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politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Cyclefree on the perils of hubris

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    John_MJohn_M Posts: 7,503

    John_M said:

    As soon as I've sorted out the last problems with my genetically engineered giant insects, you may as well give up any hope of medals, human scum.

    The next games are going to be hosted by Klendathu???
    I just need to iron a few bugs out. Boom! Tish! I'll get etc.
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    kle4kle4 Posts: 91,898

    stodge said:



    The late Terry Pratchett maintained in several of his books that from a standing start and over a short distance a man is faster than a horse (less legs to sort out or something). I have no idea if he was correct.

    They've run human vs horse races over both distances and sprint trips. Over 220 yards or one furlong, there wouldn't be much in it and Usain Bolt would just beat a thoroughbred - the horse goes about 20 seconds from a starting stall. In full gallop, a horse covers 220 yards in 12-13 seconds comfortably outpacing a human.

    At extreme distances, the human closes up again.



    So Pratchett was correct!
    Next step genetic testing to see if humanity really is where the falling angel meets the rising ape.

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    Andrew said:

    Sandpit said:

    The statistic about the 100m times the other day was shocking, but then again most of us can remember back to the bad old days of Ben Johnson and Flo-Jo in 1988. Copious amounts of drugs and a dodgy and wind meter mean the women's 100m record could stand for a century.

    It's been going on longer than that. Doping in the 100m has been the norm since at least the 70s. I'd be surprised if there's been a clean medallist since, it's just too much of an advantage for anyone clean to get close.
    You doubt Bolt is clean?
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    PlatoSaidPlatoSaid Posts: 10,383

    Mr. Doethur, sharks? Glorified goldfish beside the genetic supremacy of the enormo-haddock!

    Mr. Taffys, Hamilton is likely to win a third consecutive driver's title (fourth total), and is currently 40/1 for SPOTY.

    People with no personality win SPOTY. :disappointed:
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    AndrewAndrew Posts: 2,900
    edited August 2016


    You doubt Bolt is clean?

    Well, given the extensive history of doping in the 100m, and the extensive history of doping by Jamaicans, and that he's absolutely shattered all records set by dopers .......
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    John_MJohn_M Posts: 7,503
    kle4 said:

    stodge said:



    The late Terry Pratchett maintained in several of his books that from a standing start and over a short distance a man is faster than a horse (less legs to sort out or something). I have no idea if he was correct.

    They've run human vs horse races over both distances and sprint trips. Over 220 yards or one furlong, there wouldn't be much in it and Usain Bolt would just beat a thoroughbred - the horse goes about 20 seconds from a starting stall. In full gallop, a horse covers 220 yards in 12-13 seconds comfortably outpacing a human.

    At extreme distances, the human closes up again.



    So Pratchett was correct!
    Next step genetic testing to see if humanity really is where the falling angel meets the rising ape.

    It's only a matter of time before Semenya syndrome is artificially induced.
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    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,957
    stodge said:



    The late Terry Pratchett maintained in several of his books that from a standing start and over a short distance a man is faster than a horse (less legs to sort out or something). I have no idea if he was correct.

    They've run human vs horse races over both distances and sprint trips. Over 220 yards or one furlong, there wouldn't be much in it and Usain Bolt would just beat a thoroughbred - the horse goes about 20 seconds from a starting stall. In full gallop, a horse covers 220 yards in 12-13 seconds comfortably outpacing a human.

    At extreme distances, the human closes up again.



    22 miles.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Man_versus_Horse_Marathon

    1984 Horse William Jones on Solitaire (1:20)

    http://www.chronofhorse.com/article/world-endurance-record-broken

    100 miles horse, 5 hr 45.

    Afraid the horses are faster at all distances. (Though of course on a road it would be cruel to run a horse in say the London marathon as their legs would get knackered)
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    SandpitSandpit Posts: 49,927
    edited August 2016
    A rare 1/2f horse race, pretty much 100m and done in seven seconds. The human v horse race would need to be shorter, 60m maybe, if the human can react quickly enough to the gun.

    https://youtu.be/9JGcOIx-Qrg
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    JackWJackW Posts: 14,787
    Naked ladies spear carrying beach dressage ....

    Oh .... that might have been a dream last night .... and a bloody corker too !! .... :smile:
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    taffystaffys Posts: 9,753
    edited August 2016
    ''I'd vote for this.''

    This year UKIP produced an (albeit disputed) dossier of 50 people with very serious criminal records who had slipped the UK under free movement. Its 50 too many. These people should be absolute non-starters.

    In the West End we sometime have street beggars who appear to know one word of English (please) which they repeat incessantly to all passers by. I feel sorry for these people as they are clearly being run in teams by some nasty gang master, but I have a feeling they also act as lookouts for other forms of crime.

    What are the whole pack of them doing here? They are never going to get past a points system.

    Some posters don't see the difference between 'rough' and 'smooth' immigration, but that's possibly because they are rich enough not to.
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    taffystaffys Posts: 9,753
    On the topic of sprinting and doping I advise everybody to be careful, libelwise
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    Moses_Moses_ Posts: 4,865
    Just up the road they used to have the annual Vladivar Vodka 24 hour lawn mower Grand Prix.

    Often thought that would be a great Olympic sport and the grass would also be sorted ready for the field events.
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    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,957
    Horse diving was actually a thing:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z-73CxaitJg

    You'd have thought it would have ended back in the 20s, or possibly 60s.

    But it happened in Atlantic City NJ in 1993 o_O

    http://www.nj.com/news/index.ssf/2012/02/atlantic_city_taking_a_risky_p.html

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    SimonStClareSimonStClare Posts: 7,976
    JackW said:

    Naked ladies spear carrying beach dressage ....

    Oh .... that might have been a dream last night .... and a bloody corker too !! .... :smile:

    Not sure what matron is slipping into your cocoa, but it doesn’t appear to be working. :lol:
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    maaarshmaaarsh Posts: 3,391
    On topic, I'd conclude that whereas the voters voted out of fear of Miliband in the last general election and didn't in this referendum, it's because they (perhaps accurately) assessed that the risks were far lower.
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    JackWJackW Posts: 14,787

    JackW said:

    Naked ladies spear carrying beach dressage ....

    Oh .... that might have been a dream last night .... and a bloody corker too !! .... :smile:

    Not sure what matron is slipping into your cocoa, but it doesn’t appear to be working. :lol:
    Oh but it is ....:sunglasses:
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    John_MJohn_M Posts: 7,503
    maaarsh said:

    On topic, I'd conclude that whereas the voters voted out of fear of Miliband in the last general election and didn't in this referendum, it's because they (perhaps accurately) assessed that the risks were far lower.

    I'd argue that the issue is so complex (who understands the UK, never mind the European, economy?) that people ended up going with their gut - for good or ill.
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    PlatoSaidPlatoSaid Posts: 10,383
    edited August 2016
    Pulpstar said:

    Horse diving was actually a thing:

    ttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z-73CxaitJg

    You'd have thought it would have ended back in the 20s, or possibly 60s.

    But it happened in Atlantic City NJ in 1993 o_O

    http://www.nj.com/news/index.ssf/2012/02/atlantic_city_taking_a_risky_p.html

    :open_mouth:
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    kle4kle4 Posts: 91,898
    John_M said:

    maaarsh said:

    On topic, I'd conclude that whereas the voters voted out of fear of Miliband in the last general election and didn't in this referendum, it's because they (perhaps accurately) assessed that the risks were far lower.

    I'd argue that the issue is so complex (who understands the UK, never mind the European, economy?) that people ended up going with their gut - for good or ill.
    As with most such choices, and then rationalise that gut instinct. We all do it, to a greater or lesser degree.
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    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,957
    On topic:

    David Cameron never seemed to have a plan B should Brexit actually occur.

    Do we see leaders that plan for stuff not going as expected as weak or some such ? Overconfidence seems to be a remarkably consistent trait with regards to leadership.
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    JackWJackW Posts: 14,787
    Georgia - Opinion Savvy/Fox5

    Clinton 42.8 .. Trump 43

    http://opinionsavvy.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/08/OS-GA-General-8.18.16.pdf
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    alex.alex. Posts: 4,658
    Andrew said:


    You doubt Bolt is clean?

    Well, given the extensive history of doping in the 100m, and the extensive history of doping by Jamaicans, and that he's absolutely shattered all records set by dopers .......
    Bolt is different, whatever else is or isn't going on with Jamaican sprinters. He has natural attributes that the other sprinters can't compete with, no matter how drugged up they might be.
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    Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 25,497
    PlatoSaid said:

    Mr. Doethur, sharks? Glorified goldfish beside the genetic supremacy of the enormo-haddock!

    Mr. Taffys, Hamilton is likely to win a third consecutive driver's title (fourth total), and is currently 40/1 for SPOTY.

    People with no personality win SPOTY. :disappointed:
    Great sportsmen and women often have quite unprepossessing personalities. Goes with the trade. Sports personality could be one of those pairings where the former word negates the latter.
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    Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 60,997
    Mr. Pulpstar, it's not mere over-confidence, it's dereliction of duty. The referendum was not a black swan, it was a flock of honking white swans. And the polls were consistently close.
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    alex.alex. Posts: 4,658
    edited August 2016

    PlatoSaid said:

    Mr. Doethur, sharks? Glorified goldfish beside the genetic supremacy of the enormo-haddock!

    Mr. Taffys, Hamilton is likely to win a third consecutive driver's title (fourth total), and is currently 40/1 for SPOTY.

    People with no personality win SPOTY. :disappointed:
    Great sportsmen and women often have quite unprepossessing personalities. Goes with the trade. Sports personality could be one of those pairings where the former word negates the latter.
    Don't really know why Hamilton is being given the "no personality" tag. He may not be everyone's cup of tea, but that's not quite the same thing.
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    JackWJackW Posts: 14,787
    National - IPSOS/Reuters

    Clinton 41 .. Trump 33 - RV
    Clinton 41 .. Trump 36 - LV

    http://www.realclearpolitics.com/docs/2016_Reuters_Tracking_-_Core_Political_8.17_.16_.pdf
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    kle4kle4 Posts: 91,898
    edited August 2016
    alex. said:

    PlatoSaid said:

    Mr. Doethur, sharks? Glorified goldfish beside the genetic supremacy of the enormo-haddock!

    Mr. Taffys, Hamilton is likely to win a third consecutive driver's title (fourth total), and is currently 40/1 for SPOTY.

    People with no personality win SPOTY. :disappointed:
    Great sportsmen and women often have quite unprepossessing personalities. Goes with the trade. Sports personality could be one of those pairings where the former word negates the latter.
    Don't really know why Hamilton is being given the "no personality" tag. He may not be everyone's cup of tea, but that's not quite the same thing.
    I don't think he has no personality. It's mostly a bland personality with a little bit of being a prat, but compared to some others in F1 he has bucketfuls of personality as he can occasionally liven up.

    Unprepossessing personality is actually one of the best ways of describing a lot of sportsmen and women. They can be a little too focused, standoffish or weird, or just boring. Or outright unlikable. That's why ones who are genuinely charismatic can be so adored, and those who are refreshingly 'normal also celebrated.
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    One aspect above all others persuaded me to vote LEAVE. That was the insulting and patronising way in which David Cameron tried to pretend he had achieved a great deal from other EU member states in his so-called re-negotiations, when in truth he achieved next to nothing.
    We knew this from the outset, based on his very modest demands and the way in which he was determined to conclude his discussions with undue haste, when by his own self-imposed timetable, he could readily have continued negotiating for a further 18 months. For whatever reason, he deliberately chose not to.
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    TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 41,386
    Charles said:

    Jonathan said:

    Time for some Olympic mashups.

    I'd like to see an innovative combination of Dressage and Diving.

    I'd still love to see a horse in the back seat of a kayak....
    Or water polo. On horseback.
    I had a friend who was captain of two England teams:

    Ice Cricket and Elephant Polo

    I did try to persuade him that - for cost efficiency - he should promote Ice Elephant Cricket
    The same person? When was he captain of the elephant polo team?
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    maaarshmaaarsh Posts: 3,391
    alex. said:

    Andrew said:


    You doubt Bolt is clean?

    Well, given the extensive history of doping in the 100m, and the extensive history of doping by Jamaicans, and that he's absolutely shattered all records set by dopers .......
    Bolt is different, whatever else is or isn't going on with Jamaican sprinters. He has natural attributes that the other sprinters can't compete with, no matter how drugged up they might be.
    He has the body of a 400m runner but is magically able to accelerate to top speed quicker than anyone else of his stature.

    He certainly isn't how you would designed the perfect sprinter 'by the book'.
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    tlg86tlg86 Posts: 25,194
    Pulpstar said:

    On topic:

    David Cameron never seemed to have a plan B should Brexit actually occur.

    Do we see leaders that plan for stuff not going as expected as weak or some such ? Overconfidence seems to be a remarkably consistent trait with regards to leadership.

    It was certainly Cameron's MO, perhaps it was instilled in him at school/university. Furthermore, after the 2015 General Election, he probably thought he was untouchable.
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    JackWJackW Posts: 14,787
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    DavidLDavidL Posts: 51,350

    One aspect above all others persuaded me to vote LEAVE. That was the insulting and patronising way in which David Cameron tried to pretend he had achieved a great deal from other EU member states in his so-called re-negotiations, when in truth he achieved next to nothing.
    We knew this from the outset, based on his very modest demands and the way in which he was determined to conclude his discussions with undue haste, when by his own self-imposed timetable, he could readily have continued negotiating for a further 18 months. For whatever reason, he deliberately chose not to.

    This was certainly a factor in my decision to vote leave but my reasoning was somewhat different. What Cameron's negotiations showed me that real change was not possible within the EU, it is a bureaucratic mess which is frankly indifferent to what its citizens want and is incapable of addressing those concerns.

    If Cameron had shown that perception to be false and achieved real reform recognising the stresses freedom of movement were causing Britain I would probably have voted differently but his half hearted attempts convinced me that my assessment of the EU was shared by those on the inside. Leaving was the only sensible option.
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    kle4kle4 Posts: 91,898
    tlg86 said:

    Pulpstar said:

    On topic:

    David Cameron never seemed to have a plan B should Brexit actually occur.

    Do we see leaders that plan for stuff not going as expected as weak or some such ? Overconfidence seems to be a remarkably consistent trait with regards to leadership.

    It was certainly Cameron's MO, perhaps it was instilled in him at school/university. Furthermore, after the 2015 General Election, he probably thought he was untouchable.
    His not taking it easy in the campaign does not seem like the actions of a man who was overconfident. Overconfident people do not fight that hard in ways they know would aggravate sections of their own base in the near future, unless they felt they could not win without such extremity. Failure to plan for not winning is another issue than overconfidence or thinking oneself untouchable.
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    kle4kle4 Posts: 91,898
    DavidL said:

    One aspect above all others persuaded me to vote LEAVE. That was the insulting and patronising way in which David Cameron tried to pretend he had achieved a great deal from other EU member states in his so-called re-negotiations, when in truth he achieved next to nothing.
    We knew this from the outset, based on his very modest demands and the way in which he was determined to conclude his discussions with undue haste, when by his own self-imposed timetable, he could readily have continued negotiating for a further 18 months. For whatever reason, he deliberately chose not to.

    What Cameron's negotiations showed me that real change was not possible within the EU
    Probably not. It might, if it is sensible, start to make real change possible, as a result of our leaving. Catch 22.
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    John_MJohn_M Posts: 7,503
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    TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 41,386
    edited August 2016
    DavidL said:

    One aspect above all others persuaded me to vote LEAVE. That was the insulting and patronising way in which David Cameron tried to pretend he had achieved a great deal from other EU member states in his so-called re-negotiations, when in truth he achieved next to nothing.
    We knew this from the outset, based on his very modest demands and the way in which he was determined to conclude his discussions with undue haste, when by his own self-imposed timetable, he could readily have continued negotiating for a further 18 months. For whatever reason, he deliberately chose not to.

    This was certainly a factor in my decision to vote leave but my reasoning was somewhat different. What Cameron's negotiations showed me that real change was not possible within the EU, it is a bureaucratic mess which is frankly indifferent to what its citizens want and is incapable of addressing those concerns.

    If Cameron had shown that perception to be false and achieved real reform recognising the stresses freedom of movement were causing Britain I would probably have voted differently but his half hearted attempts convinced me that my assessment of the EU was shared by those on the inside. Leaving was the only sensible option.
    So you were never going to vote Remain. Fine.

    A cursory glance at any EU directive or treaty would have confirmed that the EU was never going to change and why should it have, with only one member agitating for it and then only one subsection (as was) on the loony right of the Conservative Party of that one member.

    Dave understood this; you understood this. What Dave did get is special status and some important opt-outs. He never got a promise that the EU was not going to continue its march towards federalism. He wisely never asked. Like wisely not asking if you could play darts at Wimbledon instead of tennis. What he did ask for, and received, addressed the key issues that the nation said were important. He did badly on the immigration bit.

    You and I disagree over the importance or weight of those opt-outs. I think they were legitimate. You, presumably think they were for show.

    But it is difficult to accept you would have voted Remain under any possible realistic circumstances.
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    JackWJackW Posts: 14,787
    Nate Silver of 538 looks at Trump's swing state death spiral :

    http://fivethirtyeight.com/features/trump-is-doubling-down-on-a-losing-strategy/
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    tlg86tlg86 Posts: 25,194
    kle4 said:

    tlg86 said:

    Pulpstar said:

    On topic:

    David Cameron never seemed to have a plan B should Brexit actually occur.

    Do we see leaders that plan for stuff not going as expected as weak or some such ? Overconfidence seems to be a remarkably consistent trait with regards to leadership.

    It was certainly Cameron's MO, perhaps it was instilled in him at school/university. Furthermore, after the 2015 General Election, he probably thought he was untouchable.
    His not taking it easy in the campaign does not seem like the actions of a man who was overconfident. Overconfident people do not fight that hard in ways they know would aggravate sections of their own base in the near future, unless they felt they could not win without such extremity. Failure to plan for not winning is another issue than overconfidence or thinking oneself untouchable.
    I certainly think he was overconfident in terms of the renegotiation and the timing of the vote. At no point did he think he would have to go nuclear and back Leave and as such got very little from the renegotiation. This was exacerbated by Cameron wanting to get it over and done with.

    When the polls didn't move his way decisively after the local elections him and his team went into full on panic mode.
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    rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 58,278
    edited August 2016
    JackW said:

    Nate Silver of 538 looks at Trump's swing state death spiral :

    http://fivethirtyeight.com/features/trump-is-doubling-down-on-a-losing-strategy/

    Well, its gonna be a lot of fun as Trump tries to be more Trumptastic under the guidance of Steve Bannon. This is looking like either a landslide* or the biggest recovery in American history.

    * edit: for HRC I mean.
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    JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 39,056
    kle4 said:

    alex. said:

    PlatoSaid said:

    Mr. Doethur, sharks? Glorified goldfish beside the genetic supremacy of the enormo-haddock!

    Mr. Taffys, Hamilton is likely to win a third consecutive driver's title (fourth total), and is currently 40/1 for SPOTY.

    People with no personality win SPOTY. :disappointed:
    Great sportsmen and women often have quite unprepossessing personalities. Goes with the trade. Sports personality could be one of those pairings where the former word negates the latter.
    Don't really know why Hamilton is being given the "no personality" tag. He may not be everyone's cup of tea, but that's not quite the same thing.
    I don't think he has no personality. It's mostly a bland personality with a little bit of being a prat, but compared to some others in F1 he has bucketfuls of personality as he can occasionally liven up.

    Unprepossessing personality is actually one of the best ways of describing a lot of sportsmen and women. They can be a little too focused, standoffish or weird, or just boring. Or outright unlikable. That's why ones who are genuinely charismatic can be so adored, and those who are refreshingly 'normal also celebrated.
    A good friend of mine used to represent England at a water-based sport, and does Ironman triathlons as a hobby. He could have done it semi-professionally fifteen or so years ago (there was less money in the sport back then), but he turned down the opportunity.

    The reason: he was earning well as an engineer, but the main reason was that he found the training utterly boring. He says that most - not all - top sportsmen are either quite thick, or have extraordinary minds who can switch off for training.

    Then again, in summer he regularly does 100+mile bike rides.

    As for sportsmen being boring: I think sponsorship has a great deal to do with it. They don't want to upset sponsors, and the best way to do that is not to say anything outrageous.
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    perdixperdix Posts: 1,806
    DavidL said:

    One aspect above all others persuaded me to vote LEAVE. That was the insulting and patronising way in which David Cameron tried to pretend he had achieved a great deal from other EU member states in his so-called re-negotiations, when in truth he achieved next to nothing.
    We knew this from the outset, based on his very modest demands and the way in which he was determined to conclude his discussions with undue haste, when by his own self-imposed timetable, he could readily have continued negotiating for a further 18 months. For whatever reason, he deliberately chose not to.

    This was certainly a factor in my decision to vote leave but my reasoning was somewhat different. What Cameron's negotiations showed me that real change was not possible within the EU, it is a bureaucratic mess which is frankly indifferent to what its citizens want and is incapable of addressing those concerns.

    If Cameron had shown that perception to be false and achieved real reform recognising the stresses freedom of movement were causing Britain I would probably have voted differently but his half hearted attempts convinced me that my assessment of the EU was shared by those on the inside. Leaving was the only sensible option.
    The real reason why change in the EU seemed impossible was that the majority of EU politicians have the objective of a United States of Europe and they don't want to jeopardise their gravy train. However, it is now becoming clearer to many of them that "one size fits all" for currency, labour movement and other institutions are at a minimum counter-productive or may lead to the eventual breakup of the Union.

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    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 54,031
    JackW said:

    Nate Silver of 538 looks at Trump's swing state death spiral :

    http://fivethirtyeight.com/features/trump-is-doubling-down-on-a-losing-strategy/

    The most interesting part of that polling - to me - is that Gary Johnson has taken a meaningful chunk of the Republican vote share in Colorado, New Hampshire and Virginia. If this leads to Hillary wining those states then the Trump path to the Presidency is narrow indeed.
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    Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 55,457

    Moses_ said:

    PlatoSaid said:

    Hell Yeah!


    1 United States 31 32 31 94

    2 Great Britain 20 21 13 54

    3 China 19 15 20 54

    4 Germany 13 8 9 30

    5 Russia 12 14 15 41

    6 Japan 10 5 18 33

    So good to see us doing so well at the Brexit Games!

    Equal on total medals with China!
    It's 21 21 13 now just looked
    Permission to swoon (again!)
    We're pulling away from China on silvers too. They need to get several golds ahead to take second.

    Heh.

    All we need now is for Britain's Captain's of Industry to stop being so bloody namby-pamby and take a leaf out of British Sport's playbook. Then file the UK under "Worldbeaters"...

    It amuses me greatly that China are so annoyed we are beating them in the medal table.
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    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 54,031
    perdix said:

    DavidL said:

    One aspect above all others persuaded me to vote LEAVE. That was the insulting and patronising way in which David Cameron tried to pretend he had achieved a great deal from other EU member states in his so-called re-negotiations, when in truth he achieved next to nothing.
    We knew this from the outset, based on his very modest demands and the way in which he was determined to conclude his discussions with undue haste, when by his own self-imposed timetable, he could readily have continued negotiating for a further 18 months. For whatever reason, he deliberately chose not to.

    This was certainly a factor in my decision to vote leave but my reasoning was somewhat different. What Cameron's negotiations showed me that real change was not possible within the EU, it is a bureaucratic mess which is frankly indifferent to what its citizens want and is incapable of addressing those concerns.

    If Cameron had shown that perception to be false and achieved real reform recognising the stresses freedom of movement were causing Britain I would probably have voted differently but his half hearted attempts convinced me that my assessment of the EU was shared by those on the inside. Leaving was the only sensible option.
    The real reason why change in the EU seemed impossible was that the majority of EU politicians have the objective of a United States of Europe and they don't want to jeopardise their gravy train. However, it is now becoming clearer to many of them that "one size fits all" for currency, labour movement and other institutions are at a minimum counter-productive or may lead to the eventual breakup of the Union.

    I think the currency union *needs* freedom of labour. If you go back to the papers at the start of the Euro in 1998/1999, there was a lot of talk about optimum currency areas, and one of the things that the Eurozone was criticised for was lack of labour mobility between countries.

    More of an issue in the post GFC/Eurozone crisis has been the inability of the German government to see that its austerity and current account surplus made it much harder for the periphery to rebalance. A modest consumer boom in Germany, with 3-5% wage inflation and rising imports, would have done wonders for the competitiveness of Spain and Italy, as well as encouraging Germans to recycle their Euros in beachfront property.
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    OmniumOmnium Posts: 9,796

    JackW said:

    Nate Silver of 538 looks at Trump's swing state death spiral :

    http://fivethirtyeight.com/features/trump-is-doubling-down-on-a-losing-strategy/

    Well, its gonna be a lot of fun as Trump tries to be more Trumptastic under the guidance of Steve Bannon. This is looking like either a landslide or the biggest recovery in American history.
    Betting against Trump has recently been a bad idea. He should be a million to one (in fact at least the world population to one- a random person would be better) to be US President. He is fantastically ill suited to the role. Worse still he's a bit thick. Nonetheless he has sailed his way almost to the White House itself. I think most would agree that this is evidence of a problem in the system rather than any problem in my assertions as to his unworthiness.

    Nonetheless he may prove to be the perfectly targeted 'wrong-arrow'



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    OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 32,029
    A very enthusiastic Leaver of my acquaintance told me (over lunch) that he was very disappointed with Mrs May. She hadn't got on with Leaving and he was starting to think that she never would.
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    Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 55,457

    John_M said:

    As I've said before, if 650k in two years isn't mass immigration, please tell me what number would qualify. We should note that immigration is primarily to England. From memory Scotland has ~173k and Wales ~85k.

    Nonetheless public perception is wrong in many respects. In particular:

    - People think there are zillions of asylum seekers coming into the UK. In fact there are very few (around 25,000 out of 600,000 immigrants).

    - People think it is easy for non-EEA citizens to come here, and are amazed when they are told just how draconian the rules are.

    - People don't think of students as immigrants, but they account for about a third of all immigrants; there is almost universal support in favour of continuing to take their fees!

    Basically the only ways of reducing net immigration significantly are either to reduce EU worker migration, or to encourage more people to emigrate (I suppose trashing the economy would do both..). That's basically why I think the Brexit settlement must exclude freedom of movement; it was the strongest argument for leaving the EU, and the most important one for many Leave voters.
    If students came here for 3-4 years, and then left again, applying for a new work visa if required once outside the UK, there wouldn't be a problem. But there is. Most students (and many are students in name only) turn out to be permanent economic migrants.

    The Government needs to tighten up on that, family reunions - particularly from the subcontinent, and put a similar cap on EU worker migration.

    I think it should be feasible to get net migration down to between 100-175k per year, depending upon the economic cycle.
  • Options
    SandpitSandpit Posts: 49,927
    edited August 2016

    Moses_ said:

    PlatoSaid said:

    Hell Yeah!


    1 United States 31 32 31 94

    2 Great Britain 20 21 13 54

    3 China 19 15 20 54

    4 Germany 13 8 9 30

    5 Russia 12 14 15 41

    6 Japan 10 5 18 33

    So good to see us doing so well at the Brexit Games!

    Equal on total medals with China!
    It's 21 21 13 now just looked
    Permission to swoon (again!)
    We're pulling away from China on silvers too. They need to get several golds ahead to take second.

    Heh.

    All we need now is for Britain's Captain's of Industry to stop being so bloody namby-pamby and take a leaf out of British Sport's playbook. Then file the UK under "Worldbeaters"...

    It amuses me greatly that China are so annoyed we are beating them in the medal table.
    Their old fashioned strategy of throwing huge numbers of young people at the various disciplines then training the best (with a few drugs added) has worked for them for decades, The Chinese people probably don't understand what we're doing differently to them to win all these medals, not only in the selection but in the modern and well developed training methods. They're turning up to this year's Games using last decade's methods.

    Unfortunately for us, they will work it out soon enough. Wait for them to start making huge offers to some of the GB backroom teams as a starting point.
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    British "Empire" Running away with Olympics.

    HM Queen is Beating everyone.

    US.
    31:Gold,
    32 Silver,
    31 Bronze

    HM Queens Realms.
    40 Gold,
    41 Silver.
    36 Bronze.

    (UK, Australia, NZ, Canada, Jamaica, Bahamas, Grenada)
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    JackWJackW Posts: 14,787
    rcs1000 said:

    JackW said:

    Nate Silver of 538 looks at Trump's swing state death spiral :

    http://fivethirtyeight.com/features/trump-is-doubling-down-on-a-losing-strategy/

    The most interesting part of that polling - to me - is that Gary Johnson has taken a meaningful chunk of the Republican vote share in Colorado, New Hampshire and Virginia. If this leads to Hillary wining those states then the Trump path to the Presidency is narrow indeed.
    Johnson's polling will narrow at election day looms but he's certainly going to trim more from Trump than Clinton. Presently Colorado, Virginia and New Hampshire are more "Likely Clinton" than TCTC. In a tighter race Johnson would figure but not presently.

    Trump's path runs through the rust belt and Florida, except that it doesn't as the race stands. Trump requires game changers. Still time but one heck of a stretch.
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    ThrakThrak Posts: 494

    JackW said:

    Nate Silver of 538 looks at Trump's swing state death spiral :

    http://fivethirtyeight.com/features/trump-is-doubling-down-on-a-losing-strategy/

    Well, its gonna be a lot of fun as Trump tries to be more Trumptastic under the guidance of Steve Bannon. This is looking like either a landslide* or the biggest recovery in American history.

    * edit: for HRC I mean.
    Well, now we will see what a political party would look like if run by, and on the lines of, internet trolls.
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    Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 55,457
    Sandpit said:

    Moses_ said:

    PlatoSaid said:

    Hell Yeah!


    1 United States 31 32 31 94

    2 Great Britain 20 21 13 54

    3 China 19 15 20 54

    4 Germany 13 8 9 30

    5 Russia 12 14 15 41

    6 Japan 10 5 18 33

    So good to see us doing so well at the Brexit Games!

    Equal on total medals with China!
    It's 21 21 13 now just looked
    Permission to swoon (again!)
    We're pulling away from China on silvers too. They need to get several golds ahead to take second.

    Heh.

    All we need now is for Britain's Captain's of Industry to stop being so bloody namby-pamby and take a leaf out of British Sport's playbook. Then file the UK under "Worldbeaters"...

    It amuses me greatly that China are so annoyed we are beating them in the medal table.
    Their old fashioned strategy of throwing huge numbers of young people at the various disciplines then training the best (with a few drugs added) has worked for them for decades, The Chinese people probably don't understand what we're doing differently to them to win all these medals, not only in the selection but in the modern and well developed training methods. They're turning up to this year's Games using last decade's methods.

    Unfortunately for us, they will work it out soon enough. Wait for them to start making huge offers to some of the GB backroom teams as a starting point.
    I don't think team GB do it for the money.
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    Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 55,457

    One aspect above all others persuaded me to vote LEAVE. That was the insulting and patronising way in which David Cameron tried to pretend he had achieved a great deal from other EU member states in his so-called re-negotiations, when in truth he achieved next to nothing.
    We knew this from the outset, based on his very modest demands and the way in which he was determined to conclude his discussions with undue haste, when by his own self-imposed timetable, he could readily have continued negotiating for a further 18 months. For whatever reason, he deliberately chose not to.

    What surprises me the most is how so many of those who voted to Remain refuse to believe that many who voted Leave made up their minds on the merits of the deal, and the EU's attitude to the UK wanting it, and instead insist they were always going to vote Leave.

    Obviously that's not true, as any reading of the opinion polling over the previous 18 months would show you.
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    Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 55,457
    rcs1000 said:

    perdix said:

    DavidL said:

    One aspect above all others persuaded me to vote LEAVE. That was the insulting and patronising way in which David Cameron tried to pretend he had achieved a great deal from other EU member states in his so-called re-negotiations, when in truth he achieved next to nothing.
    We knew this from the outset, based on his very modest demands and the way in which he was determined to conclude his discussions with undue haste, when by his own self-imposed timetable, he could readily have continued negotiating for a further 18 months. For whatever reason, he deliberately chose not to.

    This was certainly a factor in my decision to vote leave but my reasoning was somewhat different. What Cameron's negotiations showed me that real change was not possible within the EU, it is a bureaucratic mess which is frankly indifferent to what its citizens want and is incapable of addressing those concerns.

    If Cameron had shown that perception to be false and achieved real reform recognising the stresses freedom of movement were causing Britain I would probably have voted differently but his half hearted attempts convinced me that my assessment of the EU was shared by those on the inside. Leaving was the only sensible option.
    The real reason why change in the EU seemed impossible was that the majority of EU politicians have the objective of a United States of Europe and they don't want to jeopardise their gravy train. However, it is now becoming clearer to many of them that "one size fits all" for currency, labour movement and other institutions are at a minimum counter-productive or may lead to the eventual breakup of the Union.

    I think the currency union *needs* freedom of labour. If you go back to the papers at the start of the Euro in 1998/1999, there was a lot of talk about optimum currency areas, and one of the things that the Eurozone was criticised for was lack of labour mobility between countries.

    More of an issue in the post GFC/Eurozone crisis has been the inability of the German government to see that its austerity and current account surplus made it much harder for the periphery to rebalance. A modest consumer boom in Germany, with 3-5% wage inflation and rising imports, would have done wonders for the competitiveness of Spain and Italy, as well as encouraging Germans to recycle their Euros in beachfront property.
    And, as members of the EU and subject to free movement, we are the pressure whistle for the eurozone that never stops singing.
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    BigRichBigRich Posts: 3,489
    JackW said:

    rcs1000 said:

    JackW said:

    Nate Silver of 538 looks at Trump's swing state death spiral :

    http://fivethirtyeight.com/features/trump-is-doubling-down-on-a-losing-strategy/

    The most interesting part of that polling - to me - is that Gary Johnson has taken a meaningful chunk of the Republican vote share in Colorado, New Hampshire and Virginia. If this leads to Hillary wining those states then the Trump path to the Presidency is narrow indeed.
    Johnson's polling will narrow at election day looms but he's certainly going to trim more from Trump than Clinton. Presently Colorado, Virginia and New Hampshire are more "Likely Clinton" than TCTC. In a tighter race Johnson would figure but not presently.

    Trump's path runs through the rust belt and Florida, except that it doesn't as the race stands. Trump requires game changers. Still time but one heck of a stretch.
    Libertarian party Candidate Gary Johnsons Poling may narrow towards election day, unless he gets in the debates, which is still an open question, and will not be answered for another 4 weeks. if he does get in the debates, his poling will rise, by how much will depend on how well he does, but the publicity on its own will boost him.

    Whether he is tacking more from trump or Clinton, is a much harder question, he is tacking a lot of don't know/would not normally vote, and he is tacking at least some from each party.

    I think a large chunk of his support will be people that voted for Romney, when he faced Obama in 2012, but this time if they where forced, would probably reluctantly go for Clinton, in repulsion of Trump.
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    MikeKMikeK Posts: 9,053
    Hurrah!!! August is more than half way over, the Olympics will be ending in a few days and the normal hurly-burly will start again after the August bank holiday. The only problem on the horizon is that our politicians won't get over their holiday mood until the Conference Season is well and truly over. Oh well, it could be worse, we could have a head of state like Hollande. :)
This discussion has been closed.