On topic, one does not expect the leopard to change its spots. Especially not if it is an old and stubborn leopard, with a totally unwarranted belief in its own righteousness.
When I was a child we had a Telegram from San Francisco from my Great Uncle. It was telling my Nana's family he was alive and had reached the US after being liberated from a Japanese POW camp. They hadn't heard from him in over two years and feared the worst.
When ever any mention of Japan or Japanese goods came on TV my Nana would explode with a tirade of Japanese cities that should have been A Bombed. She denounced the Allies for being so soft on the Japanese by only using two A Bombs.
Friend of mine was, in the 70’s, developing a chain of bakers shops (no, not that one). His father, founder of the business, wouldn’t countenance the buying of Honda etc vans because of the way the POW’s were treated.
My grandmother would not drink German wine because of two brothers killed in the First World War.
I have never owned a German car - but that is partly due to being an engineer from the Midlands.
That's interesting but I'm not sure I understand it. The Empire point is clear, but in other respects we suffered severely but vastly less than the Continent, so wouldn't a German or Frenchman feel reasonably baffled if a Brit said it was a major factor for him?
I do think it's still powering disputes in Eastern Europe. My mother (who I'm perhaps making out to be a hysterical character, but really wasn't) actively disliked the Ukraine and the Baltic States for perceived collaboraiton with the Nazis, and would certainly have felt strongly that Crimean separation was a splendid thing, even though she'd been British since 1937. Equally I know Ukrainians who find it hard to move on from historical injustices.
A domestic parallel is maybe Ireland. People on the mainland with a personal recollection of IRA or other attacks still feel strongly. Everyone else is vaguely aware of McGuinness and Adams hobnobbing with the Queen and in the local government and has pretty much moved on. As for the Falklands, hardly anyone feels the slightest resentment towards Argentina these days, except the relatives of lost Servicemen. It's personal loss that leaves lasting bitterness, everything else fades.
Everything does fade. But most people in the UK - especially of voting age - are just one generation removed from WW2. The specific experience of WW2 - the death, the bombs, the destruction - was similar across Europe (and got worse the further east you went), but the way each country experienced it collectively was different. Whether rightly or wrongly, the British felt they stood alone against Hitler and took everything that was thrown at us. We won and we won because we were bloody-minded and just would not give in. I'd say that is now a big part of what you could call the national character in a way that it is not elsewhere, and I am not sure people in other parts of Europe really get that. Of course, we don't get them either!
As for Ireland - one of the reasons that Labour will do so badly in the West Midlands at the next election under Jeremy is that collective memory of the Birmingham pub bombings is very much alive. Everyone remembers them, not just those directly affected.
The economic news seems poor today, but I swear only a few days ago it was 'very positive' ?
Do things change that quickly, I suspect not.
Perhaps we're doing a 6.5/10 'OK' and neither spectacularly badly or well
July data vs August data.
This is all rubbish. The real impact on UK economy will come when we actually exit the single market. At that point the problems of trying to trade with the EU bloc without being in the SM will become apparent.
I don't think that TM is even close to Cameron as a Parliamentary performer. She is not as light on her feet and doesn't have the natural wit or cruelty required. But she will be prepared and no doubt will have another set piece like the "remind you of anyone" in her first outing. She is also far too good for Corbyn.
The biggest problem with crowdsourcing questions is the lack of follow up. Effective cross examination requires persistence on a particular point until the subject has no choice but to give the answer they do not want to give because the evasions have been stripped away. That requires sharp, pointed questions and above all the ability to listen carefully to the answer and then shape the next question accordingly.
Most of the time Corbyn flits from subject to subject and therefore gets no meaningful answer but even when he does focus he shows no sign of being able to respond to the answer he gets. Instead he proceeds with his prepared question even if it has already been answered looking and ineffective as a result. This comes from a lack of skill, intelligence and training. I see no evidence that he is even interested in changing it.
And to think we thought EdM was pretty poor at PMQs re responding to the answer. Several times he asked the next question on the list as if it hadn't been properly answered with a single sentence.
Listening really is the key. Its harder than it sounds and requires intense concentration. It is hard enough in a court. In a very noisy Commons it must require a rare skill. Corbyn and Ed don't have it.
It also requires a lot of preparation beforehand. And you need to decide what you are trying to achieve with your line of questioning. What is suitable for forensic cross-examination is not necessarily suitable for political grandstanding. But whatever form of questioning you go for, it is much much harder than it looks. Those who are good at it make it seem easy. But it isn't.
That's interesting but I'm not sure I understand it. The Empire point is clear, but in other respects we suffered severely but vastly less than the Continent, so wouldn't a German or Frenchman feel reasonably baffled if a Brit said it was a major factor for him?
I do think it's still powering disputes in Eastern Europe. My mother (who I'm perhaps making out to be a hysterical character, but really wasn't) actively disliked the Ukraine and the Baltic States for perceived collaboraiton with the Nazis, and would certainly have felt strongly that Crimean separation was a splendid thing, even though she'd been British since 1937. Equally I know Ukrainians who find it hard to move on from historical injustices.
A domestic parallel is maybe Ireland. People on the mainland with a personal recollection of IRA or other attacks still feel strongly. Everyone else is vaguely aware of McGuinness and Adams hobnobbing with the Queen and in the local government and has pretty much moved on. As for the Falklands, hardly anyone feels the slightest resentment towards Argentina these days, except the relatives of lost Servicemen. It's personal loss that leaves lasting bitterness, everything else fades.
Everything does fade. But most people in the UK - especially of voting age - are just one generation removed from WW2. The specific experience of WW2 - the death, the bombs, the destruction - was similar across Europe (and got worse the further east you went), but the way each country experienced it collectively was different. Whether rightly or wrongly, the British felt they stood alone against Hitler and took everything that was thrown at us. We won and we won because we were bloody-minded and just would not give in. I'd say that is now a big part of what you could call the national character in a way that it is not elsewhere, and I am not sure people in other parts of Europe really get that. Of course, we don't get them either!
As for Ireland - one of the reasons that Labour will do so badly in the West Midlands at the next election under Jeremy is that collective memory of the Birmingham pub bombings is very much alive. Everyone remembers them, not just those directly affected.
I believe that air transport companies “prefer” accidents where everyone is killed, to those in which the majority survive. The memory of the deaths fades; those who werte “near deaths” talk about it for the rest of their lives.
The economic news seems poor today, but I swear only a few days ago it was 'very positive' ?
Do things change that quickly, I suspect not.
Perhaps we're doing a 6.5/10 'OK' and neither spectacularly badly or well
July data vs August data.
This is all rubbish. The real impact on UK economy will come when we actually exit the single market. At that point the problems of trying to trade with the EU bloc without being in the SM will become apparent.
Agreed. The problem, however, is that some Remainers have got themselves into such a state about the result of the vote that they've allowed their prejudices to cloud their judgment. Unfortunately, this includes the Governor of the Bank of England.
I wonder what the female equivalent of the bumble bee quote would be?
Thank goodness Mrs May is much better a parliamentarian and no doubt also at PMQ so we don't have to find out.
This is a respectable website. Otherwise I'd tell you. But I expect your wife or daughter could enlighten you. Sometimes, though, ignorance is bliss. This is one of those times.
That's interesting but I'm not sure I understand it. The Empire point is clear, but in other respects we suffered severely but vastly less than the Continent, so wouldn't a German or Frenchman feel reasonably baffled if a Brit said it was a major factor for him?
I do think it's still powering disputes in Eastern Europe. My mother (who I'm perhaps making out to be a hysterical character, but really wasn't) actively disliked the Ukraine and the Baltic States for perceived collaboraiton with the Nazis, and would certainly have felt strongly that Crimean separation was a splendid thing, even though she'd been British since 1937. Equally I know Ukrainians who find it hard to move on from historical injustices.
A domestic parallel is maybe Ireland. People on the mainland with a personal recollection of IRA or other attacks still feel strongly. Everyone else is vaguely aware of McGuinness and Adams hobnobbing with the Queen and in the local government and has pretty much moved on. As for the Falklands, hardly anyone feels the slightest resentment towards Argentina these days, except the relatives of lost Servicemen. It's personal loss that leaves lasting bitterness, everything else fades.
Everything does fade. But most people in the UK - especially of voting age - are just one generation removed from WW2. The specific experience of WW2 - the death, the bombs, the destruction - was similar across Europe (and got worse the further east you went), but the way each country experienced it collectively was different. Whether rightly or wrongly, the British felt they stood alone against Hitler and took everything that was thrown at us. We won and we won because we were bloody-minded and just would not give in. I'd say that is now a big part of what you could call the national character in a way that it is not elsewhere, and I am not sure people in other parts of Europe really get that. Of course, we don't get them either!
As for Ireland - one of the reasons that Labour will do so badly in the West Midlands at the next election under Jeremy is that collective memory of the Birmingham pub bombings is very much alive. Everyone remembers them, not just those directly affected.
I am sure some families have an ancestor killed by the Americans in the War of Independence or by a Spanish sailor in the Spanish Armada or by a South African in the Boer War or a Chinaman in the Opium Wars or a Russian in the Crimean War or a Frenchman in the Napoleonic wars and families in those countries have had similar experiences of the British given we have fought wars with or occupied most nations on the planet at some time or another. It is personal memory that matters most
The economic news seems poor today, but I swear only a few days ago it was 'very positive' ?
Do things change that quickly, I suspect not.
Perhaps we're doing a 6.5/10 'OK' and neither spectacularly badly or well
July data vs August data.
This is all rubbish. The real impact on UK economy will come when we actually exit the single market. At that point the problems of trying to trade with the EU bloc without being in the SM will become apparent.
Many short term predictions were made about an immediate deleterious impact following the vote. There's an element of relief that the effects have been far milder than forecast.
Politics even more of a shambles now than it was in June, I note.
No Brexit before 2020 (effectively impossible because of budgetary constraints). The SoS for Brexit not actually knowing what the government's goals for Brexit are. Useless Corbyn still there and going nowhere.
"History is about to repeat itself on a magnitude that could be revolutionary in British politics, and in its potentially fatal consequences for the Labour party."
The tories will soon realise they have a big problem with May. It could come as soon as today when MPs try to find out whatever the f8ck she believes about Brexit.
The truth, of course is that May believes anything that is seen as popular and successful, and is against anything that doesn;t work initially and is seen as unpopular.
She wants a soft brexit with a hard edge, or should I say a hard Brexit with distinctly soft characteristics. She wants free movement that isn;t THAT free. Or something. Advocators of hard Brexit are wrong, but that doesn;t mean soft brexiters should start celebrating.
Result? total confusion and lack of leadership. In Britain. Abroad. Everywhere.
UKIP jubilant.
When she was elected I posted Theresa May is UKIP's candidate of choice and I'm sticking with that.
Election in 2017? do me a favour. I'd like to see odds on May lasting until 2017.
May will do neither soft nor hard BREXIT, what she will agree is migration controls but leaving enough limited free movement to allow limited single market access. That will be enough for the majority of the country however it will annoy hardcore Remainers, particularly the LDs, as well as hard BREXIT backers, particularly UKIP but she win without the support of either, especially with Labour still in the grips of Corbyn and McDonnell
It will be enough for the majority of the country but how about for the majority of Conservative voters?
I'm sure it will be enough for them.
May could abandon Brexit altogether and still win the election easily, so utterly shambolic and hopeless are her opponents.
Politics even more of a shambles now than it was in June, I note.
No Brexit before 2020 (effectively impossible because of budgetary constraints). The SoS for Brexit not actually knowing what the government's goals for Brexit are. Useless Corbyn still there and going nowhere.
"History is about to repeat itself on a magnitude that could be revolutionary in British politics, and in its potentially fatal consequences for the Labour party."
Wake up Labour!
Was previously a Tory seat, but a big Labour majoirty last time.
As an aside, I recently wrote a short story about the law and illegal cock action. Once the mistakes are ironed out I'll put it up on my website. [Apologies if I posted this yesterday, I can't recall whether I did or not].
George Eaton Exclusive: Chuka Umunna will stand for election as home affairs select committee chair after "strong" support from Labour and Tory MPs.
Today the home affairs select committee. Tomorrow, the world!
Chuka for PM 2025! Get your badges now
I can just seem the industrial north and Midlands rushing out in droves to vote for Mr Metrosexual Chuck!
Given the UK will be out of the EU by then with immigration brought more under control and even Chuka himself said on Monday free movement needed to be reformed I can actually, especially if you add in the metropolitan cities and some of the suburbs too and the Tories will have been in power for 15 years by then
The London Blitz began 75 years ago on 7 September 1940, and marked the start of 57 consecutive nights of bombing. https://t.co/EqpTNL95nj
Great Pathe footage
My Dad was three when it began. I remember my grandmother telling me about him shaking and crying in the bomb shelter as everything exploded above ground. It's extraordinary to think that it happened to people so close. The idea that both my Dad and grandmother (and the rest of the family) were literally sitting in a hole while bombs rained down on London is just so hard to get my head round. Likewise, the Dad of one of my closest friends lost his entire family at Auschwitz. He managed to get to Britain as part of the kinder transport project and was adopted into a middle class Christian family, but he grew up knowing everyone else he loved had been murdered by the Nazis. These are people I know and they were right in the middle of total horror - as appalling as anything that is happening now. No wonder WW2 is still so vivid in our collective memory and so hard to leave behind.
My mother had a similar experience - but in Naples - hiding in the cellars of their home as the Allies bombed it. One of my uncles told me of how terrified he was hearing the bombs fall. Eventually, part of the family moved to Rome (the girls living in one place, the boys in another) and none of the family seeing my grandfather who stayed in Naples until the war was over. She remembers the convent where they stayed as being full of Jews who sheltered there. Her maternal line was Jewish, even though they had been Catholics for several generations.
When I contrast her experiences with that of my daughter at the same age, so fortunate to have lived entirely through a time of peace, and, indeed, my own, the phrase "count your blessings" really does have meaning.
Whatever the worries about Brexit, the economy etc, we are really very fortunate.
"History is about to repeat itself on a magnitude that could be revolutionary in British politics, and in its potentially fatal consequences for the Labour party."
Wake up Labour!
Oh, they're awake alright. But the parasite has immobilized them, making their death particularly gruesome.
The economic news seems poor today, but I swear only a few days ago it was 'very positive' ?
Do things change that quickly, I suspect not.
Perhaps we're doing a 6.5/10 'OK' and neither spectacularly badly or well
July data vs August data.
This is all rubbish. The real impact on UK economy will come when we actually exit the single market. At that point the problems of trying to trade with the EU bloc without being in the SM will become apparent.
Many short term predictions were made about an immediate deleterious impact following the vote. There's an element of relief that the effects have been far milder than forecast.
Other than that, I take your point.
The pre-referendum predictions that forecast a recession or stagnant growth all depended on a fall in consumer spending. That doesn't appear to have happened - are people borrowing more or just optimistic?
The economic news seems poor today, but I swear only a few days ago it was 'very positive' ?
Do things change that quickly, I suspect not.
Perhaps we're doing a 6.5/10 'OK' and neither spectacularly badly or well
July data vs August data.
This is all rubbish. The real impact on UK economy will come when we actually exit the single market. At that point the problems of trying to trade with the EU bloc without being in the SM will become apparent.
Many short term predictions were made about an immediate deleterious impact following the vote. There's an element of relief that the effects have been far milder than forecast.
Other than that, I take your point.
The pre-referendum predictions that forecast a recession or stagnant growth all depended on a fall in consumer spending. That doesn't appear to have happened - are people borrowing more or just optimistic?
Massive spending boost from tourists as well and loads of people who stayed home instead of going overseas.
Hmm. Which Roman emperors would people say are remembered?
"Words once in common use now sound archaic. And the names of the famous dead as well:....Augustus...Hadrian...Antoninus. Everything fades so quickly, turns into legend, and soon oblivion covers it. And those are the ones who shone. The rest - unknown, unasked for a minute after death. What is eternal fame? Emptiness. Then what should we work for? Only this: proper understanding; unselfish action; truthful speech. A resolve to accept whatever happens as necessary and familiar, flowing like water from that same source and spring". Marcus Aurelius
The economic news seems poor today, but I swear only a few days ago it was 'very positive' ?
Do things change that quickly, I suspect not.
Perhaps we're doing a 6.5/10 'OK' and neither spectacularly badly or well
July data vs August data.
This is all rubbish. The real impact on UK economy will come when we actually exit the single market. At that point the problems of trying to trade with the EU bloc without being in the SM will become apparent.
Many short term predictions were made about an immediate deleterious impact following the vote. There's an element of relief that the effects have been far milder than forecast.
Other than that, I take your point.
The pre-referendum predictions that forecast a recession or stagnant growth all depended on a fall in consumer spending. That doesn't appear to have happened - are people borrowing more or just optimistic?
Just living as they did before. That's probably a bad thing given the state of private debt, but then that was an issue Brexit or no Brexit.
The economic news seems poor today, but I swear only a few days ago it was 'very positive' ?
Do things change that quickly, I suspect not.
Perhaps we're doing a 6.5/10 'OK' and neither spectacularly badly or well
July data vs August data.
This is all rubbish. The real impact on UK economy will come when we actually exit the single market. At that point the problems of trying to trade with the EU bloc without being in the SM will become apparent.
Many short term predictions were made about an immediate deleterious impact following the vote. There's an element of relief that the effects have been far milder than forecast.
Other than that, I take your point.
The pre-referendum predictions that forecast a recession or stagnant growth all depended on a fall in consumer spending. That doesn't appear to have happened - are people borrowing more or just optimistic?
Massive spending boost from tourists as well and loads of people who stayed home instead of going overseas.
So more of a timing issue between the referendum and summer. Winter is coming and then we will get a better picture.
The economic news seems poor today, but I swear only a few days ago it was 'very positive' ?
Do things change that quickly, I suspect not.
Perhaps we're doing a 6.5/10 'OK' and neither spectacularly badly or well
July data vs August data.
This is all rubbish. The real impact on UK economy will come when we actually exit the single market. At that point the problems of trying to trade with the EU bloc without being in the SM will become apparent.
Many short term predictions were made about an immediate deleterious impact following the vote. There's an element of relief that the effects have been far milder than forecast.
Other than that, I take your point.
The pre-referendum predictions that forecast a recession or stagnant growth all depended on a fall in consumer spending. That doesn't appear to have happened - are people borrowing more or just optimistic?
I don't know. At this point, I don't think it's clear. I've always liked estimates; about 75% of UK companies do no international trade at all. They live in wholly domestic bubble. They're obviously affected by input prices, but whether they're able to pass that on to consumers is still opaque. Depends on whose numbers you use, but EU trade is ~13% of employment/GDP. I've seen lower estimates (@MaxPB? Thoughts?). Most people are only affected indirectly at this point - e.g. alarming headlines.
Obviously exports are part of the way in which we fund our import habit, so I'm much more interested in our current account and OTS now the immediate shock has worn off. We can pretty much ignore July's figures as we know that was the nadir. Think we get the first proper indications in October iirc.
The economic news seems poor today, but I swear only a few days ago it was 'very positive' ?
Do things change that quickly, I suspect not.
Perhaps we're doing a 6.5/10 'OK' and neither spectacularly badly or well
July data vs August data.
This is all rubbish. The real impact on UK economy will come when we actually exit the single market. At that point the problems of trying to trade with the EU bloc without being in the SM will become apparent.
I've said that from the start. The idea that the vote would cause a recession always seemed fanciful, especially after such a sudden devaluation in Sterling.
Any possible change in the economy will happen after we've left or, IMO, once the government sets out its position on single market, trade, immigration and equivalency.
I'm still in the make the single market work camp and would favour staying in the EEA via EFTA. I don't think our external trade position is anywhere near strong enough to go it alone, at least not for the next 10 years. Then again, I'm fairly relaxed about immigration and think any curbs can be achieved over here by reforming the benefits system.
Manufacturing down -0.9%, industrial production up +0.1%, mixed picture really.
I wouldn't pay too much attention to holidays months generally: July and August (and December) are extremely volatile. Furthermore, this data is very 'backward looking' - it's effectively six weeks older than the latest PMIs.
The economic news seems poor today, but I swear only a few days ago it was 'very positive' ?
Do things change that quickly, I suspect not.
Perhaps we're doing a 6.5/10 'OK' and neither spectacularly badly or well
July data vs August data.
This is all rubbish. The real impact on UK economy will come when we actually exit the single market. At that point the problems of trying to trade with the EU bloc without being in the SM will become apparent.
Many short term predictions were made about an immediate deleterious impact following the vote. There's an element of relief that the effects have been far milder than forecast.
Other than that, I take your point.
The pre-referendum predictions that forecast a recession or stagnant growth all depended on a fall in consumer spending. That doesn't appear to have happened - are people borrowing more or just optimistic?
Massive spending boost from tourists as well and loads of people who stayed home instead of going overseas.
So more of a timing issue between the referendum and summer. Winter is coming and then we will get a better picture.
To some degree, but if the devaluation of Sterling proves to be a longer term situation then I expect our net trade will continue to improve, negating any falls in domestic demand, should they arise.
George Eaton Exclusive: Chuka Umunna will stand for election as home affairs select committee chair after "strong" support from Labour and Tory MPs.
Today the home affairs select committee. Tomorrow, the world!
Chuka for PM 2025! Get your badges now
I can just seem the industrial north and Midlands rushing out in droves to vote for Mr Metrosexual Chuck!
Given the UK will be out of the EU by then with immigration brought more under control and even Chuka himself said on Monday free movement needed to be reformed I can actually, especially if you add in the metropolitan cities and some of the suburbs too and the Tories will have been in power for 15 years by then
The economic news seems poor today, but I swear only a few days ago it was 'very positive' ?
Do things change that quickly, I suspect not.
Perhaps we're doing a 6.5/10 'OK' and neither spectacularly badly or well
July data vs August data.
This is all rubbish. The real impact on UK economy will come when we actually exit the single market. At that point the problems of trying to trade with the EU bloc without being in the SM will become apparent.
I'm still in the make the single market work camp and would favour staying in the EEA via EFTA. I don't think our external trade position is anywhere near strong enough to go it alone, at least not for the next 10 years.
European Single market membership plus participation in its rule making alongside better trade deals with USA, Canada, India, Japan, and China and increased skilled migration would be the ideal but I don't think there is enough support in the Tory party for it and certainly its not what the people of Sunderland thought they were voting for.
Hmm. Which Roman emperors would people say are remembered?
"Words once in common use now sound archaic. And the names of the famous dead as well:....Augustus...Hadrian...Antoninus. Everything fades so quickly, turns into legend, and soon oblivion covers it. And those are the ones who shone. The rest - unknown, unasked for a minute after death. What is eternal fame? Emptiness. Then what should we work for? Only this: proper understanding; unselfish action; truthful speech. A resolve to accept whatever happens as necessary and familiar, flowing like water from that same source and spring". Marcus Aurelius
The London Blitz began 75 years ago on 7 September 1940, and marked the start of 57 consecutive nights of bombing. https://t.co/EqpTNL95nj
Great Pathe footage
And it won us the war - had the Germans concentrated on the airfields and our industrial capability while they had the capability they would have won.
That is the commonly held view, not one that actually stands up scrutiny. If you want an easy to read book that is very well researched and gives a very solid analysis of all the factors in play then might I suggest "The Battle of Britain" by James Holland (ISBN 978-0-552-15610-3). At 900 and odd pages, including a very comprehensive index, it is an excellent all round text book on the five months from May to October 1940.
Also being a modern book (2010) it avoids the mistakes, jingoisms, and omissions that were common in earlier histories. Some of the first works on the subject, from which many of the myths came from, did not even mention Radar and its force multiplier effect.
That's interesting but I'm not sure I understand it. The Empire point is clear, but in other respects we suffered severely but vastly less than the Continent, so wouldn't a German or Frenchman feel reasonably baffled if a Brit said it was a major factor for him?
I do think it's still powering disputes in Eastern Europe. My mother (who I'm perhaps making out to be a hysterical character, but really wasn't) actively disliked the Ukraine and the Baltic States for perceived collaboraiton with the Nazis, and would certainly have felt strongly that Crimean separation was a splendid thing, even though she'd been British since 1937. Equally I know Ukrainians who find it hard to move on from historical injustices.
A domestic parallel is maybe Ireland. People on the mainland with a personal recollection of IRA or other attacks still feel strongly. Everyone else is vaguely aware of McGuinness and Adams hobnobbing with the Queen and in the local government and has pretty much moved on. As for the Falklands, hardly anyone feels the slightest resentment towards Argentina these days, except the relatives of lost Servicemen. It's personal loss that leaves lasting bitterness, everything else fades.
Nick: the reason I think our experience of WW2 influences the British attitude to Europe is two-fold and not related to the level of suffering:-
1. We were not invaded. The experience of invasion/liberation leaves lasting impressions which those who do not share it find hard to understand. Those who are liberated feel gratitude, true, but can and do also feel resentment and shame at having been put in that position. There is a sense of failure there which those countries which have not endured can often find hard to understand.
2. Our democracy kept going through the war and in the period leading up to it. Our nation state survived and coped. It was a success. It did not collapse into civil war and totalitarianism. That was not the case in Continental Europe. Britain did not see the nation state failing and, therefore, did not feel the same visceral need to replace it with something else. Most of Continental Europe did see their nation states fail. While we perhaps fail to understand why the drive to a new European order is so strong in Europe, many EU states fail to understand why Britain feels that its democracy/nation state does not need to be turned into something else as a result of the events which are the drivers behind the European project.
Hmm. Which Roman emperors would people say are remembered?
"Words once in common use now sound archaic. And the names of the famous dead as well:....Augustus...Hadrian...Antoninus. Everything fades so quickly, turns into legend, and soon oblivion covers it. And those are the ones who shone. The rest - unknown, unasked for a minute after death. What is eternal fame? Emptiness. Then what should we work for? Only this: proper understanding; unselfish action; truthful speech. A resolve to accept whatever happens as necessary and familiar, flowing like water from that same source and spring". Marcus Aurelius
Brilliant quote
Marcus Aurelius was an intelligent chap, but he also heads my list of 'Roman Emperors I would least like to have a pint with'. Far too gloomy.
@PSMcClean: The news we all secretly feared - price of red red wine to jump as weak pound pushes up import costs. https://t.co/832uAUTXIS
UK beer, cider and whisky makers won't be complaining...
Anyway, with Climate Change turning us into the south of France it won't be long before we become a major global wine producing nation. As the Italian and French vines wither in the heat and droughts to come, we might well be in the "sweet spot" within the next 20 years!
Roger will be able to relocate from the Cote D'azur to Clacton...
George Eaton Exclusive: Chuka Umunna will stand for election as home affairs select committee chair after "strong" support from Labour and Tory MPs.
Today the home affairs select committee. Tomorrow, the world!
Chuka for PM 2025! Get your badges now
As long as he is next Labour leader my very long bet will come in nicely!
Burgon is clearly the correct choice.
Too leftwing, especially after Corbyn and McDonnell are trounced in 2020
On a serious note I think Lewis has a decent chance..
Clive Lewis? Again, far too leftwing for the country, Chuka is more centrist, slicker and more articulate
Why does it matter what "the country" thinks as to who should be next Labour leader ?
'The country' is almost completely irrelevant.
Unless there are mass deselections (highly unlikely) and a Corbynista purge of the moderate rump of the party, Lewis won't get the nominations. The PLP won't make the mistake of nominating a far leftie again.
Hmm. Which Roman emperors would people say are remembered?
"Words once in common use now sound archaic. And the names of the famous dead as well:....Augustus...Hadrian...Antoninus. Everything fades so quickly, turns into legend, and soon oblivion covers it. And those are the ones who shone. The rest - unknown, unasked for a minute after death. What is eternal fame? Emptiness. Then what should we work for? Only this: proper understanding; unselfish action; truthful speech. A resolve to accept whatever happens as necessary and familiar, flowing like water from that same source and spring". Marcus Aurelius
Brilliant quote
Marcus Aurelius was an intelligent chap, but he also heads my list of 'Roman Emperors I would least like to have a pint with'. Far too gloomy.
Andrew Neil Data released today showed Germany industrial production posted its steepest fall in 23 months in July. UK industrial production rose a bit.
Mr. Penkridge, I put a quote from Marcus Aurelius ahead of Journey to Altmortis:
How much more grievous are the consequences of anger than the causes of it?
Mr. HYUFD, slicker, indeed. Umunna's Ed Miliband with added moisturiser and less likeability. He fares poorly with the bullshit test. Miliband was, at least, authentically singular. Umunna's a third rate Blair impersonator.
Mr. M, he also had bad judgement when it came to his personal life.
The London Blitz began 75 years ago on 7 September 1940, and marked the start of 57 consecutive nights of bombing. https://t.co/EqpTNL95nj
Great Pathe footage
My Dad was three when it began. I remember my grandmother telling me about him shaking and crying in the bomb shelter as everything exploded above ground. It's extraordinary to think that it happened to people so close. The idea that both my Dad and grandmother (and the rest of the family) were literally sitting in a hole while bombs rained down on London is just so hard to get my head round. Likewise, the Dad of one of my closest friends lost his entire family at Auschwitz. He managed to get to Britain as part of the kinder transport project and was adopted into a middle class Christian family, but he grew up knowing everyone else he loved had been murdered by the Nazis. These are people I know and they were right in the middle of total horror - as appalling as anything that is happening now. No wonder WW2 is still so vivid in our collective memory and so hard to leave behind.
My mother had a similar experience - but in Naples - hiding in the cellars of their home as the Allies bombed it. One of my uncles told me of how terrified he was hearing the bombs fall. Eventually, part of the family moved to Rome (the girls living in one place, the boys in another) and none of the family seeing my grandfather who stayed in Naples until the war was over. She remembers the convent where they stayed as being full of Jews who sheltered there. Her maternal line was Jewish, even though they had been Catholics for several generations.
When I contrast her experiences with that of my daughter at the same age, so fortunate to have lived entirely through a time of peace, and, indeed, my own, the phrase "count your blessings" really does have meaning.
Whatever the worries about Brexit, the economy etc, we are really very fortunate.
Unless you are in Syria.
It really is intolerable that such a situation should be allowed to persist; perhaps another legacy of Iraq. Which power is going to commit hundreds of thousands of troops to make and then maintain peace anywhere these days?
That's interesting but I'm not sure I understand it. The Empire point is clear, but in other respects we suffered severely but vastly less than the Continent, so wouldn't a German or Frenchman feel reasonably baffled if a Brit said it was a major factor for him?
I do think it's still powering disputes in Eastern Europe. My mother (who I'm perhaps making out to be a hysterical character, but really wasn't) actively disliked the Ukraine and the Baltic States for perceived collaboraiton with the Nazis, and would certainly have felt strongly that Crimean separation was a splendid thing, even though she'd been British since 1937. Equally I know Ukrainians who find it hard to move on from historical injustices.
A domestic parallel is maybe Ireland. People on the mainland with a personal recollection of IRA or other attacks still feel strongly. Everyone else is vaguely aware of McGuinness and Adams hobnobbing with the Queen and in the local government and has pretty much moved on. As for the Falklands, hardly anyone feels the slightest resentment towards Argentina these days, except the relatives of lost Servicemen. It's personal loss that leaves lasting bitterness, everything else fades.
Nick: the reason I think our experience of WW2 influences the British attitude to Europe is two-fold and not related to the level of suffering:-
1. We were not invaded. The experience of invasion/liberation leaves lasting impressions which those who do not share it find hard to understand. Those who are liberated feel gratitude, true, but can and do also feel resentment and shame at having been put in that position. There is a sense of failure there which those countries which have not endured can often find hard to understand.
2. Our democracy kept going through the war and in the period leading up to it. Our nation state survived and coped. It was a success. It did not collapse into civil war and totalitarianism. That was not the case in Continental Europe. Britain did not see the nation state failing and, therefore, did not feel the same visceral need to replace it with something else. Most of Continental Europe did see their nation states fail. While we perhaps fail to understand why the drive to a new European order is so strong in Europe, many EU states fail to understand why Britain feels that its democracy/nation state does not need to be turned into something else as a result of the events which are the drivers behind the European project.
That's not quite right Cyclefree. Those that fought and returned home from WW2 voted for change in Britain. People were unhappy with the status quo.
They were also internationalist in outlook and promoted new institutions like the UN,Nato and the EU.
As an aside, it's worth reminding the site that invading France was in the 2015 Morris Dancer Party manifesto.
Edited extra bit: Calais would already be under our control had that happened.
If you are going to all that trouble of acquiring French territory, can you go for something a little nicer than Calais?
Burgundy, for instance.
Some years ago I was at the Hotel de Beaune and at the next door table was a lovely American couple who, after perusing the telephone directory-sized wine list, looked up at the waiter and asked: "do you have a Chardonnay?"
The London Blitz began 75 years ago on 7 September 1940, and marked the start of 57 consecutive nights of bombing. https://t.co/EqpTNL95nj
Great Pathe footage
And it won us the war - had the Germans concentrated on the airfields and our industrial capability while they had the capability they would have won.
That is the commonly held view, not one that actually stands up scrutiny. If you want an easy to read book that is very well researched and gives a very solid analysis of all the factors in play then might I suggest "The Battle of Britain" by James Holland (ISBN 978-0-552-15610-3). At 900 and odd pages, including a very comprehensive index, it is an excellent all round text book on the five months from May to October 1940.
Also being a modern book (2010) it avoids the mistakes, jingoisms, and omissions that were common in earlier histories. Some of the first works on the subject, from which many of the myths came from, did not even mention Radar and its force multiplier effect.
It is very good. He also wrote an excellent book on the war in Italy: Italy's Sorrow: A Year of War 1944-45. Well worth reading.
Mr. Penkridge, I put a quote from Marcus Aurelius ahead of Journey to Altmortis:
How much more grievous are the consequences of anger than the causes of it?
Mr. HYUFD, slicker, indeed. Umunna's Ed Miliband with added moisturiser and less likeability. He fares poorly with the bullshit test. Miliband was, at least, authentically singular. Umunna's a third rate Blair impersonator.
Mr. M, he also had bad judgement when it came to his personal life.
Rubbish, Umunna is more Blairite than Ed Miliband and the only Labour potential PM I can see in the present Labour ranks at Westminster with the possible exception of Dan Jarvis. By 2025 May will have been PM for 9 years, the Tories in power for 15, no government lasts for ever. Of course you are speaking as a right-wing Tory so Umunna does not need to appeal to you just voters who shifted from Blair to Cameron and then to May. Most voters also don't care about personal life nowadays
I do think it's still powering disputes in Eastern Europe. My mother (who I'm perhaps making out to be a hysterical character, but really wasn't) actively disliked the Ukraine and the Baltic States for perceived collaboraiton with the Nazis, and would certainly have felt strongly that Crimean separation was a splendid thing, even though she'd been British since 1937. Equally I know Ukrainians who find it hard to move on from historical injustices.
A domestic parallel is maybe Ireland. People on the mainland with a personal recollection of IRA or other attacks still feel strongly. Everyone else is vaguely aware of McGuinness and Adams hobnobbing with the Queen and in the local government and has pretty much moved on. As for the Falklands, hardly anyone feels the slightest resentment towards Argentina these days, except the relatives of lost Servicemen. It's personal loss that leaves lasting bitterness, everything else fades.
Nick: the reason I think our experience of WW2 influences the British attitude to Europe is two-fold and not related to the level of suffering:-
1. We were not invaded. The experience of invasion/liberation leaves lasting impressions which those who do not share it find hard to understand. Those who are liberated feel gratitude, true, but can and do also feel resentment and shame at having been put in that position. There is a sense of failure there which those countries which have not endured can often find hard to understand.
2. Our democracy kept going through the war and in the period leading up to it. Our nation state survived and coped. It was a success. It did not collapse into civil war and totalitarianism. That was not the case in Continental Europe. Britain did not see the nation state failing and, therefore, did not feel the same visceral need to replace it with something else. Most of Continental Europe did see their nation states fail. While we perhaps fail to understand why the drive to a new European order is so strong in Europe, many EU states fail to understand why Britain feels that its democracy/nation state does not need to be turned into something else as a result of the events which are the drivers behind the European project.
That's not quite right Cyclefree. Those that fought and returned home from WW2 voted for change in Britain. People were unhappy with the status quo.
They were also internationalist in outlook and promoted new institutions like the UN,Nato and the EU.
George Eaton Exclusive: Chuka Umunna will stand for election as home affairs select committee chair after "strong" support from Labour and Tory MPs.
Today the home affairs select committee. Tomorrow, the world!
Chuka for PM 2025! Get your badges now
As long as he is next Labour leader my very long bet will come in nicely!
Burgon is clearly the correct choice.
Too leftwing, especially after Corbyn and McDonnell are trounced in 2020
On a serious note I think Lewis has a decent chance..
Clive Lewis? Again, far too leftwing for the country, Chuka is more centrist, slicker and more articulate
Why does it matter what "the country" thinks as to who should be next Labour leader ?
'The country' is almost completely irrelevant.
Unless there are mass deselections (highly unlikely) and a Corbynista purge of the moderate rump of the party, Lewis won't get the nominations. The PLP won't make the mistake of nominating a far leftie again.
Indeed, once Corbyn is heavily defeated if he resigns no leftwinger will get near being nominated by MPs. Of course Corbyn could stay leader for life but then Labour will be in eternal opposition anyway
Nick: the reason I think our experience of WW2 influences the British attitude to Europe is two-fold and not related to the level of suffering:-
1. We were not invaded. The experience of invasion/liberation leaves lasting impressions which those who do not share it find hard to understand. Those who are liberated feel gratitude, true, but can and do also feel resentment and shame at having been put in that position. There is a sense of failure there which those countries which have not endured can often find hard to understand.
2. Our democracy kept going through the war and in the period leading up to it. Our nation state survived and coped. It was a success. It did not collapse into civil war and totalitarianism. That was not the case in Continental Europe. Britain did not see the nation state failing and, therefore, did not feel the same visceral need to replace it with something else. Most of Continental Europe did see their nation states fail. While we perhaps fail to understand why the drive to a new European order is so strong in Europe, many EU states fail to understand why Britain feels that its democracy/nation state does not need to be turned into something else as a result of the events which are the drivers behind the European project.
That's not quite right Cyclefree. Those that fought and returned home from WW2 voted for change in Britain. People were unhappy with the status quo.
They were also internationalist in outlook and promoted new institutions like the UN,Nato and the EU.
The UN/Nato are organisations where nation states come together for a common purpose. That is very different to an organization where the ultimate destination is, effectively, to do away with the concept of the nation state as it has been understood.
The economic news seems poor today, but I swear only a few days ago it was 'very positive' ?
Do things change that quickly, I suspect not.
Perhaps we're doing a 6.5/10 'OK' and neither spectacularly badly or well
July data vs August data.
This is all rubbish. The real impact on UK economy will come when we actually exit the single market. At that point the problems of trying to trade with the EU bloc without being in the SM will become apparent.
I'm still in the make the single market work camp and would favour staying in the EEA via EFTA. I don't think our external trade position is anywhere near strong enough to go it alone, at least not for the next 10 years.
European Single market membership plus participation in its rule making alongside better trade deals with USA, Canada, India, Japan, and China and increased skilled migration would be the ideal but I don't think there is enough support in the Tory party for it and certainly its not what the people of Sunderland thought they were voting for.
It is relying on the fact that the UK is large enough to carve out a bespoke deal with all the benefits of, indeed membership somehow, of the single market, yet with a control on immigration.
George Eaton Exclusive: Chuka Umunna will stand for election as home affairs select committee chair after "strong" support from Labour and Tory MPs.
Today the home affairs select committee. Tomorrow, the world!
Chuka for PM 2025! Get your badges now
I can just seem the industrial north and Midlands rushing out in droves to vote for Mr Metrosexual Chuck!
Given the UK will be out of the EU by then with immigration brought more under control and even Chuka himself said on Monday free movement needed to be reformed I can actually, especially if you add in the metropolitan cities and some of the suburbs too and the Tories will have been in power for 15 years by then
George Eaton Exclusive: Chuka Umunna will stand for election as home affairs select committee chair after "strong" support from Labour and Tory MPs.
Today the home affairs select committee. Tomorrow, the world!
Chuka for PM 2025! Get your badges now
As long as he is next Labour leader my very long bet will come in nicely!
Burgon is clearly the correct choice.
Too leftwing, especially after Corbyn and McDonnell are trounced in 2020
On a serious note I think Lewis has a decent chance..
Clive Lewis? Again, far too leftwing for the country, Chuka is more centrist, slicker and more articulate
Why does it matter what "the country" thinks as to who should be next Labour leader ?
'The country' is almost completely irrelevant.
Unless there are mass deselections (highly unlikely) and a Corbynista purge of the moderate rump of the party, Lewis won't get the nominations. The PLP won't make the mistake of nominating a far leftie again.
Indeed, once Corbyn is heavily defeated if he resigns no leftwinger will get near being nominated by MPs. Of course Corbyn could stay leader for life but then Labour will be in eternal opposition anyway
Except there are plans to reduce the needed nominations to a handful (can't recall the precise % - 5?). So that even in dire situation the hard-left will always have a candidate.
Mr. HYUFD, Umunna fails because he's such a metropolitan, professional politician sort of person. He's Cameron with less likeability. Blair with less acting talent. An ego on waxed legs.
Where's the beef?
Mildly surprised to once again be claimed as a PB Tory.
George Eaton Exclusive: Chuka Umunna will stand for election as home affairs select committee chair after "strong" support from Labour and Tory MPs.
Today the home affairs select committee. Tomorrow, the world!
Chuka for PM 2025! Get your badges now
As long as he is next Labour leader my very long bet will come in nicely!
Burgon is clearly the correct choice.
Too leftwing, especially after Corbyn and McDonnell are trounced in 2020
On a serious note I think Lewis has a decent chance..
Clive Lewis? Again, far too leftwing for the country, Chuka is more centrist, slicker and more articulate
Why does it matter what "the country" thinks as to who should be next Labour leader ?
'The country' is almost completely irrelevant.
Unless there are mass deselections (highly unlikely) and a Corbynista purge of the moderate rump of the party, Lewis won't get the nominations. The PLP won't make the mistake of nominating a far leftie again.
Even if there are no mass deselections and even if there is no purge, if Corbyn survives to 2020 then the PLP post-2020 will not be the same as the PLP today.
At any election, possibly especially this year, many long-standing MPs retire. The left and the unions can try to fill those vacancies with new left wing MPs. The 2015 intake already was more left-wing than the established PLP and that was before Corbynites took over the party.
Furthermore assuming that those who hold the most marginal seats are moderates (since they appeal to the centre-ground, unlike safe seats like Islington) then if in 2020 Labour loses seats then it will be moderates that fall first and that will lower the threshold for nominations even further.
That is before we even consider things like the boundary commissions influence.
@PSMcClean: The news we all secretly feared - price of red red wine to jump as weak pound pushes up import costs. https://t.co/832uAUTXIS
Drink beautiful British craft beer Scott - those fruit based drinks are for the lovely ladies.
I never knew you were an Al Murray fan Mr. Flashman(deceased). If Mr. P is a red wine chap then possibly his bet for value is to go for the Chilean stuff. If he can cope with white or rose then the fall in the value of the pound make some of the English wines even more attractive. Ridgeview, Nyetimber (if you must) or Bolney estate are a little expensive for everyday drinking but become less so and much better value as the Frog stuff becomes even more over-priced.
The London Blitz began 75 years ago on 7 September 1940, and marked the start of 57 consecutive nights of bombing. https://t.co/EqpTNL95nj
Great Pathe footage
My Dad was three when it began. I remember my grandmother telling me about him shaking and crying in the bomb shelter as everything exploded above ground. It's extraordinary to think that it happened to people so close. The idea that both my Dad and grandmother (and the rest of the family) were literally sitting in a hole while bombs rained down on London is just so hard to get my head round. Likewise, the Dad of one of my closest friends lost his entire family at Auschwitz. He managed to get to Britain as part of the kinder transport project and was adopted into a middle class Christian family, but he grew up knowing everyone else he loved had been murdered by the Nazis. These are people I know and they were right in the middle of total horror - as appalling as anything that is happening now. No wonder WW2 is still so vivid in our collective memory and so hard to leave behind.
My mother had a similar experience - but in Naples - hiding in the cellars of their home as the Allies bombed it. One of my uncles told me of how terrified he was hearing the bombs fall. Eventually, part of the family moved to Rome (the girls living in one place, the boys in another) and none of the family seeing my grandfather who stayed in Naples until the war was over. She remembers the convent where they stayed as being full of Jews who sheltered there. Her maternal line was Jewish, even though they had been Catholics for several generations.
When I contrast her experiences with that of my daughter at the same age, so fortunate to have lived entirely through a time of peace, and, indeed, my own, the phrase "count your blessings" really does have meaning.
Whatever the worries about Brexit, the economy etc, we are really very fortunate.
Unless you are in Syria.
It really is intolerable that such a situation should be allowed to persist; perhaps another legacy of Iraq. Which power is going to commit hundreds of thousands of troops to make and then maintain peace anywhere these days?
It is an irony that at a time of globalization and when internationalism is meant to be all the rage, at least amongst the bien pensants, the idea of intervening in a situation beyond our borders to stop an intolerable situation is so unfashionable.
Perhaps all this love for internationalism is a bit like Augustine's take on celibacy. "Make me an internationalist - but not yet - and not in Syria. Or Iraq. Or Somalia. Or Yemen. Or South Sudan. Or Afghanistan. Or anywhere else nasty."
The economic news seems poor today, but I swear only a few days ago it was 'very positive' ?
Do things change that quickly, I suspect not.
Perhaps we're doing a 6.5/10 'OK' and neither spectacularly badly or well
July data vs August data.
This is all rubbish. The real impact on UK economy will come when we actually exit the single market. At that point the problems of trying to trade with the EU bloc without being in the SM will become apparent.
I'm still in the make the single market work camp and would favour staying in the EEA via EFTA. I don't think our external trade position is anywhere near strong enough to go it alone, at least not for the next 10 years.
European Single market membership plus participation in its rule making alongside better trade deals with USA, Canada, India, Japan, and China and increased skilled migration would be the ideal but I don't think there is enough support in the Tory party for it and certainly its not what the people of Sunderland thought they were voting for.
It is relying on the fact that the UK is large enough to carve out a bespoke deal with all the benefits of, indeed membership somehow, of the single market, yet with a control on immigration.
Are any of our current relevant SoSs up to the task of achieving it? Bigger ask atm, IMO.
None of our SoS seem that internationalist in outlook even if they were competent enough to negotiate all that. Even if they were, with Tory MPs sending out tweets about the British Empire and how being in the Single Market means you have to be in the EU, there wouldn't be enough MP support for it.
Mr. HYUFD, Umunna fails because he's such a metropolitan, professional politician sort of person. He's Cameron with less likeability. Blair with less acting talent. An ego on waxed legs.
Where's the beef?
Mildly surprised to once again be claimed as a PB Tory.
Mr. HYUFD, Umunna fails because he's such a metropolitan, professional politician sort of person. He's Cameron with less likeability. Blair with less acting talent. An ego on waxed legs.
Where's the beef?
Mildly surprised to once again be claimed as a PB Tory.
OK PB Kipper then, so even less likely to ever vote Labour. After almost a decade of a provincial, dull, middle England PM, voters may want a charismatic, slick, metropolitan PM again. After all Blair beat Major after 18 years of Tory rule. May is tough and competent which is what is needed now but after a decade voters may want something new
Comments
National stereotypes arriving in 3, 2, 1...
Off topic, this is tremendous.
https://twitter.com/davidtpegg/status/773450908994764800
I have never owned a German car - but that is partly due to being an engineer from the Midlands.
Miss Plato, interesting Hadrian gets remembered, and Trajan, but Antoninus does not.
As for Ireland - one of the reasons that Labour will do so badly in the West Midlands at the next election under Jeremy is that collective memory of the Birmingham pub bombings is very much alive. Everyone remembers them, not just those directly affected.
http://labourlist.org/2016/09/the-shock-from-stockton-should-be-heard-all-around-corbyns-labour-party/
As an aside, it's worth reminding the site that invading France was in the 2015 Morris Dancer Party manifesto.
Edited extra bit: Calais would already be under our control had that happened.
The original version was with the 'pained anguish of a bear with a bumblebee trapped under its foreskin'
But I don't know it bear todgers have foreskins.
I regret googling 'bear foreskins' given what bears mean in the homosexual community.
Other than that, I take your point.
Politics even more of a shambles now than it was in June, I note.
No Brexit before 2020 (effectively impossible because of budgetary constraints). The SoS for Brexit not actually knowing what the government's goals for Brexit are. Useless Corbyn still there and going nowhere.
I do wonder why we bother, really I do.
"History is about to repeat itself on a magnitude that could be revolutionary in British politics, and in its potentially fatal consequences for the Labour party."
Wake up Labour!
May could abandon Brexit altogether and still win the election easily, so utterly shambolic and hopeless are her opponents.
Mr. Jonathan, of course. In the spirit of equal opportunities, we shall extend the benefits of British rule to all of France
Mr. Eagles, a safer alternative might be a fractured penis bone.
"The Elements of Eloquence" by Mark Forsyth.
It's a fiver for the e-book, a lovely and engaging read.
And don't forget to give Explorations a look. [By coincidence, it also includes a castration joke].
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Explorations-Through-Wormhole-Ralph-Kern-ebook/dp/B01LC0JZD4/
When I contrast her experiences with that of my daughter at the same age, so fortunate to have lived entirely through a time of peace, and, indeed, my own, the phrase "count your blessings" really does have meaning.
Whatever the worries about Brexit, the economy etc, we are really very fortunate.
Marcus Aurelius
Obviously exports are part of the way in which we fund our import habit, so I'm much more interested in our current account and OTS now the immediate shock has worn off. We can pretty much ignore July's figures as we know that was the nadir. Think we get the first proper indications in October iirc.
Any possible change in the economy will happen after we've left or, IMO, once the government sets out its position on single market, trade, immigration and equivalency.
I'm still in the make the single market work camp and would favour staying in the EEA via EFTA. I don't think our external trade position is anywhere near strong enough to go it alone, at least not for the next 10 years. Then again, I'm fairly relaxed about immigration and think any curbs can be achieved over here by reforming the benefits system.
(P.S. Hope you are well Pulpstar)
'The country' is almost completely irrelevant.
Also being a modern book (2010) it avoids the mistakes, jingoisms, and omissions that were common in earlier histories. Some of the first works on the subject, from which many of the myths came from, did not even mention Radar and its force multiplier effect.
1. We were not invaded. The experience of invasion/liberation leaves lasting impressions which those who do not share it find hard to understand. Those who are liberated feel gratitude, true, but can and do also feel resentment and shame at having been put in that position. There is a sense of failure there which those countries which have not endured can often find hard to understand.
2. Our democracy kept going through the war and in the period leading up to it. Our nation state survived and coped. It was a success. It did not collapse into civil war and totalitarianism. That was not the case in Continental Europe. Britain did not see the nation state failing and, therefore, did not feel the same visceral need to replace it with something else. Most of Continental Europe did see their nation states fail. While we perhaps fail to understand why the drive to a new European order is so strong in Europe, many EU states fail to understand why Britain feels that its democracy/nation state does not need to be turned into something else as a result of the events which are the drivers behind the European project.
Anyway, with Climate Change turning us into the south of France it won't be long before we become a major global wine producing nation. As the Italian and French vines wither in the heat and droughts to come, we might well be in the "sweet spot" within the next 20 years!
Roger will be able to relocate from the Cote D'azur to Clacton...
Every silver lining etc...
Data released today showed Germany industrial production posted its steepest fall in 23 months in July. UK industrial production rose a bit.
How much more grievous are the consequences of anger than the causes of it?
Mr. HYUFD, slicker, indeed. Umunna's Ed Miliband with added moisturiser and less likeability. He fares poorly with the bullshit test. Miliband was, at least, authentically singular. Umunna's a third rate Blair impersonator.
Mr. M, he also had bad judgement when it came to his personal life.
I've just taken a bite of the 6/4 at Ladbrokes for the UK still being a full member of the EU by 1st Jan 2020.
It really is intolerable that such a situation should be allowed to persist; perhaps another legacy of Iraq. Which power is going to commit hundreds of thousands of troops to make and then maintain peace anywhere these days?
Do you think Chuck exfoliates when he moisturizes?
They were also internationalist in outlook and promoted new institutions like the UN,Nato and the EU.
Blair - tick
Brown - tick
Burgon -..ick
Mr. Royale, may come off, but short odds for a four year bet.
http://www2.politicalbetting.com/index.php/archives/2016/06/18/britains-original-sins/
The UN/Nato are organisations where nation states come together for a common purpose. That is very different to an organization where the ultimate destination is, effectively, to do away with the concept of the nation state as it has been understood.
These guys think that's possible:
bruegel.org/2016/08/europe-after-brexit-a-proposal-for-a-continental-partnership/
It might be; I think it's a big ask (as I have, ahem, commented on the article).
Are any of our current relevant SoSs up to the task of achieving it? Bigger ask atm, IMO.
You'd think so. But Corbyn surely won't resign when he loses. He doesn't really care about elections (unless to a parish council)
Where's the beef?
Mildly surprised to once again be claimed as a PB Tory.
At any election, possibly especially this year, many long-standing MPs retire. The left and the unions can try to fill those vacancies with new left wing MPs. The 2015 intake already was more left-wing than the established PLP and that was before Corbynites took over the party.
Furthermore assuming that those who hold the most marginal seats are moderates (since they appeal to the centre-ground, unlike safe seats like Islington) then if in 2020 Labour loses seats then it will be moderates that fall first and that will lower the threshold for nominations even further.
That is before we even consider things like the boundary commissions influence.
Perhaps all this love for internationalism is a bit like Augustine's take on celibacy. "Make me an internationalist - but not yet - and not in Syria. Or Iraq. Or Somalia. Or Yemen. Or South Sudan. Or Afghanistan. Or anywhere else nasty."
"where is the bit that you got right minister?"