Mr. Betting, Blair's so toxic it may have made the British like the EU even less.
Mr. Urquhart, I often mute commentators. Cracknell's constantly wrong predictions halfway through rowing events were not impressive.
Miss Plato, that's just daft. But then, so's Eastenders. Still, it's nice that there's a TV programme to watch that can depress the irritatingly chirpy back to normality.
FPT: Mr. F, never read anything by Plato (the elder chap, not our own Miss Plato). I think his policy of executing atheists is not an endearing one.
Plato's Republic would not have been a very nice place to live in. It was like a more hardline version of Sparta.
Indeed - and Sparta wasn't anyone's idea of a picnic. I was always very curious about a well known 70s brand of chocolate box named after them. They were horrible - all hard centres, but stuck around for yrs. The sort of gift to make your heart sink.
I enjoy reading about Sparta, but very much doubt that I would have enjoyed living there. The upbringing of Spartan youths sounds very much like going to Shrewsbury School in the 1970's (lots of flogging, compulsory homosexuality, lots of sports, an absence of intellectual pursuits).
When I look back on it, there were so many things wrong with my time at boarding school: the ex-RAF WWII headmaster using the cane right up until the day it was banned in private schools, in 1990, the early morning cold showers, dormitory wide group punishments for certain misdemeanours, referring to each other by surname only (we were nine years old), the insufficient and bad food, the placing of sporting process above academic excellence, the belief that girls were a malign influence, encouraging the settling of disputes by confrontation rather than diffusing situations and reason, and the overarching belief that all of the above was 'character building'.
I'm glad those days are gone.
My friend who was at Shrewsbury in the 1970s makes it sound like Belsen.
When you're nine years old and comparing it to home with mum & dad, it may as well be for all you know.
Thankfully, I managed to side-step the homosexuality (such as it was - I didn't encounter much, more totally macho and unrealistic ideas about girls, a bit like the inbetweeners, but even more naive, and actually not a whole world away from the deeply flawed perceptions of young male economic migrants who have moved here from deeply conservative countries - except with English shyness and reserve, and absolutely no assault or funny business. Most common reaction to a girl was staring, crippling shyness, or hiding)
FPT: Mr. F, never read anything by Plato (the elder chap, not our own Miss Plato). I think his policy of executing atheists is not an endearing one.
Plato's Republic would not have been a very nice place to live in. It was like a more hardline version of Sparta.
Indeed - and Sparta wasn't anyone's idea of a picnic. I was always very curious about a well known 70s brand of chocolate box named after them. They were horrible - all hard centres, but stuck around for yrs. The sort of gift to make your heart sink.
I enjoy reading about Sparta, but very much doubt that I would have enjoyed living there. The upbringing of Spartan youths sounds very much like going to Shrewsbury School in the 1970's (lots of flogging, compulsory homosexuality, lots of sports, an absence of intellectual pursuits).
Great website of old choc boxes. I vaguely remember the Bridge mints.
I kept all those ones with tassles and drawers. Wonderful packaging. I'd forgotten all about them.
I may taken a wrong mental turn here - linking Plato with her tassels and drawers.....
I don't think Theresa May is the kind of person who is likely to succumb to hubris, nor can she and her ministers be in any doubt as to the massive challenges they face. Admittedly Labour seem almost completely irrelevant to the political debate at the moment, but that's a different point.
She - personally - may not be. But the three Brexit Ministers are, I think, inclined to this. And the minute they start making decisions and the rest of the EU doesn't play ball then what? Without an opposition to keep the Tories on their toes there is a risk that they will assume that they can get away with pretty much anything and that, when push comes to shove, the voters will look at Labour and go "no, thank you".
More likely than not, I grant you. But were I PM I wouldn't plan my strategy on that basis.
Politicians of all parties have underestimated the public for too long now. The referendum should have woken them up. Lots of people - and not just the Northern WWC - are dissatisfied with what has been a pretty piss poor political class for some time now and with an economy which looks a bit too much like Richistan in the South East and Mostly-Standing-Still everywhere else. I'm not at all sure the political parties have really got this.
That is a very big post, Mrs. Free, (glad to see you fully recovered from your night on the tiles, by the way), with some whacking big assumptions.
The three "Brexit ministers" will not, I think, be taking big decisions. They will be bringing option papers to cabinet. TM, as first among equals, will be endorsing any decisions subsequently made. I think, I hope, I pray, that TM will restore cabinet government to the UK and the powers of individual ministers (including the PM) to go off on their own will, for the first time since at least 1997, be eliminated, or at any rate very, much reduced.
Your third paragraph I agree with (which is, I am sure, a relief to you). The problem of the disengagement of many, many people (and not just the WWC in the North) from the political process is very real. There is going to be a need to rebalance, and that will hit the asset-holders the hardest (which is why Osborne probably shied away from actually doing it), but some party is going to have to sooner or later.
So much for the idea of brotherly love and crossing the finishing line arm-in-arm - to register identical times and both get gold medals.....!
I wonder how Iron Man competitors would do against this field?
These days, not very well...its a bit like asking how a marathon runner would do against a 1500m runner.
To give you an idea of how fast Brownlee's are, they will do 10km in ~30mins, after all the swimming and bike riding first. WR 10km on the track is only 26 mins.
LOL. Another great story about how our teams are bloody brilliant at preparing stuff. That they managed to book the only other 50m swimming pool in Brazil for their final training was another. Go Team GB!
Incidentally, our local Conservative branch is having a policy discussion next week on Refugees, Asylum and Immigration. I've been given the hot potato of preparing the briefing paper and chairing the discussion. I hope to get out alive, but if I suddenly stop posting you'll know why!
A fascinating thread from November last year.
And so many banned subsequently!
The policy discussion was rather good and quite nuanced. We certainly covered some of the points which were important in the referendum. From my summary of the evening (which I think was sent on to ministers):
There was considerable discussion about the reliability of migration statistics and the difficulty of estimating illegal immigration. ... On EU/EEA migration, the group very much supported the government’s efforts to reform the benefits system so as to reduce the ‘pull’ factor encouraging large numbers of EU citizens to come here. In particular, the payment of Housing Benefit, and of Child Benefit /Child Tax Credits in respect of children not living in the UK, were of particular concern.
At the same time, the group felt that, in numeric terms, reform of the benefits system would have only a limited effect on the scale of EU immigration, given the appeal of the UK as a destination because of its buoyant jobs market, and the fact that English is such a universal language. The recent announcement of the increased ‘living wage’ would tend to make the UK more attractive. ... As regards the forthcoming EU referendum, the group agreed that immigration would be a major factor in motivating people to vote to leave the EU. However, as the government has argued, the so-called ‘Norway’ option of staying in the EEA would not offer any significant advantage as regards immigration. ... Overall, the group felt that the biggest concern was a sense that migration had got out of control.
LOL. Another great story about how our teams are bloody brilliant at preparing stuff. That they managed to book the only other 50m swimming pool in Brazil for their final training was another. Go Team GB!
They said that they had somebody wipe down everything, door handles, surfaces etc, with anti-bacterial products, food was carefully prepared by one dedicated indivudal, etc all to try to ensure they didn't pick up any illness.
They said the girls though weren't taking the same approach. The leading British women was with them, but another is coming out late from Yorkshire and the 3rd from Portugal.
Very insightful article, Cyclefree. I agree with every criticism you make about the Remain campaign. As a historical analysis it is very interesting. However, the corollaries you note for Leave are far more important, simply because Leave won. And I have to say no-one, neither the Leave campaign, nor the new government that will implement Brexit, has addressed them. Not one tiny little bit.
The problem is that it may not just be a communication issue - ie that the answers are there but they haven't communicated those answers in a way that the public can understand. It may well be that there are no satsifactory answers and Brexit was committed to on a set of contradictory and in some cases false assumptions.
I believe this to be the case. So where do we go from here? You can't just say, it's a huge mess, let's forget it. On the other hand it doesn't help to pretend it isn't a mess at all and let's not talk about it.
In the circumstances the least bad solution will be a fudge. I don't mean carrying on as now and sticking a Brexit label on it. I mean there has to be something that looks like a proper solution and which involves an apparent separation, while hanging onto as much as possible of the status quo. A fudge, which will only work if it doesn't look like one.
Brexit will be one massive spin fest. That isn't the honesty you are looking for.
Are they going to hold SPOTY over two nights this year? Or maybe series?
Make it like one of those reality shows, put it on every Saturday night between September and Christmas, mainly so we can all watch endless replays of the past fortnight!
I don't think Theresa May is the kind of person who is likely to succumb to hubris, nor can she and her ministers be in any doubt as to the massive challenges they face. Admittedly Labour seem almost completely irrelevant to the political debate at the moment, but that's a different point.
She - personally - may not be. But the three Brexit Ministers are, I think, inclined to this. And the minute they start making decisions and the rest of the EU doesn't play ball then what? Without an opposition to keep the Tories on their toes there is a risk that they will assume that they can get away with pretty much anything and that, when push comes to shove, the voters will look at Labour and go "no, thank you".
More likely than not, I grant you. But were I PM I wouldn't plan my strategy on that basis.
Politicians of all parties have underestimated the public for too long now. The referendum should have woken them up. Lots of people - and not just the Northern WWC - are dissatisfied with what has been a pretty piss poor political class for some time now and with an economy which looks a bit too much like Richistan in the South East and Mostly-Standing-Still everywhere else. I'm not at all sure the political parties have really got this.
That is a very big post, Mrs. Free, (glad to see you fully recovered from your night on the tiles, by the way), with some whacking big assumptions.
The three "Brexit ministers" will not, I think, be taking big decisions. They will be bringing option papers to cabinet. TM, as first among equals, will be endorsing any decisions subsequently made. I think, I hope, I pray, that TM will restore cabinet government to the UK and the powers of individual ministers (including the PM) to go off on their own will, for the first time since at least 1997, be eliminated, or at any rate very, much reduced.
Your third paragraph I agree with (which is, I am sure, a relief to you). The problem of the disengagement of many, many people (and not just the WWC in the North) from the political process is very real. There is going to be a need to rebalance, and that will hit the asset-holders the hardest (which is why Osborne probably shied away from actually doing it), but some party is going to have to sooner or later.
I should have been clearer: when Mrs May and the government start making decisions, they will likely become less popular.
At any event I think politicians should stop taking the voters for granted. We can see the harm it has done to Labour. And what that is doing to our system of Parliamentary democracy. There needs to be a reset.
LOL. Another great story about how our teams are bloody brilliant at preparing stuff. That they managed to book the only other 50m swimming pool in Brazil for their final training was another. Go Team GB!
They said that they had somebody wipe down everything, door handles, surfaces etc, with anti-bacterial products, food was carefully prepared by one dedicated indivudal, etc all to try to ensure they didn't pick up any illness.
They said the girls though weren't taking the same approach. The leading British women was with them, but another is coming out late from Yorkshire and the 3rd from Portugal.
Very good. It only used to be the Americans that did stuff like that, shows how far we've come.
Most of the US team are I think flying in at the last minute and bringing all their food with them, to avoid any chance of getting ill - except for the basketball allstars of course, who chartered a bloody big boat for a fortnight's partying!
Incidentally, our local Conservative branch is having a policy discussion next week on Refugees, Asylum and Immigration. I've been given the hot potato of preparing the briefing paper and chairing the discussion. I hope to get out alive, but if I suddenly stop posting you'll know why!
A fascinating thread from November last year.
And so many banned subsequently!
The policy discussion was rather good and quite nuanced. We certainly covered some of the points which were important in the referendum. From my summary of the evening (which I think was sent on to ministers):
There was considerable discussion about the reliability of migration statistics and the difficulty of estimating illegal immigration. ... On EU/EEA migration, the group very much supported the government’s efforts to reform the benefits system so as to reduce the ‘pull’ factor encouraging large numbers of EU citizens to come here. In particular, the payment of Housing Benefit, and of Child Benefit /Child Tax Credits in respect of children not living in the UK, were of particular concern.
At the same time, the group felt that, in numeric terms, reform of the benefits system would have only a limited effect on the scale of EU immigration, given the appeal of the UK as a destination because of its buoyant jobs market, and the fact that English is such a universal language. The recent announcement of the increased ‘living wage’ would tend to make the UK more attractive. ... As regards the forthcoming EU referendum, the group agreed that immigration would be a major factor in motivating people to vote to leave the EU. However, as the government has argued, the so-called ‘Norway’ option of staying in the EEA would not offer any significant advantage as regards immigration. ... Overall, the group felt that the biggest concern was a sense that migration had got out of control.
The next batch of immigration figures are due next Thursday. Let's see if that sense was correct.
Are they going to hold SPOTY over two nights this year? Or maybe series?
Make it like one of those reality shows, put it on every Saturday night between September and Christmas, mainly so we can all watch endless replays of the past fortnight!
Incidentally, our local Conservative branch is having a policy discussion next week on Refugees, Asylum and Immigration. I've been given the hot potato of preparing the briefing paper and chairing the discussion. I hope to get out alive, but if I suddenly stop posting you'll know why!
A fascinating thread from November last year.
And so many banned subsequently!
The policy discussion was rather good and quite nuanced. We certainly covered some of the points which were important in the referendum. From my summary of the evening (which I think was sent on to ministers):
There was considerable discussion about the reliability of migration statistics and the difficulty of estimating illegal immigration. ... On EU/EEA migration, the group very much supported the government’s efforts to reform the benefits system so as to reduce the ‘pull’ factor encouraging large numbers of EU citizens to come here. In particular, the payment of Housing Benefit, and of Child Benefit /Child Tax Credits in respect of children not living in the UK, were of particular concern.
At the same time, the group felt that, in numeric terms, reform of the benefits system would have only a limited effect on the scale of EU immigration, given the appeal of the UK as a destination because of its buoyant jobs market, and the fact that English is such a universal language. The recent announcement of the increased ‘living wage’ would tend to make the UK more attractive. ... As regards the forthcoming EU referendum, the group agreed that immigration would be a major factor in motivating people to vote to leave the EU. However, as the government has argued, the so-called ‘Norway’ option of staying in the EEA would not offer any significant advantage as regards immigration. ... Overall, the group felt that the biggest concern was a sense that migration had got out of control.
The next batch of immigration figures are due next Thursday. Let's see if that sense was correct.
The perception was that it had. Regardless of what the reality is the perception won it for Leave..
I don't think Theresa May is the kind of person who is likely to succumb to hubris, nor can she and her ministers be in any doubt as to the massive challenges they face. Admittedly Labour seem almost completely irrelevant to the political debate at the moment, but that's a different point.
She - personally - may not be. But the three Brexit Ministers are, I think, inclined to this. And the minute they start making decisions and the rest of the EU doesn't play ball then what? Without an opposition to keep the Tories on their toes there is a risk that they will assume that they can get away with pretty much anything and that, when push comes to shove, the voters will look at Labour and go "no, thank you".
More likely than not, I grant you. But were I PM I wouldn't plan my strategy on that basis.
Politicians of all parties have underestimated the public for too long now. The referendum should have woken them up. Lots of people - and not just the Northern WWC - are dissatisfied with what has been a pretty piss poor political class for some time now and with an economy which looks a bit too much like Richistan in the South East and Mostly-Standing-Still everywhere else. I'm not at all sure the political parties have really got this.
It's not even that good. Most areas have gone backwards relative to Londonistan, including the South East.
I suspect John Mcdonnell wants us to understand that GVA went backwards in the regions, when it actually grew less fast than London. But, heck, that's statistics.
Incidentally, our local Conservative branch is having a policy discussion next week on Refugees, Asylum and Immigration. I've been given the hot potato of preparing the briefing paper and chairing the discussion. I hope to get out alive, but if I suddenly stop posting you'll know why!
A fascinating thread from November last year.
And so many banned subsequently!
The policy discussion was rather good and quite nuanced. We certainly covered some of the points which were important in the referendum. From my summary of the evening (which I think was sent on to ministers):
There was considerable discussion about the reliability of migration statistics and the difficulty of estimating illegal immigration. ... On EU/EEA migration, the group very much supported the government’s efforts to reform the benefits system so as to reduce the ‘pull’ factor encouraging large numbers of EU citizens to come here. In particular, the payment of Housing Benefit, and of Child Benefit /Child Tax Credits in respect of children not living in the UK, were of particular concern.
At the same time, the group felt that, in numeric terms, reform of the benefits system would have only a limited effect on the scale of EU immigration, given the appeal of the UK as a destination because of its buoyant jobs market, and the fact that English is such a universal language. The recent announcement of the increased ‘living wage’ would tend to make the UK more attractive. ... As regards the forthcoming EU referendum, the group agreed that immigration would be a major factor in motivating people to vote to leave the EU. However, as the government has argued, the so-called ‘Norway’ option of staying in the EEA would not offer any significant advantage as regards immigration. ... Overall, the group felt that the biggest concern was a sense that migration had got out of control.
The next batch of immigration figures are due next Thursday. Let's see if that sense was correct.
The perception was that it had. Regardless of what the reality is the perception won it for Leave..
As I've said before, if 650k in two years isn't mass immigration, please tell me what number would qualify. We should note that immigration is primarily to England. From memory Scotland has ~173k and Wales ~85k.
Are they going to hold SPOTY over two nights this year? Or maybe series?
Make it like one of those reality shows, put it on every Saturday night between September and Christmas, mainly so we can all watch endless replays of the past fortnight!
We've still got the Paralympics to come.
Indeed. And Team GB have put just as much effort into those games too.
This seems even more amazing than London, maybe because the expectations four years ago were so high, whereas this is more unexpected to the general public.
I know it's crap gambling odds, but we should all really buy a few lottery tickets if this is the result of it!
Kyrgyzstan weightlifter Izzat Artykov has become the first Rio medallist to test positive for a banned substance and has been stripped of his bronze.
That's actually a bloody good effort - looks like the word is finally getting round to the athletes that they have to do it clean.
The statistic about the 100m times the other day was shocking, but then again most of us can remember back to the bad old days of Ben Johnson and Flo-Jo in 1988. Copious amounts of drugs and a dodgy and wind meter mean the women's 100m record could stand for a century.
What's happening in the badminton? We've won a medal or two?!
Bronze in the men's doubles.
Have to be honest - badminton can't get me the teeniest bit engaged. It's so SLOW - like action replay golf. But a medal is a medal and well done to the chappies!
Firstly Trump has strong ties to the state and the expectation was that he'd perform somewhat better here than in other swing states, as is apparent. Secondly polls in Nevada in the past two cycles have underestimate the Dem figure by about 3 points.
What's happening in the badminton? We've won a medal or two?!
Bronze in the men's doubles.
Have to be honest - badminton can't get me the teeniest bit engaged. It's so SLOW - like action replay golf. But a medal is a medal and well done to the chappies!
Can we agree it's better than horse dancing? But yes, they all count!
What's happening in the badminton? We've won a medal or two?!
Bronze in the men's doubles.
Have to be honest - badminton can't get me the teeniest bit engaged. It's so SLOW - like action replay golf. But a medal is a medal and well done to the chappies!
I used to play badminton at primary school so I have something of a soft spot for it however I skipped that match for the men's triathlon.
What's happening in the badminton? We've won a medal or two?!
Bronze in the men's doubles.
Have to be honest - badminton can't get me the teeniest bit engaged. It's so SLOW - like action replay golf. But a medal is a medal and well done to the chappies!
Can we agree it's better than horse dancing? But yes, they all count!
Pah! Dressage is great if you watch their legs/feet/bum. All the little mistakes are plain - Badminton is just a yawnfest
What an awesome setting for the Triathlon - Brighton beach is no match for the Copacabana.
Gold and Silver for the Brownlee Brothers - Awesome.
Brighton Beach benefits from an excellent branch of WHSmith nearby that I suspect the Copacabana cannot match. Swings and roundabouts.
Good point, well made Sir – and who wants golden sand when you can have pebbles…
Interesting Factiod – With Brownlee’s Gold, that's 13th 0f 19 Team GB athletes to retain their London titles. – And two more events yet to come in Taekwondo and Boxing
''The statistic about the 100m times the other day was shocking, but then again most of us can remember back to the days of Ben Johnson and Flo-Jo in 1988. ''
Talking of the 100, am I alone in thinking the Beeb have gone overboard a bit on Bolt? Its become a North Korea type dictator cult with them. He's become the Dear Sprinter.
I mean the guy's a complete phenomenon, don't get me wrong. But at times its embarrassing.
As I've said before, if 650k in two years isn't mass immigration, please tell me what number would qualify. We should note that immigration is primarily to England. From memory Scotland has ~173k and Wales ~85k.
Nonetheless public perception is wrong in many respects. In particular:
- People think there are zillions of asylum seekers coming into the UK. In fact there are very few (around 25,000 out of 600,000 immigrants).
- People think it is easy for non-EEA citizens to come here, and are amazed when they are told just how draconian the rules are.
- People don't think of students as immigrants, but they account for about a third of all immigrants; there is almost universal support in favour of continuing to take their fees!
Basically the only ways of reducing net immigration significantly are either to reduce EU worker migration, or to encourage more people to emigrate (I suppose trashing the economy would do both..). That's basically why I think the Brexit settlement must exclude freedom of movement; it was the strongest argument for leaving the EU, and the most important one for many Leave voters.
What's happening in the badminton? We've won a medal or two?!
Bronze in the men's doubles.
Have to be honest - badminton can't get me the teeniest bit engaged. It's so SLOW - like action replay golf. But a medal is a medal and well done to the chappies!
I used to play badminton at primary school so I have something of a soft spot for it however I skipped that match for the men's triathlon.
My big brother played it and was pretty good, I'd rather watch Squash - at least it's brutally fast.
What an awesome setting for the Triathlon - Brighton beach is no match for the Copacabana.
Gold and Silver for the Brownlee Brothers - Awesome.
Brighton Beach benefits from an excellent branch of WHSmith nearby that I suspect the Copacabana cannot match. Swings and roundabouts.
Good point, well made Sir – and who wants golden sand when you can have pebbles…
Interesting Factiod – With Brownlee’s Gold, that's 13th 0f 19 Team GB athletes to retain their London titles. – And two more events yet to come in Taekwondo and Boxing
That's hugely impressive - and shows the spread of sports we excel in. No silos in swimming et al like a nation or two...
What's happening in the badminton? We've won a medal or two?!
Bronze in the men's doubles.
Have to be honest - badminton can't get me the teeniest bit engaged. It's so SLOW - like action replay golf. But a medal is a medal and well done to the chappies!
I used to play badminton at primary school so I have something of a soft spot for it however I skipped that match for the men's triathlon.
My big brother played it and was pretty good, I'd rather watch Squash - at least it's brutally fast.
What's happening in the badminton? We've won a medal or two?!
Bronze in the men's doubles.
Have to be honest - badminton can't get me the teeniest bit engaged. It's so SLOW - like action replay golf. But a medal is a medal and well done to the chappies!
Forget badminton; the Olympics should have Fives. And extra kudos if they replicate conditions at my school - the athletes who turn up last get the worn-out gloves and the balls that have aged into concrete.
''The statistic about the 100m times the other day was shocking, but then again most of us can remember back to the days of Ben Johnson and Flo-Jo in 1988. ''
Talking of the 100, am I alone in thinking the Beeb have gone overboard a bit on Bolt? Its become a North Korea type dictator cult with them. He's become the Dear Sprinter.
I mean the guy's a complete phenomenon, don't get me wrong. But at times its embarrassing.
Frankly, I've no idea why 100m gets so much attention. I really couldn't care less. I don't find it more impressive than dozens of others.
''Nonetheless public perception is wrong in many respects. In particular:''
Nope.
People aren't even that worried about numbers. They are worried about QUALITY. Politicians assumed voters would accept the murderer, rapist or terrorist along with the plumber, doctor or programmer. They assumed we would accept the rough with the smooth, because the overall effect is beneficial.
In June the electorate said that is not good enough. They want the rough filtered out. From now on, only the 'smooth' will do.
What's happening in the badminton? We've won a medal or two?!
Bronze in the men's doubles.
Have to be honest - badminton can't get me the teeniest bit engaged. It's so SLOW - like action replay golf. But a medal is a medal and well done to the chappies!
Can we agree it's better than horse dancing? But yes, they all count!
Pah! Dressage is great if you watch their legs/feet/bum. All the little mistakes are plain - Badminton is just a yawnfest
''Nonetheless public perception is wrong in many respects. In particular:''
Nope.
People aren't even that worried about numbers. They are worried about QUALITY. Politicians assumed voters would accept the murderer, rapist or terrorist along with the plumber, doctor or programmer. They assumed we would accept the rough with the smooth, because the overall effect is beneficial.
In June the electorate said that is not good enough. They want the rough filtered out. From now on, only the 'smooth' will do.
What's happening in the badminton? We've won a medal or two?!
Bronze in the men's doubles.
Have to be honest - badminton can't get me the teeniest bit engaged. It's so SLOW - like action replay golf. But a medal is a medal and well done to the chappies!
Forget badminton; the Olympics should have Fives. And extra kudos if they replicate conditions at my school - the athletes who turn up last get the worn-out gloves and the balls that have aged into concrete.
I think it might freak people out (Eton fives that is; Rugby fives is obvs v simple to follow..)
''Nonetheless public perception is wrong in many respects. In particular:''
Nope.
People aren't even that worried about numbers. They are worried about QUALITY. Politicians assumed voters would accept the murderer, rapist or terrorist along with the plumber, doctor or programmer. They assumed we would accept the rough with the smooth, because the overall effect is beneficial.
In June the electorate said that is not good enough. They want the rough filtered out. From now on, only the 'smooth' will do.
Impossible task. A Canadian banker can be a murderer.
What's happening in the badminton? We've won a medal or two?!
Bronze in the men's doubles.
Have to be honest - badminton can't get me the teeniest bit engaged. It's so SLOW - like action replay golf. But a medal is a medal and well done to the chappies!
Can we agree it's better than horse dancing? But yes, they all count!
Pah! Dressage is great if you watch their legs/feet/bum. All the little mistakes are plain - Badminton is just a yawnfest
Nah, it's the most boring 'sport' there!
The Badminton boys deserve a Bronze just for their tears/shock They're ranked 20thish?!
''Nonetheless public perception is wrong in many respects. In particular:''
Nope.
People aren't even that worried about numbers. They are worried about QUALITY. Politicians assumed voters would accept the murderer, rapist or terrorist along with the plumber, doctor or programmer. They assumed we would accept the rough with the smooth, because the overall effect is beneficial.
In June the electorate said that is not good enough. They want the rough filtered out. From now on, only the 'smooth' will do.
A fine illustration of my point.
Post A8 and A2 accessions FoM as originally constituted became obsolete.
However, I'm entirely sympathetic to the European view that the Conservative party has committed an act of pan-European economic vandalism simply because it was unable to stiffen its sinews and reform the UK health and welfare systems.
What's happening in the badminton? We've won a medal or two?!
Bronze in the men's doubles.
Have to be honest - badminton can't get me the teeniest bit engaged. It's so SLOW - like action replay golf. But a medal is a medal and well done to the chappies!
Forget badminton; the Olympics should have Fives. And extra kudos if they replicate conditions at my school - the athletes who turn up last get the worn-out gloves and the balls that have aged into concrete.
I think it might freak people out (Eton fives that is; Rugby fives is obvs v simple to follow..)
There's only one Fives, and that's Rugby fives. None of this posho Eton and Winchester rubbish.
On topic, an interesting contribution for which, as always, many thanks. I'm not sure I wholly agree with the analysis of the EU Referendum.
For me, REMAIN's two mistakes were:
1) Failing completely to articulate a positive case for the EU or a positive case for remaining in the EU with the opt-outs and renegotiation.
2) Treating the whole argument in terms of numbers and economics. The British population were in effect reduced to the status of subservient economic drones whose sole purpose was to ensure we achieved positive GDP growth every quarter. "Don't Think. Consume and Spend" as it were.
I've probably drifted to the "harder" end of the LEAVE spectrum - I see the failures of the immigration system up close and personal every day and I blame the Single Market for much of it. I realise a lot of people want and need the Single Market but I believe it has consequences far beyond the economic which make it profoundly unsatisfactory.
As to the future, given we are already seeing people on here daily seeing the US election through the prism of the EU Referendum (there are millions of Trump supporters out there apparently who will come out on Polling Day apparently - yes, I know.)
What an awesome setting for the Triathlon - Brighton beach is no match for the Copacabana.
Gold and Silver for the Brownlee Brothers - Awesome.
Brighton Beach benefits from an excellent branch of WHSmith nearby that I suspect the Copacabana cannot match. Swings and roundabouts.
Good point, well made Sir – and who wants golden sand when you can have pebbles…
Interesting Factiod – With Brownlee’s Gold, that's 13th 0f 19 Team GB athletes to retain their London titles. – And two more events yet to come in Taekwondo and Boxing
That's hugely impressive - and shows the spread of sports we excel in. No silos in swimming et al like a nation or two...
''The statistic about the 100m times the other day was shocking, but then again most of us can remember back to the days of Ben Johnson and Flo-Jo in 1988. ''
Talking of the 100, am I alone in thinking the Beeb have gone overboard a bit on Bolt? Its become a North Korea type dictator cult with them. He's become the Dear Sprinter.
I mean the guy's a complete phenomenon, don't get me wrong. But at times its embarrassing.
I've been watching the international coverage rather than the Beeb, but the guy is a phenomenon completely unbeaten in eight years and competing in his last Games. He's the only athlete to have got the stadium close to full and the crowd close to excited.
The media can go a bit overboard on coverage of individuals though, I felt a little sorry for Jess Emmis in London for the same reason but luckily she lived up to the massive expectations.
Who's staying up to watch Bolt's attempt on the 200m world record tonight? 02:30 UK time.
Comments
Mr. Urquhart, I often mute commentators. Cracknell's constantly wrong predictions halfway through rowing events were not impressive.
Miss Plato, that's just daft. But then, so's Eastenders. Still, it's nice that there's a TV programme to watch that can depress the irritatingly chirpy back to normality.
Thankfully, I managed to side-step the homosexuality (such as it was - I didn't encounter much, more totally macho and unrealistic ideas about girls, a bit like the inbetweeners, but even more naive, and actually not a whole world away from the deeply flawed perceptions of young male economic migrants who have moved here from deeply conservative countries - except with English shyness and reserve, and absolutely no assault or funny business. Most common reaction to a girl was staring, crippling shyness, or hiding)
http://cache1.asset-cache.net/gc/51181978-athens-greece-ilias-iliadis-of-greece-stands-gettyimages.jpg?v=1&c=IWSAsset&k=2&d=GnU2e2DYlZfHf4ZNO/IgTMK5VNmwjutD50/DKsS1X7bt+f+3KY6+QOgHX32/J8mS
The three "Brexit ministers" will not, I think, be taking big decisions. They will be bringing option papers to cabinet. TM, as first among equals, will be endorsing any decisions subsequently made. I think, I hope, I pray, that TM will restore cabinet government to the UK and the powers of individual ministers (including the PM) to go off on their own will, for the first time since at least 1997, be eliminated, or at any rate very, much reduced.
Your third paragraph I agree with (which is, I am sure, a relief to you). The problem of the disengagement of many, many people (and not just the WWC in the North) from the political process is very real. There is going to be a need to rebalance, and that will hit the asset-holders the hardest (which is why Osborne probably shied away from actually doing it), but some party is going to have to sooner or later.
To give you an idea of how fast Brownlee's are, they will do 10km in ~30mins, after all the swimming and bike riding first. WR 10km on the track is only 26 mins.
Fast forward 10 years. Elder brother who twice beat younger brother to olympic gold glory disappears mysteriously. Plot of SeanT thriller.
Two more medals about to be added to the GB total courtesy of the Brownlee brothers, and they're going to be gold and silver!
Yorkshire!
GB's Ellis and Langridge beat China to win badminton medal
Beating the Asians at long handled wiff waff doesn't happen that often.
https://twitter.com/TSEofPB/status/766301786500202496
There was considerable discussion about the reliability of migration statistics and the difficulty of estimating illegal immigration.
...
On EU/EEA migration, the group very much supported the government’s efforts to reform the benefits system so as to reduce the ‘pull’ factor encouraging large numbers of EU citizens to come here. In particular, the payment of Housing Benefit, and of Child Benefit /Child Tax Credits in respect of children not living in the UK, were of particular concern.
At the same time, the group felt that, in numeric terms, reform of the benefits system would have only a limited effect on the scale of EU immigration, given the appeal of the UK as a destination because of its buoyant jobs market, and the fact that English is such a universal language. The recent announcement of the increased ‘living wage’ would tend to make the UK more attractive.
...
As regards the forthcoming EU referendum, the group agreed that immigration would be a major factor in motivating people to vote to leave the EU. However, as the government has argued, the so-called ‘Norway’ option of staying in the EEA would not offer any significant advantage as regards immigration.
...
Overall, the group felt that the biggest concern was a sense that migration had got out of control.
They said the girls though weren't taking the same approach. The leading British women was with them, but another is coming out late from Yorkshire and the 3rd from Portugal.
The problem is that it may not just be a communication issue - ie that the answers are there but they haven't communicated those answers in a way that the public can understand. It may well be that there are no satsifactory answers and Brexit was committed to on a set of contradictory and in some cases false assumptions.
I believe this to be the case. So where do we go from here? You can't just say, it's a huge mess, let's forget it. On the other hand it doesn't help to pretend it isn't a mess at all and let's not talk about it.
In the circumstances the least bad solution will be a fudge. I don't mean carrying on as now and sticking a Brexit label on it. I mean there has to be something that looks like a proper solution and which involves an apparent separation, while hanging onto as much as possible of the status quo. A fudge, which will only work if it doesn't look like one.
Brexit will be one massive spin fest. That isn't the honesty you are looking for.
Triathlon Triumph - Alistair Brownlee 1st, Jonathan Brownlee 2nd in the Mens Triathlon @ 5/1 (Win)
At any event I think politicians should stop taking the voters for granted. We can see the harm it has done to Labour. And what that is doing to our system of Parliamentary democracy. There needs to be a reset.
Most of the US team are I think flying in at the last minute and bringing all their food with them, to avoid any chance of getting ill - except for the basketball allstars of course, who chartered a bloody big boat for a fortnight's partying!
Clinton 44 .. Trump 42
http://www.suffolk.edu/news/67217.php#.V7XdBk0rKgA
Gold and Silver for the Brownlee Brothers - Awesome.
1 United States 31 32 31 94
2 Great Britain 20 21 13 54
3 China 19 15 20 54
4 Germany 13 8 9 30
5 Russia 12 14 15 41
6 Japan 10 5 18 33
Not bad for Trump
To wind up your Australian friends, simply suggest that for the next 'ashes match' for olympic medals v GB, they can have New Zealand.
At least that would make a sort of contest of it (well, for a while).
This seems even more amazing than London, maybe because the expectations four years ago were so high, whereas this is more unexpected to the general public.
I know it's crap gambling odds, but we should all really buy a few lottery tickets if this is the result of it!
BBC Sport
The bronze-winning #badminton boys are all-but speechless! #Rio2016 https://t.co/oHm3jzfMAo
The statistic about the 100m times the other day was shocking, but then again most of us can remember back to the bad old days of Ben Johnson and Flo-Jo in 1988. Copious amounts of drugs and a dodgy and wind meter mean the women's 100m record could stand for a century.
Equal on total medals with China!
Firstly Trump has strong ties to the state and the expectation was that he'd perform somewhat better here than in other swing states, as is apparent. Secondly polls in Nevada in the past two cycles have underestimate the Dem figure by about 3 points.
Interesting Factiod – With Brownlee’s Gold, that's 13th 0f 19 Team GB athletes to retain their London titles. – And two more events yet to come in Taekwondo and Boxing
Talking of the 100, am I alone in thinking the Beeb have gone overboard a bit on Bolt? Its become a North Korea type dictator cult with them. He's become the Dear Sprinter.
I mean the guy's a complete phenomenon, don't get me wrong. But at times its embarrassing.
- People think there are zillions of asylum seekers coming into the UK. In fact there are very few (around 25,000 out of 600,000 immigrants).
- People think it is easy for non-EEA citizens to come here, and are amazed when they are told just how draconian the rules are.
- People don't think of students as immigrants, but they account for about a third of all immigrants; there is almost universal support in favour of continuing to take their fees!
Basically the only ways of reducing net immigration significantly are either to reduce EU worker migration, or to encourage more people to emigrate (I suppose trashing the economy would do both..). That's basically why I think the Brexit settlement must exclude freedom of movement; it was the strongest argument for leaving the EU, and the most important one for many Leave voters.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Volk's_Electric_Railway
Nope.
People aren't even that worried about numbers. They are worried about QUALITY. Politicians assumed voters would accept the murderer, rapist or terrorist along with the plumber, doctor or programmer. They assumed we would accept the rough with the smooth, because the overall effect is beneficial.
In June the electorate said that is not good enough. They want the rough filtered out. From now on, only the 'smooth' will do.
Edit: not _that_ Canadian banker...
However, I'm entirely sympathetic to the European view that the Conservative party has committed an act of pan-European economic vandalism simply because it was unable to stiffen its sinews and reform the UK health and welfare systems.
On topic, an interesting contribution for which, as always, many thanks. I'm not sure I wholly agree with the analysis of the EU Referendum.
For me, REMAIN's two mistakes were:
1) Failing completely to articulate a positive case for the EU or a positive case for remaining in the EU with the opt-outs and renegotiation.
2) Treating the whole argument in terms of numbers and economics. The British population were in effect reduced to the status of subservient economic drones whose sole purpose was to ensure we achieved positive GDP growth every quarter. "Don't Think. Consume and Spend" as it were.
I've probably drifted to the "harder" end of the LEAVE spectrum - I see the failures of the immigration system up close and personal every day and I blame the Single Market for much of it. I realise a lot of people want and need the Single Market but I believe it has consequences far beyond the economic which make it profoundly unsatisfactory.
As to the future, given we are already seeing people on here daily seeing the US election through the prism of the EU Referendum (there are millions of Trump supporters out there apparently who will come out on Polling Day apparently - yes, I know.)
I'd like to see an innovative combination of Dressage and Diving.
The media can go a bit overboard on coverage of individuals though, I felt a little sorry for Jess Emmis in London for the same reason but luckily she lived up to the massive expectations.
Who's staying up to watch Bolt's attempt on the 200m world record tonight? 02:30 UK time.