a RT show earlier today. LARRY KING!!!

MTimT

GIN1138 said:

What do we make of this?

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/09/09/uk-completely-lost-post-brexit-and-will-plead-for-a-deal-top-bru/

More evidence of idiocy within the Commission. How is preparing properly for a complex negotiation being lost?

glw

GIN1138 said:

What do we make of this?

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/09/09/uk-completely-lost-post-brexit-and-will-plead-for-a-deal-top-bru/

Berks.

foxinsoxuk

John_M said:

GIN1138 said:

What do we make of this?

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/09/09/uk-completely-lost-post-brexit-and-will-plead-for-a-deal-top-bru/

It's always useful when the opposition underestimates you.

It may well that they are over-estimating the competence of our top table.
Cripes! as some might say.

PlatoSaid

It wasn't my imagination - he's got his own show

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g2ecNcbSCiU

https://www.rt.com/shows/larry-king-now/

tlg86

FrancisUrquhart said:

tlg86 said:

Pulpstar said:

williamglenn said:

dr_spyn said:

My Name is Ed Balls, Look on my works, ye Mighty, and despair!'

https://twitter.com/Holbornlolz/status/774317430957105152

What a plank.

A reassuringly normal kitchen !

Nah, that'll be the kitchenette...

And which house...The Telegraph let the Cooper Balls off extremely lightly during the expenses scandal. Remember they couldn't work out their mortgage payments properly.

And Balls wanted to be CotE.

williamglenn

foxinsoxuk said:

It is going to be a pigs ear, and we are likely to be over a barrel taking an unsatisfactory deal, unless we plan for a hard Brexit.

It would be a dereliction of duty for a Prime Minister to put the country in that position regardless of the result of a plebiscite. If there's no prospect of a good outcome along the lines that the pro-Brexit camp were anticipating, she needs to find a way to kick Article 50 into the long grass indefinitely.

MTimT

kle4 said:

Alistair said:

People who think politicians can't change the people's mind are wrong

https://twitter.com/williamjordann/status/774230137097379840

Amusing stat. Most dare not try of course. Reminds me of a quote I heard once about true democratic leadership being about convincing the public to follow rather than just follow the public.

Most of the political leaders are simply following nationalist and populist rhetoric, and that is for me not a democracy. A democracy, in my opinion, is a political leader developing a vision and then trying to convince the public opinion to follow his vision, and not what is happening now

Has to be said though the person saying it doesn't always seem to follow that 'convince the pubilc opinion' bit, as it was Guy Verhofstadt.

More likely, however, than the great persuasive powers of Trump, is really just how deep tribalism goes.

Or something a little less direct than that. Perhaps more like "I am a conservative on social, economic and foreign policy issues. The Party that is associated with that is the GOP. Trump is the GOP candidate. I don't have the time to research Putin, Russia and relations with the US nor Trump's position on it, so by proxy, I'll accept what his position is."

PS That is not my position, which is that a Trump presidency is potentially extremely dangerous for the US because of his potential to misread and exacerbate serious international crises. But I think that most people do not take policy positions on most issues, but adopt the policy position of the party that is most closely aligned with their overall political outlook.

PlatoSaid

Epic!

Jeremy Corbyn (Poldark) by Peter Brookes - political cartoon gallery https://t.co/wCi9uXOdlq

GeoffM

williamglenn said:

foxinsoxuk said:

It is going to be a pigs ear, and we are likely to be over a barrel taking an unsatisfactory deal, unless we plan for a hard Brexit.

It would be a dereliction of duty for a Prime Minister to put the country in that position regardless of the result of a plebiscite. If there's no prospect of a good outcome along the lines that the pro-Brexit camp were anticipating, she needs to find a way to kick Article 50 into the long grass indefinitely.

Brexit is, by definition, a "good outcome".

Gardenwalker

PlatoSaid said:

It wasn't my imagination - he's got his own show

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g2ecNcbSCiU

https://www.rt.com/shows/larry-king-now/

Neither of those videos show a Larry King RT show. Why are you posting them?

Stark_Dawning

GIN1138 said:

What do we make of this?

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/09/09/uk-completely-lost-post-brexit-and-will-plead-for-a-deal-top-bru/

Spot on sadly. In Boris, Fox and Davis I've never seen a trio of politicians less equipped to deal with so momentous and difficult a project. We all know what's going to happen - it'll collapse amid acrimony and disappointment and at least two of them will end up resigning. The EU and the rest of the world know this; they're just biding their time until we're at our weakest.

GIN1138

Isabel thinks the whole Grammar schools thing could be a ruse for an early election;

http://blogs.spectator.co.uk/2016/09/theresa-may-comes-tory-fire-grammar-schools/

Big_G_NorthWales

williamglenn said:

foxinsoxuk said:

It is going to be a pigs ear, and we are likely to be over a barrel taking an unsatisfactory deal, unless we plan for a hard Brexit.

It would be a dereliction of duty for a Prime Minister to put the country in that position regardless of the result of a plebiscite. If there's no prospect of a good outcome along the lines that the pro-Brexit camp were anticipating, she needs to find a way to kick Article 50 into the long grass indefinitely.

It is not going to happen.

Theresa May will take us out of Europe despite remainer's, who are incapable of accepting democracy, and are led by those fine statesmen, Tim Farron and Owen Smith, the former being irrelevant and the latter about to be consigned to oblivion by none other than Jeremy Corbyn (who backs leaving the single market)

ThreeQuidder

williamglenn said:

foxinsoxuk said:

It is going to be a pigs ear, and we are likely to be over a barrel taking an unsatisfactory deal, unless we plan for a hard Brexit.

It would be a dereliction of duty for a Prime Minister to put the country in that position regardless of the result of a plebiscite. If there's no prospect of a good outcome along the lines that the pro-Brexit camp were anticipating, she needs to find a way to kick Article 50 into the long grass indefinitely.

Is this what the Bargaining phase looks like?

NoEasyDay

Would you then advocate martial law and gas chambers , to avoid democracy.

You must be a Lib dem.

GIN1138

foxinsoxuk said:

GIN1138 said:

What do we make of this?

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/09/09/uk-completely-lost-post-brexit-and-will-plead-for-a-deal-top-bru/

on little, and May overrules them anyway. The G20 was a bit of a reality check for the PM.

It is going to be a pigs ear, and we are likely to be over a barrel taking an unsatisfactory deal, unless we plan for a hard Brexit.

Well to me it looks like that's exactly what the government IS planning for?

NoEasyDay

NoEasyDay said:

Would you then advocate martial law and gas chambers , to avoid democracy.

You must be a Lib dem.

Didnt appear where it was meant......

williamglenn

Big_G_NorthWales said:

williamglenn said:

foxinsoxuk said:

It is going to be a pigs ear, and we are likely to be over a barrel taking an unsatisfactory deal, unless we plan for a hard Brexit.

It would be a dereliction of duty for a Prime Minister to put the country in that position regardless of the result of a plebiscite. If there's no prospect of a good outcome along the lines that the pro-Brexit camp were anticipating, she needs to find a way to kick Article 50 into the long grass indefinitely.

It is not going to happen.

Theresa May will take us out of Europe despite remainer's, who are incapable of accepting democracy, and are led by those fine statesmen, Tim Farron and Owen Smith, the former being irrelevant and the latter about to be consigned to oblivion by none other than Jeremy Corbyn (who backs leaving the single market)

Remainers are led by Theresa May. Brexit means Brexit, i.e. an unplanned mistake that will be left to a trio of incompetents to its pursue to its logical conclusion of failure and acrimony.

john_zims

@GIN1138

'What do we make of this?

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/09/09/uk-completely-lost-post-brexit-and-will-plead-for-a-deal-top-bru/'

What ever these self important idiots think it will be Germany that calls the shots.

Give them a year post Article 50 and then do hard Brexit and not waste anymore time.

Big_G_NorthWales

GIN1138 said:

Isabel thinks the whole Grammar schools thing could be a ruse for an early election;

http://blogs.spectator.co.uk/2016/09/theresa-may-comes-tory-fire-grammar-schools/

The time line is interesting as it will be 2018 at the earliest before it comes to the Lords and if they vote down the legislation it would be the perfect excuse to go to the Country and seek a new mandate, including Grammar Schools which according to a Sky poll are backed by 60% of the public

PlatoSaid

NoEasyDay said:

Would you then advocate martial law and gas chambers , to avoid democracy.

You must be a Lib dem.

Simon Hughes conversion to the use of water cannons during the London riots was most amusing.

Big_G_NorthWales

williamglenn said:

Big_G_NorthWales said:

williamglenn said:

foxinsoxuk said:

It is going to be a pigs ear, and we are likely to be over a barrel taking an unsatisfactory deal, unless we plan for a hard Brexit.

It would be a dereliction of duty for a Prime Minister to put the country in that position regardless of the result of a plebiscite. If there's no prospect of a good outcome along the lines that the pro-Brexit camp were anticipating, she needs to find a way to kick Article 50 into the long grass indefinitely.

It is not going to happen.

Theresa May will take us out of Europe despite remainer's, who are incapable of accepting democracy, and are led by those fine statesmen, Tim Farron and Owen Smith, the former being irrelevant and the latter about to be consigned to oblivion by none other than Jeremy Corbyn (who backs leaving the single market)

Remainers are led by Theresa May. Brexit means Brexit, i.e. an unplanned mistake that will be left to a trio of incompetents to its pursue to its logical conclusion of failure and acrimony.

Theresa May is the Prime Minister and she will take us out of Europe. Get used to it

foxinsoxuk

GIN1138 said:

foxinsoxuk said:

GIN1138 said:

What do we make of this?

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/09/09/uk-completely-lost-post-brexit-and-will-plead-for-a-deal-top-bru/

on little, and May overrules them anyway. The G20 was a bit of a reality check for the PM.

It is going to be a pigs ear, and we are likely to be over a barrel taking an unsatisfactory deal, unless we plan for a hard Brexit.

Well to me it looks like that's exactly what the government IS planning for?

I am not sure that the government has any plans yet.

Didn't they all meet at Chequers the other week for a bit of brainstorming, blue sky thinking and flipcharts?

I hope that they had enough beermats and fag packets to do the sums on.

kle4

foxinsoxuk said:

GIN1138 said:

foxinsoxuk said:

GIN1138 said:

What do we make of this?

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/09/09/uk-completely-lost-post-brexit-and-will-plead-for-a-deal-top-bru/

on little, and May overrules them anyway. The G20 was a bit of a reality check for the PM.

It is going to be a pigs ear, and we are likely to be over a barrel taking an unsatisfactory deal, unless we plan for a hard Brexit.

Well to me it looks like that's exactly what the government IS planning for?

I am not sure that the government has any plans yet.

Didn't they all meet at Chequers the other week for a bit of brainstorming, blue sky thinking and flipcharts?

I hope that they had enough beermats and fag packets to do the sums on.

All done on tablets these days, doc.

Big_G_NorthWales

john_zims said:

@GIN1138

'What do we make of this?

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/09/09/uk-completely-lost-post-brexit-and-will-plead-for-a-deal-top-bru/'

What ever these self important idiots think it will be Germany that calls the shots.

Give them a year post Article 50 and then do hard Brexit and not waste anymore time.

More specifically the leaders of the German car industry will put those idiotic eurocrats in their box. Indeed I expect Juncker's will not survive 2017

welshowl

GIN1138 said:

What do we make of this?

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/09/09/uk-completely-lost-post-brexit-and-will-plead-for-a-deal-top-bru/

To borrow a phrase "what kind of people do they think we are?". I said on here a couple of weeks before the vote I voted in the knowledge I wouldn't be bought or cowed. Still stands. It wasn't about the money. Clearly it would be nice to be civilised on both sides and create the least disruptive outcome we both can. However, we voted out. As far as I'm concerned anything "out" is better than "in" especially with this attitude from the Eurocrats.

foxinsoxuk

kle4 said:

foxinsoxuk said:

GIN1138 said:

foxinsoxuk said:

GIN1138 said:

What do we make of this?

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/09/09/uk-completely-lost-post-brexit-and-will-plead-for-a-deal-top-bru/

on little, and May overrules them anyway. The G20 was a bit of a reality check for the PM.

It is going to be a pigs ear, and we are likely to be over a barrel taking an unsatisfactory deal, unless we plan for a hard Brexit.

Well to me it looks like that's exactly what the government IS planning for?

I am not sure that the government has any plans yet.

Didn't they all meet at Chequers the other week for a bit of brainstorming, blue sky thinking and flipcharts?

I hope that they had enough beermats and fag packets to do the sums on.

All done on tablets these days, doc.

You have a touching faith in our politicians being vaguely competent that I am less certain of!

kle4

foxinsoxuk said:

kle4 said:

foxinsoxuk said:

GIN1138 said:

foxinsoxuk said:

GIN1138 said:

What do we make of this?

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/09/09/uk-completely-lost-post-brexit-and-will-plead-for-a-deal-top-bru/

on little, and May overrules them anyway. The G20 was a bit of a reality check for the PM.

It is going to be a pigs ear, and we are likely to be over a barrel taking an unsatisfactory deal, unless we plan for a hard Brexit.

Well to me it looks like that's exactly what the government IS planning for?

I am not sure that the government has any plans yet.

Didn't they all meet at Chequers the other week for a bit of brainstorming, blue sky thinking and flipcharts?

I hope that they had enough beermats and fag packets to do the sums on.

All done on tablets these days, doc.

You have a touching faith in our politicians being vaguely competent that I am less certain of!

I have faith an official will be in the room operating one. Besides, no one smokes or drinks anymore, beermats and fag packets are in short supply.

Sandpit

Big_G_NorthWales said:

GIN1138 said:

Isabel thinks the whole Grammar schools thing could be a ruse for an early election;

http://blogs.spectator.co.uk/2016/09/theresa-may-comes-tory-fire-grammar-schools/

The time line is interesting as it will be 2018 at the earliest before it comes to the Lords and if they vote down the legislation it would be the perfect excuse to go to the Country and seek a new mandate, including Grammar Schools which according to a Sky poll are backed by 60% of the public

Betfair have a 2018 election or a 2019 election both at 5.5 (9/2 in old money). I think there's value in those prices.

foxinsoxuk

Big_G_NorthWales said:

john_zims said:

@GIN1138

'What do we make of this?

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/09/09/uk-completely-lost-post-brexit-and-will-plead-for-a-deal-top-bru/'

What ever these self important idiots think it will be Germany that calls the shots.

Give them a year post Article 50 and then do hard Brexit and not waste anymore time.

More specifically the leaders of the German car industry will put those idiotic eurocrats in their box. Indeed I expect Juncker's will not survive 2017

The same way our powerful City financiers controlled our own side?

I wouldn't count on it!

PlatoSaid

welshowl said:

GIN1138 said:

What do we make of this?

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/09/09/uk-completely-lost-post-brexit-and-will-plead-for-a-deal-top-bru/

To borrow a phrase "what kind of people do they think we are?". I said on here a couple of weeks before the vote I voted in the knowledge I wouldn't be bought or cowed. Still stands. It wasn't about the money. Clearly it would be nice to be civilised on both sides and create the least disruptive outcome we both can. However, we voted out. As far as I'm concerned anything "out" is better than "in" especially with this attitude from the Eurocrats.

Stubborn bastards :

perdix

williamglenn said:

Alistair said:

People who think politicians can't change the people's mind are wrong

It could just be an indicator of how successful RT has been in cornering part of the right-wing English language media market.

RT gives voice to anti-establishment voices in the West. Easy to do when you are funded by a dictator who ignores his own establishment of kleptocrats.

GIN1138

I do think we've got to get on with A50 in Q1 next year though... I think it we attempt to delay beyond the start of 2017 we really will become a laughing stock.

Big_G_NorthWales

foxinsoxuk said:

Big_G_NorthWales said:

john_zims said:

@GIN1138

'What do we make of this?

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/09/09/uk-completely-lost-post-brexit-and-will-plead-for-a-deal-top-bru/'

What ever these self important idiots think it will be Germany that calls the shots.

Give them a year post Article 50 and then do hard Brexit and not waste anymore time.

More specifically the leaders of the German car industry will put those idiotic eurocrats in their box. Indeed I expect Juncker's will not survive 2017

The same way our powerful City financiers controlled our own side?

I wouldn't count on it!

I would prefer a sensible divorce but if not we just leave and watch as the whole EU project collapses

Sandpit

Big_G_NorthWales said:

john_zims said:

@GIN1138

'What do we make of this?

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/09/09/uk-completely-lost-post-brexit-and-will-plead-for-a-deal-top-bru/'

What ever these self important idiots think it will be Germany that calls the shots.

Give them a year post Article 50 and then do hard Brexit and not waste anymore time.

More specifically the leaders of the German car industry will put those idiotic eurocrats in their box. Indeed I expect Juncker's will not survive 2017

Drunker is the proverbial cooked bread, only surviving because of his own ego (and a lack of process to force him out).

The serious talks will be with the major trading nations, that is where the deal will be worked out - UK is the largest export market for German cars. More than US or Japan.

PlatoSaid

perdix said:

williamglenn said:

Alistair said:

People who think politicians can't change the people's mind are wrong

It could just be an indicator of how successful RT has been in cornering part of the right-wing English language media market.

RT gives voice to anti-establishment voices in the West. Easy to do when you are funded by a dictator who ignores his own establishment of kleptocrats.

Another poster linked to a fascinating report on Russian polling and how important it was to Putin in terms of staying on the right side of public opinion, well worth hunting on Google for it.

kle4

GIN1138 said:

I do think we've got to get on with A50 in Q1 next year though... I think it we attempt to delay beyond the start of 2017 we really will become a laughing stock.

I cannot see it being delayed beyond that, but quite frankly most nations (or at least their governments) will laugh at us for taking the decision regardless (until such times as we make a success of it), so I think we can put up with it if there are good reasons to delay further.

Big_G_NorthWales

GIN1138 said:

I do think we've got to get on with A50 in Q1 next year though... I think it we attempt to delay beyond the start of 2017 we really will become a laughing stock.

Agreed - serve no later than June 2017 after the French elections

Sandpit

GIN1138 said:

I do think we've got to get on with A50 in Q1 next year though... I think it we attempt to delay beyond the start of 2017 we really will become a laughing stock.

Agreed. Aim to formally leave at the same time as the EU elections in May 2019, this helps them out in terms of their own structures and processes.

Alternatively, make it a hard exit and get it all done next year, leave on 1/1/2018 and get the trade deals done afterwards.

GIN1138

Sandpit said:

Big_G_NorthWales said:

john_zims said:

@GIN1138

'What do we make of this?

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/09/09/uk-completely-lost-post-brexit-and-will-plead-for-a-deal-top-bru/'

What ever these self important idiots think it will be Germany that calls the shots.

Give them a year post Article 50 and then do hard Brexit and not waste anymore time.

More specifically the leaders of the German car industry will put those idiotic eurocrats in their box. Indeed I expect Juncker's will not survive 2017

Drunker is the proverbial cooked bread, only surviving because of his own ego (and a lack of process to force him out).

The EU and Juncker remind me quite a lot of FIFA and Sepp Blatter...

Sunil_Prasannan

[Excitedly] Had my first ride on Sheffield's Supertram in 4 years today. I did the Halfway and Herdings Park branches in the south of the city. View from Herdings Park was wonderful, even managed to make out the red brick University of Sheffield, where I had an interview 4 years ago (giving me an excuse to do Sheffield Station/Hallam to the Uni on Supertram back then).

PlatoSaid

GIN1138 said:

Sandpit said:

Big_G_NorthWales said:

john_zims said:

@GIN1138

'What do we make of this?

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/09/09/uk-completely-lost-post-brexit-and-will-plead-for-a-deal-top-bru/'

What ever these self important idiots think it will be Germany that calls the shots.

Give them a year post Article 50 and then do hard Brexit and not waste anymore time.

More specifically the leaders of the German car industry will put those idiotic eurocrats in their box. Indeed I expect Juncker's will not survive 2017

Drunker is the proverbial cooked bread, only surviving because of his own ego (and a lack of process to force him out).

The EU and Juncker remind me quite a lot of FIFA and Sepp Blatter...

My favourite ballot paper of all time

https://static.guim.co.uk/sys-images/SPORT/Pix/pictures/2011/6/1/1306941116767/Fifa-ballot-form-007.jpg

welshowl

GIN1138 said:

Sandpit said:

Big_G_NorthWales said:

john_zims said:

@GIN1138

'What do we make of this?

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/09/09/uk-completely-lost-post-brexit-and-will-plead-for-a-deal-top-bru/'

What ever these self important idiots think it will be Germany that calls the shots.

Give them a year post Article 50 and then do hard Brexit and not waste anymore time.

More specifically the leaders of the German car industry will put those idiotic eurocrats in their box. Indeed I expect Juncker's will not survive 2017

Drunker is the proverbial cooked bread, only surviving because of his own ego (and a lack of process to force him out).

The EU and Juncker remind me quite a lot of FIFA and Sepp Blatter...

Juncker represents so much that's wrong. A bloke from a country about the size of Kent, to whom I have zero loyalty, and virtually sod all ability to fire, with influence of a serious nature over my life. Well hopefully not for much longer.

edmundintokyo

john_zims said:

@GIN1138

'What do we make of this?

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/09/09/uk-completely-lost-post-brexit-and-will-plead-for-a-deal-top-bru/'

What ever these self important idiots think it will be Germany that calls the shots.

Give them a year post Article 50 and then do hard Brexit and not waste anymore time.

We just had a test of the "German industry gets what it wants" theory. Spoiler: German industry didn't get what it wants.

http://www.fiercewireless.com/europe/ec-withdraws-proposals-for-fair-use-limits-roaming-surcharge-abolition

john_zims

@Big_G_NorthWales

'More specifically the leaders of the German car industry will put those idiotic eurocrats in their box. Indeed I expect Juncker's will not survive 2017'

A drive down any of our 'ram packed' motorways gives a great visual of what's at stake for the German car industry.

Sandpit

GIN1138 said:

Sandpit said:

Big_G_NorthWales said:

john_zims said:

@GIN1138

'What do we make of this?

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/09/09/uk-completely-lost-post-brexit-and-will-plead-for-a-deal-top-bru/'

What ever these self important idiots think it will be Germany that calls the shots.

Give them a year post Article 50 and then do hard Brexit and not waste anymore time.

More specifically the leaders of the German car industry will put those idiotic eurocrats in their box. Indeed I expect Juncker's will not survive 2017

Drunker is the proverbial cooked bread, only surviving because of his own ego (and a lack of process to force him out).

The EU and Juncker remind me quite a lot of FIFA and Sepp Blatter...

That was one of Dan Hannan's best lines from one of the Brexit debates.
"Saying 'I am supporting the EU because I like Europe', would be rather like saying 'I am supporting FIFA because I like football'"
1'10" here https://youtu.be/U9SYJLb2naQ

PlatoSaid

john_zims said:

@Big_G_NorthWales

'More specifically the leaders of the German car industry will put those idiotic eurocrats in their box. Indeed I expect Juncker's will not survive 2017'

A drive down any of our 'ram packed' motorways gives a great visual of what's at stake for the German car industry.

Well quite, just speaking for myself - my last few cars have been in reverse order

Mercedes
BMW
Volkswagen
BMW

Paul_Bedfordshire

Sandpit said:

Eurocrats reckon UK will come begging for Brexit deal.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/09/09/uk-completely-lost-post-brexit-and-will-plead-for-a-deal-top-bru/

And they wonder why we wanted to leave.

Just like we were going to plead for a peace treaty after the fall of France.

They have learned nothing.


Tossers.

PlatoSaid

Arthur S
9 September 1994: "Private Eye" No. 854: https://t.co/764u3Os0U9

john_zims

@edmundintokyo

'We just had a test of the "German industry gets what it wants" theory. Spoiler: German industry didn't get what it wants.

http://www.fiercewireless.com/europe/ec-withdraws-proposals-for-fair-use-limits-roaming-surcharge-abolition

Did that amount to €18 billion worth of business ?


German carmakers raise fears over Brexit - FT.com
www.ft.com › GlobalEconomy › EU Economy
2 Jul 2015 - German car exports to the UK last year were worth nearly €18bn, and carmakers such as Volkswagen, which owns Bentley, and BMW, owner of ...

Paul_Bedfordshire

glw said:

Alistair said:

People who think politicians can't change the people's mind are wrong

Hmm, perhaps Trump should consider using those powers for good rather than evil. The right-wing man crush on Putin is perverse, Putin is not America's friend.

He is more our friend than Juncker and co.

HYUFD

Blunkett says Momentum cost Labour the by election in Sheffield, older members were on doorsteps while they were tweeting for Jeremy!

PeterC

Sandpit said:

GIN1138 said:

I do think we've got to get on with A50 in Q1 next year though... I think it we attempt to delay beyond the start of 2017 we really will become a laughing stock.

Agreed. Aim to formally leave at the same time as the EU elections in May 2019, this helps them out in terms of their own structures and processes.

Alternatively, make it a hard exit and get it all done next year, leave on 1/1/2018 and get the trade deals done afterwards.

A hard Brexit is all but inevitable. The A50 negotiations are not concerned with the any FTA for the post-Brexit world. A FTA cannot even be considered unit we have left and would take much longer than two years to conclude in any event. I expect that we will go to WTO terms and look to negotiate a FTA agreement over time.

Paul_Bedfordshire

foxinsoxuk said:

GIN1138 said:

What do we make of this?

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/09/09/uk-completely-lost-post-brexit-and-will-plead-for-a-deal-top-bru/

I think that the Eurocrats are probably right. Our squabbling 3 Brexiteers can agree on little, and May overrules them anyway. The G20 was a bit of a reality check for the PM.

It is going to be a pigs ear, and we are likely to be over a barrel taking an unsatisfactory deal, unless we plan for a hard Brexit.

You hope

Paul_Bedfordshire

williamglenn said:

foxinsoxuk said:

It is going to be a pigs ear, and we are likely to be over a barrel taking an unsatisfactory deal, unless we plan for a hard Brexit.

It would be a dereliction of duty for a Prime Minister to put the country in that position regardless of the result of a plebiscite. If there's no prospect of a good outcome along the lines that the pro-Brexit camp were anticipating, she needs to find a way to kick Article 50 into the long grass indefinitely.

Dream on

FF43

GIN1138 said:

What do we make of this?

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/09/09/uk-completely-lost-post-brexit-and-will-plead-for-a-deal-top-bru/

Schadenfreude doesn't become hired hands. In any case we haven't Brexited yet, so they have jumped the gun. A supercilious "they'll get what they voted for" works better.

Moses_

williamglenn said:

dr_spyn said:

My Name is Ed Balls, Look on my works, ye Mighty, and despair!'

https://twitter.com/Holbornlolz/status/774317430957105152

What a plank.

I can't help wondering why is there a drawn under the cupboard and what would you keep in it?

The one next to it is also missing or maybe that's the access point to get behind the fridge?

Big_G_NorthWales

john_zims said:

@Big_G_NorthWales

'More specifically the leaders of the German car industry will put those idiotic eurocrats in their box. Indeed I expect Juncker's will not survive 2017'

A drive down any of our 'ram packed' motorways gives a great visual of what's at stake for the German car industry.

There are 5 BMW's and 3 Mercedes in our cul de sac of 8 homes (I admit to one of the BMW's)

MP_SE

https://twitter.com/SkyNews/status/774353618275295232

GeoffM

PlatoSaid said:

GIN1138 said:

Sandpit said:

Big_G_NorthWales said:

john_zims said:

@GIN1138

'What do we make of this?

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/09/09/uk-completely-lost-post-brexit-and-will-plead-for-a-deal-top-bru/'

What ever these self important idiots think it will be Germany that calls the shots.

Give them a year post Article 50 and then do hard Brexit and not waste anymore time.

More specifically the leaders of the German car industry will put those idiotic eurocrats in their box. Indeed I expect Juncker's will not survive 2017

Drunker is the proverbial cooked bread, only surviving because of his own ego (and a lack of process to force him out).

The EU and Juncker remind me quite a lot of FIFA and Sepp Blatter...

My favourite ballot paper of all time

https://static.guim.co.uk/sys-images/SPORT/Pix/pictures/2011/6/1/1306941116767/Fifa-ballot-form-007.jpg

I agree with you although the 1938 Anschluss ballot paper is quite superb too in its own way.

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/5/57/Stimmzettel-Anschluss.jpg

PlatoSaid

Mirror
Owen Smith: 'I fought off hundreds of lads to get my wife so I know how to win' https://t.co/bXg0WHHs48 https://t.co/RfEUIXp8WV

Please make it stop